COME DEBATE US ON ANYTHING/ASK US ANYTHING!

[00:00:02]All right.

[00:00:04]Does say we're live, so give me give it a moment.

[00:00:18]Okay.

[00:00:24]All right. We are live everybody and I do not have video at the moment. again.

[00:00:29]My connection will be better in a few days, but we're live with everyone and we're going to have a great time. Gary, David, how you been, brothers?

[00:00:37]>> Doing great.

[00:00:39]>> How have you been, David?

[00:00:40]>> Yeah, awesome. Yesterday I was on AR's channel.

[00:00:45]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:00:45]>> I heard. How did that go?

[00:00:47]>> Very good. I I named you a heretic, William.

[00:00:51]>> I heard that. I heard I got called your favorite heretic, man.

[00:00:55]>> Exactly. [laughter] But I was just kidding, of course. So, >> yeah. Yeah, I'll take it. I'll take it.

[00:01:01]Hey, at least I'm I'm your favorite of something, man. Favorite of something.

[00:01:04]So, I'm I'm glad.

[00:01:05]>> Right. Right. You know what? It's It was the same way as you said, uh, you know, 25th number heretic in the list and and so on.

[00:01:14]>> Right. Right. Right. No, I love it. I love it.

[00:01:16]>> Did you Ari?

[00:01:18]>> Did you debate Ari?

[00:01:20]>> Yeah, he crushed me. Sorry, she me actually.

[00:01:23]>> Oh, she did? Oh, [laughter] the the can canon sniper goes down.

[00:01:28]>> Right.

[00:01:29]>> There you go. The canonical sniper.

[00:01:31]Doctor, doctor, doctor, David.

[00:01:35]>> Exactly. Exactly.

[00:01:37]>> Okay.

[00:01:38]>> No, no. I actually we just had a very uh good discussion and I was she was like entering me you know about myself my uh upbringing and how how I actually became part of this magnificent channel guys >> I love the story behind >> sweet well I definitely gotta watch it >> yeah no doubt no doubt I'm glad I'm glad pumped to be with all of y'all thank you for being here everybody We're also going to take any of your questions. Do you have anything on your mind? We're going to start it off with Wes Huff responding and we'll be taking your questions, too, guys. You let me know when you want me to put the video up.

[00:02:20]>> Uh yeah. Um whenever you are. I'm I'm all set. I got the link in the pocket of Apocalypse and uh I think we're all set to go.

[00:02:31]>> Let's rock and roll. And let me get the link and I'll put it right here as well.

[00:02:37]Give me a second.

[00:02:40]>> Yes, Dr. Huffen Stuff is at it again.

[00:02:45]>> Yeah, I'm a little bit shocked that, you know, uh it's pretty pretty bad from what I saw, [laughter] >> man. I I tell you, he's got to stay in his lane because whenever he talks on the cannon, it it's it's very very lowhanging fruit.

[00:03:04]I mean, in fact, this one's this one's crazy. It's so bad.

[00:03:09]>> Yeah, >> it might be one of the worst.

[00:03:11][clears throat] >> And again, we're talking about the scholar, guys. You know, it's just I mean, I'm used to pretty used to low hanging fruits on, you know, various apologetical channels and websites, but, you know, hearing these stuff from a scholar, come on, man. Come on.

[00:03:32]>> Exactly. Yeah, I agree. All right, let me pull it up.

[00:03:38]>> Yeah. Okay, so I'm going to be sharing the audio. Um, if people in the comments section, if you could give me a one, if you hear it, I just want to make sure the sound's going, then we'll we'll play the whole thing. Okay.

[00:03:50]>> Did you know that the Roman Catholic cardinal at the head of the Spanish in >> Can everybody hear that?

[00:03:56]>> Oh, yeah. All good. All good.

[00:03:58]>> Okay, good. All right. So, uh, so this is from X. Our good friend Johnny B sent us it. So, thank you, Johnny B, for sending the video. And I guess it needs no introduction. He's going to explain why there is no Catholic Bible that apparently ever existed. I don't know.

[00:04:16]We'll hear what Wes has to say. Did you know that the Roman Catholic cardinal at the head of the Spanish Inquisition didn't believe that the Apocrypha or Dudero canonical books, the extra seven books in the Roman Catholic Bible today were scripture? This right here is the competentium polyglot. It was the first printed Greek New Testament. This was produced by the work of an individual named Cardinal Humanes. Cardinal Humane was the Archbishop of Toledo and the primate of Spain. He was actually one of the individuals responsible for the Spanish Inquisition. Interestingly enough, in the competentium polygot, Hummenz specifically divides the Old Testament apocrypha outside of what he considers scripture, saying that they're useful for instruction, but not for doctrine or faith.

[00:05:06]>> Yeah.

[00:05:09]Now the post on X says prior to the Council of Trent 1545 there was no such thing as an agreed upon Roman Catholic Bible. Then he brings up Zimenez he [snorts] says in 1517 the very year Martin Luther nailed his 95 thesis at the castle door in Vittenberg which by the way is disputed whether actually happened. In the preface to his uh Complutensian Polyglot Bible described the seven books of the dudero cannon as quote books outside the canon unquote.

[00:05:41]He explains that their purpose was to quote received be received by the church rather than rather for the edification of the people rather than authoritative confirmation of ecclesiastical doctrines. In essence, Zmena's position was valuable and edifying for Christians, but outside the primary canon and insufficient by themselves to establish doctrine. So, actually the the text is a little bit even stronger than the video.

[00:06:11]>> Yeah, this is pretty bad. This is uh what we've come to unfortunately expect from Wes. And as you pointed out, both you uh David and Gary, and not in a rude way, but uh you know, sometimes it's best to just stick to your lane if you don't know the material.

[00:06:27]>> Yeah, this is terrible.

[00:06:29]So, I I got some slides, but Dr. David, do you want to take a swing at this first?

[00:06:37]>> Pope Zeus, right? [snorts] >> Yep. [laughter] He's producing his magisterial, you know, formal pronouncement on what is canon and what isn't canon in the Catholic Church, ladies and gentlemen.

[00:06:51]And that really shows you that there was no canon in the Catholic Church right at the eve of the Reformation, guys.

[00:07:01][laughter] Am I getting it or not?

[00:07:03]>> Yeah, you're getting it 100% right.

[00:07:06]Yeah. [clears throat] >> Right. Pope Yeah. Pope Jerome and Pope Zimenez, right? H I don't know what to say, guys. I mean, this is something we went over and over again.

[00:07:19]Uh yeah, it's just, you know, incorporating Jerome's preface like or is it Pistol 53? Help me out, Gary. William, >> um >> is he No, I think it's it's his helmeted prologue. was it? Or it's a commentary on the books of Solomon >> about it being edifi edifying.

[00:07:45]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:07:47]>> Yeah.

[00:07:48]>> Yeah. I I don't know what to say, guys.

[00:07:50]I mean, [sighs and gasps] I don't know even where to start because >> Well, that was a good that was a good start. That you know, [laughter] Jimenez made his decret on uh the canon.

[00:08:02]>> Super Pope. Super Pope [snorts] Jimenez.

[00:08:06]>> Yeah. Exactly. So there was no greed. Uh William, do you want to chime in before I pontificate?

[00:08:14]>> Yeah. I mean, this is the same thing that we're going to hear, we've heard for many years over and we continue hearing. And apparently right right now, uh, James White's chiming about it on apps, I was told, posting clips of your old debate with him. I don't know if you were aware of that.

[00:08:28]>> Oh, I didn't know that. Okay.

[00:08:30]>> Yeah. Yep. He's been chiming going back and forth. So, the way that I like to point it out, uh, you know, is just over and over the same old, same old. There's nothing new. Yeah. But apparently, uh, James White, I don't know if our friend is around, but I was tagged in the post.

[00:08:47]Apparently, he was going back and forth, I think, uh, debating or trying to respond to our friend John. And, uh, same old stuff that Saul was brought up, Himenez, and all that kind of stuff. Uh, these are zombies that don't go away.

[00:09:02]Isn't it right guys?

[00:09:04]>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:09:06]Okay. So um if there is no such thing as agreed upon Roman Catholic Bible because Zmenz a Catholic cardinal uh who died when Luther nailed his 95 thesis uh had quoted Jerome right then there's no great upon Protestant Bible because Martin Luther after nailing the 95 thesis and for over a year was citing the dudeonical books to confirm doctrine. So, so I guess there's no Protestant Bible either at the time of the Reformation, but that's just crazy stuff. Uh, now David's right. Like all Zenz did was he kind of alluded to uh to uh Jerome's preface and actually he's a very big Jeromus. So, William, if you wouldn't mind uh if you could bring up my slides here really quick. As usual, guys, you know, I have slides.

[00:10:01]Uh, let's see.

[00:10:02]>> I love it. I love it.

[00:10:05]>> Yeah. Here's the quote from Zimenez, and it's in his prologue to the readers of the complutencium polygot. And basically, he's he's just uh echoing Jerome. And it's like, why is he echoing Jerome? Because we got to point this out. Whenever they bring up the complutencium polygot, we got to bring out >> the exaggerated place Jerome has within the view of Zimenez.

[00:10:30]Uh here we have this amazing uh likening he does at the at the end of the same yeah the same prologue where he says that the middle column that has the Latin vulgate that was a translation of blessed Rome is between the synagogue and the eastern church. In other words, it's flanked by the Hebrew and the Greek text. Yeah.

[00:10:52]>> And so just like the two thieves were placed on either side of uh Jesus, the Roman church or Latin church is in the midst of of uh of these churches. So he likens the Latin vulgate to Christ himself and the Septuagent and the um Hebrew text as the two thieves. I mean, if that doesn't exhibit how absurdly uh exaggerated Jerome is in Zenmen's mind, um I don't know what would. Now, I found it interesting, guys. This will be my last comment, then you guys can tag on this one.

[00:11:32]>> Go ahead. Go ahead.

[00:11:33]>> I found it interesting that he quotes that part of the complutencium polygot, but he neglected to quote this part, which is the second preface to the books of Mcabes. And I have it highlighted here. And as you can see, the books of Mcabes, although they're not held in the canon of the Hebrews, nevertheless by the church, they are recorded among the histories of the divine volumes.

[00:11:59]So Dr. uh Dr. uh Huff says that there was no agreed upon Roman Catholic Bible.

[00:12:07]Well, because Zmenus well Zmenus's own complentium polygot says it is part of the Bible. So, and it's a divine part of the Bible.

[00:12:17]>> Yeah.

[00:12:17]>> So, why is it he's focusing on the preface but ignoring things like this? I don't know. Well, I'll leave it up to you guys to decide.

[00:12:25]>> It doesn't make a lot of sense. Yeah.

[00:12:27]Know, Gary. It really doesn't make a lot of sense. Great point there. Uh and and I want to give a shout out to Charles.

[00:12:33]Praises who said the three amigos is going to be a good one. And we we hope that we hope you enjoy it. We hope you love it. God bless you. and biceps brona as we like to call them says good morning everyone Mr. Gary Dr. >> [laughter] >> And of course, Wes Huff stalker 66 was agreed in Rome, but the seven dudero books was always up for interpretation.

[00:13:00]Playing devil's advocate, man. No, that's not that's not the case. But I I would even venture to say Biceps Brona could probably give a a class to Wes Huff any day.

[00:13:13]>> Oh, yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:13:16]>> Yeah, I I agree there. and Rosarium, the goated Rosarium, God bless you all for his support, says stick to flipping rocks and digging holes. Huffy, now we we got to be clear when we say in your lane, we mean he's definitely areas where he is proficient. We deny that. But be very clear, the cannon's not one of those areas. Simply, isn't. And these pretty these are you know these you know and this is just a little bit of it to to be honest guys.

[00:13:51]>> Yeah this is terrible. I have a feeling all he had was a video opportunity to show the complutencium polyot and he was trying to make it relevant and he stitched this together. But this is this is nuts. Seriously it's begging us to to comment on it. So, special thanks to Johnny B for uh sending the the clip.

[00:14:14]Yeah, thank you. Thank you to John and Elena.

[00:14:34]Uh >> William, I think you're breaking up on my end.

[00:14:37]Yeah. All my enemies fell.

[00:14:38]>> Yeah. Yeah. My connection was pretty bad there. Yeah, my connection was pretty bad. I I'm I'm uh I'm in and out. Uh it was pretty bad. How about there?

[00:14:47]>> Okay, that's better.

[00:14:51]>> Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

[00:14:55]All right. Let's continue then.

[00:14:59]Okay. Yeah. Well, that's it. That's the two slides. I think that pretty much seals seals the deal.

[00:15:09]I love the complutencium polygot and the glossia and there's just so much you could say about it.

[00:15:16]>> Yeah. Can you also share my slides uh limb? Yeah. So here's again the the preface. Uh what's interesting guys is [clears throat and cough] that there is actually no mention of the books [laughter] and what it's really highlighted here is that you know some of them have this Hebrew counterpart and some of them don't have the Hebrew counterpart and I think of course what it really means is that since we're talking about the Wgate here which as you said Gary that you know Wgate that's in the That's what you have to focus on in the complication polygot. That's Christ, right? So naturally, he's going to he's going to uh allude to Jerome because he's the translator of the Latin Bible, right?

[00:16:08]He's he's the master of the Vulgate. So it's very necessary for for um Zanis to actually give you this uh explanation why there is no Hebrew you know for these uh books which do exist only in Latin and Greek right so uh so he says but there are books outside the canon which the church has received more for the edification of the people than for author authoritative confirmation of ecclesi called dogmas but they have Greek writing but with a double Latin translation one blessed Jerome the other word for word interlinear just as the others and actually it's not odd that Ed Gallagher who says actually I don't find that he actually names the books that he thus excludes from the cannon nor do I find that that he names the books that he accepts only classifying the canonical old testament as pentituke prophets and heographa So and by the way just for the information and what is going on beh uh at the background of this translation the majority of the people if not all of them were actually Jewish converts [laughter] who were working on the competence in polyglot so of course there's a kind of a you know [clears throat] leaning or some kind of background to this uh of of really focusing on on the Hebrew here. So you got Alfonso de Zamura who was a convert from Jewish converted Jewish scholar an expert in Talmetic studies you know then you have Alonso de Alcala and Pablo the coronal because you know many think that oh actually it was who put the whole competency of polyglot together which is not true at all. So he was supervising this project but he was not himself actually doing the hard work it seems you know so if you're giving this you know project to you know converts from Judaism and you're really focusing on on the worldgate which comes from the Hebrew and you try to explain why these don't have you know these books do have a Hebrew counterpart these books don't have well of course I mean you will see some illusions to Jerome and the Hebrew tradition. I'm I'm not surprised at all given all this information we know about the competency of polygot. So I just wanted to share these things.

[00:18:49]>> Yeah.

[00:18:51]Are you with us?

[00:18:52]>> Great point.

[00:18:52]>> Oh yeah. Yeah. I'm I'm with you all. I think the audio should be a little bit better now, right?

[00:18:56]>> Yes, it is.

[00:18:57]>> Good. Good. Good.

[00:19:01]>> And I think Wes H then made a followup.

[00:19:05]Uh, >> he did, >> but but these were only comments. I think John B shared these as well.

[00:19:12]>> Okay. Did Did he do a follow-up video?

[00:19:15]>> Uh, just uh just a post. I think it wasn't really a video. He was only posting some things.

[00:19:27]>> And what did was the post and he did?

[00:19:29]Was there anything that he added? Uh, I can I can probably share it just a second till I do that.

[00:19:40]>> And Ari says, "You guys are heretics.

[00:19:42]Submit to the Assyrian Church of the East. They gave you guys a cannon. So submit to the one holy Catholic apostolic church."

[00:19:52]I don't I don't think so. Right, Gary?

[00:19:54]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:19:57]Leave it to Ari to stir the pot.

[00:19:59]>> Yep. the Assyrian church of the east, her homie notorious.

[00:20:07]>> Okay, so this was a followup from Wes.

[00:20:09]He says, "Most people in the comments u are missing the point here. Luther didn't remove books from the Bible and Trent didn't add them before trend and its addition of the anata close. It was always an open conversation. The 66 is what everyone agreed upon. The question was about the apocrypha, a term not invented by but clarified on by Athanasius in his 39th festal letter.

[00:20:42]Any comments, guys?

[00:20:46]>> Okay.

[00:20:48]Sorry, I was fixing my video.

[00:20:51]Comments missing.

[00:20:52]>> Yeah, there's a a little bit to unpack here. There's a lot of errors. Isn't that right, Carrie?

[00:20:58]Yeah, there is uh before Trent its inditions anal clause was always an open conversation.

[00:21:10]Um, no it wasn't uh always in the open conversation uh the 66 book and uh I recently did a video on this channel where I look at it's holy Toledo guys check it out cuz you have first Toledo and fourth Toledo. Uh one was in the uh 400s I believe or 500 I can't remember.

[00:21:31]>> Yeah 400. Yes.

[00:21:32]>> Yeah. 400 and the other one was 633.

[00:21:35]>> Yeah. Interesting enough, they uh the Spanish church uh thought that the parameters of the canon was not up for grabs and you could not reject a book that was of received by the church. And in fact, the uh first council put an anathema on it, anyone adding to it, and the fourth council excommunicated anybody that subtracted from it. So, >> yeah.

[00:22:00]>> So, it wasn't up for grabs. to just you know I think our views kind of distorted because we're we're kind of receiving this information after the fact right because you'll have some monk somewhere let's take uh Nicholas Blur right um >> right >> who is writing a commentary and it gets published at the end of his life and he quotes Jerome or he says something about the Duro cannon there's no one to excommunicate there's no one to discipline and by And it takes years for this to circulate and his opinion to be known, right? So it's kind of like it's hard to censure people after the fact and when these are just private opinions that are showing up in print, you know.

[00:22:43]Um so you don't see the church like going after people because I think there's this time lag, right? Just a natural time lag between individuals coming up with ideas, writing it down, it getting published and or copied, right? because it's before the printing press. Uh it gives the impression that these really aren't strict laws when they are, but we just have these writings that appear in history that diverge from the norm. And uh but yeah, I think first and uh fourth Toledo shows that that's not true. It wasn't up for grabs. Trent wasn't the first to put in an um a first documental one, but not a local one. And um everyone what about the 66 that everyone agreed upon?

[00:23:29]Is that true?

[00:23:29]>> Can I can I just go back for a little bit to the councils of Toledo G? What is the justification? What are they uh you know adhering to? What is their argument?

[00:23:41]>> Why can't you, you know, what is that Catholic cannon? Where are where is the council of Toledo drawing this can from?

[00:23:49]Yeah, it appears that um I'm trying to see if I could bring up the the PowerPoint. I wasn't anticipating this, but uh >> it mentions the councils, right?

[00:23:58]>> Yeah, it's it me I think it's drawing from mainly the Galatian decree pseudoglacius, >> right?

[00:24:06]>> Um but it certainly would jive with you know in uh Popent the first list and also the North African councils. Yeah, absolutely.

[00:24:16]>> Yeah. So, so actually we we know what what Toledo is saying by the Catholic cannon. So, you cannot add to it or subtract from it. Right.

[00:24:25]>> And by the way, just to be specific, it mentions that you cannot you know uh you cannot neglect or or not consider revelation as scripture. But that applies that actually since it says because of the popes and the councils that means you cannot substract anything. It's not just the revelation that was in there, right?

[00:24:48]>> So, so it's pretty obvious and just to clarify even Nicholas of LRA.

[00:24:55]So yes, I mean he he of course pretty much uh echoes what Jerome says but he does differ from Jerome because for example when it comes to Baroo >> he clearly says that uh Baroo was part of Jeremiah >> uh for the Hebrews. That's very that's pretty clear in in his in his preface to Baroo >> and that's difference.

[00:25:22]>> Yeah. and and I went into the very famous you know prophetical verse in Baroo uh chapter 338 I believe am I am I correct >> so he's that is a prophecy about Christ so how can Baroo not be scripture for Nicholas so again you don't see a perfect match with with Jerome there >> and so >> didn't he didn't he interpret that as referring to the incarnation or am I not correct there >> Nicholas >> yes He he fed out says that's a prophecy about Christ.

[00:25:54]>> Yes. Yeah. Yeah. No doubt. So that that that's a clear departure right there.

[00:26:00]>> It is. It is certainly. And moreover, even though he says he's going to omit for the present, you know, Judith Tobid and the Mcabes, but he says even though these are like divine, like these are true histories. So there's no error in them. So that's not really, you know, what Protestants would say today.

[00:26:23]So even if you go all to all these guys, you always stumble upon some problems, you know.

[00:26:30]>> Yeah. Yeah. William, can you share my uh I put a PowerPoint up there.

[00:26:35]>> So you can get the full story, guys, if you watch my Holy Toledo um video. Here's the first Toledo in 400 Canon 12. sometimes is number 13. If anyone should say or believe that there is another scripture, then that which the Catholic Church accepts and believes to be held as authoritative or has venerated, let them be anathema. Anathema said, so there's anathema attached to anyone who adds. Now, this is against the Priscilianist, which is a Gnostic sect that was adding some of their own books.

[00:27:10]Now you have to ask yourself in 400 what were how do you know which books the church receives and venerates North African councils precede it right because uh% the first is 405 >> yep a thousand% great great point >> or or dammesus right so notice so there's anathema at year 400 and anyone uh that adds it which kind of that's pretty much goes along the line of north African councils because uh North African councils weren't really stip so much to stipulate what was canonical but their purpose was to exclude books that were trying to be added to the canon. Right? So it's it really does align well with the North African councils. Then here's fourth council of Toledo in 633 canon 17 concerning the books book of the apocalypse or book of revelation to be received by all. So here we have some people in Spain refusing to admit revelation into the canon which of course was affirmed in North African councils. Pope Innocent, Clacius, uh Dammesus and it says the authority of many councils and sonatal decrees of the Holy Roman pellets prescribe the book of the apocalypse is by John the Evangelist and have determined that it must be received among the divine books. So clearly it's hearkening from the North African councils and because they are very many and do not accept its authority and disdain to preach it in the church of God. If anyone now on on either does not receive it or fails to preach it in the church during the time of the masses from Easter to Pentecost, they shall face the sentence of excommunication. So it's not uh the censure of uh anathema, but they will be excommunicated if they fail to affirm revelation.

[00:29:09]>> Now I know why you called it holy Toledo Gary. [laughter] >> Yeah, [snorts] there you go.

[00:29:16]>> Exactly. So So uh Dr. Huff, if you're watching this, you're completely wrong.

[00:29:22]It wasn't up for grabs and anybody can have any opinion what they want, you know, until Trent.

[00:29:28]This was already in the books in church law, right? I mean, councils were already dropping anathemas and excommunicating people that didn't adhere to the North African councils and the papal decrees because that was part of the law of the church. Like I said, it's kind of an artifact of history. We don't see people, you know, getting censured right away because there's that long delay between them formulating their beliefs, making it public, getting published, the church becoming aware of their belief. You know, that's probably well after their death. So, usually you don't see very much actions. But here in the Toledo councils, since it's local, you know, they are reacting and they're acting with anathema and excommunication. So, seems like it's pretty much in the books, the cannon.

[00:30:16]>> Yeah. And and catch that he says since it was determined, you know, it's it's case closed, guys. You know, >> y >> the cannon is there, you know. It's not up for grabs >> and prescribed. Yeah.

[00:30:29]>> Dr. Wes Hoff, if you're watching this, just let you know this is not uh Toledo, Ohio. Okay? This is the same This is the same Toledo in Spain where you have Zimez. [laughter] So if you even if you're going to say, "Well, that's just the local council."

[00:30:46]Well, that binds the people in Toledo, guys. That's the council of their own region.

[00:30:53]>> Oh, that's a good point. In fact, let me I'll double down on that, Dr. David. Uh the fourth Toledo was incorporated into Oh, I don't have the updated. Oh, here it is. Collectio Hispania uh incorporates Fort Toledo and I imagine also first Toledo into the code of canon law for Spain.

[00:31:15]So since the 7th century it was part of the code of canon law in Spain.

[00:31:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, and and that's that's another reason why, you know, I I don't really buy this um apologetical move that oh, Zan is, you know, rejected the inspiration of these things. That's rubbish. First, you demonstrated Gary from his own work, you know, which he was supervising that Mcabes for him that's divine history very clearly. So, the purpose of the preface is something different. It's really not highlighting Jerome for you know saying that oh these books are not inspired that would that would be completely against his own own faith own religion own candle and everything else so I just don't really buy that.

[00:32:05]>> Yeah, great point there. Really really good point. And I got a little little bit confused. I didn't notice that Elena had changed her name. I like that Elena you got you got your name in Greek now.

[00:32:15]Little flower and I agree. We'll we'll stick with notorious enemies with uh the church. There's no doubt about that. Um and avoid history. Yes, we'll do that.

[00:32:26]We will once I am back home and I don't have a breaking, you know, internet breaking up and I have stable internet.

[00:32:32]We definitely have to do that. Guys, what do you all think?

[00:32:36]>> Do his onehour lecture at some point.

[00:32:38]>> Yeah, there's a there there's a lecture he put out recently. I didn't watch it.

[00:32:43]I mean, start it. But I don't know.

[00:32:47]>> Does it touch on a cannon? Does >> I think it does. I think >> I believe it does. I believe it does.

[00:32:53]And we will definitely do that. If you, the audience, want that, we'll do that.

[00:32:56]And thank you all for your support. We thank you greatly. We're able to do this work because of you all support. We thank you a ton. And AB says, "Love this team. We love you, brother." Thank you, brother.

[00:33:09]>> Absolutely.

[00:33:13]Uh if you guys uh want to go back to that post he did >> uh let's see >> which I'm sharing right now. William if you can pull it up.

[00:33:25]>> So what do you think? What do you think?

[00:33:27]What was it really Athanasius who clarified the apocrypha? [laughter] Does does is Athanasius's you know apocrypha in line what he thinks about the apocrypha?

[00:33:42]Yeah. Yeah. Well, actually, you know, David, before we do that, let's do the the beginning of the sentence.

[00:33:47]>> The 66 is what everybody agreed upon. Is that true? Everybody antiquity held to 66 books.

[00:33:54]>> Certainly not.

[00:33:56]>> No.

[00:33:58]Absurd. Totally absurd.

[00:34:01]>> Yeah, that is crazy, guys. Well, first, Esther. There is all sorts of problems with people not accepting Esther both in Judaism and well I I don't know I I think the Christians accepted Esther but it does show up uh missing or is omitted in some list but there's you have people like you were mentioning Theodore Mopsia right had problems with chronicles and >> churches >> yeah I mean um and then you have the New Testament because he says 66 not the 39 right >> so it of course famously revelation in in Hebrews, right? I mean, we just saw in Toledo, Spain >> that they actually had to place excommunicate anyone that would refuse to ascend to revelation. Obviously, it wasn't accepted by everybody. So, that's that black blanket statement there is uh really needs qualification, but I it was that was so glaring to me. I wanted to address that first. And yeah, so let's go on to Athanasius. If you want to maybe just clarify your point one more time.

[00:35:06]>> Yeah, because we know that Athanasius gives a you know the canonical books those that are read and then the Apocrypha which should be avoided altogether. These are dangerous books forgeries basically made by heretics.

[00:35:20]You know I'm not sure if Dr. Huff would say, well, you know, the dudro cannon would fall in this into this category. Very clearly not because cuz for Athanasius himself, at least at least Wes Huff would have to admit that Athanasius is reading and quoting these books. So, it cannot possibly be in the third category. And I think everybody agrees.

[00:35:51]And by the way, like uh all or almost all of the doodro cannon uh is listed in the second tier, not in the third.

[00:36:02]>> So that's pretty obvious.

[00:36:03]>> What distinguishes it from the apocrypha. Yeah. Right.

[00:36:07]>> Because he says that the apocrypha is not even named. And here he's prescribing it to be read to those who are coming into the church. So obviously it's not part of the apocrypha. He actually distinguishes it from it. So if there's any kind of ambiguity that's being clarified, uh, it would be that these books definitely aren't apocrypha and aren't to be rejected.

[00:36:28]>> Right.

[00:36:28]>> Right. Right. And I'm not even sure. So maybe Wesop might say, well, the word apocrypha was actually, you know, invented by Ethanius. That is all I'm saying. But even that's not true because the word apocryph already [laughter] >> used in the second century by by I think irony and other guys know saying the same stuff what ethanation is saying like the word apocrypha always meant uh in the ancient church I mean at least up until the 4th century up until Jerome it always meant something heretical dangerous you know forged you know made up by the enemies of the church. Not until Jerome, he's the really first guy who says, "No, no, these books are for edification, you know, [laughter] >> exactly." Yeah. It's >> the canon is the the problem with uh what exactly does canon mean for Athanasius?

[00:37:28]>> That is a flatout lie. Will told me regular Coke is superior. [laughter] That is a flatout lie, man. That would be complete heresy there, guys. All right, that's heresy there. BB Lou, God bless you. Thank you for your support, my friend. Look at that, guys. Look at that. Were we all aware of that?

[00:37:48]>> 4K views and it's all about the Canon.

[00:37:51]Yeah. Yeah. Thanks, Avoid History.

[00:37:55]Um, >> but that's gonna that that will have to be a multiple part certainly because one hour is pretty long.

[00:38:02]>> Yeah. Is that 4 400k? Uh, is that is this post or is this the one-hour lecture?

[00:38:09]>> I think the one-hour lecture means >> Okay. Well, yeah. I mean, we got to do it then. I mean, not because of the views, but if he's going to do a lecture, I think we owe him respect to tear him limb from limb if he's going to be like this.

[00:38:23]>> No, absolutely. There's no doubt about that. And uh uh yeah, and and Weshoff is like the Aquinus of our time.

[00:38:32][laughter] to take away all of the incredible intellectual knowledge of Aquinus and then maybe we can say that. But [laughter] I love you BBoo. Thank you for your support. And anybody else, you guys rock. Whatever questions you all may have, canon related or really anything you can send your questions. It doesn't just have to be about Wes Huff, guys. But uh we're we're we're picking on it because, you know, he's putting forth really bad arguments. Isn't that right, guys?

[00:39:02]Oh yeah, this is a low hanging fruit.

[00:39:04]Yeah, >> sorry I talked on you.

[00:39:10]Uh, by the way, just to give uh guys a heads up, we're going to try to do a live stream tomorrow. We're going to look at another person that should know better. Actually, somebody that's kind of in the same field as Wesoff and his opinions on the Duro Cannon. And um I I'm going to have a back brace on and uh take some Tylenol before the show because I have a feeling we're going to be picking up a lot of lowhanging fruit.

[00:39:36]>> Is it that low hanging? It's that low low hanging. Eh, >> it is. It is. That's the Dr. Laneir video. And maybe David, you could prescribe a a painkiller for me.

[00:39:49][laughter] >> [gasps] >> Well, if you want a strong one, then certainly only for with prescription with prescription. So, >> yeah.

[00:39:58]>> Yeah. Because I think I might need it.

[00:40:00]>> But but be careful cuz you know with morphine you can overdose yourself. So >> Oh, yeah. Sure.

[00:40:07][laughter] >> Yeah. See, [clears throat] see folks, these arguments are so bad. They're driving the apocrypha apocalypse scene to drug use [laughter] >> because we just can't can't stand picking up all this lowhanging fruit all day.

[00:40:20]>> Well, the the this lowhanging fruit is pretty bad, I got to say, guys. Really really bad.

[00:40:26]>> Yeah. Yeah. This is just a foretaste of tomorrow's program.

[00:40:31]>> Yeah. It's going to be fun.

[00:40:32]>> Absolutely.

[00:40:33]>> And there's nothing new under the sun here that we're seeing from Wes. The same old arguments that have been repeated. And really to be honest, guys, the arguments that have been refuted many times over, I mean, he's got to be aware that they've been refuted.

[00:40:47]>> Yeah. Yeah. He's just, you know, Wes, if you're watching, you are a very smart guy, very articulate, very learned for your age, especially.

[00:40:58]Stay in your lane. Don't go out of your lane because this is definitely not in your lane and you're just stepping on landmines and you don't even know it.

[00:41:07]speaking about you know uh can you share my screen William there's >> of course >> there's a second snapshot there [laughter] you you want to read it or or me >> yeah you guys go ahead and read it because of my >> so prior to the council of Trent in 1545 there was no such thing Oh sorry is this that was >> yeah that's the original one >> oh that's the original one. Okay. I guess I'm I downloaded the >> You were trying to upload another one.

[00:41:43]>> Uh I'm going to download Yeah. Just a second.

[00:41:48]>> Sure. Sure.

[00:41:49]>> Just a second.

[00:41:51]>> Take your time.

[00:41:53]>> Yeah. Actually, that comment that we just made about everybody agreeing on the 66, it says show more. So, I have a feeling that there is.

[00:42:02]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:42:03]I Brona 100cc of oxy stat [laughter] by steps Brona, we love you, man.

[00:42:11]Audience, thank you all for your support. And hey, this this these bad arguments even got Elena to change your name. She put her name in Greek. I got to say, guys, you got Elena saying, "Man, I gota I gotta find something interesting to do because these are terrible arguments. They're pretty bad, guys."

[00:42:30]>> Yeah.

[00:42:34]Um, David's searching for that. Um, >> yeah, I I cannot find it. So, >> yeah, it's amazing. Um, and that's what we're going to see tomorrow, too, is another person with a doctorate. Very learned, especially in manuscript, evidence, that type of thing. He's on a a podcast and the podcaster is talking about the cannon and you can see visibly like he's uncomfortable and he's just he's spitting out all sorts of horrible information. So that's going to be a lot of fun.

[00:43:02]>> So apparently apparently having a doctorate doesn't mean that you're free from error. Apparently having a doctorate doesn't mean you're perfect, I guess.

[00:43:10]>> Yeah. It doesn't convey omni omniscience, does it?

[00:43:14]>> No, not at all.

[00:43:15]>> Yeah.

[00:43:18]>> All right. I'm going to magnify this. So he continues that so so as the nations in his 39 festival letter, we we broke this down. And then he says, "If the 73 cannon was, as many in the comments to my OP want to reductionalistically claim, a settled issue going back centuries, then you wouldn't have the Jeromes, Athanasiuses, Syrials, Gregory the Great, Seman, and Cadetans of the world all openly discussing and disagreeing with various dudonicals and their inclusion versus exclusion as inspired canon. These aren't randoms.

[00:44:02]They're saints, bishops, popes, cardinals, and doctors of the church.

[00:44:08]It's interesting he uses the plurals for the names to suggest that there's this great multitude, [laughter] you know, when actually it's pretty much these except for maybe a couple more like Ailio and uh Gregor Nanzenis.

[00:44:24]Uh, Gregory the Great.

[00:44:27][laughter] I think that's a mistake, isn't it?

[00:44:31]>> Yeah.

[00:44:31]>> No. Or Gregory. No, Gregory the Great is the the one qualification on McBaes, right?

[00:44:38]>> Yeah.

[00:44:39]>> Yeah. Um, well, Dr. Huff, first uh Yeah. The thing is you have to treat these on a case-byase basis. And when you do that, you find out that none of them are doing what you're accusing them of doing. And I think the biggest mistake you make here is their inclusion versus exclusion as inspired canon. Well, some of these folks didn't use canon because the word wasn't coined yet. Like Athanasius is the first to coin the word. The other thing is none of them, neither Jerome nor Athanasius, no serial, nor Gregory the Great, nor Zimenez, nor Kadson rejected them as inspired scripture.

[00:45:19]>> None of them did.

[00:45:19]>> None of them did. None of them. And not even if you toss it in Anyiloius are we going to grant that then not even Anyas would work for you.

[00:45:26]>> Yeah. Or Gregory and Nanzenis or Epipanius Rufinus. None of them do.

[00:45:31]Right. Um or origin. And you know on top of that and how do we know that they believe it to be inspired scripture?

[00:45:40]Because they use it to confirm doctrine.

[00:45:42]The very thing that you said Zmenus says they can't do they do. They confirm doctrine.

[00:45:49]So it's not just that they quote it.

[00:45:51]It's not like because they call it scripture because you know you could call all sorts of things scripture but it uses it to bear theological weight to determine doctrine just like Martin Luther did before he flip-flopped on it.

[00:46:05]So >> uh >> and he brutally flip-flopped. Brutally flip-flopped.

[00:46:10]>> Exactly.

[00:46:12]U Yeah. David, any any further comments on this?

[00:46:16]>> Yeah, I I think you nailed it. Yeah, both both guys. I mean, yeah, [laughter] >> I love this one. Look at this. Wes off is a great student of James White. Now, I I gotta say, what does that say? St. Francis, baby toe. What does that say?

[00:46:32]Well, that I think that tells you everything, doesn't it?

[00:46:37]>> Yeah, it sums it up pretty much.

[00:46:40]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:46:40]>> Yeah. It's precisely the same thing. Of course, I would like to, you know, discuss these topics with Wes Huff because guys, like don't get me wrong. I would like to have him here on the channel and ask him how does he interpret Athanasius's sentence when he says, you know, Sierra is the word of the Holy Spirit just as Psalms is like my favorite quotation from Athanasius.

[00:47:07]>> Yeah.

[00:47:08]>> So, is it or is it not the word of the Holy Spirit according to Athanasius, you know? when he says it is, you know.

[00:47:16]>> Yeah. Yeah. That's the big big big problem.

[00:47:21]>> Right. And >> but I don't think he'd be willing to have that dialogue. I really don't think he would.

[00:47:25]>> I don't think he'd be willing to.

[00:47:28]>> You're right, William. I think he would just uh And of course, even though this channel got now like 15.4K, I'm actually surprised, guys.

[00:47:41]>> But even 15.4 four I would not I think would not be enough for Wes Huff's you know ego.

[00:47:48]>> Yeah. Nor nor if you combine nor if you combine what we have in Petristic Pillars and and and there he'd probably still think it was too little. He'd probably want uh 200k. But the fact of the matter is it doesn't matter. We'll continue trucking along and we'll continue refuting him uh no matter what.

[00:48:04]We'll continue doing it.

[00:48:06]>> Isn't that right, guys?

[00:48:08]>> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. So, uh, yeah, he's gota he's got to stay in his lane.

[00:48:16]>> And so, here's our favorite argument, guys. Council of Trent. I think a lot of people would be surprised to hear how close the vote on their inclusion in an official list attached to an anathema at Trent.

[00:48:32]>> Is this what is this what Huff is saying?

[00:48:34]>> Yeah, this is his followup.

[00:48:37]>> Gosh. Wow.

[00:48:40]At the council of trend, considerable debate took place on whether just a minute uh on whether where is it? Uh a distinction should be made between two classes of books canonical and apocryphal. Wow. Apocryphal. [gasps] >> Wow. or whether three classes should be identified. A knowledge of a knowledge books, the disputed books of the New Testament, later generally received and the Apocrypha of the Old Testament.

[00:49:18]Finally on 8th of April 1546 by a vote of 24- 15 with 16 abstensions the council issued a decree the canonis scriptoris in which for the first time in the history of the church the question of the contents of the bible was made an absolute absolute article of faith and conferred by an anathema.

[00:49:46]All right, guys. Let's rock.

[00:49:50]>> Wow. [laughter] >> Well, David, once you start off or or William, I've been hogging the time.

[00:49:56]>> Yeah, my back my back is going to be sore by the time we're done here, guys.

[00:50:02]>> Wow.

[00:50:02]>> I don't know. Did Did they like debate, you know, two classes of books, canonical and apocryphal? Like, is it really the word trend used for the dudro canonical books? No.

[00:50:16]>> Yeah, that's true. Yeah, good point.

[00:50:18]Now, there were some fathers that did want to have a distinction like Sarah Pando, >> right? Right.

[00:50:23]>> And others, right? And sir Sarapo, I don't think called it Apocrypha if I remember. He's authentic and >> I don't remember but >> uh what is it? Feday's uh Feday's Forma and Feday's Mela I think it was.

[00:50:42]>> Yeah. Come on. Come on Feday and come on Mortm I Yeah, that's it. That's it.

[00:50:46]Right. Right. Yeah. So, even like Sarapo didn't argue what he's saying here about different classes of books.

[00:50:52]>> Sure.

[00:50:52]>> And uh if you see his argumentation in his treaties, there's no way the council would ever sign on to such a crazy document. Um and uh so yeah, I mean different views were put out at the council. It was a minority view and that uh some people persisted even though it was already agreed upon initially that you know this is the whole thing like what was the purpose of the fourth session of Trent? It was to establish the sources upon which all the other decrees of Trent's going to rest upon.

[00:51:24]In other words, what material can be used to confirm doctrine? Right?

[00:51:29]So when they agreed to adopt the the the canon as given at the ecumenical council of Florence a few hundred years ago.

[00:51:35]>> Right. Right. Yep.

[00:51:37]>> Those are the books that are capable of confirming doctrine. So when these ear these bishops that had sympathy for some of the uh humanists of the time, right, uh wanted to put this distinction in, it was always slapped down because it had already been agreed by all the fathers that they're going to adopt Florence.

[00:51:57]Right.

[00:51:57]>> Yeah.

[00:51:58]Yeah, there was no debate to be had on the fact that the Florentine cannon was going to be what was going to be adopted and very clearly the Florentine cannon had the duter cannon and the duder cannon was on par with all the other protoconical books. That was very clear >> and also you know it wasn't just this distinction between the duo canon protocannon it was also a distinction amongst all the books of the Bible like right >> that the gospels would have priority over the other books in the new testament or maybe the dude canononical books in the new testament would be a lower place than some of the others >> and the council fathers said look we're not going to define in a consiliary document that Matthew is more important than to you know Esther is less important than Chronicles, right? I mean, that would be so absurd.

[00:52:46]>> Be ridiculous.

[00:52:47]>> So, it just never gained ground, you know? So, these people did keep bringing them up in different ways, but it was already I mean, once you affirm Florence as and Florence, by the way, defined that these books are inspired, >> right? They're inspired by God >> and therefore canonical even though it doesn't use that word. Um, the it's already done deal. It's already done deal.

[00:53:12]Uh any thoughts >> William or David on the nath of a vote?

[00:53:20]>> David, any particular thoughts? I I don't have anything else to add to that.

[00:53:25]>> Yeah. And and regarding just why Sirondo's distinction was was absolutely nonsense is because Florence clearly says which is it true guys. Right. So from the get-go everybody agreed we have to adopt Florence, right? [laughter] But Florence says that all these books are the are written on the inspiration of God. Right.

[00:53:49]>> So if a book is the word of God, how can you say, you know, well, these can be used for confirming doctrine and these not, you know?

[00:53:56]>> Exactly.

[00:53:58]>> So it's like if you say, you know, all books are apples, you know, but then you're going to say, well, okay, but these you can digest, but those are toxic. How does it make sense? It just doesn't make sense at all.

[00:54:15]>> So this distinction was absolutely absolutely nonsensical from from from Sapondo and and maybe a few others >> and certainly none of the council fathers used the term apocrypha for you know the dudro cannon or or some >> and they very clearly wouldn't. it would uh it would not have been following in line with a Florentine cannon to call them apocrypha wouldn't have been following in line with that. Uh so very clearly uh that was what was on the table to be reiterated. So the idea that they would be called apocryphal is completely ludicrous. Isn't that right?

[00:54:52]>> Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:54:55]>> Yeah. That would not make any sense whatsoever.

[00:54:59]>> No, I like this from BBoo. Let me read it. Yeah. Just got to read that quote from St. Katherine of Sienna. Even if the pope were Satan incarnate, which by the way is always taken completely, as you know very well, brother BBloo, and thank you for your support, my friend, is always taken completely out of context and is a mishmash, is a ripping from other commentaries and, you know, chopping up in bits and putting together completely ripped out of context there.

[00:55:32]Yeah. Yeah. Well, regarding the vote, uh, this is basically the same thing that Clues made an error on and they are basically I think they're getting both from Bruce Mezer, right? Who made an error who says that this vote kind of u was about the cannon itself, [clears throat] what books are canonical and what books are not canonical.

[00:55:58]Whereas the the f vote he is presenting was whether an anathema should be attached to the decree or not. Isn't it true guys?

[00:56:07]>> Yeah. Yeah. We um I'm bringing up a slide too. Um it's just processing right now. Uh yeah that's true. Now to put this in context guys it wasn't like this was a standalone vote. This is part of Correct me if I'm wrong, David and William, but that was part of that capita disputatum or something.

[00:56:28]>> Yes.

[00:56:28]>> Where do >> Yeah. They they put out a schema like a rough draft of the decree. The fathers said, "I want to change this. I want to change that." And there was many different ideas on the floor. So that what they did was the framers gave a list of things. What do you want? What you don't want in the decree? And this was just one bullet point among many was the anathema and even like how the anathema should be phrased and things like that. So it it seems like this is a momentous occasion when actually it's just the the schema had it. They just wanted to make sure that you want it in there. Um yeah. So here's my thing. I just want to bring up the chart. By the way guys, uh David and William, I got to give you an updated version because I actually added even more.

[00:57:14]>> I love that you added more. Really?

[00:57:16]>> Yeah. Sorry, I gotta flip through this because >> No, no, go ahead. And while you do that, I want to give BB Lou a shout out. Uh, God bless you, my friend. Thank you. And [laughter] he says, >> go, "Where does Wesuff have the keys and the power into buying Louis?" [laughter] I love that one, man. I I I don't know, man. What do you think about that, David? I don't know.

[00:57:38]>> Yeah. Uh, very good. I I like this.

[00:57:41]Yeah. Very ironic. Well, maybe he's an ex alter boy because that confers the gift of infallibility apparently.

[00:57:50]Um, okay. That joke kind of felt bad on the panel.

[00:57:55]>> No, no, no, no. I I was I was trying to make sure my connection was okay. That's why you able to hear me? Okay. My connection stable now?

[00:58:01]>> Yep.

[00:58:03]Council, good.

[00:58:05]>> Yeah, it's true. I mean, it's like uh he's kind of determining this. It's kind of funny, but I just want, you know, this graph I give you can give you like a visual view of the canon in church legislation, right? So, you have the African code that's accepted in the east given quas ecumenical status through uh >> uh Constantinople quintessex and nika 2, right? So, you have that as part of the eastern west legislation. Of course, you have the first council of Toledo. The orange stuff is uh councils. The green is papal decrees.

[00:58:42]The blue, light blue is ecumenical councils. And then the purple are codes of canon law. And you notice here how all of these decrees and uh councils are incorporated into canon law. And that's important because this is the law of the church, right? This is the the that the laws that regulate the things that we hold and believe as Catholics and what you can and cannot do. So you can see here you have uh various collectios, right? So we have in in France, southern France, Northern France, uh Italy, Northern Italy, Spain, all over the place. All these codes of canon law have it on the books that the canon of scripture is this right. You have ecumenical councils given quas uh ecumenical status to local councils of Carthage and Hippo. Uh you have papal decrees, decred letters, right? Like Pope Innocent the 1 is decred letter which means somebody wrote to the Pope asking for judgment on an issue and the pope is responding and that becomes law in the west. So innocent responds with the canon that's given at the North African council. So that's the cred letter that becomes part of the books.

[01:00:01]In fact, Nicholas, if you look on the left, excuse me, the right hand column in green, Nicholas of 862, actually says that innocent the first the credle letter is the law of the church. Even if it's not part of canon law, it is basically a definitive pronouncement, right? And then of course you have the uh council of Florence that speaks to the inspiration of these books. So east and west agree on the issue, right? So when Trent comes on, if is it really possible that that the anathema is really a big step forward? I mean this has been on the book since the fourth century or third century or excuse me fifth century. Um this is part of the code of canon law throughout the west and also part of the east through to low right. Um this is agreed upon by an ecumenical council >> and uh so there was a debate do we even need to put an anathema on this and actually one of the names that came up was Kadetin that people you know people in the church >> yeah were uh were denying this and Kadetin was somebody that was named at the council >> and that was kind of the tipping point [clears throat] >> but this really isn't that momentous especially when you consider like I pointed out first council of Toledo and Fort Toledo already I mean either had Naomar excommunicated people that desissented from the cannon and that's in 4633 >> which is indicative that the cannon was not open for debate anymore. The cannon was uh not merely only a local issue either if you see that happening there at Toledo very clearly uh it isn't a matter of being able to argue the status of these duteric canonical books.

[01:01:49]>> Yeah. Yeah, >> that's true.

[01:01:51]>> Yeah. Yeah. So, um I So, you know, when they try to pull out the Trent card and the vote on the the UNMA, just keep that in mind, right? Keep this body of information here in your mind because when you put that in perspective, it's like for the Council of Trent to add NaMa was kind of not as momentous as Protestants make it out, right?

[01:02:19]Okay. So that's all I have to say on that.

[01:02:22]>> I I'm going to agree with BB Lou is inferior to Frank Turka. BB Lou that is that's that's say a whole lot.

[01:02:32]They're both pretty bad. Both are really really bad. But I guess yeah, I guess even Frank Turk's arguments which on the cannon were really atrocious you know. Um yeah, I got to say they're they're both pretty bad. Isn't that right, guys? They've both put forth terrible canon arguments.

[01:02:51]>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely.

[01:02:54][snorts] >> Yeah. But, you know, I can I can forgive Turk for making these blunders, but you know, Wes being such a famous scholar, that's pretty shame.

[01:03:07]>> Yeah, >> that's a good point. That is a point that I I really want to emphasize that Wes Huff is a scholar. Now very clearly this is not his area at all of expertise. He he makes blender after blender but scholars should be held to a higher standard overall. Isn't that right guys?

[01:03:27]>> Indeed.

[01:03:28]>> Yeah. Yeah. Andy's comments kind of funny too is you know he makes these points but the but he would descent from them anyway. Doesn't matter if there was if Nika itself put an anathema and proclaimed this to be canon. He wouldn't feel bombed by that. So why is he making such a big deal about these the councils? Right.

[01:03:47]>> Right. [snorts] Right. Good point there. And BBloo shout out. Thank you for the support. Legend Will's hair was assumed into heaven.

[01:03:55]Inner and outer roots. [laughter] It's all gone, man. BBO, it ain't coming back, man. It's all gone, man. you know, uh, you know, at least I got to go tee BBoo. Don't be a hater. I can see in that photo BB's got a big old nice full head of hair, man. So, he's a total hater.

[01:04:18]>> Yeah. And finally, guys, I just always like to bring this up like if Wes thinks that, you know, if he can point a few guys who, you know, are parotting Jerome's prefaces, that means the cannon is open. Then what is he going to do with people who are denying some doctrines after ecumenical councils are basically nailing down doctrines such as papal infallibility, transubstantiation and so on and attaching anata to these. And yet you have people here and there from time to time, you know, discussing at least or disputing this cuz I know some of the, you know, uh, people from the circle of Yan Hos were like, hm, so is transubstantiation true? So they, you know, wrote some track dates.

[01:05:16]>> Yeah. afterwards someone read it and as you said Gary you know it wasn't like like one day you write down this track date and the other day you are burden at the stake because you're a heretic that's not how you know things worked back then so when I think it was Yi from college in Czecha back then he like wrote attracted that well I don't think trap transubstantiation is true it's rather consubstantiation and it was long after uh you know the letter and council >> right >> uh and so like some people were reading this and saying that's not that's not kosher you know we we need to report this to Rome so this was reported in Rome so Rome read it you know it was like discussed okay whe whether it's heretical or not so afterwards you know this guy was called out he had to make a correction and it all took years and years and years, you know, [laughter] >> right?

[01:06:17]>> So, you know, a guy coming up with his own ideas doesn't mean that there are not that things are not settled already.

[01:06:27]>> Yeah. And there's a bit of due diplicity also. I have to use that word.

[01:06:31]>> I love that. I love that duderoity >> because would Wes Huff say the New Testament is up for grabs because people were denying books of the New Testament, including Luther. Right.

[01:06:41]>> Yeah. Right. So, are we to infer that like up to that point anybody could have any New Testament they wanted?

[01:06:48]>> Yeah.

[01:06:48]>> I mean, he flat out denigrates the apocalypse, says it doesn't even sound like it came from the pen of an apostle.

[01:06:56]I mean, so yeah, the New Testament up for grabs. This is the kind of, as you point out, due to duplicity, this is the kind of, forgive me for being blunt, guys, the kind of hypocrisy that really is is really his stomach turnurning.

[01:07:08]>> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sure he would defend the canon of the New Testament and he would do it very very much like it's in the books and it's done with and >> if anything people were just disputing on authorship of a couple of books >> and >> and even with respect to the Old Testament we know that Jews were discussing the Old Testament right so like Esther Song of Songs Ecclesiastes Ezekiel and so on and so forth so I'm pretty convinced that West Hub would say no the Old Testament cannon was closed, you know, at least in the first century because of Josephus or something like that, you know, but then you have these discussions in the Mishna and the Talmud and and as you said, due to the draw duplicity, so since these people are rejecting these books, why don't you admit there was an open cannon?

[01:08:01]>> Right. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. And I don't think you would go for that. When it comes to the Old Testament, it's like, well, you know, different strokes for different folks.

[01:08:12]>> Yeah. I want to remind the audience, we've pinned the link on both channels.

[01:08:16]If you all have any questions, you come back here and let us know on the right hand side, what is your faith in your question, and we will bring you up. You just want to make sure you're not a troll. But if you don't want to come back here, no worries. You can send your question in. It can be in any topic, anything you have in your mind. Just not about what happened to my hair. Don't ask about whether my hair was assumed or not. Any other topic except for that.

[01:08:38][laughter] >> That's right.

[01:08:42]>> That the hair has been gone for a bit of a minute there. Oh my goodness. Oh my goodness. Do I Do I Do I have to bring that? I don't have to bring that up.

[01:08:51]Look at this guy here. [laughter] >> That's very cool.

[01:08:57]Was Was that in you started you started apologetics, Gary? Uh, William, sorry.

[01:09:04]>> What was that? What was the question, brother?

[01:09:06]>> Was that in the days you you started with apologetics?

[01:09:11]>> Oh, man. I It's been at least 18 years.

[01:09:15]I I say about 18 years at least.

[01:09:17]>> Wow.

[01:09:19]>> Yeah, it's been it's been a bit of a minute.

[01:09:22]>> What a hater you are, Brona. [laughter] What a hater you are, Brona. You're lucky I brought that up, Brona. What a hater, man.

[01:09:32]All right, guys. Uh, sorry, but I have to go.

[01:09:36]>> Okay, >> but but see you see you again soon.

[01:09:39]>> Yeah.

[01:09:39]>> Hey, brother. It was great talking to you, David. God bless you, my friend.

[01:09:42]We'll talk to you soon, brother.

[01:09:43]>> God bless you, guys.

[01:09:45]>> Take care, brother.

[01:09:47]>> Now, for the rest of the people, they've got us a little bit longer. How long do you have, Gary?

[01:09:52]>> Uh, probably about 20 more minutes, then I got a book as well.

[01:09:56]>> All right. All right. So, audience, any questions you all have, send them in. We will tackle them. Now is your time to send them in. Uh, and as long as my audio I don't need video. As long as my audio holds up, we'll be here. Now, we'll be tackling anything you have. It doesn't have to be on West Huff. You We know you might be rolling your eyes like, man, a whole hour of Wes Huff.

[01:10:16]Anything you have on your minds. And I think we have Bingo Tony back here.

[01:10:21]>> Cool.

[01:10:21]>> Bingo Tony. How you doing, brother? You able to hear us?

[01:10:24]>> Yes.

[01:10:27]What's up? What's on your mind right now?

[01:10:29]>> I'm doing fine. I was hoping I could comment something about Wes Hoff. What was he what was we he arguing about the digital cannon [snorts] that you know some historical figures disputed the digital cannon there for 66.

[01:10:42]>> Yeah, basically pretty much in a nutshell.

[01:10:47]>> I mean it's it's really the classic when you see with this kinds of you know quasi apologetics. Oh, here's a figure that doubted the digital cannon and here's another one and here's another one. Therefore, 66 books or something. You don't do this kind of thing. That's not how you reach a 66 book cannon.

[01:11:07]>> Yeah, exactly. And like I said, you know, protocononical books were doubted by some like the Marcenites, right? They even rejected the Gospels except for an adulterated version of Luke.

[01:11:21]So I mean even even they can be rejected by some. So the fact that these things are doubted or rejected by individuals really doesn't matter much.

[01:11:32]And uh but according to him you know that's that's the deciding figure because the protocan's never never doubted but dudo cannon. Yeah boy. It's been doubted over and over again apparently.

[01:11:46]>> Yeah it's quite bizarre with these kinds of apologies. It's really mundane, really cliche at this point.

[01:11:54]>> Yeah, >> it's pretty bad. Yeah. No, there's no doubt about it. It's pretty pretty bad.

[01:11:58]It's just uh >> it's low level. It's pretty bad.

[01:12:06]God bless you. Uh Bible Catholic, God bless you. I believe that is William 2.0. William Hemsworth, how you doing, brother? He said, "Just got done teaching my last class of the day and finally able to tune in." God bless you.

[01:12:18]God bless you, my friend. Thank you for being a member. And I do want to thank all of you all, those that are members, those that have sent in uh questions.

[01:12:27]You all are tremendous. We are able to do the kind of work we do here because of your support. Thank you for being here, faithful. And thank you for being here as well. Bingo Tony, you got to update that bingo thing, too, man. You gota You're probably gonna have to make another one at this point.

[01:12:45]Wait. So, oh yes, here was Here is something that I wanted to share. It's uh Okay. 21. Who is Wait, wait, wait.

[01:12:55]>> Oh, >> are you guys seeing >> not that one? Okay, >> wait. It's really that one I am showing.

[01:13:07]Sorry, you guys do not know this.

[01:13:20]Sorry, some things were happening. So, if you guys are looking at this, what I'm showing to you and and you chat as well, this is the list of books from the Bible of Sebastian Castillo.

[01:13:34]If you guys do not know who was Sebastian Castillo, basically he was a Protestant humanist who was also an opponent of John Calvin. And here you can see the list and see if there is something that is interesting here.

[01:14:03]What what what are we what exactly are we looking at here?

[01:14:06]>> It's a list of books of the Old Testament of from the French translation of Sebastio Castillo's Bible.

[01:14:15]>> Oh, okay. I see.

[01:14:18]>> What books are you saying?

[01:14:19]>> Interesting.

[01:14:24]>> Yeah. So you have you know Genesis, the Pentatuk, Judges, Ruth, the four books of the Kings, the second books of Chronicles, three books of of Ezarus.

[01:14:35]All right. You have Tobit, Judith, Esther, Job, the Psalms, the Proverbs, Ecclesiastes, the Cantics, this is must be wisdom, ecclesiastic, the wisdom of Sirak. You also have the prophets. And in the book of the prophets, you have the fourth of Ezras, a book of the history of Josephus, the two books of Mcabes, and then another one from Josephus, and then the New Testament ones.

[01:15:13]So I gota ask Mr. West Hier is why did you know Protestant humanist Sebastian Castillo you know add this these so-called a profical books you know Ezra Tobit from this and this into his Bible if you know if everyone agreed on the 66 the good fight Tony is saying what's the date on this Bible uh it's here it's 1555 so about four years before the Geneva Bible Yeah. 16th century.

[01:15:49]>> Okay.

[01:15:52]>> Yeah. Bing Tony, if you could send this to me, I'd appreciate it. Or at least the link if you could send the link to me.

[01:15:58]>> I mean, I have to send >> because I can add that to my presentation on Protestants that >> I mean, I have with me, you know, the the two files of the Bible.

[01:16:11]>> I mean, would you guys want me to share this with me? What? Uh either you can give me the link where he got it from or if you give me a snap of that table.

[01:16:19]>> I got it from Google books because it's not really very easy to find.

[01:16:24]>> Yeah.

[01:16:25]>> And the image of the books I took it from Wikipdia comments from Wikipedia.

[01:16:30]Now let me see if I can you know show it the Are you guys watching?

[01:16:42]>> I'm I'm watching. I'm I'm trying to see what uh uh There we go. Is that a new one?

[01:16:48]>> That's the bingo card.

[01:16:50]I got to bring it up for Tony.

[01:16:53]>> Oh, gotcha. Gotcha. There's the bingo card. I love that.

[01:16:55]>> So, guys, you would want to uh cross off O second column, the medieval author followed the opinion of Jerome for Wesov.

[01:17:08]Okay.

[01:17:10]Um, but that was me sharing it. It wasn't. Um, bingo, Tony.

[01:17:15]>> That's very good.

[01:17:17]>> Are you guys watching?

[01:17:19]>> Yes.

[01:17:19]>> What do you read here?

[01:17:21]>> The Bible.

[01:17:37]I don't speak French, so if my pronunciation is atrocious, you know, there you have it. And this is really interesting because the title of this Bible is the newly translated Bible with the history of after Ezra or I think from Mezas to the Mcabes. So you know this is a Bible that in the title says that it stretches historically to Mcabes. So so Mcabes is also considered an historical book and then you have you know the preface and yada yada and what I find really interesting is that I you know there's also the cross references you know also with the digonical books as far as I'm aware.

[01:18:19]>> Sure.

[01:18:20]>> Sure. Apocrypha.

[01:18:22]There is no mention of Apocrypha in this.

[01:18:27]>> Cool. I'll have to uh I'll have to do a show on that.

[01:18:31]>> Can Yeah, you have to do just remember I took you know this this is the first off of Castillia's Bible. The second all of the these two I took it from Google Books.

[01:18:43]>> Yep.

[01:18:44]>> Yeah. I I got the screenshot but uh I'll have to we'll have to go through it and do the cross references and stuff. This is great.

[01:18:51]>> Yes.

[01:18:51]>> Yeah, we'll definitely do it in the future. Hey, brother. Uh, did you have anything else to share, brother? We appreciate you coming up.

[01:18:57]>> I mean, what else did Wes argue when I was not here for the time being? What are his ideas regarding the cannon?

[01:19:05]>> Pretty much a gist of it. We already pretty much went over the silliness that he said.

[01:19:11]>> Gary, any thoughts?

[01:19:13]>> Uh, what he went over was the complutencium polyglot where he quotes Jerome and he insinuates that therefore there wasn't a fixed Bible and uh he speaks about the anathema of Trent. He speaks about Athanasius and other fathers that held similar views and I think that's pretty much it >> trying to think.

[01:19:38]>> Well, you know I you know I could answer with when what about Augustine? What about Isidor and Innocent the first do not discount as well. Suddenly they stopped coming. You know it's common to see a reply to actually Austinine thought that the book of wisdom was not part of the cannon which is something that is taken out of context of what he is saying >> right >> you know they they took they take a part where he says that you know our friends admit that wisdom is not canonical and then he later August goes to say that wisdom is a divinely received book. I mean it's really selective.

[01:20:15]>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. Yeah. Well, see, they will say, well, you have two different opinions, so it wasn't it there was no decision on it, but really what they're missing is there was concealer uh concealer pronouncements on the canon. So, yeah, you have Jerome, you have Athanasius and so on, but when councils start weighing in on it and it becomes part of the legislation in east and west, then we're dealing with more than just individual opinions. We're dealing with the church as a corporate whole, right?

[01:20:48]>> Oh, yeah.

[01:20:48]>> That has a lot more weight.

[01:20:50]>> Oh, yeah. No doubt about that.

[01:20:52]>> It's not It's not like we see, you know, a church council. At least I am aware of, you know, before, you know, the reformation that says that the seven books and the Greek editions are not part of the kennel or that they are apocrypha and should not be read or something on that level. And the most common reply that I see when we bring up, you know, the castle is, "Oh, but Greek Ezraas, it's the only one that I am aware of, you know, as if >> Oh, little student is here. I have some questions about Sak and the fathers."

[01:21:30]>> Yeah, I think BBoo Boo, thank you for the support, brother. He says that Mcburnian man seems to not be aware of what Aquinus had to say about the Muslims. Vatican 2 and Jews and Muslims remains consistent.

[01:21:45]Yeah, we run into that a lot, don't we, Gary? Where people uh they really don't seem to understand exactly what the church is teaching this particular issue. Uh yeah, no doubt. And Mc Burning Man, if he has any questions and wants to ask us, uh I know Gary, you have you still have a few more minutes, right, before you have to go? Yeah, I have about five more minutes then I gota run.

[01:22:05]>> All righty. Hey, big Tony. Big Tony, we're gonna let you go because we have a few more people. Thank Thank you for coming up, brother. We'll talk to you soon, my friend.

[01:22:12]>> See you later. You too.

[01:22:14]>> God bless you, brother.

[01:22:16]>> Yeah. Uh let me try and see. And if he does have any questions, we want to remind you all on the right hand side, what is your faith? What is your question? And we will bring you up. We're coming to the tail end of the show though, but that comes up a lot, right? The the issue in Vatican 2, Gary, you hear we see that quite often, don't we?

[01:22:37]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's true. And it's usually it's BB uh 28 Lou. Uh you're absolutely right. Read the context. Read the footnotes because you can always, you know, you can quote mine. You can uh quote out context and make things say anything you want it to say.

[01:22:55]>> But you're studying context. And that happens very often. Yeah, that happens when people don't actually read uh they don't read in context and they listen to what other people say as well. They allow what other people say to influence them. Well, it can lead to, you know, down all kinds of paths.

[01:23:12]>> Exactly. Yep. And if you can quote a context, the word of God, you can quote anything out of context, right?

[01:23:18]>> Oh, yeah. Oh, there's no doubt about that. Yeah. Anything could be ripped uh out of context. There's no doubt about that.

[01:23:26]Yep. Yep. It's true.

[01:23:30]True. True. True.

[01:23:32]>> So, yeah. So, one last question, then I'm going to have to bug out.

[01:23:36]>> Yeah. Let's take at least one more question. I know Gary's got to go, but uh maybe we can do, you know, if we get at least one more in. We'll tackle it.

[01:23:45]team, anything you have on your minds or for people that are backstage, you can let us know what is on your mind. What is your faith? What is your question? I know we've got Okay. Well, Leo spoke. Leo had a question about Sarak. Leo, how you doing, my friend?

[01:24:02]You able to hear us?

[01:24:04]>> Yeah. Yeah. Hi. Um I don't know if you can hear me properly because I'm I'm I'm on my phone.

[01:24:10]>> Okay. So, um I was reading St. Cyprian, right? Um cuz I was trying to see what he said about um almsgiving and for almsgiving um almsgiving specifically causing the forgi forgiveness of sins.

[01:24:25]The big proof text for that is in um in Shurok, right? So I saw he quotes it and he says um obviously as um scripture, right?

[01:24:37]>> Okay. And um what I thought was curious is um he attributed it to um to Solomon.

[01:24:46]Um would would that be a problem for using his test his testimony on the cannon that he was mistaken about its origin? Would you say or um um Well, William, do you want to take it or me?

[01:25:01]>> Uh you go ahead and take and I'll follow up after you. I'll I'll give my thoughts right after you. Okay. Yeah. No, it doesn't because Augustine actually mentioned this and of course Augustine was a big fan of Cyprian of Carthage. Uh that the early church fathers often grouped the wisdom of Solomon and Sierak under the the title of Solomon. So the wise men says or Solomon says and they'll quote Sierak for example. Even though Sierak explicitly says that it's not written by Solomon, it's written by Ben Ser. Right.

[01:25:32]>> Right. So uh so you traditionally have five books of Solomon not because it's the authorship but because the style is similar. So fathers would do that >> and then now and then they also make a distinction. So they say within the five books of Solomon three are authentically Solomon you know Ecclesiastes, Song of Song was and Proverbs and the other two are are Solomon but in terms of style and Augustine gets into that in some depth. So that's basically it. So yeah, it it doesn't matter. And in fact, you know, authorship really doesn't matter that much in terms of canonicity because there are some books of the Bible we don't know who the authors are and rights could speculate who it is.

[01:26:18]>> Yeah. And I mean I I was thinking about that because um authorship is a a big problem for some people, right? I mean you have like the liberal critical scholars, right? will say like some crazy stuff about authorship, but even if like whatever they say, it's not even really like necessarily a problem for us, right? Because we believe it's inspired whoever write wrote it anyways, right? Like even if someone else wrote it or whatever, right?

[01:26:42]>> Exactly. Yeah. The the touchstone is is this part of the deposit of faith handed on by Christ and his apostles to the church.

[01:26:50]>> Yes.

[01:26:50]>> That's not it's not authorship, >> right? And then also um >> let me just briefly touch upon that.

[01:26:58]It's a great point because early in his life Augustine as as Gary pointed out uh believed wisdom uh the book of wisdom as being associated with Solomon. And then later in his life he he acknowledged that Solomon was probably not not the actual human author. But nevertheless, and Gary can attest to this, he never stopped affirming its canonical status ever. So really really what is the decisive question for him was never solom solommonic authorship it was really okay well what is the church's reception of this book and the church's reception of this book was a sacred scripture and that was the the important thing for Augustine he never stopped affirming this to be um a biblical book is that right Gary >> yeah absolutely and Augustine was well aware of Cyprien so >> Oh yeah >> right and then um Something else is um it seems to me like they probably I mean I don't know if there's any evidence of this but is there evidence that like the reformers removed Shurok because of its teaching on almsgiving cuz I mean it seems to me like almsgiving obviously contradicts the whole like faith alone endeavor right like if you if if almsgiving literally like um literally causes like causes of forgiveness of sins like St. Augustine and St. reciprocity then like that's pretty much against like faith alone, right? But like I don't know if that if they had like I don't know like um like that was part of it or >> or um >> do you want to take that since I took the last one?

[01:28:36]>> The idea of the early reformers removing these books of course is is not entirely certain. Denigrating them there's no doubt about that. Now, is there an issue with almsgiving and the language found in the Duro cannon in general? There for the reformers, there clearly is and Luther didn't like it. That's why EK brings it up multiple times over in their dialogue back and forth. Ek makes it a point to not only note that not only is this theology of almsgiving found in the duder cannon, it's also found in the protoconical books. So uh can we say that part of disparaging uh duter canonical texts by the reformers was because of what is said there about armsgiving about good works and what have you. Yes we do most definitely can say that and evidence of that is uh the debates and the dialogues that Luther had back and forth between EKA. Uh anything else to add to that Gary? Anything to add to that?

[01:29:38]>> Um no I don't think so. Uh Bruce Mezer in his introduction to the apocrypha essentially says that Luther was first led to disparage the so-called apocrypha because it it contradicted his teaching and he does mention prayers for the dead and so on so forth.

[01:29:57]>> So you know Luther Kelvin the others they won't say that they won't say hey let's get rid of these books because they teach this but it seems like Protestants are well aware of that. In fact, you'll run into Protestant websites out there that argue that the so-called apocrypha can't be scripture because it contradicts their own teaching. Right. So, >> Right.

[01:30:19]>> So, even if the the early reformers didn't do it, modern Protestants do it.

[01:30:25]>> And um before I go, I just had one pretty big question, I think. So, it's on the matter of translations. So obviously we're not like Vulgate onlyists in that we don't like affirm that the Vulgate is like especially in inspired and infallible whatever but but um the Septuagent um the Septuagent has some like interpretive differences and um and at the same time the book of Sarak that we consider canonical right is the Greek version not the Hebrew original. So for something like Sirak, how would we deal deal with interpretive interpretive differences between the Greek edition and the Hebrew edition?

[01:31:16]Because I mean, as far as I understand, um, sir was translated by Jesus Ben Shira's grandson or something, right?

[01:31:27]Mhm.

[01:31:27]>> But like what do what do we make of the differences there and between the Septuagent additions?

[01:31:36]>> Yeah. William, do you want to take it or >> I'll piggy back off of you. Go ahead.

[01:31:41]>> Yeah. I'd say, you know, I think the the received canonical form would be Greek because although we find uh there I think it's about what twothirds of Sirak is been recovered from Hebrew.

[01:31:53]>> That's correct. Yeah. At least twothirds. There's no guarantee that the Hebrew is actually the original, >> right?

[01:31:59]>> Uh although it's very important witness, right? They're a very ancient text and they likely could comport to the original, but we simply don't have enough manuscript evidence to make that solid. Um so I, you know, the canonical form I believe would be the Greek form, which would be true.

[01:32:15]>> That's what the fathers would have been quoting from.

[01:32:17]>> Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. So um you know it'd be the same with um the Septuagian I imagine right because the the New Testament quotes the Septuagian even when it's at odds with the Hebrew text although a couple of times it does go the other way with the Hebrew text over the Septuagent. So >> yeah, >> and as Catholics, would we identify?

[01:32:41]Well, I mean, because sometimes it's not necessarily like different and that it's contradicting, but other times it's like making um an an interpretation where it like explains or gives an explanation as to what what it means. Like for example, I noticed that in Deuteronomy 32, right, the Hebrew says sons of God in reference to like the angels, >> but it changes it changes it in the Septuagent to angels of God. And it's it's the same thing with um Psalms I think 6:8, which Hebrews quotes was talking about um how Jesus was made a little low lower than an angel. But the measur the I guess the Maseretic text says um Elohim or God there. So would we I mean obviously for Hebrews it's it's it's it's quoted in in in Hebrews but for the other interpretive parts would we take that as infallibly authoritative or just um suggestive as as Catholics?

[01:33:53]Yeah. Willie, may you want to take that?

[01:33:56]Because I I don't know if I I know how to answer that. Actually, >> I I would have to look at those texts, the ones that you brought up. And considering I'm traveling, I don't have my critical edition in front of me or anything. I'd have to look at that. I'd have to examine those to be very honest with you. I'm traveling. I've got choppy internet as people can tell and what have you. I'd have to look at that. So, uh, I'll put that question of yours a little bit on the back burner and the next time we're all live together as a team next week at least when I'll be back home in a few days. But, um, uh, by next week I'll I'll definitely have a more in-depth answer. But, yeah, at the moment, I'd have to go look at the tests. I'd have to compare and yeah, I just not enough time to give you at least an even close to adequate response that I would want to give. Not that I'm the kind of response I'm used to giving I wouldn't be able to give right now.

[01:34:49]>> Yeah. Yeah. I I I don't think any council ever spoke to what is the authentic text.

[01:34:55]>> I think theologically you would say the autograph the original is inspired subsequent copies. And so when you're looking at things like the Hebrew text which is subsequent copies and also the Greek you know Septuagent so on >> you know those are representations various and you have to treat those very carefully right because uh >> sure >> um but they're valuable still because you could say for example the way I look at it is translations are commentaries okay every translation is a commentary >> because it requires some interpretation so that means the subtian is very valuable because it gives us a snapshot of how Jews in the first couple of centuries before Christ understood the Hebrew text. Right? And same thing with the vulgate. The vulgate is a a fourth century snapshot of how the Greek of the New Testament and the other texts were understood in the fourth century, right?

[01:35:53]So you have to keep it in mind that it's it's still valuable certainly to understand like how the text was understood and sometimes it could give you clues as to like vowel pointing and other things as well. Um but in terms I think theologically you would say the autograph is inspired but then how do we come to the autograph right? That's when you have to do the heavy lifting of searching through manuscripts and and sorting these things out.

[01:36:22]Yeah. And seeing how the what seeing what the fathers preferred to refer to, what was preferred to be quoted, looking at critical additions and what have you.

[01:36:31]And yeah, that does take time. Yeah.

[01:36:34]>> Yeah.

[01:36:36]>> Okay. Well, thank you. Thank you.

[01:36:38]>> Yeah.

[01:36:38]>> Hey, brother. It was great talking to you. Don't be a stranger. Keep coming up more often, especially when my internet is better. I'd like you to have you come up more often. Uh and we'll talk again soon. Okay, brother.

[01:36:49]>> Yep. Yeah.

[01:36:50]>> God bless you, my friend. have a tremendous one.

[01:36:52]>> Yeah. Actually, William, let me throw out something. I don't remember a council ever declaring that a particular text has to read a certain way.

[01:37:00]>> Nope.

[01:37:01]>> Although it's but they do they do affirm that you cannot deny the meaning of a particular text, >> right?

[01:37:09]>> 1,000%. That is a great point. I was thinking about that as I was dialoguing with with a gentleman. That's a really really good point there. And uh yeah, and ultimately I'd probably go back and look at the text that he brought up there, but uh yeah, that's a great point there. Very, very helpful.

[01:37:26]>> Okay, >> cool. Well, I got to dash everybody. So, um >> brother, I got to go, brother. We'll see each other tomorrow, my friend. I'm gonna I'm gonna tackle one more question that uh snuck in or maybe one or two more. And brother, I will see you tomorrow, my friend. God bless you.

[01:37:41]>> All right. Take care, everybody. Byebye.

[01:37:43]>> Take care, brother.

[01:37:46]All right, audience. I just want to double check. How is my audio? I just want to make sure you all are at least able to hear me. And if you all just confirm you all are able to hear me, I'll I'll tackle a few more questions.

[01:38:01]Biceps Brona the hater. How is the Is my audio okay? Uh I know that earlier it broke uh it was breaking up. Uh okay, it's pretty good. Well, then it was pretty good. All right, then. And if it's pretty good, I'll I'll stick around a little longer, man. As long as you confirm that it's pretty good, I'll stick around a little longer. I like doing at least two hours. So, hey, we got questions, I'll stick around. And I want to thank you all for your support and let you all know as I've been traveling, I greatly appreciate you all showing up even though I don't have video because of the horrible lag if I put it on. And I but I do want to thank you all. Would not be able to do this.

[01:38:39]We wouldn't be able to do this kind of material without your support and the legendary the brother himself. Francis baby to us. A great one. We're going to talk about this one. And if anybody else has any questions, we'll tackle your questions. I love you, my friend. This is a great one.

[01:38:55]Mary Magdalene, the French tradition, please clarify if I get anything wrong, brother. If there's anything that I'm getting wrong here, I'm going to take a guess that I think you mean after the bodily resurrection that there are traditions and there are um there are traditions. Now, I can tell you what the traditions are because I've done a lot of work on the bodily resurrection. Now, as to whether or not I think that they hold up ultimately, if you want to know, I can tell you that as well. Uh, but there's tradition that after the bodily resurrection, I know Mary Magdalene, I'm glad we're having a chance to talk about Mary Magdalene. Is there feast day? So, thank you for that question. Mary Magdalene, uh, I think it was Mary Magdalene, it was Martha and I forgot the names of the others. I think Lazarus, Maximus, and there were others as well. They were that they were eventually in a miraculous kind of manner uh set a drift in a boat and that particular mira miracle I don't know if you want to call it a miracle or kind of mira miraculous way they land in southern Gaul and this is a later tradition now I can tell you my thoughts as to whether or not I believe this to you know to be verifiable or not I can definitely do that if you all want to hear um and I will do that and any by the way audience any other questions that come in we'll tackle them right now. Glad the audio is clear enough to where I can answer questions for a bit longer. Now what then was uh what what we then find in the medieval era is that she would evangelize uh she evangelized province remember province was um that was southern Gaul that's modern province forgive me that was southern Gaul and now I'll tell you what I think according to the tradition she helped establish a Christian faith there Now remember the evidence is late in history. So somebody can come back and challenge and say, "Well, this is very late in history." It may be late in history, but I think that there's got to be some elements of truth there. Um maybe not the whole account because of how late it is and there's no strand of an earlier one, but in of of at least some elements of it, I definitely think we can say that it's pretty strong. Um the other particular thing that we're told is that later on uh first off she set a wonderful and a tremendous example of of great prayer life and this is a tradition that's very strong in the area. Now can this tradition be verified from very early sources? It can't. But it doesn't mean that it's all legend because we know that early writers don't mention the journey. But does the church permit devotion that is connected to this tradition? The church does. Is it a matter of Catholic dogma? It is. It is not. And you can be like historian and say, "Well, I'm just not totally certain about it." Or you can flat out say you you do believe in it and you do accept it. Either which way. The church has never said um you have to accept it or you don't have to accept it. It it may come up later in history, just to be clear.

[01:42:21]It does come up later in history, just to be certain. And by the way, for those of you all that we've lost a lot of our audience already, but for those of you all that are tuning in on Apocrypha Apocalypse, uh we're live now. We're still live here, but make sure you've got both browsers open, guys. Make sure you smash with your big old uh Biceps, not as big as Biceps Brona because he's a hater. He didn't even tune in to the morning show, man. Um, and make sure you smash the like button on both channels. Open up your browser and have have it open and hit that beautiful like button in both channels to support both. Um, so it's a deeply rooted tradition. That's what I can say. Deeply rooted. Um, so that's one very positive thing I can say. Even though you don't have early church fathers writing about it. Yeah.

[01:43:15]So that's a good question. That's a great one that came in. Really, really good one.

[01:43:20]Yeah. And you definitely can, brother.

[01:43:23]You definitely can. There's nothing wrong with believing it. No, I mean, I want to be very clear. And by the way, St. Francis Baby toe brother, God bless you. Thank you for your support. I just saw you got the name Mary Magdalene.

[01:43:36]Have you always had that name or did you barely add that? I remember seeing Francis baby to Mary. I didn't remember Mary Magdalene. Yeah. And you can.

[01:43:45]you're very free to believe it because I even though even though there are not incredibly early accounts uh there seems to be a very strong embedded tradition in the area which to me tells me that at least some of this is true at least some of it is true um you know what else there is I forgot to mention I don't think I mentioned it but there's also a cave associated with I don't think I mentioned that. My bad. I don't know why I wouldn't mention this, but according to the this uh this pretty early tradition, there's also a cave where it is said that she spent a lot of time praying to God there in contemplative prayer. That she would retreat to this cave and spend a lot of time in contemplative prayer here in this cave. Uh I don't remember the name of the cave. I'd have to Google it. In fact, let me Google it right now.

[01:44:44]because I don't remember the name of the cave. Be completely honest with you all.

[01:44:49]Let me try and Google it right now though. What was the name of that cave?

[01:44:54]The name of that cave. Hold on.

[01:44:59]Oh, I love that, brother. I just saw that. I love that, man. I love that, brother. That's great.

[01:45:09]Okay.

[01:45:23]She spent 30 years in prayer there in a cave that is now known as St. L.

[01:45:31]Amazing. Tremendous.

[01:45:34]Uh yeah, and I know there's more that is that can be said. I know there's plenty more. By the way, happy feast day of St. Mary Magdalene. Uh we've got about I don't know. I wanna I want to close this even though a lot of people thought we're ending already, so we don't have a huge audience. That's fine. Doesn't matter. Uh maybe we'll spend the final few moments talking about uh Mary Magdalene. If people want us to do that, we can definitely do that. Uh but if nobody has anything else, we'll wrap it up now. By the grace of the Lord, we'll be back tomorrow.

[01:46:11]tomorrow.

[01:46:15]Yeah. And we're going to talk about Mary Magdalene in the morning. We're going to talk about her in the morning. Um, let me see.

[01:46:33]We were going to talk about her in the morning, but [snorts] [clears throat] But we had another show that we did. I thought that was a great one we did with a brother Anthony Aosta.

[01:46:50]I thought that was a great one on Judaizing and and uh on uh the Hebrew Bible on the Greek Bible. I don't know if it's St. Francis Baby and Elena. I don't know if you all got to tune in, but I know you all have had questions recently about the Greek Bible, about the Hebrew Bible. Did you all enjoy that in the morning? You all enjoy that? I know you all have had questions about that before. And of course, you all know that I am all about uh the Greek Septuagent. In fact, we've done whole shows defending the Greek Septuagent here. So, you know that about me.

[01:47:31]And I can't wait to finally have my video back, guys, to where William will be able to show his bald head again with Vicks, man. That's what I'm waiting for, man. Be able to show my bald head again with Vicks, man.

[01:47:49]And um and dialogue with all of you all as usual. We got a lot coming up including debates and what have you.

[01:47:59]Plenty of fun stuff coming up today.

[01:48:02]Again, today is feast day of Mary Magdalene. Yeah. Where we first see her in the Gospel of St. Luke chapter 8 verse 2.

[01:48:13]Luke 8:2 uh where we're told that our Lord cast seven demons out of her. And of course um there is that question where people bring up they'll say well is she that woman uh is she that uh sinful woman of Luke 7 and what have you. I know some people take that particular position and uh we could either talk about that or we can sidetrack that sidestep that today.

[01:48:44]But uh in terms of her appearing, she appears in Luke 8, the gospel of Luke 8:2.

[01:48:51]And uh she is there are seven demons cast out of her. She is healed and she follows Christ. I mean, she even helped support his ministry from her own resources. You know that?

[01:49:05]And boy was she honored, loved, venerated in dearly church.

[01:49:12]loved and extolled by the great Pope St. Gregory the Great, who by the way holds her up as a magnificent model of faithfulness.

[01:49:25]A magnificent model of faithfulness.

[01:49:28]By the way, did anybody know she's also there at the cross? Right, John 19:25? She's right there at the foot of the cross alongside our immaculate mother Mary. All right. Did you Did you all know that she's spoken of in a very highly manner by St. John?

[01:49:51]He praises her for being incredibly courageous.

[01:49:56]Did you know that? For being incredibly courageous.

[01:50:00]Man, what a hater, man. You were asleep, brother. That's all right, man. God bless you. King Baldwin, the man, the myth, the legend.

[01:50:08]In fact, King Baldwin. Hold on.

[01:50:16]Okay, one moment.

[01:50:20]One moment.

[01:50:23]One moment. There we go. That's what we've been We had been waiting to do that. I'd been waiting to do that for a minute. Uh but of course King Baldwin is one of our most active uh and one of our longest tenure members here as well. So that was something that was a long time coming. Definitely congratulations there brother. So we continue. I hope my audio is still okay so I can at least finish talking a little bit about Mary Magdalene. And if you all have any questions, we're tackling any and all of them right now. Faithful. Uh so let's talk a little bit more about uh uh Saint Magdalene. Uh Chris praised her in amazing way. Um uh [clears throat] what else can be said about her? Uh oh yeah, she's among the first to encounter the bodily risen Christ. Right. That's right. Now, at first, like others, she doesn't recognize him. She mistakes him for the gardener.

[01:51:26]And when our Lord calls her by name, Mary, well, she immediately recognizes him.

[01:51:33]How does she respond? Raboni.

[01:51:36]By the way, can anyone tell me? I want to know. Can anyone tell me before we are done?

[01:51:43]Who was the one that called her? And she is known he she's known as that today.

[01:51:49]Uh she's known as the apostle to the apostles. Who called her that? Can anyone tell me? Can anyone I I wonder I wonder if anyone can tell me there was an early church father. By the way, the early fathers had great honor and veneration for her, great respect for her, but can anybody tell me who was the early church father that actually called her the apostle to the apostles?

[01:52:13]And he did it by my uh estimation more than once, I believe.

[01:52:20]No, it doesn't make her one of the [clears throat] 12 or it doesn't confer um apostolic office either. No, but it it honors her as uh as unique in uh in the role of of uh of her mission in her missionary role.

[01:52:41]I wonder if anybody can guess that who on earth calls her the apostle to the apostles.

[01:52:49]I wonder if anybody can guess that. No.

[01:52:52]No man. I shouldn't even have looked at the audience of this story. No.

[01:52:57]Shouldn't even have look. Why did I even look? Why did I even look in the crowd, man? Should have kept my eyes. I I should I should have kept my eyes backstage, man. Why did I even look there, man? No, man.

[01:53:13]The man, the myth, the legend, Mark Lro, how you doing, heretic? Thank you for being a member. A legendary member.

[01:53:21]Thank you, brother. Thank you for being a legendary member, my friend. Um yeah.

[01:53:35]Can anyone guess? Has anyone guessed?

[01:53:38]I don't see people have have Oh.

[01:53:49]Let me see.

[01:53:53]No. No. Toette. Nope. Not Irenaeus.

[01:54:00]Not Irenaeus.

[01:54:03]Let's see if anybody can guess it.

[01:54:08]I'll tell you. You got it. St. Bronze says, "Baby, tell you got it, man."

[01:54:14]Mark Laro got it as well. Got it as well. She's a Noahide. [laughter] No, Lyola.

[01:54:26]Lyola is not an early church father, man. Dude. [laughter] Oh my goodness, man. Oh my I'm going to pluck my um my eyelashes out, man. this.

[01:54:40]She thought Loy She thought Ignatius of Lyola was an early father. Oh my goodness. My goodness gracious. You got it though. St. Francis baby toe. You got it, man. [laughter] Ignatius of Loyola. My goodness, man.

[01:54:55]Oh my goodness gracious. So, Mark Larok, you were asking why grow your hair back.

[01:55:01]I can't, man. I try. All right, man. I try. I'll try. I try to I'll try to do it. Something tells me I won't be able to.

[01:55:09]Uh, why did somebody ask? I don't remember. Why did somebody ask [snorts] where did they ask?

[01:55:17]Okay. How is she? Okay. No, we'll talk about how why she was called that. And if we get any other questions, we'll tackle them. If not, we'll wrap it up after that. Any other questions we get in, we will tackle them. And if we don't get any more, we'll just wrap it up after that. Um well the reason St. Augustine called her that was because our Lord uh you remember our Lord entrusted her to announce his bodily resurrection to the apostles. So that's exactly why St. Augustine referred to her as apostle to the apostles. Now again uh Mark it doesn't mean um she is part of the 12 or that she has an apostolic office. No, it doesn't mean any of that. It it all it means is that she is the one that are that um our the one that was entrusted by our Lord to announce this body bodily resurrection to the apostles. That's that's exactly what it means. I don't want to say that's all it means because it means something important. It's something really really important. Uh she was venerated greatly. St. Gregor Nissa has great things to say about her. Um, yeah, I'm not sure if if uh if anything else can be said about her.

[01:56:37]Now, an interesting debate and and if somebody does ask that question before we wrap it up, we'll we'll tackle that.

[01:56:43]But I know some people are will say, "No, I don't agree." There are some people that would argue and we know some fathers took the position that uh she was that woman, the sinful woman of Luke 7. Um now we know that in Luke 8 uh seven demons are cast out of her.

[01:57:05]Does that logically entail then that she was that prostitute is the question that usually is asked. Uh and people usually are going to ask well does the Bible identify her with a sinful woman of Luke 7. Now that's a a hotly debated topic even amongst Catholics um where people will debate that particular issue. Now the one thing that we know without a shadow of a doubt for certain is she's presented as a uh a woman after the seven demons are cast out of her she's incredibly healed by our Lord and becomes an amazing an amazing and a faithful disciple. So after her healing uh she would follow our Lord and remember she even supported his ministry. She was one of the women that supported um and uh how were these ministries supported? Well, a lot of them were supported either by food, clothing, money of course because they had a money bag in order to survive. The apostles they well they needed a money bag. Uh and we know that Judas stole thieveries.

[01:58:14]the thief stole from the moneybag.

[01:58:17]Uh but that's um that's a whole other topic, a completely different one. She was faithful at the cross. So I mean I think that's another reason why the great Augustine could look to her and say she was uh apostle to the apostles, you know, and it does make sense. It does. It really does make a whole lot of sense. Tremendous imagery were given there. Beautiful and tremendous symmetry. Just beautiful and tremendous symmetry.

[01:58:51]It's beautiful and tremendous imagery.

[01:58:55]But faithful, we're going to wrap it up at that. We're going to creek close the doors to the dojo. Um, I stole that completely from Gary. Completely ripped that off from Gary.

[01:59:11]and uh a few announcements. Man, I wish I could share images. If only I could share some images. I can't because I risk my thing crashing if I try and share images. Uh and I don't even know if I can if I bring if I even bring anybody up. So, faithful that I have backstage guys when I'm in an area that has better connection. Don't worry, I will definitely bring you up more. But it's tough to bring somebody up without a co-host to because it'll lag brutally.

[01:59:41]So, you know, me being alone, uh, I bring somebody up, it'll it'll lag brutally. You know, it's tough doing a, you know, back and forth. Although, in the morning show was pretty easy. You know, that was pretty I didn't have an issue other than maybe I don't know, maybe one hiccup, but right now it's a little bit harder. I don't know if it's if it's the more people that are on. I I have no idea how stream how Streamyard works in that regard. I have absolutely no crew, no clue how Streamyard works in that regard. But guys that we got back here, I see you there. Do not worry. The next time we do go live, um the next time I am live, uh with a co-host, we'll definitely bring you up. But you don't have to fret. Don't fret. Fret not because I'll be live again with much more stable internet, much stabler internet in just a a couple of days.

[02:00:36]We'll definitely dialogue with you then.

[02:00:38]Uh but in the meantime, a few a few announcements to make. Even though I can't share my uh images or what have you, they just won't load here. They won't load. That's why we couldn't do our marriology class because I can't load images or PDFs because, you know, they're they're bigger. They're bigger than like three or four megabytes. I can't load them. But we've got a debate.

[02:01:01]I'll be debating uh against Kelly Powers on whether or not James chapter 2 teaches um uh salvation by faith and good works. Or is it faith alone? What is it? That'll be in a August 18th, I believe. 17th or 18th? I don't remember.

[02:01:22]I'd have to look at my calendar and I don't have my calendar open in front of me. And of course, the other debate that I want to promote, even though I can't share an image at the moment, the other debate that we want to promote is AB, the men, the myth, the legend. Now, that I remember the date off the top of my head because that's in August. That'll be in August the 12th. That'll be the day after my daughter's birthday. That's why I remember that particular date off the top of my head.

[02:01:50]the man, the myth, the legend AB is going to be debating on whether or not the Jews have a closed fixed cannon. If they had a closedfixed cannon in the first century, that is going to be the debate that they're going to be tackling. They're going to be taking it to the Mmen. It'll be a theological showdown.

[02:02:10]And I am very much looking forward to that. That's going to be tons of fun. Uh I arrived at my destination. Thanks for the shout out. I've enjoyed what listening to. How you doing, John? I love you, man. I love I love you, man.

[02:02:25]Never. Brandon, he ran from debating William.

[02:02:28]I'm just trying to see what's going on.

[02:02:32]Uh trying to see. Can we [laughter] get out of here? No, we can't. What do you mean? Of course not. No. Elena, I like how you changed your name to Greek.

[02:02:47]Elena, I love it. I love Elena. I love how the name has been changed to Greek.

[02:02:53]It's great. It's also grammatically uh correct.

[02:02:58]Uh thank you guys backstage for understanding. Love you all dearly.

[02:03:04]Thank you for understanding and I'll see you all again very soon. Love you all dearly. Faithful, pray for me. I'll be praying for all of you all. And I just want to double check I got to every change to Greek. Yep. Yep. Putting all you all on notice. Elena's doing it.

[02:03:25]Yep.

[02:03:28]Yep.

[02:03:31]AB debating the guy. Oh, okay. So then I guess that you you wanted to be put in timeout for a full day. Okay, I got you. We'll put you in timeout for a full day. So you can you can ponder about your words in the corner there as you, you know, as you, you know, play with your fingers, you twiddle your thumbs, and you think about it. And the next time you make a comment like that, it it won't be 24 hours.

[02:03:57]It'll be 72 hours. And then the next time you make another comment like that, we'll just permanently ban you. Uh we'll permanently ban you. Yeah. Don't don't be mad. Don't be mad, Brandenelo. You got you got absolutely annihilated when you came up here and you tried to defend your hero Steve's arguments. You got embarrassed. You ran to Steve and you told him, "I got embarrassed. I should have been I should have been, you know, more forceful with them. They embarrassed me. But that William that William is a nasty a nasty bugger. That William Guy's a nasty bugger." Well, now you got time to think about what a nasty bugger that William guy is. You are in timeout in the corner. Randen will put you back in timeout another another 72 hours if you want. Then after that, of course, we'll just permanently ban you if you want. Faithful, we're going to wrap it up now. We're going to close the doors of the dojo. God bless all of you all. You all rock. You all are beyond tremendous. I do want to thank you all.

[02:04:54]Those those of you all that are members, you all are tremendous. Those of you all that sent in questions, you all are tremendous. Thank you all for your amazing support. The Lord bless you.

[02:05:04]Immensely faithful.

[02:05:07]Magnific.

[02:05:13]image.

[02:05:16][music] [music] [music] [music] [singing] >> [music] [music] >> My soul magnifies [music] the Lord and my spirit rejoices in contra.

[02:06:02][music] Foreign [music] [music] [singing] [music] [music and singing] Who the city exalt [music] me [music] [music] is [music] >> [music] >> Father, [music] into thy hands [music] I commit to my spirit.

[02:07:31]Glory.