Why Can’t Catholics & Orthodox Steelman Protestantism?

[00:00:00]All right. So, one of the most common responses by far that I received after my last video where I essentially explain what Protestants mean whenever we say that we're justified by faith alone. You know, they kind of look something like this. And I'll have this comment up on screen so that you can maybe pause the video and read through it. And I'm not going to lie to you, right? I must confess that comments like these are always incredibly frustrating for me to read through. And it's not because I don't think that they make some legitimate points or raise some legitimate questions that really need to be addressed. I think they certainly are some legitimate points and questions that, you know, we do need to address.

[00:00:40]But I think what makes these comments just so frustrating to me is that these comments don't actually engage with anything that I've actually said in the video. Instead, what I've noticed that they do is subtly shift the conversation into something else entirely that I really wasn't focusing on. And personally, I think that shift is very revealing in my opinion because you know what I actually think is that, you know, it kind of points to a much bigger problem in how many of these conversations between uh Protestants and Catholics and Orthodox, you know, how they kind of take place. You see, what I want everybody to kind of understand to bring some context into this whole situation is that my goal in that video wasn't exactly to try to prove Protestantism. And it wasn't even to try to argue against Catholicism more orthodoxy either. Neither one of those things were my goal. Rather, my goal was actually much much simpler than that.

[00:01:38]All I wanted to do, my friends, it was to try to explain to my Catholic and Orthodox listeners because I realized, you know, from engaging with a lot of y'all, especially after my video where I reacted to Jay Dyer in the Tucker Carlson interview, I realized that there was a big knowledge gap and some of you simply didn't understand what we meant by justification by faith alone. And so what I wanted to do in this video was try to explain to my Catholic and Orthodox Orthodox listeners what historic Protestants actually meant whenever we said that we're justified by faith alone. That's it. That's all I wanted to do. And so throughout that video, I intentionally made the executive decision to avoid doing things like using technical theological language and, you know, a lot of just unnecessary theological jar jargon because I wanted the barrier for entry, the barrier to just understanding this conversation to be as low as humanly possible, right? And so hence why you know I use different illustrations from things from everyday life and even from the Bible itself to kind of paint you this vivid picture of how exactly Protestants have, you know, historically articulated this doctrine because I wanted there to be as little confusion as humanly possible, right? Um, now whether or not you ultimately agree with me at the end of at the end of the video or not really wasn't my concern, right?

[00:03:12]My hope my this was my simple goal. My hope was that by the end of the video, you could at least say, "Okay, Janai, you know, I think I understand what Proence mean." Now, now I still disagree with you, but at least I understand you.

[00:03:29]For me, I thought that was a win. Right now, obviously, I would love for you to to agree with the doctrine of justification by faith alone, but I understand that's not always going to be possible, right? There's a journey that people have to go through through or whatever the case may be. And so, for me, I just was like, yo, if they at least understand where I'm coming from, that's a win for me. But instead of engaging with that actual explanation that I presented in that video, you know what I kept seeing? I kept seeing comments like this one. And again, I'll pause the video so you can go and read through it. And what I want you to notice is that notice how this person's response wasn't something to the effect of, "Okay, Jana, I understand your definition, but here's where I think you're wrong." No, [laughter] no, no, no, no. That would be much too simple, right? Instead, what this person's response was essentially, well, Janai, you have to understand that there are many Protestants who don't exactly define faith that way. And I'm like, "Okay, [laughter] like great point. Awesome point. But my friends, I need you to realize that you're not actually responding to my argument. I kind of noticed that."

[00:04:42]Right? What I want to know is what do you actually think about my argument?

[00:04:49]Right? How would a Catholic and Orthodox respond to the argument that I presented in said video? That's what I want to know. And so as I began reading more and more of these types of comments, you know, I kind of realized that there are really three different questions that we could all ask here. The first question, which I think is the more important question, is what does historic Protestantism teach? Right? That's the first question. Now the second question is what do some Protestants happen to believe? And the third question is how do individual Protestants personally understand this doctrine? Now, I want you to notice that all three of these questions are very different questions, right? My video was seeking to answer the first question on behalf of my Catholic and Orthodox listeners to kind of close that knowledge gap, right?

[00:05:39]Remember, that was my goal. However, comments like these immediately jump to the second and third questions in order to try to answer the first question, which really doesn't help anybody at all. eight. Now, as I say that, I want to make something I want to pause here and I just want to make something very very clear so that people don't hear what I'm not saying or just simply misunderstand what I am am saying. You see, I completely agree that there are a plethora of Protestants who just don't know how to explain justification by faith alone at all. Right? In fact, I've met them. I've interacted with them. I know that they exist. I know that there are people sitting in Protestant churches who speak of saving faith as though it's nothing more than just mere intellectual ascent or nothing more than just simply agreeing with a few facts about Jesus and saying, "Okay, I'm good.

[00:06:34]I'm saved." Right? I know those type of people exist. Right? I understand that there are so many Protestants who fall prey to the heresy of easy belieism and even antinomianism. Right? I don't want you to think that I'm denying that for a second. Right? I want to acknowledge that upfront because I don't want anybody thinking anybody leaving this video thinking that I'm trying to pretend that those type of people don't exist within Protestantism. You're not going to find that from me. I recognize again I've interacted with some of these people. But here's the question.

[00:07:10]This is a very important question.

[00:07:11]Here's a question I want you to think about and I mean this so sincerely. Uh so what [laughter] like rid me this my friends. How does the existence of these type of people who misunderstanding uh who misunderstand the doctrine of justification by faith alone suddenly become evidence that the doctrine itself teaches those misunderstandings? Like can you answer that question? because I don't think many people have thought about these things enough to even think to answer that type of question because if you do the answer is actually very simple it doesn't right think about it this way right I I find analogies like this are very helpful see I want you to imagine that I found 10 Catholics who couldn't explain accurately for me transubstantiation what that exactly is which by the way is a very difficult doctrine to thoroughly explain. So, they'll be forgiven for for not being able to do that. But let's say they couldn't, right? Would that then prove that the Catholic Church just doesn't know what it teaches about the Eucharist? Well, of course not, right?

[00:08:21]Every Catholic watching this video would rightly tell me, "Well, Janai, you of all people should know better than that, right? Come on, we expected more from you." Right? You know that you don't judge Catholic doctrine by poorly catechized Catholics, right? What do you do? you know this. You go to to the catechism, you go read the council of trend or you go read what the uh the Catholic Church officially teaches. Like that's what you do. You know that. And you know what? I would completely agree with you. I would say, you know what, man? I I don't know what got into me. I don't know. I feel like I've been up all night trying to crab these videos. I got sloppy in my reasoning and in my responses. You're right. But you know my question is this to my Catholic and Orthodox listeners especially those who are leaving these type of comments. You see why isn't the same standard being extended to us Protestants? That's the question I have. You see if someone wants to argue that historic Protestantism teaches something like easy belieism then my friends by all means go ahead and make that argument.

[00:09:26]But please, for the life of me, please do not point me to these random job blows, right, on YouTube or wherever you met them and say that this is what Protestantism had taught has historically taught, right? Don't point me to somebody sitting in a Baptist pew who can't articulate the gospel very well and say that, oh, this is Protestantism. Instead, what I want you to do, my friends, is simply show me uh his, you know, the different places where you will find historic Protestant beliefs, right? Show me Luther. Show me Calvin. Show me the Auguberg confession.

[00:10:00]Show me the Westminster confession. Show me the H Highleberg Catechism. So, show me the Belgic confession. Right? Show me where the Protestant tradition has officially taught that saving faith is nothing more than mere intellectual ascent or to a set of, you know, facts about Jesus. Show me that. Right? If that's what you honestly believe historic Protestantism has taught since the Reformation, right? Since the diet of worms, right, or something like that, right? then my humble appeal to you is that I just want you to demonstrate that for me because I don't think that you can. Right? In fact, I think many Catholics and Orthodox, if they're being really honest with themselves and not trying to engage in this sick game of selfdeception.

[00:10:53]I think many of you already know why you can't do that. It's because you understand that every historic Protestant convention explicitly reject rejects you know things like easy belieism and antinomianism right historic Protestantism has never taught that genuine faith genuine saving faith is mere intellectual ascent you know this right it is always taught that saving faith is a living trust in Christ a resting upon Christ a relying upon on Christ. And because that faith is living, it necessarily produces a transformed life. Right? And so in this framework, good works, my friends, are not the grounds of our justification.

[00:11:40]But and here it is because I feel like this is where a lot of Catholics and Orthodox just conveniently tune out.

[00:11:48]Although they're not the grounds of our justification, they are the inevitable, which means that it will come by necessity. They are the inevitable fruits of genuine saving faith.

[00:12:05]And my friends, I want you to understand that that's not my personal definition.

[00:12:09]I didn't just come up with this all by my lonesome. [laughter] Like I don't I I appreciate that you think that that's actually what happened here, but no, that's not true. Right? That's just the historic Protestant definition. You see, that's the target that I think you need to aim for in your critiques of Protestantism. And if you can't reach that target, if that target is just too high outside of your reach for you, then guess what? I don't think you've earned the right to critique the Protestant position at all then. Right now, I know that sounds a bit strong, right, for some of my listeners out there, but I want you to hear me out here. You see, this is exactly what I've been trying to encourage throughout all of my videos.

[00:12:49]If you kind of notice, if I'm going to critique something like infallibility, and by the way, I still have a few more videos that are eventually going to come out. I've kind of got sidetracked with this justification by faithful loan debate ever since that J Dyer uh video.

[00:13:08]Um, but you know, if I'm going to critique something like people infallibility, where would I start?

[00:13:13]Right? Well, if I'm trying to engage uh honestly with this topic, right? If I want to know, you know, whether or not it's actually true, I don't just start with some random Catholic on YouTube or even a Catholic apologist. No. Uh, you know, I don't start with any of that. I And I certainly don't start with the weakest explanation that I could find, right? rather what do I do? I start with Vatican 1 itself, right? I start with the catechism. I start with the official sources that Catholics themselves would point to me uh would point me to and say, "Okay, Janai, if you want to understand what we mean by papal infallibility, how that's substantiated, etc., etc." Right? This is what my church teaches. And why would you do that? It's because we understand that nobody gets any pleasure out of tearing down a straw man. The only people that get pleasure at tearing down straw men is people who just either have low IQ's or honestly they have big egos that need to be fed, right? Those are the only people that get pleasure out of tearing down straw men. for us who engage intellectually uh who engage honestly intellectually in these conversations we don't get any pleasure at all right um because honestly if all I can do is dismantle the weakest version of someone else's argument then I really haven't accomplished anything at all right more than that I think it actually communicates something about me does it not right I think it kind of tells me that maybe I can't answer the strongest version of your argument. Right now, I'm not trying to psychoanalyze anybody here, right? I don't know anybody's motives, nor do I care to know anybody's motives. Um, but I do want you to understand that that is the impression that it leaves whenever you do that. And and so I want my Catholic and Orthodox listeners to understand something here because I really do mean this necessarily.

[00:15:20]When I spend an entire video carefully, right, deliberately defining what Protestants actually believe about this or that doctrine and then I see one of you continually attack some other weaker version of that doctrine. again in a in regards to solid. If I see you continually attacking easy belieism as though that's what I just defended, you know, the message that that sends to me is that you really don't have an answer to the position that I just articulated.

[00:15:53]That's what it kind of communicates. I want y'all to know that. And not just to me, but to everybody else that's looking on, you know, and seeing your comments, right? In other words, I almost feel like you just this is your way of validating the Protestant position by just refusing to engage with it. Because if the position that I pres presented to you were really that easy to refute, then my friends have something very simple that you can do. Why not refute it, [laughter] right? Why keep returning to a position that I've already rejected? like I'm I'm agreeing with you that that's a stupid position. Like and so why are we why are you telling me that hey this is your position? I'm like no and and you know what maybe in an illustration it can help here, right? I want you to imagine if I just completely flipped the tables on this conversation, right? And so imagine I made a video saying, you know, Catholics and Orthodox are basically just plagiians, right?

[00:16:51]They believe people work their way into heaven. Therefore, their entire religion is just false. It's a scam. It's it's a fraud, etc., etc., right? Imagine if I did that. Um, now I also want you to imagine that, you know, maybe different Catholics and Orthodox respond in the comment section by saying, "No, Jana, that's not actually what we believe at all." Right? We don't believe that we earn our salvation apart from the grace of God. Right? As Catholics, we believe that God's grace comes first and that we must cooperate with that grace, right, in order to, you know, be saved. And as Orthodox Christians, you may say something like, you know, we believe salvation is a kind of participation in God's work within us, right? And so, both of you would probably be in the comments saying that, "Hey, we reject Palagianism just as much as you do." And I just wanted you to imagine that after hearing all of those corrections, right? All of those comments in the comment section, I still responded to each and every one of them by saying, "Yeah, but you know, there's so many Catholics and Orthodox who do think that they can work their way into heaven." And so, I'm just going to keep saying that's what cath Catholicism and Orthodoxy teach, right? Does that sound good to you? Right? Wouldn't that be frustrating, my friends? Well, of course it would, right? You probably look at me and say, Janai, you know, I'm going to unsubscribe for you from from you because you're not interacting with our actual position anymore. You're interacting with a what? A caricature, a straw man. And guess what, my friends, you'd be absolutely right. Right? You're probably telling me, "Look, don't judge our theology by the least informed person that you've met online or whatever the case may be." No, judge it by what our church actually teaches. And again, I would agree with you. And so, all I'm asking at the end of the day is that you just extend that same exact common courtesy to Protestants. Is that so hard to do? Right. If you meet someone who can't sufficiently explain justification very well, maybe they're a brand new Christian, right? Maybe they never been discipled, maybe they simply are confused, right? Maybe they're nominal, right? Every single one of our traditions have people like that. I don't know why, you know, many of these comments don't come to those type of conclusions, right? or or you know hypothesize of you know maybe this is the reason why they said this or you reason why they articulated like this, right? Nobody does that, right? And so my question is why do you immediately jump to the conclusion that must be uh what the tradition teaches? Like why not choose one of these more charitable explanations first, right? Why not ask, is this actually what Protestantism has taught or is this someone just misunderstanding what Protestantism has historically taught? Because that's exactly the grace that I tried to extend to Catholicism in Orthodoxy, right? And and many of you know because many of you I have actually told you like hey I don't know if you know this but your church actually teaches this that and the other right and so I try to tell you like hey this is what you should really be saying is I re recognize that not everybody I engage with is a Trent Horn or a Jay Dyer or a Joe Heshmire or whatever the case may be. Not everybody is one of these theological nerds who are online and just are neck deep [laughter] in all of these different sources and stuff like that. I recognize not everybody's like that. And so I extend grace because that's what you do, right?

[00:20:51]And so here's why I think that matters so much to me. You see, at the end of my last video, I said that if we are followers of Christ, then this is really just about obeying the golden rule, which is something that was instituted by Christ, right? What is the golden rule? Well, treat others the way that you would want to be treated, right?

[00:21:11]Represent others to make it fit this conversation. Represent others the way that you would want to be represented.

[00:21:18]It's a simple rule actually. And ironically, you know, one of the most common responses that I saw was Catholics and Orthodox tell me, "Well, Jana, I don't know if you Protestants know because again, they're thinking that we believe in this type of easy belieism that you don't need to uh be obedient, that you don't need to produce good works." And so, I've seen so many of these comments say that, "Well, I'll have you know that obeying Christ's commands is very important. Jesus said, "If you love me, you'll keep my commandments." And my response is like, "Dude, I don't deny that." [laughter] Like, I don't Who are you? What video did you watch? Right.

[00:22:00]Um, in fact, I actually spent an entire portion of my video explaining that good works are vitally important. My only argument was that they are the fruit of our justification, not the basis of it.

[00:22:14]Just as a reminder. Uh but the reason why I bring this up is that I actually just want to step into your framework for just a moment.

[00:22:22]You see, if you actually believe, if you really believe that obedience to Christ plays a vital role in your final justification, right? Then my friends, I just need you to understand that you have an even greater incentive to obey Christ's cor commands here. you have a greater incentive to obey the golden rule because your justification literally depends on it. Right? And so, wouldn't loving your neighbor include representing your neighbor accurately?

[00:22:52]Right? Wouldn't doing unto others as you would have them do unto you? Would it include refusing to knowingly argue against positions that they've already rejected? Right? Wouldn't loving your enemies include making sure you, I don't know, properly understand what they actually believe before you criticize them? Wouldn't it entail all of those things? You see, those are the questions that I think every single one of us should wrestle with. Right now, I want to be very clear one last time. You see, I am not talking about every single Catholic and every single Orthodox Christian that I've ever engaged with, right? In fact, some of my favorite interactions on YouTube uh have actually been with Catholics and Orthodox, right, who've been who are typically intellectually honest in their dealings with my argument, right? I actually have I want to say about 10 people, 10 Catholics and Orthodox that I really look forward to their comments. I don't know the usernames right off the top of my head, but they're honestly fantastic.

[00:24:01]Um, you know, and I I always look forward to engaging with them. Hopefully that list can grow. But those are just some of the people that I'm I'm just kind of thinking out think thinking out loud about.

[00:24:13]Um, and I, you know, I kind of noticed that even when we strongly disagree, I still leave those conversations just encouraged because I know that they did the very simple thing and that they have listened before they actually responded.

[00:24:28]And my friends, that's all I'm asking, right? I'm not asking you to write a book in the comment section. I'm not asking you to do whatever the case may be. I'm just asking you to engage with my actual argument. Look, if we're going to disagree, let's just disagree honestly, right? If we're going to critique one another, let's critique one another's strongest arguments. And if we see people in our own traditions resorting to these stupid, brain deadad, straw men that nobody holds, right? Then let's have the courage to lovingly correct them, my friends, right? Because that's what Christ would want us to do.

[00:25:08]Because here's what I believe. If your position is true, then it doesn't need a straw man to defend it, right? Truth can actually stand on its own. And so, let's just agree to raise the level of these conversations between Protestants and Catholics and Orthodox, right? I think every single one of us should kind of want that, you know. Uh I don't know about you, maybe I'm alone in this, but in the comment section, let me know if that's something that you actually want.

[00:25:35]Look, if Protestantism is false, then guess what? All you got to do is simply refute what Protestantism actually teaches. If Catholicism is false, then refute what Catholicism actually teaches. If orthodoxy is false, then guess what? Refute what orthodoxy teaches. But let's agree to stop trying to defeat positions that the other side has already explicitly rejected because that literally helps no one involved. I think one thing that we can all agree on because I'm going to use Mormons uh Mormonism as an example, right? More if you're a Mormon watching this, look, I'm sorry, but I'm not sorry, right? As Protestants, Catholics, and Orthodox, we would all agree that Mormonism is a false religion. Okay? There would really be no debate over that.

[00:26:27]What do we do in regards to Mormonism or even with Islam, right? Do we have to kind of mischaracterize their ideas to refute them? No. It's actually very simple in order to like, oh yo, let me actually steal man your position and let me show you why it's just incoherent.

[00:26:49]You know, you you see how simply simple that is when it comes to these obviously false religions, at least to us. Well, guess what? If you think Catholicism is false or orthodoxy is false or Protestantism is false, whatever tradition that you personally hold to and that you think the other uh tradition is false, then guess what? You should be able to demonstrate that, you know, um you should be able to do so by still manning the other person's position. All right. Anyways, I'm not going to belabor this point. Those are my thoughts, guys. I genuinely love to hear your thoughts down in the comment section below. Um, look, if you think I'm wrong in this, tell me why, right?

[00:27:29]Uh, but please, for the life of me, engage what I've actually argued thus far, okay? Um, and if you enjoyed this video and want more conversations like this, please be sure to do all those usual things, like, share, hype, you know, subscribe to the channel, share the video, as it really does help the channel out a lot. And until next time, guys, [music] peace.

[00:27:56]>> [music] >> Hey,