Called to Communion with Dr. David Anders - 07/20/26

[00:00:00]Leo has again raised the alarm about the spread of war. During his Angelus address yesterday, he said, quote, "We continue to follow with concern the events unfolding in various countries [music] torn apart by war and violence.

[00:00:12]Let us not forget those who are suffering and dying because of [music] these conflicts, and let us add our constant prayers to the generous efforts for peace." And JD and Usha Vance welcomed their fourth child yesterday.

[00:00:23]The vice president made the announcement on X, noting that Alec Neil Vance arrived healthy and the family is overjoyed. [music] Alec has two older brothers and an older sister. For more news with a [music] Catholic perspective, visit EWTN newsws.com. Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders starts now.

[00:00:47]>> What's stopping you from becoming a Catholic?

[00:00:51]>> Why can't women become priests? 1833 288 EWTN.

[00:00:56]>> What's stopping?

[00:00:57]>> I don't understand why I have to earn salvation.

[00:01:00]>> 1833 2883986.

[00:01:03]>> What's stopping?

[00:01:04]>> Why do I need to confess my sins to a priest?

[00:01:06]>> What's stopping you?

[00:01:08]>> This is Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders on the EWTN Global Catholic Radio Network.

[00:01:17]>> Hey everybody, welcome again to Call to Communion. We are live on this Monday afternoon and we are here to answer your calls, especially those of you who are not Catholic. This is a great resource to get those questions answered. We'll give you the the actual uh straight skinny here on what the Catholic Church actually teaches. Here's our phone number, 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

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[00:02:10]Pedro Keelles, our producer. Matt Kabinsky handling the phones. Ace McKay is on social media. He's keeping an eye on all that. I'm Tom Price along with Dr. David Anders.

[00:02:19]>> Tom, how are you today?

[00:02:19]>> I'm well. How are you, sir?

[00:02:21]>> I'm hanging in there, thank you.

[00:02:22]>> Glad you are. And we've we're going to lead off with a text that came in uh actually this came in over the weekend.

[00:02:28]This person says, "Uh, my name is Leanne. I'm checking in from Nova Scotia in Canada. I listen on my Apple podcast.

[00:02:35]I lost my mom suddenly to a heart attack. I thought she was having a gallbladder attack and I didn't act fast enough. She died. I did CPR on her, but I couldn't save her. I need to know if God has a plan for each of us. It says in the book of Psalm 139:16, "Your eyes for Sam. My actions in your book are all written down. My days were shaped before one came to be." So, I just need your opinion. Does God have our lives all planned out for us? Do we all pass away when our time is up? When God already had that pre-planned? I'm trying to find reassurance because I'm always blaming myself for my mom's death. And I think if I believe that our lives are planned for us and God takes us back when our lesson is over in this world, I'll be able to live a better life without worrying so much. Thank you, Dr. Anders. I would really appreciate your answer.

[00:03:32]>> Yeah, thank you so much. I really thank you. So, it is Catholic doctrine that God's providence is in control of everything, including free human action.

[00:03:42]And so all our lives are present to him in a singular permanent instant. And he's not surprised by anything because he knows from all eternity what's going to happen.

[00:03:51]>> And uh and and and so you know that that's true. Now you know our actions still have consequences and that's part of the divine plan. His plan is to let our actions be the means whereby he brings about his purposes where his providence unfolds. Um so we still have real agency in the world. We're not just robots. We're not just automatons. But that being said, I, you know, I really would give yourself a big pass on this because, you know, moral responsibility requires in any context requires first of all intention, right? I mean, you have to intend evil to do evil. I mean, you can you can do things that are objectively harmful and not intend them, but if you don't intend them, you're not fully culpable for them. I mean, it's the difference between, you know, accidentally knocking a brick off the roof and hitting somebody on the head and then taking careful aim and dropping the brick off the roof. I mean, there the action the material action may have the same consequence, but there's an enormous difference in the in the the moral relevance of the actions and that's obvious just from from observation. So, intention's huge, right? Um, and uh the circumstances of an act also massively color its its moral quality. And when we when I look at the circumstances of your act, one of the [clears throat] circumstances that that absolutely defined the quality of your action was your ignorance of the true cause of her condition. And you you wouldn't it it's not possible that you could have known otherwise.

[00:05:21]>> Right?

[00:05:21]>> So you're you're blaming yourself for something that no one could have done.

[00:05:26]No one could have had the kind of, you know, immediate intuitive knowledge of the the source and origin of a problem that you think that you should have.

[00:05:35]That's not physically possible to you, right? And so you made obviously good choices in the sense of that you had the right intention. You acted on the information that you had given the circumstances and uh and what was beyond your control was completely beyond your control. You can't blame yourself for that.

[00:05:52]>> Yeah. Leanne, thank you so much uh for your uh text. We have this question here from Ben in Rapid City who says, "A non-atholic friend mentioned something to me this morning about appealing to the court of heaven. Do you have any idea what she was talking about? And if so, is it a belief agenda that is, or is it not keeping in with Catholic teaching?" Uh, what do we talk about here? Appealing to the court of heaven.

[00:06:17]>> Right. So, uh, you said this is a phrase that your non-atholic friend used. Yes.

[00:06:22]So I you know it would depend entirely on the context of the remark and I don't know what that might mean idiomatically in her tradition. I mean I can think of some things that are purely speculative that she might have meant by it.

[00:06:34]>> Um you know Christ himself >> will refer to God by a figure like he'll he'll he'll say heaven when he means God because in Jewish sensibility at the time you know one often avoided making direct mention of God. You come up with these figures and they're standins. We know what you mean. It's kind of like we do this in in common parlance too in our own political system when we say, "Well, you know, Washington has decided." Well, Washington hasn't done anything of the sort, you know, or Congress has decided or you know, we've had no response from the White House.

[00:07:09]>> Well, I mean, we mean the president, right? But we going to call him the White House or this other thing. So, it could just be one of these one of these uh um mitoenmies, you know, these figures of speech where you name you name the whole by the part or whatever >> or like uh like the dark horse candidate. Now, how can you explain that to somebody who just does does not know what we're talking about?

[00:07:31]>> That's right. Dark horse.

[00:07:32]>> That's right. That's right. Took me a long time to figure out what the third rail referred to in political discourse.

[00:07:37]You know, the third rail >> a subway reference.

[00:07:39]>> Exactly. Exactly. Step on it and you go, you know, >> bye now.

[00:07:42]>> Bye now. [laughter] Exactly. But uh so it could just be that it could be a reference to God in some you know in this sort of way or maybe maybe this person has a different cosmology and it's actually a reference to you know the court of heaven or something meaning like the assembled angel. So I I don't really know what they meant in context but I could you know those are my thoughts.

[00:08:00]>> Ben, thanks so much uh for checking in from Rapid City. In a moment we're going to get to the phones. We'll be talking with Kathy in Omaha. She is standing by as is John in Marietta, Georgia. We also have a question from Nate uh who called in but couldn't hang on but he left us with his question. We're going to get to all that and hopefully we'll get to you as well at 833288 EWTN. Call or text 8332883986.

[00:08:30][music] It is called communion with Dr. David Andrew and we are live on this Monday afternoon here on EWTN. Do stay with us.

[00:08:41]>> [music] >> Pope Francis tells us, "Becoming a priest or a man or woman religious is not primarily our own decision. Rather, it's the response to a call. A call of love." Do you feel as if God may be calling you to religious life? If so, contact a religious order [music] faithful to the magisterium or your diosis and vocation. For information on the priesthood [music] or religious life, visit EWTN.com/religious [music] life today.

[00:09:19]What if beauty was something more than we see? What if it was something we seek? I'm David Henry. We're traveling across Italy exploring the people. Well, I think I'm going to get used to it here.

[00:09:29]>> The culture. This is such a full circle moment for me in the sacred art to uncover the [music] beauty that's been speaking to hearts for centuries.

[00:09:37]>> Michelangelo has found the Lord at the end of his life. Makes me emotional.

[00:09:42]>> Along the way, I've met monks, musicians, artists, [music] even a few fellow pilgrims.

[00:09:49]>> And each one has helped me uncover deeper meaning.

[00:09:52]>> Trying to understand the mind of Carvajio.

[00:09:54]>> I got fired up about this stuff, man.

[00:09:56]>> Because beauty isn't just decoration.

[00:09:59]is the language of the soul. Come join me to see how timeless beauty [music] still speaks to us today and how it just might change the way we see everything.

[00:10:10]Seeking Beauty with David Henry, streaming now on EWTN Plus.

[00:10:20]It's called Communion with Dr. David Andrews [music] here on EWTN. Our phone number 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-288-3986.

[00:10:31]We're live. We got a couple lines open and we're waiting to hear from you. As we are waiting, let me get to uh something to tell you about a free ebook from EWTN. It is called Martyrs Through the Ages. This great ebook tells the story of nine heroic men and women from all walks of life who chose to offer their lives for Christ. Here's how you get this free ebook. Go to EWTN.com/saintstephven.

[00:11:00]That'll get you to it.

[00:11:01]Ewtn.com/saintstephven.

[00:11:05]And if you're ready now, let's go to the phones at 833288 EWTN. Beginning today with Kathy in Omaha, listening on the Great Spirit Catholic Radio. Hello Kathy. What's on your mind today?

[00:11:17]>> Hey guys. Um my brother um has a son-in-law who is a very very strong evangelical. I think he's Baptist. He's actually pulled my niece who used to be very Catholic away from the church. And uh they don't live in the same state as we do. But when my brother and sister-in-law have visited them, they attend a church uh called it's devoted to the infant of Prague. Well, the son and daughter son daughter and son-in-law went to church with them there. And of course, the son-in-law was not impressed with the statue of the infant of Prague and all that and asked my brother, you know, what's going on with this, which kind of fueled his whole hate of Catholics, you know, statues and all that kind of stuff. Um, what is a good explanation for him to give to his his uh son-in-law about Catholic devotion to the different things like Infant of Prague, um, you know, different saints and all that. He thinks it's all voodoo and that kind of thing.

[00:12:19]>> Yeah, sure. Thanks. I really appreciate the question. So, if if I had the son-in-law with me right now, I would I would take this approach. Um I I I would I would kind of sidestep the infant of Prague for the moment and I would want to go straight to the core questions of the Catholic veneration of saints and images in the general sense and then kind of boil down to the specific. I wouldn't go into the history of the infinite prong and and and there you know it it really comes down to the fact that in Catholic sotiology the doctrine of salvation that the the world itself all of reality is conceived of as sacramentally meaning that everything becomes a kind of point of encounter with God's majesty and being St. Bonaventure once said that the world is a ladder that that leads us to God or that ascends to God. And so it's one of the reasons that that that the Catholic mythos just makes so much better fiction than than Protestant mythos. You know, if you've noticed like all the all the sort of great epics and so forth, uh fantasy novels, they always have kind of a Catholic thing going on with Catholic symbolism and imagery.

[00:13:30]It's just something about the the physicality of the world that that that evokes the transcendent. That's really baked into the way Catholics think about things because it's baked into the New Testament, right? that that in St. Paul's writing in particular, yes, there is one unique Christ through whom we have access to the father, but Christ makes himself present to us uh by distributing himself as it were first of all through through his members, the church. You know, St. Paul can say, "Follow me as I follow Christ." He can he can tell the men in Corenth not to visit prostitutes because they would contaminate the body of Christ with a prostitute. like he's saying you are all members of Christ's body in that respect you know and um he the and and then the act of holy communion becomes for St. Paul this moment where we are manifesting corporately the mystical body of Jesus and Christ's graces are distributed to us through the members of the body. Paul can say I fill up in my own flesh what's lacking in the sufferings of Christ for the sake of his body the church. Um there's this wonderful line in Hopkins poem uh King Fishers Catch Fire where he says for Christ plays in 10,000 places lovely in eyes and limbs not his through the features of men's faces.

[00:14:52]>> Wow.

[00:14:52]>> And I may have gotten the limbs and eyes backwards that one. But the idea, it's just such a beautiful image of Christ plays in 10,000 places >> and and that doesn't I mean, you know, against the Protestant accusation that, you know, we'd somehow deny Christ alone or we're diminishing the glory of Christ. It's like, you know what manifests the glory of light more? A, you know, a a single white beam or a single white beam refracting through a prism into a into this, you know, magnificent display of color. You know, the the the refraction actually brings out what the beauty and the glory of the single beam.

[00:15:34]That's kind of the way the Catholic imagination works because it's again woven into the fabric of the New Testament. And and when you understand that we're all members of Christ's body in this way and in fact that God hears the prayers of one member of the body for other members of the body, you know, I mean, this is an Old Testament doctrine. Abraham turns to God in Genesis 18 and he says he says, "Uh, well, if I can find 10 righteous people, will you spare all the rest?"

[00:16:02]God says, 'Yeah, for the sake of the 10, I'll spare everybody else. Uh, he says to Moses, "Out of the way, Moses, I'm wiping out Israel." And Moses says, "Wait a second there, God. What about what about Abraham and the patriarchs?"

[00:16:13]Okay, for the sake of Abraham and the patriarchs, I'll spare all these worthless people. Or in the book of Job where where God speaks to Job's companions and he says, "I'm not happy with you guys. I'm not listening to you, but if Job prays for you, I'll listen to him on your behalf." So the idea that members of the body can intercede for one another, that their merits and prayers can avail not just for themselves but for others is deeply woven into the logic of the New Testament. So in in book of revelation chapter 5, the saints in heaven are depicted as offering our prayers to God, not just praying for us. They're not just saying, you know, God help Anderson and and Price down there, those numb skulls. He they're saying, you [snorts] know, Anders and Price are praying. We are taking their prayers and bringing them before the throne of God. We're we're actually, you know, in between Anders, Price, and God, and we're asking that their prayers be heard, right?

[00:17:10]That's built into the fabric of sacred scripture. And so, when it comes to images in the church, well, they have a couple functions. One is to evoke this reality in in the mind of the Catholic like to be aware that we're surrounded by this great cloud of witnesses and to bring them to mind. And again, this is a biblical idea. If you look at the Old Testament, there are commands in the construction of the temple and the tabernacle to make them replete with images in spite of the commandment that says, "Thou shalt not make a graven image."

[00:17:45]>> It's don't make a graven image in the worship of another god. It's not a prohibition on graven images as such.

[00:17:51]Uh, every Protestant kid I grew up with in the evangelical church um has their moral imagination fired with a a a host of images drawn from fiction, from literature, from art and film. I mean, Protestants use these tools constantly um to uh I mean, I I've told the story many times as I was growing up in an evangelical church. I I nourished my soul on the children's novels of CS Lewis. So much so that my wife once said to me, "David, when you die, I hope you get to go to Narnia." [laughter] You know, I mean, because that's, you know, you get this stuff woven into your the fabric of your soul. So many evangelicals have that >> kind of like soft, squishy, pale-faced, you know, glowing Jesus, you know, face, you know, the image is so common, you know, found on the backs of, you know, Baptist children's Bibles. I mean, so Protestants do this stuff, too. So that's that's one aspect of it. Another aspect of is is far more dogmatically significant, right? And that is if you say that in principle the divine cannot be depicted physically.

[00:18:58]Well, you really undercut the logic of the incarnation which is that the invisible God makes himself visible in the person of Jesus.

[00:19:07]And of course, the person of Jesus makes himself known through the members of his body. Right? So the veneration of saints and images is intimately tied to the logic of the incarnation itself. All of that is is wrapped up in uh in in the Catholic veneration of images. Now does that mean that every individual Catholic can give a coherent doctrinal account of their devotion? No, of course not. Any more than every Protestant kid can give a coherent doctrinal account of every aspect of Protestant spirituality. I mean I couldn't until I went to seminary, you know. Um but it fires the Catholic imagination in ways that bring positive fruit, right? And so when you know particular images of course will will grow in popularity just like you know I mean >> I don't know what was it 20 years ago Protestant series of novels the left behind series which are just terrible theology. Yeah.

[00:20:00]>> I mean they're just wretched theology.

[00:20:02]>> But uh it seemed like every evangelical you know in in town even if they weren't dispensationalists they were all reading them. Yeah.

[00:20:08]>> And I think they then they make a movie out of them with Nicholas Cage.

[00:20:11]>> Yeah. So I think >> so now all these Protestants kids have got Nicholas Cage in their mind, you know, and they think about the Escaton and that fires their moral imagination in in really perverse ways that that are destructive of Christian theology. But nevertheless, they they do this sort of thing and it but it took off. It became popular. Yeah.

[00:20:29]>> Well, you know, so some 16th century image of the infant Jesus became popular.

[00:20:35]I mean, if it floats your boat, you know, I'm not I mean, I've got there there are images of Christ I like better than than Little Wax Baby Dolls, but hey, you know, >> if it's if it's Nicholas Cage, I'm going to stick with Raising Arizona. Okay.

[00:20:48]>> I think that's a safer way to go. Kathy, is that helpful for you?

[00:20:51]>> That's very helpful. I'm going to play this back for my brother so he can have a good answer next time.

[00:20:56]>> Let him call me. Please, please ask him to call me. I'd love to talk to him.

[00:21:00]>> My brother or the the whoever the the oppositional guy is.

[00:21:04]Oh, that's >> Yeah, I'd love to see about that. He's really I mean, wow. He's really anti-atholic.

[00:21:11]>> Well, let let him call and tell me what an idiot I am. I I would love for him to call and tell me how wrong I am and how how right he is and how bad Catholics are. Makes for good radio. We would love to hear from him. He really does.

[00:21:22]>> I think he'd be growling by the time he was done. [laughter] >> Well, you know, we're What are we trying to do here? Plant seeds. That's what we're trying to do is plant seeds every day. Kathy, thanks so much for your call from Omaha. That opens up a line for you at 833-288 EWTN. We have two lines open 833-288-3986.

[00:21:42]You can call or text call to communion with Dr. David Andrews. Let's go now to John in Marietta, Georgia, listening on the quest. Hey there, John. What's on your mind today?

[00:21:52]>> Yes, good afternoon. Thank you for taking my call.

[00:21:55]>> Sure.

[00:21:55]>> Uh my uh question today u pertains to today's reading of the Gospel of Matthew. And I'll just uh paraphrase some of it. It part of it reads, "Just as Jonah was in the belly of the whale three days and three nights, so will the Son of Man be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights." Um, how literally should we take that since by any calculation u Christ was in the tomb for only two nights?

[00:22:25]>> Yeah. Well, not that literally obviously. [laughter] >> Yeah. Not that literally obviously. The New Testament is fairly playful in the way it applies Old Testament prophecy.

[00:22:36]And this is one of the illustrations. So there it is. That's where we have to leave it. John, appreciate your call from Marietta. Call to communion here on EWTN. We'll get back to the phones in a second. Here's a question from Nate who called in but couldn't hang on. Nate says, "I train alter boys at my church.

[00:22:55]One of the boys around age 14 told me he wasn't going to communion because he missed mass. So if this comes up again, would I be in the right to tell this non-driving child that he's not culpable for missing mass and could receive?

[00:23:13]>> Yeah. So I don't know why he didn't miss mass now. Why he did miss mass? Now the implication of your question is that it was not within his power to go to mass because his parents kept him home. Yeah, >> if that is the case, if it was literally morally impossible for him to go to mass, then then yeah, that'd be a fine thing to let him know about. But I also think that you have to you have to give wide deference to the child's developing conscience and and be very careful about contradicting any katakesus that his parents have given him.

[00:23:46]>> Oh yeah.

[00:23:47]>> You know, so so you know, tread lightly here. Um, and you know, honestly, in this situation, what I what I would do is um maybe let the priest know uh uh you know, the ordinary minister of communion and in general and then specifically and uh and he can either he can make a judgment call like just like that. He you tell the child go to communion, don't go to communion or he confession. Yeah. I mean, they're sitting there in the sacry, >> you know, take 30 seconds, hear the kids confession, go to communion, you know.

[00:24:25]>> Um, but yeah, I mean, theoretically, yeah, you could inform him of what his obligations are and aren't. But, but like I said, be real be real delicate there because you don't know what really happened or what instruction his parents may give him. You don't want to risk scandal by contradicting them. Thanks for your call there, uh, Nate. We do appreciate that. Let's go to Angelina now, who is in Philadelphia listening on EWTN television. Hey there, Angelina.

[00:24:47]What's on your mind today?

[00:24:49]>> Yes. Hi. I was I was trying to ask the question uh between John the Baptist, St. John the Baptist and St. Joseph.

[00:25:00]Joseph was of course the father of Christ. He raised his child Jesus, right? Okay. He was also a virgin. He was he loved Mary and that was hot star.

[00:25:09]He was uh he was truthful to the Lord.

[00:25:13]He he he made his promise. He won and he did. Now John the Baptist was the precursor of Christ. The only other man born without original sin beside Jesus and Mary. Now where John the Baptist being the precursor of Christ instead St. Joseph being the fourth father of the the c the child Jesus, who would you say was the more um holier man like between the two of them because it's a hard to me I think it's a very hard thing to to >> Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much. So So first of all I don't I don't think Revelation answers this question for us.

[00:25:56]There's nothing in scripture or tradition that says definitively this guy was holier than that guy. You know, except with respect to the blessed virgin Mary, we're told she was the holiest. But after that, I don't think we're given that many instructions. Um, you know, I think in tradition, in popular Catholic imagination, there's something about the Holy Family as a unit that is particularly exemplary that we're supposed to model ourselves after that that holds St. Joseph maybe in higher esteem when it comes to personal devotion. But Christ himself said that there was no one like John the Baptist, you know, before the coming of the son of man who could who could rival him in holiness. One one point of correction, John was not born without original sin, but he was sanctified in the womb.

[00:26:38]They're not the same thing. Angelina, thanks for your call. Lots more straight ahead here on Call to Communion. Do stay with us.

[00:26:45]>> Hi, this is Father Mike [music] Schmidz.

[00:26:47]I invite you to listen to Bible in a Year and Catechism in a Year here on EWTN Radio. on Catechism. In a year, you'll encounter God's plan of sheer goodness for [music] us. Throughout the year, we read through the Catechism of the Catholic Church with direct quotes, plus time for explanations and reflections. I hope you can join us every day or as often as you can.

[00:27:06]>> Bible [music] in a Year and Catechism in a Year with Father Mike Schmidz tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern, 7:00 p.m. Pacific on EWTN Radio.

[00:27:17]Hi, I'm Doug Kek and this is an ETN bookmark brief. We're speaking with author Robert Royal about his book, The Martyrs of the New Millennium: The Global Persecution of Christians in the 21st Century, published by Sophia Press and available through our EW10 religious catalog. So, Robert, why is this book important, especially for Catholics today?

[00:27:35]>> Well, because I I think most of us Catholics do not realize that there is persecution and martyrdom on every continent in the world these days. even places like Mexico that we think of as as as highly Catholic produced martyrs these days, we're not aware of it. It's it's good for us to be informed about it. And I think the only way that we can better the situation is by knowing what's going on and then actually doing something about it wherever we can.

[00:28:00]>> Well, thank you so much, Robert Royal.

[00:28:02]And his book is The Martyrs of the New Millennium: The Global Persecution of Christians [music] in the 21st Century.

[00:28:07]Again, available through our religious catalog. This has been a bookmark brief.

[00:28:10]Thanks for stopping by. Catch you next time.

[00:28:16]The free EWTNLearn [music] series includes trusted videos and resources to help you deepen your faith and knowledge. Visit ewtnmission.com/learn [music] and begin a new spiritual journey today.

[00:28:32]Matt Swim here. Tomorrow on the Sunrise Morning Show, we'll celebrate the feast of St. Lawrence of Brendesi, [music] Doctor of the Church, plus news, weather, sports, and more. Now back to Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders.

[00:28:52]Still time for your phone calls to EWTN's Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders. Looks like a three lines open.

[00:28:59]How about that? 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-288-3986.

[00:29:08]Let us go to Will in Wisconsin listening on the EWTN app. Hello, Will. What's on your mind today?

[00:29:15]>> Oh, yes. Hello. Hi. My question is uh kind of like how what's stopping my kids from being a good Catholic? You know, as someone who works for the church, I'm wondering how do I strike a good balance between proper catechesis of my kids and not like shoving the faith down their throat because we spend an awful lot of time in the church and going to mass.

[00:29:41]So, I'd like to hear what Dr. David has to say about that.

[00:29:45]>> Yeah, I really appreciate it. So the um uh there's a there's a good Catholic author about Catholic parenthood named James Stinson and it was Father Mark that turned me on to >> Oh yeah >> to James Stinson a long either I think it was Father Mark it was one of the Francis Father Mark long time ago and uh Stinson makes a really excellent point.

[00:30:05]He he said he was the director of a Catholic school for many years. And he said in observation he looked at all these Catholic families and there were some kids who really flourished not just in their Catholic faith but in life and others that didn't turn out so well and he really wanted to kind of get at the underlying logic of all these Catholic families all Catholic education. Why does some flourish and some don't? And and he decided to make a study of it and really gave his life to that project.

[00:30:30]And one of the interesting conclusions that he drew was that the children of entrepreneurs on balance did better than the children of non- entrepreneurs. You scratch your head and say, "Well, you know what?

[00:30:43]What's how is that relevant?"

[00:30:45]>> Here is why it was relevant. In most of the cases where families were entrepreneurial, the kids worked alongside the parents.

[00:30:53]>> It wasn't about having a business. It was about you could have a farm, you could have whatever. It was about growing up learning the virtues from observing your parents practice them and being called upon to practice alongside them. So, so experiential learning, participatory learning. And the kids whose parents were professionals or had, you know, nineto-fives, well, they were brought to maturity by their peers.

[00:31:17]>> Yeah.

[00:31:17]>> And not by their parents. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:31:19]>> And they might have heard a lot about virtue, but they they neither saw it, participated in it, or experienced it or called upon to exercise it. And and that really was the key difference. And there were other families that maybe they didn't own businesses or farms, but their but their their their manner of life was u I think what he called it was like the the sporting adventure family where they were sort of committed to you know as their family life was a collective project that they were all equally invested in. And uh you know I have a a really good friend who's um whose kids are athletes and you know most people in the Catholic world kind of get down on being too athletic and take time away from mass and all this and I get that criticism but in this family's case it meant that the whole family was always in the van together you know driving you know cross country to go support each other in their various athletic endeavors. And so they really they really lived that. And if they weren't doing that, they were all like, >> you know, camping or going to the beach or climbing a mountain. They just were always off together doing something. And the kids are mostly grown now. And or they're getting grown. And I I called one of my buddies my buddy the other day said, "What are you doing?" And he's like, "Well, we got all seven of us and we're in the we're in the the van and we're all headed, you know, out of state to go to a wedding." And I mean, they got, you know, kids in their 20s and they're still all piling in the van and going off because they love being together. you know, and uh and and they're all wonderful. You know, they're just wonderful people. And that it's it's that sense that's that in my judgment is is vastly more important than, you know, how well did they memorize the Baltimore Catechism?

[00:33:04]Because there are a lot of kids that memorize the Baltimore Catechism and then blow it up when they turn 21, >> you know, or throw it in the garbage or whatever. And [clears throat] uh you know the the the church says about itself that you cannot present a demonstrative argument for the truth of Catholicism that will compel the intellect to comply and the will to submit.

[00:33:25]>> There's no such thing.

[00:33:26]>> Yeah.

[00:33:27]>> Right. Thomas says that you love the truth and then you go looking for reasons to support it. The arguments come after the love. And the love comes because you've you've had a living, breathing, participatory experience of of the goodness and truth of the faith.

[00:33:43]And I don't mean specifically it's its abstract doctrinal content, but say, you know, Ampus' admonition that he would rather feel contrition than know the definition thereof.

[00:33:55]>> You want your kids to know about contrition? Model humility in apology.

[00:34:00]>> Yes. Like that's vastly more important than teaching them, you know, the five parts of a good confession and walking them through the ritual that they see that you have the not just the sacrament but the virtue of penance. Same thing with love and justice and all of these other things. What good does it do?

[00:34:17]Ampus says to be able to define the blessed trinity if you're arrogant and therefore displeasing to the trinity.

[00:34:25]I I I use this quote practically every day, but one of my kids told me years ago, "Daddy, you know, you're right about everything and nobody cares."

[00:34:32]Well, you don't want that to be your kid's view. Dad's got all the answers, but big deal.

[00:34:37]>> Yeah.

[00:34:38]>> You know, uh better to not have all the answers >> and be a big deal because you're the kind of person that people say, "Gosh, when I grow up, I want to be like that."

[00:34:48]And um so that's my that's my counsel. I would I would back way off on the sort of, you know, the doctrinal propositional exugesus and and and and explanation and lean really into loving them and but also loving them in a way that you're calling them to be the best versions of themselves.

[00:35:06]>> Modeling is so important. It really is.

[00:35:08]Is that helpful for you, Will?

[00:35:11]>> Sure. Thank you, doctor.

[00:35:13]>> Appreciate your call there, Will. It is called to communion here on EWTN. Still time for a few more calls at 833288 EWTN. Call or text 833-2883986.

[00:35:26]Here's a text from John who says, "Dr. Randers, given that the Catholic Church has infallibly interpreted only a very few biblical verses, how are Catholics to rightly interpret the rest of the Bible? And how are Catholics in any better position than Protestants in that regard?"

[00:35:44]>> Yeah, thanks. I really appreciate the question. So, you know, to the best of my knowledge, I don't think the Catholic Church has infallibly interpreted any verse of the Bible. And and I I'd be horrified if it ever did. That's not the way infallibility works. The church infallibly defines dogmas.

[00:36:01]>> It says here are things you must believe. It doesn't it doesn't usually apply that charrorism of infallibility to texts which are by their very nature ambiguous.

[00:36:11]And interpretation as a practice is essentially the practice of putting questions to documents. Well, there's an infinite number of questions you can put to a document. And the answers that we derive from the document can always be expanded by an increase in knowledge. I mean, you know, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls, for example, or or or or new discoveries in archaeology that that that expand our understanding of, say, 10th century Hebrew are going to always add nuances to the way we understand a biblical text. And and we don't, you know, we're not we're not freezing those interpretations in time in a way that would make them immune to historical criticism or scientific discovery or, you know, to new context and so forth. That's just the way the sacred text functions in the heart of the people of God is not as a dogmatic textbook or a rule book. That's the way Protestants do it.

[00:37:02]>> Yeah.

[00:37:03]>> It's a it's as a source of reflection for prayer and liturgy and theological reflection, but a far more evocative way rather than a kind of uh you know sort of propositionally demonstrative way that fires the Catholic imagination and puts it in contact with Christ. And then that aided by the process of human reason is how the church does theology.

[00:37:24]And then the magisterium steps in and and and and singles out those dogmas, those those elements of belief that that are central to the tradition says you have to hold these in common. But then for the rest of it, there's this leeway.

[00:37:37]Well, how how are Catholics and Protestants in a better in a different position? Well, I just I just articulated one big one.

[00:37:43]>> Yeah.

[00:37:43]>> Right. So that that whole approach that I'm taking towards the use of the Bible in the Christian life, it's just not how traditional Protestantism has put the Bible to use in their Christian life.

[00:37:53]Right? So at least in the in the fundamentalist evangelical wing of things, uh the Bible is usually viewed as a kind of theology textbook, right? A set of infallible propositions that are that are uh consistently and coherently linked together. And the job of the interpreter is to is to first of all do grammatical historical not his not historical critical but grammatical historical exogesis to discern the denotative sense of the words in their original linguistic context. And then the job of the systematic theologian is to demonstrate how all that propositional content of the Bible is internally consistent and functions as a kind of system, right, to to define the context, the contours of Christian life and and practice. That's not what the Bible is. And so that methodology is is just absolutely guaranteed to founder as it has historically. Um so you're at a major disadvantage. Another way that that Protestants have used the Bible that I have witnessed um is uh is in a superstitious manner that the medieval theologians called the sortest biblical which is the practice of opening the Bible randomly to a page and reading the text as if it were speaking to your specific concrete situation taking it out of its historical context using it as a kind of I don't know a sort of textual Ouija board or something. Um, and I know a lot of Protestants who use the Bible that way. And that's not what the Bible is. Again, that's not what the Bible is, right? Uh theomists uh Presbyterian theomists take Old Testament law as if it were a divine blueprint that's ideal for civil society and would impose on us again things like shadow slavery and the subjugation of women and and the you know the punishment of heretics by burning them at the stake and all these things that you find in the Old Testament that Jesus wasn't about and they say well that's in the Bible so we better do that today.

[00:39:52]No, let's not do that today. Right? I mean, like there's so many differences between the way Protestants and Catholics read sacred scripture, uh the way a Catholic reads the sacred scriptures safely is he knows those dogmas of the church. The church says, "Okay, well, you know, whatever you do, we're not giving up trinitarian theology. Okay, let's not give up trinitarian theology. Now, let's go to work and read the Bible." Right? And uh it doesn't mean you have to come to some particular conclusion about any text. It means that the conclusions you come to in reading the text.

[00:40:27]You shouldn't apply them in a way that undermine your faith in something like say the dogma of the trinity.

[00:40:32]>> Sure.

[00:40:32]>> Right. That's how you do it. And then beyond that, we get in lively debates with other scholars and we argue back and forth, but we we we read it in the context of the church and its liturgy.

[00:40:43]We're guided by the teaching of the magisterium. we're open to correction [cough] and we take [clears throat] this um this sort of you know more fluid um prayerful approach rather than the the sort of fundamentalist dogmatic approach to things and that's how that's how we roll >> it is a wonderful journey is it not >> wonderful horrifying terrible depends on where you started I mean for me the path to Catholic faith was strewn with so much difficulty in this regard like I had I had to I had to shipreck on so many interpretive rocks before I found the freedom of of of Catholic life and thought. I mean for me becoming Catholic was a tremendously intellectually liberating experience. Um and uh and it was it was absolutely worth taking. Was it fun? Um I don't know. Was a root canal fun?

[00:41:36]>> No, you know it was I had to I had to really undo a lot of stuff that was quite painful to undo, you know.

[00:41:42]>> All right. It is called a to communion.

[00:41:44]And uh we do thank you John for your text. Um you can probably get in one or two more phone calls at 833288 EWTN. That's 833 2883986.

[00:41:56]In a moment we're going to get to William in West Virginia. But I do want to remind you that we bring you the Holy Rosary twice each day and we've been doing that for over 30 years. Tune in every morning 5:30 Eastern for Mother Angelica. every evening at 9:30 p.m.

[00:42:13]Eastern for Father Benedict Rochelle only on EWTN radio. And now here is William in West Virginia. First time caller there listening on SiriusXM channel 130. Hello, William. What's on your mind today?

[00:42:28]>> Hello. Thank you, man. Sorry. Um, so I am a new convert to the faith and my Baptist grandfather has some serious uh, I guess concerns that he's raised. And over the course of my conversion, of course, I uh, came to know what the Catholic faith was. And he essentially has tried to refute things. He said he's disappointed in me and it's gotten to the point where he would like to have me meet with his Baptist pastor. and I'm wondering if that would be fruitful or spiritually healthy. Um I I have plans to speak with my spiritual adviser.

[00:43:05]However, I was just curious about your input on that.

[00:43:08]>> Yeah, thanks. So, um the the the grandfather has one objective and that is he wants the Baptist pastor to knock some sense into your head.

[00:43:21]That's his perspective, right? He thinks you you've gone crazy. You don't know what you're talking about. You won't listen to him. maybe you'll listen to the Baptist pastor. So that's his only objective. When you go talk to the Baptist pastor and you don't become a Baptist again, your grandfather will be disappointed and the Baptist pastor will go back and report something like, "Well, he's just too far gone or he's too hard-headed or he won't listen to reason." He's not going to give your grandfather a charitable account of your conversion. More than likely. More than likely. I mean, he might, but more than likely, he's not going to. Um so uh the only reason to do it would be you know at the request of your grandfather I don't expect that to provide to produce any positive fruit at all um you know if I were in your shoes uh what I would do at your age versus what I would do now be very different uh today if someone says would you meet with my Baptist pastor I'd say absolutely I'll meet with your Baptist pastor 100%.

[00:44:27]And the first thing I would try to establish with the Baptist pastor is um how you doing? Um tell me about yourself. Uh where'd you grow up? You married? You got kids? How's that going?

[00:44:38]Yeah. You like the Grateful Dead? I'm really into The Grateful Dead. Oh, you don't like The Grateful Dead? That's that's fun. You like to listen to You like some music? You don't You like music? Okay. What about your wife? What does she do? Uh you know, you think you'll vote this November? uh you know, I would try to just befriend the guy as a human being and be like, you know, you're a Baptist, I'm a Catholic, that's all chill and cool, but you know, no big thing to me. You know, let's just get to know each other. I'd like to be your friend and uh and really downplay that there's a theological issue to be discussed because I don't have any agenda to aggress to to convert him. I don't care if he's a Baptist. I really don't. I mean, St. Peter says, "Be ready to give an answer when people ask you about the hope that's in you." I'm ready to do that. No, Andrew. No, I don't want to talk about I want to tell me about your being Catholic. Oh, that's a different story. I'll tell you why I'm Catholic. Well, I don't agree with all that. Okay, that's fine. If you have any other questions, I'm here. You know where to find me. I'm not here to fight.

[00:45:36]I'm here to make friends. Answer questions if you have them. If you don't, you know, that that would be my disposition today. And if he's really like wanting to tangle, I'd be like, "Okay, you really want to know why I'm not a Baptist? I'll lay it out for you, but I mean that would be like my last resort, you know, and um uh >> but start with a particularly human beginning.

[00:45:56]>> Absolutely. I mean like but that's not why he's there. That's why it's a little bit disingenuous, you know.

[00:46:01]>> Now, you know, if I really had to go toe-to-toe with the guy, then theologically what I would do is I would say, okay, well, if we really have to talk theology, [clears throat] there's really only one question that matters.

[00:46:12]There's only one that matters and that is how do we know what the Christian faith is.

[00:46:18]How do we know? Like there's no point discussing Mary or purgatory. None of that matters. None of that matters at all until we know how to answer those questions. How to assess whether there's a purgatory. How to assess whether or not we should venerate Mary. Until we answer what is the the like the basis of theological discussion, there's no point in discussing theological differences, >> right?

[00:46:39]>> What do you think? What do you think grounds all theological statements?

[00:46:44]Well, of course, we have to go to God's word. Oh, really? And what's that? Well, this book right here. How do you know that?

[00:46:52]And I would go straight to the issue of soul scriptura and only soul scripture and nothing but soul scriptura. Soul scripture is the doctrine, the Baptist doctrine, the Protestant doctrine, that all matters of theological controversy have to be settled with reference to the 66 books of the Protestant canon of the Bible.

[00:47:08]That's the That's the position. Okay.

[00:47:10]How do you know that? Who told you that?

[00:47:12]Did Jesus say that? No. Did the prophets say that? No. Did God reveal that to you in a dream? No. Where did that idea come from? The Bible doesn't say it. The Bible doesn't even reference its own table of contents. There's nothing in scripture that tells you what the books of the Bible are.

[00:47:29]All right. You You're quoting the book of Romans at me. How do you know Romans belongs in the Bible? What if I just assert for the sake of argument that I'll take Romans out of the Bible? On what grounds will you stick it back in?

[00:47:39]Paul wrote it. How do you know that?

[00:47:42]How do you know that?

[00:47:44]Well, well, well, well, well, well, well, [laughter] you know, no, you your your Bible depends on the integrity of Catholic tradition.

[00:47:55]The reason you have those 66 books is that the Catholic Church put them there.

[00:48:00]If you don't trust the Catholic Church in its traditions, then you can't trust it to get the canon of the Bible right.

[00:48:09]You can't even get you don't even know that Romans is in the Bible unless the Catholic Church tells you it's there. If you don't trust the Catholic tradition, you got no reason to trust that the Bible even contains the right books.

[00:48:20]Then how do you know how to use the Bible now that you get the right list of right books, which you don't have, by the way, how do you know how to use the Bible?

[00:48:28]Like, do you use it as a guide book, as a rule book, as a theology textbook?

[00:48:32]What's the right way to read it? How do you know?

[00:48:36]The Bible doesn't present itself as a theology textbook. I mean, read Leviticus. What are you going to do with that? Read the Psalms. What are you going to do with that? Looks like a book of poetry. Looks like a book of ancient Hebrew cultic law. What relevance is that to me? How am I what am I supposed to do with that? Well, this that, the other thing. How do you know that?

[00:48:55]Right? the the Catholic Church has a way it says you should approach the Bible as a text and what to do with it. If you don't trust the Catholic church's interp traditions, why should I trust Baptist?

[00:49:06]Baptist tradition says this book should be regarded in this way and used in that way. Why should I trust Baptist tradition? What's authoritative about Baptist tradition? Jesus doesn't use the Bible that way. It's not how he uses it at all. Right? Um all right, let's say you have a disagreement about the interpretation of the Bible. Okay, that happens all the time. How do you know whether the disagreement matters? What do you mean? Well, sometimes they matter. Sometimes you have to split up over it. Other times you don't. How do you know when you split when you don't split?

[00:49:36]Well, you split when it's really essential. How do you know it's really essential? Who told you what was essential? Well, if it pertains to salvation, how do you know what pertains to salvation and what doesn't?

[00:49:46]Historically, Protestants haven't agreed on that question. How do you tell the difference between a dog man and opinion? There's no Bible doesn't do that. Doesn't define that for you.

[00:49:54]Catholic tradition does.

[00:49:56]>> Well, there you go.

[00:49:57]>> And at the end of the day, did Jesus even tell us to go to the Bible when he wants us to understand the faith? No.

[00:50:04]What did he say? Thou art Peter, and on this rock I'll build my church. I give to you the keys of the kingdom of heaven. Whatever you bind on earth is bound in heaven. Whatever you loose on earth is loosed in heaven.

[00:50:14]The gates of hell will not prevail against it. Christ gave us the teaching church. Go into all nations, make disciples, teach them everything I've commanded you. I'll be with you to the end of the age. Whoever hears you hears me. He didn't give us a book. So, if I had to debate doctrine, that's the only doctrine I'd talk about. I wouldn't talk about any other doctrine, but I try not to debate doctrine.

[00:50:32]>> Yeah. Hey, William, thanks so much for your call from West Virginia. We're going to try to get these last two texts in. Uh, one from Greg in Columbus, Ohio.

[00:50:41]Dr. Anders, regarding the rosary, can you explain why the presentation in the temple is a joyful mystery?

[00:50:49]>> Yeah, thanks. So this is first of all a joyful time in the life of the holy family.

[00:50:54]>> Yeah.

[00:50:54]>> And it is their compliance with the traditions of their ancestors, right? It this is part of the liturgy of Israel and they are joyfully affirming their identity as as members of that community of children of Israel who are obedient to the the cult established by Moses.

[00:51:12]And that's a thing to be celebrated. I mean, it's why is why is the first communion, right, a a joyful celebration in in Catholic tradition? Why is confirmation for that matter? If you're in Hispanic culture, why is King say anos a big deal, right? It's just it's a celebratory part of being in that community. And Jesus and Mary and Joseph had those sorts of things in their life and they had religious significance. And so they're they can be joyfully reflected on and we can find all kinds of analoges which I've just articulated in our own lives.

[00:51:44]>> Well, there you go. Thanks so much uh for your text. We have one here um from an anonymous person. Is it a Catholic belief as the book states? Don't know which book they're talking about. Is it a Catholic belief as the book states that our prayers and sacrifices help prepare the souls of those we love by our sacrifices and things we surrender?

[00:52:05]So it is absolutely a Catholic belief that the prayers and sacrifices of one person can be spiritually beneficial to a second person. That is absolutely it's a biblical belief. That's a Catholic belief. And you know, I mean, I mean, even in empirical experience, how many of us have been fortunate, maybe many have haven't, but how many have been fortunate enough to have some pious grandmother that spent half her life on her knees and you know she's praying for you >> and and the thought that, you know, grandmom's there praying for me is an encouragement and sometimes a go.

[00:52:38]>> Yeah.

[00:52:39]>> And sometimes, you know, a conviction to better behavior that stands at the back of our own moral development. I mean, many of us have had that experience. I know I did. In in my case, it was my it was my holy grandfather, um, you know, who I didn't want to let down or my father. And, uh, and so, we experience these things naturally, but then the church tells us they're also part of the the spiritual undercurrent that influences us in ways that we can't see.

[00:53:05]>> Definitely a Catholic belief. All right.

[00:53:08]Very good. And we thank you for your text. We thank everybody for all the input that they've provided today. I want to go over a couple of quick ground rules before we uh wrap up shop here.

[00:53:17]First of all, regarding emails, if you'd like to send us an email for a future show, that is always available for you 247. And the address for that is CTCWTN.com.

[00:53:29]CTCEWTN.com.

[00:53:32]Here's another thing to know about our listener comment line, and we open that up for you as well, 24 hours a day, seven days a week. So maybe you think of a question you'd like to ask Dr. Anders or one of our other hosts over the weekend or late at night when we're not doing live radio. You can call this number. [music] You may want to write it down. 2057955773 and >> [music] >> uh we'll sometimes play some of those on the radio for you. Hey, Dr. David Anders. Thank you, sir.

[00:54:02]>> Thanks, Tom.

[00:54:03]>> Keep it right here on EWTN coming up next on most of these EWTN stations.

[00:54:08]That'll be at 3 pm Eastern. Open line Monday, Monday with Father John Tragillio. He will be here to take your questions uh just like we've been doing for the past hour at the same phone number. On behalf of our great team, I'm Tom Price along with Dr. David [music] Anders. Hey, thanks for joining us. See you tomorrow on the Tuesday edition of Call to Communion with Dr. David Anders.

[00:54:30]Till then, God bless.

[00:54:35]Here's today's quote [music] from Mother Angelica's perpetual calendar. We all have some aspect of our Lord's life that we're attracted to. And if we're [music] attracted to it, then we try to reflect it. Is that all? To reflect like a mirror.