Wandile Mlaba Interview | Junior Bok World Champion & Stormers Rising Star🇿🇦🏉

Added: 2026-05-27

[00:00:00]the pitch, my brother.

[00:00:01]>> Amna, welcome to Off the Pitch, my brother.

[00:00:03]>> Thanks for having me, bro.

[00:00:05]>> I'm I'm excited to hear your story, man.

[00:00:06]I'm I'm excited to share it to to everybody else. I just wanted to know when when did rugby all start for you?

[00:00:11]>> Um, that's a good question. It actually started for me, I'd say like early primary school. I had a friend of mine, I went to a school called Amansami Primary School. It's like in the south coast of Karen. And um yeah, I know I had a good time there. Obviously grew up there. Um, but I started off playing football because, you know, you just play sports at break and at that school in particular, football was more popular than rugby at the time. Um, so yeah, I was playing football. I loved it.

[00:00:42]Enjoyed it. And then I had a friend of mine, chubbish guy at the time, but he like you could tell he had like the proper build for a rugby player. I know it's like grade four, but proper build for a rugby player. His name was his name was Retang, and he was Yeah. He was passionate about rugby. So he asked me to come play for there's like a club team. So it wasn't related to the school at all, like a club team down in Toi. And he had asked me to come join him there cuz he saw I was quite quick obviously playing football. So I went whatever took a chance in it, played um and yeah, I mean from the first time I I realized I was quite good at it, you know, I was just easy to like evade people. It was fun.

[00:01:23]So I enjoyed it from then on. But then obviously it was like a bit of a a struggle transitioning to it cuz my parents didn't like it at all. They didn't like how violent it was. So they were like, "Yeah, no, rather play the soccer, rather stick to your roots." But I was like, "Nah, like I'm I'm confident. This is it for me."

[00:01:42]>> And uh was that uh like you say, you played football and uh in your primary school days, was that the only sport you played uh while you were young?

[00:01:52]Yeah. So, I'd say early early on I played football only, but then obviously as you get older, you try things. So, I ended up playing cricket as well. I was quite good at that. I did. Athletics, also quite good at that. And then obviously rugby. I'd say those are the three, you could even say four things that I sort of excelled in in my youth.

[00:02:14]>> And growing up and stuff, obviously you played football. Who who was your idol growing up? might be a footballer or even a rugby player. But who who was your idol growing up?

[00:02:24]>> I'd say I'll stick to rugby. So definitely for me at that time at that age as well. Um I'd say Brian Abana.

[00:02:33]>> Brian Abana was quality.

[00:02:36]>> He was influential for me though. I mean you know that dive of his so that was iconic.

[00:02:41]>> Yeah it's iconic isn't I whenever I played at the time when I was young, I mean there weren't really positions back then. I'd always try to emulate that, you know, break the line, dive in, score.

[00:02:54]>> That's why I like sort of found the love for the game, I'd say.

[00:02:59]>> Hey, he's he's an icon, man. He's he's a proper icon for for South African rugby.

[00:03:04]Legend.

[00:03:05]>> But but you know what's crazy, bro? I actually went to Mams and Tote as of primary school.

[00:03:12]>> You're lying, bro.

[00:03:14]>> I swear to swear, bro.

[00:03:18]But I was only there for until grade two or grade grade one or grade two and then I went to Jo.

[00:03:26]That's mental, bro. I would have never still now to this day. I think I've got about five friends that um I met at the school whilst I was there, but since then I haven't met anyone else that's been to the school or had any sort of association with the school since I've left.

[00:03:44]>> That's crazy. It's crazy. That's mental.

[00:03:46]>> Yeah, I know. That's madness, bro.

[00:03:50]>> But that's that's a small world things.

[00:03:54]But yeah, you you also attended Marco House and and present represented Ker at me.

[00:04:02]Yeah.

[00:04:03]>> What are you saying, bro?

[00:04:05]>> No, no, sorry. I think you just cut a bit.

[00:04:08]>> Yeah, it's a bit laggy.

[00:04:09]>> It's all good. I can hear you.

[00:04:10]>> But I was saying uh you went to to Michael House and uh you attended Craven Week.

[00:04:15]>> What would you say the the biggest like challenge was um going from obviously school boy to to Craven Week?

[00:04:23]So I think or even even the transition to Mulas I'd say for me was it was very different to what I had expected because like I said being at toti so I I grew up sort of watching Glennwood Glenwood High School and at the time they were like a proper powerhouse so I had grown up thinking that I was going to go there I mean my older brother went there he played cricket but still you know so it was sort of in the family to go to Glenwood Um, and yeah, like I said, they were they were crazy at rugby. So then I ended up going to my class. And at the time, they weren't so much like the rugby culture was there, but it wasn't what it was at, you know, your public schools like a Westville, a Glennwood, a Northwood even. So when we were there, I sort of like developed the like a underdog mentality if I can say. And we played grade 8, grade nine, not doing too well. And then it was that time, I think it was like end of grade nine, start of grade 10 when there was a bit of break in all sports because of um the corona virus.

[00:05:33]>> So it was sort of through that period when >> yeah, >> we sort of like made a collective decision. That's this is the guys in like my grade now, my year. We were like, "Okay, listen. Like, we're tired of this." Like, you know, going out every weekend, losing, just, you know, not enjoying it as much as we could be.

[00:05:49]I mean, there's a bunch of talented guys in the >> like that whole stigma of being in a private school. You, you know, not as good at rugby or anything to do with like physical attributes. We didn't like that. So, during that period, we used to like play touch all the time. I know because we obviously like in a sort of like a gated community there. We're sort of like far away from everything else.

[00:06:14]Like during Corona virus and all that stuff, we actually stayed at school and they would just monitor who goes in and out. So in that obviously we weren't exposed as much as other people. So we would have like run rugby training sessions and stuff just waiting for this whole thing to calm down and like make sure that we're ready for when we are able to play again. And I think that little period was like the big difference between us before and where my class is now. I mean, you can see the other day they beat Afies, which is crazy. But I think that whole rugby culture just it grew from >> it grew a lot from when I first got there towards like the end of my time.

[00:06:53]Um, but yeah, it is it was sick. It was insane. I mean, you stay at school because it's like a termly boarding institution. So, you stay at school like 70% of the year. you're just connecting with the guys around you, enjoying your sport, enjoying the rugby. It's it was proper, bro. I really enjoyed it. Um, and then obviously playing Craven Week, the biggest difference for me also at the time, it wasn't like it wasn't really popular. It wasn't really known for guys from my school to make the Craven team. I think I was the first one to make it >> in like four, five, six years at the time.

[00:07:30]>> Yeah. So it is it was crazy. It was just what an experience. It was surreal. But I think at that age cuz I was in grade 11 when I made it.

[00:07:40]>> Um at that age I didn't fully take it in like I was sort of just there like experiencing it.

[00:07:47]>> I had one or two good games. It was nice and all.

[00:07:50]>> Um but I was really excited for my metric. My metric I was thinking okay listen like I've had a taste of this now. I want to go out there and kill it.

[00:07:58]But then unfortunately the la literally the last game of our like school calendar last game of our like our fixture against or second to last was against Westful. I tore my LCL's and I didn't get to play in Madrid which was yeah a big blow for me but >> also in that I mean I had a lot of learnings a lot of lessons that I learned just sitting there waiting you know you get to introspect and just think about things you could have done differently what you want to do when you come back so that was also I think played a big role in my journey so far >> and when was the moment where you thought yo I could actually I could actually make this like a real thing I can do this professionally.

[00:08:41]>> Yeah, I'd say like I said that grade 11 year I went I sort of got a taste of everything. You play against a couple of the guys from the other provinces, see how good they are. Um I made the SA schools a team in grade 11 as well. And even with that, you know, you sort of just get a taste of it. So when I started in my metric, I was thinking, yeah, listen, like I want to take over everything. I want to go make all the teams. I want to just go crazy. And everything was going to plan.

[00:09:12]Like that year we I mean we were basically unbeaten. We play Hilton College. They are rivals twice.

[00:09:18]>> So we lost them once, beat them once.

[00:09:21]But besides that, we were unbeaten that year. So I mean >> everything was going well. And that's when I was like, you know what? I think >> I could really make something out of this. Um I'd always enjoyed it. Like even if I hadn't been playing well, I think I still would have went for it just cuz I love it so much. But at the time, I just think it was Yeah.

[00:09:40]Everything was going to plan. Like I said, everything was just clicking. So I had no choice but to go for it. I loved it.

[00:09:47]>> And uh when your mate brought you into the rugby space, what what sort of positions were you playing at first?

[00:09:53]Because now you're obviously loose loose forward. Um >> but like what sort of positions did you test out before moving there?

[00:10:03]So at the time I think oh you know when you like young bro everything's unstructured still playing like bare still playing barefoot. So at the time I'd always hang around on the wings. Um so I guess you could say I was more of like a backline player just waiting to get the ball and then I'd you know carve through everyone once I get it there. Um funny enough though it was grade six and you know how you have like your provincial trials um when you're young. grade seven, grade six.

[00:10:33]>> So, grade six I was playing I think center at the time for the school team and then a coach of mine, he went to Glennwood. He coached at Glenwood Prep and just a good coach. But he came to me and he was like, "Yo, listen, we're going to move you." And I was like, "Whoa, what's going on now?"

[00:10:51]>> Like, this is my whole thing. You know what I mean? Get the ball in the back line. Just have fun from there.

[00:10:56]>> Yeah.

[00:10:56]>> He's like, "We're going to move you. We want you to move to lose forward." And like I said, at the time it wasn't a popular position as well. You're in grade six. So for me, it was like like, you know, do I really want to listen to this guy? Is it one of those things where you have to go against the coach and just back your own talent? But he's like, trust me, we're going to move you here and see what it does for you.

[00:11:17]There's trials coming up. Just go play this um play this position obviously.

[00:11:23]Just give your best and I promise you, you won't regret it.

[00:11:29]And now we here, bro.

[00:11:31]>> Now we here, bro. Mentor. I still >> shout out to coach.

[00:11:35]>> Mr. Bka. Still speak to him to this day, bro.

[00:11:39]>> Shout out to him, bro. He saw something something special.

[00:11:43]>> Yo, something no one saw, bro.

[00:11:47]>> Well, that's the beauty of it. You know, sometimes might not be your plan, but you know, if someone like assists you and and and helps you on your path and then it magic happens, I suppose, >> bro, it's it's the craziest thing ever, like when you look back at everything. I mean, sometimes you think like, how did that work out the way it did? But it's all for the better. You just have to trust the process.

[00:12:12]>> Exactly, man. And you at the Stormers now, man. You're doing flipping crazy things now, man. But speak to us about the Stormer setup, bro. There's world class players everywhere you look.

[00:12:26]How's that environment and and you know, what's it like learning of of those big, you know, personalities?

[00:12:35]>> Yeah. I think when you especially for me um so it's like it was a quite a big move for me leaving cuz obviously when you're in Keren um everything you do is sort of like associated with the sharks.

[00:12:50]So I'd known quite a couple of people from the sharks. I was sort of comfortable in that environment. Um it was nice. I enjoyed it. Um, but then I thought, yeah, I need to take a chance.

[00:13:00]That's why I'd wanted to actually go to Western Province. And everything worked out. I end up there. And like you said, there's just crazy names like, you know what I mean? Just Spring after Spring, walking through the halls, >> sharing the gym, the gym with you. So, it's it was mental. I mean, when I first got there, I definitely was a bit starruck. And you just you sort of like just want to watch where you're walking.

[00:13:23]You don't want to piss anyone off. Um, sort of just minding your own. Yeah, you don't really socialize too much. But then I'd say towards the end of that year, it's when I like properly I'd say got comfortable, you know, started speaking to more of the senior players.

[00:13:40]Um, particularly after I got picked for the first junior book camp. That was in my first year, so 2024.

[00:13:47]>> Yeah, I just thought sort of thought, yeah, listen, like if you just wait there and sit there, nothing's going to come to you. You sort of have to go grab it. So that's when I started venturing out more um asking more questions you know just learning more but it's it's crazy bro I mean from then to now like the amount of learning you can pick up just from checking into the HBC like on a daily basis just like the little conversations you have they can be so like so knowledgeable and just so like yeah you know just so good for you so benefiting so it's good >> yeah of course It's proper. It's competitive.

[00:14:27]You can tell everyone there is like on a mission. You know what I mean?

[00:14:31]>> Yeah. Same same goal.

[00:14:32]>> See how the team Exactly. You can just tell by the way they play for each other now looking at the Stormers. I mean, the intensity, the sort of like the unity like everyone's just on one page, you know? It's proper, bro. And obviously you, like you said, it was a big adjustment, but when you arrived there, was was there anyone you were surprised by by how good they actually were?

[00:14:59]>> When I first got there, when I first got there, this guy wasn't he wasn't actually playing in the Stormer team, but I'd say he was sort of a senior because he captained our junior team. But Paul Devil, >> so Paul, he's also making moves.

[00:15:17]>> Yeah.

[00:15:18]No, bro. In terms of like like the nitty-gritty, like the the things that no one else sees, like you know, getting around the park, your breakdown work, your just like your dog.

[00:15:33]>> No, he's he was different level like you could see it in training as well. And I think he definitely helped me up my game as well because I'd look at him and I'd be like, "Okay, like sort of like comparing myself with him now." And I'm like, "Okay, this is when I can this is where I can sort of grow my game and do better. This is what I'm sort of good at. So I need to like strengthen that even more like use it as my X factor."

[00:15:57]But like there's like even from him like he was such a good captain, good leader.

[00:16:00]like he genuinely like I know everyone says this but like he genuinely led by example like every single training session you know what I mean gets the job done goes back recovers well comes back the next day again just quality quality quality so I'm definitely learning from guys like that even now >> that's good man he's also he's also doing wonderful things uh for the Stormers now in the first team so hopefully you can learn a bit off there and you know improve your game and you'll get your chance. You know what I mean?

[00:16:33]>> 100% bro. 100%.

[00:16:35]>> But um you know Sio Kissi is coming back to the Stormers. Um I'm sure you excited cuz that's also another uh big personality you can learn from and and and try and improve your game. So how excited are you for him to to be back there?

[00:16:51]>> Yeah, I mean I think he's he plays my position as well. So it's it's going to be it's going to be interesting. You're obviously like extremely excited to to learn from him. I mean, the wisdom that he has to pass down.

[00:17:06]Two time, you know, world champ.

[00:17:09]How many caps now for the spring box?

[00:17:12]Way too many.

[00:17:13]>> That's crazy.

[00:17:14]>> Been at the Stormers. He's been at the Stormers. He's been in Europe. He's played almost everywhere, bro. Like, you can genuinely just spending time with them, you're like bound to learn a lot about yourself, about the game. So, I'm really excited for that. I'm excited to test myself against obviously guys of his caliber as well because every day you train and it's an opportunity to, you know, show yourself, showcase your talent to the coaches. So, that's going to be I'm really looking forward to it.

[00:17:44]>> And, uh, while while growing up, obviously, you've had to, you know, come up against, uh, you know, big talents yourself. Um, >> but how important is it to actually test yourself against the best? Because, you know, some guys, they don't enjoy it and they don't like look forward to that sort of thing. But in other guys, they they look forward to those moments so that they they can better themselves.

[00:18:07]>> Yeah. But I think the main thing or the way I like to look at it um it's you know the people you surround yourself with sort of what shapes your future like in in all aspects of life whether you're in business whether it's just your friend group and how they act whether it's you know in the sporting field the sporting space you want to be rubbing shoulders with the guys who have done the things that you want to go on and achieve. So, um, that's obviously the environment that, you know, it's the most, >> how can I put it? It's the most pressured. It's the most enticing. It's where you learn the most. And, you know, those like interactions where it's like it's now it's you or him and you know, the coaches are there, they're looking.

[00:18:54]That's where you sort of prove yourself.

[00:18:56]That's where you show that you know they can trust me. I can do it on a senior stage for them if need be. So that's where you want to be ultimately. I mean, if you have any goal of, you know, playing at the top level, going even further, representing your country, then that's that is where you want to be. That's when you want to spend the most time, >> you know.

[00:19:17]>> Yeah, of course.

[00:19:18]>> That's what I think it is for me. You have to love those moments, bro. The pressure if you I mean, a lot of guys struggle with it. Even myself at times.

[00:19:26]Sometimes I'm like, yo, like you know, you come into a day and you're like you're a bit demotivated, but then you quickly have to realize that this is what you want to do. And it's that simple.

[00:19:38]>> If you don't want it, then there's no need to do it. But if if this is what you want, if this is what you've been building up to living for, then yeah, just have to go after it.

[00:19:49]>> And now moving on to your your Varsity Cup campaign, you obviously play paid for AK Tigers. Um, what did you say that that taught you >> playing there and and experiencing that that sort of, you know, level of rugby?

[00:20:04]>> Yeah. So, I think Varsity Cup is it's such an I wouldn't say underrated anymore, but I think it gets its flowers. Such a such a good competition to to go test yourself. I want to say it's sort of like a little bit of a taste of senior rugby before you actually get to play some because the guys involved in that I mean at the time I don't know if it's changed now but at the time you could have guys who are 25 playing in a varsity cup team and so I'm fresh out of school now >> I'm training with some guys who've played Curry Cup now and then you get a guy who's played senior rugby even for like a union like the Bulls Stormers whatever the case is and you've seen so many guys go play varsity cup and then make their way and play senior rugby elsewhere. But that just shows you like the amount of quality that's in that competition. So for me it was it was proper it was like a real eye opener actually. It was yo it was mental bro like the collision >> and how important the sorry I was saying I was saying yeah like the collisions you get into the speed of the game it's all like just a little notch higher a lot actually higher than in school boy rugby so it's it's good it was proper >> now that's also I like I enjoy watching that competition it's it's quite exciting lots of talent on show as all So yeah, >> true.

[00:21:29]>> But um how important is it to >> how important is it to have your your studying and your rugby all evened out and you know >> Yeah. I think the main thing when it comes to that cuz I can tell you for free like it's it's difficult, bro. It's difficult and the guys who always manage to make it work are the guys who are the most disciplined.

[00:21:56]Um, so I had to learn that obviously as I was going, I didn't think it was going to be as difficult as it was. But I mean at the time, so my in my first year out of school, I was balancing junior box camps, um, obviously your Western Province Rugby under 20, under 21, um, and then Varsity Cup and then your studies. It was it was a mess at first.

[00:22:17]>> Yeah, that's mental.

[00:22:18]>> And you, yeah, you slowly get to grips with it. Um, but yeah, like just advice is obviously get into routine early. If I like if I could go back and do anything differently, I would sort of set out my goals, plan everything like genuinely as far ahead as possible and then just try to stick to that slowly knocking things down because at the time, like I said, I had so much going on that, you know, some things just fly by, assignment dates fly by you, and you're like, "Oh, snap." Like, I need to get to that. I'm so busy >> busy worrying about camp coming in two weeks that I need to get time down and I'm not even focusing on that.

[00:22:57]>> So yeah, I think just plan ahead and stay disciplined.

[00:23:02]>> Of course, man. And you speak about planning and and and goals and like aspirations. Um >> in five to 10 years time, where where would you want to see yourself?

[00:23:13]>> Um that's a that's a good question. And I think I mean up until now I've sort of set out goals for myself every year and if not matched them I've actually exceeded them. So I didn't think like the Stormers Cap I didn't think I was going to get that maybe until end of this year if not start of next year hopefully. And you know I got that earlier. Um junior box camp I didn't think I was going to get that until my second year. I managed to make my debut in my first year as well. So, it's I think it's important to like sort of set out goals for yourself and then you can have something tangible that you can just grind out for every every week, week in week out. But I think for me now where I am um my main goal would be to obviously play some more URC games.

[00:24:03]>> Um just make myself like a prominent figure in that Stormers team, >> play more consistently. That's what I'm sort of striving to achieve. So, you know, just getting the getting some more trust from the coaches and just proving myself in that regard. Yeah, it's definitely my goal.

[00:24:20]>> Of course, man. Um, you know, just moving to your your junior book campaign. This is this is a special one.

[00:24:26]Um, >> yeah, >> Junior World Cup. Talk me through that.

[00:24:30]I mean, that team was special, man. You had the likes of B, Hashim, yourself, as well. Oh, bro. The names are just everywhere. But how how special was that team?

[00:24:45]>> Yeah, bro. I think the most important thing about that team, similar to like I said before with the Stormers, is that everyone was on the same page. Um, I remember earlier was quite interesting.

[00:24:59]We talk about like pressure environments. I remember we had played the TRC. So that's like the tri nations competition in the one that the junior box just won now actually.

[00:25:09]>> Yeah, >> we had played that um sort of yeah won a couple of games but I think we had won one out of three and just lost out to the title to New Zealand.

[00:25:22]And so the group that we had at the time received a lot of criticism um going into the World Cup and we had I think two or so training camps after that where y the coaches pushed us here cuz I mean I think the junior teams at the time there was this weird thing that they weren't where they were supposed to be cuz obviously you see how well the spring box were doing >> and we hadn't won a World Cup in I think 12 or so years >> from prior to last year. So there was like a real belief in the group that yeah like we the ones who can change this and I remember we actually had a talk um it was at SAS and we had like sat down I think it was like a week before we were about to leave for the the World Cup and we were just speaking about how like we genuinely need to realize how privileged we are to be in this position. This is the whole group now.

[00:26:11]Like the team just sat down and we're talking about this and we were like, "Yeah, like if we can go to this competition, genuinely just give it everything like play for each other. Like this can change not even some of us but all of our lives. Like this can genuinely put your career, you know, just catapult in the right direction." And I mean, you look fast forward now, a couple of weeks later, how many of us have made our senior debuts? A couple of guys in Springbook alignment camp. So, it's it's just mental, bro. It's mental.

[00:26:43]>> And now, like you say, some of them have made the the Spring Bark alignment camp.

[00:26:48]Um, but how how much does that actually motivate you, you know, because you know, you're seeing your mates there, um, you know, joining the camps and stuff. So, how much does it actually like motivate yourself?

[00:27:00]>> So much, bro. I mean, you can ask anyone that plays the game um, and just loves the game. like that's that's probably your dream to represent your country and I mean you see guys that you've been rubbing shoulders with doing it. Um I mean there's so many stories of people we'll say not being in the spotlight and then making it to that level but like to have guys that you were just in a team with now obviously getting that recognition and making it it's really inspiring and it just shows you that everything's sort of just like a grips length away you know everything's sort of right there. You just have to put in that work and just go get it.

[00:27:42]>> And speak to us about the the setups and the tactics uh for the the junior box. I mean, a lot of people don't see it, but you know, a lot of like analyzing and and tactics still go into into those sort of games.

[00:27:56]>> Yeah. So, I can speak on was quite interesting actually. We so like I said after that TRC we went back had a couple of camps and you know I think the coaches really hit the drawing boards but one of the main or like a highlight of something tactical that was changed from us going into the World Cup was if you had watched our games in the TRC specifically when we played New Zealand they were so good technically in how they attacked like balls out the back um pulling being late, sort of taking it up to the line and then releasing the ball out the back. And we sort of just didn't know how to handle it at the time. And our coach actually put it to us in a like perfectly. He created a perfect analogy of how in South Africa like obviously the main strength and the main like culture of our rugby, you know, the physicality and how we just want to like physically impose ourselves in our opponents. So when you're in high school, no one's going to be pulling the ball out the back and spreading it first phase in their 22, you know, spreading it wide and trying to attack you like that. So we just weren't exposed to that stuff. And so in those two camps that we went to, um, we really like hammered that down hard, how to be able to defend that. Yes, you can want to smash a guy and like press up and you know rush their rush their attack sorry now and then but also if they pulling the ball out the back now what are you going to do like when you need to adapt your game plan midame do we have other resources to use to counter what they're doing and yeah so that's when we started working on our sort of we called it our soft defense where you sort of just usher them to the touch line and you know then hunters a pack like that and if you look at our final when we played them. I mean, every single time they tried that stuff, it sort of worked against against them because we had now learned how to defend their moves, their set plays, and we just sort of just hunt them down nicely as a group. That's all credit to the coach cuz that was literally just a tactical change that he made. Um, and we obviously just listened to him, believed in what he was saying, obviously trusted the process and it worked out for the better.

[00:30:14]And when representing the junior boxer, would you say you felt pressure um even at junior level?

[00:30:23]>> Yeah, I think I think there's a lot of pressure.

[00:30:27]Obviously, you representing your country, I think no matter what sport, what field, what aspect it is, representing your country, there's always so much pressure because, you know, we're such a proud nation. and you just want to do the country well, make everyone who's at home proud. Um, so there was a lot of pressure in that regard. I mean, we had heard the stats about how no one had won the competition in 12 years and, you know, you automatically put it upon yourself to, you know, want to change that. So, I think we had sort of we sort of blocked out the noise from everywhere else, the social media, and we actually put pressure on ourselves because we said, "Do you just want to be another team that comes and goes past or, you know, do you want to have that sort of spot in history?" You guys put the team back on the map, you put the program back in the right direction. And so yeah, I think we definitely put a lot of pressure on ourselves internally, how we trained and how we showed up every day.

[00:31:29]>> Now, you have to there has to be one scenario at at a training or or or training session where you know fitness has has kicked in and you know the session's been a bit tough. Could you tell me about any any specific moment where you know there was fitness on and it was a bit tough and the yolks were struggling?

[00:31:50]>> Yeah, bro. I could tell you about a few, but um there's one that sticks out in particular and you can ask any of the the forwards from that group. Um so the forward coach at the time was coach Akaman. Um he's the Bulls head coach now. And so he he has a very like interesting unique way of coaching. He's such a good coach by the way, such a good human being as well.

[00:32:15]>> But he has like a very military style way of like you know what I mean? So it's just hard hardcore. He wants to put you through the most. and we had sort of had like I mean all the camps were tough in general um building up to the World Cup but I think it was the last two or so weeks until the actual competition now the teams had been announced and the guys who knew that the guys who were going sorry had been notified it's like we all knew who was going to travel down to Italy for the competition and we had this one day um in Stelenbos that was like sort of our last big forward split before we left and they had sort of like they had sort of put the idea in our heads that it was going to be something chilled, something calm just to get us prepped and oiled before we head on the planes. But that turned into like the biggest I don't even know what you want to call it, bro. It felt like we were in some war environment. Yes.

[00:33:17]Yes. I promise you. Like so you'd have obviously your like normal forward split. you have your your scrums, your malls. Um, in that we had this it's like this sort of wrestling thing. I forgot what he called it, but it's like everyone lines up. So, everyone's in the circle and there's a guy in the middle.

[00:33:36]So, the guy in the middle has to wrestle everyone that's around him before he gets out the circle and then the next guy has to wrestle everyone around him before he >> That's mental.

[00:33:47]>> So, that that's that was part of it. So, we had that. We had like a tackling box.

[00:33:51]We had a a breakdown block again, hitting the deck, cleaning guys off, and then in that as well, we had like this little fitness thing. So, I don't know if you know, what do they call it where So, essentially, what do they call it now? A hanger. The hanger.

[00:34:10]>> You know, where you like to hang your clothes? So, he calls it a hanger. Yeah.

[00:34:14]>> Cuz you start on the try line and you run to each post before coming back to the middle of the field. And it sort of like shapes. It's like the shape of a hanger the way you're running.

[00:34:24]>> I see. Yeah.

[00:34:25]>> So, we had that as at the end of that.

[00:34:28]And what made it interesting is that he'd put someone at the front and you'd be like, "Okay, cool." You'll give them like maybe like a 20 second head start and you have to catch that guy at the front. So, obviously, you can't just cruise when you're running this now. You have to like a goal to catch that guy >> and you'll be like, "If you guys catch him, >> if you guys catch him, we do one less or we do two less or something.

[00:34:50]So you just you're blitzing it, bro. But all that stuff coming down was absolutely insane.

[00:34:57]>> Yeah, fitness wasn't it wasn't my favorite thing in the world, man.

[00:35:02]>> I don't think I think no matter how much prepping you can do for it, bro. It's always going to hit you by surprise, always going to knock you down.

[00:35:11]>> Exactly, bro. But now, speak to us about winning that that Junior World Cup. I mean, that that must have been some feeling.

[00:35:20]Yeah. Jeez.

[00:35:22]It's hard to put into words, bro. I mean, when the I think the most nervous we had ever been, funny enough, was actually the semi-final against Argentina.

[00:35:36]So, I remember the we got brought into the change room was at halftime. We were playing well in the first half, but we sort of like I don't know, we sort of had like cold feet the team because I mean we were winning like keep in mind we were winning the first half. It was sort of like like the road is set. the part was laid for us to walk into the final and we knew we're going to have a tough game in the final but we sort of I think we sort of started overthinking it and we were like gez like like after this it's a final and we sort of weren't even thinking about the game we were playing but we our heads are like in the final already because like I said we hadn't won it in 12 years so it was >> such a big buildup and so much like pressure on us to you know want to do well we don't want to disappoint anyone as well and our coach sort of said to us like Boys, just take every day by day.

[00:36:25]You know what I mean? Like, you're here right now. You played a half of rugby in the semi-final. If you go this next half, stop worrying about everything happening around you. Focus on what we've worked on. Back yourselves, express yourselves, and we'll deal with next week, next week. If that's the case, but if you don't switch on, if you keep doing this, how we had played towards the end of the first half, then there won't even be a next week. We'll all be going home. You know what I mean?

[00:36:50]>> Yeah. Yeah, >> that was a big like wakeup call for us.

[00:36:53]And then obviously we got that job done and went into the final and that like prep week for the final although it's probably like the biggest game of all of our lives at the time. It was so composed. I think everyone again was just locked in. It sort of felt like routine like nothing changed. The way we had been prepping for every single game in the competition leading up to that.

[00:37:16]That's exactly what we did for that final. Um, we're going up against New Zealand again now for the second time.

[00:37:22]Obviously, the first time we played them in the TLC, they beat us, but we had so much confidence that we could get the job done >> come the final. So, that was Yeah, that was crazy to see everyone so locked in and just in Trum.

[00:37:38]>> Well, who would you say your toughest opponent was like in that competition?

[00:37:44]I'd say I'd say New Zealand just because you know like the the magnitude of the rivalry between the two countries.

[00:37:54]>> Yeah, big rivalry. Yeah.

[00:37:56]>> How personal the game would have been.

[00:37:57]Whether that game was our first game in the competition, the final, whether it was a practice match, I think it always would have been a personal game, bro.

[00:38:05]And then it just happened to be the final as well for the World Cup. So, I'd say that was definitely the toughest and I'd say like the most sought after game for us.

[00:38:18]Of course, man. New Zealand and and the Spring Pucks are always uh the big rivalry. Yeah, >> old foe.

[00:38:28]But now obviously you've played the the the junior championship. Um, who would you say the the the toughest opponent was going up against? Obviously you've mentioned the New Zealanders as as your toughest team, but who would you say your toughest opponent would be?

[00:38:48]>> Um, that's a great question, bro. Um, I'd say, you know who I would say is really good in terms of player. Now, if you want me to single out a player, um, against England, um, the English hooker, I think it was, was it was Keu Tupalu, he's playing now at Bath, if I'm not mistaken.

[00:39:12]>> Yeah.

[00:39:12]>> And he's he's like a prominent figure in the main side now. But he was Yeah. He was class. He was He sort of plays like he plays rugby like he's just enjoying it, man. You know what I mean? He's like, >> you don't often find that's how it is, man.

[00:39:27]That's exactly how it should be, bro.

[00:39:29]You don't often find like a a front rower grabbering the ball mid game, you know what I mean? Throwing skip pass.

[00:39:37]>> You know, that's exactly how he plays and it's good. Like, I'm glad that even now while he's playing senior rugby, he hasn't really changed it up. Um, he still expresses himself now and then.

[00:39:46]So, that's he was I'd say standup player for me, guy that I played against.

[00:39:52]>> Yeah, of course, man. Um you played with piping brilliant players um with and against. It's absolutely crazy how I mean your life just you know catapulted into the sky bro.

[00:40:07]>> I mean >> younger you a younger you would you ever have imagined where you know your your career would be at the moment?

[00:40:17]>> Yeah jeez. I mean, you know, what I can say is that younger me, obviously, these are the things I used to like pray for. Um, so I'm like I'm quite a strong Christian, but um these are the things I used to like pray for when I was younger. But I never really saw the pathway. Like I mean, you'd know yourself like you're sitting in totally see the pathway. But I did I did I must say if I'm being honest myself, I did believe I could get there when I was younger. I just didn't know how but I believed I could get there. So, I'm I'm glad I just, you know, trusted the plan and everything just sort of fell into place.

[00:40:53]>> I think Conor McGregor said it. If you can believe it, you can achieve it.

[00:40:58]>> That's literally it, bro.

[00:41:01]>> Of course, man. Well, um, >> you see it, you achieve it.

[00:41:04]>> Of course. Uh, but let's speak about injuries. You know, you tore your ACL.

[00:41:10]Um, that must have been a big setback back for yourself mentally and and physically. Um, but how important is it to keep that that steady mind of of you're going to be back and you're going to be back better?

[00:41:22]>> Yeah, I think you always you always hear the stories about guys who have injuries and, you know, they often speak about how important it is to be mentally like in tune with what you're doing and your surroundings and yourself. like you you generally have to have a proper belief and trust in yourself that this is all just part of the journey and when you come back you know what I mean you're going to get straight back into the swing of things.

[00:41:49]A lot of guys often when you suffer injuries like that you sort of psych yourself out and when you come back some people say yeah he wasn't the same player when he came back. I promise you physically he was it was a mental thing most of the time. So that was the biggest part of it for me. Like I knew I was going to get better physically, but >> mentally I just wanted to make sure that I was still confident in myself. Like I would >> sort of reinforce that on like a daily basis that like like I know when I get back I'm going to, you know, go out there, express myself, still do well. I just need to take my opportunities when they come and say, you know, it's always the same thing. No matter what age you're at, bro.

[00:42:29]>> Exactly, man.

[00:42:30]>> Keep on reminding yourself. But yeah, obviously the tough thing is as you get older, you start thinking, ah, it's going to be harder to come back from this and it's not as easy as when I was younger or when you even when you're young, like in my case, so I was coming out of school. I obviously missed out on SAS schools. So in the back of my mind, I was like, yo, like I wasn't seen at this level now, which would have been SA schools. So when I get out of school, like I have to do a lot of work to prove that I'm good because all all the other guys had the opportunity to showcase their talent over there and I missed out on that step now. So I need to make up for it somehow. Um and yeah, I think that was that was big for me just like the mental side of things.

[00:43:15]>> Yeah, it's it's important man especially if you if you get the long-term injuries like that. Uh >> you need to keep positive and and and work hard, I suppose.

[00:43:25]100% bro 100%.

[00:43:27]>> But now your future uh you know rugby is in a short career. I've spoken to to many players um you know and asked them about what their future plans are after rugby um and a few of them said that they they only started planning and prepping for for that a bit late later than they would have liked to. Um but but at a young age like yourself, have you thought about any of of that future plans yet or or is that still coming?

[00:43:59]>> Um yeah, so I've definitely I've got a sense of direction. Like I know what I'm what I'd like to do, but um I'm a guy who sort of I like to dabble in a lot of things. So like like now like one of my main priorities now at this young age is to get into property. Um, I want to like, you know, start investing into that side of things and maybe start managing them myself eventually make it a thing where I've got like a company managing my assets for me in that regard in terms of property. But I'm I'm studying an LLB now, so I obviously want to get into law. That's what I'd say I'm passionate about besides the rugby. But I'd say, yeah, like the the possibilities are endless. Like there's a lot that I I take interest in.

[00:44:50]So, we'll see. But definitely somewhere in the law space. When when did you actually decide to start doing um podcast?

[00:44:57]>> Yeah, just uh obviously I did book on tour first. Uh and that that was something I >> I enjoyed and the engagement just was was crazy. Um, >> that was >> and you know I have the resources now so why not just uh you know try something a little bit different >> 100% bro and even this I think genuinely like like you're doing crazy like you're killing it bro I mean you only started not too long ago the guys that you've had on the podcast um it's insane the engagement and that as well like it's crazy bro >> now of course and shout out to uh behind the rock as well they they were a big part of the influence in there. So, shout out to Rudy and Jean.

[00:45:43]But, um, yeah, man. It's it's all it's all part of the the journey, I suppose.

[00:45:47]And hopefully, uh, we can be big. But, we we'll see.

[00:45:52]>> Understand, bro. Now, you're heading in that direction, bro. Just keep going.

[00:45:56]So, it's proper, >> of course, man. But, uh, yeah, let's just go to the games now. uh more more of the fun things is less serious.

[00:46:07]>> Uh I I want to I want you to build me your perfect player.

[00:46:11]I'll start off with speed.

[00:46:15]>> Speed. Um I'm going go with someone a bit younger.

[00:46:20]Chzwell.

[00:46:25]>> I I interviewed Sebastian Dlac the other day and he said that guy is rapid.

[00:46:32]I promise you over like like he's obviously quick. He's insanely quick, but like over like 10 meters it's genuinely like it's unseen. I've never I've never seen anything before.

[00:46:46]>> It's insane, bro.

[00:46:47]>> Yeah. No, he's he's he's rapid, bro.

[00:46:49]>> Strength, I'll go.

[00:46:53]>> Rugby IQ.

[00:46:54]>> Um I'll go Damian Villima. Leadership, I go my boy, I'll go Riley Norton.

[00:47:03]Oh, what a captain, bro. What a captain.

[00:47:05]>> Oh, what a what a guy, bro.

[00:47:08]>> I'm telling >> um the next game I got captain soon.

[00:47:12]>> I'm sure, bro. What's World Cup and championship now?

[00:47:18]>> They're going to go do the World Cup again. That's what I'm telling you.

[00:47:23]>> No, but he's also a bright prospect. Um but yeah the next game I got you is just the third one bent one and drop one.

[00:47:34]>> Cool.

[00:47:35]>> Steph to Toy Stei and Dwayne Fier.

[00:47:40]>> Yo that is that's actually c that's actually criminal. How could you give me those names?

[00:47:50]>> Yeah that's a tough one.

[00:47:53]Bro, I think I have to go just because of the legacy, you know what I mean? World Cup champion twice, led the nation. Um, I'm going to go see a Kesi start >> and then I mean because of the performances in those campaigns as I guess I'll have to go Peter Stef and all respect to Dwayne. Dwayne one of my >> Yeah. All respect, bro.

[00:48:23]>> Like one of the guy look respect.

[00:48:25]>> I have to drop him.

[00:48:28]>> Okay, now let's do uh we're going to do the same start on bench one. Drop one but with stadiums. We're going to go DHL stadium, Loftess, and Tukinum.

[00:48:39]>> Oh, this is easy. Okay, I'll start start DHL.

[00:48:45]What a place, man. um Bench Loftus >> and then I'll drop Twick in him. I must say though in um in Matrix we had like this tour to the UK for sevens.

[00:49:02]>> Um it was a rugby school like sevens tournament >> and we actually went to Twickenham. We had like a tour of Tukinum. Like the history, like they gave us like a tour of the inside, like the the archives over there, like the museum. It's insane. It's genuinely insane.

[00:49:19]>> History place, bro.

[00:49:21]>> It's it's mental. So, it's one of it's it's a place I definitely like dream and love to play one day, but it just >> of course >> doesn't get the nod doesn't get the nod ahead of the other two.

[00:49:33]>> No, of course, man. Well, as a South African, those those other two stadiums are are one of the the great for for SA rugby, you know, so >> don't blame you, bro.

[00:49:44]>> Um, lastly, last little game here I got is just some quickfire questions.

[00:49:50]>> Yeah.

[00:49:51]>> Um, we're speaking about stadiums now.

[00:49:54]your dream stadium.

[00:49:56]>> I'd say, you know, I'll do I'll do an honorable mention just because it's it's out of business now, but Nuland, >> the way people speak about >> oh my word, I would have loved to play there again, >> the names that have played at that stadium absolutely insane. But then I'll I'll give one now. So my stadium I'd say is Stard Fr.

[00:50:27]>> Oh I've heard stuff about that stadium, bro. It's a mental crazy atmosphere as well. Huh?

[00:50:34]>> I was about to say I think it's like the the French fans in general just mental like the game. It's crazy, bro.

[00:50:45]>> So I'd love to experience that. Yeah.

[00:50:49]your goat rugby player.

[00:50:51]>> You see, so this is going to be tough because this is going to contradict what I said earlier, but my goat I'd say is pizza.

[00:51:02]>> Yeah, fair enough. That guy's a tackling machine, bro.

[00:51:06]>> I think he's is one of the few names on the the Spring Box like history charts that, you know, I'm sure most most South Africans will put him top three. So, >> yo, I mean, you could speak for days about that guy, bro.

[00:51:24]>> Your favorite pregame song?

[00:51:29]>> Um, favorite pregame song?

[00:51:33]I'd say now I'm quite I'm quite involved in my rap.

[00:51:39]>> So, this is a little baby song. I'd say free promo.

[00:51:44]>> It's just >> That's a tune.

[00:51:47]the tune.

[00:51:48]>> That's right.

[00:51:50]>> One player you would want to play with someday.

[00:51:53]>> I'd say a guy I'd love to play with someday. I would have said SA, but obviously he's coming. So hopefully hopefully that more of a realistic shout, but I'll say like Audi S.

[00:52:10]I feel like >> icon of the game. E being in like a loose trio with him must be >> Yeah. No, he's he's he's a tough [ __ ] He is.

[00:52:20]>> Yeah.

[00:52:23]>> Do you have any hidden talents?

[00:52:27]>> Hidden talent? Um I wouldn't say it's hidden, but you know FIFA. You know the game FIFA?

[00:52:37]>> Yeah. So goat.

[00:52:38]>> I'm Exactly. All my all my friends would argue otherwise, but I'm I'm next level at Fog.

[00:52:46]>> Must play a game one day and and >> Oh, >> we'll see, bro. We'll see. We'll see who's king.

[00:52:52]>> No way.

[00:52:55]>> Worst dress in the team.

[00:52:57]>> This is tough. I'll do the I'll do the junior book team. Yeah. Um I'll say I'll say >> Okay.

[00:53:10]most underrated player you've ever played with.

[00:53:14]>> This is also difficult because there's so many guys that are, you know, just next level, but um that I've been fortunate enough to share the field with, but I'll say I'll say Matt Matt Ramau, he's at the Sharks now. He's also loose forward.

[00:53:32]He's proper, bro. He's like work rate, next level, and I'm sure you'll see more of him soon, but he's good. Proper good >> name to remember, huh?

[00:53:43]>> Yeah.

[00:53:45]>> And now in the gym, who's who's the strongest player in the Stormers team?

[00:53:52]>> That's so difficult because we we're never really like competing in that regard. Like, it's actually quite funny.

[00:53:57]Everyone has like customized workouts like to what you need to work on. And >> yeah, but I'll give you a name though.

[00:54:06]Zack. Zack port.

[00:54:09]>> Is that guy strong, bro?

[00:54:11]>> He's a freak, bro. I promise you. Yes.

[00:54:15]>> Monster.

[00:54:16]>> You can you you can see like the way the way he moves as well for like a prop.

[00:54:20]It's It's different. So, I'll give it to Zach. Yeah.

[00:54:24]>> I'm surprised by that name to be honest, bro.

[00:54:30]Um, the worst roommate.

[00:54:35]>> Yo, going to be in trouble here.

[00:54:40]>> Um, >> uh, it's all jokes, man.

[00:54:45]>> Say for this. Um, okay, cool. I got a name for you. I'll say I'll say Zack as well.

[00:54:54]>> You're saying the strongest guy on your team?

[00:54:57]Yeah, >> brave man.

[00:55:01]>> Yeah, I'll say Zach. He knows how to he knows how to have a good time, which is can be good but can be bad at times and sometimes just need a rest.

[00:55:11]>> And lastly, who who on the team likes a few beers?

[00:55:15]>> Yo, I could give you like a full A4 page full of names for this.

[00:55:22]Um, it >> takes soft spot, bro.

[00:55:27]Jeez. I'll give you Okay. Okay. I'll give you one name. I'll say Ollie Reed.

[00:55:39]>> Ollie Reed. He takes top top spot.

[00:55:41]>> Oliver Reed. Oliver Reed loves a good drink. Yeah.

[00:55:45]Like I said, like I said, there's genuinely so many names. Like I can't even put one above the rest, but I I'll give it to him. I'll give it to him. I shout. Oh, this is the last part of the the episode. Um, just going to be you chatting to any any young kid chasing the dream of trying to be a professional rugby player. I just want you to give them some sort of like, you know, inspiration or or motivation.

[00:56:14]>> Um, yeah, I think the biggest thing is that, you know, you understand that everyone's journeys are different.

[00:56:23]Um, like me myself, I'm still on my journey, still figuring things out as well. So, it's just important to, you know, learn from those who sort of done the things that you want to do. Like, always be easy to teach. I think that's a big thing. Easy to teach, easy to take lessons.

[00:56:45]But while saying that, like confident in yourself, like you're where you are for a reason.

[00:56:50]You have those dreams and those aspirations for a reason. Like they didn't just show up to you one day. So just believe in yourself. Believe in your ability and then just have the courage to go out there and work for it.

[00:57:04]>> Oh, that's beautiful, man. Oh, been an honor to have you on here, brother. I appreciate your time and for having me, bro. Generally, it's an honor to be on. Uh seriously, >> um to have one of the the uprising SA stars on on my podcast is is an unreal achievement for me. So, it's been an honor, brother. And uh yeah, I hope to see you uh playing first team for the Stormers sometime soon. And hopefully I can go watch a few games.

[00:57:33]>> Yeah, bro. That's the plan. We'll be there together.

[00:57:38]>> Of course, my brother. Well, thanks for your time. Of course, my brother.

[00:57:42]>> Cheers, brother. Keep Thanks.