Pause to reset: – #JohnMugo on #DDwithMaqC

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:00]After doing UWEZO every year for 6 years, for 6 years, I I was >> Yeah. Again. again finished.

[00:00:07]>> at that point of I was Your hand has been giving >> was the worst That was the worst I've come. I've come to that That was the worst burnout. And I didn't know it was burnout. Mhm.

[00:00:18]So, I started feeling, you know, this forgetting people and all that. I thought my instincts told me I need a break. Mhm. So, I went to my boss. I I told him I feel truly that I need a break. So, I was feeling rejuvenated and I started feeling very different.

[00:00:38]And I still remember that call I made to my boss to tell him I am sorry. I can't come back.

[00:00:47]>> [music] >> When I look now at what we have been able to do over that you know that time time of very intense engagement [music] Mhm. applying our research that, you know, we are university people. We moved out to now engage in this very practical Mhm. research, but also not to focus on research it as an end to itself, but research as a beginning of something of some change that that ought to happen. I think that the journey has been exhausting, but also very rewarding.

[00:01:23]Mhm. Mhm.

[00:01:24]You CBC CBC [music] came along the way.

[00:01:28]Yes, CBC was actually partly owed to our research.

[00:01:33]>> Mhm. Because what the UWEZO assessment was saying was basically that this education system is not working.

[00:01:41]>> Mhm.

[00:01:41]Mhm.

[00:01:42]70% of children in [music] grade three cannot read text of grade two.

[00:01:49]Uh 13% of those completing standard eight [music] cannot read a standard two level.

[00:01:56]So, What are we doing?

[00:01:58]>> You cannot continue Mhm. uh doing the same and hoping for different results.

[00:02:03]We have to to change. But but also the main problem was we were assuming that formal and white-collar jobs >> Mhm.

[00:02:13]was a pathway to everyone. You You know you know you know that song of so many vijana, you know, go to school mtapata kazi nzuri sana.

[00:02:21]That no longer was holding.

[00:02:24]So, it's many things coming into play, not just a single thing.

[00:02:29]>> Yeah. The But then it's many years of re- of repeating the same thing. With the same system. Yeah.

[00:02:40]The change the acceptance change fundamentally needs to happen at at a very >> [music] >> um incentivized intra- personal level. So, you go with a few of the officials to the counties. They begin seeing this.

[00:02:58]How long does it take to actually begin seeing some of these [music] adjustments? And do you get like uh sponsors internally, [music] people who are beginning to believe and starting to see the change?

[00:03:11]Yeah, and that's why we have never lost lost hope or given up because we have experienced many many early adopters.

[00:03:21]People who will listen to you like this for the first time.

[00:03:26]And they tell you I want us to meet tomorrow.

[00:03:29]You tell me more about about this thing.

[00:03:31]I want to understand it more. Those those Kenyans are there and I think those are the change makers.

[00:03:36]People have many people I could cite who are in big positions when we list um the results, they they asked that we go present to them and they listened. And even though they won't tell you that they are doing any big difference, you will hear that something changed as a as a result of that. So, and that's >> [music] >> the whole essence around uh movement building because it is those people within the system that actually [music] can very best change the system.

[00:04:07]>> Mhm. It's very difficult to change something from outside.

[00:04:10]>> yeah.

[00:04:11]>> Because you you don't The layers are many.

[00:04:14]>> Yeah, yeah, that and that's how the system is. But when a certain PS [music] pays attention >> Mhm. or a certain director in charge of quality assurance pays attention [music] >> Mhm. then they are able to see the possibilities within it and where they would start.

[00:04:29]>> [music] >> And and So, we we transform now from just saying there's a problem there's a problem there's a problem there's a problem to also being part of the solution.

[00:04:38]And and that has been my journey now for the last the last 8 years working with the system to find solutions.

[00:04:46]A little bit about UWEZO and the name in itself.

[00:04:52]Yeah, UWEZO capability um so, focusing on competence Mhm.

[00:04:59]rather than knowledge rather than how many times I've attended school.

[00:05:03][music] So, it was intentionally called UWEZO. It's not an acronym.

[00:05:06]>> No, no, no, no, no.

[00:05:08]It It was just a name. To focus on capability.

[00:05:11]>> To focus on capability. Yeah.

[00:05:15]And so, what happens now with with with you and [music] and I mean this is exhausting work. It's passionate work. It's life-giving.

[00:05:25]It's equally draining because it's slow and the battles you're fighting are uh too many.

[00:05:30]>> I I too many and some are not of this realm because they're like yeah, these are things we've inherited from different realms. So, we after doing UWEZO every year for 6 years, for 6 years, I I was >> Yeah. Again.

[00:05:45]>> again finished.

[00:05:46]>> At that at that point of I was uh Your hand has been And that was the worst That was the worst I've come. I've come to that That was the worst burnout. And I didn't know it was burnout. Mhm.

[00:05:58]So, I started feeling, you you know, this forgetting people and all that. I thought my instincts [music] told me I need a break. Mhm. So, I went to my boss. I I told him I feel truly that I need a break.

[00:06:13]Could you give me a sabbatical break? Of course, it is not an easy thing because you are a costly staff member. Your salary is high. So, while you are away, who will be doing your work? Then how will we pay you while you are away? But the the board of UWEZO actually saw my contribution and acknowledged it and they gave me 3 months.

[00:06:33]3 months walk away. Go do whatever you want to do and come back after 3 months.

[00:06:39]So, after only 1 month I felt very different.

[00:06:47]I felt maybe what I had felt like 4 5 years back.

[00:06:54]And it was vivid to me how much burden I had carried so intensely for years you're putting in for so long.

[00:07:02]My memory, you know, had gone. I was feeling exhausted.

[00:07:07]>> [music] >> So, I was feeling rejuvenated and I started feeling very different.

[00:07:13]And I still remember that call I made to my boss [music] to tell him I am sorry. I can't come back.

[00:07:21]And and that was a hard decision.

[00:07:24]It was first of all, it was a very good job, >> [music] >> very good perks, even had school fees for children in in international school and so on.

[00:07:31]>> [music] >> And I have no job.

[00:07:34]You you know, so but I was very clear of one thing.

[00:07:40]I have to change direction. [music] I can't continue this way.

[00:07:46]So, my boss told me, "No, what are you saying? You can't come back."

[00:07:51]So, he paid for me a ticket to fly to Dar es Salaam.

[00:07:55]To go tell him what I'm saying in in in in in one-on-one.

[00:08:00]So, I flew to Dar es Salaam. I told him I done. I'm so sorry. I know you are so kind to me giving me 3 months break to go.

[00:08:10]But I was burnt out. [music] And it will it might take quite a bit more time to recover.

[00:08:20]And and so, that's how I left UWEZO so unceremoniously not planned but just because I stepped out. was colored.

[00:08:31]Uh and you know what what I had forgotten.

[00:08:34]Which is Which which which which was, you know, waking waking up feeling a little energized.

[00:08:42]Um not feeling the tension in the body and and the muscles, you know, feeling relaxed.

[00:08:49]I started remembering things I had forgotten.

[00:08:52]You know, the the meaning the brain was was undergoing some some process.

[00:08:58]And I realized how how damaged actually I was at that moment.

[00:09:03]And and at that point I just told my wife, "I'm sorry. I This is a nice job.

[00:09:09]You know, we we we have a good life, but [music] the it it has really gotten into me and we had to agree yeah, I have to move on." How was that though?

[00:09:20]How I'm asking that now as a as a husband, as a father, as someone in the journey.

[00:09:26]How how was that for the for her?

[00:09:33]I'm assuming in this case, >> [music] >> as as you say, the school fees, the the lifestyle of afforded was substantially because of your your the sweats. The The one The one thing about me is that uh I'm very very I'm a big optimist.

[00:09:56]>> Mhm.

[00:09:58]And and so I knew that there was no way I would lack something to do.

[00:10:04]And remember I've never been jobless since Kenyatta University I I was doing my gigs.

[00:10:09]And and so I knew >> [music] [laughter] >> I I was I I I knew for sure there there is no way.

[00:10:21]If I step into this town that and and say that I'm available then there is no way I would lack something to do.

[00:10:27]And and then the second is the attitude.

[00:10:30]I can do anything. Even in this village if if you follow me on Wednesday I'll I'll be in in my gumboots pulling weeds with with with with the women on my farm and I'm paying them but I'm I'm part of them. You you know pulling. I'm not this this person who who who who you you know because I understand also the importance of physical work.

[00:10:50]As health.

[00:10:51]So so I'm that person who can pull a kokoteni in town if I've nothing else to do.

[00:10:58]You you you know so so also that agility I I think is something >> [music] >> that got into me. So I'm not a person who will sit in the house saying I'm desperate.

[00:11:10]There's always work to do. I I may not get the money but I can't lack work. Not a single day.

[00:11:17]And and and so and remember also I'd done consultancies before so to revive consultancies. But also the last thing I never go for lifestyles that I can't sustain even now.

[00:11:33]Because I know big salaries and all that are deceptive.

[00:11:37]But also I've never been in a situation where my life is about looking for money.

[00:11:43]Money for me facilitates me to do things.

[00:11:47]But the [snorts] biggest thing that money does for me is helping someone.

[00:11:53]That's that's the biggest Like now of the salary I earn.

[00:11:58]So it's not in the times of in terms of the car I drive or the house I live or where I live. I don't have those packages.

[00:12:05]I I can live in any estate if if that's the the the the rent I can afford or or my little house is here opposite here that are one room.

[00:12:15]I I would move there and and live there if if that's what the the situation called for. And and and I would build myself again. So so I think that agility meaning also that despite the those parts of school fees I wouldn't take my children to to Braeburn.

[00:12:33]And that money was enough to take my children to Braeburn. But then I always knew what if a day comes A day comes when either me or I'm not there and and also I'm at peace with death. What what if I'm not I die and I'm not there.

[00:12:48]What will happen to my children?

[00:12:50]So I always main maintain a level of life where I know I can always I I can always sustain it. So so so it wasn't any big deal for me. It was a little big deal for my wife.

[00:13:03]But then it's about me and and my life and the good thing is that she has also always been working.

[00:13:09]>> [music] >> And and and that helps that that is is not it was not entirely dependent on me.

[00:13:15]They say in in in in marriages there needs to be one who can there needs to be one who is you know like stable with something that government employees. You know the ones who are employed forever and then one who can wake up and say nice.

[00:13:32]I I am a big risk taker. I am a big I I have lost many things because of that risk behavior.

[00:13:42]But but but you also I have I've gained more than I've lost.

[00:13:46]Because you lose something here you take the next risk. You you know if if I lose something like now if I came here and somebody said uh this plot is mine and they went to court and they demonstrated it's their plot.

[00:13:58]I'll figure out uh where else can I move? Who owns this next plot?

[00:14:04]Can I afford it? I move there.

[00:14:06]You you know I'm I'm I'm I'm able to also move on. But you see the fact that I've bought this other one then with time it will also appreciate and I'll regain. So so you lose here you gain there and and uh when the average is done at the end of it all I'll have gained more than I lost.

[00:14:25]You have some sure bets and then you have some risky bets that [music] that you sort of like place and make.

[00:14:33]So you and in this break your boss No you're in Tanzania now telling your boss you will not come back. Yes and then of course it's hard for him to accept but he has no choice so he accepts.

[00:14:48]I leave in August. So so I I'd been given that that break I think to run from July August and September.

[00:14:58]No June July August. So I've gone in June felt this way end of June I look for him.

[00:15:06]So I ended up now just using my leave days [music] uh the leave days I had and I I separated with Twaweza in July by end of July. A question I want to ask practically even just for the sake of those watching in cases where you're leaving by choice are there concessions you also making that >> [music] >> are there particular benefits that you would have received if the company was the one letting you go?

[00:15:35]That because it's your choice to leave then you're forfeiting those. Not not not really.

[00:15:42]No no no no. Not not really because like the space we work in the benefits you have is health insurance which Yeah may maybe that's what you lose but you see you're not working.

[00:15:53]Um things like pension is no longer held by the employer.

[00:15:57]There's now a pension law.

[00:16:00]That that you can't lose pension.

[00:16:02]Maybe people that are entitled to gratuity Yeah.

[00:16:07]Yeah but I've never worked in a place where there was gratuity.

[00:16:11]So so miracles still happen.

[00:16:16]I I compare this with you remember when I declined the Lenana job on matter of principle.

[00:16:24]I get a call the It happened here again.

[00:16:29]So your life has patterns. Yes.

[00:16:32]Um now free. I'm trying to wonder what to do in this month of July when now I'm weighing options what next.

[00:16:41]So I ended up I received an email a very initial email from one funder who wanted to start a youth program.

[00:16:52]And and then so I was looking at the movement from working on primary school and foundational learning to something and I had shortlisted two things that I thought were interesting me. One was maybe to work on teachers how teachers are trained those kind of things or work on youth.

[00:17:09]Tivet you know technical vocational those kind of things that I don't even understand.

[00:17:14]So I get [music] this email from a funder saying we are establishing a new program in Kenya.

[00:17:21]Are you interested?

[00:17:24]I said yes. So we met.

[00:17:26]Then uh I asked them they they told me it's a job. So we want to employ you.

[00:17:34]So that you come and we give you a job you establish [music] this program for us in Kenya.

[00:17:40]Ah [sighs] I told them no.

[00:17:45]Because the reason why you have come to me is because of the brand you have seen. The John who speaks on TV who is a researcher who is all those things.

[00:17:55]Now if I'm [music] employed in Kenya by a foreign agency then you are killing the same agency that has attracted you to me.

[00:18:05]And Kenya is the only place I can do these things. I can speak what I want you know the media can come interview me. I I say what I want.

[00:18:13]>> [music] >> If I say that in Uganda or another place I'll be deported.

[00:18:18]So so being home is also something special and and maybe you should build this agency rather than kill it. Because as working for a funder a foreign funder I'll never go on TV.

[00:18:32]Yeah I can't go to the ministry and I tell them this needs to change. You you you know because then then I'm breaking diplomatic >> [music] >> ties and and and such kind of things and then endangering your relationship with Kenya.

[00:18:44]>> [snorts] >> So why don't you give me this program money I sit somewhere else and I do the work.

[00:18:52]Like like no.

[00:18:54]This would have to go to the board.

[00:18:58]So why don't you go to the board?

[00:19:02]So so I ended up convincing them to take this back to the board in the Netherlands.

[00:19:08]And if they accepted that I'm given a grant to establish the program but not as a staff member but sitting in a a different in a Kenyan organization then I can balance both. I can do your work and I can maintain that freedom of being at home and the agency. And so after two weeks they came back they told me John we don't know what God you pray the board approved.

[00:19:32]So I was given a lot of money. I was given 747,000 euros.

[00:19:40]That's in zeros those are too many. To go sit where I want and establish a youth program. And then my friend Sarah had already left Twaweza earlier.

[00:19:51]Uh we had established this year a freak.

[00:19:53]So, I just come to Sarah and I tell her Sarah, give me a desk. Mhm.

[00:19:58]Uh funding. Mhm.

[00:20:00]And and so, I move now to TVET [music] to working on TVET. Young people, why are girls not going to do electricals or doing plumbing? Why are boys not going to do catering and [music] and such things? And um enrollment in TVET I've never been to a to a TVET institution.

[00:20:18]I started now just going to like here there's one called Mushawara at vocational training center. [music] Just go sit there, ask them what they do, what issues.

[00:20:29]>> Homo friends.

[00:20:30]So, so I I it I ended up now transitioning to this year a freak.

[00:20:37]>> [music]