“Heads Do Need To Roll!” FURY Over Police Failures & Britain’s BROKEN Justice System | S. Morris

Added: 2026-06-03

[00:00:00]Right now, then, we're going to speak to Stephen Morris who's from the Workers of England Union. Um funnily enough, he wants to talk about Hampshire police uh as well and a slightly different way. Um um but it's Hampshire judicial system, in fact, I suppose you might say. But um Stephen, very good morning to you.

[00:00:18]>> Morning, Mike. How are you doing?

[00:00:19]>> Yeah, okay. I mean, I know that we're going to talk in a moment about that rape case in Hampshire. Um but I but I wouldn't mind your view of what's uh happened today with Nigel Farage talking about the terrible, awful footage that we've all seen now of Henry Noak's final moments with uh the police basically arresting him because they thought he had committed some kind of racial um attack.

[00:00:45]>> Well, I've I've not actually seen the video that you've mentioned yet, so not seen that. But the actual case is appalling. It's just a completely disgusting scenario that we're in.

[00:00:56]Um where somebody's saying I I can't breathe. I've been stabbed. Um the police are just not even doing their due diligence, you know. It's it's clearly negligence in public office as far as I'm concerned.

[00:01:08]>> Yeah.

[00:01:09]>> Um and the police [clears throat] officers need to be prosecuted. Um and the the actions from above, they we don't want the hierarchy uh still being in place who are putting the police officers in these positions where they're more likely to believe somebody who's shouting he's a racist than actually checking on somebody's condition.

[00:01:29]>> Yeah.

[00:01:29]>> Uh they've been assaulted.

[00:01:32]Heads do need to roll for this.

[00:01:34]Um and I I I think it's got to come from higher up. That the I think it was the deputy chief with his speech, he came uh trying to apologize. It was just so gray areas in what he was saying.

[00:01:46]And nobody's going to believe a word he's saying. Oh, I know we're we're we're apologizing for this. We have too many apologies from people in authority and not enough proper action that's going on.

[00:01:57]>> Right. And you and you want to talk about this Hampshire rape case where two teenage boys were sort of excused if you like from from prison sentences as a result of a judge saying even though they'd been found guilty, he did not wish to criminalize them. And one of your points I believe is that you say justice depends on trust, not just on laws. And I think that covers both the rape case that we're going to talk about, but also the No Act case, doesn't it?

[00:02:26]>> Yeah, cuz people aren't aware a lot of them a lot of them may not be aware now the way the judiciary is set up is that the judges are appointed basically on a political ideology they they have to show a lifetime commitment to equality and diversity. They've also anybody who shows any kind of dissent towards a government is not appointed.

[00:02:53]They've got to look at the sentencing council set by labor and the people who are setting the guidelines for these judges.

[00:03:02]So yeah, the judge everybody's aiming their anger kind of thing at the judge, but you've got to look at what he's operating within. He's he's been appointed on a particular particular position. The sentencing council which is case was case armor set this all.

[00:03:18]They also set the guidelines on what judges can or cannot do.

[00:03:22]>> Mhm.

[00:03:23]>> And they're following those guidelines.

[00:03:25]So the entire system is now been politicized and it's labor that have been pushing this. And this leads on to the other point which is to do with doing away with jury services.

[00:03:37]Where now you're going to have one person dealing with it from start to finish and you could be sentenced like Lucy Letby did. You know, for something that's very minor and yet people who have done these rape cases Um, get off they get no, no sentences no no prison time.

[00:03:55]And this is where it's all become politicized and people's got to look at behind the scenes of what's going on, not just the judge, but what the judge is actually following. Like I say, how they were appointed, um, how the guidelines are set for them through people like Kier Starmer when he was head of DPP and so on.

[00:04:16]And that's where the problem lies for me. Um, if uh as an example for me for you Mike uh or so we say those in mainstream media, they follow the usually Ofcom rules. If you fall foul of the Ofcom rules, you get pulled up. However, what if they made them rules so stringent uh that you can no longer follow them?

[00:04:37]They're going to be pulling you up every 2 minutes. And that's what's happening here. They've given the judges an a political appointment, sentencing council set up with uh unaccountable, let's face it, they're unaccountable people. Um, and Kier Starmer was at the the head of that one point.

[00:04:55]And that for me is is the biggest concern that people need to look at.

[00:04:59]>> Yeah. I mean, supposedly now um Lord Hermer, the Attorney General, is going to, you know, possibly launch some kind of judicial review or he's been asked to look at the sentencing of these kids.

[00:05:09]Um but that shouldn't have to happen, should it? I mean, the trouble for me is that the for a long time it seems the judicial process in this country has been very skewed towards, you know, people like the Howard League for Penal Reform who seem to think that putting people in prison doesn't work. So, therefore, let's not bother. You know, we've got the Green Party now saying things like, [clears throat] you know, let's let's shut prisons down and just let everybody out because, you know, obviously it doesn't work. You know, and there is some truth to that, but at least when you've got dangerous young men or women locked up, they can't do any harm to anyone.

[00:05:45]>> Well, prisons prison was originally there to be a deterrent. People were supposed to be afraid of going to prison and and that's no longer the case now, you know.

[00:05:53]If if a criminal's struggling to get by and they're doing all kind of robberies, you put them in prison, what's going to happen? They're going to get three meals a day, TV, and and all the luxuries going which they wouldn't get outside.

[00:06:05]So, the actual entire system does need looking at. The problem we've got at the moment is the people that are looking to do like judicial reviews are all politicized. They're following a political narrative of currently the Labour Party.

[00:06:20]Yeah, the Conservatives was in for 13 14 years, but they were only Conservative in name.

[00:06:26]They were They were more like a light red than blue.

[00:06:29]>> Yeah.

[00:06:30]>> And the problem is it does need a major change. And people will get angry at these. I was really surprised with the Noak case where they took so long to release that video footage. Actually, I've not actually seen it yet and I do have concerns of how long they took to release that footage.

[00:06:51]And the more people see that, going off what you've just said, are going to become more and more angry with what's going on.

[00:06:57]>> Yeah. Because it is such a horrific um very very clear example of police getting it completely and utterly wrong.

[00:07:07]And and as we now know from what Nigel Farage said, um it's also the fact that police [clears throat] are being told now to treat situations differently depending on who's involved in them.

[00:07:19]>> Yeah. I don't know how the father's his speech yesterday I don't know how he could be so calm really.

[00:07:28]There's no way I would be that that calm. I've got an 18-year-old son and if that happened to mine, I I wouldn't be like him.

[00:07:36]And I I believe many of people wouldn't be like him.

[00:07:39]>> I know.

[00:07:41]Well, I said the same last week when I met Emma Webber for the first time, you know, who's Barnaby Webber's mother, who was the victim in the Nottingham attacks. And she was extraordinary. Um but she said, "Look, you know, we we obviously have a public face because she's been at the inquest all of last week." And I think she'll be back there at this week for a couple of days. But she said, "You know, we have our moments when they're about as dark as they can get."

[00:08:05]And I'm like you, I've got teenage uh son.

[00:08:08]Um you can't imagine it. You just cannot imagine it.

[00:08:12]>> No, it it's is a a frightening scenario to to be in, and I wouldn't like definitely wouldn't like to be in their shoes. The only thing we we've got to make sure now is um they've kind of got justice for the person we Funny enough, we've not had the sentencing yet as far as I'm aware uh on um what prison term he's going to be getting.

[00:08:32]Um it may he may end up being there a light one and you and what, 15 years he might be out uh living his life back to normal.

[00:08:40]>> Are you talking about this uh the the the no I get it.

[00:08:42]>> The culprit, yeah, the victim.

[00:08:43]>> Yeah, no, he was sentenced yesterday, but he was sentenced to to less than what the maximum would be because uh he's been sentenced to I think 21 years in prison um which >> out in just around 12, 13 years, Emma.

[00:08:57]>> be. But again, that's uh Nigel Farage is asking for that sentence to be reviewed and looked upon because there could be that uh he should have been sentenced to more than 25 years and in certain circumstances because of the aggravated nature uh of what he did by lying to the police and by uh chasing um Paul Henry when he was already injured and because of all this stuff that went on with the family. I mean, he could go for more than 30 years, which I think would be more appropriate.

[00:09:22]>> I've always believed life should mean life. That's that's that's it, you know.

[00:09:26]Uh but the the issue here now is to get justice against those in authority who have basically made the police operate the way they they have.

[00:09:39]Both we need the police officers to be investigated and if appropriate action is done, disciplinary actions and dismissal.

[00:09:49]And we need those in authority held into account. We need to hold them. And this goes right the way up. How far does it go up?

[00:09:58]You know, we need to find out the if it's come down from the sentencing council to the judges and and the police are then being told by the police hierarchy of what they need to to be following.

[00:10:09]>> Yeah.

[00:10:10]>> But police should not be worried about um somebody saying, "Well, he's a racist."

[00:10:16]So what? The guy was dying on the floor handcuffed. You know, they they really should be done for for gross negligence.

[00:10:25]>> Yeah, absolutely right.

[00:10:27]Now, I mean people might might not know much about what it is that that you do at the at the England the Workers of England Union. So tell us a little bit about about that, Stephen, in terms of what what sort of work you actually get involved in.

[00:10:40]>> Well, we're an independent trade union, so we don't affiliate to any political party.

[00:10:45]And I know there's issues at the moment with the government um kind of funding the other other unions back with the figure was around 37 million. We don't cost the NHS anything. We don't cost the other public authorities anything. We don't use workplace representatives.

[00:11:03]So as an example, one book bear for me is facility time where the other unions cost the NHS 80 over 18 million pound in the 23-24 period.

[00:11:13]We don't use workplace reps. We're we're completely independent. But we take on cases from all kinds of places.

[00:11:20]So we we are very much an advocate for free speech. We will take on people's issues on free speech.

[00:11:26]Although the biggest cases at the moment is redundancies and that's due to the economic climate that themselves. And that's not just in the in the private sector. That's also in the public sector. The NHS is going through massive restructures where people are either being redeployed, made redundant. And it's the economic scenario that that we're left in with labor.

[00:11:48]Um So, from our point, we we act very much like a solicitor's firm but under trade union regulations. Some an employee comes to us and tells us what their issue is. We look to to get it sorted. And we have had some really good cases going back to like the COVID era.

[00:12:02]We were the only union standing up.

[00:12:04]Uh really for people who couldn't or didn't want to have vaccines. Uh free speech one is a good one that's going on at the moment.

[00:12:13]Currently dealing with a case where an employee's [clears throat] being done for replacing a flag on a flagpole at council building with the England flag.

[00:12:21]>> Yeah.

[00:12:22]>> And they're trying to discipline him for for that. You know, um and the issue is obviously he replaced a flag that had already been flying. And because he replaced it, they're being done. So, there's all kinds of things going on at the moment.

[00:12:40]And because we're a general union, we will cover people regardless of what they're they're going on. Now, I know people >> people come to you if they're not actually in your union and hope and get represented?

[00:12:50]>> Yeah, we we we're probably unique in the in the ex- We was always set up to help employees. So, yeah, we want people to to be members. We want them to join.

[00:13:00]But if they come to us and say, "Look, I've never had needed a union before, but suddenly I realize I need one. Can you represent us?"

[00:13:07]Most unions will say, "Well, you've got to be a member for 3 months."

[00:13:10]We will say, "Okay, we will represent you, but you need to pay the annual fee for membership, which is 145."

[00:13:18]We will then represent them at their disciplinary or their appeals and guide them through an ACAS process if need be.

[00:13:24]Because we don't want employees to be left on their own. That That's the problem.

[00:13:30]>> Yeah.

[00:13:31]>> And there's many of them suddenly come to us. I didn't need When I first got into trade union stuff back in 2001, it was um I didn't need a union till 2010.

[00:13:43]Uh and I was a branch secretary of a union at the time on public transport. I just took it on cuz nobody else was willing to.

[00:13:47]>> Mhm.

[00:13:48]>> So, people can come to us and say, "Look, I've got an issue. Can you assist us?" And and we'll we'll assist them because no employee should be left Bearing in mind an employee is going into a meeting with uh an employed HR advisor and then a manager and they will have a legal team behind them that will check on everything. An employee going in on their own with no representation um shouldn't shouldn't happen. You know, they need people and that's what we allow them to do.

[00:14:17]Um And we go to >> Okay. And how do people get in touch with you, Stephen, if they need to?

[00:14:23]>> Well, they we I suppose we're one of the few ones that still have a telephone line where we have actively people who answer it and who can guide them or they can go to our website uh which is workersofengland.co.uk.

[00:14:36]And that way um like I said, they they can phone up, they can get advice, guidance. Uh we send them on to an appropriate way. And because we don't use workplace reps, what we do we actually allocate it based on um their particular issue. So, if it's data protection, we have a particular rep for that. If it's health issue, we have particular medically qualified personnel to deal with that.

[00:14:59]Uh so, we pick the appropriate rep where a workplace rep will only possibly know about certain workplace policies.

[00:15:06]Uh we our reps know about employment law, which means their employment law overrides a policy.

[00:15:12]>> Yeah.

[00:15:12]>> Um And so, yeah, they can easily get in touch with us by our our phone number, which is or the Workers of England um >> Okay.

[00:15:24]>> Really, we >> we are unique in in what we do. Although we're called the Workers of England Union, we we do represent in Wales as well. Uh we do have a sub-branch for the Workers of Wales Union.

[00:15:33]Um for that one. Um the the And that's only because the judiciary is the same in England and Wales. Scotland is slightly different on tribunals.

[00:15:43]Um on that one.

[00:15:44]>> Okay. All right. So, well, good to talk to you. Thanks very much indeed for your taking your time. Um that's Stephen Morris, Workers of England Union. If you need help, they look like they might be able to do uh something for you if you're having trouble in a particular workplace scenario or otherwise. Um lots and lots of talk to be still done on the Mandelson front because that story hasn't finished running yet. All over the front pages of the papers today. We'll play some more clips coming up shortly. But first, let's get some news.