Live Stream with Fr. Murr

Added: 2026-05-12

[00:00:10]Heat.

[00:00:25]Heat.

[00:00:41]Hello, I'm Robert Moahan, the editor of Inside the Vatican magazine for more than 30 years. I'm with Don Carlos Mr. who's in southern Spain near the great city of Seville. Greetings, Father Mr. It's uh Wednesday, May 6.

[00:00:59]>> Greetings right back to you, Robert.

[00:01:01]All right, we are uh on May 6, 2026 and uh so springtime is here and one year ago there was uh the celebration of the conclave. The conclave was meeting on this day. They went into conclave tomorrow that is May 7th and uh May 8th which is Friday they elected Robert Prevost Pope Leo I 14th.

[00:01:31]Um we are now therefore one year into a new pontificate and we face a series of questions. Uh many people are living their lives and they don't uh relate every day the way you and I do to what happens in Rome. But uh the world uh is watching as there is a war in the Middle East, a double war with Gaza, Lebanon, Iran. You might call it a triple war.

[00:02:02]And Pope uh Leo has been calling for peace and Donald Trump in the United States has been saying uh he's working for peace and Leo doesn't understand understand that what he's doing is necessary and that Leo owes his papacy to the fact that he was elected president. So there's been a back and forth between the American president, leader of the world's great temporal power, and Pope Lee in Rome, an American who is the leader of the Roman Catholic Church, the world's great spiritual power. So there's uh the Secretary of State of the United States, Marco Rubio, is traveling today, I believe, to Rome. He'll be there tomorrow. should meet with the pope tomorrow and he's supposed to smooth things over. There are signs that the war in Iran may come to an end. There's reports from the from the president that there's an agreement is nearing.

[00:03:00]However, we've heard this several times and there's also other reports in the underbrush that there are preparations made for a further attack if these agreements don't follow through.

[00:03:14]Then there's also uh uh all sorts of turmoil in the church. Father Mr. There's the transalpine uh redemptorrists have called and there's six priests and about 20 uh others with those priests. I I believe they're deacons and they called for an imperfect council. They said they're upset with the modernism in the church. And there's a a number of podcasters who are saying they're not all satisfied with Pope Leo. They feel that he's continued the line of Pope Francis. He's very uh faithful to the line of Francis.

[00:03:57]And they sometimes say that he's worse than Pope Francis because he's better than Pope Francis in a sense less less uh casual, less disorganized, that he's more organized.

[00:04:11]I just am reporting this father my uh asking for your judgment of the times one year after the election of Leo. How is the situation of our church? What's the status?

[00:04:25]>> Well, as far as I'm concerned and and that's a very uh important thing to keep in consideration for what I'm going to say. This is my opinion. Uh I think times are worse now than they were under uh Pope Francis. I believe they're worse. Uh because a lot of the things that Pope Francis did, he did uh how would you say haphazardly, I think.

[00:04:55]uh his off-the- cuff remarks, uh the interviews that he gave here and there, the uh the uh the interviews that he gave exclusively to atheists who were friends of his. Uh these kind of things, they were they were not well thought out at all. And uh when he made mistakes in what he said and he made quite a few of them, there was no apology, there was no clarification.

[00:05:22]There was nothing nothing uh he didn't receive people who had some serious questions for him to answer. He refused to to admit those people. So it was a very closed sort of u pontificate. I don't recall anything in modern history quite like it. As a matter of fact, I don't recall anything in 2,000 years of Catholic history quite like it. And I'm I'm kind of a history a church history buff.

[00:05:51]Anyway, I think this pontificate uh is is worse in this sense.

[00:06:01]We have a man who I believe is more gifted in intelligence than uh than the previous pope.

[00:06:12]But he's following the same path. He's following the same path. He's not gotten off a path that many of us consider uh wrong wrongly directed. this cenodal path uh which is uh is going anywhere but but in a Catholic direction and also I think this present pope is much more political politically minded than than Papa Begolio in the sense that um he seems to be very uh now when I when I say anti-American I'm simply saying this, keep in mind that that President Trump won the election by the popular vote, not just the electoral uh college, but the but the popular vote of the United States. He is the candidate of of of America. He is the president of the United States. And uh I don't think this pope is too happy with that.

[00:07:18]Evidently, he's not too happy with that.

[00:07:21]He seems to be doing a lot of things to to provoke and to counter any direction that our president would have even if the that direction be uh sort of neutral. The the recent bishops that he has appointed that have come out of Rome are to the United States especially are political statements.

[00:07:46]One was just was was named Bishop who had uh who was allegedly the betrayer of Bishop Strickland. So he was rewarded for that betrayal. Uh another one was was an illegal immigrant into the United States from El Salvador and he was made bishop of of of a dascese in the United States uh as an illegal alien. Uh I the the messages are being sent messages are being sent and I don't think a lot of Catholics appreciate that. There you asked my opinion you have it.

[00:08:25]>> Well could you explain the bishop you said who had betrayed Bishop Strickland.

[00:08:30]Actually I'm not sure who that is.

[00:08:32]>> Yes. There was his name is Father Father John Father John Gomez. He allegedly, I don't have the facts to it, but allegedly a lot of three priests that we've talked to, uh, attest to the fact that he was behind the the ousting of of Bishop Strickland.

[00:08:51]Uh, he had a lot to do with that. Uh, and that he was that he was untrustworthy, this that, and the other thing. He is being sent to Laredo to Laredo, Texas. Now, I'm just thinking this, and I say this to the clergy of Laredo. If this is true, if this is true, if he had anything whatsoever to do with the ousting or the removal of Bishop Strickland, who I consider a saintly man, a gentleman, and a scholar, I really do. A good man and a man strong in the Catholic faith. There's no question of that. if he was uh instrumental in any way for for getting Bishop Strickland removed from Tyler, Texas, uh I would just warn the the clergy of Laredo if he would do that to his own superior.

[00:09:42]Uh you should be very you should be very uh very wary of of of of your own futures. That's all I'm saying that and people see that. People see that and all of these appointments are political. One being rewarded for this, one being an illegal alien in the United States being made a bishop uh right now is uh he knows that that's a that's a red flag to to to President Trump and to the administration. He knows that it's being done. It has to be be being done on purpose. This these are not accidents. All of the bishops that have been elected named recently are all of the same.

[00:10:26]>> Well, we have someone among our viewers.

[00:10:29]Let in chalet. Letin chalet 5473.

[00:10:35]Thank you, Father and Robert, for this wonderful discussion today. It is so much appreciated to be able to hear a candid and honest conversation about all these things that so deeply affect all.

[00:10:49]Um, but I now I'm going to have to dig in a little deeper here, father, because >> Go right ahead.

[00:10:56]>> Well, you spoke about betrayal.

[00:11:00]>> Uh, one bishop of another. This reminds us of Judas and that even in a sense reminds us of Peter denying Christ. Uh it's something we all hope to avoid. We hope to be loyal.

[00:11:15]And in our church we have a structure an institutional structure which is hierarchical. And in the dome of St. Peters in Rome we have the words to Satus.

[00:11:26]>> You are Peter.

[00:11:29]Now all across the landscape of the church we face the question how can we be loyal Catholics and criticize Peter.

[00:11:39]To what extent are we like the boy who says to the emperor you know you emperor you have no clothes and everyone else is flattering him. So, but the one most loyal truly is the boy who tells the truth because the king is badly deluded about how well he's been dressed by the fake courtiers who've left him naked.

[00:12:03]>> And I do think Leo has around him courtiers who are telling him do this and do that. And I I am sure that he has others in the curia who are very sound.

[00:12:15]I had an hourong conversation with Cardinal Müller just a few days ago, not long after you and I were in Rome together. And uh you he's he's concerned and that the pope be uh become Peter and lead the church not in a direction that the world wishes or political powers, economic powers, ideological powers. But this is now and always very difficult because each of these powers threatens and uh harumps and and sends lightning bolts and threatens to cut off funding etc. But also inside the church we have um our own problems and inside each one of us. So, how is the true loyalty to be shown? And is it so serious that people would consider uh denouncing as these transalpine redempt uh we must call for an imperfect council and elect another one. Father, I hate to bring this question up, but would this not be madness?

[00:13:35]And wouldn't it would it not perhaps serve the devil's purpose?

[00:13:41]>> Yes and no. There are two sides to that, right? Like most things, uh let me let me say this.

[00:13:50]My intention personally speaking, I will never leave the Catholic Church.

[00:13:57]I'm never going to do that. I'm going to stay inside. I'm going to remain faithful to what? To what? Am I remaining faithful? To the holy Catholic apostolic faith.

[00:14:13]That's what I'm remaining faithful to. U I disagree with with I've I've disagreed with many popes on many things that they've done. U and and I'm I I need to say this. We are free as Catholics to do that.

[00:14:30]I'm not of that old-fashioned pos position that oh you you mustn't criticize anything that that that that comes out of Rome. Yes, you you can criticize it. What we can criticize is doctrine and dogma. That's not up for for debate and morals, moral theology, moral teaching, I should say, moral declarations. These stand firm and that is our Catholic faith. Not in the politics of a particular pope. one one pope in the middle ages declares war on France, another one declares war on Sicily.

[00:15:05]We're not involved in that. Those are political decisions. Uh and many times many times history has shown those popes to be very wrong. Very wrong.

[00:15:16]>> Uh that was not Christ's guarantee for his church.

[00:15:21]Let's remember this too just as a very a very prime example and I mean that in the literal sense of the word prime. St. Paul criticized St. Peter.

[00:15:34]>> St. Paul criticized St. Peter. He did it in in a constructive way. But he said to St. Peter, the the first pope, you are wrong. You're wrong in what you're in what you're teaching on this particular point. It had to do with the with the the practice of Judaism continued continued in the in the uh in the early church. That's a that's a whole another theme. A very interesting one. But Paul Paul told Peter, "You're wrong."

[00:16:03]And Peter with the help of a vision also that bolstered Paul's opinion admitted that he was well. This is very good. This is this is constructive criticism. This is we are what I'm trying to say is that we are bound to the dogma and doctrine of the Catholic Church what the church teaches not to any political moves by popes or this that and the other thing.

[00:16:31]We have had some we had had we've had some bishops named in the last 50 years who have been disastrous. Absolutely disastrous. Uh I mean I'm not going to start mentioning names. there's no need to but but they've been disastrous because they have not been Catholic.

[00:16:48]It's real it's real simple. It's not it's not complex this problem. And what I think people are are are asking for is again I've said it a hundred times on this program alone clarity clarity.

[00:17:02]Clarity and that's the only thing that's not forth with forthcoming. It's simply not >> I appreciate very much your words. You still leave one area open which I'm going to bring up in a moment. But first show this comment from Chesty Marine who's a faithful viewer. Thank you. Pope Leo is surrounded by wolves. Can you imagine a group of wolves and he's in this he's in the center of a of a clearing maybe with a campfire and all around they're ready to devour him as many popes throughout history have.

[00:17:39]What measures the man is how he is able to function and stave off those constantly nipping at his feet. I think he puts it too lightly. They don't just nip at his feet. they go for his >> right >> um >> they go for the jugular >> because because they've concluded that their vision of the church and of the way things should go or maybe because they're judices in a sense they they say uh uh you know you shouldn't have allowed this woman to pour the the oil uh upon your your feet and anoint you because we could have sold that oil and used it for the poor >> and Then Jesus reprimanded him. Uh so around the pope there are advisers.

[00:18:25]They've gotten into position and around the world in the German episcopate in America.

[00:18:32]But still you said the apostolic faith in part that apostolic faith includes a belief in Peter that we are loyal to the pope and even Paul debating with Peter asked Peter to accept his view.

[00:18:50]What if Peter were to say to me or to you, Father Mr. I have prayed over this and for the moment I ask you to obey me and where where do we become Protestants if we say no I won't >> I'll go back yes I I understand your question it's a very good question I'll go back to what I said before if it's dealing with faith and morals I'll listen if it has to do with politics I'm sorry I have my opinion you have your opinion that's all there is to it seems very let me just put it quite clearly and frankly. It seems very obvious that uh Cardinal Koopich and and this pope would like all Americans to be Democrats.

[00:19:40]I mean, this is this is what they're this is what they're pushing. That's not going to happen.

[00:19:46]that they would like they would like all Catholics all Catholic Americans to be Democrats to to vote with the Democrat party. Abortion uh as Cardinal Kich has said is not really that's not the number one issue. Uh these things can be uh uh uh understood in different light. This that and the other thing what what is intolerable is the Republican party right now and their their their governing of the United States. Well, I disagree with that completely.

[00:20:16]Completely. Am I being disloyal to the Pope?

[00:20:22]Because it's obvious what his direction is in all of this. I told you he's he's naming all bishops who are who could be running for governor of any state as a Democrat.

[00:20:33]This is obvious what he's doing. That's fine. But I disagree with that. I I disagree with that uh uh what do you call it?

[00:20:40]>> Okay. with that with that take on things. That's not his department >> and I don't have to agree with that.

[00:20:49]>> I'm free to disagree.

[00:20:51]You're doubling down on the principle that there's a sphere which is doctrinal and there's a sphere which is earthly, worldly, political where we may disagree and uh that the doctrinal authority the pope does is valid over doctrinal matters so long as he preserves all of the tradition faithfully which is his job, his duty, his mission, his carrorism. We we believe he has a special carrorism to to carry that out. But you're arguing that in a very large number of areas matters are not doctrinal but political and worldly and prudential and in those areas we're free. This is similar to what Quigley 30 >> This is similar to what Quigley 301 says. Thank you Quigley. I am in the arch dascese of Washington. Take a look at our new cardinal archbishop, a very progressive and questionable man. He is very anti-Trump. This is precisely your point that it's he doesn't even mention a doctrinal matter. He mentions a political matter. In other words, we've got a lot of mixing between doctrinal and political matters. And you've been insisting we should be clear in separating them. But the question arises in the social teaching of the church in the extrapolation from basic doctrine out to justice out to charity out to uh the uh the corporal works of mercy which are consequences of the faith. There are uh teachings that have become part of the ordinary magisterium of the church speaking about the need for just wages for example where we no longer we no longer have the liberty uh in doctrinal terms to say these are not matters that are connected with the faith. How can we continue to draw the line?

[00:23:00]>> Well, just a minute. Just a minute. They are connected with the faith. They are because they're connected with justice.

[00:23:07]Who would deny a worker his his rightful wage?

[00:23:12]>> Who would do that?

[00:23:14]>> Well, >> that's one of that's one of the sins.

[00:23:15]That's one of the sins in the Old Testament. One of the sins that cries to heaven for vengeance, not paying the worker what he owed. All right.

[00:23:23]>> Well, it serious.

[00:23:26]>> It often occurs. Father, >> yes. Yes. You know what else often occurs? Sin. I've noticed that.

[00:23:37]Sin often occurs. That doesn't make it right. And we're supposed to be fighting as well as we can to bring man into virtue, not and and get him out of vice.

[00:23:48]We understand that. We are imperfect. We understand that, too. But the goal is to be just, to be correct, to be just. And this is what the social teaching of the church has always taught.

[00:24:02]May may I I'll take that back. Hasn't always taught that so so clearly. uh from Leo the 13th on there's been a there's been clarity in that from the from the industrial revolution which is which is what we've inherited to our mo our modern world has inherited from that point on and Pope Leo I 13th on uh there's been uh a remarkable clarity on the justice that is owed real justice not nonsensical justice real justice owed to the to the worker uh owed owed to the individual owned to to individual rights and what have you.

[00:24:42]Those are religious principles. They're principles of secular justice in often in many cases, but they're also religious principles. Uh >> look, a couple of weeks ago, we were talking about a just war. Remember that?

[00:24:58]Remember that program?

[00:25:00]>> All right.

[00:25:01]>> Okay.

[00:25:03]I'm not I'm not going to get into that.

[00:25:05]I'm not going to get into that whole thing, but I took the points of a just war and said I find that the intervention the inter intervention of the United States in Iran uh is a just war by going through those points. I don't disagree with those points, but I come to a different conclusion.

[00:25:27]A progressive would come to a different conclusion. That's fine. But we're both following those those points and we both have valid points. That is up to the that is up to to my conscience to make that decision. It's not I I don't need that uh I don't need somebody telling me what what is right and what is wrong on that issue. I'm an I'm an adult. I'm a well-educated Catholic. I have a conscience. I'm to use that conscience in making those decisions. And in the end, And in the end, I'm going to be judged on my conscience. I'm not going to be judged uh on anything else. My conscience before God. Um >> yeah, >> that's that's how I would answer that.

[00:26:10]>> All right. You you you said the Catholic Church asks for people to act virtuously for the common good and to sort of build up in this world the kingdom which will not fully appear. and be real until the next world. And this reminded of my favorite quote from Dante, which I put into the comments. I just put this in as a kind of cultural and moral axiom that I think people should be aware of and uh I I I like it so much.

[00:26:46]And uh they they meet uh Ulisses in Inferno and they uh he reminds them of what he said to his sailors about what it is to be a man. These are not Christians. This is a thousand years before Christ or more.

[00:27:09]We are virt you were not made to live like brute beasts but to pursue virtue and knowledge. So this was a classical and uh really a pagan vision but it's a vision that is not incompatible with the Christian vision that we should seek virtue and seek knowledge as we try to carry out in this world the Christian life which I think is is the is the narrow path beset with wolves and temptation. patience and beset with problems. But nevertheless, which the church continually teaches is the path we must take, trying striving to be virtuous. Correct?

[00:28:04]>> Yes. Okay. And this is what we call right this is what we call right reason.

[00:28:08]And the pagans in in great part had right reason especially the Greeks. They weren't right on everything because they didn't have the the light of revelation.

[00:28:20]They didn't have the uh sacred scripture. They didn't have the the New Testament. They didn't have Jesus Christ. So, but they had reason. And reason is not against the faith.

[00:28:35]Faith and reason go together. And what they had without the faith, they had reason that brought them to the understanding that man can be virtuous and should be. And they strove to to be Jew virtuous. That's marvelous. Much of our much of our moral uh and ethical codes in today uh stem from the from the Greeks and some from the Romans and other philosophers from ancient times using natural reason. This is marvelous.

[00:29:06]It's a gift from God.

[00:29:08]>> Okay. Now, using natural reason, how do we assess this overall war situation, including what's occurred in Gaza, including what's occurring in southern Lebanon, and including the uh inevitable consequences of this present situation for the world economy due to the closing of the straight of Hormuz?

[00:29:35]Do you think that the consequences of these uh and and the the methods used in carrying out these wars do fully comply with the requirements of just war?

[00:29:51]I don't find them I don't find them against the requirements of just war of a just war.

[00:29:58]Uh there's there's some doubt that I have on on on on the there's some doubt that I have because I don't have all of the facts. I confess that. But I don't find them I don't find them necessarily o overtly against the principles of a just war.

[00:30:17]>> Right.

[00:30:18]>> Now those again those again that's not just that's not religious opinion. It's also reasonable opinion. It's philosophical opinion. It's also political opinion. So, uh, you kind of get into areas that are that are that are not so that are not so religious.

[00:30:37]They have more to do with the the way the world is and and and the realistic way of the world is.

[00:30:45]>> All right. Um, I don't want to pursue this too much, but we do have a comment.

[00:30:51]Um, I'll let our viewer speak. Thank you, William Martin Jr. 3627.

[00:30:59]Love you, Father Mr. But just for includ me measured retaliation. Well, he's engaging you. The secular nation, >> right?

[00:31:12]>> Uh I think of J apostrophe S I guess is referring to the Jews. I'm not positive.

[00:31:21]the secular nation is decimating children, the weak, the innocent, etc. With modern tech, there is no excuse. Uh that's a very condensed and somehow but just it's a it's a cry from someone saying maybe there has been injustice in the pursuit of this war.

[00:31:45]Robert, I am going to try to I'm I'm going to try to get into a a different uh uh Wi-Fi station here because I'm not I'm missing about every third word you're saying. Let me just try this. I hope we're not disconnected. If we are, I'll I'll I'll get reconnected. Hang on.

[00:32:03]Let's see if this goes through >> if this works because I I really am not understanding what you're saying.

[00:32:10]>> I'm sorry.

[00:32:12]All right. That's there's nothing to apologize for. It's it's it's a modern technology is not up to what it uh claims it is in many cases.

[00:32:22]Let's see.

[00:32:24]You you can hear me well.

[00:32:26]>> I can hear you well.

[00:32:28]>> Okay. Go ahead. Let's let's try this.

[00:32:32]>> Okay. Go ahead. Well, in uh in essence uh I tried to deal with this whole question and I too wish to be fair and uh if a nation is threatened with the destruction and it needs to defend itself, obviously this is part of just war. On the other hand, if it's not uh if there are crimes committed against civilians etc. in this process, these have to be minimized.

[00:33:01]uh there are innocents but the entire matter over the past century or more has been complicated by the by the new technologies of bombing etc. The Pope famously a few weeks ago said that bombing should be banned because of course we try to you pre use precision bombing very precise and just kill military officials. But uh we we often have collateral damage and then the next apartment building is a woman.

[00:33:31]>> Yes. But and you're right. You're right.

[00:33:33]And again it's like the the point I was trying to make with with the existence still of sin in the world. It's not perfect. It's not a perfect system. But my goodness, when when we compare it with uh the world wars one and two, with Vietnam, with Korea, with soldiers on the ground losing their life, maimed and and and what have you. The new technology in warfare, this going this is going to sound horrible, but it is a blessing in the sense that it's saving civilian lives.

[00:34:05]If there's going to be conflict, it can be solved with, as you say, surgically removing. I remember hearing that for the first time in the in the 1970s, I think it was. He so and so was si surgically removed. Well, that that's a better uh uh alternative than than than a full-scale war with boots on the ground. That's that's that I'm trying to say.

[00:34:29]>> It's not wonderful. No war is wonderful and nobody wants war, >> but uh there are cases that that it's necessary and you have to defend. you have to defend.

[00:34:40]>> Well, I I did want to mention that I struggled mightily and I talked with my son about it who's uh written an editorial for the very first time and uh we put it in our magazine. Here's a the latest copy of our magazine and I chose the title, Peace in the Name of Christ.

[00:35:01]And there's Pope Leo holding up the cross. And I I tried to find a way in between these uh these terrific uh difficulties of nations and uh um regimes oppressive and uh and uh seeking seeking to to survive and to live. uh and uh my son Christopher wrote this uh editorial for the first time and I thought he did a nice job. The uh the world we are living in now uh is turning to technology and this is perhaps the next part of this podcast father but I wanted to ask you do you know anything about my magazine?

[00:35:51]>> Well let me jump in right now. First of all, anybody who listens to this program and does not subscribe to Inside the Vatican, shame on you. Shame on you. You should be subscribing to the magazine. You really should because this is the way that Inside the Vatican continues. This is how it flourishes and continues and has a future. So I would I would advise anyone who loves me even the people who love me but even those to to get a subscription to inside the Vatican. Uh we're talking about we're talking in a in an hour show Robert and myself about themes that are some of them are are very delicate and I hope all of them are important. Well there's only so much you can convey in conversation with the spoken word. But the written word uh is is is more serious more seriously taken. You have time also to digest what is written uh in a different way than than what is spoken. Uh I really would encourage everyone to uh to subscribe to Inside the Vatican. It's also important to have a Catholic magazine, a Catholic news presence in your home. It's it's important. Uh we grew up with with with Catholic uh uh publications coming to our home along with Time magazine and Newsweek. They were they were every week. They arrived I think on Tuesday or something. But it's uh it's very important to have Catholic publications and I think you'll find nothing more Catholic than inside the Vatican. And the people who listen to this program know that. So come on uh use your use your use your your uh your pens and uh write out a subscription form or or the computer and uh and get on with that today. That's very important. It's very it's also important for the continuation of this show. Is it not Robert?

[00:38:00]>> Well very very helpful. It's uh we love the way the magazine goes gives us the the the power to be able to broadcast.

[00:38:09]>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. We're doing this essentially for free and we do have >> except except for my my uh my uh fantastic salary that I draw every every week.

[00:38:22]>> Yeah. Yeah. Which we both we I'm kidding. I'm kidding. I'm kidding. We both do this for free. We do it for free and out of love of the truth and we're trying to come to the truth and trying to be helpful to other people who are searching for it. Nobody nobody makes a a killing off this this kind of program.

[00:38:40]We don't get paid at all.

[00:38:42]>> Well, we have a couple of couple of comments.

[00:38:44]>> The magazine by supporting the magazine would be a very good way to to uh to support this program also. That's my point.

[00:38:52]>> Okay. Absolutely. And uh I'm very honored that you uh took the few moments to speak. Um a couple of comments here.

[00:39:01]Someone Quigley says, "Wonderful magazine."

[00:39:04]Um, and you said it tonight.

[00:39:07]>> If you remember, if you remember correctly, Robert, that this is the way that that you and I uh truly met.

[00:39:15]Uh, uh, I I published an article in your magazine in inside the Vatican on Mother Pelina.

[00:39:22]>> Okay.

[00:39:23]>> And we went back and forth and we had a dialogue and an interview and everything else. And it's it's how we became friends was through the magazine. So, I have a a fondness for the magazine. I also it's its writing style and its themes are serious ones. They're not frivolous. Uh it's good reporting.

[00:39:42]>> Oh, >> get a subscription.

[00:39:46]>> Okay, we we have >> I will subscribe.

[00:39:50]>> But I just keep putting it off.

[00:39:53]>> Well, very good. Stop now, Terry, and do it.

[00:39:57]>> All right. I um I think I have to try to trans uh transfer to pivot here. The Pope is due to come out with his first encyclical that's supposed to come out May 15th.

[00:40:15]May 15th is an anniversary of other social encyclicals.

[00:40:20]Uh I'm going to get to that too, but I just had in my notes another matter that I wanted to mention to you. Father, you can comment briefly. We'll come back to the encyclical which will be on artificial intelligence which does have to do with the new technologies and the interface between those technologies and church teaching. To what extent you will see >> that will be that will be very interesting. I would be very interested in reading that.

[00:40:45]>> Okay. But there's this other fellow his name is Lawrence Wilkerson.

[00:40:49]You see this? and uh he's about 80 years old and he just was interviewed on Tucker Carlson and he had been the head of the naval the mil the Marine Corps War College and he had been the top of the staff of Secretary of State Colon Powell in the early 2000s. He said that there were uh mistakes and exaggerations in some of the materials that he helped prepare for Coen Powell with regard to going into Iraq.

[00:41:24]But then at the end of his uh podcast, he said that the United States has in its dossas and its desks in uh in military and and social and geopolitical planning having to do with the Catholic Church.

[00:41:44]The plan for more than a hundred years to have a pope in Rome who would be entirely supportive of the United States. he might be an American pope. He said this in his interview with Tucker Carlson that the United States had a great interest in who the Pope is and what is and how he could be supportive of US foreign policy. I just thought I'd let you comment on that for one moment.

[00:42:10]>> Well, why wouldn't the United States be interested in in uh in in in the papacy and in the in the the present pope in the world? Why wouldn't they? He's a leader. He's a leader of a billion people. Over over a billion people. He has a Let me just put it this way. He has an influence some influence on over 1 billion. Two 1.2 billion people in the world. Yes, the United States would have would have interest in that. I'm sure Russia also has interested in that. Cuba has interested in that. Argentina has interested in that. All of the nations in the world would like to have a person who would bolster to some degree their own political philosophy. I can understand that we used to have we used to have uh popes that were very anti-communist, anti-marxists and they were clear in their teaching. That has dissipated. Unfortunately, we have another philosophy coming in that's more more social socially inclined. However, uh why wouldn't why wouldn't the United States want want a pope that that would be more or less on their side? Nation would.

[00:43:25]>> Okay, that's a data point people should keep in mind. And I also would say the phrase that's dear to my heart and I almost would say the motto of the magazine that I've edited for more than 30 years is libertas ecclesia.

[00:43:44]Libertas, liberty or freedom, ecclesia of the church, the freedom of the church, the liberty of the church, which means to be free not to be influenced and under the power of secular ideas, worldly ideas, the ideas of the wolves, business ideas, but to hear the Holy Spirit and to guide the church in the path of virtue and in the path of salvation.

[00:44:14]With the supreme law being the second motto, the the supreme law of the church being the salvation of souls which means any even one soul being saved is of infinite worth. And uh these two principles that the church operates on another level than other societal structures that it is interested in an eternal dimension to the human person and is interested in freely speaking to that dimension and not being influenced by passing social fads or sociological fads. These are the two principles that have been guiding me during these years.

[00:44:58]And I think they're reaching a pinnacle of importance right now.

[00:45:04]And where does that liberty come from, Robert, if not from the truth?

[00:45:09]>> Well, it certainly >> our Lord said our Lord said it. The truth will set you free, >> right?

[00:45:16]>> The truth will give us freedom.

[00:45:19]o over and over again, someone will say, "Well, if you shade this truth a little bit, you'll have different tax breaks or you'll receive different funding." In other words, there's corruption that can creep in. So, the >> I'll leave that to the lawyer.

[00:45:39]I'm just saying we we must support the church and protect the church from all those who would like to distort it and make it worldly. And so I agree with everyone among our viewers that the crisis is upon us and we're in danger of yielding on a number of areas and we must find a way to protect. But the third principle I do want to propose is if Where Peter is there is the church.

[00:46:10]Now if there is no Peter this would be the sad aantis position. We would still have a holy sea which is the the mystical presence as it were of all the magisterium of 2,000 years. But there are people out there, Father Mr, who say the sea is impeded or the sea is vacant that somehow modernists and then and they refer back to the to the uh prediction the prophecy of Lassolet that Antichrist will will take over the the sea of of of Rome. I don't know if you'd like to comment in any way on this, but the idea is getting out that we're in such a grave crisis that some of these things are true right now.

[00:46:59]>> Yeah. You don't you don't leave. Even though the the it might seem that the that that it's a sinking ship, you don't abandon ship. You don't do that. If you're the captain or anyone close to the captain, you stay with the ship. uh you can the the problem is this. First of all uh to leave the church to leave the church and and say that uh that the pope is the anti-popee or that the pope is a a a false pope in in any sense. Uh I don't have that authority.

[00:47:37]I don't have that authority. That's not my that's not my that's not my part that's not part of my job description.

[00:47:43]Robert, nor is it yours.

[00:47:47]There are people who can decide that.

[00:47:50]Until now, they haven't said the contrary to what's going on. So, I assume that the pope is the pope and I will obey him on matters of faith and morals.

[00:48:02]I remind I remind the pope in all humility that it is his job to defend the truths of the Catholic faith. That is his primary task in life. That's his primary vocation as pope. To defend the truth, not to invent new things, but to defend what is. Uh and and as long as he does that, that's what I listen to.

[00:48:31]other things, his political views on this that the other thing. Uh they can either interest me or not interest me or I find them I find them of uh of value or not of value. That's fine. That's that's up to me. But where I listen to him is when he defends the Catholic faith.

[00:48:49]That simple, I think.

[00:48:51]>> All right.

[00:48:51]>> I'm not going anywhere. Neither are you.

[00:48:53]We're we're remaining faithful Catholics inside inside the Vatican, inside the church.

[00:49:01]Okay. Uh there's a number of other points here to add in. Father Mr. I I reconnected with an old associate of mine, a my assistant editor from 22 years ago and uh Dia Gallagher who I was sometimes invited to go on to CNN or Fox to talk for two three minutes in front of a screen across a room where I couldn't even see the person I was talking to but would appear in my in my earphones back in the early 2000s. And one time I was tired. I said, "Delia, why don't you go?" And they they never called me again. Dileia was hired away from me.

[00:49:47]>> They never called you again. Oh, Dia.

[00:49:50]Dear Dia, what was it?

[00:49:52]>> Yeah. And uh Dia uh I met with her just a short a few days after I saw you in Rome. I had a meeting with Dia and she said a number of big companies and media outlets had asked her to do some type of reporting or podcasting and she was wondering if she could do something like Tucker Carlson or because she had been head of all faith and values for CNN.

[00:50:19]She said but they were like they were always telling her what to say and how to >> Yeah. So she she asked if if we could try something together and we did a zero program yesterday, Father Mr. >> Great.

[00:50:33]>> And and and we call it the eternal view from Rome.

[00:50:38]And so we say that the news is being slanted and distorted by the by the spin misters and we're going to try to step back.

[00:50:47]>> There there's no question of that and good for you. Good for you for taking it on. Good. And uh then someone else asked uh where I was here, John Kennedy. I I don't know who John Kennedy is, but there's a a man on senior in Rome named John Kennedy. And then of course our our late President John Kennedy.

[00:51:10]>> I doubt very much that it was our late president who contacted you.

[00:51:15]uh he asked where I was educated and you know I have to say I was truly educated outside of institutions by by my reading in particular for about an entire year I read through the pre-nine and postnine church fathers in those big set of books the Erdman's books which uh uh were the dedicay the uh the writings of Justin Martyr uh Irenaeus against all heresies and I tried to take on the mind of those church fathers and up through all of the tremendous writing of the of the 300s and 400s with Augustine Ambrose a John Chrysum uh >> marvelous >> uh Gregory the theologian which was Gregory Nazanzus uh Gregory of Nissa and his brother Basil of Chesaria.

[00:52:16]All these men and others were so filled with a Christian worldview with the Holy Spirit with the theology and mind of the apostles that I felt every time I had a little chair in the library but I was at Harvard College and I skipped all my classes.

[00:52:36]I skipped everything and I read six, eight, 10 hours a day and I I I took notes and I said, "These people have encountered Christ and they have encountered his community and they they they sense his presence. They experience his presence in the Eucharist and in their community and they're being persecuted by the Roman Empire."

[00:53:00]So >> I did I did I did take classes at Harvard and then I got a PhD from Yale University where I was uh the only student one year of Yaruslav Pelican who was a brilliant and Christian man. His father was a Lutheran. He was Lutheran but as he got older he became Orthodox.

[00:53:23]And uh he told me that he was engaged in dialogue with Cardinal Ratzinger and he said you know I was about 25 he said you have to go to Rome learn Italian and uh try to contribute to the uh strength of the Christian worldview the Christian gospel in the modern secular world because if we don't communicate and defend both Catholics but also Orthodox and Protestants the secular humanist will pick us off and defeat us.

[00:53:58]>> So he sent me on a mission to Rome.

[00:54:00]>> He was certain he was certainly right on that, wasn't he?

[00:54:03]>> Well, I went to Rome and I started learning Italian, but it was 1984, which is uh 42 years ago. And uh the first summer I was there, I met Joseph Ratzinger and by chance I had his book in my briefcase and he was walking across St. Peter's Square on a morning in September. It was September. He was going from his apartment over by the Staint Anne Gate coming through the square to the Holy Office and I was living over near the other side of the Vatican and coming across and I said, "Are you Joseph Ratzinger?" And he said, "Yes, I am." And I said, 'Well, I'm studying here and I've got your book in my briefcase. And I showed it, the theology of history in St. Bonaventure.

[00:54:56]It was essentially how Bonaventure had interpreted the unfolding of history and its meaning in the 1200s after 1,200 years of Christianity and the meaning of those centuries, how how they were meaningful. and he said, "Oh, you're the only one in Rome who's read that book of mine."

[00:55:20]And he said, "Come." He said, "Come and tell me how your research goes every so often." So, I started within weeks of arriving in Rome with the man who was head of the doctrine of the church whose book I had been reading. I can only interpret that as somehow not my own my own planning, my own design. It was a larger design. What do you think, father?

[00:55:49]>> I think there's a larger a larger design in in most things that happen to us, don't you?

[00:55:54]>> Yes. The grace of God is the grace of God is behind many many many things that happen to us. I mean a special grace God sends to a different events that sometimes events that change our lives.

[00:56:09]>> Can you talk Can you talk about >> Can I speak louder?

[00:56:15]>> No. Can you talk about one of those moments in your life?

[00:56:19]>> Oh, I've had many of those moments. I'm not going to bore you with them. You have had many moments. Most of us have had many moments. I think most people who are listening to this show who are married uh could say one of those moments was meeting their their husband or their wife. Uh one of those moments was having their children. Uh one of those moments was a promotion in in in in a job that took you to a new location. All of these things, they're not just accidents. I don't I I I don't believe in that accident.

[00:56:51]I we say coincidences. I don't believe in coincidences. I really believe that if you stop and look, you'll see the hand of God in most things really. Even even in things that seem off, even the things that seem not right, there's something there that God is trying to say and trying to do. Uh so, no, I think I think that that that was a special moment for you. Uh a moment that in in one way really changed the direction of your life.

[00:57:26]quite seriously. It's beautiful.

[00:57:29]>> Very. Yes. And so I do feel that each of us, you know, is like Tesio who was in a little booklet that I saw.

[00:57:38]If someone wants to know how I was educated, my mother placed many books about Catholic saints and the history of the church in my hands. And I think I was reading perhaps even at four years old. But certainly I think at five years old I was reading. Um and both my mother and father got PhDs and uh they always said that learning was precious because it uh it go it went beyond the passions beyond the guessing beyond um emotion. It brought us toward reason and reason was bringing us toward the logos, the the ultimate the >> Yes. Yes. Marvelous. That's exactly it, Robert. You're you're you're hitting everything the way it should be. That's exactly right.

[00:58:34]>> So, I I I I shook the Pope Leo's hand last summer and yet I haven't had a personal meeting with him. he's meeting with other people often and he told me that he had been reading my letters for 15 years but um perhaps there were things in my letters he didn't say I thought he was speaking in a way I think he he said yes thank you for the work you've done but maybe he felt that I'd been emphasizing too much certain more conservative or traditional ideas but in a way all the more reason I feel since I'm also an American and uh somehow breathe the same air as he's breathed uh uh culturally.

[00:59:20]Uh I would love to look look since since I've known you since I've known you and everything that that uh that you've written and that I've read uh show that you're you're a devout Catholic looking for answers. Yeah, I don't see a a an arch conservative, an arch liberal, an arch anything. I see a man looking for answers and and that's I think that's one of the reasons that that the inside the mag the inside the Vatican magazine is is popular. It certainly was popular by me. I found reason in it. I found reason in it. This is a marvelous thing and it's it's a rarity today. It's a rarity. That's uh that's why that's why the that's why the magazine is important. Again, it sounds like we're we're we're we're trying to sell magazines today. That's not the idea.

[01:00:12]The idea is that we're trying to sell reason all the time. Reason and faith.

[01:00:17]And on that note, Robert, I have to go because I have another program.

[01:00:21]>> Okay. Thank you, Father. And blessings to you and everything. And and people are saying you're looking well and we'll see you next week.

[01:00:31]I feel well. Thank you very much for your prayers. I mean that most sincerely. Thank you.

[01:00:39]>> Come with us on a unique pilgrimage and retreat to renew your spirit. Experience the beauty and richness of southern Spain. Our retreat master, Father Charles T. Mr. a renowned Catholic priest, best-selling author, philosopher, theologian, trained psychologist, and pastor of souls.

[01:00:57]Father Mr. will guide us through three mornings of spiritual reflections at a convent located in the historic heart of Carmona, Spain, promising a transformative journey. Experience an intimate evening with Father Mr. at his home. Wine, dinner, music, and conversation, a highlight of this unique experience. Explore picturesque towns of Analysia, each with its own history and charm. From the ancient streets of Carmona to the majestic beauty of Cordova, the breathtaking views of Rhonda, the remarkable village of Centineal, and the historic wonders of Seville. Our pilgrimage will be filled with all inspiring moments. Join us on this profound spiritual journey and rediscover the joy of faith, fellowship, and renewal. Book your place now and embark on a pilgrimage and retreat unlike any other.