This discussion masterfully replaces the stigma of "laziness" with a clear, neurobiological understanding of executive dysfunction. It offers a vital framework for turning self-shame into actionable self-awareness and cognitive empowerment.
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We Have ADHD ft. Jessica McCabe EP. 381Added:
But someone could just like trends and someone could just be late and it's like just because you're chronically late or chronically can't like focus or whatever, it doesn't mean you have it.
But people love to be like, "I'm sorry, I can't." Quick, I have autism.
>> Yeah.
>> Are you on outer right now? You just gave a worldrenowned monologue on why you don't have it when everything you just said has says you have it.
>> Sorry. Are we in? Are we in? Are we in?
Are we in?
>> Add a roll.
>> Yeah. All right.
>> Where do we start? Where do we fall?
>> Should we intro real quick?
>> Yes.
>> Jessica McCabe. Okay. I mean, ADD expert. Well, how would you label yourself?
>> Well, I thought it was ADD when I started looking into it and then I found out it's ADHD now. I >> It just changed out of letter. It changed it. Well, there was AD.
>> There's a lot of add a letter time now.
Everything's ADHD now. It's just different presentations. Thank you. I know how to I promise I know how to use a mic.
>> I pro Yeah.
>> Uh it's different presentations. So there's a primarily inattentive presentation, a primarily hyperactive impulsive, and then there's combined type, which is basically you would qualify for both.
>> So the H in there is like a more ex like a more extreme.
>> No, the H the H is just Okay. ADHD is a terrible name for ADHD. And this is just widely accepted now.
>> Here we go.
>> Throw them under the bus. Superman, you listen?
>> Yeah. Doctors, idiots.
>> I'll I'll spill a tea. No, it's not the doctors. ADHD is a terrible name for ADHD because it's attention deficit hyperactivity disorder, right?
>> Yep.
>> You don't have to be hyperactive to have it and it's not an attention.
>> So, you can be lazy with it.
>> Uh, okay. That's a whole thing. So, you you just Yes. All right. So, the lazy thing implies it's about effort, right?
Most people with ADHD are trying so much harder than their neurotypical peers.
>> It's not about effort. So, trying harder isn't the thing. It's not that we're lazy. If you were lazy, you'd be enjoying it more, >> right? Like if you're trying to do the thing and you're struggling to do the thing, that's not laziness. That's executive dysfunction.
>> Mhm.
>> Oh.
>> So, what's interesting is I was in college at one point. Hard to believe, but I would uh graduate, you know, on big >> joking. I was a film major, you know, a lot a lot of late night editing and I would take um aderall from a friend and then the person who was prescribed it would almost say like, "Yeah, sometimes I can take this and go right to sleep."
So, how does Adderall make some people tired, but some people like me feel like I can see atoms and particles?
>> So, this is an interesting thing. So, a lot of times people with ADHD will be more hyperactive as a way to kind of counter the fact that their brain is under stimulated. So you end up being more hyperactive as a way to kind of try to break wake your So you end up being more hyperactive as a way to kind of try to wake your brain up. If your brain's getting the stimulation that it needs from say aderall then you don't need to do you know ridiculous say horribly offensive things to the person next to you just to stimulate your brain enough to be able to pay attention.
>> So that so that's where the the hyperactiveness comes from because your brain is sort of firing. Yeah. Explain that to me. So, okay. So, it's it's complicated, but that is one thing that happens. And it's definitely true for me. The as it gets later, as my meds are wearing off, I end up getting more hyperactive, not just because my meds are wearing off, but because I'm tired, right? If your brain is chronically under stimulated, your brain is going to seek the stimulation that it needs. And it can do that in lots of different ways. Um, it can do it through caffeine.
It can do it through um through uh waiting till the last second until everything is a crisis so that your brain kind of gets the stimulation it needs and kicks into gear. It can it can get it through saying wildly offensive things and then putting it out on the internet and seeing what happens.
>> Sne um but no but a lot a lot of people Okay, so this is an interesting thing.
Not it doesn't work for everybody with ADHD, but there are doctors who will prescribe stimulant medication as a nighttime dose in order to help people sleep. Not only because it calms their brain down, but also because it can help them get through something like a bedtime routine. If you're struggling to stop doing what you're doing, if you're if you're playing video games and your brain is not able to stop and switch gears and go find something to wear to bed and go brush your teeth or whatever, if you're on medication at that time of night, it can help.
>> Okay. So, I have a question about that.
>> I have a 100 questions. Go ahead.
>> Sometimes I am so tired, but the thought of getting ready for bed is more tiring.
So then I'll just keep scrolling on the couch or something and I'm like I know I want to go to sleep but then it's like well then I got to go and you know make sure the cat has food, cat has water, and then I got to brush my teeth and wash my face. Like are those kind of what you're talking about or is that just me being lazy?
>> No, you're it's not it's not laziness.
If if you if you're like, you know what, I could do all that but I'm just not going to. Okay, that's laziness, right?
But like probably you're trying to you're trying to convince yourself to do something. Look, what ADHD is at its core is executive dysfunction. It's an executive function issue, which means your brain is not doing what you are trying to tell it to do. You know that you want to get up. You don't even want to be scrolling anymore, but maybe you're stuck in hyperfocus. Maybe um it's a diff it's a an issue with task initiation. You're trying to get started in transitioning to bed, but you're having trouble getting started. It feels overwhelming or daunting the prospect of even making that transition. And difficulty with task initiation is a really common thing with ADHD.
>> You said you use the word um like hyperfocus, right? And I think that's like a that has a really positive connotation, right? So it's like so does that like hyperactivity or hyperfocus?
Isn't that like a isn't that like an amazing thing to have? Which brings me to my next question, which is like is ADHD like it has this it has this bad connotation like if you have it, it's it's bad. you you're you're you're lazy or you can't focus on anything or whatever. But isn't it like I guess what I'm saying is like do I want it >> good for the arts?
>> It sounds it and >> do you feel left out a little bit? Are you like >> no no but like >> your father did leave him after.
>> Yeah, he did. Maybe maybe my dad had ADHD. Maybe he wanted to be a good dad and he was like he couldn't he couldn't focus >> on Florida.
>> Bokeh. They have good pain meds.
>> All right. All right. Okay. That's a lot of that's a lot of questions.
First of all, is hyperfocus a good thing?
>> Right? Okay. So, hyperfocus is a double-edged sword.
>> If if anybody doesn't know what we're talking about, hyperfocus is basically you get into such a deep flow that you can't pull yourself away. Um, I hyperfocused on preparing for this show.
I meant to do it for like half an hour, 6 hours later, I was like, "This show is amazing and what do I do this? What if I said that?" And yeah, so but it it's a double-edged sword, right? Like I came in feeling very prepared, but also I forgot to eat lunch. You know what I mean? Like it it can be good, but also you don't need >> it can be good if what you're working on, what you're focusing on is what you want to be working on, what you want to be focusing on. But there sometimes comes a point where it's not even fun for you anymore. You don't even want to be doing it anymore. You just can't switch your attention away. And this is one of the biggest things that people get wrong about ADHD is they think it's an attention deficit because it's literally in the name. It's not an attention deficit. It's about inconsistent attention. It's about It's not that you can't focus. It's that you can't control what you're focused on.
>> Okay. So, I think I relate to what you just said a lot. We both do. We talk about how eating is annoying >> and we're like we're trying to accomplish so much in a day that we're like, "I'll eat later. I'll eat later.
I'll eat later." All of a sudden, it's 6 p.m. and you're like, "I've had a nutrient bar." And you're you're almost mad at yourself that you're hungry, but you're not listening to your body because you're so focused on getting tasks done. Is that kind of the realm you're talking about?
>> It's very common, very common experience with ADHD. Part of it is you might not even notice that you're hungry or that I don't know it's now dark outside, right?
Because you're so locked in, you're so in the zone, but then task switching, right? Or, you know, starting to do something else. Starting and stopping are both really hard for people with ADHD depending on how engaging the thing is that you're doing.
>> Wow. I think I've just unlocked something because sometimes I um when I first started making videos on YouTube, I used to edit all them myself and I would like I don't want to do it. I don't want to do it. I don't want to do And then I I would be like finally open my laptop at like midnight and then I'd edit from like midnight to like 4:00 a.m. But those four hours I was laser focused in because the thought of like well it's all these different video files and audio tracks and color and like the the the thought of starting it was a pain in the ass. But then once I'm in it it's like a puzzle piece and I and I and I love doing it >> right because initia cuts both ways. If you're not working on the thing that inertia of I'm not doing anything it's easier to keep not doing anything or keep doing what you're doing. And then once you start doing it then that inertia starts working in your favor.
Now I am doing the thing that I need to be doing and then the motivation starts to happen. Right? So this is something people get wrong about motivation a lot of the time is you think you have to be motivated to do the thing in order to do the thing. Oftentimes it works in reverse. You end up being motivated to do the thing after you start doing the thing. So, it's just it's just that it's just that little magnetism in between stopping and starting like it's hard to just get it's hard to it's hard I mean I'm just echoing what you're saying right it's just it's very it feels very hard to start and very hard to stop but in that like laser focus of the four he's editing or we're editing or whatever like that's that's an incredible like superpower so it's like this weird thing where it sounds back to my initial question it sounds bad to have ADHD ADHD is like, "Oh, I don't want that. It sounds bad." But like it does come with incredible uh like elements.
>> It can be. There are aspects of ADHD.
They're traits that can be strengths in the right contexts. Right? So, if you come up with wildly creative ideas and impulsively say whatever is on your mind, that can be great for a comedy podcast.
>> Less great if you're trying to work at a corporate job >> or be in a relationship.
>> Or be in a relationship. Right. And which is where we get to Right. which is where we get to why somebody might want to look into these issues if they are having them is when it starts to impair their lives, when it starts to run their lives, when it starts to limit their options, when it's starting to lead to losing jobs, losing relationships, if it if it is costing you, then that's the point at which you really want to look into it because even people who are very ADHD, even people with, you know, severe ADHD who have all of the symptomology can lead a very fulfilling life if they have the right job, if they have the right partner, if they're getting the right support. Um, but if you're trying to work in a way that doesn't work for your brain, a lot can go wrong.
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Damn. Okay.
>> So, what are some of these traits where you see it starts to veer people's life in that negative direction where it's like affecting someone's life?
>> The biggest one, according to Dr. Russell Barkley, who's a huge ADHD researcher, is emotional impulsivity.
So, emotion dysregulation is common with ADHD where you are feeling maybe what somebody else would feel in that situation, but you have a harder time regulating that emotion and you're going to impulsively react to the raw emotion.
So, like if somebody cuts you off on the freeway, >> anybody would get upset about that, right? Anybody would be upset that somebody cut them off on the freeway, but if you have ADHD, you you might impulsively react and swerve around the guy and flip him off and start yelling and Right.
>> I'm I'm telling you. I'm telling you right now, you're talking and I'm picking these like little cherries out of what you're saying and I'm like I don't think like off funny for a second.
I don't think I have it but as you're talking I go honestly maybe I don't.
>> First steps to uh denial.
>> Yeah, there you go. I mean, maybe like that you what you just explained and then and then it happens and then I want to I want to kill the like I want to kill them dead like not even oh funny funny dead and then I ruminate about it for two hours as I'm driving and I'm like and then I and then I have this moment where I come out of it I'm like what am I doing but like so I do have the ability to come out of it like okay what am I doing this is insane but like we're talking about I lose Like I've been in 200,000 almost fights I call them because nothing happens but I'm but like there's a famous one on the show where like someone I mean long story but someone was like talking someone said that I can't have my dog in the 7-Eleven blah blah blah. I put I got so mad I put the dog down. The dog was like four months at a time on the ground in 7-Eleven and was going to fight somebody.
>> What stopped you?
Um, I don't I don't have an answer for that.
Maybe I knew secretly deep down that everyone knows MMA and I I don't want to get my ass beat in front of my >> It's a 7-Eleven.
>> Yeah. I mean, dude, this was a whole you can win. But the guy's holding a taquito in his [ __ ] You know what I mean?
It's like then I mean, how embarrassing that my dog's never going to respect me again. But like >> Yeah. I mean, then I went into my car >> and waited for him outside.
>> Yeah.
>> And then And then I had that moment. And then I had Yeah. Yeah. And then I had that moment where I come out of it slowly and I go, "Oh, what am I doing?"
Like, "What am I doing?" It's in the height of CO. It's that was what it was.
He told me to put a mask on and I >> You're a Republican.
>> Correct. Look, turn around. Red.
>> Holy [ __ ] >> I know. Um, we're joking. Um, but yeah, so it's it's it's interesting because you're saying like all these like little things and in my head if you ask me off funny, I'm like I honestly don't think I have it. But then it's like I don't know. I I don't know. And that brings my next thing. I'm sorry I'm throwing so much at you. It brings my next thing.
It's like I think it's so popular now, especially the the age of social media, to be like, I have autism. I have ADHD.
Oh no, I forgot my keys. I immediately have ADHD. Or, oh no, I like trains. I have autism. Like, but someone could just like trains and someone could just be late. And it's like just because you're chronically late or chronically can't like focus or whatever, it doesn't mean you have it. But people love to be like, "I'm sorry I came quick. I have autism."
>> Yeah.
>> Are you on aderall right now? You just gave a worldrenowned monologue on why you don't have it when everything you just said has says you have it.
>> No. What he's grappling with though is is real, right? It's you you come across this stuff and it's super relatable and you're like, "Oh god, if this is ADHD, maybe I have ADHD." Right? Here's the thing. Every ADHD behavior is human behavior. There's nothing that's unique to ADHD. What's different is is it running your life? It's a difference between this happens sometimes and this is how I function.
>> Okay, I understand. Like once those like impulses start like impacting like it's like oh I'm a late person. All right, fine. That's okay. But then you're like, oh, I'm four hours late. My kid was born and I wasn't there. Like that's a problem.
>> And that's the impairment, right? So it's it's what is it costing you?
because it you wouldn't qualify for a diagnosis if you're like this is how I am but everything in my life is fine right if if it's not impairing your life then why do you need to treat it >> right >> but for people with ADHD often the consequences are really extreme in the moment it can be hilarious right like >> it can be really funny some of the stuff that we struggle with the fact that like I I leave and have to run back into my house 17 times is funny and I can laugh at it and I used to um I briefly did standup comedy once once I was like I just want to try very briefly. I took a I took a standup comedy course. I got to perform at the uh at the comedy club or whatever. I forget what it was even called now. But um >> what's what city >> in LA? Okay. Um it was one of the big ones, but >> comedy store.
>> What's that?
>> Comedy store.
>> Yeah, it was the comedy store, but like upstairs, but I got to do I got to do >> another one room.
>> Um but but I joked about it and I ended up having to take this down like my standup routine. It was funny. It made people laugh, but I ended up taking it down because I was joking about my own ADHD.
and understood how it was. And I was joking about it as if it was a personality.
>> I didn't realize the impact that it was long term.
>> How quickly are you able to pick up on it for somebody just out in the wild? If you're talking to like a barista or meeting somebody at a social gathering, is it pretty quick or is it pretty hidden?
>> I I have ADHD. Uh I >> ADHD door. Yeah.
>> Um I can't diagnose, but I have suggested to several Uber drivers that they get checked out.
>> Well, Uber drivers need a full spectrum of diagnosis, starting with schizophrenia. Yeah. They're always on the phone with somebody and they're always talking, but they're never letting the other person respond.
>> Never.
>> They're having a They're having a podcast by themselves.
>> Every taxi driver in the city of New York.
>> What's your taxi driver? What?
>> It never happens.
>> Every taxi driver.
>> So many times. I mean, we're in Ubers constantly. Um, but I feel like I always get in the car and there just there's a Bluetooth headset and they're whispering at a tone where I'm like, "Is he an ASMR expert?" He's like, "Yeah, >> I feel like your producer is messing with you just requesting the same like three people that >> it might be." But I I to the point where I uh said it at a show in New York and everyone was like, "Yes, you get it."
And I was so confused, but just so long-winded conversations and the other person's never talking. They're never breaking.
>> But dude, I had to get this weekend. I had to get an Uber from uh Dayton, Ohio to Cincinnati. Weird sentence, but that's what happened. It's like sad and weird. But it was an hour and a half, right? And to I had my flight was at 6:15 in the morning, eat a gun. So they had to pick me up at 3 in the morning.
Okay.
>> 3 in the morning. That's why that's fire everybody around you on a thousand. Long story. I'll get into it.
>> You ever heard of aderall?
>> Give it to me.
>> Uber.
>> Uber. So I'm in there. Oh, we're doing it now. So I'm in the Uber, right? I sit in. very nice guy. He turns around before we go, right? He goes, "Hey, do you mind if I call my wife?" And immediately I go, "Of course." And then I go, "It is 3:00 in the morning. Why is she awake?
>> Why is she awake?
>> Why is she awake? What's happening? Is she in a cage? Why are you talking to her at 3:00 in the morning?" My man talked to his wife from 3:00 in the morning till 4:30 in the morning.
>> The ent No, no. Thank god he had an AirPod on the whole ride. And I'm like, first of all, he didn't stop talking.
Here's what we're talking about. Hour and a half.
>> His wife's dead >> for sure. He was calling the grave.
>> He was talking to his kitty cat.
>> There's one AirPod on her grave.
>> Oh. Oh, that's really sad, but very funny.
>> Okay. You don't have to take it.
>> And she's like, I know. I didn't have to make it real.
>> Um, what the [ __ ] Uber drivers, you said that you have not diagnosed, but you have talked to some >> ADHDR.
>> Yes, ADHDR.
>> I I've talked to some and I'm like, okay, that's, you know, that's a that's suspicious. That's suspicious. That's suspicious.
>> What's the first two that they're an Uber driver?
>> Okay, >> everyone laugh. I'm joking.
>> All right. No, but actually, uh, >> no, I'm joking. I'm joking.
>> We gravitate towards certain professions. I I'll put it that way.
>> I WAS A LIFT DRIVER. I WAS A LIFT DRIVER for two years. I have Well, I have ADHD, so that doesn't that doesn't help.
>> Did you just self diagnose yourself after saying it for not long?
>> Yeah.
>> You don't know if you have ADHD. I actually saw your screener. I haven't seen yours yet.
>> Yeah, I wanted to do it on the show.
>> Okay.
>> That way we can get live reactions.
>> I'm very curious. But I want to I want to point out that that okay there's there's a normal level of struggling with these with these things and then there's ADHD level like your diagnosible level of struggling but then there's also like sub threshold which means you might struggle more than the average person but not enough to get a diagnosis.
>> Yeah.
>> So people can kind of fall all over the map. And here's the cool thing. You don't actually have to have a diagnosis in order to benefit from the strategies.
Right.
>> Oh you anybody can use the strategies.
>> Yeah. If you need meds then yeah you need a diagnosis. You need a doctor's prescription, right?
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>> But my entire channel is based on tools that anybody could use and and people do, right?
>> You don't need like a medication card number to get into your channel. It's just there, right? People just watch it.
Sometimes they didn't even choose to watch it. YouTube's just like, "You should watch this." And they're like, "Why does YouTube think I have ADHD?"
>> And then it turns out they do. But in the meantime, they can use these tools.
They can use these strategies.
>> Oh, wow. So that I that's makes so much sense. I'm fascinated by that because I think that's where we probably fall into where we have like the the impulses or whatever, but not enough where it's like impacting our lives. But like so if you sat down with someone, hence us, what would be like kind of the first thing that you would like recommend in that realm of like you don't have it, but these are maybe the top like one or two things that you should maybe look into doing to like improve your life.
>> Well, I looked at your screener and I thought, >> let's break it down.
>> It's cool. Yeah, we'll bring we're going to break it down. I took a picture. Here we go.
>> We break it down.
>> Yeah.
>> She has swasters on it. Okay. No.
>> Um, >> no one's laughing today. Great. So >> I was reading the chart.
>> Yeah. So, okay, I I sent you two. So, the ASRS5 and adult ADHD self-report scale. And by the way, this is it's a screener. It's not it's not a diagnosis.
It's not like if you score high enough, you have ADHD.
>> So, I can't go to like a CVS pharmacy and be like meds.
>> Yeah, you definitely.
But it it can be a useful way of seeing are am I scoring high enough on these things that it makes sense to talk to a doctor and see what's see what's going on here.
>> Got it. Got it. Got it. Um, so yeah, we have the AS ASRS5.
Um, >> can I ask you a really quick question?
How come all these ADHD uh acronyms are so hard to say?
>> I feel like it's so hard to say for people that have trouble focusing. Let's fix.
>> You ever heard the word lisp?
>> That's what I'm saying.
>> There's an S in it.
>> I mean, I don't know. There's an S.
>> Did you see how long the instructions were for the ASRS V1? didn't read a moment of it, >> but maybe that's a part of the test if you don't read it >> or you can't say it.
>> Like I took an autism test on this uh podcast and I was like this is too many questions and I think that's a part of it.
>> We both have autism.
>> Can you >> not me?
We we we like we were like we didn't place but we were like honorable mention.
>> No, no, dude. I think we have it.
>> It was a Wait, hang on. It was a screener or >> it was like an online test. We had to pay n like 99 cents to get results. I'm like, I don't think it's accurate.
>> You had to pay 99 cents. Okay. I I'm very curious what you took.
>> Autism. But no, I'm going to I'm going to look at I'm going to look at the ASRS5 first of all, cuz that there were a couple things that came up on that.
So, yes.
>> How often do you have difficulty concentrating on what people say to you even when they are speaking to you directly sometimes? Okay.
>> Crushing. No one's laughing. You're doing great. Sorry.
>> Uh how of Okay. How >> I was playing the joke. She was talking and the question was like, "Oh, do you ever have trouble focusing when someone?" And then I go and then I said, "What? Wait, did Trevor actually get distracted and miss that?
>> No, I'm joking.
>> Maybe, maybe a little bit.
>> How often do you leave your seat in meetings or other situations in which you expected to remain seated? You said never. You said never.
>> Hey guys, for the old people, I I got up and left.
>> I don't ever do that cuz I Yeah, >> Jack, put it in a lab track.
>> But here but here is where you said often, right? How often do you have difficulty unwinding and relaxing when you have time to yourself?
>> All the time.
>> Okay. And then also, how often do you put things off until the last minute?
>> Uh Uh, more than sometimes. You already answered. Yeah. Yeah, I know. You did.
You answered.
>> So, you asked me where I would start, right? So, like you were thinking about it.
>> I was.
>> How often do you put things off to the last minute? Often, right? So, like what how does how does that how does that go down for you?
>> It really depends on what it is. If I if it's like a thing that I'm very interested in, I I won't. But if it's a thing that I think about and I'm like, "Wow, I would rather drink acid," then I then I'll put it off. And then people have to remind me like managers and will like email me, hey, did you do the thing? And I know I know I I know I'm not doing it. And then it comes to a point where it's like we have to do it right now or it won't happen or whatever, then I'll do it.
>> Okay. So, >> if there's like consequences, then I weigh the consequence versus if I want to do it or not.
>> Does it feel like intentional um and functional, I guess, uh prioritization, like you're like, I don't feel like doing this unless I really need to, I'm just not going to.
Or does it feel like I really need to do it? I'm trying to get myself to do it and I can't.
>> It feels like the idea of doing it is is is like crazy to me. like the idea of like I don't even know it's and and it's like it's like real small stuff like this is a this is a a sort of example like the the my merch person is like having to put together like a merch store and he sent me an email he's like hey can you look through some uh websites and let me know which ones aesthetically you like.
>> I got that email and I'm like I'm never doing that. I'm never doing. And the thing is it's for me. It's for me and to advance my career. I know I will never because the idea of me clicking that link going through the me thinking about it. I I would I would rather go to a gun range and be in front of people.
>> It's an it's it's overwhelming. It's daunting.
>> It's it's it's borderline it's borderline gross. It's >> well which doesn't excite you like the other stuff on your to-do list. Yeah, because that's where I fall into this.
It's like I have been pushing off that I need to get a colonoscopy. I got a bad colon. Hey, now I've been pushing that off.
>> Push that off. That'd be the top of my list.
>> I know. BUT LIKE FINGER ME.
>> OH. OH, RIGHT. But yeah, let me go drink some >> because it's important, right?
>> No, cuz I want to come.
>> Oh, >> okay. Well, >> all right. I I was waiting. I was wondering when we were going to go there.
>> I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. But the Well, it's just like But yes. So now Yes.
>> cutting me off. That's a five. But now it's the thought of like this isn't fun to me. What's fun to me is making videos, editing videos, and doing standup. And those are my priorities every single day. So it the thought of like I got to schedule a day to drink all this stuff so I sit on a toilet for eight hours and then feel like a nimble man and then get a camera in there. Like the thought of doing that is it's like just tedious. And I'm like it's just not.
>> So this is a very ADHD thing. Not wanting to do stuff is a very human thing. not wanting to do things like a colonoscopy is just objectively like not as fun as being on podcast. But um if for most people if it's important enough they will do it right. If it's important you're like I that's not something that's my health. I can't mess with that. I got to do it. Yeah.
>> Um for people with ADHD they don't really run on importance. ADHD brains don't run on importance. They run on >> stimulation. Is it urgent? Is it new or novel? Is it of personal interest? Then I can do it. And it might be very very important. And this is where we get into trouble in relationships. We might know that what we need to do for our partner is very important to them. And if it's not stimulating, we might have a really hard time actually doing it.
>> Is that is that choice made consciously?
>> No. And honestly, it can feel like you're self-sabotaging.
>> Oh, >> I thought I was for the longest time.
Like, what's wrong with me? I know how important it is to renew my tabs. Like, why can't I just get myself to do it?
And other people, too. Why can't you just Why can't you just do this? And I'm like, I don't know. I guess I suck as a human.
>> I Sorry. I don't know why I'm raising my hand. Like I'm not There's only two people here.
>> I just I went into teacher mode a little too hard.
>> Wild. I That was my impulse. Um I know people that they feel like to me that they push off stuff because they are more comfortable in chaos. I and I can think of two people where they op they they they almost crave it. They're more comfortable in it and so they it's it is self-sabotaging in a way but like they they like it. They like when like there's 19 things piling up if I don't there's a fire everything's on fire >> because that's when their brains work though. But but I Yeah, >> because then their brains are getting enough stimulation to be able to focus, to to be able to access their executive function, to be able to kick into gear.
And that that's something that works.
It's a tool that works. Waiting for the fire to be under your ass before you get started. It works for a lot of people.
There's a lot of people with ADHD who the night before uh an assignment is due is is scrambling to to get it done at the last minute. And it works until it doesn't.
>> Yeah, that was mostly me in college just writing any essay. I would start writing it around, you know, 10 or something.
I'm like, I'm just not it's not there.
And then I would go, well, how about I just wake up at 6:00 a.m. and finish this paper that's due at noon the next day. And I think it just works because there was a deadline, but it it's not your best work, maybe. But also, I didn't care. I just wanted to get done with it.
>> Yeah, that can be part of it. And so like it but it has worked for you. So when did it not work?
>> When I got the grade back.
>> You know, they're like you misspelled your own name. Because a lot of times I mean >> wireless is hard.
>> Yeah. If it's for stuff I care about like anything video related. It's like I will stay up that late because I want to or bec or if it's like I have to meet a dead length something has to go up a certain day. Like I I don't mind that.
But when it was like writing essays about stuff I didn't care about. That's when I was like I just don't have any motivation to do it right now. But if I wake up at 6 a.m. I know nobody's going to be on their phones at 6 a.m. I'm not going to have anyone. I'm going to look at I've already looked at all the things for social media. There's one reason why I'm up. It's like to finish this paper.
that's due at noon. So, it's just that deadline factor and just knowing that like I can't take a break and go on my phone versus if I do it the night before, I can type for 30 minutes and go on my phone and see what these guys are up to. But, >> Right. So, you get to know how your brain works and what's going to work for you, right? Um it's it's a valid tool to have in your toolbox. The the key is you don't want it to be the only tool in your toolbox. You want to be able to start earlier if you need to or if it's a situation where you do care about that grade.
>> Yeah. So, what is that about? Like, let's say I Here's a good example. I set to film something on Monday, but it we we set last Monday, yesterday. Hello.
And but we booked like three weeks out.
And then I'd try to kind of write it and I'd be like, nah, it's okay. There's some funny here, but I poke peck at it.
But it wasn't until Sunday night at like midnight that I was like, let's fully find the funny in it.
>> So, there's a pattern here. Do you do your best work at midnight?
>> Late at night. Yeah.
>> Late at night. Yeah.
>> Okay.
>> Daytime is like in this the fact people get work done in the day is insane.
Especially with like phones being everybody being so accessible. The second I start anything, it's like somebody's in the room, there's a the they're mowing the lawn out front or I just got a call or a text. But at night I work best because nobody's doing anything. Nobody's messaging you.
Nobody's uh emailing you. You're not getting phone calls. That that that sweet spot is like 12 to two. I can get a day's amount of work done in that window.
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God damn.
>> Yeah. And that can be a very ADHD thing, too. Like, I I'm going to be able to focus better if there aren't a million distractions because I can't regulate my focus. So, this is one way you are kind of regulating your focus is by saying, I'm going to intentionally create an environment for myself where I'm not going to be pulled away so that I can focus and get stuff done.
>> And for a lot of people with ADHD, that is late at night. Um, we also tend to have a more delayed um circadian rhythm.
So, a lot of times people with ADHD will end up going to bed later and waking up later.
>> Yeah.
>> Just as their natural circadian rhythm.
>> Is there something connected to being a creative slash like in the arts and an overabundance of people with AD ADHD in that field? I know so many people in our field that have ADHD. Is there something like connected to that? Yeah, I mean it is it is a field that draws people because if you think about it, anything creative is going to be new and novel and stimulating and interesting, right?
It's it's fun a lot of the time. Not everything about it is fun. Like I I was an actor for a while. Hated memorizing lines. Could not >> could not memorize lines to save my life because it was the most boring thing ever. The way that I was trying to do it because that's the way you were supposed to do it was so boring in my brain. I couldn't get myself to do it. But I loved getting to sit across from another actor and not know what they were gonna do and not know what was gonna happen.
And and also you can't really procrastinate on that kind of work. You I mean you you can procrastinate on some things with podcast but you can't like >> be like hey I'll talk to our guest you know later when they're not sitting here. You know what I mean? Like anything that can be done in the moment where you can't really pu put that work off is also going to be a better fit.
And then there's also one of those strengths that is researched with ADHD.
I'm just info dumping at you.
>> No, please give us some.
>> One of the strengths that does exist with ADHD that is research is divergent thinking. Um, so our ability to come up with lots of creative ideas. Creativity does seem to be higher in people with ADHD. That doesn't mean everybody with ADHD is going to be more creative, but as a general rule, divergent thinking is is stronger. The ability to think outside the box is a little bit stronger with people with ADHD. And so, >> why is my divergent thinking so muted when I take Adderol? Like it is it shuts it off.
>> So it can >> I can't think of any I can't have no touch point of like what's funny. I have no touch point like you know that moment where you just sort of like put your brain on relax mode and you sort of like gather ideas. That's gone. Like I I can't I can paint a house like a [ __ ] but I can't write. I can't do and honestly thank God because I do the feeling of it is awesome for me. Not saying people should take it, but I'm saying for me it's awesome, but I the creative that I need on a moment to moment basis is gone.
>> Okay. So, a couple things. So, one, there is some research that divergent thinking isn't negatively impacted by meds. We need more research, but it's not that the divergent thinking is impacted. It's you get used to your brain working a certain way and coming up lots of ideas and then bouncing from idea to idea to idea if you have ADHD.
And while we're great at divergent thing thinking, we're not any better at convergent thinking, which is the ability to narrow our ideas down. Meds do help with that. Meds help with focus.
They help with convergent thinking. And so, you might still be coming up with really creative ideas, but you're able to follow through on them in a way you wouldn't normally. So, you're not bouncing from idea to idea. You're not bouncing from project to project in quite the same way. And that can feel really uncomfortable, especially if you already created this identity for yourself as a creative person before meds. Then you take meds and you're like, "My brain doesn't work the same way. I'm not as creative."
>> Uh, so >> so that can happen. But the other thing that can happen is you don't need the meds. You know, if you don't have ADHD and you don't need the meds, probably they're not >> doing you any favors, right? But the then the other part of it is even if you have ADHD, even if you need the meds, you might not be on the right meds, you might not be on the right dose. There are different ADHD medications that have different u mechanisms.
>> Yeah. Um, and different ones will work differently for different people, but sometimes the dose is wrong, sometimes the med is wrong. But, um, if you know, if anybody's listening to this podcast and identifies with that, like, hey, I I like that my meds helped me get stuff done, but I don't feel as creative, get really specific with your doctor about why, what's happening, where is it dampening your creativity? Because it could mean um, you know, as you get more specific with it, you might realize like, oh, no, it feels that way, but I actually am still coming up with lots of ideas. I'm just also able to execute them.
>> Is it also something where you just feel like normally when you get ideas you're not thinking like I'm trying to think if they're when you take something and you feel like you're thinking about that. So when you take I don't know if I'm articulating this right. Maybe I need some aderall for this thought. But feeling like if I take this I'm not going to feel any ideas then going into it and then you're sitting there like I'm not getting ideas. Like you're you're thinking too much about it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So that's that's part of it too. there there's this it's just out there I in the ether that that meds hurt creativity and so somebody might expect it to hurt their creativity and it becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy >> well you're thinking harder about it versus letting it just happen.
>> Yeah. You know >> it's like when you're when you're meditating and you're like trying to meditate and you're like I'm trying to meditate. You're like oh no I'm thinking about trying to meditate so I'm not meditating and it turns into this whole like thing.
>> Yeah.
>> Of course. So when you take aderall what is the A to B happening in your brain?
like it goes into your system and then it >> okay this is I am I dropped out of community college I'm I I can talk about meds but like once we get into the like biological >> she's ADHD did I mention I have ADHD I don't want to get into the the mechanisms but basically it increases the availability of dopamine and helps it hit the receptors I don't know I'm not I'm gonna butcher this but >> I'm also curious how do you drop out of community college you just stop going >> basically no what happened was what had happened was I got to college and it was like oh I can take whatever classes I want and so I took like ballet and fencing and opera and Italian so I could understand what I was singing in opera.
I just took whatever was interesting to me which wasn't what was important to actually get my degree and I was I don't know a couple of years in and I I know I had a friend who was like hey I'm going to take statistics and I was like that sounds like a course I actually need to graduate. So, I did, but I forgot to sign up for the class in time.
>> And so, but then the professor was like, "Hey, just sign up for for it next semester. Whatever grade you get, I'll give you that grade next semester." And I was like, "Okay, cool." So, I took it with my friend, studied for hours a day, like aced this statistics course. Forgot to sign up for the class again. Finally ran into him like a year later and I was like, I was hiding from him. Like actually hiding from this professor in the bushes. Like, I was so ashamed that I still hadn't signed up for this freaking class. finally worked up the courage to be like, "Hey, so can I still have that A because now I would actually like to graduate at some point." And he goes, "No." Like it was a year.
>> Who are you?
>> Who are you and why are you in the bushes?
>> Yeah. I I went >> She forgot she had her fencing hat on.
>> Hey, >> it's me.
>> So, at that point, I was like, "Okay, I am so close. I'm so far away from graduating that statistically speaking, I knew that >> I kn I knew I would not graduate anytime soon." So, I was like, "You know what? I can come back to this." you. Okay, I'll go do something else.
>> Well, I mean, listen, New York Times bestseller. I I think the community college, >> it worked out. It worked out great.
>> Um, what are the >> eventually there was a lot of failure at life first?
>> That's that's everyone.
>> Yep.
>> Everyone.
>> Um, so what are the biggest If there if somebody in a room had ADHD and somebody in the room had ADD, what are the biggest differences you would see between those two people?
>> So, again, it's now all called ADHD. So, >> oh, they merged. So, I want to see your screener. Um, we already talked about this. So, uh, yeah.
So, ADHD is an umbrella term for all of it. Now, so there's different presentations. So, you might have a primarily in a ton of presentation. Um, which looks like daydreaming, getting distracted a lot. Um, then there's a primarily hyperactive impulsive presentation, which is the stereotypical presentation of ADHD where like the, you know, little boy running around the classroom getting into trouble. Um, but then there's combined type, which is a combination of both. You would qualify for both diagnoses. And I have ADHD combined type.
>> Whoa. That's like the the ADHD like plus >> king of ADHD.
>> No, it's a it just it I I'm moderate like moderate ADHD. You can have mild, moderate, severe, and then your presentation. So like I am fidgety and >> daydream daydreamy.
>> So the breeze means my next question.
Oh, and and and how I filled this out was on my Instagram story and just circled with the draw mechanism, then downloaded >> ADHD plus >> and at the last minute, like at the very last minute.
>> Last minute. Oh, I didn't even realize what I was doing is it ties into all this.
>> Yep. Yep. Yep. Yep.
>> Let's snort. One time in college, I snorted extended aderall. The beads fell out.
>> Okay. I didn't hear that. Um >> I'm going to get kicked.
>> No, she didn't hear. She didn't hear.
You have to say it again.
>> No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no.
>> I run a very serious YouTube channel.
No. No, no, no. We're We're all goofing and gagging out here.
>> Okay. How often do you put things off until the last minute? Very often.
>> Yeah.
>> Literally fill this out as you are parking.
>> Shocked.
How often? Okay. How often do you put things off until the last minute? All right. So, you said often. You're saying very often. What does that look like for you?
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Yeah, I just um I know I have to do it.
It'll be in the back of my head. Um, and I just I prioritize I prioritize I well I always feel like I'm playing catchup. So it's not that I'm I didn't prioritize this. I would prioritize what am I the Looney Tunes.
But I was this morning I was catching up on stuff that I wasn't able to get to yesterday. So now it's like this was the first to-do after I got yesterday's done.
>> You're doing like Ponzi scheme with to-do lists.
Thank you.
>> I don't know what a Ponzi scheme is.
>> Yes, you do.
>> What is that?
>> You do know what a Ponzi scheme is.
That's >> so funny. Somebody who doesn't laugh.
You know what I'm talking about.
>> Is that a pyramid scheme?
>> No.
>> Okay.
>> Ponzi scheme. Well, Go ahead.
>> What What's Ponzi?
>> No, I think you you got to explain it now.
>> Ponzi scheme is like you you owe people money and these people are paying you money. So, you use the money that people are paying you to pay the money that you that you owe. So you never have money in the bank. You're sort of like moving money all around.
>> This is the best best description of ADHD I think I've ever heard. It's it's so true. No, you're you're constantly behind. It feels like your entire life is one big crisis.
>> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah. Daily ADHD. The Ponzi scheme of America by Michael Blousestein.
>> Yeah. LA Times bestseller. You're goddamn right. What? Hold on. What was I going to say?
>> ADHD.
>> So, okay. So it's a lot of times it feels like life is in crisis but also there's a lot of days where everything is going great and amazing but my brain focuses on the negative. Are these related?
>> Okay, sort of. So negativity bias is a common just human thing. It's how we survived, right? If you were in a cave and you heard rustling in the bushes and you were like, "Oh, it's probably fine and nothing." You died, right? Like you had to assume it's probably a tiger and I might get eaten. So our brains are are wired as humans to focus more on the negative than on the positive. But when you add in ADHD and the tendency to ruminate um because uh it's a whole thing but the default mode network is more active in ADHD brains. Uh so the task positive network is when you're focused on doing things and then the default mode network is your brain's wandering off and u you know it's where daydreaming shower thoughts like you're you're brain's off exploring things. So the default mode network is on more often. We're often more often like ruminating on things than our neurotypical peers might even when we're trying to do something else.
So we might be we might be trying to listen to somebody during a podcast, but then our brain is also like ruminating on the stupid thing that we said earlier.
>> Okay, so let me reframe part of that.
How come sometimes I'm living so far in in the future when I it's hard for me to be present? It's hard for me to be like, I've worked so hard for this feeling right here, and I get to that feeling, I'm like, yeah, this is cool, but I still got to do da da d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d that's kind of the playing catch-up thing.
>> Can we be playing catchup? Um, yeah. So, like Okay, so in Okay, I I have five things that I want to say at once and they're all trying to come out.
Okay, so ADHD tends to not exist alone.
It tends to come with friends. So, ADHD tends to come with coexisting conditions, especially for adults. About half of people with ADHD who are adults also have an anxiety disorder.
>> A good chunk of them also have depression or autism or another condition, right? Um dyslexia, a learning disability of some sort.
>> Oh, that's what I got.
>> So, you have dyslexia diagnosed?
>> Diagnosed? No.
>> But holy crap.
>> Spell diagnosed.
>> Go to an actual doctor. Like you're like, I think I have autism and ADHD and dyslexia. Go to a doctor.
>> You were talking about this earlier.
You're like, everybody's stolen valid taking these labels and you're like, I'm dyslexic. Here, here's where I'm at.
Here's where I'm at. Autism. If I'm being mean, you're illiterate. Autism.
No. Dyslexia. 100%. I have it on some degree. On some degree. What do you mean? I can't I cannot spell good. I can't spell at all. My d my directions.
I have no idea what's happening. Every time I read a sentence, I have to super focus because my eyes want to go from left to right. I'm sorry. What? Yeah.
From left. What? No, I'm going left.
From right to left. And I start in the middle of the sentence every single [ __ ] time. I have to super focus when I when I'm when I'm reading. And every single time I'm like giving people like numbers and stuff, I always make them backwards.
>> Illiterate.
>> Maybe illiterate.
>> So dyslexia is also common with ADHD.
Very common. So um so so here's here's why it makes sense. If even if somebody's like, "Yeah, I'm pretty sure I have ADHD." why it makes sense to go to a doctor, why it makes sense to have it checked out is because even if you're right about the ADHD, which you might not be because a lot of the things that people with ADHD struggle with could be for another reason. It could be that you're having trouble getting started because of ADHD. It could be that you're having trouble getting started because you're depressed, right? There's different reasons for the same behavior.
>> Can I ask you one question? Is any of this because you're dumb?
>> No, actually. Really? No. So, if you're operating on low IQ and you go, "Man, I can't read. I have ADHD." Maybe you're just dumb. And I'm not saying I'm saying that for funny, but also like, is any of this because of that?
>> So, >> we can cut that out if you want.
>> No, no, no, no. Not you. Not you specific. I'm sorry. I phrase like you.
I don't mean you. I mean just like >> the general you. No, I The general you because I feel like there's so much of like, well, it's this, this, this. And no one ever goes, "Right, but you might just be not smart."
>> Okay. All right. So, no, I'm I'm gonna answer this seriously.
So, go great.
>> People, okay, ADHD does not affect IQ.
There are a lot of people who are incredibly brilliant who also have ADHD.
Yeah.
>> But there are there are also people who are not brilliant that have ADHD. So, I I can't diagnose this. Um I can't diagnose anything. But um but I will say a a lot of times people who are really really brilliant who have ADHD the the ADHD flies under the radar because their giftedness and their ADHD kind of balance each other out and they end up looking like a normal student.
>> So they end up not getting support either for their giftedness or the ADHD and they actually need support for both.
>> Um >> so it and and it flies under the radar because maybe they are smart enough to make up for it, right? Like if you're if you're smart enough, then you can struggle to study and still ace the test >> and >> oh [ __ ] >> Right. So it doesn't get caught as early. Whereas somebody if they don't have if they're not smart enough to compensate for their ADHD struggles, then it might get recognized a little bit earlier. It might get treated a little bit more effectively.
>> Oh [ __ ] >> Whereas somebody who's smart might just feel like, well, I'm I'm smart. I know that I can do this. I know that I'm capable. And maybe sometimes they can, but then they're going to struggle.
>> Wow. So then if they get their ADHD treated, all of a sudden they're like a superhero cuz they're super smart, but their their ADHDness is sort of dimming their intellig not intelligence, but like cuz you because you're saying like they're smart enough to ace the test, but their ADHD is making it harder for them to ace the test. So if they get their ADHD under control, then they're Einstein.
>> What? No, I mean, I don't think Einstein got treatment, so maybe not. maybe, you know, but um but if if you're if you're really smart and you're really capable and ADHD is something that is getting in your way that's holding you back, there are people in my community who cry the first time they take meds because it is so life-changing and they're like, "Is this what it was like for other people the whole time? I have been working so hard and trying so hard and they and they build up these castles of coping mechanisms to even be able to slightly function in this world that is not built for our brains. And then they get the support they need, they get the treatment that they need, and they're like, >> "It didn't have to be that hard."
>> Wow.
>> Or maybe there were opportunities, I I could have reached my potential, but I I I didn't know how. Um, and but what happens most often is eventually as they learn about ADHD, they start to drop the shame because so many people grew up being told, "You have so much potential, you just need to try harder." And they blamed themselves for not reaching it.
And I was one of them.
>> O, how did it feel for you? You said you said for when people um got on meds or or finally um got treatment in in some degree and they like would start crying and and and like feeling this like sense of like extreme like relief. How did it feel for you when you maybe you took meds for the first time or like got the diagnosis?
>> So I I actually had two experiences. So one was when I was 12 I was first diagnosed. My my mom actually took me to a doctor and I was having a really hard time in school at the time and the doctor said, "Well, how did she do in elementary school?" My mom was like, "She got straight A. She's a gifted student." And the doctor said, "Then she can't have ADHD."
>> And my mom was like, "Thank you for your opinion. I'd like to go see a specialist." So, she took me to a specialist. She knew she knew that that wasn't part of the diagnostic criteria.
Like, you can be smart and have ADHD.
And so, she took me to somebody else. I was thoroughly evaluated. Turns out I had ADD. I was put on um rolin at the time. And without doing anything else, my GPA went up an entire point.
>> Oh, man.
>> An entire point. I was putting in the same exact amount of effort only my effort worked.
>> Did you feel like you were like, "Wow, this is like really helping or was it?"
>> Yeah, it was game changing for me. Um, and it boosted my confidence. It helped.
It helped so much, but I still struggled. Um, I still dropped out of community college. I still took classes that seemed interesting to me and and I had a hard time with things that I didn't know were ADHD related. I knew I had a hard time focusing. I knew this this medication helped me focus. I thought everything else was me being a like just really bad at being a human being. Yeah. Um I had I had trouble with planning and prioritizing and sustaining effort toward long-term goals. I wouldn't register for classes in time and then all that was left was the fun stuff that I really wanted to take anyway. Um I would I would procrastinate on stuff like I wouldn't pay my bills. I would I wouldn't even open my mail. Like my place was a mess. My car was always a disaster. I'd ruined my credit. Like there were still all of these issues even with meds because meds a weren't 24/7. they wore off. But B, I would forget to pick them up. I would forget to pay my, you know, I would forget to make a doctor the next doctor's appointment. Like, I didn't always have access to meds. And so, I went, like, at 32 years old, I was broke, divorced, living at home with my mom and went, wasn't I supposed to be successful?
Like, everybody told me I was so gifted and had so much potential. I'm quickly becoming somebody who hasn't reached it.
>> So, I was like, I got to look into this.
All I had to go off of was I'd been diagnosed with this thing called ADD as a kid. And so, I started looking into it. And what happened was I started reading these research papers and I was like these researchers understand my brain in ways I didn't and they knew so much about me and it explained everything. I felt like everything every struggle I'd ever had, every everything that I thought was me self-sabotaging or being lazy or just not caring enough or not trying hard enough, there were there were these reasons for it. And so understanding how my brain worked was was like I found the freaking uh manual to like the printer and instead of like banging on it being like why aren't you working? I was like oh it's out of paper it needs paper.
>> It was gamechanging for me to understand what's going on like what are these invisible obstacles I kept tripping over >> and then what do I do about it?
>> What and what I mean I'm sure a lot but like what what were the things what are the steps that you took outside of the medication that helped you understand how to load the paper? Yeah, it was first of all it was every episode that I started out with was okay, what's a problem that I'm struggling with? What's going on? Let's explain it. What does the research say? What are you know what is actually happening here? And then what's a solution? And so most of my videos, especially from those early years, that's exactly what it was. Like, oh, you know, focus is hard. Why is focus hard? This is what's going on. All right, we have like floating attention.
Our brains are kind of floating all over the place. So, we nail down our attention with like a fidget or something like um we like I learned all these strategies. I learned what am I struggling with and then what's a strategy that can help. So, um let me see what what you're struggling with here. So, yeah. Okay. How often do you have difficulty unwinding and relaxing when you have time to yourself? You said very often, right?
>> Yeah. I find myself when I relax my if I'm not stimulated, then I have to do something stimulating. I'll sit there and I'll put on a show and I I don't really care for the show. Why don't I show my laptop and maybe see if I can edit something real quick? Why don't I write something? Like I relaxing me is just boring, >> right?
>> So, I hate vacations.
>> Yeah, it is boring. And and trying to focus on relaxing is like making yourself focus on paperwork, right? Like it's it's boring. And so you're you're like, "But I'm supposed to be relaxing."
>> And that that's the thing, too. It's so weird because everyone's like, you need the relaxation to have your work shine brighter. And you're sitting there and you're like, "Okay, I need to do this.
I'm supposed to. This is and honestly you're you're like this is supposed to be fun. This is supposed to be good. And you're sitting there and after like six minutes you're like I freaking hate this. Like I hate this.
>> So is workcoholis workcoholism is that a word brain tied to this or is that a separate thing?
>> I mean it it's definitely common for a number of reasons. One because people with ADHD grew up being told that they just needed to try harder.
>> Oh [ __ ] >> What happens when you're not getting the results you need? Like you try harder, you work harder. But also, if you love what you do, you end up doing it a lot, right? And if you go to relax and you're like, "This is horrible." And I like I I'm sitting on a beach and I'm so freaking bored.
>> Yeah. Another my tie. Whoa. Cool.
>> Well, another [ __ ] >> I got to go on vacation with you.
>> But I feel like, >> let me start a new project, right? And so, one of the big ahas that I had around that was eventually I realized for people with ADHD, it's not about forcing yourself to relax. Like, now I'm going to force myself to work and now I'm going to force myself to relax. It's about getting a break from self-reg.
Self-regulation is so hard for a lot of people with ADHD that just that our version of relaxing is letting our brains wander, letting our brains do what they want to do.
>> Yeah.
>> That is that is relaxing for us. That is a break for us, >> you know. And this is so weird. I remember that was like as a kid, you know that moment where you like I guess it is daydream, but like you sort of like just stare like into middle distance and you sort of maybe even like unfocus like your eyes and you just like you just like stare. I remember feeling like that's a thing that I shouldn't do, but it was like the most like relaxed like warm feeling that I could.
>> You're like happy place. I'm like happy Gilmore, >> dude. Yes. Yes. Like and and that's why like not all the time because, you know, our schedules are so [ __ ] but like there sometimes like if I have time like your boy will shower for like cuz in the shower I will just do that and just like >> simulation. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Is there? just like kind of stare into middle distance and I'm don't even know if I'm really thinking about anything. It's just like it's my or I guess if we all do it >> thoughts I think.
>> Yeah. It's like it's like a it's like another ver it's like my version or our version sorry of like meditating. You're just like yeah I just feel like my brain is always doing this and so like it's a nice like time where I can just stare and I remember like as a kid kid doing that and being like ah I'm probably like wasting time. someone's going to look at me like I'm a weirdo, blah blah blah.
But I remember being like, "This is the best. I could do this for hours if someone would let me."
>> Yeah. And I think that's such a a big key of managing ADHD or ADHD like, you know, struggles is not is is letting go of what should work and paying attention to what does >> what does work, right? Um if what does work for you is working at midnight, cool. If it's starting to interfere with your life, if you're if it's costing you time with, you know, with a partner, if it's hurting your relationships, if it if it's costing you something, then you find something else. Then you can go, okay, what about midnight to 4 in the morning is working so well for me. And if it's everybody leaves me alone, then app blockers, you know, like do not disturb on your phone. Recreating those those situations, recreating those conditions in at a time that is going to be a better fit, right? Like there's there's ways of tweaking it for you. But I'm a huge believer of working with your brain, not against it. there was so long and it's it's just so common for so many people with ADHD to try and force them themselves to work in the way that they're supposed to work and then it doesn't work and then they feel ashamed about it and then that makes it even harder and then they're just in this like vicious cycle of it's not working for me so I'm going to try harder and then it's not going to work and then I'm going to try harder and then I'm going to feel terrible about myself which is going to make me avoid stuff which is going to make me feel even more shame which is going to make me avoid stuff and it just ends up being this really vicious cycle right whereas if you just go what does my brain need >> if I'm struggling with something like why am I struggling? What does my brain need? And then just accept it.
>> Yeah. I mean, I honestly don't even mind working super last minute. I do like the pressure behind it and it kind of like the the fun feeling. Uh I like I grew up watching cooking shows and I think that the chef's the same when they're like five minutes. that's when they're really getting into it versus like, you know, just kind of spreading of the chicken and slowly preheating doing this. But like when the timer is on, I it's like a mini challenge and and I just feel like sometimes it is harder for me to do that when there isn't deadlines because when you become your own boss in this industry, you're it like you're the one setting those versus somebody setting it for you. So, it's a little harder sometimes, >> right? These things. Oh, yeah. It totally makes sense because it works until it doesn't, right? God damn.
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Goddamn. All right.
>> If if you know that you can work on a on under if you know that you can work under a hard deadline and then you don't have a hard deadline because you're the boss, you're the one setting the deadline, now that tool stops stops working or it starts costing you something, right? If if people are frustrated with you because you're having to constantly bail at the last minute because you remembered that something else was due, then that can be an issue. But also stress, like if you're constantly in a state of panic, then that's not great for your body long term. Um, Dr. Dr. Patrick Lount that I work with on the channel >> says your your body is designed to run from the bear occasionally, like the occasional bear.
>> Oh, okay.
>> It's not designed to run from a bear every day. So, if that's the only tool in your toolbox and you rely on panic to function, >> don't get rid of that tool, but add more tools. M >> have other ways to get yourself to do something to get started.
>> I think it's an odd life that that we lead to. We talk about it a bunch like with shows. It's like that feeling of running from a tiger exists for us like a hundfold more than other people and not being like, oh, we're the best. Just in a negative way. And so it's like if we're if we're leaving our leading our lives outside of shows in a way where like our knots button is like the panic.
So then we're like running from the tiger in like life and then going straight to a show where that elicits like a running from the tiger moment.
The entire your entire life is like running from a tiger. And that's why like after after we like do a bunch of shows like I I I just I call like you know my my battery. It's it's like at a negative a thou like I can't like those moments like staring into middle distance is like I I do that more so because it's like this like moment of like recharging but but you're right it's like that is it's g it's it's taking a toll on your body like long term in in ways that I don't even know yet like so I'm trying to like get a hold of that process and maybe even do like a little less shows or like or just really try to like understand what is relaxing because maybe sitting on the couch and watching Netflix is not relaxing for me. And sort of to your other idea with your other point was like whatever works for your brain. It's like okay so what what is that relaxation looks like and I like there's certain types of focus that really work for me. So like in relaxation I find that like hitting golf balls right for me really helps. It's relax. I just listen to like music whatever and I'm just in my zone. So that to me is like a recharge mechanism versus watching Netflix. So, it's like, yeah, to your earlier point, it's like Yeah. Yeah.
It's like f Well, finding like whatever works in a recharge mode for for you specifically.
>> Yeah. And and it can take some time to find that. Um I'm actually working on this too because I I used to overdo it all of the time and be in this constant panic mode that I I would basically run myself into the ground every day and I would like pass out from exhaustion at the end of the day. And so, one of the things I'm working on is getting to a healthier place with that is um paying attention to like am I in the green right now? Am I in the yellow?
right out of energy and pass out from exhaustion. Um, and like actually have to stop. Now I'm trying to stop a little bit sooner to give myself a buffer. So I have um I usually have uh wrist ties on my wrist now of like green, orange, or green, yellow, orange, and red. And I have a rule that when I switch to orange, I actually have to go do something to recharge.
>> Wow.
>> Because otherwise I will run myself into the ground. Just how my brain works.
>> How do you know when to switch?
>> I've been paying attention to it and like I most of the time right now I'm I'm a mom of a young child. I run my own business. I've got my YouTube channel.
I'm writing my second book. I've got a lot going on. So most of the time I'll wake up and I'll be in the yellow.
>> Um but then like I'll I'll notice I'll be like, "Okay, I'm in the yellow."
Yellow means like I'm tired, but like I could do this all day. Like I'm cool.
Um, when I get to orange, it's like, oh, just something clicks where I'm like, if I could stop right now, I probably should. Usually, I will push past that and be like, but I don't need to stop yet. Like, I can keep going. Orange to me is like, I should stop, but I can keep going. And it feels weird and wrong to me to stop when I could keep going.
But what I've noticed is if I keep going through the orange then and try to stop at red, then if anybody asks me for anything after that, if there's anything else that goes wrong, I'm like now I'm past my limit. Now I'm snapping at people and now I'm like now I'm [ __ ] right? Like I now I'm not okay. And so I'm like trying to stop at the first sign that like I'm getting to, you know, like I'm trying to stop at the bright orange instead of waiting till like the orange red. And that way I can function the way that I function as somebody with ADHD and I can overload my plate and I can have a lot going on and I can get things done at the last minute. It's not my only tool in my toolbox, but I do use it and I can do all those things without burning out, without it costing me what it used to cost me. Have you ever looked into like are there any like biioarker like Whoopstrap type things that can use like heart rate and sleep and whatever to come up with some formula where you can it can know like if you if you specifically are at red or green or yellow or whatever.
>> I forgot about this. I have a friend who has some sort of Garmin watch or something that will actually tell her when she's overextended >> and needs to recharge.
>> That's [ __ ] awesome.
>> So, I have a question. I used I like working myself into the ground because then I can go to sleep. Sometimes I feel like if I haven't done enough in a day, um I just lay there and it's like whenever I have a really early flight in the morning, I try to go to sleep early, but when I have when I go to sleep early, I'm laying there like I'm a loser. I could be doing more.
>> Yep.
>> Is this kind of in that same realm?
>> Dude, that that feeling of like I could be doing more. I should be doing more.
It's just so pervasive in our community.
Terrible. Um >> yeah, it's it's hard. Um it's hard. And part part of what goes into that is time blindness. We have a million things on our plate and we're like, we can get all this done and we can't because we've actually planned 23 hours worth of work that we have to get done in 12 hours and like that's not actually doable. But then we blame ourselves as if it's like our fault that we couldn't get it all done.
laying at night like I'm a piece of right >> then I would be like mad like I dated somebody >> a while ago and they would love to just fall asleep to movies and I'd be laying there be like it's one thing if I like the show and it's engaging that's why I like reality TV cuz it's so dumb and so stupid you're oddly engaged like there's no way she said that with this guy. But if I'm just watching a movie or something and I'm just like not engaged, I would like lay there and I would be mad that I'm not doing work. But I would be mad that I'm like, "Okay, well, I have to be a good boyfriend, so let me watch this show." And then be sitting there like, "This show is so stupid.
It's it's bad acting. I like I could be writing a script that could be better than this." But it like I would I wouldn't resent the girlfriend at the time at all, but I would resent the fact that I had to do that stuff.
>> Yeah. I would do that with friends a lot of time. I be like out with friends going uh like so stupid and like talking about right now and I could be like home doing work.
>> Yeah. Yep.
>> I mean here's the thing like if something gives your brain dopamine.
Dopamine is not just like about enjoyment. It's about it's a it's a learning hormone. So your brain's like oo that felt good. Do it again.
>> So if you get a lot of pleasure and satisfaction and dopamine from your work then your brain wants to do that. It wants to do more of that.
>> Wow. Damn. So are we diagnosed? Do we get it? Do we have >> Kaiser? So all right. So, I I looked at your you're you're actually you >> you didn't score high enough >> to me that right like a score of 14 or higher suggests the possible existence of ADHD. You scored what? 11 36.
>> Wait, hang on. I can count. 6 7 8 9 >> I can't I have dyslexia.
>> 11 11. So, uh >> you're if you're dyslexic, that's fine because 111 switch it.
>> Boom. Same thing.
>> Same thing.
>> Again, it's a screener. It doesn't mean that you don't have ADHD, but but like that one. And then I I looked at the other one, the ASRS v1.1. You've got a couple that are sometimes, but mostly you marked never or rarely to these things. So >> Oh, it was lying.
>> Yeah, it wasn't reading.
>> That that I know that was that was the other thing I was going to ask is >> that >> zinger from downtown, >> but we're not always the most reliable self-reporters either. Uh sometimes we might say or, you know, or maybe like it's compared to other people, right?
Like you're you're like sometimes compared to this person who does it all of the time. Right. So like >> self-report is awful. Like I'm I say I'm not gay, but who knows, you know?
>> So this this doesn't tell you if you have ADHD. It doesn't tell you you don't have ADHD. What it says like there's nothing on here that that would make me go you should go to a doctor immediately like how are you?
>> What about after you talk to me for 40 minutes right now?
>> No, I mean if you're curious, go find out. Like go >> I actually am. I I I really think I I just just out of pure curiosity, I'd like a doctor to be like, "Man, no, you're just dumb."
>> And silence again.
>> I don't think you're dumb. Like, you're >> No, I'm I'm joking. I don't think I'm dumb either. I think I'm the smartest person in this room by far.
>> There we go. That's I just wanted laughter. That's all I needed. That's all I wanted, guys.
>> All right. So, we've got we've got this one. So, let's move on. Let's look at your test. We got very often. So, that's >> Rick Shore Rickshshire test. 4 8 9 10 11 12 13 14. All right. So, you you do make the cuto off for you probably.
>> Um Okay. Interesting. But um I it does run in my family and you know when it's like a very often on this it's like the very often like I'm pretty honest with these but like when it's like >> it's it's for me it's either like I guess or it's like true true true.
>> Okay. So when you when you make when you mark sometimes it's like I guess. But you have a couple that's often how often you fidget or squirm with your hands or feet when you have to sit down.
>> Yeah. this podcast. I've been doing this on my toe and like I'm I have to sit like a wet's pretzel sometimes just so I feel assimilated.
>> Gay and and yeah, I have another question after peep this.
>> Yeah. How often are you distracted by activity or noise around you very often?
>> Very God, I hate noise.
>> So like I mean you're curious. You scored high enough. Go get checked out.
Why not? Like what's what's the worst thing that's going to happen, right?
Like go get checked out. You you want to know how your brain works. I'm a huge fan of knowing how your brain works. If you're going to work with any piece of equipment, it helps to understand how it works.
>> Right. Right. Right. It's the entire thing that like runs our whole life and we're like, "Yeah, we're fine."
>> Yeah. Exactly. Like this is a piece of equipment you use every day.
>> Yeah. You don't need to go keto. Just fix what's up here.
>> I'm doing keto so I can fix what's up here.
>> Um >> I have a question about the fidgeting era. I feel like fidget spinners came out 2017 and it kind of really took over. What were people doing pre fidget spinners? We're just >> Are you kidding me? You think we didn't have fidgets? We have paper clips. Uh we have >> paper clips and rubber bands and cigarettes and >> cigarettes are fidget spinners.
>> Cigarettes were fidgets. Cigarettes were absolutely fidgets and had nicotine. So it's stimulation.
>> Ah okay. Two questions here. One question here. Does nicotine help or opposite for ADHD?
>> It it was a way of self-medicating. Most adults with ADHD will self-medicate or have self-medicated with something.
Whether that's cigarettes, whether it's um comedy podcast, whether it's, you know, whether it's whatever it is, like you're self-medicating with something because your brain needs the stimulation. So, you're going to get it from somewhere.
>> What about caffeine?
>> Oh, 100%. Yeah. 100%.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. My my partner has is diagnosed with ADHD now and takes meds.
But before that, like he had carefully >> carefully curated like this is how much coffee I need and when I need it and was was quite literally self-medicating with it. Oh wow. He had like dialed it in.
Right.
>> I feel like we have something like that too where it's like pre-show you take this amount or you know it's a shorter set. It's in town it's only a 15-minute show. I take this versus that.
>> You guys offered me a five hour energy when I came in. I'm like all right, you know.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Yeah. We have a a couple >> these are written in from people.
>> Couple of questions from Patreon. Um, Cali wants to know if females and males differ with ADHD.
>> Great question.
>> Yeah. So, it's not like cut and dry where there's a male version of ADHD and a female version of ADHD, but the presentations are often different. Um, females with ADHD tend to have more of the inattentive presentation. It's a little bit more common. Also, if somebody who's female is hyperactive, it often shows up differently. It isn't necessarily running around the room as a kid and like getting into trouble. It might show up in the teenage years as like sexual promiscuity, >> talking too fast with no spaces between your words. Um, it can look a little bit different. And then there's also a lot of pressure on women to be good at things like organizing, like cleaning, like planning, right? Like it's there's a whole discussion about how women are carrying the bulk of the mental load for most relationships. So like you're supposed to be the one that for the entire family, you're the one who knows what time Jimmy has soccer practice and when everybody needs new shoes and all of that. And so because of the societal pressure, um often what we're presenting to the world is very different. Um whereas like it might be more acceptable for a guy to be like, "Yeah, I forgot how to use the fridge again." Like I you know >> it's a ridiculous example but you know what I mean like like guys are allowed to be like >> you hear that in ways that women are just not >> show me how to use the fridge. Babe, hey babe, how do I get cold?
Like [ __ ] open it, dude.
>> I'm sorry. Can you answer the the So how does the male present?
>> So So yeah, like the the guy the guy presentation. So, it's going to be probably a lot more of um externalizing behaviors usually. So, like getting into fights, getting into trouble at school.
Um, right? Like >> two for two.
>> Getting into fights, getting into trouble at school. Um, uh, road rage is going to be more common for guys.
>> Um, like I might get annoyed if someone >> What about a foot fetish?
>> That is, that's all you. That is all you.
>> All right. Well, that's it for us, guys.
No amount of bands can fix that.
You can only up it honestly.
>> Might help you be able to focus on the other parts of HER BODY THOUGH.
>> HEY, YOU EVER SEEN an ankle?
>> Baby steps. We're just going to move move you up.
>> There you go. There you go.
>> I love knees now. I'm on violence.
>> All right. So, um, Alex asks, um, "What has studying ADHD um changed about your understanding of human behavior overall?"
>> Great questions. Oo, that is a really good question. Human behavior overall, I think the biggest is if somebody's struggling, there's a reason they're struggling.
They might not understand what that reason is. And it might not be obvious, but there's a reason. And and not to assume. So, I even with my own ADHD made a ton of assumptions about why I sucked at stuff. Like why like what was wrong?
I was a bad friend or like I was lazy and irresponsible and messy and weird and like I had all these explanations and they were wrong. They were wrong and that was my own behavior. So, how like what are the odds I'm going to be right about somebody else's behavior and what's going on there? So, what it's taught me is to be really curious instead of assuming why something is happening to just get curious about what's going on for somebody else.
>> That's great. That's awesome.
>> All right. I got a secret sock. This one's out of left field here, but it says, uh, "Can jerking off cause ADHD?"
>> It cannot. It cannot cause ADHD. I >> Wouldn't that be hilarious if it could >> jerk yourself with ADD?
>> I mean, 80% of dudes just be like, "You might be iced addicted, but it doesn't cause ADD."
>> Yeah. I'm I'm like I usually don't say anything definitive. I'm I'm I'm trying to think if there's any possible >> I I you know what I >> my researcher can be mad at me if I got this wrong. Like I I I don't think that it could cause ADC. Um >> you can cause carpal tunnel.
>> Yeah, it could it could do that. Also, it could be using your dick as like a fidget spinner.
>> You know what I mean?
>> Okay. So, no, it can't cause ADHD. I'm trying to think it it could exacerbate existing symptoms. That's what he's doing.
>> It's massive.
>> Um I I guess like if if it starts to be Oh my god, you guys are >> Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
>> Teenagers. Um >> yeah. No, I I want to comment, but I I actually You know what? I will research this. I will re I will email you if I find anything other than No, it does not cause ADHD.
>> I I but I I wonder this is a serious thing. I wonder if pe if men with ADHD tend to masturbate more cuz they're using it as like a self soothing.
>> It can happen. It can happen >> instead of a cigarette.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. I mean, it's it's stimulation.
It's also a way to avoid, right? Like if you're having trouble getting started on something and you're feeling bad and you don't know how to regulate your emotions, like that's a way of regulating your emotions.
>> Damn. So, I definitely know guys who have over relied on masturbation or sex as a way of avoiding things that they would rather not do.
>> 100%.
>> Wow.
>> Damn.
>> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> That's crazy. Cuz sometimes >> self-medicating.
>> Yeah.
>> Very much self form of self-medicating.
>> Yeah, it is. Self soothing. Like, I don't want to deal with this. Let me just forget about my life for 17 minutes or however long it takes you guys.
>> Weirdly specific.
>> Wow. Self-medicating.
>> Um, wow. I mean, this has been such a joy and a treat. I was like so excited to have you on the show. I feel Yes.
>> I feel like all these issues and pressures in my head. I'm like, "Oh, I should talk to a professional."
>> Yeah. I think I think we both feel seen.
I think people are listening and watching. Um there's definitely a percentage of them feeling seen. And um I'm sure you get this a lot, but I hope that you know that you are you are helping people in a very um incredible way. So, we thank you for being on the show. We thank you for all your help and every everyone with ADHD is is thanking you and clapping um at home right now.
And yeah, I think you you do you have a website they they can find some stuff at or >> Yeah, YouTube.com. Wait, that's not my website.
>> I mean, modern. Yeah,.com. YouTube.com8.
You can Google how to find me.
>> There you go.
>> Absolutely.
>> Um that's it, guys. Thank you so so much. Uh we love you. Come see Mr. Wallace, Mr. Boss on a tour. Um there's always one more thing. Psych. I know. I got a big old wing. Goodbye.
>> There it is.
>> Me, too.
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