The Odyssey Review: The Discourse Lied to You

[00:00:00]The Odyssey is pretentious and boring.

[00:00:02]Viral out of the theater reaction confirms our worst fears.

[00:00:05]>> Thousands of unsold seats for Saturday showings of The Odyssey in Hollywood, the epicenter of the woke mind virus.

[00:00:12]>> Everyone who gave this movie more than a half a star is a bot.

[00:00:15]>> New video clip, Elliot Page's Oscar bait role revealed.

[00:00:19]>> An honest review of The Odyssey.

[00:00:20]>> Haven't seen it, >> never will.

[00:00:22]>> The Hollywood establishment really wants people to watch and absorb woke trash.

[00:00:25]They manipulate everything they can.

[00:00:27]>> It's 2 hours and 45 minutes >> terrible.

[00:00:33]>> We need to talk about The Odyssey.

[00:00:35]Welcome back to Movies Good, Internet Bad. I'm Corey, that's Shane.

[00:00:39]Uh, and before we even get into this, we need to, for some strange reason, talk about how we've seen the movie and we want to discuss the movie, but uh, we need to discuss the thoughts and opinions of folks who hadn't seen a single frame for any of that. So, we're going to cover some of that controversy or non-troversy, as I've been calling it. Uh, and then we're going to talk about the movie, which we both found to be shockingly highly enjoyable.

[00:01:00]>> A Christopher Nolan movie is a is a good movie. Uh, the sky is blue, the grass is green, I'm bald, and that's why I'm wearing a hat. Uh, all right, Shane, so you you're the the more chronically online of the two of us.

[00:01:14]>> that's not good.

[00:01:15]>> Hit me hit me with what what is the problem here? What what is everybody upset about?

[00:01:21]>> Well, I think what's fascinating about this whole discussion is that we we've sort of had this culture war thing going on in media discourse for a long time.

[00:01:32]But, I think this movie specifically is what cements the discourse as like, we have totally lost our way. Like, just as a culture, how we talk about movies, how we talk about art in general, >> Mhm.

[00:01:45]>> every single thing is now viewed under this lens of like, do I agree with this politically? Then it's good. Do I disagree with this politically? Then it's the worst thing to ever exist in the history of mankind.

[00:01:59]And for some reason it was like we threw the baby out with the bathwater cuz like I'll I'll give a couple of examples of like where this has happened in the past. Like the Snow White remake for example.

[00:02:09]>> Ah, yes.

[00:02:10]>> Snow White remake, huge culture war.

[00:02:12]Rachel Zegler can't be Snow White because she's not white enough. Skin is white as snow. What whatever.

[00:02:18]Um however, that movie was also really bad. Just in general. If you take out any of the culture war stuff, it is a bad movie.

[00:02:26]>> Still bad movie.

[00:02:27]>> Yeah. And so I think people saw, oh, this movie did poorly.

[00:02:30]And it didn't review well. And people said, oh, if you go woke, you go broke.

[00:02:36]>> Ah.

[00:02:36]>> It's proof. It is complete proof.

[00:02:38]>> There's a catchphrase built in and everything.

[00:02:40]>> Correct.

[00:02:41]>> Amazing.

[00:02:41]>> And then something like The Acolyte comes along. Same thing happens. Not a very good show.

[00:02:47]Regardless of the diverse cast.

[00:02:48]>> Indeed.

[00:02:49]>> Not a very good show on its own.

[00:02:52]>> Mhm.

[00:02:52]>> And it got canceled. Oh, see, it happened again. See, if you if you just put enough diversity into your film, then it's going to fail.

[00:03:00]>> Mhm.

[00:03:02]Fascinating.

[00:03:02]>> The Odyssey comes along.

[00:03:04]And Christopher Nolan casts Lupita Nyong'o as Helen of Troy.

[00:03:09]And Elliot Page as Achilles, but it wasn't actually Achilles as well.

[00:03:13]Everyone got really upset for no reason.

[00:03:16]Um but Helen of Troy, of course she can't be black even though the poem that this is based off gives no physical description of Helen of Troy. And Helen of Troy did not exist.

[00:03:26]>> All that is said about Helen is that she is the most beautiful woman in the world.

[00:03:30]>> Correct.

[00:03:30]>> That's it. That you don't get anything else about height, weight, skin color, straight teeth, crooked teeth, big eyes, small eyes, brown eyes, green eyes, none of it. None of that's there, right?

[00:03:41]Okay.

[00:03:42]I'm just checking. I'm making sure that I didn't miss anything here.

[00:03:46]>> And what but what's fascinating is that everyone saw those two things and said, it's happening again.

[00:03:51]See?

[00:03:51]>> Oh, no.

[00:03:51]>> Even Christopher Nolan, he's doing this.

[00:03:54]Elon Musk comes out and said he's only doing this to win an Oscar. Even though Oppenheimer uh well, had the exact same standards for diversity and inclusion that this did. And Oppenheimer had like a 99.9% all-white cast.

[00:04:09]And it won Best Picture, and he won a bunch of Oscars for >> cast for that.

[00:04:13]>> Uh true. There's a couple of I mean, women in that movie. Correct.

[00:04:17]Uh because the standards don't care about actual cast. It's representation across the entire film, making the film, production, internships.

[00:04:27]And this movie and Oppenheimer both qualified regardless of cast. So, that's not the reason at all.

[00:04:35]So, I've seen that talking point going around over and over again. But, I think what's fascinating about this is that like this movie is actually quite good.

[00:04:44]And you're going to have a bunch of people telling you that it's horrible without having seen it, maybe having seen a 90 I saw some guy tweet today that he saw a 90 seconds of it off a cam rip and decided that the movie is as bad as the he expected it to be. I'm like, you saw 90 seconds of the film filmed from a cell phone, and all right, and you have decided your verdict on the film.

[00:05:05]>> Right on.

[00:05:06]>> And and there was this whole thing about let's cancel this film, let's make it flop, let's, you know, it's going to be horrible. Everyone's saying no one's going to go see this movie. And yet, all of the box office tracking so far This we're recording this on Thursday.

[00:05:20]Yep. But, all the indications so far is that it's going to be it's going to over-perform its box office projections.

[00:05:26]>> Yes. So, I want to rewind for a couple seconds.

[00:05:30]And I want to dig a little bit deeper into these Oscar rules and standards and whatnot, okay? I have the page right here on my computer.

[00:05:38]You have it on your computer as well, cuz I sent it to you before we recorded.

[00:05:42]The way that this whole thing works for representation and inclusion standards is that there are four different standards that the Academy has when it comes to this stuff. There is standard A, which is on-screen representation, there's standard B, which is creative leadership in the project team, there's standard C, which is industry access and opportunities, i.e., uh paid apprenticeships and internship opportunities, and there's standard D, which is audience development, which refers to marketing, publicity, distribution.

[00:06:17]In order to qualify, you only have to meet two out of those four standards. So, in theory, if Christopher Nolan wanted to make The Odyssey, where every single character was a white man, and then every person behind the camera was a white man, he would be able to, and it would be eligible for an Oscar, as long as people in those other departments were women or LGBTQ or different ethnicities or or what have you. So, correct.

[00:06:49]You can find this We'll We'll put the link to this in the description in the video if you want to see what we're talking about. Um the the whole point there is uh don't blindly follow and believe everything that you see on Twitter, okay? Of all places on the internet, that's probably the the least reputable to get any of your information for anything. Uh anyway, moving on.

[00:07:14]Uh the other thing that is hilarious about all this stuff to me is that this is not Oppenheimer.

[00:07:22]This is not a movie that is based off of real-life history.

[00:07:26]>> Correct.

[00:07:26]>> This is a 3,000-year-old poem that is basically a series of stories that has been passed down from generation to generation that was written by someone, Homer, who we don't even know for certain was a real person.

[00:07:43]>> Correct.

[00:07:43]>> There like if you read the translation of the Odyssey that this movie is based off of, there is a massive forward to the book that's like 30 or 40 pages.

[00:07:54]And in that, they talk about all of this stuff where Homer was actually probably more like a couple different people instead of just one person.

[00:08:03]>> Yeah.

[00:08:03]>> They have no idea what gender Homer actually was. Uh and this is a story where there is a Cyclops, >> Cyclops, >> there is a giant whirlpool in the middle of the ocean, there's a six-headed beast that eats people's heads, there's magic.

[00:08:18]This is not real life stuff. This is a story, it's a myth, right?

[00:08:22]>> Yeah.

[00:08:23]I would kind of liken it to a stage production of the Odyssey.

[00:08:28]Uh where you see this a lot in Shakespeare plays where they they'll gender swap, they'll race swap. It it's just find good people for the part and it's more of a retelling of the story through a modern lens than it is like a exact representation >> Yep.

[00:08:45]>> of what was on the page, which is how the Odyssey has been passed down for thousands and thousands of years.

[00:08:51]It's a game of telephone and this is the latest iteration of that game of telephone. Um Helen of Troy is not the first black Helen of Troy. Um Orson Welles cast a black woman as Helen of Troy in in the '50s. And >> Sorry, I'm falling >> Nobody nobody freaked out horribly and then >> god.

[00:09:11]>> But I I think what is fascinating about this is that it it's almost like the high school bullies picked on the the small scrawny kids for long enough that they got confident and they just took a swing at the star quarterback and they're like, "Huh, I can do that Oh, wait.

[00:09:28]Christopher Nolan made a good movie."

[00:09:30]>> It's so tiring.

[00:09:31]>> all shocking.

[00:09:32]>> Like And the funniest thing about it is that it you've talked to me about this off camera, but like those goalposts are on wheels.

[00:09:41]>> Yes.

[00:09:41]>> They're not cemented in the ground. And as soon as everyone was like, "Oh, it's going to be terrible." And then the first reactions came out and people were like, "This is mind-blowing. This is David Lean-style cinema in 2026. This is like a Lawrence of Arabia or a Ben Hur.

[00:09:56]It's incredible. Go see it. IMAX this and that." Well, the goalposts, they shifted. And they're like, "Well, just wait until the Rotten Tomatoes score comes out."

[00:10:03]>> Yeah.

[00:10:03]>> Rotten Tomatoes score comes out and it's 96%. And what's even better, because Rotten Tomatoes is dumb, and this is probably a conversation for another video, but 90% could be 90% of critics thought it was a six out of 10 or higher.

[00:10:18]>> Right.

[00:10:18]>> But Rotten Tomatoes recently re-included their average critic score, which as of right now is an 8.8 out of 10 with 246 critical reviews.

[00:10:30]>> Yeah.

[00:10:30]>> If you go on Metacritic, which is a much harsher rating system for this stuff, it says universal acclaim.

[00:10:37]>> Yeah.

[00:10:37]>> Which you're a video game person. How often does >> now uh are that all of those people were paid by Universal to give good opinions >> Right.

[00:10:46]>> about the movie.

[00:10:47]>> The grift continues.

[00:10:48]>> My question there would be, if that were possible, how would any movie not get a 96% on Rotten Tomatoes?

[00:10:54]>> Correct.

[00:10:55]>> Like everyone was so like when the Supergirl reviews came out and it was like a 50% on Rotten Tomatoes, everyone was like, "Haha, see, it sucks. I told you."

[00:11:04]>> Cuz it's probably >> woman in the league of their own.

[00:11:05]>> those are the same critics that are reviewing the opposite.

[00:11:09]>> Yeah.

[00:11:10]>> So like come on. But to be fair, this does go both ways. I I I see it I I think >> Oh, now it's really woke if it goes both ways.

[00:11:20]>> So I think >> I think uh you see it more from right to left because Hollywood does lean left generally. Just as a party, it's generally art leans left and it has for the past however many years of artistic history.

[00:11:35]>> Yep.

[00:11:36]>> Um it's a very progressive medium.

[00:11:38]Uh however, you do see the opposite.

[00:11:40]Like when Supergirl came out, I I think I saw some tweets say something around the fact of like you can't convince me that a story about a woman taking down a pedophile ring can be anything less than a five out of five. I was like, what does that matter?

[00:11:53]>> Right.

[00:11:53]>> If the movie is bad, it's bad. It doesn't matter like if you agree with the message. You can't just be like, "Hey, the good guy does a good thing in that movie.

[00:12:02]>> But the movie is still bad.

[00:12:04]>> correct. Like the movie is not very good.

[00:12:06]>> Those things can happen together.

[00:12:08]>> Yes, correct.

[00:12:09]>> Yeah.

[00:12:09]>> And I think that's the thing that people have we've just detached from reality so far that like people are not judging films based off of how good is the storytelling, how good is the acting, how good is the cinematography, how good is the music production, how how is this crafted as a whole? Is it telling it something in a unique way?

[00:12:30]It's instead like, "Oh, they've got people of color on screen. It's the worst movie ever made." Or, "Oh, they've got people of color on screen. It's the best movie ever made."

[00:12:41]And it's like, we've just completely lost the plot entirely.

[00:12:45]>> And and it's okay if if you want to support >> Correct.

[00:12:49]>> whatever group of people you want to support. That's that's perfectly fine.

[00:12:53]Like I I'm a New York Yankees fan. I I cheer for the Yankees. I'm not going to go cheer for the Dodgers because they're not the Yankees, right?

[00:13:01]Whatever. Like But at the end of the day, the Dodgers won the World Series last year and the year before that. I can't be like, "The Dodgers suck.

[00:13:10]>> Right.

[00:13:10]>> They're an awful team. They're They're just the worst." No, they're really good.

[00:13:14]>> Yeah.

[00:13:16]>> Oh, Jen, I would have never thought when I was designing my bingo card for 2026, big 26 as as people have been referring to it online.

[00:13:27]That the Christopher Nolan movie would be the most movies good internet bad movie that we review of the entire year. That that that just completely blows my mind in so many different directions, but I think at the end of the day because I'm I'm tired of talking about this already after 10 10 minutes of >> to the movie. Yes.

[00:13:47]>> If if you are really that hung up over a character in a fictional story being played by a black woman that's on you.

[00:13:56]>> Yeah.

[00:13:57]>> Don't go see the movie.

[00:13:58]>> Yeah.

[00:13:59]>> Don't talk about it. Just move on with your life. If it's not If that's not your thing, I mean, maybe take a look a good long look in the mirror at yourself and and ask yourself why that's the thing, but especially when Helen's on screen for what?

[00:14:13]4 minutes >> maybe.

[00:14:16]>> Out of a 180-minute runtime? I mean >> Yeah.

[00:14:20]>> It's it's so so silly, but anyway, >> I really liked this movie.

[00:14:26]>> I did, too.

[00:14:27]>> I thought it was really good, and I would like to talk about the actual movie now.

[00:14:32]>> Let's do it. So, we talked about internet bad. Let's get to movies good.

[00:14:35]>> Let's Let's talk about the movies good portion of it. Uh you know what? There'll be spoilers from here on out. I don't want to try to dance around things. It's a 3,000-year-old story.

[00:14:46]You probably know something that happens in it already. Uh Shane, I want your your unfiltered thoughts, man. What did you think of the film?

[00:14:53]>> So, about I want to say halfway, maybe a third of the way through, I was a little bit worried because I thought it was a little So, the it opens with a lot of exposition.

[00:15:02]>> It does.

[00:15:03]>> And throws a lot at you right away.

[00:15:05]Um where I where it kind of lost me was and this is kind of the problem with the structure of the poem entirely is go to place, bad thing happens, leave place, go to place, bad thing happens, leave place. It's like the the number of shots that we have of them just running back to the boats. It's like, all right, we're doing it again.

[00:15:25]>> Those are all awesome shots though.

[00:15:27]>> They are awesome shots.

[00:15:28]>> incredible.

[00:15:28]>> The scale is great. But I I was getting a little bit bored of the same routine over and over again.

[00:15:36]>> Okay.

[00:15:36]>> And then the movie about halfway through kicks into high gear and starts to tie and weave all of the stories together, and that's where it really found its way. And towards the end of the film, it morphs into something else entirely.

[00:15:50]It's almost I I find it fascinating that the Trojan horse it's clear that that's what was so enticing to Nolan with this story.

[00:15:58]>> Which is funny because it's a framing device in in general.

[00:16:01]>> It's all from the Iliad. None of that is in the Odyssey.

[00:16:04]>> Correct. Um but it it he reframes the story not as a story of perseverance coming home, but a story of sort of atoning for your sins.

[00:16:14]>> Mhm.

[00:16:14]>> Doing a bunch of horrible things and defying the gods and then punishment >> for all of that. Yeah. I I thought the movie was very very much in conversation with Oppenheimer in a weird way.

[00:16:26]>> Yes.

[00:16:27]>> Because it was all about the main character doing some questionable stuff.

[00:16:33]And then even like especially even in this one where there's like a somewhat happy ending, right? He's reunited with his wife, his son takes over and becomes the king, all this good stuff happens.

[00:16:45]He's on his ship, he's all cleaned up.

[00:16:47]They're they're chasing that sunset that they talk about, which is beautifully filmed. Jesus Christ, that sunset shot was incredible. Um but he he has that one little They do the very typical Nolan like Memento quick flash of something and it's the Trojan horse.

[00:17:03]>> Correct.

[00:17:03]>> And it's like he just he no matter how he lives the rest of his days, he won't be able to get past the atrocities that were committed, >> Correct.

[00:17:12]>> and and I thought cuz that's a a lot of that is a very big deviation from >> Yes.

[00:17:18]>> the source material, but I thought it played much better than the book does.

[00:17:23]And and it it just it really makes you think. It's almost like a the movie itself is almost like a Trojan horse because it's kind of an anti-war movie >> Correct.

[00:17:32]>> built inside of a war movie.

[00:17:34]>> I thought the same thing. Um that yes, like this the Odyssey is the Trojan horse. The story of the Odyssey brings you in. He's trying to make a statement on humanity as a whole right now where everyone hates each other. And you know, people are just doing terrible things to each other. And the overall message of the film is like be better. Just be nice and better to people. Correct. That is the message of the film, but he's bringing you in with this 3,000-year-old IP and using it to frame that whole story. And I found that fascinating because it's it's this weird adaptation thing where no, it's not the intention of Homer to tell that story. But he does faithfully execute a lot of the story that Homer put forth and then recontextualizes it through a different lens. And so it's it's both honoring the source material and deviating from it at the same time.

[00:18:29]I just found it really interesting.

[00:18:31]>> Yeah. It it's almost like the the most recent person in the game of telephone that you talked about.

[00:18:37]>> Yeah. Uh-huh.

[00:18:38]>> That's that's all all it is. And and there will be I I genuinely feel this way. I think this will be a generational type film where people show this to their kids or it's shown to kids in school or history class or whatever. Um and it'll just be the next version of how the Odyssey story is told.

[00:18:57]>> Yeah, there there's no coincidence that Travis Scott is the bard in the first scene of the film. He's the first speaking spoken line of the film. Uh because it's hey, this is a new retelling in the year 2026 of this age-old story.

[00:19:13]>> Yep.

[00:19:13]>> Uh and he wants you to know that right away.

[00:19:16]>> Yeah.

[00:19:17]>> But I I think there are it is a lot to take in. It is >> Yes, it's really long.

[00:19:25]>> and you know, for a movie that we always say this on this channel that there's three-hour movies that feel very short and there's short movies that feel very long.

[00:19:33]I thought this one actually I felt its length a little bit. It it did drag just a hair for me.

[00:19:40]But I don't know how you could do it almost any other way.

[00:19:43]>> I I feel like I I'm with you, but I also feel like it needed like another 20 minutes.

[00:19:51]>> Yeah.

[00:19:51]>> Either he needed to find a way to be more economical about some of it, which it feels like how could you? Cuz so much of it is so important.

[00:20:00]>> Yeah.

[00:20:00]>> But at the same time it needed more it almost I honestly feel like it could have been if he would have done the Iliad and the Odyssey as two separate movies. Yeah, maybe that would have made it a little easier. Uh but you know, when these movies cost $250 million to make and they film on all seven continents and you know, it's just like it's just completely bananas. I don't know if they could even make two of these cuz it seems like it was a pretty a pretty tough movie to make. But um how did you feel about the performances in the film?

[00:20:31]>> I think I would go with uneven. Um I some of them I loved. I thought Anne Hathaway was fantastic >> Really throughout the whole film.

[00:20:38]>> Really, really good. Robert Pattinson was great. Um I wish he'd have been a little bit more weird.

[00:20:43]>> Um well, that'll happen in Dune part two.

[00:20:46]>> Just wait a couple months. He can play weird very well. I wish he'd have been a little bit more weird.

[00:20:51]Um Tom Holland to me was fine. He was just okay.

[00:20:56]>> I didn't even feel that way. I thought he was not good.

[00:20:58]>> Really? Okay.

[00:20:59]>> So, let me let me rephrase that cuz I don't want to be mean.

[00:21:02]Uh I thought he He an admirable performance, but he was surrounded by titans correct of the art, right? And it was clear that he was like I hate to say this because I'm a big fan of all this stuff, it felt like he was the Marvel kid that was plucked into something like this.

[00:21:21]>> Yeah, but >> I think it was good for him to get this type of exposure and be on this type of film set because he will become better because of this.

[00:21:31]Um and I don't think he was like bad in the movie. Uh I I also especially thought he really looked the part.

[00:21:38]>> He did look the part.

[00:21:39]>> a boy on the verge of manhood, I like he has that face and that look and everything for it. Um it's just when he's in those scenes with Matt Damon and Anne Hathaway, they're just they're acting circles around him. And it's not his fault, they're just really good at what they do.

[00:21:52]>> Yeah. Well, it's very funny because there's a clip from the press tour where he says like, "I thought they'd try to call Timothy Chalamet instead of me."

[00:21:58]But like if Timothy Chalamet had been in that role, I think he would've been absolutely perfect.

[00:22:02]>> He's too skinny.

[00:22:03]>> But Yeah, probably.

[00:22:07]But >> No, I I think Matt Damon was good. The other performance that like was just kind of nothing for me was Charlize Theron. She was just fine.

[00:22:16]Didn't do much.

[00:22:18]>> And I think that's because of the book deviations. Like >> Yeah.

[00:22:21]>> In the in the book, she is made out to be much more cruel to Odysseus and he's almost kind of like a sex slave to her >> Right.

[00:22:28]>> in the in the source material. And in this, she's just kind of like, "We had a really great thing, man."

[00:22:34]>> Yeah.

[00:22:35]>> I guess if you want to go then it's fine.

[00:22:39]>> That was a little a little weird, but um yeah, I feel the same way there. I thought John Leguizamo was great.

[00:22:45]>> Yep.

[00:22:45]>> Uh I thought that Himesh Patel as Eurylocus was was very good as well. Uh and Samantha Morton as Circe, >> She was great.

[00:22:54]>> completely stole the movie for 20 minutes and then and then gave it back.

[00:22:57]So, >> She was great. Um Elliot Page, it's funny because I find Elliot Page in the Hades scene very compelling. Out of outside of the Hades scene, not compelling at all.

[00:23:10]It's weird. Like the performance was dual for me because I felt like it was really, really perfect in that that speech about the revenge and taking it back to the other guy. It's Robert Pattinson. I'm not going to mess up the character names.

[00:23:25]Um but then in all of the scenes where it was like him talking to Matt Damon like before the Trojan horse thing, I was like, "This is a very flat performance."

[00:23:35]>> Mhm.

[00:23:36]>> Uh so it was I don't know. Um just used up all his energy on the Hades scene.

[00:23:40]>> I I thought this was the funniest use of Benny Safdie that I've ever seen.

[00:23:46]Because I don't even think I saw his full face at any point in the film. And he wears this giant Agamemnon helmet with the mohawk and the giant golden spine coming down the back of it. And he he just looks so tall.

[00:24:01]And then you hear him talk and it's just Benny Safdie's voice.

[00:24:05]>> Until someone builds a bigger horse.

[00:24:07]>> And then he gets he gets got. But But yeah, I mean I I felt like when is the next time you're going to see a cast that's this loaded?

[00:24:16]>> No, it's only Nolan that can do this at this point.

[00:24:20]>> One of my fears going into the movie was going to be okay, well, Spider-Man is trying to stop Batman from marrying Catwoman and then Jason Bourne's going to come home and kill them all.

[00:24:31]But you know what? I I just like gave into it. I bought into all of it, man. I and that is a testament because Matt Damon is a very recognizable person.

[00:24:41]>> Yeah.

[00:24:42]I thought the same thing. I was like, "I've seen Matt Damon in a million things." But like at some point he just kind of became Odysseus for me. And like I just forgot it was Matt Damon on screen. Which that's probably the biggest compliment. I don't think his performance was like over the top spectacular, but the fact that he could get out of his own way and how recognizable he is is a feat in and of itself.

[00:25:05]>> Yeah, I I agree. And it's just it's cool to see that many movie stars working together on such a a massive thing. And so speaking of massive things we got to talk about like the technical side of this.

[00:25:17]>> Yeah.

[00:25:17]>> Cuz oh my god.

[00:25:19]>> But we both saw in 70 mm.

[00:25:21]>> We did.

[00:25:21]>> By the way, we did not see it in IMAX. I will see it in IMAX tomorrow, full 1.43 aspect ratio. We're going to have a another video about the different formats because Corey is also seeing it in Dolby Cinema on Sunday. So we'll have seen 70 mm, Dolby Cinema, and IMAX.

[00:25:38]>> Uh dual laser. And so we'll have a lot of experience in the different formats.

[00:25:43]Um I thought the whole time I just wished I was watching it on the 1.43 screen, which I will tomorrow.

[00:25:50]>> I can't wait.

[00:25:51]>> like a lot of those epic shots with the scale are just going to be even more massive. Everything in Troy is is going to be incredible.

[00:26:00]>> Dude.

[00:26:01]>> Uh in full aspect ratio.

[00:26:03]>> The the staging and the way the character moved with all of those people during the sacking of Troy and the fire and that scene when the gates open and Agamemnon's just standing there and all the people just bum rush in.

[00:26:18]Like that's what you go to the movies for, man.

[00:26:20]>> Yeah, absolutely.

[00:26:21]>> I had chills at multiple points throughout this film.

[00:26:26]>> Yeah.

[00:26:26]>> And and most of it was the just the pure spectacle.

[00:26:30]>> Mhm.

[00:26:31]>> Like >> Yeah.

[00:26:32]>> Uh when when the Cyclops is chasing them back to the ship.

[00:26:37]It's like my god, this is so good.

[00:26:40]>> Yeah.

[00:26:41]>> Uh when when the six-headed monster attacks their ship after they barely get past the whirlpool.

[00:26:49]When when Circe's turning the men into pigs, I don't even know how they did that practically. All the camera trickery they did.

[00:26:57]I was talking to my lady about it and I was like it's not often in today's day and age that you see something in a movie where you go I've never seen that before.

[00:27:08]>> Yes.

[00:27:08]>> And that was one of those types of scenes. I thought that was really cool.

[00:27:11]>> I thought the Cyclops, too, was sort of like a throwback to like the days.

[00:27:16]>> Where it's like just just big puppet monster thing and it was just grotesque.

[00:27:21]And I I loved seeing that stuff on screen because as you said, like we don't see at at this point, like you can just CGI anything and so like nothing impresses me anymore about visual effects. And then they're like and I think this is why Nolan wanted to do it practically because he's like that will impress a lot more people than just throwing a CGI Cyclops in there.

[00:27:43]>> Yep. A CGI Cyclops would have taken me straight out of it.

[00:27:46]>> Yep. Yep.

[00:27:47]>> Because you would be like >> Yep.

[00:27:50]>> That's not there.

[00:27:51]>> would border on like goofy at that point. And it did at times. Just a little bit. Just a little bit. I was like, oh, this is kind of silly. But you you kind of got to go with it cuz it plays it so straight.

[00:28:00]>> Yeah. Um I thought So, there were a lot of scenes that felt incredibly immersive. But the one that got me the most was when the big lightning storm happens where it separates Odysseus from the rest of his men.

[00:28:17]>> Yeah.

[00:28:18]>> I felt like we were on that boat with them. And the lightning, the rain, the the the the audio was so loud with the thunder during all of that. It that that is all There's watching movies as like you're watching a movie and then there's watching a movie as an experience.

[00:28:37]>> Mhm.

[00:28:37]>> And a lot of this movie it's like experience then story, then experience then story. And it kind of ping-pongs back and forth between those.

[00:28:46]And every time it gets to one of those experiences, I I'm just I was just sitting there going, "How?"

[00:28:52]>> Yeah.

[00:28:53]>> How did they >> It's like watching, you know, a classic Spielberg film at some point where it's like Spielberg's known for his big set pieces, except it's like 20 of them in one movie.

[00:29:03]>> In 3 hours.

[00:29:04]>> yeah. I will say the one that I think they could have probably cut was the one with the the big giants in the forest. I think that one was the least compelling to me. They could have probably cut that and the movie would have gone on just fine.

[00:29:18]>> Yeah, I mean this because nothing really happened.

[00:29:21]They got off the boat, they saw these giant people, and they were like, "Well, we got to go back cuz this is not a good place for us to stay."

[00:29:27]>> men, but like you could have done it in other ways. I I think you could have written around that and maybe used some of that space for a little bit more story, fleshing out the characters, or make the movie shorter if you don't want to do that, too. And, you know, but I know that it's cuz did that I haven't read the book in a long time. Did that one also happen in the book?

[00:29:46]>> Yeah.

[00:29:46]>> Okay. So, I mean I get that you want to be very faithful to the source material, but like sometimes you got to cut stuff that's just not relevant or compelling.

[00:29:55]>> Yeah, and those people are cannibals in the book.

[00:29:58]>> Yeah.

[00:29:59]>> They eat people. So, the Cyclops eats people, the six-headed beast eats people, and the Laestrygonians, which I think is what they're called, they they also eat people. So, a lot of people eating. And and I'm sure that the bacon that was in Circe's stew was probably a person because >> he shoots that deer and then when it dies it turns into a person. And that's the the tell, which I thought was was pretty cool. Uh the black sand beach stuff when they did Hades, awesome. Unbelievable.

[00:30:27]>> When he was on the boat and he was illuminated by the fire looking back at all of his men that he failed, loved that. That was my part. Yes.

[00:30:37]>> Yeah, I I think I I I know what else is going to even try to come close, but I think Hoyte van Hoytema probably has the best cinematography Oscar already in his cabinet.

[00:30:48]They probably just like gave it to him and said you're you're good. You don't even have to come to the ceremony. Like it's it's over.

[00:30:53]>> Yeah, there were a number of just very phenomenal shots in that film that will stick with me for a while. Uh what did you think about Ludwig?

[00:31:03]>> I thought it was so interesting.

[00:31:06]>> I agree.

[00:31:08]>> I so >> I thought I would love it more.

[00:31:11]>> Well, I think I need more time with it.

[00:31:13]>> I That's probably true.

[00:31:14]>> that out because I was so overwhelmed by everything else >> Mhm.

[00:31:18]>> that I I I want to listen to it when it comes out on streaming >> Yeah.

[00:31:24]>> right? Um there there is the musical cue every time he fired or he plucked the bow of the the bow and arrow and the music sync synced up with it. I thought that was awesome.

[00:31:36]>> Funny story about that. My screening, I noticed it right away.

[00:31:40]>> The first time >> was just a hair off from the picture.

[00:31:44]>> And so every time that happened, it was like just a hair off. I was like, "Damn it."

[00:31:49]>> The joys of seeing something off on film, right?

[00:31:51]>> Correct.

[00:31:51]>> Yep.

[00:31:52]Uh I thought that was cool. Uh they did some stuff with percussion particularly during the sacking of Troy where everything is going to get real nerdy.

[00:32:05]Um the musical term is an accelerando where something starts slow and it just very slowly gets much much faster.

[00:32:13]It it was like a like your heart rate was just pounding as they're as they're making their way through there. Uh I thought all that was really interesting.

[00:32:20]Um the music when they got to Hades Ludwig sprinkled in a little bit of his more modern electronics kind of vibe to it and I thought that was so cool. Um honestly, there was there was so much stuff. I feel like I need to see it again a few more times to really like wrap my head around all of it.

[00:32:38]>> Yeah, it's there again, it throws so much at you and I I agree this is but there was no there was no big like can you hear the music >> No, there wasn't.

[00:32:48]>> in here which Nolan is kind of known for those big like musical cues with the montages and everything. So I expected maybe a little bit more of that. Uh but he shows a little bit more restraint here um which is interesting. I don't know. I I expected Ludwig to do his big bombastic almost like Hans Zimmer used to do with Nolan and it was a little bit more subdued than that.

[00:33:11]>> So I watched one of the featurettes a couple weeks ago about the music and Ludwig said that when Nolan approached him about this he said the first instruction he gave was don't think about an orchestra.

[00:33:25]So Ludwig he put together a lot of pieces of bronze cuz it's the Bronze Age and he used those as some of the percussive instruments and then there were two different instruments that were period specific to all the way back then that they had to go off like paintings of what the instruments were and they tried to recreate them.

[00:33:49]>> Got you.

[00:33:49]>> And and one of them was a was like a lyre and then the other one it's it's almost like a double-handed oboe. It's a reed instrument and the reeds that you would use for something like that literally don't exist anymore. So they had to like fashion reeds from either an oboe or English horn or bassoon or something and they had to do like a ton of experimenting to get the sound that they were looking for.

[00:34:12]And I thought it really worked because the movie is a very it's primitive, right? We're we're way back in in the day before any of this stuff that we have now existed and it's almost like if it was a full sweeping orchestra it maybe wouldn't have made as much sense for the the type of movie they were making.

[00:34:31]>> Yeah.

[00:34:32]All right, so my last question for you.

[00:34:34]>> for all of that music and >> No, no, that's good. This is your This is you as an asset cuz I don't know any of that >> Not often, every once in a while I'm I'm here for a reason.

[00:34:43]>> Yeah, so my my other question for you and this might take more time for you to digest it, but where would you rank this among Chris Nolan's filmography?

[00:34:55]You don't have to say the exact number.

[00:34:57]I like top third, middle third, bottom third.

[00:35:01]>> I I need to look at it. I I I made a list on my Letterboxd of of his movies.

[00:35:08]>> I My opinion on it is I would put it probably the near the top of the middle third.

[00:35:18]>> Hmm.

[00:35:20]>> Like I don't think it is absolute peak Nolan.

[00:35:23]It is very It's not bad by any means.

[00:35:26]Very good, but just a hair off from from the highs.

[00:35:30]>> So, I rewatched almost all of his stuff.

[00:35:34]Uh the only one I haven't rewatched yet is is Oppenheimer um cuz I didn't have time. Um but my rankings before rewatching were different than they are now.

[00:35:46]I had Interstellar like halfway through the list and after watching it on the 4K disc with the IMAX scenes and it it it catapulted all the way up to number two.

[00:35:56]I I have Oppenheimer at one, Interstellar at two, Prestige at three, Dark Knight at four, and then and then the rest.

[00:36:04]Um >> That sounds about right. I think I would put those four as his top four and then The Odyssey ranks below those.

[00:36:12]>> I'm inclined to agree with you, but I also need to see it in the other formats before making that decision.

[00:36:18]>> I saw Interstellar in 1.43 aspect ratio several years ago like long after I first saw it and I was like that really improved the experience for me.

[00:36:28]>> Yeah. So, I I'm you're seeing it in 143 this weekend. I'm seeing it in 143 a week from now.

[00:36:34]Uh so, I think I I'm going to reserve my ranking un- until then.

[00:36:40]>> Okay. But >> All right.

[00:36:41]>> I mean, it's hard to get into the top tier of his stuff cuz that >> Yeah.

[00:36:45]>> those movies are really good.

[00:36:46]>> Yeah. I I will say the first time I saw Oppenheimer I was a little bit like I liked it but I didn't think it was the masterpiece everyone was saying it was. And then the second time I saw it, it catapulted to number one of his entire filmography for me.

[00:37:01]>> So, my question for you there is was that because going into Oppenheimer the first time you thought the climax was going to be the Trinity test?

[00:37:11]>> Correct.

[00:37:12]>> Okay. And then there's that whole other hour of courtroom drama after it.

[00:37:15]>> Yes. It It feels like a let- It feels like a letdown the first time, but then when you just go with it the second time, it's like, now this makes so much more sense.

[00:37:23]>> Cuz I think the last hour of that movie is incredible.

[00:37:26]>> It's the best part of the film.

[00:37:27]>> Yeah.

[00:37:28]>> And I think that's the difference is the first time you're watching it, you think this is a movie about building the atomic bomb. And the second time you watch it, you realize it's a movie about why you shouldn't have built the atomic bomb.

[00:37:39]And all of the consequences of that. And that's why the second viewing for me worked a whole lot better. And I wonder if this will go similarly because the movie morphs into this message on all of these things these horrible things happening to Odysseus are an atonement for his sins, not like, ah, happens, like a series of unfortunate events.

[00:38:01]>> Right. Right. Right. Right.

[00:38:02]Yeah. He honestly, he even tries to steer away from all of that. Once he knows like his people's fate >> Yeah.

[00:38:10]>> he's like, no, we don't need to go that way cuz the monster's going to get us.

[00:38:13]And then the monster gets them. And he's like, you don't want to go to that island because you're going to eat the cows and then Zeus is going to kill you all. And then all All Like he he knows. It's not like this stuff happens on accident. Yeah. He knows that like the hubris of man will eventually bite them in the butt and he tries to stop it. He even puts the wax in their ears when he goes by the sirens cuz he's like, "I'm the only one that can withstand this and all that."

[00:38:38]And uh Yeah, it feels a lot like in Atonement.

[00:38:42]I think you're right.

[00:38:43]>> Yeah, and and I thought it was also very interesting that in the beginning he is not telling people what their fate will be because he knows that things need to go according to plan. Yeah. And then in the end he is telling people and it still happens the exact same way. And I find that fascinating as well. It's It's like you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[00:39:04]>> And characters can change and grow throughout the course of a movie. What a concept.

[00:39:09]>> Yeah.

[00:39:09]>> Wild stuff.

[00:39:10]>> Yeah. For me the the peak of the whole film is when he's talking to Penelope through the screen and you get the flashback to Troy. All of that I was That's like chill down your spine. Yeah.

[00:39:20]The third act >> crazy. Wild third act.

[00:39:24]Especially when he goes Jason Bourne and just demolishes all the suitors on his own. That's just I I feel like we could talk for another 30 minutes about this, but >> I I need cutaways during that whole ending sequence of the guy just being like, "Jesus Christ, that's Jason Bourne."

[00:39:40]>> Well, he kind of is, right? Because he has amnesia and he's when he's with Calypso.

[00:39:45]>> That is true.

[00:39:46]>> helps him remember and then he goes on a killing spree. I mean >> That's true.

[00:39:50]>> Matt Damon was born to play this part, guys.

[00:39:52]>> He was born born to play this part? Hey.

[00:39:57]>> Oh, if the drum set was was closer I would tap on it there. Man, uh do you have any other thoughts before we uh >> I have so many more, but we've already gone 40 minutes so we can probably probably end it here.

[00:40:10]>> Yeah, I think this might be the longest video we've done in a minute, but >> uh Overall, do not wait for this movie to come out on a streaming service.

[00:40:20]>> no.

[00:40:20]>> Go see it. Go see it on the best format that you can, whether that's whatever is available to you, whatever you can afford. What it don't don't don't buy a Starbucks latte and use that 12 bucks and go see an afternoon matinee of this film. Just make sure you see it in the theater because these movies are built to be seen in movie theaters, not on your television, not on your iPad, not on your phone, not while you're on the toilet. No, go see it in a movie theater.

[00:40:46]Um we're going to have another video where we talk about all the formats once we've seen them in all of those different formats, so uh be on the lookout for that.

[00:40:55]Like this video if you liked it.

[00:40:56]Subscribe to the channel if you haven't already.

[00:40:58]Please, please, please drop a comment below. Let us know if you've seen the movie, what you thought of it, uh what your thoughts are on all the supposed controversy surrounding it. Um we'll answer every comment that comes through.

[00:41:11]Check out the older videos.

[00:41:13]We're we're going to talk about the other movie coming out this month that has Jon Bernthal and Tom Holland in it in a couple weeks, which is Spider-Man Brand New Day. Um but that's for another day and time, so be on the lookout for all of those things and so much more.

[00:41:24]Until next time, see you guys in the next video.