The Doomsday Trailer Has a Huge Problem. - Fireside Discussion

[00:00:00]I have unfortunate news for basically everybody ever.

[00:00:03]>> Okay, hit me.

[00:00:04]>> Uh not really everybody ever, just Marvel fans and really cinema fans. Um Yeah, we're cooked.

[00:00:11]Uh well, like we're we're capital C capital O capital O capital K capital E capital D cooked. You know why, Drew?

[00:00:18]>> Why? Hit me. Tell me why.

[00:00:19]>> Cuz Avengers Doomsday looks just as bad as I had suspected, and I really hoped it wouldn't be. You know, I'm going to restrain myself.

[00:00:28]>> Okay.

[00:00:28]>> Because we save this for the Odyssey. I should not judge a movie fully true till we've seen it. I'm going to keep receipts.

[00:00:35]But I watched this trailer, and you know what I felt?

[00:00:38]>> Absolutely nothing.

[00:00:39]>> I felt nothing.

[00:00:40]>> Yeah.

[00:00:41]>> Drew, what did you think of the new Avengers Doomsday trailer?

[00:00:44]>> I think I felt a little more something.

[00:00:47]>> A little more nothing?

[00:00:48]>> Oh, no.

[00:00:49]>> A little less nothing.

[00:00:50]>> A little less nothing, but I felt more nothing than I thought I would as a bigger Marvel fan than you.

[00:00:56]>> Yeah, and like this sounds like I'm just a hater. I'm really not. Like I want Avengers Doomsday to be good. I want the MCU to be good. I quite liked Wonder Man.

[00:01:04]>> Right.

[00:01:04]>> That's kind of I like Shang-Chi.

[00:01:06]>> That's kind of it. Yeah.

[00:01:07]>> I mean, I haven't liked a lot of this stuff recently. I didn't love Fantastic Four.

[00:01:11]>> But you know what you're going to love?

[00:01:12]>> What?

[00:01:13]>> Brand new day.

[00:01:14]>> I might love Brand New Day.

[00:01:15]>> to be awesome, but that's another podcast.

[00:01:17]>> Subscribe to our podcast. Welcome back to So What I'm Saying, a Fireside Film Podcast. Subscribe to it if you're into our vibe here.

[00:01:22]>> It's true.

[00:01:23]>> We're talking about the new Doomsday trailer.

[00:01:25]But yeah, I felt nothing, Drew.

[00:01:27]And like I think that's my concern.

[00:01:29]>> It was a lot of CGI.

[00:01:31]>> Yeah.

[00:01:31]>> Which is kind of to be expected, but it kind of felt like like you know when you're a kid and you have toys, but like they're like kind of hand-me-down and there's kind of just like an amalgamation of random characters.

[00:01:46]>> Yes.

[00:01:47]>> And then you like play with them, but there's no continuity in your head. So like you're just fighting with everybody, and freaking the Hulk is fighting Gandalf, and it doesn't make any sense, but like you're a kid, so you don't give a you don't give a crap.

[00:01:59]>> might be the be the best analogy you've ever given on this podcast.

[00:02:01]>> That's kind of how this trailer feels of like, "Oh, look, it's Mystique fighting Elena. That's cool. Oh, Gambit's fighting Shang-Chi. Okay, fine."

[00:02:10]The one thing that gave me life was Thor.

[00:02:14]>> Yeah. I can get behind that.

[00:02:17]He's probably the strongest part of this, in my opinion, very weak trailer.

[00:02:20]>> I agree.

[00:02:21]>> And like everyone's like, "Oh, it's just a trailer, whatever."

[00:02:23]That's Yeah, you're so right. You know what this is supposed to be heralded as though?

[00:02:28]This is supposed to be the trailer for what Disney wants you to think is going to be the biggest movie of the year.

[00:02:33]>> True.

[00:02:34]>> For what Disney wants you to think is the saving grace of the MCU and the superhero genre as we know it.

[00:02:39]>> Yep.

[00:02:39]>> And so this trailer is not very good in my opinion and that does matter.

[00:02:42]>> It does matter. I think I mean, I we've said it a million times.

[00:02:46]This movie has to be good or else Marvel's cooked.

[00:02:49]>> And you know what I predict?

[00:02:52]Marvel to be cooked.

[00:02:53]Um no, but like I'm going to actually give reasoning.

[00:02:57]I'm not just going to be like, "That trailer was bad." Like, no. I don't care about any of these characters and that's been my issue with the MCU post-Endgame.

[00:03:03]>> Okay.

[00:03:04]>> I still don't care about any of these characters and I've seen their movies.

[00:03:06]>> Mhm.

[00:03:07]>> Like, I don't care.

[00:03:08]I don't care that I see Pedro Pascal on screen. I don't.

[00:03:11]And like I don't know. I I don't I don't know what the difference is. I don't I can't quantify it, but I just feel nothing compared to I remember watching The Avengers I guess it would have been Infinity War trailer in high school >> Yeah.

[00:03:23]>> and being so excited and worried for my characters that I loved.

[00:03:27]>> Right.

[00:03:27]>> I don't care about these characters.

[00:03:29]>> I think that's true. My question to you, and you don't have to have an answer, how do if you are Marvel and you've currently cooked I don't even know. Let's say 20 projects since Endgame that no one really cares about. What do you do?

[00:03:45]>> Cry.

[00:03:47]No, I don't >> You admit defeat. You wave the white flag. No, uh >> I don't know. No, here's what I I think you say like, "Hey, we're going to make one last movie." That's the actual end of everything.

[00:03:57]>> Well, that's kind of what they're doing.

[00:03:58]>> No, but like they're still I mean, yes, they kind of have their saga. Yes, you're kind of right. But like, you just do one more movie and be done. Don't do two.

[00:04:06]>> This is This is saying like, "Hey, we're going to do a few more movies after this."

[00:04:11]That's what they've said with Doomsday like Doomsday's the start of the end or the start of phase zero or whatever the freak we're calling it. I'm like, "No, just do one movie and be done." Like I don't know.

[00:04:22]That's the thing like I don't know what they should have done.

[00:04:24]But we're so far down their path of errors that I don't know if there's any way of saving it.

[00:04:32]>> Yes.

[00:04:35]I do agree.

[00:04:37]Which kind of hurts me to say.

[00:04:39]>> Yeah, I want to hear more of your thoughts as a bigger Marvel fan than me.

[00:04:42]>> Um I mean, look, I I Thor's monologue I thought was awesome. I thought Chris Hemsworth was good.

[00:04:49]He is the only part of the trailer that I was like, "Sick. Awesome." I mean, I thought the action sequence was fine. I felt absolutely nothing seeing Chris Evans return.

[00:04:59]Which is sad, but >> It is sad and also like it's just been diluted by culture. Wait, you keep talking. I have so many more thoughts.

[00:05:07]>> Well, no, I think you're right. I think it's like at this point the the return cameo is so broken and has lost all flavor that I'm like, It it It is I can see it for exactly what it is and it's just a cheap cash grab that Marvel's throwing at us to get our butts in the seats.

[00:05:28]And I mean, it's again kind of how I felt with RDJ.

[00:05:33]Which you still haven't seen We still haven't seen RDJ.

[00:05:35]>> on screen yet.

[00:05:37]>> Which I kind of thought we would, but we didn't. Um I thought the moment where Thor swung at Doom and he stopped him with two fingers was cool. Here's another problem that I have with this movie and again it's not necessarily like it's not really Marvel's fault but it kind of is.

[00:05:53]When it came to Thanos we had probably like five post-credit scenes and Guardians to like kind of build up anticipation.

[00:06:02]>> Yeah, even wasn't he at the end of the first Avengers movie?

[00:06:06]And the second one?

[00:06:07]>> He definitely wasn't the second one.

[00:06:09]>> he was at the end of the first one, too.

[00:06:11]>> Maybe. I don't know he was. I think he is.

[00:06:13]>> Yeah. I think he's in it. I I mean it's been a while. We will do an Avengers rewatch towards November but >> So like there was hype and there was a level of like oh my gosh this guy looks intimidating.

[00:06:26]>> Yes.

[00:06:26]>> For Doom we've had absolutely nothing.

[00:06:29]>> Well, wait. Also to add on really quickly, the Infinity Stones were also sprinkled throughout the MCU prior to Infinity War.

[00:06:36]>> I watched Age of Ultron the other day just kind of on a whim.

[00:06:39]The amount of setup for Infinity War >> There's a lot. It's insane.

[00:06:44]>> There's a lot.

[00:06:46]>> Yeah, I think what what I'm trying to get at with this trailer is like it's going it's already harping a little bit on like this nostalgia wave >> Right.

[00:06:54]>> for the MCU.

[00:06:56]Which it's not like Star Wars. It's not like when the Force Awakens trailer came out and Han and Chewie came out and I was like oh my gosh like these are characters we haven't seen on screen in 30 years which I know I wasn't alive then but like these are the characters, right? It's not like it's not you know you don't have that.

[00:07:11]I mean Endgame was seven years ago.

[00:07:13]>> Yeah.

[00:07:14]>> Like it's not been that long and also it's to the point in Hollywood and culture where we can see when everybody's just trying to nostalgia bait.

[00:07:23]And this is the same thing.

[00:07:24]>> And I will say this, the Russo brothers have said and granted this is in an interview so like take it with a grain of salt but they've said that they didn't bring RDJ back from Just let me finish my sentence.

[00:07:36]>> I know I know I'm letting you talk.

[00:07:38]>> They didn't bring RDJ back for nostalgia and there's like a very specific reason And I'm like, "Okay, that's all well and good. You can say whatever you want in an interview." But at this point in the game, where we are 4 months out from your movie, you have to start proving what you say.

[00:07:53]>> Shawn Levy said that Stranger Things 5 was the best season of Stranger Things.

[00:07:56]>> He did say that.

[00:07:57]>> finale he's ever seen.

[00:07:58]And here we are.

[00:07:59]>> I honestly there's a lot of comparison it seems like to Doomsday and Stranger Things.

[00:08:06]Just like on a vibe level and like what they're saying in interviews.

[00:08:09]>> Shawn Levy's kind of been in both of those universes, too.

[00:08:12]>> That's true. He has.

[00:08:14]Um but at this point if you're Marvel, you know the cultural conversation is it's all nostalgia and like you know the rumors around your movie of what they are. Or at least you should as a studio.

[00:08:29]>> Well >> And then you put out a trailer that doesn't really say anything.

[00:08:36]It's feels like a questionable move.

[00:08:38]>> Now, I will say like I was thinking about I guess it would have been Infinity War the other day.

[00:08:45]Like I think the setup for that movie is really good.

[00:08:48]>> Sure.

[00:08:49]>> they find a decent way to get all these characters in the same spot to do stuff.

[00:08:53]Like how they have to defend Wakanda because Vision's there, right? Or like that was kind of the idea.

[00:08:59]>> Yeah.

[00:09:00]>> Um like that's an okay way to get all these characters to this place, right?

[00:09:05]I'm not sure we're going to have a lot of like great reasons to get all these characters together. Like it already feels a little bit like a gimmick in the original Avengers movies, which is okay.

[00:09:15]Like they are what they are. And I still think they're borderline great, but for this I'm like how are we going to get all these characters together in a way that really feels like it's not just a cash grab and trying to get all your favorite characters on screen again?

[00:09:28]>> I think they're going to say "Oh my gosh, Doom is the most powerful person ever. He's going to kill us all."

[00:09:34]>> We have to take him down. need >> And I mean they kind of said that in the trailer of like, we all have to be friends and not fight each other.

[00:09:41]Which I'm like I mean, I have a whole so many issues like, "A, why are we fighting each other?" B, like, maybe there's comic reasons that I haven't read.

[00:09:49]And maybe it'll all be explained in the movie and make perfect sense, but I'm like None of these characters have beef with each other because they've never met each other.

[00:09:58]So, I'm like It It feels very forced. This whole movie feels forced.

[00:10:04]>> Yeah.

[00:10:05]>> From like every angle.

[00:10:06]>> I completely agree. I mean I also think about I have I mean, I don't even know where to start with this movie, honestly. Like I I want to like this movie and I'm going to go in and I'm going to clear out my expectations.

[00:10:19]>> But with this movie specifically like there's been stuff that's been said and I just don't think that it's actually going to happen. Like, for example, the Russo's said at one point, "We are going to emphasize practical like stuff, cinematography, effects, everything."

[00:10:36]I saw not that much of that in this trailer.

[00:10:40]Which maybe they're like, "Oh, we'll just put all the best CGI shots in the movie." But like that it just like we didn't really see that in the trailer.

[00:10:48]Um >> I will say I think this movie looks better than anything post Endgame.

[00:10:53]>> I mean, that might be true, but >> But that's That's not a hype >> Now I have the question of like, well, is Disney like using AI now? Like I don't know.

[00:11:01]I I I doubt that's in this movie, but it could be. And if you hear that, it would really sour the movie. I'm not saying that that's what's happening, but like that's a concern for me now.

[00:11:11]And then like the last thing too is just like I I I have a feeling this movie's we're going to leave the theater and feel like, "Man, this kind of had no purpose." Like we went and watched an Avengers movie and this is maybe the most meaningless one.

[00:11:24]>> Yeah.

[00:11:25]>> So.

[00:11:26]I don't know.

[00:11:27]I want the best for this movie, but this trailer seems to be confirming the worst for me.

[00:11:33]>> Yeah, I agree. Again, I mean it just kind of feels pointless and it's kind of still feels like they don't know what they're doing.

[00:11:40]>> Yeah, I mean the the rumor is right now Now, this is a rumor unconfirmed by actual reporters, but it's also a rumor.

[00:11:48]Is that this movie is a mess in the edit?

[00:11:52]>> The amount of alleged rewrites and reshoots it have been large. And like >> Again, allegations, but also if that is the case, I'm sure Disney wants to keep that part of it airtight.

[00:12:06]>> Right.

[00:12:06]>> Like if this movie is a mess in the edit, that's a really bad sign.

[00:12:10]I mean, I already kind of feel like they didn't have a huge plan going into it.

[00:12:13]And odds are they didn't have a huge plan going into it and now they're still trying to find the movie.

[00:12:21]>> Yep.

[00:12:24]It's not looking great.

[00:12:25]>> Okay, let's let's shift to a positive >> Okay.

[00:12:28]>> part of the conversation. I'm sorry we've been all storm cloud, but we just call our shot here, I guess.

[00:12:33]Uh Drew, what does this movie have to do?

[00:12:36]Not even to save itself, but like just to be good.

[00:12:39]>> Have a compelling story. I mean, I I think at baseline you have to make us care about these characters.

[00:12:46]>> Yeah.

[00:12:46]>> And that's not going to be really easy to do. I mean, I think we have we care about Falcon to some degree. I guess not Falcon anymore, Captain America, whatever.

[00:12:56]We care about Chris Evans.

[00:12:58]>> Like Bucky.

[00:12:59]>> Maybe we care about Bucky, we care about Thor.

[00:13:01]But I mean, yeah, we have to care about Shang-Chi, we have to care about Gambit, we have to care about Yelena, we have to care about M'Baku.

[00:13:11]And I if you went out in the street on any one any random day and said, "Do you know who M'Baku is?"

[00:13:18]>> Actually, M'Baku might be a bad example.

[00:13:20]A lot of people saw Black Panther.

[00:13:21]>> think a lot of people actually like M'Baku.

[00:13:23]>> Who's M'Baku? You're like, "Oh, Black Panther."

[00:13:24]>> I like M'Baku.

[00:13:26]>> But like, yeah. But if you're like, who is >> Gambit.

[00:13:29]>> Gambit or Yelena, they're probably not going to know.

[00:13:31]>> These are all glorified side characters played by famous actors in a cameo performances. Not all of them, but like Gambit was >> Gambit definitely was.

[00:13:38]>> And now he's a character >> And every everybody loved him, so now we chuck him in Avengers.

[00:13:42]>> Just like I don't know, man. It feels gimmicky.

[00:13:46]But okay, this movie 216, compelling story.

[00:13:49]>> Make us care about the characters and have a cliffhanger that is gets people talking for at least a year.

[00:13:56]>> I agree.

[00:13:58]I think >> Infinity War did it.

[00:14:00]>> Yeah.

[00:14:01]>> And Doomsday half has to repeat the formula.

[00:14:03]>> I'm going to add one thing.

[00:14:04]>> Okay.

[00:14:05]>> I think they got they they have to figure out Dr. Doom.

[00:14:08]>> I mean, yeah, you There has to be a compelling reason why it's already Jack.

[00:14:11]>> And like justify him.

[00:14:12]>> Yeah.

[00:14:13]>> And I mean, I will say Infinity War did a great job of making Thanos not a compelling villain, but like >> understandable enough.

[00:14:21]>> villain to where you're like, he is worthy of his screen time.

[00:14:24]And Josh Brolin gives a great performance on it. Like, it's good.

[00:14:28]I think they can do it with Dr. Doom and Doomsday.

[00:14:31]Will they?

[00:14:33]I don't know.

[00:14:34]I don't know.

[00:14:35]>> Yeah.

[00:14:35]>> I have no idea.

[00:14:37]So.

[00:14:38]Uh >> It's they're in a pickle.

[00:14:41]>> If you had to predict the Rotten Tomatoes score right now.

[00:14:44]>> Ooh, okay.

[00:14:45]>> This is like a we've never really done this before, but like what would you say it is?

[00:14:48]>> I also don't really go on Rotten Tomatoes.

[00:14:50]>> I know.

[00:14:51]>> Uh >> Maybe IMDb for you.

[00:14:52]>> Okay.

[00:14:54]I'm going to say on IMDb a 6.8.

[00:14:59]>> You know what? I think I will rock with if cuz I'm a little bit more on like the Rotten Tomatoes, how do people generally feel about this movie?

[00:15:06]I'd say this movie might end up in like the 68%.

[00:15:09]>> Okay.

[00:15:10]>> Yeah.

[00:15:11]So, we'll see how that ages.

[00:15:14]>> Like, if you are a Marvel stan and you're here, let us know why you're excited, why you think this movie will be good. We will dialogue in the comments, but we were just not super impressed.

[00:15:26]>> Yes. Uh, by the way, Spider-Man Brand New Day is coming out this month. True.

[00:15:31]Um, we're doing like a Spider-Man this kind of shifting to what we're doing next, but we're doing a Spider-Man marathon live action. If you have a Spider-Man hot take or anything Spider-Man related, comment it below.

[00:15:41]We're going to do a Spider-Man hot takes episode where we talk about all y'alls hot takes. And yeah, we're going to talk about Brand New Day in a few weeks, which I am excited for that movie.

[00:15:49]>> Yep. I am pretty excited for our Spider-Man marathon.

[00:15:52]>> I am, too.

[00:15:53]>> Yep.

[00:15:53]>> It's going to be fun time. Um, yeah, anything else you want to say on Doomsday?

[00:15:57]While we get out of here.

[00:15:59]>> I hope it's good, but it's probably not going to be.

[00:16:01]>> Yep. I'm kind of in the same boat. We just reviewed the Odyssey, too.

[00:16:04]>> True. Go watch that.

[00:16:06]>> you watch the Odyssey, you can watch our review. But yeah, thank you guys for being here. Take a break.

[00:16:10]>> And enjoy a film.

[00:16:11]>> Maybe not Doomsday, though.