Boyfriend Killer Had PTSD, Leading to Shocking Murder: Psychologist

Añadido: 2026-05-11

[00:00:00]A N D R E A last name Elcon E L K O N.

[00:00:05]>> And you previously testified at the trial and were offered as an expert, but I'm going to just go ahead and re uh reoffer you. Okay.

[00:00:12]>> Yes.

[00:00:12]>> Uh what is your profession?

[00:00:14]>> I'm a clinical psychologist.

[00:00:16]>> And what is your educational background?

[00:00:19]>> I completed a bachelor of arts degree with a major in psychology. I have both a master's degree and a PhD in clinical psychology. Uh as part of a PhD, I had to complete both a P-DOAL and post-doal training in the field of forensic psychology specifically been in practice for 20 years now.

[00:00:42]>> And has your practice included forensic psychological evaluations?

[00:00:47]>> It has.

[00:00:48]>> How many forensic psychological evaluations have you conducted over the course of your career? I would approximate over 5,000.

[00:00:56]>> What does a forensic evaluation mean?

[00:00:59]And again, we've already gone over this some, but just briefly um orient the court about what that means.

[00:01:04]>> So, forensic psychological evaluation is whenever there is an issue of mental health that crosses with a legal question.

[00:01:14]>> And are you licensed in the state?

[00:01:16]>> Yes.

[00:01:19]Um, have you been tenered and accepted as an expert in Georgia state courts?

[00:01:23]>> Yes.

[00:01:24]>> And how many times approximately?

[00:01:27]>> In Georgia state courts, I would estimate over a hundred times.

[00:01:32]>> And have you been tened and accepted as an expert in forensic psychiatry or psychology in federal courts?

[00:01:37]>> I have.

[00:01:38]>> Um, you said you'd done a number of uh forensic psychological evaluations.

[00:01:46]Have those evaluations also um intertwined with PTSD evaluations?

[00:01:53]>> Yes.

[00:01:54]>> Um and have they also involved intimate partner violence?

[00:01:58]>> Yes.

[00:01:59]>> About how many evaluations that you have conducted have involved PTSD or intimate partner violence?

[00:02:06]>> Of the 5,000, I would estimate that between a half and a third involved PTSD. So somewhere around 2500 to I don't know what a third of 5,000 is.

[00:02:19]>> Yes.

[00:02:20]>> 2,0003 >> somewhere between uh yes, 1500 and 2500.

[00:02:26]>> Judge will offer Dr. Elcon again as an expert in forensic psychology and intimate partner violence.

[00:02:31]>> No objection.

[00:02:33]>> So ordered.

[00:02:35]>> Did you conduct a psychological assessment of Miss Miracle in this case?

[00:02:41]>> Yes.

[00:02:42]>> May I approach the witness judge? Yes.

[00:02:47]Showing you what's marked defendants one.

[00:02:50]Is this your evaluation that you conducted in this case?

[00:02:53]>> Yes, it is.

[00:02:54]>> Okay.

[00:02:56]Um in connection with defendants one, did you um well, did you interview the defendant?

[00:03:06]>> Yes, I did.

[00:03:07]>> And did you do what's called collateral investigations and interviews as well?

[00:03:11]>> Yes.

[00:03:12]>> Okay. Um, and since that initial interview, um, have you also looked at additional material, um, after after the sentence? I mean, after the the trial?

[00:03:22]>> Yes, I have.

[00:03:23]>> Okay. Um, let me approach the witness judge. Let me show you what's marked as two, defendants two, defendants three, defendants four.

[00:03:36]Yep.

[00:03:38]Two, three, four, and five, and six.

[00:04:11]showing you >> any objection.

[00:04:14]>> No objection.

[00:04:15]>> So two, three, four, five, and six. Just showing you >> the presented exhibits are admitted.

[00:04:55]Have you reviewed those?

[00:04:56]>> I have reviewed all of them. Okay.

[00:04:58]>> Um, what is defendants two?

[00:05:01]>> Defendant two is Birmingham Police Department arrest report.

[00:05:06]>> Okay. And that relates to an arrest for Terry Hagen, which we'll talk to talk about in just a second. What is defendants three?

[00:05:13]Defendants three is uh text messages between Miss Miracle and the deedent Mr. Baron and it includes photos.

[00:05:23]>> And what is defendants four?

[00:05:26]>> Defendant four is the transcript of an interview with Jessica Sers.

[00:05:31]>> And what is defendant five? Defendants five is family violence exparte protective order with Suzanne Miracle as the petitioner and James Terry Hagen as the respondent.

[00:05:43]>> And what is defendants six?

[00:05:46]>> Defendant six is a family violence domestic relations case filing information form. This reflects uh a protective order filed by Alina Sakalanski against James Baron. And judge, I think you already admitted two through six. I'm also going to tender one, which is Dr. Al's report.

[00:06:11]>> Any issues with one?

[00:06:13]>> No, your honor.

[00:06:14]>> All admitted.

[00:06:19]When you conducted the um the interview of Miss Miracle, um did you try to determine uh evidence of family of origin violence or trauma in her life?

[00:06:39]>> I did.

[00:06:39]>> Okay. Who did you speak to in addition to Miss Miracle um in connection with drawing a conclusion about that? I interviewed two of her sisters.

[00:06:50]>> And what did you learn about um Suzanne's early life in relationship to child child abuse specifically and and trauma in the home? I learned that for a brief time during early childhood, um, Miss Miracle had a stepfather. Um, and there was a lot of arguing and fighting, uh, drinking, uh, with the stepfather, perpetrating violence against her mother and against her brother that she witnessed.

[00:07:20]>> And this was corroborated by speaking with her two sisters as well.

[00:07:25]>> Well, one of her sisters, the other sister wasn't old enough to >> She was a small child. Correct.

[00:07:31]>> Got it. Um, so there's alcoholism in the home.

[00:07:34]>> Yes.

[00:07:36]>> Um, specifically, what did the stepfather do that Suzanne was either a victim of or witnessed?

[00:07:42]>> Suzanne reported that she witnessed uh her stepfather beating up her brother and kicking the rest of them, >> physically striking them by by foot. In other words, >> um, did she relate to you about what it was like in the home with the stepfather? Um, was the mother present?

[00:08:03]In other words, was the mother at home when all this was happening?

[00:08:07]>> The way that the family that I interviewed, Suzanne included, described the household was that mom was for most of her life a single mom and and working all of the time. And so the children essentially raised each other >> and that would include Suzanne raising her younger siblings. Correct.

[00:08:24]>> And being raised by her older siblings.

[00:08:26]>> That's correct.

[00:08:28]>> Um what is that what is that fact or um that history? What's the relationship of that to maybe somebody having trauma later in life?

[00:08:40]>> Well, I think the the important part from the childhood trauma is that it establishes um very little modeling about healthy partnerships. um that not only uh was Suzanne witnessing domestic violence between two partners, but also just didn't have a good sense of what it meant to be in a healthy relationship.

[00:09:02]>> Did you speak to Suzanne and also conduct collateral investigation related to Suzanne's relationship with various male partners throughout her life?

[00:09:13]>> I did. Um, can you tell us about um her first marriage to a gentleman named Pete?

[00:09:21]>> So, the way that Miss Miracle described her first marriage was um that he was controlling, emotionally abusive, um would call her a lot of bad names, uh put her down a lot, was very um not in favor of her working as hard as she did.

[00:09:42]And was the what was the ultimate cause of the end of that marriage according to your investigation?

[00:09:50]>> I believe it was infidelity, the end of the marriage.

[00:09:52]>> On whose part?

[00:09:54]>> On Pete's part? On her ex-husband's part.

[00:09:57]>> Um, I want to move forward, talk to you about her marriage to a gentleman named Kevin Haley.

[00:10:02]>> Yes.

[00:10:03]Um, what did you learn about her relationship in this marriage to Kevin Haley, which I think was 2011 to 2018.

[00:10:12]Is that right?

[00:10:14]>> Um, yes, that's correct.

[00:10:19]>> What did you learn about um their relationship?

[00:10:22]>> Well, this relationship, the way that Miss Miracle initially described it was that he just really wanted her for her money. um that her sisters reported that he was actually sexually coercive. Uh demeaning of her um wanted her to uh according to her sister um wanted Kevin wanted her to bring in another party into their relationship. Um was encouraging her maybe coercing her to have plastic surgery. Um >> yes. and the bringing another party into the relationship that was another female that he was trying to get involved in the relationship.

[00:11:02]>> Um, did Miss Miracle have plastic surgery in response to Mr. Haley's request on her breast specifically?

[00:11:10]>> I believe so.

[00:11:12]>> Um, did you learn anything about violence that was witnessed by any of the children uh by Mr. Haley towards Miss Miracle. Uh during that marriage?

[00:11:23]>> I did.

[00:11:24]>> And who was it that had witnessed the violence by Mr. Haley towards Miss Miracle?

[00:11:29]>> Her son Mills.

[00:11:31]>> Um what was the violence that Miss that Mills witnessed with respect to uh Kevin Haley and Miss Miracle?

[00:11:42]>> It's my understanding that Mills witnessed Miss Miracle and Mr. Haley fighting um that Mr. Haley shoved Miss Miracle and Mills tried to intervene and then um Mr. Haley shoved him.

[00:11:59]>> Moving forward to her relationship with Mr. Terry Hagen. Is that a name you're familiar with?

[00:12:06]>> Yes.

[00:12:07]>> Um may I press judge?

[00:12:12]>> I'm going to show you defendants exhibit two.

[00:12:18]This is the Birmingham Police report from September 4th of 2023.

[00:12:25]Um, is that part You already said you'd already reviewed that, but just to confirm that's something you're reviewing.

[00:12:30]>> Yes, it is.

[00:12:31]>> Can you um flip to the tabbed part of that and take a look at the highlighted portion and just read for us what occurred in that police report?

[00:12:40]>> Yes. A guest on the third floor had called the front desk and stated that they heard fighting coming from a room next door. The hotel security guard went upstairs, but the couple in room 301 refused to answer the door. 911 also received a call from another room at the hotel stating that he could hear fighting coming from the room next to him.

[00:13:08]>> And I think there's a further line about her injury. Yes, Miracle stated that Hagen began cursing and yelling at her.

[00:13:15]She stated that Hagen slapped her in the face and grabbed her left wrist when she attempted to defend herself. Officer observed bruising to Miracle's right wrist and a scratch mark to the center of her chin.

[00:13:31]>> And is it your understanding that Mr. Hagen was arrested and charged with that assault? I will I am >> um showing you defendants three.

[00:13:48]>> This is the um text message between Mr. Baron and Miss Miracle that you previously identified.

[00:13:55]>> Yes.

[00:13:56]>> And could you read the top of that text message, the message that Miss Miracle sent to Mr. Baron and the date?

[00:14:04]The date.

[00:14:09]>> Yes. Sorry. The date is 12025.

[00:14:15]The text is after he beat me up, he told me the same thing you do because you deserve it.

[00:14:22]>> Can I have that for me? I'm going to put this on the overhead.

[00:14:28]>> In this message, Miss Miracle included three photographs.

[00:14:33]Yes.

[00:14:34]>> Correct.

[00:14:44]>> One is of a wrist injury, one's of a a facial injury, and one is of a I guess the right uh shoulder.

[00:14:52]>> Yes, that's correct.

[00:14:54]>> And do these photographs on the next page, these are sort of the blowups of those uh of those photos. Is that right? That's correct.

[00:15:40]Did you um did you find any corroboration for um the violence that occurred between Mr. Hagen and Miss Miracle. Other than the things we're going to talk about in a minute, which is the tpo and the photos and things like that, any other witnesses, I guess, of uh corroboration of the violence.

[00:16:02]>> Yes. So, both of Miss Miracle's sisters are familiar with uh Mr. Hagen personally. Both referred to him as not a nice guy. Both referred to him as a known uh abuser. and specifically showing you defendants for >> Yes.

[00:16:20]>> the interview with Jess Sers.

[00:16:23]>> Yes.

[00:16:26]>> What in the interview with Jess Sellers?

[00:16:28]Well, first of all, can you What date was the interview of Jess Sers? I think it's at the top of the interview.

[00:16:32]>> April 1st, 2025.

[00:16:35]>> Okay. Um and Jess Sers was a friend of Miss Miracles.

[00:16:39]>> I believe that. Yes, a friend. And uh Miss Sellers referred to Miss Miracle as a second mom. Um, I believe that Miss Sellers worked for Miss Miracle.

[00:16:49]>> Can you tell us about some of the corroboration that you see in the interview with Miss Sellers about the violence that Miss Miracle uh suffered at the hands of Mr. Hagen?

[00:17:00]>> Yes, Miss Sers directly observed Miss Miracle coming in um coming into work and she was uh beaten black and blue, I believe, are Miss Cellers's words. Were there other things in Miss Cellar's interview that you found interesting in relationship to intimate partner violence?

[00:17:18]>> Yes.

[00:17:18]>> Can you tell us about those?

[00:17:20]>> Yes. So, Miss Sellers and Miss Miracle seemed to talk fairly frequently um during the time um shortly after she had broken up with Mr. Hagen and when she was together with Mr. Baron. Um, she it seems as though Miss Miracle confided in Miss Sers about the things that had gone on with Mr. Hagen as well as uh the way that Mr. Baron was treating her. Um, what I thought was noteworthy was that Miss Miracle was adamant that she didn't really want to talk about it or for anyone to know. Uh, which is very consistent with somebody who was being abused.

[00:17:59]Um, would it be unusual for a person who's in an abusive relationship to be telling everyone about the abuse? Would that be an unusual behavior?

[00:18:09]>> It would.

[00:18:10]>> What is the normal behavior for someone who's suffering violence at the hands of someone else?

[00:18:15]>> Typically, someone who's in a domestic domestically violent partnership doesn't tell because of the shame associated with it.

[00:18:24]Um, Miss Sers had actually, I think you said, witnessed and seen the actual injuries on Miss Miracle that were visited upon her by Mr. Hagen. Is that right?

[00:18:34]>> That's correct.

[00:18:35]>> I'm going to show you defendants exhibit five, which you previously identified as the temporary protective order that Miss Miracle sought and was granted um against Mr. Hagen.

[00:18:56]Can you take a look at the highlighted portion and um tell us what we see there? And if you want to read it, you can.

[00:19:04]>> Sure. Respondent pushed petitioner against the wall and punched her multiple times in the stomach.

[00:19:12]Respondent broke her hearing aids by slamming her head in his refrigerator multiple times. Respondent knocked her down and drugg her across the floor causing great bruising. Respondent also put his hands on her throat, but she did not lose consciousness. Respondent further slammed her foot in the door.

[00:19:33]>> And that was one incident. That's the >> that I believe was the August 2024 incident.

[00:19:40]>> Okay. So there there are sort of two I guess incidents relating to Mr. Hagen.

[00:19:46]one is from September 2023 which we talked about. That's the Birmingham one.

[00:19:49]Is that right?

[00:19:50]>> Yes.

[00:19:50]>> Okay. And then there was an August 2024 which resulted in the seeking of this TPO.

[00:19:56]>> That's correct.

[00:19:57]>> Um the I think that Can you talk about the lower part on the TPO? This the other incident. I think they're relating back maybe to the other one.

[00:20:08]>> Yes. So the second or this it was actually the first incident chronologically Labor Day weekend 2023 state of Alabama petitioner and respondent were in a hotel room when he became abusive. Concerned patrons called the police as he was verbally and physically assaulting petitioner.

[00:20:29]Respondent grabbed her by her hair, threw her down, strangled her and kicked her. He was arrested by police for domestic violence charges. petitioner had visible bruises when law enforcement arrived.

[00:20:46]>> I want to show you just some of the attachments to that. Well, before I do that, at the at the back of the temporary protective order, do you see what this material is here that's tabbed?

[00:21:05]>> I do. And what is that?

[00:21:07]>> That appears to be a hospital record >> where Miss Miracle sought medical treatment.

[00:21:12]>> Yes. For assault, closed head injury, and muscularkeeletal pain.

[00:21:18]>> And does it relate the date that she sought the medical treatment in that record?

[00:21:22]>> Yes, that's 87 2024.

[00:21:26]>> And I think maybe it says related to an assault that took place at a certain date.

[00:21:31]>> Correct. Um patient presents to the emergency department uh states that she was assaulted by a partner two days ago.

[00:21:40]Thank you.

[00:21:57]Would you agree there's probably about 30 photos attached to this?

[00:22:12]>> Yes, I would.

[00:22:14]>> And some of these we've seen already, but Did Miss Marle uh state in one of the materials about having a wrist stomped on by Mr. Hagen? You remember that?

[00:22:52]>> Yes.

[00:23:19]Are the injuries in defendants exhibit 5 consistent with intimate partner violence?

[00:23:25]>> Yes.

[00:23:26]Is the um seeking of the TPO also something that's consistent with intimate partner violence?

[00:23:33]>> Yes.

[00:23:47]>> And defendants six which was previously tender the tpo that was sought by Miss Soo Leanski. Yes.

[00:23:56]>> Um what's the um what is the connection if any to intimate partner violence? The fact that Mr. Baron previously had a tpo sought against him.

[00:24:07]>> Well, I think this offers evidence that he was uh scary and threatening not just to Miss Miracle, but that he had a history of behaving in that manner. Do um do people who have committed intimate partner violence typically do that again?

[00:24:25]>> Yes.

[00:24:26]>> Is it is it likely that a person who's committed interim partner violence is going to just stop doing that sort of thing later on in their life?

[00:24:34]>> It's highly unlikely. To the contrary, typically the violence escalates over time.

[00:24:44]talk to me about the relationship. Um well, let me let me circle back and talk about um the PTSD diagnosis that you previously offered. Okay.

[00:24:54]>> Yes.

[00:24:55]>> Um that's already in the record and the court's already heard uh evidence about that. But just to reorient us, um did you do an examination of Miss Miracle to determine if she suffered from post-traumatic stress disorder?

[00:25:08]>> I did. And what was your conclusion?

[00:25:11]>> My conclusion was that Miss Miracle does suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder, which I characterized as chronic.

[00:25:19]>> Chronic and I think you said severe as well.

[00:25:21]>> And severe. Correct.

[00:25:22]>> What's the difference between chronic, severe, and I guess what are the other types of diagnoses you can make on a PTSD examination?

[00:25:32]>> So the chronicity has to do with the length of time that the symptoms have persisted. So if symptoms persist more than a six-month period, the condition is considered chronic. The severity has to do uh with two things really. The amount of distress that the symptoms cause the person who is experiencing them and the extent to which those symptoms disrupt functioning.

[00:25:58]>> Okay. Um are there such things as mild cases of PTSD?

[00:26:02]>> There are.

[00:26:03]>> Are there such cases of moderate post-traumatic stress disorder?

[00:26:06]>> That's correct. Okay. And Miss Miracles is severe.

[00:26:10]>> That's correct.

[00:26:11]>> Um, what is the relationship between the history, Miss Miracles history that we've outlined here and a post-traumatic stress stressor like the one uh related to the March 7th, March 8th, 2025 event?

[00:26:30]Well, what we see over the course of Miss Miracle's life is um a repetitive pattern of getting into relationships with coercive and controlling men. And the extent to which they coersse and control appears to escalate over time to the point at which it becomes violent.

[00:26:51]And the more that Miss Miracle was in these coercive, controlling, and ultimately abusive relationships, the more that, as I've testified previously, the more that uh a person's fightorflight mechanism stays switched on. And it's once that switch is permanently on uh that someone develops PTSD. Is someone more likely to develop PTSD if they've suffered traumatic experiences throughout their life?

[00:27:22]>> That's correct.

[00:27:23]>> Does the literature and your profession support that conclusion?

[00:27:27]>> It does.

[00:27:28]>> Um, in other words, if there are two if there are two persons and and the same event happens to those same people to those two different people. Yes.

[00:27:38]>> Okay. One of them has a history of abuse and the other one does not. What does the literature and the science tell you about the likelihood of developing post-traumatic stress disorder?

[00:27:47]>> The person who has experienced the lifetime of trauma, that person is more likely to develop PTSD than someone who hasn't.

[00:27:56]>> Okay. Um, talk to me about um vulnerability. I think you have some, but talk to me about someone's vulnerability, specifically Suzanne's, in relation to um intimate partner violence with the history that she has.

[00:28:19]>> Um, Miss Miracle was extremely vulnerable to getting into relationships with with controlling, coercive, and abusive men. She was much more vulnerable to getting into uh a relationship in which intimate partner violence was present.

[00:28:34]And I already asked you this again, but I'm going to ask you again. Was was Suzanne, in your opinion, subjected to family violence, ordaining violence, and child abuse?

[00:28:42]>> Yes.

[00:28:43]>> Um, you you realize that the court or I'm sorry, the jury uh convicted her of a reckless act of firing a gun.

[00:28:53]>> I do.

[00:28:54]>> Um, I want to talk specifically about reckless behavior.

[00:28:58]>> Yes.

[00:28:59]>> In relationship to someone with this background of childhood trauma, family violence, and data. Yes. Okay.

[00:29:08]>> Um what is the relationship with that trauma toward specifically reckless behavior?

[00:29:15]>> Sure. So when somebody, again, I'm I'm going back to this idea of a fight orflight switch kind of permanently switched on, it results in a symptom that we call hypervigilance, which means that someone is just more likely to react, more likely that um if they sense danger, it's a quicker response um and a more reckless response. And so as part of that hypervigilance, reckless behavior is actually symptomatic um of PTSD. So it's all kind of encapsulated in that hypervigilance symptom.

[00:29:52]>> And specifically with respect to the DSM5, I guess we're on now, right?

[00:29:57]>> Yes. 5TR.

[00:29:58]>> 5TR. Okay. With respect to the DSM, what does the DSM say about reckless behavior and persons who have PTSD?

[00:30:08]So, as listed in the DSM5, um, irritable behavior and angry outbursts expressed as verbal or physical aggression toward people or objects.

[00:30:20]>> And does it endorse that reckless behavior is something that a person will be more likely to uh engage in if they have PTSD and a history of violence?

[00:30:30]>> Yes.

[00:30:32]Um, I want to talk to you about your conclusion uh with respect to whether or not this history of violence, the history of violence that you saw involving the child abuse, the family violence, and the dating violence in addition with the PTSD. Okay.

[00:30:50]>> Yes. specifically whether all of those things were or can be said to be a significant contributing factor to the offense here which would be a reckless offense.

[00:31:02]>> They absolutely can.

[00:31:04]>> Now significant I want to talk about what significant contributing factor means.

[00:31:10]>> Um does significant contributing factor from a psychological perspective does it mean cause?

[00:31:17]>> No.

[00:31:18]Um, does it mean that it rises to the level of justifying um the defendants's conduct under the law?

[00:31:28]>> It does not.

[00:31:30]>> Does it mean the exclusive or even the overriding factor?

[00:31:36]>> It does not.

[00:31:38]Um, does it instead mean something sufficiently significant to have likely helped bring about the defendant's behavior?

[00:31:48]>> Yes.

[00:31:48]>> And are you of the conclusion that this history uh and her past trauma is sufficiently significant to have likely helped bring about the defendant's criminal behavior?

[00:32:00]>> It is.

[00:32:04]>> I want to talk to you just about two more things before I let you go. Okay.

[00:32:07]>> Um, did you do an assessment related to Miss Miracle, a psychological assessment to test for things like future dangerousness?

[00:32:18]>> I did.

[00:32:19]>> Can you tell the court what you did and what your conclusions were?

[00:32:22]>> Yes. So, I completed a test called the psychopathy checklist. This is what we call a semistructured clinical interview. So what that means is that there are kind of guideline questions but I can adjust a little bit um as well as so this test includes the semistructured interview plus a review of collateral data and what this uh test does is it scores someone. It assesses the extent to which um a person manifests personality traits consistent with psychopathy.

[00:33:00]And what we know is that there's a strong correlation between high levels of psychopathy and high levels of violence. In Miss Miracle's case, she scored a five out of 20, which is consistent with very low levels of psychopathic personality traits and therefore a very low risk of future violence.

[00:33:23]>> As far as then future dangerousness from a psychological perspective, yes, >> how does she score?

[00:33:30]>> She I I do not opine based on testing. I do not opine her to be a risk of instigating future violence.

[00:33:39]>> Is she a candidate for rehabilitation specifically related obviously to PTSD and things like that?

[00:33:46]>> I think Miss Miracle would deeply benefit from therapy for PTSD.

[00:33:54]>> Thank you.

[00:34:05]Hi Dr. Elen. Good morning.

[00:34:09]Um, as far as the work that you did to be able to get to the opinion you stated about this defendant. I want to go through a couple things. Okay.

[00:34:27]Did you reach out to um Alina?

[00:34:31]Um I c so Leansski and interview her as part of your work on this case.

[00:34:37]>> I did not.

[00:34:39]>> You did not find it would be important to interview somebody who had taken out a TPO or attempted to take out a TPO against Mr. Baron in this case.

[00:34:46]>> I thought the TPO and the information contained in the TPO was sufficient. And in fact, in the TPO, Miss Soleansky states that she took out a petition to get a tpo because Mr. Baron uh burned yard waste very close to the house while he was intoxicated.

[00:35:07]Correct.

[00:35:08]>> Correct.

[00:35:10]>> And that that put her in fear because at some point, maybe a year ago, he had said that he would burn the house down.

[00:35:18]>> Correct. in that the night of the incident that she attempted to take out a tpo against the uh behavior that he was exhibiting was burning yard waste in his the front yard of his own home.

[00:35:32]Correct.

[00:35:33]>> Yes.

[00:35:34]>> And that PTO was never that PTO was or the TPO, I'm sorry, was dismissed by Alina. Correct.

[00:35:41]>> Yes.

[00:35:42]>> And so what you're reading is simply just the petition for her to get that TPO. Correct. I'm reading the petition for her to get the TPO. I I also want to add that as part of that TPO, um the the petitioner talked about physically abusing the petitioner's dog in front of the petitioner and the petitioner's daughter. And you didn't think it would be important to speak with Alina to figure out more about what that abuse may have entailed?

[00:36:12]>> I did not.

[00:36:13]>> And that TPO was never granted because it was dismissed by Alina. Correct.

[00:36:17]That's correct.

[00:36:18]>> And you didn't think it would be important to talk with Alina about why it was that she dismissed that TPO before having it granted?

[00:36:25]>> I did not talk to Aaliyah.

[00:36:27]>> And uh did you happen to read um an interview summary of an individual, Mr. Coleman, who interviewed Alina?

[00:36:36]>> Could you back up, slow down, >> and just ask me that again?

[00:36:40]>> Sure. Did you happen to read an interview summary of an interview that was conducted with the Mr. Coleman and Alina?

[00:36:47]>> No.

[00:36:48]>> So, defense did not provide you with a transcript of a interview that was done with Alina?

[00:36:53]>> I don't believe so.

[00:36:55]>> Where Alina stated that Mr. Baron had never been physically violent to her.

[00:36:58]You weren't aware of that?

[00:37:00]>> No.

[00:37:05]>> I want to talk to you a little bit about your report.

[00:37:15]On page 12 of your report, do you have your report in front of you?

[00:37:18]>> I do.

[00:37:18]>> Okay. On page 12 of your report, um you um noted in there that Miss Miracle denied that Kevin Haley was ever physically abusive to her. Correct.

[00:37:34]>> That's correct.

[00:37:35]>> But your testimony today was that Mr. Haley was physically abusive to her.

[00:37:39]Well, I learned new information since the writing of this report, >> but Miss Miracle told you that he was never abusive to her. Correct.

[00:37:47]>> That's correct.

[00:37:49]>> And on page 13 of your report, um you are talking about your interviews that you conducted with uh the defendant's sisters, correct?

[00:38:00]>> Yes.

[00:38:00]>> One of which being Leslie, I don't know, Flor Floroi. I'm I'm probably mispronouncing that, but Leslie.

[00:38:08]Yes.

[00:38:08]>> Yes. Um and Leslie uh told you about a time where this defendant strangled her.

[00:38:14]Correct.

[00:38:15]>> Yes.

[00:38:16]>> Um and that basically they were dividing up their mother's jewelry and Suzanne came after me and put her hands around my throat.

[00:38:25]Correct.

[00:38:26]>> Yes.

[00:38:26]>> And that Leslie, the defendant's sister, said you never knew what was going to set her off. Correct.

[00:38:31]>> Yes. And because and I would also add that Miss Florenoi was clear that in her opinion uh she personally was the target of the violence.

[00:38:40]>> Sure. Because she was the one strangled.

[00:38:42]Correct.

[00:38:43]>> Because she thought that of Miss Miracle like Miss Miracle really only directed violence at her younger sister.

[00:38:52]>> Okay. And because of that they didn't speak for eight years. Correct.

[00:38:56]>> I don't think it was because of that specific thing.

[00:39:01]So in your report you wrote she stated that she and her sister did not speak for all for about eight years following an incident shortly after their mother passed and then you go into details about that incident. Correct.

[00:39:12]>> Yes.

[00:39:13]>> So safe to say based off your report it's likely that they did not speak for 8 years because of the incident where the defendant strangled her. Correct.

[00:39:20]>> Correct.

[00:39:23]And um I think we talked about this at trial, but you did not attempt to gain any sort of psychological records by the defendant um at all. Correct.

[00:39:35]>> I attempted to, but I didn't get any.

[00:39:37]>> Didn't get any.

[00:39:38]>> That's correct.

[00:39:38]>> So, for example, any sort of counseling or psychological records back when she was dating Mr. Haley. Correct.

[00:39:45]>> Correct.

[00:39:45]>> And same thing when she was dating Mr. Hagen. Correct.

[00:39:49]>> That is correct. And we can't you mentioned first husbage um and that uh Miss Miracle told you that her first husband was controlling and emotionally abusive. I think you said >> yes.

[00:40:04]>> And he's unavailable for interview because he's deceased. Correct.

[00:40:07]>> That's correct.

[00:40:09]>> And um Miss Miracle also has another husband that's also deceased. Correct.

[00:40:14]>> Yes.

[00:40:15]>> And then you were or there is a living husband which is Kevin Haley. Correct.

[00:40:20]>> Yes.

[00:40:21]>> And um Miss Miracle told you that Mr. Haley hadn't been physically abusive to her, but then you stated you found out new information after your interview with the defendant >> after trial.

[00:40:32]>> After trial. Okay. So, didn't even all of a sudden now after trial, Mr. Haley was physically abusive to the defendant?

[00:40:40]>> I found out that information after trial.

[00:40:43]>> Okay.

[00:40:46]Did you ever attempt to reach out to Mr. Haley? I did not >> didn't think it would be important to hear his side of uh what happened between him and the defendant when they were married.

[00:40:56]>> I didn't reach out to Mr. Haley.

[00:40:57]>> So, you're only taking the defendant and her family's word for everything that you've testified to today. Correct.

[00:41:02]>> That's correct.

[00:41:04]>> How about Mr. Hagen? You ever attempt to reach out to him?

[00:41:07]>> No.

[00:41:08]>> How about anyone in Mr. Hagen's family?

[00:41:10]You ever attempt to reach out to anybody?

[00:41:14]>> No. And it seems pretty clear that the people in the defendant's family were aware of uh the defendant making allegations of physical abuse against Mr. Hagen. Correct.

[00:41:26]>> That's correct.

[00:41:26]>> Because she had told all of them uh about Mr. Hagen being physically abusive.

[00:41:31]>> After the fact. Yes.

[00:41:33]>> After the fact. And um it's your understanding that uh the defendant had never told anyone about any physical abuse with Mr. Baron. Correct.

[00:41:41]>> That's correct.

[00:41:44]Although I take that back. It wasn't I I don't think it was exactly physical abuse, but she had certainly relayed incidents where he had behaved abusively by like throwing her stuff out the window.

[00:41:57]>> Okay. No physical violence though.

[00:41:59]>> That's correct. And I want to talk about PTSD.

[00:42:04]So, well, first firstly, um you talked with uh Mr. Willis about significant contributing factor. Um, and he asked you that doesn't mean cause and you said no that doesn't mean cause. Correct.

[00:42:15]>> Correct.

[00:42:16]>> Did you do any legal research to come to that conclusion?

[00:42:19]>> No.

[00:42:19]>> Read any case law about what it means to be a significant contributing factor.

[00:42:25]>> So, this is a really sticky situation because the way that the law is written is very similar, if not exactly alike, how a psychologist would report. So in a in a psychology in a psychological report, we would never use words like cause. I would use words like substantially contributed. It happens that the way that the law is written is very similar.

[00:42:51]>> Sure. So psychology and law are two totally different things.

[00:42:56]>> That's correct.

[00:42:57]>> And so legally speaking, you haven't done any legal research as far as what it means to be a significant contributing factor. Correct.

[00:43:03]>> That's correct. And at trial, and forgive me because I know you called it something and I just can't remember what you called it, but with PTSD, there's like uh I think it was like an index event or is that what it's called?

[00:43:19]>> Yes.

[00:43:20]>> And um is it an index event? Am I is that correct?

[00:43:23]>> It is.

[00:43:24]>> Okay. um where basically you look for the index event which is the the the event that stands out in that individual's mind the most that may contribute the most to their PTSD symptoms. Correct.

[00:43:36]>> That's correct.

[00:43:37]>> And uh your determination was that the index event in this case was the night where Mr. Baron put the gun where Miss Merkel said he put the gun in her mouth.

[00:43:47]Correct.

[00:43:47]>> That's correct.

[00:43:48]>> Which was the night of the murder.

[00:43:50]>> That's correct. And so after all your evaluation, the index event, the most traumatic event to Miss Miracle was the night of the murder. Correct.

[00:43:57]>> That's correct.

[00:43:58]>> The index event was not abuse that she alleged occurred by her uh stepfather.

[00:44:04]Correct.

[00:44:05]>> That's correct.

[00:44:06]>> And the index event was not abuse that she alleged occurred by Mr. Hagen.

[00:44:10]Correct.

[00:44:11]>> That's correct.

[00:44:12]>> It was um what she said happened the night of the murder, which was Mr. Bear putting a gun in her mouth.

[00:44:18]>> That's correct. And at trial, we also talked about uh the jail counseling records. You had uh reviewed those as well, correct?

[00:44:26]>> Yes.

[00:44:27]>> And um a lot of those records there was indication of the defendant having trouble adjusting to life in jail.

[00:44:36]Correct.

[00:44:36]>> Yes.

[00:44:37]>> And she was disclosing to the jail psychologist that a lot of her anxiety was stemming from um her fears about ever being able to get out of jail.

[00:44:48]Correct. Yes.

[00:44:49]>> And she was having difficulty sleeping in the jail due to fears of basically being in jail. Correct.

[00:44:58]>> Partially. Not entirely.

[00:45:00]>> Sure. Yeah. Not entirely, but there was a repeated pattern in those psych psychology records of Miss Miracle exhibiting anxiety based off of her current living situation in jail.

[00:45:11]Correct.

[00:45:11]>> Yes.

[00:45:15]>> I don't have any other questions. Thank you. follow. Thank you.

[00:45:20]>> Thank you for your testimony.

[00:45:31]>> That's it.

[00:45:32]>> Oh, wait. Thank you.