Traditional Rules of Hunting on Navajo Land

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:10]Through all your careers and experience and bring you up to where you are currently.

[00:00:15]Now let's go to the outdoorsman side of you. Okay.

[00:00:20]What was the how how old were you when you first started uh introduced to hunting or decided to do hunting if it wasn't already part of built into your upbringing?

[00:00:31]So >> [clears throat] >> um probably when I was 5 6 years old.

[00:00:40]Uh my uh father passed when I was five. So I had uncles. Mhm. And they would take me fishing and I started shooting about that age 6 7 8 years old. What was your first rifle? Uh my first my first one that I shot was a single shot 22. Bolt action? Well, you have to pull back. Yeah, pull taxing but you pull back Uh-huh. the and it. Yeah.

[00:01:06]And so I hunted birds, you know, rabbits, stuff kids do.

[00:01:12]And about that as I got into my teenage years um my uncles hunted but they didn't I did I wasn't allowed to go. Yeah. And so um I was actually introduced to hunting by my other relatives and friends.

[00:01:36]Um my uncle Ernie Watson out of coal mine. He he was what instrumental in going and and that's what I started when I started actually learning to hunt probably about 16 17 years old.

[00:01:52]And um that's what started my journey on hunting.

[00:01:57]And that's that's [music] kind of what brought me to where I am now.

[00:02:16]>> [music] >> What was >> [music] >> what species was your uh first hunt?

[00:02:32]Mule deer. Mule deer. Okay.

[00:02:34]>> My favorite. And then uh what area?

[00:02:37]I was actually hunting [music] unit four.

[00:02:39]And totally green.

[00:02:42]And what I liked about him being a mentor was he was patient. He was ex-military, in shape. Mhm. And I remember one afternoon we're fiddling around and and he was sitting there having lunch and I walked up and I'm like "What are you doing? You see anything?"

[00:03:00]You know, just excited to be out there and he says, "Yeah."

[00:03:03]"Killed a deer."

[00:03:05]He's like, "Where where?" And he pointed at the bottom of canyon.

[00:03:09]And [snorts] I'm like, "Oh god, let's go. Let's go." Yeah.

[00:03:11]And he packs up his lunch and we start the journey down the canyon. We got to the bottom and and he had it tied up in the shade in the tree.

[00:03:21]And he looks at me and he says, "Okay, what do we do?"

[00:03:24]And not having that hunting and background and you know I'm like watching TV and reading books and well we need to get a big stick and we'll tie his legs on there, you know.

[00:03:40]>> [snorts] >> And he could have laughed at me. Yeah. But he didn't.

[00:03:45]He says, "Okay."

[00:03:46]So we rooted around found a big old stick and we get the deer down and run his legs through and >> [snorts] >> and that didn't work.

[00:03:56]And then it was like, "Okay. All right.

[00:03:58]We can throw him over our back." Carry him out, you know, like you see in the movies.

[00:04:02]And he goes, "Okay."

[00:04:03]>> see you, Jeremiah Johnson.

[00:04:05]>> Oh yeah.

[00:04:05]>> [laughter] >> Well, after several failed attempts that didn't work either. I couldn't carry that buck up up the canyon.

[00:04:14]So I'm sitting there perplexed and he was being patient the whole time.

[00:04:20]And I said, "Okay well, what do we do?"

[00:04:23]He says, "Why don't we quarter it up and then we'll pack it out."

[00:04:28]Okay. Didn't know what that was.

[00:04:31]So we quartered the deer and had packed it all the way up to the top of the canyon. Mhm. We get to the top about midnight.

[00:04:40]Put the animal up in the tree and we're still 5 miles from camp.

[00:04:44]Turns out they were looking for us.

[00:04:47]Picked us up, we went back.

[00:04:49]Got the meat, went back to camp.

[00:04:51]And I swore I quit.

[00:04:55]I was done. I wouldn't go hunt again.

[00:04:56][laughter] He just kicked my butt.

[00:05:00]And he just kind of laughed and the next year he's like "What are you doing?" I said, "I'm sharpening my knives."

[00:05:08]Um are we going again? Kind of got my wind back and and I've been addicted to that lifestyle ever since and passing that on to my sons.

[00:05:19]Um hoping they'll take up that same deal and and it's not just hunting to harvest.

[00:05:24]You know, there's traditional things you do before a hunt.

[00:05:27]There's the actual hunt itself.

[00:05:31]And if you're blessed there's the meat.

[00:05:35]But the experience and all that um is is a big part of it and the most important part of it I think. Harvesting that's gravy.

[00:05:45]You know? Yeah. But being out there and learning and what tracks are, learning where you are in the woods, how to survive in the woods things of that thing and the stories behind it.

[00:05:57]That's that's a big part of the the whole lifestyle.

[00:06:12]So traditionally then so let's say you and I are going to go on a hunt a week from now. What would be the first process you would do?

[00:06:19]Well we got the tags, we got that.

[00:06:23]I'd tell you to stay away from your lady for at least 4 days before the hunt.

[00:06:30]You purify >> [laughter] >> purify yourself that way and then you you know, you have your prayers and your good thoughts about that. Then the night before it'd be either you know, some hunters will use cedar, some will use white corn.

[00:06:42]Um and not only pray for the hunt but all hunters and in the safety and in safe return.

[00:06:49]And then while we're hunting again you're not sleeping or having any intimacy with your your spouse or female, any female.

[00:07:00]And after that and then there's a a process of when you harvest your animal you go through and then after the hunt um after so many days, 4 days uh you would resume being back with your wife.

[00:07:19]Yeah. So I'll I'll just leave that part because some of the it varies on different regions on what they do once they harvest that animal traditionally, how they process it, things like that and I don't want to confuse and start anything between two Well, what what side of the mountain you came from.

[00:07:36]Well, I mean that's kind of the whole purpose of these interviews. It's just to get everybody's um point of view. Yeah. So from your point of view what what's your take? And again as as Daryl said that it's not about saying well, this side of nation's right, that side of nation's right. Up here the nation do this, down here the nation do that. No, it's about sharing stories and personal experiences.

[00:08:01]And um what we've been taught. So uh like I mentioned before, Navajo Nation is a very big uh tribe and spread out so you will have different styles of teaching or different beliefs.

[00:08:16]It's not catastrophically different but there is tweaks in there that make it a little different.

[00:08:24]Yeah, I I've seen um hunted with people from different parts of the res.

[00:08:29]You know, I've seen them turn the animal north, I seen them use cedar in their mouth or uh corn.

[00:08:37]Um of course there's always a a prayer of thanks.

[00:08:41]I've been on a hunt where I couldn't hit nothing.

[00:08:45]And have an animal walk out 30 yards in front and stop and you know, the guy I was with me said that that that is your deer. That was given to you.

[00:08:54]Just easy, one shot, one drop.

[00:08:57]Uh some people will take intestines and put them on um on a bed of leaves or something, you know, as respect. Um so there's just different parts of it but the whole point I think is just respecting the animal, respecting the harvest and giving thanks for what was given to you by the creator. Mhm.

[00:09:22]And so that seems just to be the gist of the whole thing.

[00:09:27]Okay. And then of course you don't take the head home, you don't take the deer home.

[00:09:32]>> [sighs] >> That they say has different effects on the family.

[00:09:38]But then again as hunters we have to comply with fish and wildlife rules in being able to check it in, identify the sex of the animal. Mhm. So I've had traditional hunters when I was an officer bring the animal to a checkpoint.

[00:09:53]And then we do all our paperwork and they'll actually take it back up, finish skinning it, leave the skin and the head in the tree, and just take the meat home. Oh, really?

[00:10:04]>> So, that's one of the things that a lot of traditional hunters kind of came into a compromise with Okay.

[00:10:11]>> with Fish and Wildlife to be able to meet that rule, and then at same time maintain their traditional responsibilities. And that comes down to like everything else in the world, right? It's compromise.

[00:10:21]>> Compromise. Yeah. Okay.

[00:10:38]Every other elder is like you know don't you either you don't take that home. Mhm. Um and then the skin unless you know, when traditionally when they're making a um leather wraps for um for their moccasins.

[00:10:54]Uh-huh.

[00:10:55]>> You know, they would say if an animal is shot, you can't use that. And there's again different >> Oh, okay. So they would skin that and you can take them to a guy who knows how to tan.

[00:11:05]He'll [snorts] tan the leather up for you, but it's just not something you take back to your house.

[00:11:08]>> Oh, okay. So So, do you have any racks hanging up in your house? No.

[00:11:13]I could kill the world record and I'd have to hang it in a bro's house cuz my my grandma would probably roll over in her grave, my mom would whip me again.

[00:11:23]You just can't take them home.

[00:11:25]So, is that why Greg hangs his up at his office?

[00:11:28]>> [laughter] >> He's smart.

[00:11:31]All right, I think we found a loophole for all you hunters. If you have one with a nice rack just take it to work. There you go.

[00:11:38]Friends that will gladly hang a rack. Yeah. I just can't do it.

[00:11:44]When did you start becoming a guide?

[00:11:48]Oh, gosh.

[00:11:50]>> [snorts] >> A long time ago.

[00:11:53]A long time ago.

[00:11:54]I um wanted to guide.

[00:11:59]>> [snorts] >> Really didn't know I knew the gist of it and the idea behind it.

[00:12:04]I wasn't um as proficient as I should have been or should be.

[00:12:11]I didn't know the whole business thing behind it.

[00:12:15]And one of our association leadership um you know, I put in the work. I just I was just flailing around, if you will.

[00:12:25]Mhm. And he took me under his wing.

[00:12:29]Man, I went to school. Mhm. I I learned You can stand on the grass over here. I learned a lot about you know, um customer relations, what a client expects. Mhm. You know, a lot of hardcore scouting. Mhm.

[00:12:45]And all these things, so yeah, I just began to grow from there.

[00:12:50]Um And and I prefer hunting, but Yeah. you know, I like to guide and help Mhm.

[00:12:57]>> clients get you know, some of them come here for can't afford to get a tag and then that's their dream hunt, so Mhm. you know, hunting or or guiding is probably about 90% scouting.

[00:13:08]And giving them that opportunity. No guarantees, but giving them an opportunity to harvest an animal from Navajo, so >> Okay.

[00:13:15]I like that aspect of it. Nice.

[00:13:18]What was What were the lessons that you learned in your early years of scouting?

[00:13:24]>> [sighs and gasps] >> Get up early, stay late.

[00:13:27]Mhm. Uh different areas on the res, the animals some animals will stay up later, you know, up in the high country.

[00:13:34]Lower elevations, they're in bed.

[00:13:36]You know, as the sun's not even broke up yet, they're they're already heading in, so you've got to be there um and be able to glass and and and Right by legal light. Yep. Get one. Yep.

[00:13:47]Before >> legal light is your end seeing what's actually there and if that's an area you want to concentrate on.

[00:13:53]Get home at way after dark cuz right about dark in those lower elevations, you'll see the animals start coming out and you kind of know what's there and whether you want to be there during the hunt or not. Mhm. If not, you know, you're constantly moving, you're finding water food, things like that, so A lot of work. Yeah, yeah. A lot of fun and work.

[00:14:11]>> Mhm. And then uh what was your first that you would consider a uh trophy hunt?

[00:14:18]Gosh.

[00:14:22]Um First hunt was uh auction elk hunt with gentleman out of Canada. That was my first. Mhm. Um went all out, hired a cook had a big tent and everything.

[00:14:36]>> [clears throat and cough] >> He killed a good bull that year. I think the biggest bull on the res that year.

[00:14:41]Um learned a lot of lessons from that hunt that I won't go into. Mhm. Um made me aware of of a lot of things. Mhm. And then I had a gentleman I've been talking to for years about getting a tag here. Mhm. And he finally got the tag. Um he's been hunting with me 12 years now.

[00:14:58]>> 12 years, okay. And he came out and he harvested an animal that was one of his dream hunts.

[00:15:08]And he was able to harvest that here.

[00:15:11]And that was a a deer over 30 in wide.

[00:15:13]Wow. And um So, he's like and not one that scored well, but you know, it was what he wanted. Mhm. And a couple years later, you know, he used to say we're going to get picky now. And he has a threshold of what he'll He's going by score, the amount of inches combined of what an animal how large an animal's antlers are. Mhm.

[00:15:32]And we found an animal that was trophy. Mhm. And we hunted nine straight days after this one particular animal every day. Mhm. And on the last day, he harvested that animal.

[00:15:49]And what was his um weapon? Uh rifle.

[00:15:52]Rifle.

[00:15:52]>> Rifle, yeah. We hunted in in December.

[00:15:55]Mhm. So, um again, that's one of the sacrifices. I'm gone during Christmas cuz his hunt starts right around >> Oh.

[00:16:03]all the way from the 20th, 21st, 22nd to like the 30th. Mhm.

[00:16:07]>> So we're out on Christmas Day. I'm not there when he's opening presents.

[00:16:12]>> opening presents. So, a couple couple times he said, "Let's go late. We'll open his presents." Then we'd take off.

[00:16:17]Yeah. But we hunted that animal nine days and he was able to harvest them on the last day. Nice. I think he scored 237 and 1/2 or 37 in and 1/2 in, so Wow.

[00:16:28]Um We haven't been able to beat that. You know, we try every year. Mhm. But he likes to come out here and he hunts um like I said, this will be his his 12th year. Okay. So, he's he's a returner.

[00:16:39]Um what is the furthest one of your clients have came in from to go hunt here in Navajo res?

[00:16:47]We get a group that comes in from California.

[00:16:50]You know, right on the coast.

[00:16:51]We have group that comes in from a family that comes in from [snorts] Salt Lake City every year. They've been coming since the beginning.

[00:16:58]Um we've had people from I say Texas.

[00:17:03]Even as far as um Missouri coming out.

[00:17:07]Oh, wow.

[00:17:07]>> To to attend the um banquet. Oh, oh, wow.

[00:17:10]>> Yeah.

[00:17:11]Yeah, the banquet. And some of our uh speakers at the expo Idaho um Utah, Nebraska. Mhm. They come down and and and are presenters at our at our expo. So, a lot of people come a long way.

[00:17:25]Um some come for the bidding. Mhm. Um some come just for the vibe, the dinner, watching the auctions, the raffles, yeah. Plus all our locals around here.

[00:17:35]Yeah. No, that was a lot of fun. Um How many other guides are there on the Navajo res that are uh I would say tribal members? Okay. So, it varies anywhere from 20 to 30. Mhm. Um And way back in 2000s um 2004, we established the Navajo Guides Association. Mhm. Now, that is a separate from the pool of guides.

[00:18:02]>> Mhm.

[00:18:03]Guiding was um the quality and and and things were questionable back then.

[00:18:13]Um there wasn't the confidence from Fish and Wildlife that there were enough qualified guides.

[00:18:19]So, several of the guides got together and said, "Let's create an association that where you can begin to help each other to improve. Mhm. Um police ourselves. If we make mistakes or or something, we we take accountability.

[00:18:34]Get that legitimacy and begin to work with Fish and Wildlife to build that relationship and that confidence. Mhm.

[00:18:44]So, there's a lot of guides that are guiding on Navajo. A lot of them are good guides. They're not required to join our organization. Mhm. Um It's it's their choice, but we have we do have our Navajo Guides Association and and we're working and we're fostering a better relationship with Fish and Wildlife. Okay. And supporting them. And and how many founding members of the Navajo Guide Association?

[00:19:07]>> Gosh, I think we started about 10 to 12.

[00:19:12]>> 10 Oh, it's a good start.

[00:19:13]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, it was a good start.

[00:19:15]>> And how many current members right now?

[00:19:17]I think we're about 14.

[00:19:21]Nice.

[00:19:22]We've had We've had to lose a few. Like I said, we police ourselves.

[00:19:25]>> Yeah. Yeah. Um there there are some former members, there's some that don't guide anymore.

[00:19:30]And um every now and then we've we pick up a new member. Okay. Yeah. And then so, how would Okay, so do you have to be a tribal member to join?

[00:19:41]Uh tribal membership is a requirement.

[00:19:44]>> Okay. And then uh how long's the process from stepping into the front door or say, "Hey, I want to join and reach out or join uh what what do I need to do? So, course you'd have to be licensed by Fish and Wildlife to become a guide.

[00:19:59]When you join ours which we hold the um the vote at the end of the banquet. Mhm.

[00:20:04]Uh you're on probation for 1 year.

[00:20:07]Um and in that we watch your how you conduct your guiding business with your clients, the work you put in, evaluate.

[00:20:15]And at the end of that year, your sponsor reports back to the committee and says this is what I observed.

[00:20:22]And then we take a vote on whether to go ahead and make you a full member or thank you for trying. Okay. Yeah.

[00:20:30]Is there any tweaking you have to do in your policies to join?

[00:20:34]Uh no. No, it's pretty much it's you know, we have our bylaws. Mhm. Um it's pretty much and you know, we don't the the association doesn't tell you what to do with your guiding deal. Mhm. But we watch, you know, your your uh professionalism.

[00:20:50]Um things of that nature, the work you put in to make sure you're staying within that standard. Call it a higher standard if you will.

[00:20:57]>> Yeah, like in being an outstanding uh team member.

[00:21:00]>> And that reason because Fish and Wildlife, you know, they want to see they want to know that their guides are out there actually you know, held to a standard if you will.

[00:21:11]>> And then what's the minimal age requirement? Or do you have a certain amount of seasons you've been No. No, you just got to meet Fish and Wildlife's criteria. You got to go through our guide seminar which we hold a day after the banquet.

[00:21:24]Once you meet the criteria, I believe young is 18. Okay. An adult, yeah. Okay.

[00:21:31]And then has that been the youngest you've had one before in the past?

[00:21:34]>> We've Most of them are I would say in their 30s.

[00:21:40]>> 30s, okay. There's a couple that are late 20s, maybe. So, they're at least they're somewhat seasoned. They're they're they're seasoned. They they've had some guiding experience before. Mhm.

[00:21:49]Either worked with um family that were guides.

[00:21:53]But they want to take it to next level, have their own guiding business. Mhm.

[00:21:56]And um you know, some of them have they they'll come to the banquet.

[00:22:02]And then some of them [music] see what's going on, they want to get involved. And that's how they become NGA members.

[00:22:08]Okay.

[00:22:12]We heard it. You could hear it raining like knocking the trees down, too.

[00:22:15]Really?

[00:22:16]>> forest, yeah. That's how we knew it was raining that fast. What's How do you do the online bidding stuff? Well, we've got all of the people interested to register online. We give them a bidder number and then they watch from our side and they make a bid. What's the blitzkrieg for us? Uh I think just I think they're just selling the cards. You buy you get half a card.

[00:22:40]And they'll just draw whatever you know, whatever card you can win that. It's the get out get out of jail card. Oh. In case you don't turn your like your survey cards up that you're supposed to send in 30 days after.

[00:22:54]There you go. Now we got the interview going on.