"He's Been Out of Order for Too Long!" | Majority Leader Exposes Minority Leader

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[00:00:00]But I am pleading with majority leader that let us have a winnowing on this matter. I would want us Don't worry, Mr. Speaker. It's fine if your your your prayer and pleasure is that we should advertise the proposals and then take them back to widowing. Uh so be it. It's it's fine with me. We'll deal with it.

[00:00:23]But at least I agree. I I I I understand that fundamentally you agree with the the issues because Mr. Speaker, without sounding political, without sounding political, uh 2028 is just around the around the corner. We we don't know what's going to happen in 2029. Maybe if we do it well, it's going to benefit you tomorrow, Mr. Speaker. Um it's it's most likely because you don't have a leader now. We have. So it's most likely that you likely going into opposition and this law would protect you against any uh injustice.

[00:01:03]>> Yes, I miss government.

[00:01:05]>> I was just going to say that he's been out of order for far too long. But I understand he's been away for a while.

[00:01:12]So he wants his presence he wants his presence noticed. He wants to register his presence.

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[00:01:30]>> Honority leader, >> speaker, with respect. Uh thank you, the speaker. I've listened carefully to the great submissions uh of the majority leader but I believe the burden of my submission earlier was to look at the issues as a whole rather than dealing with them in silos.

[00:02:02]There is no difference in substance between a postconviction relief contained in this bill and a preconviction custodial orders.

[00:02:17]They are one and the same and is a reason why I'm saying that let us take a parliamentary step to address them. Mr. Speaker, the honorable leader of the house has cautioned that we should be careful in dealing with a body with coordinate mand mandate as enshrined in the constitution. I agree with him without more. But the point is that where the judiciary itself has made a pronouncement to guide in the Martin number two case the judiciary had occasion to even pronounce on these honors bill conditions and provided a guideline to the lower court. So Mr. SPEAKER WE CAN TAKE ADVANTAGE OF the judiciary's own pronouncement and and act on it. IT'S LIKE WHAT THEY did in article 185 that article 185 requires that international commercial transactions must receive parliamentary blessing and expected us in Cla case that parliament should enact a law to regulate 185.

[00:03:27]WE'VE STILL NOT DONE IT. SO THEY HAVE ALREADY GIVEN US THE opener and if there is a clear legislation Mr. SPEAKER, IT WILL HELP THE CAUSE. GHANA IS RESPECTED for promoting human right.

[00:03:42]THE TIME HAS COME for us to deal with the gaps in our laws and address them to give full confidence.

[00:03:50]Often times you hear political actors crying foul here AND THERE DEPENDING ON WHICH SIDE THEY ARE. IF THEY ARE IN OPPOSITION, you hear them loudest. If they are in government, you don't hear them. BUT MR. SPEAKER WHETHER GOVERNMENT OR IN opposition wants is injustice is INJUSTICE SO THE OPPORTUNITY is now and I'm happy that the majority leader in concluding agrees with me that we need to sit and look at it in composite if we say it is basically a postconviction law then we would be denying ourselves an opportunity to address the very concerns that the The minister responsible for this bill put out in his own argument. WE NEED TO address this issue of bail once and for all and do so by law and in clear language. AND I COULDN'T AGREE with the majority leader the more when he said that we perhaps may have to look at legislating clearly that when it is a misdemeanor the court no matter what would have to ensure that the accused in the box is granted bail in terms that would not be honorous. Mr. Speaker, I would want to end here, but I am pleading with majority leader that let us have uh winnowing on this matter. I would want us >> Don't worry, Mr. Speaker. It's fine if your your your prayer and pleasure is that we should advertise the proposals and then take them back to Widowwin. Uh so be it. It's it's fine with me. We'll deal with it. But at least I agree. I I I I understand that fundamentally you agree with the the issues because Mr. Speaker, without sounding political, without sounding political, uh 2028 is just around the around the corner. We we don't know what's going to happen in 2029. Maybe if we do it well, it's going to benefit you tomorrow, Mr. Speaker. Um it's it's most likely because you don't have a leader now. We have. So it's most likely that you likely going into opposition and this law would protect you against any injustice.

[00:06:18]>> Yes, I miss government.

[00:06:20]>> Honorable honorable members, I think uh this is not an issue that we should debate.

[00:06:30]This is not an issue we should debate in the sense that if you read paragraph one of the memorandum underpinning the bill.

[00:06:40]It reads, "The object of the bill are to establish a national community service secretarias and to provide for community service as an alternative to custodial sentence and for persons convicted of specific category of offenses.

[00:07:04]So the meaning that I gathered here and reading from plus 39 up to 45 which talks about community service order clearly means that until and unless the person is convicted this act cannot be invoked.

[00:07:28]Now when you talk about bail, bail is a preliminary issue because it is before a conviction and this act is talking about a person who is convicted should be given an alternative sentence to custodial sentence. That is when the law kicks in.

[00:07:57]So to do a winnowing and take into consideration bail in this particular law may pose a problem. I however agreed that we can do winnowing and doing winnowing is conditioned on the fact that members have amendment to the bill which is unwieldy and then we refer it to the winnowing committee to see it that is the by our own standing order that is where wowing is conducted but as we speak right now apart from the committee's amendment we don't have any other amendment from the members. So honorable members, I think until then we can make progress with this particular law. But I have a difficulty going referring the bill for wowing only to go and be talking about bail and bail conditions in this law. This law will only come into effect when a person is convicted for certain category of offenses.

[00:09:10]Yes, speaker. I agree with you in substance.

[00:09:15]Every single thing you said, including the reading of the memorandum accompanying the bill, is right and fair. But, Mr. Speaker, I am lifting the veil beyond the very bill before us to trigger or to tease out this issue largely because of what the minister said yesterday in his debate. And Mr. Speaker, you and I know that we've had instances where bills are introduced and based on the thinking of the house. Same had been redrawn and enriched considering other factors. So, Mr. Speaker, it was on that basis that I raised that issue. But I would bring my amendment. We'll discuss it and see the way forward. But it is important and I want Hanza to take note of this important view of mine THAT WE CANNOT DEAL with postconviction sentencing regime in the form of a community service when we know that as part of the criminal juristprudence the ecosystem of the criminal law also gives way allows for bail or some pre-custodial sentencing custody the court is empowered to remand.

[00:10:43]So Mr. Speaker, if we are dealing with it and you are right, if the law says let's deal with only post custodial sentencing and we know that there's already A PROBLEM WITH REGARDS TO CERTAIN INTRIM ORDERS, we better ADDRESS THAT ALSO. THAT is where I am coming from. But I don't disagree with you. But yes, but I would want to advise and humbly crave your indulgence that with the concerns that we have raised then you must bring a private members bill to come and amend the criminal procedure act. Mr. Speaker, already there's a judicial pronouncement. Mr. Speaker, the Supreme Court in in in in Martin number two.

[00:11:27]>> Yes, >> Mr. Speaker, the Supreme Court of Ghana was very loud.

[00:11:33]Was very loud and laid out >> Yes.

[00:11:37]>> a procedure.

[00:11:38]>> Yes.

[00:11:38]>> And gave the grounds >> and cautioned itself.

[00:11:42]>> Yes.

[00:11:42]>> Especially when it comes to the discretion being exercised. And Mr. Speaker, the constitution itself, let me let me read, let me read the constitution, article 296, Mr. Speaker, for the avoidance of doubt, it provides with your leave. HE SAID WHERE in this constitution or in any other law discretionary power is vested in any person or authority that discretionary power shall be deemed to imply a duty to be fair and candid.

[00:12:16]>> YES.

[00:12:17]>> THE EXERCISE OF THE discretion power shall not be arbitrary, capriccious or bias either by resentment, prejudice or personal dislike or shall be in accordance with due process of law. SO MR. SPEAKER BASICALLY if in considering this bill >> we want to legislate Mr. Speaker let me >> take the or take the disc if we want to legislate >> in granting bill TO FACTOR TO FACTOR IN THESE PREDICATED ISSUES PROVIDED for in THE CONSTITUTION. MR. THIS country will be seen to be upholding the rights OF CITIZENS FAIRLY AND ACROSS BOARD AND IT WILL BE A BEYOND DEBATE. SO MR. SPEAKER, IT'S ONLY A CAUTION.

[00:13:03]IT IS NOT A MATTER OF DISAGREEING WITH YOU. I AGREE.

[00:13:07]>> I agree that the law as it is, the proposal as it is is for postconviction.

[00:13:13]>> Yes.

[00:13:14]>> BUT THE MINISTER HIMSELF, MR. SPEAKER RAISED serious concerns ABOUT BAIL NOT MY argument that is the minister's argument THE MINISTER SAID BAIL IS BEING abused >> okay >> by the police and the judiciary I will say in regard to the the the community service bill anything relating to bail is out of place >> very well Mr. That is understood. But I'm bringing an override submission for us to consider THAT INSTEAD OF DEALING with it in isolation, it is AN OPPORTUNITY FOR US, A GOLDEN opportunity for us as A HOUSE TO DEAL WITH the issue as a whole. And I expect the lawyers in this chamber to rise up on this occasion to support this call.

[00:14:02]>> BUT ONCE WE ARE DEALING WITH POSTCONVICTION, LET'S DEAL WITH THE ISSUE OF BAIL AND ACT on it collectively. With all due respect, not when we are considering a bill unrelated to bail.

[00:14:13]Yes, Majority Leader.

[00:14:15]>> I was just going to say that he's been out of order for far too long. But I understand he's been away for a while, so he wants his presence. He wants his presence noticed. He wants to register his presence. Honorable members, human sexual rights and family values bill 2025 at consideration stage.

[00:14:42]Okay.

[00:14:44]Yes. Chairman of the committee, are you ready?

[00:14:50]Very well, >> Mr. Speaker. The chairman himself is in Saudi Arabia performing Hajj. So the vice chairperson will lead us in this regard. Honorable Shu.

[00:15:05]>> Yes. The vice chairperson will lead us.

[00:15:12]Speaker with respect I want to be brought to speed by the majority leader.

[00:15:16]this uh bill we are about considering is this a private members bill or a government sponsored bill? Mr. Speaker, I'm sorry I wasn't here yesterday. I've not had the opportunity of having a discussion with the the the the majority leader on this important matter. So this is the private members bill. I see.

[00:15:46]Well, Mr. Speaker, I just want clarity on this one. I want clarity.

[00:15:52]Mr. Speaker, this bill has always been a private members bill.

[00:15:58]Government has no objection. Attorney General has not indicated any objection to any thing contained in this bill, but it has always been a private members bill sponsored by members of this house and it is a bipartisan bill because we have members from both the majority and minority um appending their names as sponsors. So that's that's what it is and it remains that way.

[00:16:34]Speaker, with respect, this is a house of records. Um, the majority leader says that government is not opposed to this bill and the attorney general likewise has expressed no objection. I just want to know the terms of such submission. Is he saying it in terms of a written record to this parliament or a no objection memo to that effect? I just want clarity since he's the leader of government.

[00:17:01]>> Honorable minority leader, when you are confronted with a bill and the bill is a private member's motion, whether the consent by the government, the consent by the attorney general is in writing or not is neither here nor there.