Talking Trading: How we use Automation to make Profit in Forex

追加: 2026-06-01

[00:00:00]So five years ago this guy here Peta reached out to me online and I rejected him. But now we are sitting here in this very room and we will talk about trading. So this is as always on the channel of course not like a talk a motivational talk about how to get the next Lambo. We will keep it real but we are both traders combined. We have 13 years of experience which is quite a lot. So we have one or two things to tell about automated trading especially because Peter also is in this field and we decided to just set sit down here introduce him a little bit. We are like meeting a little bit from time to time playing chess talking about trading in chess mainly I win.

[00:00:38]>> No >> sometimes I win but >> you whatever I have to win he wins but >> yeah so so Peter who who are you and how how does it come that we are sitting here now? How did we meet?

[00:00:52]>> Yeah. Well, first I think the most important thing is to mention that uh when I reached out to you, I actually reached out for you to help me to promote the manager which was my first product that I built like three years ago and he obviously rejected me and I understand why. But uh the reason why I reached out to you specifically was because I learned programming from you.

[00:01:13]And uh then when I heard that you're in Budapest, I also tried to reach out the next time and then I was successful. I I could invite you to a coffee and we could play some chess. I will always beat you in chess. But anyways, and and I think it was it was a very nice journey we had. We talked a lot about automated trading talked a lot about how these trading spaces like basically you cannot really trust anyone in this space and uh we both I think try to be someone who is actually trustworthy and transparent in this space.

[00:01:49]>> Yeah. And that that's why also actually is one of the biggest reasons why I rejected beta like three years ago because there are like from time to time people reach out and want to talk about like the trading projects they have or want to get like the next strategy that makes them rich overnight and that's of course very unrealistic. It's not how the trading works. So you you kind of need to filter out the people who really are serious in this business and who understand like how the market works, what what can work, what what cannot work. And then um yeah, when when I it was actually a coincidence that I came here then to to Budapest and he lives here. So then he he was asking me again and we we just met for a coffee and just uh talked a little bit and then I realized that he he actually is like a bit is not one of these uh fake Lambo guys. I mean still still have to wait like maybe in one year you will drive around the corner having the biggest of lambos.

[00:02:47]>> That's the goal.

[00:02:48]>> That's the goal. But but no seriously we we have like I think quite a similar understanding which makes it very uh yeah very very good to like talk about it and we can I think learn from each other actually. I mean I tried to give him a little bit of the experience that I collected over the years of of live trading now but also like from him I can uh I can learn a lot because he he really has this professional uh coding background that I that I don't have and um I just learned the like coding by myself online and he studied actually so he's professional and so yeah I I would say your coding skills are better and you have a better understanding of like how to build bigger projects. and and how everything works in the background.

[00:03:31]And I'm a little bit more like hands-on, so we kind of um are a good addition to each other when it comes to this. And um yeah, so that's that's basically how how we found each other. And now we are like exchanging our like ideas about trading like what what we do and there are some interesting projects actually that we also will will talk about. So Peter, tell me how how do you plan to to get to the limbo with with trading? I mean you probably have a plan, you have something figured out. Tell me what's your what's your approach to trading. How did you get there? Like a little bit about your your journey in this field.

[00:04:08]>> Well, when I first started trading, I actually started trading after I watched the movie Wolf of Wall Street, which is like really funny, I think.

[00:04:14]>> Very good inspiration.

[00:04:15]>> Very good inspiration indeed.

[00:04:16]>> That's how it goes.

[00:04:18]>> Yeah. And then uh after I I watched this, I thought that becoming a trader is pretty easy and making millions is pretty easy. And also the YouTube and the whole like social media algorithms are always like actually against you in this case because they always tell you that it is very easy to get rich and I also started like like this. I I started >> everyone everyone it's so crazy like I I haven't met a single trader who who was not in this mindset of like getting rich quickly and figuring out the one strategy that will work always and then I mean once you start digging a little bit deeper once you start testing a little bit you're figuring out >> it's actually not that easy and like I don't know like sometimes I feel a little bit stupid even because I think like >> me too >> what is this like everyone's making money so easily and I cannot find the the strategy that is always making money. But >> yeah and I and for this I actually have a theory that there is a correlation between engineering and transparency in this field. So actually whenever there if someone is more technical than the others, he's more likely to tell you the truth than uh when he's like basically just flashing Lambos and trying to tell you. I'm I mean it makes sense because if you are very technical, if you like actually show the stuff and use automated programs, it's very easy also to prove if you are right or wrong. And with the Lambo guys, they usually say that you need to analyze, you need to find the daily bias. If you're not profitable, then maybe your analysis was not so good. And with automated trading, you can really be like put on the spot and you can be like like factch checked fact checked.

[00:05:57]>> Yeah.

[00:05:59]Yeah.

[00:05:59]>> Yeah.

[00:06:00]>> That's the that's I think the most important thing in this in this in this whole business.

[00:06:04]>> But but did you try to be like uh did you try the Lambo strategies in the beginning? Did you try to trade manually? How did how did it go?

[00:06:11]>> I tried the MACD crossover strategies and I lost some money on them.

[00:06:15]>> I lost like about $200 or $300 of my of my dad's money actually. So it was not not my own money. I was >> best way to lose money.

[00:06:24]>> Way to lose money. Exactly. And uh yeah, I basically tried it. I see I saw that it failed. And then I mean I pretty I realized pretty quickly that algorithmic trading is probably the way to go because I come from a an engineering background. I actually learned programming from like I don't know when I when I was like 14 years old. So then I realized that these strategies that these gurus talk about a lot of them can be automated and if they can be automated and they are objective and they are rule based then I can test them. And after I tested them, I realized that all of them are basically like like all of them lose money badly.

[00:07:02]I mean there are also some like other YouTube channels or videos that expose some of the gurus like where they changed screenshots and stuff like that.

[00:07:09]And I think it's a yeah it's very bad to see this because we are also in this industry and it puts the the whole industry in a bad in a bad light kind of. So I'm I'm like a little bit frustrated about this, but it's also good that there are other like examples and you already told that like with automation or like more technical approach, it's also much easier to actually like foolproof someone and and I think this is the way to go and I guess there is also like some some trend that is going to more auto automation and more technical approach even also with AI which is supporting a lot but also I just realized you probably have like more trading uh like coding experience than I have or you are coding for for a longer time or at least the same time because I think I also started like about 10 years ago which is kind of the same and Peter is a lot younger than I am. He's like, "It might not look like this because I look so fresh still, but >> he's like 10 years younger." So, >> I'm pretty pretty young again.

[00:08:08]>> Fresh out out of uni. So, all the knowledge still fresh. But but yeah, it's uh yeah, it's good. So, so you also dig deeper into this automated trading topic then and try to um like develop your own strategies and what were your like first approaches in this field? How did you tackle it? And maybe also what was something that surprised you? What did not work or like?

[00:08:33]>> Yeah, the first the first approach I took is actually I just like looked in YouTube looked at YouTube who is the best like algorithmic trader. I found you. I found another guy called Ryan Brown. And uh the first strategies that I tried to make that were or at least that seemed to be profitable were like grid or marting strategies which is like pretty easy to make profitable actually.

[00:08:57]So anyone could code something that trades like I don't know 100 times a year. It cherrypicks good trades and then scales the lot size with it. These were the first attempts of mine and I still think actually that there is a potential in these. I honestly I honestly think that there are because I think if >> there's a huge potential if you sell these on Olymp that's one side that's one side but on the other side I think if you diversify them then they may be profit they may make a profitable strategy. So let's let me ask you a question. What if I told you that there is an investment idea?

[00:09:31]Like really, I I did not talk about talk talk about this to you before, but what if I told you there is an investment opportunity for you and you either uh triple your money in a year, triple or lose all >> and you have 50/50 chance for this.

[00:09:47]>> I I mean, I would not think that it exists because it's a little bit against against my logic, but of course, I would invest all of my money in Well, why why don't you think it it why don't you think that it exists? I mean, why could it exist? That's like too much of an edge, I think. And from my experience, it's I don't know. It has just shown that it's not really that easy. Like every every reward comes at a risk. And usually it's you can have an edge, I think, but it's more like a small edge.

[00:10:15]And if it would be like this big, then people would exploit it already, I think.

[00:10:20]>> But what what how do you think it would work like with strategies or >> Yeah. with with grid and morting strategies definitely with with with scaling and there are many strategies out there actually who like make thousand% even on MQL5 and they will eventually blow they will eventually blow >> but on MQ5 it's a bit tricky like the percentages because usually they also deposit a very tiny amount first >> that's true >> go extremely high risk then they deposit a little bit more and go lower risk so and you have to be like a little bit careful with these like techniques >> that's that's true I completely agree with you But they still have tremendous returns after they increase the account size like even 10 or I don't know 20% a month sometimes. And and this is this is this is not something I advise like this is really I'm against this. I'm against this but >> I mean I'm for it.

[00:11:11]>> If you no like if you have this ratio if you can make two times the investment or lose it then it's a no-brainer.

[00:11:17]>> Yeah.

[00:11:18]>> But I I don't really know. I mean you can prove me wrong. It's a no-brainer, but but at the same time, if you run it for a long time, so if you run this investment for a long time, you will eventually lose all your money. That's like basic mathematical law.

[00:11:30]>> But then you could just uh like use it for one year, get out like the profit.

[00:11:35]>> Yeah. Or maybe >> start again because then you would print money.

[00:11:37]>> Or maybe or maybe you lost lost half of you lost all the money. It's 50/50. And I >> Yeah, but but if you say like you make 300% or lose 100, then it's not 50/50. I mean, yeah, it's 50/50 if you make the profit or the loss, but if the if after one year you make the profit, then you can start like two more accounts with the profit and then it would be money printing. So, I think it's I mean send me the system. I will I will be glad to run it.

[00:12:05]>> No, I I mean I I don't I don't have the system. I don't have the system. But I think that actually like diversifying these kind of strategies because I think that this strategy is actually not so hard to find like if you want to like really make huge returns and at the same time maybe lose all your account which is the best strategy you can find them.

[00:12:23]I think they're this is this is there like trading strategies on mean reverting essence or something like that but I think if you diversify them like as you just said you you start three other three other accounts but if you diversify them in one account only then maybe it is even better so if you so if I run like let's say 10 different strategies each of them using grid and martingale and each of them have like maybe maybe they will lose all their capital but the capital I allocate into the strategies are actually less less than my my balance. So, let's say like 10% of my balance, then that may be a rational strategy.

[00:13:00]>> Yeah, would be. I mean, if the numbers are like you assume here, then of course it's it's profitable long term. I actually had a project once that I ran in a demo account only where I deposited 1k 10,000 euro in a demo and I used a Martin Galing grid and it was actually doing like 200% or so over over like I don't know like two three years. I don't recall it perfectly. It's still on my FX book actually the signal and the biggest draw down was like 35% or so. So of course it can work. I I definitely also believe that it's just like finding something that has such a big edge. I don't I don't know. But I mean >> yeah maybe I was over exaggerating.

[00:13:37]>> We could try to go in this direction and try something out but I mean surely you can make money with all sorts of strategies. And I think Martin Gret it's it's just like one tool or technique you can use to to to make profits and it has its like benefits and like advantages and disadvantages and yeah I mean what is nice and why people like it is because it usually has this very >> very stable looking equity which goes good until it doesn't and that's what people like. This is why it says also good on M35 and like the logic behind it is very uh yeah it makes sense and it's very like uh it's something we like as humans I think to like win most of the time and then sometimes you lose but then you you don't have this like negative uh event so often. So it's it's very pleasant I would say for psychological >> way of how we um experience trading and yeah >> yeah definitely I I completely agree with you on this point. I think for for whenever you're selling on MP5 >> I don't have that much experience on this but uh >> the most important thing for getting good reviews is to like have a good probability of winning in the next month.

[00:14:52]>> Yeah. So if if someone purchases a a grid bot, >> he's most likely going to make money in the first month and then he will eventually lose, but first before losing, he will probably leave a good review.

[00:15:04]>> But I think that's actually not the way to go.

[00:15:07]>> Ah yeah. So I mean if it's a strategy and you communicate like honest honestly like the martingale grid then I think it's definitely valid. But yeah, the MQL5 market is a very like specific like customer uh like persona that goes to MQL5. I also had this uh project. I told you about it already like the skyping project that I had like a few months ago. I showed you I made like from the sales like 30,000 euro months or dollar and it was also like in the beginning it was a scalper.

[00:15:39]So most of the time it was winning. Of course I passed like a platform challenge and people were getting hyped and um at this point I didn't know that it would suffer from the slippage too much. So I I think it would not be as efficient but people were jumping on this product like crazy in the beginning when it was passing the challenge just after like one or two months and they were buying it and and it shows like how how short tempered or short-minded the people are.

[00:16:05]And now I have this uh life account that I trade which is completely different approach. the the hit rate is like just barely about about 50%, but it also has like a half a year drawd down but it's it's much more profitable long-term than the slapping project and and and with with this I experienced the complete like opposite or like it's actually not the opposite but it also shows like the like how how young or unexperienced traders think because there was also like were few people following my signal for this account when I still made it available for like 30 bucks a month or so. Now I set it to 1,000 so no one follows. But when it was still cheap, some people were following and they were following for like one or two months and then they get left a bad review and they said, "Ah, it's not profitable. It's it's it's it's and it's I mean I cannot really comprehend it in my head because it's so profitable. It's crazy. Like if you would give this performance that I made to any hedge fund in the world, they would be super happy to take it because there's barely no draw down. Okay, there was sideways period but no draw down at all. just going well and of course I was extremely lucky with the period but the performance was just hilarious and and or like astonishing and I don't understand why how people can be like so uneducated and like blinded by the narrative about trading that they do not understand that trading is not making money every single day, week or months and it's more like having a strategy that hopefully has an edge because we are not talking about like uh uh like say forecasts when we're trading it's always at risk and it's uh surprising me how many people don't understand it and and this comes down to any system basically like systems in my opinion they have like different risk or like characteristics and martingale grid programs we talked about it they usually win all of the time until they don't the live stream that I run where I run different strategies they they they win sometimes they lose sometimes it's more like 50/50 but the wins are slightly bigger so it makes a profit and of course the equity and balance will look different but both uh like approaches are valid and it's it's you you just need to understand like the logic the basics behind it and >> and they >> many people don't which is a bit uh a bit sad but >> and then probably the most important thing is consistency right because you you run this like account for two years or three three years already >> uh a little bit more than two years Yeah, consistency uh I think it's it's very important. Yeah, because I just had this half year sideways period and people were writing half year it's not making profits and then the last two or three years it's making like the performance it made more performance than the last year combined. So >> yeah. Yeah, that's >> And did you ever struggle with with consistency or did did you ever like struggle with with keeping the money in your account, not touching the strategies?

[00:19:10]>> I mean, not touching the strategies is kind of easy now because it's automated and it's in a huge profit. So, it's kind of also easy mentally because there's no big draw down. So, I don't suffer from that. The only thing is that sometimes now I mean I just showed you like the USD Japanese yen which was good in the beginning is like in a 17k draw down which is huge for this account and then of course I also asked myself like should I still stick to the strategy or not and I mean all I have is like the 20 year back test which is extremely profitable. So the question is is it not profitable now after 20 years or like where where is this tipping point kind of where you where you cannot trust the strategy anymore and that's I think very hard to um figure out and and and for this question I I haven't really found an answer or solution yet and with this I think automation also cannot really help or I don't really see because that's the part where where we need to try to predict the future that's I think what we can really do like with certainty.

[00:20:17]>> Yeah, that's >> so >> but but maybe with with something that actually predicts or recognizes market regimes could help. Maybe that's >> but what if it changes? Yeah, it it changes. It changes, but it but like sometimes, for example, this range breakout that you run on USD Japanese yen and I also tested this strategy actually, it has a pretty interesting Zcore, which means that whenever it it wins, it is more likely to win the next trade as well. Whenever it loses, it is more likely to lose the next trade as well. So, whenever it it lo it starts to lose, it will probably lose more. And whenever it starts to win, it will probably win more. And then if you if if you if you recognize this regime then you can act on it and maybe like reduce the lot size whenever the regime is against you.

[00:21:07]>> So you could check like if in the last 10 trades a lot of the trades were losing and if it happens then you reduce the lot size or you don't trade until you see that >> maybe maybe we're winning.

[00:21:19]>> Yeah.

[00:21:20]>> I mean it could be >> this is what the Zcore tells actually in the tester. I don't know if you know about it. I don't look at it a lot.

[00:21:27]>> Yeah. But but basically that's that's that's the whole point of the discourse.

[00:21:30]So whenever you run a strategy, it will >> basically look at the autocorrelation of your wins uh like next to each other and the lo loses and the trades next to each other.

[00:21:40]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:21:41]>> Yeah. So it's it could could make make sense. Just the problem with this is often that it adds uh some kind of delay of course because if you realize that there's a bad period then you reduce the lot size and then the challenge I think is to to figure out when it turns around because if it turns around and you are a little bit too late then you are with the small lot size in the good period and that's I think usually the the tricky tricky part. It's also I mean it's the same with like I think this is like basically the most like if you find a solution for this question then you're printing money. It's the same as if you if you if you want to figure out like if it's a sideways market or a trendy market because you can >> these are regimes. These are regimes.

[00:22:27]>> Yeah. Yeah. you and you can kind of figure out easily if it's a sideways market if you look at the charts backwards because then you know where is the sideways market but if if it's like building out like in the process that's like the one of the toughest questions because even in the process you can of course figure out if it's a sideways market but you don't know when it's about to change and once you realize the change often happened already or at least I didn't find like a solid uh live trading proven like a technique to to really do this.

[00:22:59]>> Me neither. Me neither.

[00:23:01]>> And we can try and we can try to get closer to it to get a small edge, but I think that's really the the question of course we need to solve.

[00:23:08]>> Yeah, definitely.

[00:23:09]>> As a trader and >> so so yeah and but but so you are um we talked a little bit about like that I'm trading for a while now and I made some like experiences in this. I also stream it on the channel. So people who are following my channel know this but but you are which is interesting you are just getting into this now and you're starting your first projects and in life accounts and see how it's going and can can you tell me a little bit about this like what what surprised you what what was uh like good what was bad we also talked about like this a lot for example like the comparing the testing to to live uh resides like with the trailing stops and everything and how's it going I first of all I want to say that I started this whole journey by creating a semi-auto trading tool because I thought that that's what that's what people need and actually I was wrong. I couldn't be more wrong because it actually like shifts shifts the responsibility to people and then I realized this and I started to shift towards EAS and fully automated trading >> and then I did my research. I did a lot of research about which strategies may work, which strategies may have an edge.

[00:24:31]>> One one quick uh uh like jumping in from me. I I actually used this program. He was talking about the manager. I even featured it on my channel. I was using it. It's it's I still think it's a great program. Like the development behind it is is awesome, but I used it a bit and I realized it's just like the mental influence is just too strong. And I was it's the first time I traded semi semi-automated after like almost 10 years or so. And I realized for me it's just not good because if you make the decisions yourself, you will always ask yourself, is it the right decision?

[00:25:04]Should I go in here? Should I go in here? And then I realized again how good it is to have fully automated programs.

[00:25:10]And yeah, it's just what makes it like 10,000 times easier. And it was profitable though like the manager in the end I made I don't know I need to check again like €100. So but it's not worth the struggle for me in the mental mental stress. So >> for for some people it is worth it for most of them maybe not. But I don't know if it's like if it can really be consistent or if it's more like this gambling hype and the feeling that you get from it.

[00:25:37]>> It's a tool. It's a tool. But but it does the job correctly. But anyways, I still think that uh >> I mean like manual trading or semi semi-automated trading if it's like how consistent it can really be because >> for me it always has this >> it's also factor of >> gambling of your own opinion of your own.

[00:25:58]>> Yeah. You don't have the strict rules.

[00:26:00]So >> that's it's not repeatable really cannot really be 100% >> you cannot back test it as well. Like I see I see so many you can so many YouTube channels like I back tested the this 100 times or I don't know it's like ridiculous what a waste of time like if if someone is technical and someone is really like into EA and tested a lot of strategies he will laugh at this because you will realize like >> it basically neglects the only one factor that makes you lose and that's the trading costs. You're looking at a big chart. You're looking at a big chart. You don't see the spread. You don't see the slippage. You don't see the commission. You don't see nothing.

[00:26:36]>> Makes it makes no sense at all.

[00:26:38]>> Literally no sense. You can also test on a very small sample if you have enough time. If you like I don't know if you like waste 5 hours on back testing. So it's ridiculous. It's ridiculous. Like >> there are no advantages to it. None.

[00:26:51]Really? None.

[00:26:53]>> So yeah. So you also figured out that automated trading is a good thing. I >> also figured that out. And then I the first uh thing I started to do is I started to build a framework and an architecture behind my future EAS let's say because I think that even though there are a lot of like EAS on on the MQ 5 market for example or many people are selling this not many have a good architecture behind them including yours I I really think that because there are a lot of limitations to this like I don't know how do How do you define lots sizing? How do you eventually uh control drawdowns? How do you make sure that the EA that you're running has a given risk and it will never exceed that amount of draw down let's say and that's that's the first thing I focused on with one of my friends actually and then after that I was uh researching a lot about profitable trading strategies. I found found for example your strategy the range breakout strategy which is I think one of the best strategies and actually it's pretty easy to to it's one of the like the dumbest strategies out there maybe >> but uh at the same time it's good it's working and for you it's it's also working you have proven it >> and uh then I found the breakout strategies and there I think there are some sellers and there are some people who are using this who are actually profitable like really who are actually making money with them.

[00:28:29]If you have proper risk management then you can make money I think with breakout strategies and then I started to to shift towards towards this kind of trading and I made my first uh support and resistance breakout EA and then since then I made a portfolio of these strategies that are now traded on Bitcoin and on gold. So I'm now trading two assets, Bitcoin and gold with this kind of approach. So support resistance breakouts and even range breakout. Then I I've built a portfolio of these strategies specifically to trade these assets.

[00:29:06]>> Mhm. I mean yeah we we talked about this also in the last uh weeks always and I'm I'm running these actually now in a live account also which I stream on the channel and uh you're also running them.

[00:29:18]So let's see how how how how how it will be and um yeah you said you are having like some kind of uh logic in it like to have this uh portfolio because it's a one expert advisor but it trades different different strategies right >> and how how does this how does it work >> so how it works I think really this this is the selling point of the actually >> because it has an internal equity for each individual strategy that means that each strate strategy can grow its own equity, its own investment so to say or lose it or maybe like reach the draw down and then stop trading. These are the two options >> and then this allows you to truly diversify the strategies because they are not looking at the other strategies balances. So for example, you could invest essentially into strategies and then that investment is what the strategy would see as its own balance.

[00:30:20]>> Yeah.

[00:30:21]>> And then these are running simultaneously next to each other. They are growing or losing the the their own investment.

[00:30:29]The draw down limits also adjust with it. That's that's pretty much the lo logic behind it. I think actually that this is the smartest like uh concept around.

[00:30:40]>> Yeah, it's it's cool. Yeah, >> I mean it's really like it took me a while till I understood how you set it up and everything, but I think it's uh it's it's very cool and it's very new also in this space like no no one really uses it like this and it it kind of makes sense if you trade like different strategies and yeah just I mean it doesn't solve for me the final answer like when do you decide to not use a strategy anymore because even if it hits the draw down limit for example that you can that how do you solve this issue? Like how how would you decide like if it's over with the strategy or if you would turn it on again? And that's uh yeah, I mean that's one one thing that I like maybe the only thing that I cannot really automate and where I don't find a good solution.

[00:31:29]>> Yeah, that's that's a good question and honestly if I if I told you that I have an answer, I would lie to you because this is always like >> you never know. You never know if a strategy loses and reaches reaches the draw down.

[00:31:44]It means one thing and you could never set a draw down limit to a strategy that is completely normal and it it may reach the draw down even though like uh it's it's behaving completely normal.

[00:31:56]>> So it's it should it should be continued but still reach the draw down. It's important to adjust the draw down limits and and the whole risk level uh so that they can co-work together properly but yeah it's it's a hard question. Yeah I it's it's just an architecture that I I think it's sensible.

[00:32:18]>> Yeah it's cool. We we should we will make another video about it I think where we go into detail like really about this uh algorithm and how it works because I think it's worth it to talk about it. It's >> Sure. Sure. It's cool.

[00:32:29]>> I I I will be glad to do it.

[00:32:31]>> And uh and yeah, and then we will see of course also how the strategies perform.

[00:32:35]And I'm I'm very curious because I also did some trials with like breakout strategies.

[00:32:42]Actually, the uh the scalping strategy I talked about it's a bit similar to this.

[00:32:46]It also worked with highs and lows like very simple algorithm like X bars on the left and on the right and then there's a high. If it goes above it's a breakout.

[00:32:54]So I think it's a bit similar to one strategy that you use. And uh it was suffering from slippage but I had like an kind of aggressive trading stop and we also talked about this a lot like trading stops are one of the parameter which is very tricky because it's very easy to make a profitable back test if you use aggressive trading stops but it's also what usually causes a lot of slippage then in the in the actual life account. So it's it's something you need to be careful with and um yeah but but still these strategies I think surely surely can work in in general like also all of my strategies or the range breakout EA for example it's also a breakout strategy. I think breakout strategies really are something that can can definitely work also long term.

[00:33:41]>> Yeah I think the most important concept is that uh there are two types of strategies mean reversion and trend following. And I learn I learn I learned this from a very like smart guy from an MQF5 not not from you from an MQ5 moderator who was actually was a moderator is not a moderator anymore >> and he told me that this is this is the whole concept you you you have to decide what strategy you're trading either mini version or trend following and I think trend following systems are way easier to find for us at least for us traders mini reversion strategies are more like high frequency trading or pass trading or something like that or even grid. But trend following strategies like breakout strategies can work because the markets behave in a in a in a way that usually a trend will form and usually you will be able to exploit this trend.

[00:34:42]>> Yeah. and and and often you can get like catch like big moves which makes the like relation between cost and outcome like a little bit more favorable because the trading costs really are huge factor and that's I mean you also said it already before and we discussed this a few times like the trading costs really are so important and >> they are the only one they are the only >> people are not talking about this at all. Yeah. And a lot of people are like saying that the banks are against them and brokers are against them and they all want them to lose and only the only >> only uh enemy you have in trading is your own broker and is your own trading costs. I think I mean I wouldn't say they are your enemy but of course they are they also need to make money somehow and uh they they need to >> but that's what you have to beat. That's the only thing that you have to eat. If there are no cost then it's like >> you don't have to be banks you like banks do not hunt your stop loss and they >> no I don't think that >> but >> maybe if you have a very very fishy broker he might do it but >> usually I think brokers they don't even have the need to manipulate anything because people anyways will most people anyways will lose long term >> yeah because the odds are just against them because of the cost. Yeah, >> that's uh yeah, pretty pretty safe to say.

[00:36:04]>> So, yeah.

[00:36:05]>> So, I think whenever you whenever someone's testing a strategy, the higher the time frame and the higher the average holding period, let's say, the more likely it is to actually like resemble the correct behavior of the strategy in the back test. So, for example, if you exit like in a minute, there is almost no way.

[00:36:25]>> That's no way you were making money. No way.

[00:36:28]>> Yeah. Yeah, it's also hard to test this and and like have accurate tests like if you're too quick to in and out and and and everything. It's much more accurate.

[00:36:37]Like the test is much more accurate if you have like boring but like a little bit more long-term, a little bit more conservative strategies and uh I mean like the range breakout EA of course also uses stop orders but it the exit usually happens like just based on time.

[00:36:53]So you have quite accurate tests and that's I think how you can also like have a little bit more like confident in your confidence in your strategies and if you have these scalp strategies with the trailing stops and it's not it's not really reliable the test. So >> no no it's not reliable at all.

[00:37:08]>> So I would always recommend like boring strategies and more maybe even a little bit more long-term. That's actually I think no one is talking about this but it's important to mention >> of course no one is talking about it because trading gurus make money from the commission they get from the broker.

[00:37:24]>> Yeah. And also also another important aspect is that MQF5 or the company behind MQ5 wants you to purchase EAS.

[00:37:35]>> Yeah. Sure. And so if they skew the back test either in a positive or a negative way, they would choose to skew it in a positive way because then you would download the demo version of some EA, you would get a better back test and you will you are more likely to buy that product. Have you think you never thought about it?

[00:37:54]>> But but how is the meta quotes impacting the back test >> with the algorithm or >> with a thick algorithm for example?

[00:38:02]Yeah, but if you use the real ticks, then I think the ticks are really taking from the source. So, >> yeah, the tick.

[00:38:08]>> But yeah, true with the algorithm, they could. I didn't think about it, but I don't know if they're so cheeky, >> but yeah, it would be smart maybe. Yeah, >> you have to like if you're not using real ticks, you have to like in the end generate dicks for >> Of course. Of course. Yeah, I know there's an algorithm behind it, but >> if if you generate ticks, if you generate ticks, there will be a way to exploit that.

[00:38:32]>> Sure. Yeah, of course.

[00:38:33]>> Like you if you have an if you have an algorithm for generating ticks, if and someone sees this algorithm, they will be able to exploit it >> either this way or that way. Now trading now trading stops are the algorithm essentially that exploit this. Yeah, >> but if >> the thick generating algorithm was like looked otherwise, maybe a mini reversion type of strategy will exploit it.

[00:38:57]>> Yeah, I didn't think this way, but yeah, it's true. It's true.

[00:39:00]>> So, the seller could adapt his program to the algorithm somehow to make it Yeah, it's true.

[00:39:07]>> And also a lot of it, it's very funny because a lot of people actually recommend one minute open, high, low, close, back test whenever you're doing it. Yeah, >> there there are some who are literally recommending one minute open high low close back test. And I I >> I mean that doesn't make sense.

[00:39:22]>> It makes no sense.

[00:39:24]>> If you want to cheat yourself, yeah, you can. But >> yeah, the real word is not one minute open, high, low, close. That's >> It's funny because now if I try to find strategies or tests, I I actually do the exact opposite. And what I do is I I often try to find strategies that are opening like on the new bar open for example because then it's like there's a high probability that you get this price also in life and I I try to also like work a lot with times like open at specific times and close at specific times especially these times where there's no news event usually and for example like the goalong strategy which is also very simple strategy but it has like extremely good like uh like overlap with like the testing and the live results of course because it's like it's like so easy like you you open at a time in the night where there's no movement. So you you almost never get a slippage. You close in the night when there's no movements or no slippage and and this I think is is really the way to go. It's very boring. People don't like these kind of strategies, of course, but in my opinion, that's really what's what's working. And and what's not working is like the strategies that like trade extremely a lot, go in and out always like five times a day because then you basically just pay the broker and that's not really how it works. But yeah, I actually had an idea like what would be funny is if we could or if we need to check like if people like these kind of formats and if someone watches the whole thing, but we could also like together maybe have a look at some programs from the MQL5 market or something and just discuss like what's good, what's bad about it, what's like the >> That's a good idea. That's a good idea.

[00:41:04]>> The trip wires you need to avoid and uh something like that because you I know that you also like analyze and look a lot at the MQ5 market. I I also did it a while ago. I did some reviews for programs and it's it's funny to see what's going on like uh some of our friends on the M5 market like the sales strategies they have like setting up signals taking them offline and stuff like that and it's it's like the wild west but it's a it's really it's really interesting and yeah >> so it will be interesting hopefully someone will watch this and we're not >> yeah let's see let's see let's see >> Renie what do you think about this whole space and how this this this whole Forex trading group space like uh exploded and and why it transformed into this entertainment space that it is currently in. Actually, I'm not sure if it just uh exploded or came up recently. I think it was always there actually. And uh now, of course, it's just getting bigger and bigger because it's so easy easy to distribute your lies through social media. But I think it was always there like people were scamming each other always in like the financial industry.

[00:42:10]Before it was done through banks or like other brokers of course but now it's easier for individual trading gurus to scam especially because brokers are not regulated. You can do basically everything. you can fake everything and uh it's I mean it's a perfect I think there are like like this um online businesses usually try to um like uh work in one of the three big fields I think I don't know if you also dig deeper into this but usually it's about money it's about like personal improvement or like bodybuilding or stuff like that and it's also about dating and relationships I think these are the three topics that that work very well if you market them online and it makes sense because they are highly emotional. They are what like what what we consider like the the status in in the world that everyone wants and and money of course is a huge topic. So and and and how can you make money easily?

[00:43:07]>> Trading of course. So yeah, that's I think why it's so easy to like uh make make videos about it and and and >> yeah, but it's but it's sad because now we're we're not talking about education but entertainment because if you look at these streamers who are like >> trying to make money today streaming it on Twitch or whatever platform, >> yeah, >> they're essentially trying to entertain the audience. They are gambling with their own money and they're losing it.

[00:43:32]if if they lose some money, these professional like people who have the best mental uh like frameworks for trading, they're basically punching their own monitor. They're they're destroying their own desk and and it's ridiculous because it's all about entertainment. And it's the sad part about it is that probably not many people are going to watch this video compared to their videos because it's not it's not that entertaining even though >> should I punch the monitor?

[00:44:00]But even though I I think that it has more value to it than those those >> of I mean like the videos you talk about like these entertainment entertainment gurus they they don't have any message like they don't teach anything about trading. You cannot take anything away from it. I'm I'm sure there are like how can you learn from someone who is not really telling you like real rules that you can follow? like it's not helping you if you're saying like look at the market, try to analyze it and do this and that. And it's it's very like subjective. It cannot be repeated. And of course, it's only about entertainment because the way that you make money in this industry is about like it's about like selling products, selling courses, and working with brokers. And that's basically I mean I'm I'm the perfect example for it. I'm I'm I'm not even lying. I don't even have to lie because I show my uh track record and everything. I made money from it like and it's not even like little money like the last years it's public it's like 90,000 euro of actual profit but still I make way more money with like forex broker recommendations selling courses selling something and so so basically I could focus only on that and that's what these gurus do because they can make way more money for it and and it's ridiculous we also talk about it from time to times like brokers pay so much money and some people don't know this but brokers usually play pay like from €250 up to like €1,000 for one qualified like registration and it's insane. Like it's it's so much money and if these gurus make entertainment videos and for them actually I think it doesn't even matter if people believe them. It's just >> they need to sign up with a broker they promote or they need to buy the course because then it's immediately 500 euro.

[00:45:47]So, it's a it's a pretty simple mask.

[00:45:49]Like, if you can make like people watch your stream and I mean these people have like uh 2,000 viewers at the same time sometimes. And and like from my experience, it's like they must have like I I mean, I generate for my broker like 50 clicks a day or so or like a a few a few signups every day. And if they do like 10 times or 100 times this, like it's ridiculous how much money they make. Like really, it's like it's like millions every month. Like I'm not even exaggerating. I'm I'm sure it's millions a month.

[00:46:26]>> It's so crazy just from these uh broker affiliations. And >> at the same time, the broker they are promoting is >> way more sketchy. Yeah. Broker like >> a transparent guy would promote. And for this reason, they're probably also getting more money for for a referred client.

[00:46:46]>> True. True. Yeah. Yeah. So, it's Yeah.

[00:46:48]So, it also explains like it's and I always tell you this like it's a it's a little bit it's even less about like making >> actual like good content or like strategies that work. It's it's more about gaining the reach. And like really this uh online businesses they are just living off of reach. Like if you reach more people you can you can make more money.

[00:47:12]And it's it's really safe. Yeah. And the way to make reach more people is to promise them everything is to make entertaining content. Make content where you like I don't know destroy your Bugatti or crash your Lambo. And that's that's what people will watch.

[00:47:25]>> I should do that. I should destroy my Bugatti.

[00:47:27]>> You should destroy.

[00:47:30]>> But yeah, it's uh yeah it's it's crazy.

[00:47:33]And um it's I I really cannot wrap my head around it like like so many of these names were exposed online already >> and on on multiple independent sources like there are some gurus who were exposed by different YouTube channels with like actual proof like screenshots, Twitter posts, everything and still people believe them and still people want want to believe them. Actually, I think like I I mean I don't know if they really believe them or if they just want to believe them because they are say or they just want to live the like this dream or want to become rich people.

[00:48:13]It's I don't know. It's such a it's so weird.

[00:48:16]>> Yeah. It's it's people have to realize that the these are all playing on your own human instincts and emotions and and they're basically abusing these.

[00:48:25]>> Yeah. That's how how how the online marketing works and it's it's genius.

[00:48:29]Like it's really genius. like these trading gurus I I admire them because they make such a good marketing but I at the same time I just could not because >> same same >> I don't know I mean they they for sure know that many people are losing their money because of them >> I don't know how you can live such a lie but I mean >> yeah in the end maybe maybe we are stupid because we're not doing it I don't know >> yeah can be can be can be we just talking about it and maybe >> if we get smart enough 10 years from now will also be destroying your own Lambo.

[00:49:03]>> Yeah.

[00:49:04]>> So then what what is your what is your advice to people like what what YouTube channels should they follow? What what content should they watch?

[00:49:11]>> Actually they can follow any YouTube channel. The the the advice that I always give is like just think yourself.

[00:49:18]I mean why would you follow some gurus blindly without having actual proof?

[00:49:24]Like you can just ask anyone any guru like just to provide some like um like like proof that it's actually valid and you can just ask for like a my book documentation of course can also be faked if the broker is like from them for example but if it's a like reputable broker and it has a myfx uh uh account or something I think that's a pretty good proof already that it's it could be more true. But for for any of these trading gurus, you will not find like a ongoing proof on my fixbook. Some of them they set up like one year for example but then usually it ends after one year and it's not updating to the current day because they just took like one year which went very well and then they stopped trading this account and they use it like as a forever marketing tool because they say I made so much in this year and I've seen this for some gurus but but really that they have an ongoing account over like two three years no one has. So, so the thing that I would recommend to anyone is like to just not believe blindly. You can watch all sorts of content. You can test all sorts of content, but you should really do the due diligence yourself. You should test it. And the best way, of course, and it's so easy and it's accessible to anyone. You can just automate it. You can test it yourself. It doesn't cost anything. Like these days with AI, >> you you write one prompt and you can test the strategy. And that's the the it's it's also shocking me that so many people don't even want to put this minimum amount of effort and they are rather believing some online guru. They rather take like a a black box of an expert advisor. They use it without any testing and and even even though they have all of the tools and the possibility to just test it for 10 years and then use your brain and and think about it like could it be profitable in the future? And I think that's what you want to do and and yeah, just try try to learn about it. It's it's it's not a problem if you use a demo account first.

[00:51:29]Get some experience. But I I mean the only recommendation I always give is just don't be stupid. I mean just don't be just use your brain. It's I mean of course it's easy to say after many years of experience, but if you made the if you like landed on your nose for the first one or two times, then don't do it a third time. Just try to be more clever. try to do a little bit more like effort and research.

[00:51:53]>> I would even go as far to say that being pessimistic when you're looking at a trading group is actually good. Like you have to prove yourself wrong that your conception about it was was wrong at the first place. Like you the first thing you should think about the Forex trading guru is that he probably tries to scam you. I really think that.

[00:52:14]>> Of course. Of course. I mean >> you have you have to prove yourself wrong. Yeah, you have to like >> dive deep. It's a good uh >> good idea to tackle it from this angle.

[00:52:24]But yeah, most people are scamming and it's it's it's proven. It it makes sense and it's uh >> um it's sad but it is how it is and you you cannot you cannot fall for this and uh yeah I mean I would not trust anyone who is not giving proof like reliable proof that is um good and yeah.

[00:52:43]>> Okay. So thank you very much Renee for for having me.

[00:52:46]>> It was cool actually. I mean it was pretty spontaneous this time we can any time do it again if if someone is watching it until the end maybe if someone's watching it we should have like did you see like below videos sometimes they do like post this code word in the comments if you watched until the end so you can use one word and they need to put it in their comment below the video if they watched until this point just choose any word >> I don't know scan that's good okay I'm not sure if the YouTube algor will like If there are comments, scam, scam, scam. But yeah, if you watch until this point, write a comment and put scam somewhere in your comment and then we will see if someone watched until the end. That's that's funny actually. And then yeah, we can we can like if people like it, we can we can talk talk again like also about topics that someone asks for. But I think it's really cool to just have like a casual talk about trading. also share some like experiences and uh stuff that actually helps here and there but also make it like a very casual talk and just a conversation between like two traders and developers and then yeah it's cool.

[00:53:51]>> Yeah.

[00:53:52]>> Thank you very much.

[00:53:54]>> You're welcome. See you next time.

[00:53:55]>> See you in the next one.