Redistributing refugees isn't working | Housing, taxes, jobs: The real cost of unplanned migration

Añadido: 2026-05-31

[00:00:00]Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you to our witnesses uh for appearing before us today. Um I'm going to start with Miss Kovon, my fellow Saskatoonian. Um you spoke about you spoke about uh you know, this study is about redistributing asylum claimants uh across the country versus dealing with the the root of the problem. Could you speak a bit more about that and and what is the root of the problem and and how should that get fixed?

[00:00:26]>> Uh yes, thank you for the question through you, Mr. Chair. Um, I think the root of the problem is, you know, I don't think we we're measly measuring uh where these people already are, what their needs are. Um, I I get the sense that just simply redirecting people, redistributing people without taking into consideration, you know, let's do an overlay of uh of a municipality, for example, Saskatoon's capacity. Um, what is your shelter capacity? How many people do you have there? How many people are you serving currently? How many refugees are there?

[00:01:03]Like we just when we don't measure, we can't manage and what we don't measure becomes invisible and they just fall off the system. So I think that coordination that we heard earlier a little bit and that measurement piece really needs to be a coordinated effort between es especially the municipalities because they're the ones that are taking the brunt of it.

[00:01:23]>> So you represent businesses. Um, if there was an influx of of asylum seekers into Saskatoon, what sort of impacts would that have on the people that on the businesses that you represent?

[00:01:32]>> Well, you know, Mr. Redop, as you know, are are Saskatoon West is probably one of the a bit lower of a socio uh demographic area of the city as you know. Um, you know, we have many many immigrants and a lot of them are business owners came through on the Saskatchewan immigrant nomination uh nomination program and the entrepreneurial stream. um you know, they're looking for workers. They're they're looking to find stable housing for the people who are who are who they need. And so we can't we have less than 2% vacancy rate in Saskatoon. And so I wouldn't want to see that sacrificed. Um these people are taxpayers. They're they're business owners. Some of them are homeowners, but their employees need to be need to be housed. They need to have doctors. They need to have schools.

[00:02:18]So let's let's allow them to have um you know the the means and access to that without overburdening a system that's already overburdened.

[00:02:29]>> Um for Saskatoon services that you know you talk about housing and there's other services like healthcare and things like that. Um is there a difference between orderly migration and uh you know bringing in a whole lot of asylum seekers in a short period of time?

[00:02:44]>> Yeah, definitely. I think um you know if we if we look back and I don't have the numbers in front of me but I think if we look back um as to how the immigrant nominee program the SNP program in Saskatchewan has been extremely successful you know where we had targets and we and so so we actually would allow people to come in uh based on those targets and and we sort of knew that was going to happen and we could project um whether it was healthcare or whether it was uh education or whether it was housing. Um the other thing I think that um is important about that is the uh a a labor market um growth right so we can also project who's who's coming in who's opening businesses how many employees do they need and you know Saskatchewan has one of the lowest employment rates of any province across the country so it's really hard to find workers so that needs to be orderly managed effect efficient and effective >> uh you talked about process processing claims faster than redistributing of people around the country. Um, you feel that's a better solution?

[00:03:50]>> I think it gives certainty. Again, downloading is not compassionate. Um, I definitely think the faster we can process claims, the more certainty it gives to the individual so they understand their future. They know what they're going to be uh doing in, you know, 3 6 9 12 months, whatever. And I think we owe it to those people to to ensure that they have that certainty.

[00:04:14]Who wants to live like that? That's not very fair, nor is it compassionate.

[00:04:18]>> So you you would agree that if if um if we have an asylum claimant who's failed, uh we need to process them and and uh if if they need to leave the country, they should leave the country rather than move them from wherever they are to a place like Saskatoon.

[00:04:32]>> Oh, definitely. Uh enforcement is what's the point? What's the point of having the rule if we're not going to enforce it? um you know and if the decision has been made for a reason to deny that claim then yes they that individual or or whoever we're speaking of for whatever reason they need to be returned. I think the due process is very important but I also think that following the decision of that due process is equally as important. So again, in the scenario where we would were to bring more asylum seekers to Saskatoon, what are the different pressures? Like you talk about housing, are there other things, homelessness, health, like what are the what are the pressures that would would come to bear that that would bear on the city?

[00:05:14]>> Well certainly um you know we can look at cultural supports um depending on where the asylum seeker is country of origin. Um, we're not Toronto, we're not Montreal, we're not Vancouver. You know, we we do have a diverse culture there, but maybe not diverse enough. So, cultural supports, language supports, um, public other public services, transportation. Saskatoon is a car city, right? You you know this, we need you need to have a vehicle. Can they get that? Can they figure out how to get around? Um, so yeah, housing is just the tip of the iceberg, but uh, legal supports would be another one. labor market, cultural, legal supports, language.

[00:06:01]>> Thank you.

[00:06:02]>> Thank you. Thank you. Uh >> thank you, Madam Chair. Uh my questions are for first for Dr. Lisa Kaida. Um so your research has studied the short-term and long-term economic uh integration of refugees in Canada. And your work has compared privately sponsored refugees versus government assisted refugees. Is that correct? Yeah. So can you tell me a little bit more about how the privately sponsored refugee program works?

[00:06:29]>> So privately sponsored refugees uh are given permanent resident status upon arrival in Canada and they are uh still uh approved as refugees by international organizations like United UNHCR or other uh international organizations. So the as as well as um it could be private responsive refugees could be uh family members or relatives of private or refugees who are already in Canada as well and then uh they are uh they arrive in Canada and then they are uh sponsored taken care of by the sponsors who could be either group of individuals or uh ethnic or ethnic organizations cultural organiz organizations for up to 12 12 months.

[00:07:22]>> So, and has your research found that privately sponsored refugees showed stronger employment and earnings outcomes and economic contribution to Canada than government assistant refugees?

[00:07:32]>> Yes, that is correct.

[00:07:33]>> Right. So, when you see here liberal politicians and political advocacy groups speak broadly about quote refugees succeeding, do you think they may be conflating the two uh different uh groups and two different outcomes? uh across these uh programs.

[00:07:53]>> I I don't think so because um even though the the the >> the purpose >> the private but the private sponsored refugees do have higher short-term and long-term according to your research economic contribution that lasts for well over a decade than the government uh assistant refugee stream. Is that correct?

[00:08:16]>> That is correct.

[00:08:17]>> Right. And there is reason for that. Uh private government assisted refugees uh are um more likely to be vulnerable from the point of a family uh family structure. Uh and that has something to do with the introduction of her in early 2000 to that the government is emphasizing the bring the acceptance of vulnerable. Does it have anything to do with things like initial selection factors like language ability, education, age or um labor market conditions at all?

[00:08:56]for the refugee uh the the for the period where we studied the refugees who arrived in 2000 to 2014 those social demographic characteristics are like not and human capital characteristics were not taken into account. Uh that is my understanding unlike the economic economic immigration program. So in your view are asylum seekers more like uh government assisted refugees or are they more like private refugees privately sponsored refugees?

[00:09:30]>> I would say it is asylum seekers. Um their characteristics are are unknown in the sense that uh unlike economic immigration polic program and the resettled refugee program asylum seekers are not vetted by the government. So then some of asylum seekers can be very highly educated. Other aim seekers uh may be uh maybe not fluent in English or French at all. It is unknown factor.

[00:10:03]>> Would you agree that integration of refugees is not something that just happens automatically? Like it requires housing, uh language training, uh employment supports, health care, schools, transportation, all all things that put pressures on local communities.

[00:10:21]for for the refugees.

[00:10:23]>> Yeah.

[00:10:24]>> Yes. Um for that government assisted refugees and private sponsored refugees, their social economic profiles are indeed uh weaker less uh less strong than economic refugees who are dominated into Canada based on their education, language, language skills as well as their uh pre-arranged employment. So it is it is not surprising that the refugees economic outcomes are less favorable than economic immigrants.

[00:10:59]>> Thank you.

[00:11:00]>> Uh thank you. Uh >> uh thank you madam chair and thank you uh to our witnesses for being here with us today. I'm going to have some questions for you Miss Kusen if I may.

[00:11:10]Uh has the government ever reached out to your organization to discuss immigration concerns and how it would impact the businesses and your membership?

[00:11:18]Uh thank you through you, Madam Chair.

[00:11:20]No, they have not.

[00:11:21]>> They have not. Would you say that the uh rapid unplanned increase in uh asylum claimants and all immigrants has put a strain on local business and services that your association members simply weren't prepared for?

[00:11:35]>> Uh I would say that immigration has definitely put a strain on many of the local services and local infrastructure that we need to support them. Uh I think most significantly would be housing.

[00:11:47]housing. Uh we heard that from a city councelor that from a Saskatoon city councelor that testified in the in the first segment of today's uh uh meeting.

[00:11:57]Um he also uh uh indicated that uh it would uh there's some strain on uh having to increase taxes in order to deal with some of the the immigration issues that the municipality has had to deal with. What are you hearing from your members regarding escalating taxes at all levels of government?

[00:12:15]Well, taxes are never a good thing. And you know, it's interesting, too. We we had some conversation earlier and we heard earlier that um provinces, municipalities, and the federal governments need to work together. But, you know, there's only one taxpayer. So, regardless of where the money comes from, it's coming out of our business owners pockets and and our residents pockets, and we need to be mindful of that.

[00:12:36]>> Well, as a as a business person, uh immigration, you know, is is an economic driver. I'm sure you would agree with that. Uh but right now there's federal backlogs and this uh and it and it really feels like the IRCC, the immigration uh refugees and um citizenship Canada's capacity in dealing with these open door policies that the Liberal government has had uh has sort of taken a a priority over over economic immigration.

[00:13:06]uh focusing on dealing with backlogs instead of focusing in economic immigration which I would imagine would be uh supplying uh uh a resource very valuable to your to your uh membership.

[00:13:19]Could you comment on that?

[00:13:20]>> Yes, thank you. Uh again, Madam Chair, uh again in Saskatchewan with the Saskatchewan immigrant nomination program, uh the SinP program, we saw great success in um managed, efficient and effective immigration levels. We were bringing in uh entrepreneurs and that was a complement to the federal system at the time. I want to say that was probably around between like 2012 2018 some somewhere in there. and when the when the when the federal uh limits increased and Saskatchewan wasn't quite prepared for it. Um but in essentially what they did though was the federal limits increase but they put a cap on that program. So what we saw was immigrants coming in but not in a managed and orderly way. And I think that um the longer we have backlog, the longer that we have bottlenecks in the system, uh we're we're we're going to see challenges in our community and those pressures uh on the services that are required from from immigrants that aren't processed thoroughly. So yes, I think that uh the federal government created has created exacerbated and um increased our problems in Saskatoon specifically.

[00:14:34]public confidence in Canada's immigration system among your your members and I guess the broader community in the Sask in the city of Saskatoon. Has you wrote it because of how the government has handled Simon claims and the immigration system in a in a bigger way?

[00:14:48]>> Well, again, our community and the members I represent is are there's, you know, a a a good portion of immigrant business owners and immigrant um businesses in in Saskatoon West. Um, you know, I I think I I think they're probably grateful for where they have landed, but I know that there's people that they're waiting for that maybe aren't so fortunate and don't have answers yet.

[00:15:14]Um, I think that, you know, we rely on a healthy, wholesome, and robust immigration system, but certainty is what is needed for these people so that they can be assured that what we're going to who they're who they're going to sponsor to come over or who they're going to hire.

[00:15:34]And I'm not talking about necessarily just the immigration just the immigrant business owners. I'm also talking about the service organizations that require labor market uh opinions and labor market you know uh programs that bring uh workers over and not temporary workers but permanent. So I just think certainty uh and efficiency equals effectiveness and then we have a smart program but that's not happening right now.

[00:16:01]>> Thank you very much. Thank you.