Downham Market full town council 09/06/26

[00:05:44]Good evening, councilors, members of the public.

[00:05:48]We will start the meeting. Um, I will just say before we do anything at all, due to weather conditions, we we're having issues with live streaming. So, if it cuts out, um, you will know what's happened to the live streaming. This is just for the members of the public really who are listening in um, so that if something happens, uh, they won't go rushing and pulling wires out and doing everything, >> but it will be uploaded later.

[00:06:21]If we have any issues with um fire alarms or whatever, I would like you to leave by the main door that we came in or by the fire exits and wait over against Cogles's uh funeral directors, the far wall of other side of the car park. And could all phones either be switched on off and um put on silent, please?

[00:06:49]Item one, apologies for absence.

[00:06:51]>> Good evening, Mr. Mayor. We have apologies from councelor Damon, personal reasons, councelor B Moyes's work, councelor Kane, Holiday, and Burough Councils Ratcliffe and Dan.

[00:07:04]>> Thank you.

[00:07:06]Item two, declarations of interest. to receive declarations of interest and consider any requests or dispensations.

[00:07:16]Members are reminded to declare any interests including disposable or pecunary interests in accordance with the town council's code of conduct.

[00:07:29]Public forum >> councilors. It is given that when we get to item 15, car park orders, that it affects every counselor here. Um, and that's a standing dispensation that has been there before.

[00:07:47]>> Thank you.

[00:07:50]>> Council Lewis.

[00:07:51]>> Yeah. Number 18. Uh, my son plays football for Dhamtown.

[00:07:57]>> Okay.

[00:07:59]Councelor um Dixon.

[00:08:03]>> Sorry, Councelor Dixon. Was that 18?

[00:08:05]Thank you.

[00:08:06]>> Thank you, Council.

[00:08:10]>> Councelor Brewer.

[00:08:12]>> Uh agenda item eight, please.

[00:08:14]>> Okay. Anybody else?

[00:08:18]Thank you very much.

[00:08:21]public forum, county councelor and burough counselors to speak. Um, county coun uh a new county councelor, would you like to um pop up to the uh mic and have a few words with us, please? I'll welcome you to the to your first meeting here tonight.

[00:08:44]>> Thank you very much, and it's nice to to be here and see everyone. I've met quite a few now going around. So, um I will tell you a few things that I've been doing um in the last couple of weeks. I um am also in the cabinet at Northolk County Council with a an extended portfolio which I'm working my way through at the moment. But as far as Downham is concerned, most of the issues that I've had come are road safety issues and um also the they were going to change the traffic lights at Wingfields Greenwich Close and they were going to spend £60,000 in changing the traffic lights there. I managed to stop that and they are going to send a traffic technician to discuss that with us and also the problem at Hillrest where it's quite dangerous in the afternoon and morning for the children going across the road.

[00:09:44]Um, so as far as Wingfield's Junction is concerned, I would like feedback from people here and the public as to what they think should be there because most people say remove the lights completely.

[00:09:59]I've had people telling me they'll go up there with a can of white paint and pound paint a round small mini roundabout in the middle which would solve the problem. So I would like some feedback on that. So when the guy comes over, I have the information that the public want, what they think should be there. We've also had issues at the high school um with parking. I'm not sure if there is a solution there um and Hillrest as well. I went to see the headmaster with Chris Perkin and we spent the afternoon there studying what was going on. They have ambiguous signing. If you go one direction past the school, you do 20. If you come the other direction, you can do 30. Um, so hopefully they'll fix that quite quickly. Um, and also my pet project is the junction between London Road, Denver, and the A1122.

[00:10:56]To my knowledge, we've had fatalities there, multiple accidents. In the morning when I use that junction, I see young children going across the road to Denver school and senior school children coming the other way and it is lethal.

[00:11:10]There is it's only a matter of time before we have another accident at that spot. So those are the things I've been working on. I've also had lots of issues with blue badges, this type of thing, which have been resolved quite successfully um for some of the residents of the town. Um, and really in two weeks that's where I've got to. So there we are.

[00:11:35]Any questions?

[00:11:37]Steve, can we not just replace the light bulb in the green arrow at Wingfields?

[00:11:47]Because it only seems to be the green arrow to turn right going towards the bypass. Well, it doesn't work >> right. But >> I've had >> they they are saying the traffic lights have reached the end of their useful life.

[00:12:02]>> Um but do we want to replace them at £60,000 with another set of lights?

[00:12:09]>> So that is the question. But I'd like lots of people to come back and say what they would like to happen there so that we make the right decision about that.

[00:12:19]You know how frustrating it is when someone turns into wingfields and triggers the lights and you're sitting there and people crossing the road also people are racing the green light where if it was a mini roundabout they'd slow down to be in preparation to give right they give way to the right wouldn't they as you know you do yourself.

[00:12:39]>> Yeah. Okay. And uh yeah, I have to congratulate you on if you can manage to get a pedestrian crossing across that bypass cuz I've been lobbying for some time and I got told it was going to cost too much money.

[00:12:54]>> But well done for trying. Hopefully you get there.

[00:12:57]>> With the new roundabout that they've put in at Broad Oaks, which is not fit for purpose cuz Arctics can't go around there without climbing up onto the the roundabout itself. I have told Graeme Brave at County Council that is not fit for purpose. They need to go back to the developers and have it repaired properly, not those silly concrete blocks they put on there which are all tilting up already.

[00:13:20]And they should have taken the opportunity there to cut the speed limit down past the Denver, past the down and turning and possibly down the hill as well towards the the railway crossing.

[00:13:33]And that's what I should be pushing for.

[00:13:35]Whether I'm successful or not, I don't know.

[00:13:40]We will try. Okay. It's it's high time that was done.

[00:13:46]>> George, >> um, in relation to the proposal for the end school, the old down market Yeah.

[00:13:55]>> six form.

[00:13:57]>> Um, do you think that'll go ahead?

[00:14:00]>> What you you talking about the parking there?

[00:14:02]>> No, no, no. the conversion of the old six form to a sec a send school >> that actually does not come it's come under my remit but I can find out if you want to if you send me the what you want to know >> I will speak to the person involved the county counselor that's dealing with that and I know there was a um something in the press >> from uh Jerry Jeremy as well about that >> and I believe it's going through it's it's all happening >> it's just with the change of council, you just wonder if that will still go ahead. Um cuz there was a significant amount of people who answered and sent information into the previous administration in North County Council saying that they wanted that to go ahead as a s school and I know there's a 5 million provision from parliament to help with the conversion of that.

[00:14:57]>> I've heard nothing to the contrary. I'll rate I'll anything >> I'll send you a message >> please. Yeah. And I'll bring that up at the next cabinet meeting which is Friday and I'll find out. Yeah.

[00:15:08]>> Val.

[00:15:09]>> Hello. Um there is actually 20 million put aside for it by the government and Val knows more than me at the moment. So >> sorry. It is the old sick form at Royston end basically that is being converted into a send school. There's also going to be or at least there was I've heard proposals being floated for SRB at the academy. Don't know if that will go ahead still a new special resource base.

[00:15:43]>> Okay. Thank you.

[00:15:49]>> Anybody else? No.

[00:15:52]Thank you very much. Thank you.

[00:15:57]Burancers. Josh, you've got anything?

[00:16:02]Uh, thank you and uh good evening everyone. I don't have a huge amount.

[00:16:07]um cuz I we haven't had a vast amount of the council recently just with the sort of gap and uh you know mayor making everything but uh I'm once again on the uh regeneration development panel and I'm vice chairing that uh and I've also become leader of the labor group at the uh at the Burough Council. Uh one of the main things I thought um was of interest. You may have um heard about it, the town council, but Historic England, the Burough Council announced recently are doing a a full review for sort of down markets, historic buildings that was announced at the end of last month. It'll take a number of years, but they'll be starting, I think, some public event by the end of this year to start to talk about that. And it will also involve there'll likely be some grants, you know, to do with historic um heritage grants, that kind of thing that can be looked at and also probably some burough capital spending as well over the next few years. The idea being in some of the high footfall historic areas um you know in the sort of gateway areas to town. So probably quite a lot in my in my ward. Um but that was in the regeneration development. We recently had the sort of action plan for the uh West Norolk economic plan and that was one of the one of the things in there that that most sort of affected down. So um I think that's something that will be of interest and they'll certainly be engaging a lot with the town council you know over the next few years historic England and the BOA council because there'll be you know basically probably some pots of money to spend at some point and obviously discussions about where best and uh how best to spend that. So I think that's um something that should be quite positive but it'll be you know over the next couple of years because there'll be quite a lot to to go on. Um just also just when I had um a meeting recently with the the council leader one of one of the things we were discussing was LGR because there has been obviously some stuff in the press about whether or not that will all still happen. I think the um North K Council the new administration is is currently thinking about a legal challenge. I'm aware. Um, but it seems pretty likely a lot of people, you know, sort of connected with it think that a legal challenge probably isn't going to succeed. So whether or not the administration is working with LGR, everyone else is um sort of going ahead with it until, you know, unless it does stop, but uh it's unlikely to be stopped. So although we'll see, but anyway, any any questions from anyone?

[00:18:39]Council Park.

[00:18:41]>> Yes, Mr. Mayor. Thank you. Can I ask that the Burough Council has been res responsible for building the public toilets on the town hall or car park and also that the residents pay a special expenses for the toilets to be maintained and cleaned. This is a large amount of money. The residents have complained to me about the disgusting state of the toilets. And so over the last few months, I have checked regularly and found on every occasion they are smelly. The toilets, the tiles, the floor have not been cleaned to a good enough standard. We use the toilets in the walks in Kingslin when there is a park run with 350 400 runners. And I can say that these are 100% cleaner with no smell. I wanted to state this in public so our residents know who and visitors know who to complain to. Please can you deal with this and let's get some improvements.

[00:19:46]Thank you.

[00:19:48]>> Thank you.

[00:19:48]>> Thank you uh councelor. I'll feed that to the to the team and uh especially the comparison with the walks as you as >> I will just say that the water is just dribbling out of the taps. They need fixing. There's hardly anything coming out of them.

[00:20:03]>> Thank you very much.

[00:20:04]>> Councelor Levers, >> I brought this subject up some time ago this year. Didn't And could the clerk please, Mr. Mayor, tell us whether we've had a deep clean or not? She said that the clean up we're going to do it.

[00:20:19]Yeah. Uh well, I was I was told it has happened, so I mean I haven't checked because it's not our facility.

[00:20:25]>> Um but would you mind if I just raise something?

[00:20:28]>> Yeah. Can >> um councelor Osborne um only this week I've had someone speak to me about using the accessible toilet. They're wheelchair bound um and not ambulant at all. And trying to hold open the door and get over the step bit going in. They said it they almost wet themselves going into there. Um, so I don't know whether there's any sort of ramp that could just assist with that, but they they showed me obviously after the issue and I 100% agree with them.

[00:20:56]>> So the the step is there's >> there's like a lip, but when you're trying to open the door and also will trying to get over that lip is near on impossible.

[00:21:05]>> Okay.

[00:21:08]>> Thank you. Anybody else?

[00:21:12]>> Thank you. Can Rob, >> they were only refurbished. sort of a year ago. So, I'm surprised that they didn't meet the changing places standard.

[00:21:23]Just seems a bit >> Yeah, absolutely.

[00:21:27]>> Thank you.

[00:21:29]>> Okay. Council, thank you. Thank you.

[00:21:33]>> 3.2, please. Nobody here from the police or anything say no. We've got no report.

[00:21:39]Thank you.

[00:21:41]Members of the public, three minutes per person. I understand Jenny Grim would like to speak.

[00:21:55]Good evening counselors and thank you for listening. I'm speaking to you today as the vice chair of the twinning club of Dan and market to give you a bit of an update.

[00:22:06]Last month, the civic bond between Downham Market and Sebre in France celebrated 50 years since the mayors of both towns at that time signed the charter that started half a century of exchanges and friendship.

[00:22:26]During this time, it is no exaggeration to state that thousands of members of the local community have benefited and enjoyed the many different ways that our two towns have been twinned and linked.

[00:22:42]Generations of Downham students exchanged every year, developing friendships and understanding of the French culture.

[00:22:53]Members of down and fire service cycled to see and were entertained in style.

[00:23:01]Wrist and runners completed a memorable relay and there were annual exchanges between the town's football clubs as well as many local families and town c.

[00:23:18]These exchanges tell of the warmth, friendship, generosity, and fun of making new friends, eating new foods, and learning about a different culture.

[00:23:32]As one member so rightly said, whatever our differences, we are all the same. We all enjoy the same things and have the same problems.

[00:23:45]Certainly those involved all enjoyed and valued the twinning experience and thank the town council that 50 years ago had the wisdom to understand the very real benefits that the close relationship with a French town of similar size and makeup would bring.

[00:24:12]times move on and for a variety of reasons beyond the control of both Downham Market Town Council and Downham Twinning Club, the twinning experience of Cray came to an end at the recent AGM.

[00:24:32]However, nothing can detract from the huge success of half a century of our town's twinning experience.

[00:24:44]And on behalf of all those involved over the last 50 years, we would ask that this fine achievement is celebrated and marked by the town council who initially signed the charter.

[00:25:02]Existing members have asked that the town council purchase a bench with a commemoration plaque to celebrate the 50 years of twinning between our two towns.

[00:25:15]This bench to be cited on the memorial playing field near the Ponk pitch.

[00:25:23]It is felt that this would be a very fitting way of celebrating a very successful half century of recent Downham Market history. Uh thank you very much for listening.

[00:25:40]>> Thank you.

[00:25:43]Anybody want to make comment?

[00:25:49]>> No. Okay, move on. Thank you. Uh Jenny chair's report. Nothing much to report here. Um Chris and I went to um Peter Burough Cathedral for the inauguration of um the new mayor.

[00:26:09]And um the only uh what should I say strange thing about the day was when we got into the cathedral there was a full-size dinosaur erected. the skeleton of a dinosaur erected which um was uh quite interesting but uh like I say nothing else to report on that. It was a it was a nice day out and that was um well attended by uh many mayors from the area. Thank you.

[00:26:39]I'm moving item 10 forward.

[00:26:47]>> Sure. Council Levers, can you put your hands up so that's better?

[00:26:50]>> Could I just remind everybody about your um event on Saturday? Uh it's not actually your event, but we're serving teas and coffee and any donations. Um the RAF uh photographer uh who's now a photographer for the Burough Council at Kingslin is putting on an exhibition of RAF through his I think it's 33 years of service. Uh should be very interesting.

[00:27:16]um he did a exhibition at the minster last year and it was a huge success. I think the time is 10 to two.

[00:27:24]>> Thank you councelor Levers and may I also say uh any donations that are received will go to my charity this year the Swan Center. Thank you. I'm moving item 10 forward um mainly for our deputy uh secretary here and to see uh to bring that forward so that she can leave the meeting early for personal reasons.

[00:27:57]Okay. So we're going to now to item 10 and that is planning application rec consultation.

[00:28:09]It's item 2500961 OM a full council to determine response to outline planning application with all matters reserved apart from access for up to 260 dwellings associated facilities and infrastructure car parking open space provision and excess Access land at E561665 N 302569.

[00:28:52]It's Nightingale Lane down and market Norolk.

[00:29:00]Okay. Happy. Um so, so this application came before full council um in July last year. Um there was a whole list of um reasons to recommend refusal. The main one being that the site is not allocated for development within the local plan. Um councilors had lots of reservations about the management of the highways um for the development.

[00:29:27]um the town's physical in infrastructure not being suitable for it including drainage and sewage networks.

[00:29:35]Um the social infrastructure like the shortage of GP appointments, dental provision and school places um and there was a list and I think you've all seen that. Um so this has come back. They've made some amendments.

[00:29:49]Um, and anybody that's looked at the application will see that they have um made changes to the to the layout um but retaining the 260 houses. So, they've juggled them around a bit. Um, they've re relocated the play areas to improve accessibility.

[00:30:08]They've repositioned the aotments within the development and the um looked at again the retained water areas and significantly reduce the permanent water bodies compared with the earlier application.

[00:30:26]Um it's worth noting the comments from consultes.

[00:30:35]So, um the people that commented last time, the residents particularly in that row of houses that's um most affected by um this new application.

[00:30:48]Um there's 21 new properties going to be um adjacent to the border of the six existing properties.

[00:30:57]Um there's a whole list of um concerns about how they will be impacted during development and afterwards from a lack of privacy. Someone mentioned bat sightings um and the need to protect the environment around there um to maintain those low water pressure has been flagged um since the phase one was uh put up um and the emergency link road on onto wriston end um is a cause for concern that it will be used for non-emergencies by residents who just want to access the town by an unsuitable route.

[00:31:38]Um the drainage board seems to be reasonably happy. The inte integrated care board seem to accept that they've made amendments according to their comments. Um as does the environmental quality um consulty.

[00:31:54]So it's for us really or for you to decide whether you want to um recommend refusal again or whether you think that they've done enough to go ahead with it.

[00:32:07]discuss.

[00:32:10]>> Okay. Has anybody got any comments on this >> against the moes?

[00:32:18]>> Has the uh the plan site? They will, I imagine, have to have an environmental check on the um animal welfare and birds.

[00:32:28]>> Yeah.

[00:32:29]>> They'll have to have an inspection on the site, I would imagine, for that.

[00:32:32]Would they?

[00:32:33]>> So, if that >> Yeah. If that does pass then then obviously that'll be all clear. Also I just have to say one thing.

[00:32:43]So, one of my first meetings and a planning meeting a lot of years ago now or several is that I got told I asked um about the infrastructure for the town and it won't be able to cope for any more large development because the town can't cope with the dentists and the doctors what it has now. And I got told that uh infrastructure um will come afterwards.

[00:33:14]It will develop later. Um I've not yet seen another dentist, doctors or anything been built in this town and we're now probably getting on for now,500 more people now going to be living on these sites. So yeah, infrastructure doesn't seem to count. not when it comes to passing these estates um by the power of council.

[00:33:45]>> Okay. Do we have any >> Can you put your hands above your head?

[00:33:50]So, yes, it's good, George, because um you've got your hand. I can't see whether it's gone past your jumper or not.

[00:33:57]>> Yeah. Sorry. Um I don't believe anything's changed since the first application. Um the road past this had the old six form school was a single carriageway. Um I don't believe we'll ever stop the residents of the developing that site being able to use that and access straight into town. If we allow this to go ahead I genuinely believe within the next 15 years they'll go all the way through the back end of that and end up back on Beexville Road.

[00:34:24]Yeah. Um, at what point do we turn around and say unless we see something happening in terms of infrastructure?

[00:34:31]Where's the green fields? Where's the They've put some small playing areas, play parts. If you look at all the other estates, all the play parts that are on them areas are now going to rock and run. They're not being looked after.

[00:34:43]They're not being cared for. Yeah. There is nothing to give kids 260 houses, 700 more people. Yeah. Where are they going?

[00:34:54]Where's the facilities for them? Where's the school? Hillrest school is overs subscribed this year for the intake.

[00:35:02]Yeah. And they have a waiting list at Hillrest. Um I'm not sure about Clark Close, but I think Clark Close is very similar. So where do the children who come into these houses, where do they even get a school place? The infrastructure just isn't there? And unless there's significant investment in the infrastructure, we should just keep refusing.

[00:35:28]>> Well, I think councelor Dixon's just said it all to be honest with you. Um, I looked at the plans. It isn't changed much from the first plan. So, I think our original objections stand to be honest with you.

[00:35:42]>> Councelor um, Lewis.

[00:35:45]>> Yeah. is regards to emergency vehicles and what have you, they can't be coming up wrist and end. Um, if they thought that was close enough for the police station, fire station, then they're very much mistaken because it may not be down that arrive there. It may be a fire engine from Kingslin, Methwald, Outwell, even Little ambulance might be coming from Wisbage, Elely, probably even further a field Kingslin. They're not all based in in town. So I think that's that's a no no to have that >> council part. Yeah, I I would refuse this if it was left to me and because I believe that the wriston road will be used as a run rat run and I I believe also that the people who live there deserves our support that we've turned this down and I agree with what George was saying about the the amount of infrastructure we've missing before we even start. I think we should refuse this on several grounds, especially what the cler, deputy clark said earlier. Um, obviously I haven't read it all, but I agree that most of it is wrong. So I I think we should refuse it and I propose that if anybody stop talking.

[00:37:04]>> Okay, councelor Robbie is seconding that. Thank you. We all agree >> for refusing. to refuse.

[00:37:14]>> That's all. Thank you.

[00:37:17]>> Thank you, counselors.

[00:37:23]>> Okay, Tina.

[00:37:25]>> You may leave when you wish.

[00:37:32]Item five, we've had uh that cancelled, so we'll move on to minutes to approve the minutes of full council meeting held on the 19th of May 26. Could I have a proposal for that, please? Chris has proposed second.

[00:37:52]Council >> can leave us. Yeah. or agree.

[00:37:59]>> Councelor Cumber Rob, are you agreeing?

[00:38:02]>> Yes.

[00:38:02]>> Yep.

[00:38:04]>> That's all. Thank you.

[00:38:09]>> Item seven, committee minutes to note the minutes of the planning committee um 5th of May 2026.

[00:38:22]I'll propose those minutes. um to the council. Um unfortunately, councelor Dame is not here to do it. So I I would ask you to accept the minutes of those of that meeting second.

[00:38:37]>> Yeah.

[00:38:39]>> Excellent. Councelor Lane seconded all agree that >> that's all. Thank you.

[00:38:47]>> To note the minutes of the property committee 13th of May 26. Councelor Jordan.

[00:38:54]>> Yeah. I'd like to ask full council to accept uh the minutes of the property committee the 13th of May, please.

[00:39:02]>> I'll second that.

[00:39:04]>> Yeah.

[00:39:09]>> And I will agree.

[00:39:13]>> That's all. Thank you.

[00:39:17]Item eight, a motion for the complaints consider the complaints consider issuing a formal apology to councelor Brewer in relation to the allegations made and any reputational emotional harm that may have risen as a result.

[00:39:38]>> Can we have a named vote please for this one? Just I think councelor Grover isn't here but he wants more.

[00:39:46]>> He is.

[00:39:47]>> Oh, he is right there. Sorry.

[00:39:50]Sorry.

[00:39:54]>> Grover.

[00:39:58]>> Yeah. Good evening all. Um I've written this uh so I don't lose track of myself.

[00:40:03]So excuse if it sounds a little bit clinical. Um firstly, I believe there may be some who might feel this resolution should have been pulled until after the planned mediation meeting or that I seek to point the finger of accusation. In the first part, unless we are expecting mediation to reverse the decision of the DMO, I cannot see the merit for delay as it is those seven notices that have already been issued and have no system for appeal that I am asking for an apology to be given. And secondly, and this is most important, I will go on record here and now that I will take this same stance for anyone else in this team who ever finds themselves in the same position that councelor Brewer was put in, regardless of any personal feelings I may have towards them. And all I am asking is that council accept that councelor Brewer was found innocent of all seven charges leveled against her and to publicly acknowledge that the basis for those complaints were found incorrect by the DMO in his replies. And I am also of that same opinion for whatever historic cases there may have been comp where complaints were not upheld but unfortunately no apologies issued afterwards.

[00:41:24]And I'd like just like to say we're raised to accept that when we make a mistake, we say sorry afterwards as the first step to healing any rift. And I believe the same courtesy should be afforded to councelor Brewer and to show the residents of Downham who we serve that we have the integrity to p put aside personal feelings and admit when we get things wrong. I'm not asking that councilors ask councelor Brewer for forgiveness as too much water has flowed under the bridge, but simply for council to offer an apology with the hope that this might be the first step in reconciling our differences before mediation. If we cannot do this simple thing, I have serious doubts that we'll ever be able to move on as it's affecting how we work. Thank you for your attention.

[00:42:15]So you've obviously proposed that councelor Grover and councelor Rob was seconded it.

[00:42:22]Okay.

[00:42:26]Those in favor >> just sec.

[00:42:45]upstairs.

[00:42:49]>> Okay. Those against >> those against.

[00:42:56]>> Yeah.

[00:42:58]I'm in there.

[00:43:04]I'm staying.

[00:43:13]We still got someone that hasn't just >> abstain.

[00:43:20]>> Mr. Mayor, we've got people talking. The public are talking.

[00:43:24]>> Can everybody stay quiet, please, so we can conduct business.

[00:43:31]pass.

[00:43:39]>> Yes, it pass.

[00:43:41]>> Yeah, that pass.

[00:43:50]>> Thank you.

[00:43:52]So, we move on.

[00:43:57]Yeah.

[00:44:04]>> Yeah. We're waiting for Councelor Brewer to come back.

[00:44:07]>> Yeah, that's what we're waiting for.

[00:44:08]Councelor B.

[00:44:10]>> My dad's gone.

[00:44:11]>> It's all right. Councelor Campbell Rob.

[00:44:13]Somebody's gone.

[00:44:15]>> Yeah. Yeah. Somebody's gone for her.

[00:44:27]Oh my god.

[00:44:29]Okay.

[00:44:50]Yes, >> as you're now discussing different things.

[00:44:55]>> Thank you for your attendance and coming to see us your first opportunity and we look forward to seeing you on other occasions.

[00:45:04]>> Don't forget information.

[00:45:10]>> Thank you very much.

[00:45:11]>> Thank you very much.

[00:45:21]Okay, we move on.

[00:45:24]Code of conducts complaints letter to formally receive the letter dated 11th of May 2026 from the deputy monitoring officer and agree the next steps.

[00:45:41]Do you need to >> if you want to?

[00:45:44]>> Yeah.

[00:45:46]Proposing.

[00:45:46]>> So, councilors, we've had one uh recommendation from the Burough Council and that has come in at £1,000 plus travel expenses for one mediation session. Um I've sent out another email um asking um a barristister for their charges and I'm looking for another one at the moment. Um the mayor and I spoke about this earlier and my feeling is that it would still be prudent to get three um uh >> Thank you, Deputy Mayor. Um three quotes on this. Um you'll find out later in the meeting that there will be an extraordinary meeting called in the next couple of weeks anyway. Um so I don't think it's going to hold too much up if we just wait for that those quotes.

[00:46:34]>> Okay, we don't have to Okay.

[00:46:39]Open 10. We've just done 11.

[00:46:44]>> Sorry.

[00:46:49]>> Um, sorry.

[00:46:51]>> In relation to this, the training that's going to happen, when's it going to happen? What's the proposal behind that?

[00:46:57]Is it going to be during the week? Is it going to be in an evening? Is it when's it going to happen?

[00:47:01]>> The date.

[00:47:02]it's it's all right saying we're going to go and we're going to get this and we're potentially going to do it, but unless we're going to do it at a time that's suitable that means the majority of the people can actually attend and I'm looking around the room there's a significant number of people here who work which puts a daytime out of the question. So when are we going to sort that part out because there's no point going out getting a quote and they come back and say I can only do these times if that doesn't suit what we can do. So I think what we need to do is we need to decide as a council what's the what the most suitable time to ensure everybody gets the opportunity to attend. Yeah. And then we go back to the potential um people who are going to do it and say it will be at these times. Yeah. Rather than them telling us when their availability is, we should be telling them when our availability is. I believe the clerk was referring to availability of time when it can happen and not times for the the meeting that needs to be discuss discussed when we find out who is going to come and what we want from them. Can >> I just >> Yeah, you can ask.

[00:48:12]>> Can I just clarify? Are you asking about the GDPR training or are you talking solely about the mediation?

[00:48:19]>> Okay. I got to say the training has been booked for the 16th at 6 PM so that the majority that work will be able to attend just to confirm that >> and yeah and I would suggest that you know 6 or 7:00 at night would be the best time for mediation so that everybody can attend >> and do you know I'm sorry do you know how long that's going to last? So what's the what's been proposed is that at 6:00 to 8:00 6:00 till 7:00 how long do you think it's going to take for this mediation? Well, we normally run two hours, don't we?

[00:48:52]>> Yeah.

[00:48:52]>> I mean, the one that I sent out to council, it says on the the process on the day is up to 2 and 1/2 hours facetoface session with breaks and refreshments with the rules of engagement being clearly um agreed. a joint session so that all parties have three to five minutes each uninterrupt uninterrupted speaking time and this would be followed by a joint mediator session to discuss the issues with a neutral third party present. So that's what they've suggested is 2 and a half hours.

[00:49:21]>> Apologies Claire, I missed that. Um I've only just got back off holiday and I've been through hundreds and hundreds of emails. I've missed that one.

[00:49:28]>> I mean I was looking at a 6:00 session so that the majority of you that are working are finished by 5. That gives an hour to be able to get something in your, you know, eating wise. Gives me time to eat before I'm sitting down to it as well.

[00:49:45]>> Council Grover.

[00:49:47]>> Um, yeah. Can we just clarify? I'm I'm um a bit confused. We're doing GDPR training.

[00:49:53]>> Yeah.

[00:49:53]>> Was it ever mentioned that we would be doing mediation training prior to a mediation meeting or have I got the wrong end of the stick? Is it just going to go straight to a mediation meeting?

[00:50:05]>> Straight to the mediation meeting.

[00:50:08]>> So the burough council have recommended mediation. The as say the one that has replied has said she's happy to go through the process before we all meet, answer any burning desire questions, concerns, etc. Um, and then the meeting on site would be up to 2 and a half hours face to face sort of mediating.

[00:50:30]And then if you're getting somewhere, the idea obviously that's why she's charging per session is you'd you'd imagine that you'd then book another mediation session. If it's not beneficial to all, then I would imagine after one session that would be the end of it. But that would be obviously led by what happens on the night.

[00:50:55]Okay.

[00:51:00]>> Okay. We'll move on to review delegation arrangements to committee subcommittees, staff and other local authorities standing order 5JV to consider approval of planning protocol.

[00:51:28]Where we go with this? You're to speak.

[00:51:31]>> What do you want me to speak?

[00:51:32]>> Yeah.

[00:51:33]>> So, councilors, you may remember that on the 19th of May, this was delayed pending planning committee re-reviewing um at the request of the chair of the committee. This has now happened. Um you will remember that um the administrator Luke Griffin sent it out on Friday. Um so, you should have had time to have read that. Um and hopefully you're supportive of what the planning committee have put forward. So really, unless you want to debate on it, it's a case of just voting to support it and then put it in place.

[00:52:05]>> Okay. Can we vote on that then, please?

[00:52:07]Those that support it.

[00:52:10]>> Are you proposing councelor Campbell?

[00:52:11]Rob.

[00:52:12]>> Yeah.

[00:52:13]>> Thank you, Council Lane. Second.

[00:52:15]>> I would also like to mention with the neighborhoods plan, there is an interactive version of it. I've sent the link round >> the local plan.

[00:52:24]>> Local plan.

[00:52:24]>> Yeah. Yeah. neighborhood plan.

[00:52:27]>> Apologies, councelor. So, we've got proposed by councelor Campbell. Rob, seconded by councelor Lane, would you mind just raising your hands to show you're in favor again? Apologies.

[00:52:35]>> So, that's everybody in favor. Thank you.

[00:52:41]>> 12.

[00:52:43]Appointment of members to existing committees standing order 5J 87 namely finance and general purposes committee for council to des determine the method of appointment and appoint members to the finance and general purposes committee.

[00:53:09]Who wants to start this? Anybody come?

[00:53:15]>> Councelor Dixon.

[00:53:18]>> Um, we discussed this at the last meeting. There's been a couple of emails sent by forwards. Um, councelor Peg um, kindly answered my email. Um, I believe the current seven members who sat in that committee should be reelected.

[00:53:32]There's there's only seven members at current.

[00:53:34]>> Nine.

[00:53:36]>> Nine.

[00:53:36]>> Nine.

[00:53:37]>> There was only seven on it last year.

[00:53:40]>> Nine. Was it?

[00:53:45]>> Sorry, it was nine. Yeah, we increased it. Apologies. Then the current nine members, if the nine members want to retain their place in that committee, then they should be allowed to do so.

[00:54:01]>> Do you want to put the legal point on that?

[00:54:06]>> Um, the mayor's just asked me to make the legal point. um annually you're um putting the membership of the existing committee. It does not necessarily mean that the same members need to be reelected. So, but there is no reason why you can't. Council Grover.

[00:54:22]>> Yeah. Didn't we not um set the precedent at the last meeting where we just the the the only question was um do we agree to keep all the same members? Should do we not should we not follow the same president >> as that? I'm not too sure. I I I I would be led by your advice.

[00:54:39]>> If there's any members that don't want to be on it that were on it, then we ought to have a raise of hands of those that want to be on it.

[00:54:48]>> Councelor Lever, >> there were two were two members that wanted to go on here. One of Jul has she changed her mind.

[00:55:05]>> Yeah. I was just waiting to see if there was any plan or how you want them to proceed. Um, but I would say if the nine people who were on the previous committee would like to stay on the committee, I I would be quite happy for that to go ahead. Um, and then uh it can all be done and dusted and sorted and uh carry on to the next hands of those people from the original. I think you're in the same position you were last time because councelor B Moises said that she wanted to be here in it. She's already raised that she's not here to withdraw from it unless any counselor knows of any reason that she's withdrawing. Um so I think you need to say that she's one of the people in the mix. So you currently have as far as I'm aware 10 people interested in nine places.

[00:55:58]El P.

[00:55:59]>> Yeah, we um actually all the other committees were asked if they wanted to stay on that committee first and then if there was any vacancies, they were then asked to do to propose somebody else to come on board. So it's only right that this should be acted on the same way is to find out if the existing committees need to stay on it as you did at the last meeting. You can't change it because it doesn't suit.

[00:56:27]>> Well, we're not trying to change it.

[00:56:29]We're trying to get everybody happy.

[00:56:30]Really, >> the answer is to get ask the people who were on there originally if they want to be on there this time. And if they don't, then you can ask the other two if they would like to put theelves forward.

[00:56:42]>> Can we identify that please? Those that were on the committee and want to stay on the committee, can you raise your hands, please?

[00:56:51]>> Finance and General 1.

[00:57:07]>> Yes. So all nine want to be on it.

[00:57:09]>> Okay.

[00:57:12]>> Thank you.

[00:57:15]>> Right. So C full council have the overall decision on anything that happens. They are the corporate body, the statutory body. Therefore, if you wish to propose and second and vote in favor of those remaining on, you have that power. But also, you you need to be minded that there is a member not here and whether you are disregarding their request. There is no legal reason why you can't disregard their request. But as I say, that is something you need to be mindful of. But from an insurance perspective, this cannot carry on because we have an insurance requirement that things like the bank wreck have to be approved every 30 days. That is in our insurance. So if we're not going to have the committee, it needs to go back to it coming back to full council every month. Otherwise, we will be uninsured if there is a theft of money or some fidelity issue.

[00:58:05]>> I suggest um we Yes. Councelor Moses quickly.

[00:58:11]Can you tell me there's a rule in your rule book for only nine counselors on per committee?

[00:58:21]But it's not my rule book. The terms of reference were agreed by full council.

[00:58:25]Full council decided the membership of each committee. It was full council that decided nine members. The terms of reference were agreed on the 19th of May. Therefore, you have directed that you want nine members on there as full counsel.

[00:58:40]We need to move this on counselors and if somebody will propose that please and second it >> I propose that the nine who's on there stay on there >> and that was councelor um >> as well >> councelor peg seconding >> all in favor >> okay that's all thank you >> thank you councelor because that had the potential of taking up quite a lot of time tonight.

[00:59:10]Thank you. Right.

[00:59:13]Jubilee Community Center >> Jubilee Community Center working part is merger to consider and agree the merger of the Jubilee Community Center business plan working party and the Jubilee Community Center terms and conditions of use working party.

[00:59:39]Sorry, lost my line. with all current members transferring to the Jubilee Community Center business working party plan.

[00:59:55]>> Councelor Lewis.

[00:59:56]>> Yeah, Mr. Mayor, I think um it's only logical that we do uh merge these two.

[01:00:00]It saves um the office time. Um we're dealing with virtually everything as a one as a whole. Um, so I'll propose that we do merge these two together.

[01:00:12]>> Okay. Are you proposing that councelor?

[01:00:15]Yeah. You'll second that. Thank you very much. All in favor?

[01:00:19]Thank you. Young man on that as well.

[01:00:21]>> Councelor Dixon, were you in favor?

[01:00:23]Yeah. So that's all. Thank you.

[01:00:25]>> Good.

[01:00:27]Okay. Item 14, Hale Communities Association charity number 108178.

[01:00:37]Update to note that the Charity Commission has confirmed that the Hale Community Association Charity number 1018178 has been removed from the central register of charities. This change will be reflected in the public register of charities within the next 5 days.

[01:01:03]So councilors, I confirm that I received my email on Monday saying that it's no longer registered >> and that one's been a long while going through as well. Thank you, >> Dixon.

[01:01:17]>> Councelor Dixon, >> can I ask a question on that? There was a load of money that sat in the charity account. Where's that money now going to go?

[01:01:26]>> It's currently in earmarked reserves. It was transferred, I believe, on the 2nd of April from memory. Um, that money can only be spent on the improvement of the JCC for the benefit of the community.

[01:01:38]It's still got its restrictions, which is why it's in the ear reserves.

[01:01:42]>> Thank you.

[01:01:43]>> Thank you.

[01:01:44]>> Anybody else?

[01:01:46]No. Thank you.

[01:01:49]Car park orders.

[01:01:51]Commencement of legal process and appointment of specialist consultant to consider commencing the preparation of new car parking new car park orders and appointing a specialist consultant to support the process want to speak.

[01:02:11]>> Council P.

[01:02:13]>> Yeah. Um I've got to read it out because I can't always remember what I've said.

[01:02:18]>> Well, we're all like that. supports that >> you will do when you get to 80.

[01:02:24]>> As the chair of car park orders working party, I'm pleased to present this report and recommendation to the full council.

[01:02:32]The working party was established to explore practical solutions to the parking issues that have been raised by the residents, shoppers, and businesses over a number of years. Since the previous parking orders were revoked in 2019, the council has had limited powers to manage its car parks and address issues such as vehicles being left for extended periods, lack of space turnover, and inappropriate use of car parks.

[01:03:06]The recommendation before the council tonight is to commence the legal process and public consultation required to introduce new car parking orders. This is not the final decision on parking orders themselves but approval to begin the formal process.

[01:03:26]The subject to council approval, the draft orders should be issued with consultation which would include provisions such as no vehicles over 3.5 tons, no caravans or trailers, no overnight sleeping, blue badge parking on the same terms as all the other users, no cooking, no selling goods, food, drink or other items, no erection of structures such as tents, boos, or stands. No vehicle maintenance except where necessary to leave the park car park. No cycling, skateboarding, ball games, or similar activities unless authorized.

[01:04:10]No threatening, abusive, or disorderly behavior. Animals to be properly controlled or confined within the vehicles with adequate ventilation.

[01:04:21]No abandonment of shopping trolley except in designated areas.

[01:04:26]The draft proposal would also include the introduction of free parking tickets issued through a pay and display machine to support a maximum stay of 3 hours between 8 and 6:00 p.m. with no return within 1 hour operating across all town car parks, town hall council car parks.

[01:04:49]This would improve parking turnover while still allowing residents and visitors sufficient time to shop, access service and enjoy the town. The working party has met with the officer of the burough council in of Kingslin and West Norolk and received a re advice from Steve Thompson, the specialist in parking consultant. Steve has confirmed that the new parking orders can be prepared and consulted upon within the relevant short time scale and would provide the legal framework necessary to properly manage the council car parks. I therefore ask members to support the recommendation to commence the parking orders process and allow residents and business and stakeholders the opportunity to have their say through a formal consultation process before any final decision are made.

[01:05:48]>> Thank you.

[01:05:49]>> Thank you councelor Rob. With regards to free tickets issued by means of a pay and display machine, it might be more intelligent to use automated and number plate recognition where we record your car coming in, we record it coming out and we essentially if you are there for more than 3 hours, you get a ticket. It would be far better than a pay machine because then there's not the risk of this people.

[01:06:16]that was discussed and we found that the the waiting for the consultant to come through because we'll take it further from here. This is just asking for the consultant to come through. Um the question of ARPR versus straight metering was a m matter of cost at the time. Uh but certainly something we can continue to consider but at the moment we're just looking at meters. Thanks.

[01:06:39]Can I also >> can I just mention >> um and counselors the other point on that was it wasn't possible to have AMPR in the Holl um number two car park councelor Patt >> the big one >> the big one >> yes number one >> um because there's multiple entry and exit points so that was ruled out anyway with speaking with the burough counselor >> councelor Lewis how does this um 3hour hours and no return work for people that actually work in the town. Um, have they got to come out of work, go and get another ticket, go and move the car? Cuz if we move one car park to another, >> how is this going to work?

[01:07:22]>> As I understand it, all these um car parking meters, they're intelligent.

[01:07:29]They talk to one another and you can't just move from one park to another. It will register you. So, where are the workers going to park their cars in town? Are they going to block up all the roads around town? Um, just asking. I I I get it for for people coming and using our car parks to leave the cars there and then go on the train. I get that and that because we don't want that to happen because that does put shoppers off. But for people actually work in like the doctors, um, any of the other shops around here and what have you, where are they going to go? Have they got to come out of work?

[01:08:05]>> I think >> what's what's going to happen?

[01:08:06]>> I think there's more Well, there's definitely more consultation to go on with this. Like um council said, this is just to to get it set up to go and we need more time and bring it back to council to >> I know this might sound dar, but a free 10-hour stay so the workers can park for nothing would be better. those that are then using it for their own a car park should I say would um sort of uh well >> more more work's got to be done >> there's plenty of chuggling going on the background so I'll leave it there >> council moises >> can the chairman uh in likeness to what the costs of um these ticket machines are going to be to the town and the rate payers >> can't yours >> through the chair because he didn't move.

[01:08:55]>> Yeah, you can get >> Yeah.

[01:08:57]>> Yeah. Um, at this moment I think we just talk about the consultation.

[01:09:03]>> We need to get forward yet. The prices and that will all be addressed as soon as the consultation's finished. So, I'm not going to come and say prices at this time.

[01:09:15]I know I know some of them, but I don't know all of them. So, I'm not going prepared to do that tonight. I would just like the recommendation that we can continue with the consultation as per the working part has asked for.

[01:09:27]>> Yeah.

[01:09:28]>> Yeah. Can I just say councelor Mo is that this with the working party is not a decision maker. The working party collects the evidence and brings it to council.

[01:09:39]>> I'm just thinking that probably would have been a good idea to had the costs before you're asking us to vote to take this any further. you. I think I would definitely wanted all the information, but that's probably just me.

[01:09:51]>> You would have all the information before it comes to full council.

[01:09:55]>> When it comes to full information, >> you can give it. Yeah.

[01:09:59]>> Yeah. So, the approximate cost of a machine is £3,100 including VAT. Um, and if it was solar, it would be approximately 3,500 per machine. The recommendation was if there's more than 40 spaces in the car park, there should be multiple machines.

[01:10:20]>> What is the cost of the monitoring the traffic wardens?

[01:10:26]>> Um, we haven't had that quote through from the burough council yet. Um, we're waiting for that to come and it's expected by the end of the month.

[01:10:35]>> All right. cuz I I've had figures thrown at me before and I was told that it's going to be the town's going to end up paying for the uh amount of money that the parks won't bring in to cover the uh traffic wardens costs.

[01:10:50]>> Well, the working party have asked that the traffic wardens lies in the same respect of when they're doing the on street parking, they would then do the car parks. Um obviously there would need to be a little bit of >> extra uh change in the dates just so that people can't say that the parking officer only comes on Thursday, Friday, Saturday. There would have to be a slight randomness in it.

[01:11:14]>> Um but that is something that we're getting quotes for at the moment.

[01:11:18]>> And obviously that'll be an extra charge for doing all the other car parks.

[01:11:22]>> There will be a charge, but it'll be a lot less because the officers from the burough are already in the town. Um so when they have to wait for the parking bays that are 30 minutes and 1 hour, they would then go around our car park.

[01:11:34]I'm not saying they would do it for free because they they are the same as us.

[01:11:37]They are a council having to cover their costs, but it certainly would be um significantly less than what we've previously looked at with private companies.

[01:11:46]>> Thank you very much.

[01:11:48]>> So, can we have a councelor Graver?

[01:11:52]>> Yeah, Ju just to answer councelor Moyes there. Um I'm not too sure if we're aware that any revenue that we take in from um parking fines apart from a a kind of a a set fee I believe for administration um all parking fines will come back to the council. So it is will be um it will be our money.

[01:12:16]>> Can I just answer that?

[01:12:17]>> Yeah. Um >> yeah so just to put people's um concerns at ease obviously the aim is not to be issuing the fines. The fines are there for those that are not following what the clear instructions are. The cost to us from the burough council would be £660 per ticket issued. Um and the fines are a legal maximum um that are set by central government. So we can't set them at some astronomical level. Um from memory and I apologize if this is wrong but I believe the maximum was £70.

[01:12:51]Payment within 14 days went down to £35.

[01:12:54]I think that is currently where we're sitting at the moment. It's certainly no higher than that.

[01:12:59]>> It It's not at the rate that National Cars used to use.

[01:13:02]>> No, >> I've had one of them.

[01:13:07]>> No.

[01:13:11]>> Right.

[01:13:13]>> So, can we have a a proposed >> George? Yeah.

[01:13:17]>> Yeah. I just want to move on. I'll second Chancellor P's proposal.

[01:13:24]Okay.

[01:13:27]Raise your hands on that please for >> Okay. Those against.

[01:13:33]>> Those against.

[01:13:36]>> Councelor Moes.

[01:13:38]>> Councelor Lane.

[01:13:38]>> Council Lane.

[01:13:39]>> Hang on a second.

[01:13:40]>> Councelor Lane. Councelor Leech.

[01:13:41]>> And Council Leech.

[01:13:42]>> So those against Councelor Esmoises, Councelor Lane, and Councelor Leech. I haven't missed anyone, have I? No. And abstain.

[01:13:50]Have >> we got any extensions?

[01:13:52]>> Any extensions?

[01:13:55]>> No, I think we got the lot.

[01:13:56]>> So that's passed.

[01:13:57]>> Thank you.

[01:14:01]Item 16, bank reconciliation and bank statements, April 26. To receive, approve, and sign off the bank reconciliation for April 2026 and to note and sign off the associated bank statements.

[01:14:24]Yes. So, councilors, you've all received it. um you would have received it on the 4th of June all statements and the bank wreck. So it if you're happy with it, I'll ask you to propose and second it please leave us.

[01:14:39]>> Councelor Lane. Councelor levers.

[01:14:43]All in favor?

[01:14:45]>> All in favor?

[01:14:47]>> Yeah, we've got >> George.

[01:14:52]>> Okay, so one abstension. Thank you very much. That's passed.

[01:14:56]Can you just sign that for me?

[01:14:58]>> Yeah.

[01:15:00]It won't look like anything or will look like anything actually.

[01:15:06]>> Thank you.

[01:15:16]Internal audit visit and AAR preparation update and sign off to receive and an update on the internal auditor's visit and the preparation of the annual governance and accountability return agar and to consider and approve the relevant documentation for sign off where appropriate.

[01:15:44]>> Happy for me to go. happy for me to go.

[01:15:47]>> Yeah.

[01:15:48]>> So, councilors, as I alluded to earlier, this is where the extraordinary meetings coming in. It's not unusual. I think we've had an extraordinary meeting for the AAR practically every year that I've worked for the council. Um, the internal audit has happened. The mayor met with the internal auditor and has had feedback, but I've not received any written feedback at the moment. So, I've asked the mayor not to generalize at the moment until I've actually seen it in writing. Um, the date has been picked that you will be calling it and I believe it's next Thursday from memory, but obviously you will be summoned in due course and receive the necessary paperwork.

[01:16:23]>> That will be quite a short meeting.

[01:16:25]>> I hope so.

[01:16:36]Item 18, Jubilee Community Center container purchase and budget approval to consider a recommendation from the property committee to approve the purchase of container containers for use by the football club including a budget of £10,000 to for purchase installation security and associ iated costs and to agree that any arrangement will be by way of rental or license agreement.

[01:17:19]>> Councelor Jordan.

[01:17:20]>> Councelor Jordan, would you like to talk on this subject?

[01:17:26]>> Yes. Can I ask do I need to leave or do I okay to s and can I ask for a dispensation to say something before you even talk to this because I think this is absolutely stupid. I don't know where this has come from. I know it's come from the football apologies but I don't know absolutely when I read that on the agenda I was absolutely flabber.

[01:17:49]What I'm going to say is >> councelor Dixon, can I just suggest you get the dispensation to speak first?

[01:17:59]>> Can I ask for dispensation as well then please?

[01:18:02]>> I think that would be a good idea.

[01:18:04]>> So I need a proposer to provide both these gentlemen with a dispensation.

[01:18:10]>> Councelor uh Brewer >> and Rob.

[01:18:13]>> Councelor Campbell Rob. All in favor pretty much everybody I think.

[01:18:20]>> Yeah. Council. Yeah. Oh, thank you.

[01:18:24]>> Now you can speak. Councelor Dixon.

[01:18:25]Apologies for >> Yeah. Put Put your mic on.

[01:18:28]>> I've absolutely no idea where this has come from. Um and I'm a bit flabbergasted. The sex with the football club. Um, and what I'm really perturbed about is you're potentially going to spend £10,000 to buy containers when I can go to the Football Foundation tomorrow and get a grant at 75% funding through the Football Foundation to put storage containers anywhere I want with permission.

[01:18:55]Why is the council proposing to spend money when we can get 75% funding? And I know what you're going to say. It came from the chairman of the club. Um I my personal feeling is we should take this away. We should have another meeting at the football club and then we should come back with a prop a pro an alternative proposal which is potentially for the same thing to store containers but for the football club to get the containers for them to belong to the football club and for us to remove them when we no longer need them there.

[01:19:26]>> Cer.

[01:19:28]>> Right. Okay then.

[01:19:29]>> Yeah. You take it back to the chairman and we'll bring it back for another meeting then.

[01:19:34]>> Simple as that.

[01:19:35]>> I just don't see the point else to say on it then.

[01:19:38]>> Council money >> not across not not across the sorry chamber please.

[01:19:42]>> Sorry.

[01:19:42]>> Yeah.

[01:19:44]>> Councelor Lewis can >> through through yourself. Councelor Dixon, can we have that back by the 23rd of June?

[01:19:53]>> Then it can be I'm sure it can be dealt with.

[01:19:57]Um then is everybody happy with that?

[01:20:00]>> Thank you.

[01:20:01]>> Council levers.

[01:20:02]>> Council levers.

[01:20:03]>> Um I just want to say that what as when we met as a property um meeting, we thought we were doing something good for to um with the relationships of the football club. So it's good that you've come tonight and told us this.

[01:20:19]>> Thank you. Anybody else know? Good.

[01:20:23]Thank you. We'll move on.

[01:20:27]Gray two listening uh town clock cleaning and restoration works to consider a recommendation from the property committee to approve specialist cleaning and restoration restoration works to the town's grade 2 listed heritage clock and to allocate a budget of up to 10,000 to cover the works contingency and associated costs. Now, I'm just going to talk on this for a second because I was uh in on this um meeting with the property and it is not just to wash the thing down and paint it or do something silly like that. It is to refurbish it properly by a reputable uh company. And I understand that it wasn't just the outside of the clock that was done last time. It had to be done on the inside also professionally to stop it rusting inside or corroding inside and and keep the clock in a good condition.

[01:21:32]So I'll leave that there and we'll leave that open to discussion now please.

[01:21:39]Anybody got anything else to say?

[01:21:41]Councelor Lane. Well, I think it's money well spent cuz everybody who comes to the town always takes a picture of the clock.

[01:21:51]>> Well, it is almost a mascot here, isn't it? So, um I I know that sounds a lot of money and I know that the specialist companies do charge quite a lot, but we need somebody who's good enough to do this clock and keep it in pristine condition. Castler Peg, sorry.

[01:22:09]>> Yeah, thank you. I think um from previous uh experience on this one, the um clock does need a specialist. We've had people come, we wanted people to come and paint it or whatever, and they said, "No, it's too it's too uh too much of a job for them." And uh this is why we had to get the specialists in. It wasn't so much the outside, it was the inside because the inside was corroding quite badly and they came and dealt with it. They um whatever they did, I don't know, but it was done and I think that cost quite a lot of money then. Um it is a heritage thing for us. It's got to be done and we can't get away from it.

[01:22:52]>> Thank you.

[01:22:54]>> Claire would like to speak.

[01:22:55]>> Um counselors, can I just mention there's a lot of mention about the inside of the clock. I never once asked for the inside to be done. Um, when I sent this, I sent pictures of rust coming down the clock. I wouldn't want you to make an assumption that 10,000 is going to cover inside and outside. I very much doubt it is. I may be proven wrong. Um, but my request was the outside of the clock. So, I just want that to be clear.

[01:23:22]>> Okay.

[01:23:24]Bake.

[01:23:24]>> Yeah. Thank you. It was just the fact that I put that in because that's what happened when we added them completely before and they found the rust inside and it needed to otherwise you know it's gone.

[01:23:37]Casters >> I totally agree. This is a historical value to this town and the people and I think we all want to be a keep that clock running and looking really good.

[01:23:51]It's like a heart of the town and the community really. Councelor Grover.

[01:23:56]>> Um yeah, uh Cla um although you didn't ask for um the the quote to be for internal work, but has the price been received? Does that include any internal work that we know of?

[01:24:09]>> The what the what went to property was a guesstimate. I would put it at not even an estimate. It went in at approximately 8,000, but it depends on what work is needed. My concern is you make a decision thinking you're spending up to £10,000 and then they come back and say actually there's £10,000 of internal work as well as external. That's what I want you to be minded of. Um if you're wanting the internal done, my view would be that you wait and I go back and specifically ask what you want done so that you're voting with a full um pack of details.

[01:24:48]>> C. Well, yeah, that's fine. That's great. Um, but we all we'll need to do is for them to inspect the inside um and go from there.

[01:24:58]>> Having spent several hours up in the clock on the past times in my job, um, there's not a lot in there. It's because it was all modernized by the company that's going to do the outside.

[01:25:12]>> So hopefully if the company sees a problem inside, they will inform us on the job. Are we saying it's the same company?

[01:25:20]>> It It's the same company.

[01:25:21]>> Okay. Well, they should know what they're doing then, >> shall they? So, they are knowing what they're doing and they are the only company that would recognize the town clock to work on because of the fragility of it. It is fairly fragile, but they know exactly every inch of that clock. And they are the experts. And I'll be quite happy to propose that we we accept this quote and get on with it and see what happens. If they come up with some more money, we'll have to talk about that in the future.

[01:25:51]>> Yeah. Cas.

[01:25:53]>> Um that's exactly what I would have said. Once they're here, they will see if there's anything that needs doing.

[01:25:59]There may not be anything. I will second it if no one else come has anything else to say.

[01:26:04]>> So, who's going to propose first?

[01:26:06]>> Council quiet.

[01:26:08]>> Council Lever seconding.

[01:26:11]All in favor?

[01:26:14]>> That's all. Thank you.

[01:26:28]>> Okay. Item 20, live streaming of committee meetings to consider whether to live streaming of >> whether to live meetings.

[01:26:40]Rob, would you like to speak?

[01:26:41]>> With the existence of as I've sent round the link, it was in CLA's emails. Um, the type of kit where we can do it easily by starting a team's call with ourselves and essentially quite cheaply as well. Um, I would say so many of this council's problems begin in committee meetings where nobody knows what was said. I'm sorry to say this, but they do. um look at I'm sorry to bring up the um the letter but I will just say all of our problems start in committee meetings it seems and it's impossible for everyone to be on every committee there may be people who for instance members of the public who might want to take advantage of live streaming them as well >> thank you >> council levers >> um this this is unbudgeted um have we got any costing for each session. We're going to need at least what 10 live streaming a month.

[01:27:44]>> No, no, it's it's a it's Rob. We must go through the chair. Okay.

[01:27:54]>> Who was over here?

[01:27:55]>> C.

[01:27:56]>> Yeah.

[01:27:58]>> Uh all minutes are taken written. So anything that is said can be looked at uh in in the past and and again uh from the notes that were sent by the cler a lot of the rooms in the building are not suitable for this operation as well.

[01:28:18]Cer rob um a lot of the rooms in the building are suitable because if you look it literally is desk mounted and you do not need it literally is easy to use who doesn't press a button live stream and it's reasonably easy obviously we keep the contractor for full council as we do at the moment. Thank you. Councelor Le Moises, >> I have to agree with councelor Cumber Rob. Um I think it would be a good idea actually um not only to get all the details in the meeting. I don't think all the details are transmitted in the minutes of a meeting. Um so I think it would be good to see all the details and then also um like council Rob said this technology he's on about it's very simple to use.

[01:29:22]>> Can I make a point of order? I've already asked >> they're challenging the cler's work and that's not fair.

[01:29:29]>> Yeah. Thank you.

[01:29:30]>> Yeah. I'd just like to remind council that the minutes are a legal document.

[01:29:34]They're a legal document of decisions made. They are not a verbatim record of the meeting otherwise my 10 pages that I already do for full council would become a 100 pages and I would never get any work done. Um so I take umbrage to that comment that has been said briefly please.

[01:29:57]>> Yeah. Um I don't know whether you thought I was on about I was agreeing with you basically you can't minute everything what was said in a meeting and that is what you were telling me now. Yeah.

[01:30:09]>> Then apologies council Moyes is I misunderstood. It sounded as though you were saying that I wasn't recording everything that happened in the meeting.

[01:30:15]>> No no what I was saying basically is you can't record everything what I said in a meeting. It's not possible.

[01:30:21]>> Okay. Apologies. Um >> an apology from Council Park would be nice as well. Thank you. Councelor Perkin. Yeah.

[01:30:30]>> Could the town cler um give us an idea what the monthly cost implications would be?

[01:30:37]>> Uh councelor Perkin, I can't actually answer that question because I'm not a specialist and that was one of the many questions that I asked that I hoped councelor Campbell Rob would answer in this session. Um >> we already we we already pay for um Office 365. Included in that is Microsoft Teams. It works natively with any device which happens to connect to a laptop. It literally does just plug a plug it into a laptop.

[01:31:08]>> What's it cost?

[01:31:09]>> Um it's costs £300. We already pay for Microsoft 365. It's included in the wix.com contract which we renewed last last time. It's part of if you've got access to Outlook, which I'm sure we all do here, then we've got access to Microsoft Teams anyway. It's a piece of it's a piece of software that you're paying for without using.

[01:31:33]>> Apologies.

[01:31:34]Um, one of the questions I did raise was that in the meetings, you will notice that today I haven't, but I regularly bring my laptop where I'm working on.

[01:31:45]That laptop could not form part of that meeting because I am working on it. Um, so there are additional costs because you'd have to be purchasing whatever device is having the teams meeting on it, which would come with an additional license cost. So there are other costs that need to be considered. I'm not for or against it. I just want to make sure that council have got all the information.

[01:32:04]>> Okay. And I'd like to make a point here.

[01:32:07]Excuse me, council part. I'll just have a say.

[01:32:10]>> We were in a meeting today in the clock room and the clock room has lots of echo in it and I am skeptical whether you know the the system would work anyway all the time because there's so much echo in there you you cannot record anything. I mean um councelor uh >> lane >> lane that's the one >> here here we will verify even with um >> hearing aids you know >> I just echo in that clock room is so much you you just can't use them in there it's it's um >> and I don't think all our rooms would be suitable for it but what I will say is would you like to go uh to propose this or somebody propose this and second it or whatever.

[01:32:58]>> I would >> Can I speak on it before you do it?

[01:33:01]>> You can do it.

[01:33:02]>> Um, we're a rare event as a parish town council to even live stream this.

[01:33:10]>> There's a lot of them don't even live streaming and to start invading on the Yeah.

[01:33:15]>> committees I believe is wrong. I will not support this motion.

[01:33:20]>> Thank you.

[01:33:20]>> Because I think it's an expensive foolish hobby that we as a council shouldn't accept.

[01:33:28]So I will go against it.

[01:33:34]>> Okay. Propose.

[01:33:36]>> I will propose that we go ahead and that we start and that we go ahead and look at >> Do we have a seconder?

[01:33:46]>> Council Moes.

[01:33:49]Anyone in favor of this?

[01:33:58]>> Against and abstain.

[01:34:08]Thank you. That didn't pass.

[01:34:14]Any council's questions for future agenda items, please? Council's questions and suggestions for future agenda items.

[01:34:28]>> Yes, councelor Lane.

[01:34:29]>> Um just not observation actually. Um we've previously had committee meetings for planning and property. I don't see any HR um committee meetings. Um, have we had any minutes since March or Cer?

[01:34:48]>> Yeah, we've got a meeting >> Thursday. Sorry, Thursday. And they're all being dealt with then.

[01:34:55]>> Thank you.

[01:34:56]>> Thank you.

[01:35:00]Anything else? No.

[01:35:05]Okay. Then I join this meeting. Date of next meeting >> and date of next meeting will be the 14th of July.

[01:35:14]>> Thank you.

[01:35:14]>> Thank you.