Grundman correctly identifies that many "estranged parent" platforms are merely echo chambers for denial rather than spaces for genuine accountability. Her refusal to validate performative victimhood over actual healing sets a necessary ethical boundary for the trauma-recovery community.
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Estranged Parent Podcasters Invited Me On - But There's a Problem (Help Me Decide)Added:
So, I have a dilemma.
Joe and Chris is my dilemma.
Today is May 3rd. On April 20th, I received this email. Hey, Marne. We wanted to reach out and see if you'd be open to coming on our podcast, Laugh, Cry, Scream, Life with Grief and Estrangement.
Since you've done content on us in the past, I've done content on Chris. I've done content on estranged and deranged these two uh Chris and Candy. Um so not Joe because I wasn't familiar with Joe and you know because I wasn't familiar with Joe. I know I'm repeating myself.
Anyway, since you've done content on us in the past, you were someone we immediately thought of.
We'd really love to hear your story and have a genuine dialogue with you around grief, estrangement, healing, and the complicated parts of life that people do not always talk about out loud. We feel like your perspective could bring something really meaningful to the conversation and we'd be honored to have you on as a guest. If you'd be open to it, we'd love to coordinate a time that works for you. Hope to hear from you soon. So again, it's May 3rd. this came through April 20th. I've been traveling even if I hadn't um I've needed time to really think about it and I don't think when this was written there was too much content on them and I didn't I I just also didn't have the time to watch it. Since then, I've received several emails from you in the community, uh, with links, with commentary, um, with opinions around what they've been doing, what they've been producing, and all that sort of thing. And I'm I'm on the fence. I was more on the fence before I saw their content um, in terms of I could have gone either way in this decision, and I'd actually like to have a conversation about it. Um because if it's going to be of benefit, I will do it.
I'm just not sure how it would be of benefit. So I talk a lot about how in the estrangement community, it's important for us to work hard not to have echo chambers.
And in our community here, we have a growing number of aranged parents and low contact parents who are joining in the conversation in in our comment section.
And I love that for us because there are a lot of estranged parents out there or even low contact parents out there who do have the ability to self-reflect, who do want to take accountability in a meaningful way, who don't understand the things that they're doing that are standing in their own way, and who, you know, are in this pain of loss trying to hold on to a relationship without knowing how to mend that relationship. Um, and so because we have this great community of dialogue going on in the comments section, I see the estranged parents and some of them low contact commenting in, you know, I hadn't looked at this thing this way or that way. And now I'm seeing the things that you're talking about that I'm realizing I did in my relationship with my adult offspring. And this is really going to help me to be able to either save the relationship, repair the relationship, or make peace with where I am now. And I know if it happens that I have a chance, I'm in a better position.
And that's what I think we need to be doing. Beyond that, as individuals, we also need to be working on our own healing journeys and having the validation of our experiences, knowing that we're not alone. When I feature the aranged parent content the way that I do, I'm breaking down some of the things that aren't so apparent or some of the things that are that nobody else believes you around. And so, all of that is contributing to all of us healing together.
My problem with Chris and Joe now that I've started to look at some of their content because originally I thought, you know, I'll go on.
It's important to have a conversation.
I'll go on with safeguards. And my safeguards would be that I will also be filming the podcast and have the rights to use it in any way that I choose as well to protect myself from something getting edited out of context because let's face it, these are individuals that I don't know and that I have every reason not to trust.
And the reason I have every reason not to trust them is because of the way that I see that they treat other people. Um speak about people. Um Joe in particular I think has a tremendous lack of respect for women. Um using terms like [ __ ] and [ __ ] So now that I know that like I didn't know that initially. I just knew that like these are people I don't know. And it's different when I've been invited to go onto a podcast or a news show and I've done probably upwards of 200 when I know the format and I can look at what's going on and I know the viewpoint that they're coming from and it's not about an echo chamber. It's just about the security of knowing what I can expect.
And let's face it, you know, I have made videos about Chris breaking down things that she said and I am not team Chris. I mean, she invalidates um emotional abuse. She's done it in I mean, my videos are the proof in the pudding. So, if I were her, I might be ticked off at me and that might make me come in hot. I can handle that.
Do I want to? And if I do, it's got to be for a damn good reason. Joe, on the other hand, I see him as being pretty aggressive. And it's I can't handle it because I know that's going to be a thing. If they see this, I know like that's going to be It's not that. It's that I don't have to.
And I don't so much love the idea of having a a connection to even in a podcast and affiliation with someone who speaks the way that he does. I just I don't I I don't like that idea. What I do like the idea of is having a strange parents come out of echo chambers, having the opportunity to build community in a healthier way. And who knows, maybe something that I say might help Chris and Joe change some of their perspectives around things like boundaries, um things like ego, you know, things like hierarchy, I'm the parent kind of stuff. Um, I can tell you that watching this podcast and and Joe is very fresh into his arangement, I think it's two years, he's putting the nails in the coffin. And I don't think he understands that. And there's also a lack of disclosure in the way that they talk about their estrangements. And I have a problem with that. You know, if you're going to talk, talk. And if you're not, don't.
Um, so what we're going to do is there's a live that they did. I'm going to break some of it down so that also I I want you to see bits and pieces. I'm not going to play the whole thing. It's over an hour long. I'm just going to play the parts that caught my eye. Um, and you know, I mean, I've given you the signature and everything of the podcast.
So, if you want to go watch it for yourself, you're more than welcome to do so. I don't care about worrying about giving them more audience or not giving them more audience. This is not that.
Like I think it's more important that you know if you are wanting to see entire context and things like that that you're able to do so. Um for me I I think you all know that transparency is a thing that's extremely important to me. So I'm giving you the opportunity to look at the whole thing. I'm not covering something that's over an hour long. I'm also um likely going to speed it up a little bit because I I only have so much bandwidth and I watched this yesterday while I was doing different things and um well, there's quite a bit I I really not pleased with and I wonder if I would just be putting myself in harm's way and there's no upside to it. Okay, so let's get into it, shall we? like, "No, this is what I want." Because people that take the time to comment to us and respond to us, you know, I take that criticism wholeheartedly, like, "Okay, I can think about what they're looking at." That's why >> laugh, cry, scream, um, group came about. We we want to have those interactions. We're continuing to try to pull information from you guys that are coming to us from there. It's a private group, so I'm never going to say, you know, it's never going to show on the screen here your name um because it's a private comment. But it's important to note that we we want the dialogue. I think we're different like that, Joe.
I do. Maybe.
>> What do you mean? Expand on that.
>> Absolutely. I really believe that we want to talk to both sides of the aisle.
>> Yes, definitely.
>> Yeah. I We If by you you mean the aranged parents and the kids? Yeah, we're definitely like that. I've I've yet to to encounter um one kid, you know, one estrange kid that's that's willing to have a dialogue and an informed conversation, you know what I mean?
>> Yeah, absolutely. you know, and and going back to the groups and if I mean, if you want to be a guest on the on the podcast, it doesn't I mean, yeah, estrangement and grief, but um if you want to spend 10 minutes talking about your [ __ ] daughter-in-law that you think caused the estrangement, we about that, too.
>> Yeah. Um and that's what's what's really great.
>> Yeah. So, if you want to go online and smear campaign your daughter-in-law, the spouse of, you know, your adult offspring, we're going to give you a stage to do that.
Okay? I'm leaning on the no for me. I'm leaning on the past for me. So, you don't see they don't see anything wrong with that. Yet they want the uh kids, the aranged kids to come in and speak, you know, in an informed way. Even that language right out of the gate, it feels so much like any a strange adult offspring that goes in there is coming in as a kid. I mean, I wouldn't be obviously. I'm probably older than them. Um outside of me, right?
Why would somebody subject themselves to that if you're building a platform where you allow parents to smear campaign their offspring and actually I mean I kind of feel like they like it.
I'm not inside their body. I'm just you know I'm giving I'm giving my point of view how this makes me feel.
>> Um you are here. Hello. we see when the comments she's she's coming Joe I don't know if you got it pulled up she's coming from our laugh cry screen group she's part of that group I won't say her last name um but it's it's amazing because um that in that group if you join that group there's like four questions it's not like we're going to interrogate your life we want to make sure that you're in the right group you know if you're alienated yes you can be in the group because a lot of times um as we found out from a guest we interviewed earlier this week parental alienation can absolutely transition to arangement. It's It's a crazy thing.
They're distant cousins. Um but they they can flow into each other. So, but if you're part of that group, you're going to get that link. It's the same link every week, but it's great because it's live conversations and every week we have a topic. Next week, for instance, we're going to be talking about Mother's Day. I >> Mother's Day is next weekend and I am already in the prep stages of what I'm going to do to make that day successful for myself. When Mother's Day comes up, I know that, you know, you've said, I've heard you say multiple times that, you know, you recognize that day as a day to celebrate you and your, you know, becoming a mother and being a mother.
Does it still bother you though? Do you do you get anxiety or anything like that when you know that he's not going to reach out? Well, I I would say that this year it's a little bit different because we went through three different arangement periods and last year um at this time we were officially estranged.
Like I really thought I was blocked. I mean, I knew that things were going on in February. Um >> so we went through three different estrangement periods. What that says to me is three different times my son tried to work out a relationship with me. I tried to work out a relationship with her. I'm with him. Like I'm I'm gonna say that that trying to work out was, you know, mutual. However, what was it in what you what Chris was doing that prevented that from happening? And for those of you who haven't seen the video that I covered on aranged and deranged, Chris is a person who thought nothing of leveraging her own grandchildren as a way to communicate and manipulate her son into talking to her.
And so I think that tells a story. And here I am.
Do I go on a podcast with someone who looks at the world that way and maybe she feels bad about it? Maybe she sees that it's wrong. I don't know because in that podcast she doesn't say, "Yeah, I did this thing and I recognize how wrong that was because a, you know, x y and z and blah blah blah." No, it was more like, "Yeah, I did this." And so it's that accountability piece and to put myself in the middle of two people who seem to struggle with accountability or with the recognition of the impact of their own behaviors.
Help me please.
>> But but he can go all different ways.
So, I wasn't quite sure, but I received nothing last Mother's Day, and I was absolutely devastated. I was I was devastated. I was pissed. I was appalled. I was hurt because it takes five [ __ ] seconds to send a happy Mother's Day text. I don't need a book >> thinking of you. Thanks for giving me life. You know, I'm not saying that this is a you owe me, but but recognize >> thanks for giving me life. I'm not saying it's a you owe me.
Huh?
I understand being hurt not receiving that message. However, you're not in a relationship with that person. Why would they send you something that's maybe not even heartfelt for your feelings when you didn't do the things that needed to be done to be in the relationship in the first place?
And as somebody who was in an estrangement with my own daughter, yeah, it sucked. I also didn't expect a message. And if I had gotten one, I would have I would have like celebrated, right?
We weren't in a relationship.
I just Yeah.
So interesting how differently we can look at the world, right? And relationships, >> everything good or bad or indifferent that I did with the best intentions.
Right.
>> And so when that didn't happen, I I I I was balling that night. And so I have >> proactively decided I'm not going to be there this year.
>> Yeah.
>> I'm I'm going to look at it a completely different way. I'm not begging. I'm not asking. I know it's not coming. I know with 100% no doubt there will be no recognition.
>> Right.
>> Now will I have recognition from others?
Yes. Will I recognize others? Yes.
>> Right. You know, you have u you've heard me um before admit to being a hypocrite in a way in regard to my own mother, right? But I'm also kind of a hypocrite.
Was kind of a hypocrite um when it came to Father's Day.
>> Um that first Father's Day and maybe the second one. Yeah, probably the second one too that you know, no call, no text, no acknowledgement.
I mean, it devastated me and I just had the worst day, right? Um, but this is coming from a person who absolutely despises, and I mean with impunity, hates Hallmark holidays. I hate them.
Father's Day, Mother's Day, Valentine's Day, Secretar's Day, Boss's Day, all the [ __ ] days. I don't like them.
However, I I really didn't like it those first two Father's Days when I didn't, you know, when I didn't hear anything from her. And birthdays, uh, birthdays bothered me, too. um you know up until you know maybe a little less than a than a year ago when I just changed my mindset. You've heard me say before I've accepted it, right? I I've accepted what the situation is. I don't like it. I don't agree with it. I don't understand it. But I've accepted it. And now uh this will be the first >> interesting he doesn't understand it.
but he was estranged from his own mother and when and maybe even his father I can't remember and when they got into the upper ages he reconciled with them but he was estranged for a long time so he can't understand why his daughter doesn't want to be in a relationship with him he doesn't understand arangement I mean I'm extracting that right yet he was also in that situation so how do you not understand it Then is this a case of and I don't know is this a case of I had it really bad and had very good reasons not to talk to them and my daughter doesn't have very good reasons and that happens a lot you know where um when we're in in a place where we're we're not really in an emotionally mature place um I've been guilty of this myself in much younger years where one of our kids will complain about something we they that we did and then we'll go back and I did this once and I did take it back and I did own it and I did apologize and I'm still horrified.
you have no idea how bad it could be because of everything that I had gone through. And that's so wrong because it's so invalidating of what my son's experience was. And fortunately um you know I was able to rectify um repair own all the things around my saying that and I genuinely felt that way at the time. I did not recognize that what I went through um and actually sheltered my children from growing up um wasn't to be used as a a comparison. And the whole thing of not exposing my children to that is so that they wouldn't know what that felt like. And yet here I was. I wanted them to know what that felt like to understand how good they had it. I'm like, "Oh, that was so bad.
And a lot of the estranged parents get stuck in that where because of their own experiences being what they are and them improving on that for their children into adulthood, there's this expectation that their children are going to understand how much better they did and it just doesn't work. Um, and as long as you stay locked in that, what you're really doing is invalidating the things that you didn't do well or the things that you did that caused harm and hurt.
And just because you did really great things, that doesn't, which we love to have credit for, it doesn't mean that those things overshadow the things that need to be healed. And if you're really doing great things, you're looking to heal the things that you caused, right?
See, this is the part where I think, well, I should have a conversation with them.
>> I don't know.
>> This will be the first one of those days. Father's Day coming up next month.
Um, so we'll see if I can actually uh walk the walk after talking the talk.
But I just don't give [ __ ] anymore. It's like, you know what? She doesn't acknowledge me any other of the days either, so whatever. We want the entire universe to know we are done being silent, >> you know, and the group isn't getting the group isn't getting smaller, Chris.
I mean, there it's growing day by day.
And I'm not talking about our um our our individual group. No, >> the arangement community.
>> I'm talking about the estrangement. It's growing every day now. It's like, you know, um Chubby Checkers the Twist in the 50s. It's catching on and more and more kids are jumping on board.
>> Yeah.
>> Like that stupid ice bucket challenge, >> right? Well, you did it. Okay. Well, then I'm going to do it, too, because that sounds good. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> We've we've we've got Pat and we know Pat. Pat, hello. I'm so happy to have you here. She comes to our Wednesday night group as well. She >> estrangement is a trend like the stupid ice bucket ch. Really? Really? Really?
So you want aranged adult kids, right?
You want a strange kids to come on your podcast and talk to you and you know you want to thicken it out with different perspectives in the face of a statement like that.
See, this is that thing that disconnect of you really don't understand and you really don't want to understand.
If you can diminish the experience of an adult walking away from their parent to a trend, an ice bucket challenge, you're you're a strange because you don't want to get it. and he doesn't want to get it because he is an he was an aranged adult son.
So if anyone should get it, shouldn't it be him? Going back the thing though, he had it really bad. And I'm not saying he said that. Uh he might have. I mean, I can't remember everything they said in this podcast. And I am chopping bits out. So, just so you know, a lot of what I'm chopping out is them promoting their group and, you know, trying to get people to join and all the things. So, that's what I'm cutting out. I'm just cutting out the the the fluffy stuff that isn't pertinent to my decision here today that you're hopefully going to help me with.
Ice bucket ch Oh my goodness.
Has an amazing story, but she says um and pull this over so I'm not continuing off the screen. Um, Mother's Day is always tough for me. Aranged from both daughters for over 16 years. Blessed that my mom is still alive so I can spend Mother's Day with her. Oh, that just touched my heart because you're right. I mean, it goes both ways. I remember um after I became a mom, it was like we went to Mother's Day with my family because we celebrated my mom and my mom celebrated me. I mean, it was a a reciprocal kind of thing. And it's you being separated from your daughters, you don't get to be with your grandchildren.
You don't get to celebrate your daughter for having for having kids and just overall that that welming. And she is 16 years out, you guys.
>> Some of those feelings, they don't go away, but we learn how to handle them.
She she does amazingly well. She's so really has worked hard, I think, to be where she's at.
um and recognizes that it's always going to be there, >> you know, and that's that's so I'm not going to give away too much, but that's so reminiscent of the of the interview that we did yesterday, the woman that we interviewed yesterday.
>> And I can't remember it's been 13, 15 years or something for her. So, that story is real is very reminiscent of that. It was hard to keep it was hard for me to keep my mouth shut a lot during that interview, you know, because there's some history there, you know, some >> familiarity and man, there was a whole bunch I wanted to say, but you know, >> you did really well. You kept it >> her and thank you. It was her interview, not ours, you know.
>> Yeah. But that's what's so crazy about this is it shows, you know, that I think the current numbers are 39% of all kids are arranged with at least one parent. Let's not quote where I where I pulled that number from.
I I would love to know like where are you getting that number from? You're out here talking to people supposedly looking to educate, form community, all the things. And you're going to quote a number like that. That's pretty damn high. I mean, no. See, this is and continually calling them kids. These are not children. These are adult people.
Adults.
You want them to come on your podcast, yet you treat them with such like you diminish them when you call them kids.
So, are you wanting them to come on to learn something or are you wanting them to come on to capitalize off of having them come on to grow what you're doing?
Because if it's coming from a genuine place, then it seems to me that you would be creating a space of safety in order to accomplish that.
No. Yes. Maybe thoughts.
So that only makes sense. It's like it's less than one in three people, right? So if you look around your sphere, even if they're not talking about it, >> statistically, >> you have you have friends that are going through the same exact thing.
>> What a way to be.
>> Yeah. Without question. You know somebody that's going through it.
>> And you talk about that because her story actually influenced you to start speaking out.
>> That's exactly right. Um >> you know, you just never know. You never know.
>> Yeah. When um you know, her and I spoke on the phone months ago. I can't I don't even know how long it's been. Months ago. And her and I even though you know we went through school together and everything, we didn't really know each other. It just knew who each other were, right?
>> And um she had put something on Facebook and uh about estrangement like I want to talk to her. I never I had never met anyone else um knowingly never met anyone else that was going through the same thing. So, I had some questions, right?
>> Absolutely.
>> Um after I don't know, we talked for maybe 20 30 minutes or something like that, but there's definitely other people uh going through this and that's how I found you and >> yeah, >> why we're sitting here today.
>> It just blew up as we always do it. It does. Yeah. Um but but I think that that that is so important because I many of us many and I think I don't know maybe a strange kids feel the same way. I'd love I'd love to hear a comment from one um they may have not been influenced. They may have been struggling because I think that it is important to recognize I always say with every profession with every facet of the world there's not great people. There's just not. I'm a nurse um and my background is nursing.
Actually, I'm not a nurse anymore, but um there were bad there bad nurses out there. I There are Oh my gosh. Oh my gosh. But there's parents, too. There's bad kids. And I don't mean bad in this.
I mean, I guess I there's some not great situations. There are there are estrange kids out there >> that were sexually and physically abused, >> right?
>> And for safety reasons, they're done.
Okay. Absolutely. These we these are not the cases we're talking about. I always want to tell people that we're not therapists and we're we're just trying to talk to the masses. There's no way that we can we can know your individual story.
>> But but you're right. I mean, when you find out there's got to be a strange kids out there that were like, I I had to walk away and I had no idea that so many people were doing this. It's just something that my heart said I had to do.
>> So, she can understand it in the in the case of actual abuse is what I heard her just say. And I've covered her before and we've talked about this before.
Great that you're not talking about those individuals and diminishing their experience. Wonderful of you. However, in saying that, you are diminishing the experience of the impact of emotional violence, emotional abuse.
Ergo, part of the problem with these points of view, echo chambers, lack of accountability and responsibility and understanding as to the impact of emotional abuse and emotional harm and what that looks like.
If you're only going to blanket it where it's these physical abuses, CSA, SA, physical abuses, that's good enough. The rest of it That's what that feels like to me. And she may not intentionally be doing that.
She may not understand that she's doing that. She needs to.
That's I would imagine the reason or portion a portion of the re the reason.
I'm not saying she was a child abuser. I don't know her son's experience. I wish I could have him on the podcast because I would love to give him a voice in particularly the face of them sharing their um experience as aranged parents and the things that they've said. Um like if you're not willing to acknowledge emotional abuse as being a valid reason, there's a problem in that. um the exception that they have around things like boundaries um well I can have boundaries too like it's very much the ego in the room and I don't understand your bound boundaries if I don't understand them then why would I follow them it's not for somebody else to understand your boundaries I don't want to talk about this thing let's not talk about this thing I I want to know why you're not letting me be me I'm not saying they've said this this is a theme that I come across us. I don't want you texting me 16 times a day while I'm trying to live life. You know, that's a control behavior. Not saying they did this. I have no idea. It's one of the things that I'm seeing um become part of the conversation of this manipulative, controlling relationship between a parent and their adult offspring that at some point becomes unbearable. Like, you know, asking the same questions over and over again. and barging their offspring with calls and whatever and I want to speak to you every day and actually I just did a podcast with Wolf Rick where he talks about that. He's like, "I didn't know I didn't have to call her every single day and be emotionally abused." I'm paraphrasing, by the way.
You know, that sort of thing. So, there's lots of different breakdowns in these relationships that happen that I can see why an aranged parent would go, "Well, I just wanted to connect."
And the adult offspring is saying, "Yeah, connect." like, but not 16 times a day. And they don't like that. They feel like they're being told what to do.
And okay, maybe in a way you are.
However, that doesn't mean that the other person, just because they're your child, the kid, doesn't have a right to create boundaries around the frequency of your communication or the way that you communicate.
There's pressure in that. There's guilt in that. There's manipulation in that.
There's control in that. And it happens more and more than like I'm seeing it more and more than I'd ever recognized it before.
And you can't step off and go, "Okay, well, I would like to be able to continue to do that. However, this other person who happens to be my kid is asking me not to do that." If a friend of yours asked you, you'd probably say, "No problem." But when it's your property, it's a problem. So, let's say I bring this into the conversation. How do you think that's going to play out?
Because that's what I'm looking at. I'm looking at is this going to be a situation where we're actually having a conversation or I'm going to be called a [ __ ] or a [ __ ] because those are words that Joe likes to use in reference to women. you know, like how do I know that this isn't going to be a twoon-one sort of thing that isn't going to bring about any benefit? I can handle two against one against one. it it's what I can't handle is if it has no benefit and I've just put myself like in front of a you know a firing squad for for no upside.
Well, that's just a colossal waste of my very valuable and precious time. I could be making videos for you, right?
Oh, see this is why I'm on the fence. I keep going back and forth. I'm more back than forth at this point. If they don't want to honor you, that's on them.
You're a mom and you're honored overall.
That's people supporting people. That's what we're talking about.
>> You know, one of the things I like about our group is um is you and I, we can have differing opinions and still respect one another. Um I don't um you know to me that's um it sounds very Oprahish.
I mean you know what I mean I'm not going to go any deeper on that at least in a public forum. Yeah. Bring it down. we're going. Um, and I think that there's the availability for, and I'm going to say it over and over and over, for aranged kids to connect with aranged parents and really learn from each other. I've learned so much from a strange from aranged kids and comments.
I can tell you that it has literally transformed how I do my videos. I did one a few weeks ago and man, I was massacred on it, Joe. And I was like, "What the?" And I looked and I went back one I went, "Oh, Chris, that's not a good look."
>> Like, if you're going to be honorable and you're going to be a good representation, those can't happen. So, I I I learned I learned, too. I I take those to heart because those help me tweak. Um I I am a believer that you learn every single day. And if you don't, what the [ __ ] were you doing that day, right?
>> Okay. Well, you have a your filter works way better than mine does. I mean, I try to think things through before I comment or reply to a comment. You know where I'm going with this?
>> Yeah. Why don't you go there? I'll take a drink.
>> You know what's so interesting about what she just said? So, she's saying that she takes feedback, but I haven't seen growth in her content in the way that she speaks about and to arranged kids using her words. Obviously, those aren't mine. So, I'm I'm going to I am going to take a little bit of a look and see if I can find what she's referencing because I'd love to see the growth. Um, at the same time, you know, they wrote me this this heartfelt request and at the end of this video, spoiler alert, I'm going to play it for you, though.
There's a reason. Uh, she states that she doesn't watch my content. So, which is it? You want to learn what you're not doing well or what is problematic or you don't?
Because it seems to me if you're as open as you say you are, why, and I think she has likely watched some of my content or maybe her producer has, why wouldn't you look at at what I'm talking about and even use it, feature it.
Why not?
When this whole thing happened with the the bullying and the harassment of, you know, the aranged parents who, you know, banded together and it's still a thing that's going on. I'm not literally I'm not watching any of their videos. Every now and again somebody sends me something and I know that it's there. I note it, but I'm just not engaging with it because there's nothing in it for me that's going to be helpful. if they were engaging with my content and doing what I do with the aranged parents and, you know, um, breaking it down and having commentary and not just using it as a way to insult me, you know, call me names, uh, make fun of my appearance and things like that, I would 100,000% have no problem engaging with it. None. And in fact, I would want to engage with it because I am open to actually growing and learning and we are growing and learning together. Some of us people who just blanket insult and also the fact that I made videos responding to that going, "No, no, this person lied about what I said in the video. Here's what I said." using the receipts and still they continued on and nobody had a constructive comment because they had no argument. That's what people do when they have no argument. It's like if Chris is really evolving, I'm not saying she's not looking to evolve.
In her mind, she might be looking to evolve. But if you are really evolving, then you ought to know that it's not appropriate to try to invite people to come on your podcast while simultaneously diminishing their intelligence and their points of view.
No. Yeah, maybe. Yes. See, there's that fence again. Do you see my dilemma here?
It might get cleared up at the end of this video.
So, the video that you posted, the very personal video that you posted yesterday to and I assume it went on all of your platforms, I'll be damn if the haters, you know, some of the haters didn't sneak through and some of them called you a name and I called him a worse name.
>> You know, that's the that's the I I love and I love you for and support you for for doing that here. here. I feel really bad for those people that choose to do that. I've got this really cool invention. Can I show you?
>> Yeah.
>> I can't even take credit for it.
Let me get on the screen. Right.
I keep scrolling.
>> I can't let that get in my head. And I I am not going to speak about the video. I said I would make a comment once and that's all what all I will say about said video.
>> Yeah. But I can talk about it. Rule.
Took me a long time to get to that point. They I got pushed against the wall to the point yesterday I was like >> enough's enough.
>> I'm I'm I'm done. I will make and I've been asked for probably over a month to make a comment and I was like no like I don't need to justify myself.
Unfortunately in social media sometimes you do. Are there people that don't like me? Yeah. There's billions of people out there. Go find somebody else that can impact and support your life.
>> Yeah.
>> Come ask me if I'll comment. You'll get a comment from me. I can assure you.
>> Yeah. People that are asking you, come ask me.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, just so you guys know, if you want to if you want to off the cuff ready to go comment. Yeah. And that's what I love about our our relationship. It is a relationship. It's a partnership that we really we me we message. We're talking about different things. We're talking about life, you know, getting to know um Melissa a little bit. She's phenomenal.
You know, I mean, lives intersect and lives should intersect, >> right?
>> Um because different life experiences made you who you are. And when you talk, I go, gosh, I didn't even think about it like that.
And that's I don't care how many people screenshot about how you came ac this this. I'm not People think I'm a [ __ ] but I'm not. Um I know I saw the screenshots. I know you spoke to to me and another person.
>> Um I probably approached it very different than that other person, but I don't know because I wasn't part of those conversations. And quite honestly, I don't care. Um We we lined up for whatever reason >> because we're awesome.
>> We are. But but I but I really didn't know what I wanted. Um I had other people I had multiple people asking me to be part of the podcast. What really excited me about you being on it, not only the fact that you were just like I'm just going to say it, was the fact that you have a male perspective, >> right? And I I think that there are a lot of men that are thinking what you're saying and sometimes we live in society where well if you're a man you don't cry.
[ __ ] >> [ __ ] >> You know what I mean? You can be a man's man and be tough as nails and and and have all these different thoughts about life >> and still sit on the back porch and be devastated. And I think that is amazing that you're vulnerable enough to be there. And and people are like, "How much do you really know about this Joe guy?" I'm like, "Thank you for your thoughts. It's it's it's it's I I appreciate it. I I gather all that information, but I'm like, but I I know you like I I you're you know, if I ask you a question, you're going to give me an answer. I might not like it, but you're going to give it to me."
>> Yeah. And I'm not going to pretend uh that I don't have a checkered past.
>> No.
>> You have lived experience.
>> A lot. Rich says, "I just transferred my aranged daughter's phone number to my ex-husband, and this involved being on the telephone with him, and he hasn't been in touch with me the whole time since she's gone.
I can barely feel my legs right now."
I'm so flipping proud of you, Rachel, because it's hard to dip your toe back into a a a bad situation, but you do. I understand exactly. you you have to it's it's scary to do some of those things that you just don't want to do.
>> You know, that is um here's a a strange perspective. That is one thing that um I do respect about my daughter, right?
She's on our company plan. She was on our company plan um through Verizon. And I told her um I said many times over the years I told her said, "Baby, I don't give a [ __ ] If you're 15 or 50, you're never going to have to pay a cell phone bill. It can stay on our contract.
You've got that number for life. It's yours. I'll cover it." And when the estrangement happened, when she made that decision, she's like, "Fuck you and your phone." And went and got her own phone. I was like, "Well, I can respect that."
>> Exactly. And that's true accountability.
I'm absolutely going to applaud her because there are many people, many people that don't do that.
>> Let me see what she >> And Pat says, "Yeah, wow. Rachel shows how strong you are." And we are like, "We don't have much of a choice." People like, "You're so strong."
>> Um, was there another option? I think many of us choose the option in the beginning. We feel very victimized. Um, and it's up to us to get out of that.
That's it's not a good look. It's not a good look.
>> My dad um who as you know we're talking about technically my stepdad but man definitely I mean him and I definitely did not have the same personality >> right >> at all. He was very fly on the wall, very blend into the crowd, go with the flow. Um and I'm very follow me, I'll show you how we're going to [ __ ] this up, you know. No.
>> Um but um because of him um you know I'm a person who has a lot of love in my heart. I have a lot of compassion. I have an extremely giving and generous spirit.
And I owe that to him.
>> Plain and simple. I owe that to him. He always taught me above everything else in this world, love is the most important thing. where as you know I tried to pass that on to my kids but they were also watching what I was doing and >> while they were growing up I was so laser focused on on work that you know everything else I'm kind of >> being vulnerable right now everything else was um you know kind of secondary because I was so laser focused on that and I thought Well, if I'm providing uh very well for my family, then my family's healthy and in good shape.
>> Yeah, it's those those moments those moments you absolutely don't.
>> Yeah, that attitude will wind you will get you in a strange child.
>> It will. It will. Okay, so Rachel answered us. She says, "I was paying for her her cell phone for six years.
She's not going to talk to me. I don't want to be reminded of her. So, I transferred it. I am so flipping proud.
God, people I when I listen to people on lives, they have these buttons and they do like the clapping, people in the background clapping. I wish we had that, right, Mo? Because that had to be a flipping hard place to get to.
But you have to take those barriers away. I talk about it occasionally. Um, I I am I'm in a bedroom that's now my full-time office and I have slowly made it my office for many many months. If I look directly in front of me, it was my grandkid's bunk bed and it made me sad every single day because you have to get to that level of of acceptance. Doesn't mean you're not going to go backwards some days and have different feelings, but pretty much you're like, I'm not going to be able to change this. This is what it is. I need to be able to move forward. We've talked about it many times in the past that you know there is whether you've lost a child physically or not. Uh grief is a huge part of estrangement. It's just a huge part of it. And along with that are the five stages of grief, right? And even though I feel like I've accepted it and it's, you know, whatever, I'm moving on with my life. Um, I still have those days. Denial, I still have that.
>> Anger that pops up every once in a while.
>> Sure does.
>> Um, you know, um, then I'll go to acceptance and, you know, you you still have those, but >> for the most part, I live in acceptance, but those other days do pop up for sure.
>> Well, and you're you're going to be in just a few months here coming up in six years with your son.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> So, are you are you talking about that as well or are you talking more about arangement?
>> More about estrangement, I guess.
>> Do you ever go through those stages about your son?
>> Definitely. Definitely.
>> And it it doesn't mean that you're sitting in the level of grief. People need to understand that's I specifically made my business grief and healing because I think if you're being honest, th those people never completely go away in our heart or or our brain. if she ever reaches out, I'll figure out how to deal with it then.
>> Right.
>> Yeah. It's not that you're saying, "Nope, never gonna happen." And and I and I I think of that occasionally. I think if I'm being honest, you people are like, "I'm never going to." And I'm like, "Do I think it's going to happen?"
100% no. Well, I would say 0.1. And I don't remember the movie, but my husband always says, "It's so You're saying there's a chance."
>> And Dumb and Dumber.
>> Yeah. So, you're saying there's a chance. Um, but it's but it's but it's true. I mean it. Yeah. I mean it's possible, but I can't live my life of what that conversation would be or how I would handle it.
>> It gives me anxiety, Chris, to be honest with you.
>> It absolutely gives me anxiety. Um, do I want that? Um, yeah. On on one level, uh, yeah, I want that more than anything in the world.
>> Yeah. She's part of your heart, >> right? a a huge part of it. Um but on the other hand, um I just I get so much anxiety thinking about it because I I don't see a path forward. I don't I mean I I think her and I Me >> I think her and I can be um amicable toward one another. I think there's potential there for that. Um, I don't know if I don't know if I'll I'll ever be able to let go of the resentment toward her for what she's done to our relationship.
>> Um, anybody that knows me knows that.
>> And there in lies a part of the problem for what she's done to our relationship.
So, I don't know if it was in this video or another one. I've watched different p bits and pieces. And when I started to make this video today, I wasn't actually thinking I was going to feature them.
And then as I thought about it, I'm like, "Okay, I I'm I want you all to see what I'm seeing." And here's the thing.
You have any right to your feelings.
Like, I'm not here to say you don't have a right to feel that way or anything like that.
I do want to point out though that the anger and resentment you have for in this case his daughter walking away um it's like maybe you're looking at it like she destroyed the relationship or she did that to you and that's a really common way of thinking and feeling for a strange parents. However, when her brother, his son passed away, and he has said this, and I am not judging him for this, let me be very clear.
Like, I can't imagine, and I'm grateful, I can't imagine being in that position.
I can imagine wanting to self-medicate or find any way out of that grief, right? And he started drinking heavily.
And this is what he said. So I'm not pulling this, you know, from the sky or anything like that.
He does acknowledge that he wasn't there to help his daughter through that time.
And that's got to live somewhere for her.
That's pretty devastating.
Um there's a part in the video um where he talks about, you know, he was providing for his family and working and not really engaged. So, you know, you have a relationship that's um one of yeah, dad took care of stuff, but he wasn't really around, not really connected by his own expression. And then at a time that this daughter needed him emotionally, great, you pay my phone bill, Dad. Here I am. He's drinking and I'm guessing I'm I'm I'm extracting that he got sober. Did he get sober or did he, you know, uh, lessen his drinking? I don't know. I don't know what that looked like. And I'm not going to, you know, try to extract something from facts that I haven't seen for myself. I will say though, if he didn't get sober sober where he completely stopped drinking and he went through an experience, his daughter went through an experience where he was drinking heavily, it's going to be very triggering and scary for her to be in a relationship with a dad who didn't stop altogether. I don't know if that's the case. I do know that he has a great problem, as it is in one of their other videos, with respecting her boundaries because it seems to me that if he doesn't agree with them, they are invalid and he's the parent and, you know, he talks about being put in the corner and so there is a big ego thing, uh, power struggle going on here and so he feels like what I'm extracting from this, his daughter's done something to him that he's owed a an apology for when you know that's going to be a big part of what stands in the way of healing what created a situation where your own daughter felt the need to walk away from you. So, you're getting it backwards.
And not to worry um about having that anxiety because at the end of the day, if your daughter watches any number of your videos, as I've watched your videos, she's not coming back because you're showing her what she would be coming back to. And it's not an emotionally safe, evolved parent that she probably needs, that we would all need. It's not someone who understands that there is also an order to things.
If somebody has to walk away from you because you don't respect their boundaries and because you're not being a safe person for them, how is it that you can possibly think they would owe you an apology because you're angry that they walked away. Like that math doesn't math for me. And those are the things that I would like to be see there's the fence again. I would like to be able to talk about and point out because they also have an audience of people who are vulnerable who need to hear that message.
See my conundrum? Do you see it? Cuz I'm feeling it.
You know, her and I were pretty close.
We did a lot of [ __ ] together. Um, you know, it was kind of her go-to. And um you know that's that's gone and it's never coming back. The relationship that we had I have accepted that it's gone and it's never coming back. And I'm resentful >> toward about that. I just am. So I don't know that I'm going to be the guy that is going to welcome her with open arms.
Um and okay, that's behind us. Let's go back to how we were. Well, >> how we were >> broken >> and but I bet you you would be the guy that if she doesn't hold you accountable for the things that happened, you'd be happy to be able to move forward in a relationship. There's a double standard in there and I didn't clock that the first time I heard it. You know, we can't wipe out what you did to me by walking away. We can wipe out what I did to you that caused you to walk away. and I'm reading between the lines. He may not feel that way. Indicators are though to me that's exactly what I'm seeing.
Huh. Wow. Okay. So, how could you do that?
>> Right. Right.
>> Do you what I hear you saying is you know what I I have put my guard up a little bit now and now I have a boundary which I think is very very healthy. I always tell people if it's giving you anxiety when they reach out hopefully it's in a text message where you have time to think about it.
>> This is a woman who calls boundaries eraser literally just so you know.
Hilarious.
So it's healthy when you want a boundary but not healthy when they want a boundary. Noted >> time to think about it. If it's in if it's in a call voicemail is a great option for you to gather your thoughts.
>> Yeah. And it kind of it would kind of depend on where I'm at in that stage of grief on that day, right?
>> Exactly. Probably not a good eye to answer. Maybe wait.
>> If she catches me on an acceptance day, you know, I'll probably let it simmer for a little bit. Think out my response.
If she catches me on those one of those anger days, I might hit send before I even think about it. Hey, you little [ __ ] And you think about what you did.
So, you don't have the ability to regulate based on where you are in that moment and figure out how to constructively respond to this daughter that you said you love so much. And what did that look like in her growing up life?
What did that look like when you were in your grief and she was in her grief over the loss of of your son? And that would actually be understandable. I I don't again I don't know like I'm just pointing that out because there are things that it's obvious to me his daughter must have experienced if he bases his response on his ability or inability to regulate. And again, let me be very clear. I am not judging how he may or may not have acted um when his child died. Like, you know, I I wouldn't even begin to go there.
What I'm chiming in on is the fact that you recognize you weren't there for your daughter and yet you want an apology from her for walking away from her from you because she felt hurt by you, right?
And so that's what I'm chiming in on.
I'm not chiming in on how he handled his grief or, you know, what happened in that period. I'm chiming in on, okay, but what did you do about that? Because it seems to me that what you're doing about that now is you're holding on to your hurt that you have a right to the point where there's not enough space for you to show up as her dad, as her parent, and say, "Okay, let's work on you first."
And what I wish that these aranged parents would understand is that when you do that and your relationship starts to build back up and you start to enjoy having your adult offspring back, your need to be seen and acknowledged and validated from by them often times changes because in that relationship ship the new phase of your relationship. You're experiencing those things in real time in a positive way where that hurt just fades away and where you also for me personally I recognized that I didn't need validation nor was it appropriate to get validation from my offspring any number of them. I have three, two daughters and a son. Um, and there was a point in time where I wish that they understood and saw me and all the things. I went through all those feelings. I didn't impose that on them.
That was kind of an internal thing. It was only my eldest, only my eldest that I had the arangement with over 20 years ago. And you know, it's in those moments of kind of like um they don't appreciate all I'm doing for them when I had no road map and all those things that I would want to be seen and understood and all all those things. And I didn't ask for that.
I carried those feelings with me. And as time have has gone on, none of that is important to me. And here's the kicker.
My kids come back to me now. My adult offspring come I don't like to call them kids. Um, my son and my daughters, my they come back to me now and go, you know, like my my youngest said to me the other day, you know, I don't think we ever realized that you didn't have a mom to show you how to I'm going to cry.
And it was like this out of the blue moment in time that she said that to me.
And we were having just conversation about when my eldest was uh at at her sickest point. So, my eldest has a chronic disease called Gaus's disease.
I'll put it here. You can Google it, whatever. And um our family went through a really horrific time and she wasn't supposed to see her 9th birthday. So, like just all these moving pieces and I had to learn how to advocate for my child when I had no example of what that looked like. So, it was part of a bigger conversation.
These things will happen naturally depending I think on the relationship that you have with your offspring. And your need for these things will also diminish naturally depending on the relationship that you have with your offspring. And what I find in situations like this is they want what they want when they want it without having to do something to lay the groundwork to get it to actually maybe even understand what they want and why they want it.
Like I always say to people, you know, when you have that need to be seen and heard and all of that and prove yourself and overshare and all the things, you need to step back and go, what am I really looking for here? What do I really need? is a good question to ask yourself. What do I really need here to understand why you're doing what you're doing so that you're doing things in the right way for you?
So, yeah. Okay. And how do you use your saying your daughter and [ __ ] in the same sentence ever?
Ever, let alone on social media? And see, there's me going back, flipping back over, going, "Do I want to be in the presence of a man who could call anybody a [ __ ] let alone his own daughter?" And the answer becomes no.
Do I want to be connected to someone that I can't respect?
And the answer becomes no.
Is there a greater good that's worth me making that compromise? then the answer becomes no.
So here I am going in the no.
Let's see if that changes.
>> Someone said all I hope for is to see the grandkids again. And that's a separate thought, right?
>> It's that layer. God. And that for me is the hardest layer. Um because >> a majority of the time we have people that say, "Yeah, the grandkids want nothing to do." Is it because of third party influence? I don't know. But I think many grandkids either never got to know their grand their grandparent and they really do want to know them. They want to be able to make decisions for themselves. They might not even be old enough to make that decision or they were in their life which you and I are on opposite ends.
You have a grandchild you've never met, >> right?
>> And man, how would you love to influence and help mold that mind? I did. and it aches me to not be part of that. So that's a completely different level. I completely agree with that with that with that um viewer.
>> Well, you know, >> so you completely agree with the fact that a parent can go, well, I just want the grandkids. I'm over my kid.
Is Is that what she's saying?
Also, you know, notable that Chris used her grandchildren as pawns in the arangement to manipulate their father into speaking to her.
So, you know, let's remember that this did not happen in a vacuum that you lost access to your grandchildren because it seems to me from what she shared in another video where they were talking about begging, which was really cyberstalking, sending, you know, copious amounts of daily emails and all of that. Um, that wasn't something that Chris did.
Candy went in the direction of volume, email, text every day for a solid year really like not having any recognition of how that must have landed and impacted her son. She just went into this is what I did. And I get that they're trying to relate and they are relating to people who are behaving in the same way. Where they're falling so short on doing any good with that relating is not pointing out, you know, I regret doing that because I'm embarrassed by that and all the things.
And and I I'm pretty sure Candi did say that. Um, how about the part though of I fail to recognize the impact on my in that case son.
And the same goes for Chris and this is that thing that I see in these estrangement communities where they'll talk about what they did because they're all commiserating together and they're not talking about the impact of what they did so that they can do better.
That's a problem.
And when Chris was estranged one, two, three times from her son, at some point in there, it sounds very much like because of what she shared, she did have interaction with her daughter-in-law and her grandchildren.
And what did she do with that interaction?
she attempted to use them as as tools to gain access to her son.
I wonder if she sees any problem with that, if she has feelings around that.
And so what would lean me into going on the podcast is to see that being acknowledged so that I know this isn't just, you know, one of those situations of ah, you know, and nothing good comes out of it. Whether we want to admit it or talk about it or what there's a very real possibility that the parents have told the have you know put it into the kid that your your grandbaby that hey this is why we don't go around grandma or grandpa because they're awful human beings and this and that and run down the list like you know I did it to my daughter. I sat her down when she was very young. Um, and I think it's still instilled into her to this day. I sat her down when she was very young and I said, "Look, here's why we don't like the Cincinnati Bengals." Boom, boom, boom, boom. And I went down the list. We are Steelers.
>> And she realizes it's a lie. Maybe, you know. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> Um, so if I did that, >> so much fun. Certainly they're capable of doing the same. This is why we don't like grandma or grandpa or grandma and grandpa.
>> Are you [ __ ] with me? Right. What?
Huh?
You're equating brainwashing a kid to like your sports team. Let's call it what it is. Go Habs.
Go. So my kids Yeah. Mhm. Um, that's a thing to a parent exposing their own child to information that isn't necessary for them to understand that sometimes we just can't have relationships with people even if there are relatives. You're equating those two things.
Look, I'm sure there's cases because there's all sorts of people in in in the world, right? parents who maybe in a misguided way or they have their own stuff where they vilify someone or go overboard on information that shouldn't be given um regarding like the grandparents.
I'm equally sure though that the majority and I take that even just from our comment section in the majorities and people that I've met and myself my lived experience and all the things that in most of these cases we are insulating our children from the dynamics in these relationships. I mean, that's part of the reason we're estranging. And in order to do so, by and large, not vilifying, vilifying, villainizing, not smear campaigning, right? Um, our own parents that we've estranged from that are the grandparents of our children.
rather explaining it in ways that are um appropriate to their maturity, responding to their questions and hopefully clarifying what do you mean by that question before we do that and keeping it short and and simplifying it so that they aren't overly focused on coming from some lineage of somebody who is really maybe in some cases like my others heinous, right? Like my kids didn't know the majority and I know I'm not everyone. I do know that this is a majority rules thing though. My kids had no idea the depths of my mother's evilness. They really didn't because it wasn't necessary and it wasn't age appropriate or maturity appropriate. It wasn't some like to me doing all that kind of sharing and information is taking a piece of my child's innocence away and why would I do that when I'm trying to preserve their innocence by you know not exposing them to th those dynamics and this is yet another one of those things of this sort of assumption particularly from people who are willing to use other people as tools and willing to smear campaign someone to get what they want.
They're projecting that onto the situation of their own offspring who's walked away doing that with their children as well when that's a part of the cycle that their children are likely trying to break. Their adult offspring are trying to break.
Again, this is what puts me back in the fence of going, that's what I want to say. That's what I want to share. That's what I want to expand on. and having the ability to reach arange parents who might get blinded by this type of sharing.
I'm still leaning more towards the no though because I can't get over the the fact that I cannot respect this man. I I you know and I I I don't want to be in the vicinity of someone that I can't respect. I it's just it's a it's a problem for me and I'm fine with that being a problem for me, >> you know.
>> Would you would if you could go back and we can't would you change that >> about the Bengals?
>> No. That because that's just ridiculous about your daughter.
>> No.
>> Okay, that's fair. when I went to church with my my aunt and grandma.
>> Mhm.
>> And I actually got engaged um to my high school sweetheart and he was Catholic and I really felt it was important to have the the same religion and I had always always embraced it anyway. So I actually became Catholic. Um but there are things that I disagree with the with the Baptist um section and there's there's things I disagree about with a with a Catholic. I'm not a I I'm all in on just because you're Catholic, just because you know you're Republican or Democratic, which I'm not I'm not politically voice voicing either, but I have my own thoughts.
>> I don't I don't really understand um nor have I done the research. I don't really understand the difference in in all of the religions. Catholicism, Baptists, Lutheran, Episcopalians, Methodists, all of that. I don't really understand the difference between them.
One thing I do understand unequivocally without question is Jesus Christ is my Lord and Savior. That's it.
and and what other what churches do and and everything. I can possibly care less.
>> I know where I'm at with Jesus. So, >> to me, that's a one-on-one conversation and I don't need to explain it to anyone else. Other people feel different and and that's absolutely fine. Let's see.
>> Shelley says, "That's the part I struggle with. Will I have resentment if we tried amicably to see if it's a good fit? Mostly because I don't think amicable is good enough for me.
>> Probably. You're probably my opinion.
You're probably going to have resentment.
>> Well, and I I I think it depends because again, a relationship is two people.
both have to be readily emotionally and physically and psychologically ready to own their own [ __ ] >> Um to make amends of whatever it is and not that we're asking you to, you know, take that pill and forget, but the forgiveness has to be integral. Like I'm not going to discuss this in two years again.
>> I told you my stance. You told me your stance. I love you. Let's let's figure out a way. And for a lot of people that's that's parents find their voice and you know we do this crazy thing. I know you did it Joe because we've talked about it and I and I did it.
So I'm going to discuss this thing that hurt you one time. It's a one-time offer only. And then if we get resolution in that I'm adding that in because you know I'm ju just am. And then because we've done that, if you ever bring it up again, I'm never discussing it again.
Even though you're bringing it up and obviously I'm not talking about throw in the face manipulation, blah blah blah, and weaponizing and all the things. I'm talking about like you did something to hurt someone else. Let's take the children parent dynamic out of it. And something occurs to them and they want closure around something or something reminds them or impacts them and and they bring it up in the room again.
You're like offended by that. And that's like, no, I I told you two years ago just because it still impacts you today.
And that's a problem. You know, it's a problem. I don't think that anybody should be holding somebody something over somebody's head as a manipulation or for a lifetime or anything like that.
This is not that. I am saying that there are times I've experienced this with my all of my adult offspring where something will happen and it's like a thing that I apologize for that I owned that I didn't repeat and whatever and something will happen and they'll go yeah I learned this from that that still lives with me in this way and I have no problem and I think a lot of us would have no problem in going yeah that really sucks and I'm sorry I'm sorry I left you with that legacy I've sometimes brought things up that they've resolved and I'm like, you know, I look at that and I realize I taught you that thing and that was wrong. Why does it have a shelf life? What is it about that that's problematic for you?
If it's gotten resolved, if it hasn't been resolved to the other person's satisfaction, that's problematic for you because you're not doing what needs to be done to actually have it resolved.
speaking about it sometimes is just not enough. And so you want to be rigid and have this safety net without actually supplying that same safety. That's what that feels like to me. And that's a part of the problem. That's why, you know, a strange adult offspring, myself included, flip in and out and in and out because they're looking for that resolution. They're not getting it.
They're trying to get it and the other person doesn't want to give it. So they flip out again because it's like I don't mean flip out. I mean, flip out because it's like, well, I'm just talking to a wall of a person who thinks that they've resolved this for me and they're not listening to the fact it's not been resolved or they're repeating the behavior or they're not respecting the boundaries.
You know, all the things all the that this is all the things in in two different people and even in some cases perspectives. And on the resentment note, okay, so you have resentment. What do you do with it? Do you go to therapy and work it out or do you hold it against the person? Do you act it out or is it something that you just live with and you learn how to figure it out?
Because if it's bleeding over onto your relationship, that's an unresolved feeling that you need to deal with because we're all responsible for our individual feelings, right?
And again, having resentment for somebody walking away from you in the face of your behavior, your things that you weren't showing up to make it so that they wanted to be around you.
You know, you can have those feelings.
It doesn't match the situation, though.
Your feelings are valid. You're hurt.
You feel like maybe after all I did for you, this is the only thing you can see.
Like it it's complicated. It's not black or white. There's a difference though between having feelings and acting upon those feelings or acting out.
See, that's what I want to bring into the room. again, >> you sit and you recall all these conversations just trying to figure out where where the crack happened.
>> Um, and I'm very well aware of it, but I I apologize for those things and and I and I made changes and in the end it just wasn't good enough, >> right?
>> And so if that's the case, I'm never going to make it good enough, >> but that's not for me to own any longer.
And I think >> that's because you have boundary issues though. You know, relationships aren't as hard as a lot of people make them out to be if there's basic decency and respect for boundaries. And the fact that you could use your grandchildren as pawns in this um says that yeah, you might have resolved those things.
However, you weren't above or above might be the wrong word. I'm just going to use it for now until I think of the right word. you weren't above using other people to get your needs met. And so it it says to me that there's likely other things that that you were doing because you look at the world that way that you created new situations for yourself.
Um and referring to boundaries as eraser, right? Things like that. The way that you view boundaries that are set for you, not the ones you set, those are healthy. it. Those are the problems.
There are behavioral problems in existence here that okay, great. You apologized for that thing. You took maybe accountability for that thing because apologizing is not always about accountability. Sometimes it's about placating, right? It's about just getting what you want. So, if you're operating from a point of view where you're just making sure you get what you want, that's a lack of growth in actual evolution.
in real time, in real life.
Again, those are my thoughts. Am I right?
Do I need to be right? No. Um, it's just what I'm seeing, though.
And I'm not taking this from like I'm taking it from what I'm hearing and from my knowledge of Chris's history in particular because I've covered her in videos before. Right.
>> I think I I finally get to point like no I I'm in the conversation too and and I do have emotion. And you know what?
Flip off because it is about me sometimes.
>> Yeah. I was so tired of being told it's not about you. Sometimes it is.
This is a twoperson relationship. It should be about both.
>> And not only that, I mean, and this is kind of this is uh this may not be received well with some people.
>> It is a two person relationship.
However, you diminish kids.
So, let's not forget that, right? So, while you're trying to be heard, are you invalidating the other person? And you know, if your son is saying it's not all about you, is that what he's saying? Or is he saying, you know, I'm trying to get you to see me right now. This isn't about you. Because context matters. And chances are that's what the situation was. And there's a time and place, right, when somebody's coming to you because they're hurting and they're looking for resolution around that.
They're looking for healing around that.
And then you're making it about you and explaining it away. Now, it's about what you want. It's not about the person in front of you and what they need from you. And that's where the problems come in. It's not that we as parents don't have a right to be seen as human beings and heard and felt for and all those things. It's about the fact that there is a time and place for those things.
And as parents, I mean, as humans, right? You go to someone and you're looking for them to take ownership and and build safety around something they've done to hurt you, to ensure that they don't do it again, and they start talking about where they were in that process. How are you going to feel about that?
That's that empathy piece of put yourself in the other person's shoes.
You need to be heard and they're making sure that you hear them.
Time, place, order. Super important in these relationships. Particularly particularly parent to offspring.
It's a different role. We have a different set of rules.
They aren't there to support our emotional well-being. They didn't bring us into the world. We're there to support theirs. And our support comes from our peer groups, our adult connections beyond their adulthood. And better yet, therapy.
And I do think that Chris has stated that she's gone to therapy. And listen, I don't know the before version of Chris. I don't know her evolution. I just know where I see she is currently.
And this exception around things like boundaries, uh, it just makes me question why why is that such a sticking point and how how is it that boundaries and eraser are in the same sentence? I would really like to understand that which is again why I would be like, can you explain that to me? I don't trust that things would not fall to the editing room floor. However, if I were to go on, I would be also filming it and using it on my platforms so that things aren't edited out. I in no world would I do it without that being a thing where I had ownership over the content as well. Um, in no universe, under no circumstances would I do that because that would just be stupid. There's also the other facet to um to it with me is hey [ __ ] I'm the parent here. I'm the parent here. You're not going to put me in timeout or punish me and then decide when when I'm done being grounded and then we're going to go back to everything's fine. You know, there's uh we got a lot of work to do on that.
He's going to be a strange forever. If his daughter just sees that one snippet, it's over. It's done. It's dusted. And rightfully so. First of all, [ __ ] twice. Hey, [ __ ] That's how you speak of your your adult daughter. That's disgusting. That's just vile. Um I'm the parent.
Um biologically, you're the parent.
Um, you're not in a parent role anymore because your daughter is an adult and that's part of the problem. Um, and I I said biologically just for the title of parent. I mean could be a steparent, whatever. I I'm not going into the DNA factor of it. I'm just saying you are in the position of parent because you parented that child. And in this case, biologically, yes, he is the parent. Um, I I just want to clear that up.
I will forever be the parent of my adult offspring. I will never be in a parental role ever again.
Does it mean that they never look at me in that parental role? No. It means I don't look at me being over them as I'm parenting them. They're also not my friends. They are my my my children.
They are my children, you know. And I'm not saying it in that diminishing, oh, they don't know blah blah blah. I mean they teach me things all the time.
I am not large and in charge anymore. We have evolved into adult relationships where we respect each other as adults. I respected them when they were children.
They respected me when they were children. Now we respect each other as seasoned adults from different seasons.
This that's [ __ ] right there. what he just did, what he just said, how he and he already knew it. He and and and the fact that he knows it, it's like he knows it, but do you know it's wrong? And do you know why it's wrong? And do you understand that that one statement just put all the nails in the coffin? Because you want to be large and in charge rather than being in a reciprocal um relationship.
Iron fist. That's what I see in that.
He just called his daughter a [ __ ] twice.
And and like I can hear it now. It's just figure his speech in what [ __ ] world?
Oh wow. See, there's the no that I go back into the no. I think the no is going to win, >> you know. And I'll be honest with you, I want a [ __ ] apology.
>> There you go. And that's and that's honesty. Do you think um because I think we have a lot of viewers and I'm going to go back to the comments here, but do you think how do I put this? I okay in my case I think that my son's death probably contributed sah hard feelings because I think that my son it might have been perceived that he was elevated to this saintthood because he died >> my son Nate was not perfect anybody that's aren't here that knows him God comment come on you know he did he wasn't he would do these things I'd be like I'm right here I just saw you do this he's like no you didn't like but I did you You know, he was a little [ __ ] sometimes. Love him dearly. I was a little [ __ ] sometimes. My other [ __ ] you know, I got called call you a little kid an [ __ ] Whatever. All imperfect people. Um, but you know, you >> I stand by your comment. The story in context and the story that you were telling your son was being an [ __ ] >> And guess what? Sometimes I was a [ __ ] like >> do you okay so they talk about the son that passed away um in in such a way that this man feels that it's appropriate for her to call to say her son was being an [ __ ] He didn't call him an [ __ ] Does anybody else see a problem with that?
I don't even know what to say to that.
I understand what she's saying is like um you know I elevated maybe I elevated my son to a status that made her other son who lost his brother feel some kind of way. However, that ain't it in my opinion because that sun came in three different times because that sun tried to have a relationship with you because you call boundaries eraser and you have very strong feelings against boundaries and and against being able to heal somebody's wounds without bringing your wounds into the room. And I'm paraphrasing this is what I'm extracting from just this video alone. However, there's also other backstory videos. the way that she diminishes, you know, um, emotional abuse and things like that.
And I'm not saying she abused her son or sons or anything like that. I'm just saying her attitudes do paint a picture and and tell a story and to allow that door to be open for this man to walk through to reference her own son that way. I'm offended and she's not, which I think is just kind of wow.
She opened the door though, you know, and and there's just this lack of of sensitive sensitivity, appropriate behavior. I don't know. I don't know where to put that. I I might be making a second video just about that alone because it it it I have a problem with it. I just do. And listen, my problem isn't his problem.
His problems are not my problem. My problem right now is figuring out what I'm going to do with this. And I'm leaning so far towards a no. As as I'm commenting, as I this is how I'm processing this, right? I'm still open to all of your input.
The final say obviously will have to be my final say because I'm the one who has to live with the consequences of my actions and my decisions.
Joe Pat says, "Joe, I so agree with all of that. I have such anxiety even thinking my girls would ever come back.
>> I honestly hope they don't ever reach out. I now have a happy life."
>> I I definitely understand that perspective and I don't know um you know I don't know if I wish that my daughter wouldn't reach out. I don't I don't know if I'm there. I haven't given that a lot of thought. I just know I have a lot of anxiety over it and I know that I'm going to have my own set of stipulations or boundaries, if you will. Um, but you know, um, I can say honestly and unequivocally, I'm okay if she doesn't, you know.
>> Yeah, I know who the [ __ ] I am, you know? I'm okay. I'm fine without her. I was fine before her. I'm fine after her.
>> A little broken and hurt because that >> a lot broken.
>> I'm gonna reply to uh one of the questions on my streaming this on my >> personal page as well.
My cousin asked me, "How does your wife feel about this whole situation? Does she feel torn between the two of you?"
Um, here's a development that I have not um I don't think I've even shared it with you, Chris, and I apologize if I already have, but I am going to address this >> for um as I spit stuff all over my computer screen.
>> Yeah, you're spinning it yourself, so it's fine. Um, so for two years, um, it sucked not only for me, it sucked equally as bad for my wife. Um, and and I've I've talked about that. You know, I was the one that was cut out, not my wife. And, you know, with with those two, life just went on as as normal, right? And and then um you know I kind of um let's see uh I kind of snapped one day.
I mean not in a you know violent way and you know kicking the dogs and throwing stuff through the front window. Not like that. But you know >> you hit your end point.
>> I I did. That's exactly right. Yeah.
Yeah.
>> Yeah. I remember.
>> And uh I said I I I I just I cannot go on like this anymore. I can't do it. And you know, in the very beginning of the estrangement, um our daughter um gave my wife the ultimatum. It's him or me. Uh you stay with him and I'm out of your life. And my wife handled that very gracefully.
She said, "That is an extremely unfair expectation, request, demand, and I'm not going to do it." Um, so you know, life went that way for two years up until a month ago. And, um, my wife had the conversation with her. She said, um, I'm with your dad. That's the love of my life and always will be and we're going to be together and, um, I'm not going to subject him to this anymore. and um they haven't had a conversation since.
>> So at the beginning of the estrangement for the last two years, his daughter has been able to have a relationship with her mother, his wife, and the daughter gave her mother an ultimatum. Why?
See, these are those things, right?
We're not going to say why. Of course not. Uh, was he drinking at the time?
Was it because the daughter wanted her to just simply choose sides out of thin air? Was it something in the way that the daughter felt the mother was being treat? Like, we don't know. We don't know, right? Um, we do know based on what he just said that there was an ultimatum and it's apparent that given that the mother didn't leave him, his wife didn't leave him, that she was able to continue in a relationship with her daughter until when did you clock it until he lost it? He couldn't do it anymore. So, he couldn't watch or live with the fact that his wife property.
I'm not saying he treats her like property, but I don't know. Like, I got to wonder a guy who calls his own daughter a [ __ ] What does that look like in the way, you know, I have to I have I have wonderings, all sorts of wonderings. Um, and see if I could go on the podcast and ask questions behind the questions, behind these statements that I would be all about.
I doubt that I would be allowed to do that.
And so, you know, there's that aspect.
So, again, I'm leaning back on the no.
Uh, I wish that I could do that because those are the important conversations.
It's not these overarching statements.
It's what's underneath them. you know, the iceberg. What's underneath? What's going on? You snap one day. Great. You weren't throwing things, but you have an emotional whatever.
Entitled to your feelings and all the things. No problem. We're all entitled to feel what we feel and express what we expressed.
Blah blah blah. I mean, with boundaries, right? Boundaries are important. Uh he snaps one day and the next thing you know his wife the mother of his daughter chooses to walk away and is also not going to have a relationship with the grandchildren or grandchild child either and he sees that as loyalty I think and you're good with that. So you rather have the loyalty of your wife standing by your side than have the knowledge that your wife is able to enjoy a relationship with both her husband and her daughter.
And don't forget they lost a son and that the daughter is able to have her mom. You rather her stand in solidarity. Why?
Why wouldn't you support this poor woman who also lost a son being able to enjoy both relationships and not do anything to impact that and just be a grownup and handle your own [ __ ] emotional fallout from that. Go to therapy.
That is so selfish. No, self-centered. I like selfish. Selfish is healthy. That is so self-centered. That's I would love I'm Please give me your comments on that. I want to see what the comments section what our community thinks about this.
When my eldest wasn't talking to me, I was so grateful that she was speaking to her dad and his wife, who still was his wife then, still is now, her stepmother.
And yeah, okay. He and I weren't together. If we had been, I still would have felt the same way because I wouldn't want to think of my children walking around the the world parentless because they didn't want to be with me.
It really is all about his emotions.
There doesn't seem to be much space for his daughter's emotions.
Well, that says a lot to why they're estranged. That's heartbreaking.
Like, and I know somebody's going to say, "Well, the mother chose to do that." Yeah, she did. I I acknowledge that. She did. She chose to to walk away from her daughter. So, you know, she does have free will. However, the flip side of that is what is it like living with this person?
What What does it look like? How much pressure? Um, I mean, we all have breaking points, right? Um, what a tragically sad situation.
It that's heartbreaking.
>> So, my wife now doesn't get to see her, doesn't get to see our grandbabies, none of that. And >> I can't imagine the grief she's going through right now.
>> Yeah. It We just talked about it this morning. It [ __ ] sucks.
>> It's so unfair to her, >> you know. And the thing is, and it and it just builds my resentment, too, because it's like >> it's so unfair to her, the daughter did not make that decision.
Did Chris not clock what he said? Am I getting it wrong now? I feel like I'm being gaslit. In the beginning of their arangement, the daughter gave an ultimatum.
The wife did not agree with the ultim ultimatum. The mom's like, "No, I'm standing with my husband." And continued a month ago.
The mother ended the relationship, not the daughter.
Did I not hear that right? I am not erasing this. If I got it wrong, I'll pin a comment. I don't think I got that wrong.
I feel I feel crazy like I almost want to go back and Yep. I'm going to read the transcript. I'll I'll be right back.
I got it right. I got it right. I read the transcript, so I I have it right.
>> And it And it just builds my resentment, too, because it's like, how [ __ ] dare you do that to your mom. I can take this [ __ ] you know? I'm built that way. I can take it. Granted, it took me over a year, a little over a year to get to that point, but now, uh, she's subjecting my wife to it, and I [ __ ] hate her for it. I love her with all of my heart, but I [ __ ] hate her for what she's doing.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, it's not it it absolutely is not fair. when um forgive everybody most people are deserving and worthy of forgiveness whatever I did which you know you've heard me say before I could ballpark what I did you know I mean there's a little list of things that it might be um but even those things it's like >> are we going to share the list >> holy [ __ ] all of this because you're unwilling to forgive, you little [ __ ] You know, >> has she ever told your wife why?
>> Uh, I'm told no.
>> I didn't I don't I and I believe your wife. I think that she >> Yeah. Yeah. Of course. I believe my wife. She wouldn't lie.
>> Yeah. No reason. She has no skin in the game to do that.
>> Yeah. So, um >> I'm just like stunned.
You don't He doesn't deserve her. I I just How How do you refer to your own daughter, a young woman with that word, that way, and not see what that exposes about you?
This is just who I am. blah blah blah.
Like, can you imagine trying to have a reasonable conversation with a person who would come back at you like this? See, I'm back in the no. I don't think I left it. Um, it's kind of like my whole body is in the no and my one like little pinky finger is in the yes and it's it's making its way over.
Oh god. Oh my gosh.
Huh.
>> You know, that's that's what life looks like in our in our house now.
>> Well, I'm I'm hoping that >> Does that answer your question, Lesie?
>> Maybe that's the the push, unfortunately.
>> Wow. I just caught the expression on his face. I'd love to be able to see his eyes. I wonder why he's wearing sunglasses. Um, which gives me the ick, by the way. Uh, did you see there was like a satisfied little smirky in there?
Did you see that? I saw that. Like, does that answer your question? Yeah. Tough guy. Wonderful.
Holy [ __ ] >> Unfortunately, the but yeah, I mean that takes it just to another level.
>> I'm also a conspiracy theorist, too. And I think that there I think that she is systematically um and actively trying to cause our separation. I think she's been trying to do that for 2 years. I think that her and her brother think that their mother is [ __ ] stupid and is not um capable of making her own decisions or knowing what's best for herself. So, I think that my daughter and her [ __ ] brother and her [ __ ] sister-in-law have decided that they know what's best and it's a systematic um ploy to get us to divorce when what the little [ __ ] don't.
>> Why? What is your behavior that your son I didn't know that there was another child. I I know about the one that he lost that your son and daughter feel the need to rescue their mother.
That's what that sounds like. Why?
What are you doing? What is going on? I think that they're trying to get there's a conspir, you know, a conspiracy and all the things. Okay, he may very well be right. Why?
What is their exception with you when we talk about estrangement and you're talking about all your resentment and all your things and whatever? Calling your daughter names, calling your son names. By the way, hello. You don't see anything wrong with that? That's I I don't even have words around that right now. Why do they feel that way? Chris isn't going to ask him because this doesn't uncover what's going on beneath the surface and they just want to be on the surface of gathering the aranged parents together and say that they want the kids while simultaneously and I know I said this earlier diminishing them.
I I'm I am I am speechless >> when what the little [ __ ] don't know is it's only bringing us closer together.
>> Yeah. And that was it. But it was really causing a rift before and you guys are aligned. I can I can tell you I don't know if I've shared this with you. I know we're we're at the the hour mark, but I want to share this really quick.
Um I did have the mom I'm I'm looking for job. My son lives in a different state and I forgive me Joe if I told you this before but um I mom I'm I I found some jobs for you here. Like what are you talking about? I live where I've lived in my entire life except for four years when I lived in St. Louis growing up. My dad was transferred. He worked hard to transfer us back and then I've always lived here. And I was like what are you talking about? And he said well you want to be part of your grandkids lives don't you? Don't you want to see them grow up? Dude, you moved away from us. I didn't leave. I you know and I said and he said you know I understood when grandma and grandpa were alive and this is how he said it but they gone and died. They've gone and died. So now you don't have an excuse to stay there.
Right? Because that was listed in the termination of the relationship was that one of the five reasons was because I chose him over my own son.
>> I married the man. You left. You have your own life. You're married. You have your children. You are having your life.
So, I'm just supposed to sit here in my house and twiddle my thumbs for us.
That's not how my life is. I have a lot of life to live. And so, I thought about that months later that that was actually said. And um kind of the same way you're talking like, "Hey, it's me. You're going to choose him over me." No, there's there's no comparison.
I'm not trying to be gross or anything, but it's not like I'm kissing you and hugging on you and and being intimate with you. You're my my child. this is I have a completely different love for this man, >> you know, and he's my partner in everything he supports me in every single thing I do.
>> She's just gonna go into starting the podcast and how he supports and whatever. I I'd love to know. I I'd love to see the list. I don't know if you guys have seen the video where she's like, "My son sent me a text and blah blah blah and out of protection for him, I'm not going to expose it because it's like awful, whatever." Like so she basically like uh smear campaigned him in a backhanded way like I'm going to protect his reputation while I'm throwing him under the bus at at the same time. It's it's in the aranged parents uh tab. Um I I really do wonder what that's about.
If that occurred that way, what that looks like. I don't have a reason to disbelieve her. I'm wondering what else is in the landscape. And certainly, you know, if if one of I'm not married, I'm actually in the dating world, but if I had a person and like one of my kids was like, I want you to move here and leave your spouse behind, I would be like, what? You know, I I I just don't see a world where somebody would do that. I'm not saying it doesn't happen. It just seems like there's a piece. I feel like there's a missing piece. Do you feel that way?
Have you had experience with that?
Because it's a different statement when I hear you chose a man over me. What What's the history there? What What's going on, you know? Um and I just feel like there's much more to that story than the story being told. I could be wrong.
It just seems a little bit, I don't know, odd. Gosh.
I would love to be able to interview their offspring, >> you know, and it's it's just a matter of time before it comes to a head one way or the other, you know. I mean, something, you know, it's stretched really tight right now. Um, >> yeah.
>> Um, the rubber band is stretched really tight. It's just a matter of time before it comes to a head. I think >> all of the podcasts are there, you guys.
If you want to listen to it on Spotify, Apple, grab them, listen to it, give us comments. If you're going to be nasty and vile, I'll see it. I'll use my imposable thumb. I might comment back in just a >> Oh, if you want to be nasty and vile, don't be a [ __ ] and leave a comment.
Fill out the [ __ ] application and come on our podcast and let's have a qu let's have a conversation.
I love that, >> Joe. I love it enough. Say it again.
>> How did I say that? Yeah, if you want to leave a nasty comment, uh, fill out the [ __ ] application and come on our podcast. We'd love to have a conversation with you, you spineless [ __ ] >> There are, speaking of which, really quick, there are people that do like to mock our videos.
>> I I don't know if they've mocked our this new podcast. I don't really know because we know I don't watch the videos. But if you are and you want to have a true conversation, there's one I can think of. I did actually call her out once, so I'll just say it. Marne, >> um, come on the podcast. We've actually already reached out to you.
>> Yeah.
>> True story. True story. We are active.
>> Well, that makes me want to lean right in. Um, was he calling me a spineless [ __ ] Um, I mean, the fact that you think what I'm doing is mocking your videos. Sure, I've got the [ __ ] up and, you know, the talk to the mug and whatever. There is there is a snarky, sparky, I'm having a go at it element to what I do. I will own that. Uh, that's not what I'm doing, though. And you [ __ ] know it. you know, I'm breaking down the things that you are saying that are off, that aren't okay, that um shed a light on why arange parents who are looking for support and help shouldn't be following arange parent content creators who smear campaign their adult offspring online, for example. Um, not creating an echo chamber. I'm not defending myself. I'm just, you know, for anyone who's new here, um I think I was just called a spineless [ __ ] That's that does that match the we would be honored to have you letter email.
Did I miss something? I mean, it sounds like that's where they were going, right? And she's called me out. Where where has she called me out? I'm good with that. I'll even respond to it. Um did she call me out along with all the bullying and harassment that was going on? That could be. I might have to go and look and see. Um because as as those of you who've seen my most recent video, I am concentrating on doing more in-depth meteor meteor not meteor like the sky meteor uh content which means that I'm going to be posting less. However, I'm going to be going into deeper dives, which means that I will be doing more series kind of stuff rather than one of one of one of because that's just kind of how it's evolving. And because also I want to look at and and talk about the evolution of the way that each of these estrange parent content creators, the way that goes because we already see the patterns of behavior and the similarities in language and things like that. Now I want to see if if it starts in a certain way and evolves the same way. I think that it'll just kind of complete the picture of the things that we're looking at. Um, but oh, that's I have this on freeze. I'm going to put it here. I hope I can find that same image. Like there's this again. I already called her out.
And what does that even mean? So, you're trying to get me to come on the podcast and this is what you think is going to make me feel comfortable. Well, obviously you don't care about other people's feelings. That's a given. um or the comfort of the people who come on your podcast, the other arange parents that interact with you, of course they're going to feel comfortable because when you say things like, "You want to come on here and call your daughter-in-law and effing whatever, I don't remember what he said, and [ __ ] about her." You're you're creating comfort for people to bully and harass other people online.
This is not about healing. It may be about grief. This is not about healing.
This is not what healing looks like. It just isn't.
Holy smokes.
>> True story. True story. We are actively reaching out to individuals. I would love to talk to a strange children. If if if you think that your story needs to be told, that your story has been altered. Two truths are available. Do it.
>> Yeah.
>> Absolutely.
>> All right, Joe.
>> Okay. Well, I went through to the end. I just kind of looked at the transcript to see if we were going to miss anything.
So, things I cut out were about the promotion of the show and uh talking about her relationship uh with like her parents where she's painting herself. I was a daddy's girl and you know the things where they use certain things to be relatable and likable at the same time. But like that's what I took out and you guys can go and watch it if if you choose to. and then they're talking about what their plans are for the day and pickle ball and this that and the other. So that's the kind of stuff I took out. Um so what do you think?
I think I would have to have my head examined to say yes to their offer. I really like now that I've made commentary, it is a hell no for me because there's nothing that can come of it in my mind and if I'm wrong, tell me. Let's talk about it that this would be that the benefit would outweigh the lack of benefit. you know, um I can see a world where this man comes at me. And I also just have a real problem with being affiliated with someone in any way, shape, or form that speaks about his daughter that way. Um uses words like that in reference to anybody. Like I just have a huge [ __ ] problem with it. The way that he speaks it and his son at that point, too. And also, um, so you're talking about the estrangement from your daughter. I'm wondering, where's your relationship with your son who's conspiring with her against you? What's going on there?
Are we estranged from more than one child, adult offspring? I'm I'm I'm the child is buzzing in my ear because of them.
Anyh who, I'mma leave it here because there's nothing more to say.
Tell me what you think and tell me what you would like to see. Thank you so much for being here. I appreciate all of you and I will see you
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