The Green River Killer case (1982-1998) demonstrates how institutional indifference toward marginalized populations, such as sex workers and runaways, enabled serial killers to operate for extended periods. Gary Leon Ridgeway murdered at least 49 women in and around Seattle and Tacoma, Washington, exploiting the 'No Humans Involved' (NHI) designation that law enforcement applied to cases involving sex workers, homeless individuals, or drug users. This systemic failure allowed Ridgeway to kill for 16 years before DNA technology finally linked him to the victims in 2001. The case highlights the critical importance of treating all victims equally regardless of their social status and the need for law enforcement to maintain urgency in investigating cases involving vulnerable populations.
"No Humans Involved" - Green River K*llerAdded:
In the summer of 1982, the body of a 16-year-old girl named Wendy Lee Coughfield was pulled from the Green River, a muddy, winding stretch of water south of Seattle, Washington. She had been strangled, her hands were bound, and she had been in the water for days.
Over the next several months, four more bodies surfaced on that same stretch of river. Then more from the roadsides of the Pacific Highway South, a strip known locally as the strip or the SeaTac strip, where young women, many of them sex workers, many of them runaways, had been disappearing at a horrifying rate.
Detective Dave Ryker would say, "We knew something was very wrong. Women were vanishing and nobody was looking for them because of who they were. The Green River killer knew that. He counted on it." For almost 20 years, the killer remained a ghost. He was an ordinary, invisible man. Drove his truck to work every day. He went to church. He remarried. He took care of his yard. He was one of your neighbors. His name was Gary Leon Ridgeway. And by the time he was finally stopped, at least 49 women were confirmed dead, with investigators believing the true total could be as high as 71 or more, making him the most prolific convicted serial killer in American history at that time. And this is his stories and also it's theirs. I'm Monty Mater.
>> I'm Andy Jones.
>> And this is Highway to Hell.
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>> And we're back.
>> I know. We've just seen a lot of you this week between recording the new singles for the band.
>> I'm sorry. I'll go back to my cage.
>> So annoyed. No, I'm just kidding. It was really fun to be back in studio last week and getting those songs done. I can't wait to hear the mixes.
>> I had a blast. Especially when Seeker and Hans yelled at me because of being out of tune and [ __ ] up too much.
>> Whatever.
>> Andy play right.
>> I don't believe it.
>> But yeah, we recorded our first two singles that'll be coming out later this summer. Really, really awesome. I'm stoked.
>> It was refreshing. Yeah, it was really nice. Good to just hang with everybody again.
>> Yeah, I was like, well, hi guys. Hi, guys.
>> I had seen Nathan in like 10,000 years it felt. And you know, Drew, I rarely see him. So, >> I'm excited to get some shows back so we can like see each other and get everything working again. I'm excited.
I'm actually like rewrote my whole workout program to get back in stage shape because I'm like, damn. Like being able to run around and scream at the top of my lungs like I used to.
>> Yeah, that's it sounds exhausting.
>> It is exhausting. As a matter of fact, we're going to jump kind of right in today. Okay, we don't have any announcements. Uh, we're just a little crunched on time.
>> Yep.
>> So, we're going to jump in. We're going to do comments and then get straight into this hair this hair episode.
>> Sounds good.
>> All right. Here's the comments. Woohoo.
I'm the first comment. Yes, you are.
>> Yes, you are.
>> I've been asked if we have polar bears in North Dakota. Also, electricity, cars, and the internet. Remember that you're talking about? Yeah.
>> We don't have polar bears, but we do have the rest. Although I may have convinced my cousin's husband that we live in the good oldfashioned wild west prior to his first visit from Los Angeles.
That's great. Also too, Goulash in North Dakota is ground beef, macaroni noodles, and corn in a tomato base. I'm with Monty. It's absolutely disgusting.
>> Yes, that's what it was.
>> Doesn't sound like it's gross.
>> It smells so weird, too. There's something I don't know. And also, my stepmom is evil. She just could have been seasoning it with hate.
>> Yeah, that that's possible. Maybe that's the smell in the car. Maybe that's just some random I have this weird smell in my car. It smells like bad fruit, but there's no food in the car. There's no empty cups. There's I can't find it.
It's driving me crazy.
>> Very strange. Um, wow. I didn't know go Ask Alice was faked. Now you do. Welcome to episode on that. That [ __ ] is wild.
>> And also, uh, I know a million little pieces by James Frey was largely fabricated. I don't know that one. Um, >> okay. You guys should cover the serial killer called the Missouri Mauler, David Meerhoffer, or just any case in Montana.
This is a very haunted state and I think it would make for some cool haunted travel itinerary.
>> Missouri or Montana?
>> Montana.
>> Okay.
>> I I I think Myerhoffer doesn't have anything to do with Montana. I think it was just it was two separate ideas.
>> Montana for hauntings.
>> Yeah, I might have No, I don't think I read that wrong. But um unfortunately, the changeling myth is rooted in abbleism. In the past, autistic children were accused of being changelings when they were presented symptoms uh when they presented symptoms of autism and they were murdered or abandoned to die.
Over the centuries, this kind of idea is used to push the lie that we are not human beings. That's interesting.
>> Well, and it was also um changelings especially like the the the oldest lore to like any kind of deformity >> or skin condition that a baby was born with. Yeah. Clearly, you know, red hair, demonic course. I mean, that's the only logical that's the only logical thing to go >> Satan.
>> He gets so tired, I'm sure, of being blamed. But anyway, >> I know. Satan's like, "Dude, what the [ __ ] did I do, man?" He's like, "I'm just chilling." Well, not chilling, but >> he looks like that one guy. Leave Ready alone. Leave me alone, >> you bastards. Anyway, uh, this is from the last episode we just did. U, this is fascinating. I had heard of him, but not so much detail. Can you look into the tree of life massacre, the religious connections and the way the Muslim community stepped up to help the Jewish community? It's amazing. We'll definitely look into that. I'm not familiar with that. So >> interesting here. And let's see if we can find um >> a couple more to the point of to the point of humanity card revoked. I've always liked the phrase we're trying to have a [ __ ] society here. Agreed.
>> That's fair. That's fair.
>> Agreed. Listener, thank you so much. And then one more here. Let me just go through here. There was one and I lost it. Let's see.
>> Um, at least I thought there was. My bad.
>> Actually, that's it. I I guess I just made up that last one. Thought there was one more. God. Okay. Thank you all.
>> And thank you all so much for the comments cuz those do those help the show a lot. The interaction helps us.
Thank you for the new subscribers to the Patreon. Um, really really appreciate it. Makes it fun. And we're going to now that I've I'm back in the house, the painters are almost done. We can actually start unpacking next week.
>> Awesome. And once we get settled in, we're going to start doing like some bonus lives and stuff on the Patreon itself.
>> We'll start thinking of some other things we can throw on there, too.
>> I just had to have a place to live first. Imagine that.
>> You know, from what I've heard, that's very helpful.
>> Weird how that works. We've been living in a hotel, which was it was fine, but it was I mean, it was me and three cats in a hotel room. So, you can imagine >> you can imagine.
>> Poltergeist Pete was Pete. He was very sad because he was used to he had just gotten used to having so much space to run around in.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> So, then to be restricted again, but he he was fine. They adjusted pretty fast.
>> He He'll be good.
>> That'll be good. And the the apartment.
The house is so pretty. The new colors are in.
>> Dude, I can't wait to see it.
>> It's so Anyways, let's jump in. Let's talk about this [ __ ] Gary Leon Rididgeway was born on February 18th, 1949 in Salt Lake City, Utah. He was the second of three sons born to Thomas Newton Rididgeway and Mary Rita Rididgeway. Not long after Gary's birth, the family relocated to the Seattle area, eventually settling in the workingclass neighborhood of Mcmickin Heights. And I had to double check that cuz I was like McMicken.
>> Yeah, >> cool. Near the city of De Moine, Washington, just minutes from the strip of highway that would one day become his hunting ground. The Ridgeway home was a study in contradiction, as many of them are. By outward appearances, they were an unremarkable normal typical American family. Thomas worked as a metro bus driver. The kids went to school. They all went to church. But inside the walls of the home, something was deeply wrong.
Gary's mother, Mary, was described by nearly everyone who knew her and later by Gary himself as a doineering, controlling, and volatile woman. She was loud. She was cruel. She frequently humiliated her sons. She had explosive outbursts of anger that terrified the children. Gary would later tell investigators that as a young child, he was deeply, pathologically attached to her and simultaneously terrified of her, a psychological knot that criminologists believe formed the core of his later violence against women. Ridgeway actually told investigators um that he had these violent sexual fantasies about his mother, that he both wanted to kill her and was sexually drawn to her. He described watching her wash her legs and feeling what he called mixed up feelings. This confusing toxic attachment to the controlling maternal figure is a recurring pattern in the background of a lot of serial offenders.
Like the the violent, very attached, weird mommy issues.
>> Ed Gene. Ed Gene is is Edge Gene's the big one that that's the one >> that's rough. Oh, that's rough.
>> His father Thomas was largely absent in the emotional sense. And that seems to kind of happen when it's the mother who is this doineering controlling kind of force. The father's always kind of a pushover.
>> Yep. Just like the Gans.
>> Yep. Just like the Gans. And so dad doesn't stick up for the kids and so the house kind of goes whatever direction she wants it to.
>> Horrible.
>> I know. I know. Uh, as a young as a youth, if you will, Gary Rididgeway was a chronic bed wetter well into adolescence, a condition that persisted until he was at least 12 or 13 years of age. That's crazy.
>> Yeah, I was reading that to him.
>> Talk about embarrassing.
>> That's tough.
>> That's tough. As a kid, his mother's response, of course, was not compassion or kindness. She reportedly washed his genitals herself after episodes of Wedding, treating him with contempt and humiliation. That's disgusting.
>> This is just like Ed Gain.
>> It is. It's very similar. There's a lot of parallels. If you're not familiar with Ed Gene, we'll get into him later, but uh he ended up killing his mom. And >> didn't we do an episode on him?
>> Did we do Ed Gene?
>> Yeah, >> we did. Um >> pretty sure we did Ed Gene.
>> We We did the other guy.
>> Um >> I'm I'm pretty sure we did Ed.
>> Did we? We could have. You know what?
It's been I 3:30.
>> You know what?
>> It's now 620.
>> Tell us what we've done.
>> You tell us if if we've done Ed Gene, go listen to the episode. If not, we'll do that later.
>> I'll be sure. He uh he um defiled his mother's headless body after he killed her. Horrible. Pretty gross.
>> She reportedly again washed his genitals after the bed wedding. Ridgeway would later tell psychologists that he found these experiences both humiliating and confusingly arousing. That is so gross.
>> A combination that of course would warp his developing sexuality in profound ways. And that is something that's super common with violent like sadistic serial killers, particularly if they target sex workers or young women, is that there's this weird and and that's not to say it's it's hard to know, right? Like >> how much of it are you born with that's wrong? You know, it's the nature versus nurture argument versus something happens to you where your sense and your perspective get totally warped, >> you know, like of especially with sexuality is where it seems to really show up.
>> Yeah, it it really does. It always seems like with these guys too, the wire gets snipped when they're Yeah, that's my doctor term by the way. You look at somebody like Dmer who his mom had an addiction problem even while she was pregnant and and they had a really tumultuous marriage but there doesn't seem to be any like sexual trauma for him.
>> Very true.
>> But he's still like there's still something there that kind of unccorks especially when they essentially just abandon him >> and leave him home alone as a teenager.
>> Um >> that that really kind of comes unwired.
And then you look at people like I believe it's John Wayne Gasey who was viciously and violently abused.
>> Yeah. Yeah. His dad was pretty abusive.
>> His dad was pretty awful. And so you end up with these different ways of like how much of this were you born with >> and how much of this was was kind of curated, unlocked, broken open.
>> Yeah. It's >> because of these environments.
>> It's definitely a hybrid of nature versus nurture. I don't think it's one or the other. You know, people are like, "You got to pick." It's like, "No, no, dude. It's it could be both."
>> Yeah. And of course, persistent bedwedding combined with parental humiliation is frequently cited in early development of sadistic personalities.
It it repeats in childhood histories of killers like Ted Bundy, John Wayne Gasey, and Dennis Rider, the BTK killer.
>> Just very very common.
>> Just going to mention him.
>> Yeah, he's he's a scary dude, too.
>> We'll have to do him.
>> He's great. I mean, well, that phrasing >> mine wasn't that great. We'll have to do him.
>> I WAS LIKE, NO, what I mean is it's a fascinating true crime story. Wow.
>> And what I meant by do him is actually do an episode on >> Okay. So, when we do evening shows from now on, we need to have a cocktail first or a coffee or both. Or we have espresso martinis.
>> Oh my god, dude. I'll be just a mess.
>> It'll be great. It'll be great.
>> What happened to him?
>> It's too much.
>> So, Gary Ridgeway was not smart, not a bright student, struggled academically throughout his school years and was eventually assessed with an IQ of approximately 82 >> in the low average range, borderline intellectually disabled by certain classifications. He was held back a grade. He had difficulty reading. He was not popular, of course, didn't excel at sports, and he existed in the margins of school and social life. He wasn't necessarily like brutally bullied, but he was invisible, which is so hard. So, you have like this this pre-teen, adolescent kid who's >> who's really struggling intellectually, struggling at school, not excelling anywhere, he's wetting the bed at home, >> like lives in this high control environment. And like it does make me I mean obviously not later but like man for 13-year-old Gary I'm like damn dude that sucks.
>> Yeah that hurts. Like when I read that I was it makes it made me real sad cuz I'm like you know there's still kids like that.
>> There's still kids. Yeah. And there's so many kids like that who just get overlooked or you know before you know they talk about now people get all up in a tizzy about ADHD or dyslexia like well back in my day we didn't exist.
>> It's because they didn't diagnose it bro. Like it's not that it wasn't there.
It was the kid that you bullied because he couldn't read, right?
>> And it turns out he was just dyslexic.
>> You hear that, Martha?
>> Hear that Martha? Martha. Martha is our is our villain of the day.
>> But what Gary lacked in academic intelligence, he compensated for, investigators would later conclude with a kind of predatory cunning. He had a lot of street smarts. He had social intelligence focused entirely on manipulation, concealment, and identification of vulnerable targets.
And when you are so used to being invisible, >> you learn how to be invisible.
>> Oh yeah. A lot of those a lot of people that have grown up like that, whether it's because of their family or socially, they know how to like disappear into the back of the room and they know how to manipulate the room a little bit to shift the needle.
>> Jeez.
>> And that's really where he um made it he he made a difference and compensated for struggling books smarts wise.
>> Yeah. He kind of weaponized that.
>> Y >> it's like I'll show you how it's done.
I'll show you invisible. In 1965, when Gary Ridgeway was 16 years old, he led a six-year-old boy named David Stevens into the woods near his home and stabbed the child through the ribs. The boy luckily survived when adults confronted Gary. His response was very casual. He laughed and said, "I always wondered what it would feel like to kill someone." And wildly, he faced no serious consequences for this. He was not arrested. He was not evaluated by mental health professionals. He just went home. They were like, "Oh, well, >> I don't understand that, >> dude." Mm- >> Like, what? That's it's it's crazy. And it's like the incident itself is not really the most disturbing part.
The it's it's the lack of consequences that people didn't react.
>> Yep.
>> Like he admitted to the stabbing of another child because he wanted to know what it would feel like to kill someone.
>> The killing part doesn't work. And the adults are like, "Oh, well, okay.
>> That'll toughen him up."
>> Right. Like little wimp.
>> Yeah. Like what what do you mean you're not going to do anything?
>> Horrible. It's it that that is one of the facts of his story that just blows my mind.
>> Yeah, that Yeah, same here.
>> And the Ridgeway would graduate from I think it's Taii or T. I'm not sure.
Thai. Is it just Thai? They just threw in an extra E to be weirdos.
>> You know how the English language >> Hang on. We're going to look this up.
I'm going to do this live. We're not going to edit this out. How do you pronounce this? Okay, so according to the interwebs, it is Tai.
>> I was wrong.
>> I was like I was like I feel like they have that extra e there for a bit, but that's weird. Anyways, but he graduated from Taii High School in 1969, enlisted in the United States Navy, and served aboard a supply ship. During his service, he visited ports in the Philippines, and later told investigators he regularly purchased sex from the prostitutes there. He contracted gorrhea, and his obsession with sex workers, and his fury at contracting the STD from one became a defining psychological thread.
Investigators would later connect. He returned from the Navy in the early 70s and took a job that he would keep for over three decades painting trucks at the Kenworth truck company in Reton, Washington. To his co-workers, he was quiet, unremarkable, diligent, nobody's first guess for literally anything. And then this is this is kind of the next progression in the serial killers that attack sex workers. They start to see them, start to purchase from them, they start to build a hatred. I mean, the STD is a little bit unique. Not that that never happens, but that like specifically for him he felt wronged.
>> Um I was like, "Well, sir, you could have used >> protection or just not done that."
>> I don't believe in it.
>> Right. Rididgeway would get married three times, which is wild.
>> That is crazy >> considering like the packaging here, like personality, all of it. I don't understand how three women married this person.
>> Maybe he could crank up the charm a little bit.
>> Maybe he could. Maybe he was super charming. I don't know. I don't know.
His first wife was Claudia Barrows.
Married him in 1970, divorced him in 1971. Apparently, the charm didn't last long. The union was so brief, it was barely registered, I bet. His second wife, Marcia Winslow, married him in 1973. They had his son together, that his only child, Matthew. The marriage lasted until 1981, a little bit longer there. Marcia later told investigators that Gary had an obsessive interest in sex, that he wanted it constantly, often in public places, and that his sexuality had a compulsive, frantic quality that she found disturbing and scary. She also noted that he would sometimes disappear for hours with no explanation.
>> Weird.
>> And then his third wife, Judith Lynch, whom he married in 1988 at the height of his killing, later said that she had no idea. She described him as decent and boring. A man who liked to garden, a man who read the Bible. She was absolutely convinced of his innocence until DNA evidence made it impossible to believe.
>> Wow.
>> Wow.
>> I like how she used the word boring.
Just how I like them.
>> She was like, "Yeah, just like boring, you know."
>> Good god, dude.
>> Crazy. So through the 19 That's wild.
Especially like such a different contrast between the two marriages.
>> Yeah.
>> But through the 1970s and the early 80s, Ridgeway began cruising the Pacific Highway south of the SeaTac strip with increasing frequency. He was known to local sex workers as a regular. He was known to have proposition girls who were known to police. He was, investigators later confirmed, using his interactions with sex workers in the years before the murders to learn the geography of vulnerability. So, who was out there, who had no one looking out for them, who didn't have family close by, who was a runaway, and who would get into a stranger's truck. So he was what's called in behavioral science in his pre-offense phase building the patterns, the routes, the habits, figuring out where he could go, where was quiet, who was an easy target, and then would later translate that into murder.
>> My god, >> that's just it's so predatory.
>> Yeah.
>> I mean, obviously, but I mean, that's what uh and what is it? They used to have a designation in the ' 70s, I think it was NHI, for when a sex worker was killed, like no human involved.
Yeah, that I don't know that that's the right three letters, but it was something like that where they literally would designate these people as not a person.
>> God, that's horrendous.
>> And so it's it's the perfect target, >> you know, >> that's why he was able to do it for so long, as you'll see.
>> As we'll see.
>> My god, >> it's really sad. It's really sad because so many, especially when you look at the 70s and ' 80s and just everything that was going on culturally at that time and how many of these girls were running away from abusive families or completely impoverished and had no way to feed themselves or their kids if they had them or fleeing an abusive ex and like or or drug addiction. And it's just it's so sad and and then they their lives essentially get stripped of value >> because of the cards they're dealt. You know, none of them when they were little girls were like, you know, what I want to be when I grow up, >> you know, and it was for many of them a series of different circumstances and often times things that weren't their fault. You know, you can't decide if you're going to be born into an abusive family or not.
>> Yeah. You you can't pick your family.
>> Yeah.
>> Unfortunately, >> and uh it just makes me frustrated with a lot of these old cases where like if you were a sex worker or if you were especially a black woman, they didn't give two shits.
>> Yeah. It's pretty horrendous.
>> They weren't going to look for you.
>> It's It's such a stain. There's so many stains, you know, through through the years, but that's just like >> just to not even look at somebody as a human being just because of what, you know, a card they've been dealt.
>> Yep.
>> You know, that's and and look at the car they end up getting, too. It's like it was [ __ ] for so long and oh, they get killed because of it, too.
>> And so many of them such tragic like start to finish lives.
>> Yeah. Same thing when we were talking about the Ripper. Same kind of MMO. You know, they're prostitutes. Oh, who cares?
>> Yeah. Well, and like they were women that had no option.
>> Yeah.
>> Like it was either that or die.
>> Yeah. Who cares? May maybe somebody should have, >> right?
>> Maybe if somebody did that wouldn't have [ __ ] happened, people, >> right?
>> Just an idea.
>> Yeah.
>> What do I know? You know, but anyway.
Okay. So, I I'll take over here.
>> Yeah. You're going to take over >> before I get [ __ ] irritated.
>> It pisses me off.
>> Oh, dude.
>> And it's Well, I think that the extra level of it is that it's not just the killers. It's like the the police department and its culture and it's the laws that all contribute to this. Yeah.
so that people can either avoid responsibility or they don't have to care or they don't have to put in the work to investigate >> and it's like you dick.
>> And that's the thing, you know, I'm going to go off here for two seconds, but that's the thing that gets me with all these cases is how you'd have somebody missing >> and the the cops are just like, "Well, we can't do anything. You have to wait 24 to 48 hours or whatever it is."
>> Oh, yeah. All the kids were always runaways so that the police departments wouldn't have to investigate.
>> Well, we we can't do it. What the [ __ ] are you doing? Boss Hog from the Dukes of Hazard.
>> God, Boss Hog that name in a long time.
>> It's an obscure reference. I'm sorry.
I'm 35 going on 70. I know.
>> 85 at least. Okay.
>> I'm I'm Dracula. I've been around a while. But like that's what gets me.
It's like what are you people do? What do you mean you have to wait? What are you doing?
>> Yeah.
>> In Mayberry. Good.
>> How do you How are you so devoid of humanity that when cases like this come up, you just don't care? Yeah. Do I do they just get desensitized over the year? But it's like I can't even give them that because it's like look at the like a lot of the towns are involved in it's like nothing like that happened.
>> Yeah.
>> Why can't you show [ __ ] urgency?
>> Yeah. And this just happened. I think it was in Georgia. I can't remember the town off the top of my head. This just happened recently where it was a young young black man.
>> I think he was a teenager. Teenager early 20s. Went missing. Cops wouldn't help. Police department. Family found him. Searching on their own. Found his body. Jesus Christ.
>> Pisses me off. Anyways, >> I digress.
>> Anyways, >> back to the Pacific Northwest.
>> My bad. Just that stuff gets me, dude.
All right. The summer of 1982 was a warm one in the Pacific Northwest on the highway strip south of the SeaTac airport. Women were working as they did every night. Gary Ridgeway, 33 years old, had been building towards this for years. That summer, he crossed the line he had always been walking towards. So, our first victim, Wendy Lee Koffield, Cfield, excuse me.
She was discovered July 15th, 1982.
Found in the Green River near Peek Bridge, Tuck Willis uh strangled a runaway and known sex worker. First confirmed victim, hands bound behind her back.
Deborah Lee Bonner, discovered August 12th, 1982. Discovered from the Green or recovered rather from the Green River near Peek Bridge. Strangled. had prior arrest for prostitution. Missing since early July. Marcia Fay Chapman. She was discovered August 15th, 1982. Found submerged in the Green River. Mother of three children.
>> Last seen August 1st, 1982. Two rocks were placed on top of her body to weigh her down. Cynthia Gene Hines discovered August 15th, 1982. Found location as Chapman submerged in the Green River.
Rocks were used on top of her body to weigh her down as well. And there were some places that said that the rocks were inside their body, but we weren't able to verify that. So he used rocks in some way to weigh them down.
>> Right. They were weighed down one way or the other. And then Opel Charmaine Mills discovered August 15th, 1982.
Found on the bank of the Green River near Peek Bridge. Three bodies. Three bodies discovered the same day. A teenager who had drifted into sex trade.
Awful.
>> So young.
>> That's awful. two 16y olds, a 17-year-old, 23y old and 31, >> right? I was actually just going to go back and read the ages. I totally missed that. But yeah, just yeah, just awful, you know, no, no chance, like no opportunity to do anything else with their lives. Just snuffed out by this >> animal. The discovery of five bodies, four of them from the same stretch of river within a single month, sent shock waves through King County law enforcement. On August 15th, 1982, the day three bodies were found simultaneously, King County Sheriff's Office detective Dave Riker waited into the Green River himself to process the scene. He could not have imagined he was beginning a case that would consume 20 years of his life, which is which is wild.
>> 20 years. That's crazy.
>> And here here's a quote from the detective. When I pulled Opal Mills from that river, she was 16 years old. I was 32. I looked at her and I made a promise. I don't always talk about that promise publicly, but I made it. Good for you, buddy. man.
>> Yeah, that's that's a good cop right there. I know. I rip on cops.
>> Well, he really seemed like I mean, he he had several quotes of of just being really bothered that nobody was looking for these girls and nobody was trying to solve it. And so, he took it upon himself to do it. And I I mean, I have to imagine that that pulling a teenage girl >> out of the river, you know, has to like if you're a good person, it has to hit you that way. Like, >> cuz she's she's a [ __ ] kid.
>> Yeah. That's all, >> you know, and you know that she didn't choose this for herself. She's just a kid. She didn't have time to like get it together and get her life right and find other options or get help. She didn't have time. It got taken from her.
>> My god. By mid August 1982, the local press had named it the Green River Killings. King County Sheriff uh sorry, King County Sheriff Vern Thomas announced a formal investigation. The public was warned. Women working the Seaac strip were specifically cautioned to stay off the highway. The warnings for many were not practically useful.
These were women who had nowhere else to go. Ri Bridge Ridge Bridge Ridgeway did not stop. If anything, the media coverage and police presence on the strip seemed to confirm something for him. He was invisible. He could not be caught. The killings intensified through the winter the fall and winter of 1982.
Jazelle Leavourne, age 17. Last seen September 25th, 1982. Body discovered in September 1982 south of Seattle.
Ridgeway later admitted picking her up on the strip, taking her to his house in nearby Auburn, and strangled her there.
one of several he killed in his own home.
Uh Deborah Lorraine Estus, age 15. Linda Jane Rule, age 16, and others disappear.
Many won't be found for years. Some will never be found. Ridgeway later claimed he lost count. That is >> that's crazy. And that's that's between October and December of 1982. So at least two teenagers, several other women disappear that I you know, I'm assuming they just could not pin onto him. My god. By late 1982, a picture of the killer's method was beginning to emerge from the evidence. Victim locations in Ridge Rididgeway's own later confessions. He approached victims on Pacific Highway South Sea Strip and pickup truck or later his Kenworth company vehicle.
>> Bold.
>> Yeah. No.
>> Jeez. In your work truck.
>> Look, you just pin pin that on somebody.
My god. Introduced himself. sometimes showed photo of his son to appear safe and trustworthy.
>> That's gross.
>> Often brought victims to his Auburn or Kenworth area home for transactions.
Strangled victims from behind using his armor ligature, never a weapon. Dumped bodies and forested clusters he could return to and monitor.
>> Returned his body to sites to have sex with victim's remains. Necroilia confirmed.
>> I didn't know that.
>> Yeah, I didn't I don't think I wanted to. I didn't want to know that. Used rocks, sticks, and debris to conceal and weigh down bodies near water. Left fast food trash and condoms at dump sites.
Sometimes deliberately misdirection.
>> That's so disgusting.
>> Yeah, that's pretty that's very vile.
>> Yeah.
>> Not pretty. It's very vile.
>> That's o that's rough.
>> Yeah, that's >> And then we get into the cluster years of 83 and 84. So 1982 was his beginning.
83 and 84 were his, you know, his crescendo and his growth. So, in these two years alone, investigators would later confirm that Rididgeway committed the majority of his murders, killing at a rate that in sheer numerical terms, few serial offenders in recorded American history have matched. I mean, I think the only people I know of because the Golden State Killer was more of a rapist than he was a murderer. The murders came later, but he did have a series of violent crimes. I think the only person that compares to him is Samuel Little.
>> Maybe >> numbers wise, >> numbers wise, >> Gary was methodical. was organized. He had organized his murder sites into what he called clusters, groupings of bodies and wooded areas south of Seattle along river corridors and isolated patches of Interstate 90 east of the city. He would return to these sites, he later told investigators, sometimes multiple times per week. Ridgeway told investigators he chose the cluster dump sites deliberately. He said, quote, "I like to keep them together. I like to know where they were." He also returned to dump sites again for sexual activity with victims remains, a pattern documented in at least 11 of the confirmed cases. One of the largest clusters Ridgeway created was along Starlake Road in King County.
Multiple remains were eventually discovered in this area some years apart. First is Terry Renee Milligan, age 16. She disappeared August 29th, 1982. Found years later in the Star Lake Road cluster. Her body had been to returned to after death. Ridgeway admitted visiting this particular site multiple times. There was also Sandra K.
Gabbert, age 17, missing April 17th, 1983. Last seen near the Seaac Strip.
Remains found near the Star Lake cluster. Ridgeway admitted to murder and described the location in detail. Alma Anne Smith, age 18, missing March 3rd of 1983, disappeared from the strip. Her remains recovered in the cluster. He also later described her killing in graphic detail during his interrogations. And then Keranne Roy or Royce, age 15, missing October 1983. One of his youngest victims. she was a runaway. Rididgeway admitted killing her at his Auburn home before transporting her to the dump site.
And also in 1983, Ridgeway made a calculated move that investigators believe was intended to confuse the investigation. He transported the bodies of some of his victims to Portland, Oregon. Four sets of remains were found in the Portland area, scattered in wooded areas along the Columbia River, south of the city. This was not random.
William Ridgeway told investigators he believed that placing the bodies outside of King County would lead detectives to think there were multiple killers or that the Green River case had no defined geographic territory. It was a deliberate countermeasure against investigators executed by a man again who 82 IQ but very very cunning, very very street smart. It was a good move also much harder for police departments to investigate over county lines at the time. And so the Oregon victims in the Portland area remains was Shirley Marie Cheryl, 18, disappeared in 1982. Her remains were found near Portland. Sandy Denise Gabbert was transported from King County by Ridgeway to confuse the investigation. Denise Darcel Bush, 23, was found October of 1985 in Clatsop County, Oregon. And Sha Summers, age 16, Portland area, remains linked to the King County cases. And then by late 1983 into 1984, the police presence on the Seaac strip had intensified and the Green River task force had been formally established. Plane closed officers were working the strip. News cameras were sometimes present and the coverage unlike in the early months had become national. People knew that this was going on now. Ridgeway adapted, of course. He shifted to hunting in different areas to different times. He used different approaches. He went for longer periods between his kills, but he didn't stop at any point. He would later say in a written confession statement in 2003, "I picked prostitutes as my victims because I hate most prostitutes and I did not want to pay them for sex.
I also picked them because I thought I could kill as many of them as I wanted without getting caught."
>> Dude, that's wild.
>> Well, and that's another thing like the whole I did not want to pay them for sex. There's this, you know, and this isn't isolated to serial killers, but there's this animosity towards sex workers, Only Fans, whatever it is, of like, "How dare you charge me for what I feel entitled to for free?"
>> Yeah. Then don't go that direction.
Maybe >> cuz like there's always this demonization towards them and I'm like, "You're the one paying for it, bro.
>> You don't have to do that.
>> I hate you so much.
>> How How dare you not give me what I feel entitled to for free? How dare you take my money that I'm really giving you?
What?
>> Yeah. And and statements like that obviously really showed investigators that his victims were calculated. He targeted sex workers specifically because he understood that their disappearance would receive less immediate attention from police, which it did. They would get less media coverage, which it did, and less pressure on law enforcement to act quickly. It's much different than if you, you know, kidnap a girl from a stable home in a white neighborhood.
>> Much much different response. So he was exploiting what he recognized as a systemic failure in how vulnerable populations are or are not protected.
>> In early 1984, with the body count climbing past 20 and national media attention intensifying, King County formally established the Green River Task Force. At the time, the largest task force in American law enforcement history dedicated to a single serial serial murder investigation.
At its peak, the task force employed over 50 detectives and support staff.
Man, that's that's that's huge.
>> It operated out of a uh dedicated office in Renton, Washington. The case file grew to mil to a million millions of pages. Can't talk. Sorry, guys. The tip line received thousands of calls.
Investigators tracked over 100,000 leads over the course of the investigation.
So, we had 50 detectives at the peak, over $18,000 tips received, $15 million estimated investigation cost, and basically over this whole course, that's a 20 over 20 years. I mean, that's amazing.
>> A long time. Long time.
>> Here's one of the most disturbing facts of the Green River case. Gary Ridgeway was a suspect early on. In 1983, a sex worker named Rebecca Guard reported to the police that a man who drove a pickup truck matching Ridgeways had tried to choke her and left her for dead in a ditch along the strip. Investigators interviewed Ridgeway as a result. He passed a polygraph. He was released.
>> Crazy.
>> Which not surprised that he passed Yeah.
the polygraph. You know, a lot of times these people they're they're wired so different that questions don't bother them. You know, it's just like, oh no.
Well, I mean, cuz if you're if you're going to go around murdering people on the regular, like you're not your your emotional responses are not going to be a like a normal person.
>> Not at all.
>> No way.
>> Ridgeway was interviewed again in 1984.
He was interviewed again in 1987 when investigators collected a saliva sample from him.
>> That sample would not be matched to the killer for 14 more years because the technology to do so did not yet exist in a form usable for this case, which, you know, DNA was coming up, but it was still in its infancy.
In 1987, Richway's name was on the task force formal suspect list. He was surveiled. His truck was photographed on the highway strip. His garbage was collect collected and examined. Nothing definitive emerged. That's crazy to me.
>> That's crazy that he was that like interviewed that many times, came up that many times. Y >> and that's that is one of the things, you know, I will give credit like with law enforcement and stuff. When you have a situation like this, you can't [ __ ] it up. Like you have to make sure you have your case. You have to make sure you have your ev evidence because if you [ __ ] up the arrest, it gets thrown out the window. If you don't get evidence properly, it gets thrown out. And those protections have to exist to protect people. But when you're dealing with somebody like this, even with the uh the singer David that killed the 14-year-old girl and they found her body in his car, like I was, you know, really upset about like why did they just arrest him right away? But now I'm like they were building an ironclad case so that when they were ready to arrest him, they knew they had him. You got to keep the emotions in check when doing some of this. It's hard.
>> And make sure you can pin the [ __ ] to the wall.
>> Absolutely. Y and not let anything slip through the cracks or do something wrong. It's like the Murdoch case.
>> Yep.
>> Oh god. That's a >> So mad >> topic for another day.
>> So mad.
>> And perhaps the most surreal chapter of the Green River investigation. The task force turned for help to Ted Bundy, himself, America's most famous serial killer at the time, who was then awaiting execution on Florida's death row, >> which is wild.
>> Yeah. He was executed like two towns up from where I uh grew up.
>> Oh, really?
>> Yeah. I believe it was Stark. Yeah.
>> Yeah. I drove by drove by that uh jail many times going to gigs in Gainesville.
I'm like dead eyes. I think of Ted Bundy.
>> Yep.
>> He just always looked totally dead on the inside, >> you know? Incredibly good looking.
>> I It freaks me out. He He He reminds me of a shark.
>> Yeah.
>> Mhm.
>> Like Like just looks And again, I like We were talking about this earlier, like I know that he was like the 70s aesthetic, I guess.
Not my type, not my not my thing, but reminds me of a shark.
>> Yeah, totally. Got dead eyes.
>> Even talking about him gives me the heebiejibbies. Like he just there's something uniquely >> sinister. Oh, >> about him. Like Dmer also super creepy and freaky, but in a totally different way. Totally different way.
>> Bundy reminds me of that line from Jaws talking about his eyes where Robert Shaw Quint's like, you know, sharks got a doll's eye. The black like a doll's eye.
That's kind of what I see with him.
>> It's almost like it's it's this uncanny valley where he's like a humanoid doll and he's not quite real but he's trying to figure out how to be a human.
>> Yeah. Guy guy was a creep, man. You see those old see those old pictures of him when he's like mad and stuff or it's like >> Yeah. I mean, you would see his mood change like when he was angry like terrifying.
>> Very creepy.
>> Evil evil person.
>> Yeah. I never I long story short with that never got why they said he was a good-looking guy. Strange. But >> I can change him.
>> That's all with Richard Ramirez. He's misunderstood, >> right? Like, yeah, I don't I don't think so. Not on this one.
>> Okay. Okay. Fred Wina, whatever your name is. Um, Bundy, who had grown up in Tacoma, Washington, and whose hunting ground had over overlapped geographically with Ridgeways, that's crazy, offered to profile the Green River killer in exchange for uh stay of execution. Task Force Detective Robert Keell, who had previously worked the Bundy case, traveled to Florida's Rafford prison to interview Bundy in 1984. What Bundy provided was by investigator accounts genuinely useful.
The killer was likely local with intimate geographic knowledge of the of the dump sites. He was almost certainly returning to the body sites, a collector personality.
>> Yeah, very very much so. He would appear utterly ordinary, the guy you trust immediately. He would be escalating, not slowing. The f the fantasy is compulsive, not satisfiable. He was likely employed, stable, possibly married, not a drifter or vagrant. His choice of victims was strategic. He understood these women would not be quickly missed. Like we always talk about, >> Bundy was executed on January 24th, 1989. The Green River killer remained free for another 12 years. 12 years.
>> And he hit the nail on the head.
>> Yep.
>> Hit the nail on the head.
And that's one of the things that you know like cases like Bundy I really struggle and I've mentioned this on the podcast several times but struggle with my belief around the death penalty >> because there's this part of one there's this part of me that like the worst thing I can ever imagine is being locked in a cage for the rest of my life and knowing I can't leave.
>> Oh yeah.
>> That to me is way worse than dying like for me personally intellectually. Um, but then you have like here in Tennessee, Tony Kurthers, and I haven't seen the most recent update on the story.
>> He's set to be executed in 2 days.
>> He was convicted of a triple homicide with no physical evidence. The prosecutor lied to the jury.
>> He was forced, Tony Kurthers was forced to represent himself and his codefendant. His codefendant was granted a retrial. There is uh fingerprints and DNA evidence that has not been tested against other suspects that could rule him out. and he's he's set to be killed in two days. What >> the [ __ ] are we doing here?
>> I know. And so that for me, like when you see cases like that, I'm like, I I I do think cuz on the one hand, I see that and I'm like, good, I hope it [ __ ] hurt. You know what I mean?
>> Oh yeah. Yeah, totally.
>> On the other hand, I'm like, you know what? No. Like, make sure these control freak like narcissistic [ __ ] can never get out and they just have to rot. Yeah.
>> Because then I hear a story like Tony Kurthers and I know that the the ACLU is appealing. They're literally just appealing for like a retrial or to like test the evidence, but Tennessee is batting a thousand lately.
>> Dude, Tennessee is out of hand.
>> Out of out of pocket.
>> We're we're we're back in the middle ages over here. People help us.
>> Good God. I mean, that just seems to be a standard thing. The evidence didn't line up. Why Why is it even a case?
Yeah.
>> Like retrial anyway. Yeah, >> I digress.
>> Like at minimum deserves a new trial. I mean, and if he if they do execute him, he will be the first person in a hundred years that had to um represent himself in a capital case.
>> Yeah. What is that even? And you know what?
>> Yeah. It's it is a wild story.
>> It is a wild story.
>> It's it's just sick. By the late 1980s and into the 1990s, with no arrests and the killing apparently apparently slowing, Bridgeway had indeed reduced his pace at this point. Funding pressure mounted. The Green River task force was gradually downsized. Detectives were reassigned. The case continued, but with fewer resources. The families of the missing were left to wait. That's got to be the worst thing in any of this.
>> Not knowing has to be the worst.
>> Yep. Dave Riker, the detective who had who had pulled Opel Mills from the river in 1982, remained on the case. He would later be elected King County Sheriff. He he would later be elected to Congress.
He did not let the case go.
>> Good for him.
>> Yeah, man. What a what a badass.
So, we've already talked about the majority of the confirmed murders attributed to Gary Ridgeway occurred between 1982 and 84. This is his huge spree where he was just killing so much.
And it's because there wasn't as much police pressure. It wasn't as much funding, media pressure. But the killing didn't stop with the task force formation or the increased police presence. Investigators confirmed murders continuing through 8586 1990 and at least one case as late as 1998. I would I would guarantee that there's at least one for every year.
>> Oh, I'm I'm sure >> at least I'm sure >> at least uh from 1985 to 86, among the confirmed victims from this period is Patricia Anne Osborne, age 19, missing in 1986. She disappeared from the Seaac Strip. Remains discovered in a Woodland area of King County. Ridgeway confirmed her murder in his 2003 plea.
Cindy Anne Smith, age 17, missing of March of 1984, part of the extended cluster. Rididgeway guided investigators to her remains decades later, earning points in his cooperation agreement.
Robera Hayes was 32, missing February of 1987. She was among the later of his victims, disappeared from the strip, remains found in the Auburn area, and he admitted to her murder in his confessions. Then there was Marty Reeves, 36, missing 1990. One of the later confirmed murders as well, disappeared from the Seattle area. Her death confirmed Rididgeway was still actively killing into the 90s.
>> Wow.
>> So 1990 he is a full decade in still killing. Uh the public profile of the Green River case had faded. Of course you know it it's you know you begin to not think about it as much. It's not his presence. The task force is getting you know paired down. Ridgeway was married to his third wife Judith at this point working at Kenworth attending church living in the suburb of Auburn. He killed Martyr Reeves in 1990, 8 years after Wendy Caulfield's body was pulled from the river and 11 years before he would be arrested. It is wild how long he got away with this.
>> Unbelievable.
>> The last confirmed murder was in 1998.
Rididgeway's last confirmed murder victim was Patricia Yellow Robe, who disappeared in 1998. She was 38 years old. At this point, Rididgeway was 49.
He'd been killing for 16 years, and the investigation had never publicly named him. He drove his truck to work, came home to his wife and garden, and continued to live his very ordinary double life.
>> I agree with you though. I I think there's a lot more. I don't think there's a gap like that.
>> I don't think so either. There has to be >> how consistent he was and is. I don't I can understand the slowdown, right? Self preservation is a powerful instinct, but it it's not going to override this impulse completely.
>> Yeah.
>> For eight years, too. 1990 to 90. Come on.
>> No, I at least one a year. At least one.
>> I I I totally agree. So now, thankfully, DNA technology enters the chat. In 1988, when the task force investigators had collected the saliva swab from Ridgeway, DNA profiling was in its infancy. It was just a baby.
The technique developed by British geneticist Alec Jeff in 1984 had barely been introduced into American forensic use. The saliva sample collected from Ridgeway in 1987 was stored carefully in the evidence archives of the King County Crime Lab. In the mid 1990s, the King County Medical Examiner's Office and the Washington State Patrol Crime Laboratory began working working with the FBI's new PCRbased DNA analysis techniques, far more sensitive than the original RFLP methods. They began systematically retesting biological evidence from the Green River murders. In 2001, the technology was finally refined enough to process trace DNA evidence from old degraded samples. The lab ran their new profiles against all the suspects from the original task force lisk and one of those profiles matched Rididgeway.
>> I'm shocked.
>> I know, right? Look at that.
>> In the autumn of 2001, scientists at the Washington State Patrol um patrol crime laboratory completed a DNA profile comparison that would close one of the longest running serial murder investigations in American history.
Microscopic biological material, specifically spermatossa, recovered from the bodies of three Green River victims during their original 1982 autopsies was matched via PCRbased short tandem repeat STR analysis to the saliva sample collected from Gary Ridgeway in 1987.
The three victims whose evidence provided the match were Marcia Fay Chapman, Opel Mills, and Cynthia Jean Hines. The uh probability of these profiles belonging to someone other than Ridgeway was calculated at approximately one in 1.3 billion.
>> That's >> So you're saying there's a chance?
>> I knew you were going to say that.
>> So you're saying there's a chance?
>> That's so freaking amazing that it can literally give you >> like how likely it is this person. Like next to impossible it's anyone other than this person >> from ah you're okay to no bro you're cooked. You are cooked.
>> Cooked. King County detectives working under the direction of Sheriff Dave Riker and coordinating with prosecutors planned the arrest carefully. They wanted to take Rididgeway without alerting him, without allowing him to destroy evidence and without a public scene. On the morning of November 30th, 2001 2001. My god, how long? My god.
>> Years.
>> Gary Leon Ridgeway was arrested in the Kentworth truck company. Uh truck Yeah.
Truck Company parking lot as he arrived for his shift. He was 52 years old. He had been employed at Kenworth for over 30 years. He was taken into custody without incident. King County homicide detective Tom Jensen, who would spend the next two years interrogating Ridgeway and coordinating his confession, recalled the arrest. He looked surprised, not panicked, surprised. Like he was actually confused about what was happening. Whether that was real or performed, I still don't know.
>> I bet it was real. I bet he thought he'd never get when you've gotten away with it for that long.
>> Yeah. It's like why now?
>> You think you're invisible? Like you think you're invincible. You don't think you're going to get caught. I I would I would put my money on that. That was a gen a genuine reaction.
>> Yeah. Like what did I do? You know?
>> Yeah. Why are you looking for me? Me?
This innocent guy?
>> It me. The arrest was publicly announced by Sheriff Ryker the same day. The news conference was unprecedented in local history. Riker was v visibly emotional, I'm sure, and his statement was direct.
We believe we have the Green River killer in custody. Wow.
Ridgeway was initially charged with four c four counts of aggravated first-degree murder. The three victims whose DNA had been matched, plus a fourth, Carol Anne Christensen, whose case had additional physical evidence linking him.
Investigators moved quickly. A search warrant was executed on Ridgeway's Auburn home. Evidence recovered included pornographic materials consistent uh with victims targeting psychology maps of King County, Oregon, and surrounding areas with handwritten notations. Ridgeway's truck, a white Kenworth, which showed trace biological evidence on examination.
Rocks matching those found at the bodies of Chapman and Hines. Interesting, >> huh? Okay. Fibers and paint traced consistent with forensic evidence from multiple victims. photographs and personal journals that provided investigators with timeline information.
Wow.
>> I wonder where he got the rocks from.
>> Yeah, that's interesting.
>> Like I did >> I wonder if it was just like a type of like I don't know what kind of area he lived in, whether it was something that he brought something to weigh them down with him just in case like he was worried he wouldn't be able to find something, >> right? Yeah, maybe. Very interesting.
By 2002, with Ridgeway in custody and the case moving towards trial, King County prosecutor Norm Mauling faced an extraordinary decision. Washington state had the death penalty. Ridgeway faced it, but a death penalty trial would be extraordinarily expensive, potentially last year's, and critically would not necessarily result in the recovery of additional victims or the answers family needed. families needed. Ming and his team opened negotiations with Ridgeway's defense attorneys, Tony Savage and Mark Perththerero. There the offer if Ridgeway provided a complete truthful accounting of every murder he committed, locations of all the victims, full confessions, cooperations with investigation investigators, the state would take the death penalty off the table. Ridgeway accepted. The plea deal that spared Gary Rididgeway's life remains one of the most controversial decisions in Washington state's legal history. Some victims families accepted it as the only way to find their missing loved ones. Others were devastated, furious, and have never accepted it. The tension between justice and answers is at the heart of why this case continues to provoke debate.
>> What do you think? What would you do in his position >> in Ridgeways?
>> In the prosecutor's >> I was going to say, God, I hope not.
She's probably probably [ __ ] kill myself. Um, man, I think that, you know, the death penalty is too easy. It gives him a way out. I want that animal in a cage for the rest of his life, like like you said, you know.
>> Well, and I think for me, I think in this case, when there's when, you know, as the prosecutor that there's the potential that there's so many other victims, >> I I I think in this route, I'm I'm going to try to get as many answers for as many families as I can so at least they don't spend their whole life not knowing. get answers, keep him in jail for the rest of his life.
>> Lock him up because I mean, he's not getting out.
>> No, no, no, no.
>> He's not gonna get out. That's not the question.
>> But I I I see where the outrage is coming from the other families. It's like, man, you killed >> Well, yeah. Especially Especially parents. Yeah. They pro they want him dead. I don't blame them.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, >> I But I I agree with you. I I think staying alive for that long in a cozy little jail cell is >> way worse than dying.
>> Yeah, I agree. Beginning in 2002 running through 2003, a team of King County detectives led primarily by Detective Tom Jensen and Detective Randy Mullina conducted hundreds of hours of recorded interrogation sessions with Gary Rididgeway. Ridgeway, now cooperating under the terms of his plea agreement, described his crimes in meticulous, emotionless detail. He described how he had selected each victim, the approach, the moment of the killing, how he had transported and disposed of the bodies, where they were, what he had done after.
His tone, investigators noted, was the most disturbing element. He spoke about murder with the same flat effect he might use to describe a work task. He was not remorseful. He was cooperative.
And there is a difference. So, some excerpts from the Ridgeway interrogation transcripts from 2002 to 2003.
Summarize, Detective Jensen, walk me through what happened when you picked up Marsha Chapman. Ridgeway said, "She got in the truck. We drove to the river. I had been there before. I knew where to go. She didn't fight much afterwards. I put rocks on her to keep her down."
Detective Jensen, did you feel anything?
Rididgeway, I felt like I had accomplished something, like when you finish a hard job. Detective Molina, you've told us about 48 victims. Is there anyone else you've killed that you haven't told us about? Rididgeway, there may be. There were some I don't remember clearly. I tried to remember everyone for the agreement. Detective Molina, you don't remember all of them? Rididgeway, there were so many. I tried to keep track of my head, but I lost count. One of the most significant elements of Ridgeway's cooperation was his ability to lead detectives to the remains of victims who had never been found. On multiple occasions between 2002 and 2003, Ridgeway physically accompanied investigators handcuffed, accompanied by heavily armed escorts to wooded locations across King County and into Oregon where he pointed to locations on the ground and said, "Dig here." In each case that he did that, remains were found. Mhm.
>> This was the part of I mean just insane to have a memory like that for what you did.
>> The families of women who had been missing for 20 years finally learned where their daughters and sisters and mothers had been. Uh and the price of course was taking the death penalty off the table. November 5th, 2003, the guilty plea is entered. He appeared before the King County Superior Court Judge Richard Jones and entered a guilty p to 48 counts of aggravated firstdegree murder. Uh, this was the most murder convictions entered in a single US court proceeding in recorded history. Gary Ridgeway answered guilty 48 times. The proceeding, just that part, took most of the day. Ridgeway would later accept the 49th count, Robera Joseph Hayes, in 2011 when additional forensic investigations confirmed his responsibility for her death, bringing the confirmed total to 49 admitted victims. Investigators and criminologists believe the true total is much higher. Some estimates place it between 71 or 80 or more, but without physical evidence or Rididgeway's own accounting, those additional cases remain open. But that's why in some sources you'll see 48 and some you'll see 49 because the 49th wasn't added until 2011.
>> Makes sense.
>> So sad. So it's so many people.
>> Tons.
>> That's so many people.
>> Yeah.
>> And the sentencing for Gary Rididgeway took place December 18th, 2003 in King County Superior Court. Judge Richard Jones presided and it was of course one of the most extraordinary. It was you.
It was your grandfather.
>> Not that old.
>> Judge Dick Jones.
>> It was by any measure one of the most extraordinary courtroom scenes in American legal history. The families of the murdered wi women, dozens of them were given the opportunity to address the man who had killed their loved one face to face. And here are some quotes from the families. A family member of one of the Green River River victims said, "My sister was a real person. She had a name. She had people who loved her. You tried to make her nobody. She was not a nobody." A separate family member made a comment that you took 20 years of my life waiting for her. You took my mother's life waiting. You didn't just kill her. You killed parts of all of us. One moment in sentencing hearing stood out above all the others for observers and later for the families themselves. Robert Rule, whose daughter, Linda Rule, had been killed by Ridgeway in 1982 at the age of 16, came up to the microphone and said, quote, "There are people here who hate you. I'm not one of them. I forgive you. I forgive you not because of who you are, but because of who I am and who my daughter was. Hate hasn't helped. It won't bring Linda back. I don't know how you're going to live with what you've done, but I want you to know that God can forgive you. I can forgive you." And honestly, I know forgiveness is for ourselves.
>> Yeah.
>> [ __ ] that.
>> Yeah. I um >> like again I know it's for ourselves.
Everybody has their own journey.
Somebody kills my kid or my sibling or a family member. [ __ ] you.
>> Yeah, I I agree. Um and I'm not taking or trying to discredit, you know, Robert Rule here.
>> I don't. And again, it's his own journey. It's his daughter. He has to handle that in a way that can help him heal respect.
>> My thing is though, >> you say that in a room full of people with cameras. What do you say behind closed doors? Do you truly forgive somebody?
>> That's fair.
>> I And I'm not trying to say he's putting on errors or whatever, but I I just, you know, I don't know, >> you know, I I I have I unfortunately have friends and family who have lost someone to violent crime, >> right?
>> And and there have been I I would say about 40% of them say, you know, I had to forgive them because it was the only way that I could move on.
>> Yeah.
>> Because it was the only way that I could let it go, otherwise it was going to eat me up. And Ridgeway would later tell investigators in follow-up sessions that Robert Rule's statement was the only thing that made him feel anything since his arrest, which is a little like, okay, but also I that rings to me as narcissistic as, oh, see, it wasn't that bad. This guy forgives me. It almost like plates him a little bit. I'm like, none of the other stuff made you feel anything where these people are talking about someone being lost that they loved.
>> Yeah.
>> No. So, Judge Dicky Jones, >> no. sentenced Gary Leon Ridgeway to life in prison without the possibility of parole for each of the 48 counts. The sentences will run consecutively.
He also sentenced him to an additional 480 years in prison. Of course, the goal being you're never leaving prison.
>> I just imagine like as time goes on like his skeletons just in the jail.
>> They just leave and they're like he's got to stay here the whole time. He's got to stay for the next 500 years.
>> Can we move those bones for this guy?
No. So for the first one through 48 aggravated murder first-degree charges, life sentence without parole times 48 to run consecutively, which is part of the original 2003 plea. And then charge 49, which was another aggravated murder in the first degree, life without parole, which is Robera Hayes, added in 2011.
Additional counts such as tampering with evidence, 480 years consecutive. Um, obviously all of these are just to ensure that there is no chance you're getting out. Uh, Judge Jones would later address Rididgeway directly before concluding the hearing, saying, quote, "Mr. Rididgeway, there are no words adequate to your crimes. There are no words adequate to describe what you have done to the families in this courtroom.
Serial murder is the most heinous of all crimes, and you are the most prolific serial killer in this country's history.
I sentence you to life in prison for each murder without the possibility of parole consecutively."
Dun, good job, Jones. Gary Leon Ridgeway was transferred to Washington State Penitentiary in Walaw Wala, Washington.
I I can't get over that. That That's a real place. I'm sorry.
>> Where he remains incarcerated as of this recording. He is held in a protective custody unit due to the nature of his crimes and the threat other inmates pro uh pose. He is by prison staff accounts a model prisoner, compliant, quiet, unremarkable. He has given additional interviews to investigators over the over the years, adding details to known cases and occasionally information about potential additional victims. No additional charges have been filed based on postconviction statements. Several King County cold case remain o officially open and linked circumstantially to Rididgeway's pattern. The detective who pulled Opel Mills from the Green River in 1982 was elected King County Sheriff in 1997 and later served in the United States House of Representatives for for Washington's 8th congressional district. He wrote a memoir about the case titled Chasing the Devil, published in 2004. I might have to check that out.
>> Yeah.
>> He has described the Green River case as the defining event of his professional life and has spoken publicly about the personal and psychological toll of two decades spent on this investigation. And good for him. Good for him for not letting it go.
>> Yeah, because it was all on him. If he had let it go, God knows what would have happened. Yep. You know, >> for the families of the 49 confirmed victims, there is no clean ending. Some found a measure of peace in the plea deal and finally knowing where their daughters were and hearing the name said aloud in court in the CA closure of burial. Others found the deal unconscionable.
Several families had continued to advocate for stronger protections for vulnerable women and girls.
>> But >> I mean, we need that across the board.
Yeah.
>> Not just related to him.
>> Absolutely. But two decades after the arrest, several questions remain unresolved.
How many total victims? Ridgeway claimed he lost count. Investigators believe 71.
Over 71 is plausible.
>> That's crazy.
>> Over 71. Several King County Jane doe's from the 1980s remain unidentified connected to Ridgeway's clusters.
Possibly possibly possibly there were >> if they were buried anywhere near where he had other bodies. I would just assume that they were his. I mean as an investigator like obviously you can't necessarily prove it or charge him with it, but that's what I would think.
>> But I think it's safe to assume that at that point it's like yeah, he probably did that.
>> Were there uncharged accompllices or individuals who knew and said nothing? I don't know about that. I don't think with him I think he worked alone.
>> Yeah, me too.
>> He was too weird and too like >> kind of just that sneaky, silent, cunning, >> too narcissistic.
>> I don't think so.
>> Yeah. How many remains in Oregon and beyond or never recovered? I mean, so probably a few.
>> Why did law enforcement not act more aggressively on Ridgeway as a suspect in ' 84 to 87? That's my thing.
>> Yep. I mean there uh I forget her name, but she approached the police, said he tried to strangle me.
>> Yeah.
>> Can't you arrest him for that? You know, like maybe even attempted murder.
>> But like that's that that to me is the only thing that stains all this with the with law enforcement. It's like why didn't you guys like pursue him a little bit harder?
>> Yeah. Push a little bit. It really wasn't until the bodies really stacked up.
>> Yeah.
>> That they did anything about it. And and again, I'm being an armchair quarterback here and looking at it going true. You know, it's it's like that, you know, the joke of that guy sucks. You know, meanwhile, you're eating, you know, cheese doodles.
>> You're eating Doritos on the couch watching a NFL running back like >> I could do that.
>> What is he doing?
>> What a loser.
>> Yeah. Meanwhile, they're like the best athletes in the world, you know?
>> Yeah. Like watch the Olympics. Yeah. The Olympics. People are sitting there Facebook just criticizing him. Yeah.
With their >> wraparound Oakley glasses on.
>> Oh yeah. What? Listen to their Joe Rogan, right? Or whatever the what do these idiots listen to?
>> Joe.
>> Never heard of her. Anyway, >> never heard of her.
>> The Green River murders exposed system systemic failures in how law enforcement responded to the disappearances of marginalized women. They sparked legislative debate about sex worker safety. They led directly to the reform of how King County and many other jurisdictions classified and investigated missing persons reports for individuals involved in the sex trade.
In the language of criminal justice, these women were high-risk victims. Gary Ridgeway chose them because he knew that phrase meant people would look away.
Monster. The enduring lesson of the Green River case, one that advocates families and reformed investigators repeat without hesitation, is that the phrase high-risk victim must never mean someone we look for less.
>> Yeah, I agree.
>> And that we spend less resources on.
>> Y >> and the most recent Gary Rididgeway update is that according to five anonymous sources with knowledge of Rididgeway's condition confirm that he is receiving end of life care. I heard that >> um as of December of this last year, the spokesperson for the Washington State Department of Corrections disputes the claim. However, again, there are those five uh saying that he is in fact receiving end of life care.
>> What does end of life care? Throw him on a pile of >> just let him like like chain him to chain him to the wall.
>> Yeah.
>> Um so he he seems to be on his way out.
Although I don't know >> how old he is. Well, he was arrested in 2003. He was 52. Mhm.
>> So he's what 54 55 now or 55 74 75. Wow.
Didn't even I didn't even add it. I just >> Are you from Florida, too?
>> Oh my god.
>> So he's in his 70s now.
>> He's 77.
>> Yeah. So he he can go ahead and exit the earth. That would be fine. That would be fine.
>> Wow.
>> Brutal.
>> Yeah.
>> 20 years.
>> Amazing he got away that long.
>> Well, and and I mean that's that says something too about, you know, um crime now is the technology is so much better.
It is way harder to get away with what they used to do back then. All right, y'all. Now, time for the travel portion.
We're going to go to Seattle. Um, and I have heard I have not spent a lot of time in the Pacific Northwest. Um, obviously I have a friend who lives there because she loves like rain and dreary weather. Like that is her favorite thing in the world. So, she loves living there. But also, I'm told that in like July and August, it is like the most beautiful place.
>> That's awesome.
>> To be, which is incredible. Um, but yeah, we're just going to start. I built this kind of around local uh places to visit, hidden speak easys, of course, worldclass coffee, something Seattle's known for, uh, outdoors, live music, very artistic uh, city as well. And of course, bring a light jacket and an umbrella.
>> So, your first stop is going to be Elm Coffee Roasters, which is minimalist.
It's very quiet, serving some of the best espresso in the city that is a very coffee forward city. They have a single origin filter coffees that will kind of I think reset your baseline expectations. This is in Pioneer Square.
And of course, go to Pike Place Market, the real visit. Show up before 10:00 a.m. Um, and it belongs to the locals.
This is still a very local spot. Watch the fish mongers throw salmon at Pike Place Fish Company. Pay your respects to Rachel at the brass pig. Uh, you rub the snout for good luck, just so you know.
Love it.
>> Grab a bag of peroski peroski cheese and potato perchki and eat it while walking.
And honestly, I would kill for some potato peroski right now. Sounds good because I'm so hungry. I'm so hungry.
Um, they also there's just a lot of really cool places. But visit the whole market. For midday, go to Bill Spidle's underground tour. Under the streets of Pioneer Square, sits the original city of Seattle, abandoned after the great fire of 1889 and rebuilt one story higher above it. The tour is genuinely fascinating and also really funny. You walk through the subterranean storefronts that are just kind of frozen in time, but your guide will tell you about the city's sketchy, glorious gold rush pass. This particular tour, which it's just so cool to see the original city under the city, but this one sells out pretty fast. So, make sure you book that one ahead.
>> I bet.
>> For lunch, go to Salumi Artisan Cured Meats. Going to do some shakurerie. I clearly was not as hungry as I am now when I wrote this. This was founded by the late Armandino Batali. This tiny salumeriia is a pioneer square legend.
Their porchetta sandwich is amazing, but this is cash only. And this is also one of those places that there's going to be a line, but it's worth it. And they're also really quick because they're used to having a line. Um, there's this is one of the places where there's cured meats hanging from the ceiling. It's warm. It's a little chaotic family like kind of this family kitchen energy.
>> Um, really, really cool. In the afternoon, go to the gum wall. Uh, this is a brick alleyway beneath Pipe Place Market covered floor to ceiling in two decades of colorful, sculptural, and honestly a little bit gross. Chewing gum art.
>> It's been cleaned twice. It grows back within weeks. It's been called one of the most geriest tourist attractions in the world, but it's also kind of amazing. And if you're a gum tour, you can just >> I knew you'd love that one. I had to include it. I had to include it.
And then you can go to the Olympic Sculpture Park and Waterfront. So if you go to the newly rebuilt Seattle water waterfront to the Olympic Sculpture Park, it's a freeun outdoor museum with massive contemporary sculptures against the backdrop of Puget Sound and the Olympic Mountains. The Alexander Calder Eagle Sculpture alone is worth it. Um, this was recommended to go in late afternoon. I have not seen this sculpture park yet. For evening, go to dinner at the the pink door. Uh, there's no sign. It's an unmarked door on Post Alley. It's literally just a pink door.
That's how you know that you found it.
Inside is an Italian-American tratoria with trapeze artists performing above the tables on the weekends, live cabaret, and a rooftop deck with a beautiful view of Elliot Bay. The Casio de Pepe is a religion is the quote that I found on that cuz I was like, religion? Okay. Um, and this is another one. Reserve well in advance and if the weather is nice, ask for the deck. But I love that it's just you just have to find a pink door.
>> Easy enough.
>> If there's no sign, just you know the general location and you look for a pink door. And then for the nighttime, go to uh we're to do a couple speak easy options so you can choose your own adventure. You can go to both if you're feeling frisky. Um Kneeh High Stocking Company is hidden behind an unmarked door in a Pioneer Square basement. Kneeh High is Seattle's most committed speak easy experience. It is period appropriate decor. Tin ceilings, velvet booths, dim candle light. The bartenders know they're pre prohibition cocktails.
So like these are actual pre prohibition cocktails.
>> Oh, I love that.
>> Order the bees knees or let them make you something off the menu. So the secret here if you're looking for it is you look for a small white door with a brass knocker on 1 Avenue South. There's no sign. Ring the bell. Dress up a little bit. They do appreciate the effort. Again, this is very they want you to lean in to the period piece of it.
And then bathtub jin and company. Um head to it's a narrow candle lit bar that feels like you've been transported to 1923. If you listen to my uh Lacosa Nostra um mob episode with New York City, there's also one of these in New York. The house infused gins are incredible. The cocktail menu leans heavy on citrus and botanicals. It's small though. The bar seats maybe 30 people. And if you ask the bartender for a bath special, it's an off-men gin creation they'll make based on your flavor preferences.
Day two, starting with coffee again because we're not going to we can't skip it. We can't do it. Go to Victrola Coffee Roasters, the anchor of Capitol Hill Coffee since 2000. It's got a big warm window lit space. Rotating single origins on the brew bar are worth a detour by themselves. Their espresso blend is classic for a reason. And this is where you'll see everyone like students, writers, tech workers, musicians. This kind of covers the Capitol Hill uh area. Um, but there's also, if you want a different one, Analog Coffee is a tiny kind of weird spot. It's named after the audio format that they play exclusively. They only play analog on vinyl on the turntable always.
>> And it's just it's just a little bit more quirky. They prefer cash and there's no Wi-Fi because they want you to sit and like be and be present. So, there's no Wi-Fi in that coffee shop, but there's just a little, you know, you can choose your own adventure.
>> For brunch, we're going to go to Biscuit [ __ ] The name tells you everything. So, this is southern biscuit culture transplanted into Seattle. The biscuits are enormous, fluffy, and smothered in gravy, fried chicken, soft scrambled eggs, or you can get all three if you would like. Uh, another one that has a little bit of a line, but worth it. And don't skip the side of house gravy.
>> Dude, I'm starving.
>> I'm starving right now. And now you're hungry.
>> Yeah, it's just instantaneous.
>> I'm so heavy on some of these. I'm like, what was I doing? Like, why am I am I always hungry? It's brutal.
>> It's brutal. Um, then go to the Wall of Sound Records, one of Seattle's best independent record shops. It is stacked floor to ceiling with new and used vinyl in every genre. The staff recommendations board alone is amazing.
So, like all of the staff will be like, "This is the vinyl to get right now.
This is the best one we have." Which is cool because you might discover a new band that you've never heard. Uh, budget like 45 minutes in a credit card. Just just my just my recommendation.
>> Do it now. And then later in the afternoon, go to uh Volunteer Park and the Asian Art Museum. Uh it's a Frederick Law Olmstead designed park on Capitol Hill's highest point. The grounds are really beautiful. There's a pond you can sit by. And the Seattle Asian Art Museum inside is smaller, but really, really excellent. And then you can look at the surrounding neighborhood. There's a lot of Victorian and Craftsman homes. So, if you're kind of into like just seeing like a local neighborhood, it's a great place to go.
For dinner, go to Kadai Min. Uh and I double checked the pronunciation on that. I hope it's right. Uh, this is a Malaysian homecooked spot. Uh, small, cozy. The menu rotates seasonally and the line to get in is part of the experience. They don't take reservations. Arrive 20 minutes before they open.
>> Nice >> was the recommendation. And then live music at Numos. This is the spiritual heart of Seattle's live music scene on Capitol Hill. It's a 600 capacity room.
Incredible sound. The booking calendar is is a is just wide. Uh Nirvana played its predecessor venue uh before it became the Numos. Matt Lammore got his start here and so check the schedule in advance. I mean they've got all kinds of genres. A lot of really cool up and cominging artists. A lot of history. Um it is standing room. Uh and one of the nice things about this that I saw in several reviews is that there's good sound no matter where you stand in the room, which is great.
>> And then for day three, we're going to get outside a little bit. Um so this one requires a little bit of an earlier start. um leave Seattle by 7 to beat the crowd at the rattlesnake ledge or the trail head to rattlesnake ledge. The hike is through Second Growth Douglas Fur and Cedar Forest. It's uphill and then the ledge opens up and you get this jaw-dropping view of Rattlesnake Lake.
Uh and on clear days a slice of Mount Reneer. Bring layers, bring snacks, uh bring a Northwest Recreation Pass or you can pay $5 at the Iron Host. This is one of those things that like especially just seeing the outdoors. This is one of the things that's so special about the Pacific Northwest is this cool, it's an outdoorsy kind of lifestyle in a different way than the Southwest is or even Colorado.
>> Um, so it's it's well worth going. If you want an easier option, you can go to Snqualami Falls. This is one of Washington State's most iconic national landmarks, natural landmarks. It's a 268 ft waterfall that falls into a 65- ft deep pool. The observation deck at the top is 5 minutes from the parking lot.
The trail descends to the base if you want to see like have like the full mist in-your-face experience, but it's really really beautiful. And even if you don't want to go see the waterfall, look at pictures of it. It's really really beautiful. Um, for the afternoon, we're going to go to Fremont, which is quote the center of the universe. Fremont officially declared itself the center of the universe in 1994 and never looked back. It has 18 ft Soviet area Lenin statue, a troll who lives under a bridge, a rocket ship bolted to a building, and a Sunday market that feels like a really nice fever dream. It also has some of the best coffee in the city and has an excellent craft brewery.
That's another thing that's really if you're a beer drinker. I didn't put too much of the brewing in here. There's a little bit, but also Seattle's a great place if you're a beer drinker. So, first go to the Fremont Troll and Lenin statue. The Fremont Troll is an 18 ft concrete sculpture lurking under the Aurora Bridge, clutching an actual VW Beetle in one of its fists. It was installed by neighborhood artists in 1990 to combat drug use under the bridge. It worked. Now it's Seattle's most beloved public art piece. Two blocks away is a full-size bronze Vladimir Lenin that stands in the parking lot. Relocated from Slovakia after the Soviet collapse, purchased by a local who thought it was interesting.
Just put it there.
>> That is a cool piece.
>> Yeah, it's really cool piece of history.
>> Yeah. And just like to be able to get it and just set it up in your city and be like, I just thought this was interesting.
>> I'd get it and set up in my front yard and bother my neighbor.
>> Really freak people out.
>> Was that Lennon over there? Yes. Yes, it is.
>> Um, and if you're like me and you need more than one cup of coffee today since we're in a separate location, there's a tiny beloved neighborhood roaster called Lighthouse Roers uh in a converted garage space. This is like super simple, but it's very local. It's very local.
So, this is about the coffee and nothing else. The regulars have been coming here for 20 years and will probably be there when you show up. It's it's well worth it. Get your get your second cup of coffee there. And then for you beer drinkers, uh go to Fremont Brewing, which is one of Seattle's best craft breweries with massive indooroutdoor space, lots of picnic tables, friendly dogs, just a really nice local, relaxed outdoor beer garden kind of space. Um and then for evening, go to dinner at the Walrus and the Carpenter. Again, another one that you'll have to make a reservation for. And I included this because I know even though it's not my favorite, I know how many people really love oysters.
>> I am not the biggest fan, >> but I'm coming around to it. I've been taught some things about how to eat them, what to pair them with.
>> Yeah. Don't.
>> But this place has It's Renee Ericson's Legendary Oyster Bar is the hardest reservation to get in Seattle, but worth the effort.
>> Um, that's why I said make the reservation now. It's a raw bar stacked with Pacific Northwest oysters alongside a constantly rotating small plates menu of the freshest possible local seafood.
And this is a big thing for me. It I'm not a big seafood eater. Mether, >> but if I'm in a coastal town, I'm much more open to it because I want it fresh.
When I'm in a landlock state like Tennessee, I'm a little sketched out.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> I'm a little suspicious. Don't be suspicious.
>> What do you mean you want to eat fish from that card outside the venue? It's safe. Good lord. Um, the room is warm, close, candle lit, and it says they said they recommended booking a month out in advance, but if you can't get a reservation, show up at 5 and put your name on the walk-in list. They do reserve some space for walk-ins.
>> Good lord.
>> And then we're going to go to Tractor Tavern.
>> Okay, >> this is in in the Ballard area. Ballard Institution uh converted industrial space. The Tractor books and it has an eclective lineup. This is a music venue.
Americana, folk country, alt rock, bluegrass, and does it with excellent sound and a nice layout. The crowd is always great. There's always a full bar.
Feels very local. Um, this is a great place. I think a little bit I probably not quite as big of names, maybe a notch down from Numos. A little bit more local bands.
>> That's cool.
>> Um, but a nice wide variet variety of people. It doesn't quite have the same history of Numos and its predecessor.
>> You say they played Americana and country in >> Yeah, they did. for you country folks.
Luke Bryan's song.
>> Get out of my head.
>> Climb tree is insane. That is insane.
>> 18 what?
>> 18 what? Guys, if that song Oh my god.
>> If that's the best Nashville has to offer, we're like they're >> like, did you did you watch the video I did where I sang the comment of the >> wake up eat ass clean teeth?
Like that's disgusting and I'm proud of you.
>> For for a little context real quick, everybody, it's the new Luke Brian song that I subjected to.
>> I encourage everybody every single one of our listeners to go listen to and get back with us in a week.
>> Yeah. And if you don't like country, it's going to sound like every country song sounds to you.
>> Yeah. It's bad.
>> It's really bad, though.
>> You can't tell me that. I don't even want to throw shade on like I I like the women in country a lot more than the men in country at least since like 2013.
>> And what sucks about it is like '9s country was so good. Oh yeah, >> the outlaw country was so good. I don't know what I could go wrong with Merl.
Good.
>> I don't know what this baby back [ __ ] is. Like what is it? He's like wake up coffee camo climb tree.
>> Uh >> I can't remember. Then it's something something 18.
Hunt fish golf drink.
>> I think I think the song is called hunt fish golf drink. And it's literally just like somebody So like, "Hey Alexa, write me a country song."
>> Oh yeah.
>> Using only country buzzwords.
>> Dude, if if there was a if there was a room full of writers here in town writing that national cooked.
>> You should be ashamed. I did put in the comments though. I said, "Guys, 18 and what wrong answers only." It was so funny.
>> It's wake up coffee camo climb tree wet line 18 fish hunt golf drink >> 18 what I guess holes for golf but >> or like yeah people guessed holes for golf 18-wheeler someone put uh he knows the age of consent I was like damn >> that's kind of what I went to first >> at first that's where my brain went. I didn't mean to interrupt the travel itinerary, but I thought this was very important.
>> It is important. Oh, that everybody besides me.
>> I would rather live parked or rather live rather here parked out by the lake.
>> Like by far >> by far.
>> I feel like at least parked out by the lake has some emotion behind it.
>> Well, and it's also it's meant to be funny.
>> Yeah, true.
>> And and also Luke's music video is like also AI cuz apparently they couldn't afford an actual lake. And he's dancing in a way that makes it seem like he's never been in a skeleton before. Like he's never had a skeleton. He's moving so weird.
>> It's awesome. My thing >> and he's in the comments like fighting people over this song because he's getting dragged over it. It's so great.
>> He's like, "It's just a fun song." Like, "No, it's not."
>> No, it's a really bad one, Luke.
>> You know, and you know what, Luke?
>> It's not good.
>> I'll go on the record right now. It blows some people's mind. He looks just like Buttad from Beas and Butad. I have on good authority from a former masseuse that he also laughs exactly like him.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes.
>> Have it on good authority.
>> [ __ ] yeah.
>> Anyways, >> sorry.
>> Sorry. Day four. Um, day four. We're going to go to her Chittenden locks. Uh, this is the busiest lock system in the US. So, this is a boat system. They pass between the salt water of Puget Sound and the freshwater of Lake Union all day long. Um, but the real show is there's an underground fish ladder where from June through November you can watch Sakai and Chinuk salmon navigate their ancient migration through a glasswalled underwater viewing corridor. So you can actually watch them do it which is pretty cool.
>> That's cool.
>> Um, and then this is kind of an underrated gem in my opinion is the Nordic Museum.
>> Nice.
>> Ballard was settled by Scandinavian fishermen in the 1880s and the Nordic Museum is genuinely like a really cool tribute to their heritage. The building itself is striking. It's modern Nordic design with dramatic light. And inside there's Viking history, Nordic immigration stories, design, folk art, contemporary Scandinavian culture, and they have a great cafe in there as well.
Um, and it's free the first Thursday of every month if you happen to be there at the same time.
>> Sweet.
>> For the afternoon, this is I base this on going when it's at least warm. Lake Union kayaking. So, rent a kayak or a stand-up paddle board, which is my favorite from the Northwest Outdoor Center on Lake Union and paddle through the city, which is so cool. You'll pass the famous floating home neighborhood, see uh sea planes taking off, glide under the Fremont Bridge, get a view of the Seattle skyline. A really cool way to see the city, >> I bet.
>> Um but then arrive 30 minutes before sunset to Kerry Park. It's the best viewpoint in Seattle. Like it's so beautiful. Uh it's in Queen Anne Hill.
You'll get a full Seattle skyline, the Space Needle, the downtown towers, Elliot Bay, and on Clear Day's Mount Reneer uh floating kind of in the background. And of course, if you've never been to Seattle, obviously go to the Space Needle, go to these really like big, you know, tourist areas. I I built this itinerary a little bit more locally flavored, but any I always recommend when you go to a new city, go see the big things. They're a big thing for a reason. When you go back to that city, you don't have to go see them again if you don't want to. For that night, go to Whiskey and Bitters Emporium. Uh this is for multiple years has been on the world's 50 best bars list. There's over 4,000 spirits. Of course, whiskey menu is a book. Like, it's an actual book covering scotch, bourbon, rye, Japanese, Irish, um, other things you've probably never heard of. I actually I love Japanese whiskey.
>> It is so good. It's lighter.
>> Yeah.
>> And there's smoothness to it. Oh, it is so delicious.
>> And that's not like a saki, is it?
>> No, it's an actual whiskey.
>> Cool.
>> Um, and they their space is dark. It's narrow. It's so many bookshelves.
Um, so you could just, you know, spend your time there, drink as much whiskey as possible, or you can also go to Robroy, which is in Belltown. This is, um, named after the cocktail. Uh, Rob is Belltown's most sophisticated bar. So, if you're looking for like a little bit more kind of general cocktail bar, but sophisticated, Manhattan influenced, um, you can go to Roboys instead. And for our last last day, for the final coffee ritual, if you will, uh, your final Seattle coffee should be slate. They approach coffee with the vocabulary of wine such as terry or brightness, finish, mouth feel. And it is some of the most meticulously sourced and prepared coffee in the city. They do not they do not play around. They don't do flavored syrups. They do it's just coffee. And again, this is a place also where it's frowned upon to have a laptop. They want you to be present.
They want you to enjoy it, sit with people.
>> Sweet. Um there's also in the morning you can go to Gas Works Park which is a decommission de decommissioned gasification plant in Lake Union that was converted into a park in the 70s. So you can still see the rusting industrial towers that were left standing. The hilltop gives you a beautiful beautiful view of Lake Union. Um it's often used for like kite flying picnics. There's this urban kind of thought and beauty to it which is really really cool. and then go to the MOP, the Museum of Pop Culture, and uh most places recommend 2 to three hours. Frank Gedry's wildly crumpled iridescent building at the Seattle Center is very distinct in how it looks and the collection inside kind of matches. There's the Jimmyi Hendris collection. Um he's from Seattle and the this museum was actually his idea.
>> Um is extraordinary. They have his guitars, handwritten lyrics, records spanning his career. There's obviously, of course, a Nirvana exhibit and the broader Pacific Northwest music history, specifically the grunge era. Cool.
>> Um, the science fiction wing is also really great. And there's an interactive guitar room that lets you play, Andy.
>> Sweet.
>> I would love to go. I love it's one of my favorite genres. It's just there's something so like meaty and felt through it. And it's like the last era of music before streaming. Like before you could go on YouTube and like what how do I make this sound or how do I do this or what does this sound like? where you had to really sit in a room with the sound.
>> Yeah, there's definitely a little more of an art form to it. I'm not the biggest grunge fan. I mean, but I can I appreciate a lot of the bands and artists and and everything. I mean, it's it's killer and after what Hair Metal did to the 80s, it needed to happen, >> right? Exactly. We needed we needed s to sit down for a minute.
>> Yeah. Good lord.
>> Um in the afternoon of your last day, I would go to Georgetown, which is the oldest neighborhood sits south of downtown in a former industrial area.
This is Boeing's original home, but there's just a bunch of working artists there, like active galleries, vintage shops, hole-in-the-wall bars. It's just a really cool place to walk around.
>> Drop me off there, >> right? Just leave you there. Uh, two places I would recommend popping into is Jules Jules Maze Saloon is the oldest bar in Seattle. And then Georgetown Records is an amazing place for vinyl.
Um, and for your last dinner, Ivar's Acres of Clams. I know there's a lot of seafood here, but this is kind of what they're known for, so I wanted to lean in. Um, it's been on the waterfront since 1938. Wow.
>> The chowder is legendary. And I do love clam chowder. A nicely made clam chowder. I'm actually all about the fish and chips are also delicious. And you're eating at a table looking overlooking Elliot Bay and the fairies that are going back and forth. And for your last night music-wise, Demetrio's Jazz Alley.
This is Seattle's premier jazz venue that's been operating since 1979, booking national and international acts.
Uh, this is the supper club format, which is my favorite kind of jazz club.
It's my favorite thing to do if I'm taking myself out >> for a night. Um, there's tables on the floor, booths along the walls. It's really, really beautiful. There's dinner service before the show, and they do everything from traditional jazz to contemporary jazz to blues to soul. Um, you can book your tickets and your dinner reservation together. Um, couple other places music-wise I wanted to mention. The Crocodile, which is in Belltown, Nirvana played here. It's got a 500 capacity. So just check the calendar if you're there. The Triple Door is a downtown supper club that does jazz cabaret world music. So a little bit more laid-back but wider variety.
And then there's Chopsui, which is the Capitol Hill dive with a legendary sound system, late shows. This is a lot of emerging artists, more of a divy cool >> situation. And a couple recommendations for where to stay. Um Ace Hotel in Seattle, the is in Capitol Hill. It's creative, slightly funky, unpretentious.
Rooms range from shared bath budgets, so you can like have a mutual bathroom, if you've ever stayed in a hotel like that, to proper suites. This is a place that if you need a little bit more flexibility in your um spending, that's going to work well. But there's also the hotel Sarrento. Slightly more expensive.
Also in First Hill, built in 1909 and one of Seattle's most story storied small hotels. Red brick Italian Renaissance architecture. The fireside room bar and the lobby is legendary.
This is a great place to like go visit if you just want to pop in. And that's a short walk from Capitol Hill and downtown. And this is a nice This is a place where visiting authors and jazz musicians and people like that kind of stay. Very historic and elegant without um being stuffy, if you will.
And that's it. All right, >> that's it for Seattle. I could go for a rainy day right now. It's been hot as balls.
>> I think it's supposed to rain like for the next 6,000 days.
>> Is it really?
>> I think so.
>> It's about that time. I'm I do love warmer temperatures, but then it just gets so hot here so fast. I can't keep up. So, >> it's brutal.
>> Well, listen everybody. Stay safe. Drink amazing coffee. Eat the great seafood when you're in a city that's next to the sea >> and care care about people no matter who they are or their station in life.
>> Most importantly, >> we can just love on each other and not treat people like they're less than.
>> Yeah. I think the world needs a lot of that.
>> A lot of that right now.
>> We have a lot more in common than we have indifference.
Um, and I will see you, we will see you next week on Highway to Hill.
>> Thanks, guys.
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