The doctrine of the Trinity, which claims that God exists as three persons (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit) in one being, is logically incoherent because it conflates the categories of 'who' (person) and 'what' (nature/being), leading to contradictions such as having three persons yet one being, or four consciousnesses in separate places simultaneously. This philosophical framework, developed centuries after Jesus's life by non-prophetic scholars, obscures the clear biblical message that God is one and creates unnecessary barriers to understanding and relating to God.
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One Mormon, One Unitarian, One God! & One Revert Muslim ReactsAdded:
On everyone, we are back with another reaction. Um, this one seemed pretty interesting to me. Um, you know, I know [laughter] this one's already going to piss off a lot of people probably. So, and you know me, I'm not I'm never scared to, you know, cause a little bit of, I guess, chaos. But yeah, we got a very interesting video live stream today. Um, so you know, we've seen Metaphysics Mike before. We've actually reacted to one of his videos before about Unitarianism, specifically about um like did people in the first century recognize Jesus as God or did they have an understanding of uh the Trinity? It was like an AI video. I thought it was pretty uh it was pretty funny. Um and and then he's also been on um Orthodox Muslim Libyano's channel before um talking about um just unitarianism as a whole. And so you know this kind of this video popped up onto my algorithm.
Um, I am definitely fascinated like like you know we had a brother in the chat um ask about what what are my thoughts about Mormonism and then you know funny enough they had this conversation I believe yesterday.
Um no there's got to be more people who like this. Yeah, one watching now. Yes, that's me. Um and so you know hold on let me update this.
There we go. And so, yeah, we're gonna we're gonna give this one a a watch. Um, you know, I I think just seeing what the other perspectives are. Obviously, you know, um, you know, I obviously believe that Islam is the ultimate truth. Um, that's because I I believe that the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is the true prophet as well as that um that the Quran is the infallible word of God. But at the same point, I think it's interesting seeing other people's perspective, particularly a Mormon perspective and a Unitarian perspective.
And so, we'll watch this. We're going to give it a good a good listen to um I I I hope this isn't just a whole glaze glazing session. If it is, we have another video that we're going to watch as well. Um and yeah, should be should be interesting. But um yeah, we're going to we we're not going to delay too much.
We will. I I I I've been very slow to get my my next fundraiser up. Um I'm trying to lock down a couple key partners that would be fun to do this with. So, we'll see it. It's going to have to start in like five days, so I've been very slow to get this all set up, but um hopefully I can have some more announcements in the next couple days.
Well, I'm going to have to. Um if not, we're going to have to do without the partners and we're just going to have to dive into it. But it should it should be a good one. We'll be live streaming every single day for for 10 days straight. Um it's not going to be at the same level of our Ramadan fundraiser in terms of like um different content. It's just going to be just me reacting to videos probably just making it easier. I think Ramadan what I'll do yearly is um have it more um just more things to do.
I have I have some big ideas for hopefully next year's Ramadan inshallah that they can go well. But um yeah, then we'll probably do another fundraiser, like I said, coming up for the second Eid that's um for the the the Hodgej season. Um and we'll do that yearly as well. And then maybe like sometime um maybe like later in the year we'll do like another quick fundraiser as well.
So maybe like three fundraisers a year, but we'll see. We'll we'll we'll or maybe we'll do like an ongoing one.
Again, you know, we'll see how the growth of the channel goes. But definitely we'll continue to do a Ramadan fundraiser every year and then also another one for the second Eid as well. But anyways, those are just some quick administrative updates. Let's hop into this video now.
>> What's up everybody? What's up?
>> What's also funny about this, you'll see it when the when the chat starts to come through, but everyone's saying shalom to each other.
It's really funny just seeing a bunch of Christians saying shalom. I think it's great. my chair.
>> I just it's just like obviously right you can just see that the the Jewish perspective right that is is definitely heavily pushed within Christianity um and so seeing everyone say shalom is is pretty is pretty hilarious >> metaphysics Mike and if you're new here >> considering like you know if you look at um the New Testament you see Jesus say peace be with you and if he would have said it in Aramaic it would have almost said um he would have said, "Asalam alaikum." Right. Um, let me let me actually show you let me actually pull this up.
Um, nude chat.
So, show me verse in Bible where Jesus says, "Peace be with you."
Again, Jesus said, "Peace be with you."
As the father sent me, I'm sending you.
Okay. In translations, this appears to be. Okay.
What would that be in Aramaic?
Salama.
Yeah. So, it's just funny, right? It's it's like, you know, just how much people want to deny the how parallel, if not the exact same thing that [laughter] Jesus would have preached. Um, but yeah.
So, let's get into this.
>> I want to say welcome. Today, we have something pretty special. So, I don't know if you have a lot of experience on the Latterday Saint side of YouTube. I don't. And in, you know, I'm on the debate the trinity side. And amongst that, I discovered somebody that we have on the channel today. It it was like I'd never heard of him. And then all of a sudden I started seeing him everywhere and he does some damage. Yeah.
>> In these discuss >> I know I'm I'm pretty sure the guy he's referring to is the guy who debated Avery. I never watched it but I heard it was really I heard it was really good but I never watched it.
>> Discussions. It's truly an honor for me to welcome to the panel Jacob Hansen.
>> Hey Mike. Thanks for having me on.
>> Yeah of course. Thank you for coming on.
So, you know, I don't do many debate reviews on my channel, but three people that I respect told me, "You've got to see what just happened with this Latter-day Saint in God Logic." And I was like, "All right, let's let's do it." Right? So, I we did a review. It did 10,000 views. People loved it. And I was fairly blown away both at how many similarities we have uh as well as just how much you cooked. I thought you did so well in that debate. And that was just the beginning. You're you're really on this rise right now. I'm seeing you everywhere. You just did a debate.
>> How big is his this guy's channel?
Let's see. What is his name? Jacob Hansen.
Let's see about how big this guy's channel is. Jacob. Maybe it maybe Hansen.
Let's see. Yes. Oh, is this Dful Faith?
Wow, he's huge. Good for him.
Nice. Good for him.
>> With not just God Logic, but James White. You just did a discussion with Alli Bestucky. And I I personally have really enjoyed watching these, but I want to get some of your thoughts on that. So, you just went through all this, you know, I'd say a pretty awesome tour. How do you feel about what's going on on Christian YouTube? You know, what's it like with this opportunity? I just want to get your thoughts about that.
>> Well, it's been it's been weird uh if if anything. Uh definitely unexpected uh for me in a lot of ways. Um but it's been good. Um overall uh sort of Christian YouTube has been something that helped me a lot personally uh in in my own life. Um back I I often tell people I didn't go through a faith crisis.
>> Yeah. Here's the shalom.
>> I went through kind of a faith remodeling when I was confronted with sort of the new atheism and uh this this was back long time ago. Probably >> that was the one thing that IP said aspiring philosophy that I actually very much agree with when it comes to new atheism. It's like, okay, you make your point, whatever. Like, but then what's the solution? And there is no solution.
>> 2008 or nine in kind of the heyday of the new atheist. I mean, what were you in like second grade back then?
>> Yeah. Yeah, something like that. I don't know. [laughter] >> So, um I was uh about I was about 20.
>> No, wait, is that guy There's no way he was in second grade. That's that's funny.
>> He won at the time. Uh 20 >> salam too. and and I was kind of conf >> what's up, brother Muhammad. How you doing?
>> Confronting that my brother had left the faith and and was kind of confronted with atheism. And so the Christian YouTube world was something that I began to explore to kind of understand a little bit more about because I saw these debates between like William Lane Craig and others uh against the big uh John Lennox for example is one that's one of my idols. Um, and they did a really good job and I was like, "Wow, there's kind of this whole like online."
>> Is today the day? Today is not the day.
This Yeah, I know. This is the most rand I mean, I saw this pop up and I thought it was very curious and so um, you know, I just want to see what they say. You know, obviously I disagree with both of them. Well, I mean, okay, I disagree in the point where, you know, they don't recognize the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him. Um, you know, as a as a true prophet, of course, and the final prophet of Allahel, but, you know, I'm just curious on how, you know, maybe they got to their perspective or, you know, where their similar similarities are. Um, so yeah, I I I it just randomly popped up onto my channel, so we'll watch it for sure. Any cross statute? Yes. No, don't. I obviously that that that's a given. These people are cool. They're they're way better. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. So, Mike met Metaphysics. I think we watched a little bit. We reacted a little bit to the Mike Metaphysics Liiano conversation, you know. Um, right. There's a lot of agreement. It it just come like, you know, there's all of these there's all these parallels. Yeah.
And may Allah bless you more. Um, there's I mean, not parallels, there's all of these like like roads, right?
like you know when it comes to religion in my view right the question is do you believe in God yes or no right so it's either you go no and then it ends there like I'm salam or it's then yes okay so you believe in god yes or no and then it's like do you believe that god is a man or not man yes or no right and so then you can keep just diving in deeper into it and then it ultimately comes down to do you believe Jesus is the son of god yes or no um and then it comes down to like right at final level is do you believe that prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is a true prophet yes or no and so you know that's what it took for me was okay I believe in God yes do I believe that God is a man yes or no and then ultimately do I believe that the prophet Muhammad peace be upon him is a true prophet and of course I that's that's without that's that's obvious rightam and so it seems like the the meta the the conversation with Libyano met and metaphysics Mike it came to the point where right he believed all the same things but he never got to that level of actually exploring the um the validity of prophet Muhammad peace be upon him being a true prophet right and so maybe inshallah that's something that metaphysics Mike is interested in um one day um like I said if like you know like when I was a Christian um I even when I was very young like 12 13 14 I it was really hard for me to under like to even conceptualize Jesus being some level of a man god. But if someone came to me with a proper narrative of Jesus being the son of God, I could have believed it. Um just not him having a divine status. Um but you know being maybe this in like judgment day like intermediary type of individual, right? But also being a true son of God, I could have believed that. But then obviously once reading the Quran, it made complete sense to me that there's no way. Um, and it it answered all the questions that I had. And so maybe that's something that happens to Metaphysics Mike in the future. You know, may Allahel guide to the true path, but ultimately like, you know, they believe in one God, right?
You know, we can at least have a respectful conversation from here.
>> Intellectual sort of uh theological world I started looking into and I I ended up finding out that the new atheism is pretty bankrupt. And it was kind of fun to watch that get destroyed over the past, you know, decade. Um, to where now even Richard Dawkins is like, well, I'm a cultural Christian, [laughter] >> right? What what made you want to get started? You know, I noticed you have 2020 in the at the back of your tag. Did you start your channel in 2020?
>> I think that was when I first like created the channel, but I really didn't do much with it until about 2022. Um, and I actually did a debate on solos scriptura um with a couple of the deacons at James White's church. He actually he actually moderated my first debate I ever really did.
>> Cool.
>> And that debate kind of launched the channel.
>> Um, but yeah, I got into it primarily because I kind of learned about this intellectual tradition. I learned that within my own faith as a Latter-day Saint, uh, there's a very interesting and and rigorous theology. And as I learned about those things, I kind of started feeling like I wanted to share it and talk about it because I thought that there were some unique things that we brought to the table.
>> Yeah. Right. So it how do you think you've been received on obviously all the Christians that don't uh believe in latter day saint and I mean even just like myself I can identify like you know this micro narrative of what Mormons are and you want to group them in with like every other false Christian sect. And so I I mean I imagine it's been hostile.
What's what's your experience been like?
What's what's the >> I would imagine it's probably similar to yours where we both think that it's better to be a heretic than to be wrong.
And uh so yeah, one thing we have in common obviously Unitarians and Latter-day Saints, they have something in common in that we both uh reject the trinity which sits kind of as the core central doctrine of the creedle. I call it the creedle Christian tradition. So that is the the tradition that essentially says if you don't embrace these formulations in these creeds that appeared centuries after Jesus, you're out.
>> Jesus. Wow. This guy's a great speaker.
>> And we kind of were like, nah, that's we're not doing that. So um no, the the reception has been generally theologically hostile. Um but people have been pretty cool to to get to know.
Um, I think a lot of people are curious about Latter-day Saints. Um, and so they're willing to have conversations and um, I've made a lot of friends.
Honestly, most of the people I've debated, including Avery. Like Avery and I are like, we're friends, you know, and even after the debate, he like that was fun. I feel like I was like fighting with a friend instead of like, you know, with some of the Islamic debates, there's a there's some really bad blood in those.
>> Yeah.
>> So, it's been a combination of making a lot of new friends, which has been cool.
um and having a lot of hostile feelings towards certain theology and and and things that we believe.
>> Well, cool. Yeah. I just wanted to ask, you know, I imagined Yeah, it would be something similar to my experience just a lot of hostility, but that's great to hear about Oh, did we lose him?
>> Thanks for live stream. I dropped >> Jacob, are you back with us?
>> Sorry. Sorry, in the middle of the live stream I dropped off. I don't know what happened there. I think I hit a wrong button or something. Sorry.
>> No, no, fine, fine, fine. So, I I I was just saying that I really wanted to pitch that your way because I do think it would be similar obviously being a Unitarian, faced a lot of rejection, um just a lot of hostility. But I also have enjoyed building relationships. That's cool to hear with Avery, right? Still still have a good relationship, not not too much bad blood. Okay. So, I'm excited to dive into the >> which I mean, you know, we've I mean, at least me personally, I've seen people like, you know, IP and his little, you know, gang of of trinitarians.
They've, you know, they've outwardly have rejected Unitarians that said if you don't if you are a Unitarian, then you're not a Christian, right? And so maybe there's this like, you know, like and and that and that's what the Quran actually tells us, right? is that to your face they will say that they believe but then behind your back they'll say that they reject you right I'm paraphrasing here which I know I shouldn't but you know this is absolutely case in point right you know to their face they're like yeah we agree with you we agree with you we we disagree but it's okay we can be friends but then on their own individual YouTube channels they say exactly that if you are a unitarian you're definitely not a Christian >> the doctrine of the trinity with you just to learn more about your perspective about uh you know what the Book of Mormon says. And before we did that, before we do that, I want to tell you a funny story. So, in preparation to come, >> Wow, that's a that's a pretty [laughter] look at that hat. It says Jesus is not God. Wow. I wonder if he wears that in public >> to talk with you. I'm like, you know, I need to go find my Book of Mormon. So, I I went and it was, you know, just with all my other books. And then I noticed I didn't just have one, I had two. And I was like, where [laughter] I I get two Books of Mormon? Where where did this how did I get two of them? And then it hit me. Check this out.
>> So, and I'm a bit of a doofus. No, you're not. But no, we just started. Um, nice to see you. Um, Cabell or Cably. So what he's saying is is that you know these guys um outwardly reject trinitarianism but since they're like you know Christian in nature they have developed you know not hostile like hostile relationships with people like Avery. Um, even though like I said before, I've seen it, you know, be I've seen it where, you know, people like IP and his little gang of trinitarians, they've outwardly have said on their channel is that if you are a Unitarian, you are not a Christian, right? And so, um, so yeah, but again, they have this like, you know, this this label, right?
It's this name brand that they are under this Christian umbrella. So you know for so in order to you know unite against you know probably other rejectors of Christianity you know they just allow this to happen even though they both outwardly just admitted that they reject trinitarianism right they they completely reject it um and so yeah it's um but yeah I I but I think in order like you know just to save face they're just like you know might as well just you know create friendly relations rather than create hostile relations.
Yeah. No, absolutely.
It's it's it's beyond heresy. Like that's what they say. They've I've even seen a clip recently where where, you know, trinitarians will say that the word monotheism is stupid, right? That the word monotheism is stupid. You know, it's 2026 and we have people saying monotheism is stupid.
So this guy's a unitarian and this guy's a Mormon. And so they come at it where they reject trinitarianism.
Um and so yes, what they're saying is that they've developed even though they might not agree, they at least develop some level of a of a casual friendship because of their the Christian umbrella that they all lay under. But that's to their face, right? Behind their backs on their individual YouTube channels, they say that unarian you cannot be Christian if you're a Unitarian.
>> Oh. So when I was in high school, the guy that I used to sit next to on the bus, just how it like worked out, we didn't have like a signed seat. We didn't really know each other. You know, school can be sort of, >> you know, lame high school.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And but he was a Mormon and we used to talk about it and he gave me both of these actually. And I just want to read the beginning of this note that he left me in here. His name was Alex. He said, "I know you've already I've already given you a Book of Mormon, but I didn't really get the chance to talk more about it. We've talked before about how this book relates to the Bible, so I went ahead and marked a few scriptures for you. So, I hope they can answer a few questions you may have about this book or my faith in general." Pretty cool, you know, uh that I just had. I remember that. Alex still out.
>> Salam, good to see you. God is one official >> out there. And so this will be the first time since then that I've really got to speak with a Mormon. And we're not really going to dive into like it's not really to put um Mormon theology on the hot sheet on the hot seat like I don't want to like press you too much about that even though we can talk about it but specifically the trinity. So what I think would be a good place to >> all right which is perfect. I think this is going to be very interesting just to watch >> to start >> like seeing like non-Islamic people talk about the trinity I think will be funny >> is this idea that the father son and holy spirit are all one being that's one thing that stuck out to me with your conversation on god logic's channel that was something you or on in that debate you emphasized that I thought you explained it very clear so let's explore that so what would you say is the biggest problem with saying that Jesus and the father are, you know, homoius.
They they have one being.
>> It doesn't make any sense because, >> wow, just case in point, um, it just doesn't make any sense.
>> Having your own being is what makes you your own person. As soon as you get into what it means to to what a being is. And I think uh, and I don't want to get too deep into the philosophical weeds to to some extent. And I want to kind of avoid that so the lay person can kind of understand it. But having your own being is what makes you your own person. Okay?
To have your own state of existence.
>> People they use like the rock analogy.
I'm sure you've seen that. They're like, "Well, the rock is zero persons but like one being."
>> But the thing is is that if you had two rocks, you'd have two beings. You'd have two things, right? Not one thing.
>> Yeah.
>> And so to be your own person is to have your own being. I I've and the thing is is if we want to get the philosophical um my understanding is and you can correct me if I'm wrong on this um is that this idea of this it's the same substance right the same being if I'm not mistaken a person was an individual substance in the conception of Aristotle it wasn't that a person was like you could have two persons that were the same substance because a person was an individual substance so this idea that you have the father the son and the Holy Spirit that are the same being. My biggest problem is is I when I ask them to help me to understand what they're saying, it doesn't make any sense. Ultimately, you end up with three things.
>> One of the ways I put it is this. I'll say, "Is a person a thing?" Okay. How many things are there? Do we have If we have three persons, we have three things. We don't have one thing.
>> Yeah.
>> Now, it's funny. Some will say, and I've heard people say this, "Well, God is not a thing." I [laughter] go, I go, "Okay, so God is no thing." [laughter] >> He's nothing.
>> He's nothing. Like, it isn't a thing.
>> We're atheists now. We just went full circle, right?
>> Exactly. And I bring that up. I I'll bring that up to people because they're like, "Well, God is like the essence of being itself and all that." The problem with any of that is that you can't reconcile that with the Jesus of the Bible.
>> Okay? The Jesus of the Bible was a person.
Not only was it a person, it was a human being who had a body. Right? So >> the the issue is with the Trinity is that it does what what I found as I've dug into it and I've tried I really I really have tried to understand the best arguments for it and I keep coming down to what this all amounts to. The Trinity is the biggest emperor has no clothes in human history. Oh man, that's a dagger right there. I mean, yeah, the more like some of my biggest tripes with the tr with the trinity as a whole is one, there's so many frameworks that and a lot of them have like very critical internal conflicts with one another. Um, specifically when it comes to the basic one is is Jesus the most high God, right? Like again, is Jesus the most high God? We have Catholics like Nyans and egalitarians believe that he is the most high God even though the language in the Bible surely clearly shows there's an asymmetrical um relationship between um Jesus and God or Jesus and the father. So that's one um and the next big one is just like how many consciousnesses are there? So there's one God with three distinct people but then there's also at you know four distinct consciousnesses right and then during the resurrection event there's you know um there's all four consciousnesses are in four separate places and so ultimately you know how can you have one god three people four consciousnesses it like it's it's absurd to think that I have to now as a human make to all of these assumptions piecing together using that red tape or whatever um like a conspiracy theorist board and you know make that philosophical jump um obviously it makes zero sense >> everyone pretends like it makes sense but as soon as you really start to drill in the best they can do is throw up sort of word smoke screens and get into natures and persons and essences and all and I've looked into all that okay I've boiled it down and >> and even so this is outside philosophy, right? So, you're using outside philosophy from no one who's a prophet, right? So, none of this comes from prophetic voice. This all comes from scholarly voice, people who are not were not chosen by God to be prophets or bring messages. These are just outside philosophies that were developed centuries after the life of Jesus.
Doesn't make sense. Like, for example, I I've I've realized there's always talk about this. I'm sure you've got this a lot. I've watched a lot of your content as well and I know you get the you're confusing categories, >> the nature and the person and it's always conflating categories. So I in my debate with with with Avery, I just said, well, let's just let's get very clear on the categories. You have the who, then you have the what. What something is, we use words like essence or nature. Okay? Um or substance. You ask me what is a substance? Well, it's what God is. Okay, cool. And you have the person, father, son, holy spirit.
Got it. So when you clarify with people, are you talking about a who or are you talking about a what, they can't play the linguistic games.
>> So when dealing with trinitarians, that's the number one thing. Just if you get that clear because they'll jump back and forth between them. And so God when and and the word God, they use it in a bunch of different ways. And you often are very good at pointing out they're equivocating >> and they use the word to refer to a who or they use it to refer to a what and they jump back and forth all over the place so you can't ever pin them.
>> Yeah.
>> But anyone who unders and again what what are they doing? It's all just word games.
>> Mhm.
>> It's all just linguistic confusion to avoid the obvious things that the scriptures teach.
>> Right. Right. Absolutely. What I call it is shell game theology. Right. So you'll have people they want to emphasize that they're really just one God and then okay how are they really distinct from each other?
>> What stream are you watching? Were you watching this one Camille >> then? If they're just one God oh well they really are distinct. You know Jesus really isn't the father. Okay. Well then how are they one God? Right. How can they be distinct if they're one? How can >> Oh yeah. It's well it's it's not only just too much philosophy. It's too much outside philosophy, right? It's it's it's too many it's it's too many opinions that are just not messengers of God, right? And so, you know, that's one thing I was pin, you know, I was trying to pin down on um on, you know, our our friend within our streaming community, Paul, was that, you know, there's this verse in the third surah that says, "We believe in all the it's telling the prophet Muhammad to say, peace be upon him to say that, you know, we believe um of the message that that the message revealed to all the prophets, Abraham, Isaac, Ishmael, um Jacob, and then the messengers Moses and Jesus and we have no distinction between them.
So it's okay, perfect. That's what we believe in as Muslims. We believe that that those prophets were chosen to deliver the message of God. Right? And so that's what I asked. It's like, okay, wait, show me in the Bible where any of that teaches any of these prophets listed. It it tells them exactly it tell it it tells us what prophets, right? But tell me exactly where any of these prophets talked about a trinitarian framework. And the answer is it's not there. So, you know, we're having to then just accept the idea that these outside philosophical sources and people have retrofitted a trinitarian a trinitarian framework that was influenced by Paul, of course, Paul the um by Paul by Paul theology theology. Um and we're just assuming that to be true, right? But again, once you read, you know, anything up between the Old Testament all the way up to the first four um gospels of the New Testament, you know, it it would be it's very hard to pinpoint it and and to create a trinitarian argument that is coherent in comparison that it's a lot easier to create a unitarian um framework for sure.
>> They'd be one if they're distinct and just back and forth you go between them.
And historically, you have many different writers who emphasize on one or the other. That's where we get terms like, you know, Latin social trinitarianism. Of course, you have monarchical trinitarianism. And so, a few things that you pointed out, I I'll give my thoughts on briefly. So, yeah, you know, I think it's put very well that the big problem with believing that they're one being is that first, it just really doesn't make sense. It's sort of counterintuitive to how we understand these. Even in English, if you look up like the definition of person, it's like a human being. It like appeals to a nature, right? Because that's what makes a person what they are.
>> Yeah.
>> Um, so I think that's good. And that you really can't make sense of it in light of what the scriptures teach, which are historical documents. They reveal what what they thought. And there's there we really can't say they thought this without just really charging the text with all these philosophical distinctions. So I thought that was really well said and in in my understanding the way that I communicate this you know the person being this whole dichotomy is that person and being are co-extensive that word means to extend over the >> so yeah like see this is where what it gets down to right like this is absolutely where it gets down to it's like you know we're we're like we have to subject ourselves to all this philosophical notions right you have to subject ourselves to understanding nature person being all of these things when [laughter] the Quran clearly states in the first surah that Allah is God.
Right? Case in point, right? It's it's literally in the first few few sentences. Um you know, you can't ask any layman, you know, from any any part of the world social and economically speaking to somehow put this all together, right? You know, it needs to be a clear message that anyone can accept, right? But the trinit trinitarianism and then when you dive into all the different frameworks that he was mentioning like lat Latin social monarchal you know nian egalitarian whatever it may be it's like now you know different people from different classes in different different situations will just formulate their own ideas based on their own ego >> the same time and space. So sure we may have some conceptual difference between you know the properties that make up what you are versus who you are but across our world those are essentially the same thing across time and space.
You can't really separate them right if they are one being and they're three persons this just seems to to collapse uh into either modalism or just three gods. So in terms of the three gods, do you find that an offense? Uh I want to get your thoughts on that. So if Jesus is the same being as the father yet distinct from him, would you would do you think that would make them two gods?
Do you think that would like with a capital G, do you think that would be associating partners with God in any way? If you're going to say that the father and the son are the same being, I I'm literally just like it's like saying, "Hey, I have this square triangle over here." [laughter] It's like, >> yeah, >> like, "Oh, my married bachelor friend, he's great." It's like, I don't know what you're saying.
>> My married bachelor friend, that's awesome.
>> Like to say now, now people will say you have two, you know, persons that are the same being. I I I end up in this situation where I'm genuinely um confused about what they're trying to communicate. And when I ask them, they'll say, "Well, well, being is what something is." Again, if you go to who's and what's, those are the only two categories in play.
>> Okay.
>> Salam, >> you've rightly pointed out that when people talk about a nature and essence, these are just conceptual categories.
These are in a way, I'm not going to call them necessarily like a human construct, but they're mental constructs. There a list of categories that we have put together to say that these things all share these properties.
>> Yeah.
>> A nature doesn't do anything.
>> Okay. It's literally like a mental list in your head to group things together.
>> Yes, that is correct. [laughter] >> And every time people are like well in his, you know, the nature they share the >> Yes. God is one official. That's one of the best clips. Like, you know that one uh that one Muslim brother was talking to Avery and he was like, "If they're all knowing, what do they talk about?
What do they talk about? If they're all knowing, what do they need to talk about?" That clip's goated.
>> Same nature. It's like, "Bro, you and I share the same nature, but there's two of us."
>> Yeah. Yeah, >> man. Dude, this guy's This guy's great.
This guy's great.
>> And Oh, sorry. Okay. And that and that just reveals the special pleading, right? That they use these words, nature, person, but they don't really mean them in any equivalent way to everything else in our world, right?
Like they don't share a nature like any other person share a nature. Yep. That's why they can't ever give any examples of it. And then when you ask like again it's like, huh? So you can't point to anything that exists that is like this in any way. And then which by the way is the definition of special pleading when there's literally nothing like this. But it's like well we're just making up this new category that doesn't >> and even so right this is a great point where it goes back into this is the classic one that everyone uses like I think it's 126 in Genesis or whatever it is where they're like oh you know God says like let's make humans in our in or like let's let's make man in our image right so how could God make man in his image [laughter] but then God is some trinit trinitarian um you know deity right no person is like that >> exists that >> and again you You could say that oh mind, body, soul, but that's totally crap because mind, body, soul all still have, you know, the same is is all still under one consciousness, right? The mind, body, and soul is still under one consciousness. You know, doing one thing for one person, right? It's not three separate things doing their own deeds, doing their own wills, right? That's totally not the case.
>> Is incoherent and we can't explain and we can't give any analogies for Oh, and then you're like, but that's >> Yeah, that would be interesting. What would be interesting would be like a three-way panel, right? Talk like these guys. Um, someone even in the comment section, I think it was a Unitarian person was like, "Oh, like there needs to be um, you know, oh, Unitarians, Mormons, and Muslims, let's unite against the trinity, the trinity, right?" I think that would be an interesting panel, right? You know, or like, you know, or one of those like Jubilee videos or something where it's like, "Oh, you know, where do Mormons, Unitarians, and Muslims agree on?" um like asking them the exact same question and then how they um explain it. I think that could be interesting, too.
>> Three things. They're like, "Well, God isn't a thing at all." And you're just like, "Okay, how many times do we have to just say that this is atheism?" And and and so it it just the problem is is it keeps reducing down to to to incoherence. Um and nobody here's the reality. Nobody >> reads the Bible and is like, "Oh, the Trinity." Like that's what it teaches.
>> Oh my god. That's literally what I was talking to our friend Paul about.
>> The only reason people believe in the Trinity is because they're told that they have to >> Oh, well, for sure. I mean, yeah, there are many things with with Mormonism that I don't believe in or that I do not agree with, right? I think that's case in point, right? I mean, they're kind of like this these middle people between Islam and Christianity. Um, yeah. Yeah.
No, for sure. Mormons believe in some crazy stuff. Without a doubt. Without a doubt. But again, the the the purpose of this reaction is just to see what two Christians that um that like how they like why they reject trinitarianism. I think it's I think it's fascinating.
>> Believe in the trinity in order to be a Christian because that is the quote unquote historic Christian doctrine which started in the 4th century by the way. So >> indeed hard hard facts.
>> So will not be disputed on this. Oh wow.
Yeah. I don't I I know something. I I I know more about like the cultural aspects of how like Mormonism started, but I don't really get too like I just I saw a video when I was like maybe like 15 years old about like, you know, how when you when when Mormons die, they believe that they're going to be like gods of other planets essentially with their wife. It was something like that.
Um or like they're going to be in control of some other planets. Like I I remember it being a crazy video. I was like, "Okay." Like, it just seemed like it was just totally totally out there for me. Um, but yeah, I don't know. I don't know the full extent of it. It's remarkable how these two compromise to go against the mainstream facts >> channel.
>> Yeah. So, the issue is is that no one can imagine that, oh, that many people got it wrong for that long. And so, we just if you want to be a Christian, you just have to believe this. Even though it doesn't make sense. It's a mystery.
when I asked Ally Beth about the Trinity and kind of was like I was like hey I thought like >> yeah they're the closest for sure. I don't know exactly where metaphysics Mike stands on when it comes to Jesus being the direct son of God. Obviously he believes that Jesus is not God but I I'm I'm curious if he believes that like Jesus is a direct son of God. Um, and I think that's where probably the if I had to guess, again, I don't know. I don't I don't know what his thoughts are, but I think there's two things. I think it's he doesn't have um a proper understanding um of the prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, and he might have this affinity or this belief that Jesus is actually a son of God. That would be my guess, but I'm not too sure. But yeah, they are pretty close for sure.
>> Have your own being was that's what made you your own person. She's like, "Well, you know, the Trinity is just kind of a mystery." Let's go on to the next question.
>> Yeah, >> I know.
>> Yeah, that that's the classic thing.
It's like, oh, you know, like how like with our human brain, you know, we can't understand God and so we have to assume God is three. Like, like that's just how it goes, right?
Like that's just how it goes. It's like, okay, because we're humans and we have limited brains, so [snorts] we don't understand how God works, but we are 100% sure God is three. noticed that. I I did I did I did in fact notice that.
Uh so wow, listening to you talk. I gotta say it makes me happy like and like these >> I don't see the emperor has no clothes.
Don't worry.
>> It it's amazing to me and you know like >> so yeah he to believe that Jesus deserves some type of worship.
That makes sense.
>> Yeah. And you know, you could probably see that from like some of the patero um you know, bowing down of of the disciples.
But then again, you know, I made a video about this about there's so many different points where other prophets like were bowed down to, other kings were bowed down to, angels were bowed down to, right? Even the even in the book of Revelations, the followers of Jesus will be bowed down to as well. And so, you know, that that's just like that's consistent throughout the entire Bible is that, you know, many many people um are bowed down to. If I was like a Trinitarian and I just noticed that, you know, Unitarians, Mormons, Jehovah's Witness, Muslims, like what's the one thing they all have in common? It's like we know that this doctrine isn't right. And many of them treat that that is what discredits them, right? Oh, well, they deny the Trinity.
It's like, well, actually, I I think that that's what all of them get right and what leads people into those particular faith traditions, right? is that they when they see it there there truly is no >> and I you know it it almost seems like you know because of the internet you know people are finally like oh well one I think this is my personal belief but I think co um was the first step for people to want to accept God in their life I think they saw the speaking of the emperor has no clothes that is truly the government and so they saw that the government um wasn't this like all powerful being there were there were um you know cracks in the armor and people were like okay this is absolutely chaotic this time period and so you know people want to seek more spirituality and now I think there's going to be this revolution of people un like starting to come to the realization that that you know just from one owns personal logic you know a trinitarian framework just doesn't make sense philosophically speaking and so you know what are the other options out there and so you Unitarianism will probably get a good grip of it, but there isn't like um like I I I would say that the Quran is just such a convincing piece of like evidence, right? You know, like when you read the Quran versus when you read anything else, there's nothing like it.
And so, you know, hope you know, Allahel knows best. But yeah, you know, as we understand, there will be this like unification, this partnership of like, you know, Christians and and Muslims.
And it'll probably start to stem from a lot of the these uh these unitarians or these people who do who who are spiritually like believe that there could be a god. Now they're just trying to decide, you know, what that actually looks like.
>> Going back, I wanted to share this verse >> real real quick before you go to that one comment on that.
>> Okay.
>> You're absolutely right. I think >> Yeah. Yeah. What's up with this haunt virus?
What's up with that?
What's the deal with haunted virus?
Maybe we'll we'll maybe we'll look into it. But I've been seeing that. Is it like actual like you know like killing people? But we can look at that in a little bit here.
>> I think Islam is false. I think Islam breeds horrible fruits. I am against I I support Christians and pushing back against Islam. But when you can get me to agree with the Muslims and the Jehovah's Witnesses and a bunch of other people that we all totally disagree with one another, but we can all get together and go, >> "Yeah, this doesn't make any sense."
Like maybe that should cause you a little reflection, the fact that we all can agree that like this doesn't make sense >> and the only reason any of you believe this is because you were told you have to.
>> I've seen something in like he found the truth somehow in the Quran. He looks a bit different from Woods and Sam. When was this? Honda has 50% death rate. Wow.
50%.
That's insane.
>> None of you read the Bible.
>> Yo. Yeah. God is one. That's interesting.
You've seen something. So, you've seen something. not necessarily video, but you seen that that that maybe he something sparked um something in him where Islam could be the truth. I mean, the big issue is is that people who criticize Islam the most have not read the Quran. [laughter] Like I I'm I'm totally convinced that a lot of these people who who who who have are the biggest like the biggest critics of Islam have never read the Quran cover to cover, right? They might have opened up the book a couple of times and they probably researched some things, but I would I would be totally convinced that they never took the actual time to sit down and read the Quran cover to cover. They might say that they have. I I would I would highly I would highly believe that they probably haven't.
>> Well, and we're like, well, obviously, >> and and that's just my opinion. That's just my opinion.
>> They're consubstantial.
>> Yeah. Right. That that that term doesn't even come from the Bible. And I I one thing I like about that is I think we're able to hear each other far better than on the opposite side of those spectrums, right? Like me speaking to a Muslim who knows that I reject the Trinity. Something about it immediately like the walls are down in a way where we can communicate. Has that has that been your experience as well? Isn't that a beautiful thing?
>> Yes. Uh and in this conversation be one of I mean there's there's a ton of things you and I would disagree on, Mike. Um, but we can we can see that with Muslims kind of same thing. We can agree there. I I will say this though, like it's really hard for me because I I really like, for example, Avery think he's great. He goes on with um with some of these Muslims who are morally abhorent in my opinion. I don't mean that just I disagree theologically like some of these guys are bad people uh like hijab and some of the others are just these are bad dudes. And I don't like being in a position where I see a a good Christian like Avery going out there and getting, you know, having to defend ideas that are indefensible.
>> And they make these good points. I'm like, h I hate having to be like the the Muslim guy's right, but like he's right.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, by the way, the Muslim guy also is a monster and and morally abhorrent, right? And so I I end up in this world where it's like, look, I want to join with you and I would in pushing back on on on on the dangers of Islam and and some of its more radical theologies and issues that I have with that. But um yeah, I I mean I have to admit when someone is right, they're right.
>> And when you're defending an indefensible position, I'm going to say we need Christians need to drop the Trinity because it's indefensible. It makes Christianity look bad.
>> Yeah. I I would say, you know, like, you know, talking about some of these, you know, Muslim influencers, I I would agree that that some of them are are take it way over the top, right? And and can be extremely disrespectful, for sure. And I understand that that, you know, maybe they've dealt with it, you know, from from so many people for so long, but still, like, it's just not a good look in my opinion. But at the same time, Avery does the exact same thing.
Like they both do the exact same thing.
Um, and that's where I have I've been openly critical of Orthodox Muslim where I would be afraid I would be totally disappointed if he falls down the same route of, you know, saying really horrible things about Christians. Like that should just not that should just not happen. But, you know, it is sad. I do agree with him on the fact that, yeah, some of these influencers can be ex Oh, wait. Like totally over the top.
Um, and it's it's a it's a very bad look. But at the same time, I disagree with him. Avery does the exact same thing.
>> Yeah. Agreed. Agreed. Absolutely. That's I I feel very much similar. So I wanted to share this verse. What you were saying just made me think of it. So for the wrath of God is revealed against heaven is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. For what can be known about God is plain to them because God has shown it for him to them. For even his invisible attributes, namely his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived ever since the creation of the world and the things that have been made. So they are without excuse. For although they knew God, they did not honor him as God or give him thanks, but became futile in their thinking, and their foolish hearts were darkened. So the reason why I love this passage is because it actually does have this term that is referred to divine nature and eternal power. Just this this like these great magnificent probably hard to comprehend things about God. The Bible says that really they're revealed.
People sort of know them intuitionally.
And so I see the Trinity as a way of obscuring that reality. Right? God exists. He can be known. We ought to have a relationship with him. That's that's very real and active. It's alive.
But yet the doctrine of the trinity makes that's very >> Yeah. For what can be known about God is plain to them. Exactly.
>> Real and active. It's alive. But yet the doctrine of the Trinity makes him confusing. It sort of shrouds him in this layer of well I don't really understand him, you know, or his divine nature. And I I think that puts a distance between you and God and makes it easier to have to like accept a new intermediary, right? Where it's like now you really need something else or someone else uh to understand God. And and maybe to some degree we mo we might have some reservations. I know that you believe in that, you know, Latter-day Saints are like the new chosen priesthood on earth, right? And so you actually need them. you have to learn from them to enter into that full covenant relationship. So maybe there is some similarities in in your view but comments.
>> I mean obviously we're we're not Protestants so we we know it's not faith alone you know grace alone kind of kind of theology >> but but no I I agree with this. When God becomes a mystery it's very hard to have a relationship with a mystery.
>> Okay. when God becomes a person who is your father that you can have a relationship with um and it isn't shrouded in all this mystery I 100% agree now we would view kind of to to give kind of our perspective on the on what you just had brought up it is that what God is seeking to do is to bring all of us into a relationship with him that is a covenant relationship not just sort of a personal relationship it's almost like the difference between dating your wife and marrying her once you marry your wife you have a different sort of relationship ship. Once you have a covenant relationship with God, you become a part of of his church and um and we work together to to build his kingdom and do his will because we are part of the covenant people. Now, obviously, there'll be disagreements there, but that's sort of the LDS perspective um of that. But we are totally in agreement on this idea of the Trinity making a relationship with God more difficult. And I mean, I I I really do think a lot of people They just are kind of like, "Well, God is this mystery, and so how do I relate to a mystery?"
>> Yeah. Well, I think that ends up propping Jesus into sort of a new distinct God, making him a bit more relatable, I think, is how it is. Uh I mean, name the last time you saw a Trinitarian streaming the father is God, right? Like that's just like not even not even on their mind. Latter Day Scooby, thank you for the $5 super chat.
He says the truth >> and and even so right like you know it's it's the the trinity the three persons in the trinity do not even get enough recognition right or enough worship right you know maybe you know specifically nans like like Catholics will give Jesus way more worship um or recognition than the other two potentially right um that's only from like some like quick things I've seen from from my Catholic friends. Um and then you know maybe you know like Baptists for example might give the father more you know worship and praise.
Um but the holy spirit gets totally get gets you know the the short end of the stick right the the the holy spirit in in any trinitarian format gets the most short end of the stick short of the stick. And so I was like, you know, you're [snorts] telling me you just almost leave out this this other person in the trinitar like in your in your worship or in your praise or in your prayers, right? You leave the Holy Spirit out. I mean, come on. That's just not fair. Like how is that fair?
>> True God gives understanding not hiding in mystery forever as a copout to inde.
>> So be safe in my nation. Um the antivirus has entered. Be safe. It's not present air in the air like corona. it symptoms becomes non-communicable um communic communicable after 2 to three days. It's happening from rats. Happening from rats. What the heck? All right. Should we do All right.
Look, here's what we're going to do.
We're going to give I This is a pretty long conversation. Um we are going to What time is it? 11:43.
Okay. We are going to I I'm hoping that >> positions. Hey, I I appreciate the super.
>> Yeah, I think I think we get I think we get enough of this, right? You know, there both of them reject this whole philosophical understanding of the Trinity, right? I mean, I don't think we're it's going to be maybe more of a it's been kind of a glaze session recently. Maybe they'll get deeper into some stuff. Um, but I don't think there's going to be too much we're gonna really take out of this. What I am curious and what I want to watch next is um here we go. So, intellectually bankrupt atheist demands evidence for God. And this is with the Muslim lantern. So, we're going to watch this here. Um, I am going to do a quick nature break. What is this virus? Oh, please don't tell me it's like Corona inshallah isn't as much as it as I am concerned. Yeah. I mean, look at this point like like if they're telling me I got to stay in the house, I'm out of the house, man. Like, I'm out of the house.
I'm uh I mean it's not like I do anything anyways [laughter] to begin with, but I'm not staying inside this house. Um but it might be worse. And so um it's Yeah, it's interesting. All right, we're going to Hold on. Okay, well let's take a quick look in this Hivirus.
Um but we're going to watch this video afterwards as well. So just give me give me two minutes.
All right. Should I should I give my um my conspiracy theory belief about this whole virus?
Alhamdulillah. Allah has already told us not to eat rats, crows, and bats as they spread disease. Watch Sammy Oid stand up. He explains Hivire as well. Um, all praise be to my Lord who helped us in being aware without knowledge for sure.
Okay, [snorts] so yeah, here here's my here's my conspiracy theory belief about this whole antivirus thing. Um, and in no way is this like antivirus isn't new.
It started in 1978. So here's here's what here's how I see it, right? I could be totally wrong about this. This is not a prediction. This is not a prediction.
This is just if I were to if I went totally conspiracy theorist mode, this is how I see it, right?
So I see it [snorts] as you know Corona virus was this way to like set up the infrastructure in order to you know um to to to see how the system works, right? It was a test, right? Coronairus was a test. It was a way to set up the infrastructure so that they can introduce this new virus potentially that could then, you know, make people shelter at home, right? They want to make sure everything works, how the system works, right? That was a test.
And so, [snorts] and the reason why they want to do this test is because they want to make sure that people aren't traveling as much so they can, you know, have, you know, proper records and and, you know, just surveillance of people.
And the best way to survey people is through disease, right? And we've seen this time and time and time again. Um, and the whole idea is to then introduce this onchain economy, right? the the idea is to introduce this digital economy, you know, probably with, you know, some level of, you know, um of stable coins, Bitcoin, whatever it may be. They want to introduce a crypto economy so they can track transactions, right? You know, almost like a social credit score if if if you are, you know, being um you know, against kind of the the the government, right? they can turn off your your your banking, right, through like a a digital economy. And so that's how I see it. I I see it. It's it's again they're that Corona virus was a test and they want to introduce they want to have a a full surveillance state and then they want to put everyone on chain, right? And onchain, you know, is essentially just this like new age form of slavery, right? Because you're literally on chains, right?
And so we'll see what happens. But yeah, and and and that's why like, you know, that's why you see all of these massive like like Black Rockck for example, they bought, you know, so much Bitcoin, right? You know, like all of these governments have been storing Bitcoin for a very long time. Um and so yeah, you know, they wanted to make sure that they bought enough. They bought it at a super um cheap level, right? And then they're just going to jack up the prices and everyone's going to be out of like, you know, your dollars will become worthless, right?
They'll probably be like Donald Trump.
My guess is that again, this is with my tinfoil hat on. My guess is that like Donald Trump is gonna like, you know, do some like, you know, taekwond do move.
Taquan taekwond do move where he replaces the dollar with like some, you know, Bitcoin, Ethereum, Doge, whatever, Sheibba token type, like, you know, Cardono, whatever. for all these different cryptos and that's what the dollar will be backed by and like all the price is going to get jacked up and it's going to be it's going to almost become like those who have and those who don't have um and so we'll see again this is totally my conspiracy theory right this is like and I have not put any thought into this this is just like I just see you guys talking about it and this is what I would expect right you know again you know we and we've seen it we've seen it a lot right we have uh Sam Alman's um one of his crypto projects is that orb project that like you know you get rewards for you know giving your iris, right? Um and so yeah, it's um I wouldn't be surprised if and hopefully all good turns out, right? Hopefully I'm completely wrong on this. You know, like I said, I just took a totally shot in the dark with this one. But um yeah, it it would be it it would it's again it all what what is the whole point of government like like once it gets into tyrannical position is that it wants full surveillance, right? And then you can have full surveillance. The way you introduce that is through disease and then the way you can ensure that is through the economy, right? And so you can track everyone's transactions.
Ruins forgiving your IRS. Yeah. What's it called? Worldcoin, right? World Coin.
Yeah, Worldcoin is Can we see the World Coin website?
What's up? Worldcoin website.
So, what they did was in Africa, I don't know what parts. Yeah. World.org. The real human network, right? This is like some Sam Alman project. Um, so what they did in Africa, you got to collab with Sunny one day. Yeah. Inshallah. He he actually joined our live stream. Um and he uh not like on talking but he was uh in in our chat. It was pretty cool. But so Worldcoin was this project and what they did was they went to um they went to [snorts] Africa and they for they pretty much you know it's like weird like colonialism you know I'm going to investing in coins like Bitcoin is halal. Yeah. According to the UAE which is like I know how I feel with the UAE but the UAE says that Bitcoin is halal.
Um and um and so yeah, what what they did is that they went to Africa and that it's a private proof of human powerful financial infrastructure. And so what they did is that they went to Africa and they forced pretty much all these like African villagers um I don't know what parts of Africa, but they forced all these like people in vill in villages to use their um eye data, their irises um to to to build the the the data and build the infrastructure for this project. And it's like not talked about in the news because they paid you know they pay like like you know Sam Alman paid mil and they were getting really bad rap right they're getting horrible horrible um reputation about this but you know obviously they used um these like marketing agencies which marketing agencies are just like a fugazi word for propaganda agencies right you know marketing a agencies are just a fugazi word for for propaganda agencies right you pay enough money to any marketing agency they can make any story go away right because they just produce more stories about it and so they just drown out the other stories. Um and so let me see worlds coin um using in Africa. I don't know. I don't know what in Africa.
Let's see what it says. Um in July, yeah, it launched in Kenya for the first country chosen for it large crypto active population. Yeah. Tech for the environment. Sure.
And yeah, they pretty much forced 350,000 users and it makes up 25% of world's coin global, right? So yeah, the world coin suspended in Kenya as thousands queued for freed money. Yeah, they were they're promising these people free money and they were just literally just making them um use their IRS. But this is like a like a nice way of saying it, too.
Yeah. Court outlaws worldcoin orders immediate deletion of Kenya's data.
Right.
Let's see.
This was about a year ago. Wow. Ordered immediate deletion of all the biometric data under supervision. I think it's because they didn't even give them their money, right? Um in Kenya, the initiative saw thousands of citizens queuing to have their IRS scanned drawn for promise of financial war amid economic hardship. However, concerns arose when the mandate strict safeguards for personal data. Yeah, I guess there's a leakage potentially. The court found that the company failed to conduct a proper inspection or whatever and and neglected to register as data processor.
This is like a coin racket. Yeah. Yeah.
No, it was pretty it's it was pretty absurd. They basically just told all these people in Kenya that, hey, we're going to give you free money if you give us your eyeballs. Give us your eyeball data. And then they totally lied.
Um yeah. No, cryp the thing is is like if you are with crypto if if like and like pretty much all coins should be pretty halal. This is not scarly opinion. I'm sure scholars have a better opinion than I do. But if you're holding for a long-term investment then that's halal.
But if you hold like fartcoin and you're trying to make quick money on Fartcoin, that's definitely haram, right? I don't know if they paid up. Maybe they did the collection and let's see. Did they pay?
Reinforcing the importance of ethical practices. Yeah, but it was totally unethical.
Maybe they did pay, but it wasn't maybe a whole lot. I'm not too sure.
Um, but yeah, closes probe of world coin opening the door. Yeah, I just know it was bad.
Maybe they did. Maybe they did. I'm not too sure.
Um, but yeah, to resume. Oh, they were actually resuming. Oh, no. But that was a year ago.
Maybe there's data leakage. I I'm not too sure.
Let's keep an eye on our data. Yeah, it was bad. But anyways, okay. Let's let's check out this haunt virus. Huh?
Let's check um bro. It's like they did the same world fund the DNC. Yeah, for sure.
But let's see what what what what's the scoop on the haunt virus? It's trending.
Will cause global lockdown. These are some of the top early symptoms. Fever that starts like a strange flu. Not every fever is haunt. Okay. But then severe muscle pain.
headache, dizziness. Okay, but what's the deal?
Health experts warned that haunt virus may be more contagious than thought.
Um, 13 positive cases have now been recorded, a 30% increase.
The risk is very, very low. They say a cruise ship left Argentina and then people have left the ship. The incubated window is 42 days. who says it is not co that's true will no more than six weeks h virus remains alive in just two to three days outside rodents spread pattern HV Honda suggests rodents are on board of ship so it's coming from rodents little do the Starbucks boat girls know if the virus is living in closed space via rodents isn't it logical to think those humans also in that in close space would be exposed to it.
So yeah, what's the deal?
I feel like there's not a whole lot of buzz about it.
Should we look it up?
Hunter virus is there. Let's see what these people are saying.
Let's not look at what Sienna is saying.
Let's see.
Are have these people talked about haunt virus?
That was from eight days ago.
>> Let's see. This is from when was this?
CN Oh, that's CNN. I don't want to watch CNN.
All right. I'm hoping for that there would be better.
Oh, yeah. This hap this was from 13 years ago. Haunted virus.
All right. Okay. Let's see what this guy says. And it independent creator. Okay.
Fact or fiction? Hauntivirus. Hauntirus is the next >> What the [ __ ] is >> fact or fiction? Hont virus. Hauntivirus is the next co. It's really important to understand the transmission differences between corona virus and hontovirus.
Corona virus predominantly is transmitted through respiratory particles. And so in casual humanto human interaction whether you're breathing, coughing, sneezing, these particles can be transmitted from human to human. versus haunt virus is quite different. It's transmitted through infected rodents particularly in their urine, saliva, droppings or other nested materials. So yes, ha virus can be inhaled, but this is typically from contaminated dust rather than casual breathing human to human. So this is fiction. Ha viruses never spread personto person. While most hontovirus trains do not transmit person to person, there is a particular virus strain, the adnis virus associated with South America that has been identified to have some persontoperson transmission.
>> Oh, okay guys. Hey, wrap it up. Wrap it up. Yo, guys, wrap it up.
Wrap it up, guys.
If it spreads person to person, we're done for. However, this is only implicated in cases of severe symptomatic patients who are in enclosed spaces and have close contact. And so this is fiction, but the endis virus is an exception. Early symptoms can look like a boring viral illness. Cases have been identified to present with fever, headache, myalgas, diarrhea, GI symptoms which classically fit the viral prodome.
And so that's why the history matters so much more. And so this is fact. There's a simple antiviral cure. At the moment, there is no licensed antiviral treatment or vaccine available for HANA virus. And so, treatment is going to involve early recognition, monitoring, oxygen, ICU support, and cardiac or respiratory interventions. Don't panic, but don't be careless around rodent droppings. Fact.
>> Okay, let's see.
Any other things about haunted virus?
No.
Okay. Okay. Well, we got a little update.
>> Fact or >> what the [ __ ] is Hauntus?
>> Oh my god.
>> Who is off official Dr. Pickle? Okay.
Hey guys, let's see what Dr. Pickle says.
>> Apparently, the newest cruise package is unlimited buffet, ocean views, and mysterious [ __ ] diseases.
>> Okay. [laughter] Jeez.
>> Haunt virus is a nasty ass virus spread through rat and mouse piss, [ __ ] and saliva. After those drop >> No, I'm Spanish. Do I look Cuban?
>> Dry up.
>> But to be fair, like my people definitely went to went to Cuba for sure.
>> The virus can become airborne and you can literally breathe it straight into your lungs. At first, it feels like the flu, fever, headaches, muscle pain. Then your lungs start filling with fluid and suddenly breathing feels like you're inhaling through a wet [ __ ] sock. And the scary part, healthy people can crash fast. So maybe if your vacation destination has more road >> yo, what are people people need to stop going on these cruises, man?
>> [ __ ] than room service, leave. Follow Dr. pickle for more about your [ __ ] up bot.
>> Jeez. Okay. Wow. 2,000 subscribers.
The post This person woke up and chose to make a violent video. Yeah, these uh VTubers, right?
>> What the [ __ ] is Haunted about?
>> Oh my god. Sorry guys. Sorry.
Um let's see. More c more cruise passengers. Uh, it honestly so far could last months. Okay, let's see what this guy says.
>> It can drag on for several months because the incubation period is long and it could be that we have the feeling at some point that it's over and then there's one case which pops up one month later.
>> I don't know. I if I had to be honest, this seems like they're trying to do some Houdini magic.
I don't know. I'm a little skeptical.
And then you have again to do all these isolation of cases, quarantine of contacts. What is good if I may say so with this vir the weird thing is that the media was like making totally us fear-monger or was being so such fearong like the media was being a very big fear-mongerer during co I feel like I like this hasn't been the case this time >> is that it's not very that's a French accent. Yeah. Yep.
That's French >> transmissible. It's not highly contagious. It's only the people who are symptotomatic who are contagious. So there is a limited time period uh during which transmission can take >> it's just rare I see a Spanish last name of direct descent that didn't pass through Cuba, Argentina before be becoming assimilated here I feel. Yeah.
So my um my ancestors came from Spain to Mexico.
So they went from Spain to Mexico, not to Cuba or Argentina, but yeah, came from Spain to Mexico and then went to Arizona.
So yeah, we definitely Yeah, definitely went but not may maybe they passed through Cuba maybe but yeah especially like from my understanding both of my grandparents on my father's side both like they have ancestors from Mexico but then ultimately were from Spain >> place but ultimately my guess is a few dozens of cases worldwide high lethality rate so unfortunately um half of the people or onethird of the people is going to die but I would not expect the very large epidemic even if I'm not too worried I think it's useful to remind all of >> yeah I just the thing about co is just yeah since it's airborne it's really easy this seems like you have to be in very close contact with it >> us that we are still at risk of major pandemics and we should get prepared I'm quite convinced that we are going to experience a new pandemic and we never know whether it could be as >> the the big issue the big the the the big issue with pandemics is like the one the one thing that's actually scary about global warming is not like like land being like you know usurped by water, right? That's not the scary part. The scary part with global warming would be like the ice melting and then releasing potentially trapped um you know dangerous viruses that would have been trapped for like millions of years. Like that part would be bad. You just look like more of a white dude.
That's why I assumed Yeah. No, I am super white. I heard someone say that comparing COVID with this virus is like apples with oranges for sure. But they're still both fruits.
>> As bad as COVID 19.
>> Um, okay. I think um, yeah. So far, am I I'm not really feeling too terrified about this one. It's a nine countries.
It seems like, you know, maybe they're trying to just push some media about it in order to like, you know, have something maybe in Iran happen. I don't know. Make us forget about the Epstein files probably.
I don't know.
It doesn't seem like they're pushing that much media this time, but they did have that that Did you guys see they had that UFO thing recently? Whatever the US declassified some UFO stuff that was pretty that was just very random. I didn't look into it. I just I don't really care about this stuff anymore. I used to really care about the UAP and UA UFO stuff, but I'm like, this is just nonsense.
Including more than 40. Yeah. is mentioned.
Oh, so I guess this happened before.
Patients go from I'm tired to I'm intensive care over 120 biological I mean yeah look at this they have they were talking about this back in 13 years ago.
Let's see what the comment section is saying.
Bro had a vision.
So are we all hearing about the news after the cruise ship?
There has been more concern or more public concern about haunt virus given that we've had some cases of infection uh from um patients who have been traveling recently in Yusede Valley. Um in particular uh these cases were thought to be uh were thought to come from uh exposure to deer mice while they were staying at Curry Village um in uh which is at >> Bro, this feels like January 2020 all over again for sure. Apparently, it was a hoax to distract people from the files, but it's only speculation till proven facts.
All right.
Oh, what does breaking point say, >> Crystal?
>> During these seven, >> Crystal, let's >> All right, we'll watch a little bit of this and then we're going to get into the the the Muzzle Mansion video.
>> All right, we can play some of what it was looking like yesterday as people disembarked in Spain. That ship obviously CNN yesterday asking answering questions about the haunt virus.
>> I'm told that it can take up to six weeks for somebody who was exposed to antivirus to begin to show symptoms. So that is about four weeks ago. Um so they're not technically out of the woods yet. There's still two weeks left. When did you begin monitoring these seven? Do any of them have any symptoms?
Well, I think it's uh we first learned about CDC roughly uh the time they started to come home. I think uh maybe three weeks ago.
>> Seven states are preparing their emergency response um for and to also just tracking the spread where this could have already gone in the United States based on that incubation period Tapper was referring to of apparently up to six weeks. Six weeks and some American passengers disembarked along with others on April 24th. So states like Georgia, Texas, they're monitor monitoring. So potentially a rather dangerous situation. Uh Crystal, but the World Health Organization just before I I'll toss it to you after we listen to a WHO uh outbreak expert here from the World Health Organization who says this is different from corona virus D4.
>> This is not corona virus. Uh this is a very different virus. We know this virus. Hunto viruses have been around for quite a while. There's a lot of detail that we know. I'm going to ask an to come in and say this, but I want to be unequivocal here. This is not SARS KV2. This is >> It's funny. My dad is like actually like so afraid of of rats and so you know this would be like his biggest nightmare.
>> Not the start of a co pandemic. This is an outbreak that we see on a ship.
There's a confined area. We have five confirmed cases so far. We completely understand why these questions are coming and we are trying to provide all of the information that we can. That's why we're having a press conference here to give accurate information and we're grateful for all of those out there who are asking these types of questions. But this is not the same situation we were in six years ago. Um it doesn't spread the same way um like corona viruses do.
It's very different. It's that close intimate contact that we've seen. And most Hansa viruses don't transmit between people at all. Most Hans viruses are transmitted from rodents or their feces or their saliva um in droppings um to people. And only this one particular virus, the Andes virus, which has been identified here. We've seen some human transmission.
>> We got the Andes virus, guys. It's cooked. We're cooked, man.
>> We'll get to that in just one second how this may have transmitted. But Crystal, uh Virginia, you're in one of the states affected here.
>> Yay. I mean, I have to hope that lady is right because we are so screwed as a country if we have another pandemic.
>> Yeah. So, it comes from rat droppings um or rat saliva, rat piss, all that stuff. And then um but because this is the specific South American Andes virus, like this could also now be airborne from person to person.
>> Like no one is going to believe anything. And like a libertarian approach to a pandemic is a horrifying idea because we do all live together and have to do some community things. And if the science says you need to isolate and you need to take these precautions, then you look there are values that underpin that and those values can be debated.
But no one is going to believe anything and it is going to be a total and >> of course it came from the that demonic country. Yeah.
>> Mess. We have a health and human services secretary and RFK Jr. who is a total nut job crank completely ideological. He staffed all of these agencies with fellow ideological travelers. I mean fought.
>> Yeah, exactly. They're just trying to I mean, you know, the all of these, you know, mega corporations, particularly the media, I mean, everything, right?
You know, the military industrial complex, the pharmaceutical industrial complex, the homeless industrial complex. I mean, everything's industrial complex when it comes down to it.
[snorts] But, you know, they're just trying to just sell clicks and make profit. And that's what this is. And maybe try to distract from something important. even like indulged his idea that autism is caused by vaccines and wanted to pull the mRNA vaccine off the market and all this kind of nonsense.
So, it would be such a disaster.
>> I don't even know how tomorrow I'll eat facts, dude. I mean, co So, I graduated college um December of 2019. So, like literally two or three months before COVID the the pandemic the shutdown started to happen. I literally graduated into COVID um and we lost our minds this time because I'm like strong like because I have a very close relation or you know because I have a way stronger religious foundation than I did before.
I don't think I I I you know may Allah make it you know preserve my faith and protect me from any harm and protect and protect all of us from following the false messiah. May Allahel protect us from following the false messiah. I mean, um, and you know, but yeah, everyone lost their minds during this time. We all just became extremely degenerate cuz there's there's no hope.
There's no belief. There's no jobs.
There's no nothing. It was horrible.
>> I just have to assume that this is going to be fine and it's not going to spread further and we're all going to be okay because I can't wrap my head around.
>> Yeah. We heard about it for the first time like in like December.
Yeah. Yeah. But we didn't take it seriously. We're And then when it happened because there was no job. I mean, to be fair, like I had no job offers anyways, but it really made it seem like there was no tomorrow, right?
Every day felt like it was like a year long, right? I remember the first 10 days felt like it was a month. It was absolutely absurd. It was a like the first 10 days of of COVID literally felt like it was like a month long. It was the weirdest period of all time. It was a nightmare. Sally Max, it is a matter of time to spread. Yeah, it is a matter of time to spread for sure. It is it is it is a weird time. And so yeah, it uh I just remember like there was like I I I truly like personally I I was like all right, you know, what's the point of all of these morals and all of this stuff, right? You know what I not I wouldn't say I'm I'm making it seem darker than it was for sure, but I was like, you know, what's the point of you know like I I'm kind of just had this mentality of like screw it, you know, like anything can happen. I just want to try everything, right? I just want to I just I don't care, you know. I just want to have seek self-pleasure, you know. I just want to enjoy my time. I just want to, you know, there's no more rules anymore. We're all under this like, you know, totalitarian state. It was it was crazy, man. It was absolutely insane.
>> Um, well, with everything else that is going on, I just cannot wrap my head around what will happen to this country if we actually had another pandemic.
>> Yeah. So, >> but she makes a great great point like if if there was another pandemic, no one would follow the rules. No one would abs no one would follow the rules.
>> I remember saying this like right as things were starting to fall away like we have not for the original uh restrictions and such from co were starting to fall away like we didn't earn a reprieve from a pandemic like we didn't earn another century like with the Spanish flu uh to from 20 from I'm sorry from 1919 to 2020. It's not like that's guaranteed that you just like you went through a really tough time and thankfully it's behind us and we won't have to deal with it ever again. This can pop up at any any time. And I think maybe the first piece I wrote during co was like prepare for a pandemic during an era of low institutional trust which Crystal now feels so quaint because institutional trust in 2020 versus institutional trust in 2026 is such a different ball game.
>> Even they're trying to fearmonger this as well. You know even though yeah we got to I got to see a little bit more first but you know like I said I think they are trying to push a little bit of a narrative here. completely different ball game. Like it it has been where we are now.
>> It's probably more deadly than um CO I would say just from what we've seen so far. I'm not a doctor though, so don't take that as advice. But it seems to be a little like it definitely seems to be a lot worse than CO. I haven't looked into it.
>> Our ability to actually go along with any collective measures if they were if they were absolutely necessary. I mean, you and I do this for a living and actually getting to the bottom of what's happening in these situations is difficult enough because the World Health Organization, the woman who's talking to you now from the World Health Organization was also in charge of the COVID response. So, it's like you're getting your information either from her or uh from I don't know like RFK Jr. who a lot of people don't have trust in. So, good luck to us. I guess they like best of luck. Well, the reason some people have trust in RF Junior is because they also shouldn't have trust in his enemies. Like they his enemies have proven themselves untrustworthy. And so then you get it's like with Trump, right? like people put their trust in him because his enemies have proven untrustworthy and it becomes a vicious cycle and nobody knows actually where to turn for good information and that situation has only gotten worse believe it or not since 2020. I mean everybody believes it but that's how bad it is.
>> It's going to it god forbid like it will be such a mess. It will be a disaster.
So many people will die unless it's just we we just can't please God we just please Emily do some extra praying for us because we just can't.
>> I got you. I got to Don't ask the Etsy witches for help. I don't think that's going [laughter] to try.
>> That's funny.
>> Okay. Um All right. We'll we'll we'll keep um we're going to keep a close tab on this.
Yeah, we're going to keep a close tab on this. I'm not too worried about it yet.
Um I I think yeah, I think it's a little bit of propaganda. I think it's trying to distract us right now.
But yeah, if I had to say if this does become a thing, I think it's because they're trying to do high surveillance state and push an onchain economy.
That's what I would say.
Hivirus. Let's start with the obvious.
We're talking about antivirus right now.
If it's like actually something to be concerned about, I would say right now I'm not let's see two new cases about the disease. Total of 11 cases, three deaths. Nine of the 11 cases are confirmed. The other two are probable. All the other all are among the passengers and crew or crew.
We expect more cases given this the dynamic of the spread.
Yeah, a little bit. It's a little bit fear-mongering right now. Is deadly experience zero in deadly antivirus cruise ship was a Dutch so who and I cannot stress enough was exposed because he decided to visit a garbage dump that is avoided like the plague by residents and is filled with rats. So I guess this guy what's an ornithologist orithologist orithologist is someone who studies birds behavior biology ecology and conservation. So I guess ornithologists go into like really disgusting areas.
And so this one random guy went into some area to go to go in some garbage dump I guess to go look at some bird.
And then that's how he spread.
That's awesome.
That's awesome. Okay. Um, so yeah. So, what do we have this week, right? We have the Iran war not coming to an end. We have UFO UFO documents being released. We have Epstein suicide note. And then we have this new Corona virus.
HT is fake and gay. Jeez. Oh man, that's classic. Um, so we all we have these four things all in one week. It sounds like a lot of distraction to me. Some of the country need to buy vaccines if it means big business for hunters. I think it's propaganda. Yeah, I it just sounds like there's a people are trying to turn some heads. Um supposedly Yeah. Then we have the Ukraine stuff as well potentially coming to an end. It just sounds like um I don't know like a lot of confusion.
I think what I Okay, so I think two things. I think two things. I think it's what I said earlier about this whole idea of potentially like you know trying to create some surveillance state you know um crypto like onchain economy. I think that's the first I think that that that could be number one.
There could this I did see some conspiracy theory about like trying to make like like Trump this like you know savior who like talks to some like alien society or whatever. That one's the most far out thing that I've seen.
But they could also be positioning Trump into this like hero before the midterm elections where he like solves the Ukraine cris uh the Ukraine crisis that's been going on with Russia for many years. You know, putting an end to this Iran war, right? Lowering gas prices, right? putting an end like he's somehow the savior with this haunt virus, right? That could also be the other strategic position here is like creating all these mini crises all at once where then the administration in America somehow solves them all and then it sets up the Republican party for like this really great upswing of like votes during the midterm elections that are happening in in America here soon. I could see that happening too. I wouldn't be surprised. I wouldn't be surprised if that happens.
Um, and so that's why like I don't have a stake in the game. I don't really, you know, whatever happens happens. A lot of John knows best. But it's like why are all of these like so many, you know, major stories all happening in a in a week, too. It's like, dude, like life is like if you literally get off of the internet, right? You get off of the internet and you go for a walk outside, nothing is happening. like you you you get off you put you you close the computer you take a walk you know outside your door nothing nothing nothing bad is happening right in your life probably like I'm assuming you're probably not facing oppression I'm assuming you're probably not facing genocide I'm assuming you're probably not facing starvation I'm assuming that you know you you you you have an idea of what you're going to eat that night we're all pretty blessed right like alhamdulillah we're all pretty blessed all of this stuff that the media is saying is a bunch of what my seventh grade math teacher would say is C rap, right? It's C rap. It's crap, right?
It's all crap, right? They're just trying to confuse us. It it like my I I've been thinking about I've been thinking about this for a very long time. It's they're probably just trying to prop up a big wave of like a Republican, you know, massive swing of votes during the midterm election just so Trump can enact even more stuff, right? Maybe even get a third election, right? Maybe even get a third term. and he's going to need like a really he's going to need a a red Republican Senate and he's going to need a red Republican House. And so there could be all these mini crises and somehow he's the savior and he solves them all right before the midterms. That could happen. Um maybe there's this like, you know, like I said, this like, you know, surveillance state onchain economy, you know, there's going to be winners, there's going to be big losers, all this stuff that could happen, too.
I know I'm pushing up a lot of stuff. I don't know, guys. I'm not I'm not saying I I I I know any of this to be 100% true. I'm just kind of saying that these are just these are totally just my opinion. If any of them come to be correct, don't blame me. Don't say I knew I don't know anything. I'm just saying some nonsense. Well, who controls your media? Yeah, it's time to see through the forest of the trees. Well, yeah. I mean, obviously it's not who controls the media, who controls big pharma, right? you know [snorts] who controls um you know our our politics right we we already know who [laughter] we know who right you know we are controlled by the Zionist right I mean just to just say what it is um so yeah so yeah they will do anything to keep us away from her exactly you know all these things are are that's exactly the case right because you know the especially when it comes to this idea of one world government there's a few ways to do it right the the the Catholic Church wanted to do it by having like this like idea interviews I think we'll use new technologies the Catholic Church wanted this you know version of like a one world government by having this like trinitarian god you know again this this is totally just some things that I heard I I I don't even remember when but this is what I just think it isn't just Zionist is though trees forest. [snorts] Okay. I mean, you know, who do you think it is then? I'm curious. Um, so there's that. I mean, unless you're trying to say there's like, you know, the Shayan and these Jin and whatever. Yeah, that's probably what it is, too. That's why I tell everyone to read first Kings, 2 Kings, First Chronicles, 2 Chronicles. I think you'd learn a lot. Um, but you know on top of that what I was saying ear what was I just saying about oh yeah one world government it's either they create it through this like massive religion right you create a one world government through a massive religion or you create it through aliens or like like some alien or some like you know um like comment that might hit the earth or whatever and then you use the media to to formate this government right obviously when it comes down to the hadiths um you know we have this understanding that's going to be the de jal essentially um you know where there's going to be this potential one world government um you know um and you know it's it's it's also based in like revelations right with like you know the mark of the beast and which yeah it's very similar to the hadith as well and so yeah it's that we are entering in some you know whether whether it's this is all happening now it does seem like the media is trying to push it's just trying to force a narrative. It's like, yo, chill, man.
Chill, man. What am I saying? I'm I'm saying exactly what how one world governments try to get pushed. They either try to create a religion or they try or or or the greatest way to do it.
Like in the past, they try to do it with religion, right? That's the Catholic Church. And then um what the greatest way to do it is to do a threat from the universe, right? You know, a threat from space. I mean, you know, so whether it's a galactic alien government, they might try to to push that narrative or like, you know, if there was to be a comment like some type of asteroid that would hit the Earth. And so, you know, a a good way to start it is a virus, too.
Um, that's how you start the surveillance state.
You know, that's just been the classic move in history is is to is is, you know, I I had this one political sociology class. I went to I wish I went to class more often. Um but yeah, that's what they taught us, right? Is the surveillance state really comes from disease. It gets started with disease.
[snorts] But yeah, you know, it does seem we have multiple forces all working at once. Anyways, you know, let's let's kind of end it on a high note with this one uh conversation here.
>> Can you hear me?
>> I can. How are you >> doing? Well, >> also I'm not saying I'm I'm correct on it. This is just my opinion. And that now that that was just like I'm not saying that with chest. I'm not I'm just saying this is my opinion. Obviously, you know, I am I I would never I'm alive myself. I'm very happy with my life. I'm very happy with my family. You know, these are just things that I just am regurgitating from the internet. You know, these are all that was all just for fun.
>> Hear me?
>> Tired but doing well. Yes. Yes, I can hear you. So, are you driving truck driver?
Yes, I well I'm parked now but >> yeah okay >> I was listening a little while I was driving.
>> Sure. Sure. Usually the connection seems >> my friend Muhammad said to >> Yeah, because if you're driving sometimes the internet is going up and down so hopefully it's okay. But yeah, you're saying your friend said what?
>> Uh to to call in.
>> Okay, sure.
>> To to talk to you to ask to ask questions.
>> Sure. I was uh why should someone believe? I'm a non-believer. Why should I believe?
>> Oh, we're not asking anybody to believe.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. We're not asking you. That's awesome. Asking anybody to believe.
>> Well, you're asking for >> you're asking for non-believers to call in. Why were you asking non-believers to call in?
>> Yeah. So I what I say is if there is any non-Muslims that would like to talk they're welcome to click on the link pinned in the comment section. So if you see the phrase is very you know I think it's very clear. So if any non-Muslims have questions about Islam. So there's a difference between me being accessible because that's my obligation as a Muslim and me being a salesman. And I always tell the people it's very important for people to understand that [laughter] there's a difference between being accessible to the people because if someone has a question right as you see those people who come on say oh I have a question I've been trying to talk to you so they're looking for someone that answers their questions they're seekers so we need to be outlets for people now you have example salesmen like you know some religions with a microphone chat shouting and screaming in the middle of the streets right we don't do that Islam teaches us it's only upon the messenger to deliver the message. That's it. So when you we it's not upon us to convince anyone. So someone says why should I believe?
>> We would say first the idea is not a question of believe. It's a question of truth.
>> So it's is there I don't know if you or or are you Muslim or non-Muslim?
>> Uh sorry I'm a you don't believe in God.
>> Yeah. You're atheist.
>> I'm an atheist.
>> Sure. Sure. So so it's a question of truth. So, so there's absolute truth.
>> I'm seeking truth.
>> Yeah. So, the absolute truth is either either there is a creator or there is no creator. There's no third option. It's impossible for you to have a third option.
>> There's only two option.
>> There is a god or there's no god. So now the question is this and that was that's what I was literally saying earlier too when it comes to like unitarianism. I was saying like yeah so the first step is is there god? Yes or no? Then then the next step after that is god a human yes or no right? Does God have and then like another like side to that would be like does God have a son? Yes or no? And then do you believe that son to be God?
And then it comes down to do you like ultimately you know who do you believe is is is a prophet of God and who do you believe is the final prophet of God. Um and that's how you would come down to being a Muslim. Um >> and that's kind of where I think this is coming here too.
>> I would ask someone who says ah oh I don't believe in a god. Okay you don't believe in a god. So if you don't believe in a god the question would be do you believe something can come from absolute nothingness?
Can something come from nothing?
>> Maybe. I don't know.
>> No, it's not maybe. It's definitely no.
So, if you have 0 plus 0 plus 0, what do you get?
>> Well, you get zero. But I I think they have proved something can come from nothing.
>> Okay.
>> That's that's Well, I can't give you an example. I'm >> But you prove >> I'm not that smart.
[laughter] >> I didn't I didn't I didn't discover it.
I'm not smart enough to discover it.
>> No, no. I'm sorry. Like, it's like me coming saying to you with older Spectron. It's like me.
>> Wait, wait. It's like me coming. You're You're taking it a step further than that. You You're You're >> No, no, no. Wait, wait, wait. Ron, run.
We don't want to jump the gun off. I want you just Let's take this step by step. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Sure.
>> Step by step. Right. Okay. Before we jump because I know you're trying to jump into the end. No. We We're trying to take things a step by step. First, you can say you can't say a group of people proved something. I don't know who they are. I don't know what their evidences is. I'm not smart enough. It's like me saying Islam's already been proven true. This is our conversation now. You come on. What should I believe?
Islam has been proven true. Why? Oh, I'm not intelligent enough to answer you, but some people out there have proven Islam to be true. You're like, "Sorry."
You're like, "Sorry, I'm not the one with this."
>> I I don't have a show stating something comes from nothing. No, [laughter] but you are claiming you are claiming that someone says something came from nothing. You're you are making an active claim.
>> So just like I'm making claim. You're making an >> So maybe it's possible. I'm I'm not ruling it out.
>> No, no. I'm asking you to give me an example if it's possible. Give me an example of something that comes from absolute nothing. Because you said that there is people who proved it. Proved what and who? Who are the people and what did they prove?
Well, I I I I didn't come with that information, but it it's >> Okay. So, what did you mean that you prove?
>> No, it's possible.
>> Okay. So, you do you retract some people have proven? Wait, >> sure. Well, just just to move on.
>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I'm We don't This is why I said to you, I'm not here to maybe it can't. I don't I don't know.
>> Ran, please. I I'll let you speak. try to let me speak as well because we want to we don't want to move on but look this is why I said to you from the beginning I'm not here to convince you because if this is the type of argumentation you're coming with then how can I convince you if someone comes to me is like you know what there's a group of people who who >> I'm going to be like I'm sorry but I mean I value my time with all the respect if you're an 80s you have nothing to present to people >> I don't think I've been argumentative listen no I'm not saying you're argumentative I'm saying you're not bringing a rational argument So, >> I'm not bringing any argument.
[laughter] >> I'm just asking.
>> Nico wants a burning sne.
>> What do Wait, what does that mean?
>> Exactly.
>> For your best evidence why I should believe.
>> No, I'm sorry. Would you go to a baby in the kindergarten and speak to them for 1 hour or two hours? Would you do that?
>> Would you have a discussion with them?
>> Sure.
>> No, you will.
>> Sure. I'll discuss babies. You >> Okay. Okay. That's exactly my point.
I I'll tell you I'll speak about myself.
Why I wouldn't do it is because I know the baby have no rational faculties. He wouldn't be able to engage in a conversation with me. I wouldn't be learning anything. I'll be wasting my I'll be wasting my time.
>> But the baby could be learning something.
>> The the thing is is that like you got to like here's my thing with with Muslim Lantern even though he is one of my favorite um DA people is that you got to understand who your audience is, right?
I mean, he unders like he has this idea that he that his YouTube audience, but like this guy Ron, you know, bless his heart for at least trying and putting himself out there. Like he's not he's not at that level. He's not at that level. So, you got to bring it he like if if if I was in the situation that Muslim Lantern was in and again this is 2020. This is third party perspective.
Maybe I'd be doing totally something different. Allahel knows best. But like you got to understand what you're working with, right? And again, bless Ron's heart for trying, but it doesn't seem like we're working with a whole lot. So, you got to you got to just take it down because maybe this guy, he even said in the beginning that he is open to the truth, right? And he's asking for, you know, Muzzlement Manton to prove it, right? But and I see Muzzle Manton is trying to understand exactly where Ron's point is, you know, it's just like is it is this a productive conversation? I so far I would say no. It like and Mos Lantern does do this sometimes. He does try to spin. He does try to, you know, come at it from like a way over intellectual level. I think people do that too often.
I think people, and I'm not saying Muzzlement Mansion does this, I'm just saying in general, right? This part, I'm saying in general. I'm not accusing Muzzle Mansion of this at all. I'm just saying this is in general. I think people try to come off like overly intellectual without understanding who the other like like and they're trying to talk over the person, right? Um, I I I think and that's not a good way to have a conversation. And that's like like you like even if you are talking to the smartest person ever of all time, I think you should still talk, you know, not smart at all because it's just easy to understand clear terms, right? But, you know, using like, you know, rational argument versus argument like all these things. This guy's Rotten, dude. He's a truck driver. Like, like Muslim lantern got his masters. He's been studying Islam for years. Seems pretty smart guy.
This guy Ron is a truck driver. So you got to use truck driver terms, man. You gotta use truck driver terms.
When Sneo was calling for unity among your people, Muslim Lancer crashed out.
Oh, yeah. Yeah, I know for sure. Yeah, that's kind of like, you know, the I think you people were saying he's like a Wahhabi.
I don't really know or care for those terms, but yeah. You know, I went to Juma, which you know, Juma is obviously our congregation day. I went to Juma last week and the main imam or the the Kib that was what they call the the Kib, the guy who gives the or is it whatever the name is, the imam who's given the the the lecture during the Juma on the hbah um he was even calling for unity.
So whatever is going online is not a proper representation of Islam.
Obviously like if that like that has to be the case, right? I I would even argue the exact same thing for Christianity.
For all the Christian apologetics, that is not the true representation of Christianity. I'm fully convinced by that.
>> You don't think a baby can learn from you?
>> A suckling baby cannot Yeah. He's not going to comprehend anything. If you're going to go to the kindergarten for little babies, kids, infants, you're not going to understand anything. You're going to be like, "Da, >> I'm I'm in uh California.
Are you going to send people after me now? After my conspiracy theory talk?"
>> That's That's going to be the conversation. So, I'm not going to have a conversation with these infants because they don't have the rational capacity to do so. If you're unable to, this is the thing. If I ask you a question and you're unable to answer the question and then you you proceed to make a claim and then you not support your claims, then that you cannot this is not a rational conversation. I don't conversation goes as following.
>> You're the one making the claim.
>> You're the one making the claim >> that there's there's a god in >> Did I Did I say there's a god in my conversation with you?
>> No. With my conversation [clears throat] >> my entire stream in my entire stream from beginning to end. I've been live now for two hours 20 minutes. Have I ever said this statement? There is a god in my conversation.
>> I I think it was implied.
>> Okay. So So all you have is an implication. So you agree with me I haven't said that especially in my opinion >> are you denying it? Are you denying it?
>> Yes I'm denying the fact that I said there is a god like this and this way in our discussion I didn't say that. So what I'll tell you now when you have a conversation you start now by building premises and foundations. I'm going to stick to my arguments. You came to me asked me the question.
>> You're in Chicago. Nice. Yeah. I actually when I was in Chicago I visited um the masid downtown. It was the Islamic center I believe. I was I prayed I prayed fudra there. Alhamdulillah. Um my brother lives in Chicago. I would love to go visit Chicago and may and maybe come bring a message together inshallah.
>> Why should I believe? I responded to I said I don't need to convince you. This is what I started. You see, you know, I wrote an I can open book with all due respect because this is I knew you gonna come with this. I said to you the beginning I said look I don't need to convince you wrong. If you want to have a rational conversation, this is the difference between a truth seeker.
>> I think this is pretty rational.
>> Yeah. Is the difference between a truth seeker and someone who's coming there who doesn't have anything. Okay. You think it's rational to come into a conversation, get asked a question but not answer it and then make it like a hole in the wall. Masid, I can't remember which one it was, but it was like a little hole in the wall on some like main street. I can't remember exactly where, but it it was this past summer.
claims without supporting them. How How is that a rational conversation exactly?
>> You're >> I mean, again, you got to understand that yo, this is a Midwestern truck, a guy from the Midwest in America truck driver. Like, you got to bring it down a level, bro. You just got to bring it down a level, man. You got to understand who you're talking to.
>> Twisting it around.
>> I'm not twisting anything. I asked you the question.
>> I asked you the question. I asked you the question who said >> this is a call.
>> But at the same time like I can I can understand that you know after doing this for years it's just some people can get super annoying and and and yeah this could be tough >> to ask questions.
Run you said that I'm twisting things.
So I'm going to highlight how I'm not twisting things. I asked you a question.
The question I asked you was you made a claim first. First let's start with the idea. You made a claim like I said which is that there are people who said something can come out of nothing. So you made a claim. I asked substantiated.
You refused. Wait. You refused to substantiate.
>> I didn't say it was true.
>> I I think they have proved something can come from nothing.
>> You didn't say it was true, but you made a claim. Oh, that's a good point, Wanderer. Yeah, potentially.
Potentially.
It It's because it becomes political, you know. I mean, you know, I think someone was as someone I I posted um a more political video recently and someone was like going on about like America and like the political leadership, but you can almost say the exact like I mean obviously can't say the exact same things, but you know the political leadership in a lot of these Gulf countries are very oppressive as well. Like we know that to be true against their own brothers which is very unfortunate. Still you said there are people you said this possible because there are people who proved you these are your words now you're saying you didn't say it was true you see the hypocrisy ro you literally said there are people who proved there is something that can >> they said they proved mean >> okay now you changed your wording it's okay you said there are people who proved >> can you let me >> this is what you want to talk about [laughter] >> I agree um yeah you got welcome so long I I if I was I would go from the beginning here Okay.
>> Yeah. I want to talk about what you said. I want to talk about what you said. Yes. [laughter] What you said is there is people There is people who proved. Prove proved imply proof. There is people who prove that there is something that can come out of nothing.
So you made a clear I asked you to substantiate. Substantiate. Please let me finish.
>> I didn't refuse. I just don't know who it was. I'm not I'm not >> Okay. Can I finish >> I'm not going to I'm I'm not going to >> Can I Can I finish without being interrupted? and I will let you speak without interrupting you. Okay? Please don't interrupt me and I'll not interrupt you. It's a conversation. So, you made a claim, you did not substantiate it. So, I made a I said two things about you. One, you come and you make claim without substantiating them.
And I give an example here. You made a claim, you didn't substantiate it.
Number two, I said I asked you questions which you don't answer. I ask you the question, who are these people? What did they say? Because if you say, I heard people say something, then you at least have a name. You at least have a video.
You at least have an art. You have something. I mean, you read something somewhere >> the vid before this one.
>> Yeah.
>> See, at least >> I just think that I I think after doing this for two hours, you know, tensions are probably high and it's like you got to understand who you're talking to, man. This guy's a truck driver. Like, [laughter] this guy's a truck driver.
You know, you can't expect, you know, it like it's funny, intellectually bankrupt atheist. It's like, mate, he's just a truck driver in America, bro. This guy's not going to be I mean, maybe, I don't know, maybe there's some smart truck drivers out there. Allahel knows best.
But you know, and maybe he's playing games. I don't know. But you know, this is where the part where it's like, okay, why are we arguing about what people said? Can we just get to the point?
>> No. What they said, who they were, what Okay, so if you don't have you don't have you can't answer questions and you don't have substantiation for the arguments [laughter] that you make, why do I need to how can I have a rational discussion? Okay, let's have Okay, let me let me make it easy for you. There is a God drone. There is a God drawn and there is undoubtable evidences for the existence of God.
>> Okay.
>> Why do you believe that?
>> There's people who said that. There's people who prove that.
>> Okay. So, why should I believe that?
>> I didn't ask you to believe it. That's what I started the conversation with.
>> You asked me about me, right? I I responded to you. You asked me. at you.
There is people pro proof there's a god.
>> Okay.
>> Huh?
>> I'm not sure what this does for for Muslims. [laughter] >> You see how you're unable to have a conversation with me when I apply your same >> All right. That was a good taekwond do tyon move same ideology to you. Come on.
Like this is literally what you did and now you're you now you're speechless. I >> I didn't call in to talk about something from nothing.
Uh well you if you call then you have a conversation. You're not you don't dictate terms. I I told you what do you want to talk about? Actually I let you speak. Then you said to me what do you want to convince me? You had a conversation. I said to you okay when I have a conversation then no worries let's have a conversation. I'm not here to convince you. You said do you want to convin? I said no I'm not here to convince you. But then you then I asked you a question about you said about the existence of God. We started to talk about the existence of God. So I asked you a very Russian question. If I stop 100 people in the streets and I asked them can something come from nothing? If not 100, 99% of them will say no. So if someone cannot apply common sense, then of course I cannot have a rational conversation with them. Common sense is that rationality is common between people. And if you don't believe me, go right now when you stop, if you're going to stop to, you know, go to the toilet or buy some drink or whatever, ask the guy in the shop, can something come from absolute nothing? Go do it. Try it, you know, and come back. The guy will be like, no, can I have that's that's literally what magic is like, you know, you open your hat and you start having random things coming out of it. gold and silver, you know, I'll just stay at home and I'll have gold and silver coming.
And that's not even nothing because we already have a universe. I'm saying if there is nothing at all, no universe, no planets, no stars. So there is no nothing that exists and there's no agency and whatever. How can we have something that comes into existence if it's absolute nothingness and I give you >> all right? I'll I'll grant it to you just just to move.
>> I don't want you. No, no, no, no. I I I'm good. Thank you for for being so uh generous and gracious with me. But it's not about that. It's about actually understanding, comprehending, and having rational discourse. It's not about for the sake of argument, you're going to say, "Okay, you know what? I'm I'm going to grant you that."
>> Yeah. I I'll grant it to you. Something can't come from nothing.
>> Okay. Then what did the >> to move on?
>> So the universe has to come from something then.
>> Sure.
>> Okay. So that thing that brought the universe into existence, it must have attributes that is way beyond what we can imagine. If you want to create a full universe of atoms that is full of energy, if you split, you have nuclear explosions full of zillions of galaxies and stars and intricate systems and electromagnetic waves or whatever. You have knowledge we cannot even comprehend. That's what people refer to as God. The most powerful, the all knowing piece of attributes that they give to the creator. You must >> wait. What did you just say?
>> Yeah, I thought you're in the room.
Well, I agree.
It's just because, you know, he's probably used to these atheists that come in like with like very strong convictions. It it almost seems like this this wrong guy is actually open to to to wanting to believe because he said he had a friend named Muhammad that wanted him to come on the call.
Um, yeah. I mean, like, you know, I think this is good research like from our perspective, right? Because we got to like, you know, as Islam continues to grow, you know, there's going to be more YouTubers. Hopefully there's more YouTubers like me in the future that um you know also want to spread the truth as well from their own perspective.
But it's like you know these people it seems like this guy's actually curious and he wants to believe in something. I mean dude you're a truck driver and so um and so I would hope that uh yeah it's just like he you know you can maybe he's getting fed up. He's been doing this for over two two hours. He doesn't want to hear about it. It's just like at the same point, yeah, you got to understand who who your audience is.
>> Having power when we say most powerful or uh the most knowing or whatever these attributes that we give are the what we mean is that have knowledge we can even comprehend. Have power we cannot even comprehend. So these attributes are the ones that we attribute to the creator.
You cannot create a universe without these attributes. It's funny when people talk about like all these apologetic people, you know, even Muslim lantern, Orthodox Muslim, right? You know, Christian Prince, God logic, whoever, all these people. It's like Dr. Zach or Nike even. It's like you guys are saying because of their argument, I have to follow the winner of that one specific notion or that one specific time period.
Right? Here's the truth. Here's the thing.
Orthodox Muslim, Muslim lantern, Dr. Zacharik, right? Mo Muhammad Hijab, God, God logic, inspiring philosophy. All of those people are not my prophet.
All of those people are not the prophet that I follow. Right? So they could have their arguments. One could win, one could lose. It doesn't matter to me.
Rasulu, the holy prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, sallallahu alaihi wasallam, is my final prophet and messenger that I follow and I embrace the sunnah. So all of these like outside apologetic arguments where they look super cringe and they're just yelling at each other.
And even this video right here does not affect the way I believe and what my religion is ever. and it would never will cuz there's one prophet that that I believe is the final messenger and I follow him and I do my best to embrace As soona to the best of my ability. I don't care about this one specific instance where someone would have won or someone would have lost. It happens. It happens to the best of us and it happens to the worst of us where there's debates, someone wins, someone loses.
Maybe it's a tie. It's probably all cringe. But at the end of the day, I don't care what any of them do or say.
It's it's good entertainment sometimes, but ultimately there's one prophet that I follow as a final messenger and that's Rasulah Salam and I do my best to embrace to the best of my ability.
You got to be independent of the universe. You got to be the creator of time and space literally as we know it.
Time space continuum is there. So you know the future not bound by space the way we are. You're powerful knowledge.
>> You added a creator.
>> Yeah. A creator means to bring the universe to exist. We just said something can come from nothing.
Something the universe comes from something. So we're saying if the universe comes from something then by default that's a creator of the universe.
That's what creator means. You bring something into existence.
Muhammad hijab I think. So I've only watched a little bit of Muhammad like a little tiny bit of Muhammad hijab in my life.
So I'm not I think he means Christian Prince. But yeah, CP is bad. CP is very That's a very bad statement to say. But I think he means Christian Prince. It's just weird when Christians say, "Oh, you should talk to CP." And I'm like, "Mate, I'm not getting into CP, man." Like, [laughter] like, wow, that's a horrible thing I just said right there if there was no context. But yeah, saying the word C next saying the letter C next to the word P is bad. Like, that's very bad.
And it's weird that Christians say follow that guy. Um, but what do I think about Muhammad Hijab? I think his laugh like again maybe this is backbiting whatever, you know, may Allah forgive me of my shortcomings. This is just my opinion.
They're public people. I don't know.
But from what I Yeah. So why should I care about you know who cares about CP is Epstein. He cares about CP, man. Um, but when it comes to Muhammad A job, I've only seen so little of the guy. I I think but there what I've seen, he seems very smart, but he also, you know, gives arro like he can um he seems arrogant sometimes.
Right. I know. I'm I'm l I literally just created the perfect case for me to get clipped up and cancelled, which would be would be rough, which would be rough. It happens to me. It doesn't. Um but yeah I think um and and and this is this is what all apologetic people do like I like not maybe not all of them but a lot of them right you see a lot of them become very arrogant um there are there is a verse in the Quran it's the it's from the fourth surah um ayia 63 I believe let me bring it up surah 4 ayia it's either 63 3 or 64. Let me look it up right here.
Um, yes, it's it's translated interesting on this one, but we'll still look at it right here.
So, here we go.
Allah knows best what is in their hearts. So turn away from them, caution [snorts] them, and give them advice that will shake their souls. Right? So essentially what this means is that when you're in argument with people, right? I I looked in this earlier because I literally just read it this morning. Um when but when you're in argument with people, turn away from them, warn them, but also, you know, be be firm with them. Be firm with them about how they're being hypocrites.
Let's see. Let's see. Um and they do not wish for judgment. Turn away from them.
Let's see. um sent down chastising the hypocrites. Okay. Um befalls onen them. Okay. Not that you're not seeing the hypocrites. We meant no good. The hypocrites or those who turn away from Allah to turn aside from them.
But yeah, mo them here. Here it is. But mash them. So it means advise them against the hypocrisy and evil that reside in their hearts. So when you talk to hypocr like like Allahel is literally telling us right in the Quran that if we're ever in arguments with hypocrites we need to point it out right like as Muslims Allahel is literally informing us that we need to point it out. So like that's why this this is kind of translated weirdly because it's supposed to be admonish them rather than caution them and then give them advice that will shake their souls.
And so it says it right here. Um adasha means to give them advice against the hypocrisy and evil that residing them and you and speak to them effective word to reach their inner self. So we need to advise them and using effective words that will that will tell their heart that hey you are being a hypocrite right right now like you're like like you know I was in argument where someone was telling me that um that I was stretching the truth and it's like well that's an accusation that you're omitting about yourself honestly um I'm just I'm tell I'm asking you to prove this one thing I I have this statement I'm asking you to give me examples you haven't given me examples you're giving me outside examples and I'm not like you So that's what you're doing right here. And people will call that a two quote full fallacy, whatever that stupid philosophical thing.
Um, but you know, like so yeah, we need like it the Quran tells us to be firm to to be kind to the to the believers and be firm to the non-believers. And when there's hypocrisy, we're being we're literally being told to point it out, right? We're literally being told to point it out.
And so you know that's why like I can understand it sometimes when some of um these Muslim apologetics um are very firm but sometimes like is the question does it become arrogant right does it become arrogant and is it a good look for Islam is the question you know so that's why I see Muslim lantern where he is trying to point out the hypocrisy in Ron he is but at the same time like was Ron coming in being a hypocrite or was he actually just like is he just a truck driver Is he just a truck driver?
Um, but yeah, you said hijab wouldn't disagree with you. Yeah. Yeah. To quote fallacy. Yeah. Exactly.
Exactly. And it's like, well, God is actually telling us as Muslims that we need to point out the hypocrisy.
Um, so yeah, but yeah, that's so that's what I think about Muhammad. I I you know, I I' I've maybe watched 10 minutes ever in total and I'm that's like I'm being generous. It could have been five.
It could have been maybe five minutes, maybe 15, maybe 20. I don't know. Let like whatever. Not a whole lot of time is what I'm saying. And so, um, can they be can these Muslim apologetic people be a little extra? Maybe. Is it a good look? I would say sometimes no. But maybe they are doing the right thing.
Allahel knows best. Um, would I do would I do it differently? I would try. Um, but maybe my way of doing it is wrong.
So, who knows?
May maybe something else brought it into existence.
>> Yeah. Whatever that thing whatever the thing you're just putting that in there now. Now the burden proof is on you for the creator.
>> Whatever the thing whatever the thing that brought the universe into existence is the creator.
>> Maybe it was always here.
>> Oh, it was always here.
>> How do you know this?
>> How do you know?
>> I'm answering.
>> How do you know this? Okay. If you let me speak, I'm answering you. Okay. So, we know this because we can have observe something called the expansion of the universe. We can observe things like the red shifting. Can observe the universe going back to space being a very small singularity that the consensus of science today talk about refer to as the big bang. We can observe the radiations left from the expansion of the big bang.
All of these are evidences for the the start of the beginning of the universe which is why it's a consensus today in the uh cosmologist field. So yeah, that's why we can say, you see, I can give you answers. I'm not just going to make a claim, but I can give you answers. Yeah. So the universe has a starting point. Whatever brought the universe into existence is what we call God.
The creator.
>> Okay.
>> There is a creator. There we go.
>> So maybe on a bad day, >> you agree there's a creator.
>> Uhhuh.
>> I wouldn't call it a creator. I I wouldn't call it a creator, but I could say >> Okay. Did you just agree with me that the universe has to come from something?
That means that something will bring it into existence, right?
>> No, it might have been always here.
>> So, the universe has to come >> Oh, jeez. Okay. So, all right.
I I can understand his frustration.
[laughter] I can understand his frustration.
>> Something then.
>> Sure.
>> Okay. So, so did I just give you reasons why the universe started? You asked me how do you know? And did I give you reasons from specialized people in the field who are mostly atheists? Actually, most of them like yourself. They don't need to believe in a god. But they will still tell you the truth is the evidence leads us to the fact that the universe has a starting point uh [gasps] all it says is there was a big bang. the the the thing that banged was always there.
>> What's the big bang?
>> So they're they're not saying that there was a beginning.
>> Yeah. What's the big >> or what or what it came from?
>> What's the big bang?
>> The the expansion the the sudden expansion of of matter.
>> It's not.
>> Yeah. Okay. So there was matter and space compressed into a singularity.
>> Singularity is a very small thing. Okay.
Where does the energy matter come from and how is >> in science there's something called >> I'm answering you in science there's something called cause and effect so that's an effect so it requires a cause so it's upon you now if you you're saying you don't know you don't not knowing doesn't mean there's no answer you know if your if your cake is missing from your fridge >> doesn't mean [laughter] I'm sure there's an answer nobody ate it >> yeah okay so I'm giving you the answer now I'm telling you the only thing that will have power to compress an entire universe into a singularity and expanded in the way the universe expanded is what we refer to as a creator.
>> Okay.
>> So there is a creator >> like I was saying on on a bad day you might be able to get me to believe that but you're you're taking it a step further.
You're saying you know the mind of this creator. And I would say that needs a whole lot of evidence to say that's not a modest claim.
>> Well, obviously because this guy hasn't read the Quran, right? God tells us who God is. We have a a book that literally tells us who God is.
>> To say that, you know, the mind of a creator.
>> You've been giving these people advice throughout the show. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, man. Okay, I can understand where like now the title the title here is becoming extremely like obvious of why this was used.
>> Joe, yeah, you've been giving these people advice. This young lady >> I think I think we found another alt alt account here.
>> Can you tell me where where I said I know the mind?
>> It's now adding it's now it's now all adding up. I think we found another alt account. That's crazy. That is absurd.
creator. When did I say that?
>> You didn't use those words specifically, but you're telling >> people what they should do about marriage and kids and and this and that.
>> Can you retract Okay. So, can you retract the second false claim you made in this discussion? Attributing something to me. I haven't said because we don't even the word mind to the creator. I don't I wouldn't say that because don't use that word.
>> Are you saying you don't know what what God wants, the creator wants? No, I know what the creator told me. This is what I know. I know the creator revealed, but nobody knows everything that >> that's a that's a pretty big claim, wouldn't you say?
>> Wouldn't you say that's a pretty big claim to make?
>> Yeah. Yeah, it's it's a big claim. And if you'd like >> It's a big claim. And And a big claim would require big evidence, would it not?
>> No. No. No. No. No. Before we go to the claim, >> No. A big claim does not require big evidence. Before we go to that claim, >> Before we go to the big claim, you've already discarded everything.
>> Before we go to the big what you claiming is the big claim, you've already discarded everything I said to you and I said >> on a bad day, >> you said it was a big claim. So since you said on a on a after I hear >> but no I mean um rehab if if if you think I'm if if you think I'm calling you the alt account that's not I'm not calling you the alt account um giving you evidence [laughter] I responded to you after I actually given you evidence I responded to you said on a bad day you may be able to convince me you're clearly showing me I'm wasting my time because I'm not having conversation there was a creator able to reason because if you were able to reason you'd be like okay yeah that makes sense actually you made an argument or you bring response at least you' be like okay that makes sense so there is a creator I I agree and then we can move on to the big claim but if you are someone who can even comprehend like a common sense and accept basic rationality then I'm not going to go on and like spend my >> yeah seeing seeing someone who's pushing a trinitarian narrative say that Ron is right >> come on man that's that's easy you just exposed yourself sir >> time giving you the the That's rational.
>> By the by the way, there there is a Okay. What's irrational in what I said, >> a creator?
>> Uh, okay. Cool. So, on my channel, there's a video titled compelling evidences for the truthfulness of Islam.
It's nearly an hour long video. You're welcome to go sit down, have your headphones, you're driving, listen to it carefully, and you'll know your answer for the for the big claim. But I don't see the the the level of sincerity that requires me.
>> You can also just tell like, you know, it's it's hard when when you have a certain style of writing. This is not a comment about the video, by the way.
This is comment about something in the chat. But when you have a certain style of writing, you can easily pick up on like if if that's if if another account has a certain like a very similar style of writing. I'm obviously exposing the playbook from my point of view like what my playbook is to understand these things. But when you see someone you know for example say that someone is a snake someone's now using um you know a a Christian person quoting the Quran right you know you see a Christian person saying that you know um yeah that uh that Ron is right here. You see a Christian person saying, "Yeah, I mean, this is this is easy to understand." Yeah, this all makes sense now.
Here we go.
That's funny.
Yeah.
Yeah. You expose yourself.
I mean, you know, it's we had uh I had two of the alt accounts respond to each other yesterday in a comment section.
Cringe >> to sit down here and explain it a bit by bit with you. It's already late for me, so I'm going to end the stream here.
>> So, I'm going to leave leave us where we are. We've already established existence of God for anybody who's >> I hope to see Ron back on. I think this kind of went up and down. I think you had to I think Muslim Lantern should have known his audience at first. You got to remember like what the qualifications of this person is. Um what the qualifications of this person are. Um yeah, he wasn't tracking too well. Um and you know, he wanted to be a little bit defiant. Oh, welcome Salum. What's up, Sumane?
I'm literally about to end stream too.
[laughter] I'm literally about to end stream. Um, yeah, when it came to this, it didn't seem like he was kind of interested, but then he but then like he made him go on Muzzle Mansion put him on his back feet way too quickly. You can't put people on their back heels cuz then just they're just going to become completely defensive.
Um, but you he did point at the hypocrisy when their hypocrisy was due >> and you say it's not rational the creator and that was a great counterargument that you presented. I know the people can see that. So we let people judge this conversation. All right, Ron, have a nice rest of your day. And like I said, I read you like an open book from the beginning. I I know.
Look, don't even let you speak. The minute you come and you >> That's true. Like to be fair, he's been doing this for way longer than I have.
Obviously, he's been doing this for a very long time. So maybe he just was already ready for that. This is going to be a bad conversation. Eliza John knows best.
>> Like convince me. What do you have to prove? I don't need to convince you, man. Like you're living your life. I'm living Look, I'm living a happy life.
Many people are there's many people who are you don't you don't have to convince anybody is the biggest but you have a show religion Islam is the biggest growing religion in the world and we're here >> so your show must just be for >> and we're here open for people who are interested or willing to have a discussion most importantly willing to actually listen you know like we don't talk over each other I mean I let you speak I don't know I'm not even trying to say a sentence not letting me finish it man like >> yeah there was there's a lot of that I give credit where credit is due all right to start off like of three okay if I had to give my Um yeah um so I'm like welcome uh I'll come me and myself um may like um may Allah um accept your salah but um what was I going to say um that yeah this conversation I was going to rate it like a three out of 10. I was a little concerned. I was a little disappointed but I would say it went out like a seven out of 10. You know maybe it was a little disingenuous. I don't know. I would I would still be hesitant.
I mean, he's been doing this for two hours. He's probably annoyed. He's probably talked to too many people.
Probably got annoy probably got annoyed by a lot of people. I'm back after I think.
Wait, Max. Do you think Ron was seeking?
This stream was nine days ago. Do I think Ron was seeking or a bad actor? In the beginning, it did seem like he was trying to seek because Okay, let let's let's overanalyze this.
I always tell the people >> you're asking for not why should I questions >> yeah because >> parked now but >> yeah okay >> I was listening a little while I was driving >> Sure sure usually the connection seems >> my friend Muhammad said uh >> yeah so he said his friend Muhammad which to be honest like okay if if I'm taking it for face value he has a friend named Muhammad but what white truck driver in America What white truck driver in America has a friend named Muhammad?
Come on. Now that Now that again, we're overanalyzing it. This is the over Okay, we watched it. We analyzed it. Now, this is the we're overanalyzing this. What white mi Midwestern guy in America has a friend named Muhammad?
Subhan Allah. So he's probably already starting starting off with a lie >> because if you're driving sometimes the internet is going up and down so hopefully it's okay. But yeah, you're saying >> Allahel knows best. Maybe. Hey, alhamdulillah. Maybe he does have a maybe he does have a best friend named Muhammad. Maybe he does. Maybe he does.
If if I want to take it with a grain of salt, like take it for face value. He does. But I mean, come on, man. Come on.
I don't know. That sounds fishy to me, man.
>> A friend said what?
uh to to to call in.
>> Okay. Sure.
>> To to talk to you to ask to ask questions.
>> Sure.
>> I was uh why should someone believe? I'm a non-believer. Why should I believe?
>> And so and and also um he could be I mean maybe he knows a guy named Muhammad. Yeah. Well, he said that his friend Muhammad told told him to get on stream.
Um, so again, maybe face value. Maybe maybe he's telling the truth. Maybe he's telling the truth. At the same time, I highly dude, first of all, if you're a truck driver, I'm I'm Dude, that's a lonely life, bro. That's a lonely life.
You like you you don't you spend literally your entire life pretty much on the road or at at gas stations, right? You're driving for like 12 hours across America. This isn't like you drive a couple hours a day. You're literally driving like 12 hours a day across America back and forth, right?
It's not it's not a lavish life like lifestyle. You you don't have a whole lot of friends. You don't have a whole lot of time to have friends.
Yeah, he could. I mean, look look like you know like like people get nervous all the time, right? You know, people get nervous um on stream and so I and I'm not saying that's a bad thing. like is that like this is his first time. I mean I mean okay maybe he's he's been doing this all the time but you know you're on someone's show there's some nerves like how are you going to present yourself right do you have a plan do you go off plan whatever it may be you know like so that's not a point against him I'm not taking that point against him at all the point that in question is does he have a friend named Muhammad or not that's suspicious man that's suspicious >> we're not asking anybody to believe >> yeah we're asking anybody to believe you're asking for you asking for non-believers to call in. Why were you asking non-believers to call in?
>> Let's see. I I think Oh >> yeah. So what I say is if there's any non-Muslims that would like to talk, they're welcome to click on the link pin in the comment section. So you see the phrase is very, you know, I think it's very clear. So if any have questions about them. So there's a difference between me being accessible because that's my obligation as a Muslim and me being a salesman. And I always tell people it's very important for people to understand.
>> So you can see that he does like this >> between being accessible to the people because if someone has a question, right, as you see those people, come on.
See, oh, I have a question. They're trying to talk to you. They're looking for someone to answer your questions.
They're seekers. So, we need to be outlets for people. Now, you have example salesmen like you know some religions with the microphone chat shouting screaming the streets, right?
We don't do that. Some teaches us it's only upon the messenger to deliver the message.
>> See this is where I think he's actually being genuine.
>> That's it. So, when you it's not upon us to convince anyone. So, someone says why should I leave? We would say first idea is not a question of believe. It's a question of truth. So, is there I don't know.
>> See says why should I believe? We would say first the idea is not a question of believe. It's a question of truth. So is is there I don't know.
>> I like that.
>> See, so you could see that he's like actually curious. He's like, you know what? Maybe this could be a fruitful conversation. He's not trying to sell me something. He just wants to have a discussion. So that's why I think he might be genuine.
>> Muslim.
Yeah. I'm an atheist. Sure. Sure. So it's a question of truth.
>> I'm seeking truth.
>> Okay. Now he says he's seeking truth. Is if I'm going from point to point where he seem genuine, maybe he's being non-genuine here. Maybe he just wants to have a little fight.
>> Sure. So, >> so yeah. Anyways, that that so I think started off rough majority, but maybe towards the end he he it was like, okay, maybe he's seen this playbook a thousand times. I don't know. That's just my opinion.
Um, but here we go. Um, okay, we're ending stream here. Thank you guys all for joining. I know this was an early stream. This wasn't like my typical time. Um, I just kind of wanted to do a stream in the morning. I was like, you know what? Let's just get out of the way. Um, you know, we'll pro I'm going to stream again on Thursday, probably at the more typical time around 2 3 PM PST.
Um, but yeah, thank you guys all for joining. Um, I do have to pray Dorard right now. Um, yeah, thank you all for joining. Like, you know, I I'm I'm just so grateful for this community.
Honestly, I think about all the time.
I'm just like, wow, I'm just so lucky to have the community that I have. I have a new short out. I'm going to be doing this new series like talking about hadiths. Um, again, I'm not a scholar.
I'm not a a student of knowledge. I'm barely a layman. And so yeah, I hope you guys um go check out my short and and and tell me what you think. Tell me if I got anything wrong. Tell me how I should maybe change it up. Whatever it is, I'll be making these shorts like hopefully inshallah like one or two times a week.
Um you know, one, two, three times a week, whatever it may be. But um but yeah, again, you know, thank you guys all for joining. This was a fun stream. We we went over different topics. We're going to keep our eye on the haunt virus hopefully. um you know, see what our thoughts are. But yeah, I think things are going to get kind of weird in the next month. I think things are going to get pretty weird in the next two months.
We'll see what happens, man. We'll see what happens. Yeah. Anyways, I'll I'll I'll see you guys on Thursday. Yeah.
Salam. Yeah. May Allahel bless all the true believers. May Allahel guide all the non-believers in this chat. And you know, may Allahel protect us from the punishment of the hellfire, from the punishment of the grave, and from falling and from following the false messiah. I mean, well, I'll check I'll see you guys live on Thursday and uh yeah, hope to, you know, continue to, you know, continue to build this community with you
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