This video presents a police interrogation of Pam Hupp, who shot and killed Louis Gumpenberger in self-defense after he jumped into her car and demanded she take him to the bank to get money from Russ Faria. The interrogation reveals how victims of home invasions must balance immediate self-defense actions with legal considerations, including calling 911, securing the scene, and providing accurate statements. Hupp's case demonstrates the complexity of self-defense claims, where the victim's actions must be evaluated against the specific circumstances of the threat, including the intruder's weapon, statements, and behavior. The case also highlights how prior criminal history and media coverage can influence public perception of self-defense claims.
Woman Plots Her OWN Murder To Cover up A Different MurderAdded:
You >> doing okay?
>> Mhm.
>> Okay. Get some hot water for myself.
>> If you needed cold water.
>> No.
>> Or something. What does that say?
>> Did you ask him about the >> film?
>> What are you talking about?
>> Do we Is this going to be film? Because I always appear on the news then from Chris.
>> Well, okay. I don't know about Chris Hades, but in in an incident such as this, okay, to protect you, to protect me. Um, we're going to record it. Okay.
>> Okay. Just because um that way, you know, it doesn't look like you're hiding anything. It doesn't look like I'm hiding anything. Um, >> okay.
>> That way I don't misconstrue something you say down the road, you know, like I misinterpret something you said or I thought you said one thing and you actually said another. So, >> okay. So, again, I appreciate you coming up here and talking to us. Um, I know that you wanted to come up here instead of um talk at the scene, which is great.
Um, I guess is there just out of curiosity, is there a reason why you came up? Is it cooler here or something?
No.
>> Temperature- wise? The officer said that I'd have to go back to here to repeat everything.
>> Okay. Okay. So, >> I didn't I didn't want to go anywhere.
>> Well, I appreciate you coming up here with us. Okay. And we'll take you home.
Um >> I just want to go anywhere but there.
>> Anywhere but there.
>> So, that's fine to come here.
>> Fair enough. Fair enough. So, um I miss I don't know much um about you. You keep throwing out these names and stuff like that. So, I'm I'm trying to stay on top of all this, but I guess let's let's start with um I really want to find out what happened today. So, I'd like to get a very detailed account of like what happened today. And really, what I'd like to do is if um if at all possible, probably start maybe maybe like last night, you know, let's like work the 24 hours beforehand and and work all the way through the incident. Make sure there's nothing that you saw or heard or something that might have happened or or something like that.
I don't want to miss anything. So, let's let's try to go back like 24 hours or so. Maybe yesterday afternoon lunch.
>> Okay.
>> Um and let's work our way forward.
>> Yesterday, I went to Best Buy and um purchased some items and talked to the general manager there about getting a job for my nephew.
Went home, got my nephew, said to bring him up, brought him up there. He talked to him for a little bit. We came back and we filled out some applications online.
Um went to Taco Bell, had lunch.
Um then I went home and then >> So what time did you have by did you think?
>> If you had to guess.
>> Well, I was there right when it opened.
So I think that's 10:00 because we had to wait in the parking lot a few minutes.
>> Okay, perfect.
>> So I think it was 10:00.
>> St. Peters.
>> Uh yeah, by the mall.
>> Mhm.
>> Perfect. And um I was there, like I said, came all the way back to Fallon, got my nephew, went back up there, stayed up there a little bit, then we came back, had lunch. I dropped him off. Oh, dropped him off. We filled out applications, three applications for Best Buy, the instructions he had given us, and then I went home and then um walked my dog, fed him, did all that kind of stuff. My husband came home. We had I left and I went to shop and save at 3:30.
>> Okay.
>> Because that's when their chicken comes out fresh.
>> I did not.
>> So, and he wanted chicken breast. So, >> which shop was it?
>> Um right there by my house off of um Mexico and K >> Mexico loop road there. Yeah. Like across the street from the home.
>> Yeah. So, that was like 3:30 when I left. So, we came home, we ate, and that was it. It was rainy out and stuff like that, so we didn't go out. Walked my dog a couple more times, watched the Olympics.
Um, went to bed. Woke up this morning like I always do, and um fed my dog, walked them, and showered. Um, headed out to do errands and run around. I always stop at KICO. I I want to just slow you down a little bit because we're starting to rush through today. So, you woke up. What time did you wake up this morning?
>> Um about 7:30. Well, actually, I was up earlier because I had to go let my son's dogs out. Um >> probably about 7:15.
>> Okay. So, you wake up >> 7:15. I forgot I did that. Sorry.
>> That's good.
>> Um went and let my son's dogs out cuz he wasn't home.
>> Where does your son live?
>> Uh like four streets over.
>> Oh, okay. Close.
>> Yeah, that's where my nephew lives with him. I drive there.
>> Drive there. and uh let his dogs out, fed them, waited till they did their thing. Then I came back home and took care of my dog, fed them, walked them um got in the shower, um and headed out and I had to get gas.
So I went to Kico down the street where I go every morning, get my soda. And >> which one's the Kico?
>> Um right past BP. It's across from like the fire station.
>> The real little one.
>> Yeah. down kind of down in the valley.
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> By Magnolia Street.
>> And you get that like every morning, you said?
>> Every morning I go there cuz I got a little car that got free.
>> About what time was that, do you think?
>> Um probably about 9 9:15.
>> Okay.
>> Um so I filled up, got my take five card, got my soda. Um headed up towards um the mall.
and >> Mid Rivers.
>> Yeah. Headed up toward I don't think I went to Mid Rivers yet. Um I was looking for uh secondhand stores cuz my sister-in-law is coming in town and that's what she does. She has stores and she puts stuff in. So I was looking for new ones cuz she was just here a couple weeks ago. So I went up Mexico Road um and looked for a couple of them. I went up to Old Fallon. Um I knew I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. Did you when you you went from Kico and then went straight to do this like up to the mall?
>> I'm just running around looking for it wasn't at the mall yet because they're not open yet. I don't think they open till 10 or whatever. So, I'm looking for stores for when she's coming in the 9th of September that we can go to. And so, I went up Mexico looking. I went to Old Fallon um down throughout that way looking. I found a new one on um K just looking for new ones. So, I was driving around looking for new ones.
Then I headed up to towards the mall, but I don't know because I was down Mexico. So, I just went to the mall.
Went to Mexico to Mid Rivers.
>> Did you check Did like you say I checked I was looking for them or found some. I checked them out. Did you like go in any of these?
>> No.
>> Shop. You were just like looking for the locations.
>> We were in them when she was just here a week ago. So, we did a full week of that. So, no, >> I did not. I'm just trying to find sites for her. Um, so I got all the way to Mid Rivers and I went down Mexico to Mid Rivers. Went down Mid Rivers to the mall and I was going to go into um I had to go to the bathroom. So, where did I stop?
I want to say um Oh, the bread company right there by uh >> I don't know. bread company >> like the one here in the valley or no by the mall by the mall.
>> Is that by Barnes & Noble?
>> No, >> it's across the street. It's by What's Pure Wine?
>> Okay. It's right by Pier One. I think it's new.
>> I stopped in there. Went to the bathroom.
>> Okay.
>> And um cuz I've been drinking my soda.
So, stopped in there.
>> What time do you think that might have been? Like just before 10:00 or you said the mall opens at 10.
>> They open at 10:00. Yeah. Um, I don't know what time it was. I wasn't looking at the clock or anything like that. Um, I was going to go into Pier 1 and I didn't change my mind cuz it was right there. So, um, I went up to go up to Hobby Lobby, which is off of Cave Springs.
>> Yep. On the ramp.
>> And, um, I went up there and I decided not to go in there. And since I was up there, my daughter lives up that way and she's a teacher, so I didn't know if she was in school yet, so I went by her house to see if she was home. And um I didn't see her car, so I drove back and that's when um I was going to go back to the mall.
So I came home cuz I knew I had to let the dog out then. So I came home, let the dog out.
>> So you by I'm sorry, you by whose house?
>> My daughter lives off of Sarah. Okay.
>> Go ahead. I'm sorry I mean to interrupt.
>> Um, >> you say she lives off of what?
>> Um, you take First Capital. I don't want people to say it on TV.
>> I I understand.
>> She's a teacher, so I don't She don't need that. Um, off of First Capital.
>> Um, and she wasn't there. I just drove down the street. She wasn't there.
>> Sure. Um, so, um, >> so you said you circle back and went home.
>> Yeah, I just went I got caught the or came back down and went through um, just cut through where Lynon Wood is. She lives right there. Cut through there and got on the highway and went home.
>> Okay.
And then what? Um, I got home, opened up the garage, pulled in, got my dog, walked him out in front so we could go pee, and he did. He did his thing. Um, went back, put him inside, gave him a treat. Came back out. I was going to run back up to the mall. Uh, I was supposed to pick up a purchase that I from Best Buy. Had to make an appointment. My appointment's Friday. I was going to run up there, see if I could get it early. Um, so I was going to run back up there and as I I started pulling out and got halfway out, I noticed as I was backing out that a car came down really fast down the cross street and whipped around right in front of my driveway cuz I'm right at the end.
Here's the cross street and here's my driveway. So they came out and did this right in front of my driveway. And I looked up because it was so fast and startling and somebody jumped out and I was like, "Wow, somebody I don't know what I thought.
Somebody was hurt. I don't know what was going on." It was so fast. And then he ran up. I was halfway out the drive where I was parked and he jumped in my car. I opened up the door and jumped in my car.
>> Which door?
>> The uh passenger >> front or back?
>> Oh, front.
>> Passenger front.
>> Mhm.
>> Go ahead.
>> And um he had a bunch of stuff in his hands. I don't know what he had, but he had a knife also, but he had something in his other arm. I don't know what he had. And um he put a knife and kept going um just yelling random stuff like you're going to take me to the bank and get Russ's money. Take me to the bank. You're going to take me to the bank. He put a knife up to my throat there and was yelling stuff and um he kept looking behind him like this. So I didn't I had put it in gear and I was thinking how I was going to get out of there when he was looking. And he kept yelling coming back. And then he looked back again and I hit his arm with the knife and then shot out of the car and ran inside.
>> Okay. So you were I I just want to make sure I understand. So you were all you had already been home, fed the dog, gave him a treat, and you were getting ready to leave. So when you when you got home, did you leave the car in the driveway or did you pull in the garage?
>> I was in the garage.
>> Okay.
>> So you pulled the car all the way in?
>> Yes.
>> And then you got out and you tended to the dog.
No, I did not pull it in the garage. I always pull it in the garage when I'm going to stay, but no, I stayed right there cuz I was leaving.
>> Okay. So, right where it was. It was still running. Yeah. I just ran into to let him out.
>> Okay. So, you were only in the house just a couple couple minutes more.
>> Oh, not even a couple minutes. Just enough. Put his leash on. I brought him out, walked him, blah blah blah.
>> Okay.
>> All that kind of stuff.
>> How do you go in the house when you pulled in the driveway to go in? How did you go in the house? Through what door?
>> The garage door.
>> Okay. the garage big one was open. I ran through the garage door.
>> Okay. So then kind of rushed through that. I just want to make sure I understand. So you went in, you let the dog out, you gave him a treat, you're ready to leave again. So you come back out of the house. How you exit the house? How?
>> Out the same door.
>> Same door.
>> Yeah. I let him in the same door cuz the front door was locked.
>> Okay.
>> So it was coming in and I come in and out that door. um came out that door, got back in the car, >> okay, >> to go again.
>> Okay.
>> And that's when the car shot around and somebody jumped out. Before I knew it, they were sitting next to me.
>> Okay. So, let's first describe the car.
Can Can you give a description of the vehicle?
>> Well, I wasn't really paying attention to the vehicle. More of the um shriekness of their tires that they did.
It was a just a silver um wasn't as small as like a little Toyota. A little bit bigger but not a big one. Sedan was four doors.
>> So four-door mid you say midsize. Is that >> Yeah, probably midsize.
>> Wasn't brand new.
>> Um I mean as you reflect back, do you remember anything anything specific about other than being silver and being four doors? Anything on that? You said it wasn't that new or anything else.
>> It wasn't like shiny like you could tell it was like my crash. I just had a 2004 Honda kind of like older like that, you know. Not that I was piece of crap or anything, but it was Yeah, >> it was a veteran car.
>> Yeah. Grocery getter. And um that's all I remember. But it was just so fast. Like I wasn't really even looking at the car. It was like, what's this hastiness that this car is doing?
This quickness. I didn't know what was going on. It was just getting it was just weird. It was getting weird. And it was like cuz they tore around. He popped out and I'm like, my first thought was did I know him? Because they did it so fast. But then I was like, and I looked back down and next thing I knew he was there. So, >> okay. So, as I I was I was up there for a few minutes and I noticed that there was an orange car parked on the street.
>> That's my next door neighbor's car.
>> My next door neighbor's car. Okay. I wasn't sure. I didn't know where that broke >> down. Okay.
>> So, I'm trying to remember how your street is. Which way did the So, if you're sitting in your car pointed at the >> garage >> garage, which way did this car come from?
>> Um, right here, the right side. That That little street there. I don't know what it's called. So, the street behind you.
>> Behind me? Yes.
>> Is the way I And I'll probably have you draw it out later, but So, not So, the street behind you. I know what you're talking about. I don't remember being there.
>> It's almost It's directly behind my neighbor's driveway when I'm over. So, I can I could see them whip around, come out of there, and all they did was come right around right to my house.
>> Okay. So, he jumps out of the car. He jumps into the passenger front side of your car.
>> Mhm.
>> And >> where does he jump out of the silver car from?
>> I don't know. They asked me that. I really wasn't paying attention. I I want to say the back seat, but that may not be true.
I keep trying to remember. I thought, and that may not be true.
>> Were there other people in the vehicle?
>> There was a drive. All I saw was a driver um because he squealled away. So, I was like, "What the hell?" and he looked >> What was the most distinctive thing about the driver that you remember?
>> Dark hair was kind of like a buzzcut um and dark skin like um Hispanic maybe something like that. What crosses my mind? I don't know. It could be anybody. I don't know if they were Hispanic but um that's what crossed my mind.
>> Okay. So, you got to you got somewhat of a look of the driver.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. Because when he started to whip around, I all I saw was like a dark dome. Sorry. But um >> short hair like you.
>> Short maybe not quite as short, but it was dark and I was And that's foreign in that neighborhood. It's all the same people.
>> Were there windows open in their vehicle, you know?
>> Uh no, not that I saw. Not that I remember.
>> And so that's the only other person you saw in the vehicle that you could remember. Yeah, because I really wasn't looking for people. I just noticed him when he went real fast to turn and I looked up and I just happened to see the driver because that's who was coming around and didn't even see the other person until they whipped in front of my driveway and he got out cuz at then I wasn't really I wasn't just staring at him when it first happened and I heard it and I saw it. I was like it was just weird. And then they hurried and I looked up again and they that's when they whipped and I was like this is weird and kind of looked down again because I'm getting about my business and they didn't keep going. He got out and then the other guy squealled away real fast and he was already there before.
>> So the guy squealled away before >> before he Well, words at what point did he get out? Did he squeal away?
>> Well, >> with with in in comparison to what the other guy was doing, >> right? As soon as he pulled around and I wasn't looking again, I looked back down to put, you know, to get ready to go and stuff and um pulled around and I looked up again. The guy had shot out. When he pulled around, the guy like shot out and I looked down again and thought it's kind of strange.
I don't even know if I thought it was strange, but it was weird. And so I looked up again as he was getting out and he squealled right off. The guy squealled right off. Like I assume he shut the door, but I don't even know cuz I wasn't looking at that.
I could hear it in that. And I was more looking at like who's getting out of the car, you know? Is it somebody I know?
Cuz they're right in front of my driveway.
>> Okay.
So So that guy squeals away. The other guy jumps in the passenger seat of the car.
I know you described him as having a knife in one hand and something else in another.
>> Yeah. Well, he had popped in when he opened up the door and I don't know what I even what I was thinking. I don't even I don't even know. He just was in there so fast, but I know he was jumbling something in this arm and had a knife in the other hand and then um he switched somehow. I don't know if he set his stuff down or dropped it. I don't know what he did, but he had to put the knife in the other hand then. So, um, and that's when he put it up here.
>> Okay. You're using your right hand. Is that Are you right or left-handed?
>> I'm right-handed.
>> Okay. Did you use your right hand cuz you're right-handed or did you use your right hand cuz that's how you recall it when happened or >> um that's how I recall that it happened cuz he had something in his right hand when he first got in and then the first few seconds I didn't see a knife or anything. I know he just had stuff, you know, and I was just like freaked out and then all of a sudden he dropped stuff and then he had a knife.
So I don't I'm guessing right.
>> Okay. So, what if anything did he say?
>> He said, "You're going to take me to the bank and get Russ's money. We're going now, so get going." Type stuff. And he just kept yelling stuff like that at me.
And um so at this time, I still don't I don't have it in gear or anything or I do have it. No, I don't have it in gear. And I had put it in gear to go cuz I didn't know what to do. And then I that's when I noticed he was looking back. I don't know what if he was looking because cars I don't know what he was looking at but he kept looking back and I noticed that.
So I put it back in the gear and he said get going right now. We're going to the bank and then he looked back again like this and I hit his arm and I shot out of the car.
>> So when you say put it back in the gear, >> you mean you put it back in park?
>> Mhm.
>> Okay.
>> So my plan was to get out of the car somehow. So when he came up approached you at the car door and got in your the vehicle was in reverse with your foot on the brake.
>> Yes.
>> Okay.
I don't know. I don't know if it was still in park or in reverse.
>> I don't know. I'm not sure.
>> Okay. So, we described you kind of described the guy in the >> I think it was in reverse, but I'm I can't swear to it. I don't know if I put it in reverse when he said let's go or if I already had it in reverse. I don't know because I kept looking at him and kind of what was I was miscomled on what the hell was going on with the situation and next thing I know he's there >> at that point.
>> No, you know what? I don't think I I think I No, it wasn't I wasn't in gear.
My car was running. I had left my car running when I came out. I came out so it was in park.
>> Okay.
>> So, I don't think I ever did put it in gear.
>> Okay. Okay. So, you describe the the the driver of the vehicle to the best, you know, to the best of your ability what you saw. Describe the guy that got in the vehicle with you.
>> The guy who got in with me, he had on shorts. He had on blue shorts, shortish hair, sandy blonde.
>> And now, forgive me. I I have not I did not go in the scene. I have not been in the scene. So, is he a white male, black male? Oh, I'm sorry. Hispanic male.
>> He's white male.
>> Um who's taller than me.
>> Um he had blue gym shorts on um and some sort of t-shirt and sandy blonde hair.
And I want to say his eyes were blue, but I'm not sure. It's not like they were like a bright blue or anything like that. noticeable, but I want to say they were light colored eyes.
They weren't brown.
>> Okay.
>> I don't think I could be wrong. I really wasn't looking at his face.
>> Notice anything any smells?
>> He didn't No, he didn't smell. The only thing I noticed was as he's yelling and getting more and more upset, he was slurring his words. I thought he was drunk. I didn't smell anything at all, but he did have I don't know what he had with him, but he kept like the more he kept repeating himself, he was getting all excited and he was I thought he was drunk or on drugs or something like that because I couldn't understand him half the time, >> right?
>> He was yelling crap. I couldn't even understand.
>> Okay.
>> So, he was slurring his words, but you didn't really smell of anything at all.
>> I didn't smell anything.
>> Was he sweaty? Was he dirty. Was he clean?
>> Well, he didn't stink.
>> Okay. Is he >> I didn't notice like greasy hair like a homeless person or anything like that.
>> Okay.
>> Um he just looked like a normal person to me.
>> Okay.
>> I mean, he wasn't clean cut like like you guys. Like you're groomed, >> but he wasn't dirty cuz I didn't smell anything or see like nasty hair or anything. What what age about what age would you put him in?
>> I don't know. Late 30s.
>> And of course, it begs the question, I I don't know that we just asked you straight. Have you ever seen this guy before?
>> No.
>> Don't know him? Um, does it look like somebody you've seen somewhere before with somebody else? I mean as you as you remember back you know as you picture him in your mind um there there is you cannot make any link between this guy and and you know I mean I wasn't looking directly at his face. I was trying not to look at him. I do know when he did get in there was something familiar about him, but I don't know him. So, I don't know if I I don't know.
He seemed familiar like I should know him, but I do not know him.
>> And forgive me if if Kevin asks this.
Did he have I know you say he's a Caucasian male, >> but did he have any type of accent that was noticeable to you? I didn't know cuz he was he was bumbling, slurring, and at first I didn't really notice anything, but like said he was getting so excited and stuff. He as he was yelling at me, I mean, it was like he was drunk. I mean, he was I literally like his tongue was this thick. I didn't know what was going on. I figured he was on something, alcohol or something. I didn't know. I I knew something was not right because as he was getting excited, it was getting worse.
>> Okay. The slurring was getting worse.
The stumbling on his words. Okay.
>> Yeah. I couldn't hardly understand what he was saying. I could pick out like certain words, but he said one phrase inside make no sense. He said, you know, I think he said it out in the garage or out in the car, too. Um something about killing my wife, something. And I'm like, who am I? I mean, I didn't say anything, but it was weird his wording.
>> He said that out in the car.
>> He said it out in a car yelling at me.
And when he was saying he was going to kill me.
>> Okay.
So, what are the things of the things that you could understand him say? What are the things that he said to you?
>> He Well, first it was kind of clear in the car because he wanted me to go to the bank to get Russ's money. And >> how did he say that?
>> He said he said some curse words and then he said we're going >> We can say those here.
>> Yeah. Which be >> tell us what he said.
>> Okay. Well, a lot I couldn't understand, but he said when he first got in and he had the I was I think I was yelling at him. I don't even remember. I think I was like, "Who are you? Get out of my car." Blah blah blah. And he was like, "Bitch, we're going to the bank." And I'm like then my mind just starts swirling cuz I'm like, "Going to the bank? this is so freaking weird. And I'm like, I'm not going to the bank with you. Get out of my car. And he goes, [ __ ] you go, we're going to the bank.
We're getting Russ's money. And he start getting all agitated and excited. And that's when I really, he was yelling things. I wasn't listening cuz I was forming how the hell I was going to get out of the car. So, he was yammering crap. Couldn't really understand him at that point. And my thought was to get the the knife away and get the heck out of the car. That's all I was thinking about at that point. What he was saying, I don't know. As I ran into the garage, he ran after me. I heard the car door shut and he was yammering stuff again about killing me. Again, my focus was to get in the house. I know I had my phone in my pocket. I was trying to dial 911.
I think I did it three times before it went through on my cell phone. By then, I was inside and he was trying to get the door. I was trying to hold the door.
I couldn't get it locked in. And I was trying to get 911 on the phone and he was saying stuff and then the door flew.
He got in, it flew open and I ran into the bedroom. He was yelling stuff and as I was going in the bedroom something again about killing my wife, him and Stevie. Me and Stevie, you're going to kill your wife. And so I don't know who that is. I don't know a Steven or a Stevie or Steve. I don't know what he was talking about. He was so then so but it was really hard. It's like his sentences weren't formed by then.
>> And so none of it made any sense. But he did keep saying get in the car. I ran in the bedroom. I tried to, you know, I shut that door. I was trying to get it locked. Wouldn't latch. Got a problem with the door. And um I got my gun, turned around, got my gun. I stand right there and he was pounding on the door.
And once it flew open, that's when I shot him. And I just kept shooting him cuz he just kept standing there.
>> How many times did you say you pulled the trigger?
>> I unloaded the whole gun.
>> Okay. So, you pulled the trigger until it stop.
>> I just kept pulling till it stopped.
>> Okay. So, and again, because I haven't been there yet, and I don't know what I don't know what it looks like. Um, did any rounds go? Are are there going to be any bullet holes in the door uh into the bedroom or do you think that the door was fully >> I was in the bedroom.
>> I understand that. But you said the door flew open. So I didn't >> Yeah, I didn't start shooting until that door flew open and he was standing right there ready to approach into the bedroom and I just started shooting and walking towards him cuz I want be I wanted to be sure I hit him because everybody kept saying that's a little gun and blah blah blah and I could better be club.
So once that door opened and he was there, I just started shooting and walking towards him until I didn't have anyone.
>> Okay. Um I don't want to jump too far ahead too fast, but um inside the room, how's your I'm going to have I'm You know what I'm going to end up doing is I'm going to end up getting some pieces of paper and having you sketch out some things like your bedroom.
>> You know what? If this garage door is here, bedroom's right there.
>> No, I know. But like I'm talking about No, I understand that. like where the bed is inside. Like I I need I just want to figure out where you were standing, where he was standing.
>> Um >> I'm standing right >> because I have not walked in the house.
I have no I I can All I can do is go off the visual of what you're telling me. I I other than that, I haven't seen any pictures or anything.
>> Yeah, there's only three pieces of furniture in the bedroom >> and the nightstand as you walk in the door is right here. So I ran right for it, got my gun.
>> Okay, so the bed is the bed on the far wall. Yeah, >> let me let me get you know what? I'm going to step out for a second, get some white pieces of paper, and I'll be right back. So, sit right.
>> Should I tell him or just wait? Just hold on. Let me just get a piece of paper. It's easier >> to visualize it if we're seeing it actually drawn.
You good on water?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
What type of gun?
What type of gun do you own? I mean, you know, was in the nightstand.
>> You said it was a little gun. I didn't know. I >> was going to say a 32.
>> Is that a gun?
>> It's got a >> be a 380.
>> Well, maybe that's it. I just got for Christmas last year.
>> Okay.
>> After the one girl stalked me. I got That's what I got for Christmas present >> for husband.
How long you guys been married?
>> 35 years.
>> Oh boy. Congratulations on my marriage.
That's a long time.
Okay, let's do this.
Why don't we So, let's I guess for this one, since we're talking about the bedroom right now, why don't you draw >> the bedroom?
>> The bedroom. Okay.
>> Like where the bed is. You talk about the nightstand. Where's the nightstand?
Where's the door? Where you were standing?
>> Garage door.
Here's the bedroom door.
Not the other way. Um, inside the bedroom.
So, here's a wall. It's a little wall.
And here is the basement door.
>> Where does this wall go? Like that?
>> It goes right to this doorway.
>> Okay.
>> It's It's a little hallway and there's three doors. This door, that door, and that door. There's nowhere to go. Okay.
And >> when you say garage, do you mean the door that goes into the residence from the garage? Yes.
door and this comes to here. It's really not like it's just three doors right there in a little circle. And so you go in here and here's a long window.
Here's a long window with the drapes.
And here is a nightstand.
That's where my gun is.
The bed is right here.
And along this wall here is a dresser.
And here is the bathroom.
Those are pretty much the only three things in the >> That's all that's in there.
>> That's all that's in there. So, as he was pushing on the door and I'm trying to dial 911 and hold him, hoping he'd get tired of it and and leave and he didn't. I was just holding trying to keep him from coming in. As he pushed the door open, I ran right in here to my nightstand. I shut the door, ran toward the nightstand, came back around here.
As he was pounding on the door, door flew open. I was probably standing anywhere like here as it flew open. He's right there and I just start shooting.
I'm walking out towards him shooting.
>> Okay. So, you just said like he's standing there. Were you that close in proximity to >> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> Um can I ask a couple questions?
Absolutely.
>> So, when you you said you came he came in through here, correct? Mhm.
>> When you came in through here and you got through and you said you held him off for a bit, were you able to shut the door?
>> Yeah.
>> Or was it a struggle over the door?
>> Yeah, it was a struggle over the door and me trying to call 911 >> at the same time.
>> Yeah. Because he was right behind me.
So, I shut the door and I couldn't get it locked and I was reaching for my phone and I dialed 911 with a >> Is your phone kept in your pocket or do you have a clip?
>> Pocket.
>> Okay.
>> I always keep them in my back pocket.
So, I was calling 911 and he's trying I'm just holding the door because I couldn't get it locked because it wouldn't the little latch he kept pushing, you know, was coming over.
>> What type of latch is it?
>> Well, just I mean the door knob like the knob like you need it closed to be able to lock it and button lock.
>> I think it's a little turn one dead bolt >> or it's on the handle.
>> Yeah. It's like a little So, I couldn't get that and dial 911. It was more important for me to dial 911 in my head. So I was trying to get some help and just a few seconds just a few seconds 911 came on I started yelling and he burst through the door.
>> So when you So you're here in this door >> you come in he's right on your tail as you said.
>> You weren't able to get the door shut or you were?
>> I were.
>> You was able to get the door shut?
>> I was.
>> But you weren't able to lock it.
>> No.
>> Okay. And this is at the point where you made your first 911 call where you spoke to somebody.
>> Did not the first time.
>> You did not. It was just you.
>> It wouldn't go through.
>> Okay.
>> So, I did it again.
>> Okay. And you did it again here.
>> Yeah. I'm standing the whole time against the door trying to keep him out.
And he's pushing the door. We're going back and forth.
>> And how are you holding the door with what part of your body?
>> Um I think I'm just leaning against it.
I don't I think I was doing different things. At first I was doing my hands till I got my phone and then I was trying to use my back and then I was trying to use my side. So I was whatever depending on how forceful he was getting what I was using as I'm trying to redial.
>> Okay. So that's your first time and you used I guess your fingers aren't working.
>> No, they were >> just couldn't get through 911 though.
>> It wouldn't go through. I mean get my phone. Well, actually, that's actually I'm glad you brought that up because it Do you mind if we take a look at your phone and see because I I would love to see what the 911 call >> bring it in here because I'd like to see too.
>> Well, it's out on the desk, but we'll >> Yeah, I would see how many times I dialed.
>> Yeah, I'm just cur I just wanted to >> I want to say a couple times I dialed it trying to get through. I could see it wasn't going through. I couldn't hear anybody, so I would just hang up, try again, try again. And I'm just And he's bumping me on the door and stuff. So then he just was once I got them I was focused on that and he pushed it open and >> So when you got a hold of through when you got through with 911 you were still in this vicinity.
>> Yes.
>> All right. So then you get a hold of them.
>> Mhm.
>> And you stayed there until either he pushed through or did you ret retreat first?
>> No, he pushed through.
>> He pushed through.
>> He pushed through too much. I couldn't hold him back anymore. So I retreated and ran.
>> Okay. And then you ran through here into your bedroom door. Yes.
>> All right. And where was he at when you reached your door?
Where was he at?
>> Was he still behind there or was on this? Was he on?
>> He was behind me. I don't know. As soon as I went in there, I shut the door and ran to there. I wasn't even paying attention where anybody was. I was just going for my gun.
>> And you shut the door here, you said?
>> Yes, I shut the door.
>> And you tried to lock it, but it's you.
>> No, I didn't try to lock it. Or you can't lock it.
>> Okay. Cuz I remember >> I don't know if I tried. I might have tried it, but you have to lift It's actually You have to lift up the door cuz it's not even and stuff like that.
So, I may have tried to lock it. What? I I think I just ran there.
>> Okay.
>> I don't know if I shut it and tried to lock it and gave it earlier. You said that door had problems.
>> It does. Yeah, you can't lock it unless you want to take them in, push it up, and align it and and lock it.
>> Um, so, >> and you're still on the phone with 911 at this point?
>> I'm still on Well, I still have them on the phone. Yes. I wasn't listening to what they were doing. I just had the phone because I was concentrating on other stuff. Is he saying anything through this point?
>> This is where he starts yelling that crap again about killing my wife. Him and Stevie killing my wife or some weird bizarre crap and get in the car. He just kept yelling get in the car and I'm I don't know what I said. I don't know if I said no. I get out. I don't know what I said.
>> All right. But you're still on the phone with 911?
>> Yes.
>> All right. Still.
>> And you're on the phone with 911 when you come through your bedroom?
>> I'm on the one the whole time till I get till you guys come. I'm on the phone with them.
>> Okay. All right.
So, you come through the door.
>> Mhm.
>> And you go straight to your night dresser.
>> Correct.
>> Where when you reach your night dresser, do you know where he's at at this point?
>> I do not.
>> Okay. Where within your night dresser is your gun located?
>> Um there's a drawer and then there's two pull doors. It's right in the door.
Sitting right there.
>> So, you just open it up and it's right there on a shelf.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. And you always keep it loaded.
>> Yep.
>> Since I got followed last year.
>> All right. And we like he said, we haven't looked at the gun.
>> No, I haven't looked at it.
>> So, is it a automatic? Is it a revolver?
>> It's got the little spin thing.
>> Okay.
>> So, you put the bullets in and it >> Okay.
>> Spins.
>> Is that gun registered to you or your husband?
>> Uh me. I think me. We went to um Denny Dennison's down south and got it.
>> Okay. last year.
>> So, it's a revolver.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Right.
>> Yeah.
>> And you've just always kept it in the the door.
>> Yes. My husband's gun is in there also.
There's also a shotgun from his father that he just got that stands up next to it by the window here.
>> Okay. So, there's there's two extra there's two other firearms right in that vicinity.
>> And I think he might have another hunting gun, shotgun maybe. I'm not sure. He just Excuse me. He just got that one. His father died and his brother gave it to him. It's never been shot. It is loaded. His theory is use the shotgun, not the handgun, because that will get him for sure. That's just what everybody kept saying to me, but I not comfortable with that. I do shoot the revolver. We do go out to land and shoot. So, >> all right. So, you you grab the revolver.
>> Mhm. And as soon as you grab it, where's And you turn around. Where is he at at that point?
>> You're banging on the door.
>> Banging on this door.
>> Mhm.
>> Okay.
>> Cuz I turned around, grabbed it. I have it. I have a case there. I had it sitting. It's not zipped up or anything like that.
>> It's in a case that's not zipped.
>> Correct.
>> Okay.
>> It's in a case that not So, I just reached in, grabbed it, turned around, and >> Where's your phone at at this time?
>> Um, in my other hand. In my hand.
>> All right.
>> Because I'm still yelling.
Yeah, I hid in my hand the whole time.
Yeah.
>> And I turned around to come this way and I was just waiting to see if he broke, which I knew he would cuz I couldn't lock it. And I just stood there.
>> All right.
>> And it was just a couple seconds.
>> It stood where?
>> One of these exits. I'm not sure.
>> At the edge of your bed.
>> It's so small in there. You'll see there's not really anywhere to go. I mean, cuz the door is right there. So I turned around, reached in, I grabbed it, turned around, and I just was waiting to see if he broke in or if he would get scared and run away.
>> And you say he break in through this door. Did he open the door or break the door?
>> He didn't. I don't know if he opened it or if it popped open because it doesn't latch very well.
>> So I don't know if because his pounding opened it or he opened it. I don't know.
>> It opened. Okay.
>> It flew open and I started shooting.
>> Okay. We're trying to I understand.
trying to remember.
>> Some of these questions might seem >> No, I'm trying to in my mind trying to be rude. It's just like >> and we just want to make sure we're clear on everything.
>> My first thought was not only to get my gun, but equals the first thought was don't drop my phone cuz I wanted him to be able to find me if he got me in the car.
>> Let me ask you this. When he came into this room, >> did he have anything in his hands?
I don't know.
>> I don't know. He was just standing there.
>> Well, I understand. But when he got out of the car and he chased you up to this door, do you remember at any point during this time him having something in his hand?
>> No. But I don't remember him not having anything either. I don't at that point when he was chasing me, it's always to my back. So I don't know.
And then when I was doing the door, I couldn't see him. So, as I start running to my bedroom and he started yelling stuff and um I think I did actually turn around once when he starts saying jibbling some stuff about killing my wife or whatever that whatever he was saying and I kind of turned around. I don't know. He was still yelling get in the car and I think I was still yelling back at him. So, not sure how that interaction went as I'm trying to get into my bedroom, but he was still just coming in saying all this stuff. So, I don't know if he had anything I don't remember him having anything in his hand.
>> Okay. When he came when he came through the door here?
>> Mhm.
>> You don't remember him having his hands?
>> No.
>> Do you remember him saying anything at that point?
>> I don't remember that. No, I don't remember. All I remember and just kind of blanked out there is that once that door flew open cuz I was so hoping it wouldn't. Once it did, I just start shooting. And my thought I just moved forward on him and kept shooting. My thought was to try to get past this doorway.
>> At what point did you know you hit him?
>> I knew I hit him the first time or I thought I hit him the first time, but he just stood there and looked at me. And so I did I was just kept on shooting cuz he was just standing there like so I assumed I hit him cuz I was this close. I was so close.
>> So you're legitimately >> I'm looking at him.
>> So the first time you shot him, would you say you're further than this away from him? Me and you >> maybe this far.
>> So and the from here to you >> and the door opens out. The door open >> it opens into the bedroom.
>> Okay. So yeah. So if I was coming in your bedroom, it would open this way or this way.
>> Towards me. Yes. So I'm standing here and in one of these positions here in front of the door. It swings open. I'm standing there. I'm ready. Okay.
>> And it swings open and we're just eye to eye. And I just started shooting and walking forward cuz my first thought was to get past this door jam.
>> Okay.
>> Didn't even think about I'm shooting him, hitting him. Wasn't thinking about that. I knew I had to get around this person and get back out somehow. At what point did he fall? Do you remember?
>> I had shot quite a few times >> before you fell.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Quite a few times.
>> If you had to guess on how many shots you think you fired?
>> I don't know. I did all of them that was in there and I think it was full.
>> Do you know how many Do you know how many rounds go in that particular weapon? Six.
>> I'm guessing I unloaded all of them. I think it was full, but I don't know for sure. But I think it was it did not seem when I hear it in my head that's I heard six booms.
But >> So do you think you hit him all six times?
>> I do.
>> You do?
>> Yeah. Cuz I I walked I walked as close to him as I could till he fell down.
>> Did he say anything?
>> No. When that door flew open, he just looked at me and I just started shooting right away. I don't He didn't even have time to respond. I don't even know if he saw that I had that. I don't know if he even knew what he was going to do when he did that cuz he was so heightened by then.
>> But when you start shooting at him, but by the time you fired your you open the door and you fired your first shot until you left the residence, >> did he say anything else? Did he verbalize anything else?
>> He never moved out the floor.
>> Okay.
>> Never moved. I stepped I got my dog.
>> Where was your dog at during this whole thing?
>> Um running around going nuts.
>> Okay.
He didn't know what was going on.
>> So with you standing right about here.
>> Mhm.
>> Did you shoot directly? Would you say straight at the doorway at an angle of the doorway? Do I mean do you remember?
>> I I don't know about angles. All I know is when it flew open and I was standing in the vicinity of facing the door, as soon as it opened, I started and I started walking at the same time right at him.
So, the door is cut at an angle. It's not flat like this anyway.
>> Oh, it's not.
>> Now, it's one of those because you got three doors and it curves. It's on an angle anyway. So, all I knew is >> I was hoping he didn't get through it, >> but if the door came open, I was going to be ready. And and when it did and we locked eyes, I just right away I started shooting and walking towards him, kept shooting cuz I started and he just stood there and I was like it wasn't working. But I I think it was it just wasn't I didn't see anything at first. He didn't fall at first and then he fell. And um I already got my dog and went outside. I still had the phone. And >> let me ask you this. So when you go to the range and how you you you showed us. So the door opens up and you start shooting. Where's your cell phone out this time?
>> I still have it in my hand. I'm shooting. I still have my >> You're shooting with the cell phone in your hand.
>> I I must have used one hand cuz I never put the phone down. I had that gal on the the line the whole time.
>> So do you think you fire those?
>> Well, that's how I do it at the range. I had to use one hand cuz I still when I went outside it was in my left hand my phone when I was talking to her or as I was walking out I'm giving her my address. Please come please come 1260 cuz she's going what's your address and all that. So I was talking to her but I'm right-handed so I had to use one hand and shoot him.
>> So did you fire do you believe you fired those shots while you were on the 911 >> while you were on the phone with the 911 dispatch?
>> Absolutely. Yes, I was on with 911 from the time he started breaking in.
>> I was on it until I went out. I got my dog went out in the garage. She said, "You guys are coming." She was still talking to me. I still saying they're not here. They're not here. Cuz it seemed like forever. And once you guys came, she goes, "They're there. Hang up." And I did. So the whole thing was on 911 call.
>> When you walked out, where'd you put the gun?
I left the Well, after I shot him, I um left I put the gun on the bed >> cuz I didn't want to carry it out. I didn't want anybody to get freaked out and shoot me.
>> Okay. So, it's just laying on the bed.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
And it should be should have no more live rounds in it.
>> I kept it start clicking so they get stuck or there's some hit. I don't know.
But I kept clicking and clicking and clicking and it just wouldn't come out anymore.
So when you stepped over him >> Mhm.
>> where did where did you go?
>> I went right. He's here with a little land.
>> I think he's up like against here.
That's how he fell.
>> And excuse me.
>> And these are all compact. So I had to step over them. And really the garage doors here and I went out the door >> and then >> I went and got my dog out of the living room first >> after you stepped over.
>> Mhm.
>> There was no way to get around him. He's laying right there in front of my door.
>> Okay. And when you stepped over him, he wasn't moving. Did you make any observations of him when you stepped over him?
>> No. No. I was worried about getting my dog getting out of there. All I knew is he was down and he wasn't moving as far as I could tell or saying anything. So that was good for me at that point.
>> Do you know I mean do you know where where you hit him? I mean was were you I mean did you take aim right here? I was going right for the mass.
>> Okay.
>> Okay.
>> I know I'm not good enough shot to shoot you in the head cuz I was too >> When's the last time you went to the range before this? I've never been to the range.
>> Are you you I'm sorry. You and your husband go out shooting, you said.
>> Yeah, that was last fall. Last fall.
>> So about a year ago almost. Quite shot.
Just shy of a year.
>> Mhm.
>> Okay. So that's the first time you shoot >> I grew up shooting. No, I grew up shooting.
>> Oh. Was that the first time you shot that gun?
>> Yes. Yes. Mhm.
>> Cuz you said you got broke.
>> You got that for Christmas?
>> Yeah.
>> Where'd you buy that?
>> Um what did I say? Denny.
>> Something with a D. I thought >> Denny Dennison.
>> Dennis. Dennis. Denny Denn something like that.
>> Two first names.
>> All right. So, you stayed on the phone until we got there, correct?
>> What time did your husband go to work this morning?
>> He goes, he lays about 6:30 maybe. Really early.
>> And no one else visit today at your house besides these guys who showed up.
There's no one else that was in your house today. Not that I know.
>> I would hope not.
>> But nobody didn't have any friends over.
No, I had no friends over and there's nobody else.
>> I'm sorry. That's what I meant.
>> It's just me and my husband.
>> Okay. That's what I meant. All right.
>> So, so stepping back just kind of in the timeline prior in the day. Um, right.
>> And I just want to make sure we didn't miss any miss any big gaps or anything.
You know, 9:15, you go to Kico, get the soda. You went looking for thrift stores. You went to the mall. I'm sorry.
You went to stop at Bread Company by Pier 1 for the restroom. You went to Hobby Lobby. Didn't go in. You went and checked on your daughter. Um, and then this call, what time did this call come up? What time did we get the 911 call? Do you I don't even know. I have to double check.
>> Um, somewhere around 11 I'll guess around 11:50, 12:00, but I'm not certain on that. It had to be that because I came back home and let my dog out and uh I only let him go a few hours at a time because he's still young.
>> Did you eat lunch?
>> He didn't eat anywhere or anything like that?
>> Okay.
>> Anything to drink today alcohol wise?
>> No. I wish.
>> Are you on any prescription medication or anything like that?
>> No. Okay.
>> Um you know what? While we were drawing, why don't we have her draw?
Will you draw like the driveway and the street and kind of how they pulled up and where he jumped in it and stuff like that?
>> You know what we do? We just initial that.
>> Awesome.
>> Thank you.
>> Step out real quick.
She's doing that straight.
It comes into my straight.
And here's my driveway. Here's my house here.
Here's my neighbor. See just about right there.
So draw it. So which one's yours?
>> This one.
>> Okay.
>> Just so you see how close that street is.
>> They came.
>> I had pulled in. I was parked. I was The car was running. Left it running. Ran inside. Did the dog thing. Came back out. Was in the car. um sitting in the car. As soon as I had got in there, I saw somebody tear out and come like this.
And it caught my eye when they tore out of there because it's very quiet street.
And as they got here, the guy jumped out. My car is about right here. Let's say he jumped out. I looked up. I I seen the car pull here because it was very I saw it kind of and then I saw it pull here.
And um when he jumped out, I looked up.
I saw him jump out and he came up and before I knew it, he was inside my car.
>> So, and I'm just I know this is a rough drawing. Were you actually on the side?
Were you parked on the side of the driveway like hanging off the driveway like that or is that just >> hanging off the driveway? That's just a really >> No, that's fine. I was just making sure.
>> No, but I'm on the site cuz usually I pull in. That's my site.
>> Okay.
>> So, um garage door was still open. I was still getting my stuff together. Was put my purse down, you know, when all this is going on. Um and um that's when he got into the car.
And then from there, like I said, he hopped in and he had crap in his arms. I don't know what happened to it. I was like, "What the who are you? Get out of my car." And that's when he said, "You need to go to the bank and we're going to the bank to get money Russ's money and blah blah blah." And I'm like, "Who are you?" I just was yell and he was yelling stuff and then he start getting really agitated and that's when he had the knife to my put the knife up then and he said, "How did he hold the knife to you?" Like what did >> Right here? Right like that. Yeah.
>> Did he?
>> He didn't touch me. I was say >> No, he didn't touch me, but he had it right there. I could see it. And then that's when I was thinking, I need to get the hell out of the car.
>> What kind of knife is it? I'm I'm assuming we're gonna find the knife there somewhere.
>> I knocked it out of his hand. It should be in the car.
>> Okay. So, it's in the car somewhere.
>> Yeah.
>> Do you know was it Is it a steak knife?
Is it a >> It wasn't a steak knife, but it wasn't a huge butcher knife.
>> Okay.
>> So, it was like in between.
>> Okay.
>> But it would be like one I don't know what it looked like, but I the sizewise like something you would cook with. You might cook, you might cut meat with it, but not a steak knife.
Okay.
>> So, it had a thick blade.
>> So, it was pretty good. That's probably my imagination. It seemed like it was this big.
>> Sure.
>> In my imagination, but it was real thick blade.
>> So, um, >> and so whatever else he had in his hands also.
>> Well, he he immediately dropped that.
>> Dropped what?
>> Whatever he had.
>> Okay. You know, I just know he got in.
As I looked over and I'm was yelling, "What are you doing in my car?" and stuff. I know he dropped stuff because then he, you know, I didn't initially see him with the knife. He had to have it, but then he whipped that up and that's what he was threatening me with.
Um, so does Stevie, the name Stevie that you he you talked about, does that ring a bell to you or >> Yeah, that's the goof name he kept saying. Him and Stevie.
>> Well, I know he said that. What I'm asking is does that relate to a person that you know?
>> No, I don't know a Stevie that I can think of. Okay.
I don't know any Stephen.
>> No Stephen. No Stevie.
>> What's this? What do you What he he's mentioning. You say he's mentioning he's going to he was going to kill your wife or is that what he said?
>> Something about him and Stevie are going to kill my wife or killed my wife. At first I thought he said me and Stevie killed your wife.
And I know in that I remember in that instant thinking this guy I don't know what's wrong with him because he was could hardly understand him. So maybe I just didn't understand what he was saying.
>> Okay.
>> That's what I heard.
>> Something about him and this guy killing somebody's wife.
>> Okay, >> is what he said. The context I heard in my head with his mumbling was kill my wife is how I heard it. So I it didn't make any sense to me at all. And then he kept yelling, "Just get in the car. Get in the car."
>> So when you knock the knife out of his hand, where do you think Where do you think that fell?
>> I don't know. I don't know.
>> I don't know if it was on your side of the car or his side of the car.
>> Don't know.
>> Don't know.
>> Um >> don't know.
Okay. So, we've drawn a picture of the street in your house. We've drawn a picture of the bedroom.
So, nothing. No, never saw this guy before. Never.
>> I don't think so. I don't think so.
>> And the the vehicle, the silver four-door. You'd never saw that before?
>> You know what? That was so nondescript.
Um, everybody had a silver car.
>> Okay.
>> It was just very nondescript, but it was older. That's the only description. You know what I mean? It wasn't new by any means, but um I don't know if I've seen him before or not. I don't think I have, but like I said, when he got out, my first instinct was it was somebody I knew. It's something familiar about him, but I think that's why my whole brain was so jumbled, like something happened, like maybe something got hurt. I don't know what I thought. something happens emergency because they were moving so fast on me, you know.
>> Okay. So, at what point did you call your husband cuz you said he was going to come up here?
>> Oh, just before we came here.
>> Oh, okay.
>> Yeah. Well, he actually called me. Okay.
>> So, somebody called him. I don't He said somebody called him. I kept saying who and I couldn't hear what he was saying.
I was too >> dis.
>> So, somebody called He said somebody called him.
>> I think he said somebody called him.
So, you stayed on with the 911 dispatcher until police arrived.
>> Mhm. Okay.
>> And did you did you stay Did you stay in the garage until they got there or did you Okay. You didn't exit the garage or get >> Well, I came out into the driveway looking. I came I was going back and forth. I was pacing. So, I would come out of the garage. I'd look and I tell her, "They're not here yet. They're not here yet." and I go back in and u she asked me I think at one point is he still in the house? I said, "Yes, he's still in the house." And all that kind of stuff. And then cuz I told her I had shot him. And then she said, "I don't know if she said it, but I I don't even know. I I want to say she said, "Is he breathing?" Or she probably did. I think I'm making that up.
I don't know.
>> Okay. Did you ever go back to the car or did you just leave the car? Was I I don't know. Was the car running? Yeah, the car was still running >> unless they turned it off. Actually, I think actually when the police came, they turned it off.
>> Okay.
>> He went on the Yeah, he went on my side and he turned it off.
>> Okay.
>> Well, we've uh she's drawn the map of the the street, kind of where the car came from, where it went, um how the guy ran up on the passenger side of her vehicle.
Um, she she said she didn't go back. She never went back to the to the vehicle after she called 911 and after the police got there. Like after the shooting occurred, she didn't she exited the house and she said she stayed in the garage. She went to the um >> driveway going out the driveway cuz she kept saying they were coming. So I kept looking, but I kept pulling my dog back and um >> I think she had said something about go to a neighbor or can you go to a neighbor? I think she said that or maybe a policeman said that. I'm not sure. But I know the lady next door just called on my dog the other day. So I couldn't go there and nobody else was home.
Got a citation for that. So >> for a barking dog or or dog off a leash?
>> Off a leash. My puppy. I have my front yard going pee.
>> Oh, >> I mean she's old. She's 80s something years old. She hates dogs. I get it. It was my fault. And the guy was very nice.
A park ranger. He was felt embarrassed cuz he's a puppy, but whatever. So, I couldn't really go there cuz she doesn't really like me and the other ones aren't home. So, I had nowhere to go. So, I didn't want to get too close to the door. But, I think she asked me if he's God, I want to say because I know I kept looking in the door. I went back a couple times to look cuz I kept telling her if he's there. I think I might have said he's laying on the floor cuz I could see him still laying there cuz he's right in front of my bedroom door and the garage door cuz they go right into each other and he was laying right there. So I kept seeing he was still laying there. So I kept going out there and Casey got up and had it run but just waiting for the police and she just had me on the phone until you guys got there and then she said hang up.
>> I got just a couple things with the dog when this happened. You may have said this and I may not remember the dog. Where was the dog at when he came into the house? Do you remember?
>> Well, he runs loose. So, um I know if when at first he came because I ran on the back door and he always comes to the back door.
>> You talked through the garage.
>> Yeah. To the garage. And I call that the back door. Okay. You're right. The garage door. And he came to run in and then with all the banging and stuff, he ran out. So, I don't know where he went.
Okay.
>> Uh wasn't paying attention to him. He doesn't bark. He's just a puppy. So, I think he got scared. Not sure where he went.
>> Okay.
Do you ever come to the bedroom?
>> Um, no.
Unless like when I was behind closed doors, maybe came where that guy was standing. Maybe came up to him. I'm not sure. I don't know.
>> Okay. So, you don't remember him being in the bedroom?
>> What's his dog's name?
>> Hooper.
>> Hooper. So, Hooper. You don't remember him being in the bedroom at all? Mhm.
>> Okay.
>> And when this I'm going jump around a little bit. And when this guy came through the back door, the garage door, and you're holding it up or pounded or anything like that, did you get any injuries? Is there any anything we need to photograph bruise-wise or I'm sorry. Any you know, cuz he if he's a big guy, I don't know how big he is.
>> Nothing like you.
>> Okay. He was more like him, I think.
>> Okay.
>> Just normal. He was just normal. Taller than me, but just normal. It's not like I would look I'd look at you and go, "Shit, I'm in trouble." Wasn't like that. It would be more I didn't even think anything.
>> Okay.
>> You know, as far as that, >> I just want to make sure though there's no bru there's possible bruises on your back or your arms or >> I don't think so. I'm still in physical therapy from my accident, so I got so many aches and stuff. Yeah.
>> Did the medics look at any of your >> No, they just No, they didn't look at anything.
>> Okay. And when he came through the bedroom door >> Mhm.
>> cuz you let go and you ran straight into the bedroom door.
>> Yeah.
>> I was not trying to >> And it wasn't locked or anything, the bedroom door. So, was he pounding on that door, too?
>> Yes.
>> Was he trying to get in the door now or just pound on? Kind of clarify that for me.
>> I heard pounding. I don't know what he was doing. I was busy getting my gun and turning back around and um and it was just like that fast the door was open. So whether he was just I don't know what he was doing. I do know he was pounding on the door. Um because I stood there and waited to see if it if he was going to come.
>> So you came through the door and you had time to go to your dresser. Yeah.
>> And then come back to the front of your bed >> and then he opened the door. Mhm.
>> What I know this might be a lot to ask, but if you had to if you had to guess, what type of time frame you looking at there?
>> Um, well, from here to the door, there's a little walk. So, it's a length of a bed. So, I ran in, opened it, grabbed it, and turned right back around and start walking towards the door. And at some point it was open and we were face to face.
>> Okay. And this is another part I just want to clarify cuz when you described it originally you said you did it like a tactical where you have both hands up like a what we call an isosles position.
Are you familiar with isosles position?
>> I know that I shoot both I try to shoot both ways when when we're doing target practice you and your husband. Yeah. I shoot and then as I start getting tired I, you know, I have to use a second hand and stuff. But I I shoot both ways. But >> when you say both ways, what do you mean?
>> Well, with two hands or one hand.
>> Okay.
>> Normally when I talk about shooting, I do this because that's just >> So this is what you that's just what I do.
>> So if you were to shoot them, you were still on the phone when the shots. Do you remember where your phone was at that time?
>> In my hand.
>> I I understand I understand that. I'm sorry. Where in relation to your body?
Was it up to your ear? Was it down your waist? Was it >> I have no idea. I have no idea. Trying to think if I could hear her.
Uh I think at one point I had put it up yelling to her. Maybe at one point between getting it and him pounding maybe after that. I don't know.
>> Okay. Here's another question for you because it's it's unusual. Here's what I say.
Without some type of tactical training or military training, law enforcement training is to fire and then approach the >> target. Where did you learn that?
Or is that >> I mean what one reason I ask is I mean when you and your husband go out does he besides the shooting do you guys work on >> tactical movements or something like that?
>> You >> we just shoot a target on a tree.
>> Okay.
>> The because my thought was get the hell out of that room is what I wanted to do.
I didn't want to be pinned in that small space cuz my room's really small because there just was no way to get out. if he got in, I wasn't getting out. So to walk forward at him partially was I wanted to get out of that room and partially was I wanted to be sure I hit him >> and he was not advancing at that point.
>> You were I was advancing.
>> Yes, but he was >> No. Well, he had just he had just knocked the door open and I started shooting and I'm walking as I'm shooting.
>> All right. So because when I as soon as that happened and I shot he just nothing. So I didn't even think I hit him because he just stood there then and I just kept shooting and then I went my dog was running all over the place. And >> so you said you haven't had anything to drink. You said you don't take prescription medications or anything like that, right? No.
>> So when was the last time you would you say you had something to drink?
>> That's today, Tuesday. Um, Saturday night.
>> Saturday night.
>> And then >> I'm not an every night drinker. No.
>> And then or Friday night?
>> Prescription medication or anything like that? Or you don't do anything? Do you do any illegal narcotics or anything like that? Okay. Uh, prescription medication. When's the last time you think you took something prescription?
>> Um, well, I just hit a shot block in my right shoulder. Um, >> I don't know, probably ibuprofen. Um, oh, I'm sorry. I took a muscle relaxer last night because I got torn something in here. So, they just did a block in it a week ago.
>> What kind of What's the muscle relaxer?
>> I don't know. Starts at the B. My pain manager gave it to me. They took it last night before I went to bed so I could >> You take that just periodically or do you take it?
>> Well, since I've had this accident, my accident, I'm taking that every night until Yeah, because as you can these are like rocks. I noticed you're wearing glasses. Were you wearing glasses during this during this whole thing?
>> So, >> they're cheaters. They're from They're Dollar Store.
>> Okay. So, you use them for reading basically and stuff like that. So, daily driving, driving around town.
>> Yeah, they're for reading.
>> Okay. So, where did those come from?
>> I had them on my shirt.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. I always keep them here.
>> Okay. And then you >> I'm good. Unless you go, oh, you know, sign here or something like that. Then I have to have them. So, I always keep glasses here.
>> Okay.
were um would on the in your house in the hallway. Is it is it well lit? Is it were the lights on?
>> No lights were on, but I have uh most of the windows open and stuff. So, >> it was >> Yeah, it's not dark.
>> Bedroom's plenty light.
>> It's not dark and No, the bedroom's dark.
>> The bedroom's dark >> because of Why is it dark?
Um because drapes are closed.
>> So >> it's always dark is dark.
>> Yeah, they have and and they have blinds underneath them. It's just always we keep it dark because my husband likes it nice and cool and at night cuz it's just how it is all the time.
>> Okay.
>> I mean it's not like dark like night dark. It's dark for the day. I mean it's if you shut your drapes in your bedroom that's what it's like.
>> Sure. I'm with you.
Okay. I'm trying to think of all the any more details here. Okay.
>> Go ahead.
>> Obviously, there's some history with with past things and that's why they said they wanted Russ's money. Correct. They said something about Russ going to the bank.
>> Kind of got to dig in a little bit. He said at one point the money that I stole from Russ at one point in the car, you know, because he kept saying, "We're going to the bank. You're getting Russ's money." And I'm like, >> "Get out of my car. Who are you? What are you talking about?" At first, I didn't even know what the hell he was talking about. And at one point, he had said, "The money you stole from Russ."
>> When I stepped out, did you guys discuss that? Okay.
>> Uh, no. I mean, >> I think I told one of the other officers.
>> Okay.
He had said that at some point and that and still it didn't click with me. I was just worried about getting out of there and what the hell the guy was so thick tonged that even when he said stuff it took with everything going on and how he was talking a second for like what the hell is this guy talking about? It just was so mumble jumble didn't make sense.
Some of them weren't complete sentences.
Um it was it was frightening.
>> Can not to get too personal here, but can you kind of fill me in fill us in >> in on the financial aspect of the FIA stuff and where all that stands now.
>> Um she had signed over me as beneficiary and I was paid out.
>> How much?
>> 150,000. Okay. And I still have that 150,000.
>> Okay.
>> And that's known to people that I still have the 150,000 because >> broadcasted that because at one point when I was talking to prosecutors up in Lincoln County, she kept going, "Do you have that money? Can I see your account?" You know, whatever. And I just brought it up to her in cash and gave it to her. And so when I was at trial >> for it, >> you I'm sorry to interrupt you. That was the judge asking for that or the prosecutor.
>> Prosecutor, she was asking to see if I still had She goes, "Do you still have the money?" I said, "Yeah." And she goes, "Well, can you show me that you still have it?" Whatever.
>> So you brought up her and I did. And I brought up a bag and I gave it to her and I had cash in it.
>> And then when I was at the trial with the girls for the money.
>> So you took the money up in a bag for sure.
>> I did. You couldn't just bring a banker receipt.
>> I didn't have a banker receipt. I had >> Okay. No cash at that time. All right.
At that time.
>> So now cash in a bag.
>> But now it's not.
>> Yeah.
>> But um it was but um >> I have to remember again I do have brain injury. So a lot of stuff that makes sense to me does not make I know everybody goes you're in that nut case.
I'm not.
>> I didn't say that at all.
>> That makes sense to me at that time.
>> Fair enough. Different.
>> So then I went to trial. The girls tried to sue me for the money though they have never been beneficiary. Russ was the beneficiary.
>> Okay.
>> And um they lost.
>> Okay.
>> But at the trial Russ was there.
>> Okay.
>> So he knew.
>> Was this a When was this in relation to his >> This just happened in January. He just got out.
>> So he he had just been released when you went back to trial for the daughters.
>> Mhm.
>> Okay. So he knew the cash story and he knew because he was sitting behind us at the trial that I still had the money.
>> Okay.
>> And right after um after that um the place I don't think he knows this, but the place where I had my hair done um him and his cousin went there and confronted a hairdresser. There >> was this on film.
>> Yeah. And the police were called and everybody. Yeah. And >> because somebody wrote something on Facebook. That's how violent he is. And they came and were screaming at this poor girl cuz they didn't like what she wrote. And I know there was a gun involved with the owner. They everybody was getting that worked up and stuff.
The police were called. I don't know what happened to it. I do know that um talking to the prosecutor and stuff >> at St. Charles or Lincoln.
>> Lincoln. Okay.
>> Um channel 2 Fox News, Chris Hayes was notified and decided to suppress that story cuz he didn't want it out about which I blame him for.
This guy has behavior. He's already had the one gal do this to me. He's already confronted another one violently and now this. So I blame him for suppressing that. He suppressed it because he's working with the defense lawyer when they were getting them out and now he's taking them on the book round and stuff.
Chris Hayes.
So I blame him for suppressing that cuz people should have known that.
>> Should have known what specifically known. He was that crazy that if you say anything or do anything, he's going to be right there up in your face cuz he's out now.
>> We're talking about Russ.
>> Mhm.
>> When's the last time have you ever had any conversations with him through any medium, social media, phone, in person with Russ >> at the um girls trial in January? um he was there and he just kept lurking around and all that and um we kind of ran into each other going to the bathroom and stuff on a break and I said to him, "Oh, congratulations on your release." I don't know what to say to him. I was just being nice and uh he said, "Oh, thanks." And that was it. And turned around, walked away. He had like his cousin with them. I think just his cousin, the same cousin that confronted this hairdresser.
So, um, that's the last time I've seen him or and that's we didn't really speak. We just said that nicities in January.
>> Mhm. I >> think it was in January.
>> Okay. No other contact since.
>> No.
>> All right. So, that was in January that the daughters lost their case to get the money.
>> Mhm.
>> Is there any other legal procedures going on with it? Currently, >> it's uh Well, they're appealing.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> So, they're appealing. Okay.
>> They're appealing.
>> Where's that at? Do you know in the court process?
>> Oh, I think it's going to be a lot of stuff.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah. It's a paper thing.
>> All right.
Okay.
Cuz when you're stating this person who got in the car said something about Russ, that's why we got to kind of >> Well, yeah, because that's what th at first it didn't even click with me. I know. But again, hard to understand.
my mind was going somewhere else to get out of there. So, it literally like was a split screen for me. Him just at first I understood what he was saying and then I was just concentrating on my own little world and he was just saying crap.
>> You know, >> when you knock the gun out of or the knife that do you know did it fall out of his hand or did it stay in his hand?
>> I hit it. as hard as I could or I hit him and I think it fell.
>> Okay.
>> In my mind, it fell.
>> Okay.
>> Didn't stop to look. I at the same time opened the door and just ran out.
>> All right.
>> We have no idea what else was in his hand >> when he came after me.
>> Well, yeah. You said when he hopped in the car, he said, >> "But he was jumbling something."
>> But it should be in the car, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Should be in the car. knife should be in the car if it got knocked out because unless he had it in my house and it's in my house, it's from the car to my house. The knife's got to be there and whatever the hell he had was there.
>> All right. Written statement.
>> Yeah.
>> Why don't we I I know I know we just talked at length about about what happened um today. It just did one of those.
>> Where?
>> In the ambulance.
>> Okay. Um, was it as detailed as what we've just discussed here? I >> think so. Yeah.
>> You think so? Okay. You know what I'll do? I'm going to go track it down. Okay.
>> I'll I want to read through it and >> maybe might have you come back and clarify some things for me if the if the statement wasn't too terribly clear.
Okay. Um, you said you haven't eaten any lunch or anything.
>> Is it Are you hungry or you're okay?
>> Okay. Is your water okay for now? My >> soda.
You good?
>> Okay. Give us a few minutes and we'll be back. Okay.
If >> you need something, just let us know.
We're right out of here.
>> Thanks.
>> Don't take them smoking now, though, if you haven't started.
>> All right. Tight. All right.
>> How are you doing? I'm going to I'm going to go to the restroom real fast and then I'll be right back. Um, you good? Anything I can get you? I step out for a second.
>> I'm supposed to get my husband.
>> Yeah, I think uh Detective Wolf is going to go down. Sergeant Wolf is going to go down and talk.
>> Can I call my lawyer?
>> Yeah.
>> Do I need my lawyer up here?
>> Do you?
>> Well, how long am I going to be up here?
>> You're up here voluntarily.
>> No, I know. But >> we're not holding you.
>> No, I know. But how long? They're going to kill me if I don't have one just because of everything that's been going on. Should I call them or should or are we going to be here much longer?
>> Okay. You are here. You are here of your own free will. Okay. You have to make those decisions for yourself. I can't No, let me let me tell you what what we still have left to do. Okay. Um, you know, in this incident, um, we need to make sure that we can separate your DNA from his DNA. So, what we'll do is once we get a search warrant and all that stuff at the house, we'll swap him for DNA and then, um, they'll do swabs of the house and and that kind of thing to make sure that he wasn't inside your house somewhere else or doing something that they should have been doing. In the flip side, we also get your DNA because we want to make sure that we don't confuse like that we know whose DNA is in the house. Okay. Uh so we were going to do that. Two, um we were going to what else? Oh, we need we're going to take photographs. Uh we were going to have uh county ID come up and take photographs of you just showing your injuries or lack thereof or you know what, you know, just to show in case tomorrow some bruising appears, you know, we can document the stages of whatever happens going forward. Okay.
And then three. Um, and so yeah, so I'm going to get some forms for the consent for the DNA for a swab. And the swab is it's like a Q-tip, rub it inside the cheek. I put it in a box, sealed away. I do one on each side of the cheek. And then it it gets to the lab. And his DNA will be sent to the lab. Your DNA will be sent to the lab. And then any swabs we take from his vehicle showing that his DNA was on the knife.
Those types of things. Um, and so we just want to make sure that we have all that done. Okay. Um, and then what else am I missing? Oh, the phone. Uh, your phone. If he has a phone on him, uh, we'll do a search war on his phone and see who he's been talking to. Uh, who's been contacted him. Uh, with your consent, we would like to to glance to your phone. Um, you know, just make sure that you weren't getting any calls or, you know, there isn't anything going on on your end of the phone. Um, you that helps us clear you, um, you know, of know you're making sure that you don't know this guy and this guy doesn't know you and those sorts of things. So, those are just steps that we have to take in the investigation. Okay. Um, another thing I wanted to ask you was, um, I guess your husband told the officers of a of a subject who was, um, sitting on the sewer yesterday, maybe thought a subject was sitting on the sewer um, not doing much of anything. At some point he I don't know if the guy knew that your husband was there or in the area, whatever, but he just kind of like stood up.
>> He never looked back and he walked away.
So I I guess my question for you is do you recall recently coming the recent hours, days, uh weeks um of anything that's occurred around your house?
>> There happened uh me and my husband were leaving our house. I guess it's been a month ago and there was and I couldn't even tell you. It was a light color vehicle. I wasn't really paying attention. I did notice the person in it. Like I couldn't describe him, but it was the same person. And I said to my husband, I go, "That car, what is that car keeps I think that car is casing me is what I said." And he blew it off as a joke, but I kept seeing it like couple days in a row. It was parked and then it would just drive off.
>> Okay.
>> And I said that to him. That's been about a month ago.
>> Okay. So, not for the last month.
>> Okay. And then you didn't see this guy sitting on the sewer?
>> No.
>> You didn't see anybody else creeping around the house or anything like that?
>> Okay. Yeah. Again, uh Sergeant Wolf is down there talking to your husband right now. Um you know, like I said, you're here. You're here voluntarily to talk to us to help us get through this. Okay. Um you know, we're not holding you here. Um but you you're the way I look at it is you're helping me. So, um you know, I I I obviously can't tell you what >> I'm just really tired.
>> Fair enough. I get that. So, and we're trying to get through this as fast as possible, but I mean this in an incident like this, it doesn't it doesn't just >> we don't snap our fingers in.
>> When do we get to go to back home?
>> Whenever you want to. But what I'd like Well, okay. Well, that right now is a crime scene. Okay. We've got that thing taped off. So, going to your house and go getting inside your house. That's not going to happen for a little while because we still haven't gotten inside your house yet. Okay. Um by the time we have to we have to type up a search warrant. we have to take it to the prosecutor and then have it signed by a judge and then once we have it signed by a judge then we go to the then we we deliver it and then we execute the search warrant. So we're still in the process of they've already typed it. I think they're in the process of going down to the judge and get it signed. So we're we're moving forward. These things it's not like you know TV shows where you flip on the news and you know the they they have a search warrant by a phone call. It doesn't work like that.
So so yeah actually getting in your house >> worried about that. And I was just wondering if we could get clothes or whatever. But >> um >> cuz the police officers tonight we could get in there, get back in there.
>> I'm not going to make you any promises about when you're going to get back in your house at this point. Um because I just don't know where they're at there.
I'm here. They're there. I have no idea where they're at other than I heard that they're waiting on the search board. So that's it.
>> Um but yeah, as far as like getting into the house anytime real soon, I don't that I don't foresee that as happening.
All right. So bear with me. Yeah, I'm going to get some forms um for your consent for the phone. Um for the DNA and that we'll do the swabs. Um do the phone.
What was the other thing we talked about? I forget. All right. I asked you about the person on the >> on the sewer.
>> Yeah, I didn't. Okay.
>> He didn't tell me about that.
>> Okay. So, just sit tight. Okay. I'll be right back. You're still going to step out and use the rest. Okay.
>> That's That's what he was hearing. He said, "Hey, listen.
He's like, "You want to know if there's any reason I should you should contact your attorney?" I said, "You know what?
That's not up to me." But >> that's what I didn't know cuz they freak out when you don't.
>> Yeah. So that's So he he's like, "Let me run there." And then he get back.
>> Do you need my whole phone or do you just need the permission to >> Well, yeah. the when they when they do the phone, it's a it's they search the whole thing just make sure that we're not >> You physically need my phone.
>> Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> All right.
>> How long does that take? Cuz I don't have a home phone or anything.
>> No. Well, we're going to work on that as fast as possible. The quicker we can I don't want to rush you. It's not like that. And we don't we want to get we want to get everything that we can as quickly as possible. So, don't worry there.
Yeah. Speedier the better, right?
>> He said it's a new phone or you told him that it was a new phone.
>> She actually give me the She said it was a new phone number. How How long have you had that?
>> I know. What year is your vehicle?
>> 16.
>> 2016. I don't even know what it was. I remember seeing it sitting there, but I don't remember what it was.
>> It's a GMC Acadia.
>> GMC.
Do you have a little license plate?
>> Do what color it is?
>> Slate gray.
>> Slate gray.
>> Um, you don't know the license plate number, but it's slate gray. Slate gray 2016 GMC Acadia. Um, >> is it registered to you?
>> Okay.
>> Business name.
>> What's under the business name?
>> H number two.
partners >> H2 Partners >> LLC.
>> Just making sure that we're getting consensus search the right. You know what I'm saying?
>> There's golf clubs in the back and there's a big soda in the front still.
>> It's in the driveway, right?
>> It's in the driveway and it was running.
So, your policeman should have my keys.
I guess they do already >> in the driveway of 1260.
Little brave.
All right. So, I just need your signature, address, city, and state, and then date of birth.
>> We've got water in a fridge. You want me to get you the water?
>> Yeah. Well, he Did he say how long he'd be? You think?
>> No.
>> He's right off Main Street. Actually, he's right off Main Street. So, Perfect.
Well, I assume he'll be back very shortly. Um, >> can I go downstairs and wait for him or?
>> Yeah.
>> I stay here.
>> No, you came up here voluntarily.
>> No, I know. I know that.
>> So, you don't have to stay I know, but I want what every day's need I want you to get before I leave. So, >> well, we don't I mean, yeah, our goal would be to get as much information as we can while you're here than to have to come back to you like in an hour or three or tomorrow. Um, so I mean that's why we just it's it's more peaceful up here, you know, um for us to talk. So, this is your written statement that you gave officer was it Wilcox?
Um, >> so this has started running errands about 9:00 a.m.
Went to Kico gas station and got gas, a soda. Went to the mall by Hobby Lobby and drove by my daughters to see if she was home. Came home and let the dog out to pee. As I was backing out, a car came out of the side street and stopped in front of the driveway. A man got out of the car and ran up to my car.
>> That's not I wasn't backing out though.
Now that I'm thinking about it, I was It was already backed out and I just got in it.
>> Okay.
Backed out. Okay. So, it was >> cuz I didn't pull into the garage. I just pulled where I was.
>> Okay. We clarified that earlier.
>> And ran up to my car. He jumped in and told me to take him to the bank to get Russ's money. He had things in his hands and a knife.
He put the knife to my neck and told me to drive to the bank to get Russ's money.
The man kept looking behind himself out the window. At one point, I threw the car in park, thinking I was going to try to get out of the car. He started yelling things at me and turned around to look out his window again. I hid his arm and ran out of the car. He ran after me, yelling at me. I tried to hold the garage door shut while I called 911. He pushed the door open. As I ran to the bedroom, I tried to lock the door. The man started banging on the door. I got my gun and as the door flew open, I shot everything in my gun.
So, did that sound >> pretty much? Yeah.
>> Well, pretty I read that I tried to read that word for word. I mean, >> no, that is I mean that's exactly what happened. It wasn't as detailed probably as you stuff out of me, but >> well, we also went back to yesterday.
So, >> because like, you know, your husband saw that somebody sitting on the sewer, so didn't know what that was about.
>> You didn't tell me that. Probably didn't want to freak me out.
>> He told me.
>> That's what he said. Did he say he told me? Cuz >> No, he didn't say he told you. I don't I didn't ask him. He told you.
>> He didn't tell me or I don't remember that he told me. I don't think he told me cuz I would have freaked out. Um, okay. So, right now, I think the one thing that we would be waiting on is to have somebody come up here and take photographs of you. Um, if you want to walk around or do whatever, you're free to do so. Um, we I mean, we would like you to hang around just so we could get that, you know, get that done. And if there's anything that comes up, but once we get in the house, we might have additional questions. I don't know. Um, so I mean, we'd like you to hang around. Um, how you going to call me if I don't have my phone?
Well, where are you going to go?
>> I don't know yet.
>> Will you probably be with your husband?
>> Yeah.
>> How about call your husband?
>> Get that. Look.
>> Do we have um >> Do we have his phone number?
>> You're the smart alley going on here.
>> I'm playing. I'm playing. You always look like you're um Yes. I'll probably do this with him.
>> What's our phone number? 636448 5241.
>> Perfect. Um, yeah, let me actually let me step out and call and see what the what the time frame would be to get somebody up here to just take some pictures of you real fast. Okay. Um, in the meantime, you know, >> or your phone and >> No, we I I don't use my phone to take any pictures. They have better cameras than these phones have cameras. I don't take pictures.
Definitely not on something like this with my phone. Um, but I will call we'll call people out there and see if they can send somebody our way.
>> Need another water.
>> It's cold.
>> It's close. I mean, don't go. Okay.
Yeah. Thank you.
>> Yep.
>> And I'm just messing with you cuz you always look like you're kidding around.
>> I only look like I was kid around that one time there, right?
>> Just the ones. All right.
Okay. So, um we have an officer. Her name is Ble Club. She'll uh she'll do the photographs.
>> You have to like stripped down.
>> Um well, she's going to I don't know about stripping down, but she's going to make sure there's no injuries on your back and shoulders and stuff like that where you were leaning up and stuff like that. So she she might have you do that.
We won't do that in here. Um she another female officer will take the pictures and stuff like that. So and then tomorrow if you wake up with bruising that you didn't have today cuz sometimes that doesn't happen instant. Um if you do we need to know um we need to take some additional photographs. Okay.
>> Yeah.
So, we got everything else knocked out.
The phone, the house, the car, the buckle swab. We're knocking out the photos. I assume >> this person.
>> If they do, >> you don't >> I don't know. I'm here. Yeah, I'm here.
I don't know. I don't I don't believe they do at this point. Um I I think they're just now they might just now be starting to process the house. So, no. I mean, obviously I'd like to get a name and we can I mean that >> knowing who that who that person is is is uh is pretty important.
>> Yeah.
>> So, >> yeah.
>> So, >> I would like to know just cuz it's weird not knowing.
>> I agree.
I agree. All right. So, you have water.
You know this.
>> Yeah. Throw that away. No problem.
>> Okay. You still good?
As soon as your husband your husband gets back, we >> He's still not here yet.
>> Well, he was here and then he left. So, when he gets back, we'll we'll we'll make sure we work that out. Okay.
>> Absolutely.
>> You can be a little nervous.
>> We're almost We're coming towards the end of this. So, I don't get lonely in here. You sure you don't want to sprite?
>> Thank you.
>> My husband's not back yet.
>> He's not what?
>> He's not back yet.
>> I haven't been downstairs, so if he is, I don't know. He's supposed to call or have records call us when he's back.
>> Okay.
>> So, you guys been married 35 years?
>> 30 something.
>> It's a long time in this day and age.
>> Got married in.
It's like 35.
33 35.
>> You guys both around from Missouri originally.
>> Mhm.
>> You grew up in this area.
>> The hood.
>> How long you lived out this way?
>> Well, we lived in Florida for 11 years and we moved back here. Naples.
>> Why would you move from Naples back here?
>> I didn't like Florida.
>> Why not?
>> Well, Naples, which is super gorgeous.
>> Yeah, everybody talks about it.
>> It's all rich people.
>> There you go.
>> So, well, it's a service town. There's no real industry.
>> I got you.
>> The biggest employer was the school district.
>> Yeah.
>> So, that tells you >> um we had our own business down there.
We did plantation shutters, but >> um Oh, we were down there 11 years. We did that and sold it and moved back after my dad died because my mom >> couldn't handle.
>> So, you you guys own your own business, H2 something?
>> No, we do. Yeah.
>> What do you do?
>> We flip houses.
>> Oh, >> that's just an aside. Cuz construction is what my husband does.
>> Okay. Okay. So, you buy houses that are in poor condition, foreclosure, fix them up, and then sell them.
>> So, I don't like I mean, you just do that. Do you ever buy houses and then like just rent them out and be landlords? No.
>> No, we've done that. We did that down in Florida. Yeah.
>> I did.
>> No.
>> What's the problem with that?
>> People don't like to pay rent.
>> Well, yeah, of course. But you got to make them.
>> It's hard. It was hard in Florida because they got the Sunshine Act that >> you have to go through this big lengthy process >> to get somebody removed >> to evict them. Yeah.
>> Could be months, but the Sunshine Act says if you have kids, it's even longer, >> okay, >> to get them out. And we tried.
>> So, you really got >> We had a condo down there that we rented out and >> So, you really got to vet your tenants.
>> There's no way to do that. One of we one of them we had was an ax placement.
Yeah.
>> Not on the force anymore. No brainer, right?
>> Well, he's an ex. Why is he What depends? Why is he an ax?
>> I know. Don't know. But uh start skating and then we found out that that's what they do and then they move in the middle of the night type thing, which they did.
>> You know, squatters >> by time. I mean it can take you a few months especially when he was good very nice clean kids and wow not this one you know and so that can go on for a few months and then when you finally figure out oh my gosh I got to do something >> it's another three months through the eviction period >> and that cost you money just to deal with that time and money >> in the meantime no mortgage payment >> right I understand that >> so we did it and we're like I just don't like dealing with people like that >> so now that the housing market's kind of coming back is affect your business at all?
>> Yeah. Um not so much the housing market coming back, but um because there's no inventory out there. Problem is people are buying foreclosures. The million >> now we'll see a influx of them losing them again because >> the real bad ones. If you can't do it yourself, people think, "Oh, I can do this." But really don't get what's in there. A lot of them sit for a year, two years empty, which means broken pipes.
You don't know it until you're >> all the interior stuff. You don't know.
>> We've bought or looked at houses that have been halfway gutted. People try >> and it's just too overwhelming. It's a lot of money.
>> So, you know, >> so you're your husband works for another employer and he does that on the side.
>> Yeah, we do it outside. We've done it since >> um gosh, we've done it for about eight years.
So, have you always worked >> We quit in 2008 when the market fell. We just quit because it just wasn't worth it.
>> And then we started back up a couple years ago.
>> Have you always worked in that type of You've always worked in that industry.
>> I work in insurance.
>> Yeah. Well, we just like to We've always renovated our own houses, >> right?
>> So, >> yeah. If you can do it, then there's deals out there. It's not bad.
>> The deals aren't out there anymore.
That's >> Well, no. You understand? I'm saying if they are.
>> No, I mean like with the no inventory means banks are cranking up the prices of the foreclosures, >> right?
>> So >> doesn't make it worthwhile.
>> Yeah.
>> There's no pre there's no profit to be made.
>> There's no profit.
>> Yeah.
>> Not fixed up like we fix them. Like we'll do a whole new house for people inside, you know, kitchens, bathrooms, stove, refrigerator, everything. And there's just no margin anymore.
>> It's real hard to find one.
>> No. Your hus husband works in construction. Is that he also doing carpenter type stuff there too then?
>> Uh yeah they do everything but when we had our own business he handmade plantation shutters which are the interior shutters >> and um that was his business down there.
>> So is he got a workshop at home he does everything in?
>> It sounds like a >> he industrious fellow.
>> Well he did but we don't have one at this house. We've only been at this house a year.
>> Okay. So, yeah. No, he pretty much everything's in his truck.
>> Okay.
>> You know, >> so he lost the doors on his truck.
>> Park in the garage.
>> Yeah.
>> So, >> well, Florida.
>> I wouldn't want to live hot, >> but it's a dry heat.
>> It's not. I was teasing. They always say that. They always say that one's hot.
>> No, I My brother-in-law lives in Arizona. His is a dry heat. And he said, "Hot's still hot." Cuz it's always 100 something there. He's in Phoenix.
>> I know. I >> Or Tucson.
>> Heat is always heat.
>> Yeah. It's just hot. You go outside and sweat. I don't care if your pores are open or closed. Doesn't matter. In Florida, literally, it would be so humid. It's like August for 6 months.
>> Yeah.
>> You walk out and your pores go.
>> Yeah. You don't want to be outside.
>> And I just got tired of that, you know.
At least here you get the heat and then you get the fall and >> I like the change. When I get sick of something, we're going into something else.
>> Yeah, there's always a little >> there. It was like hot. Like my sister-in-law lives in Minnesota.
Same thing. 6 months cold. I mean, I don't want that either. That's ridiculous. Snow and stuff.
>> Like a little bit of it.
>> Yeah. That's why it's nice here cuz you get a little bit of everything. Like you said, you get tired of it once and all of a sudden here comes a change. And it was fun at first and then the other thing you got is in the winter when it's really nice and you're looking forward to the great weather.
>> Town was three times four times its size because a tourist.
>> Oh yeah. I've never been there but I know a couple people that go >> they treat your place like crap, >> right?
>> Can't get in restaurants. You can't get in anything because there's so many people there. Traffic's horrid cuz they're not going to work. Everybody's lolly gagging around. And it got to be Naples has gotten so big now that it's just we were like >> it's congested. It's just not >> It's so horrid.
>> Yeah.
>> So horrid when you're It's like a college town. When it gets taken over it's like >> You ever live in a college town?
>> Never wanted to.
>> Did you go to college?
>> Where'd you go?
>> Down in Florida. I started up here.
>> Do you worship Florida?
>> No. Down in Naples.
>> What's the Is it local or what is it?
>> It's a private college down there. You had to go up to Fort Myers for part of it and then um Naples for the rest of it.
>> So yeah.
>> Where'd you get your degree again?
>> Um MIS, management information systems.
>> Sounds exciting.
>> It was. I haven't done it in a long time. I haven't been doing insurance for a long time.
>> Surprised you guys are entrepreneurs.
Why don't you do your own insurance? You ever had your own insurance company? No.
Like your own office or whatever? No.
sales.
>> Well, what's H2 LLC? You're doing sales there?
>> No, not really. I mean, you put a house up for sale. I mean, >> so you're putting it for sale, >> right? But when you do like insurance and stuff, you got to go out and >> you're talking commission and all that type. So, that's a that's a tough business, >> especially in this day and age with the big ones like State Farm and all those people.
>> Oh, I get that. to being independent means you get people that couldn't qualify for all state or nationwide. So you got issues there and >> kind of back to dealing with the renter type situation.
>> Yeah. You know, we started I started that in Florida. I was going to work for independent and um their their problem is is when people need their tags, they go get insurance.
They get their tags. I have insurance.
You know that, >> right? Yeah. Abs >> done with it. got my card for like the show or whatever >> and all we did was chase people. Call on your payment's due your payment.
And I hate to say it, but you know, I worked for uh the big chains. Let somebody else have that headache. And that's why they weed them out.
>> Yeah, I wouldn't be good in sales.
>> I think you would.
>> No, not a salesman.
>> You had I hope she got that on film. I don't know if she did my I don't think she did my forums. I just noticed that scratch.
She did my uppers and my hands, but I don't think she did that. I just noticed it.
>> Let me see if she's still seeing down.
>> Well, it is a big deal.
>> I had some bruising starting up there, >> but she wants to. She got this. Yeah.
Okay.
>> She got all that.
>> But you're not sure if she got the scratch there.
>> Well, I did this for my hands. I don't think she took it on my arms.
>> I was going to ask cuz there's no no detail too minute. So, let me let me go ask her. I'll be right back. Thanks. Go.
Hey man. Hey. So, we've obviously we've got officers on scene there. They're still going. They're still doing what they do. Um, but I was trying to call and arrange to get you some uh some a change of clothes. So, do you have some particular clothes that you would want if I could direct somebody to something like just pants, shirt, something?
Because, you know, we we're going to have his clothes. We in this case, we get your clothes, too. Um, you just want to grab off the shelf pair of jeans and any top hanging there.
>> Where's the shelf in the master?
>> Yeah. And it's really organized. So >> So any any pair of jeans off the shelf and then a shirt from >> just hanging >> hanging short sleeve, long sleeve.
>> Don't It's all my summer clothes. I know.
>> Okay. So just any any old shirt will do with with jeans. And then um to make sure there's You stepped over them. So, we're probably going to want to double check, swab the bottoms of the shoes and stuff like that, too. So, do you have another pair of shoes that we might be able to take?
>> Any flip flops that are laying on the floor? Good.
>> Flip flops. Okay.
>> Yeah, we can have these.
>> Okay, sounds good. So, actually, we'll get some paper bags and stuff. Um, >> sorry. I should I should have remembered that cuz I walked all over them pretty much.
>> No, you're okay. I was >> Has the black spot been there?
>> Has that been Yeah, >> it looks like a whale.
>> And it might be, but Yeah, you know, whatever it is, >> that's why we run the test. So, okay.
So, any old pair of flip- flops, jeans off the shelf, and any shirt will do.
Okay, perfect.
>> Thank you.
>> I'm going to make a phone call. We'll see if we can't work on that.
>> Okay.
>> They're just starting to pop up a little bit.
>> Yeah. Did you Did you even show up in the other picture?
>> That is That's what I said to him. I was sitting here and maybe I scratched myself. We were pulling up the sleeves or something. I don't know. But I'm going, "Oh, there's a scratch."
>> No, that's okay.
>> But it's not swollen. It's flat. So, >> just in case.
turn so I'm not so much in the light.
This camera is very tight for me.
>> I feel bad for you coming back up.
>> No. No, it's completely fine.
>> Just making sure. Make sure again you don't see anything else.
broke.
>> What? Your father?
>> Yeah. I hear this thing when we car still in the car.
But I'll say this. I I appreciate you coming up here today and being as open with us as you have.
I know there's other things you guys are gonna be doing today, but I appreciate it.
>> Not really. I actually feel safer up here.
>> Yeah. I didn't know what to do when I was in the um driveway and stuff like safe wise because I kept thinking she kept saying they're they're coming they're on their way and I kept thinking you were going around the corner around the corner and it never happened so I didn't know what to do and then once they put me in the ambulance I felt a lot better.
>> Good. And then the ambulance people treat you all right.
>> Oh yeah, they were awesome.
>> The policemen were nice and it was nice. It just I feel bad I when I talk I'm so scrambled because I can't help it.
>> What's up?
>> Okay, awesome. Hold on one sec.
Oh man.
>> I just want to find out what's going on with all these people coming at me.
>> Yeah, >> it's so frightening for me.
>> I imagine so.
I don't even know what to do if we should go back to our house or >> Well, when I don't know if Kevin asked you earlier when we were talking about it, talking about it and you said the gentleman that came up to your car, there was some familiarity there, but >> not that I can unscramble right now. I don't know. You know how like when you're the weirdness like when you're in a place and someone you know sees you and comes up starts coming up to you and you're like I know but they're out of place like out of context. It's kind of how I felt but not even that familiar and maybe I was just >> just freaked out. Maybe I was The whole thing was so goddamn freaky that >> What uh what would you what is there any way you can articulate what made you think there was some familiarity there? Was it a voice? Was it the way he looked? Was it >> It was the way he looked.
>> Okay.
>> No, that voice. I don't know what the hell was going on there, but um I don't know if he was drunk or what was going on. So, it wasn't the voice, but I really couldn't even sound hear what his voice sounds like. I hear what his when he was escalating what it was starting to get so jumbled. That's what I was freaking >> So, when he wasn't yelling or cuz you when he wasn't yelling, he was you could understand him like when he first got in. when he first got in. Yeah. And maybe he was just clear enough that I knew what he was saying.
But um as he got all excited, it just got so bad to where, like I said, wasn't even full sentences. I was like, I don't know what going on here. You know what this guy's on? That's what it seemed like.
>> You guys lived there for the past year, huh?
>> Mhm.
And it's in our business name.
>> What about your license plates? These they came back to your business too, right? Everything goes back to your business.
>> Not the truck doesn't. Not my husband's truck.
Good old channel 2 news though posted where we lived and that it was under our business name.
>> And your house is under that as well. So if I went to the St. Charles County Assessor's Guide, I could it would say >> H2 Partners. H2 Partners, >> which if you look then at the state with H2 Partners, it's us.
And he was nice enough to post that.
>> Do you need Do you need anything from me there?
>> No. Okay.
>> Take care.
>> Yeah. So, we tried to do it that way with everything after that gal. After that happened, we moved and we put everything in the business name. And then, of course, he's announced to everybody what our business name was. And they even had it on his Facebook, the state thing where it says H2 Partners and who owns it. Posted that on there and stuff. And they allowed that. They allowed that on channel 2 to I mean, he should be responsible for his Facebook page. He knows what's going on there.
>> Well, there's a lot of responsibility in the media. What I'm saying is they have a big responsibility. should >> they should in fact I'm on disability from my accidents and my um brain injuries and that psycho girl lady Chris Hayes let her post on his Facebook she said oh she's faking disability let's all write in and get her you know kicked off whatever they do he allowed that to be posted on his Facebook with a picture of the page that you contact social security to do it.
And they did. They had a bunch of calls.
So, of course, they reevaluate me because they have to. And of course, I'm disabled. He allowed that.
That's That's not right.
Because she was doing vicious stuff.
It's not He should be responsible for that kind of stuff. He wasted social security's time.
that escalated her because she thought she was really, you know, doing something big and she loves that stuff.
Brad and I was this lady from >> I don't know where um I can't remember. I think it starts with the P. I can't remember. She's like my age 57.
Now, it wasn't a kid, >> right? It was a woman who should have sex.
But I attribute that stuff like that escalates people like that, too. That [ __ ] ain't funny.
>> You don't let people post that stuff on a when you're the news and that's your Facebook page. That was Chris Hayes's Facebook page cuz he thinks that's whatever.
They have an obligation. there's no reason for him to allow those postings, especially with what was going on, you know, and it was in the newspaper about her being convict convicted and stuff in our newspaper. And um >> is that why you guys moved to this new house?
>> Mhm. And that's why we put everything in the company. I try to get away from that, you know, since the nuts. I'm just curious. You lived in Florida. You got family in Minnesota and Arizona. You ever thought about moving out of state?
>> My family's here.
>> Okay.
>> And my husband's family, his father's military.
>> Okay.
>> So, when he retired, he came to Boeing.
>> Okay. Okay.
>> And he died last year.
>> All right.
>> And his mom's down in Florida now. And his sister's in Minnesota, one brother's in Arizona, and one's in Texas.
>> They're spread all out. So you guys are kind of smack dab in the middle like right here.
>> Yeah. My whole family's here. We came back when my father died to help my mother and uh we've been here ever since. That was in 2000. He died. So we've been back ever since to help her. But uh let me think about it after this.
>> Well, I was just curious.
>> What would you do?
>> I I don't know.
>> Yeah.
>> Don't know.
Uh, if this is home, I don't know.
>> It doesn't really feel like it right now.
>> But your mom still lives in the area.
>> My mom died.
>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. She died. I'm sorry.
>> Oh, well, it gets better. She died in uh two years ago, be two years in October.
And Chris Hayes posted stuff that I killed her cuz she felt she was the one who fell off the balcony of Fenton.
thing broke down the spindles and she fell and tripped through it. He post so I got even the cycle even more going.
>> So it's fair to say you don't watch a channel too.
>> Well, you know the thing is he's worked for Joe Schwarz who was the defense lawyer the whole time. So they at the whole time they were creating reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt, reasonable doubt. He went to prison.
>> That's what a defense attorney is supposed to do, >> right? That's their job. And because of my head injury stuff and I say stuff all over the place, I forget. I say this story, then I remember different stories or whatever. Can't help that. It's just the way it is. Documented medical thing.
But >> um they just they had the media then then they did the date night thing that they're in with then.
>> What uh what were you diagnosed with?
>> I got TBI traumatic brain injury. Got a plate in my neck. Surgery in my back.
Um and I just had a car accident with bleeding in the brain.
>> You said you had two car accidents, right? So one was earlier this year. Was it April you said? Yeah, I just had one in April, but I've had um I had one where I fell and hit my head on a filing cabinet at work and that messed me up. I had an accident and that's what I they had to put a plate in my neck. I've had a lot of them like every few years or whatever. Major ones all head related.
So, >> you're a blood for punishment.
>> Well, this was the first time it was actually bleeding.
So, that was kind of scary. But they got that stopped. So, but it makes you like marshmallow. Especially when you just I can remember it seems real right now and five minutes later if I tell you something that seems real, you know, though it's all a form of it.
When I get excited and stuff, it gets all screwed up.
But that's just part of a brain injury. There's nothing I can do about that. But otherwise, you're fairly healthy.
>> Um, no. I mean, I have >> I'm not trying to get too much in person.
>> No, my back and stuff because of my surgeries and stuff. I have uh degenerative disc disease, so I got a bunch of bad discs that are just disintegrating.
>> Yeah. Anytime you have back problems, that's tough cuz you use your back for everything.
>> I've already had the one surgery on it.
>> Yeah. And I'm hoping not to get another one. I had a tear here. So, they just gave me a big pain shot in this cup here. Try to get it healed.
I'm like the tin man. I need oil every morning. That's why I go get my soda.
>> There you go. Yes, that's the answer.
Soda.
>> Could be a drug hazard.
>> Well, that's true. Soda's not that bad as I drink my Sprite.
>> And I don't drink it every day. I was on iced tea if it was. I just got to go for the carbonation. What soda do you drink?
>> Um, I get diet Dr. Pepper at the gas station and put cherry juice in it to make it really cherry.
>> Be tall.
>> But that's all I drink. I don't have soda at home either.
>> I'm not going to say they might find soda there, but I don't think we do. My husband doesn't drink soda. We don't drink very much. Drink on Fridays.
That's our little cocktail hour at home.
On Fridays, we sit on the deck and with their dog and >> ponder over the past week.
>> Yeah. And then just think God it's over, >> right?
>> You know, and decide what we're going to do for the weekend and just leave people alone.
I just don't get it, you know? I just don't get why these people keep coming at me.
That's why when I got that money, I never did anything with it. It was like cursed. So, I don't know anything to do with it.
Everybody wants that.
>> L's money.
>> That much really to do crazy [ __ ] >> 150,000. Not really.
>> It's not not in this day and age.
>> No.
>> I just had to buy a new car and it was uh $30,000 like that.
>> I know.
150. I don't buy you a squat.
>> No, I mean obviously it's a good chunk of change. It is a good chunk of money, but >> if someone gave you to it, it's great.
It's nice, but like I said, >> it's not >> mine's still sitting in the bank.
>> I'm not retiring and stop work because I got 150,000. That's what my point is.
>> How do you pay off my house?
>> It's not life-changing money, right?
>> Can't pay off my house. So, but I guess to some people they want it.
And I guess I was stupid at the beginning because at the beginning it was like, um, no, it's not what she wanted to do or she would have done something different. You're not getting it. And I dug my heels. I was probably stupid. I should have just gave it away and put the problem on someone else.
>> I don't know. I don't know enough about it. But >> I just know people's greed.
>> A lot of people are greedy people. That's for sure. I don't even know if it's greed. It's like they're they deserve it. Like it's entitlement. That entitlement like like her daughters wanted it. And I get that.
I get it. But you know, she had that policy for 15 years. They were never once on it. She's changed a couple times, but never to them and would never. And Russ was the last one of them.
But she was changing that because she was leaving them.
>> She, like I said, I haven't followed that case too much, but she did not have a good relationship with her daughters or something.
>> No, >> she loved her daughters, but they were um one was in and out of youth in need and that kind of stuff.
>> Wouldn't be good with the money.
>> No, the one was in Youth and Need, she got raped and got a settlement, $36,000.
It's gone.
>> You ask them what you think you buy a car as a young girl.
>> Nothing.
>> Party, drugs, booze, that kind of stuff.
They're the kind of girls that when my friend was dying of cancer that if she didn't give them what they want, it would be nothing to say, "You're such a bitch." You know those kind of kids, right? What a [ __ ] >> Yeah, that's never >> First, you would have killed me. Second, you just didn't.
>> Right. Yeah, I would. But that was common just those kind of that level just out of control level. So it was funny we were in a that level of kids. I don't know that cuz my kids are like one's a teacher and one's a IT professional and it's like kids like that where can't keep them in school and one got busted for dealing pot in school with Timberland and it's just weird to me you know and I always felt bad for her >> you know she couldn't control them always kicking them out they were going to grandma's or staying at aunts or you know they couldn't couldn't get on track. It seemed like >> you couldn't and I I don't know why I don't know why some kids are different.
I can assume it's how you're raised.
>> I you know I've been doing this job a little while and always curious. I get curious as to that how why certain kids turn out the way they do. I know with my friend, her biggest problem with the girls was she wanted to be their friend. Hated it when they were mad at her. So when they would curse at her, it was devastating.
>> Oh yeah.
>> What am I interrupting?
>> Nothing.
>> Okay. So, somebody asked me a question.
I did not know the answer to it. I know that we kind of went through the timeline today um about you going to Kico and looking for thrift stores. went to the mall.
Did you go to the mall before you went to the bread company or do you recall?
>> Well, I didn't go into the mall. I was going to go into the mall and then I went to the bread company to go pee.
>> Okay.
>> So, you actually went inside for that?
>> Yes, I had to go in. Yeah. Unless I got a drag to pee.
>> And then you went to Hobby Lobby.
>> Went to Hobby Lobby. Didn't go in there either cuz then I looked, you know, it was getting late. So, I had to go let my dog out and then I was going to go back up.
>> What's true about your daughter sometime in there? Yeah, cuz she's right up there, >> right?
>> Okay. Did you at any point in time did you stop by I mean did did anybody see withdraw any money or go by a bank or anything like that this did you go did you go to the ATM or anything like that?
Okay. Never went to the ATM. Never went to the bank. Nothing like that.
>> Okay.
>> So, >> girl knows me at the gas station because I'm there every morning. But >> so I I guess what I'm just trying to like figure out exactly where we were in the timeline. And basically I guess the I think you you call 911 about 12:04 I believe. Um if the notes are if my notes are right out there. Um so between 9:15 and 12:04 so it's just short of it's what 2 hours and 50 minutes or so. Um, so I'm just trying to account for all those and make sure we know every spot that you like went. So can you go can you kind of walk me through after you left Kico like where you drove and what you >> Okay. Yeah. When I left Kico I kept going down Brian Road and then sometime I crossed over. I'm not sure what that is at the end there. cross over to go to Kay and went down old Fallon and that just looking for shops and stuff like that.
So I drove all the way down what's the name of the neighborhood? Um past St. Barnabas Church which is on the right >> past that turned around a neighborhood down there because it started getting residential. came back, went down by Sanderin and them because there used to be shops back in there all closed up.
There was a strip mall next to the um dry the cleaning place there.
>> The laundromat.
>> Yeah, the laundromat to if you're looking at the laundromat to the left there's a strip mall. There used to be a resale shop in there and I went by there and they're all closed down now. And um I went up and down a couple of streets.
So I drove around there looking all around the old old family. Came back out, went down to I think I was on I think I came back out on Brian. Maybe I was okay. I don't know. But I hit Mexico. So I went down Mexico and I went down a couple streets looking down there like where um the fried chicken coupe places. Oh, I had gone to the right on um Mid Rivers because there's a um Goodwill there and stuff like that. And I thought, well, maybe there's some shops down there. So, I went and looked in there and to the right where Shnooks is, just looking for shops. Came back around and I was um just went down I think at that point I went down by the mall that way.
>> Did you do like any internet searches on your phone for thrift stores or anything like that?
>> No, cuz I wouldn't know their names.
>> Um >> Okay. So, I didn't know you just like thrift stores in St. Peters or thrift stores in Ohio to see what things.
>> Really don't do that stuff very much.
>> Okay. Um Okay. So, so you just sound like you were driving around everywhere.
>> Yeah, I just drive around everywhere.
That's just what I did.
>> So, the only stops How many actual I mean it sounds like you were driving around everywhere. How many stops did you make?
>> I think just one at the bathroom.
>> Okay. And by stop, you're you determined that to mean stop, get out of my car, it did something for you. But you did drive by the mall, drive by Hobby Lobby, drive by some of these other thrift stores, Goodwill, stuff like that. You just didn't stop.
>> No.
>> Okay. Um did you like did just ask did you make notes like uh Goodwill on Mid Rivers? Is there anything like that?
>> No, I know where that's at cuz my aunt's house is down the road off of Mid Rivers. So, I know that area.
>> Did you talk to anybody on the phone um while you were driving around or anything like that? Anybody call you?
Did you call anybody? Anything like that? Not d Nobody was with you. Nobody else was in the vehicle with you or anything like that?
>> Um I'm just trying to make sure we have a timeline and >> Yeah. No, I'm just trying to think. No, I didn't talk to anybody or >> um Okay. So, this I I'm I mean, just to to establish the timeline and all that stuff, I'm likely going to be going to or at least somebody will be going to um the bread company um and try to just see catch on video coming in um just to again show your timeline. Um is there any way you could narrow it down? Like I don't look through two hours worth of of film. Do do you know if there's a a smaller time frame? Is there anything like you can remember that might be able to narrow it down closer?
Well, if I left around 9:15, 9:30ish was at Kico. Probably 10:30, 11 maybe if I was home at 12.
>> Okay.
>> Did you you did you come across >> maybe 11?
>> Okay. 11. 10:30 11. Okay. All right.
>> Well, it helps you narrow it down. Did you Did you talk to anybody? Maybe you didn't like stop and get out of your car necessarily, but did you make any contact with anybody? Um, did you get gas at a gas station?
>> Just that morning.
>> The Kico.
>> Okay. So, you got gas. I got the Kico.
>> Yeah. And then I got my soda.
>> Okay.
>> So, I talked to the girl at the counter cuz I see her every day.
>> Okay.
Didn't stop and talk to anybody else.
Okay.
>> Okay.
I think that's it. I was just trying to make sure we knew kind of if we could narrow it down just so we could show that, you know, you're kind of code 915.
You're >> Yeah.
What's that?
So, >> okay.
You need a water, I think. I don't >> Oh, that's yours.
>> Okay.
>> We're working on getting those clothes.
>> Oh, okay.
>> As soon as we can get Oh, we got clothes. How about that?
I didn't see your point.
>> So, Miss H.
>> Yeah.
>> What we're going to do is I'm going to go get uh Officer Club again and then we're probably going to have you go in that other room and change out of your clothes. She's going to seize those clothes. Okay. And we we have your jeans. We got jeans and a shirt for you.
So, we got we got clothes for you. So, just hang tight. Okay. I'll go get uh off
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