Bass Reeves, born into slavery in Arkansas in 1838, escaped to Indian Territory (modern-day Oklahoma) during the Civil War and became the first Black US Marshal west of the Mississippi River in 1875, serving for 32 years until 1907; despite being illiterate and facing racial discrimination, he became legendary for his toughness and justice, with historians suggesting he may have inspired the fictional Lone Ranger character.
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154: Lone Ranger [Lawful Good pt.1]Added:
You're listening to Well, I laughed part one of lawful good lone ranger.
Sometimes play the magic word to figure out where our catch up. If you want to start, I'm Grant. That's Maya. Maya, talk your [ __ ] What were you saying?
>> If you don't want to If you don't want to listen to us talk our [ __ ] use the chapter function. Skip to Grant's story.
Um, we were just talking about the audacity of men and Casey told me this story of this one, he's into this one show and he said there's like the lead of this show is kind of a mess and he said like this this person is a mess and I was like the person or the actor and he was like well both because there was this time when one of the seasons came out and this actor was at a dinner with his family and some guy came up and was like, "Oh my god, I love your work. do you mind if like we can take a picture together and like maybe like talk or something? And the actor was like essentially like I'm at dinner with my family like now is not the time. We're not doing that. And I guess the guy like >> kept harassing him >> and the actor ended up after whatever the actor ended up punching her in the face >> and he got sinks.
I was just like well >> and Casey was like well I think he got like into legal altercations for it. He had to pay $1,000 >> in a settlement. And I was like, "Oh, so no one learned anything. I would barely learn anything from that."
>> Yeah. My question is for you, for $1,000, who would you punch? You have to pay $1,000, but then you get one free.
>> You know exactly who I would punch.
>> I think there's a there's a short list of candidates.
>> You know who number one is that list?
>> Yeah, I think so.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, one of the things we're going to see Hades Town soon, uh, in a week. I'm so excited. I also when I whenever I go to see a play or whatever, usually like we know the section of seats that we have, we'll go in and just sit whatever however we line up to go see. I'm not [ __ ] around with that. All right. I'm calling DCPA sometime this week requesting physical tickets that we can pick pick up at will call so that I can arrange who's sitting where. I don't actually care who sits where. I care who sits on either side of me and I'm not [ __ ] around with that [ __ ] and who sits directly behind me and I made sure someone is as far away from me as possible.
>> I would love you, me, my partner.
>> That's what I have.
>> Just kind of cool cool.
>> Yeah. You want to you want to see the seating chart?
>> Sometimes, here's the thing. Sometimes, not sometimes, all the time, I'm a big boy. And why is it that like theaters, opera houses, playh houses, whatever, insist on having the most uncomfortable like small seats, right? We're theater gays. We're big people, you know? This is the seating.
>> I am just tired of bumping into people.
You know what I mean?
>> 100%. It's too much.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So like um I'm fine if I'm bumping into you and like my boyfriend, but like last time I think it was Mulan Rouge, I was full on bumping into this like other woman. So I think I just was fully hoisting myself into like your lap, I think, to try to avoid Yeah, it's so funny. If you had if you had asked me to like create the lineup almost like almost identical >> almost shot by shot, this is what I would have done. Yeah% >> hilarious.
>> Um and also I love physical tickets. I'm like trying to collect more of that memorabilia stuff.
>> Yeah. And I want to have the physical tickets cuz I have our company tickets from that are hanging up there. And now I have our Dracula tickets. Speaking of Dracula.
>> Yeah. Sorry, I just on tickets. I'm trying to move away from virtual as much as possible. I've often times said I would run for Denver City Council on a twoissue platform. Issue number one is if you leave your parking cart in the middle of the parking lot, you're going to jail. Um for as long as it takes you to learn your lesson. You're breaking rocks. Okay. You're you're helping.
>> You have to have a baby in the car before I even consider any other excuse.
>> And then second is you need to be able to get physical tickets when you go to Red Rocks. The fact that it has to be on my app now is so is is radicalizing.
It's it's listen better come out.
>> What party do you think that aligns with?
>> Um no party affiliated kind of like just the the the common sense party is what I'm going to call it. Oh god.
>> Speaking of Dracula, >> Dracula, we saw recently for Grant's birthday, Dracula, A Comedy of Terrors.
And this is just so special to me because also when we went to New York City, when Casey and I went to New York City for Christmas a couple years ago, I I knew I was going to see Hamilton, I knew I was going to see Harry Potter and the Cursed Child. And I was between seeing Hades Town and Dracula, a Comedy of Terrors. And I'm I'm so grateful I saw Hades Town. It's been life-changing.
But seeing Grant experience Dracula Company of Terrors, feeling Grant because he was sitting behind me and just punching me in the back every time something funny happened. He was pushing me this time. It was less punching, but >> um yeah, tell me your thoughts.
>> Um okay, so wonderful. I've only obviously ever seen this version from like our local community theater, not community theater, but our local theater here in Denver. Um, but the script structurally feels like it's meant for a small cla cast that plays multiple parts. Yeah. Like it's one of those things that if you had the stage of the middle school version of it, all those characters who play multiple characters would just all go to one person and you have like three that way. No, it's not.
There's so many bits that >> I was a side charact so she falls out of the window and just goes and comes back around and is >> Sorry, I know none of that means anything to you guys. It was just so funny. And at one point you leaned back when one of the like main cast members was now their like third character and you go it's character actress Marco Martale and nearly wet myself.
>> It's so funny.
>> So funny.
>> And also Dracula, a comedy of terrors has one of those few qualities that plays especially American plays seem almost afraid to acknowledge. Gayness.
Like I don't >> so gay.
>> I like a lot of times I'm going to American theater and I'm watching hands down the straightest media I have seen all week >> and I'm like where are the gays? Where are the boys kissing each other? You know >> I came to watch The Notebook. What do you tell me the man falls in love with a woman?
>> Yes. Exactly. Exactly. I'm sorry.
There's a straight man that's good at storytelling. I think >> good luck. He hasn't asked enough questions to know any of this.
>> I don't think that's American sweetheart Tom Hanks up there. Okay. like I think you need to rewrite the story a little bit. And so Dracula Comedy of Terror is if it's coming to a theater near you, you got to go see it. So funny. Um so so funny. Actually, that was key for me.
>> I'm actually kind of thinking about going back. Maybe not inviting anyone. I might just do like a girls day downtown and go get like a fun little like dinner or whatever and then just kind of go to the theater.
>> It'll be so funny cuz we will have accidentally bought tickets next to each other.
>> 100%. But I also like life's so rich. I actually just need a little bit of like enclosure time sometimes to like fully appreciate.
>> I saw notice so much more the second time around. Also, I'm convinced it was better the second time around just because you and me were there. And I actually think hire us for your comedy performances.
>> I I'm convinced. Yeah, we make comedy performances different just because I start laughing, other people start laughing because my laugh sounds ridiculous. And then Grant really amplifies, >> you know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. No, we often times are like people will be like, "Well, you guys certainly sound like you're having like a good time." We are. We are. It's like the one place in this world that I do not need to apologize for being loud.
Which is like, "That was a funny line. I am going to laugh. I'm sorry that the rest of you like are Shenai Twain and aren't impressed much, >> but like I'm enjoying this." Yes, I laugh and that's appropriate. Unlike what some people do these days, which is Peanut Gallery. Hey, not funny unless it's funny. If it's funny, absolutely.
But if you're a white man, don't don't [ __ ] do it. It was when I went to go see Wicked Part Two and we saw Jonathan Bailey as a scarecrow for the first time and some [ __ ] [ __ ] two rows in front of me went, "Ew, [ __ ] hysterical."
If you want to have sex with straw man version Jonathan Bailey, you don't deserve to have sex with regular man version Jonathan Bailey.
If you're not willing, if you won't see him at his grossest, you don't deserve him at his hottest.
>> Um, so in the world of theater >> theater, >> there's this thing called the jury experience. Have you seen this advertised? I have looked into tickets and it's coming to Denver twice this summer when I'm in nationals and when I'm on vacation with my family.
>> So, I'm happy to send you the information. But the surprise is now lost cuz I did the leg work and I don't get to reap the reward. So, if you want me to send you the link, I'm send Yeah. Well, that's also tough, too, cuz it's like I would love to go to it with you, but I don't think it's it's not a show that's like constantly on tour yet, you know?
>> Yeah, I I have seen the ads for it.
Sorry, I have to buy more streak freezes on my um Dolingo cuz apparently I'm out.
>> The owl just told me.
>> I just think it's so special the way uh at any given moment when you're talking to a woman, two of two things are probably happening. One, they might be on their period. Second, they are worried about their Duolingo situation.
>> My streak is 1300 days.
>> And then you ask, "How are you?" And they go, "I'm good, thanks."
>> This is now one of the longest relationships I have ever had.
>> Yeah. How long is it? Sorry. How long is it?
>> 13. Like 1,360 days or something like that. Like >> that's years of your life.
>> Years. Like I started it before in preparation to go to Paris to visit Tyler. So >> that was pre-occtoberfest for us.
>> Yes. So this relationship like >> how did you surv how did you maintain it during Canada?
>> I don't know. I did though.
>> Incredible. We were just completely without cell phone service for like a week.
>> I had enough cell phone service to get a Dolingo done.
>> Hey guys, I got to go get some donuts and my Dolingo done real quick. I'll be on the other side of camp.
>> I think I was able to do it like when we were at like the the center area. You know, >> a camp so large you could have housed like Alexander the Great's army at it and you're like, I'm just going to wander over to the food court.
>> Yeah, the food court and sit underneath the tree of raining lights.
Um, second thing, my um, boyfriend and I were talking recently and I was like, "Yeah, actually one of the things I really appreciate about you is like we both have these like really big lives that we each get to like step into, which is super cool cuz I was talking to a person I hadn't seen in a while and we were both new relationships or blah blah blah." And we're, you know, talking about each other and I was like, I guess I hadn't realized, but before you, like basically everyone I dated was just like a house guest. like they just visited my world and they just kind of settled in there and house guests get annoying regardless of how much you like them. So I was like so like I've really like had a chance to like I've I've enjoyed this blend and he's like yeah I know I go to way more theater productions now than we're dating >> and I think that's good.
>> Yeah. I mean we're averaging basically one a month at least >> and I want to keep that going. I also realized Next to Normal is currently playing and I'm like I I don't know how I missed this. one of my friends who coaches at a local school here. Went to it, loved it. Said he cried three times before intermission.
>> I've been getting a lot of Next to Normal content and slowly have been like introducing myself to the the um playlist or or the score and I just know as soon as I get into it, it's going to be another Death Becomes Her.
>> Find another find an affordable ticket.
>> I know, but it ends um May 3rd.
>> Oh, so right before I want you to know there's not a single evening currently.
cuz I I didn't even know it was here and I guess it's been here for a month and I found it out like 2 days ago and I was like well [ __ ] me.
>> Listen, much like your favorite Subaru auto body shop, I am taking appointments 3 weeks out right now.
>> I am too. Honestly, >> I scheduled a meeting for um the district coaches and normally it's like a super collaborative process that I engage in to try to find a date that's good for everyone.
>> Not this time. I was like I have not. is literally the only time it happens. So if you make it, you make it.
>> A coach reached out and was like, I can't make it that day. Can we reschedule it? Well, actually, I said this. I was like, we can certainly reschedule it, if you're comfortable leading it. Like I don't need to be the one that lead it. It's just technically first responsibility is mine's leaded.
But okay, so the second half of that story where he was like, "Yeah, I go to a lot more plays now that we're dating each other." And the expectation was like, "Zo Grant, like what part of my life have like you stepped into?" And I go, "Yeah." And like drag race, >> I get to go to gay bars way more often now that I have a gay boyfriend.
>> I love I love the two gay men in my life, but they are not, "Let's go to a gay bar."
>> One of them is like, "Let's go out into the woods and not have contact with anyone ever." And the other one is like, "I'm sorry, I'm in Malaysia."
>> One of them, it's the first one, it's Tyler. um is like my body is a temple and alcohol is literally a poison. Why would I put that in my body? And >> and I'm like I that's why >> a factually good statement and I think we should go.
>> A factually true statement and promise.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Take me out. That's I cuz I enjoy the taste of whiskey and I'm the first in my entire family's lineage to have like a pretty good handle ON IT.
YEAH. AND the other one, well, >> yeah, the other one's good. Rarely actually in town, you know, but >> he just happens to show up. Not on theme, by the way.
>> We had Grant's birthday party.
>> It was good.
>> Yeah, we had this. Our first recording since Oh, that's fun.
>> Yeah. Um, dear listener, his theme was seeing double cuz he turned 33. And >> I put on a bald cap to dress up as Grant. I ended up looking a little bit like Pitbull. Actually, a lot more like Pitbull than I wanted to. But, uh, Jacob and Casey really did pull off the Grant look.
>> Um, we, my boyfriend and I stepped out onto my deck, which is on the second floor at the front of my house. Um, and we'll get into what we were dressed in a second, but it was like part of the bit.
And so, we stepped up to say hello. And because we were up and there was like a there was both an angle and a distance when you guys walked out for like a second. I I like I know factually they didn't shave their heads, but this is incredibly accurate.
>> From far enough away, the bald caps were so realistic.
>> Oh yeah.
>> I could not stop giggling when we were putting those bald caps on. It It was incredible. Casey was like, "You're never going to get me to put one of these on again." And I was like, "You didn't say you wouldn't put one on again.
>> Sit your ass down.
>> Get in the makeup chair. We have 5 hours before we go, so we're already running behind."
>> It literally like I was like, it it'll take like an hour max to get these bald caps on. It took an hour and 10 minutes >> for all three of you or one person?
>> All three of us. Yeah. Cuz we were all kind of doing it simultaneously, which also >> And that's the FOMO in me, too. I'm like, "Thank you so much for the surprise. That is meaningful to me." The idea of all three of you being in a bathroom without me being there putting on bald caps, I'm so jealous.
>> In my living room, we have like one one mirror by the front door, one mirror that's like above the record player, and then the bathroom. And so we were all kind of rotating between them as we went to each other to ask for help and then go to a different one.
>> My bathroom in my primary bedroom at my house is so good for that big mirror, two sinks, plus that counter. we wouldn't have gotten the reaction of you almost collapsing in laughter on your balcony. That was worth it to me.
>> Well, because my boyfriend and I, we went as um >> doctors, AI generated president doctors or which is not what the name Amazon gave the kits. Um let's just see if you can figure out who I might have been dressed as, you know, and then tell me who you voted for in the 2024 presidential election. Well, I'll be able to tell you, but um so it's this white very elegant, very breathable robe, almost linenlike, and then just like a red shawl that goes down past your waist and then this really niche, really cool, almost retro rope belt that like dangles a little. And then cuz you always got to accessorize, it came with just like a cane, which is like who doesn't love like a little prop that I immediately put down somewhere. So based off that description, see it most of the night.
>> Cane, lenin like kind of robe, red shawl past my waist, a Leonza kind of rope belt. Do I sound like a doctor and a first aid worker or >> hair if that helps?
>> Or do I sound like Jesus?
Wow.
>> We just The inspiration to get us there was my boyfriend has great hair and >> he looks like Jesus with his hair.
>> So I was like, let's pick an outfit that I can wear a wig that matches your hairstyle and then that's like that's funny.
>> Grant changes when he puts on a wig.
>> I really do.
>> The way he holds himself is so much different. Lyd and I were cracking up the entire night. Like what? Why are you holding your hand like this?
>> Cuz hold the hair back cuz it kept getting in my mouth. Well, >> um, and so we we purchased something online that was like Jesus costume, whatever. I felt good about purchasing it because at least two of the reviews were like, "This was great for my church's production of Blank." And I was like, "Amazing.
>> That's all I needed." Actually, >> that was our intention as well.
>> Um, and so then I didn't tell you this.
FaceTimed my mom. Mom, I love you.
FaceTimed my mom right before the party started and she was like, "Oh, wow. You guys are." And I was like, "Were you blah blah blah blah?" And she's like, "Oh, okay." And I go, "And it works out extra well cuz I'm turning 33 and that was the juice of got Jesus got crucified." And my mom goes, "There will be no making fun of the crucifixion."
And in my mind, I'm like, "We're Lutheran. It doesn't even really matter to us."
>> Also, like where who who was making fun of the crucifixion? wanted to be like, "Listen, listen. Mama, mama, listen.
Mama boots down girl. Mama, I you I'm confirmed. Okay, I have a membership card.
>> I could take communion at a Lutheran church right now.
>> You decided when I was baby that I was going to be a part of this." And then again at 13 through some immense social pressure made sure I committed myself to life for this. So, >> and made me pick a favorite Bible.
>> Yeah. Yeah. And then write a speech about it. So, I think if anything, I've warranted 5 hours of like not even all that blasphemous. I'm not not going around turning people's waters into this costume was which would have been hilarious by the way. Uh, and this costume had been purchased by various churches for their very >> So, I mean, you're you're supporting a small religious business. I think >> I do think the most offensive my costume got the entire night >> Yes.
>> was someone brought a cake, which was really good. It was so good.
>> We lit a candle and we sang happy birthday and I blew out the candle and then I reached my arms out and I said, "My body given for you. Eat this and remember."
>> Yeah. And then you started cutting it and getting mad that no one would take it. And >> Oh, yeah. It was a giant cake and I don't really do sweets. So, it was a great party.
>> The way Lydia called me like the day before and was like, "What kind of cake does Grant eat?" And I was like, "Uh."
And then just like brilliant minded. I was like, "He likes the one from Whole Foods."
>> Yes, I do. Yes, I do. Yes. Chantelli Chantelli.
>> The Chantelli. The Whole Food Chantelli cake. And she was like, "Okay, what flavor is that?" I was like, >> "Chantelli >> vanilla with whip frosting and whole bberries."
>> I think it's like almondy, too, is what cuz Lydia Googled it on the phone. She also called me when I was stepping into the shower and I saw it and was like, I could take this in the shower. And then I stepped out of the shower fully naked to take this call with Lydia where she was like, >> "Please tell me it's a FaceTime."
>> No, no, no, no. But my friend, she was like, "My friend wants to bake him a cake and I don't know what to tell him."
And I was like, "Not chocolate." And that's all I got.
>> Yeah. Chocolate would have been too sweet. The strawberry cake with a vanilla frosting was so perfect.
>> We ended up We were like, "Chantinelli feels like aggressively fancy to ask a random person to make. So maybe fruit."
And so that's that's where we >> last year I got the large Chantanelli cake had exactly one and a half slices.
Said, "Wow, that's enough sweets for me for basically half the year." And then you brought me away. It was actually >> Hey, do you still have that plastic bowl by the way? That clear plastic bowl?
>> I think I probably gave it back. I I can look, but I think I probably gave it back to you that same night.
>> I'm guessing props, but in case you find it, I'm missing one. I have a ton of deli containers you can have instead.
>> It's not the same.
>> I know. I don't think so cuz I've recently reorganized our kitchen and I feel like I would have seen it, but I'll let you know if one pops up.
>> I trust you.
>> Yeah.
>> Um I just love that and I'm not I'm not taking this the wrong way at all. I don't think anyone else's birthday in our friend group causes the same kind of >> organization. Stress.
>> It's the word you're looking for is stress.
>> Okay. But also at the same time, I think I'm offering something unique, different, and like, you know, no one else is hosting themed dress up birthday parties, you know?
>> I'm sorry. What do you think I did for my 25th birthday?
>> Okay, but you provided the costumes.
>> Exactly.
>> And I think I gave you a shout out for that party. And I also think that was two years ago, [ __ ] >> Was two years ago, but I didn't have anyone show up. Not on theme.
Um, so it was um >> it was a good birthday.
>> Start to finish great birthday. Um, there was I'm going to keep this person completely nameless. You wouldn't even know them. I think it's like from a different part of my life. Showed up pretty late and so they were the last ones to leave. That was fine. But because this person showed up pretty late, they they weren't there for when some of the presents were unwrapped. And so literally collected a big pile of like the little shooter bottles of alcohol on my kitchen island and was like, "Hey yo, can I have some of these?" And I looked at him and I go, "My birthday present." Like, and he goes, "Oh [ __ ] [ __ ] my bad. SORRY.
>> WELL, >> now I want you to know there's a decent chance almost all of those will still be in my fridge when the Pride party rolls around."
>> And that's when they'll come in handy.
You never buy shooters for yourself. You buy shooters for the event or the ski lift, >> right? There's a couple of Irish creams that might get used in the next couple days. But >> I also just love a classy shooter bottle. If you're an alcohol dispenser or whatever, just know if you have a little glass shooter bottle, chances are Casey's actively talking me out of buying it. Like, >> do you just want to like fill it up with like sand?
>> Like a like I don't know why. Like I know I shouldn't be keeping it, but I like I want to put a single flower in it, you know? Like that's adorable to me.
>> For those of us who have never tuned into the uh visual portion of this on YouTube and just done it online, um >> Maya likes a little trinket >> and more. I don't know if you saw there's Oh gosh, where did they go? I got Oh no, there's a Nashville one behind you. It's a little microphone key looking one.
>> Okay. And then um >> Mhm. right there.
>> Yep. And did I put them all behind you?
What the [ __ ] >> There's the one I got you from Boston.
>> Yeah. Oh, the one next to the that one.
The one next to that one.
>> Yep. Is from Tula Falls in Georgia.
>> Oh, cute.
>> Where we went hiking.
>> And there might be one more over there that I can't know. No, >> I don't know. It's over there somewhere, but I got a few more.
>> Um last birthday stories I want to share. Um, in addition to a costume party, which was so fun, at one point I turned to my partygoers and I announced, "Attention guests, we are now going to begin a scavenger hunt. Whoever can find the eight different pieces of heated rivalry memorabilia my boyfriend gave me will win a prize." And the people >> the way Lydia Lydia was born for that moment.
>> Like there were some people who didn't even pause to listen cuz as soon as they heard Scavenger Hunt they were like I'm out. I'm kind of that person. Like I'm not really interested in doing that. Um others however were like 100% I am locked in. And um I was like you have to have a photo of each of the items to validate that you have seen the item and you know where it is. Um, and so very funny, my friends descend across the house, right? There's only like two or three on the uh second floor, the main floor where the party was. People are downstairs, people are going upstairs, and upstairs I have like my bedroom, the guest bedroom, and then this like room that I've turned into my office.
>> And people are coming back. And it's so funny to me because the person who wins will be the first person to fully violate my privacy and just go into my own personal private closet cuz that is where the last two items were. like everyone else was scavenging everywhere and of course it was Lydia.
>> And I could have lowered the number. I could have lowered the number and said six and like just had it been the publicly available stuff. He got me two like heated rivalry shirts. One that says um come with me to the cottage and the other one is Connor Story and Hudson Williams and it's that photo where Connor's or Hudson's licking conversation, you know, whatever it is, but it's a great you've seen it on on the internet. It's those two shirts like again still pretty harmless. Um, and you know how type A I am, like everything's put away.
>> Goes into its space.
>> If there's something that I am trying to hide, you will not find it unless I instruct you as to where to find it kind of thing.
>> Yeah, that's that's actually pretty true.
>> Kind of who I am. I know where it is. I know where it should still be. Anyways, so I was like, the winner of this will be the first person to violate my trust and walk straight into my closet in my bedroom and just start going through things. And it was Lydia.
>> Of course it was. Of course it was. Cuz the only other person that was like almost with her with was Tyler. I think there's no way he was going to do that.
>> Um, so that actually segus perfectly into my Go ahead. One of my things today. Do you know what today is?
>> Uh, Sunday, April 24th, 25th, 26th.
>> About the one-year anniversary of when Connor Story and Hudson uh, >> Williams >> Williams were announced as the stars of Heated Rivalry.
>> Wait, really?
>> Yeah. I saw that like 20 minutes ago.
That means we're like three months away from me first learning about and then that means we're four months away from me being like >> it's your whole personality to watch this.
>> I believe in love >> the way I'm I'm still getting credit for Chapel Round to a lesser degree CMAT and then still getting a lot of credit for being like the first pole rever for a lot of our listeners about heated rivalry >> and that's fine. I will tear you down every time.
>> It's a lot of pressure to be on the cutting edge of culture though. It's just it's a lot of pressure.
>> So anyway, um >> imagine being Connor and Hudson and like a year ago >> they were waiters.
>> Yeah. Waiter at Spaghetti Works is also a star in a Crave Show >> like in the span of one year going from that to now being on the red carpet having a glam bot taken of you is I can't even begin to fathom. And so between Heated Rivalry and then Shitz Creek was paid for by a Canadian television company, Pop TV, >> Canadians, you're you are gayer than America Broadway than American Broadway shows are right now.
>> We got nominated as like a a finalist for one Canadian podcasting award.
>> We did.
>> Yeah. We didn't end up >> uh making the final final round, but um I was like, damn, we should get more into Canadian media. Yeah. Um, the other thing is I've now changed it because I remembered so the theme of Grant's birthday party was seeing double and I could not think of >> back to my party.
>> I could not think of a birthday gift. I initially thought of I was going to get you like a Follow me down this rabbit hole, please.
I was like, Grant loves reading, but he reads like a lot of smut and sometimes that's like not acceptable to like have around and like to to just like read openly and I know sometimes he feels weird about that. So, like, what if I could buy him like an older generation of like a Kindle or something? Um, and I was like, and I looked up a Kindle and said, "Never mind." And they're kind of expensive. I was like, "Maybe Lydia would go in with me." And then I never got around to it. And then I was like, "Wait, wait, but what if I could get him like a a cover for his book so that like you couldn't see the the the cover of it, but then he cuz he likes reading the physical book instead." And so I bought this like book cover that was like you could change the shape the size of it to any book and then it just ended up being really bulky and I was like I could buy this for him. He would think it's cute but then he would like literally never use it. Um yeah, I still have it if you want it. Uh yeah. Um and then on one fateful evening while I was visiting my parents in Georgia, an Instagram ad happened across my feed that was custom temporary tattoos.
So I put >> So I put all of Grant's birthday fund money, all $50 of it into buying an expedited shipping temporary tattoos of Grant's face. And that was his birthday gift. And then I was like, how funny would it be if I could get as many people to wear his face on on his on their bodies before Grant notices? Grant noticed, didn't say anything. WHAT THE [ __ ] IS THAT? give me a reaction. It's so annoying. I try and do something nice and Grant's like, "So that was weird."
Anyway, >> so I saw on like one person I was like, "Huh, nice." But like just one on- one person, I was like, "Okay, whatever."
>> I know. Because as soon as that happened, everyone ran to me and were like, "HE SAW THAT ONE. HE SAW THAT ONE." AND I WAS LIKE, "OKAY, everyone chill." All right. Like >> also like give him enough time. Like Grant's Grant's going to drink enough that he's just going to be in his own world. Anyways, I will say two things on that. First on the tattoos, you managed to put bas you managed to give my boyfriend basically an entire sleeve of my face >> because I texted him as well as the Bohawks and Casey and was like, this is what I'm doing. And he was like, I want to incorporate his face >> into my entire tattoo sleeve. And I was like, I'm cutting out his face.
>> You did. And >> not my favorite thing. At the end of the evening, we went upstairs to get ready and I was like, what is this? Scrub yourself off before you get into bed.
scrub this off. Um, and second on the like Kindle SLbook hideaway thing, whatever. So, kind. Here's the main reason why I wouldn't want something like that.
>> Um, it's usually I would I'm assuming using it when I'm like at work or on a work trip. And I very famously am not trying to be all horned up on those trips. I'm usually overwhelmed with responsibilities.
>> My idea was on family vacations.
>> Oh, no. Well, I just read it right in front of them. I'm a grown adult man with two degrees. Like, I'm going to do whatever I want. Okay. We want to talk about my other siblings issues. I'm happy to do so. I'm going to read The Nightmare Before >> How narcissistic he was and got him a birthday gift that reflected his own face back to him. So, I feel pretty good about it. I got I got a tattoo on every single person on that at that party, y'all. Every single person. The remnants which I found in my pantry um the unused ones are now in a ceramic bowl that a student made for me. So a student made me a ceramic bowl and now inside that bowl is a bunch of tattoos about of me that someone else also made for me and I'm like so iconic.
>> I considered giving you the the remainders from when I cut out the face cuz I thought it would be funny and then I threw them away cuz they were cluttering my counter.
>> I would have thrown them away too. Yeah.
Yeah. They they were not super useful.
But um that's all I had. There is one headline I wanted you to see.
>> Okay.
>> That I came across.
>> Did you read this out loud?
>> Yeah. It happened in Leadville.
>> A marijuana dispensary caught fire in Colorado, blanketing blanketing blanketing half the town in smoke. Um this was in Leadville.
>> Yeah.
>> But that town's already so high.
>> I know. Leadville is like the highest populated town in the continental United States.
>> It's the highest elevation.
>> Look how much smoke that is.
>> Yeah. From a fire, I'm assuming from a building being on fire.
>> Stank.
>> I bet the town smelled awful.
>> Yeah, that town's got to be so loud right now. Um Leadville is one of my favorite has one of my favorite breweries. And this is the last thing.
Um because it's called periodic brewing and the shortening of for it is just PB and PB is the atomic symbol for lead.
Full [ __ ] circle. The way my little mind's brain was like, "Oh my god, >> this is the peak of everything."
>> That's amazing. I love that so much.
>> Cuz it's lead in Leadville and >> science is all around us. It's called what brewing?
>> Periodic brewing.
Yeah, I think so. Yeah. Period.
>> So, what classes of minds is the founders from? Have you done enough research? Because that's a Colorado Minds graduate thing to do, >> honestly. Yeah. I have no idea though.
>> You want to get into your story?
>> Yes. But I'm going to start off with a question first. You're actually going to get two. The first one, the one that you didn't prepare for.
>> Oh [ __ ] >> Where does the whole like cuz today's theme is lawful good.
>> Yes. So, where does that >> Dungeons and Dragons >> say more?
>> Is this a genuine question? Yes. Oh, okay.
>> I don't know. I just I've seen the chart and I were legitimately talking about this earlier.
>> Good, lawful, bad, lawful, neutral, chaotic, good.
>> I think it's a way to characterize cuz do you know the like how you play Dungeons and Dragons?
>> Yeah, there's like characters and stuff.
>> You create your own character. So, you can I don't know necessarily the mechanism of how you create it. pick the like species or the race or whatever and then you can kind of pick where on that uh chart it falls. So it can either fall on like there's neutral, so neutral good, neutral neutral or true neutral and then neutral evil. And then there's the good version of all of those. So lawful good, neutral good, evil or chaotic good and then chaotic evil, chaotic neutral, chaotic.
>> There's neutral uh chaotic and lawful.
Yes. and good, neutral, or bad under all of those. Okay, well, that's good to know. Okay, so today's theme is lawful good, and I feel good about that. Um, for '9s kids, uh, Kim Possible is probably a lawful good, and her sidekick, Ron Plausible, is probably a chaotic good.
>> Yeah. Yeah, I would say that's that's probably fair.
>> So then the actual question, I texted you beforehand, >> really relieving you that you and I weren't doing the same story today.
>> Yeah.
>> You grew up in Colorado, making you a westerner. Yeah.
>> What um what was the perception of the old west of you know the west back in the day as a person who was like living in it? What did your like elementary and middle school education focus on?
>> Um a lot of it was like prairie living. You know, I I remember in elementary school we did like a whole day where we would learn how to make butter from scratch and we would dress up like in like dresses and we would learn uh not maybe the hoown. No, it was like a the square dance and then it was like a whole event and at one point I dressed up as Saka Jia I think and we did presentations based on >> different time just a different time.
very very uh we all had to dress up as uh people from that time frame and then we also went like panning for gold and stuff and I don't feel like the atrocities or the negative effects of like manifest destiny were really addressed super well in my elementary education. Not until definitely like middle school, high school age. Um >> um was there a lot of talk on like individuals either outlaws or law men or like the way like life was like for the average white American out west?
>> Yeah. Yeah. I think it was like I mean you can still go to like Golden here and see the facades and like the in the mountain towns the facades of a lot of the like original main streets of these mining towns are still up.
They're just now like chilies or something.
So, you do see a lot of that. Uh >> and and excuse me in all of these towns.
It's slightly overpriced. Steak and burgers place. Um we make our own soaps.
It smells like incense in here.
Patagonia. Oh, actually the incense were the crystals at the crystals next door.
Patagonia.
>> Yeah. And then same generic shop, >> same generic brands and designs for realer.
>> Yeah. different town name on them. Um, that's where I buy my bottle opener keychains from. And then actually really quaint coffee shop bakery combo.
>> Absolutely killing it. You have And you've also, by the way, accidentally found this town's gay club. So, enjoy.
>> They're right on top of each other. Just like that.
>> There's one town one bar you can wear a hot dog costume. Only if you lose a bet, though.
>> I love this town. I love this state.
Okay, so this is all good. So, we're going to do um a little bit of Western history today. We're going to find out about one of um America's famous law men, enforcers of the law. Um a deputy US marshal, >> okay?
>> In a territory that, you're going to hear me say it several times cuz this was the name of the territory the federal government had given it, but it was called Indian Territory at the time.
And they went back and forth between calling it Indian territory and then calling it like pre Kansas and pre- Oklahoma.
>> I'm choosing to continue to use the word Indian territory because the reason why it's called Indian territory is cuz the federal government has forced every Native American east of the Mississippi into this area. So it's like actually full of displaced Native Americans, which is also part of the story as well.
>> Okay. Okay. So, we're going to learn about one of America's probably most successful um US law men and marshall in the like unsettled wild wild west. But get this, Maya, he's black.
>> What?
>> I know. which is a really cool and really interesting kind of like update or challenge to our contemporary view of like who this time >> everyone knows that law men back in the day were just Dennis Quaid the actor Dennis Quaid that was who right exactly exactly um and then um oh gosh Dennis Quaid has a a naturally blonde wife who has who for whatever reason keeps her prairie dresses cinched, right? Um, and they they never swear and they always go to church, but they're like always gruff and love each other, you know? And that is that is the West as told to you by ABC Family. Also, I'm sure at one point, >> not Westworld, though.
>> They have a headstrong hot daughter who has an inappropriate relationship with her father and a son who is literally perfect and can do no wrong and is just begging for the responsibility he's ready for, right? Later in life, just describing Yellowstone right now. And also Land Man.
>> Yeah, I was going to say >> the two shows I have to watch with my family every time I go home.
>> I saw a clip from Land Man the other day and now I'm interested in watching it.
>> Um I watched an episode of Land Man with my parents over like Thanksgiving or Christmas and the episode was so funny and my dad turned to me and he goes, "It's really not a comedy. You shouldn't expect this in the next episode."
>> They Your parents always do that, right?
They're like They're always just like, "Well, this is not what it's usually."
And it's just like this can't happen every time you introduce me to a show.
>> For their demographic of like age and like regionality and like life experiences, my parents are on the cutting edge of culture for like their demographic.
>> They really are though.
>> Um, >> okay. Today we are going to talk about the life and times, the legacy of Deputy US Marshal Bass Reeves. B A S S R E E V E S.
>> That's a powerful name.
>> It is kind of. It's complicated.
>> Oh, >> let's get into it.
>> Okay.
>> Okay. Bass Reeves was born into slavery in Crawford County, Arkansas in 1838.
He was named after his grandfather, Bass Washington.
However, as was the customary tradition at the times, Reeves's last name is derived from the white family that enslaved him, not the biological family that would also raise him.
>> So that means Reeves, sorry, Bass Reeves was born into enslavement on the Reeves plantation, okay, in Arkansas.
>> He was enslaved by Arkansas state legislator William Steelgreaves.
So, I'm going to pause or reeves. Sorry.
I'm just going to pause here real quick, too.
>> Our image of slavery is usually informed by like massive giant plantations, right? That we would have seen in like Jango Unchained, right? Like that it's a 500 enslaved person factory farm, concentration camp, like essentially.
While obviously those dominated like the social and economic life of the South, it was actually not really the reality of most both enslaved uh black Americans and white Americans at the time.
>> Very very rare for a family to own like more than five enslaved people. I shouldn't use the word owned. Very rare for a white family to enslave like more than five black Americans. Okay.
>> By the time we get to 1860 when the Civil War begins, the like 21st century value of every enslaved black person is essentially $20,000.
And so for a family to have even five enslaved black Americans, the southern economy recognized it as having like $100,000 worth of capital and like today's money floating around that because you could always sell enslaved black people. you could basically instantly liquidate.
>> Jesus.
>> And because the United States is expanding westward and that kind of settlement involves like a lot of manual labor, you basically have an object that only devalues because it's gotten old or had a disabling an event.
>> The most understandable version of devaluing to us, yeah, is literally understanding how our bodies >> correct. And so >> I'm only adding that context because from what I gather Bass Reeves did not get born onto a very large plantation system even though William Steel Reeves is an important person in Arkansas.
Arkansas in 1838 is still like very unsettled. Like for instance, it's only been a possession of the United States for less than 50 years by that point.
It's part of the Louisiana Purchase.
>> Yeah. Let me like squeeze your guys.
>> We have photos of Bass Reeves, a man who was born at the same time like William like Louiswis and Clark are like still alive, you know, just like to compress history for you.
>> Dude, that's I Wow. Okay.
>> Sorry. I always love that kind of stuff.
And you're such like a willing and interested audience in that kind of thing. head. Every every historical story I hear happens in like an isolation, >> right, >> cube like I aside from presidents, which I now know overlap and and all of that [ __ ] But um yeah, >> the author of this book that I base a part of it on, and then his book ends up becoming like the cornerstone when it comes to scholarship on Bass Reeves, his name's Art, I think, Brunson. We'll get to his name later. He does interviews with people who have oral histories to share about their time with Bass Reeves.
Granted, these people are hella old when he interviews them and they were hella young and Bass Reeves was super old when they have these memories, but like there's this ability for a modern American today author to talk to people that uh interacted with Bass, >> right?
>> Okay. So, um, when Basses is about 8 years old in 1846, the Reeves family moves from Arkansas to Grayson County, Texas. There Reeves, as is customary, Bass becomes the servant essentially of his enslavers son. So, he starts to work now for George Reeves.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> George Reeves will be a Texan. He'll be a legislator. He'll actually get so important that he will become speaker of the Texas House of Representatives. And that's super important because you are now speaker of the House of Representatives of a state that was its own country 10 years ago.
>> Whoa. Whoa.
>> Um, and then in 1860, George Reeves joins the Confederate Army. 1860, 1861.
>> George Reeves joins the Confederate Army.
>> Isn't that late? Um, no. The con the conflict begins in January 1861.
It gets triggered by the election of Abraham Lincoln in November of 1860.
>> Okay.
>> Bass Reeves is 22 >> when George Reeves goes off to the Confederate army.
>> Right.
>> George brings Bass with him.
>> Wait, sorry. Did the Emancipation Proclamation get signed at the beginning of the civil of the conflict?
>> Like 1863.
>> Wow. Okay. Yeah. In my head, years mean nothing to me. Numbers mean a lot to me.
And 60 and 63 are way too close together for my head to conceptualize that the Civil War happens in between them.
>> And not to like hella hella complicate things. Um, but like civil war starts. Abraham Lincoln initially is like, "No, Southerners, like this isn't about slavery. We don't want it to expand, but I'm not going to work to like end slavery." And the South is like, "This fight's been coming. we don't trust you, blah blah blah. And then those early stages of the war, it's really tight. And Abraham Lincoln is trying to keep Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware in the Union. And all four of those states allow to some version at least slavery. And so he doesn't make it about slavery. And then he kind of comes up with the Emancipation Proclamation as a way of like attacking the South's economic heart and also help satisfy an abolitionist. And so in 1863, he passes the Emancipation Proclamation, which says if you're an enslaved black American >> in a currently rebelling state, you are now free. So if you're enslaved in Missouri, Kentucky, Maryland, and Delaware, you're still enslaved. But if you're enslaved in the Confederate States, you're free.
>> What the [ __ ] >> Does that make sense?
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I think we've talked about that too because Washington DC got that emancipation like a year prior or something like that and then Yeah. And then because he was assassinated then it was Yeah. Okay. I'm back.
>> Okay.
>> I think >> so civil war starts slavery is still happening everywhere and in those early years of the civil war um it's not like Bass can just like yeah I'm free and I'm going to run away and etc etc. Mhm.
>> If you are listening to the story right now and you're like, "Okay, so just as I'm following this, Bass Reeves is an enslaved black man who at the age of 22, like physically fit, of sound mind and body, gets taken away from the like plantation that is observing him and is like >> with the Confederate army like on the march in like foreign places. Like why doesn't he just escape?" And it's like, well, cuz he's surrounded by like thousands of armed white men who are there to kill unioners and also like would not be opposed to like racial violence, but also for the enslaved to escape >> requires like an intimate knowledge of your own regional area and an access to the Underground Railroad. To be taken out of that into a brand new unfamiliar environment makes it way harder cuz where do you go?
>> Yeah. You have no idea. Was it his choice to enlist?
>> No. Okay.
>> Also, he's not fighting for the Confederate army. He's like he's like a camp servant essentially. So, George will be off fighting and >> he'll be there.
>> Correct.
>> Like a squa, >> which is also weird. Sorry, this is all like kind of subplot to the main story, but you know how much I love to build a world.
>> This was common on both sides. Not necessarily to have like enslaved workers at the base camp, but like >> let's say you were like a shoe makers apprentice up north, right? In like Cincinnati, right?
>> And you get drafted. Okay, you have two options now. You can leave your wife and daughter in Cincinnati unattended and try to send money back home when you have access to the post office. Or >> you can kind of close up shop, sell some stuff, maybe have a neighbor watch some stuff while you're gone >> and your wife and daughter can follow you on the campaign trail >> and can cook for you and stuff and like mend your clothes and things like that.
>> Oh, so it becomes a family affair >> a little bit. Yeah. Wow. And for the South, it becomes a look at all the enslaved people we have affair.
>> Cool.
>> But you'll love this.
>> Obviously, naturally, like of course this happened. Like, duh. Uh enslaved black people would flee when they got the chance.
>> Wow. I wonder why.
>> Especially when because everyone's speaking English in these camps. They heard the Confederate soldiers be like, "Yes, well, you know, the Yanks are just over there beyond that ridge." And tomorrow they'd attack. That night they'd be like, "RUN.
>> IT'S THAT RIDGE. GO. Let's go." I HEARD I HEARD IT.
>> And then the North would be like, "Hi, welcome. Where are they?" And there's how many of them? And they think they're going to attack when? And there's a river we can cross over there. Thank you. Come on in. Now, not always. I want to It's not act like the the Union was some like great liberating force of like racial equality and whatnot, >> but that's hilarious.
>> Yeah. a hu like the South was not helped by the fact that the people they enslaved and brought with them immediately ran and >> so naive to the fact that they were speaking loudly and plainly their own plans.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And so Bass Reeves is with the white person that's enslaving him, George Reeves, the son of the man that was enslaving Bass when Bass was born. And kind of marching around with the Confederate army. They go from Texas to like Louisiana, Mississippi, and then they fight a series of battles in Arkansas.
>> And this is what's super crucial.
>> Bass knows Arkansas.
>> That's where he was raised.
>> He's going to still know some people up there, right?
>> He accidentally gets brought back into territory he's more familiar with.
wobble.
>> And then additionally, very interestingly, Arkansas is right next to this completely ungoverned and kind of lawless area known as Indian Territory.
>> Right.
>> Modern-day state of Oklahoma, which shares a very long border with Arkansas.
>> Let me get a map out for you.
>> I just saw you have two strokes. I I have never once processed that Oklahoma and Arkansas sheriff order.
>> Okay, so Jesus.
>> So here's >> I hope you enjoyed watching that in real time, listener.
>> So there's Arkansas and then to the left with that very long border.
>> He really is just right there, isn't he?
Oh my god.
Wow, I did not see that coming.
>> When people are like, "How on earth is this a comedy podcast?" I'm like, "Well, why does it never start?"
>> or basic geography or really anything.
That's nuts. I always mix up Alabama and Arkansas as well. And so that >> don't act like that's the craziest thing to mix up >> in my opinion. Other than the fact that they both start with a, they do not sound the same and are close in the sense that they're in the south, but not like >> all eye states are the same to me. All the eye states, including Ohio for some reason.
>> I think there's a chance. Am I right on this? Yeah. New Orleans is closer to the tip of Florida than Memphis is to Nashville.
>> Wow. I know.
>> That's wild. fun with geography.
>> I don't know what that does for me at any point, but do you remember that Vine that was viral when we >> Why are you patronizing me? Why is this Kansas and this is no is this is not our Kansas? America America explain. I thought about it all the time when I was Arkansas features heavily in today's story. I thought about it all the time.
>> America America explain.
>> Yeah, I know. I'm right there with you.
>> Yeah.
America, explain why there's a second assassination attempt that seems staged on your president.
>> Um, >> welcome to 2026.
>> Yeah, Patreon talk. You know, >> it's like how you really know the poll numbers are slipping and then and then I'm like, God, I sound like a conspiracy theorist, but also >> I'm ready to put on a tin hat at this point.
>> Mega's not entirely sure anymore that the Pennsylvania thing wasn't staged at that point. Have you been seeing that grow on the internet? And I'm like >> like there have been very loud MAGA people that have been certain that it was not real.
>> I'm like the fungus that is your political ideology is now infecting the body which is what The Last of Us is all about. Um >> don't do that.
>> OKAY.
>> OKAY.
>> I take me out zombies. Fast moving zombies.
>> Yeah. Yeah. But with fire like I don't you know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Take me out fast and quick.
>> We can all gather at my town home. We'll set a fire on the first floor cuz that's the only way out. So then I get that point, you know.
>> Okay. Yeah. Cool. We can have Lydia set up balance.
>> Certainly. Certainly hasn't been a thought I've had been like if this whole thing goes matches up, I'm jumping.
>> Wow.
>> Dark just sad, but I'm not cheering for it. That feels like it should.
>> You say that he has some of the same thoughts I do for very different reasons.
>> Oh, hey, calendar update. Uh, according to my phone, we're about to start recording in 30 minutes. Just >> sure.
>> So, Bass Reeves runs away from George Reeves and to freedom essentially. Now, this is interesting. One of the things of research I said I got to was according to the Reeves family, um, sometime around 1862, Bass Reeves and George Reeves get into an argument over a game of poker and maybe Bass even punches George and then runs away. And maybe that's true.
>> Beautiful. Also, the fact that George is enslaving Bass, maybe that's enough of a reason for Bass to like >> I'm also in intrigued by the fact that they were playing on an equal playing field.
>> Well, the tough thing is like this is a dynamic that they are used to as kids.
And also like if George is anywhere near Bass's age, >> they probably played together in a very complicated racial politics that you see later expressed in the movie The Help, like from the 1960s. So, like there's all of that. There is some reason to believe that if they do get into a fight, even if it's just a verbal fight, if it's a nasty one, because George is a white man who's enslaving Bass, >> Bass has to run away to save his own skin, right? Like, >> yes, >> the freedom went from I would like to do this to I now have to do this cuz the consequences waiting for me are >> Yeah. are not something I'm going to survive, >> right? So he flees and goes not north but west into what is the current state of Oklahoma.
>> A wild decision, right? Literally.
>> But at the time is Indian territory, right?
>> And this means that it is like basically ungoverned.
>> Mhm.
>> It was ungoverned kind of before the civil war. There was just kind of other stuff that the US was trying to get to.
You have active Indian wars as they would call or conflict between US federal government and Native Americans elsewhere in the Midwest. You have a growing, you know, separatist movement in the south that then bursts out into full-on secession. So, a region that was already only anomaly under federal control is during the civil war like fully ungoverned. Is there a govern government government or like a I don't know universal rules between the like various indigenous tribes?
>> Yeah, there will be some kind of like tribal governance obviously, right? Um and some level of like federal support or like guidance, things like that.
>> But it's not like he just fled to Cincinnati or Chicago.
>> It's not something that anyone outside of those indigenous groups would inherently understand.
>> Correct. And what's also really interesting about this territory at the time, there's I think actually really several really really interesting things here. First, this territory is a refuge for people who want away from the federal government or law in general. So Bass is for instance not the only black person in Indian territory that has fleed from the slave states of Texas, Louisiana, and Arkansas, right?
I can't get all the way to Iowa, Illinois, Ohio. I can't get that far north, but I can get to Indian territory and basically kind of disappear. You also have um whites on the run is is what we could kind of call it. There's a children's song from this region at the time that basically goes, "Oh yeah, oh yeah." Like, "What was your name back in the States before you robbed, murdered, or set that thing on fire? What was your name in the States?" Like, I'm not doing like the actual song justice, but it's like, "Hi, John Smith. That's not your real name. What was it?"
>> And everyone's like, "The >> Pinkertons would like to know."
>> Everyone's like, "I don't know what you're talking about. I've always been John Smith." Right. But if anyone comes looking for a Grant Thomas, you haven't seen me.
>> You haven't seen me. Sorry, him.
>> Exactly. Exactly. And so for a person like Bass, this is a perfect place to hang out for the next couple of years to avoid detection, to avoid authority, right? Also, like if you're trying to make a living, right, as like a black person in the South, there are worse places to land. I mean, it's certainly like lawless and you're in danger from like that perspective.
>> Yeah. But the current laws weren't really doing you any favors previously.
>> No one's necessarily laying claim to ownership of you there, which is a step up than where you were before.
>> Mhm.
>> Now, here's also an unfun fact >> about the Indian territory.
>> Bass Reeves actually shares a lot in common with the indigenous people that he meets.
>> Okay. The year he was born, 1838, is also the year in which the event known as the Trail of Tears occurred. The Trail of Tears is when white southerners, empowered by President Andrew Jackson, who was himself a southerner, forcibly removed all indigenous people in the American South to west of the Mississippi.
>> Was did it start in a specific area or was it just all of the South?
>> You're seeing portions of Florida.
you're seeing then big time Mississippi and Alabama um is Yeah, for sure. Cuz but Georgia being one of the 13 original colonies had seen indigenous people pushed out and into like Alabama and Mississippi.
Yeah. Yeah. And like bad violence. But this 1838, like I said, Arkansas is pretty depopulated. Like >> Mississippi, Alabama, these places are getting populated. And so the federal government formally comes in and forces like the seinals out of Florida, the Chalkaw and the Creek out of Mississippi and Alabama. Extra interesting. Florida State University in the state of Florida are the Seinals.
>> Yeah. Which feels >> right.
>> If you don't understand why that feels weird, I don't know what to tell you.
>> The Seinals have the word allowed isn't the right word, but that's the word I'm going to use for lack of knowing the better one right now. the seinals have been allowed back into Florida and have like certain tribal operations in Florida. Yes. In the same way that I mean like it's 2026 like freedom of movement. You could buy a house in theory anywhere again in theory. Um >> but like they're forcibly pushed >> to the west of the Mississippi and that's where they now are. And so Bass Reeves who's escaping the exact same white power structure that led into them.
>> Yeah. And like finds safety in them.
wild.
>> Having all suffered from like the same political system, >> I love when white people do stupid [ __ ] >> I just This part of history is so so so interesting.
>> We just kind of oppressed everyone until they they joined forces.
>> Yeah. I mean Yeah. Like you Yeah. Yeah.
>> Grant.
>> I'm like I'm like I could write 10 pages right now on how that's not fully accurate, but it's Yeah. Like for the most part. Yeah.
>> Okay. So 18 like 63 emancipation proclamation happens. 1865 the Civil War ends.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> Bass obviously doesn't go back to Texas and the plantation or enslavement that he grew up in from No. Instead Bass takes his new wife Jenny Haynes back to Arkansas where he knows >> Jenny Haynes a fellow enslave >> fellow black woman. Um, there is almost nothing about Jenny Haynes backstory.
There is only bits and pieces of Bass Reeves backstory that we've been able to sense piece together.
>> We know when she dies. She dies in like 1896 and Bass will remarry as men do. Yeah.
>> Uh, we know that Jenny has 11 children.
>> Holy [ __ ] [ __ ] I would rather set myself on fire. I don't know how else to put it.
>> And from what I have gathered, I do not believe she died in childbirth.
>> I mean, good for her. I guess the odds were stacked against her at that point.
11 children.
>> Yeah.
>> And so 1865, Bass takes his new honey, Jenny Haynes, >> and they move back to Arkansas.
>> Arkansas's a region that they know.
Yeah, >> Arkansas is especially on the spectrum of like southern former Confederate states still pretty depopulated, right?
Like it's I caution us of thinking about these places the way that we would think about them now, which is that like Mississippi, Alabama, Arkansas, Louisiana all basically have the same kind of population density. Like they all go through the same kind of development. They will, but they're actually like Arkansas is actually quite depopulated still has access to the Mississippi River, right? There is some real hope around the Freriedman's Bureau about getting like 40 acres in a mule and there's like classes being set up specifically in um the former Confederacy and because the federal government has not stepped into the Indian territory yet. Indian territory of Oklahoma and Kansas are not like famously safe. Like I know this feels counterintuitive. Yeah. But I do think Bass and Jenny made the most logical decision for their family, which is like >> go somewhere safe, >> right? It is safer for us to be in a former slave holding state than this just absolutely perfor society kind of lawless infertile hellscape that we're currently.
>> So I asked Casey the same question that you had texted me previously, which was the question he asked me at the beginning. And I was like, "What's what was your perception of the like American West?" And he was like, "That's a really broad question. I'm going to need more information." I was like, "You you're not going to get it, so tell me." And he got he waxed poetic for a second. It was actually I was like, "Wow, okay." He was like, "I think the definition I would give it is every action has an equal and opposite reaction." And I was like, "We're still not facing most of those reactions, though." And he went, >> "No." But you get what I mean.
>> Yeah. No. And like an a totally fair assessment. And this is where Bass's life >> should, for the most part, from a historical lens, come to an end. He should just be like an old farmer.
>> Yeah. Just live out his days, >> right? Live out his days. He'll have several children from like 1865 to like 1885. And those children will then have children and his and Bass's great great grandchildren will like desegregate Little Rock schools in the late 1960s, right? Like that is how that story should go. and also kind of helps put into perspective for you that you for a lot of the formerly enslaved I mean if you're born into slavery in 1850 you're having kids in 1880 and then those kids are having kids in like >> you're having kids a lot earlier than that at that point maybe but you're probably still having kids right 1910 and then you know >> that's kind of >> yeah your grandkid is an elder in the black community during the civil rights movement of the 1960s your grandkid >> see I can't process like that's What do you mean?
>> Right. Right.
>> Which also means like the grandkids of all those violent whites during those civil rights movement of the 1960s are just like today's modern Republican establishment in the south.
>> It's all genetic.
>> I'd apologize if any of that was a lie.
Um, >> prove us wrong, please.
>> So, his story should end there in 1865.
He's just like a farmer in Arkansas, whatever. But 10 years later in 1875 at the age of 37, Bass is approached with a really interesting opportunity.
The federal government's like, "Okay, the time has come. We need to start getting like a grip on Indian territory." I mean, Kansas is becoming a state, right? Indian territory needs to be organized. You have white settlers who are getting pushed out of like Mississippi and Alabama and Texas because we're running out of land there.
They're going to want to settle parts of Oklahoma. And it's part of our big great manifest destiny to keep driving westward.
>> You can't just have this like lawless, you know, >> free zone in the middle of the country that anyone can run to. Yeah. So they set up So they set up a judge over like a federal judge over the Indian territory and task him with basically like assert federal law and federal authority which means he needs to hire several federal marshals to enforce the law. I'm going to explain for our non-American friends and me about two days ago and Maya maybe right now.
>> Literally right now. I promise you >> if Grant had to learn about it, there's there's no way in fresh hell I know about it.
>> Why? And uh what is a is a US marshal, correct? So, um your local town will hire police >> and those police will have jurisdiction just over their town.
>> Actually, yeah. Okay.
>> You knew that?
>> Yeah.
>> Your local So, like >> I know that the marshals are more private, correct?
>> Uh kind We're going to get there.
>> Okay. Okay. Don't take your guess like you're gonna embarrass yourself.
>> I'm like um which is why if you're ever going to speed just make sure you're near Sheridan cuz as soon as you cross into and out of Denver and Lakewood you are changing local um authority.
>> There has been sorry like two weeks ago driving home from 45 driving across Sheridan.
>> There are like 20 cop cars. Have I told you about this? No. There were like 20 cop cars. It looked like a huge arrest by like an apartment complex. And I was like, damn, that's crazy. And then like 3 days later on like the next door app, someone was like, "Have anyone else noticed like a huge cop presence down here?" And I was like, "Yeah, like and people were talking about it." The like a week later, I'm now driving home and I saw I had s seen more posts about people talking about undercover cops in that area and I was like, "Oh, they're definitely waiting for someone."
>> There was a man who was an undercover cop. everything about him undercover except for the fact he was wearing a high viz yellow yellow vest that says police on the back and also his car was illegally parked.
>> Amazing >> on like the lawn next to that lake.
>> I love that.
>> I was like okay.
>> Yeah. Well, there I mean that's the delineating line between authority and some places have like shared whatever.
Anyways, so your local town has local has a local police office.
>> Your county then has a sheriff.
>> Yes. And in places like my hometown of my home state of Nebraska, it's not uncommon for a town to be so small that the town does not have a police force and just relies on the sheriff. And in a county with several small towns where none of them have a police force, the county just has a sheriff, which at any given moment has just but one or two people on duty. In this county, >> that's a crime county.
>> Yeah. Well, yeah, that's that's a that's that's an underage drinking county now because the group text can verify where the county sheriff is, which means everywhere else the law is not.
>> So, you have your local police, you have your county sheriff, and then you have US marshals, which are really helpful because if you commit a felony like murder, um >> I don't like the way that you said that.
>> Well, it's I'm it's just historically accurate to the story, right? Your local police will want to arrest you for murder, but they're not going to chase you if you leave town cuz that's where their jurisdiction ends and they got responsibilities back at home. The US Marshall's sole goal is to enforce finger guns away >> is to enforce justice. Um, a US Marshall's job is to go, I will find you and I will bring you in. Yeah. Well, if you're wanted dead or alive. Yeah. If you were wanted dead or alive, a US marshal was after you.
Okay.
>> US marshals basically have federal authority everywhere, >> but specifically to hunt for you.
>> Does that make sense?
>> What did I do?
>> They have like a warrant for the a person's arrest.
>> So, they're bounty hunters.
>> Yeah. A federal a federal bounty hunter.
>> Federally funded bounty hunters.
>> Yes. Almost every western show you watch where they're like, "We're looking for Maya the Scrug or whatever." Right.
She's wanted for >> Why the [ __ ] would you give That's an awful nickname.
>> Okay. Well, then don't be a thief.
>> Crime doesn't pay, Maya.
>> It could if I stole the right thing.
>> We're looking for Mama Maya and her man her band of misfits.
>> It's Grant. It's just Grant.
>> Last seen pulling out of Hades Town.
Seen them lately.
>> I'm so excited.
>> Good.
the urge to make you all take like a prequiz before we go into Hades Town cuz I'm not answering [ __ ] basic act ask Greek mythology questions after the show.
>> So the US Marshall would be like we're here to find Mama Maya and her band of misfits whatever and then they'd like nab you you know for all the cattle stealing you've been doing and bring you to justice >> stealing horses but whatever. And it's especially good in places like Indian territory where there is few settled towns, especially towns with their own police forces and even like it's such early days that counties don't really exist. You know what I mean? Like we'll eventually draw counties.
>> So the sheriff was just kind of like >> everything the light touches is mine.
>> Yeah. No. Yeah. For reals. Yes. So a US marshal really helpful in that situation. Yeah. So when the federal governments in 1875 like we are going to assert federal authority over Indian territory that starts at the highest level of getting some US marshals in there who can >> go out and execute like arrest warrants and things like that for individuals who have broken the law because you have a lack of municipal organization. The federal government's like we're bringing these people along. And if you're like why don't they just use the FBI? It doesn't exist. It won't exist for another 60 years >> until Hoover decides he wants to start spying on Frank Sinatra, >> right? No. Like um outside of like the US federal army, like there is no federal police force, you know, >> and so they're trying to figure out who to hire, they need to hire 200 US marshals. Um, you're going to hire a bunch of like former Confederates who have like a horse, sword, and pistol, which was oftentimes as much of a requirement or that you need in order to be a law man.
>> Sword >> Casey's going to be thrilled.
>> Yeah, >> that man would love to go sword shopping with you.
>> I know.
>> Um, and so they approach Bass because they're like, "Hey, you. So, couple things that we think make you qualified.
You have a gun and a horse, which is fine. We can we can wave the sword requirement. Um, you are black and like a good deal portion of the people who are settling out here are black or at least non-white. And hey, remember those years you spent living amongst the indigenous community to hide from the white enslavers? That could be helpful.
>> If you speak all of the indigenous languages of Oklahoma, >> how long was he hiding out there?
>> I mean, listen, if all I had to do was sit around and listen, I'd learn some words pretty quickly, too.
>> But like, those languages are not usually easy. Sure. But I also don't think he's like, "Let me explain to you astrophysics."
>> Right. He's like, "Food me now."
>> Right.
>> Okay.
>> Mama Maya WHERE >> AND I DON'T want to be >> It's me in Japan.
>> Right. It's all of us.
>> It's Tyler in Germany.
>> It's all of us anywhere outside of America or with our parents on the 12th hour.
>> Yeah.
>> What now?
>> What now?
And I don't mean to like discredit Bass's knowledge on it.
>> All I'm saying is he spent like kind of more or less 18 months out there.
>> Okay. Okay. That's a significant amount of time.
>> Enough time to probably learn conversational. Right.
>> The best way to learn is immersion, baby.
>> Right. Also was super impressive though, Bass Reeves doesn't know how to read.
Speaks four languages. At least all three of the indigenous in in Oklahoma plus English. cannot read. So >> that's wild.
>> He would the judge would read out arrest warrants and he'd just remember it, >> bro.
>> Yeah. He'd just be like, "Got it."
>> Wow.
>> Off I go. You know, >> I couldn't reme I went to a horseback riding clinic and at the beginning I there's only like maximum 20 horses in this barn, y'all.
and I'm read riding a horse that I know very well for this clinic and we're going around introducing ourselves and I fully [ __ ] blank on this horse's name. Someone else had to tell me. I was like, "What?" So anyway, I couldn't do what Bass >> Well, extra interesting. Most settlers in Indian territory of Oklahoma.
>> Yeah.
>> Won't be able to read because of where these settlers are coming from. These settlers are largely coming from the south >> or are formerly enslaved themselves.
>> Okay, >> a handful of the formerly enslaved had access to schools the federal government set up which would have taught them like basic literacy.
>> But if you're a white southerner, there's a pretty good chance that you can't read cuz your religious practice is Baptist or Methodist and that involves you going to service and being inspired by the preacher >> through listening. up north where you're mostly Protestant Lutheran. And for them, religious practice required you individually to be able to read the Bible, which meant northerners sent their children to school to make sure they were literate.
>> I am fascinated.
>> Isn't that great? At this time, at around around the start of the Civil War, something like 80% of northern white men were at least functionally literate and less than a third of southern white men were.
>> Isn't that interesting? Isn't that just the way this whole this whole thing >> the way my little cult brain is like, well, that makes sense >> historically.
>> Yeah. Right.
>> Yeah. So, he's in Oklahoma, can speak the language, can't read, but neither can anybody else. So, what is a matter?
Um, and he's like, "Yeah, I'll I'll go hunt down these people for you." And he becomes the first black US marshal west of the Mississippi River.
>> What a [ __ ] badass. I want you to know the last time, remember when you were like, "Can we do Law and Order?"
And I was like, "Well, we've done Law and Disorder, so we can do that or we can do something else." When we did Law and Disorder, my episode was the Pinkertons.
>> Oh, yeah. This is not This is not the Pinkerton.
>> I know, but like it's the same time frame for sure. And I the way I was like, well, it couldn't be anything like the Pinkertons.
>> Yeah. Just black Pinkerton out west.
>> Yeah. And feels morally better. Yes.
Okay, cool.
>> This is, by the way, Bass Reeves. Look at those mustaches. Look at that mustache.
>> That mustache has seen I don't I don't even know what the [ __ ] kind of mustache is that. Are you familiar too with like modern face theory?
>> This is This is a face that I believe could have seen an iPhone.
>> Yeah. Not with that [ __ ] mustache.
>> Dakota Johnson has 100% seen a mustache.
Um >> seen a mustache.
>> Seen.
>> Well, she has what I said isn't wrong. It's just ridiculous.
>> Put it on his gravestone.
>> Wasn't wrong. Just >> ridiculous. Dakota Johnson's face has definitely seen an iPhone and something like Robert El's face definitely like hasn't. Abraham's Lincoln has not. This face could >> that face could have argued something on Reddit. You know, >> wait until you see a photo of his hot son.
>> That mustache is crazy, y'all. The the like the width of it is is nuts.
>> So, now that I've shown you um a photo of Bass, >> Yes.
>> here's a photo of the first kind of core of US marshals that get hired for Indian territory. So, white, white, white, white, white, white, white. Where is white, white, white, white, white, black.
>> Point to where he is.
>> One black person. Like noticeably more separated than the other people. I don't know why I'm showing the camera. I'm going to put >> Bass is right there. Mustache. Look for the mustache.
>> Holy [ __ ] Oh, he kind of looks white in this photo.
>> Yeah, he kind of blends in a little.
>> Yeah, there is one like >> darker black man on the other side.
>> You're queuing in on two things though.
First, in these like newer western states, states we'd consider the Midwest today, but at the time are western. um you are seeing some like real economic opportunity for black people like out here in the west um get hired and also at the same time like not not a diverse group by any means but like economic opportunity. So >> bass in 1875 moves Jenny and his family out towards Oklahoma. I don't know how many children they have at this point. I don't believe we've hit all 11 yet. So 11 are the ones that make it through.
>> So again, really tough. You only really find out about the children if they are notable to the law.
>> So only 11 survive enough for a census maybe.
>> I don't know.
>> Oh, okay.
>> I like for reals. There's a lot of his personal story. Yeah, that's >> because he was black because you know of all the also >> totally enslaved and >> a lot of the areas that he also worked like even after settlement stayed pretty rural and like there's also like a rural history element that's hard to like you know hold on to but I do know he moves his family to Oklahoma in 1875 serves as a US marshal he is almost immediately getting a reputation for being just a total and complete badass.
>> Okay. Uh, one of his claim to fame is that quote, "Bass Reeves was so tough he could spit on a brick and split it in half."
>> Jesus Christ.
>> No one like no one's incredibly thick as Gaston. He um once, and this was again a like way to prove just how above reproach he was, >> Bass Reeves at one point had to arrest the pastor that baptized him.
>> Maya, can you guess the crime the pastor was accused of?
>> I don't want to.
>> Go ahead. Oh, it's not that one.
>> Okay, >> go ahead and take another take a guess.
>> Embezzlement. No, but that what a really good historically accurate guess selling whiskey, which was super illegal at the time, specifically in Oklahoma/Indian Territory. Um because you can't be selling alcohol to Native Americans.
Like that will, you know, racism. And also like there there is a complex relationship between like indigenous people and alcohol and like whatever whatever whatever you couldn't sell it to you couldn't sell it in Indian territory which is not to say that white people weren't drinking it in Indian territory. I just want to like kind of clarify that the issue wasn't necessarily so much the pastor having whiskey, it was the selling problem.
>> But they were like, "Yep, he uh arrested his own baptismal pastor." At one point, he walked up to two men and the first thing he asked these two men was, "Sorry, gentlemen. Can I ask you what today's date is?" And they go, "Why do you want to know?" And he goes, "Cuz your arrest papers need to have the date on them."
>> Shut the [ __ ] UP. I KNOW, RIGHT? I know.
>> Incredible.
>> The fun part about researching Bass is his body of work of like research that you can really get into cuz like obviously being illiterate, he didn't write a lot, right? Like >> he rural black Oklahoma, right? There's a bunch of different like tags that make his history really hard for us to access 125 years later. So it means that all the things that we do have of him were just the coolest [ __ ] that he ever did but then like take him together like largely live outside of anything I could ever like build for context, you know?
Do you remember a couple like a year and a half ago I did that story about that lesbian who rescued her girlfriend from a friend?
>> Yeah. And set then that that none on fire. I was able to because that woman was aris aristocratic.
>> Yes. almost perfectly situate that into the timeline of her life, right? A lot of these cool as hell, dope as [ __ ] things that Bass Reeves does or says is like, "And that's just kind of the guy who who Bath was."
>> And I was like, "But when and where was he when he did these things and he's like >> he's like loosely affiliated with a bunch of western outlaws at the town at the time.
>> There's like like a Bella Rose I think is her name. She was like a famous horse stealer or whatever. And it was like, yeah, apparently they both were in the same town for a little while. And after spending time together in that town, they both started hoisting their guns differently, like the same way. There was like a better way to like hold on to it. Anyway, she got shot, killed by a different US marshal elsewhere.
>> [ __ ] stories.
>> Like, what do you mean?
>> I do, too. And I was like, as I was doing them, I was like, this is we're just going to commit to the stories. And it's one of one of those episodes that it's like 45 minutes or three hours long. Like you it's really hard to gauge the time it takes to get through the stories. And I'm just going to try to really fill out a picture of this man and the forces that defined his life.
And it's not going to be so much like and then in the eighth year, you know, >> there's no on the third day Bass shot again. You know, >> I was I was about to say on the seventh day he rested.
>> Um he was like, "Yep, your arrest your rest papers need to be dated." That's a badass thing to say.
>> In his own words, and there's a box now for you to read.
>> Oh my god.
>> He gets the job of US marshal in 1875 when he's 37 years old. Okay. He will serve in that role from 1875 until 1907.
So he will serve in that role for 32 years starting at the age of 37. He'll go until he's like 69 years old.
>> Wa.
>> Yeah. Which means there are paper interviews of him cuz he was like LOCAL LAW ENFORCEMENT.
>> HERE is something he shared about the early years. He shared this with an Oklahoma City newspaper in 1907 on like the event of his retirement.
>> Wow. Okay. 80 miles west of Fort Smith, it was known as the deadline. And whenever a deputy marshall from Fort Smith or Paris, Texas, crossed the Missouri, Kansas, and Texas railroad track, he took his life in his hands, and he knew it. On nearly every trail would be found posted by outlaws, a small card warning certain deputies that if they ever crossed the deadline, they would be killed. Reeves has a dozen of these cars which were posted for his special benefit. And in those days, such a notice was no idol boast. So, let a little context for it because it kind of took me a second to understand what I was reading there, too. Um, >> you know, you would see signs that say like wanted, dead, or alive, and it was the law posting that about outlaws.
>> West of the deadline, outlaws were like wanted, dead, or alive, US Deputy Marshall Bass Reeves. And what he's saying there is anytime I'd find one of those, I'd collect it. And I have them in my collection of death warrants. Shut the [ __ ] up.
>> And then here's the thing, too.
>> That's so cool.
>> It's very, very cool. But then imagine being like son or grandson on the event of his death where he's like, "These are super cool, but like >> what do you do?
>> What what but also like what do I do with these? Like I'll frame one, you know, and then like keep the rest in the closet with the coats, you know, temporary tattoos that my best friend got me of my own face."
>> 100% of like this is meaningful and there's nowhere else to go and it's not like a display thing. So, into the treasure trove of lore it goes.
>> I mean, that's so [ __ ] cool, though.
>> This next chapter, chapter 3 of I think five, uh, law man 1875 to 1907, >> right?
>> A book was published about the settling of the state of Oklahoma, which was now being called Oklahoma, >> in 1901, >> uh, and thus featured stories about Bass Reeves. The book was titled Indian territory descriptive biographical and genealological including the landed estates county seats etc etc with a general history of the territory.
>> Riveting title >> says etc twice says territory twice.
>> Babe that's not a title. That's a short story.
>> Yeah. Yes. Exactly.
>> What are you talking about?
>> By DC Gideon.
>> Oh, it's not even done.
>> No. Sorry. by DC Gideon. The Lewis Publishing Company, 1901.
>> Wow.
>> Among the many deputy marshals, none have met with more hair breath escapes.
Or actually, I'm going to let you read this one. It's the box again.
>> Sorry, I'm just trying to process that.
The Wizard of Oz is published around this time.
>> The little like while I laugh timeline is so rare.
>> I need to I need to add our most recent story.
>> You can do a vocal dissertation on it. I think you deserve at least a couple of levels of college credit. And I have a master's degree, so I think I can say that >> only. It has to be my stories, though.
Yeah, >> fair enough. I mean, it can only be undergraduate credit because it's her stories. But >> Oh, you can say what I care. Oh, you can say what I care.
>> I LITERALLY DID NOT SAY THAT.
>> You said a brand new insult.
>> Miss Mama, Miss Mama Maya and her band of bad boys, I think you have a reading for the class and I think we popcorn read to you.
>> Okay.
Not a lot of time to pre-eread, but whatever.
>> Oh, I did. You just You were talking to your friend Grant.
>> He's looking in the mirror at himself.
>> That girl I see >> distracting my podcast >> from a book in 1901.
>> That's not the way it was. Among the numerous deputy marshals, none have met with more hair breath escapes or have affected more hazardous arrests than Bass Reeves. Bass is a stalwart negro, 50 years of age, weighs 180 lb, stands 6'2 in in his stockings, and fears nothing that moves and breathes. His long, muscular arms have attached to them a pair of hands that would do credit to a giant, and they handle a revolver with such ease and grace acquired only after years of practice.
Several quote unquote bad men have gone to their long home, that's an insane way to say that, gone to their long home for refusing to halt when commanded to by Bass. But we will let him tell a story of adventure in his own words. Um, many of my favorite things about that little passage right there. First, like Man Crush Monday.
>> Yes.
>> To the extreme. Two, in 1901, they're like, "There's this guy named Bass Reeves, 50-year-old >> hot.
>> So hot."
>> Z.
>> Really interesting, though. In 1901, Bass Reeves is 64 >> and >> his hands would shock you. I was doing research this morning on the couch as I'm like clicking away or whatever and I'm reading this and my boyfriend is on like the other end of the couch like TikTok whatever. I'm like, "Wait, what?"
And I go, "Oh my god, I love it when this happens." And he like lifts his head up and he goes, "What?" And I go, "Okay, I'm at the point now in the story where I've done enough research that I can figure out."
>> It's a beautiful mind situation.
>> I can figure out historical inaccur inaccuracies of like other pieces of information that I'm reading. And so I'm like this book in 1901 misses his age by 14 years. Although at a time like really pre-birth certif I'm saying all this to my boyfriend who a second ago was like cackling at cat videos or whatever. And I'm like so this was written in 1901 and like granted this is a time like largely before birth certificates especially if you're like born into the like enslaved.
So it's hard to like just like look up how old someone is in 1901. So you have to just like trust the wording. So either a um the author of this did an interviews like 15 years earlier and is now just now writing it which like doesn't really make sense because like Oklahoma history changes so much in those 15 years as like it moves toward statehood or what I'm guessing is like actually more accurate Bass Reeves is lying to this author in 1901 about how old he is so that way like uh outlaws continue to like fear him because uh I'm a lot more afraid of a 50-year-old than I am of a 64 year old and in 1901 Bass Reeves still has six more years of his policing career. Isn't that so interesting?
>> I do. Do you remember the gossip columnist I covered where that one was always lying about her age and at some point when she started getting asked, she said, "I'm one year younger than that bitch."
>> CORRECT. YES.
>> I'M I'm 14 years younger than you think I am.
>> Yes. And so I'm like either like it's like a historical record era or Bass is just saying this out of vanity or like these interviews happened when he was 50 and now 14 years later it's getting published or written about or whatever.
All of this I think is really interesting but like >> I can tell you for a fact he's not 50 years old in 1901 >> because so >> if he's 50 years old in 1901 then he's going to the Civil War at age 10. And while not unheard of, like >> not common, >> not common. And also, when is he learning chalk talk?
>> And my like wonderful, caring, sweet, kind boyfriend who loves how much of like a nerd I am watching videos three sentences ago.
>> Yeah. Just kind of looks at me and like blinks slowly twice at me and I go, "Anyways."
And then I just kind of go back to start highlighting the website again some more. So, I'm like kind of like clicker drag over the story.
He's like very patient and he gets me and I'm appreciative of that. But I was like, >> "Put those finger guns away. I don't like when they're pointed at me right now." No.
>> You've seen that thing, right? Where they're like, "Remember, whenever you point the finger, there's four fingers or there's like three fingers pointing back at you, right? And so people will be LIKE Point all five of those bad boys.
>> 10 toes down, five fingers across.
>> Okay, we have a couple of more detailed stories that um of his like some of his most famous arrests that I was able to piece together. Almost all of these stories come from at least two different sources each that like each had one colorful detail, but we're now naming the perpetrator regularly enough for me to be like, "Ah, so this story is that story." And it's >> it does end up becoming like a cool puzzle sometimes.
>> Yes, you you have to have the right story though cuz what there's you either have not enough information or way too [ __ ] much information. You have to have it's I find this time frame is the correct time frame. Yeah, >> the stories I thought were going to be that way and then weren't Carpathia.
That was actually an incredibly cut and dry series of events, which makes sense how I thought about it cuz they had to present it to like an insurance adjuster like after the sinking, but very little discrepancy in the stories actually.
Okay, >> you know where there was a lot of discrepancies? Bear breaking.
>> South Lake Tom.
>> Some would say it's mainly a problem at night. Not everyone would say that, but some would.
Okay. Bass would help track down famous outlaw Jim Webb, who is a classic western outlaw. These guys did bank robberies and moving train heist. They formed a gang in Las Vegas, New Mexico, um called the like Dodge Street Gang or whatever. And I'm actually pretty sure part of the phrase we got to get out of dodge could at least in part be >> like rooted back to Jim Webb. Yep. Jim Webb and the Outlaws. That's cool. He is at one point arrested, found guilty, and sentenced to hang. But before they can hang him, his uh merry band of friends break him out of jail. Like do a classic jailbreak situation.
>> Incredible. More of that. I mean, not but you know.
>> And New Mexico is actually further to the west of Oklahoma than even Arkansas is. It goes Arkansas, Oklahoma, New Mexico. You just had me look at a map and I know where New Mexico >> and Oklahoma and New Mexico also touch.
>> SHUT THE [ __ ] UP. NO, they don't.
>> Yes, of course they do. Because Oklahoma also touches Colorado.
>> I knew that. I forgot they were part of the four corners.
>> They're not.
>> That's That's Colorado, Utah, Arizona, and New Mexico. New Mexico is part of the four corners.
>> Cuz New Mexico is south, right? Arizona is southwest.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh-huh. And then Utah's directly west, >> guys. I'm not even like, >> so anyways, >> on anything, >> Jim Webb is like, "Let's get out of here and go to our favorite patch where there are no laws, Indian territory, aka Oklahoma."
>> Yeah.
>> And then this is where the 1901 book picks up.
>> Reeves cuts off Jim Webb with his horse, and Webb turns towards a clump of bushes. He ran about 600 yards, turned around, and fires at uh Bass Reeves. The first shot grazed the horn of Reeves saddle. The second cut a button from his shirt. The third bullet shot by Jim Webb towards Bass Reeves >> cut both of the bridal res below his hands and disconnected his like res in his hands from the horse he was driving uh riding. There we go. That's the word.
>> Allowing them to fall to the ground.
Reeves jumps off his horse as another bullet lands in Reeves hat and takes it off. So Bass Reeves jumps off the horse.
As he's jumping off the horse, another bullet clean takes his hat off. That's when Bass gets his first shot off. And before Jim Webb's bodies hits the ground, Bass puts two more in him 600 yards away.
>> That other man was such a good bad shot.
>> I know.
>> What do you mean? You managed to hit something so close to him. so many times. Like statistically AT THAT POINT, YOU SHOULD HAVE hit him.
>> Star Wars trooper ass kind of shot.
>> Yeah. What the hell?
>> Uh, as outlaw Jim Webb lay dying on the ground, Bass Reeves approaches and hears Jim say, "Give me your hand, Bass." As Web extends his hands, Jim goes, "You are a brave, brave man. I want you to accept my revolver and scabbard as a present, and you must accept them."
Correct. He does. And he goes, "And you must accept him. Take it. For with it I have killed 11 men, four of them in here this Indian territory, and I expected to make you the 12th." Bass accepted the presents which are now st care carefully stored away.
>> That's so cool.
>> The dying declaration of Jim Webb was taken in writing by Mr. Bwaters and thus ended the career of another bad man. So question was anyone else at the presence of Jim Webb's death?
>> Yeah, the two other members of uh Bass Reeves Posi.
>> Okay. I was like what are the >> which includes Mr. Bwaters.
>> Okay. That this Bass was just like >> you know what would be cool >> actually. Really interesting. Um it was US federal marshall policy that you could not go out with at least one member of your posi.
>> Okay.
>> And so you always had to have at least one thing of backup. often times you traveled in groups of like three or four. If you're in groups of three or four, the third or fourth person is like often times like camp cook and so not actually law men but just there to like help keep everyone alive.
>> Yeah. And it makes sense. I mean the more people you bring the more likely you are to catch somebody and thus the more people you have to split the prize money for cuz he's a US marshal which means he has authority but he gets paid from the people he brings in.
>> Right. Right. So he has this incentive to go off and do things.
>> Okay.
>> Another outlaw that had the misfortune of being hunted by Bass Reeves is Tom Story. Tom was an expert horse thief and murderer who had sold and stole horses all along the Red River, which is between Oklahoma and Texas. From which touch each other. I don't know if you knew that or not. From >> I'm not going to even pretend that I do or don't. From 1884 to 1889, Bass Reeves and his deputy got a hunch as to where Tom's story might hit next and camped out for 4 days along the river until Tom approached them ostensibly to steal from them.
>> Bass Reeves then revealed himself as the law and attempted to arrest Tom. Tom had no interest in being arrested and Bass Reeves won the shootout because Bass Reeves could draw his pistol faster than anybody else in the West could.
>> There ain't room enough for the two of us.
>> Very good. You got 85% of it. That's passing.
>> Shut the [ __ ] up.
>> I don't know why I'm being so mean to you.
>> I don't either. Just cuz I don't know geography.
>> That actually might be it. As soon as I'm like, you don't know Arkansas and Oklahoma. Touch. I'm like this girl.
I think of each state by itself because I at one point was like I need to be able >> to label each state on a map because I'm better than everyone else. And so I can do that. I still mix up the eye states, but I usually get everything else spot on.
>> I have two final like arrest stories.
Small one and then a more detailed run.
First, the small one. Bass Reeves became so infamous in this part of the country that he would haunt the dreams of outlaws.
One man apparently, >> and this says a lot about the way history is told.
>> One man attempted to set his fiance on fire.
>> I don't have, >> right? I don't have that information.
>> Okay.
>> Nor do I have any information about whether or not his goal was accomplished or not. Oh, >> here's what I do know.
>> WHY DO WE KNOW THAT HE WAS trying to do that? Then >> that man then went to sleep that night and what dreamed all night that he was being hunted by Bass Reeves and to avoid that turned himself into law enforcement the next day for either murder or attempted murder. Um, but was just like, I did something bad and then I dreamed of Bass Reeves >> and so here I am. And then years later he'd write a really arms as strong as a giant's hands whether 50 years old tight.
>> You'd be shocked at this man.
>> The original clicker article. Okay.
Okay. So, here's the second little story. He walked 30 miles pretending to be a beggar, getting all dusty and dirty and stuff. And then a a woman and her two sons were like, "Oh my god, please.
Yes. Come on in. Eat a meal with us.
spend the night before you were on your way again. And then in the middle of the night, Bass Reeves arrested the two sons who is what his targets were. Holy [ __ ] They literally woke up to be >> What a [ __ ] badass.
>> And then the next day, Bass was like, "It's 30 miles that way. Let's go. We got a lot of walking to do." And man, walked him back to camp, >> bro.
>> Okay, here is the last story. The actual arrest story happens a year after that book is published, 1902. Bass is now 65 years old. Okay.
>> So, a year or decade after that article was taken >> 51 or 64 bigger. Vas was given a special arrest warrant. He needed to arrest a Benjamin Benny Reeves.
>> Okay.
>> His son.
>> Whoa.
>> Who was accused of murdering his own wife. Bass overheard two US marshals talking saying, "Give it to someone else." And uh Bass goes, "Give me the RIP." and goes off and arrests his own son and turns his son in. And we have, >> oh my god, >> the written report from Benjamin Benji Reeves >> as to what happened. This is now Bass Reeves son in his own words, >> talking about getting arrested by his dad.
>> Well, talking about the event that would lead to his dad having to arrest him, >> right? Okay. Okay. Okay. On the morning of June 7th, 1902, at about 11:00 a.m., I called upon my wife at her cousin's house in Muskiji and asked her if it was true that she was having or did have improper relations with John Wadley. She answered me that she thought more of his little finger than she did of my whole body. By constant worry over her actions and the breaking up of my house and receiving such an answer, I lost all control and shot her.
>> He ran into my knife seven times.
>> He was like, "So, I go find my wife and I was like, I love you. Why would you do this?" And she was like, "His little pinky does more dissatisfy me than your whole body does."
>> Devastating.
>> And I couldn't handle that. And I couldn't handle it. And personally, I took offense to that. He then did commit murder.
>> Um, and is found guilty, >> locked away in prison for the rest of his life, serves 11 years because >> yeah, >> he was he was well behaved, right? But just and it's 1902, only a woman um >> and for reasons related to sex, >> right? A woman who was cheating on him, you know.
>> So why would we let her continue to live? because her answer is given to us by the man that murdered her and that's justice. You know, >> it's funny that it's still funny when he has to say it because, you know, he was so humiliated that is verbatim what she said.
>> I do actually think there's a decent chance that is almost word for word what she said. We just, you know, don't know because he killed her.
>> Um, you know, >> and uh women can't write. So, >> if you're wondering like why is Grant and Maya's tone right now so weird, it's cuz like oh that was 123 years ago, 124.
We're not [ __ ] arresting perpetrators or anything like that. Release the [ __ ] files.
>> Anyways, this is his agreement where he says what he did. He agrees to be like a good prisoner and has to put who arrested him.
>> Oh my god.
>> And um they put his dad's name. I'm trying to find it. I'm not going to part of this is obviously uh blurred out, >> right?
>> His son was a barber.
>> Fun.
>> Age 27.
>> Yeah.
>> So born right before they moved to um Oklahoma. So, there is a little bit of controversy around Bass Reeves.
>> Okay.
>> He's a powerful black man who represents the law. And in 1884, there's a change of leadership and a former Confederate sergeant takes over the region that Bass is in charge of and immediately accuses Bass Reeves of murdering his camp cook.
>> Now, well, so here's the complicated thing.
>> Oh, that he might have. Okay.
>> So, Bass Reeves was holding the gun that killed his cook.
Okay.
>> Bass over a campfire one night was trying to get a bullet that had been lodged in his like cartridge or whatever and it fires and there's other people who are like that's the story. Like it's definitely an accident. And also this story happened like years ago, >> right? They're just looking for dirt on Bass.
>> They're looking for a reason to um you know >> get rid of him as a US Marshal.
>> He gets representation. He's represented in court by a white lawyer and is found not guilty. Okay.
>> Which is huge.
>> Yeah.
>> It also like largely bankrupts him in 1884 and he has to start over in that way.
>> Also, in a testament to like his commitment to the law, he goes back to working for law enforcement. Like >> that's nuts.
>> He does not get necessarily disillusioned of the law in a way that sees him walk away from it all. He'll serve another, you know, 22 years in law enforcement. Would get disillusioned with a lot less. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Say, oh, you don't want me here? Fine, I can make more money elsewhere.
>> Yeah, >> this is an ugly place that's really hot and dusty. Like, I >> There's a place called Las Vegas, New Mexico.
>> Well, >> historian Art Burton does believe that the arrest and charges were politically motivated, like racially politically motivated, as former Confederates start to take over positions in the federal government now some 20 years after the Civil War is over. Um, but he survives it. Now, here's the last thing that is interesting about Bass Reeves. Kind of buried the headline a little bit, but I actually think there's a lot more interesting headlines than this. So, the whole story has not been building to this revelation, but this is probably what you're going to find if you Google anything deep enough about Bass Reeves.
There is a chance that Bass Reeves is the inspiration for the Lone Ranger.
Like the Hollywood story that comes from it all.
>> From the like authoritative historian on Bass Reeves life. His name's Art Burton.
This is what he has to say.
>> I came about this theory after I finished my first book and noticed the immense similarities between Bass Reeves and the fictional character the Lone Ranger. Reeves would work in disguise throughout his career, just like the Lone Ranger. The Lone Ranger gives out silver bullets, whereas Reeves would give out silver dollars. Oh.
>> To the White Homesteaders, Reeves face was like a black mask. They didn't remember his name, but referred to him as the black marshall.
>> Whoa.
>> In the original cartoons and movie series, the Lone Ranger wore a black mask that covered his whole face.
Federal deputies were mandated by law in Indian territory to take at least one posi man with them whenever they went anywhere into the field. Oftentimes these posi men who accompanied Reeves were Native Americans, similar to the tanto character in THE FICTIONAL SERIES.
>> OH, >> THE Lone Ranger program began as a radio program in Detroit in 1933.
Many of Bass Reeves's prisoners were convicted and sent to the Detroit House of Corrections as far as into the late 19th century. I couldn't prove conclusively that Reeves was the inspiration for the Lone Ranger, but he is the closest person in real life to compare to that fictional character.
>> Whoa. And so although there is no concrete evidence that the real legend inspired the creation of one of fiction's most well-known cowboys, Bass Reeves is the closest real person to resemble the fictional Lone Ranger on the American Western frontier of the 19th century.
>> Whoa. Yeah, that's sick.
>> Extra cool because the people he arrested do then ultimately spend time in Detroit, which is where those stories come from.
>> Oh my god.
>> Yeah. And like >> that's insane. I hadn't thought about any of that.
>> It's cool to think. This is the arrest warrant, by the way. Sorry, I'm not realizing I skipped over some pictures cuz I was like, "Oh, I just put this in the middle of a paragraph. That was stupid of me." Um, why would I do that?
Um, that was the original like hook for me to get into Bass Reeves was like, "Did you know the Lone Ranger was inspired by like a forgotten black marshall?" And >> I'm so glad that was true and not just >> Yeah. that that he can see and and hear and speak >> wasn't like a well-known and respected historical figure. Glad we turned the rock over though. Glad we glad we turned the rock over.
>> I will beat this dead horse. I think it's so funny.
>> It's also and not that you need to atone, but it's actually so funny. Like the more we talk about it, the more we're like and even I for a Facebook meme.
>> I too am stupid sometimes. Oh, no. It was like uh actually the other side of that coin, which is best case scenario, which is like the internet meme that first draws you to the story is a true, but then b least interesting thing about this person.
>> It's how the the the over overstein sisters and shaft work.
>> Oh, the like these sexy Nazi killers were sexy when they killed >> Can you believe that they were sexy when they did this >> and it turns out they're just assassinating people from moving bicycles?
>> Correct. They're like, >> "We're going to hold up this bar."
>> Men who will vote Republican for their entire life because they quote, "Believe it's the last defense of their own masculinity will spend 12 hours perfectly still in a deer lodge and not be able to hit a target the way these sexy Nazi killers who killed Nazis in a sexy way, >> sexy, >> we're able to do it."
>> Yeah.
>> And that's the story of Bass Reeves.
>> That's so cool.
>> Yeah. I thought about putting lawful good in the episode title being the lone ranger cuz it's he's not the lone ranger or maybe he is but I also don't think you and I will ever do the lone ranger.
No.
>> Um or so we could do a lone ranger.
>> I'm happy to do lone ranger.
>> Great. That's fine. Yeah, that's perfect. Um and also just it's it fits so perfectly. Um I I'm like 99% sure of what my story is for this theme.
>> Great. I you told me initially you wanted it to be like Law and Order, >> right?
>> And I have a story like Locked and Loaded. Great.
>> That I was like that's incredible. And then you said lawful good and I said >> doesn't fit anymore.
>> You were like that's so funny. No, law's still there. Good. Go ahead and go for it.
>> It's not good.
>> Okay.
>> Or really lawful. It's ar it's actually pretty arguable on that front.
>> No. And I I really want to dig into that one.
>> Lawful good. And then the episode title IS CHAOTIC BAD.
I THINK THERE'S AN OPTION THERE.
>> It might just end up being lawful, good, chaotic, chaotic, good. No, >> chaotic, neutral.
>> I don't know. It's It's a pretty chaotic story. We'll see. We'll see. I have another one that made me cry yesterday when I was researching.
>> Okay, we haven't done a tearjerker in a while.
>> Oh, I don't know if it was me or the story that was doing the tearjerking. It was a little of both. It was a little of both. But yeah, anyway, teaser that no one It's funny to no one but me right now. And do you have a theme for us next?
>> I need to settle on this story and then it'll rule out what the next story.
>> I have absolutely no room to be like, I need this theme cuz it took me forever to get to this one.
>> You gave me like last week. So yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just let me know.
>> Well, friends, um please continue to stick with us and join us on social media where you can find clips from today's show. Um if you would like to write in with your own lawful good, lawful bad, or chaotic neutral story, >> just crimes, >> right? Or crimes. Just crimes. um will [email protected] >> blanket statement >> or there's a file um on our website a form on our website will.com um you can find additional fun silly little content that focuses largely on the crazy things happening in our personal lives on Patreon and you can always request a cameo uh from us if you have something you want to remember on Memorial Day we would love to help remind you >> if you need to celebrate pride so yeah start thinking about pride gifts for your queer friends >> and Gemini Eye season hangs over us like a storm cloud off in the distance that we can see but have not yet felt. So let's keep that in mind when it comes to cameo appearances as well.
>> Um >> as a moon Gemini I felt that.
>> Good. Okay.
>> This is a double Taurus. I won't be intimidated.
>> Well, for a while I was identifying as a double Gemini and now I'm not. So anyway, >> goodbye. Love you.
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