This analysis masterfully exposes the friction between a desperate fabrication and the cold reality of forensic evidence. It is a clinical look at how the absence of physical marks can speak louder than any rehearsed testimony.
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Killer Husband Has An AMAZING Story To TellAdded:
Hello, brother. How are you?
I'm Detective Jose Gardin of the United Sheriff's Office. Detective Demarcus Dixon. Okay.
Can you uh can you prove your full name and your last name and your date of birth, please?
Kevin Franklin Hughes.
Okay.
>> 8984 984.
>> YES, SIR.
>> OKAY.
>> All right, Kevin. Due to the circumstances and the reason we're here.
All right. You have rights. So, I'm going to read you your rights. Okay.
>> Okay. And then uh we'll go from there.
You have the right to remain silent.
Anything you say may be used as evidence against you in court. You have the right to call or obtain an attorney at this time and have one present now or any time during questioning. If you cannot afford to hire an attorney, the court will appoint one for you without cost.
If you decide to answer questions now, you have the right to stop answering them at any time during questioning. Do you understand these rights? And having these rights in mind, do you wish to talk to us at this time?
>> I just want to cooperate.
Okay.
>> Should I add a lawyer?
>> You have your rights. Okay. Um, we can revise it or we can reread them to you.
It's It's completely up to you, sir.
>> I understand. You can't answer that.
>> Yes, sir.
>> I I don't think I see a problem with any of that.
>> Okay. Do you consent? Do you you want to talk to us? Okay. Um, if you don't mind, all I need here is your signature.
right here in the sir. That is just basically saying that you want to speak to us and you have your rights in mind.
Any questions on your rights?
>> Yes, sir.
Just want to go home and get this over with.
>> Thank you, sir. Thank you.
>> I wasn't writing fast enough. Could you repeat your full name and date of birth again for >> Kevin Franklin Hughes and date of birth?
>> August 9th, 1984.
>> Okay.
>> All right. Kevin, tell me a little bit about yourself before we go into any of that stuff.
>> Where do you want me to start?
>> Wherever you like.
No, I do. Um, where were you born?
>> Utah.
Uh, what city?
>> Salt Lake City.
>> Salt Lake City.
>> What do you like to do for fun, Kevin?
>> Get out into nature and enjoy some peace and quiet.
>> Yeah, I could see that. That's uh pretty interesting, you know, peaceful.
>> Why we live on the preserve? Yeah. What do you do for a living, huh?
>> Yeah. I'm father.
>> Yeah.
>> Tell me about yourself. And the reason I'm asking is because we've never obviously met. We've never talked to each other. We've never seen each other.
So, I'm I'm trying to get a basis of who Kevin is.
I'm sorry. This seems more difficult than it should be.
>> I'm a dad.
>> Yeah.
>> And a husband. I was a husband.
Tell me about being a dad.
I love being a dad.
I've been looking forward to this for a long time and I think I'm a good dad. I try really hard to be.
>> Yeah.
You've been looking forward to what? For a long time.
>> Being a dad.
>> Yeah.
>> Having a family.
>> Yes, sir.
>> How many children do you have?
>> One.
>> Just one. Okay. And who is that?
>> Benson.
>> Benson.
Okay.
Tell me a little bit about Benson.
just turned four.
That's really smart. Yeah, that's awesome.
Besides going out to uh out in nature, what else do you like to do?
>> That's really all the time I have for fun now. I'm never alone really when I do it.
>> Who's with you?
>> Usually Ben. Yeah. Did he enjoy it?
>> Yeah. Sometimes, Jen.
>> Usually just that.
>> Yeah.
Okay.
All right, Kevin. Well, now that I got a a basic, you know, I'm sure there's plenty other interesting things and I know that this is a weird circumference for me to ask you, you know, about your personal life or whatnot, but I just wanted to know who Kevin was and who I was talking to.
Yeah.
>> Okay. Any questions for me?
>> Is he okay?
Anything or is he >> fine?
Okay.
Um I don't know if you >> of course.
>> Um but he's fine.
Okay.
So, I'm going to ask you now if you can recall what happened this morning and if you could tell us what happened.
Now, at any point in time, if you need to take a quick break, we can. All right? If you need a moment, just tell me you need a moment.
Do you mind if I start?
How'd your morning start this morning?
Jen Jen came to me in bed like she always does.
For a long time, it's been just to let me know that she was leaving.
If Ben was still asleep, then I would try and get some sleep.
Most of my sleep happens right around that time. I have a hard time sleeping.
>> Why is that?
>> It's my back.
>> Yeah.
What's going on with your back?
I've injured it multiple times and I had a motorcycle accident right after Jen and I met.
>> Oh yeah.
>> I couldn't walk for a couple of months and being stuck in my back aggravated all of my problems.
And I was an idiot. to go to a chiropractor like people told me to.
>> So got pretty bad.
It's getting a lot better now.
Nice.
So Jen come to you in the morning. Do you guys sleep together?
>> No. Tell me about that. Tell me about your uh living arrangements.
Jim stopped sleeping in the bedroom with me.
How long ago?
Wasn't long after we moved into that house.
Was that a personal choice or was that something had to do with that?
We haven't had a very stable relationship since she got pregnant.
The moment she gave birth, she started to think I was evil and hate me.
We moved. I was up in Cold Head.
We were there for two and a half years.
We came back.
We're in the old house for a few months.
We still slept together in the same bed.
All three of us did.
Sometime after we got into the new house, we had a conversation about how certain parts of our relationship just weren't there and hadn't been there for a long time.
We were obviously trying to make the rest of them work.
It's not like we could just walk away from the situation.
>> Mhm.
>> And that night she stayed the night with them. It was the first night that he stayed the night to his room by himself.
Not by himself with her.
>> Mhm.
>> It was supposed to be by himself and she's been sleeping in there ever since.
>> In Ben's room.
>> She has a bed in the other room, but she just keeps her stuff in there.
>> Yeah.
Okay. So, back to this morning and then in the morning and check what happened after that.
Lately, I've been making her breakfast and lunch again. I hadn't been doing that for a long time because I tried to avoid her in the mornings cuz that was the worst time to possibly be around her.
>> Why is that?
She can have a bad day any day or a bad time anytime, but the mornings are just I don't know why she's just really angry.
But we had another conversation recently.
So, we've been talking about divorce and separation on and off for years and it came around to that again.
So, for maybe four or five days, the plan was that we were going to be separated.
>> Mhm.
And we had a conversation about what's best for Ben it's best for him to have both his parents together unless the situation in the household is so bad that it's bad for him and then it's best for us to separate.
So she agreed and I agreed that we were just trying to do everything differently.
We actually were working on a relationship agreement that we were going to put on paper. Some of it is on paper somewhere.
And part of the new situation was that I would start getting up with her in the morning and making her breakfast and lunch again, but only if she was nice and came home and spent time with the family.
So, she said she would try to limit work to 40 hours a week and she would try and let go of all of her negative emotions and try and check herself whenever she started to go on the train. That's how I think of it. It's like her emotions just take off with her.
>> Yeah.
And it worked for So she was upset this morning because there was no breakfast. in the morning?
No. Why was she upset this morning?
>> She didn't act upset this morning.
>> No, >> she acted proudly this morning.
>> Okay.
So, she came to the bedroom. She checked on you and Ben to see if he was asleep.
>> Ben was in his room.
>> Ben was in his room >> where she had come from.
>> Okay. So, Ben was asleep.
So, she comes and checks on you. You're awake or are you asleep?
I'm usually awake when she comes in there and if I'm not, I wake up when she moves the door.
>> Okay.
>> Is the door open or closed when you go to bed?
>> I close it most of the way.
>> Yeah.
>> And I usually put some kind of a box or something there so that I can hear it open.
>> Yeah.
What's the reason for that?
>> Probably about six or seven times I was afraid to go to sleep.
>> Yeah.
>> And I wanted to know if she was coming into the room when I was asleep.
>> Okay.
>> Tell me about this fear. Why were you Why were you afraid to sleep?
>> Trying to think of a good way to put this. My wife is [ __ ] crazy sometimes.
She had two very difficult pregnancies. We lost the first one.
I didn't realize what was going on until she got pregnant the first time.
And I'd been around one pregnant woman before and her hormones were just all over the place.
And I thought that that's what was going on, that she was just having a hard time adjusting, which makes perfect sense.
After we lost that baby, she was never the same again.
She got a little better and a little better and a little better. Then when she got pregnant the second time, it was a lot worse.
And the fact that we moved up to Goldhead away from my family and now we're friends seemed like it made it worse.
And then a month before she was due, the doctor realized she had pre-clampsia and we had to go immediately to the hospital so that they could induce so that she wouldn't die.
But when they gave her the drugs to induce, something was wrong. They realized that the cord was bunched up in front of Ben and he couldn't come out. So then they were both maybe going to die. So they did a C-section.
and it worked and seemed like it was going to be okay for I don't know how long we were in there.
I wasn't really sleeping, few days I think. And then they said that they thought Ben had an infection and he had to go to NICU.
And it was just one thing after another after another after another. And then they couldn't figure out what was wrong with them. And he had to stay even after we left the hospital.
And she wasn't the only one. We were both [ __ ] up from that.
That was the most difficult thing we'd ever been through.
So I just tried to take care of her in the hospital and visit them. Come back and take care of her in the hospital and visit them.
But I could tell before we ever got home in the hospital room something was horribly, horribly wrong.
She barely spoke to me when I tried to do things for her.
It's like it made her mad.
By the time I got home, I could feel the hatred every single time she laid eyes on me or didn't look at me.
And I thought, of course, you know, how could she not be messed up by all this, but it never got better and it got worse. She didn't want to be around the baby.
I had to like talk her into breastfeeding him.
She would have these episodes where she would just be so full of rage, but it she couldn't think properly.
Just normal I'm talking about basic logic was just beyond her capabilities.
Not all the time, but sometimes it was really, really disturbing.
And she was always angry at me.
And it didn't matter what had happened, what was happening, what I did or said.
It was always she just hated me.
And Ben was collicky.
So he was screaming his head off for the first four months. It was really horrible. It was it was deeply traumatic for both of us.
But she just could not stand to hear him cry.
And sometime Oh my god.
Do you want this whole long story? Cuz it's going to be a long story.
My parents came and helped us.
>> Yeah.
I don't know for how long. They came a couple of times.
And then her parents came down and you know I hoped that it would be comforting for Jen to have her parents there and it was a little bit but they didn't help.
They didn't really help with anything.
It just made everything more difficult.
and Joyce mom finally offered to take a shift so that I could get some sleep which I really really needed.
you know, I just I didn't have any recourse at all but to say thank you and make sure she understood all the rules because he was premature and he was had been sick. We had to give him medicine every hour.
and she she raised all her kids in the time like you didn't have car seats and you didn't really do any of the [ __ ] that you do today. So I really had to hammer it through to her that you can't lay him in a certain position cuz the doctors really hammered it into me that he will die if you do that.
>> He will stop breathing.
>> So I went to bed not go to sleep for a while fell asleep had a nightmare. woke up, went in there and she was on one side of the room doing a cross word puzzle or something some puzzle book was on the opposite side of the room. Her back was to him and he was caught up in exactly the position that he could not have been put in because he would stop breathing. So I just picked him up, told her to go to bed, and we didn't talk about it until the next day. But before we could talk about it, when we woke up and when I told her what happened, she just couldn't hear anything that I said. Just like the only thing she could hear was how I didn't like her mom or didn't trust her mom. And I was it was like I was doing it on purpose.
and it was my fault.
And she ran out through the backyard.
I arms at this point. He was just so tiny.
But I went after her. I just wrapped him up the best I could. And I followed her out there and she went down the trail that runs past that house.
And when I caught up to her, she was throwing herself against a tree again and again and again.
So I went to her and I talked to her and I tried to calm her down.
And after a while, I got her to come back to the house.
She went back to bed and I talked to Joyce about what happened. I told her, "Listen, you absolutely can't do this, but I absolutely have to sleep. I have to know that you're going to do this cuz I have to sleep."
She said, "Okay.
So I let her watch him again and the exact same thing happened, but this time she was asleep instead of doing a puzzle book and he was propped up in the exact same position.
So I had no more chances for her after that.
And Jen hated me that much more for she just could not hear anything I had to say about it.
I was not going to put him in that situation.
And if she couldn't think properly about what had happened, then I would have to be the one who said no. And her father never helped with kids. He didn't know how to help kids.
He never helped with any of his kids.
Never changed a single diaper. So that was it. So, I just slept for a couple hours during the day when Jen was up and I stayed up all night and I watched Ben and I watched him for the rest of the day when she wasn't breastfeeding him.
She never forgave me. She never forgave me for it.
And her little rage episodes would get worse and worse and she would do really scary [ __ ] Like one time we were in the kitchen, she grabbed a knife and started stabbing a bowl of tomatoes.
One time she was sitting in her chair, she grabbed a fork and stabbed all around her face in the air. She did the same thing with a butter knife.
Those are just the most memorable. It was I never knew what to expect. She went back to work as soon as she possibly could.
She just came home in the middle of the day to breastfeed.
And she stopped doing that after a month or two. She just didn't want to be home. She didn't want to be around the baby. She didn't want to be around me.
And she would she would say she was working late and go and drink and hang out. I didn't realize what was happening until right before I moved. One of the volunteers who was hanging out accidentally told me, well, we started seeing a therapist while we were up there. So, I told her, "You're not okay. We're not okay. We need to figure this out. This cannot go on." So, we went together to meet the therapist that I guess contracted with the doctor that we used.
And after we met her together and talked about the situation, Jen went by herself after that, cuz she was supposed to be working through whatever it was that she had to work through.
And I I know some of it, but I know there's a lot that I don't know about she never would tell me about.
But she wasn't working through her stuff with the therapist. I would go every now and then and we would have like a couple session and after two of those the counselor said I'm not going to see anyone by themselves anymore because just going in there and complaining about me.
That's what she did with all those sessions. So then we went together and and did it marriage counseling style.
I don't know how long we saw her.
>> What was this counselor's name? She called herself River, but I think her first name was Angelina or something like that.
>> And where was she?
>> Marine. And I think her last name was Marino.
>> Where did these sessions take place?
>> The practice is called Birth and Beyond.
What city and state is it? It's >> It's not far outside of Keystone. I can't think of the name of the I can't think of the It's in Florida.
It's Keystone Heights, Florida is where we were. We were at Goldhead Branch State Park.
And we just never really got anything out of those. We would it would seem like we would make headway and then as soon as we stepped out like none of it translated into the real world and she was usually pissed on the way home and it was horrible. It was miserable and then she would go to work cuz we usually would go to that and then she would go to work afterwards. I just want to clear these sessions in Keystone Heights took place approximately four years ago at after the immediate birth of I don't think we started seeing her until I don't know maybe 6 months.
>> Okay.
>> And we kept seeing her until not long before we moved.
>> So we had a good number of sessions with her. So before you made up from Keystone Heights, you made your move to uh we came back down. This is where we came from. We came from came from the prairie and we couldn't wait to get back.
So, turned two and then we moved back down and she seemed a lot more stable by that point. I mean, she wasn't better, but she wasn't like stabbing things or throwing things anymore.
That's not true. She did throw stuff at that house, but it wasn't it wasn't scary while we were at that house.
And she was for a little while back in her old position. And it was the house we had moved out of to go up to Goldhead, but she was waiting to take the biologist position. And when that happened, we would move into the house that we were in.
that we were in now.
And as soon as she took on that new stress load, it just went downhill hard and fast all over again.
She was working. She's been averaging like 12 hours a day, five sometimes 6 days a week for the entire time that she's had that position, which has been almost 2 years now.
And I begged her the whole time we were at Goldhead take time off just, you know, just sometime so we could have some family time together cuz I thought maybe that would help us. She would never do it. Never do it. Never do it.
And she never did it when we got down here until right before she got the decision. We went up to West Virginia and saw our family.
And while we were there, I guess it was like she turned into the Jen before I ever met her. She just was old Jen, who I assume is who she always was with her family there at home. But on the way up there and on the way back down, it was horrible.
She has terrible travel anxiety and she's really mean when she feels anything negative at all, whether it's depression or anxiety or if she's sick with the flu.
So when we got back, we're need to get another counselor.
I would prefer that you go to a counselor and actually deal with your whatever it is that you need to deal with, but we can do it together if that's not going to happen. And it didn't happen for a while. It didn't happen for a while. And then the manager of the park was a friend of hers from before and that's the reason why we came back when we did because he wanted her for the biologist position because they worked together before.
His name was Daniel and he became my friend and we he lived right next to us. He was our only real neighbor.
And um I suspect you guys know what happened with Daniel.
He was shot by police in town.
He was having a really hard time with his wife. She cheated on him. He left or she left. He just couldn't deal with it.
And then I don't know what happened at the end, but somehow he ended up outside place with a gun and then he died and that was was very difficult for both of us.
And it was shortly after that that we started seeing the new counselor. And it was actually the counselor that Daniel and his wife had been seeing.
>> What was that counselor's name?
Scott.
Dr. Scott. It's a woman.
>> I can't remember her first name. She works through wellness wellness center or wellness tree changing tree. you know, something like that.
And it was the same thing that it had been before. You know, we would have like these moments where we would, you know, and part of the reason why we had to do it is because we couldn't talk about anything with just the two of us.
We had to have a third person there who had authority just so that we could have the conversation.
I I I realize this is going to sound like I'm just saying everything was wrong with her, and that's not true, but she just couldn't have a conversation, a straightforward conversation about anything that was emotionally tinged. And she would just [ __ ] go out there, man.
But if there was a professional present, someone who she felt like she had to listen to and couldn't yell over and who could say, "Well, actually, no. No one said that. No one is saying that."
Things like that. Then we could have a conversation, but none of it ever translated into the real world. as soon as we stepped out of there.
And I and we I told her the counselor that just like I told River and we haven't been to her for a while.
We went I think when it started to get the worst was when I decided I was going to go see my two grandmothers cuz they're both very old and one of them was pretty sick and I felt like this was my last chance and I hadn't met and I've offer a vacation for four years.
So finally I said look then I are going to go and see my grandmothers and I infuriated her at first at first she was like yeah that's makes sense that's fine and then she came home from work and I was the devil and I was trying to take her child away from her and it came back to a moment that I didn't own dead from back at Goldhead after we started seeing River presence, which was not what she needed to be on. She needed to be on some kind of [ __ ] anti-csychotic.
She started her on anti depressants and it supposed to take like five or six weeks to kick in.
Just a really hard time.
And she had one of like maybe three or four moments of clarity since he's been born.
And in that moment of clarity, she said, "Maybe you should go down to your parents for the next month or so until my medication kicks in." She had just finished actually apologizing, which was something that never happened.
And it was like she was normal again.
And I said, "Look, if you can sit here and have this conversation like this with me right now, then we don't need to go.
we're going to stay.
We're going to try and stay with you while your medication kicks in. And the very next morning was an absolute [ __ ] storm. And we had a counseling appointment the next morning.
And River probably has notes about the moment when I said fine down to my parents until your medication kicks in.
And when we got home, she said bye and went to work.
I came down to except she called me while we were still on the way down here and acted surprised that we weren't home, which blew my mind. I And when I got her to speak clearly enough to tell me why she was so upset, what it was she was confused about, it wasn't that she had forgotten we were leaving. It was that she thought she was going to have another chance to say goodbye again for some reason, which I didn't understand. We were already halfway down here. I wasn't going to turn around and go home, especially when we were leaving for the reasons we were leaving.
So, I came down and she did not take that well.
She took all the money out of the bank account, went through all my phone records and text records, and just did everything she could to figure out if I was going to leave the country cuz she thought I was going to take Ben and leave the country.
So, I decided to go down to Miami and visit my aunt and uncle down there because the most horrible thing I could think of at that moment was her showing up in the middle of the night at my parents house in the state that she had been in.
So, I went down there crazier and crazier on the phone. So, I decided what I had to do was baker.
So, I've been asking her to get a psychiatric evaluation and she refused to do it.
She said the counselor is good enough.
Although that lady was not experienced, didn't know what the hell she was doing and was not accomplishing anything for either of us.
So while I was in Miami, I went to the courthouse and I tried to do whatever I had to do to have invaracted and they told me that I couldn't do it from down there. That I had to actually physically be in the same county where my wife was, the county I had left to get away from her.
So after spending all day at the courthouse, me, my cousin decided that I was going to parents and I was going to drive back up to Klay County and pick her actor from there.
And the night that I got back to my parents from Miami, she said, "Please come home.
I'll get a psychiatric evaluation.
Please just come home. And I said, "Okay." She said she was feeling better.
She felt like her medication was kicking in and that she would get a psychiatric evaluation.
So I said, "Okay." And I came back home with next day. And when we got there, she was batshit crazy.
When I pulled in the driveway, the music was blaring in the home and getting to spend at least some time with his mother. On that day, he would go to my parents and Jen and I would go to the counseling session unless Ben came with us. He did come with us a few times in the beginning, but there was we didn't get anything out of it. She wasn't willing to hear anything that wasn't what she wanted to hear.
And I'm not sure when the last session was that we had with her.
>> Okay. That was October and I think we saw her through December and for New Year's Eve everything was normal. We went and hung out with friends and Stewart >> had a good time. It was good family time. Everything was normal for a while after that.
That was like one of the easy times, but they had never lost.
And it just went back to the back and forth, back and forth. Sometimes she would have a really good day, sometimes she would have a really bad day.
Uh, I've been doing that ever since until we first started talking about writing a relationship agreement.
It really caught me by surprise. She came to me and she said, "Look, why don't we talk about the relationship and what's going on and where both of us feel it's not working and what we can do about it."
And so we had like three conversations, but they were far between because she was almost never home.
And then we had a night I don't think when she demanded, she asked if I had put my stuff down on paper yet. I told her, "I haven't had time to put anything on paper.
This is what my time is all spent doing.
That is something I have to sit down and take time to do."
And uh and I asked her if she had and she was really pissed at me. She was like, "Well, you're not taking this serious." And I was like, "Be me. I'm taking this seriously. I want things to be better."
And so she's got mad and she slaps down a piece of paper in front of me that she had written earlier in the day, I assume.
And it said as of this date, and it was whatever it dated.
I don't know what it was, but I have it.
I have the paper. I said, "As of this day, Kevin, you and I are separated."
And I said, "Look, what is this? This is not what we're supposed to be talking about. This is not what you're supposed to be giving me. This is nothing what we were supposed to be doing here." She said, "Sign it." And I said, "I'm not signing that. I don't know what ramifications there might be to signing that. You just threw it at me out of nowhere when we're supposed to be doing this other thing.
I'm not signing it." And she screamed at me again and again, again, "Sign it.
Sign it. Sign it." And then she said, "Just get out of my life. Get out of my life." And screamed. Holy [ __ ] Maybe Ben was there.
Cuz she went to the bathroom. No, that was a that was a different day.
Ben wasn't there.
There was a different day a couple weeks before that. She ended up in the bathroom screaming and cursing and breaking things. So Ben and I were on the other side of the house in his room.
Um, so after I told her like I'm not going to sign it, out of nowhere she produces the document she was supposed to have produced the whole time. It was front and back >> typed out or printed and it was her terms for her, you know, her first draft for the relationship agreement. So, of course, that was the end of the conversation because she didn't want to talk about why she didn't produce that to begin with.
After that, we went back to talking about, look, we're going to figure out this relationship agreement thing. And then we had another day where she just out of the blue said, "Do you have it?"
I said, "Well, no. I still haven't had time to to actually put this on paper and print anything out because I spend all my time doing all this stuff and you're never here. And she said, "Well, then I want a divorce."
Which caught me a little by surprise.
And I said, "Okay."
She and Ben went for a walk and I went next door, spent some time with our neighbor, Alex, the new manager.
And for the next several days, the plan was that we were going to that was going to be the new conversation, how to go about having a divorce. She wanted me out of the house and I told her I'm not leaving this house unless with me. So, I'm the primary caregiver.
I'm the one taking care of him for 95% of the time. And you spend almost no time with him at all. It doesn't make any sense for him to not come with me.
And if you are unable to be home now, what makes you think that you're going to be able to be home even more than that to take care of when you're working and stuff?
So, a couple days later, she came to me with a different proposal and she said, "Instead of divorce, let's just get separated."
We were on the way to pick from my parents. We were in a van and she said, "How about this situation?"
And I said, "Well, if we're going to talk about this, I'm going to pull the van over and we're going to find some paper and we're going to take like minutes of the conversation and we're going to write down the details of what you're talking about because I don't have it in me to have another conversation that goes nowhere."
So that's what we did. We pulled over and I started writing down what she was saying on paper and I said, "Is this what you're talking about? This is the proposal that you're making?" And she said, "Yes."
And her proposal was that would stay with me almost all the time in my folks and that you could go spend a couple nights with her. And she still wanted to call it 50/50 custody and she wanted to pay me daycare fees for taking care of him, which was a little bit of a slap in the face to me.
This felt really wrong. And I told her, I'm not accepting or rejecting your proposal. I just want to talk about some of the things you you've said here. Like that's what you're talking about is not 50/50 custody.
Uh I think that I think that you're trying to set a precedent by putting something on paper that does not accurately depict what the situation really is. And so we didn't get anywhere. We ended that conversation with we're going to have to get a professional to mediate the separation conversation, which was probably going to be a lawyer or something because the counselor was really >> right >> going to be able to help us.
And so that's been the plan ever since then. And that was I don't know, maybe two weeks ago.
>> I have those papers going there dated.
>> Where are those papers at?
>> Okay.
So, let's go to April 19th, 2019, which is today.
Once again, how did the day start? She brought me up.
She was friendly.
She's been friendly for the last several days. Ever since we came to the new new agreement where I was going to we were going to try and stay in the same house.
>> Okay.
>> I was going to make her start making her breakfast and lunch again every day. She was going to be friendly and actually come home, spend time with the family.
limit her time to about 40 hours a week.
And it seemed like it was really going to happen. She was coming home earlier.
She was being friendly.
And this morning she said, "Come see what's outside.
Let's see what's in the shed.
She said it right after getting me out of >> when she came and told you this. Were you still in the bedroom?
>> No.
>> So, all right. Let's let's back up just a little bit. You were in your bedroom sleeping. She came in, woke you up. So, how did you guys end up telling me how you guys ended up outside? Like, did you put clothes on, shoes on?
>> I was wearing my sweatpants and a shirt.
The first thing I do every day is get on the inversion table and adjust my back and just try and get right physically so that I can do what I got to do. And then I go in to the kitchen and start with that stuff.
So, I was wearing those clothes.
>> Well, I sweat pass. I'm sorry to interrupt.
>> Like the color of those panels.
>> Okay. Dark gray. Did you have a shirt on?
>> Dark blue.
It was a long sleeve shirt, button down, two pockets on the front.
>> Okay. Detecting police.
Silent out there.
She had just come out of the bathroom.
She gave me a hug.
She said, "I was just outside and I heard something in the shed and you won't believe what it is. I don't know how they got in there."
So, we went out there.
I can't believe this [ __ ] happened.
What happened? She pressed something over my head on my neck and pulled it tight and pulled me back. and she said, "I'm sorry."
And I threw myself back against her and I think I hit her with the back of my head and my elbow and she screamed.
We were in the shed when she did that.
And we were on the ground outside the shed.
She kept trying to grab it. It was still on my neck.
She kept trying to grab it.
I don't really know.
I don't really know.
I don't remember taking it off.
I don't really remember how we got into that position until we were on the ground.
It was not on my neck anymore.
My arm was around her neck.
and I just held on.
I knew if I let go of her, she was going to kill me. I didn't know if she had a knife or a gun or something else or what would happen.
And to be perfectly honest, there wasn't a whole lot of higher brain function happening.
I just held on to her.
Holy [ __ ] I passed out probably just for a second. She was still on me. I was laying on the ground.
She was on me.
And then I heard inside the house crying. He had woken up.
So I got up.
I went to the door.
I think he opened the door and called outside for us. And then he went back in and closed it. So when I got there, he was back inside. Where did I find him?
I don't even know where I found him.
He asked me where mommy was. That's what he always asks.
I told him she had already gone to work and he asked why I was breathing so hard. I told him I've been exercising.
I told him I have to go find my phone outside.
So, you need to go back to bed and I'll come in and I'll lay down with you.
And I went out there. I looked all over for my phone and I couldn't find it.
I found her phone.
I don't know how to unlock her phone.
And it was broken anyway. So, I don't know if it would have worked.
And I looked all over.
>> Where did you find her phone at?
on the ground somewhere.
Where'd you find your photo?
Underneath her.
I couldn't find it anywhere else.
I looked underneath her and it was right there.
Okay.
>> So, I called my mom.
>> Yeah.
>> I told her I needed her to come get that.
And then I called 911.
And the rest is on the record somewhere, I guess.
>> Okay.
>> Went back and operator wanted me to stay on the phone.
When I came back in, Ben had gone to the bathroom.
I just kept her on the line and put the phone down and tried to tried to not look like I felt.
told him afterwards, "Let's just go lay in the bed for a little while." I think he asked me if I would lay down. I said, "Yes."
Um, he asked me why I was so dirty. I looked down and I was covered in dirt.
>> Yeah.
>> And then I heard a car door close.
It was mom and dad.
So I told them go to bed to keep pen in his room and I went back outside so that I could talk to the operator without Ben hearing me.
>> Right.
And then gave the phone to dad and I realized I wasn't only covered in dirt. I was covered in saliva and sweat and was covered in her.
So I went to the bathroom and I took my clothes off.
I sat down in the bathtub, turned the shower on, and I must have closed the drain because when dad told me the police were there and wanted to talk to me, I opened the drain train.
>> Yeah.
came in right before I'd gotten in the shower in the bathtub.
I thought I was going to throw up, but I didn't. I pooped.
When I got out of the bathtub, I felt like I was going to throw up again.
I was hyperventilating.
And the officers said, "You need to get up and put a clothes on."
And they handed me these dirty clothes that were sitting right there.
I put them on and we went outside.
I have no idea.
I don't know.
>> No.
>> Okay.
You don't remember when she hugged you?
What she was wearing?
No.
Once you hug, you just put arms around your shoulders or around your waist or a face to face hugs. Face to face and just like that.
>> Yeah, you felt something go around your neck.
Did you see what that was?
Did you say anything to her when it happened?
>> I don't know.
I don't think I would have spoken actual.
>> What would you have spoken?
>> Grunts and growls. But I honestly don't remember doing that either. Think so.
Did she say anything to you um during all this?
>> She said sorry when she put it on my neck.
She said sorry again while we were struggling at some point.
That's all she said.
Okay, let me take a quick two second break.
I'll be right back.
It was there yesterday.
Right.
>> I have no idea.
>> Right.
>> Kevin, how long have you guys two been together?
I think it was maybe 10 years that we were together on December 6th.
>> Yeah.
>> Unless it was But our anniversary is a different date.
So I just say about 10 years.
>> 10 years.
>> Unless it was 11, we didn't exactly we would have done anything special for our >> right >> 10 years.
And I always counted it from the day that we went on our first date and she always wanted to count it as day we got married.
So, gotcha.
So, Kevin, if I was to take that cup of water and just keep pouring water into it, what's going to happen?
It's going to overfill, right? It's going to burst, right? 10 years. for 10 years. You've been showing all your emotion, all your love, all your devotion to this woman.
She failed to give it back to you.
>> She gave me what she could, >> right?
>> She was a broken person.
>> Okay?
>> She was broken for very good reasons.
And I'm not going to say that was perfect and didn't get very angry about the way that she behaved, but I understood why she was the way she was.
And even though part of that were choices that she made, she was [ __ ] up long before I met her.
And there's no way I think anybody could have gone what we went through >> right >> without being >> right.
>> I didn't hate her for I didn't know.
I spent four years trying to keep her alive.
>> Okay.
How'd you try to keep her alive? What did you do in the past?
talked about killing herself.
>> Did she to?
>> To me, to the counselor of the golden head, to the lady, the doctor that gave her the psych evaluation, to the counselor that we had here.
>> Sorry to be so blunt, but why not kill herself instead of trying to kill you?
I have felt like the danger of her killing herself passed back at Gold.
>> Yeah. There was a point in the beginning after birth there was just chaos inside of her. I was afraid she would kill herself.
>> Yeah.
>> But by the time that we moved back down here, I didn't feel like that was ever going to happen.
Or else I would have tried to do something.
>> Okay.
>> I would have had her bigger acted here.
>> Right.
>> The last time she mentioned suicide to me was when we were on the road trip September and October and we talked about that with the counselor.
And she hasn't said anything about suicide since. And that was the first time she had mentioned suicide for I don't know how long.
Where do you feel she is now?
I wish I knew.
I like to think >> I mean the reason I asked is because I I' I've obviously talked to mom and dad and they've said that you enjoy yoga, you enjoy being out in the woods, you enjoy, you know, spiritual healing, you enjoy stretching your back out. I said you really enjoy stretching your back out on nature. So the only reason I asked that is for that reason. Where where do you feel she is now?
>> I don't know.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. I like to think certain things.
Yeah. But I think the biggest mistake people make in that area >> is thinking that they know the answers.
>> Right.
>> So I I like to think that she is better than she was yesterday.
I hope.
>> Right.
But yesterday she was friendly. She was in a good place, right? She'd been She'd been happy for at least a couple days.
She was >> never really in a good place.
>> No, >> she was friendlier.
>> Yeah, >> she was still sick.
>> Okay.
>> She was never going to stop being sick until she decided to actually do something about it. But she stopped admitting there was a problem a couple years ago.
>> Okay. Were you guys um collectively close to like your neighbor Alex and some of the people that you work with or um we hung out with Alex and Ranger Frank and you know people come and go for through the seasons there. So we only get so close to some of the other staff members and any of them aware of like some of the issues that she was dealing obviously with them being her employer.
um the type of work she does. Were they aware of some of the issues that you guys were having as far as her mental health? She talked to Daniel a lot about her depression, about not being able to let go of anger and things like that because she was going through the exact same. She probably talked to Alex. I don't know to what extent.
She might have talked to Natalie in the office, the administrative assistant, but I don't I don't know. They used to have a really bad relationship. They're friendly now.
I don't know if they talk about that kind of stuff. I doubt it. Chen's one of the only constant things about her was not wanting to admit something was wrong.
So let me ask you this.
Did you uh there were conver you told us that you guys had many conversations about how you wanted to make arrangements for your relationship to coexist uh for the benefit of your son and these conversations. Okay. and you would express to her some of the things that you wanted you wanted her to comply with and she expressed things to you that she wanted you to comply with like you gave us an example of making breakfast and her lunch stuff like that.
Am I correct in saying that?
>> Mhm.
>> Okay. So, as far as what were her grievances about you that that compelled her to want to seek a divorce?
>> The biggest thing was always been When we met, she was extremely uncomfortable around children.
She knew that she wanted to have kids, but she didn't know how capable she would be of taking care of them and giving them what they needed. It's been a dream of mine for a long time. I'm one of those weird, rare guys who wants to be a daddy really badly, and I'm willing to stay home and do it. So that was very early on in our relationship. We understood that about each other and knew that if we did get married, that's what we would do.
As soon as she had the baby, all of that started to get less clear.
She was very insecure about the fact that she didn't feel the things that she thought a mother was supposed to feel towards her child was one of the hot topics in counseling.
Part of the reason was because I think just all the massive stress, but also what she told me was that she missed out on some hormonal exchange in childbirth because she had a C-section.
And she said that she felt like that was the reason. I think it was a little deeper than that cuz and of course when she said that it was like she had never been of the mind where she was uncomfortable around kids and if I may interrupt just a second. Okay, I get all that you you've you shared that much with us but my my thing is I want to know specifically in regards to you and her what was her grievance about you?
She said that she felt like I didn't let her be a mother in her own way.
And was there any was there aside from her relationship with with with your son? Were there any Was there anything else that she directly expressed she had a problem with them pertaining to just you your marriage besides the child specifically with the relationship?
She felt like I didn't listen to her when we had conversations, which I did everything in my power to listen and understand and respond.
And then when I responded, she would go off in a completely different direction.
And that would happen throughout the entire conversation every time almost.
And yet her complaint was that I wasn't listening to her when the only thing I ever tried to do was hear whatever the heck she wanted me to hear and act on it cuz for God's sake I just wanted us to be okay.
She had a problem with the fact that I sometimes start projects and don't finish them for a while. That's the major big issues.
And then most of the time it didn't actually get talked about, but whenever things got really hairy, the mother thing, her mother and the whole thing that happened with her mother always came back up and she always cited that as why she couldn't stop being angry at me because she felt like I had really wronged her and wronged her mother.
How did it make you feel when she said, "I want a divorce."
>> I was shocked. I didn't expect her to say it right then.
>> Yeah.
>> And I was okay with it after that. I'd been fighting it for so long and trying to keep us together for so long. When she straight up said, "I want a divorce."
There's really you can't say a whole lot down to that that limits your options.
>> So, I felt like it was okay to stop trying to force it to stay together so much.
>> Okay.
>> I was a little shaken at first.
>> Yeah. And I went over and talked to Alex and she actually um walk right after that conversation and she ran into Alex outside and she said, "Alex, Kevin probably wants to hang out and talk a little bit." So he's the one I had the conversation with. So I told him, "Look, we've been doing this a long time. This is not working out, right?"
>> I guess it is what it is. So I can the ultimate ultimate prize up here, right?
>> Mhm. What would if I asked him what happened this morning?
>> God, I really hope he would say that he woke up and didn't see either of his parents in the house and then I came back.
>> Okay.
What if he did see something?
I don't see how that would be possible.
But that would be horrible.
>> Why wouldn't that be possible?
>> Cuz she was inside the house.
>> But at one point in time, he did scream for mommy or daddy, right?
He did scream after the struggle.
>> After the struggle >> and he didn't know where we were. If he had seen something, he would have known where we were and he would have come out.
But there's also the shock factor, right?
Even if he I just don't see how he could have seen any, >> right?
>> I just I I don't see how that would have been possible.
>> Okay.
>> Okay.
got.
>> Oh yeah.
>> Yeah.
Very very very very intellectual young man.
>> It's what we're trying to foster.
>> Yeah. Very intellectual man.
Um, it's horrible to be exposed to this, right?
What is How feel knowing that daddy killed mommy?
I don't know how to handle that.
I grew up hearing a story, a false story about my father's death.
Right.
>> And I was angry when I found out the truth and that I've been lied to. But I totally get now. I don't think I could ever tell him what really happened and he's going to find out eventually because it's the information age and he's >> going to tear him up. I I I I have no idea how to even approach I've never put much thought into it.
I've only just tried to keep the three of us together. So, I don't know how to deal with him having even less of her.
He He's never had enough of her.
And now he's not gonna have her at all.
And that's just going to be the most horrible thing that's ever happened to him.
And someday when he learns more, there's nothing I can do to prevent it.
I don't know what to do about that.
It's just going to have to be whatever it is. I guess he would be He'd be distraught.
>> Absolutely.
>> Just to know that she's gone is going to be terrible. But if he knew or if he seen him, that's an image you could never get out of your money ever.
Especially at four year old, four years old when you're starting to process thing and starting to learn how things work. Why the grass is green, why flowers smell like flowers.
>> He's beyond that.
>> Absolutely.
>> He's gonna It would be very complicated inside of him.
>> Yeah.
>> Why are we talking so much about that?
Why are we talking so much about that?
He came out. He was crying for somebody.
>> I don't think he actually came out. I think he opened the door and yelled out.
>> Yeah. Okay.
Were you guys planning to travel anytime soon?
Yeah. Where are you guys planning to travel to? West Virginia again for her parents' anniversary >> for the same lady that let's be honest.
I'm a human being. You're a human being.
You kind of despise her a little bit for putting that could potentially correct.
>> No.
>> No.
>> I was never going to allow her to put my son's life at risk again.
>> Okay. Joyce is not a healthy person.
>> Okay.
>> She's part of the reason childhood was as messed up as it was.
>> Okay.
>> There's just no everybody knows it.
So she just is her, >> right?
>> I'm just not going to ever leave my child alone with her.
>> Okay. So, tell me about this trip.
>> Well, we're supposed to fly out.
>> Yeah. And we usually drive.
I don't think anyone had the stomach for that after the last trip.
We were going to be there cuz her all her brothers would be there and celebrate and do family stuff.
And then they were going to do another celebration in June maybe or or May.
Um all the kids were going to pitch in for a beach house in >> Okay.
>> South Carolina, I think.
>> Yeah.
>> So, we were going to fly up again for that.
I forget her reasoning why.
it was going to happen that way. Maybe someone wasn't going to make it for the first trip or maybe they really wanted to do the beach house thing and couldn't do it in time.
Okay. So, do you guys ever buy the tickets?
>> Nope.
>> Why not?
because I didn't take responsibility for it. I left it. She was coordinating with her brothers.
>> Yeah.
>> And it fell through the cracks.
>> Okay.
>> Because she worked all the time.
>> Yeah. What was it going to cost to get up there?
I started looking up tickets on Wednesday.
>> Yeah.
>> And it would have been about the same I figured as if we drove it would have been faster.
Um, it was like by the time I looked it up, it was about $900.
>> Okay.
>> And then, of course, it would have been less.
We' gotten them when they first planned all this. And then I told her that and she said, "Look up Spirit Airlines."
>> Yeah.
>> And um I pulled it up while we were having the conversation.
and I never follow through with it.
>> Okay, here's something I do know.
I do know I was upset and it was from a statement that you made.
That statement was, "I could save you some money if myself and Ben do not go on this trip with you."
>> I don't think that's quite how I said that.
>> Okay. But it was said in that sort of manner, right?
I believe how that part of the conversation went was she might have told me first. Don't come.
Or maybe I said that first. I I don't know.
>> Okay. She told me she wanted to only buy two tickets at one point.
>> Yeah. For her husband. And I told her that's unacceptable.
I'm coming with you.
>> Yeah.
>> You came with us.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm going with you. It only makes sense.
And if I don't go, no one's going to be quiet.
So she said, "Fine.
You look up tickets and get tickets.
>> Okay.
>> So, do you feel she is that irresponsible to watch on her own?
>> Yes.
>> Why?
This is a list that goes back before we ever had a kid just with dogs, you know, like practice for kids. But then once we had been once I finally got her around to actually spending time with him, >> right?
>> I believe I walked out the front door at least six times and she was smoking a cigarette right next to him in the carriage when he started to crawl. She wanted to let them loose in the backyard. And that yard was really horrendous. It was full of broken glass and nails and screws and all kinds of horrible stuff from the people that had been there before us who had four kids and just really made a mess. Shot bottles off the fence post and stuff like that. Um it's just usually when she comes home, she's not interested in having family time. And then if I do get them in a situation where the two of them are doing something, she ignores him for half the time until he's like acting out just to get attention. It's that's just the way she's always been.
>> Why agree to go in by herself?
>> To where?
>> West Virginia. I believe in you.
>> She never would have done that.
>> What?
>> She would have wanted to.
She afraid that maybe you be there when she gets back.
>> No, I think she would have known better than that.
Although maybe not.
>> Were you in fear that if she went by herself with that she might not come back?
>> Where would she go?
>> West Virginia. She's already there.
>> That never occurred to me.
>> Okay.
>> She She loved the prairie as much as I do.
You told me in the past You told me in the past that she was afraid you'd go to out of the country somewhere >> cuz she's crazy.
>> Okay. Is it not safe to say that she would think you'd leave the country if she left you?
>> I don't think she was in that same place anymore. That was like in the first year life. That was when she was the most unpredictable and the most deluded.
She knew that I wanted to stay in the prairie, >> right?
>> That I wanted the three of us to stay there together, >> right?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
So Kevin, you understand with us?
Kevin, did you kill J?
>> I can't think of any other explanation for it.
>> Okay.
Why'd you kill?
So she wouldn't tell me.
>> Okay.
Do you feel she could outpower you?
>> She was actually very strong and I have spine injuries.
>> Okay.
>> And it was a hard struggle.
I don't know if she thought that she had a trick up her sleeve or something. I had nothing to do.
>> Right.
Right.
Okay.
>> Why do you have scratches on your back?
>> Do I have scratches on my back?
>> On your neck area? You felt some earlier, you said?
>> Yeah. than this one.
>> Is it safe to say that she was giving you a sign that you were hurting her?
>> No. I think she was giving me a very clear sign that she was trying to hurt me or she was struggling for her life.
>> We were both struggling for our lives.
>> Okay.
Okay.
You know, you say you're struggling for your life, but yet I don't have any marks on your neck from the strap being around your neck.
>> That's great.
>> Why?
>> Beard when she wanted to.
>> You still have the neck area.
>> Mhm.
>> Why isn't there on the back of your neck?
>> Would it have to maybe get rubbed around more?
Maybe she didn't pull it tight enough long enough to leave a bruise or a mark.
>> No, sir. It doesn't take that long.
>> Was it maybe a kind of I don't know.
>> You have fingernail marks on your hands.
Why?
>> I assume she was crying at her fingers.
>> If that was from her, it happened while we were fighting.
Was she clawing at your fingers and saying, "Let me go."
>> No.
>> Okay.
>> What was she saying?
>> She said, "I'm sorry." Twice at least.
>> While you're choking her out, she's saying, "I'm sorry."
>> No.
>> What did you say?
>> She said, "I'm sorry." And let you put whatever it was on my neck. And she said, "I'm sorry." While we were struggling.
>> Okay.
So once again, explain to me why there's not a single mark on your neck.
>> I don't have an explanation for you.
>> Okay.
There's no explanation. Right. So when >> Oh, there's an explanation.
>> When they put cups around you, those weren't on there very long, but yet they left a red mark.
>> Mhm.
>> Right.
>> They were very tight and it was wedged into the back seat like this in an extremely uncomfortable position. It's very tight. So, if the straps around my neck and it's very tight and it's making me uncomfortable, would it not leave a mark?
>> I didn't stand there and let her do it.
>> Okay.
>> I immediately fought her off of me.
>> Okay.
Okay.
>> I'm not surprised that there's no mark.
>> Why?
>> Cuz I don't feel anything there now. I don't feel a mark. I immediately reacted.
>> Yeah.
>> Your immediate reaction was to kill your wife.
>> No, my immediate reaction was to get her off of me. And then we hit the ground.
And my immediate reaction after that was to keep her hands off of my neck.
>> And were you successful in doing it?
>> Apparently not completely successful.
But >> why why do you say that? She's just scratching my neck.
>> When I am here, >> what? When when would I run away?
>> When When I don't understand.
>> When you pushed her back and you hit her in the head.
>> The two She had a hold of my neck, >> right, >> with an instrument of death, >> which was really >> The two of us >> went back onto the ground.
>> Yeah.
>> And then fought. So then there would even make it more tighter and it' cinch it down, would it not?
>> And it would make it even tighter.
>> I don't know.
>> Instrument you never seen her.
>> It would. But you just said that you fought her off of you. So if you fought her off of you and y'all lost contact, you had an opportunity to walk away from the situation.
>> We were never not in contact after we became in contact. So, did did you fight her off of you or not? Because that's what you just said.
>> Cuz are the words I chose for what I was trying to do, she was attached to me in some way or another until she couldn't be.
>> I look Yeah.
>> not much taller than I am.
>> No, she's not.
>> She probably weighs about 90 lb soaking wet.
No, she weighs much more than that.
>> Give or take.
>> When she is weighed, as I'm sure she will be, >> then we can talk about how much she weighs.
>> Is it not safe to say that you can outpower her?
>> I did outpower her.
>> You were taller than her.
>> I am taller than her.
>> You are a male species. She is a female species.
>> That doesn't actually mean a whole lot.
>> Okay. Even if it does or it doesn't, >> couldn't it be safe to say you could have pushed her away and run away?
>> I obviously was not able to push her away and run away. As soon as I began to fight back, I was disoriented in a ball and we ended up on the ground. I did not get on my feet again until after it was over. See, I was going inside the house to go to my son. So once it was over, you made sure it was really over.
>> How would I do that?
>> You made sure that it was done 100%.
>> No.
>> Okay.
>> I wanted to get away from her.
>> So if I was to drown >> if I was to drown and somebody would pull me out of the water, I'm not completely dead. They can they start CPR on me.
>> Okay.
>> And there's still oxygen in my brain.
>> Correct. So, in order to choke somebody out, you can go unconscious before losing oxygen to your brain. You got to continue to choke that person out and fence down on that neck and deprive that oxygen. I held on to her as long as she was moving.
>> Okay.
>> If she had stopped moving and I thought that I was safe, >> Mhm.
>> I would have let go of her.
I actually wasn't thinking very much through that process.
My body was doing the thinking for me.
>> Okay.
>> What do you think was going on in your mind whenever you were had her your arm around her neck?
>> What was going on in the base of my mind where I don't think something reptilian >> probably. Did any point in time did you say this is the woman I love? This is the woman that fathered my child that I care for so much. No, I wasn't thinking anything that could clear me.
>> You say you love her, right? That didn't overpower these reptilian thoughts.
>> No, I was not thinking about love. I wasn't feeling love. I was feeling afraid and hurt and hurt.
The fact that she would do something like that >> when I tried to do the opposite >> or the fact that she would give you divorce papers.
>> We were going to get divorced anyway. We were only trying to wait till older >> or the fact she wouldn't come home because she was at work.
You don't kill someone for working too much or the fact because she wasn't a great mother to She was a horrible mother most of the time for 4 years and all my effort went into getting her to spend more time with him and keep the three of us together.
>> Absolutely.
>> That's the opposite of what you're suggesting.
>> Okay.
>> Forgive me if I start to get a little testy. I know that no matter I'm very tired.
Were there any ever any ever any issues and infidelity uh in your marriage?
Not in reality.
Unless when she came to me talking about setting up the relationship agreement, I had a very strong feeling that it was because she had found someone that she wanted to have some other kind of relationship with, which is something we discussed two years ago. The night that she stopped sleeping in the room with me as service, this is the first time I ever thought she actually was acting on it.
And I thought it was a woman. She told me that it was a man. She did not tell me who it was. She said that they don't quit. And that is literally all the words that we exchanged on that.
I don't want to hear about it.
>> How long ago was this?
>> Like a week ago.
>> Kevin, why was her vehicle ready to go?
>> Both her work truck and her minivan.
I drive the minivan and I don't know what you mean by ready to go.
>> Her personal belongings were in the pickup truck >> as if she was ready to leave.
>> Why wouldn't she have left?
>> Whatever was in She hadn't gotten breakfast or lunch. I don't I don't understand your question.
>> Okay.
>> Whatever was in her truck is whatever would always be in her truck.
>> Yeah. What was in the van?
Uh some of my personal items, some stuff uh garbage recycle.
I think I put the recycling in there.
Um yeah, and full of stuff to throw away.
And I think there might have been something to take to mom and dad's So, there was some personal belongings for Kevin. Some personal belongings dead, but no personal belongings.
>> Where was Kevin and Ben going to go?
>> I'm sure she has personal belongings still in the van.
>> Okay.
>> She only rode with us anywhere in the van like two or three times a month.
>> Yeah.
>> The vast majority of the time the van is just for Ben and I to get around.
>> Okay. The last time that she did ride in the van with us, we went to town on Sunday or Monday.
>> Yeah.
>> So, I guarantee she left something in there.
And who knows what was in there from before that day.
So, why was there uh stuffed, toys, and clothes in these garbage bags inside of the van?
>> Were they in a bag in a box?
>> Yeah, there was a couple bags in there just by themselves and clothing.
>> Goodwill stuff. It was in the front seat.
That might have been also the Goodwill stuff. If there wasn't room in the back, I would have put it in the front seat cuz there would be nobody riding in the front seat.
Um, there's probably more than one.
I only remember putting the only Goodwill stuff to go to Goodwill I remember putting in there was in a box in a bag and I probably put that in the front seat. There may have been another one in the back somewhere. And there's probably another box inside the house with other stuff that needs to go.
>> All right, let's go over the timeline cuz my my memory isn't great. I didn't take any unlock your iPhone first.
>> No, thank you.
>> What time did she wake you up? Tell me.
>> Okay, you had to guess. What time was it?
I honestly don't know.
>> Okay. What time do you normally get up or she get up?
>> She gets up anywhere from 4 to 6.
>> Okay.
>> Depending on what she's doing that day.
>> Okay.
>> And since I started making her breakfast.
>> Yeah.
>> She's probably had me up by quarter to six.
>> Okay. So, what happened this morning?
>> Let's go over that again. What exactly happened this morning?
>> The mom.
>> Okay. I went to the bathroom, got on the inversion table, came out into the living room, saw her coming out of the bathroom, she gave me a hug, she told me to come outside. We went to the shed, and I had the worst day of my life.
>> Okay.
if if I if I may one second.
>> Um because I I uh I was at your residence and I understand that you do have two bathrooms inside, correct?
>> Yeah, she was coming out of the one that has the cat litter and the tub that's by bedroom.
>> Okay. So, you saw her coming out of the bathroom from the bedroom that you sleep in?
>> No, I was in the living room. Okay. All right. Please continue. I just wanted to clarify that.
Um, can you tell me where to continue?
>> Um, from you seeing her from the living room. She gave me a hug and said, "Good morning."
She said, "Come see what's in the shed.
I was outside. I heard something in the shed. Went and looked." She told me to come look. After we got out on the steps, she told me it was baby possums.
And then we went to the shed.
>> Okay. What happened in the shed?
We opened the door. She stepped up. I stepped up. She told me. We stayed right there, just barely inside.
>> Yeah.
>> We We whispered outside of the shed.
And when we were inside, I don't think she spoke. I don't think she must read anymore. She didn't.
She said, "Look up there and wait." So, we waited.
Okay.
Give me JUST Do this notice.
Kevin, I'm uh I'm going to be straight up with you. I have a serious problem with some of the things that you've shared with me and Detective Buno.
Um I'm very disturbed um with uh the manner in which um your wife died.
So, um, you you I don't understand how you are because, you know, you said you love this woman and you don't recall what exactly was around your neck. You don't recall it being removed from your neck from what you've told us.
So, if you can't recall these things, how am I I have no I have no reason to believe that you were even your life was even in danger to begin with because there's no marks on your neck. I have scr scratch marks on the back on on the back of your neck that we see that could be defense marks from your wife trying to get away from you or trying to let you know that you were hurting her. So, the point I'm trying to make to you is the things that you said to us aren't making sense.
>> I don't know.
>> Let me finish.
>> Yes, sir.
>> You said you held on to her with your arm around her neck until she stopped moving. Nothing registered in your mind to think that you was going to kill her.
Huh?
>> I don't recall her stopping.
>> You don't recall her stopping? I held on. She was moving.
>> No, that's what But but here's the thing. You told us did, correct me if I'm wrong, Detective Guardo, did he not say when we talked about this moments ago that he held on until she stopped moving? That's correct.
>> I believe what I said was that I held on and held on and held on and blacked out. Right now from what?
>> Adrenaline, stress hormones.
>> Mr. Keys, you don't black out from adrenaline.
>> Nope.
Wake you up.
>> I was lightheaded for a couple hours afterwards.
But man, all I have to tell you is the same stuff.
>> You were light you were light you were lightheaded and and you were supposedly or or your suggestion that you were perhaps disoriented in such a way, but you that that father instinct in you worked well because you you you had enough wit about you to just check on your son because you heard him. After I was done having this.
>> After you were done murdering your wife.
>> After you were done, let's call it what it is. After you were done murdering your wife.
>> After I killed my wife.
>> After you were done murdering your wife.
>> In self-defense.
>> In self-defense. I have no proof of that.
>> You have no proof of anything except for whatever the scratches. I have no proof of what you've told us that that that that you had a reason to defend yourself.
>> Item that item an item that's used to to be placed around a person's neck from someone that's attempting >> has to be there.
>> Let me let me finish. Let me finish. An item that's used to be placed around someone's neck in an attempt for that person to strangle another person, we refer to as a liature. All right. There are no liature marks around your neck.
You can't recall how you got the liature around from around your neck. And so my thing is this. If I'm being choked, the first the first action that I'm going to take is to get whatever it is that's cutting off my supply from around my neck. Regardless of what the person is trying to do to me, I need to breathe because if I can't breathe, I can't think. I can't function. But you're saying that you don't remember how it got from around your neck. You don't remember what it was that was around your neck. So, how can we how can we justify your your your argument of self-defense if you can't remember what the item was or remember how it got got from around your neck?
>> I never saw the item with my eyes.
>> But if it was around your neck, you could have felt it.
>> It would not have >> Was it a fish? Was it a fishing line? Do you want it a rope? Was it a fishing line? Was it a rope? Was it a belt?
>> Maybe a rope.
>> We know how things feel.
>> I didn't see it. It wasn't there long enough to stop me from breathing for long. I immediately backed onto her.
>> So, it wasn't there long. It wasn't there long enough to stop you from breathing, but you felt that was enough to murder your wife. It wasn't there long enough for me to not be able to think and make me panic and go for that instead of the person.
>> But it was there long enough for you to say, "I'm going to murder my wife."
>> It was there long enough for me to say, "Holy [ __ ] my wife is trying to murder me."
>> But if it wasn't there long enough, how can you suggest she was trying to murder you?
>> Why else would she be trying to strangle me at whatever time in the morning in the shed?
>> I'm not even sure anything was around here, Nick. Right.
>> I have no idea how I could ever possibly prove that to you. So, I think you're going to have to call that whatever you decide to call it, >> Mr. Kevin.
>> Yes, sir.
>> Here's where I know you're full of [ __ ] >> Okay. Pardon my language. You went back looking for that phone. Okay.
You moved her to find your phone.
Right? While doing so, you stated that you saw her phone, right? And it was broken.
Well, guess what, mister? You walked right past the so-called object that was there to strangle you. So, how did you not see it? How was it around out your neck?
>> So, you found it.
>> Did we find it? You tell us.
>> That's what you just told me.
>> Was it there? Because obviously you don't know where it's at. just told me that it was there.
>> You just told me that.
>> I'm asking you. Did you walk past it?
Did you not Did you not see it?
>> I had to have walked past it.
>> Okay.
>> I was looking for my phone.
>> You were looking for your phone >> and I was trying not to register my wife's body on the ground. I was very focused on the phone, trying not to notice anything that was not a phone. I found her phone >> and then continued looking for my phone.
But later on, you noticed all the dirt and saliva all over your body and said, "Oh [ __ ] I got to go take a shower."
>> How would I not when my son pointed out to me that I was covered in >> when your son possibly seen you murder your wife?
>> Listen, if my son would have seen anything like that, all you would have to do is talk to him about what happened this morning and he would say, >> "Well, obviously he didn't say that cuz it didn't happen. It didn't happen. You didn't murder your wife.
>> My son would have told you.
>> Daddy did not kill mommy.
Mommy is no longer here. Where's daddy at right now?
>> Are you saying that's what he said?
>> I don't know why you're saying that to me, though.
>> Okay.
>> Where is daddy right now?
>> Are you asking me though?
>> That's what he said.
Yeah, he's probably wondering where both of his parents are.
>> Okay. What happened to What happened when you were strangling on her? What was your last words? She didn't say anything.
>> Why?
Because you were grasping her so hard that she couldn't say anything. That you were making sure that she could not breathe.
>> I was not making sure of anything. No, >> I was acting on instinct, defending myself. You were acting on instinct as someone was trying to kill me.
>> Have you ever had to defend yourself from being almost killed before?
>> No one has ever tried to kill.
>> Have you ever receive any training on how to place someone in a choke hole before?
>> No, sir.
>> So, how is how so so um I'll give you a perfect example. As a law enforcement officer, if I'm placed in a situation where where I where I perhaps may have to use deadly force, you know, instinctively, I go to my host and draw my service weapon. That's that's an instinct for me because I train.
>> Mhm.
>> So, I mean, why was murdering your wife and choking her out instinctively the first solution to your problem? 911. You said that whatever was around your neck wasn't there that long. So, there was another way that this situation could have hand been handled. You could have ran away from her, removed yourself from her. You You are bigger than this woman.
>> I did >> by two times at least.
>> I was not able to get away from her.
>> She was still trying to get me.
>> How so? Did she have Did she have you bar to the ground? Did she have you restrained? Did she have your hands to where you couldn't maneuver your hands and feet?
>> The best mental image >> You're almost 6 feet tall, man.
>> The best mental image I have of that moment is like a cartoon where there's a bunch of scraggly lines and there's arms and legs sticking out of it.
Okay, I can tell you the few things that I felt and what I do remember. I can't tell you what I didn't see. I can't tell you anything from a third person perspective where it would have all been much more clear.
I can't I definitely don't have any way to prove anything to you. I don't know how I ever would.
So, this is coming from a man from what I've spoken to people say won't kill an ant will walk around an empire. He's never killed an animal in his life to just murdering his wife.
>> I do kill invasive fire ants. I have killed animals.
>> Okay.
>> We raised rabbits when we were younger and we ate them. I've killed chickens.
>> Not according to your mother.
>> Well, she might have been trying to get the spirit of who I am across and not been thinking about the fact that I've killed many chickens over there.
>> So, let's talk about your spirit. How are you going to face your spirit knowing that you murdered your wife?
>> If you want something different to come out of my mouth, you're going to have to give me something different to respond to.
>> You murdered your wife.
>> I did not murder my wife.
>> Your wife?
>> My wife tried to murder me.
>> How?
>> There's no evidence of that. That doesn't >> You do not have You do not You do not You do not have any marks around your neck to indicate that you were strangled.
>> So, it's working against me that I immediately reacted and that I won.
>> Hell [ __ ] yeah.
>> Well, then that's going to happen.
>> You You're 6' You're 6'.
So, you feel like a big shot. You do not >> choke this little woman out.
>> Who said anything about a big shot? If someone is trying to kill me, >> someone you love, the mother of your child.
>> If the mother of my child tries to kill me with an object that you said wasn't around your neck that long. So apparently if it wasn't around your neck that long, you got control of the situation before she died. So you had you had a choice. Do I go forward with with with murdering my wife or do I stop? You chose to murder your wife.
>> There was no choice.
>> Why wasn't there a choice? If the the object was no longer around your neck, there was a choice because she was a moment where I made a choice to do that.
>> I reacted. We fought.
>> You thought you did make a choice.
>> Not with my higher brain.
>> Listen, man. I'm telling you. Yeah. I I'm going give you another example in my profession. Me and me me and Detective Gardino get into an altercation and he pull his gun out on me. I pull mine out on him. He put his back and say, "All right, I quit. If I shoot him still, I'm wrong because he gave up. I had a choice.
>> Apples and oranges."
>> No, it's not. You had a choice. Yeah, if if the threat was no longer there, which we don't which I don't believe existed right now.
>> The threat was right there on the ground with me still clawing and trying to kill me.
>> No, no. Calling to tell you that she was he was hurting her and she was fighting for her life >> for whatever it was that was still on my neck so that she would get the chance.
>> But you said it wasn't there that long.
>> I said I don't know when it came off. It obviously wasn't there long enough before I reacted for her to stop in in the situation that you're you're putting forward.
The way that you think I know you don't really think this, but this is the words you're using in my perspective. I would have I should have just stood there long enough for her to have actually cut the oxygen off of my brain long enough to where I would then panic and and understand Mr. Hughes. I'm not saying that at all. What I'm saying based based on what you've told us today thus far this started in the shed. She went you said she came up behind you placed something around your neck. You don't know what it was. I'm telling you that we have we have the sense of touch.
So you can based on the sense of touch, you can determine whether it was a rope, a belt, a fishing line, an an extension cord. But that's that's that's that's besides the point right now.
When you felt whatever it was go around your head, she said, "I'm sorry." That's what you said. you your head uh you got you backed up into her some kind of way somehow. You guys end up on the ground.
After you end up on the ground, a struggle ensues on the ground and you're saying that you don't remember whatever it was around your neck being there that long. But whatever happened, you end up with her neck in your arm and you don't let go until she start stops moving.
I'm not aware of her not moving.
>> All the time that you told my neck on her, she was moving with my arm on her.
>> You said you But let me let me refresh your memory because remember this is on tape.
>> I'm sure you >> you recall you hear where I say that she was moving and she was moving a long time and when I came to she was not moving. She was laying on me and my arm was no longer around.
>> Yeah, but here's the thing. You said language.
>> You said But here you said you said that when we asked you why didn't you why didn't you stop? Remember when we asked you that?
>> And you said because she would she would not stop or attacking you or fighting you and you held on until she was no longer moving. That's what you said. My I hesitate to call it a thought process or chain of thought. What was happening inside of me was that I had to stop her from killing me. And so I did whatever I had to do to fight her off of my neck at some point. I must have been the one who took that off my neck. I do not remember doing it. My beard does not feel things as well as your fingers do. It may have been a small rope.
I did not let her keep it on there long enough to have any real effect on me. I immediately threw myself back against her and fought her and she continued to fight me. This what I'm talking about right here. This This is what I'm talking about. See, now I feel like you are starting to starting to just become honest just a little bit about the situation because see, you're starting to use words like allow, let things like that, that means that you were in control at some point. That means, like I said before, you had a choice.
When you allow and let somebody do something, you you are in control. You have a choice. What would you do if you were in the situation that I was in?
>> I wouldn't murder my [ __ ] wife.
>> I didn't murder my wife.
>> All right. I don't know what you call it because I ain't murdered.
>> You're going to continue to throw whatever you have at me.
I'm going to keep giving you the same story.
The reason that you're not going to prove I murdered my wife is because I didn't murder my wife.
And therefore there is no proof that I did.
>> The reason that >> Oh, there's all the proof. All the proof is there that you murdered your wife.
Totally.
>> You strangled your wife and you put your murder on hold on. You put your arm around the woman that you love. You show no compassion to this woman that you love after the fact that you murdered her. You did not sit there. You did not hold her body. You did not call her name. You went inside to check on your child that possibly seen you murder your wife.
>> So, you're telling me you did not murder your wife? Hold on.
>> Hold on.
>> That's [ __ ] You show no compassion.
You've shown no compassion this whole time. You have not shed a single [ __ ] tear when you say, "I did not kill my wife. I did not murder my wife.
>> I cried earlier and I will cry for a long time after this."
>> Okay, >> I'm not crying.
>> Okay, that's perfect. I did not murder my wife.
>> Okay. Every evidence shows, all the evidence shows that you murdered your wife, sir. There is not a single There is not a single mark around your socalled rope, string, little string that possibly could have ripped whenever she was going there. At the moment that you pushed back and you hit her with your head, you had won, sir. You could have ran away. But no, you continued.
You continue to fight for your life on this woman that's half of your size and you strangled her. Do you know, sir, how long it takes to deprive oxygen to the brain. I can choke you out in 15 to 30 seconds. But if I keep continuing and just cinching down and letting that hatred out on you, it's going to take me a good 3 to 5 minutes before you are completely dead. In those 15 to 30 seconds, you are knocked out. Your body cannot move. Your body will not function.
So you're going to tell me in 15 30 seconds or a minute? I'll give you two minutes. You did not do her body.
>> How long was >> So I held her body for 5 minutes for this woman that I love. This woman that I love.
>> You yell at me and attack me all you want to.
>> So give me the facts.
>> Change anything.
>> Give me the evidence. What evidence?
>> I don't have evidence for you. What evidence could I possibly have?
Okay.
>> Okay. Now, if you have all this evidence that I killed my wife intentionally instead of trying to save myself in a desperate situation, then there's no need for any more of this conversation.
And there's definitely no need for you to yell at me and try and get me to change my story and tell me that I've said different things when I haven't.
>> Does it make you uncomfortable that I yell at you?
>> I think it makes everyone uncomfortable.
>> yell at you? Did it make you uncomfortable and yelled at you?
>> Of course.
>> Yeah.
>> Maybe she yelled at you one too many times.
>> Come on. Did she yell when you were choking at her?
>> No, she didn't yell when I was choking her.
>> Why would she tell her co-workers that you never let her speak? That you were controlling about everything. that you were controlling about.
You just proved to me that you were controlling about >> You despise her mother.
>> I don't because her mother laid on the wrong side. You can have her for watching. But guess what, Mr. Kevin wants to attack the mother because the mother wasn't watching.
>> You're putting words into my mouth. I don't >> You said it so yourself, sir. I said that she could have killed myself.
>> From my perspective, that she didn't in the future.
>> My perspective, you gave her another chance. In the second chance, you became aggravated and you told >> No, I told her immediately after the first time I wasn't aggravated, I was distressed.
>> Okay.
>> Was quite aggravated.
>> You called it distress. I called aggravated.
>> I think they mean very different things.
>> Yeah. So, let's talk about the facts.
I just murdered my wife. I go back inside and I take a shower.
I jump right in the shower.
>> Slash bath.
>> I jump in the bath.
>> It was the best comfort I could find.
>> What about your son? While his mom while his dead mom lays on the cold ground.
What about comforting your son? My mother was comforting my son and my father was on the phone with the police.
That's why I was able to go and process.
>> I still I still think that's selfish. I still think that's selfish.
>> You can call me selfish.
>> He'll never have his mom again.
>> I wish that that weren't the case.
>> Because of you.
>> Technically because of you. He'll never have his mom more deeply.
>> That sucks.
>> Because of her.
>> No, because of you. She didn't strangle herself. You told us you strangled her >> because of you.
>> You want to?
>> No, that's the truth.
>> You told us that already.
>> Listen.
>> Are you ready to face? Are you ready to face your son and look him in the eyes and tell him you murdered his mom?
>> Of course not. Because I didn't murder her. Yes, you did.
>> I'm not going to tell him that I had anything to do with her demise.
>> You're a [ __ ] coward, man. You're a coward. If you can't because it's the truth.
>> Maybe he already knows >> because I won't tell my four-year-old son what happened this time.
>> Maybe he already knows what happened.
>> That's probably that's probably only man up in faith. Man up and telling the truth. So hopefully one day he he may develop some dignity and respect and pride for you. Still >> keep attacking me, sir. I have >> I'm not attacking you, man. I'm telling you the truth.
>> You're not telling any kind of truth.
You strangled the woman you love in your front yard where eventually your son had to walk out of.
Go talk to my son. Talk to him as many times as you want to.
Talk to me as many times as you want to.
Change up your version of what I said.
As many times as you want.
>> You're changing your version.
>> I haven't changed my mind. This morning we started off with this morning she came and woke me up. I usually make breakfast but for some reason I didn't decide even though she was bringing friendly and gave me a hug. We went out second time she woke me up. I went to the bathroom. I went to the living room and I got on the inversion table. Well, what [ __ ] time did you get up? I don't know. I've done four things. Maybe I'll check the clock. Maybe I won't. Who knows?
>> Why would I? At none of those point in times did you ever check on did you ever say anything about are you sure >> you don't >> was going about our usual routine.
>> How do you know that way? Because he didn't come out if he was awake. He >> I have a three-year-old son that sometimes sits on his bed and plays with his toys.
>> I know your son. I know my son. He would have immediately came out if he had woken up. He didn't wake up until there was no one in the house, which is why he was crying.
>> Maybe you overwhelm your son sometimes, sir. Maybe you don't give him enough personal space. Maybe you don't let your son grow up.
I think my son's growing up quite fast.
>> He is very, very smart.
Very, very smart kid. Beautiful kid.
Good-look kid.
5 6 7 8 9 10.
You're going to be thinking, "Where the hell is my mom?"
He's going to be thinking that today.
>> The last thing he thought about was planting flowers with mommy.
He told me that himself.
He remembers going on a walk with daddy.
I'm not sure if I'm supposed to respond to that. I have nothing.
>> I'm just telling you what's going on in your kid's mind right now.
>> Okay.
>> I'm just telling you.
>> I'm already worried enough about what's going on in my kid's mind. I'm worried sick about how to handle the situation with my son.
>> That's how you >> I don't think so. I think you already got it covered. You want me to tell you how to handle the situation?
>> Yes. Go ahead.
>> All right. So, I got some questions about the shed.
>> The step ladder that was in the shed.
>> Mhm.
>> You know, you said that's not that's normally not in there.
>> Mhm.
>> So, uh you placed that in there?
>> No.
>> Who placed that in there?
>> I assume my wife did.
>> Your wife wasn't home.
When are you talking about?
>> When are you talking about?
>> I told you that a couple days ago they transplanted tomatoes and I think it was yesterday.
>> When your wife is never home. You said that yourself. She won't take time off.
>> She's been coming home. I also said that she has been coming home >> and she did those things with him. If himself told you that they planted flowers, it's going to be a little hard to argue about whether or not that happened.
>> Okay.
I assume she put the stool in there to read something that they used for plant for transplanting the tomatoes or for planting the squash.
>> Okay. Was uh what about the strap that's hanging up on the rafter above the door in the shed? Who put that there?
A strap?
>> Yep. Black strap.
What kind of lives?
>> It It kind of resembles like a seat belt, but it has uh like two metal hooks around it. It was tied up above the door.
Maybe my wife put it up there.
That strap was for us to hang a swing from the tree and we didn't use all the straps. Is this the strap? I think >> maybe your wife put it up there. Why would your wife put it up there?
>> I doubt it.
>> If my wife put it up there, it might have something to do with what happened this morning.
>> Or maybe not.
>> How convenient.
>> Why do you think she would put Let me ask you this. And this is not me grilling you or or busting you, busting your chops, man. I and I and and all I'm seeking is an honest sincere answer because it's an honest sincere sincere question. When you think about that strap and what it was intent, what what you guys intended to use it for and the position and location where I just told you where it was. If you think that your wife put it there, why do you think she may have put it there?
either because of this morning or because she planned on hanging something else up there. It's not >> But what would it have what would it what would it have to do with this morning? You know what what in relation to the strap? What what would what do you think she may have intended to do with it this morning?
>> Possibly hang me from it to make me look like I killed myself. So, you believe your wife is physically capable of?
>> I think my wife is physically capable of using tools and leverage and all the things that she uses all the time.
>> And I don't know if that's what she planned on doing with it.
>> She could have planned on doing anything with it. I don't know.
You said it earlier, dead weight. Do you know how heavy dead weight is?
Sir, if you were to be deceased at this moment, it would probably take me and Mr. Dixon there to pick you up of this dead weight. Being that you've claimed that I'm twice my wife's size, you obviously think I weigh a lot more than I do.
And I still don't see the point of your statement.
>> How would your wife hoist you? Use leverage to make it look like you killed yourself.
>> There's a million different ways.
>> That really enlighten me cuz I don't know.
>> Yeah. Find a That was the farthest thing from my mind when I asked you that question.
>> That's the first thing that popped into my head when you said there was a big strap hanging from the raptors in the shed.
>> Well, I mean, it's it's it's it's an article that we found at the crime scene. So, I it's it's not unusual for me to ask you about items that we found at the crime scene. I didn't say it was unusual, >> but I mean that I wasn't that I wasn't thinking along those lines based on your answer.
>> Well, she planned on using it for something. I don't think we're ever going to get the chance to ask her.
You may >> because I kill my wife in self-defense because my wife is dead.
I did not murder my wife.
You took the woman's life. That is murder. Sir, >> I did take her life.
That is murder in itself.
>> So what happened with the stool?
>> Did anything happen with the stool inside?
>> I don't even Did you step on a stool afterwards?
>> Did you step on the stool at any point in time while you inside the shed?
>> I did not step on the stool.
>> Okay. What if I told you we found a bare footprint on it that probably has my bare footprints all over it? Cuz I'm always barefooted.
>> But you said you didn't know the stool was in there.
>> I use it in the house. I take it outside to use it for other things. I are the people who primarily use it. My fingerprints are definitely all over it, too. coming from a >> there's so much dust in that place and you can see obviously the bird put on it fresh just like that strap was fresh that was hanging from the rafters.
>> If I have a fresh footprint on that stool then that happened a couple days ago and that's about as fresh as it is.
>> So, uh let me ask you this.
um you've sustained some injuries from this incident and your wife has um sustained some injuries and you know there's DNA.
What makes you certain that uh we may not find your DNA or your wife's DNA on that strap?
>> Both of our DNA is on it and so is our sons.
>> Should it be blood though?
I don't think so. Unless one of us had a cut on our fingers when we were putting the swim in.
>> Well, you got um abrasions on your hands and spray marks on your neck which could have drawn, but >> I don't understand what your question is.
>> My question is your DNA. Is there a possibility that we're going to find your DNA? And when I say DNA, I mean blood on that strap or your wife's blood >> on the strap that's hanging from the rafters.
>> Yes.
>> It's possible you could find blood from either of the three of us on there.
>> Why would Why would your son's blood be on there?
>> He could have had a cut on his finger when he was touching it. You might find blood from our dog or our two cats on it. I don't think you're going to find blood specifically from anybody on it, but I I have no idea what's on that strap.
The three of us used the straps to hang the swing that's in the front of your leg.
>> So, is she home or is she not home? Cuz now I'm confused. We're putting up swings. We're moving We're moving stools around. We've been arguing that she hasn't been home.
We've got divorce papers. Oh, and by the way, we haven't been sexually active for several years.
>> We don't have divorce papers. We have a relationship agreement.
>> Did she not serve you papers several days ago?
>> No.
>> No. Okay.
>> We actually backed off of divorce and talked about separation. And then we backed off of separation and talked about staying in.
>> Separation, divorce, same thing. We're not sleeping in the same room.
different.
>> Our wedding vows have totally changed.
The same vows that we said to each other that we shall love each other until death do us part. Guess what? Death did do us apart. Right? You stab you stood in front of her and said these vows to her. The same vows where I believe you guys did this separation agreement on.
Is that not the same piece of paper when there's some vows written on it?
>> We never made a separation agreement. We never agreed on anything and we didn't tell each other about >> it wasn't suitable for Kevin. It wasn't suitable for Kevin.
>> Keep pitching whatever you got at me, man. I just do your job. Do it well. I have nothing else.
>> You sit here and you talk, but Kevin is very, very, very, very controlling. And if things don't go the way Kevin wants them to go, Kevin takes action.
>> Everyone's controlling to some degree.
Everyone wants >> absolutely >> to control >> absolutely >> some aspects of their lives.
>> I am not very control.
>> And you took control your marriage by silencing your wife forever.
>> No, I did not.
>> You did not.
She can't defend for herself. She can't talk to us anymore.
Would you be willing to give us a DNA sample?
>> What's What's in the code?
>> My saliva is on the >> Well, no. I mean, not not in not in that not in that uh uh form. Uh we would have our crime scene technician come in and take a vehicle swab and you would sign a consent form. Would you be willing to do that?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. We'll get my DNA is all over everything.
I don't really.
>> Yes.
>> Would you be willing to give us consent to search your cell phone?
>> To search my cell phone?
>> Yeah.
>> Why would I do that?
>> Why wouldn't you?
>> Why wouldn't you want us to do that?
Because honestly, you're you're you're you're talking to investigators about the murder of your wife. And just like it's our job to to to determine if there was any malicious intent, it's also our job to exonerate you as well. Bring it in here and I will unlock it for you and then I'll sign a piece of paper telling you to snoop around on it.
>> Why would you want to unlock it first?
>> Cuz it is locked.
>> Okay, we got ways around that.
>> Oh, well then you don't need me.
>> Or you can tell you could tell your consent. It's your phone. You can tell us the passcode and assign the consent form and we'll we'll search it.
Listen, I don't know what else to say to you guys.
I'm very tired. I'm I'm done for now. I just really have >> You keep saying tired. Why are you tired?
What's the pass code here for the pattern?
>> Pattern.
We'll wait until the bracelet come back.
All right. So, let's take a break from the the questions for now.
>> What I need is to take a real break, please.
>> Hey, massage.
What do you mean by a real break?
>> One more for DNA.
>> One more I can rest.
>> You can rest. Sir, you just murdered your wife. You think we're going to let you go home?
>> You're being temporarily detained for the murder of your wife?
>> Did not murder my wife and I didn't say anything about going home.
You're going to let me go home whenever you run into her.
>> You're tired because you used all your energy on your wife, strangling her.
You know, a lot of the things that you're trying to say to get a rise out of you to say something that's different are actually quite cruel.
>> Absolutely. Because Kevin is controlling. Kevin manipulates his way around people. And Kevin likes to change words on people.
>> I didn't change any words.
Just dwell on the moment that you murdered your wife.
I'm I'm very passionate about this kind of stuff, man. And u I understand people go through stuff.
Everybody has problems. Everybody marriage marriage is a work in progress.
It's a it's a marathon.
and two people come together and make that decision to take that marathon through life together through ups and downs.
Having kids can can be a can be a challenge for a lot of people, especially women.
They go through so much with just trying to bring that child to life into this world. They go through many insecurities like you said where they're trying to decide if am I fit to be the mother that this child needs? Am I inadequate? You know, these are questions that a lot of women ask. And you know, the amazing part about your situation is you chose to be there for your son in a time that according to, you know, some things that you observed, his mom wasn't ready for it. And I commend you for that. I really do. Sincerely, I'm a father myself, so I understand what it what it's like to have love for your children.
I understand what it's like to have that protective instinct not to want to put your kids in a dangerous situation, whether that person intends to be dangerous towards a child or not. an example of the situation with his grandmother. I'm pretty sure she loves your son, but sometimes people just don't have that parenting gene to make wise decisions. So, I can I totally get why you got upset back then. And that was back then. This is now.
I really feel that everything that transpired this morning was much deeper than than than what's on the surface.
There's got there's got to be I mean there's you got to tell me something that that she for the past couple days you said everything was okay. She wasn't well, but it was okay. It was you guys were getting along pretty much. Am I accurate in that? much more than we have been for a long time.
>> So the the understanding that I need from you, Kevin, is based on what you're telling me, what could have possibly changed or or or or transpired in your wife's mind to make her just all of a sudden decide, I'm going to kill Kevin today.
I don't know what was inside of her mind.
Did y'all get a new life insurance policy or something recently?
No. And is it is it is it the the the boyfriend that that she told you about or things getting serious between them?
>> I wanted her to find someone she could have a relationship with. She wasn't having it with me. I honestly wanted her to be happy. If it would have made her happy to have a relationship with someone, I wanted that. I suggested it to her back in gold head.
And she never told you who this other person was.
>> No.
>> Was there anybody else that you were talking to that she may have found out about and may perhaps made her jealous?
>> No.
I had >> No. No. She didn't know or know you wasn't talking to anyone else. I wasn't talking to anybody about a year ago.
I'm sorry.
Go ahead. About a year ago, I was talking to somebody, a friend, an old friend, but it was never going to go anywhere.
And that's been long since done. And this friend was from Florida or another state?
>> She lives in Georgia.
>> Georgia.
Did uh did your wife know about her? No.
>> No, she did not.
Kevin, what's your home address?
Sure.
Have a seat. So if you were given the opportunity to say anything to your son, what would you say?
Is it only a one-way conversation?
Then I would say have fun with grandma and grandpa.
Good night and I love you.
Have sweet dreams and I'll see you soon.
Well, considering everything that's going on, I will try the best in my power to communicate that message to your son just the way you just said it.
>> I don't know if that's going to be worse or not.
You also got to remember everything we've said in here is recorded.
So he can hear it in your voice.
>> That's good.
>> Well, we're going to uh I'm going to work on trying to get some arrangements made or made for you to have the things that you need to get some sleep. And uh we'll take a break from this today. There's still a lot more that we probably need to discuss.
Can I go to the bathroom?
>> Just one second. All right.
All right. Come on. Stay up for a minute. Okay. All right, this made that All right.
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