Strangest Crash Out Ever

Added: 2026-06-02

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[00:00:46]In the sense that if God is the big bang and creation can both be true in the sense that God is a magical being and can do literally anything. But that's I just find that to be epistemically worthless. Um uh it has no explanatory power and according to Hitchens razor that which can be asserted without evidence can be dismissed without evidence. So if you want to I mean if you want to tell me >> I agree with Hitchens Razer. No no no I agree with Hitchens Razer. I trust me what I'm saying is do you have any difference between you and a monkey?

[00:01:26]>> Do I have any difference between a monkey and myself? Uh monkeys have tails. I apes don't have tails.

[00:01:34]>> I'm not I'm not talking about physical.

[00:01:36]I'm talking about mental. Do you mentally have a difference between a monkey and yourself? Yeah, we we use complex language and have a much more complex uh theory of mind that >> Yep.

[00:01:50]>> monkeys just clearly uh don't have.

[00:01:54]>> I agree. Are there any other animals on the planet Earth that have that?

[00:02:02]>> Um yeah, there's there's a really strong case.

[00:02:05]>> Yeah, you can say dolphins. You can say dolphins. Can they talk?

[00:02:07]>> I Man, I didn't say anything. Just let me uh uh yes uh uh vervet monkeys have I wish I could remember the details a a little bit better. Uh I just read a book about the evolution of language actually. So there are vervet monkeys that have specifically distinct calls for different kinds of predators.

[00:02:30]>> Um but they but they don't put they don't put their calls together in a in a grammatical type of structure. Now, there's a really good YouTuber, uh, she's a PhD candidate, uh, primatologist. Her name, her YouTube channel is called Gutsick Gibbon. She has a video that came out a couple months ago about, uh, >> uh, where we think we're now starting to see elements of grammar in it might have been the Vervet monkeys. Like, it's it's a more it's a more up-to-date study. I I don't remember exactly. I don't remember the details. I'm just if you want to take a deeper look into it, take a look at that.

[00:03:07]>> Oh, I would love to. I was just, you know, I'm not I'm not try I'm not on here to be combative. I'm on here to learn.

[00:03:13]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, um and then with respect to like chimpanzees, there are [ __ ] I'm going to have to go reread uh part of that book um because it was really interesting book. I just can't remember specifically what the what the data shows. I I do know that the author really doesn't think that there's anything like true grammar going on in in any other species.

[00:03:39]Um but there are like there are elements of it like there are you there are species that add syntax to um to vocalizations they produce. Right.

[00:03:51]But it's a very rudimentary form.

[00:03:53]>> Yes. Now >> yes. No, I I've I've done some reading on this too.

[00:03:59]What I'm saying is I disagree with your evolution plus big bang being the fact because I believe that you cannot create humans without a soul.

[00:04:16]Right? You have a soul. I have a soul.

[00:04:19]And >> you create a chicken. There's no >> You create a chicken without a soul.

[00:04:25]>> A chicken has a mortal soul.

[00:04:29]What does that mean?

[00:04:29]>> Humans have an immortal soul.

[00:04:31]>> What does that mean?

[00:04:32]>> Immortal soul means your soul dies when you die, which is animals.

[00:04:36]>> Okay, but what's a soul?

[00:04:37]>> Humans have an immortal soul.

[00:04:41]>> Okay. Well, what is a soul?

[00:04:42]>> So, they go to heaven or hell.

[00:04:45]>> No, I'm asking.

[00:04:45]>> What's a soul?

[00:04:46]>> Yeah.

[00:04:48]>> What's a soul?

[00:04:50]>> I have no idea. I' Nobody's ever been able to tell me either.

[00:04:54]>> Hey, can you talk to me?

[00:04:56]>> I am. Are you cognizant?

[00:04:59]>> Yeah, barely.

[00:05:01]>> Soul.

[00:05:03]>> Yeah. Me, too.

[00:05:03]>> Okay. Well, that's that's that's no different than than me saying >> that is that is a soul. I'm not saying that it's a mortal or immortal.

[00:05:13]>> Let me let me get out what I'm talking about.

[00:05:15]>> There's a person behind your eyes.

[00:05:17]That's no different than if souls don't exist and we're just simply biological organisms that have the ability to interact and respond to our environment.

[00:05:30]>> Okay. Well, you can say there's no difference other than the fact that why are you breathing right now?

[00:05:38]>> Why don't you shoot yourself?

[00:05:40]>> Because that's a function of biological organisms.

[00:05:44]>> Goats breathe.

[00:05:45]>> I I understand. But do you think that >> you cut out a after you said do I think I didn't hear anything?

[00:05:58]>> I'm very sorry about that. Do you think suicide is a moral right or a moral wrong?

[00:06:04]>> What the [ __ ] Um, it depends.

[00:06:08]>> I'm just asking. I If you can't answer it, then >> that is my answer. Cut me out. But >> it depends. It depends.

[00:06:18]>> Yes, that's my answer.

[00:06:21]>> I can't I honestly cannot.

[00:06:27]>> It depends. So, sometimes suicide's right.

[00:06:30]>> If if you were a a a terminal >> Say that. Say that on stream.

[00:06:34]>> I I'm going to make you admit it. If you were on stream, sometimes suicide's right.

[00:06:38]>> I'm going to make you admit it. If you were a >> You obviously don't believe it. If you were a terminal cancer burn patient and you had uh and you had no health insurance, would you rather live the last 6 months of your life in absolute horrendous agony or just choose to die with some dignity by taking your own life? I would rather I would rather have the right to live with my family and say goodbye to my family before >> Would you do you think it would be do you think it would be morally wrong for that person to choose to end their own life or die naturally in an absolutely horrendous and miserable state?

[00:07:20]>> So you say that you say that >> answer the question. Granted, I do think that it's it I do think that it's right for that person to die a natural death, >> but >> I didn't I didn't say Yeah, I don't think it would be immoral for them to decide the other way. I'm asking you if it would be wrong for them to choose to end their life on their own terms in a to have an an unnatural death. Okay.

[00:07:45]Well, then you think, >> well, so I'm it is okay.

[00:07:50]So, I'm a person that suffers from depression.

[00:07:54]I'm an alcoholic. I'm an AA.

[00:07:57]I've had those thoughts.

[00:08:00]Do you think it would have been right for me to put a bullet in my head? Or do you think it's right for me to continue on and >> beat that, beat that, or not? Maybe not even beat that, but die from it, but have that opportunity to be get right with God.

[00:08:18]Do you think that's wrong? No, it's not it's not wrong to choose not to.

[00:08:24]>> But but you think it's okay to kill yourself.

[00:08:26]>> It depends. For the millionth time.

[00:08:29]Well, look, we're going to have to stop doing this cuz my live has been flagged twice now, unfortunately.

[00:08:37]>> I hope it gets flagged a third time, you [ __ ] [ __ ] >> What the f What is wrong with you? What the hell?

[00:08:47]What was that guy's deal?

[00:08:52]What the [ __ ] What the actual [ __ ] Uh, but yes, the Big Bang is an extremely well attested and proven scientific idea. It's a scientific theory.

[00:09:04]>> But it's it's not it's not 100% proven.

[00:09:07]>> Nothing in science is ever 100% proven.

[00:09:11]uh in principle any scientific idea can be overturned but nobody nobody doesn't think that science is our best way of increasing knowledge about the natural world all science does is prove things and add to our knowledge >> right no I agree with that but I I I wouldn't say that you can just say creation is fiction >> um well what I specifically usually mean by that is like young earth creationism.

[00:09:42]Uh that is an idea as stupid as thinking the earth is flat. But I don't think there's any good reason to think that uh like some theists they believe, you know, in the big bang, they believe in evolution, too. They just think that God is the reason it happened. And I don't think they have any reason for thinking that at all.

[00:10:03]>> Right. I guess it I mean it really comes down to what you believe in. There's really no fact or fiction when it comes to creation, right?

[00:10:11]>> Uh I mean, I don't necessarily think that that's a tenable position if you >> So, >> well, cuz you can believe in a in a literal contradiction and then it's like, well, you don't get to tell me my opinion is wrong. Yes, I do. I can't tell you you're wrong for having an opinion, but I can tell you 100% your opinion is absolutely dog water.

[00:10:33]>> But nothing's Well, that depends.

[00:10:35]Nothing's 100%. Like you said, even science.

[00:10:40]>> Uh yeah, but a contradiction can't be true.

[00:10:43]>> Both both sides of a contradiction or whatever can't be true, >> right? But >> do you think there's So you you believe there's no percent that God created anything. You don't believe in God, I assume. Right.

[00:10:56]>> I don't believe in God. Um but I'm agnostic. Uh there might be a God out there. I don't think it's knowable. Uh is the problem. So, I I don't think that I don't think that there's any epistemic weight that you can give to any uh claim about the supernatural and magic because we have no idea how those things work or if they exist or how to test them.

[00:11:22]>> I So like what I guess I guess when it comes to creation, I just hold on to or believe in that something that's my biggest thing. Something can't come from nothing. So when it comes >> Don't you think that's how God made the universe out of nothing?

[00:11:38]>> Well, I think I think God is like he's he was always there if that makes sense.

[00:11:47]>> Yeah, but I'm talking about the universe. Uh unless you think the universe is God's toenail clippings. It came from nothing.

[00:11:54]>> Well, I believe God created the universe.

[00:11:56]>> Yeah. Out of nothing.

[00:11:58]>> Right. Well, just so you think something can come from nothing, but >> God was always there. He's not There's You can't explain God.

[00:12:07]>> I I know that that's the problem I have with people thinking they have a good reason to believe God did something. Uh how did it happen? I have no idea. If you want to just say if you want to just say, "Look, I I don't think the universe uh can come from nothing." Okay? Neither do I. But I don't think the universe is created. If you're going to say, "Well, the universe has to be a created thing and so therefore it came from God." And God just means we don't know where the universe came from, therefore it was God. And it's like, well, okay. I don't think we're being super honest or rigorous. Uh, but whatever. I mean people philosophers like it I used to be a lot more cynical about this and then I calmed down uh when I started reading about the history of science because ancient like uh philosophers and protocientists you know they would come up with explanations for things they would say well there has to be a blank that is responsible for blank and I always thought that that was just so stupid of them but then but then I realized like a realworld example where that did happen and then later was uh proven to be the case uh and that's with Darwin and heredity. So you know Darwin famously comes up with the theory of evolution by natural selection and in the theory he he what what >> I was just agreeing I was agreeing with you.

[00:13:39]>> Okay, cool. Um I haven't told you the full thing yet though. So he comes up with the theory of evolution by natural selection and he he says a bunch of things that are true like well the the thing that causes organisms to be different is some sort of intrinsic quality that they have. It's probably going to be a chemical or a part of them because the differences are heret are uh heritable. So they can be passed on. So there must be a molecule or something within organisms that they pass on. That was just that seemed kind of obvious that that has to be the case, but nobody knew what it was. And so Darwin said it must be Gia Coles. He came up with this odd idea of this stuff that floats in the blood. And that doesn't exist, it turns out. But he was right that there has to be something uh that's doing that. Um and so he posited something and it just turned out that he was wrong about specifically what it was. Well, ancient philosophers, you know, when they made these arguments from motion, um, and I I don't know, certain other kinds of arguments like the soul, uh, there has to be a soul within us. And what they really meant by that was like, well, look, there has to be something that's responsible for this or that characteristic.

[00:15:01]And, you know, they lived at a time where we just knew so little about the world. And so the ideas they came up with were overwhelmingly wrong. But that's because that was the first guess.

[00:15:14]Darwin was wrong, too. And so I've become a lot less cynical of that over time. Cuz in the past I used to be like, why why did they think X, Y, or Z? That seems so stupid to me. But anyways, so this whole I I got on this big tangent because it's like look, if you're a creationist uh just because you think there are questions about like nature or the universe that so far can't be answered.

[00:15:39]And so I think there's something behind it and I think God does that somehow.

[00:15:45]And it's like, well, I get the sentiment actually, like I I would never hold the specific sentiment that you that you do, but I get the I get the urge or the motivation or whatever. What I what I hate and what I don't appreciate is when people say science is uh wrong because my book says so. And it's like, okay, well, go [ __ ] yourself with that take, >> right? I don't believe that, >> right? I didn't think that you did. So, >> yeah. No, I I guess, you know, I just came across your page and you're you're live and I I don't know. I don't really know anything about you, but I saw that and I just wanted to kind of, you know, delve into that a little bit, but >> the creation aspect and I think you said it earlier, you said uh you disagree with the like did you say like something new age creation where is that the thing? Is that where you say you disagree with like the earth started like 2,000 years ago or something?

[00:16:43]>> 6,000. Yeah. Young earth creationism.

[00:16:46]>> Well, no, I don't agree with that.

[00:16:47]>> It's it's been I mean, the idea of the earth only being that old uh is I mean that's an ancient idea. That's what the Jews think. Uh but it was never really taken very seriously in Christianity, funny enough, until after evolution and this uh the mass popularization of uh evolution and then uh secularism, post-enlightenment and um uh what do you call it like this agnostic school uh that started with Huxley when the original idea behind uh agnosticism is kind of It's essentially naturalism. It's kind of like look the only ideas that we actually find to be valuable are ideas that are uh you know testable at least in principle. That's kind of the new modern philosophy of science. Um and then there was a lot of textual criticism of the Bible that started like in the 17 and 1800s in Germany. Uh where then the inherency of the Bible was called into question. And there was all this talk of look maybe a lot of these are just stories and parables. There wasn't actually a flood um and all this other stuff. And so the combination of all that uh really made a lot of Christians uh especially Protestant denominations kind of start to [ __ ] their pants. And in reaction they dug in their heels and became extremely um oh what's the word? um they kind of dug in their heels and became more literal.

[00:18:22]I guess uh the the idea was well I not only now do we have to defend the Bible but we have to or defend the faith but now we have to defend the Bible. And so biblical literalism really became kind of a a a much more popular thing starting then in Christianity.

[00:18:42]>> Right. Right. I guess another another question I have like kind of piggybacking off what you just said.

[00:18:51]So, well maybe it's not piggybacking, it could be a little bit of a subject change, but you being agnostic, I guess.

[00:18:58]Where do you think people get their like morality from?

[00:19:02]>> Uh reason.

[00:19:04]>> Reason.

[00:19:05]>> Yeah, essentially reason. And uh so if you look at I mean even if you look at religious uh moral codes uh some religious moral codes have to uh some of them have a lot of rules about uh taboss like what you are and are not allowed to do that seem to be more about paying respect to the creator, right?

[00:19:32]Like what the hell is immoral about working on the Sabbath or not working?

[00:19:38]Yeah. What's immoral about picking up sticks on the Sabbath? Literally nothing except God say so. Right. Um ideas like that. Drawing graven images. Uh worshiping other gods. There there's nothing you can point to that makes any of those wrong except for uh the guy that could kill you in an instant says don't do it, so you should probably listen. Well, that's coercion, not morality. Uh, not that's not a legit morality, I wouldn't say. Uh, the others like, uh, don't lie, don't steal, don't cheat, um, don't commit murder, stuff like that. Well, all of that maps on to human moral intuitions that are universal across all cultures and all of time. There's never been a society that said those things are normal and fine, >> right? Um, >> and so yeah, I think it Oh, [ __ ] I just pushed the wrong button. Um, I think it just maps on to Oh, and sorry, I didn't make the full point there. So, what do all those things have in common? Those are things that if you didn't believe in God would be really good ideas to believe in from the standpoint of your own welfare, right? Um, so if a human being is interested like why do we come up with morality? it it's to thrive as a as a group. Um, and so quite a lot of that those uh moral rules for thriving have to do with our well-being like cleanliness, rituals, um, taboss around incest, what you are and are not allowed to eat. Um, and then behaviors like cheating and stealing and and violence and [ __ ] like that, right? So it's just it's like a onetoone correlation with respon with respect to those things and then the other stuff with you know uh also like worship our god it's like well uh you can actually make a pretty it's not very hard to come up with a naturalistic explanation for that which is if you have group cohesion like people all buying into an idea uh then the group tends to have more cohesion and the group cooperates better and the group is stronger. This is exactly what happens with uh a this is exactly why corporations do um >> do uh company retreats. It's exactly why political parties do what they do. It's exactly why sports teams sell merchandise, you know. So, >> I get that. It's like it's it's anything works best when everyone buys in.

[00:22:18]>> Yes. That it's that kind of idea. Yeah.

[00:22:21]>> Right. But I guess so when you were you you earlier said uh talking about human intuition, I just where does that human intuition come from? I guess >> so that's >> well I would just say reason again if you ask me where reason comes from. It's like well we we use our brains. That's just literally how that's literally how >> being being an organism with a nervous system works. That's why that's what I that's why I choose I guess choose to believe in God because you know like our intuition comes from reason our reason comes from something and our and that's and I choose to hold on to you know something you know I was raised Catholic but I don't practice as much anymore but I've become more I guess religious in my older years and that those those things those things that I've mentioned kind of I hold on to I guess if that makes sense like like I said reason can't like comes from something we have to there's something that gives us that that urge to do right and wrong to do right over than more than wrong I mean people still commit you know wrongdoings but the majority of people choose to do right rather than wrong and so that's why I believe that's probably you know >> yeah but so let let me ask you if God didn't exist. Uh, and humans were just an organism trying to survive, then wouldn't we engage in exactly those same kind of quote unquote moral behaviors that I described to you? Cuz other animals >> do the same thing.

[00:23:58]Well, you I mean I don't think you can say that cuz we don't know.

[00:24:04]>> Well, well, if if you're appealing to absolute knowledge, then uh >> I was going to say there's plenty of species that are extinct because of poor practices.

[00:24:16]>> Uh such as >> Oh, [ __ ] I mean, how many extinct uh creatures or animals have lived that extinct. Yeah, but I wouldn't say that's down to bad practices. I mean, organisms go extinct usually because the environment changes and they're just not adapted to live in that new environment.

[00:24:39]That's not a choice.

[00:24:42]>> It's it's not a choice to not be adapted to your environment. It's just bad luck really.

[00:24:47]>> Well, but but when we talk about adapting to an environment, we're not doing things that are adapting like it's not about adapting to the environment.

[00:24:54]It's about um doing things wrong like killing each other or sorry unable >> oh well there aren't no you can say whatever you want I don't care >> okay >> well don't don't hurl like racial slurs and crap like but you can swear I don't I don't care um >> um yeah no I there there aren't organisms that go around just like murdering themselves or anything like that >> right But >> well, I mean there are like a lion, a male lion will kill all the cubs, but that's literally adaptable. Uh it's horrible to think, but uh it can basically be demonstrated that that actually does uh if not increase their fitness at least remains uh neutral. Otherwise, it couldn't be selected for, >> right?

[00:25:49]Yeah.

[00:25:51]I'll be honest with you, I kind of lost my train of thought there at the end there. Uh well, we were talking about Oh, this originally started with me asking you, "Yeah, but if God didn't exist and humans were just another animal, we would still the the only difference in our morality that I would see is we just wouldn't come up with ritualistic uh moral rules like, you know, when you when you're allowed to do certain things or not do certain things and how much grain you should offer the great guju at the bottom of the sea and all that stuff. Oh, train.

[00:26:26]>> Gotcha. So, you're you're you're saying if we had So, like I guess what would you say?

[00:26:30]>> Cuz you're saying the fact that we have morality is evidence of a god. And I'm saying, well, I I I don't think you have a strong case there because we would still engage in the same moral behaviors that you find in religious textbooks, texts, or whatever that have to do with our well-being because those are just so obviously uh adaptable for our survival.

[00:26:55]>> So, I guess you're saying even if there was no religion, we would still have the same kind of moral bindings that we have today. Yeah, we can we can see uh versions of it even in the animal kingdom.

[00:27:09]>> So I guess do you think well I guess you could say like you know these these un un uh discovered tribes in like the not undiscovered but tribes in the Amazon or rainforest.

[00:27:24]>> Un there are uncontacted tribes. Yeah.

[00:27:26]>> Right. Right. But I meant more I can't speak to those because we've never even contacted them. But the ones that have been contacted, do you think they have any sense of religious beliefs?

[00:27:37]>> Uh I I wouldn't doubt that it's fairly common. Um uh because we we see religious belief beliefs all over the world. I I I would I would hesitate to make a guess as to whether or not they have a theistic versus spiritualistic or animistic beliefs. uh in the new world like with Native Americans in North America. I don't I don't know so much about Central and South America, but they believed more in in animism that there was a spiritual kind of realm, but it didn't >> it didn't like necessarily create things. It was more of kind of a reverence >> uh toward nature. And they they would also probably believe that there's a a a kind of supernatural aspect to life as well. Like when you when you die, you return to the earth and there's some sort of I don't know, maybe like a recycling thing that goes along with that. Um so yeah, to what extent would that be a religion? Well, I think it's only really a religion if it becomes like uh bureaucratized. Like there's actually like there's a standardized uh uh story behind it and behaviors that you have to do and and [ __ ] like that.

[00:29:03]>> No, I get what you're saying. I guess >> Yeah, that's that's fair. I agree with that. Um, I guess my last thing and then I got to go. But what would your So what do you think happens after after death?

[00:29:20]>> I think your conscious experience ends.

[00:29:24]>> So you think it's just like that's it?

[00:29:27]>> Yep.

[00:29:29]>> Really?

[00:29:30]>> Yep.

[00:29:32]>> I just feel like that's such a and that's that's what you believe and I that's I get it. It just I I struggle with that a lot. It's like how do you >> No, I hate it. I actually hate it. I'm not lying. I hate it.

[00:29:47]>> But I just don't see any reason to think any any other way.

[00:29:53]>> I guess I guess one thing that I've also like believed is your your consciousness and energy has to go somewhere, right? I don't think there's I think there's energy. this I mean this sounds maybe a little taboo but I think you do have energy energy just doesn't dissipate I think it goes somewhere as crazy as that sounds and like I think that energy is your consciousness which can be considered your soul and I do believe that goes somewhere where that goes I don't know you know what I mean >> uh I hear what you're saying yeah >> but you don't know what I mean and that's fair but it's just I don't Like I guess it's just it's a weird thought, but I appreciate the conversation and I'll uh I appreciate your time. So I'll give you a follow cuz that was a good conversation.

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