Mansur VS Ex-Jew: The Juicy Story That Failed! Mansur | Speakers Corner

[00:00:00]one of the leading one. Have you ever heard of Abraham Maslo or humanistic psychology?

[00:00:08]>> I don't think you're very versed in psychology. If you if you ever heard of those people, those are prominent people.

[00:00:15]>> The psychologists believe in us all.

[00:00:18]>> The word psycho comes psychologist as we understand who they are.

[00:00:22]>> The word psycho actually comes >> not not psycho. The word psycho is not what I'm after. psychologist which is a profession recognized by a professional body do they believe in us all because you're going for support through a psychologist if do they believe in yourself >> psychology the word do you know what etmology means >> no no I'm not interested in a particular word what it signifies in its linguistic ethmological origin psychologists are recognized professional people under a professional regulatory body that profession Do they recognize and accept something as you're saying as a soul?

[00:01:06]>> I'm really You've got me really confused now.

[00:01:09]>> They don't.

[00:01:09]>> The word psychology is the study >> or the knowledge of the soul. Literally, that's what it means.

[00:01:15]>> So, they believe in a soul. So if I were to go to a psychologist now, a professional psychologist or a psychology, you know, organizations, they would say, "Yeah, we believe in the existence of a soul."

[00:01:28]>> Technically, a psychologist who's a secular psychologist who has no understanding, >> you want to talk about secular and religious.

[00:01:36]>> Would you let me finish?

[00:01:37]>> Yeah.

[00:01:38]theology. If they have no understanding of God, then technically they are practicing something that they do not believe in.

[00:01:47]>> That's not what I was asking. As a profession, psychology >> as a profession >> as a profession do they recognize as a profession >> regulated >> who's >> by this regulatory body psychologists whether in the states or in UK they have regulatory bodies they're professional psychologists. Do they recognize in the existence of a soul and they say, "Yep, we we all agree as a professional organization soul exists."

[00:02:13]>> Well, frankly, I don't really care what they >> That's not what I asked you. The answer is to my question. Yes. They recognize something called the soul >> or they don't.

[00:02:24]>> Imagine Imagine if Mansour is >> You can't speak for everyone.

[00:02:27]>> I'm not talking about everyone individually, >> but imagine if Mansour is a patient and he's asking you this question. What would you say? Imagine if Masour is a patient, >> one one of your patients.

[00:02:37]>> Okay. And he's asking what?

[00:02:39]>> So what is your question again?

[00:02:41]>> Do psychologists as professionals.

[00:02:46]>> Do they recognize professionally in their professional capacity in the existence of the soul?

[00:02:52]>> Okay. Now I will answer it. Don't interrupt me.

[00:02:55]>> The answer to that is this.

[00:02:57]I can't say what all Muslims believe because there are many different Muslims. Okay?

[00:03:06]>> And I can't speak about what Christians believe because there are many different Christians.

[00:03:11]>> Okay? And I can't speak about what professional psychologists believe because there's many psychologists. But a secular psychologist that is one who does denies that there's any existence beyond this planet. In other words, they have a secular materialistic viewpoint or atheistic.

[00:03:34]No, they don't believe in a soul.

[00:03:38]>> But there are professional psychologists because I'm friends with them. We refer to one another. They refer to me. I refer to them. And those people um they do believe in the soul. But the majority of psychologists that I'm aware of don't.

[00:03:57]>> Okay.

[00:03:57]>> But you know, >> so I understood your >> Oh, but one other thing. Okay.

[00:04:02]>> That doesn't mean that they can't give good therapy. They're limited because there's so perspective they don't have, >> but they can still do a fairly decent job. And by the way, I was trained secularly. my bachelor's degree in psych was in psychology from a state college and then my graduate degree was in biblical counseling and I got a lot out of that and I actually was studying one of my professors is considered one of the leading uh professors in the in the field um uh internationally and has published numerous books which I read a number of them and I got to meet him personally. I was very fortunate. Not that he was my only good professor, but he was awfully good and a humble man at the same time. So that's the answer to your question. Okay. So I was asking for individual practitioners who can believe in tuna as a god and based on that they give psychotherapy. That's what was my question. I asked you as a professional organization as a professional body. Say for example the GMC, General Medical Council, a professional body that regulates doctors.

[00:05:15]>> Yeah.

[00:05:16]>> Yeah. In in in UK, do they as a professional body recognize something called the soul for example? You will find that yeah we recognize as a soul and then we expect our practitioners to deal with the disease of the soul and so on. That is the nature of my question as a professional body professional organization psychologist not individual practitioners. So what you answer is I know about certain individual practitioners who may recognize the soul and there are other individual practitioners who are secular of course in that case they don't believe in the soul that is all I'm asking so when you talked about like you you know soul you want to you know cure the soul and the soul you cannot then ask for psychologist help as a professional body because as far as I know correct me if I'm wrong as far as I know across the globe psychology as a Professional psychologists regulated by professional bodies. They don't believe in something called the soul. They talk about the mind, the brain and the mind. They talk about consciousness. They could talk about personalities. They talk about the disease of the mind and the personalities. We call them personality disorders for example. So you can see the link between psychology, psychiatry and physiology all of that. So I simply want to ask you if you're going to practice um you know from the biblical perspective how much does the Bible know about the soul?

[00:06:38]>> Probably more than you know I know and every single psychologist here on earth.

[00:06:43]>> Okay. Does the Bible know anything about God?

[00:06:50]>> That's a rhetorical question.

[00:06:52]>> No it's not. It's not. I'm to give you an example. You have been trained under biblical uh what's the domain do you said the discipline biblical therapy or something or biblical counseling >> I have also been trained in uh secular psychology >> yeah when it comes to the bible your training is counseling from the biblical >> perspective >> perspective good from the biblical perspective what does the Bible say said in the New Testament of the Christians because you said you're a Christian >> I didn't say that >> you said you're not a Roman Catholic >> I didn't say I said I wasn't a Roman Roman Catholic.

[00:07:25]>> Okay. Are you a practicing biblical believer in the Bible >> and call yourself?

[00:07:32]>> I practice the biblical perspective.

[00:07:35]>> Right. Are you a Christian or a Jew?

[00:07:38]>> Well, I was born Jewish and I was raised Jewish. So, I'm technically I'm Jewish.

[00:07:42]>> Okay.

[00:07:43]>> But I found Jesus. He came to me and so um I'm his friend. Okay. Okay?

[00:07:49]>> Because he said in John 15:13, he said, >> "Greater love has no one than this, that one lays down his life for his friend."

[00:07:59]So Jesus, he laid down his life the next day after he said that. And he laid down his life for me cuz it says that um he became sin. Yeah.

[00:08:14]He didn't just take on our sins, but he became sin for us who knew no sin that we might become the righteousness of God in him. And because of that, I'm his friend.

[00:08:25]>> Okay.

[00:08:26]>> And that's cool.

[00:08:26]>> It's interesting.

[00:08:29]And I experienced that back in 1972. My girlfriend and I did when we were riding our bicycles from California up to uh Oregon uh to get away from the craziness of the big city like London. only was down in the Bay Area and um we experienced meeting Jesus.

[00:08:50]>> Okay. Who is Jesus in relation to God?

[00:08:54]>> Jesus. That's a good question. And if you want to really I'll give you the references and then I'll give you my answer. But because it's kind of an easy way to remember because Psalms chapter 1. It talks about the deity. The deity that means the godness of Jesus in John 1.

[00:09:13]the beginning of John 1, also in Colossians 1 around verses 15 to 18 somewhere around there. And also in Hebrews 1, it's all in the first chapter. John 1, Colossians 1, Hebrews 1. And in Hebrews, it says that he is the express image of the father. He's the express image. And in Philippians 2, it says that he was equal with God. It says he was equal with God. It says that um let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus that being in the form of God he did not consider it robbery to be equal with God but made himself of no reputation coming in the form of a servant and in the appearance of a man. And being found in that appearance he humbled himself became obedient to death even the death of the cross. So God loves us so much that he wasn't satisfied that we were all flake flaking off. We were all being jerks. Okay? And when people said, "I deserve better treatment. I deserve No, but we deserve because the one one thing that separates us from God completely is rebellion."

[00:10:31]>> Okay, that's you. So >> no, that's not me.

[00:10:33]>> No, no, but you say us means us.

[00:10:36]>> All of us.

[00:10:36]>> So we're talking about Jesus in relation to God. And you interestingly make some >> He's the son.

[00:10:41]>> Yeah, he's the son. So you So you have >> which makes him die.

[00:10:45]>> Okay. So you have >> So I have eight kids and three of them are sons and they I'm a human and guess what? They're humans too.

[00:10:52]>> How many humans in your family?

[00:10:54]>> Huh?

[00:10:55]>> How many humans in your family?

[00:10:56]>> Uh well there's 10 of us. 10 of them.

[00:10:58]>> I have eight kids.

[00:10:59]>> So when you have God and son of God, how many gods do they have in that family?

[00:11:03]>> One.

[00:11:05]>> I know. One second. One sec. One second.

[00:11:08]Once again, >> you gave a beautiful example about the family. You have sons and guess what?

[00:11:12]They're humans too. And then I asked you how many humans. You didn't say one human. You quite correctly said 10 or so humans because you know how to count.

[00:11:21]One more. One more. One moment. One.

[00:11:23]>> Okay.

[00:11:23]>> Of course you counted them correctly.

[00:11:26]You as a human, your son was a human.

[00:11:28]And that's not one human. Two human. You and your son is two humans even though you share the same humanity. But when it comes to Jesus and God, Jesus is the son of God and the father is the father of Jesus. When it comes to counting them, how many gods are there? Just like how many humans are there, you somehow stop, you know, not stop, you somehow stop counting and you say that's one god. Um, do you mind explaining?

[00:11:58]>> You change the category.

[00:12:00]>> I I I got that. Let me explain. Let me explain.

[00:12:02]>> That's a good question. By the way, what what's your first name?

[00:12:05]>> Mansour. And what's yours?

[00:12:06]>> Mansur. Rick.

[00:12:07]>> Rick.

[00:12:09]>> Speaking to Yeah. Go ahead.

[00:12:10]>> Um, >> the most sacred verse in the Old Testament according to any Jew that knows anything, >> and there's a few that don't, but any Jew that knows anything, it's called Schma. Maybe you've heard of it. It's Deuteronomy 6:4.

[00:12:28]Um, Adonai Adonai. It doesn't say Adonai in the text, by the way.

[00:12:34]>> No, I I'm going to say it in English now.

[00:12:36]>> No, it doesn't say Adonai in the text.

[00:12:39]>> Does not.

[00:12:40]>> It does not. I know the but it doesn't say Adonai.

[00:12:42]>> Well, then you've got a lot of Jews that are going to argue with you. But any >> No, no, no. Excuse me. Sorry, Rick.

[00:12:47]>> When you're going to quote the text Deuteronomy, >> can I can I just finish?

[00:12:51]>> You can finish, but I I I >> But you >> Am I wrong in that correction?

[00:12:56]>> Am I wrong in the correction?

[00:12:57]>> You base your amicular point.

[00:12:59]>> Okay.

[00:12:59]>> Am I right or am I wrong?

[00:13:01]>> Uh We can Google.

[00:13:03]>> Okay. So the text says Adonai and if we say show you otherwise >> that's so you you said every Jew would know this apart from some individuals.

[00:13:12]>> Yeah.

[00:13:13]>> So if I show you the actual text doesn't say Adonai then I would say you are one of those that doesn't know as a Jew what they should have known.

[00:13:20]>> Okay.

[00:13:20]>> But we just checked >> Deuteronomy. Okay. Let's check this because I made a question.

[00:13:23]>> So you you're saying it's not God.

[00:13:25]>> No no no. We just Let's go to the reference.

[00:13:28]>> References.

[00:13:28]>> Yeah.

[00:13:30]>> 64. Is this the uh just to double check?

[00:13:33]>> All right, we're getting really technical.

[00:13:34]>> No, no, no, no. Very important. We have to be academically honest.

[00:13:39]>> Is it about our God?

[00:13:41]>> No, we cannot we cannot move on without checking this point that you just mentioned.

[00:13:45]>> All right. Well, you check while I No, no, no, no, no. I'm not here. Here.

[00:13:48]Look, here. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it. Got it.

[00:13:51]>> I don't have my glasses on.

[00:13:52]>> I can show you, you know, zoomed in if you prefer. Okay.

[00:13:56]>> Okay. What does it say?

[00:13:59]>> Do you want to read the Hebrew?

[00:14:01]Do you want to shall I make it even bigger?

[00:14:04]>> Shama Israel.

[00:14:07]What's the next word? Does it say Adonai?

[00:14:09]>> You say it.

[00:14:11]>> No, no. I'm not going to say it. Does it say Adonai? Just tell me.

[00:14:14]>> I can't I can't see it.

[00:14:15]>> No, I know you cannot say it, but does it say Adonai?

[00:14:18]>> No, he can't see it.

[00:14:19]>> Can you not see it? This word. Does it say Adonai?

[00:14:22]>> Says Yahweh, >> right? So, it doesn't say Adonai. Adonai is just someone's gloss over the divine name which they consider to be very sacred not to pronounce it. So you were wrong to say carry on. That wasn't the point anyway.

[00:14:36]>> That's your thing there.

[00:14:37]>> No, no, no, no. This is this is what I learned.

[00:14:40]>> I just learned something that you >> said every Jew should know this. And yet >> Well, what you're telling me is every Jew that I've ever known, >> including yourself.

[00:14:52]>> Yes.

[00:14:53]>> And you're right. know that you >> No, no. You you you I guess I guess let's move from there. So basically incorrect.

[00:14:59]>> Carry on. This isn't even >> It's not a point.

[00:15:02]>> Okay, carry on.

[00:15:03]>> The word in.

[00:15:05]>> Okay. Here, O Israel, the Lord our God is one Lord.

[00:15:08]>> Okay.

[00:15:09]>> Okay. One.

[00:15:10]>> He's one.

[00:15:13]That's the word for one. You can look that one up, too. One. Okay. Now, there are Jews and there are Muslims.

[00:15:21]>> I can't hear you. Sorry. that will claim that, okay, so Christianity is wrong because there's only one God and yet Jesus is God and the fa the father is God. So Christianity must be wrong. But there's a problem.

[00:15:35]>> That's not what we're discussing.

[00:15:36]>> Excuse me. We were discussing that.

[00:15:38]>> You were discussing God and the son. Why are there one God, not two?

[00:15:41]>> We we talk about that. Yeah. Let's go back to the main getting to that.

[00:15:44]Listen, carry on. So the word in the Hebrew one, the same Hebrew word for one is also used in Genesis. Okay. And the actual etmology or the word study of one is united. It doesn't mean solitary. It means united. And Jesus talks about that himself quite a bit about the unity.

[00:16:09]Okay? So it's united. And in Genesis 2 24, maybe some some of you have heard that it says, "A man should leave his father and his I'm not quoting every word exact, but pretty close. Every man shall leave his father and his mother and shall cleave to or be joined to his wife, and the two will be one flesh."

[00:16:32]Are you guys married?

[00:16:34]I kind of got that feeling. Okay. I thought they could be boyfriend, girlfriend. And I looked at them. I've been married 51 years. You guys look like you really together. Okay. So stay together. Love one another. That's also in the New Testament.

[00:16:50]>> All right. So you guys are one according to the Bible.

[00:16:57]>> What will happen if they divor?

[00:16:59]>> Just a minute.

[00:17:01]>> I'll answer any question, but let's deal with one. So they are one just as God is one. But wait a minute. If God is one, how could these two be one? Because there's two of them, but they're one.

[00:17:15]And so, it's a comparison. It's called a metaphor. The Bible has a lot of figurative language. So, when it says, "Here, O Israel, the Lord our God is one.

[00:17:26]It's united in the same."

[00:17:29]>> We don't speak the same language. We don't come from the same country. We don't we don't have the same taste. We are totally different.

[00:17:35]>> There you go.

[00:17:36]>> No, we are totally different. But what what you claim is three in one. All of them are God have the same will the same decision. She will not come here at 10 at two. They are totally different. So I >> choose another couple.

[00:17:49]>> For your one emotion. Yes.

[00:17:53]>> No. She would agree with me.

[00:17:55]>> Well, you know what God would say to you? And I'm just ab living now. God would say to you guys, la viva laorance, long live the difference. I was just in Paris. I'm speaking Caribbean. I had to pick up.

[00:18:09]>> Okay. All right. Let's find out.

[00:18:12]>> Uh ah Salem Morgan. Anybody here?

[00:18:15]>> Let's come back to your explanation.

[00:18:17]>> So therefore the oneness can include more than so this you got the father the son and the holy spirit are one but they're three distinct just as this lovely couple. Especially >> lovely of course.

[00:18:33]>> Well especially her but I'm a guy. What can I say?

[00:18:36]>> They are one what? Sorry.

[00:18:37]>> But you know what?

[00:18:39]>> She makes you more.

[00:18:40]>> Okay. Could you explain? Could you explain? They They are one >> with you.

[00:18:44]>> I know. I see.

[00:18:46]>> One second.

[00:18:46]>> They are one what?

[00:18:48]>> They're one what?

[00:18:48]>> Yeah. When you say they're one one what?

[00:18:50]>> They're one what? Well, they're humans.

[00:18:52]>> No. One what?

[00:18:53]>> They're married.

[00:18:54]>> No. One what?

[00:18:56]>> What's the unit? One >> one what? What category?

[00:18:59]>> Me answer. One in spirit.

[00:19:02]>> No. One what?

[00:19:03]>> No.

[00:19:05]Go ahead.

[00:19:06]>> I don't know. Artvarks.

[00:19:08]>> What are you getting now?

[00:19:09]>> You said earlier. Shall I remind you?

[00:19:11]You said one couple.

[00:19:12]>> One.

[00:19:12]>> Two passport.

[00:19:13]>> Two passport.

[00:19:14]>> Brother.

[00:19:15]>> You said one couple. You said it already.

[00:19:19]>> You said one.

[00:19:20]>> That's right.

[00:19:21]>> Right. One couple.

[00:19:22]>> One couple. Okay.

[00:19:23]>> We are here. One group. Not two groups.

[00:19:27]One group.

[00:19:28]>> Yeah. So, you are saying the father and the son. When I asked you the relationship between Jesus and the father, you said there are one God.

[00:19:36]That's what you're trying to say. And you're saying one can include many, right? What I want to know from Jesus's own mouth, who is the only true God?

[00:19:48]Because out of all the things that you pick, you make this God, you make that God according to Jesus himself, who is the only true God?

[00:19:56]>> Okay, good question.

[00:19:59]>> You expect a good answer.

[00:20:02]Okay, I'm going to refer you to John chapter 14 and 17.

[00:20:06]>> In John 17, Jesus in his great prayer about unity among his believers.

[00:20:12]>> Yeah.

[00:20:13]>> So unity was actually the most common theme of the Bible is unity. Okay. I I'm not going to try to prove that right now. That takes a little time.

[00:20:22]in it he says he defined um he defined eternal life which isn't relevant to all of us even the atheist friend that I met that I got we exchange emails and we're going to be corresponding because I love talking to people that disagree with me okay and uh like you so um he said this is life eternal Jesus speaking that they might No, no, no.

[00:20:53]Nosis in the Greek starting with a G that they might know you the only true God and Jesus Christ whom you have sent.

[00:21:05]Okay? So, he's the sending out of the of God. He's also the expression of God according to Hebrews.

[00:21:13]He's he's um he is with God. Um John 14 um Philillip this is the night before he was crucified and became sin for us who knew no sin that we might be the righteousness of God in him. That's a pretty good trade we got. And he said he was talking about the father and and Philillip one of his followers said well Jesus show us the father.

[00:21:45]And the answer that Jesus gave him was profound. He said, "Have I been with you so long and you don't know me?" That was the father speaking from Christ. Have I not been with you so long and you don't know me? And then for us dummies, he added another thought and he said, >> "When you know me, you know the father.

[00:22:12]>> I am the father.

[00:22:14]We are one.

[00:22:16]>> That's what it said.

[00:22:18]>> So that's that's the unity.

[00:22:20]>> So you've explained very well who Jesus is and who the true God is. Clearly from your answer, Jesus is not the only true God.

[00:22:28]>> No.

[00:22:29]>> No. Jesus himself says, "Oh father." Yeah. This is eternal life that they may know you. And you you referring to >> the father.

[00:22:41]>> The father, >> right? So according to Jesus himself because we are talking about the relationship between God and Jesus. Now Jesus answers the question the only true God is not Jesus. The only true God is who Jesus calls the father. And this father is the one who has done the action of sending Christ like a messenger is sent. So now we realize Jesus is not the only true God according to himself. The only true God is the father. You're wrong.

[00:23:11]>> How am I wrong?

[00:23:12]>> Okay. In Revelation, >> um, an angel came to John the Apostle.

[00:23:20]>> Okay.

[00:23:21]>> He was the writer. And when the angel come, John started to bow down to him.

[00:23:28]The Greek word there is proaneo.

[00:23:31]He started to bow down to him. And what did what did the angel say? He said, "Don't bow down to me. only worship God or prosecu the Greek word.

[00:23:44]>> But in Hebrews, give me a moment to think for a minute.

[00:23:51]>> It said, I believe it's in Hebrews 1, might be verse 6. I can't remember exactly. It says, I'm an old guy. I forget things but it says that all the angels proc same Greek word or worshiped um worship Jesus.

[00:24:14]Now the problem is this. We know that we only can worship God. Otherwise, it's idolatry. And so if if you can only worship God, which Revelation says, only worship God. But the angels worship Jesus, >> we got a problem here. We've got two gods. Unless Jesus himself is the only true God >> related intrinsically to the to the father.

[00:24:44]>> No. What you establishing is >> so it the analogy between a man and a woman >> might break down a little bit there.

[00:24:52]>> Then don't use it.

[00:24:53]>> No.

[00:24:54]>> If it's going to break down, don't use it.

[00:24:55]>> Don't use any analogy. That's going to fail the trinity.

[00:24:58]>> No, that's not true. No, except for one problem.

[00:25:03]It's the same word. the unity between a man and a woman. It shows us that that unity could be not just solitary, but it could be united. There is a force between these two people.

[00:25:19]And you ask, what if they're divorced?

[00:25:21]That that's why God, it says in Malachi that God hates divorce. What God puts together, >> if God wanted in that verse to actually say that he's really one, that's what you are trying to say. That's unity one.

[00:25:34]>> Yeah.

[00:25:35]>> How could have he made it more clear?

[00:25:37]>> Really your logic is like your logic is escaping me. So if he God wanted to actually say that he's really one like Muslims believe, we Muslims believe that we've literally one. No unity, no games, no three in one, no whatever. So if he wanted to say it, how could have he said it in other words really? Turn to me.

[00:25:54]>> Is there another word for one?

[00:25:56]>> Yeah. Yeah. Really? How can he can say it? Let's say imagine that I'm right.

[00:25:59]He's right. We are right. Not any of us cuz she's Christian. So like if the three of us we want to defend sorry if we want him to say it in better way how could have he said it there's no other way to say it other than a what could have he said it a literally bro like how he should have said it like what how he can say better word than a >> he said it let me remind you in Isaiah this is what Isaiah is speaking what God told him I am God not we I am God before me >> there There's none other.

[00:26:33]>> Let me finish.

[00:26:34]>> I know >> I alone am God and there is none else.

[00:26:38]So the word I is different from the word we and us. So if you have someone within the collection or collective unity as you trying to portray God as someone within this unity saying I alone am God before me there was no God form after me there would be no God form. I alone am God and there is none else. That is the clarity of the verse. Do you know who this eye is?

[00:27:02]Yes.

[00:27:02]>> Who is it?

[00:27:03]>> Okay, let's go to the same Isaiah that you quoted from.

[00:27:09]>> Okay.

[00:27:10]>> Who wants to step back? This is >> No, no, this one.

[00:27:13]>> That's okay. That's okay. Yeah.

[00:27:15]>> Chapter 9 verse 6.

[00:27:17]>> Mhm.

[00:27:18]>> Very well-known prophecy about Christ.

[00:27:20]It says, "Unto us a child is born. Unto us a son is given, a son, right?

[00:27:28]and his name shall be called wonderful counselor. By the way, that's where my authority really comes from is from the wonderful counselor which is Jesus.

[00:27:38]Wonderful counselor, the mighty God. That's an apositive. Are you familiar with a positive?

[00:27:47]>> Okay. A positive in in grammar.

[00:27:50]>> I understand the text.

[00:27:51]>> Okay.

[00:27:52]>> It's not the first time I've heard it.

[00:27:53]>> Okay. That was an apositive.

[00:27:54]>> But my question is who's the eye? Who's the I speaking?

[00:27:58]>> That I am God and none else.

[00:28:01]>> Unto us is born a son. Okay? It's referring to a son, the son of God.

[00:28:09]>> Okay? And he shall be called wonderful.

[00:28:11]So Jesus is going to be is going to be called wonderful. This was written se or 700 years before Christ, I believe.

[00:28:20]Yeah. Wonderful.

[00:28:24]C um counselor, the mighty God, the prince of peace.

[00:28:30]>> I can't remember what else.

[00:28:31]>> Everlasting father.

[00:28:33]>> Everlasting father. Yes. He will be called the everlasting father. Who?

[00:28:37]Jesus. Because there's such a unity there.

[00:28:41]>> My question is who is the I saying I alone am God and there's none else. You need to identify the I from the us.

[00:28:48]>> That would be both God and Jesus.

[00:28:51]>> I from the us. I from the we chose the I within the pantheon or the group or the collective which you call God.

[00:29:01]>> Okay, let me let me let me help you with that with John one.

[00:29:04]>> Oh, that's >> in the beginning.

[00:29:06]>> Okay, that's in Genesis 1 >> was the word and the word was with God and the word was divine.

[00:29:12]>> Okay, and the word we know later on is Jesus because in verse 14 it says >> that doesn't answer my question. Who's the eye within the we?

[00:29:20]It's a very simple question and the answer is the I is the one who sends the Messiah who you believe to be Jesus. So the I alone according to look according to God himself. He says I alone am God is none else. Okay.

[00:29:34]>> And this let me can I finish my 10 to speak.

[00:29:36]>> This I who says I am the only God who I will send my prophet my messengers my messiah and he sends the messiah Jesus Christ. This Jesus Christ the Messiah says the only true God is you.

[00:29:51]So now the God is saying I am God. The Messiah is saying you are God. So now we have answers from both parties that Jesus is not the only true God. So the Christians and the messianic Jews like yourself have really done something heinous in the sight of God by going against God and going against Jesus going both. When Jesus Christ himself says you are the only true God, if somebody says you're the only true God, can anyone else be the only true God? The answer is no. The linguistic exclusion is such that that excludes anyone else from being true God. We're not talking about gods. According to the Bible, there are many gods. That's why I ask you, does the Bible know about God?

[00:30:34]Because the Bible says you are Elohim, sons of the most high or you will die like men. Psalms 82 verse 1-7.

[00:30:45]So I know what the Bible says about God.

[00:30:48]The Bible is very confused about who God is. But the Quran which we Muslims are presenting to you says, "Oh people of the book, >> come let us reason together that we do not worship anyone but one true God and we do not make our lords and our priests, you know, something besides God to be taken care of." What is important for you to return back to the one and only true God who Jesus believed to be not himself that sent Christ here on earth. The same God that Moses and Abraham, David, Jacob, Solomon, all of them talked about. He is the God who is self-sufficient.

[00:31:32]>> If I No, no. I want to ask you a question on this.

[00:31:34]>> No, wait, wait, wait.

[00:31:34]>> No, hang on. I'll let you speak. So, I want to ask you a question. I'm not going to take you any further.

[00:31:38]>> Yeah, cuz you >> Do you agree? Do you agree? I didn't say when you're speaking you were giving a sermon and your experiences. I went through listening to your experience. I didn't I I didn't stop you there.

[00:31:48]>> Normally I do stop people from giving their experiences, but I let you speak.

[00:31:51]>> So my question to you is do you agree God any to be called God truly has to be self-sufficient, independent, and absolute?

[00:32:04]>> Sounds fair enough. I guess in a way independent uh I wouldn't call it no So God has to depend on someone else for him to be God.

[00:32:13]>> No.

[00:32:13]>> So God is either dependent or independent.

[00:32:16]>> No.

[00:32:17]>> Dependent or not.

[00:32:18]>> There's another alternative.

[00:32:20]>> What is that?

[00:32:21]>> Okay.

[00:32:23]>> Independent is cut off.

[00:32:25]>> Okay.

[00:32:26]>> Take this couple here.

[00:32:28]>> I've got a little How long have you been married?

[00:32:30]>> Three years.

[00:32:31]>> Three years. Okay.

[00:32:32]>> Two.

[00:32:32]>> Two.

[00:32:34]>> I've got a little more.

[00:32:34]>> One. Two.

[00:32:35]>> Two.

[00:32:36]>> Okay. There's a difference between THERE'S A DIFFERENCE BETWEEN one and two. No, not four and two. Two. Two.

[00:32:42]>> One and two.

[00:32:42]>> I've been married 51 years. I know something about marriage.

[00:32:46]>> Okay. So, if you guys are independent, there's going to be problems. But if you're going to be dependent, there's going to be problems. You've heard of codependency.

[00:32:57]But if you are interdependent, that's the third alternative.

[00:33:02]>> Interdependent. Let's talk about interdependence.

[00:33:04]>> So, Christ No, let me finish. Now you got your floor. Christ and the father are independent. Now in the beginning, >> no, you said interdependent.

[00:33:13]>> Interdependent.

[00:33:13]>> That means they depend on each other >> in a sense.

[00:33:17]>> That means none of them are gods.

[00:33:18]>> But they're not. Let me finish.

[00:33:21]>> Okay.

[00:33:22]>> Go ahead. Finish.

[00:33:23]>> You get my mind. Um >> because it's very strong.

[00:33:26]>> In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth. That's in Genesis.

[00:33:31]In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.

[00:33:35]That's in John book.

[00:33:37]>> Okay. We have God creating everything.

[00:33:40]And I think most of us in Genesis would agree that he's Elohim or whatever. Goes by a number of different titles, but Elohim is one of them. Okay. The father.

[00:33:52]All right. But then it says um in the beginning was the word. The word was God. The word was God. The same was in the beginning with God. Okay. So the word who we see is Christ in John 1:14 because the word was made flesh and uh dwelt among us and and revealed to glory the glory of the only begotten of the father full of grace and truth. All right. So we have him but it says the same was in the beginning with God. And then it says, "All things were made by him." Who? It's referring back to the word who is Jesus. As we see in verse 14, all things were made by who? Jesus.

[00:34:36]All things were made by the word. All things were made by Jesus. In him, all things were made by him. And without him, Jesus was not anything made that was made.

[00:34:53]I detect that whatever religion you're following that you >> Islam, >> okay, that you don't have the Holy Spirit inside of you and that's why you're having trouble understanding this cuz the things of truly the things of God only.

[00:35:07]>> Do you have the Holy Spirit in you?

[00:35:09]>> What?

[00:35:09]>> Do you have the Holy Spirit in you?

[00:35:10]>> Absolutely. And positively.

[00:35:12]>> Good. Now answer the question. So you have two beings, father and son. They're independent of each other. Explain that.

[00:35:18]>> Let me make one last statement and I can get to you. So therefore, we have Jesus who made all things because it refers back to pronoun.

[00:35:28]>> The antecedent of the pronoun is the word which we find out in verse 14 >> was Christ. Things were made by Christ and without him that was anything was made that was made. Okay. So, how can you have is the Bible contradicting itself? Is it lying when it says in Genesis 1 that Genesis 1:1 that God created the heavens and earth, but now it's saying that Jesus created the heavens earth. The only way to reconcile that and then I'm going to ask you a question.

[00:36:02]>> No, answer the question first.

[00:36:04]>> I I will I will ask. Okay, brother.

[00:36:06]Let's Okay. So, how do I reconcile that?

[00:36:08]I'll come back to the same question.

[00:36:10]>> In the beginning, In the beginning, Elohim created the heavens and the earth. You know how he created? He says, "Let there be." So God spoke, his words created.

[00:36:28]John also says, "God's word created." So John was speaking about the word of God that God used to create. If I were to ask you now the Christian dilemma or trilmma, which word of God is Jesus himself? A particular word or all the words?

[00:36:46]Because in Islam we believe Isaam or Jesus is a word of Allah bestowed bestowed to Mary which was be and he was. So you believe in a different way. Do you believe the actual of Allah the attribute of God which is his speech his word is Christ? Now I'm going to ask you is Christ the total summation the complete sum of the speech of God his words a particular one because the John says and the word became flesh. I'm sure you know the word for Greek for became became flesh. That means the word is no longer the word.

[00:37:28]The word became flesh. If Jesus was all the words of God, then God the father cannot speak anymore because now it's flesh and it's turned into a someone called human being on earth incarnated as Jesus. But he's speaking to the father. That means according to John contextually Jesus was not all the words of God because this word which is now in flesh is speaking to the father and they're communicating. So that means he is a particular word of God. So now we realize how the reconciliate reconciliation goes. Genesis and John if you think about it they're only saying God creates with his creative command be let there be light there was light. Let there be heaven on the earth there was heaven the earth. Now let's return to the question that we are discussing interdependency. You gave a third option between dependent and independent. I'm going to ask you about interdependency.

[00:38:25]Interdependency means each one of them depend on another. So let's test this.

[00:38:31]Let's test with God the father. God the father was he in any way, shape or form dependent for his life and existence on the son or the holy spirit? The answers are yes. He was dependent for his own existence and life on the son or the holy spirit or he wasn't.

[00:38:51]That's the two options. Which one are you going to go for?

[00:38:58]>> You know, I'll tell you, >> I think most Christians really have a hard time understanding the Trinity. And I think the reason why is because it's a little bit beyond all of us.

[00:39:12]>> Carry on.

[00:39:13]>> You know, forget about those Christians who don't understand. You should understand. That's why I'm saying, does the Bible understand God?

[00:39:20]Well, I imagine >> we are trying to now establish that the Bible is confused about God.

[00:39:26]>> The Bible is giving you a picture of a God which is incoherent, which doesn't make sense. Maybe you can correct me in saying no, the Bible does present a picture of God which is coherent. So between the father and the son and the holy spirit is the father in any way shape or form in any way dependent for his own existence on the son that without the son giving him life he would not exist without the holy spirit or together holy spirit and the son giving existence and life to the father the father would not be in existence which one is it he's independent of them or dependent on them >> well I still prefer the term interdependent I don't think the >> So use the term and tell me >> there was one point one point where for some unexplainable reason though we we can kind of explain it that the father and son were independent of each other.

[00:40:22]You know when that is in the Bible um I am asking you a different question.

[00:40:27]I don't want to move the discussion somewhere else.

[00:40:30]>> I'm talking about the existence and life life of the father life. I don't think I don't think you're understanding where I'm going.

[00:40:38]>> Do you understand my question?

[00:40:39]>> Why did Jesus say, "My God, my God, why have you forsaken me?"

[00:40:43]>> It's easy because we believe he has a God. And that's why he is demonstrating BY WORDS AND BY ACTION by going to Garden of Gethsemane, kneeling on the ground, putting his foot on the ground and saying, "God, let this cup be away from me." Demonstrating that he is not God. He has a God that can listen to his prayers. He says, Not according to my will but according to your will. That means he's subservient of his will to the will of the one who is greater than him and knows he can answer the prayer.

[00:41:15]>> That's for reason.

[00:41:17]>> One moment. One moment. So now about the life of the father, his existence and life.

[00:41:23]>> Is the life of the father dependent on the son giving it or independent of the son giving it? The father inherently inherently possesses this quality, this attribute, this property. Either he inherently has it or it's been given by the others. That's why he's dependent on them.

[00:41:44]>> Maybe he is being confused.

[00:41:46]>> I can't I can't get it from everybody.

[00:41:48]>> Can I say something? You know, in Islam, we believe that the spirit is a creator of God.

[00:41:55]>> Creator of God.

[00:41:56]>> Yeah. Yeah. A spirit is is a creation of God. Oh. Oh, okay.

[00:42:00]>> But the difference is you think that you have Holy Spirit in you. Yeah.

[00:42:05]>> But in Islam, >> I don't think it.

[00:42:06]>> No, you don't.

[00:42:07]>> I have it.

[00:42:08]>> You have it.

[00:42:09]>> Yeah. There's a difference between thinking it.

[00:42:11]>> But but the thing that we believe is the spirit is a creation of God. No.

[00:42:16]>> And he put it inside of the human being.

[00:42:18]>> Okay.

[00:42:18]>> Yeah. That's not what the Bible >> Thank you, sister. But that's not what we were discussing.

[00:42:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. Right.

[00:42:23]>> Okay. Um so too many things are >> let's focus on the two options that you mentioned two options >> independent dependent or independent >> about about the life of the father either he has it by himself inherently >> about okay you mentioned about inferiority so take this couple again >> I'm not discussing that I was just only answering because you mentioned the point >> I'm going to answer I'm going to answer what you said about inferiority >> the Bible teaches that this woman is to hoopatasa degree to this man. In other words, you're to submit to him, right? The Bible teaches that. And you Muslims are very familiar with the term submission, right? Okay? That means that as a wife, she is to submit. And the Greek word kumataso means, in other words, somebody wants to argue it. A lot of Westerners would argue with what it means, >> but it means to put yourself under.

[00:43:22]Please don't do that. So >> you should move your camera instead of taking the people away from just because you can't take the picture in >> under him in that sense.

[00:43:31]>> Which sounds like well you're not really equal but that's not what the Bible teaches. Okay. You guys are equal. In fact in my therapy I'm a psychotherapist. He knows uh if I mention that but as a therapist I and I do a lot of marriage and family therapy.

[00:43:47]I say I'm an equal opportunity misery person. I will treat you two as equals and the reason why is because you are equal.

[00:43:55]>> Now that doesn't mean that there aren't separate roles.

[00:43:58]>> I think we should go back to that.

[00:43:59]>> So Christ as a human being cuz he was 100% human. So when he was oh God take this cup away from me. You mentioned and you said that you know that showed his inferiority so to speak. That was his human side. He was not 50% human and 50% God. He was 100% human and 100% God.

[00:44:24]Well, that makes 200. How can that be?

[00:44:26]Well, you figured it out.

[00:44:28]>> We figured it out already.

[00:44:29]>> Yeah. The Holy Spirit.

[00:44:30]>> That's why it doesn't make sense.

[00:44:31]>> Yeah, I know.

[00:44:31]>> If you if you're 100% God and 100% human, out of 200%, you're 100%. That means you're still 50/50. You cannot get it around any other way.

[00:44:40]>> No.

[00:44:40]>> And brother, just because you don't and then you're not thinking divine. Let let me come back to this question but because you raised this let's carry on with this flow as a divine being Jesus can he go against the will of the father because humans you're saying that's only a human as a divine person can he disagree with the father >> never he was tempted like every human being that's why he could be our high priest but it says he was tempted Hebrews 4:15. Okay.

[00:45:15]>> Yet without sin.

[00:45:16]>> Okay. Let me give you an example.

[00:45:17]>> Wait one more. No. No. One second. One second. One second. One second.

[00:45:21]>> I'm not finished. I'm not finished. This is a leaf.

[00:45:24]>> Yeah.

[00:45:25]>> To pick this leaf up. Look. I lift it up. Can you do that, too?

[00:45:29]>> Yeah.

[00:45:29]>> Can you Okay. You have the ability to do that as a human being.

[00:45:32]>> Of course, God would also have the ability to lift this up if he wanted to.

[00:45:36]Okay. God the Father, if he wants to lift this leaf up up to here, 1 meter from the ground, he's able to do so.

[00:45:44]>> Yes. Good. God the Son, the divine Jesus, according to your belief, he wants to lift the same leaf at the same time up to here, 2 m. Is he able to do that? Does he have a power to do that?

[00:46:00]>> Yeah.

[00:46:00]>> Yes.

[00:46:01]>> Okay. Where is the leaf going to go?

[00:46:06]Well, that's a good question.

[00:46:08]>> And the good answer, >> the good answer is the father says not my will but thine be done or Jesus said not my will but >> that's a human speaking human. We're talking about the divine now.

[00:46:19]>> Yeah. Well, >> we're talking about the divine. Remember you said or human inferiority. Forget the human Jesus. The divine JESUS WITH THE DIVINE authority of might and power and glory and so on. So now where is the lift going to go? 1 m, 2 m or somewhere else? If it goes somewhere else, none of them are able, none of them are gods. IF IT GOES UP HERE one meter, >> I got the point.

[00:46:40]>> No, no. Let me finish. I'll give you the option. If the leaf is up to here, then it means the father is God and not the son. Because brother, >> hear me out.

[00:46:51]>> Yeah.

[00:46:52]>> If the leaf comes up to here, it means the one who wanted to take it up to there failed miserably.

[00:46:59]>> Yeah, that's right.

[00:47:00]>> That means the one which is the divine Jesus cannot be divine. cannot be God because he has no power to do so.

[00:47:06]>> If it comes here out of this example of these two who are trying to lift the leaf only one the father is God. If the leaf goes up here then the son divine Jesus is God and the father is not divine and not god because he failed miserably to keep belie at one meter.

[00:47:27]Either way you can only have one of them being true God. If it goes somewhere else like it's still on the ground, none of them are God. So now you know NOW TELL ME WHERE is the leaf going to go?

[00:47:38]>> The leaf is going to go exactly where the father and the son of >> where where is that?

[00:47:45]>> Let him let him respond. Let him respond. Go ahead. Exactly where >> it's going to go exactly where they agree that it ought to go. So let me finish here. Jesus said, Jesus said, have an open mind here. Open your heart.

[00:48:04]Jesus said that I always do the things that please the father.

[00:48:10]>> Is that human or divine Jesus saying?

[00:48:11]>> Okay.

[00:48:12]>> No, you need to clarify as you clarify earlier.

[00:48:14]>> Always. Your purpose 1 Corinthians 7:32-34 for both of you. Your purpose is to always do the things as far as possible. And when I say as far as possible, unless he tells you to do something really heinous to please your husband, >> you will be able to deal with that.

[00:48:38]>> Okay? Now, I know the feminists would hate me for saying that.

[00:48:42]>> I suggest you leave.

[00:48:44]>> Slow down. Slow down. The feminists would hate me for that, but then it says the same thing to you. Exactly. Look it up. 1 Corinthians 7:34.

[00:48:54]Husband, you always do the things that will please your wife. That is your purpose.

[00:49:00]>> In fact, actually, if you weren't married, you'd be free to do just to please the father. Could we could we go back to the question? I'm just where would >> we will, but since you're involved since you're involved, the Bible says to the wives, wives, submit unto your husband like unto the Lord. How do Christians submit to the Lord? Conditionally or unconditionally? The answer is unconditional submission. That's how you should submit to the God. So the Christian view of women is this. Woman submits to the husband like unconditionally. If your husband says bark like a dog, you have no way to disagree with him because just like if God commands you to stand here like this, you stand here like that unconditionally. So the Christian view of women, the Christians don't know what it says. Secondly, the questions about this about you know how inferior and so on human beings. Why do you bring human beings when you're talking about God?

[00:49:59]God is absolutely all powerful, independent, almighty and he's sovereign. He has a will that he doesn't compromise. He's not say I know what oh okay let me just compromise.

[00:50:11]When we are saying the father wants it up here and the son wants it up there.

[00:50:17]If I were to ask you where is the leaf going to go. Where is the leaf going to go? You know it either goes here or there. If it goes here that is not God.

[00:50:28]If it goes there this is not God.

[00:50:29]>> No one second.

[00:50:30]>> No one second.

[00:50:31]>> Don't bark like a dog if he tells you to bark like a dog >> because he's not going to do that as a Muslim. because because it would not be necessarily God's will. And David, I tell my clients, don't do >> God does not want you to do his will.

[00:50:49]>> Really, he wants you to delight to do his will. David, who wasn't God in the flesh, but he was had a heart that was perfect before God. Um, though he sinned, obviously, you guys know about that probably. Uh pretty sent a soldier to the to die and we should >> Yeah, that would be one. Oh, there's many.

[00:51:12]>> Not listening. The reason why this is not relevant.

[00:51:15]>> Yeah, I know.

[00:51:15]>> He he had adultery anyway.

[00:51:18]>> No, I want to finish this one.

[00:51:20]>> I think that's fine. But we got it something else.

[00:51:22]>> This is in that you've got a very good question.

[00:51:25]>> Philippians chapter 2. Yeah. No, let me address it here. Go ahead.

[00:51:29]>> In verse six, >> he's answering my question about belief.

[00:51:31]>> Chapter two. In chapter I already gave you the answer. No, you haven't given me the answer.

[00:51:35]>> No, I haven't.

[00:51:35]>> What was your answer? Okay.

[00:51:36]>> What was the answer?

[00:51:37]>> Remind us what was your answer?

[00:51:39]>> They go where they both agree on.

[00:51:40]>> Making my mind spin. I got to give you this point.

[00:51:44]>> The whole point make your mind spin and get >> so you can be set free from the confusion and the errors and falsehood of your belief. That's the whole point.

[00:51:52]>> But it's not the offer of confusion, my friend.

[00:51:54]>> I have a feeling I'm gone here.

[00:51:56]>> Okay.

[00:51:57]>> Is this a Muslim party? Anyway, >> you're welcome to join our party. YOU'RE WELCOME TO JOIN THE ISLAMIC GROUP. the Islam and brotherhood of Islam. Once you join Islam, your confusion will all be all removed.

[00:52:08]>> We must be friends at least right now.

[00:52:10]Anyway, Philippians 2 verse 6 says that being in the form of God, he did not consider it robbery to be equal with God. So, he was equal with God, but made himself of no repaam. Nice to meet you.

[00:52:26]Hey, >> you're such guy. Thank you.

[00:52:29]>> Thank you for allowing me to pick on you, too. You look like a lovely couple.

[00:52:36]>> This is your first marriage, right?

[00:52:38]>> Yeah.

[00:52:38]>> Okay.

[00:52:39]>> That wasn't what happened.

[00:52:43]>> HE MESSED IT ALL UP.

[00:52:44]>> The Lord's blessing. Thank you.

[00:52:46]>> It was good initially, but with the last comment, >> thank you. Bye.

[00:52:52]>> Do you know those guys?

[00:52:53]>> No, I don't.

[00:52:54]>> They seem like a lovely couple.

[00:52:55]>> Yeah, but >> I guess they're Muslims, too.

[00:52:58]>> Oh, but anyway, okay. Okay, I gave you verse 6 in Philippians 2 in verse 11.

[00:53:03]Let's see. Um, I don't have everything.

[00:53:06]I I have it memorized, but I can't.

[00:53:08]>> But I have a problem with this verse that you quote from Philippians.

[00:53:11]>> I know.

[00:53:11]>> It doesn't make sense. I'll tell you why.

[00:53:13]>> Well, just a minute. It says, "Every knee shall bow. Every tongue shall confess and every knee shall bow." Okay.

[00:53:19]Every knee shall bow and every tongue shall confess that Jesus Christ is Lord to the glory of God the Father. You can't have more than one Lord. The Lord God, Jesus, and the Father are one.

[00:53:36]You're missing the whole point. And one thing I would really >> So, you're answering my question about the leaf, right?

[00:53:41]>> One thing I would caution you about, forget about the dumb leaf.

[00:53:44]>> It's not a dumb leaf.

[00:53:45]>> It's a really good example.

[00:53:47]>> No, this is more important.

[00:53:49]>> You're dishonoring the son.

[00:53:51]>> I'm not dishonoring. I'M PUTTING IN HIS RIGHT PLACE.

[00:53:54]>> SO, let me explain. Let me explain. We become >> Philippians brother. The Philippians talks about how in the very nature like God he made himself nothing. That's what the problem is. God cannot become other than God. God cannot lose his divinity and then incarnate in the human flesh because that's nonsensical. Give me an example.

[00:54:15]>> Nonsensical in your opinion.

[00:54:17]>> I as I said I'm explaining to you by an example so you understand why it's nonsensical.

[00:54:22]>> God is ever living. He cannot choose not to live forever and then come here as a mortal and die and cease to exist.

[00:54:32]>> Why not?

[00:54:33]>> One second. Because his nature is to be all existing, everlasting.

[00:54:40]So God, he has qualities and natures of himself. One of them is knowledge.

[00:54:46]Omniscience. He's all knowledgeable.

[00:54:49]When we say God is all knowledgeable, what we mean is God knows the past, the present and the future. Nothing is hidden from him.

[00:54:59]>> So, so, so such a being it makes no sense to say having knowledge of all things he comes down as a human being lives for 33 years and he doesn't know when the hour is going to come. He says I don't know but someone else knows. God will always be all knowledgeable because Jesus says of that day and of that hour knows no one. No man knows it. Not even the angels in heaven know this. Not even the son knows this. Do you know who the son is? Jesus himself. But >> only the father. So now we have another exclusive statement like you are the only true God. Jesus is saying the only person being agency that knows when the world's going to come to an end which he calls is the father. He excludes the knowledge from himself that he doesn't know either. If he says I don't know the only one who knows is the father it is obviously clear he cannot be God. Why?

[00:56:05]Because God knows all the time. There cannot be any moment of time where God is ignorant of anything even to a fraction of a millisecond or a microscond. God is aware all times. He's totally unnowledgeable. So Philippians is a text that is incoherent, irrational, illogical, nonsensical, not believable, false. It cannot be from God >> to you.

[00:56:32]>> No, no, no. When I want use the word irrational any rational sane human being, any logical sane human being, any reasonable sane human being will wait. I am saying using intellect and rationality, >> it is obvious clearly you're not because if you use >> divine logic, my friend.

[00:56:54]>> Oh, so you have two different logics.

[00:56:55]>> Divine logic. No, because you don't see that. See God. Okay. First of all, >> 1 + 1 equal two.

[00:57:01]>> This is logic.

[00:57:04]>> Let's let's let's understand the divine logic. There's a difference between divine logic and human logic. You're saying, right?

[00:57:09]>> Oh, absolutely.

[00:57:10]>> So, so >> father, excuse me. I don't I don't like hecklers in the discussion.

[00:57:18]>> If you bring We had a nice discussion, if you bring hecklers in. One second.

[00:57:23]One second. One second. Um, one second.

[00:57:25]One second. One second. You don't mind?

[00:57:27]>> Um, >> oh, you're not Islam?

[00:57:29]>> No, I'm >> absolutely nuts.

[00:57:31]>> I like your hair.

[00:57:32]>> Thank you very much. Christ is just one second. Truth and life. Nobody else.

[00:57:37]>> Look, I have I have Look, I have an album called Get into this.

[00:57:42]>> Well, basically, this is what he does week in week out.

[00:57:46]>> I rope them in.

[00:57:47]>> If it wasn't if it wasn't for you, brother, >> I wouldn't have gotten in. Yeah, he got into this mess.

[00:57:53]>> Yeah, I see.

[00:57:53]>> I was having a conversation with him.

[00:57:55]One thing they like doing quite a bit is trying to reduce gods. So >> uh yeah, >> I like this guy.

[00:58:01]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So he agrees.

[00:58:03]>> I think I think >> we have to shake hands.

[00:58:08]>> I think it's come to a point where you're not willing to continue THE DISCUSSION ANYMORE.

[00:58:13]>> OKAY, FINE. I'm discussing with you. I'm not interested with the heckler. If you don't mind, >> would you would you would you would you respect would you respect my wishes of not speaking to a heckler? See what happens is if you >> Would you respect my wish of not respect?

[00:58:28]Let me just continue the conversation between us please and with >> Would you respect my wishes of not me continuing to speak to a heckler? That's my wish.

[00:58:37]>> And he please join in. So I had something I wanted to share with you and now I >> WE WERE DISCUSSING. OKAY. SO LET'S remind you back. We were discussing about talking >> Philippians. Just a minute. Yes. I got to clear >> divine logic. You said >> be quiet, please.

[00:58:53]>> I got to clear my head here.

[00:58:55]>> Yeah, go ahead. It's the clearing.

[00:58:56]>> I'm starting to remember you're talking about um Okay, the question is >> Okay, don't interrupt.

[00:59:06]>> Can because I I need to get to stop. I'm trying to respond to what you're saying.

[00:59:12]>> If don't go totally away, if he comes back again, that will be the end of the discussion.

[00:59:17]>> I warn you, >> God. Um okay listen there's a question >> can Okay. God is omnipotent omnisient you mentioned omnisient or all knowing >> uh and all powerful. In other words can do anything right?

[00:59:34]>> No.

[00:59:35]>> Amen.

[00:59:36]>> Yes.

[00:59:36]>> Well yes and no.

[00:59:37]>> Yes. No.

[00:59:38]>> God can't do anything. Oh no I said that wrong. God can't do everything >> because he can't do nothing against his own nature. In other words, >> excellent.

[00:59:49]>> Thank you. Well, I I knew you were going to go. God cannot lie. It says it clearly.

[00:59:54]>> Uh God is It says God is not a man that he spl >> 1 Samuel 15:29, Numbers 23:19.

[01:00:03]>> Wow.

[01:00:03]>> Both of them. Yeah.

[01:00:05]>> Glory of Israel cannot lie or change his mind.

[01:00:07]>> Come here.

[01:00:07]>> Yeah.

[01:00:09]>> High five.

[01:00:09]>> Okay. Okay. Whatever. Yeah.

[01:00:11]>> Good job, man. You're right. I didn't know.

[01:00:15]>> All right. So he can't do so. So So yeah, you were talking about how, you know, God um >> I can't remember exactly what you said.

[01:00:24]>> Doesn't change his nature.

[01:00:26]>> Well, yeah. No, I got that. But what you were saying about God um >> God's knowledge, >> he can't die.

[01:00:32]>> God's knowledge.

[01:00:32]>> He can't He can't He can't cease to exist.

[01:00:34]>> Basically, yeah. Can't cease to exist and stuff like that because >> it goes against his nature.

[01:00:38]>> He can't go against his nature.

[01:00:40]>> So we got to figure out what God's nature is.

[01:00:43]>> Yeah.

[01:00:43]>> Is he all knowledgeable in his nature?

[01:00:45]you. I I need to help him get I need to be able to think to get my train of thought.

[01:00:50]>> Okay, let's God >> God's not going to lie. Uh he's not going to murder. He might kill, but he won't murder. Okay, because he did kill.

[01:01:02]I mean, there was the flood, but he will not murder. In other words, unjust taking of human life. But then there's the question about Jesus. And the question is, is that against God's nature? And the thing that I get about God's nature is this. And now this is a verse that virtually every Christian does and probably most Is it okay if I call you guys Muslims?

[01:01:29]>> We are Muslims.

[01:01:30]>> Okay. I mean, I know it's Islam, but Muslim >> Muslims is who follow Islam.

[01:01:34]>> Want to be respectful. Yeah, I figured.

[01:01:36]Okay. So the most famous verse in the Bible, I think to all Christians, not Jews, Deuteronomy, but is John 3:16. So that kind of explains something about his nature. For God so loved the world, God so loved the that he gave his only only though we can become sons of God, it's like we become it through him. In other words, actually there aren't really technically any daughters of God.

[01:02:05]women become sons of God. Now, that might sound sexist, but then we're all part of the bride of Christ. That sounds sexist on the point. Yeah.

[01:02:13]>> Other Sorry, >> I don't.

[01:02:16]>> No, no, I just want to make sure that we get into the point I tried to say there.

[01:02:18]Yeah.

[01:02:19]>> For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son that whoever believes on him should not perish but have everlasting life. He was divine and is divine and he was human.

[01:02:33]>> I guess he's still human in that sense.

[01:02:35]But so he came here and became a human and that did not contradict the nature of God because it it demonstrated what God is love. By the way, God is also holy and you guys really emphasize that a lot. I've noticed that about Islam and I and I appreciate that. And a lot of Christians in my country in America, >> they're into the God is love, but they're not into the God is holy part enough. and he is holy but he is love and that he demonstrated that love by doing something that was very painful to God. God can be grieved.

[01:03:16]>> Okay, >> you're talking about God's nature of knowledge. I'm reminding you again.

[01:03:21]>> So, okay, the knowledge part is very simple.

[01:03:24]>> Can he become ignorant?

[01:03:26]>> Um, in one sense, yes.

[01:03:29]>> What sense can he be? can be ignorant in the sense that his expression >> not I'm talking about can he truly not know something when he knows it already >> when his expression which is Jesus >> can he truly not know something can he truly not know something excuse me can he excuse me hello rack >> don't let him ask you a second one you're going to answer that's where I can go truly not know something it louder doesn't >> God. Are you listening, Greg?

[01:04:03]>> How old are you?

[01:04:04]>> How old are you?

[01:04:06]>> Old enough.

[01:04:08]>> No, the reason I'm asking is because I'm a lot older than you, so my processes go a little slow.

[01:04:14]>> I'll take it slowly. I'll do it slowly.

[01:04:15]>> I'm 75 years old.

[01:04:16]>> Good. Good.

[01:04:17]>> And when you when you MAY GOD GUIDE YOU TO ISLAM QUESTION.

[01:04:20]>> NO, may God guide you to Islam because 75 is a good age.

[01:04:23]>> Well, you look like you're about 30.

[01:04:25]>> Um, >> I'm actually a little bit older than that.

[01:04:27]>> I know you are.

[01:04:28]>> Accept that. Time to recognize let's go to the budget.

[01:04:33]>> Can God truly not know something while he knows it already?

[01:04:39]>> He he he can know not know something if that's his will because love dictates to him because he is love.

[01:04:48]>> Exactly.

[01:04:49]>> Sorry, I'm I'm I'm a bit um confused here. I'm like now age 75, right? Okay.

[01:04:55]>> Can God truly not can can God truly not know something when he knows it already?

[01:05:00]You says if he wills to then he can be >> not knowledgeable of the subject matter.

[01:05:06]So now you're saying God can exercise his will >> expression only. So listen at all.

[01:05:11]>> Don't interrupt. God you're saying >> that's the answer in expression.

[01:05:14]>> I already answered there.

[01:05:15]>> Excuse me.

[01:05:16]>> I cannot speak to you if he keeps on talking.

[01:05:21]Can >> you're saying God can exercise his will on his attribute of knowledge that if God so >> if God if God so wills >> let me ask you confirm or correct me wills he can truly not know something while knowing it.

[01:05:42]>> What does knowledge mean by the way?

[01:05:43]>> Do you agree? Well, what does know mean question?

[01:05:45]>> Do you agree? God, if so, >> that's defined terms.

[01:05:48]>> Wilt by himself, he can truly not know something while he knew it already.

[01:05:52]>> Cuz now we're lost.

[01:05:54]>> Yeah, that's defined terms.

[01:05:56]>> Um, temporarily he can unknow something through Christ, his expression.

[01:06:02]>> No, the father himself, the father individually, can he truly not know something if he wanted to while he knew it already?

[01:06:11]>> That's why there's more than one aspect.

[01:06:12]I'm talking about the father only specific question process it slowly the father has knowledge and father has lay a trap on >> no no no the father not trap DON'T PUT IN A TRAP THIS IS OPENING YOUR heart and mind to the truth so the father father has will and the father has knowledge right >> so can the father truly not know something if he so wills not to know while he knew it already >> what does knowledge mean I want to know cuz YOU NO, >> JORDAN PETERSON.

[01:06:43]>> WHAT DOES IT MEAN?

[01:06:44]>> This is what they confuse. When their when their belief is shattered, they go to Jordan Peterson.

[01:06:49]>> I don't think he's a heckler, by the way.

[01:06:51]>> Um, he is a heckler.

[01:06:53]>> He is he's crushed this discussion here.

[01:06:55]We were having a nice discussion. The moment he cames in, looks what happened.

[01:07:00]Look what happened. So, >> this this uh friend of yours, he's put in a few two senses, too.

[01:07:06]>> He's not heckling.

[01:07:07]>> He's heckling. So now can I CAN I ASK YOU ONE last time and then we will say >> sorry >> we call it a day I didn't GET YOUR NAME >> CAN can >> don't go away >> can the father >> if he so willed >> uhhu >> to go against his nature of all knowingness and become less than all knowing.

[01:07:26]>> What does nature mean exactly?

[01:07:28]>> Can you do that?

[01:07:29]>> And what does all knowingness mean too?

[01:07:31]>> All knowing is the nature of God. Do you agree or disagree?

[01:07:33]>> Uh what does nature mean?

[01:07:35]>> Do you agree or do you disagree?

[01:07:39]What does nature mean? Because like what what >> God does some things that doesn't appear to be very much God's nature, but he does it because >> is being all knowledgeable the nature of God.

[01:07:50]>> Okay, there's >> I would say >> what does what mean? What does does mean? What does mean mean? This is WHAT TOTAL PRISON DOES. NO, not me. This guy doesn't worry about them. Listen, >> you sound like Bill Clinton.

[01:08:08]>> No, no, no.

[01:08:09]>> Yeah, I don't agree with him.

[01:08:10]>> You sound like Bill Clinton.

[01:08:12]>> That's why I'm saying >> what is his name?

[01:08:13]>> Excellent. Tell him that.

[01:08:14]>> Tell him that.

[01:08:15]>> Tell him THAT BECAUSE HE'S SAYING WHAT HIS NATURE MEANS.

[01:08:17]>> WHAT'S YOUR QUESTION AGAIN? SORRY.

[01:08:19]>> So my question my question the question.

[01:08:22]>> Do you agree that the nature of God is all knowledgeable?

[01:08:25]>> What's nature?

[01:08:26]>> How did Jesus become sin?

[01:08:28]>> Okay. Right. That's the end of the discussion. We've had a nice interesting discussion. Read the Quran.

[01:08:34]>> Oh, please don't do Read the biography of the prophet Muhammad sallallahu alaihi wasallam because I get your name.

[01:08:39]I >> I will give you my name is Mansour. I have a channel called Daw Wise.

[01:08:43]>> Do you have a card or >> I don't have a card. I mean I'm not that special.

[01:08:46]>> Can I write it down?

[01:08:47]>> I have a channel called Daw Wise. Can you see that with this logo?

[01:08:51]>> Can I take a picture?

[01:08:52]>> Yeah, you can take a picture.

[01:08:54]>> Okay.

[01:08:54]>> Yeah.

[01:08:55]>> I'm not committing I'm not committing idolatry. No.

[01:08:58]>> I don't think you're God at all. You will you will learn a lot by going >> and you will see that once you go and and listen to our discussions.

[01:09:06]>> He's not trying to get you. He's trying to open your mind.

[01:09:11]>> Can you see that?

[01:09:12]>> Is that his nature?

[01:09:13]>> What does nature mean?

[01:09:14]>> Daw wise. Yeah. SUBSCRIBE EVERYONE BECAUSE THERE ARE UNIQUE EXCLUSIVE CONTENTS THERE THAT YOU WILL NOT FIND IN THE channel that you're watching other than Daw Wise. So, so pleasure speaking to you.

[01:09:25]>> So, subscribe to give your name.

[01:09:27]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[01:09:29]Do you have a copy of THE QURAN? IF NOT, I CAN GET YOU ONE. I can get you one, >> brother. Um, can you get a copy OF THE QURAN FROM THERE >> OR FROM THERE? Can anyone go there?

[01:09:38]There should be a copy of the Quran there.

[01:09:40]>> Now, we will learn a lot.

[01:09:41]>> We move too fast. You got to make the morning last picking up those cobblestones and feeling groovy.

[01:09:53]>> Thank you very much. from the Quran.

[01:09:57]>> Um, with >> Can I write this?

[01:09:58]>> Yes, of course. Of course. This is for you. A gift.

[01:10:02]>> Okay, hang on. Hang on. What's How do you spell your name?

[01:10:05]>> You can spell your name any like.

[01:10:06]Mansour. It's phonetic. No, no, phonetically.

[01:10:09]>> Just put it M A N S U R. That's one way to remember the name. Mansour.

[01:10:13]>> But every other way, you will somehow have a different >> with an R at the end. Yeah.

[01:10:19]>> R.

[01:10:20]>> Yeah. Mansour.

[01:10:22]>> Wait. M A >> R for Romeo at the end. Yeah.

[01:10:25]>> M A S O L >> M A N.

[01:10:28]>> Yeah.

[01:10:29]>> M A N.

[01:10:30]>> I cannot write it down. So, this is for you.

[01:10:33]>> Wait, wait, wait. Yeah, let's use the >> It's okay. It's okay. It's the Quran, right? EVEN IF IT'S THE BIBLE, we would say not to use it, >> right?

[01:10:39]>> I would do it on the >> It's been a pleasure speaking to you. Um um do do visit Daw's channel for lots of other contents, educational contents and you know hopefully God will open up your heart and your mind to Islam and save you from the hellfire because you know what what the Quran says whoever chooses whoever chooses any other religion other than Islam >> what >> this is here it will be never accepted of them and of the in the hereafter they will be the losers. So now as I told you Islam is the only way acceptable to God because any anyone who chooses any other way in the hereafter they will be the losers. Islam is worshiping God alone one and only true God worshiping alone and doing the will of God which is expressed through his final messenger prophet Muhammad who received this Quran. Okay. Take care.

[01:11:40]Take care. All the best.

[01:11:47]Thank you.