The Problem with #BookTok | Help Help We're Being Repressed!

追加: 2026-05-31

[00:00:00]Definitely seems like a theme through these books is girls either starting and then continuing or learning to completely like let go of self-control.

[00:00:07]Where it's like you have people and it's like, "Oh, we were so repressed."

[00:00:10]>> is a bad thing.

[00:00:11]>> Self-control or like >> being repressed. That's why we're here.

[00:00:14]>> Help. Help.

[00:00:26]Welcome. Welcome.

[00:00:28]To help help we're being repressed where we >> Cuz we're in person because Amira is a college graduate.

[00:00:34]>> Yay.

[00:00:35]>> Yay. You were a college graduate last time, too, but >> Technically.

[00:00:38]>> Technically.

[00:00:39]>> But I was a college graduate in Michigan, which is much less happy.

[00:00:42]>> Yes. Now you are a college graduate in Moscow, Idaho.

[00:00:46]>> Where I should be.

[00:00:47]>> Congrats.

[00:00:48]>> Thank you.

[00:00:49]>> It's good to have you back.

[00:00:51]So, today's topic is a requested one, but like a a long past requested one.

[00:00:57]So, I hope you still >> deep in the comments of YouTube >> still care, whoever you are. And [laughter] we are talking >> at least.

[00:01:04]>> We are talking about BookTok.

[00:01:06]>> Mhm.

[00:01:07]>> So, couple qualifiers first.

[00:01:10]Is one, I understand that we are not going to cross everything in BookTok.

[00:01:16]And things are technically BookTok or Book Bookstagram or whatever that aren't horrible.

[00:01:22]>> Well, yeah, because you might just be a hashtag >> hashtag books.

[00:01:26]>> Because I read a book and then I posted about it.

[00:01:29]>> an all-encompassing situation. We're not saying that if you found one person on Instagram who recommended an amazing book that changed your life, you're unholy.

[00:01:39]>> Actually, no, we are.

[00:01:40]>> [laughter] >> That is what we're saying. That's exactly what we're saying.

[00:01:42]>> I meant from the beginning.

[00:01:45]>> But we are talking about a rather striking core group of BookTok Bookstagram.

[00:01:52]>> And I'm ashamed to say it is a female group.

[00:01:55]>> It is.

[00:01:55]>> Mainly.

[00:01:56]>> We're out here not representing.

[00:01:58]>> with the BookTok man version is very like Pierce Brown, Brandon Sanderson, that sort of thing.

[00:02:04]>> And we have our beef, but it's not like moral.

[00:02:07]>> No, it's just just like you're too into Brandon Sanderson.

[00:02:10]>> [laughter] >> Like that's it. I mean, I couldn't really judge cuz I've never finished a BookFiz.

[00:02:14]>> I have, so I can.

[00:02:15]>> judge, feel free.

[00:02:16]>> I've finished four and a half.

[00:02:18]>> Well done, you.

[00:02:20]>> Thank you.

[00:02:22]>> But no, >> But no, that's not what we're talking about. We're talking about the girly pops and how they failed us.

[00:02:27]>> [laughter] >> Deeply in media because one thing I have seen is girls complaining that people judge what they're reading because it's not >> Sexism.

[00:02:35]>> Yeah, and it's sexism and it's like, no, it's because those aren't books, those are porn.

[00:02:39]>> Yeah, so that's going to be our other big throw away at the beginning, biggie on the eye chart.

[00:02:45]We don't like porn.

[00:02:46]>> What?

[00:02:47]>> not going to spend a ton of time on the smut of BookTok because you should know right off the bat we disapprove.

[00:02:54]>> Yeah, uh people really underestimate the impact of reading it.

[00:02:59]>> Yeah, like there's this strange movement of it doesn't count if it's a book. It's like it's not true. In fact, in a lot of ways it appeals more to girls things than a video.

[00:03:13]We might touch on a couple of books that contain it, but blanket statement is bad.

[00:03:20]>> It's also just good to be aware of because a lot of these, especially like the covers, the design, how it's pitched, it's not as like, "Oh, this is smut."

[00:03:28]>> Yeah, that's the other thing is so especially for younger girls where you're first maybe starting to look for your own books, your mom doesn't buy them for you anymore.

[00:03:39]>> You have to find them yourself.

[00:03:40]>> You have to know that there's a lot of bad stuff on the internet and you have to check. So I've definitely been thrown off by people recommending books.

[00:03:47]>> People you Yeah, people you know and you're like, and then you start and you're like, "Oh my gosh."

[00:03:51]>> normalized that if you don't know, something can really slip past you and jump scare you. Obviously, you can then just stop reading it, but it's still nice to know in advance that a lot of this stuff has been inappropriately normalized. It's still a porn addiction.

[00:04:07]Don't read that crap.

[00:04:09]But that's biggie on the eye chart.

[00:04:11]>> I'm sorry, you do not get a I feel like you're bringing all Okay, these This is for the smart readers and also for BookTok, which we're going to get more into.

[00:04:19]Like you're bringing shame on the readers' name. Like you do not get to call yourself a reader.

[00:04:24]>> Yeah, don't associate me with you.

[00:04:25]>> Some of this stuff is like first grade reading level.

[00:04:27]>> Mhm.

[00:04:28]>> But then pornographic, so >> what we're going to be talking about today is if it were clean, it'd still be bad.

[00:04:34]>> Cheers to that.

[00:04:35]>> the topic of the day.

[00:04:36]>> It's one of those things where it's like >> {slash} when it is clean, it'd still be bad.

[00:04:40]>> It's like movies where I'm like some of these it's like, oh we could have evangelized. We could take out all the bad words, we could take out all the bad scenes and it's like, is it worth it though?

[00:04:48]>> Yeah, and there's going to be movies where you're like, yes, all the politics of Hollywood and the ungodliness of Hollywood injected something problematic into a good story and you can just take it out.

[00:04:58]>> And sometimes >> movies that aren't like that.

[00:05:00]>> thing's bad, even the not dirty parts.

[00:05:02]>> Mhm. That's what I'm talking about.

[00:05:04]Sometimes the not dirty parts is just the package for the dirty parts.

[00:05:09]So, there's that. And there's there's books like that too where you're like there's there's a book that contains something that I don't necessarily approve of.

[00:05:18]>> So >> So we're here to whatever it is.

[00:05:20]>> Hate on women actually and their reading choices. So that's >> there are books where you're like there's something problematic in here, but there's also gold in here.

[00:05:28]That is not BookTok.

[00:05:29]>> No.

[00:05:31]What book do you want to start with, Lucia?

[00:05:33]>> Yeah, let's start it off strong.

[00:05:35]>> Do we want to start with >> I think we should start with our our quiz.

[00:05:40]>> Yeah, I mean we can't quiz them, obviously, cuz >> But we're going to do an imaginary quiz and then should answer in your heads and let us know in the comment section whether you got them right. And the quiz is is it a New York Times best seller or 11-year-old Lucia?

[00:05:57]>> And I was like this is kind of shameful for 11-year-old Lucia to be compared to this book, but it's okay. She was 11.

[00:06:03]>> Yes, I've gotten the impression that when I start reading things >> [sighs and gasps] >> where I'm sitting there being like I wrote this in middle school.

[00:06:14]When I first got a computer or back when I was on a typewriter even. And I [laughter] like >> I love that you actually wrote stuff when you were that young.

[00:06:21]>> that was this bad and this cringe and it's just published. So >> How do you want to do this? Like two at a time or just read through our quotes and then see if people will have any idea.

[00:06:31]>> I don't know how many we're going to do, but how about we just read through the quotes and then we say which are which.

[00:06:37]>> Sure.

[00:06:37]>> I think you should be able to guess, but I think this is a good idea. Let's let's do this quiz.

[00:06:42]>> I'm sorry, I might not be able to do this like >> [laughter] >> without dying.

[00:06:46]>> Wait, where's the quote on this screenshot?

[00:06:48]>> I believe in you.

[00:06:50]>> Raindrops are my only reminder that clouds have a heartbeat that I have one, too.

[00:06:56]That is our quote one.

[00:06:57]>> Quote number >> [laughter] >> Quote number one.

[00:07:01]Pick your answer.

[00:07:03]>> Quote number two.

[00:07:08]You got this. I believe [laughter] in you.

[00:07:10]>> Her eyes were strange. When people looked at them, they fell into them.

[00:07:13]They felt pulled and they saw.

[00:07:15]What people saw in the girl's eyes was a sort of picture. Grey waves in a stormy sea and ash drifting down from the misty sky. Then whoever it was would snap back to reality and just see a girl.

[00:07:26]>> Beautiful.

[00:07:27]>> That was quote number two.

[00:07:28]>> Quote number two.

[00:07:29]>> [laughter] >> Let's see.

[00:07:33]Barnacles clung to the creaking oak >> [laughter] >> board and sat there content, happily oblivious to the instruments of death they were attached [laughter] to.

[00:07:43]>> Sorry, these are so great.

[00:07:44]>> That is quote three.

[00:07:46]>> Quote number four.

[00:07:47]He cracks a grin so wide, so amused, so refreshingly sincere, it's like a clap of thunder throughout my body.

[00:07:56]Like what is that? A sneeze?

[00:07:58]>> [laughter] >> Okay.

[00:08:01]I feel like one more quote is fine.

[00:08:03]Find your favorite.

[00:08:04]>> Mhm, this is hard.

[00:08:06]His arms are tatted up, half sleeves to his elbows. His eyebrow is missing a ring that they must have confiscated.

[00:08:13]Dark blue eyes, dark brown hair, sharp jawline, strong lean frame, gorgeous, dangerous, terrifying, horrible.

[00:08:21]>> I really wish y'all could see the >> Oh, no, no, no. Also, somebody else I have to throw another one. So, that's quote five. Quote six.

[00:08:27]>> No.

[00:08:28]>> Like individual threads of spun gold lit on fire. Talking about someone's eyelashes.

[00:08:34]Okay, so six quotes.

[00:08:35]>> Do you remember the order cuz I don't?

[00:08:36]>> Uh, I believe you started with >> No, you started.

[00:08:40]>> I started with >> Oh, the rain one.

[00:08:44]>> The raindrops. That is New York Times best seller Shatter Me.

[00:08:50]>> [laughter] >> Second quote I did, and that was from >> That was 11-year-old Lucia was looked in the girl's eyes.

[00:08:57]The barnacles clinging, that is 11-year-old Lucia.

[00:09:01]>> [laughter] >> Uh, mine was also Shatter Me, the New York Times best seller.

[00:09:07]>> All the rest of them are New York Times best seller Shatter Me.

[00:09:12]>> I'm sorry. So, I read this book to write a review for it, Shatter Me. It is a best seller, but not I think since like 2011.

[00:09:19]>> Mhm.

[00:09:20]>> It is one of the worst things I have ever read in my life.

[00:09:23]And it's a best seller, and the first one is clean, and then I think the later like further in in the series it gets, I guess, more explicit.

[00:09:33]>> Wouldn't know.

[00:09:34]>> Yeah, you did not read it. I read it for work.

[00:09:38]And I feel like it is a very good example of one of the tropes that we want to talk about, which is the relationship between men and women in these series.

[00:09:49]And the male leads.

[00:09:51]For one, the plot of the book, if you do not >> have to start on the quotes.

[00:09:55]>> You want to start on the quotes? Okay.

[00:09:56]>> Just start on the quotes what we just talked about is just the prose.

[00:10:00]>> Oh, this this woman is not possible going more than a page without some melodramatic metaphor.

[00:10:06]>> Cringe.

[00:10:07]>> a metaphor and part of the So metaphors the point of a metaphor is to make something more clear.

[00:10:12]>> Mhm.

[00:10:13]>> It's like so you're actually supposed to be getting to something through something else.

[00:10:17]Occasionally, there's time for deeply humorous metaphors that mean absolutely nothing.

[00:10:22]But even those are especially funny if they do actually kind of work. Where you're like, you know, I mean like P.G.

[00:10:27]Wodehouse, where he's like he looked like a sheep with a secret sorrow. I'm like >> But that's comical.

[00:10:32]>> Like I can kind of picture it though.

[00:10:34]Versus what she's doing here.

[00:10:37]>> Yeah, every raindrop reminds me that the clouds have a heartbeat.

[00:10:41]That I have one too. And you're like, SHUT THE HECK UP.

[00:10:44]>> was like a clap of thunder. What does that mean?

[00:10:47]Like I think she's just writing words without any clarity.

[00:10:49]>> Yeah, no, it just I Well, I haven't read the book.

[00:10:54]You called me.

[00:10:56]>> It was about >> to rage. It was about 11:00 p.m. in Ireland that I answered your phone call and you're just like about this book.

[00:11:05]>> Oh my gosh.

[00:11:05]>> So I went and I read the first chapter while I was on the phone with you.

[00:11:08]>> Mhm.

[00:11:09]>> And it's just like, oh my gosh.

[00:11:11]>> I can't believe I made it through the whole book.

[00:11:12]>> The melodrama, the self-seriousness, the the manufactured angst.

[00:11:19]>> The manufactured angst, but genuinely, I'm like I do not think she had any idea what she was saying. She was just saying things that sounded kind of cool in her >> Chasing vibes.

[00:11:27]>> It's chasing vibes without any substance. And it's just non-stop, like continuous terrible analogies.

[00:11:36]>> Yeah, but this is very much and the daydreams of a tween.

[00:11:41]>> Oh, yeah. But, just sticking on the writing for 1 second.

[00:11:44]>> what I'm talking about. This is the kind of metaphors made up by an 11-year-old.

[00:11:47]That's what it is.

[00:11:49]>> And no grammar.

[00:11:52]>> No grammar.

[00:11:53]>> Serious thing, I like McCarthy.

[00:11:55]Cormac McCarthy does not use very much grammar.

[00:11:59]>> of have to earn that.

[00:12:01]>> Yeah, you have to earn it. And for one, you might argue with You might argue that Cormac >> Argue that he should not. It would be better if he used grammar.

[00:12:07]>> used grammar. But, this is like she used I think she >> he doesn't use grammar, like the entirety of it.

[00:12:12]>> [laughter] >> He just rejects the concept. It's maybe a little, you know, anarchist of him, but >> But, yeah. So, she does she has bad grammar.

[00:12:21]>> Terrible. And it's like the excuse because it's through like this diary of a girl. And I'm like I think you just didn't know how to use a period or a comma.

[00:12:29]>> And so, we're covering.

[00:12:31]>> And so, the editor just let it go.

[00:12:33]>> So, plot.

[00:12:35]>> Plot-wise, it's a girl. You meet her in like an asylum, I think.

[00:12:40]And she has this like special power.

[00:12:42]She's like the strongest in the world.

[00:12:43]Anyone who touches her dies.

[00:12:46]>> [laughter] >> You just got your hair hooked in a bracelet. Anyone who touches her dies.

[00:12:50]>> to what you said, obviously.

[00:12:51]>> Yeah.

[00:12:53]Uh it's like a dystopian society, but it's the most shallow, uninteresting dystopian ever. It's like >> Rulers bad.

[00:13:00]>> Rulers bad. There are orphans on the streets.

[00:13:03]>> Didn't you know that orphans immediately >> Orphans are bad, right?

[00:13:07]>> that the entirety of your government system is despicable.

[00:13:11]>> People are starving. But, I'm like, okay. So, you have >> before it happens.

[00:13:15]>> I think the basic Okay, no.

[00:13:17]>> I'm kidding.

[00:13:17]>> [laughter] >> I think the basis for the society was something like, oh, there was someone in charge. Rebellion rose up to be like, help the people. And then apparently they lied to all of us and actually they're also evil.

[00:13:30]I think that's the start. That's tough.

[00:13:32]She is like super powered. Anyone who touches her dies. It's very traumatic for her.

[00:13:36]So she has all of this trauma.

[00:13:38]>> We love the powerful victim trope.

[00:13:40]>> Yes.

[00:13:41]>> It's such a powerful victim.

[00:13:43]>> But people want to use her as a weapon and >> She meets a guy in prison or in the asylum. Which she should be in based on her use of grammar, just saying.

[00:13:54]But and metaphor.

[00:13:56]She meets a guy and he can touch her and it's like wow.

[00:13:59]>> Magic.

[00:14:00]>> Magic.

[00:14:01]I think he's like halfway a traitor.

[00:14:03]It's very confusing. But overall >> But he's a secret soft >> he's in love with her. Total simp.

[00:14:08]Uninteresting. One of these like faux masculine like with the description you're like he's tatted up.

[00:14:13]>> tatted.

[00:14:14]>> He's sharp, dangerous. Like what is with this crap?

[00:14:18]>> It's like but he's actually a secret soft boy.

[00:14:20]>> actually a secret soft boy who's totally traumatized and a massive simp for the main girl for no reason.

[00:14:26]This is one of my other problems.

[00:14:27]>> Across all the books there's such performative masculinity where it's like he's jacked but has no masculine personality traits.

[00:14:34]>> No.

[00:14:35]Not an ounce of testosterone.

[00:14:37]Like >> No, all the testosterone went to the muscles.

[00:14:40]>> That's it.

[00:14:41]>> None for personality.

[00:14:42]>> so massive simp also like the faux masculinity. Then there's the trauma boy villain.

[00:14:47]>> very like uh >> [clears throat] >> It's just very castrated all the male characters.

[00:14:54]>> Genuinely. And it's really bad because I mean we can talk about that in a minute.

[00:14:58]>> we'll get to more of those.

[00:14:59]>> The other villain well the other male lead is a villain initially and >> He's like super evil but also super into her and also traumatized and actually forced to do evil things and it's so sad.

[00:15:11]And has like a terrible backstory.

[00:15:13]But he's super super into her for no reason.

[00:15:16]>> What likable qualities does this girl have that powerful men are >> Not >> head over heels?

[00:15:22]>> He's the actual male lead, I think, by the end of the series.

[00:15:25]>> Oh, is he blondy?

[00:15:25]>> Yeah, he's blondy.

[00:15:26]>> Um Aaron Warner, I think, is his name. He's famous.

[00:15:30]>> Yeah.

[00:15:31]>> So, if anyone of you have been like seen any book talk things, some of these names might be recognizable.

[00:15:37]>> Yeah, jog a memory or two.

[00:15:40]>> But, I just it's one of those books where you do not know where to start because you genuinely do not understand how anyone could have ever liked this.

[00:15:49]>> It doesn't serve a purpose beyond toxic daydreams.

[00:15:53]>> Yes, it's so badly written. And I hear people talk about it and they hype it and they're like, "He's such a man."

[00:16:00]And then I look at what's there, I'm like, "How on earth did we get to a point where this is your standard of masculinity?"

[00:16:07]And I think it's through being raised on this sort of thing.

[00:16:11]But, I'm not entirely sure. It's just It is just catering to like these toxic desires.

[00:16:17]>> I mean, it can be affected by how you're raised.

[00:16:20]But, women from the very beginning have had certain temptations.

[00:16:29]>> Yeah.

[00:16:29]>> Like, let's start in the garden.

[00:16:32]>> What did we do there?

[00:16:32]>> What did Eve do there?

[00:16:34]>> Not great.

[00:16:35]>> And she was not satisfied with her place.

[00:16:40]And people say that like it's a horrible thing to say. It's like, "You should know your place." I'm like, "Technically, yeah."

[00:16:45]>> Well, technically, everyone should know their place.

[00:16:47]>> Everyone including God. It's just like you should know your place.

[00:16:50]>> You're given a place. You're given a role in this world and you're meant to follow through on whatever that is. It's like, I don't mean that in the super stereotypical gender role thing. But, it's like, yeah, everyone has a role.

[00:17:02]>> for you to do something.

[00:17:03]>> Mhm.

[00:17:04]And there's a way of rebelling against that.

[00:17:06]>> Eve's something was don't eat a fruit.

[00:17:08]>> Yeah, and what tempted her to that is to be something greater.

[00:17:15]Yeah, like you will be like God.

[00:17:18]>> Right.

[00:17:18]>> You will specifically there, honestly, be above man.

[00:17:22]And that has been the temptation of women >> So, this is one of the >> I'm just saying it's kind of built into us. It's a fundamental temptation to break free of any form of submission and rule over the man in our life.

[00:17:39]>> But, yeah, sure.

[00:17:40]>> And so, you have a book that is just that.

[00:17:43]>> And you kind of know that all it is is catering to female emotion because and I guess some dudes read it, but I'm guessing that's mostly to, you know, >> Performative?

[00:17:55]>> be a performative male and get girls.

[00:17:59]But, you kind of know that all it is is the emotional pull and these toxic desires because there's so little substance to the writing.

[00:18:05]I'm like, if you had an ounce It's not even if you had an ounce of intelligence. It's like if you were aware.

[00:18:12]Like if you actually were managing to distinguish between like oh how you feel about this versus what it is, then you would notice how terrible the book was.

[00:18:24]>> Yeah, and I don't know how much of that is willful ignorance >> No idea.

[00:18:28]>> versus just ignorance, but it is like obviously, I haven't read through all of Shatter Me.

[00:18:33]>> The first chapter was >> the first chapter, but I've also read other books that are doing the same thing.

[00:18:38]>> I read all of it and I was genuinely like shook by how terrible it was.

[00:18:42]>> Yeah, it's just it's I'm sure we've used this term before, but we do refer to some stories as junior high girls daydreams.

[00:18:50]>> Yeah, I guess we can talk a little about that.

[00:18:53]>> In what way, Lucia?

[00:18:55]Well, >> I love doing that.

[00:18:57]>> It's hard to >> [laughter] >> hard to actually define because it's just you had to have been a junior high girl.

[00:19:02]>> [laughter] >> You know, like sorry if you weren't a junior high girl or if you aren't a junior high >> you remember being in junior high.

[00:19:09]What kind of things were your daydreams?

[00:19:13]And you look at it >> I think the victim strong like combination.

[00:19:18]>> Strong victim is a really really big one.

[00:19:21]>> But I think that is it. Similarly for a lot of people now.

[00:19:23]>> Similarly beautiful victim.

[00:19:27]So we love the I'm super beautiful but nobody likes how I look.

[00:19:33]So I can like I can be gorgeous but also a victim. I can be super powerful but there's a way in which I'm victimized.

[00:19:38]>> traumatizing.

[00:19:39]>> But it's traumatizing to be me. It's traumatizing to be so beautiful and it's traumatizing to be so strong.

[00:19:44]And so it's just really hard to be me.

[00:19:47]And >> Why do we really really want it to be hard to be us? And I'm like I think it's just a way of having an excuse for any behavior.

[00:19:54]>> It does excuse behavior.

[00:19:56]And it just makes you feel very accomplished for just existing.

[00:19:59]>> It's like look at me not dying.

[00:20:01]>> a participation award for this life.

[00:20:03]>> I made it through the day.

[00:20:05]>> Yeah, so beautiful victim, strong victim.

[00:20:08]Uh For girls it's very much the they're obsessed with me for no reason. So guys I think have that less because guys like the idea of having all the things that make girls attracted to them.

[00:20:24]>> I don't think guys maybe I'm wrong but >> are attracted to I mean wealthy, powerful, good-looking, fit men. And guys are like that sounds great.

[00:20:37]I would love to be fit, powerful, wealthy, like all of that.

[00:20:41]>> Girls are much more I want you to like the broken bits of us.

[00:20:44]>> Girls are would you love me if I was a worm?

[00:20:47]>> He's like no.

[00:20:47]>> No.

[00:20:48]>> [laughter] >> No, but like would you love me if I was fat? Would you love me if I didn't have any legs and didn't have any eyes and was bald?

[00:20:58]>> It's like What is this hypothetical?

[00:21:00][laughter] >> No, but we we have this weird attraction to being loved like not just liked, loved.

[00:21:08]Solely and fully loved and not deserve it.

[00:21:12]>> Loved, but like for our soul or something and not for any of the external parts of ourselves.

[00:21:16]>> like here, your soul sucks.

[00:21:19]Yeah, I'm like, work on that.

[00:21:21]But >> like they want to think that they're They want to think that their flaws are somehow detached from their identity.

[00:21:27]>> Yeah.

[00:21:28]>> And that there is this precious little me deep on the inside that is free of all of said unlikable qualities and he loves that.

[00:21:36]And no matter how poorly I treat him, no matter how disastrously I act, no matter how many handicaps I add on, he loves that precious spark of me.

[00:21:45]>> Yeah, it's ridiculous.

[00:21:47]But in these books it's like there's there's I guess it's that because there's no reason for them to like her.

[00:21:52]>> Yeah, and that explains so many of them.

[00:21:55]>> And it's like >> So, people make fun of Twilight for that.

[00:21:58]>> Yeah.

[00:21:58]>> Cuz everybody knows that main chick of Twilight is just a cardboard cutout girl.

[00:22:03]>> Yeah.

[00:22:03]>> So that all girls can imagine themselves into that position.

[00:22:07]>> Which is what a lot of these do, too.

[00:22:09]>> Mhm.

[00:22:10]So, it's just the idea of like I >> cutouts, but in like a we're spicy type way.

[00:22:15]Like, I'm actually an angry person.

[00:22:17]>> the other girls, but I'm exactly like any girl you could possibly imagine.

[00:22:23]>> [laughter] [gasps] >> Once I shed off, you know.

[00:22:25]>> But yeah, so these are the the junior high girls daydreams. There's also uh detaching of consequences.

[00:22:31]So whatever plot you can concoct to allow her to behave based on her passions and impulses without consequences. That's also very big for the daydreams.

[00:22:42]>> Mhm.

[00:22:43]>> So, you got any other daydream qualities to add or does that kind of cover it?

[00:22:48]>> Um I The lack of substance >> Mhm, true.

[00:22:54]>> So, one of my other problems with this >> Vibes.

[00:22:56]>> is the world building >> vibes.

[00:22:57]>> being like nothing.

[00:23:00]>> Mhm.

[00:23:00]>> Like I understand if you're not going to go the sci-fi or the, you know, like deep fantasy route of building you don't have to be Tolkien. No, of course not. You don't have to have languages. Like, I get that. But, you can impressionism is not the same thing as cardboard cutouts.

[00:23:16]Yes, I'm like, but there has to be something there.

[00:23:19]So, when I like think about it, it makes some kind of sense or there's basis for things and it's a daydream quality. It's like there's actually no nothing built up here.

[00:23:28]>> Yeah, like how many people at their ripe age of 11 daydreaming during math class have the background filled in?

[00:23:38]Yeah, like it's like it's all fuzzy, it doesn't matter.

[00:23:41]No, it's not the point. The point is the emotional turmoil that's going on in the front. And literally only the feelings.

[00:23:46]And it's like feeling to feeling to feeling. That's another daydream quality is you could do like a lot of unnecessary emotional beats. Where it's like what is what is this? Like why?

[00:23:55]Couldn't we just all be mature about this and have it not be a problem? No, no, we can't.

[00:24:00]>> But, we need the angst, the feelings, the turmoil.

[00:24:03]So, all those qualities are going to hold for a lot of these books we'll mention.

[00:24:09]Yeah, and we'll we'll just kind of just like drop some names. I don't we're not going to go through all of them. This one we got to go through because I read it.

[00:24:16]But, it was bad. Shatter me, don't read any of them. That's my recommendation.

[00:24:20]Unless you want to be like really cracked up, read like the first chapter.

[00:24:23]The first chapter you can laugh at it and it's a good time.

[00:24:26]>> [laughter] >> It's like what on But, >> this is the sort of thing where it's just you this is not edifying because when you're talking about cheap reads, you still want it to be not destructive. Yeah, it also has one of the re-eat popcorn, not like rotten orange peels.

[00:24:47]>> I mean, I agree. I just don't know what I'm just saying like there's a difference between something that's like it's cheap, it's fun, like the first Maze Runner.

[00:24:55]Yeah, versus something that is just >> toxic.

[00:25:00]>> Toxic, rotten, vomitous.

[00:25:02]>> Cuz sometimes things are It's like, "Okay, I am a snob." However, I'm not entirely a snob.

[00:25:06]>> Snob but I have.

[00:25:07]>> Wait, that makes me more of a snob.

[00:25:08]>> Yes.

[00:25:09]>> [laughter] >> Hey.

[00:25:11]I am a snob. I'm aware. However, I do like popcorn things.

[00:25:15]>> Yeah, we've enjoyed it.

[00:25:17]>> Yeah, and it's like so you can have things but not this thing.

[00:25:21]>> No, not this thing.

[00:25:22]>> This one I'm not giving to you.

[00:25:23]>> Okay.

[00:25:23]The second >> Through the authority of this is me. Actually, there was one more comment I had about this, which can bring us into another one, is the stereotype of villain being the main lead.

[00:25:35]>> Okay. That's another thing we can shout out for BookTok.

[00:25:38]So, one thing I've heard other people diss on BookTok, well, for about BookTok, which I approve of, is how tropy it's become, where there's things that rather than being fleshed out characters unique to each book.

[00:25:56]Same with plots. You just have these cardboard cutouts. I keep saying cardboard cutouts, but there's so many of them. Cookie cutters, how about that?

[00:26:03]We've got these cookie cutters, yeah, that we just reuse.

[00:26:07]Enemies to lovers, for example. And I can love me an enemies to lovers, but you don't want to just like cookie cut, cookie cut, cookie cut each one.

[00:26:16]>> It's the exact same arc. It's the exact same >> the exact same You're okay to have You can have it be briefly described as that. Like if I was going to sum it up, it would be enemies to lovers. But you don't want it to just be just enemies to lovers. And there's so many that are just the exact same thing. Similarly, with what you just said, the villain thing.

[00:26:34]So, villain means bad guy.

[00:26:38]>> I would say there are two types of this.

[00:26:40]>> Okay.

[00:26:41]>> But can I split it up for you and then you say your thing?

[00:26:44]Real villain, fake villain.

[00:26:46]>> Yeah, but these are only fake villains.

[00:26:47]>> Yes, this is like that, but there is also with like dark romance, which is a side of BookTok we're not going to get super into because >> No, we're not. No.

[00:26:55]>> Like at all? Because we can just say that's the real villains and that's They're still bad characters, though.

[00:27:00]Sure.

[00:27:01]>> Should be avoided at all costs.

[00:27:03]>> Mhm. Turn and run.

[00:27:04]>> Don't do it.

[00:27:05]>> Nope.

[00:27:05]>> I didn't have to read any to know that.

[00:27:07]>> Anywho, that's We've done the same cookie-cutter thing with titles like villains.

[00:27:13]Where we call it something that it isn't.

[00:27:17]By the way, it's like a fundamental thing Christians disapprove of.

[00:27:21]Lying.

[00:27:22]>> It's like [laughter] let's use incorrect words.

[00:27:25]>> You're not supposed to call things by what they're not.

[00:27:27]So, villains, that means bad guy, which means they have to be bad.

[00:27:31]And there's this disgustipating trope.

[00:27:34]>> Disgustipating.

[00:27:35]>> That is simping for villains, but a big part of why we simp for the villains, collective we, not me, >> No, we're like burn it.

[00:27:44]>> like a witch? They're not real villains.

[00:27:46]Except for >> So, Side note.

[00:27:49]Okay, finish your thought and then I will interrupt you again.

[00:27:51]>> Okay.

[00:27:52]>> [laughter] >> There was this quote that was circulating for a little bit that I saw online that was >> [sighs and gasps] >> a hero will sacrifice you to save the world. The villain will sacrifice the world to save you.

[00:28:07]>> I had a response to that.

[00:28:09]>> Well, we both do. And I'm sure we've brought this up before, but it's stupid because the real If you wanted to be accurate, a hero sacrifices himself to save you and the world. It's like a villain sacrifices you to save himself.

[00:28:25]That's like that's it. That's an actual villain. You will die to save him.

[00:28:32]>> Yes.

[00:28:32]>> The world, who knows.

[00:28:34]But a hero, it's like they will find like a true hero will always find the option of them dying first.

[00:28:42]>> Mhm.

[00:28:43]>> Rather than ever sacrificing someone else. And those are the actual categories.

[00:28:48]So, this really just icky fake thing which is he wears black and he talks all angsty. And he has a smirk. He has a smirk and he uses derogatory nicknames for you.

[00:29:01]>> [laughter] [gasps] >> And he is a grade A simp.

[00:29:08]>> And he loves >> he'll sacrifice the world to save you.

[00:29:11]That's not a villain. In fact, that doesn't exist. Also, if you're >> Like you should not want someone to do that.

[00:29:17]>> No, you should not like that.

[00:29:19]>> any moral compass, you should not want someone to sacrifice the world for you.

[00:29:22]>> Yeah, for one you have to realize that that is fake.

[00:29:24]>> is that?

[00:29:25]>> very pretend. We're playing pretend.

[00:29:27]This is not a real guy.

[00:29:30]>> Which is part of the danger of it because you're building up this We talked about this a bit when we talked about Phantom of the Opera, I think.

[00:29:35]>> Mhm.

[00:29:36]>> Which is you're building up this idea of a villain for girls.

[00:29:39]>> Yeah.

[00:29:39]>> You're a man romanticizing this like dark man.

[00:29:42]>> Mhm.

[00:29:42]>> Right? And in the book, it's not real.

[00:29:45]Right? Like villains aren't actually like that.

[00:29:49]Villain Like it's it's just super fake.

[00:29:51]And so, they'll be simping over like this false man. Then they meet people in real life and someone who's an actual villain and they'll be they'll already built up like this pull towards dark man.

[00:30:01]>> pretend like they can keep it entirely separate.

[00:30:04]>> You can't. People are like, we only like it in books. And I'm like, but you're still training your loves.

[00:30:10]>> Yeah, you're training your instincts and what you're pulled towards and you're going to do that in real life. And the real evil men are not good, shockingly.

[00:30:17]That might be a contradiction in my terms.

[00:30:19]>> maybe it won't attract you to real bad guys because they are gross.

[00:30:23]Maybe it just stops you from being attracted to real good guys.

[00:30:27]>> Right.

[00:30:27]>> Because you are training your affections in what you can see.

[00:30:31]>> man.

[00:30:31]>> For this fantasy thing that isn't even likable.

[00:30:34]>> Yeah, I'm like it's not even a desirable thing.

[00:30:36]>> No.

[00:30:36]>> So, it's such a waste.

[00:30:38]>> And that's another thing is you really have to you can't separate it, but that also means guarding your your fanta- your fantasies, guarding your fantasy likes. If you don't get to say, I can like it cuz it's pretend, I can like it cuz it's not real.

[00:30:56]You should only be pouring your heart and your feelings into something that you think is objectively good.

[00:31:02]>> Right.

[00:31:04]But one of the other problems with the villain trope, and you said this a little bit when you talked about the girls, where it's like disconnecting consequences.

[00:31:10]>> Mhm.

[00:31:11]>> It's like this is also what it does, because it's like, oh, they were misunderstood, whatever. It often has that for them.

[00:31:17]>> a drama boy.

[00:31:18]>> He's just a trauma boy, and so it justifies doing terrible things because he was traumatized.

[00:31:22]>> Mhm.

[00:31:23]>> And it moves past it in certain ways without actually addressing it.

[00:31:27]>> Yeah, see this is something we've definitely mentioned before is we love to see villains and heroes have the same backstory.

[00:31:35]>> Right.

[00:31:36]>> Because you should be able to have the entire world wrong you, and there's going to be none of that crap of he had every right to become a villain.

[00:31:44]>> No, he didn't just >> No, he didn't actually. He's Even if he's way more wronged than I've ever been, we're actually held to the same standards, fun fact. And Christ was the most wronged person ever.

[00:31:59]>> Yeah, thanks.

[00:31:59]>> just saying there was there was literally one person in all of history >> Who did nothing wrong.

[00:32:05]>> completely, and utterly wronged, has never sinned, and was slaughtered for it.

[00:32:14]>> And nobody's going, he has every right to become I'm like, no. It's [laughter] like no, it's like >> They kind of defeats the point of the story.

[00:32:21]>> the standard, and it's incredible to have that story. And so, to romanticize and sympathize with the opposite >> Yeah, it's actually >> Basing your moral compass entirely on feelings and emotions, cuz it's like, okay, so now I feel bad.

[00:32:37]Like now I feel angry. Now I feel hurt.

[00:32:39]Like now so it's like anything is right if I feel this way. Like I >> And that's very healthy for girls to internalize.

[00:32:48]>> [laughter] >> Like this is what I want my junior high girls learning.

[00:32:52]>> Mhm. Oh by the way, when we call it junior high when we call it junior high girls daydream obviously we should be teaching the junior high girls not to do that. So even at even at that age it's not cute anymore.

[00:33:04]>> No, it's it's not good at all.

[00:33:05]>> I'm just saying that is the age where we kill it.

[00:33:08]>> We're going to say it's stupid junior high girl daydream.

[00:33:11]>> Yeah, no but just like >> Just assume the stupid.

[00:33:13]>> Yes, but I'm just saying that is the age where we kill this. So it's depressing to see it in adults.

[00:33:18]>> Yeah, cuz apparently it wasn't killed.

[00:33:20]It's not dead when you were 11.

[00:33:23]>> Yes.

[00:33:24]But a lot of like I don't know. It's also one thing that I have seen throughout them is this inability to forgive.

[00:33:31]Partially because of the emotions of it.

[00:33:34]Where it's like you have no you're not required to forgive people.

[00:33:37]>> Yeah, I can't forgive you unless you've successfully made me feel bad for you.

[00:33:41]>> Yeah, and often it's like you are not required to forgive them.

[00:33:46]You are you have you owe them nothing.

[00:33:48]Like you're entirely like you need to be self-fulfilled.

[00:33:53]>> valid.

[00:33:54]>> Yeah, your feelings are valid. Like you do not you're not nothing is required of you basically.

[00:33:59]>> You perfect little munchkin.

[00:34:00]>> You perfect little munchkin. [laughter] Like if have all the meltdowns you want.

[00:34:04]You can do no wrong.

[00:34:06]Says every man in every one of these books apparently.

[00:34:08]>> I [snorts] support women's rights and wrongs. Going to >> Like you know this is funny because you are in fact required to forgive people.

[00:34:13]Fun fact. Fun fact. You learn that.

[00:34:16]>> new today listening to us.

[00:34:18]>> [laughter] >> Never would have thought. But yeah.

[00:34:22]Should we talk about another book? How about any other tropes?

[00:34:24]>> The Cruel Prince.

[00:34:26]>> I did not read that one so cheers.

[00:34:28]>> Up to you.

[00:34:29]>> I think most of it once.

[00:34:32]And that's cuz it was everywhere, right?

[00:34:34]Like >> Was that one of the ones that someone recommended to you?

[00:34:37]>> No, but I was just I'd been seeing it everywhere and I'd seen a lot of people talking about it. Nobody had recommended it to me, but I wanted to read at least part of it.

[00:34:44]And then I Googled the rest.

[00:34:46]Like a good person.

[00:34:48]>> I think you did that with ACOTAR, too.

[00:34:50]>> Mhm. ACOTAR was recommended to me.

[00:34:53]>> A Court of Thorns and Roses?

[00:34:55]>> Yeah.

[00:34:55]>> ACOTAR, for sure.

[00:34:58]>> Bad.

[00:34:59]Bad bad.

[00:35:00]>> But it's like yeah, I read the first little chunk and then Googled the rest. Because that's another one where it was recommended to me. It's not good, but I'd also seen it everywhere.

[00:35:11]Everywhere. And it's kind of unfortunate to find out what's got smut in it or not because then every time you see it, you know what that person's reading and you're like, "Girl."

[00:35:21]>> You're like so disappointed.

[00:35:23]>> Like what is wrong with you?

[00:35:23]>> Like I used to just live in ignorance.

[00:35:26]>> Well, it's actually one of the important things though of like knowing what's in stuff.

[00:35:31]>> Mhm. Well, it's it's you know what people are reading.

[00:35:35]>> Yeah.

[00:35:36]And you're looking at the best sellers.

[00:35:38]>> Yeah, and you're not just like you and me, girl, to any other like fantasy reader.

[00:35:41]>> Yeah, and you're feeling kind of concerned actually for the state of state of the world that these are on best seller lists.

[00:35:48]>> is must be so down."

[00:35:49]>> Oh, literacy is in the trenches.

[00:35:50]>> In the trenches.

[00:35:52]>> Cuz it's painful to get through.

[00:35:53]>> Mhm.

[00:35:54]Anyhow, but Cruel Prince first.

[00:35:55]>> Continue.

[00:35:56]>> Cruel Prince wasn't inappropriate. I don't know if it's later books [snorts] got I don't know.

[00:36:00]But anywhos, it's Oh, it was so bad.

[00:36:05]>> We just got to hate for a podcast. I love this.

[00:36:07]>> is this is a hater podcast. So Cruel Prince >> Little cathartic.

[00:36:10]>> had a horrible female lead.

[00:36:12]And it was kind of an attempt at a morally gray female lead.

[00:36:17]And she's trying to be so different and it's also enemies to lovers where he literally tries to drown her at one point, but it's just he was super obsessed with her.

[00:36:27]Like he's one of the the unwilling captives of love, which I hate to see because >> What the heck?

[00:36:34]>> that's dumb. So he's like unwillingly obsessed with her.

[00:36:39]Which means that she's constantly in the domineering position.

[00:36:44]Oof. When she figures it out.

[00:36:48]And it's just bucket loads of angst. And similarly with like bad writing, not quite Shadow Army levels.

[00:36:56]But bad angsty writing with a female lead who's completely disconnected from consequences because they kind of just made everyone around her bad.

[00:37:04]>> So she can just like slide through life.

[00:37:06]>> whatever she wants. It does involve killing people.

[00:37:09]And the way that she mistreats and enslaves her love interest.

[00:37:14]So bad. But then again, he's also just a horrible love interest because he's horrible.

[00:37:22]>> We need to broaden our vocabulary.

[00:37:23]>> really fussy. Like so he's super fussy.

[00:37:27]Dangerously misbehaving.

[00:37:31]Like trying to drown her for example.

[00:37:33]>> Dangerously [laughter] misbehaving.

[00:37:34]That's such a euphemistic way of saying that.

[00:37:37]>> Well, I'm just saying like he's an actual physical threat to her.

[00:37:39]>> Yeah, yeah, okay, I get it. I'm just I'm amused by the phrasing.

[00:37:43]>> a toddler's level of emotional control.

[00:37:46]>> Oh my gosh.

[00:37:47]>> And >> Really attractive this.

[00:37:50]>> Yeah, so he's just a bucket load of just angst, but he's also really lazy cuz he's a prince, but she's kind of doing everything.

[00:37:58]>> Oh shoot.

[00:37:59]>> And she is a human who is brought into fairyland and is trying to like prove herself via violence. And she also puts her hair in like horn shapes because she's always trying like not to be human. And I'm like that's that's rough, buddy.

[00:38:16]But that's rough.

[00:38:18]Anyhow, I don't have too much to say about it except that it lines up with our junior high girls' daydreams.

[00:38:25]But with I think the two versions that you could have junior high girls' daydreams is the damsel and the powerhouse.

[00:38:35]Where it's like elaborate.

[00:38:37]>> [laughter] >> Twilight. She's very damsel.

[00:38:39]>> Ah, yes.

[00:38:41]>> Pale and sickly saints. I don't know.

[00:38:43]I've never seen that.

[00:38:47]Anyhoo, it's a book.

[00:38:49]>> [laughter] >> Oh, yeah.

[00:38:51]We're talking about the books.

[00:38:53]And then the powerhouse is the like unrealistically girl power.

[00:38:59]So, this is in that category where just everything is going well and you go girl even though she's fundamentally much weaker than everybody cuz it's not just the genders, it's also the species.

[00:39:10]>> Mhm.

[00:39:11]>> So, she's not just a woman, she's a human woman and they don't really justify how well she's doing >> Ah.

[00:39:18]>> in all of this.

[00:39:19]>> Well, Shadow Me I think is a combination.

[00:39:21]>> She's yes, it's both. But >> and a powerhouse.

[00:39:24]>> super bloodthirsty, so it's just it's a whole mess on that front.

[00:39:29]But yes, once again with it covers the villainous male lead.

[00:39:33]>> Mhm.

[00:39:33]>> You don't want that and he's not a real person.

[00:39:36]It covers the simp of like the lack of masculinity in gender roles.

[00:39:44]And it also covers like the the really basic tropiness.

[00:39:48]>> Yeah, it definitely seems like a theme to these books is girls either starting and then continuing or learning to completely like let go of self-control.

[00:39:57]>> Mhm.

[00:39:58]>> Where it's like you have people and it's like oh we were so repressed.

[00:40:01]>> is a bad thing.

[00:40:02]>> Self-control or like >> being repressed. That's why we're here.

[00:40:05]>> [laughter] >> Help, help. But yeah, basically like some of them I think start with like oh we have to do this and we have to do that and we're like, you know, being ice queens or whatever and controlling our emotions.

[00:40:16]>> being Elsa. And then we let it go. And then we learn to let it go and it's so great. And then we rage against the world and blow things up.

[00:40:23]>> goes great.

[00:40:24]>> I'm like, this is such a good moral for people. But Crown Prince sounds bad.

[00:40:28]>> Acdar.

[00:40:29]>> Acdar, we don't really need to talk about.

[00:40:31]>> I have to because the main girl >> Okay.

[00:40:34]>> is one of the worst offenses I have ever seen in my life. I think her name's like Farah or something.

[00:40:41]>> Farah?

[00:40:41]>> Farah.

[00:40:42]>> I don't know how to say that word.

[00:40:44]It's spelled with a Y.

[00:40:46]>> novel.

[00:40:47]>> fairy but spelled wrong.

[00:40:49]>> I feel like it's Farah.

[00:40:50]>> Fair.

[00:40:52]Continue.

[00:40:53]>> I think her name is irrelevant. She is one of the worst that I've ever seen. And I read a chapter and was like, holy crap.

[00:41:00]Because for one >> Cuz crap should be holy.

[00:41:04]>> Um >> Millennial women stop reading porn with teenagers.

[00:41:08]>> Stop reading porn, but >> [laughter] >> why? Why are we fantasizing about being a teenager in a relationship with a 500-year-old?

[00:41:17]At your ripe age of >> know I don't know how old millennials are.

[00:41:22]>> They're hitting 40.

[00:41:23]>> Ooh.

[00:41:25]Sorry. [laughter] >> [gasps] >> I'm still young.

[00:41:29]>> Y'all old.

[00:41:31]No, I think you're not that old. I just say that because a lot of >> [laughter] >> You're reaching 30.

[00:41:36]>> Yeah, basically.

[00:41:37]>> Eight years away.

[00:41:37]>> But you are too too old for this.

[00:41:41]And like I said, we disapprove of porn overall, but even if it wasn't even if it was clean. See, this is the theme of the day. Even if it was clean, it would suck.

[00:41:51]is you should not be daydreaming about being a 19-year-old woman >> with no personality.

[00:41:58]>> girl a 19-year-old girl in a relationship with a 500-year-old.

[00:42:03]>> I think some of these people are just like >> are you doing? So, that's just starting off strong. She's 19. 19 blessed years of age.

[00:42:10]Just old enough to be legal for this amount of inappropriateness. And she is so skinny.

[00:42:18]She is so skinny. She's so skinny that she's insecure about how skinny she is.

[00:42:24]She's so skinny but she can kill a giant wolf with a bow and arrow with one shot because everyone knows how super skinny people are so good at powerful archery and hunting and sword fighting and all that good stuff. She also hates wearing dresses. And so when the main guy, well the the main guy the first book when the main guy >> switch, right?

[00:42:46]>> Yeah, we do.

[00:42:47]>> Yeah.

[00:42:47]>> He forces her to wear pretty dresses and she's like, "Ugh, I hate wearing pretty dresses." You know? [laughter] And I'm just like, "Girl."

[00:42:56]>> Oh my god.

[00:42:57]>> And she's beautiful.

[00:42:59]But she looks like her mom so who's dead. So her whole family kind of hates her for it and she doesn't think she's beautiful.

[00:43:07]So beautiful victim thing.

[00:43:08]>> Oh my goodness.

[00:43:09]>> But she's a beautiful victim who hates dresses and is not like the other girls and is super skinny but so strong and just she literally murdered someone like right off the bat. Murder, deliberate murder.

[00:43:25]It's like it's of a fairy but that's still a conscious being and she knows what she's doing. She's like, "Giant wolf, it's probably a fairy. I hate fairies. Screw them."

[00:43:33]That's racist.

[00:43:36]>> [laughter] >> But she she >> she I was like, "Is this still her train of thought?"

[00:43:41]>> [laughter] >> No no, that's Lucia.

[00:43:43]>> [gasps] >> She murders him and then gets like pissy when his friend comes and is like "Who murdered my friend?"

[00:43:57]I'm like she murdered him and she doesn't feel bad at all and her punishment her punishment >> was with this punishment? Like this is so irrational.

[00:44:06]>> punishment for murdering his friend and subordinate is to come live with him in his castle.

[00:44:13]And right now she's living I'm just saying right now she's living in a hut with her whole family that hates her and she's the breadwinner and they're starving.

[00:44:24]And it's like for the crime of murder you're going to live in a castle in fairyland with a really hot guy and going to wear pretty dresses while he hits on you and you talk a lot of unnecessary smack and pretend like he's trying to kill you when he's clearly into you.

[00:44:43]>> [sighs] >> And this is it's >> I'm liking physical pain.

[00:44:46]>> It's >> [laughter] >> so bad.

[00:44:48]>> But don't worry, he's not the male lead.

[00:44:50]The male lead is like the mysterious villain.

[00:44:53]>> Yeah, the the villain that it's like turns out he's actually like so traumatized.

[00:44:59]>> And it's everything he's done is not that bad. He gets to be a scary villain with him.

[00:45:03]>> Yeah, they get to be like scary villain couple. I don't actually know. Uh that's just from Google.

[00:45:10]>> Yeah, it's Oh my gosh. So >> But I'm just saying like if you're ever reading something that you're going like giggling and kicking your feet over this fancy situation, maybe just like slow your roll a little bit and think through it and think through it with like a snarky sarcastic mind.

[00:45:29]And just >> the thing.

[00:45:30]>> Just fact check what you're you're reading in your cheap it's easy to get sucked in to like emotional tropy things.

[00:45:39]>> Sure.

[00:45:39]>> And sometimes you just have to step back and actually look at it.

[00:45:43]>> I think the genuinely easiest place to start is quality.

[00:45:47]>> Mhm.

[00:45:48]>> Cuz it's not like there aren't toxic terrible things that are good. Well written.

[00:45:52]>> what?

[00:45:53]>> There are those.

[00:45:55]>> Good is a choice of words.

[00:45:56]>> Yeah, well >> I mean well written.

[00:45:57]>> Well written, not good.

[00:45:59]>> We love toxic things.

[00:46:00]>> But >> [laughter] >> From my experience generally, they're not.

[00:46:06]So simply like noticing like okay, so is this like actually really really low quality?

[00:46:14]>> Is a good place to start because often that means you're not there for anything else like I already said.

[00:46:20]>> Yeah, if it's really low quality >> It kind of reveals why you're here. It's for the emotional roller coaster.

[00:46:26]>> Right.

[00:46:29]So there's that.

[00:46:30]>> Yeah, but So I was like okay, so I would say Shatter Me is a good example. Um it's a series. Don't bother unless you want to be deeply amused with like a page.

[00:46:40]Act don't even bother.

[00:46:41]>> No.

[00:46:42]>> It's also a series. It's total crap.

[00:46:44]Cruel Prince.

[00:46:45]>> Mhm.

[00:46:46]>> Bad. Fourth Wing, was that one of them?

[00:46:47]>> Fourth Wing is another one where I read the very beginning. And it's bad because it was every freaking where. It's another one that's inappropriate. So know that.

[00:46:55]But even if it were clean, it would suck. So that's Because it's it's the girl who's not like the other girls and it's one of my least favorite things is a fake enemies to lovers.

[00:47:06]>> Oh yeah, when he's like already into her and she's just beefing for no reason.

[00:47:09]>> a lot of things that are tagged enemies to lovers where the guy is clearly crushing from the beginning and she's just her inner monologue is going he's actually probably trying to kill me.

[00:47:17]>> It's like are you dense?

[00:47:18]>> It's like >> Answer.

[00:47:20]>> Yes, dumb as rocks. I hate it so.

[00:47:22]>> You have no intellect.

[00:47:23]>> So yeah, so that's a bad Don't read that.

[00:47:28]>> Um what other things should we add list?

[00:47:30]>> Um Summer I Turned Pretty.

[00:47:32]>> That's a book, yes.

[00:47:33]>> Yes, it's also a book.

[00:47:35]I know it's [clears throat] a show, have not watched it, feel zero desire to.

[00:47:38]>> I'm not interested in and don't think other people should be interested in stories that are purely about girls wrecking guys emotionally.

[00:47:47]So Summer I Turned Pretty is really elongated love triangle.

[00:47:52]>> Between brothers.

[00:47:53]>> Between brothers and there's a couple other dudes too here and there, but >> I wouldn't know.

[00:47:58]At least one other.

[00:47:59]>> I'll take your word for >> But it's just this elongated love triangle where she she won't pick, but then she picks, and then she cheats, and then she picks the other, and then she cheats, and kind of like So it's just a girl's Yes, it's very much the girl's emotional roller coaster just >> She's finding herself.

[00:48:14]>> hurting the guys.

[00:48:16]And I don't think you should find that kind of thing entertaining.

[00:48:20]>> Yeah.

[00:48:20]>> I don't think that's healthy.

[00:48:22]>> Stop kicking guys.

[00:48:23]>> Yeah, don't kick puppies.

[00:48:24]>> [snorts] >> They're innocent.

[00:48:26]>> I don't think they're not innocent.

[00:48:28]Don't kick puppies.

[00:48:31]Okay, so is there anything else on like the big books?

[00:48:36]>> We don't have a huge list because it's not something that we really wanted to explore in depth.

[00:48:41]>> No. [laughter] >> So we mostly mostly have like seen the ones that have hardcore circulated.

[00:48:46]>> Yeah, the really big names.

[00:48:48]>> Cuz >> [sighs] >> my Instagram goes, "Oh, you read books.

[00:48:50]Look at this." And I go like, "Not those."

[00:48:52]>> I don't know if those are bad books.

[00:48:53]>> those.

[00:48:55]>> I sometimes get like, "You want Kafka?"

[00:48:57]I'm like, "Yes."

[00:48:57]>> You're like, "That, yes. Yes, [laughter] that one."

[00:48:59]>> Do I want Hunting Adeline? No. That's a burn-it book.

[00:49:03]>> Yeah, light it up.

[00:49:04]>> Some books ought to be burned.

[00:49:05]>> You know, you're very anti-burning books with exceptions.

[00:49:08]>> I'm so pro burning bad books.

[00:49:10]>> Mhm.

[00:49:11]>> Have done it, would do it again.

[00:49:13]>> Yeah.

[00:49:13]>> Very fun experience, actually.

[00:49:15]>> Yeah, it's kind of fun because we own We own a lot of books.

[00:49:19]So we've got our whole scale of book ranking just by how we treat the book after you finish it.

[00:49:25]>> [laughter] >> Burn it.

[00:49:26]>> Cuz there's like You're like You're like put it on a holy part of the shelf.

[00:49:30]>> Mhm.

[00:49:30]>> It's like our top tier. It's like, "I want this to be in my view and easily accessible."

[00:49:35]>> Wood House?

[00:49:36]>> Yeah, Wood House, some Pratchett, Lord of the Rings, Lewis, all the good stuff.

[00:49:41]Holy place on the shelf. And then you've got the kind of like put it somewhere relatively accessible. There's the throw-it-anywhere.

[00:49:49]So it's like, "I'm not I'm not get rid of it. Maybe I'll look for it again."

[00:49:52]But it's just it's got to be on any shelf.

[00:49:53]>> for it again, you will not find it.

[00:49:55]>> Yeah, it's like it's got to be on any shelf. And then there's like throw it in a box. And it disappears of just like I don't need it even on a shelf. Like just I'm not going to chuck it.

[00:50:07]There's like >> There's chuck it.

[00:50:09]>> There's chuck it.

[00:50:10]>> Then there's burn it.

[00:50:11]>> burn it.

[00:50:12]>> The most fun out of all of them.

[00:50:13]>> The most fun, but it has to it has to suck pretty hard.

[00:50:17]>> To be honest, I did not get a physical copy of Shatter Me.

[00:50:21]>> So you couldn't burn >> So I couldn't burn it, but if I could if I would have.

[00:50:24]>> Yeah, it's too bad. See, this is the problem with ebooks is that you can't burn them, but then the plus side is that you didn't like have to buy it necessarily.

[00:50:30]>> Yeah, it's cheap, too.

[00:50:31]>> Yeah.

[00:50:32]>> But yeah, I think Do you have anything else to say about this beautiful book talk talk topic? It's hard to say.

[00:50:37]>> very structured, but it's just like it's hard to structure vomit.

[00:50:40]>> No, we [laughter] did just like I hate this. That was the general gist of the podcast. It's >> So whoever was like, "Do you want to talk about BookTok?" I hope you just wanted to hear us diss it because >> [laughter and gasps] >> To summarize, BookTok bad.

[00:50:54]>> Yeah.

[00:50:54]>> Period.

[00:50:55]>> [laughter] >> That was it, actually.

[00:50:56]>> I'm sure that there's some like corners and subgroups that are less problematic.

[00:51:00]>> No, there's like the classic corners, which even though they might be just be posers, like >> Some of them are.

[00:51:05]>> they still can recommend like, you know, Crime and Punishment, which everyone should read.

[00:51:09]Oh, did we want to do another book club?

[00:51:11]>> No.

[00:51:11]>> Or should I have not brought that up on here?

[00:51:13]>> have brought that up.

[00:51:14]>> Cuz I don't know what we're going to read. We'll think of that for another time.

[00:51:17]>> No, nobody watches the book club ones.

[00:51:20]>> And so does so whiny.

[00:51:22]>> No, I'm not whining. [laughter] I'm just saying I don't >> Stop whining to your audience, Lucia.

[00:51:26]>> [gasps] >> Anywhos, I feel like that about summarizes our thoughts on BookTok.

[00:51:33]>> Yeah.

[00:51:33]>> Like what else? Cheers.

[00:51:35]>> Like >> There's whole corners of it to burn.

[00:51:38]>> Most of it. Do not say you are a reader if that is what you're reading.

[00:51:41]>> Mhm.

[00:51:43]Yeah, now I have to like clarify when I say I'm a reader.

[00:51:45]>> You're like, I read actual books. No, you're like, I'm a snob.

[00:51:50]>> It's like how you said it. That's just how you had got to introduce yourself.

[00:51:52]>> I mean, I would say I'm a reader if I was only reading Calvin and Hobbes and not if I was reading this.

[00:51:58]>> Calvin and Hobbes is Calvin and Hobbes literature as like, you are highly literate and you have a great sense of humor.

[00:52:04]>> Mhm.

[00:52:05]>> Raise your children on it.

[00:52:07]>> [laughter] >> They'll turn out like us, which you know, pros and cons.

[00:52:10]>> Are we good?

[00:52:11]>> Wholeheartedly recommend. You seem like you want to say more.

[00:52:13]>> think I think that's it.

[00:52:14]>> Peace out.

[00:52:15]>> Cool. Cheers.

[00:52:16]>> Come and see the violence inherent in the system. HELP, HELP, I'm being repressed, BLOODY PEASANT. OH, WHAT A GIVEAWAY. DO YOU HEAR THAT? DO YOU HEAR THAT, EH?

[00:52:24]THAT'S WHAT I'M ON ABOUT. Do you see him repressing me? You saw it, didn't you?