Do Schoolboy Steroid Gains Last Into Professional Rugby? | Mailbag

Added: 2026-05-31

[00:00:00]Guys can get injured slipping on the side of the pool. Scott Barrett's now injured for 3 to five months and he hasn't done anything.

[00:00:05]>> The All Blacks is the pinnacle of my rugby season every year. And so, of course, I'm sitting here waiting for the All Blacks, but that doesn't mean that I'm I'm not looking at Super Rugby because guess where they get the players from.

[00:00:15]>> If you take all the best players from one league and you take all the best players from the other one and you put them in teams and you play them against, oh wait, we're doing that. It's called test match rugby.

[00:00:24]>> Welcome to the DSPN. John Walker wins the 1500 me gold medal at the Olympic Games.

[00:00:29]>> The Olympics have won by 29 points tonight.

[00:00:33]>> The Develin Sports Podcast Network.

[00:00:38]>> Mailbag time, ladies and gentlemen, and thank you so much for all of the feedback that you give us. We read it all. We don't agree with it all, but I certainly love the fact that you take the time. Here we go, Jamie.

[00:00:51]And we'll go right back to Brendan Nell last week. Uh and Brennan talking about the steroid use in South Africa, the story all around that pressure 79. Why is this issue being downplayed in South Africa? If school boys are filtering through into other teams, does this culture of using just disappear? Uh it's a question that a lot of people have asked and it dovetales into the book of Leviticus this week from Hanley 2011 who says, "Hi Martin, hope you and Jamie are well. I'm a medical professional." He goes on to explain anabolic steroids, what they do to your body, whether there's any res residual effect and the doctors that are arguing about that. He goes on to a couple other things I want to mention as well. Um, which is his belief that the the top sides of Super Rugby URC French team would all actually be competitive. But just in terms of the the drug thing, because we got a lot of comments about this about, hey, you know, you can't downplay if school kids are taking it. Does that mean if they if you beef up at the age of 16 that you still retain that at the age of 22 23 going into a senior site?

[00:01:50]>> Yeah. Yeah. Really good stuff. And thank you so much uh for that comment because obviously we're not doctors. Uh we we we don't know what we're talking about in this but it sounds very much sounds like you do. Uh what I got out of that is that like it's kind of what I thought would happen is that because it's you're dealing with illicit drug use because that's what it is. There are no proper clinical long-term studies on this. So, it's actually kind of unknown, but the general consensus uh among medical professionals is it actually doesn't. As soon as you stop taking steroids, it just it's like defilating a balloon. You it just goes away. And that in order to get those gains that you had before to match those, you need to start taking steroids. Like steroids only work uh if you keep taking them. So, I think that u in terms of what it does to a growing body um because again they haven't tested this on on humans because how how can they uh we're pro we're likely never going to know. Um so yeah, it's it's kind of unless unless they can sort of test after the fact like sort of well into someone's 20s and just say like okay well the the bloody residual effects of this we can actually measure that by now. They're not going to know. So, it's kind of it's a difficult one um for both doctors and for for us to to really judge.

[00:03:06]>> I look at the Baseballers, okay? And the Baseballers are just notorious for taking drugs. And you look at the Sammy Sosa, Mark Magcguire home run race chase of 1998. And you look at the pictures of Meuire now and he looks deformed. His balloon biceps and all of this kind of stuff. And you look at his body shape now in real life, what's happened, he hasn't retained that. Uh you look at other athletes that have also tested positive for those kind of anabolic steroid things. Same thing. their big kind of Popeye body has shrunk quite a lot. I don't know whether that's relevant at all, but um look, as you're right, we don't know and and and and this is a great message from Handley because you're a doctor and and what you're explaining sounds absolutely legit, but at the same time, you're you're good enough to admit as well that you don't know. Yeah.

[00:03:52]>> And as Jamie says, there no studies. I like what he says though about I do believe the top eight of Super Rugby URC would have epic battles against each other. uh French top 14, top eight, USC top eight also would have epic matches.

[00:04:02]And this goes back to the Telegraph article saying, you know, we need to combine all of this and get all these teams playing. The only reason I put this in, mate, is that it just it's it it still wrankles that we can't get a global calendar and we can't find this stuff out. and world rugby creating a club competition is just not the answer here because trying to fit it in the calendar and I don't want to ever get into a situation like the World League club championship where one team's coming out of a season, one team starting a season and it's not it's not equitable >> unless these teams are playing each other as the pinnacle of what they're doing, then it's never really going to work. And so it would basically involve combining Super Rugby and the top 14 into one competition. and that's the only way you're ever going to know because then their motivations going into the game are equal and even then it's going to be difficult because you know they're on the other side of the world. There has been a really good debate um this week uh because of course we saw uh Bordau Begler winning the Champions Cup beating Lster last week and a really good debate about how they'd go against the Hurricanes top team in Super Rugby right now.

[00:05:08]>> And it's a good one. It's it's it's a nice one to have, but it is completely hypothetical uh at the moment. The closest we're going to get to that is if you take all the best players from one league and you take all the best players from the other one and you put them in teams and you play them against. Oh wait, we're doing that. It's called test match rugby.

[00:05:26]>> Mike Morgan and this is talking about the team to go to South Africa and the midweek side. And last week we selected the what we thought is the first team to play the URC side, the Stormers on that tour. He says the midweek team should be to see if a new player is good enough, not if a player is still good enough.

[00:05:43]Great point, Mike.

[00:05:44]>> Isn't that such a great comment when you understand what he's saying?

[00:05:47]>> That used to be what these midweek sides were for. Are you good enough to be an All Black? Let's test you out.

[00:05:53]>> And we've got another comment coming a little bit later about somebody's selected a backline of All Blacks that a lot of us think are past their best and and what that would look as opposed to putting a team of youngies in there. I just thought it's a really good interesting comment and a great way of looking at it.

[00:06:08]>> Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. And you're absolutely right because it goes back to what we talked about in terms of like what these games are going to use for that be used for is that how much of his test team is Dave Renie going to be settling like how many guys are inked in how many guys are going to be playing for spots in those last >> uh three games and then how many of those guys are probably just not even in that conversation at all and are there to >> fill the midweek team.

[00:06:33]>> Yeah.

[00:06:33]>> Um and this one here I love as well uh as we go into round 16 of Super Rugby.

[00:06:38]Um Steven4722 Crusaders Chiefs was well worth watching the comment straight underneath it. Waldo Super Rugy's horseshit. Sorry. So there there you go.

[00:06:47]The the absolute contrast. Um I don't know um whether or not you s you you actually watched that game last week.

[00:06:54]But whatever sport you're into, you can't watch the that Crusaders Chiefs game from last Friday night and not say that that was a fantastic game of sport in every aspect of it. So that's just that to me says everything. It is fantastic. It's shite. It's shite. It's fantastic.

[00:07:10]>> Well, I hope they don't run into each other at the pub after a few >> um Huracan Finn says, "Man, I'm getting FOMO from not being at the new Teaha Stadium. It looks awesome on TV. I'm likely going to go to Super Round next season. All Blacks at Taha is going to be epic." Um, thank you so much for that. Look, and TJ was there for the first time. He said the same thing. We don't need to repeat what we've already said about it, but you're getting FOMO for a good reason.

[00:07:33]>> I'm really I'm so looking forward to getting down there for this test match uh in July. I just everything I've heard and you I feel like I'm the only bloody person in this in the world that in this building anyway that hasn't been there yet.

[00:07:42]>> Yeah. Um RTO says things are really heating up coming towards the final footy things looking really exciting. I agree and we've got you know we did a preview yesterday. We've got this game on tonight. Caracans Chiefs and again I just want to put that in because you know in the changing sheds episode we talked about I'm just sick of the argument about boot and rugby at the moment. I I understand it and we've made a lot of mileage out of it ourselves but ultimately why why are you watching? I'm watching cuz I'm enjoying it.

[00:08:07]>> I'm I'm not sitting there every weekend next to her going, "It's all right. I just got to watch this game." If I don't want to watch it, I'm not watching it.

[00:08:15]I'm not engaged in it. Okay.

[00:08:16]>> Yeah. I I agree. And we're we're at the business. I I will admit that sometimes Super Rugby just does lag a little bit in the middle when you have a couple of rounds of matches against teams that you're not really that emotionally connected to.

[00:08:31]>> I feel like every sport's like that, right? But I mean, how many games they play in the Premier League season, right?

[00:08:36]>> 38.

[00:08:36]>> 38. And a lot of them are going to be against teams that you don't >> Well, if you're a fan of the teams, I mean, you're an idiot like me. You get up and you watch these games, but my god, I've watched some shite this year.

[00:08:45]I really have. And >> well, I mean, I feel >> 50 years I've watched I've watched I've watched a lot of shite football, believe me.

[00:08:49]>> I feel like the NRL's a good example as well. I mean, that goes for 28 weeks.

[00:08:54]>> Yeah, there games in every league. So, yeah. Um, Dash Jameson, let's go back to the first comment that I was talking about. They referring. Imagine this backline rocking out in South Africa.

[00:09:02]Bowden Barrett, Harvey, Antonet Brown, uh, Ree Rico, DMac at 15. These are names certain media are mentioning, the old versus the experience and so forth.

[00:09:11]Um, we'll take Damian Mackenzie out of there, I think. But this is that point about would you, you know, if you're going into those URC games, do you select those names who we already know everything about those players? Now, maybe one of these two of these players need some game time before a test match.

[00:09:27]I get that. But do you select a backline that like that or do you actually throw in the names that could be All Blacks in the future? That this is the balance that Dave Renie's got to try and figure out here, doesn't he? Because the All Blacks don't want to lose these matches.

[00:09:41]>> Well, let's look at this one or two O's, which is do you want to get through this tour unscathed midweek, which I think is probably the first kind of priority. I mean, obviously the priority is to win the test series. The second priority would be to make sure you don't lose any midweek games or are you looking at this with an eye on the World Cup next year?

[00:10:03]>> You have to Jamie.

[00:10:04]>> And you got to >> and I think it's about striking a balance between both. So I think that the back line's name there is like well I mean I wouldn't be mad if that ran out against the Stormers or the Bulls or the Sharks because really I think the high priority is to sort of make sure you're winning those games. Would you be though mad if it ran out every URC game like that?

[00:10:26]>> Uh yeah, I would be because I think that would be a massive opportunity lost.

[00:10:29]>> There you go.

[00:10:29]>> And I think I would like to see the squad first and see what sort of mix Dave Renie is going for and whether you can actually tell whether he's got a big eye on the future uh for u for what this tour is going to represent.

[00:10:44]>> All right team, listen up. Financial markets go up and down, but your money doesn't have to follow the same ride.

[00:10:49]That's where General Finance Limited comes in. A trusted New Zealand institution established in 1997 and owned by General Capital, a publicly listed company with over 1,600 shareholders. General Finance offers secured term deposits supervised by the Reserve Bank of New Zealand and included in the depositor compensation scheme up to $100,000 per depositor with flexible terms from 3 to 60 months and competitive interest rates often above the major banks. It's a smarter, more secure way to grow your money. General Finance Limited stability you can rely on. TC's fee supply past performance is not an indicator of future performance.

[00:11:23]Product disclosure statement available at general finance.co.nz.

[00:11:27]Marilyn Hman. Um there's a couple of aspects of this. So this is the South Africa as well as the last Super Rugby round. Marilyn says, "Play your top side every week. Winning becomes habitual. If you're worried about injuries, maybe select and coaching isn't for you." It's only my opinion. I'm no means an authority. You're in authority because you have commented, Marilyn, and I thank you for that. Um, and Kadi Halazi. Oh, I hope it isn't one of those names where I end up saying, you know, IP Daily or something. I I did that at the start, Jamie. Somebody had written in it's a souk Madik.

[00:11:56]And old Dumbo here reads it out like, you know, like I just thinking I was being respectful to my brethren and and it's like and Lton's going, "You know what he's saying, don't you?" And I'm going, "No, say it out loud."

[00:12:06]>> You know what? You know what you've just done here? You've just challenged everybody out there to try and do it again.

[00:12:10]>> Yeah. Okay. Um it'd be more ridiculous if you put your A team um one week out and this is about the super rugby angle on this uh one week before the playoffs when you got nothing to fight for. Then you get Royard, Durn, Fee, Proctor, Lai, Omua and co injured out missing the whole playoffs and so forth. Okay, so I think the two topics can be combined here and we see that Hurac side running out tonight and they've made a lot of changes. It's virtually a new backline.

[00:12:32]You've got Morby still in there. You've got Cam coming back. It's a new loose Ford trio. Obviously when you say you've got a new front row, but the new front row includes Tyrell. I mean, hello. Um, but again, this is the balance. And then you look at the Chiefs lineup as well, and I think John O Gibbs has made a statement with that. It's a it's however your coaching brain works. I can't I just can't see I agree with you. You can't protect players because players get injured in training. So, you can't protect players by saying, "Oh, we're not going to play you in this game because we want you right for that game." So, it is a delicate balance, isn't it? Getting Cam Royard back is I a really interesting one for me because this guy doesn't need to play this game, but then he does need to play this game as far as the coaches are concerned because they want him match fit for the next game.

[00:13:17]>> I think what you've got with the Hurricanes and Crusader, Hurricanes and Chiefs is one team that's done one thing, one team that's done the other, which is that the Chiefs have loaded up uh their team probably about as as strong as they possibly can. Whereas the Hurricanes have done mostly rotation but also bought Cam Royard and Tyrell Lomax back because they feel as though they need the game time. And you're right this I mean guys can get injured slipping on the side of the pool at home. You know there's there's there's a a million ways that thing seasons can come come apart. I mean Scott Barrett's now injured for three to five months and he hasn't done anything.

[00:13:53]>> Haven't played.

[00:13:54]>> Hasn't played. So, you know, there's there's I I I feel like I kind of trust both coaches in the way that they've picked these teams in terms of what they feel they need at this stage of the season. I think that the Hurricanes probably a few weeks ago would have been able to project that they'd be in this position and probably been able to prep the team and just say, "Hey, look, you know, this is the way it's going to work." So, everyone who has been selected, it probably shouldn't be that much of a surprise and everyone who hasn't probably wouldn't be surprised either. Whereas the Chiefs have probably been kept on edge this whole time and being like look it's it's all to play for in the last round as we head into the playoffs and we want to keep this momentum going because they probably feel I mean obviously they're below the Hurricanes they need to make that step up and Manika says and this is in terms of the All Blacks easy put Leester and Timote on the bench um cover for 71 12 13 11 and 14.

[00:14:54]>> It's tempting, isn't it?

[00:14:55]>> I I like I like the thinking behind this and it was only when you actually put all the numbers is attached to it as well. Obviously, he's talking about Lester Fangul and Tavatavanawide and the ability to cover 71 12 13 11 and 14. So, you can cover both wingers, a center position, a number 12 position, and a center position with those two players. Yeah, it's tempting, isn't it?

[00:15:16]>> So, is that a 62 split or is it a five and a half, two and a half, three, two and a half? you know, like what's how how do you how do you make that? And and also or is it a six 61 is it 5-3?

[00:15:30]It's it's it's kind >> six and a half one and a half almost >> because if you count Tatavana as an extra forward back, you know, it's it's just a whole new way of look well not entirely new but you would have thought that you know the idea of a hyper player is he's one guy utility and the idea of a utility goes back a long way. You know, a guy can cover multiple positions in the backline usually is or a locker who can play flanker as well. But to have people that can play in the forwards and the backs, but also two of them.

[00:15:59]>> Yeah, two of them.

[00:16:01]>> That's exciting.

[00:16:02]>> This has got to happen, I think, on the South African turret. I hope so.

[00:16:06]>> Oh, yeah. I think this is the testing ground. Um, final bat. Zachary Robinson.

[00:16:10]The average rugby fan is sitting dormant waiting for the All Blacks test. This is when we turn up in the stadium. We don't have the population support. Five super teams filling up a stadium every week from a commercial lens. We've got too many rugby products in the market's too small to support it.

[00:16:23]>> Um, look, no, I look I I I acknowledge the first, but that to me isn't something new. Every rugby season, as an All Black fan, I'm waiting for the All Blacks.

[00:16:34]>> You know, it's not like that Super Rugby doesn't mean anything to me, but the All Blacks is the pinnacle of my rugby season every year. And so, of course, I'm sitting here waiting for the All Blacks, but that doesn't mean that I'm I'm not looking at Super Rugby because guess where they get the players from.

[00:16:47]They get them from Super Rugby. And so, if you're waiting for the All Blacks season and you're like this and you don't want to watch any Super Rugby, how the hell do you know who's going to be in our team? And you and you're missing all the fun of the discussions going, "Well, that guy's playing really well and that guy's playing really well and this combination's playing really well."

[00:17:00]And if you're really in love with the All Blacks, well, don't you want to watch Ruben Love every week to see how good that guy is? So, I acknowledge it.

[00:17:07]And I think that if you asked a lot of people, they probably say, "Yeah, I don't care about it. I don't care." I think you do. I think as soon as you mention this, you actually do care a little bit.

[00:17:15]>> I I don't I mean that's a subjective question is like how much you care about the All Blacks compared to other teams.

[00:17:23]And I think that that's something as old as time is that the casual rugby New Zealand will get interested once the All start playing. That's not unusual. I don't think that's really much different to a lot of other national teams. That's why they're national teams. you know, you get interested when they start representing the country. I don't get on board at all with the fact that there's not enough of a market to support the amount of teams that we've got. That is just not true. Like there's, if you go back to the start of Super Rugby, I mean, these teams were all filling up uh stadiums, I think the question now is how do you engage in that market more?

[00:17:56]It's not like there's not enough people in Oakuckland to fill up Eden Park every week. There is. You know, this is a big city. There's it's not like there's not enough people in Christ Church to I mean Christ Church is doing it.

[00:18:08]>> They are filling up that stadium uh every week. Yeah.

[00:18:11]>> Uh so I Yeah, I don't agree. I don't advocate at all like reducing the amount of teams of the amount of people that are getting paid to play rugby uh in this country. I think that's that's a washed argument.

[00:18:23]>> Well, the Highlanders um messaged out something yesterday. I think it was on Instagram. I saw it something 86,000 people had gone to their stadium this year to watch the Highlanders play home games, right? and divided by seven was about 12,000 or almost 13,000 a game or something like that it was it worked out as and I thought okay I presume they played seven games at home I I haven't check I just presume everyone plays seven at home seven away um in a city of 100,000 people where you don't have 30,000 of those arriving until certain bits and then they go away because of the students the population fluctuating and things um if you get that and then you multiply it by the rest of the teams that are playing I'm not making an excuse here I'm just saying that you've got to put a big holistic picture on this that's not And look, if and if the if orchid AFC got 13,000 average every week, they probably didn't this year, but if they did, they'd be happy. If the Phoenix took 13,000 a week, they'd be delighted.

[00:19:12]The Warriors get more than that for their home games. I I absolutely understand that, but I don't think that's that's bad numbers in these economic times that that every every home game that amount of people, they can make enough noise and they're paying for tickets.

[00:19:24]>> It actually stacks up really well against domestic rugby in the rest of the world. That's about the average crowd size. that's above an average crowd.

[00:19:32]>> People were saluting this in France going, "Wow, 15,000 go to that stadium simply because the stadium is built for that amount of people and so it's full every week. That's the that's the difference that we have here is that we only have big stadiums." Uh, and again, you know, that well done to the Islanders for getting that whatever they're doing down there is working because this is a team that goes into every season knowing that they're probably going to struggle. They they they haven't had a season going in where they would have been there would have been a lot of hype around them. Like, yeah, they got some exciting players and everything, but I mean, I don't think anyone was thinking they're going to win a title, not even their own fans.

[00:20:03]>> So, for them to be pulling those sort of numbers, they've got a great facility down there and they're making the most of it. So, well done to them.

[00:20:10]>> Mari Matangi says, "I hear all the time that Super Rugby Pacific's no good and we all miss the South Africans." Uh, from 1996 to 2019, here are the results.

[00:20:18]24 seasons involving New Zealand, South African, and Australian side. New Zealand 17 titles. Um, South Africa one franchise won three, the Bulls. uh three Australian franchises won four titles.

[00:20:29]So out of those 24, 17 won by New Zealand. And look, I understand the whole argument about the South African sides. It provides a great point of difference for us watching uh the big bodies that the players play against that that's important. We've lost that as well. But in terms of the competitiveness of it, you're right. And just the nuts and bolts of the results, it's not like the South African sides were kicking butt every single week and winning these tournaments, weren't they?

[00:20:55]And so there is an argument when you look at it like that losing them is a sucks. I you know and and and I think it does as well. But there's also an argument that says you know really what are we missing here?

[00:21:09]Apart from the fact that we're not getting the difference in competition and that seems to me to be the biggest argument. It's not about oh god the competition's Premier League is not the same because you took out both Manchester clubs, you took out Liverpool, you took out Arsenal and it's not the same anymore. That's not the argument here is it?

[00:21:25]There's a couple of things going on with this one because there's arguments for and arguments against the first one uh against it is that in my opinion anyway uh not having the South African teams in the competition uh given the way that we consume sport these days has made it actually a better competition because it's meant that everything is done within our time zones. You know, this is looking at purely from a New Zealand point of view is that you can now feasibly watch every game over the weekend of a Super Rugby uh Pacific round live. And it's not you're not going to have to stay up until the middle of night. You're going to have not going to have to make up time in the morning to get up and watch a replay. And that was the biggest issue with South African teams being is that it's on the other side of the world.

[00:22:13]It's no one's fault. It's just >> what it is. And what would also happen with New Zealand teams is that they were heavily reliant on media coverage here.

[00:22:22]Uh because of course the media is split up between all of them trying to cover all them and they would go away over to South Africa for a couple of weeks and then to Argentina later on as well and they would disappear out of the news cycle for like almost a month at a time and generally what would happen is they'd have their by-week when they came back as well. So that's a month where they're just gone out of everything. And that was the biggest challenge for them was staying relevant uh within that time because usually you use your home games uh to generate um interest for your next home games uh as well. And so that was the biggest challenge for them. Um in that regard I don't miss the South African teams because it I feel like it's made it a much easier to consume competition at least on TV anyway. On the other hand, uh and this is my experience being in South Africa uh a couple of years ago is that what we realized when we got to Johannesburg for that first test at Ellis Park was >> it was about it was something like a third of the All Blacks had not only not gone to South Africa before, they' never played at altitude uh before. And it was about halfway through the week when I started getting bleeding noses and feeling like someone was inside me just doing this to my guts that I was like, "Oh, wow. This is what altitude sickness feels like."

[00:23:41]>> Okay, I'm looking forward to this.

[00:23:42]>> It was it was really something. And it took a while to get used to it. And I was like, "Well, if this is what's happened to me, what's happened to the All Blacks who've never like been here before? Like, how are they acclimatizing to this?" And if you remember that game, which was when I think it was about 34-28, the the story of that game was the All Blacks were on track for what would have been a very very satisfying victory and they just absolutely ran ran out of gas in that last 15 minutes.

[00:24:09]>> And had those players had that experience in South Africa before, >> that's when you realize like, oh, this is what it was. I don't think it was so much the big bodies and the the you know physical play because I mean you can kind of get that in the in the New Zealand derbies. It was going to South Africa and being that environment and being in a foreign place and experiencing those conditions so you know what's going to happen when you do make the old place and you go back to face the spring box. That's what it's missing.

[00:24:37]>> Finally the sporting Kiwi.

[00:24:39]You win this week. I miss Lachlan.

[00:24:42]That's all I see. I miss I miss Lachland.

[00:24:44]>> Oh we all miss Lachland. I miss Lachlan.

[00:24:46]We all miss Lachlan. We all miss Lachlan. I was giving it to him hard about origin during the week because he's Queensland. But yeah, we miss Lachlan. Um, you know, I worked with Lachlan for four and a half years. Uh, just had a fantastic time working with him. And you have known him during that time too, Jamie. Really well. And and he's working at the breakdown on Sky.

[00:25:03]Um, and I think he's really going to add uh to Skye's rugby coverage just as Nouse just as you know him being around.

[00:25:11]and he's such a fun guy to work with, but he's actually really smart and he's really clever and so I think you're going to see his influence over the next six months um on, you know, the way that Sky covered their rugby, which is why they came and got him because that's what they want. Um but this is really geared towards you. This is this that comment is geared towards you. That that comment for is is they don't has nothing to do with me. you.

[00:25:34]>> Uh well, look, all I'm going to do, all I'm going to say is that uh you know, I got big shoes to fill and uh you know, Lachland's not here anymore, but uh I'm just going to try and add as much as I possibly can. And we've got a big big year coming up and I'm I'm determined to be a part of it. They're going to send me over to South Africa, which is going to be massive. Um maybe L will come with us. I don't know.

[00:25:55]>> Jeez, I tell you what, that was like listening to Rob Penny at the presser, wasn't it?

[00:25:59]>> He didn't want to mention Scott Hansen, did he? Hey, he didn't want to say the words. I deserve to have this job.

[00:26:06]That's a mailbag this week. Thank you so much for all the comments. Keeping them coming, people. Enjoy the rugby over the weekend. We're going to be live on Sunday.

[00:26:13]>> Yeah, >> going to be live at about 11:00 Sunday morning.

[00:26:15]>> Yeah, let's wrap this thing up.

[00:26:17]>> Yeah, we got to uh we got to get all that techn thing. Um Tom, you're not working Monday, are you, pal? It's a public holiday, isn't it, Tom?

[00:26:23]>> He says he forgot.

[00:26:25]Well, I guess that means I shouldn't have said that because we could have had a show on Monday. We'll be back on Tuesday though with plenty uh on the podcast. Leave us a message as always.

[00:26:33]We appreciate it very much.

[00:26:35]>> This is the DSPN.