While the historical insights into Roman coinage are genuinely enlightening, the attempt to map ancient currency debasement onto modern culture wars feels more like ideological projection than rigorous analysis. It effectively uses numismatics as a convenient mirror for contemporary anxieties rather than exploring the unique complexities of the past.
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Ancient Coins & Modern Culture Wars: Is Rome Burning AGAIN? | Jeremy Ryan Slate & Dean KinzerAdded:
[music] [music] [music] [music] [music] Heat. Heat.
>> [music] >> You let one ant stand up to us, then they all might stand up. Those puny little ants outnumber us 100 to one. And if they ever figure that out, there goes our way of life. It's not about food.
It's about keeping those ants in line.
That's why we're going back.
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Let's ride.
[music] [music] >> [music] [music] [music] [music] >> Oh, hey guys. Hey guys. Welcome to the new week. [music] New week. Same life.
It is 6:5. No. No, it's not. It's 7:01 over here. It's still 6:59 over here.
[music] Jeez Louise, what's going on now? Anyway, I just wanted to thank you guys and gals for hanging out with me.
Oh, it's 655 on my road cer. [laughter] You remember when we would have sync issues like that and every once in a while we would achieve equilibrium balance. All the clocks were the same.
That's not the case. But you know what?
It actually is apppropo because I feel like that there's like several realities converging into one [music] right now.
So, you have to imagine there's going to be a little bit of discord with the clocks like there's discord with everything else. And um and we're going to get around to what we're doing tonight, which is going to be really great. I love especially that it's going to be a nice show and tell kind of an evening. We have a wonderful guest in studio and a guest joining us on the phone in just a few uh moments. So, I want So, first thing I want to do is I want to uh I want to thank my sponsors tonight and that is of course ketobrains.com.
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This is not 5 hour energy in the in the the gas station or anything like that, okay? It's not those cheap dick pills or anything like that that that is half of the internet at this point. It's just a delicious creamer with no sugar, no dairy. It's not going to cause any inflammation. You just put it in your coffee, your tea, your smoothies, your yogurts, protein shakes. You get creative with it. Whatever the hell you want. [music] Use promo code May. You get 15% off. Not only going to get 15% off, but going into this this raffle, but you're also for tonight and tomorrow, Molly is going to send you the uh keto hot chocolate as a bonus. You're getting a couple of packs of those, which I'm hearing great things from you guys in the audience already. So, tonight and tomorrow, if you go and you use that promo code for anything at ketobrains.com, you're getting that hot chocolate. Let me know what it what it I haven't even gotten my sample yet. Many of you have already had it. So, let me know what you think about it. Anyway, that's all I got to say. Good partners over there. Good partners. And uh another good partner, good friend of mine. I'm so happy to have him back in the studio. Damn damn am I happy. It is Jeremy Ryan Slate. How you doing, man?
>> Hey, man. Good to be here.
>> Oh jeez. I feel like it's been forever.
>> I think it's been like 2 years since I was here. Uh last year I was on when the LA fires were happening. And uh >> but you were in LA.
>> I was in LA when the fires were happening. I was actually like live from the IKEA parking lot. Um but yeah, it's been two years since I've been here.
>> Two year I mean Well, you did you spent a couple of months out there on the West Coast, right?
>> Yeah, I was living out there for like a year. We were working with some directors and some other stuff which is cool. It helped me a lot with my home setup. and if our videos, we've leveled them up dramatically by having the right help. So, uh, it's been good, man.
>> Speaking of your videos and all that stuff, it has just been so great to see you guys really just layer like like just get yourself deep into the ancient history niche and just corner that market. You do it so well and it it's not like it's not even like a escapism anymore. People always say, you know, study the past to understand the future or the present. It's never been more real now because I really think that we are in as you would probably say uh several several call several signs are are very evident that we're in a collapse cycle.
>> Yeah. Um, we don't know what what do you think it might be unique about what we're going through right now as a civilization primarily for the reason that we have something that we haven't had before and that is the ability to communicate people to communicate that central messaging is >> you know for the most part destroyed.
>> Yeah.
>> What do you think that will do as far as work in our favor?
>> Well, it's technology is good and it's bad, right? Because it takes both problems and fixes one and accelerates the other. When you look at civilizational collapse, people haven't had the ability to to communicate, to organize, to do a lot of the different things that you would do when things aren't looking good or when you notice things. I would say the other side of it that accelerates things is I know we're going to talk a lot about coins and things tonight, so this is kind of perfect to bring up, but monetary debasement in ancient times was a coin losing its purity. You know, the silver percentage would drop or, you know, maybe gold wouldn't be in circulation, whatever it might be. But now everything's computer-based, man. So the speed is so much faster with how we destroy our money. So it's good from the perspective of we can organize, we can communicate as long as platforms stay free because we've definitely seen especially in the last couple years how that's changed. But I think the other side of it is the speed with which we can do the damage is greater than ever.
>> Yeah, that's a that's one hell of a way of saying it. [laughter] The the speed with which we can destroy our money.
>> Yes, >> it's a lot, man. Well, it's even just like silly things like car repairs. Go get an oil change. You know, it's like double what it was five years ago.
>> Yeah.
>> Or you look at uh you know, car repairs, double what they were. I was going went to the store the other day and I don't even think Oscar Meyer's like good bacon. It's like the cheap stuff. It was like n bucks for a pack of Oscar Meyer bacon. So, it's like you look at that and people tend to say, "Oh, things are just getting more expensive." And that's not really the case. It's that your your dollar is losing so much value every single day that the buying power is going down. So, it's it's really alarming.
>> I was watch I was on Instagram and it is um uh let me see what the hell was it? It was I think it was uh Javier Bardm uh from No Country for Old Men.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> It's that scene from No Country for Old Men where he kind of just sits back and he's just sipping on the bottle of milk.
He's just having he's just having himself a sip of milk, but he's always just like I don't know expressionless. I guess you can say he's being >> that 50ft stare. Yeah, pensive whatever the 30,000 foot stair.
>> There we go.
>> Um, and the meme the the form the way that it was used was I think the uh the caption was when I when I sit down and I wonder how why I'm so bad with money but all I had done was just bought groceries. All I had [laughter] all I spent money on was food. Like you know and I understand I I understand that. I mean first of all you got four kids.
Well, I so I was literally having this conversation with my wife two nights ago, like even looking at our bills, like we're not frivolous. You know, we our mortgage is extremely affordable.
And you look at it what it's like to to take care of a family now and it's it's really expensive. And I think that's the the hardest part about it is people are going to stop having kids and it's it's happened already, right? And because they can't afford things. So that's a big concern.
>> It is. I mean, you think about this. I know that you just had your fourth, which by the way, congratulations. All girls though, no boys yet.
>> That's same with me.
>> And my wife tells me my chance for a boy is over. So I I guess four is the final number. My My buddy says I'm like one away from like a WNBA starting lineup though. So I >> Yeah, Could [laughter] be. Could be. God forbid. You know, I I see I was uh But I was I'm just thinking to myself, I was doing the math real quick. And I know that you just had your fourth, but let's say it's seven years from now.
>> Yeah.
>> And you want to take the whole family to Yankee Stadium. Do you know let's say right now was it was seven years later.
>> Yeah.
>> With today's prices alone, you and your family of six, I don't even want to know what that would be. I between the tickets between a hot dog each.
I I a water a bottled water each. I don't know. You better you better.
>> So we we took the family last year and we went on fan appreciation day. Um which I didn't feel very appreciated cuz Luis Heel pitched. So it's just like walk [laughter] walk. It was terrible.
But anyway, they gave every person voucher for two tickets to a game this year. So, uh, we got like eight of them.
So, it's going to be a fun year from that perspective. I can't complain.
>> You know what they did to me last year?
No. [laughter] No. May Yeah, I think it was last year. When was the eclipse? Was it >> last year?
>> Okay.
I Let me make sure our guest is not here yet. Okay, cool. We're good. I I want to do a proper introduction [laughter] with him. last year there was the eclipse that was rolling through or whenever the hell the eclipse was and I said I'm okay you know what I'm going to do I saw that the Yankee Stadium was advertising the eclipse day at the stadium it was an afternoon game and they were going to have it during the eclipse that was the advertising for it I said that's pretty cool I'm going to bring my I'm going to bring my mom my wife and my daughter to Yankee Stadium for this this Eclipse game everybody they'll get their little sunglasses and in the middle of the game at some point that it's going to be cool. So, I went and I spent I think it was $400 just for the ticket. Really, really not bad for four people. It's it's >> I'll go to an NFL game. It's double.
>> I know. It was I I just wanted to go out of my way. It was in April or something like that. So, it was like my birthday to I wanted to give myself a treat and bring them all out. And I swear to God, man, um about I think the day before the Eclipse game, they said, "We're changing the start time of the game from 300 PM to 6:30 p.m. to avoid the Eclipse, >> but it's not an Eclipse game."
>> I know. I guess I guess they must have thought that this is not going to be safe to have everybody playing while the eclipse is going on. I I I have no clue what the hell what what happened, but it it came down from the top. We're changing the game start time. says, "Okay, well, I have a 7 o'clock show. I guess I'm missing it." I started going.
I called up I tried to call up the stadium. I called up my credit card, my bank. I finally I tried calling PayPal, all that stuff. I forgot how I even cobbled the money together to make it happen. They haven't even sent me a They haven't sent me a voucher for Cracker Jacks.
>> Wow.
>> They they didn't say, "We're sorry. We changed it. Here's voucher for another game." Nothing, man. That was the first game I tried going to since 2019, too.
Well, I'll tell you the way to go though is uh group tickets. You have at least 10 people. They take 20% off the price and they put you I think 308 is the section I was in, which is not a bad seat.
>> No.
>> So, it was like $35 ahead for seats, which is pretty awesome. You just got to bring at least 10 people with you.
>> Anyway, [laughter] I'm I'm I'm glad you got eight tickets. You're going to have a good time, you know. That's it. If you if you find [laughter] any free tickets lying around, let me know.
>> I'll mail you a couple.
>> Yeah, please. Okay. So, so here's what we got. Now, obviously Jeremy Ryan Slate is here at the Jeremy Ryan Slate Show.
Command your brand. We've you've been on for uh you've been on this this might be a handful of times now. Everybody knows who you are, but you know our guest tonight pretty well, too.
>> Dean Kzer.
>> Yeah, he's been on my uh my Roman pattern channel a couple times. We bring him in to talk about coins every once in a while. And actually, um I've done a lot of cool shows this year. And Dean's been the guy that will handpick the coins for me to actually give to hosts.
He's an extremely smart guy. Knows a lot of the story around the coins and things like that. And uh we've been working with him for a bit as well. He's a super cool guy.
>> Well, I thankfully I was able to take some pretty good pictures of these coins that we're going to be showing tonight with my phone prior to the show, so we don't have to worry about things not reading on camera too well. Um >> when you also had some coins that somebody gave you that we actually sent to Dean like a half an hour ago, and he was able to identify them by eye within the last half hour. I'm [laughter] just so everybody at at home in my in the chat room my good friend Wayne Smaldridge who I I email to see where where he's been how he's you know every once in a while if I don't see Wayne in the chat room cuz I can't get into the chat room from time to time so I just try to stay in touch with some of our OGs and I haven't seen Wayne so I wanted to wish him well but Wayne sent me these five coins about eight years ago. They are you're not going to be able I took pictures of them. You're not going to be able to see them that well right now, but I'll you'll see them well in a little bit. And they are all He said, "I I want you to have these. These are old coins. The my friend, he's a collector down there. Um, any questions, give me a call. Wayne's a fantastic guy." Yeah, Wayne's been MIA. Um, that that uh worries me, but I love Wayne. Wayne, as you all know, ladies and gentlemen, Wayne is one of our OGs. When I say OG, he is a mod in the chat room. I think he just turned 92 last year.
>> Oh, that's amazing.
>> Yes. So, I mean, I I'd like to hear from him every once in a while. Um, but Wayne gave me these coins about 8 years ago, and I never had been able to give anybody them to look at who knew anything about co. And just by sending the pictures, Dean knows what these were.
>> Within 10 minutes, we had him. He said, "The the five you have, the first one's Tan." He said, "The third one is Nurva.
The fourth one is Brutus, the assassin of Caesar. The last one is Comeodus. And then he went back and took a look at the second one again and he said that that one is Antonus Pius. So you have three of the five good emperors and pious is the adopted father of Marcus Aurelius.
You got some pretty sweet coins, right?
>> And I and I know about that. So that's crazy.
>> Yeah.
>> And I know Antonyas Pas because of that book I told you I read.
>> Yeah.
>> Um but I mean I guess the re the last test would be him holding these in his hand to see if they're not reproductions.
>> Well, that that's the big thing, right?
Like I know uh we'll have to have them in in studio in the future. It didn't work out this time, but uh that's always kind of the final test is, you know, what do they look like and feel like, but by by visual he was able to identify them as that.
>> Well, I can't wait to to talk about this. Um there's that. Uh let me see here. Um so Dean Kzer, he's an ancient coin expert, just to put it on out there. He should be joining us any second here, I guess. Oh, wait. It's only 7:14. uh ancient coin expert, founder of the Kinser coins. I put the link in the in the description of the episode. Known for helping collectors and history enthusiasts hold the past in their hands.
Dean's journey into ancient coins began after his father's passing when he received his father's extensive collection. He realized there was a gap in the market for trusted ancient coin expertise. As a decorated Iraq war veteran with an MBA, Dean brings discipline, structure, and integrity to the 2700 year old field of ancient coins collecting and education. Why a 27year-old feel? Like is that like right around the time that we see coins being regularly minted for the first time or >> That's more of a Dean question than a me question. Um he would he would know a lot more about that. Um I know he looks at coins all through history. The ancient ones are kind of more of his specialty. Um, but yeah, that's more of a him question than a me question.
>> Yeah, I can't wait to I can't wait to have him on and and talk about this.
He'll be here sometime soon. And um and the and the other thing I guess would be I guess it would just be about how often these things are recovered. like is it as is it still as common to recover an ancient coin like this in any kind of an excavation or if you've got yourself a metal detector and you're out there in Europe somewhere is or somewhere along the Aian way or who the hell knows [laughter] uh you know how like over here in the United States people can spend an entire lifetime collecting arrowheads.
>> Yeah.
>> You know I wonder if it's like that. So, I do know a lot of times what's happening is people are finding coin hordes, meaning they're finding maybe a jar or, you know, maybe some buried coins like that because what was happening is as the money was losing value, people were burying these coins because they wanted to at least have these more valuable coins rather than the ones that were in circulation that weren't as valuable.
>> So, I know that's one way it's happening and they're still finding coins like that all the time. And I know even there's a a couple really great YouTube channels out there about uh the archaeology not just of coins but of ancient stuff like uh As told in stone is a really good one that I I love to check out a lot.
>> Interesting.
>> But there's been even recently in Turkey they discovered a full life-sized statue of Marcus Aurelius. So they're they're finding new things all the time and that's that's the the pretty crazy part.
There was a discovery wasn't a coin discovery. This is about a month and a half ago. I don't know you heard about this. They found in South America a small statueette that was from the period of uh Septimius Seis in the late 2nd century and now they're wondering were Romans actually in South America.
We don't know if that's the case, but it is really interesting of all the discoveries they're making every single day.
>> I love that. I see. I I that's the kind of the stuff I really love. I love hearing that news that that can really be life-changing in a way where okay, well, at least there's a mystery. Who knows if there really was connectivity between western and eastern hemispheres before all of the official stories kicked in.
>> The thing they did say about the seis statue is it was deep enough in the ground, I guess based on, you know, how they look at the different levels of what's historically where that it actually dated to the correct time period. So that's why they're even more curious whether were Romans in South America.
>> Oh, you mean that you mean that uh they dated its >> by its depth in the ground. They actually the time period.
>> That's that's awesome.
>> That's what raises the question.
>> That's pretty awesome. I love I I love [ __ ] like that. You know, that's a lot more uh that's a lot more intriguing to me than like for example, we got this uh I don't know, it was on Fox and a couple other places today. Did you hear about this asteroid that almost uh that is going to snip like come right by us uh in a in a couple of days or something like that?
>> No, I'm I'm more concerned about hemorrhoids. They're coming from everywhere, man. I know that [laughter] that and ticks, you know.
>> Don't even get me started on ticks, man.
I pull 12 off my dog a day and we do a tick treatment on him. But anyway, >> I mean, do I like every night, even if you I I feel like people who are not even in in rural areas are like checking themselves at ticks all over the place at this point. But I mean, they somebody I I saw this report that there was an asteroid uh which is set to make an extremely close flyby of the Earth on on uh it was today. Oh wow.
>> I think something like that.
>> And we survived.
>> Apparently it was only 56,000 miles away from the Earth. So it's like a quarter of the distance between the Earth and the Moon.
>> And they only picked this up >> a I mean I think maybe about a week and a half ago.
>> So they say.
>> Yeah. Now listen, no matter what you are are what you what you believe what you think the capabilities of all this stuff is the fact that the fact that I don't know we would only have gotten a couple of days. What the hell's the point if they could just bring this?
Obviously they're they're not able to see too much in the air. We got Dean is has just showed up. So let me get him over here.
>> I was actually just texting to make sure he had it.
>> No, he's got it. He's got it. I just I wanted to make sure before the show started that we had our time zones right. So yeah, the meteor stuff to hell with it. We got ticks all over the place and now we get to talk.
>> The tix thing is no joke. Like I I did an interview about a year ago with um I can't remember her name, but her podcast is called the Rabbit Hole Conspiracy Podcast and we did something on Alpha Gal syndrome like a year ago and now it's like all over the news with all these ticks. Like it's it's been crazy, man.
>> Look who's here.
>> Look at that handsome.
>> What's up?
>> Handsome. Hello, gentlemen.
>> How are you guys doing?
>> It's great. It's great to meet you, man.
And uh Jeremy and I were just talking about you beforehand and and and putting your bio out there. It's great to have you join the show.
>> Thank you so much for inviting me and uh I'm really sorry. I tried very hard to get out there and uh just things kind of came up, but I'm very grateful that you're having me on and I get a chance to talk about some cool history stuff I love. It's too bad that it wasn't just a couple of weeks ago because you would have still had the option to jump on Spirit Airlines.
[laughter] >> I I was telling Frank before we got started about my flight to San Antonio that they tried to send me to Houston, they tried to send me to uh to Dallas, they tried to send me to Austin. I somehow ended up in Fort Lauderdale and then some eventually made it to San Antonio and a week later Spirit was shut down. So >> I know I know it's all air travel is really expensive right now. Even if you're just coming from the middle of the country, you know, it's not even like coast to coast that flight. But don't worry, one day we will get together and it'll be grand. And you know what? I think we're going to >> I think we're going to do fine here tonight. So, you know, >> Oh, yeah.
>> There's a few things when I was reading your bio, I'd just love to know about this. Now, for first thing I we know you're you're a veteran. Um, >> but when did you start this all your interest in this particular field all stems from your father now?
>> Yeah. about uh uh 10 years ago he passed away. Uh my dad was a very serious collector. I would say autistic in a way that uh loved having things checklisted and organized in a way that made sense to him. Uh and so he collected a ton of things that had, you know, that he could check boxes on. So, baseball cards, uh, American coins, world coins, and because he was such a, let's say, a vehement or active Christian, he was a ordained minister, uh, and was, uh, a preacher a lot of his life, uh, whether he was the, uh, pastor himself or the associate pastor. Um, and very passionate about, uh, you know, Christ and and all that kind of stuff. and he kind of tucked away over time some of uh his neat treasures associated with that which would be tribute pennies and shekels of tire and widows mites uh you know and and when I came across that uh it was mind-blowing to me. It was as somebody that's kind of been in the collector field as somebody who has uh experienced a lot of like antiques and stuff like that who's done a lot of that kind of shopping in the past. Uh, this blew my mind because it's not 50 years old. It's not 100 years old. It's not 250 years old. It's 2,000 years old. Um, and there's not many other ways that you can replicate collecting something that's this neat, uh, you know, that I've ever found. You know, other than chipping little pieces off the coliseum or something illegal like that, this [laughter] is a great way to to Don't do that. Don't >> My grandfather has a chip off the coliseum. I and I remember that that that was kept in a little porcelain jar in my And he and my grandmother.
>> You are so Italian.
>> Well, I don't know where the hell it [laughter] was. I I don't And I wish I knew where it was. Who has that?
>> Yeah, >> I remember that. That was a chip off the coliseum. My grandmother said he he kicked it. He kicked it. It came right off. He they they went out there for like their like a I don't know. It was after the war, so I guess he was just going back and I don't know. Anyway, that's this is interesting because I want to talk about collection. I was Jeremy and I were just discussing about that what what it really what's the main way that these coins are found, especially since like you said this is a this is a journey that these little bits of of uh of metal, all types of metal that have they have traveled hundreds of years, sometimes thousands.
>> That's just that's just incredible. So 10 years of you doing this, picking up where your father left off. Is that when you're your researching on this matter started or did you pick up what he was doing prior to his death?
>> Basically, uh, so I knew all about his baseball cards, you know, when I was a kid. I memorized all that kind of stuff.
So I knew all his baseball card stuff. I knew all of his American coin stuff. um he did have some research on some of these ancient coins, but a lot of them he just basically had in a sleeve. And so I kind of set about I was like this must be a hobby that more than you know a handful people know about. And so I went out and tried to find whoever else was in the industry. And I was very fortunate that I found um some really good Facebook groups with uh you know and I don't say that lightly. I know there's a lot of bad Facebook groups uh but there there are very good Facebook uh book groups in the collecting community in ancient coins uh where a lot of these guys have kind of built this uh you know 10,000 person group uh where all of these experts know about these coins and so I started asking questions and made relationships with people uh and started to learn about it and then in parallel I studied like crazy uh I probably listened to you know 300 400 history books driving back and forth to work over the course of 5 years. Uh just really digging into what I thought was important and what I thought was relatable uh for people who found interest in this. We obviously are not as closely connected to the Roman Empire as we are to colonial America. Uh but there's certainly a lot of transition and translation between the two. And I guess kind of the focus is try to how do we connect, you know, people who maybe only look back 250 years as opposed to uh a thousand or 2,000 years.
>> Well, you know, and Jeremy, maybe you can you can roll on this one, Jeremy, but there are plenty of people out there who will say perhaps there are more connections in in all things uh that is contemporary and ancient than is even really, you know, the attention being brought to it. for example, just being able to handle some of these coins to see how we print money, how we print faces. I mean, there's a lot of thing the the the eagle, the uh the olive branches, the of course the way that we we uh constructed Washington DC and all of our capital buildings across the country. There's a lot of romantic um henistic classical tie-ins to the ancient world that are really underspoken but are very obvious once you start reading a little bit. So how go ahead on that?
>> Well, sure. Yeah. Oh, go ahead, Jerry.
>> No, go for it.
>> Well, what you know, so basically, you know, I mean, if you take a look at an American coin or I would I would use the British example, uh the coins with uh are the new king on them. uh basically stylistically and you know Latin wise they're pretty much the same thing as a Roman coin. you know, it has the legends around it. Uh, it says Rex, you know, king. Um, and it follows kind of a similar suit, but you know, in large part, a lot of our traditions, our our kind of coinage history comes from Greek and Roman coinage. And, you know, our uses of like Libertas, right? Uh, liberty, that is something that Brutus used. I think uh there was a Brutus coin, >> one of one of the coins when we were looking at him before, Frank, it says Libertas on the outside. That's the Brutus coin. Yeah, that's one of my coins.
>> Yes.
>> Uh uh let me see here. Hold on a second.
This is I want to >> I want to get it. I don't think this is it. Uh >> no, >> wait, >> it is this one right here.
>> Yep. That's That's Brutus.
>> This is the libert. So this is this is we're talking Brutus. The Brutus.
>> The Brutus.
>> One of the assassins.
>> Yes.
>> Yep. He was a moneyier. uh that was a uh uh a job in the Roman uh republic and uh his his he he's he's a very interesting guy. He minted coins in 54 BC and so there's a couple of them that he minted and uh his call his his call was back to the republic to liberty right to um not having a empire or an emperor type of thing because he was very strong in that uh and that's why his coins have that.
And then another type from his uh series from that time period also had his distant relative uh with the same name uh who helped export or kick out a king uh >> Tarquin the proud >> previously.
>> What's that Jeremy >> Tarquin the proud? Tarquin Superbus.
>> Yes.
>> See I'm swimming in history [laughter] tonight. This is great. I love this.
>> So >> So yeah, that's a a Roman daenerius. uh a Roman uh Republican daenerius minted by Brutus in 54 BC uh and was probably in large part printed for or minted for you know uh uh Julius Caesar's war in Gaul. Uh Marcus Brutus was uh was a part of that. Uh he was a cavalry officer if I'm not mistaken. Um but yeah, that that is uh a really neat piece of history that uh means quite a bit to me, you know.
>> I mean, you see here's this is what I'm talking about. I mean, like, and as I had told Jeremy before, I guess the the final piece of the puzzle here would be you being able to actually physically handle them and tell me these are not reproductions. This is actually real.
Um, but that is a pretty impressive uh gift that I I've just been having around until I knew somebody that can take a look at them. And you know, I stack silver, although it's a it's it's all about melt value. It's the, you know, even though it's about melt value, there is also this obsession of mine with the time travel aspect of collap of uh of collecting something that has been, you know, all over the world traveling vast distances. That's one thing for a quarter m minted in 2001 to have gone from one side of the country to the other. It's another thing for something to have traveled thousands of years.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> To get to you. So, which coins of your collection or let's say what was the first coin that made you feel that weight of history like wow I I this traveled all this time and here it is. I mean the one that you just told me here we're talking BC. I mean that that just kind of made me feel a little bit of like a >> wow.
So what was that for you?
>> I by the way I'm reading a Roman history book with my kids right now and I had to explain to them the the concept of BC and AD. very confusing to explain to a child but anyway go ahead.
>> Uh so the the as you mentioned it's very interesting you mentioned the the the hands that have touched it and all that kind of stuff. My dad was a big big believer in coins this old being worn um because he thought it was more interesting for him to think about the number of hands who held these coins at that time. So his eye for sharpness and stuff like that wasn't necessarily his primary feel. it was more about the where and how how it existed currently and what it what it took to get there.
Um, one of the the the coin that stopped me in my tracks right off the bat was the tribute penny. Uh, that was one coin that he had uh a number of and that's a Tiberious Daenerius which is uh about 80 years newer than your Brutus daenarius.
uh and that is often attributed to uh what Jesus said in the parable render unto Caesar what is Caesars's uh you know when he went to the temple and that that coin while you know it it it's sketchy whether that's the the real deal it meant uh it meant quite a bit to him and it meant quite a bit to me and that's actually a uh you know a coin that's around pretty frequently it's not a impossible very expensive out of reach coin that's a coin that you can buy because they minted a lot of them. Uh and uh you know, I mean, you could get yourself a a you know, a very good one or a fine one or whatever uh for a couple hundred bucks and then they go up, you know, up to a,000 if they're really nice and stuff. Uh but very affordable, very reachable. But you know to think about how history you know how much history is tied to uh a single little silver coin and then the meaning you know I mean if you show that to somebody and say hey you know this could be the coin that Jesus talked about uh you know rendering unto Caesar and and you know it just blows people's minds.
>> Yeah. Well it's it's mindblowing. I there's nothing else to say. I you know I so what what can you tell us about the the process of collecting all these obviously there are many ways that these these things are collected over the years there's treasures there's just things that are handed down I mean exchanges there could be uh preservation uh programs from one country or another but as far as the the frequency of these just being found now or if somebody going like over here. You bring your metal detector down to the beach and you pick up a couple of maybe mercury head dimes or something like that. How often are these still being found incidentally?
>> Daily.
>> Wow.
>> Um so there are countries that are very pro um you doing metal detecting like England. England is a big supporter of you kind of going out and searching. Um you know with with a lot of countries they require a registration. Uh, so you kind of submit the coin that you find and then if it's determined, you know, and and they I'm sure they have all the British Museum has pretty much every coin that ever existed. So what um, you know, they kind of look at if it's a oneoff or something like that and it's impossible to replace, but then after they approve it, you can sell it. So there is opportunity even still. And then if you go on Instagram or YouTube, there's all these detectorrists in Europe and England that are still digging up these coins to this day. Um, and it's it's not totally uncommon when you think about how coinage was stored 2,000 years ago versus how it is now, right? Obviously, no banks. Um, and so anytime that you had any kind of money, uh, and you wanted to hold on to it, you dug a hole in the ground, >> um, and you put it in a jar or or, you know, a container of some kind and, uh, then you forgot about it or you died or, you know, whatever of a plague that all kinds of things happen. So, there's still quite a few coins that are underground still being unearthed. Now there are some rules uh about you know certain countries do not allow the export of these these kinds of coins like Turkey and Syria and stuff like that but generally speaking uh in large part even places like Israel allow the sale of these as long as they're registered. So there is a uh there are coins being found every day and brought to market for sure.
>> W Jeremy, anything you got?
>> Well no the question I would have and I'm just curious maybe you know this maybe you don't. Are there countries where more coins are found more often?
Because obviously we know, you know, the Roman Empire was vast and and kind of the Greek Empire was vast as well, but are there are places where there's coins being found more often and and from what time periods?
>> Uh, so, you know, I I would say that probably the Levant is probably where a large portion of the coins come from.
>> For people that might know not knowly, where is the Levant located?
>> Syria, Israel. um basically the uh most east coast of uh the Mediterranean.
Okay.
>> And um so there are a number of coins that are still being uh brought up out of the Middle East and stuff like that, but um they're everywhere. Uh and and you know they they uh do get turned up on a regular basis.
>> Is there a time period we're seeing them more often from? Like you know the first century, the second century, the third century like like what are what are we seeing more often of? Or maybe that isn't really a thing. Um, I I think I think it's a case- by case basis. I think uh a lot of times they'll turn up, you know, 3rd century or fourth century bronze and a a huge sum of uh uh coins or whatever. But uh I would say those are probably the most frequent although Greek coins uh come up a lot particularly in the Middle East and stuff. Um but yeah, for sure they're I I would say it's sporadic. However, whatever gets found is found, you know, at whatever time. One of the things um that Frank was asking me before we started here, I'm like, I don't know.
That's totally a Dean question. Is we look at how long human beings have been using coinage.
>> Oh yeah.
>> How how long can we can we date that to and and I guess kind of what do we know around how coinage has changed? Go ahead.
>> No, it was more so based on that that that point in his bio about 2700 years.
I wonder if that was a if that was some sort of a a benchmark for, you know, what we would consider, I guess, modern coining uh or something like that. So, what's the 2700 year significance? Is that is just that as far as uh the the oldest relic you've you've handled or is that something in particular?
So, uh I think universally the I think the the coin coins were first minted in about 650 630 BC.
>> Okay.
>> Um in Ionia >> uh which is western Turkey now um but used to be kind of Greekish.
Um and uh so they created electrum coins, the first coinage. Um and so electrum is a mix of gold and silver. uh and I think at the at the beginning when they first discovered these they thought that people or the mentors intentionally made them electrum but then there's a lot of school of thought that now maybe the electrum was naturally occurring in that area and that's why uh they chose to use that rather than specifically gold or silver. Uh and so that's the first kind of coinage that was minted.
They're they're basically globs uh little round dots essentially of electrum. Uh and they're very interesting because very quickly you can see at what pace people were trying to copy or counterfeit or rip off uh those early coins because they trans they changed over time very quickly, right?
So they went from a glob that was very easily reproduced, right? to something where they drew striations across it so you couldn't replicate it until they figured out how to replicate it and then it became artwork and then it became something else. Right. So yeah, you're pointing out these these old hect they became artwork one because Greek cities were very proud of their heritage and wanted to represent that outward. Um but two, it's hard to counterfeit uh something that's a piece of fine art. uh you have to have somebody that's able to carve a die in a way that an artist does, which is not easy. And so it's it's it's a little bit of both. It's a little bit of progression of the coin, but it's also a little bit pro, you know, or anti- counterfeiting.
>> Does uh Cus of Lydia have anything to do with this as well, because I know he's like somewhere in that same time period, and there's always that statement that people make as rich as Cus, but is is there any kind of association him in this coinage? So that's I think that's a I think they used to say that a lot in the 30s, right? I think that was the the where I first heard that from a movie in the 30s. But yeah, >> I've always been told I have a prohibition sense of humor. But anyway, [laughter] >> um so Criesus was a king in Lydia. Uh and he really kind of for he's the first state sponsored coinage manufacturer.
And not only did he that do that, he's famous for bi metallic, meaning that he had multiple different types, silver, gold, electrum. Um, and he also came up with what you would call denominations.
Uh, so he had a bunch of different sizes of these sters that he created in that time period. Um, so that they would be worth based on weight more or less. Uh, and so that he was obviously very wealthy. The Persians knew that and then they eventually came to find him. Um, but yeah, that he is probably, you know, the the early stuff is a lot less organized, but as you by the time you get to Cus and Lydia, it starts to get more organized, more regimented, and better developed.
>> Hey, he's about 550 BC, something like that.
>> Well, let's uh I'd love to hear a little bit more about I you've already gone through a couple of the coins I have. I would love to show this. This is the best picture I have of one of them, and it doesn't look to be Latin to me. It kind of looked uh Jeremy and I were looking at it and he he said >> I am nowhere near a coin expert so I was doing my best. [clears throat] >> I Yeah. So I want I just want to throw this your way. What does this look like to you?
>> Okay. So that's Trejan and Trejan is uh first of all one of the greatest emperors of all time.
>> He's very often debated between him and Augustus who was the best.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. and and as far as a battlefield general and as far as somebody that conquered territory, you would be hardressed to find somebody better than him. Uh he is somebody that liked to have a lot of lettering on his coins, a lot. So often times it will look like a mish mash of many different things. Um usually you're able to tell uh Trajan uh is in there somewhere or Traiano uh with a J uh is in there. Uh but then each one of the the preceding letters and uh before and after are uh you know kind of what would I call them? Um shortened versions of longer words, right? So they'll have imp which is imperator which means successful general. Um they'll have avg or aug for Augustus. He is the senior.
He is the primary emperor. um they'll have uh you know one of the kind of I guess you could call it celebratory roles that uh carried on from the Roman Republic was console um and that used to be or previous to the Roman Empire that was kind of a president role. there was two of them um at any given time. And so that role continued on kind of more in ceremonial purposes. But cos that means uh console and then they'll put the number of years after that. At this year I minted this coin was the third year of my console ship.
>> Mhm.
>> Um there's there's others. Let me see here. Well, that that's the thing I struggle with with uh with ancient uh inscriptions as well because I know even if you look at um like some of the temples in Rome like um the pantheon, right? If you look in in the front of it, >> you have to know number one where the spaces and the words are is kind of the hard part. And are they using a full word or are they using um a uh partial representation of works? I know even it's like you know uh Marcus Agrius Grippus son of Lucas made this in the year of you know blank consil ship but you have to know all that to be able to actually read the inscription which is pretty wild to me.
>> I actually uh created on my website a uh a Roman uh legend generator where you can type in >> where you can type in u some of the the the letters you don't understand and they will generate something that makes more sense to you. U because yeah it can be a little confusing. I think a lot of times people see the legends and they're like, I have no idea who this is. But if you look a little bit closer, you can generally see uh the name of the person.
Uh there's not too many coins that uh don't have, you know, unless the coin's off center or really well worn, you should be able to make out some kind of name on there to see who the emperor was. And then if you >> Well, the Nerva was the easy one cuz that I could I could actually read Nerva on there. The other ones I was really struggling with other than the Libertas, but I didn't realize it was a I just think it I think it's so incredibly >> incredibly impressive that just within 10 years cuz you say this been 10 years um there's just been so many emperors so many what and it's one thing just to know the history but to be able to just sightsee these old hunks of metal and be able to pull that up. Um it's it really is something else. Where where is the Nerva one?
Is it is it I don't think this is it. Is it? That's not it. No, >> that's Anton Pas.
>> No, that's the one we just looked at.
>> The Nerva one was pretty easy to read.
>> There's Nerva. Yeah.
>> So, it says Nerva.
>> Oh, yeah. Nerva right here. It's upside down.
>> N E R V A right there up top.
>> Uhhuh. Nerva. Okay. So, it says Nerva. C A S which is Caesar. And then I can't Let's see here. AVG Augustus. I am P imperator.
>> Because the the U and the V are interchangeable in Latin.
>> Yeah. Mhm. Yeah. So, he's just kind of telling you who he is and what what he's great at, uh, and why he's important.
That's what all the the lettering around there is. I was I was telling Jeremy, you have three-fifths of the, uh, five good emperors. So, you have Nurva, Trejan, Antonin, Espas. Uh, to complete the set, you need Marcus Aurelius, and Hadrien. And then you'll have the five best emperors, according to Gibbon, uh, that Rome ever had. How's my favorite emperor by the way?
>> Well, how easy is it to to to come across a a Hrien or a Marcus Aurelius?
>> Go on my website. I got him available now. [laughter] >> Oh, see that's what I talk about. It's incredible. So So you you deal in these, but you will also appraise people's stuff, too.
>> Yeah, I can do that. Yeah, I I've uh the really, you know, the the enjoyable part about this is is that it's just it's all learning for everybody, right? And so once you kind of peel back the onion a little bit, it's an experience for everybody. So, you know, I mean, obviously I've had a lot of time to kind of gather my thoughts. You know, I can look at a image of an emperor and kind of tell you who it is based on coins that I've seen. Those are just stuff you pick up over time. Um, but the reason I do this is because I want to help people find this as well. And so I want to make it easy on you uh not to think of this as some kind of expensive out of this world, you know, collectible that you'll never be able to afford, but I want you to understand that you can own a a coin of Constantine the Great for 30 bucks or 50 bucks.
>> Oh wow.
>> Um it's it's not an expensive hobby because they made a lot of coins. And you not only do you get a coin, you know, just to put in a collection, but you know, for Constantine the Great, he's the guy who legalized Christianity, right? So, how important is that guy to you? The and and it's affordable, right?
You know, you can get it slabbed in a grade uh and feel comfortable about it and spend less than a hundred bucks on a really nice one.
>> Okay, we I have pictures here of now the coins that you sent overnighted to Jeremy. So, I can't wait to get get into this because I want to learn some more about this stuff. Um, >> here here I'll walk these over to you real quick, too, as you have them.
>> Yeah. Okay. Well, the first one I have up here is let's see here. Okay. Here we go.
All right. So, >> Galianus.
>> Galianus.
>> Yes. So, uh Jeremy would tell you that he is one of the crisis of the 3rd century emperors. Uh so when Rome was probably at its lowest point was around the time that he was um emperor uh did not survive long obviously uh but did have a significant reign. Uh and you these coins are kind of interesting because what you're holding there is called a double daenerius a buy double daenerius meaning that it's a bill uh double daenerius worth two daenerius coins. But what do you see about it right away that makes you wonder why?
Because we've looked at a bunch of Daenerius coins. What looks different about that coin?
>> Bronze.
>> It's the color. Yeah. It's dark.
[laughter] >> Yeah. It's not silver anymore. Um, and so it tells a lot about the inflation and the kind of lack of control that the Roman government had at that point because these were minted as worth two silver coins >> and being used as one bronze coin with maybe a little bit of silver in it being issued by the government. So, this is the this is the um the ancient Roman uh example of me being so out of my mind grateful and excited when my grandparents would give me an old $5 bill in 1990 and knowing that that that was essentially a $20 bill these days.
And uh and and that's just what's going on. That the faces are the same. Perhaps it's still the that cotton kind of, you know, printing paper there, but uh here it just has to be a change in metal.
Yeah.
>> An actual change in metal. That's that's >> Well, Galianus is an interesting one, too, cuz I know you can speak more to this team, but he he actually minted a significant number of like commemorative type coins. I I believe he did a lot with uh >> you there's like a zoological collection. So, he was very into >> the coinage he's making. And I'm I'm curious um you know, not to to cut you off or anything, Frank, but I'm curious when somebody spends that much time on coins, does it also tell you a little bit about what they're distracting you from or or what is the thought process there?
>> Uh well, I so he was in a bad place, right? And and uh Frank, you you'll appreciate this. This for collectors, Galenus made a series of coins with animals on the reverse. So there's a series of 10 different animals that you can get. some real, some, you know, mythological, so like a griffin and stuff like that. But there's a a lion.
Um, and so it's called the zoological series or the the zoo set that you can collect. All affordable, very reasonable bronze coins. Um, and they were kind of a plea, right? they were kind of a he is making these animals into the representative gods to show um support and and u from the empire to the gods to help support them. Um and so he he issued these coins. Not I I don't know that you know if they thought about it as a collectible. I know that Augustus was a huge fan of coins, right? Um and some people debate whether he was a collector or not. It's hard to know, but he cared about it very passionately. And that's something that I think a lot of these emperors took very seriously. Um, obviously some didn't. Some basically used the same uh, you know, side profile from the previous guy. Didn't really care. Um, you know, as long as it's close enough and it has my name on it.
But he's somebody who thought about his coinage. Uh, and the reason I share that with you is because this is an affordable double Daenerius um that you can make a collectible set out of. Uh, right before right before who we call uh one of the restorer of the globe, Aurelian >> Rest Orbus, my my second favorite emperor.
>> There you go.
>> Not long after him [laughter] restores the empire.
>> I love this. I I this is just inc. I I can't wait until I know. I know everybody won't be able to see this, but I'm going to hand you my Aurelion coin that Dean gave me.
>> Well, so hold on. So, wait, Dean. So, you're you're this one right here, the uh the the G what is this? The Gal Galilean Galus.
>> This one you're This is a gift.
>> Yep. Yours to keep, my friend.
>> And and and hold on. I This is just This is overwhelming. Thank you so much. But there's another one in my hand right now. Let's just move on to this one because I want to keep showing people what's in in the studio right now. Um this one Dialesian it says.
>> Yes.
>> Is that true?
>> Yes. Uh so another uh so Dialesian is probably what I would consider the kind of the Philip II u predecessor to Constantine. A guy who was he was a soldier general uh who conquered his way into uh leadership roles. uh but somebody who was very uh thoughtful about government and what it could do and what it couldn't do. Uh so he introduced coinage reform. Uh a lot of what he put together kind of changed and helped level out the empire so that it lasted um a period of time longer than it was. Uh you know before him it was very uncertain whether it would survive.
>> Leading up to him there were 26 emperors in 50 years.
>> Wow.
>> Yeah. Imagine if there was that many presidents. I mean, you you would know that the country is in trouble if every two years you have to, you know, replace the government essentially. Um, and a lot of times that was, you know, done brutally, you know, whether they were clearing out the their enemies or stuff like that. Um, so yeah, obviously in a bad place, but Dlesian puts in a bunch of reforms that helped set the government up for longevity. Now, he made some mistakes. Um I think he kind of went to the classical position of you know if if things are problematic who can I blame type deal. He was very aggressive in his persecution of Christians um and all that kind of stuff. Uh so there is some definitely some downside of him but he is somebody a great organizer who successfully ran the empire uh for I guess 20 years and then retired um which is not something emperors ever did. I mean I can think of what like Sullah you know who wasn't even an emperor he was dictator but very rarely did these guys survive long enough to retire um and and move on but Dlesian is one and so this is a >> this is a uh a really nice detailed coin again you can see all around uh the the legends and it should say Dialesian across the top >> it does >> again this is ais double daenarius as well very low silver content in that coin, probably zero. Um, but he is uh somebody that built the tetrarchy, which he realized uh that Rome was too big of an empire to control on your own. Uh, and so he kind of put together like a uh a team of people, including Constant or uh uh Constantine's dad, uh to run the government. And that lasted as long as Constantine would let it, which didn't last very long, but then eventually the two empires kind of began to have an eastern emperor and a western emperor.
Uh, so he's a little ahead of time in his thinking on that. But a great emperor in terms of organization and leadership, but also had a lot of problems in terms of setting price ceilings and floors. Um, and some of the other stuff that he did wasn't so great.
But uh definitely somebody an extremely important emperor who helped keep I think Rome alive much longer than maybe it it would have.
>> And now and now it's sitting inside of a broadcast studio in New York [laughter] in New York in the year 2026. And I I'm just I'm taken it back by it all. And I think >> well historically he's a very consequential character too because um historians the way they look at the Roman Empire. The early Roman Empire is what's called the principate. And that comes from the idea that um Augustus didn't want to call himself a king because Rome's na Romans naturally hated the idea of kingship. So he took the word from principatus or which is what the Roman version of the speaker of the house was called. So that the prince of the senate he always spoke first and he comes up with this term called prinkeeps kiwias or the prince of the city and basically he's calling himself a first citizen. So Rome until 284 which is when dialesian takes over is actually called the principate. Now I don't know if Romans called that but but historically we call it that to show the difference in it. After dialesian Rome becomes called the dominate and that comes from u the father in the Roman household was called the domina or the lord and the difference in the rule from the principate to the dominate is a more despotic more um extreme rule where people had less rights. One of the things that Dialesian actually starts doing and Constantine's actually going to enforce this quite a bit and it's it's kind of the some of it's a a remnant of what happens from the 3rd century crisis. Others are are things that he does but people had started to live on these farms because they couldn't afford to pay the taxes themselves. So they would work on someone else's farm and it's kind of the the early surfom. What Dialesian starts doing is actually locking people in their professions. So if your father was a smelter, you are now a smelter. If your father was a farmer, you are now a farmer. And that's going to be really enforced by Constantine early on. But Dialesian is actually a very consequential guy because the Rome before Dialesian and the Rome after Dialesian is actually a very different system.
>> Wow. I mean this and the in fact, thank you again for the gift. It's it's just uh it's really overwhelming and I I want to move on to other ones here because I mean Jeremy just came over here and dropped >> I brought a whole bag with me.
>> Okay. Okay. [laughter] Well, here, listen. Here we go. Here. This Oh, wait, wait. This is the one I have in my hand right now. This is one you just showed me.
>> This is my second favorite.
>> Okay.
>> So, if if if anybody likes generals, leaders, you know, Eisenhower, all of these important Napoleon types, right? To me, this is one of, you know, the maybe top two or three generals of uh ancient history, right? Or maybe top five, I guess. I don't I get kind of greedy with that. But anyway, he was very successful um as a general. He Rome had broken apart into uh a bunch of different uh I guess provinces, right?
Where where they claimed independent rule. So the Gauls, the GCS uh uh they broke off and had their own empire. Uh this is all happening around the time of Galianus, right? Um and then uh Palmyra uh which is Syria uh broke off as well.
And this is that story is amazing. I I always enjoy the the story of Palmyra because uh it was headed up by a queen Zenobia uh and she >> was her husband Odin first and then then he dies and then she gets the whole thing.
>> That's right. And uh she did a really good job. Uh she broke off the or she had that rule of that area and uh did a really nice job. You can you can buy coins of hers. They're very expensive cuz she wasn't she wasn't she didn't put her face on coins very long. She put her son Valba uh or Vabilis on coins to show that the continuity between her and her son was on par with Aurelian. Um but very interesting the the the empire fractures and this guy over the course of 5 years manages to bring it back altogether and that's why he's given the name restorer of the globe because he quite literally did that. He brought the Roman Empire back together.
>> The detail the detail on this one is just great. You could just you actually see I don't know if that's chain mail or not but it's just uh it's just it's just incredible detail. Um, >> and he does such a good job and they're so grateful that one of his uh subordinates kills him.
>> Yeah. Well, that's that's us [laughter] that's usually the mark of a good run.
That's usually the mark of a good run.
Somebody says, "Thank you for the the work and you're dead now."
>> I I've always wondered like historically like what would the world have been like had Aurelian lived? Because I actually think he's somebody that had the ability to restore what Rome was.
>> Um, but we'll never know.
>> Here's another one for you. Uh this is Probus.
>> Another uh another area or another uh emperor from the a very tough time but also uh I would call him quasi successful uh but not uh longlasting more similar to Aurelian uh in terms of his length. But again these are all you know I mean and and it's funny because the the coinage had kind of fallen apart at this point. So like uh a Galenus is kind of a rough image. You know, the the coin itself looks rough and crude, but still they're minting beautiful coins during this terrible time um with great detail and great imagery. And each one of the backs of these coins represents, you know, some kind of message that they're sending because they didn't have the internet. They didn't have phones.
They had coins that traveled. And more often than not, the message on the reverse was to try to communicate to people what was important, what they're doing that's successful, and how well they will uh or or what they expect to do in the future. And you know, again, just a a beautiful coin. Uh you know, another another, you know, one of the 26 that made it in 50 years.
>> Yeah. All all of my coins you're going to have are from the third century because it's pretty much the only thing I talk about. Well, [laughter] let me let me ask you guys this about uh because we we know about things like aqueducts and we know, you know, essentially what the layout of Rome was like. People have made those extensive models of all that stuff. But as far as the actual mints, you know, when we think about the the the Federal Reserve, we think about the offices, then we think about the actual printing presses.
What do we know about the physical the physical place where this metallurgy comes together with a demand that needs to be able to supply coinage for a vast empire? I I I'm trying to think of what that factory even looks like because it's thousands of years ago. So, I mean, what does it look like?
>> It looks like maybe five guys in a tent is what [laughter] >> it's crazy. That's a >> They have their little dyes and their hammers and they're just pounding away, baby.
>> I hope I hope they're able to keep like every every tenth. I don't know. It's It's uh That's a lot of work, man.
>> They did. They did. Um what I would say is is that, you know, we we think of this giant manufacturing process that we have now, but often times these coins were minted uh on site to pay soldiers, right? um that was one of the largest expenses in the Roman Empire other than building and all that the roads and all that kind of stuff. Um, and so a lot of these mints uh were traveling and and uh so like a lot of Julius Caesar's coinage, you can't pinpoint exactly where he was minted, but it was likely it was minted in Spain or it was minted in Sicily or it was minted in uh you know, wherever in Egypt because he traveled around, but he still had to pay his soldiers. And so he had a traveling mint. Same with Brutus. uh as he was fighting it uh after he killed Julius Caesar uh his mints were all traveling as well uh because he didn't have a a formal site. Basically um you know a guy uh chiseled uh a design a tiny design onto a die, right? Very small steel die.
Um and uh they took these hot discs and just hammered it. And so each one kind of explodes a little different. there's a little bit of different fl kind of carnage on the sides and stuff. That's why no two are the same is because they're all hand struck. And so sometimes the obverse and the reverse face the same direction and sometimes they face opposite directions or you know east and west. Um, there's a it's not a perfect science, but think about the level of craftsmanship it took to to mint your probus to make that image on a small uh uh die that you could hammer and uh issue the coin. It's it's incredible the amount of work. We think about manufacturing a perfect science all that kind of stuff at this point but this was 2 thou or700 years ago in this instance um where they were manufacturing coins as nice um obviously some you know quality problems but as nice as coins in the 1600s or 1700s.
Well, no. Adrien Goldworthy talks about um and I can't remember the name of the the book offhand, but it's his his basically his fall of Rome book, and he talks about, and you can correct me on any of this since you probably you know more about it than I do, but he talks about the dyes. And I guess one of the things the dyes tell you is when uh there's more dyes used in a year, it tells you basically that there are more coins printed that year. When the die gets dull or when it doesn't cut as sharply, it tells you a lot about the amount of coins that were actually created in a year. Is that something that we know?
>> So, yeah, I mean, uh, there are die studies. Um, obviously there's a lot of a lot, you can tell the difference in a a die, you know, somebody that's that's, uh, making an image of Julius Caesar, unless it's being replicated, it might look a little different from one to the other. Um, so they do die counts. They know approximately how many dies they've discovered based on the coins that they've seen. Um, and then you can kind of give a, you know, value to how many coins those could be minted. So, you can kind of come up with rough estimates to, you know, how many coins approximately were minted based on the dies that we know. Uh, in a lot of cases like the ones you're handling, you know, hundreds of thousands or more. See, when I when I and you know, you were just you were just talking to me there and we'll we'll do one more coin over here as well so we can just have some wrap-up questions as well because this just this will go on forever and I and I wish it >> well when you pull that coin I got a particular one I got you to pull then so well let me know when we get there.
>> Yeah, we definitely will. I just put a traan up on on screen. Obviously that went back to at least something that looks like silver. I don't know. But you know when you were talking about the the scientific exactitudes of the printing that goes on now of course that is part of the reason why there are such highvalued American coins out there.
Some of some of the things that have given American currency so much value is because of printing errors. And meanwhile back then because everything is you know by hand it's never going to be an exact science. But any little deviation from a print or, you know, a coin that has a wrong, you know, a letter that is put backwards, something like that, that that can make the difference between it's just a piece of crap or it's worth $25,000. It's incredible. [laughter] >> One of one of the the common types with or I would say common, but more common error types uh in ancient Roman coins is called brockage. And that's one side being hammered through and the other side not having come through at all. So the obverse goes through to the reverse.
Um and so there's only one image on the coin. And there's a number of those uh in different types. And I think they happen, you know, on a semi-regular basis, but they're like that. Um there are a number of kind of error, you know, issues that you can you can figure out.
Uh, you know, there's certain types like um I'm trying to think like the Constantine era um camp gate. There's a a series of coins that have a camp gate on the reverse. And there are different types of camp gates. Even though they were kind of the same, they'd have a different number of towers. They have a different number of stars. They have a different number of levels. Uh each within, you know, one collectible type of coin. Uh so there are variations galore in this kind of stuff. So, if that's something that attracts you, uh, you know, on US coins, certainly there's a lot of that in in ancient coins.
>> I want to talk about these a lot more because I there there are coin channels out there that will go into just uh the most rare things that Americans here should always be on the lookout for um if they ever come across it because I hell, nobody knows what the hell's going on anymore. Um, that that's just what the hell it is. But I um I look at this.
So uh Jeremy, let's let's get to that coin that you do not want to miss. Let's do that.
>> So So Jamie, pull up the Valyan.
>> Okay, [laughter] hold on a second. Let me get that over here. Where the hell is it?
>> This is my favorite coin that I own because of the story behind it.
>> Pro. That's not it. Valyan. All right, here we go.
>> So when Dean >> Well, you notice something.
>> Go ahead.
>> Well, you notice about something about it right away, right? It looks a little bit more silver.
>> Yes, absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> Go ahead, Jeremy.
>> So, the So, when Dean was talking about the empire breaking apart, um his capture is actually one of the big things that causes it. So, in uh 260, he decides he's going to take on uh Shapor the who's running the Persian, what was the name of the Persian Empire at that time? I trying to remember off hand. Do you remember, Dean?
>> Parththeians.
>> The Parth. It wasn't the Parththeians.
was after the Parththeians. Um, >> Cisanians, >> Cisanians, there we go. So, he's running that version of Persia and Shapor the actually captures Valyrian. This is the first time a Roman emperor had ever been taken alive. And there's two different stories about what actually happens to him. But the most accepted one is that he's captured and then used as Shapor's foottool every time he wants to step onto his horse. There's another story that he was flayed and his his body was hung on the wall in inside a mosque. But um there's actually a statue that was made I think in Tyrron in the last 2 years of Shapor being used as a foottool for uh of Valyrian being used as a foottool for Shapor the first. But he's basically the one that Rome breaks apart because uh Galianus doesn't have the will to to basically go get him back.
>> This is incredible.
>> And he's uh what's it called? the yeah I mean the first Roman emperor to be captured uh there were other emperor or uh other statesmen that had real problems in the Middle East um >> well is the first to fall in battle in in 378 but he's the first to be captured >> yeah so captured uh they have that famous like like Jeremy was mentioned that famous piece of artwork in Iran of uh uh Valins being or um >> Valyan in uh what's it called? Uh being the foottool of Shapor. Uh but that did not uh that's not something that had happened. And imagine if it did like you know if if Donald Trump got u hijacked and then just was kept as a slave so to speak um for the rest of his life with him >> with no response.
>> Well, it it show it shows the point that Rome had gotten to that there was no will or no power to even go rescue their own emperor. Like that that shows the dire straits they're in. That's good.
You know, I when I think about this and you you have you own this one.
>> I own that one. Yeah.
>> Well, >> I have it over here.
>> I think I I think about this stuff, guys, and I just Well, let me just ask you about your appraising cuz I have to imagine you've shown up for events or anything like, you know, like a almost like an antique road show kind of a a thing.
>> Oh, he was just at a coin show and he was sending me all these pictures. It was super cool. So, what what were what was the most heartstoppping thing that ever happened to you when you appraised somebody other somebody else's stuff?
I've been on your website to I see some Byzantine coins here that are bronze, but I guess because of the rarity of it is, how exclusive they are, they're like $500 a piece. Like I I can't wait to look through your whole website, but I appreciate that. What was the most heartstoppping moment where you are appraising a coin or something like that and you say, "Holy [ __ ] I've got a unicorn."
>> Oh, uh, let me see here. What was a what's a good example of that?
Uh, so uh, a lot of the early Greek, we haven't talked much about Greeks, uh, here. Uh, Greek coinage is unparalleled.
Uh I would say that it is each one of them are like a work of art. Uh especially in prime helenic uh periods and uh there are uh I don't know if you're familiar with one of Alexander's generals, Talamy uh created uh he he essentially took over Egypt.
>> So Cleopatra is the last of his family line.
>> Yeah, that's right. And uh so he uh he started out minting uh coins with uh let's see Alexander's head on it with an elephant with the elephant headdress um and then started minting coins of his of his own. But the difference between early and later Tommy is the weight standard. And a lot of times the weight standard of the coin uh the the value changes because they're less prominent or they're less available at a higher weight at a certain standard. Um, and so I found a Talammy uh elephant headdress uh that I think was originally listed at like 14.5 grams, but it was actually more like 17 g. Um, made it infinitely more rare and uh worth, you know, a,000 $2,000 more um just because of a couple grams of silver uh because it was minted earlier on uh when they had more silver and they had not changed the uh the weight standard to that point. But that's not something you would know uh just looking at one. Uh you'd have to learn a little bit about it. And that's kind of the things that we turn up a lot. A lot of times people just don't know. You know, that's one of the things that that, you know, I'm passionate about is because they see this stuff and they're like, I have no idea. My great-grandfather got this for me. He was in Italy uh in World War II or whatever. Um you know, the coins that Frank had uh beforehand, right? because he had no idea what he had and he had three of the five good emperors.
>> Yeah, that's right. And Brutus, right? I mean, >> those are those are uh there's Galianus.
Uh there's it it's it's amazing but also very satisfying uh when people find out that they do have something of value. A lot of times unfortunately uh you know when people like let's say World War II or or or whenever they took a trip to Italy in the 70s or Greece a lot of times people buy bought you know fantasy pieces. So, a lot of times people will turn, you know, say, "Hey, this looks like, you know, a $100,000 decadraum from uh Sicily, but it's it's obviously a a crest forgery." And and so a lot of times people get disappointed, but occasionally you'll find something that really kind of tilts the scale in the positive way.
>> When when I when I was a kid, Dean, my dad had this coin and it was so beat up and it was like, "Oh, is this this is the most valuable thing I own?" And we found out later on it was like A SUBWAY TOKEN. [laughter] THAT'S the way it is. That's the way it is. This is the Sometimes the oldest looking thing is just the one that's just been through a really hard time, you know? It doesn't It doesn't matter.
I know. It's like the the Lindsay Lohan of coins. I don't know. It's just [laughter] I just try to think. Anyway, >> he's lived a very hard life and it's been through rehab multiple times.
>> Yeah, it's it was a hard road to 30.
But, you know, that's just that's the man. Oh, I I can't thank you enough.
Now, Dean, tell everybody what they can do, what what's on your your website.
Obviously, you're you are a wealth of information. So, I have to imagine that just storytelling and the preservation of history is always number one, but you have a really incredible um collection of stuff here for people who are serious about collecting as a hobby or whatever else. So, tell us a little bit about the website before we start wrapping up.
>> Sure. So, uh the website is www.kercoins.com. kinserccoins.com.
Basically, I've set it up um so that a person who's never come into contact with ancient coins and sees me on something like this or, you know, just happens to hear about an ancient coin from somewhere uh can look me up and find it. And right off the bat, it hits you with a are you new to ancient coins as soon as you hit the site, right? Um because I want to help steer you in a right direction because a lot of times this can seem very daunting. We just talked about, you know, hundreds of years of history that, you know, uh, you know, takes time to accumulate in your head. What I want you to do is to come to our shop to to check out and learn about them, right? So, I have articles on, you know, who these emperors were and why their coinage is important. Um, I have a podcast with my friend, uh, Josh Benavvento, uh, where we go over, you know, who to buy from, what what risks you have, all that kind of stuff.
It's all set up so that you can take your first crack at buying an ancient coin. You know, I recommend uh, if you're if you're interested, you know, there's widows mites, uh, which is from the Bible. Those can be had for like 30, 40 bucks. Um, and they're incredibly important in history. uh or a Constantine the Great Bronze, which we talked about earlier, which is very affordable. All the coins that I sell uh you know, specifically in the beginner area, are um slabbed. They're graded by NGC, who is the primary source of grading ancient coins. So, they come in the containers like you talk about. Uh usually that costs, you know, whatever 70 bucks a pop just to do it. Uh but if you do enough volume, it goes down considerably. So, I I take that kind of measure so you don't have to worry about uh forgeries or or fakes that you might not be familiar with if you went on eBay or something like that. So, it's a layer of protection to kind of protect you from >> this. Man, if I had an extra $800, this [laughter] this ancient Judea coin set, Time of Jesus, I mean, I this is such a great coin set, I tell you, man. Oh gosh.
>> It's just wild to me to be able to hold something so old, right? like like it's just incredible to to consider that >> just I I listen there is no reason why anybody who just isn't a lover of history shouldn't go to this website just to look around and read because I've I'm it's it's a virtual tool tour tour through a museum at this point this is really something else Dean >> yeah I appreciate that thank you very much and you know I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out what what I can do to try to help because there is a barrier to entry and the barrier to entry is understanding history that goes back 2,000 years. And that's fine. I had to learn it, too. Um, and but I wanted to because it's very Some of the stories about some of these guys from ancient history are just insane. My my favorite guy is Basil II. His nickname was the Bulgar Slayer. That was his literal nickname. Um, because he beat down the Bulgarians so bad that he forever would be known as that. Uh there's just a a a mile long list of these kind of interesting stories that uh boggle the mind. It it it makes me wonder why Hollywood doesn't just take, you know, like the story of Irene and Constantine V 6th where she wanted to wanted the power and so she blinded and then killed her son, you know, to keep power. There are a lot of these very interesting stories that are kind of lost to history and we're I'm just giving you a way to not only learn about it but to physically handle it to physically connect to it.
>> Do you have a Constantine the 11th Paleo Logos in your site or no? The last Roman Emperor.
>> So that's a highly desirable coin.
>> I that's why I asked. It is the final Roman emperor. Constantine the 11th Paleo Logos from from 1453. You know what I love about this year too cuz I I I subscribe to you on Instagram too at Kinsercoins and um it's again your your commitment to just history is I love that this kind of like I took this post from your Instagram. What did it cost to build Rome? And you you break this down and um like for example the coliseum funded largely from the spoils of the Jewish war equivalent to paying a soldier for 25 to 50 million days. It was 100 to 200 million. What does that say? Cesteriy what is it what's called >> a stair sheet bronze coin. If you if you scroll down a little bit, you can see one u the most famous emperor associated Giulianis actually bought the emperor ship um by paying each one of the Ptorian guards 25,000 cisteri each to become an emperor. Uh and then he he bought it and lasted for 66 days before he was killed.
>> Wow. Um, but that that coin is such a neat piece of history because he paid to be an emperor and then in the end uh the people he paid >> what Seus saw at the end of that.
>> What he's cra what's crazy is that of course right over here 25,000 uh cesari uh per pritorian soldier which equated to about 200 million that he had promised to the guard. So, I don't know that if he ever ended up paying the full 200 million before getting capped, but man, you think about all the money that is spent in the United States to run for president. It's actually on par. It's [laughter] actually It's actually on par. It's crazy.
>> Could buy an empire for that.
>> Seriously, >> that's right. The cost hasn't changed.
>> Well, I mean, I I just love this. So, uh, thank you for the information, Dean, and thank you for your your story. The the personal stories are fantastic. And did Didius Giuliani give each guard member a bottle of baby oil as well?
>> Could be [laughter] Diddius.
>> It goes back a long way. Anyhow, okay.
So, uh, kinsercoins.com.
The link is in the description. Dean, I hope this is not the last time we speak.
I Let's do it again.
>> Yes. Even if you can't come here uh in person, which I I know one day we'll be able to get that figured out.
>> Oh, yeah. For sure. We should at least do this again where you can overnight e an even more interesting uh stack of >> treasures and and you know Jeremy will hang in so I can just listen to you guys nerd out and it's a lot of fun.
>> Absolutely. Thank you for giving me a chance to talk a little bit about history. It's it's my passion. It's my calling. Uh I feel like uh you know we I feel like so many people would feel more confidence if they understood more about history uh because it it parallels a lot of the things that that occur from dayto-day. And so you you get a little bit more confidence when you know that people 2,000 years ago dealt with a lot of the same things we did just without the internet. And so >> um it's meaningful and really these coins are a way of those people sharing their stories with you. Right. And so it's like a communication and I think it's a beautiful thing.
>> It truly is. And I hope people check out your podcast and all the resources you have and make friends and I'm looking forward to the next time we get to speak.
>> Excellent. Thank you so much.
>> Have a good one.
All right.
>> Thank you.
>> There goes Dean Ker. That was fantastic.
Wow. You know what? And and I all can I let me just say another uh thank you to you Jeremy because I he Dean is not the first >> great guest and now new friend that I have met through your company command your brand.
>> Well Dean was a friend that I convinced to become a client cuz I'm I'm so nerdy about what he does. [laughter] >> It makes sense for him to link up with you for sure. But you know your your your staff they they they they pitched them to me. I said, "Oh, there you go."
Because there's only so many there's only so many New World Order people you can talk to uh in in one year before you get it.
>> Yeah, but you could have Jay Dy on every week.
>> Oh, yes. [laughter] Absolutely. Why the hell not? I love it. I I hope that I get to have Jay in the studio uh later on this summer. That would be great.
There's a chance that may happen. And uh but but this is this is awesome. the fact that well, first of all, this is the uh the Aurelian, but these two I can't believe I can add this to a small little fledgling collection that's actually not too shabby.
>> It's not shabby at all. And you had no idea till about an hour and a half ago.
>> I had no clue. No clue. No clue. I I um this is just something else. Dialesian and Galanus. Dialesian is interesting too because he mentioned he retired but he retired to Split Croatia which the palace for the most part is still there.
You can actually go see it. It's pretty cool. But he retired there to go farm cabbages.
>> I love it. [laughter] Well, yeah. Farm cabbage. Who else?
There's somebody else who just wanted to become a farmer, too. I forgot what the hell in an American sense. I remember just just left and said, "I'm tending to my George Washington."
>> Oh, I guess Washington. George Washington went back to farming >> and uh I think John Adams did after a while too.
>> He went back to his practice.
>> What about John Quincy?
>> He just he stayed in there forever.
>> Yeah, I don't I think he went the Supreme Court after that, didn't he?
>> After he was president, he went to the house.
>> The house. Okay.
>> Um and you know what, ladies and gentlemen, I these are not ancient, but these are from a friend of mine, Vinnie.
And I'm going to put two of these. These are bronze copper rounds. And I love these because they are um I they are cryptids. Okay. One is the Jersey Devil.
There's the Jersey Devil right there.
And this one looks like some kind of a Yeti. These are copper rounds. I'm putting them into the the super chat raffle for this week along with some Yes Cacao chocolate. And uh I have a few other things that I'm giving away. Oh, I don't know where the hell it is right now, but these rounds, thank you Vinnie, so much. I I saved a couple for myself, but um they're so cool. I wanted to share them. And so super chats, YouTube, Rumble, quite frankly, super chat.com and gold pills on on PL and we will give that away on Wednesday because I'm off Thursday night. I have to go to a Thursday night wedding.
>> They do that, >> I guess. Yeah, it's the first time I'm going to a wedding for my cousin on a Thursday night.
>> All right.
>> So, >> won't be that rowdy because everybody's got to do work the next day.
>> I don't know. These [laughter] these are Italians you're talking about here. I went to an Italian wedding once where everybody wore velour jumpsuits. It was the greatest thing I've ever It was my my my wife's uh cousin got married in an Italian family. They everybody wore velour jumpsuits.
>> What year was that?
>> Uh it was like maybe 10 years ago.
>> Okay. All right. Close enough. Close enough to the Sopranos. That was uh those velour jump. I always wanted a velour jumpsuit after watching the uh the Sopranos all those years during high school and and then uh college because it just looks so soft and nice. You know, Paulie Walnuts walking around with the full-on velour.
>> I still die the episode where him and Christopher are trapped in the Pine Barons. It is the best episode.
>> Which is the origin story of the Jersey Devil.
>> Uh is it really?
>> That's where the the Jersey Devil was born. the 13th child of a I forgot what the but anyway it was the essentially the cursed 13th child of some some lady down there and it is an interesting thing there too because it also has an American history American uh revolutionary war history I think it's around the time around the revolutionary war anytime there's any kind of uh any kind of geopolitical tensions there's always an uptick in crypted sightings >> so I don't Oh, there you have it. Do you live near the Pine Barons?
>> No, I'm I'm in I'm in Sussex County, so I'm like kind of closer to Pennsylvania than anything else.
>> Yeah, I was going to say that would be a very long drive.
>> 20 20 minutes I'm in Pennsylvania.
>> Okay. See, I was thinking about this >> cuz it was 2 hours to get up here.
>> Yeah. Oh, well, is that because of traffic?
>> No, I I took the way where there's no traffic.
>> Oh, and it still was 2 hours. I thought you were close.
>> No, I'm a good distance from you, man.
But I I'll always come for a good time.
Well, you know, hopefully you have a little bit of a a couple of minutes left of a a Yankee game to listen to.
>> Well, if they're not losing, >> they're losing 3-2 right now.
[clears throat] >> It's the Blue Jays. They're a piece of They're a piece of [ __ ] team. I can't take it anymore, man.
>> They They only have two good starting pitchers. They have no bullpen.
Six through nine in the lineup is terrible. Anyway, >> I knew [laughter] we can go on. We can go on and we will one day. Anyway, um so let's uh I have a few things I want. Okay, let me ask you this because we're talking about how these coins are really a you can see just like with our own money problems. What the hell has happened within a society whether it be an empire or over here in the United States what has happened? what you can tell just from the coinage itself because you can tell that there there's an impact a physical impact on by inflation and all that but as far as the as far as the the culture goes what do you think we're talking Greece we're talking ancient world what do you think about all of the controversy of uh around Christopher Nolan and the Odyssey right now and the casting decisions that are being made and and uh and everybody fighting over identity of of one person or another and it's it's just become the same old kind of a food fight.
>> Well, so first of all, the the character they picked for Helen of Troy like was not what was described by Homer at all.
Um, but second of all, I think it has less to do with what Nolan wants and more that he wants to be able to win best picture because in 2024, um, the Academy changed the rules that you have to have a certain per percentage of cast members that come from different defined groups in order to actually be able to win best picture.
So, I think it's a decision of do I want to win that award, right? I think is is kind of the bigger part of it. I think it has less to do with what Christopher Nolan wants to push or doesn't want to push. Um, but you know, I think it goes back to what Dean said. Can we just make some cool movies about things we don't know about history, uh, rather than kind of, you know, making something like that? But at the same time, if you're not making something that's academy level, is it even going to get the distribution? So, that that that's the thing I think you have to look at is it's less about what Nolan's looking to create and more what he has to create in the structure he's stuck in.
>> Yeah. I And let me just say, I I'm [ __ ] sick of seeing Matt Damon, too.
So, it's just just >> He's like 100 years old now, isn't he?
>> Yeah. You could have gone anywhere for, you know, for Odysius and uh we got Matt Damon. But yeah, you're right. The the Academy literally requires that 30% of all actors are >> Is that what the percentage is?
>> It's 30% of all actors are from under reppresented groups or the storyline centers on an underrepresented group or something like that. And that is >> But why can't we just make good movies?
Why does it have to matter who's represented and who's not? Because without being invaded by a barbarian horde, which there is an invasion going on, but it's not one where they're bearing weapons. They are be they're they are becoming a economic burden and they're becoming other types of burdens.
It's it's part of psychological warfare with the migration crisis and all that stuff. So there is a there is an invasion there that's going on here. But it is so 21st century being done through like I said very decentralized means of communication and so uh social media and stuff like that that this is how they're choosing to pick it all apart. I mean you got and and I from a history standpoint this is what your bread and butter is. Yeah. the fact that some daytime television host can go on and will go continue to go on before their their uh poor unfortunate audience and say, "Well, you know, the Greeks were largely influenced by Africa and many of them were black and this is just what it is." It it insults everybody's intelligence. It makes people resentful.
It makes, you know, it just causes a fight. You you can tell that there's just a trap in every every word.
>> Well, it's it's really interesting. I just listened to uh Tucker just had Owen Benjamin on. Uh did you listen to that at all or No, >> not yet.
>> So, it's actually really interesting because he talks about his cancellation process cuz he was a comedian before he kind of started doing the stuff he's doing now. And it's interesting how he describes it. First, you lose your banking and then he's like, "Okay, well, you know, I've lost my banking. I've lost my my manager can't work with me anymore cuz he can't book me anywhere.
So, I'm going to start booking shows myself." So, he starts booking shows himself. He's having success and then the venues start deciding we're not going to have you. So the question is always well who's deciding or who in the system says I can't do this that's that's the part that doesn't make any sense and you have to question where does our culture come from and I think that's the bigger question because we really don't know and often we want to pin it on one group or you know pin it on an individual and I think it's less of that and it's more of this is what has to be accepted to be able to hold the position I currently have and I think that's the concern you have to have. So who's deciding that?
>> Yeah. Well, I I I listen, you need to going back to the movie there, too, as far as who's deciding this on behalf of someone like Christopher Nolan. I mean, you need to have a director who's willing to defile the story in able in in in order to be eligible for the trophy.
>> Mhm.
>> So, he had to say okay to he could have said, "Hey, listen. I've already made my mark and I'll just be a little bit more selective about the stories I get to tell. I would have loved to told this one, but it's it's a little ridiculous.
I mean I mean come on. I mean to talk about a a maimed Ellen Paige as Achilles if this turns out to be true. Is >> that actually true though? Because I've heard I've heard it both ways that that she is and she isn't.
>> You know what? There's no denials from her. And maybe it's just part of the whole thing. Maybe >> the memes have been outrageous.
>> It's been crazy. And and I wish I can, you know, I have to >> Did you see the Sparta one where where she she's an she's a Leonitis and she just gets stabbed.
>> Yeah, I saw that one. I saw the there's a there's so many other ones.
>> Oh, the one from Troy where the she just takes the spear and this is the end of it.
>> Yes, but there's another one and I'm going nuts trying one. Did you see the foot loose one?
>> I see so many. I see so many. And the thing is that I can't I have to pick and choose what I show on on at least on YouTube. Yeah, >> because if you show I remember I got a strike because I I I showed some sort of a it wasn't even AI in the sense that AI was is prompted. It was just a cut in altered video that was supposed to be funny version of I don't know some kind of an interview that Camala Harris was doing. And I got a strike maybe two years ago or so for altered video or something. Oh wow. And I know somebody else that's just had an entire channel demonetized because it is uh some kind of altered content. It's it's so nuts.
>> But it's interesting because here here's the thing that's interesting and this this I guess goes back to kind of the moniker used for the show of the jester, right? The purpose of a jester was always to say things to a king that people couldn't say to the king. We don't have a place for jesters anymore.
And I think that's a that's a real problem. It doesn't mean that, you know, we're calling for violence or things like that, but the the reason these exist is to call out the lunacy of the things that that we're seeing, and we're not able to do that anymore.
>> No.
No, we're not. But but to to it we we I think I think where I'm more encouraged is that it seems that we are starting to realize that we weren't allowed >> and um and we were given reasons why we shouldn't >> we shouldn't do one thing or call out something that seems to be a little bit uneven. Why is one why are there definitely winners and winners and losers being picked? It's one thing for everybody to say, "Damn, the government is picking winners and losers in the economy. You know, the government is giving subsidies to one industry and not to the other. They're giving subsidies to just certain preferred companies within an industry and not the other.
They're killing competition on behalf of their friends. Mhm.
>> It's another thing to say that there's winners and losers with speech, you know, uh because that is only implemented in a war that is that is being done silently and over the course of generations to pit people against each other based on their genitalia, their color of their skin. That that is supposed to be endgame programming.
>> And well, so we're not fighting about the real problems. We're fighting about these other things that have been created for us.
>> Absolutely. I mean, absolutely. And and and people are now you it's just so naked. It's it laid complete bare what what is uh what we all grew up thinking was like a example of a post-racial society. Uh we thought that when we were watching Mighty Ducks back in the day, but uh obviously we were being set up for what we have right now, which obviously popped off around, I don't know, 2000 2012 is when it got really bad in the middle of the Obama administration when he wasn't really doing much, so he just gave everybody race wars.
>> Mhm.
>> We're seeing that. And um I think it's the the parallels between one civilization and our civilization is interesting cuz again the only thing that's different. We have the inflation.
We have the ridiculous expansionist uh you know military meddling and all that stuff. But the one thing we could not account for until we arrived when we were born in the 20th century. The one thing we couldn't account for is what a collapse plus this kind of technology gives us because the the civilization cycle that that ran on repeat before we were born and same thing. Well, I think if you go back to the Roman Republic, not the Roman Empire, but the Republic, um I believe it was Cicero that was commenting on um the way a lot of rich people were were actually biting their time that koi ponds or or wild fish ponds became very popular in the late Roman Republic. And the commentary was on that people cared less about what was happening in their country and less to the freedoms they were losing and the way that their government was falling apart. They were more concerned about their koi ponds. And I think that's the problem that we see when things aren't really good. People lose the ability to confront the real problems and they want to confront the things that are easiest to confront. The things that are easiest to confront is what do we look like? Who are we? What do you like? What don't I like? It's not easy to confront inflation. It's not easy to conf to confront the fact that your politicians are shortsighted and and don't do things for the future. It's not easy to confront that your borders are out of control. it's very easy to confront what your neighbor is doing or what you you know uh you know what color skin or what race or what gender or whatever it is that that you don't like. So I think that's kind of the the issue we're at is when times are hard people lose the ability to confront. [snorts] You know I was going to pick a um I was going to pick a another night to talk about this but I might as well just bring it up with you a little bit now because I I'm curious now. But just yesterday, the day before, I think maybe on Saturday or so, the news started getting around that somebody had or at least wants to refurbish 80 locations of Pizza Hut. You saw that?
>> I did see that. I I was talking to my wife about that last night and she's like, "Oh, the food wasn't very good, but I guess it's Americana."
>> It was I mean, I used to love whatever the hell it tasted like back in the day.
Then again, it could just be my >> I have so many good memories of Pizza Hut, though.
>> I know. But that here's the thing again.
We're in a rough time right now and I I know people just want want to feel a little bit of comfort, but comfort versus confronting an issue and actually tearing an issue out by the making making some work out of out of a project that is being thrown in your face. Hey, uh you've got a real you've got a termite infestation. You've got an issue right now and you can't go and eat some pizza and make this go away. But the real question there is what what does the Pizza Hut represent to people? Like I saw this over here. Somebody finally realized people don't just miss the pizza. They miss the experience, the red cups, the Pac-Man machines, the salad bar. Uh here here it is right there. Um the salad bar booths pack with families on Friday nights. Tim Spark says he wants to bring back places where people actually sit down, talk, laugh, and put their phones away for a while. That's not going to happen. Now, okay, this is what I'm talking about. People miss.
>> They want an escape. It's the same reason people do drugs. It's the same reason they do a lot of things. To escape from reality.
>> Yes.
>> Don't get me wrong. I I love nostalgia, but I think at the same time, we don't want to escape reality.
>> You can't escape reality. And this is not going to bring it back. Like, I'm saying what? First of all, what are they going to do? Confiscate everybody's phones as they walk through the door?
Mhm.
>> Um what what people miss are their grandparents.
>> Yeah.
>> People miss being able to go to a place like Pizza Hut in the 1990s when everybody and everything was different.
Everybody was different.
>> Okay. People were sitting down and I'm sure that there was a Pizza Hut.
>> I think it's more remembering what was than actually changing current culture.
>> Right. Right. But then when you walk through the doors of a newly refurbished Pizza Hut in uh in uh in in 2026 and things will look the way they they did. There's all there's I don't know.
That's just that's going to feel odd.
>> It's going to feel odd and and like I said, I think it's more of nostalgia and comfort and trying to remember what was and what we lost. I I don't think it really solves a problem now, right? the the problems now were they're really big problems. But I think that the thing that and this goes back to a number of conversations I've had, you know, uh when I asked Colonel Doug McGregor about this, when I asked General Mike Flynn about this, you know, what can the regular person do? And it's getting back to your local community, helping your neighbor, shoveling your neighbor's driveway because they're too they're too elderly to do it themselves. Um somebody has a baby, you make them dinner. But these are all things that people don't really do anymore. And I think for those of us that want to feel like we're doing something, getting involved locally, you actually can do a lot. And I think that's really what it comes down to is yes, on a national level, we are all powerless, but in our local communities, we have so much power because we're closer to the people we can affect.
Well, very well said. I'm I'm right there with you. thinking and acting locally as uh Brian Mlanahan would say and that is really the the basis of American American traditional American culture.
>> You want to talk about 250 years later since the Declaration of Independence that is that was what we were hoping it was going to be that uh the talkville kind of America. It's been >> we're not those people anymore. I think that's that's the scary part. We're not the people that, you know, the crazy Americans that will take any risk or do anything or build something huge or, you know, go out and explore a new world.
We're afraid to walk out of our homes.
And I think that that is it's a sad state that that people have become.
>> Yeah. Hey. Um, but again, I think that I think that where we are right now, if there's anything to be really excited about, and that's what I am, is that we realize there's a lot more people are saying, "Oh, man. Okay, I see. I see how it's how it's been even before I I knew it was that way." You can't make any informed decisions if you're still living under the guise of the old world.
And that's that. Let's go to some >> Well, that's one of the reasons I talk about Rome is is not to be a doomer, but to show people like if we're aware, if we communicate, if we know our history, we can actually create our present and our future better. So, I I think that's what people really like to consider. But any anyway, go ahead.
>> No, and the other thing there too is the the fall of Rome is something that would that happened hundreds of years ago and the the world didn't end. And of course, somewhere down the line about what what was it what the official 1453? So the the Western Empire falls in 476. The Eastern Empire falls in 1453.
>> 1453. So let's just from there, I mean it not too long after that the United States kicks off.
>> 300 years. Yeah.
>> Not too long. I mean it's been 300 250 years since from there uh here we are right now. So, uh, I'm sure that somebody somebody in the in the East was just like, "Well, now it's officially over and now comes the real darkness."
And and and I don't know, some good good times are still in the future. And you got to we just got to lay foundations here, man. Even if even if we're the generation that has to clear brush >> for a future down gener future foundation, then fine. Super chats.
Rosie says, "My parents have a ridiculous amount of old money. Not necessarily ancient, but who knows? The thought of going through all of it is very daunting. I'll have to get in contact with Dean when that time comes.
Rosie, I'm telling you, especially when it comes to printed money, it's one of those things where a little red F put in the wrong place makes that little piece of paper worth $15,000. It's it's it's crazy. It's crazy what what um imperfection does to increase value for things like for things like coinage and currency and all that. Thank you. Sto J Brit says, "What an interesting in informative show tonight." Thank you, Frank. Rodney Journal uh subscribed on on Twitch. Thank you so much. Joe Martinez, thank you as well. Uh over on Rumble, let's see what we got going on over there. It's a different night tonight, but these are the nights I love sprinkling in. We got to do more of it.
Grandma Grateful says, "I'm late." No, you're just on time. Let's see. Jay Simmo says, "Dean's a character. Very interesting show as usual." You're the best, Frank. Well, thank you. Dat 76 says, "Here's a coin entry. Putting in coin entries." Wow. Oh, Dat is just throwing them all in. That's going to increase your odds for sure. And then over on pill, let's see what people are saying.
Got a couple minutes here with my my boy Jeremy. Let's see. Uh Tom Cat says, "Doing a little bit to help the quite frankly team." Thank you, Tom Cat. Uh Tommy Jackekal Cor uh Corey, happy Mondays, Truthful Mama. Corey, uh again, let's see here. Silly Boore, Icebox, just Rev. Tommy Jackekal says, "These guys have blown to torment the idea to uh Roman soldiers were paid in Mortons."
What is Mortons?
>> Salt.
>> Oh, were they?
>> So, that's where the word salary comes from. Uh Ro soldiers were paid in a portion of coin, but also in a portion of salt because salt had a ton of value.
It could flavor food and it could also preserve food because this is before refrigeration or anything like that. So, salt had a lot of value. It's where the phrase being worth your salt comes from.
And salary actually comes from the word I think it's salarium. Uh which was the salt amount a soldier was given.
>> Jeez. Okay. I this this why these nights have to happen more often. [laughter] Icebox just put an EMP in the chat room.
I can't thank you enough. Really can't.
Do you think Judas was a coin collector?
I doubt it. He just >> Well, it was 30 pieces of silver.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, they they said they he just hung out.
>> Yes. Oh, yes. There's a punch line there. Do I have one? There you go.
>> There we go.
>> All right, let's see. Uh Lynn, thank you. Scott, thank you for all the cookies. Uh America, uh Amethyst Cat Safety Net says, "A wee bit of gold for the goal." Thank you. And then, uh Fireside Wonder says, "In for the prize.
Love the Frankly crew." Sentinel says, "Really fun and interesting show topic."
And both guests were engaging and a delight to watch. They really are fantastic. They really are great.
They really, really are. So, what's been new on you as far as or where you where you going to be going next with your show? So, we're just I have two different channels now. We we separated everything out. I stopped doing any like real political stuff about a year and a half ago. So, I have two channels at the moment. Uh hidden forces in history. We look at the power structures behind history. So, I've explored things like the Medici, um the Boura. We just did an episode on uh famous assassinations in history and basically what laws were reversed and what laws were passed because those assassinations happened.
Um like there's three that are really interesting. Like if you look at Kennedy, Kennedy had signed an act that we were basically going to pull out of Vietnam, but 4 days later after he's assassinated, um LBJ passes a different act which keeps us in Vietnam longer.
And he was actually making money from I think it was Bell Helicopter, one of those was was one of his big funders. So it was really valuable to him. Or if you look at uh after Lincoln is assassinated, his entire reconstruction plan is tabled and then um Andrew Johnson gets sent in after that and it basically changes the entire way that things are going to be planned. Um the other one that was really interesting was McKinley as well and I I don't remember the full story around McKinley but so if you look at famous assassinations and some of the things that happened because of them, it's quite quite interesting. So, we're looking at real power structures and the things behind history, real documented history. We do all the research on it. U my other channel is the Roman pattern.
That's looking at civilizational collapse um with Rome as a model. And week by week, we're taking different pieces of the [snorts] Roman collapse.
And we actually did a really great video today that came out on uh the battle of Adrian Opople in 378. Um, in 376, the Romans had been using what are called Federati for for a bit of the 3rd century and into the fourth century. And Federati were basically barbarian troops that would serve for Rome. And because of that, they were allowed to have Rome land within Rome. In 376, Rome brings about 200,000 across the border. And they have a deal with them about feeding them and taking care of their families. But what ends up happening is the bureaucracy gets in the way. They starve the people. They're basically selling them dog meat for their children and it gets these barbarians so upset that they basically turn that resettlement into an invasion.
And in 378 is actually um where Emperor Valins that we talked about before actually falls in battle. And it's kind of the down spiral of Rome until 476 in the west when it falls. So, we're we're covering a lot of these topics week by week to kind of teach a lesson and show people to be able to observe patterns um when they look at their history and also look at their present world.
>> Well, I I just subscribed um I just subscribe to Hidden Forces in History. I was subscribed to your personal channel, but now I got that one. This is this is You see, this is the kind of thing, Jeremy, anytime anytime you you put together lists like that. Hey, I love to come on and talk about these this assassination uh uh thread that we put together. Whatever. I love those.
>> We just did a thread on on Adrian Opel on X, which actually led to us this video wasn't supposed to come out for a couple weeks. We ended up getting it out today. Um because we had a thread on X last week. Um I think it got almost 400,000 views. We got a comment from Elon Musk on it and uh Senator Mike Lee actually quote tweeted it as well. So it it got a lot of attention because it was talking about you know a immigrant crisis handled incorrectly you know what can it happen and what can it cause as a society. So I think these things can teach us a lot of lessons about how we handle things correctly poorly and also you know what it's happening in our modern world.
>> Is it this one right here when Rome let 200,000 Goths cross the Danube?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. Yeah. I'm going to see that's >> Yeah, that's the one in 376. People hated the AI photos, but like I I like them because they tell the story and the type of aesthetic I want to tell it in.
>> Yeah. Well, you know, >> there's a certain aesthetic we're going for because I feel like it really communicates the story better.
>> You could always uh do handdrawn stick figures next time. People >> Everybody's a critic, right?
>> Yeah. Well, that's just the way it's going to be. But I love this stuff. And this is what we have to hone in on more, man. Even if you're just every once in a while you're you're zooming and you don't have to do the two-hour ride every time. even if you're just zooming in.
>> Well, we do these in like 30 to 40 minutes max because I the thing I want to have is bite-size history that everybody can understand because there's too many, you know, there there's other channels out there handling that. My my goal is to teach history for regular people in a way that they can use it and understand it >> and and that's why I'm trying to do it in the way I'm doing it.
>> I love it. I love it. Well, that let's get more of that in 2026. We have to.
Hey, by the way, um in you know, we're already halfway through the month, actually more than halfway through the month. You and the family are coming up for the spring fling on June 6th. No, >> dude. Yeah, I'm stoked. I'm I'm going to do the the VIP night by myself, but then the family's coming out for for the day the next day.
>> Come hang out with Jeremy Ryan Slate and so many other I'll let keep I'll keep let you know who who's coming up, guys and gals. But you got to come up. It's going to be great, especially on the 6th because if you got a family, get in touch with me. Say, "Hey, I got a couple kids. They're you know you know >> I got more than a couple. [laughter] >> There's a great playground. I can't wait to see them running around with Aurora and and there's gonna be other other people with their kids there, too. And there's gonna be so much food and it's going to just be steak and steak and steak.
>> I I love when you have Aurora on the mic, by the way. She reminds me so much of my my 5-year-old Emmy. Oh my gosh.
>> Well, they're [laughter] they're going to have a great time. This is this is going to be so great. So, ladies and gentlemen, please remember quite frankly. There's the events page right there. You can just just come to the June 6th. It doesn't matter. There's there's there's still a little bit uh a little bit of room left. It's not as big of a place as um as last September at at Garcia in the Capitol Theater. So, it was always going to be a little bit more of an intimate gathering, but still between that and all, you know, friends and family, it should be a nice time and plenty of people to talk to and meet and and Jeremy's uh Jeremy's one of them.
He'll be talking about the Roman Empire all day.
>> All day.
>> He'll have his own little corner of the room. you just stand in line and just talk to him about the Roman Empire.
>> I I keep getting told that I sound like I'm semi-aututistic with the way I can rattle off emperor names, >> you know. Uh it I I think it's great. I think it's great. [laughter] It's all it's whenever somebody you can tell when somebody's got something invested when passion has been invested in something and uh you know there could be worse things that you know a lot about. There could be much worse things that you know a lot about. And that's all I have to say on that. Okay. Uh with that, that is the end of our show tonight, ladies and gentlemen. Um we're Jeremy, are you okay for a couple minutes of flip side?
>> Yeah, let's do it, man.
>> All right. I I want to watch something with you. You want to talk about London?
You want to talk about Europe? You want to talk about civilizations rise and fall? Well, our friend Nick Shirley is out in London right now as they are continuing to protest against uh policies of the government. that is really not uh going to promote a very healthy future for the country and it's once again this is where you can see history playing out but also the effects of propaganda playing out when you see some of the people who are weeping who people who weep in fear of the sight of their own country's flag when people go and it's it dude it's nuts >> I went to school in the UK in 2009 so it's it's been quite a bit since I've actually like spent a lot of time there.
>> There's quite a bit has happened since 2009.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, you're talking 27 years. I mean, 17 years.
>> That's nuts. Uh how quickly it it happens. That's why there's there's nothing about this is is natural.
>> Mhm.
>> You know, it takes so long. But um so internet giveth, internet taketh away.
All right, ladies and gentlemen, please join us on the flip side. I'll be dropping the link in the chat room.
Jeremy Ryan Slate, what's the website people should be going to?
>> Uh, commanderbrand.com is our company.
How we help help people get in the right podcasts. Uh, if you want to check out anything I do, I'm Jeremy Ryan Slate on all platforms. I'm most active on Instagram and X. I write a thread every single week to teach you a history lesson related to Rome. I have two YouTube channels, The Roman Pattern, uh, which is the one I spent a lot more time on, but then also Hidden Forces in History, where I get to, uh, get a little of my itch of medieval history and some other things out there. we look at the power structures behind history.
>> Well, I I can't wait to go and binge over there. Uh, also remember, use promo code May on Keto Brains. That's where you're going to get Molly just said not only you're going to get the uh the hot chocolate uh tonight and tomorrow. I think it's like the first 20 orders, but all orders over $100 gets free t-shirts and also you're in the raffle, too. So, there's that. All right, that's all. See you tomorrow. Thank you so much to Dean Kzer and um and let's get this after hours kickstarted.
>> I'll catch you on the flip side.
[music] >> All right, quite frankly filmed before a live studio audience. And now our super chatters starting with our friends over on everywhere. Thank you Rosie. Thank you Stos Tube and Jay Britz and Joe Martinez and all of our good friends on PL and Rumble. We will talk to you guys tomorrow. Tomorrow is going to be a wonderful day, but we're not actually done right now. Come to the flip side.
If you can't find the link, go to quite frankly.tv and just press play. That's all you need to do. That's how easy it is. All right, guys. Good night.
[music] Heat.
[music] [music] [music] [music] Heat.
[music] >> [music] >> Goodbye.
>> All right, that's it. Thanks everybody.
>> Will you shut up?
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