Who will win GE16? Can Parti Bersama Malaysia change old politics?

追加: 2026-05-30

[00:00:01]Hello Malaysians, my name is Raz Sharisan Reindu. I'm a post-graduate student at University Malaysia Sabah and I study social anthropology. Today I have yet again been invited uh by Professor Dr. Mohammad Tajin Muhammad Razi to talk about politics. Professor Dr. Tajin, thank you so much for having me yet again.

[00:00:20]Oh, thank you for agreeing to do this again and I'm most appreciative of uh you spending the time uh to actually be part of our nation building process.

[00:00:33]>> Thank you. Uh so, Professor Tajin, uh today I would like to begin uh our conversation by talking about uh party Malaysia which was recently taken over by Datri Rafi Ramli and Nicknazmik Ahmed. Um so uh as Douglas Rafi Rami transitions into the role of president in Patama Malaysia with the ambition of establishing a multi-racial merit-based governance he said um how confident are you that Rafi and his team would succeed. Are there any political concerns do you think uh Profudin that Rafi and his team should actively address that they have not already done to demonstrate uh their political reliability?

[00:01:18]Well, thank you very much uh Ras for that question. Uh before I begin to actually give my perspective on this issue, uh I would like to uh mention outrightly that I have nothing against Rafi Ramli or uh my friend Mick Nazmi. I mean I was invited to Mazmi's broadcast and I happen to think both of them are good politicians. Yeah, they are what we call the good guys. Okay. And um whatever perspective I present usually people will say oh it's anti-raisi and things like that. I don't think that's fair. Okay. Because what I am presenting is simply uh looking at the context of let's say why uh Rafi and Nick Nazby went out of PKR and then why the party was established. Uh a lot of people uh simply has a notion that ah this is a new party and therefore um it must be good. Okay. Now uh I'm 64 years old.

[00:02:18]I've seen new parties coming out. For instance uh I I don't think you were born yet maybe when PKR was uh uh first uh uh coming into the uh uh into the political scene. Now if you look at the formation of say PKR okay and then we can also compare to the formation of BATU right and then when you look at the formation of party B sama or the taking over having a new party we just say it's a new a new party then you can you can you can see uh certain differences there number one uh in PKR we see DO Ibrahim being taken into prison uh in a manner that is totally unjustified Okay. Totally unjustified in whatever manner you can sing. And he was sacked.

[00:03:06]Okay. And then uh he didn't even have a chance to defend himself uh in the public. Uh only a short while for him.

[00:03:14]And then only they put him in prison.

[00:03:16]And so um this was the dark days of reform which I was a part of and um the birth of party Kadilan Rayad after the help from party Islam s Malaysia and the DAP coming into together to to have this uh this aspect of justice. Now um the birth of PKR after the first election only one one one seat which is the seat by one Aziza. So that that is the the the birth of PKR. Now the birth of Batu is about how Mahat wanted to defeat um Najib and that Pakistan Harapat needed some sort of help in order to defeat Naja and Balistan National. It's a very a very difficult task. Um but the point here is that we did not know that actually Mahate wanted to create another AMNO within Pakatan Harapan and then you know uh engineer himself to be liked when he was in AMNO. But the point here is that Bersatu was formed just so that it becomes a kind of um aid to the Pakatan Harapan so that the uh the Malays can have an alternative party to uh the uh uh AMNO and things like okay so so that is the situation and and and and now we see like Basama we must remember u if we say that uh um um Rafi and Nazmi uh uh true fighters of justice and all that. The the question that lingers to the mind is that um they uh started to talk against their party once they had lost their party election. Okay. So, so you must remember that. Now, why is this important? Okay. My my point here is that both Nik Nazmi lost uh his position and Rati lost a very big position and not by a small margin very very big margin. Okay. The question here is that why isn't it that they did not uh you know reform reform themselves in terms of uh getting more influences with the PPR members and then uh get ready for another election for them to because this is the democratic process isn't it so why is it that they decided to actually say things against the party right and and if they did not like the party then why is it that they did not resign their MP position then that was about 7 8 months ago and have an election why why why wait and and and things like that so so those are questions about they are not being sacked they are not being thrown into prison you know and so why is it that they wanted to have this this this uh this new party from my perspective I'm looking at uh what I call disenchantment in the sense of being rejected so Um we see that Hamza Zenidian is being sacked because he's threatening uh the leadership but Rafi was not sacked.

[00:06:28]Okay. So so that is the question. The other question was that both Rafi and Nick Nazmi uh vacated their minister position for what? I mean why why did they do that? No, nobody sacked them. I know I did not sack them. In fact I know said please don't resign. They resigned.

[00:06:46]Okay. the uh one of the Sarawa minister also lost his uh party uh his uh position in uh in the party and he asked Abang Jojo whether he should resign said no need just continue working and then he's working as a minister till now okay so so what why what why is it that you are having this new uh what do you call it this new uh party um you are not sack you're not put in prison, you not done anything and and suddenly you are talking against your party and then you're waiting for a certain position where you resign in order not to have any election because you can't have any more election uh so that uh you cannot test whether you are popular or not. So it's very convenient. So you see that this is a kind of a premeditated attempt at what some people can say sabotage.

[00:07:41]Okay. So this is the problem. I'm not being negative. I'm just being factual.

[00:07:46]These are the facts. So most people when they want to say whether they like a party basama Malaysia with Rafui, they just listening, oh the government is bad, this is bad, this is bad, but they never talk about why this thing come about. For me, it is very important uh for for us to see why this thing come about. Now next month we are going to listen to how Hamza Zenuin going to put out his party. So that is another another situation. Okay. So so this is the the the way that I think that we need to think about. So the question that you asked just now uh what uh are the things uh that they have not thought about and things like that. Now with the Pakistan harapan they had the experience of being in the opposition. Okay. All right. Then after that they had the experience of becoming a government for 22 months before the sheratan moved. So they had that experience. Now I've always said that knowledge is useless if you don't have experience. Okay. So the real aspect about knowledge is about experience. Remember that uh whatever you learn in university from books, these are what I call downloaded knowledge. Knowledge that you just download. Okay? Uh for for memory and and and things like that. Those are not real knowledge. Knowledge is only real when you have the experience. So with the Pakistan Harapan after that they uh they uh they they uh they had to form a government with uh ANO which is something um very new and also something that needs a certain way of handling. So that goes with experience. Now people say it would not last beyond the first parliamentary sitting but it's already 3 years now we see that there must be some problem like in the Greece Milan and in in Joho some threats but Zahed Aidi is saying no we must still be togetherman also say we need to be together Kar Jamaludin is also saying something like that now why are they saying something like that are they trying to actually you know maneuver themselves so that they can be or they know that this is going to be the new politics. So, so these are the experience for me for us to look at that these are the experience that's going on like getting married and then you have some problems either you split up on you Sabah and then you go through the uh the you know the the the hard patch until maybe you get into going on but here uh what's happening is that Rafi and Nazby has ignored uh this experience okay all they say is that these are all politics We want new politics. Well, I'm sorry to say the the the old politic is the politics. Okay? Whether you say uh is broken, is old, is useless, is well, it is it is there. What is is already there. So, you need to to deal with that. How you deal with that is the uh the uh the creativity and and also the kahana and kasabar or whatever the patience for you to learn like the AP.

[00:10:55]But the AP is being attacked left and right for being so quiet. But they are the ones performing. All right. But people are not looking at that. So once upon a time they were very vocal but now they are not that they are silent. They know how to be uh discrete reserve and things like that. It's a different politic when you you you go into another uh situation. So, so uh this is a problem when I see that Rafi and Nazby are trying to give the impression that they can change and they can have a future if we have this new direction.

[00:11:31]The question here is that you the one who left the old direction. You did not see whether you could actually not save yourself but also uh you know reinvent yourself within your own party and within that coalition and then uh uh move uh into into that situation. What you did was now let's just get out. So if you do that then one day the votes will be split then everybody loses.

[00:11:58]Okay. So this is uh does Rafi know of course he knows that PKR will lose a lot of his vote. What will happen if PKR loses? Okay. And PBM will probably not win. Even Rafi admits that kamikazi says this is a kamikazi. What is kamicazi?

[00:12:15]Kamikazi is you destroy your the enemy by destroying yourself. For what? Okay.

[00:12:21]So for what? All right. So here unfortunately is going to be for the other parties. you'll have Barisan National or Pria National benefiting from this uh this this war. So here we cannot stop Rafi and Nick Nazmi for doing what they are doing. But the question here is about us. How do we deal with that? Are we looking at it?

[00:12:44]Well, it's popular. He's got 85,000 viewers for his podcast and he's got what 20,000 people subscribing. So that must be good. I mean you you need to look to look beyond that. I'm sure if Hamza launch his party, he's going to get like 50,000 within 3 weeks. Uh mostly of course Malaysia. All right. So what is the big deal there about about numbers uh from that perspective?

[00:13:11]>> Yeah.

[00:13:12]>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm just saying that you seem to be giving the impression that there is little hope for party basis to win in the next general election uh in comparison to parties like Priyata National, Parisan National. But if if if they were to compete, if they were to be at the same level with Priyatan National, Barisan National and Pakistan Harapan, what can they do to ensure that they they gain the trust of the public?

[00:13:41]Uh I'm not sure whether I understand it correctly but I'll try to best respond to it. Uh for me um um party basama Malaysia is different than Muda. Muda at one time I remember very well when it first came out with Sadik um they announced that after I'm not sure whether a week or two weeks or three weeks they had 70,000 uh um supporters okay registered supporters. Okay. Then I was very excited and thought that wow this is going to change the landscape of the country with the young people you know and and and all that but uh two things happened in the sense that or two things one thing did not happen and another thing happened the first thing that happened was that uh did not happen was that Muta didn't do anything unlike Rafi he had already campaigned with all his podcast and and and and a lot of of course mainly his podcast his podcast only feature himself Okay. It doesn't teach anybody else.

[00:14:42]Only him and a few young people like what I'm doing now with you. Okay. So the the the point here is that he was well prepared and then he's carrying it through uh with this digital media and and you know but Muda didn't did not do that. Okay. Did not do anything at all.

[00:15:00]And then they said that they were going to get uh young people. But actually Muda did not does not uh mean young people. Okay. it's uh uh it means something else. So so that did not happen. Now the the other thing uh that actually uh uh happened was that people keep saying that oh young people are not going to vote for identity you know politics and all that you you you know the the the 20 uh the G15 election showed that young people even though they not even had any political experience but they went with sentiments okay race sentiment and religious sentiment and that's what gave past uh this win. All right. So, uh to say that young people um more matured, I'm not sure. I'm not saying young people uh cannot uh choose. I mean, you want to choose, you choose that is a given right to you. Choose your wife, choose your government, choose your uh friends and things like that. That that's your choice. But if you were to say that uh um young people like 18 year old, 19 year old, 20-y old for me uh they they still follow sentiment. I I know this from the Malay culture, but for the non-Malay culture, I'm not I'm not so sure how how much how much maturity can can you get from from there.

[00:16:26]So banking on young people um I'm I'm not sure about that. So uh so in this sense uh when you say that uh Rafi or or sorry the PBM party can be on the same uh level as Barisan National and Briata National with the machinery. Now of course like you we don't understand the election uh system or mechanism.

[00:16:54]um whether you are very popular uh on the uh podcast and things like that that does not uh uh mean that you will win election. Okay. Same thing like people say even though your charama draws in thousands of people it still doesn't mean that you might be able might win the election. Okay. So sometime the same people keep going to the charama or the same people keep going to the to the podcast. Uh so so that means that you have to establish your machinery. Like it or not, you have to go doortodoor.

[00:17:25]Okay. Uh that is uh Malaysian politics.

[00:17:27]Like the older generation uh they they are not really that impressed with all this uh uh social media and things like that, you know, because they have live a longer a longer lifetime. So your uh statement that that they can be on par, I'm not sure. What I think they're going to do is simply to destroy Pakatan PKR.

[00:17:49]Okay, because number one, Rafi seems to have a very personal vendetta against Ano Ibrahim. So, it's a personality problem. All right. And I don't know about Nazi and all that, but he has that. So, uh I assume he's going to go for the mix seed. and do if the mix seats are uh split. Okay. So the Malays will then become the kingmakers. Right.

[00:18:19]Right. So that is what's going to happen in peninsula. Not not in uh in Saraba and Sawa. I don't see that. I don't even see them uh going to go for many seats.

[00:18:29]Okay. Maybe they want to try to take over Slango. All right. That that that could be possible. um if I were them and also maybe in parliament maybe 20 seats that they would try to get uh I think that would be the more viable approach for them to actually target and if they could actually win um even not uh a lot with Lango but they would win a few seats okay remember Muda Muda had to rely on um the help of Pakaharan and also remember Amana Amana will never win if it's not helped by the AAP or PKR.

[00:19:06]All right. So, even PKR also had to depend on something like DAP. So, um the idea of winning uh is really not really that um realistic at the moment. So, this is where I I ask the question if you kamikazi who's going to win, right?

[00:19:25]So, this is where it's not I have nothing personal against Rafici or if I had my way, I would vote for them. All right? But I know if I vote for them then I will destroy our future. Not because of them. Okay? It's because something else will happen. So this is the problem. I have nothing against them wanting to do whatever they want to do.

[00:19:45]Uh good luck to them and and and I would support them. uh uh if the diff if their purpose for setting up the party was not because they were you know um lost their election seat and things like that but for something else then then there will be something um at the moment I do think that uh that there something is happening in the country that we are moving even though slowly but we are moving okay but if we lanka we are going to give it to a party that's not going to to move. That's why I want I wrote an article about no change, partial change or promise change. BBM is giving promise change.

[00:20:26]There's no track record and just promises.

[00:20:30]No change will come when you know AMO or pass or uh um Bratu comes into power they they will you know have no change uh than whatever the status quo partial change is what's happening at the moment. Okay. with uh let's say the UEC uh um recently it says this is the pathway and then I mean both AMNO and Pakistan harabal were attacked by pass for giving in to Chinese and that sort of thing. All right and uh so this is this is I said we need to to go uh step by step and and uh in the show way. So this is what we have uh uh uh done.

[00:21:10]Okay.

[00:21:12]>> Okay. Thank you so much for tidin. Um I'd like to follow up with what you said about um Datu Rafi Z Ramli blaming left and right um about all kinds of things politically. Now according to a recent media report uh Rafi Ziri Ramli has blamed the prime minister Datus Anoir Ibrahim for his failure to ease racial and religious tensions in the country.

[00:21:35]He claimed uh that the prime minister is more concerned with incuring Ammo's wrath than nipping racial issues in the butt. In response, Protin, you had said that uh mitigating racial and religious conflict is not a one-man job, but rather a responsibility of all Malaysians. So there I ask, uh why do you think uh that Rafi Ramy continues to indulge in a political blame game? your quote. Would you say that that his criticism of the prime minister is constructive? Is it for for uh for the sake of improving uh what he believes needs improving improvement? Um how do you care to respond to Rafy's continuous attacks on the prime minister and unity government?

[00:22:21]>> Yeah. First of all, I have no interest in defending Anoir Ibrahim or defending the thing like that. No interest at all.

[00:22:29]Okay. But I am also I am of course interested in putting justice where it's supposed to be. Okay. So if you are talking nonsense then I need to educate you. Okay. Now before this if you were to follow whatever Rafi's podcast or news and you can you can hardly hear him talk anything about race relation. He carefully stays away from that. Okay. uh he's an expert uh in giving or criticizing uh things that you know u for instance about the Azambaki case and things like that where um you know if the case is being investigated you cannot I I I'm in the disciplinary community committee for a civil servant you know we we can't disclose what's happening uh within the the the the process of investigation and uh questioning and things like that we can't Okay, those are confidential. So he conveniently attack things where you cannot have an answer. Okay, so that is one thing. The other thing is that um he's oversimplifying race and religious issues with 1% which is the prime minister. Okay, some people say some people commented when I said that and say this so stupid. Rafi is economy minister. Okay, prime minister is the PM. So, so economy minister s why talk about uh race religion for me I said what what is this okay uh we are treating the idea that if you're a doctor then you chuck up doctor then tell Dr. Mahhat don't come into politics just become a doctor right or you a lawyer just become a lawyer then tell don't become a politician right this is absolute nonsense if there is something that you understand in your heart and in your mind very clearly not not hazy you feel very strongly about it you need to speak up that's what I said in one speech he said all of us must speak up against extremism is a right so that is he understands that he he alone cannot cannot do these things people are also still used to the idea of Dr. being the king of all, right? So those days are over. All right? There's there's none of that anymore. And he picked the KK issue and akum which for me is is what we call you know batango means easy for me to answer because akumal sal is the responsibility of zahidi.

[00:25:12]Okay. It's like you having a son or a or a daughter. Do you like it if I go and and and uh you know slap your your your son or daughter for doing something wrong or do you think I should go to you first and say I think your son and daughter have done this and this and that this and that and I'll leave it up to you to to take action. Which one do you prefer? Okay. Obviously you prefer the other one. Okay. So um you cannot go and and and and discipline someone from another party, right? uh even Zahed Hamidi wants to discipline uh Akumar also he has to be very careful because Akumar is very popular okay he's very popular among the uh the Amno members and and also the Malay people and if he did the wrong thing and and you can see how he has to phrase this and phrase that and all that and uh so what we call chak even though he's advising uh atal but he has to uh has to be doing it in a certain certain way. So, so that is totally unfair for Rafi to dump the KKK issue on uh Ano. Ano has already said enough let the investigation this and that but Akumar went on and on and on.

[00:26:33]Okay. And so um if there's any right why didn't he just attack that's an obvious choice isn't it?

[00:26:44]Oh, because the president but you know are you stupid or what? All right. Okay. So you cannot go and cross party.

[00:27:07]I mean even the prime minister doesn't doesn't say okay I went and say you know I I had to go in and say that because I know he cannot say it. Yeah.

[00:27:20]So, so the point here is that Anthony Lo also you notice Anthony Lo did not say anything in public but after that Tony Po and Yin was very quiet because I know he probably got a phone call to go by Anthony Po which is not made public. All right. And then only uh Anthony made a very simple statement about this and that this and that. So that is the way okay Rafi way if he became prime minister I don't think he will last two weeks in a coalition or or a mixed government situation because he'll just lash out at anybody and then uh you know your your partner is going to leave. So this is uh something which we call diplomacy uh uh that needs to be having wisdom as well as u what we call um decorum between between parties I mean if you if you work later on and you have certain issues with your co-workers uh how you let's say one person first of all you have to find out this person answers to whom okay you cannot make can simply just uh um reprimand this person.

[00:28:35]You need to show this answers to whom then maybe you have a um a short word with this uh other people and that that's how uh professionalism is, isn't it? Okay. So that that's how it works.

[00:28:49]>> So professor Tajin um I would like to ask for your opinion on the potential coalition between Pakatan Harapan and Paty Brisama Malaysia on forming the government in the next general election.

[00:29:01]uh a recent media report suggests that aligning with a party or coalition will likely be required to form a government in the coming uh general election given the fractured uh voter base. So um despite the one-sided political drama between Dus Rafi Zi Ramli and the prime minister of Malaysia Bama which is led by political ideology. So hypothetically, Professor Tajjudin, in a situation where uh Party Brisama Malaysia gains enough public votes to potentially uh be an ally for forming a government, would you agree that uh a coalition between Pakistan Harapan and Party Brisma Malaysia is ideal in serving the interest of the nation? What do you think?

[00:29:50]>> Well, there is no choice in this matter.

[00:29:53]That's why um I had said that um if you say things like politic lama we are not interested. This is silly. Okay. It's very silly to to go and say uh all these parties and then suddenly you have to be with them. Okay. So um I don't know what is the relationship between Rafi and the DAP. Okay. It doesn't seem that Rafi has been attacking the DAP only an Ibrahim and certain uh if if you notice when he was a PR member he did not mention the word Anoa but then after he went out appropriately then the the the name Anoa will be thrown about all all over the place okay so but the point here is that even if they can form let's say PKR lost all their seat 40 seats and and PBM miraculously wins 40 seats and then uh you have DAP also 40 seats where are you going to get the other 40 seats GPS doesn't have enough seats okay for that so so this is the question if you say no we don't want either pass or no these are the two biggest Malay parties okay I I've already said to some people if these two biggest Malay parties become the opposition what's going to happen in Malaysia right is going to cause a real habok like what happened. We know what it is because this 2018 now pass and AMO was on the same uh opposition bench but pass at that time only had 17 vote but now pass has 44 seats. Okay. So with that power uh you can see the Turon Anoa rally they could gather 20,000 people right and you could see that the isert and the Rome statute 30,000 people came out which which are Malays. So these are potential flash point if uh we do not split past and unno if we let them become opposition there'll be problem but if we let them become the government that's also a problem okay because they'll be dominated by single race which also happened in the in the sharatan move if you remember but at that time uh amno had two camps you remember one camp with zid the other camp like anam musa kj They were all with the basu they don't like. So the thing but what happens if two biggest party which is are very strong and they are united in their purpose they become the government or they become the opposition. So like it or not you have to play politic.

[00:32:38]All right. Um so that means you need either pass or amno in order to form the government. There's no two ways about it. Okay. There's no two ways about it. So so that is the question. If you start saying things like well we are going with meritocracy.

[00:32:56]We do not want identity politic. We don't everything. These are what I call paper politics.

[00:33:03]What is paper politic? Is like academic papers. is all you know I'm a professor I know academic papers right okay so it doesn't really worth anything much when it hits the ground right when it hits the ground there is all sorts of things you know it's like a blueprint for war has very nice uh written out with charts and and arrows pointing here and there but once it hit the ground that's a whole different story alto together that you need to react to that if this happened that happened, this happened, this how you going to handle that? So, uh yeah, very nice to listen to all these uh uh fantasy things um uh paper things uh but uh uh the reality is is is is not there within that uh situation.

[00:33:52]Now, I'm not now if you say that look um when the time comes we will cross this bridge uh for the sake of the Malaysian people, then I'm okay, right? But they seem to sing that oh we we are going to have all this very nice on switch off switch.

[00:34:10]I've seen it 20 years already and I've seen 2018 was the great lesson uh uh between 2018 you we can see and we can predict what will happen uh in this country with regard to the u to the voters and to the conservatism issues.

[00:34:27]You can see it very clearly. You are an anthropologist. you should know uh much much better how uh you know to predict what is going to happen just by looking at you know like the UEC issue the rain wraith uh and then the pig farming oh my god I mean I mean it's a whole load of things okay and then the sultan coming in saying this what do you do with that okay so how do you approach the sultan there was one article that says that amno knows how to deal with the sultan you know DAP doesn't know how to deal with the Sultan. So that is also politics. All right. How to deal with Sultan who already gave a creed. Look at what Sani did. You know he was going to be charged with sedition but he goes and that is off.

[00:35:16]So, okay.

[00:35:20]But if you want to use um Professor Bajin, uh speaking of prediction, I'm interested to hear what you think will happen in the next general election. Would you care to give your comment?

[00:35:38]Well, uh, again, this one, it depends on, um, how, uh, the Malaysian public, especially, uh, the non-M. The Malays are, I'm pretty much sure, they are quite split between, uh, AMO is gaining ground. Okay. And Pas and Batu is not as strong with the Malays at the moment, even though they are a force to be reckoned with. So that's the Malay group. The issue here is the kingmaker which is the non Malay group.

[00:36:10]Okay. So how will they react? If they react very positively to party sama Malaysia then I am definitely very sure that we will have uh not a pria national government or maybe we we will have a pria national government but no I don't think so because of their argument they we will have a past and amno government.

[00:36:34]Okay. uh Amno has no problem working with pass as long as they are the top dog. Okay. So, so that that will be the the the end result uh of the uh uh of the um DE16. Why? Because uh PBM uh and PKR will both lose. Okay. They will lose to the uh if uh if PBM if the uh Barisan National or or AMO and PN is following uh PBM very closely. They're not going to make friends with PBM. They want PBM to be the enemy of PKR. Okay. Even I know Ibrahim will lose his seat. I I am confident of that. Okay. because of this uh idea that you know given out reform whatever all this nonsense and you don't even appreciate what he has to go through he's not taking salary his family is not with any corruption we have Zambaki and SPRM you know doing all sorts of tankapan nobody's impressed okay so if you are not uh gru uh you don't show gratitude with what you are given it's like the story of the dog with the bone. You know, the dog with the bone already has the bone, but when he saw the the another bigger bone in his the water, he wants that bone. And so what happened? He he lost that bone because he wanted to grab the imaginary bone, the promised bone. Okay. So this is what will happen. I have no doubt that PBM will show a strong showing in terms of vote, but not enough to win.

[00:38:13]They cannot win. If they say things like, "Oh, we're going to take the young people." I I have I the young people still uh going with sentiments. All right. Identity politic. Some people say, "No, no, they not I don't know what where they they're getting this information from." Okay. But I do know Malays young people, old people, young people. Okay. The politic is very very uh very easy to to predict. Okay. So uh so definitely um I think um if PBM becomes quite popular then both they will cancel each other out PKR will lose most of their seat. Amana also uh because Amana depends on a lot of DAP the DAP I think uh depend on what they're going to do in July they want to have their convention then maybe they they they will resign their ministership as a kind of a uh protest of the idea of you know wanting to have leverage uh but then the election will be called in October so so so they will get some sort of face saving measure I don't know okay so but I still think that the DAP is still uh um party that PBM cannot cannot beat but PBM definitely can beat PKR any time of the day and it's the fault of PKR Duga they are not showing off what they have achieved I know Ibrahim still playing uh what we call strong men politic uh I'm I'm trying to say that they should have uh who are the younger Palapes you know who are the these new people you know I mean who are the new idols uh Rafi and Nicknaz me are the idolopes but then they went out so now who who is that nisa cannot be the idol because it's too close to Anoa and now you know that the the election what do you call it the commander will be Amirin and Sakurin okay so that's a step in the right direction not to have so I'm hoping that they will put in some young people uh to actually counter the idea of this young people movement with party basama Malaysia. So if PKR loses that means it's their fault also they are the incumbent but they cannot sell themselves. They don't have their wow factor. All right. Rafi has their excuse factor I call it. Even uh or blame factor sorry he's got the blame factor. All right. Um Pakatan or PKR cannot use the blame factor. Okay.

[00:40:44]Cannot. So they have to have the future factor. The wow future factor. Right.

[00:40:49]And if they don't know how to do they should they should lose they deserve to lose PKR they don't know how to handle uh you know the uh the minds of the of the people so they they really should uh should lose too but the point here is that when they lose PBN also loses because cannot win all right they cannot win uh without the idea of identity politics and and and you know like they say kissing babies and all that kind of thing okay so you have to be part of the the whole process. Look at Trump. Trump is playing on Christian uh spirit. Not sure whether you know he's a very good Christian or not, but he's definitely using that. Okay. Uh to justify his war with Iran and also all the things that he's been doing uh so far. So you need to to to to do that also. and and and these are the things that uh I predict that uh we will have a pass and uh I'm no government uh in GE16 if PBM um uh becomes popular but they would win. Okay.

[00:41:59]>> Yeah. Okay. I'll do it again. So, professor Tajin uh given that the target voters of party bisama Malaysia are centered on the urban youth and centrist voters uh which are those who are not practically in support of any parties.

[00:42:14]Uh how would you advise young Malaysians to politically participate while making an informed decision? What would your advice be to them to ensure that they are making the right decision politically?

[00:42:27]Yes, I think what they need to actually u try to think I mean it's very difficult u ras to to tell you that hey you should be a good husband you should be a good father you know unless and until you you you experience it and having all these issues then and only then uh you can uh you you you can see who you are. So um the the thing is that it's very easy to get excited about something new. That's number one. It's also very easy to get excited with the idea that it's not only young voters, it's also old voters summer especially the non-malist. Okay, who have been uh fed the narrative that this is a failure uh you know and all these things. So, so I would advise if you say that uh uh this is a failure then you should actually look uh clearly you know uh and and deeply whether uh what is going on in the country you know are we suffering economically to the point that you don't have jobs or all all that sort of thing and and people are saying that government must do something about the economy but are you doing something about your own economy all right are you trying to earn uh extra income or are you trying to make better use of your of your resources? Uh these are also things that you need to to look at. It's easy to just uh get on the blame game by somebody fresh uh by saying this and that. The opposition just saying they don't have to prove anything. They'll just say things. Okay.

[00:44:06]So these are the uh so-called the uh promise change which does not have any track record. That's number one. Number two, uh understand that change um takes time and it takes diplomacy. All right?

[00:44:22]It's not like uh a military power or a authoritarian regime like uh China. They can say this and they can say that and then tomorrow you can just do it. Okay?

[00:44:32]You you cannot have it um um in a manner in which you want it this way, this way, this way and then you get it. Maybe you want something but it may not be that way. It may have to be delayed a little bit. It may have a partial thing and things like that. So this is the reality of change. Change in a manner in which uh you have people uh that can uh also voice uh a certain concern because of the freedom of the speech and freedom of social media at the moment.

[00:45:05]But if you have uh if you live in a country where there's only one way uh then that's a that's a that's an entirely different different way of of uh having decision because in a sense you don't have decision decisions are made by other people. Okay. So um we always talk about democracy but then there is a question R whether you understand that responsibility of democracy or not. So this is the uh a problem also. If you decide uh because you like this party but then something else happens then you are actually giving a win to another party. Okay.

[00:45:44]When you when you vote for a party you expect that party to win. But what happens when you vote this party another party will win. Okay. So this is uh the thing that happened. Now in GE15 some of the non-Malies uh did not come out to vote why because uh they didn't like the choice of certain um what do you call candidates right so Pakatan Harapan couldn't get their 112 seat because of that and also there was Muda that came in uh as a spoiler uh spoiler party they didn't expect to win they are a spoiler party because perhaps they were financed by other people to spoil it. I don't know. But I I saw that they they had no chance to win but they pulled up certain votes and then if you tally the the votes then you can see uh a lot of uh been taken away and somebody else won. Okay, meaning Prikata national one. Okay. So Muda was to be the force of change but they became the force of giving non-change to this Pria National.

[00:46:53]Okay. cricket national is non-change.

[00:46:56]Okay. Uh they're not a reformist party, right? So uh so so be careful um if you are voting on the lines of viewership and also the idea of when somebody blames something um listen to what is their constructive way of solving that problem. Okay. Now when you want to solve that problem uh try to read a bit about the the problem but of course not many people are going to do that. Okay. So this is when you say an informed decision. Okay. What do you mean by an informed decision if you don't uh actually do a little bit of homework. All right. And so this is the uh uh the the thing that I would like to uh to advise and uh um that the voters uh should be uh very responsible with the choice that they make uh because they could actually be uh making or having a choice of drinking poison for themselves rather than drinking a drink that is healthy. Okay. When you think that it is healthy but actually it is not. It's like listening to somebody say, "Hey, if you drink this, you know, you'll stay healthy." Where's the evidence for it? You know, where's the where's the um the research about it?

[00:48:20]You didn't do your homework. You just listen, hey, this guy drank and he was good and then that guy drank, he said.

[00:48:26]Of course, they being paid by the company. I mean, obviously, uh uh they're going to say that. So, this is the Joel Ubat uh mindset and there's nobody to be blamed. uh if you have a country uh with the uh government that you didn't like uh because you yourself could have been the blame for that.

[00:48:46]Okay? So don't again I say I don't like blaming people. All right. In my in my talks and my advice I I I don't like to blame right explain and then you make your choice. It's okay if you've already done your research you make your choice then that's okay. Whatever happens happens. And again we need to see that whatever party comes into play if the party gives out certain good policy then we should support it. All right. Even pass or whatever they might actually have some good policies then we should support. If certain policies uh is not something that we like then we see is that difficulty of of this policy that they they have to make and if we were to actually try to uh criticize that policy will that cause another problem. Okay.

[00:49:36]Like certain other people having this racial or religious um um uh what do you call charasal right to to actually counter. So, so these are also uh something that need to be informed and it cannot be based on sentiment quick sentiment uh like that we live in a very precarious situation.

[00:50:01]Okay, Professor Tajin um one final question before we leave. Um, can you can you tell us why Malaysians in general should or should not uh give uh the current prime minister Datus Anoir Ibrahim a chance in the next general election? What do you think of this?

[00:50:23]>> Okay. Uh for me uh my choice is very simple.

[00:50:28]Okay. I know uh a lot of the people in government under PH. Okay. Because uh I was with them um for 20 over years now.

[00:50:40]I hope the young people like you who were never have never seen the struggle that they had gone through and and making judgments like oh he didn't do this they are too quiet like that is totally unfair. There was one person who did a podcast uh who was a friend of mine's a Chinese and he said oh all these politicians are con man and I immediately went and and and said I take offense that you say people like Anthony lo ano Ibraim as conmen would you characterize them as conmen uh Russ is it this is a very unkind and an untrue thing to say But listen to how uh simplification uh um you know comes about uh by just uh putting for me if you look at Ano Ibrahim he doesn't take the salary I think he should have taken the salary why shouldn't he take the salary but he wanted to prove a point he didn't take the salary and to me that's the first thing okay it's a it's a first time but look at how non-malists treat him or other people also treat Oh, they said this, they said that they're not having any gratitude uh of that. Then you ask your question which of his family benefit from this he's got six children or five children who who's benefiting is suddenly oneiz having more jewelry than before or or what? Okay, there there is no report about uh you know they they vacationing in expensive places over you know indulging themselves like u you know I don't know whether Najin and Rosma indulge them I I just listen to whatever people have have said right and and things like that so so uh even personal way and another thing you know he has been defeated by certain people in sodomy 1 and sodomy 2. What is happening to these people?

[00:52:53]These people are not imprisoned. These people are not being being uh hounded.

[00:52:58]Okay. They are just left in uh to what we call what God will just you know judge on them. I know because I followed sodomy one with his driver and all this thing. Sodomy 2 with this guy Ciphul Bkari whatever. And I mean still these people are not taking action. you know if you want to have a data you can you can actually do that but uh it's not it's not done in that way so so I think also uh having the idea of working with your enemy like amno uh something can come out because this is the only formula uh with sorry a malay party uh one of them is either pass or amno okay pass didn't want to work with ph amn wants to work with age. Okay. So that shows that past is greedy and with all their religious lettering I don't trust them at all even though I was a past member for 20 years right. So uh between the two yes uh ANO has all their history baggage but have you heard any of their ANO having corruption now because ANO controls the bus and people say oh you know so he is doing that very well as far as I understand it and people still Okay. Show any gratitude at all. They want to look at something which is obviously something which is very difficult. Okay. But you didn't acknowledge. Just like having your wife or your friend and you keep finding things uh that the other person have not done when in fact those things that they already are doing or have become you are not appreciative or their nature also you are not appreciative.

[00:54:57]Why? Because you want it your way. So isn't that a very bad uh uh uh relationship if you think only from your own perspective and not look at at at other people's uh context and also what they have already contributed. So for me change will have to take all these phases. If we ignore this then we will reverse our back 30 years.

[00:55:24]Okay. Because as I said PBM cannot wait.

[00:55:29]Okay. If they do not come into the normal politics, yes, it's nice to have new ones, but you still have to deal with the old politic. All right. So, if you don't have uh um debates about that and I'm I'm waiting for Rafi to be debating or to having a forum with uh you know counterparts, his own counterpart. I'm waiting for that. He's just speaking computer and then with with young people that is his proteges.

[00:56:01]Where's the debate like Kamaludin with other people coming in now? Kyrie deserve a lot of respect in terms of uh how he's handling the situation. I mean I'm not a fan of Kyrie but I that guy deserve a lot of respect in terms of how he deal with his setting. you know, he was sad, right? But then how he did not attack his party, but then he rebuilt himself. Now he's back into the party and he's so so that's another model.

[00:56:28]Instead, why why didn't he form a new party, you know, or take over another party? So, you need to look at survival skills uh in in in that sense.

[00:56:41]So, that's that's a very interesting case study, okay, of of a person. And I do believe that Kyrie can be some change in Amnom. Okay. Um he can counter the the kind of rhetoric of Akumar Sal and things like that that can be better for Malaysia. So ANO needs to come to a certain center. All right.

[00:57:07]Rather than to rightwing okay but uh they are better than pass who is definitely rightwing at the moment.

[00:57:17]Okay. So of the two um what they call the devil that you know uh is better than the one that you uh do not uh do not know. So, so that's why I think that we need to uh keep the momentum going and then we need to be advising uh and also supporting if we think certain things are good and if there's something that is a miss wait for the full information first and then uh ask for uh explanation in a in a in a better manner rather than just you know mouthing off just like that or worse like Rafi attacking your own party um uh just to be popular uh on on on this side.

[00:58:03]>> Professor Tajin, thank you so much for having me again. Unfortunately, that is all the time that we have today. Um do you have any final words?

[00:58:10]>> Uh yes, thank you Russ for agreeing to uh do this podcast. I'm always appreciative of your time and especially your questions.