Why Being Strong Almost Broke Me... | Jo Prins S1E1

Added: 2026-05-13

[00:00:00]Joe, it is so good to have you here. I am so excited. From the moment I met you, I just I knew this girl is so special just because you have this energy, you have this light, and you have this absolute presence when you walk into a room. You are in extremely confident and I'm like, yes, how and where does that come from? So, I'm so excited to have this chat and just to dive deeper into your story and how this confident Joe came to be.

[00:00:40]Wow. First the introduction. Wow.

[00:00:44]Thanks, girl. And I feel like I feel exactly the same way about you as well.

[00:00:47]So, I've always obviously seen you online, but we've never actually met in person until like last year.

[00:00:52]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:00:53]>> And then it was just like we just clicked >> immediately. And so when you asked me to come be on the podcast, I was like immediately yes. We just have to figure out how to fit it into the schedule. But I'm I'm good. I'm good. I'm feeling blessed. Busy, but I always say busy is blessings. 100% 100%. Like you said, we knew about each other, but before meeting you, I obviously had an idea of who you are. Just like with anyone, you see them as what they do, you know, for what they do. You see them as, okay, that's Joe. She's a woman in sport.

[00:01:24]Naples specifically or you see her as Joe the presenter or like there's so many different facets. It depends on what season they meet you where that fits in. Let's go back to high school Joe.

[00:01:39]Who was she and what were what were her dreams? Oh, that's so crazy cuz I've been kind of reflecting a lot more and looking back. But I think that is also something that comes once you turn 30.

[00:01:50]Yeah.

[00:01:51]>> Just look back at life. Yeah. But I thought about that this other day where I was thinking about 9year-old me >> and then thinking about me now. And I was just thinking for the first time I feel like 9year-old me would think I'm pretty cool.

[00:02:05]>> Sure.

[00:02:05]>> Cuz so much has happened in my teen years in my 20s and then hitting 30 looking back it felt like I've lived so many lives in in that time. But young me gosh when I look at little me I started playing when I was five. Yeah.

[00:02:23]>> And just fell in love with the game. My sister played and my mom, but before my time. So, it's kind of Nepo was always part of our family. And growing up next to the Nepo court, watching my sisters play, it kind of like inspired me cuz I thought they were the coolest cuz there's a big age gap. I know you can probably relate to it.

[00:02:42]>> So, it's a big age gap with me and my older sister. So, watching them, I always thought they were very cool and I kind of wanted to do what they did but do it better.

[00:02:49]>> Yeah, of course. Yeah, last born you Yeah. You just want to be the best.

[00:02:54]>> So, yeah, I fell in love with the game because I don't know, it was everything that went with it. It's it's the teamwork. It's the >> It's the working towards a common goal that excited me >> cuz I did I did dabble in athletics. I did run a little in primary school.

[00:03:08]>> Yeah.

[00:03:09]>> I did run a little bit, but >> I I I I hated it.

[00:03:13]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:03:14]>> Oh, I hated it.

[00:03:15]>> And it's alone. It's a very lonely sport.

[00:03:16]>> I hated it. It was Yeah. And I think that was the worst part for me of doing it alone. And I had this difficulty of working towards something that is for myself.

[00:03:25]>> Me being a part of a team >> that motivated me more than anything else. So I realized from a young age that I want to be part of a team. I want to do a team sport and I wanted to be net.

[00:03:36]>> Yeah. Of course.

[00:03:37]>> So I kind of specialized I would say too early. If I had my own kids I would not do that. But I was like from grade five I'm like I only want to do net. Okay.

[00:03:47]Hectic.

[00:03:48]>> Yeah. And so then >> you're 11 years old, you already know what you want to do.

[00:03:51]>> Yes. It was that thing of when a teacher asks you, "What do you want to be when you grow up?" I'm like, "I want to be South African nipple player. I want to be a proteilla. I'm going to be the next Brunwin Bach, which in that time when I was little, she was like the proteia captain and a woman of color." So in her I saw myself. And at my like under I think it was grade three at our sports awards. born and book was like the special guest and she handed my little best friend a little award and >> since that day I was like I'm going to be this lady.

[00:04:23]>> Sure.

[00:04:24]>> And so everything from that it was that's the goal I was working towards every single day. every single training session I'm training as if I'm a proteilla and I'm like what nine 10 >> you >> no it's crazy but that's like yeah that was the majority of my life so who was I when I was little ambitious um driven gutsy I would say I was a lot more fearless and and I always played with the boys was playing touch rugby I was playing cricket so you very rarely found me sitting around with the girls playing with the dolls I was you know playing with the cars I was skateboarding riding bike, climbing trees. That was the vibe.

[00:05:03]>> Yes. I relate so much with that because if I think about high school, Julie, I would also say it's it's very much fearless and it's very much I can do anything I set my mind to. And you almost don't need a filter. Even like if I look back on at social media, the things I posted there and how bold I was with what I said. It's before the world hurts you. It's very sad when you see young girls now even like they don't even have that fearless time in their lives because it gets taken away so early because of social media because of what people go through at a very young age and because of that pressure. When did that love and that fearlessness and that gutsiness that you had at a young age, what changed that? When did the thing that brought you the most joy and the most um purpose become the thing that was just pressure?

[00:05:56]>> Gosh, it's it's difficult to like pinpoint it, I would say. I feel like it's like a Yeah. Cuz you start focusing kind of on the wrong things and you lose the love of it and you just focus on the expectations and the goals and you know making certain teams, winning certain tournaments and it just kind of becomes a job.

[00:06:21]>> Yeah.

[00:06:22]>> And I think Yeah. I think there was a stage where it became a job and this is a means to an end versus it just being the thing I love.

[00:06:30]>> Yeah.

[00:06:30]>> Yeah.

[00:06:31]>> Yeah. And just to give you guys a little bit of context, like it wasn't just a a sport you played. It was obviously it was your whole life playing SAP on an 18 on a 20 and then you played the president 12's team. You were center court player of the year. You won numerous awards. It was it was like Joe was the net player and was and now that I know that it was like from age 11 it was your entire identity.

[00:06:56]How did you find who Joe was without Naple then? Like when was the time when did you decide okay this isn't for me?

[00:07:03]What when was that that shift?

[00:07:05]>> Yeah. No, it was it was crazy. It was kind of like everything kind of fell apart at once.

[00:07:12]>> Yeah. And it was kind of one of those forced stoppages that I just had to kind of re-evaluate everything I thought I knew about life and about myself.

[00:07:24]>> So I I think if we can go back like cuz I said it's like a buildup. it.

[00:07:29]>> So, if I can go back to 2019, I would probably say that was one of the most, if not the most successful years for me career-wise, Nepal wise, and then one of the toughest years for me personally off the court. So it was kind of this contrasting >> this paradox like I'm so successful the world sees this as >> and it's like I'm so close to that ultimate dream of like you know getting getting that green blazer that Bronn Bach wore that day when she gave me that award to me being that person and always getting there like I mean going through the schooling system always making the SA team SA squads from a young age and then getting to 2019 I felt like that was kind of like a peak year. It was my final year of university as well. So it's my final year of studies. It's my final year of playing varsity Nepal and at that same time my sister gets very sick. So my sister gets cancer again and came back. So she had breast cancer two years before went into remission and it's my older sister and then it came back that year and she was very ill and it was like in my my TNL series which is our national league.

[00:08:43]>> Okay.

[00:08:43]>> So super.

[00:08:45]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:08:46]>> It was the finals weekend and the doctors is like yeah this is >> it's like the time to say goodbye.

[00:08:54]>> Yeah. I always get emotional when I think about it because it's like definitely >> the toughest.

[00:09:00]>> Yeah.

[00:09:00]>> Yeah. That's like the raw part of my life. And so the thing I love most, netball and then one of the people I love most.

[00:09:09]>> Yeah.

[00:09:10]>> Sure.

[00:09:10]>> And now it felt like I had to choose.

[00:09:13]>> And obviously I'm like I'm not going.

[00:09:14]It's f I know it's finals weekend.

[00:09:17]>> I know. And I mean like I said I'm such a team player. So anything for the team and when you are athlete but any job you leave you leave home stuff at home >> you know >> so when you go to court you just focus on the job at hand there >> and it it also becomes your escape >> of course >> yeah your sport becomes your escape and now it's kind of like this might be the last time I get to see my sister and if I get on that plane I don't know if she's going to be if I come back >> and I never told anybody like how tough it actually was for me. Like I never cried at Depo. A lot of my team members also didn't even know how sick she was.

[00:09:58]>> Um but my parents kind of informed my coaches, but I was very big on like I don't want the rest of the team to know that my sister's basically dying. Yeah.

[00:10:06]>> Then she told the last thing she told me in like the ICU before she went home for the last days, she was like she wants me to go.

[00:10:15]>> She wants to go play and she wants me to go win the thing. And yeah, and I I was like I did I didn't want to go.

[00:10:24]>> No, of course not.

[00:10:25]>> But now she that's one of the last things she's telling me. She's like you should go.

[00:10:29]>> And that time she didn't speak that much. She couldn't really. um she wasn't able to cuz at that point the cancer started taking over her entire body >> and so I'm like oh I don't have a choice kind of I I have to go. It was tough but like always I just you know >> humor is my go-to just made it fun for everyone making jokes not really telling anyone what's actually happening >> but that's why no one almost took it as seriously not took it as seriously but thought that oh it's not that nothing in her life could be that bad because she's >> Yeah. Yeah. Never I think and that's also something from a young age that I was like >> I never wanted to see other people be unhappy.

[00:11:07]>> I always took it upon myself to kind of control the energy in the room and lift spirits up and I I always felt like that was something I was put on my life to do to spread the light, spread the joy, make others laugh.

[00:11:20]>> Yeah.

[00:11:20]>> So yeah, I just carried on like Joe with you know Joe's always having a good time, Joe's always fun, whatever. And I was like this is important time for my team as well. I can't afford to like bring it down with >> e >> but I mean we have to go and win this thing and so yeah so then I go we play um semis and the odds were stacked against us they did not think we were going to win that semi playing against like free state I think was our captain wasn't there that game so they ended like okay you have to stand in as captain as well and I'm like okay >> it's fine whatever this is what I do it's my it's this is my job I was born for this whatever in our warm-up area >> there's just a a piece came over me.

[00:11:59]>> Yeah.

[00:12:00]>> That I haven't felt since I was probably a kid. And I and I felt it the first time before making my first SA squad. It was also just a piece that came over me at the Naples space that I was also just like, "No, it can only be God." Cuz it's this thing you can't explain. You can't describe it. And you just everything else just melts away and you just feel this utter peace within.

[00:12:21]>> Yeah.

[00:12:22]>> And then it also felt like my sister was there with me.

[00:12:27]>> Yeah. I couldn't explain it and I also once again didn't tell anyone around me but I'm like no it's fine I don't have to think about what's happening at home it's fine she's telling me it's fine and I go play that game and end up playing one of if not the best match of my life >> it's yeah it was yeah it was just and I helped carry my team to a win and a good win as well >> and I ended up getting play of the match as well >> oh my goodness >> but as soon as the match was done I just started crying and no one also know why I'm so because why would I cry I don't cry Yeah, >> like I don't cry nipple and I just start crying. Everybody around me also just like starts crying as well and everyone was hugging me. But my my thing was yeah, it wasn't even about the nipple at that stage. And then a random lady comes and pulls me and like you have to go do an interview. Yeah, you play a match whatever. I'm like I don't know what's happening. I just want to go to my phone. Yeah.

[00:13:15]>> And cuz why was I feeling my sister? So in my mind it's like did she leave this earth? Yeah.

[00:13:19]>> Is that why? So, I want to run to my bag and get my phone to check if I don't have a message or call telling me that she's not with us anymore. But instead, I'm getting pulled to do a a interview.

[00:13:32]And I'm just like, I'm not in the right space to do this.

[00:13:35]>> And I don't even know what the what the presenter asked me at that point. And she just I think it was something the line of >> she just she saw how emotional I was and she was just like, I see you getting emotional. Can you maybe tell me what that's about? And that at that point I did not share what's happening at home with anyone. I like I I used to keep my private life quite private.

[00:13:59]>> And so I just start crying and breaking down on national television. How embarrassing it was for me because I was not comfortable crying at that stage. I was I don't cry at that stage. I was not comfortable with vulnerability yet. I have not learned that skill yet. So there I'm crying on national television and being someone that didn't even tell my teammates how sick my sister was. Now I'm telling everybody and now then I just said yeah my sister is sick at home and this one was for her and then the outpour of of messages and calls I got was very overwhelming. Um I think I still have unread messages from that time but anyway that was 2019 but anyway >> um but it was I was so overwhelmed and I was just concerned about what's happening at home. So now I'm supposed to be happy because now you know we going to the finals getting play of the match all these things but I was not fully there.

[00:14:52]So it was such a out of body experience for me >> of course >> next match go to the final didn't win the final unfortunately tried tried very hard to but then I end up winning player of the tournament which is one of yeah which is one of the biggest achievements in my career that >> is massive yeah >> and yet again I was like this is so unexpected and I don't I just want to go home.

[00:15:17]>> Yeah you're like >> yeah I just want to go home.

[00:15:19]>> But that was the thing that you wanted most in your life and you thought moment would would get there and you would feel like I made it and that's not what you felt >> and then it didn't matter.

[00:15:29]>> And suddenly it didn't matter as much.

[00:15:32]>> And that's the only thing I've ever wanted or working towards.

[00:15:36]>> You know, >> and then it didn't matter. I wanted to go home.

[00:15:41]>> And so immediately after getting my awards, getting our medals, I run to my bag and I run to my phone.

[00:15:47]>> Yeah.

[00:15:47]>> And I call my dad and I'm like And I'm just >> Yeah.

[00:15:52]Um, >> and I just I run to my bag and I just say, "Dad, like not even saying words even."

[00:16:03]And he says, "No, it's fine. Sis is fine."

[00:16:07]Interex. Okay. Put my phone away. And then I just go back and there's, you know, there's the confetti. There's the Everybody's celebrating. It's the music paradox, >> right? and I just go back into it and I just acclamatize to it and I just fit in and just kind of celebrate with everyone as well and pretend like that other part is not there. That fear of >> any minute now I can get a phone call telling me my sister is gone.

[00:16:34]>> But in any case, I don't want to bring down anyone else's vibes.

[00:16:38]>> Yeah.

[00:16:38]>> So, we carry on as we do. we carry on and we're strong and we we don't want to burden others with our feelings. You know that thing never want to be a burden. Um cuz yeah feelings emotions they are negative cuz yeah that's kind of how we always frame it. Also that time when you're an athlete >> you're you always try not to be human I think.

[00:17:03]>> Yeah.

[00:17:04]>> Yeah. It's kind of Yeah. You don't feel anything. It's >> you're not allowed to or you don't allow yourself to >> because it's a distraction.

[00:17:12]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:17:12]>> But yeah, you carry on.

[00:17:14]>> And then Yeah. Then I went home and with these two awards, our little runner up division and my little center court player of the tournament.

[00:17:25]And all I care about is that my sister's okay.

[00:17:29]>> Yeah. And then so I went to her house immediately. my dad can fetch me from the airport, go to her. At that point, she was nonverbal. She couldn't speak anymore. So, I just gave her my my awards cuz I didn't want it.

[00:17:46]>> Yeah.

[00:17:47]>> So, I just gave it to her and said, "This was for you and you know, I love you." And that same then I slept over at her place and that same evening at 5:00 a.m. she passed away.

[00:17:58]>> Sure. So then everybody was kind of like, "No, she was just waiting for you to get back."

[00:18:09]>> Yeah. So at that point, she was Yeah.

[00:18:11]She was just kind of waiting.

[00:18:12]>> Yeah.

[00:18:12]>> And once again, being the amazing big sister that she always is, always putting everyone else first and >> always being there for a little sis. So once again, she she waited for me to go do >> what I loved. and I held on a little longer and that's just how she loved, you know, she always just loved in that way. Always putting others first.

[00:18:32]>> But how crazy because I didn't know your story. I didn't know that what happened like beforehand. I was like, "Oh, surely it was just pressure building up with Nate Ball and that's what what happens because that's the usual story of of of girls struggling with pressure." And I'm not taking away anything because the pressure is real in the sport.

[00:18:56]But now knowing this, like it changes everything. Like it changes the whole root of this conversation and I'm actually just I'm in awe of how you handled it. And firstly, I'm just also grateful that you're sharing this. I think grief is a crazy thing and it's something that not a lot of people ever get the chance to actually properly heal from and actually speak about and actually yeah, share with others. And I think there's so many women out there that can sit now and be like, "Wow, okay." Like, how many times did I have to put my personal life aside to focus on the job and to get it done? It's It's incredible how you did that. How did you then move on? What What happened next?

[00:19:37]What was the big shift then? Because I I could understand that it could feel like your whole life now stands still and there's no moving forward from this.

[00:19:46]How did you >> I just went to the next tournament.

[00:19:51]It's just the It's just the next the next thing on on our on our sporting calendar.

[00:19:57]>> And and I think now you mentioning that you didn't know my story cuz I never shared it because I didn't even know that was such a big part of my story cuz I didn't allow myself to grieve.

[00:20:09]>> Yeah.

[00:20:09]>> For a very long time. And only recently have I kind of discovered that that was the turning point. that so much of what happened in the next five years went back to that point. And I didn't know that because I I just did what what all athletes do. We just we just carry on >> and we just focus on our sport. And as long as you do well, as long as you get the win, as long as you make the team, >> like >> it's almost like nothing else matters.

[00:20:42]Like everything can be falling apart, but nothing else matters. It's fine.

[00:20:45]Like it's fine. And no one also asks if you're okay as long as you're winning, as long as the team is doing well, as long as you make the team.

[00:20:53]>> Like, why would I ask you if you're okay? Because it looks great.

[00:20:57]>> Yeah. You're performing.

[00:20:58]>> You're performing.

[00:20:59]>> And and like I said, like my personal life was that was the worst time of of my life for me. But on court, it was one of the best seasons of my entire life >> because I completely then stunted myself kind of emotionally of like and I think I only realized it later, but I think I shut down a part of me and then just kind of zoomed in on on >> the things I thought I could control, >> which is how much I train, >> how much I sleep, what I eat. You know, as a standard typical athlete, you go back to the controllables.

[00:21:33]>> Yeah, of course. and um the things you can't control, you either ignore or you overcompensate.

[00:21:39]And so that's what ended up happening for the next couple of years. And >> here I'm losing my love for net ball but not realizing because when I was achieving all these things, I always felt there was something missing.

[00:21:57]>> Yeah.

[00:21:58]And that was because in my mind, I didn't know it then because I was too young, too naive, too driven, too focused on on the one part of my life that I did not see how I then started resenting the sport cuz I felt like I should have spent more time with my family.

[00:22:17]>> I should have spent more time at home.

[00:22:19]>> Cuz then you realize like who because then it starts with the who am I?

[00:22:23]Because like you miss so many things.

[00:22:24]You miss birthdays, you miss funerals, you miss weddings, you miss >> so many things because >> yeah, like the family knows, the extended family knows, the friends know, >> you're just not available because Yeah.

[00:22:40]You're everything is built around that one thing. And so then how is that one thing not your that how does it not become your identity?

[00:22:48]>> Yeah. No, of course it does. Of course it does. But then also throughout your career when you are a athlete of faith um and you are a Christian athlete then you have that thing that grounds you right >> but then when you lose someone you love you it's it starts shaking your faith >> of course >> but also you don't allow yourself you're not as a Christian you're not allowed to question as an athlete you're not allowed to you know so I also realized I I had so many strict rules for myself that I just set off that no one put on me >> no >> but I just sat for myself I was very strict strict with what I allowed myself to do. Like I I never went out. I didn't have a normal like 20s experience. I wasn't I was a student athlete.

[00:23:29]>> Never went out. I didn't drink. Didn't smoke. Never did drugs. Any of those things which a lot of people do fall into.

[00:23:36]>> But like my obsession and my addiction was my sport. I would say like that's I felt like yeah God put me on this earth to be a nipple player, >> you know? Like that is the only way that's the only way I can do what I'm supposed to be doing. Like if I have to reach people, inspire people or share his message is through my sport.

[00:23:54]>> Yes, of course.

[00:23:55]>> It's me posting my little pictures on Instagram with my Bible verse caption, that's how I'm portraying God >> and that's how I'm honoring him.

[00:24:04]>> And I have to continue playing because that's how I honor God.

[00:24:07]>> I have to continue playing because that's the only way the sacrifices I made are worth it.

[00:24:11]>> And at that point, you you didn't love it at all anymore. I I did, but I it was a thing of I mean I obviously I still do because I'm still in it in a way. So it's it's not that I lost the love. It's more so I think I lost the why.

[00:24:24]>> Okay.

[00:24:25]>> The why I did it. It then suddenly became a thing of >> I have to and not anymore so I want to beame I have to because >> I chose this above everything and everyone else. So I have to keep doing it. I have to because this is a talent that God gave me and if I don't use that then I'm not honoring God and I'm not honoring my calling. Yeah.

[00:24:50]>> So it became a I have to thing versus a I want to >> and I love it and >> I'm not playing for that little girl anymore.

[00:24:59]>> You know I'm not playing for the little girl that fell in love with it anymore.

[00:25:01]It just became >> a thing I I had to do.

[00:25:05]>> And also obviously you have burseries.

[00:25:08]Of course, there's obligation and and it becomes your career. So, it's not the thing of like, I don't love it anymore.

[00:25:13]I'm not going to do it anymore. It's this is what I'm going to do.

[00:25:16]>> Attached to it as well.

[00:25:17]>> And also, obviously, since you were a little girl, that was your dream. So, there was nothing else that interested you like you never went the conventional route in terms of like I want to become a lawyer, I want to become a doctor, I want to be a teacher, I don't like there was never that. It was always net ball.

[00:25:31]>> How does your life then just not stand still? And how do you actually move forward from that? What what did that next five years then look like? Okay, so this was all in 2019, the height of your career, the lowest part of your life as well. What next?

[00:25:47]>> Yeah, I it's kind of like I didn't allow myself to to take time cuz I wasn't alo afforded time. I mean, >> you have the next tournament coming up in a couple of weeks, so then you just work towards that. And I think I didn't even really cry like after my sister's death that much. I I didn't allow myself to cry that much. I I just went into okay, let's see if everybody's okay. She has the two kids that now left behind.

[00:26:16]So just tried to be like, you know, a present aunt for them and and my mom.

[00:26:21]Oh, obviously it it it was a lot for my parents and Yeah. So I just felt like >> you have to be strong. You have to be Yeah. I felt like I had to be strong like I I always do.

[00:26:33]>> I have to be strong in my team. I have to be strong at home. Great family though, honestly. Really blessed. Uh God God really did did me a solid there when he when he gave me my family. But all the pressures that was self self-inflicted and >> my own standards for myself. I just couldn't imagine anything worse than like losing a child. So, and I think that's also the way I was raised by just how my parents are as well. We we always think about my mom always said um >> just think about if that was you.

[00:27:06]>> Just treat others how you would want to be treated. And if not for yourself, imagine you had a daughter yourself or you had a child yourself or it's your sister or it's your niece, how would you want to be treated or how would you want them to be treated? And so I think I've always just thought of others um whenever I do anything or go anywhere like how would I feel if I was in that position. So for me I was like no I need to be strong now cuz this is the worst thing ever for my parents. So I can't I can't act out. I can't I can't like be sad. I can't be depressed. Like let me go do the thing that >> I I'm good at. Yeah. So now so then I just trained a lot, trained hard. I did I did change like looking back I I can see how I changed. Um the spark was more forced. It was more you know >> it didn't come spontaneously. It became it became effort like I I I feel like I started playing a role and I think that's a natural thing when you then start living in survival mode. I think that's what happened since then. So everything came from a place of like survival like what do I need to do to just get through it?

[00:28:23]>> Yeah.

[00:28:24]>> But obviously you are flourishing. You are looking like nothing's wrong. So >> you know you carry on. And I also didn't want people I never want people to pity me.

[00:28:33]>> No wor I'm not a victim. I I wasn't made to have victim mentality. So for me I don't want people to pity me. I don't want people to feel sorry for me. So I'm just going to be stronger. But yeah, my my mental health did decline, but high functioning, you know, like kind of high functioning depression and high functioning survival mode.

[00:28:56]>> No one from the outside would see it.

[00:28:58]>> Yeah.

[00:28:58]>> Yeah. Only if you probably knew me really really well and have known me for years, you you'd pick it up. But also, what what can you do?

[00:29:05]>> Yeah.

[00:29:05]>> Cuz people can only help you as much as you allow them to.

[00:29:09]>> 100%.

[00:29:10]>> Yeah. So, yeah, I just carried on. Um went to USA. had a great USA. We again lost in the final, >> but we Yeah, but we beat a team that was supposed to be the winning team and knocked them out in the semis. Went to the finals and then once again making the dream team, >> you know. So once again flourishing.

[00:29:29]>> Yeah.

[00:29:29]>> Yeah. Overachieving studies. I'm just trying to get through it, you know. I was not trying to ace everything. It was just just about getting through. Then after that then we was in Nepal. Same thing.

[00:29:42]And in between that my relationship with my partner at that time was also going through a rough batch.

[00:29:50]>> So now it's another facet of your life.

[00:29:52]>> Yeah. We don't need to go into what exactly happened but it was rough.

[00:29:57]>> It was rough.

[00:29:59]>> Yeah. No. Yeah. Yeah. No. Uhuh. Wouldn't recommend.

[00:30:05]>> No. No. No. No. I'd rather skip that part. Yeah.

[00:30:08]>> Yeah. So anyway went through that in that part but then going back. So now everything that happens after that I realize everything stems back to my sister again. We broke up and things go cuz goes yeah we needed to break up cuz yeah >> not good.

[00:30:22]>> Um but then I I I went back we got back together again but I feel like it was part of that thing. He's the only dude I ever brought home that my sister like met. So in a way >> you're still connected to >> me holding on to this relationship is in a way of me holding on to >> girl >> you know cuz I couldn't imagine but I couldn't imagine carrying on with a life of getting married getting children achieving my dreams >> and never having my sister be a part of it and all of those milestones all of that work all the big things I'm still working towards, they are yet to happen.

[00:31:07]>> Yeah.

[00:31:07]>> And now I'm going to have to get there with without my sister, without one of my best friends in the entire world.

[00:31:14]So I think a lot of the things I or choices I made and decisions I made and for example staying in places longer than I should have for >> things like that it was yes one uh familiarity thing but also it in a way it made me feel like I'm still yeah connected to my sister like my life is not going on without her. It's not a new life that she doesn't know.

[00:31:38]>> Yeah I'm sure.

[00:31:39]>> Yeah. So I think yeah it it impacted me a lot more than I realized and I only recently kind of reflected on it and and saw it for what it was. So I have more grace now with myself with certain choices as well cuz yeah in the beginning was very hard on myself like how how could you you were so dumb you were so stupid should have known better yeah self-lame. Yeah, but at that time that was all you knew. So, it was what you stuck with. And I think you should have grace with yourself. I'm I'm really proud of you for having grace with yourself because what if I had to put myself in that, she's like, I wouldn't know how I would have treated it or done it differently.

[00:32:19]But it's like now you know what you deserve. Now you know the type of love you need and what you can give. But you never gave that even to yourself. So how how would you think that you deserved it if if that was the way you were handling yourself? You know, >> impacted a lot of my decisions after that. So anyway, finally everything and then I end off my season with getting a multi sports woman of the year. Not even thought it was a possibility. I mean very rarely like a team sport person get stuff like that. That's amazing. Yeah.

[00:32:50]So was it so was kind of like this year of like where everything like career-wise, sporting wise just the best ever >> and then personal life-wise the worst ever.

[00:33:03]>> It was a very transformative year for me >> and I think then after that that that's when things like really shifted and that's when the questions of identity started happening like who are you?

[00:33:16]>> Yeah. What do you really want and why?

[00:33:22]Because I I had the obviously the the list of or the timeline and I'm like but why?

[00:33:29]>> Yeah.

[00:33:29]>> You know, I have this timeline. This should happen by this age. This happen by that age.

[00:33:33]>> Yeah. It's mapped out for you.

[00:33:35]>> Yeah. My life is mapped out. This is like this is where I'm going. This is where I'm marrying. This is you know all the things like this.

[00:33:42]But still you had that missing feeling that feeling like well that void is still there. I'm not I'm not fulfilled >> even though you have everything perfectly planned out.

[00:33:52]>> Yeah. And then the point where you like I was like okay but where did it all like kind of fall apart where you're like no like >> this this is this I can't go carry on anymore like this. So obviously we had co so like co year was weird for everyone.

[00:34:06]>> And then straight after co I get engaged.

[00:34:10]>> Yeah. straight off lockdown, get engaged. I'm like, "Okay, cool. We're following I'm staying in control. I'm taking control. Following the plan, >> you know, something went wrong. My sister is not here. She died, but >> everything else is going to plan.

[00:34:22]Sticking to the plan. Sticking the plan.

[00:34:23]I'm going to make the World Cup team.

[00:34:25]I'm going to marry this person. Going to have this life at this age. I'm going to have my first kid. No, no, no. All these things. My person's going to achieve this. I'm going to achieve that."

[00:34:35]But I'm laughing about it because it's just looking back at it now it kind of seems ridiculous but but in that time I was like this this is what I'm >> Yeah. But also looking from the outside I could 100% see it. I can be like okay that's the perfect picture.

[00:34:49]>> Yeah. It make Yeah. It makes sense.

[00:34:51]>> Yeah.

[00:34:52]>> Yeah. It looked perfect.

[00:34:53]>> It looked perfect.

[00:34:54]>> Exactly. And so I'm like I should just stick to it.

[00:34:57]>> Yeah.

[00:34:58]>> And I was so deeply unhappy >> and alone probably.

[00:35:03]>> Yeah. Cuz Yeah. at that time also then I move. So now I move to Jober.

[00:35:08]>> Yeah.

[00:35:08]>> And my whole like family and support system is here and in Cape Town basically. Um so I leave that behind and I go to a new team that the Nepal was was good. The net environment was good.

[00:35:21]A lot of support there. Got to play with the friends that I used to play against as well. So that that was good for my career. It was a good move. But now for my personal life, I didn't have that support system that I needed. And at that time my partner as well we both had big dreams and and kind of working towards big things. So he was not the support that I needed. I also didn't know what I needed to be fair. So a lot of isolation. So now I'm in this house most a lot of the time in the year on my own um because he's away uh for work obviously training in Europe whatever.

[00:35:57]in this big huge house on my own feeling so alone but also not not telling people what what I'm feeling. Yeah. I I didn't know how >> how can I complain my life is literally perfect.

[00:36:08]>> And then when people was like you're so lucky, you're so lucky. I the amount of times I was told I was so lucky to be where I was. And then just me then feeling extra guilt because >> I'm not grateful for what I have. And >> I'm so unhappy. I'm so deeply unhappy.

[00:36:27]And how could I be if I have everything that people say you're supposed to have?

[00:36:32]>> And also, it's it's following the timeline. Yes, there was issues in my relationship that no relationship should have. But surface level, >> yeah, >> you know, it could be worse.

[00:36:42]>> Yeah.

[00:36:42]>> It's that thing where you tell yourself in a relationship, it could be worse.

[00:36:45]>> Yeah. I'm not walking away. It could be worse.

[00:36:47]>> It could be worse. I mean, he's not doing that to me. He's not doing this.

[00:36:50]It could be worse. You know when and then people also reinforce that by saying you know what this person is going through that diapers go through that like you are lucky so no Mercedes he's like bloody mansion man like and I felt like I couldn't complain I should just suck it up and then yeah then I just put everything into my sport I got so skinny oh my goodness I got so extremely skinny because yeah I I just did everything for net then the >> but then everyone is probably also from the outside saying you look great are you h like you look amazing >> and yeah and a stage also when you're in a relationship with certain people then that's kind of all you also like >> are seen as you know like on someone's arm so you have to look great >> yeah yeah yeah have to look great you can't say the wrong you can't be too much too much and then in that environment as well being with someone from a different culture then those aspects also came into But um that wasn't there when we were dating but after we got engaged and a bit more you know expectations coming in and now I have to dress differently I have to speak differently and yeah so now you can imagine how the identity crisis is now really building >> because now I have to think about what I am wearing. I should think about what I'm saying. I should think about how I and then I just started not wanting to go anywhere. I didn't want to leave that house anymore >> because that's the only place is when you are with yourself is like where you could actually be you.

[00:38:22]>> Yeah. I And so I completely started losing that spark of like and then you like who is Joe?

[00:38:29]>> Yeah.

[00:38:29]>> But I I didn't know why that's the question I was supposed to ask.

[00:38:31]>> No. Like you never ask that question to yourself like it doesn't it was never even in the equation of asking yourself who is Joe and what do I want?

[00:38:39]>> Exactly. And then at that time also I can't really burden my partner because he has he has things to achieve as well.

[00:38:45]Yeah.

[00:38:45]>> And I'm not going to do that cuz I'm an athlete myself.

[00:38:47]>> Yeah. You know the sacrifices.

[00:38:49]>> So I'm like, "Nah, I can't do that. It's not a good time in the calendar."

[00:38:53]>> Yeah. You look you you schedule fights, guys. When you're with an athlete, you schedule fight. You look at the calendar and you have to schedule fights. Yeah.

[00:39:01]Cuz like No, no, no, >> no. It come before a big game. You can't No, no, no, no. Okay.

[00:39:06]>> But then also with my parents then didn't feel like I should burden them.

[00:39:10]They lost their daughter. And then when my middle sister um didn't feel like a burden because she has her own family, she has kids herself.

[00:39:19]>> So I'm just in this big house just like >> Yeah. Just again the paradox. It's like your whole life in that time is just constantly these >> polar opposite things going on at the exact same time. And then I'm just looking for reasons to be unhappy cuz I could it couldn't be that I'm actually supposed to grieve cuz if I have to now look at that wood >> I'm opening up a whole different kind of world >> and that's a distraction from I'm working towards World Cup.

[00:39:52]>> Yeah, >> I'm working towards 2023 World Cup. I can't be >> and I'm trying to plan a wedding as well. And and then there's a lot of things also in my personal life as well in my relationship that's stress but so it's it's yeah so I was just feeling all over the place and trying to find myself through that and it was impossible to do because I didn't really know I was lost.

[00:40:21]And then just one day I um went to one of our TNL camps and for the first time ever I I got a panic attack.

[00:40:32]>> Yeah.

[00:40:33]>> Also no one knew I was even getting a panic attack there. I just ran out of the arena and I went to go throw up outside. Never happened in my life. I've been an athlete my whole life.

[00:40:43]>> Yeah. Massive stages like you you like >> and preseason guys. We know preseason.

[00:40:49]>> Preseason stalen bop.

[00:40:51]It's you want to throw up.

[00:40:52]>> Yes. But you've never So I've never experienced anything like that. The ringing of the ears, the And I've been in pressure situations.

[00:41:00]>> Yeah.

[00:41:00]>> I've And that was a sign for me something's wrong.

[00:41:06]>> Yeah. And then someone was also there at that session as well was like because I think I think I was starting to see that people were starting to see the cracks or I was just paranoid about it because someone was al like girl you you're so skinny like and I'm like no I'm just losing muscle you know.

[00:41:24]>> Yeah.

[00:41:25]>> But that time it's actually I'm not really eating that much. I'm not sleeping. Yeah. Like things are not good. things are not good at home and now it's affecting my nipple for the first time.

[00:41:37]>> Now you're forced to do something about it.

[00:41:40]>> It's affecting my nipple. Nothing in my life has ever affected my nipple.

[00:41:43]>> Not even the things you went through in 2019 affected your nipple.

[00:41:47]>> So that was like the >> warning warning warning.

[00:41:51]>> Yeah.

[00:41:52]>> Something's wrong.

[00:41:53]>> So then I went to go see someone >> and that was so hard for me all to be like >> Yeah. You know, if you have to see someone, there's something like maybe there's something wrong with you.

[00:42:04]>> Yeah, >> girl. So, that was when everything stopped in a crazy way. Obviously, I prayed a lot. I'm a praying woman, but at that stage, my prayer changed. Didn't pray for specific things anymore. I just for the first time I I was in the shower. Oh, very dramatic. In the shower, like water's running over me. My ex and I had a fight again, whatever.

[00:42:28]And I'm like on sitting on the ground in the shower and I'm just like, "God, it's not supposed to be this way.

[00:42:37]Help me." That's all I said.

[00:42:42]And then suddenly everything fell apart.

[00:42:46]Like I in less than an hour, my relationship was over and I left. And within 24 hours, I left Jooke and my dad came to fetch me.

[00:42:59]And looking back now, I can't tell you exactly what happened, but I can only say it was divine intervention.

[00:43:06]>> Sure.

[00:43:06]>> And I can say that was the first time like I got such an immediate answer to my prayer. So no one can ever tell me that God does not exist.

[00:43:16]>> No.

[00:43:17]>> Cuz I've experienced it firsthand.

[00:43:19]>> You have goosebumps.

[00:43:21]>> My life just changed completely. And I thought it was, you know, the worst at that point. I couldn't see it.

[00:43:30]>> Yeah, of course. No, >> the worst thing. Like, no. Like trying to stop like what is happening? Stop like >> Yeah. Like where where is the stop button? Where's the pause button?

[00:43:40]>> Like just take a little bit of a break.

[00:43:42]>> Every just felt like everything is spiraling. Everything is falling apart.

[00:43:45]>> At that time it was like a thing of break everything because it needs to be rebuilt.

[00:43:52]>> Yeah. But at that point it was everything's falling apart. My life is ending and then went home complete shell of myself like shame seeing like my parents at that time I was I felt so bad cuz I was like no man I can't do this to them. I can't do this to anyone like I can't be I can't be falling apart.

[00:44:17]>> I don't because I don't know how how that works.

[00:44:19]>> Yeah.

[00:44:20]>> I'm a high functioning human being.

[00:44:23]How do people just >> Sorry, that doesn't fit into my >> Yeah, it doesn't fit there, guys. It's not part of the timeline. It's not part of the plan.

[00:44:29]>> I did not. This is not on the vision board.

[00:44:33]No, >> no, this is not the what's happening. I felt so out of control. And now >> being a little bit of a control freak back then, like >> there there was nothing worse. There's nothing worse that could happen. My relationship's falling apart.

[00:44:50]I'm struggling with my nipple because I just I there's this anxiety thing that I've never had. I couldn't Yeah. I couldn't eat, couldn't sleep. My parents didn't know what to do. My dad was starting to call around being like should we book her in some way. She's like cuz they like they don't know what's wrong and I don't know what's wrong and I can't communicate cuz that stage I didn't really know how to communicate feelings.

[00:45:12]>> Yeah.

[00:45:13]>> Yeah. Especially if you are so anxious like when I feel anxious I I lose any ability to speak. That's the most frustrating thing as someone who is always in control. Then not having control over yourself. It feels >> like the worst thing ever. And you feel like you are broken.

[00:45:30]>> Yeah. So broken.

[00:45:32]>> So extremely broken.

[00:45:34]>> I'm just like crying out to God like >> Yeah.

[00:45:38]>> And that was now 2020.

[00:45:40]>> Yeah. So that's 2021.

[00:45:41]>> 2021. Okay. So you left Jober, you came back to Cape Town and you still played.

[00:45:47]You're still working towards 2023 World Cup.

[00:45:49]>> In my in my mind, I'm like that that's the only that makes sense.

[00:45:53]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:45:54]>> Right.

[00:45:55]>> Then what? How did you I'm so in this story. I'm so in this story because I'm like what's next? So then I went home and I'm like I'm like okay I gave myself like probably a week. I'm like no I have to go back. I have to go back. We have to stick to the plan. Cuz at that point also my ex and I we broke up. We like but we didn't break off the engagement.

[00:46:15]It's like taking a pause, taking a break. It was very blurry like gray area.

[00:46:23]>> So the thing like, "No, no, no. We're going to get back together. It's fine.

[00:46:26]>> It's fine.

[00:46:28]>> It's fine. We're going to get back together." Yeah. Yeah. No, no, no. I'm still going to play World Cup. No, I'm starting a new job at Colonial College.

[00:46:34]Yeah. Yeah. No, I'm starting a new job doing it. It's fine. It's fine, guys. I just >> Yeah. Just getting Just getting lost.

[00:46:45]Psych.

[00:46:46]>> Psych. No, no, no, guys. I'm sorry about that. I was just dramatic. No, I was I was broken, right? I was broke and then to the point where I was like, "No, there's no will to love. What is left?"

[00:46:58]>> To the point where I I didn't want to live anymore.

[00:47:01]And so, yeah. So, then I shout out to God. I'm like, like, God, help me. Like, what am I supposed to do next? And somehow I I I didn't hear God speak to me often.

[00:47:13]You feel his presence, but it's very little that I felt like I would say I I hear him. And then I just heard for me at that stage, share your story, speak.

[00:47:24]I was like, I don't what story? What >> I don't even know what's happening. What am I supposed to say?

[00:47:30]>> Like that's the last thing I >> What am I supposed to say?

[00:47:33]>> And also, I don't tell people when I'm like I don't speak about stuff like this. I don't speak about >> No, you're asking this vulnerable.

[00:47:40]>> Yes. I don't like I what do you mean like share your story like >> God come on >> bra come on my guy you know >> and so I had a podcast that I started as a project in co I did a course through red and yellow business school and part of that course was creating a project could either be like a video project or a podcast so I started a podcast in that project and it was the more then podcast but it was more so about for me I think as athletes I was very kind of obsessed with the thing about athletes are more than their sport >> for a long time it was something that was always in the back of my head I just didn't know how it's like eventually I will get to that part >> yes >> after I retire um so now I had this project a part of my course at that time where I I created a couple of episodes but yeah so it was like on Spotify and and Apple on the podcast, >> but it was not I wasn't that serious about it.

[00:48:42]>> Yeah.

[00:48:43]>> And I wasn't also thinking about revisiting it cuz I'm focusing on making World Cup. I'm like, yeah, >> that's the number one thing. So then I'm like, okay, I already have this kind of platform. No one really listens to it.

[00:48:52]This is like my friends at that stage.

[00:48:55]And I didn't make it like a big public thing. It was a secret project, but I'm like, "Okay, I have this platform." I call my friend and I'm like, "Yo, yo, Kai, um, just come. We're going to create an episode." And she's like didn't give her much detail. She's like, "Find you're not okay. You're not okay."

[00:49:13]Very supportive friend. Oh gosh. Very blessed with with people in my life that Yeah. that God has placed there. And she didn't know what I was going to share. I didn't give her like a brief.

[00:49:23]>> Yeah.

[00:49:24]>> And we kind of just went and sat in the scalery >> because Yeah. No booth, no nothing, no equipment.

[00:49:31]>> And did it like on Anchor that time, Anchor podcast where you can just self-record and edit and all these things. Okay.

[00:49:37]>> And I and we went into the scholar for sound and Yeah. And I just start sharing the story of how on this specific day. Yeah. I I like it was 2022 then. No, it was 2022.

[00:49:55]I lied to you. It wasn't 2021. It was 2022. On the 2nd of February, so it was 02 2022.

[00:50:01]>> Yeah.

[00:50:02]I wanted to take my life and I share the story with her. She did not Oh, God bless her. Did I just threw this on my friend?

[00:50:13]But then I'm sharing this. I didn't tell anyone else, but now I'm I'm speaking this into like uh something I'm going to put out into the world.

[00:50:21]>> Yeah.

[00:50:22]>> And I just share and I just keep talking and I can't even remember what I said cuz I never went and listened to it again. I listened to it once before the follow-up episode, but I never listened to it again after that. So, I can't even tell you exactly what I said. But yeah, then I kind of shared that that story and I shared a couple more of just speaking on mental health. Got a doctor, a sports psychologist as well on one episode because then I realized the importance of mental health and I realized also I cannot carry on. I did go back to Jober, went back to Victoria, tried to do the Napole thing again, but just realized I no, I couldn't do it. I I at that stage so even quitting.

[00:51:04]>> Yeah.

[00:51:04]>> Tough thing for an >> Yeah. Now it's like when you weren't quitting, but in that stage I felt like Yeah. I was >> It's like you see it as giving up and like >> like you almost you're so close. How could you give up now? Yeah. So most difficult decision of my life is is hanging it up at that stage cuz now I'm in the World Cup squad. We have about two years until the tournament and then Yeah. So giving that that's the dream.

[00:51:32]That's what I've been working towards my entire life. And all of this is now falling apart. Like I'm seeing this road map you set out for yourself and you're feeling like this is now okay. The relationship felt like it falling apart.

[00:51:44]your personal life felt like in shambles and now the net ball and just trying to grip onto something like just can something hold on. Yes.

[00:51:54]>> So now there's nothing very privileged that I could stop everything that I could tell my boss I'm sorry but thank you for the opportunity but >> I'm not going to take you up on the offer. But also just want to say like your obedience for like okay it's not coincidental that you had to do the podcast and it's not coincidental that like you had that message from God saying you need to speak about it no matter how many people listen to it like just hearing it now for the first time just thinking like that was what you had to do you had to share your story at that moment in that time so I just want to honor you for your obedience in sharing that because I don't think most people would have taken that step and been obedient in that. Do you think that that was an important part of your story having to share that on the podcast?

[00:52:48]>> Definitely. Wow. It it cracked me open cuz like I said before that I held things quite close to me close my chest and >> um like I said vulnerability at that stage I was wasn't comfortable with it but being like the most vulnerable ever.

[00:53:03]I had to honor the call. And I think that's something I've always tried to do. And like I said, it's not that you get it always. It's not something that all the time I God is speaking to me like daily.

[00:53:14]>> Yeah.

[00:53:15]>> So I was like, if I if I hear it >> and Yeah. I'm crying out. I'm crying out to the Lord. I'm like, >> Lord, guide me.

[00:53:22]>> Yeah.

[00:53:22]>> And now he's like, do this >> and if I'm going be like, nah.

[00:53:27]>> Then the other option, >> guide me in the way I wanted to go.

[00:53:30]>> But yeah, but like I said, I started changing how I prayed. Yeah.

[00:53:33]>> It wasn't about more like this this is the this is where I want to go. It wasn't more about me praying for my relationship, praying for my sport, praying for my family. It was like here I am.

[00:53:42]>> Yeah.

[00:53:43]>> I'm empty. I'm depleted. There's nothing left.

[00:53:47]>> Sure.

[00:53:48]>> So now what what it's basically a thing of like in a way also daring him like okay now what do you want?

[00:53:54]>> Yeah. Now you >> you I'm here now.

[00:53:56]>> Yeah.

[00:53:56]>> There's not there's nothing.

[00:53:57]>> Yeah. Like it's either me staying on this earth and answering this call or it's me leaving cuz there's nothing at that stage in my mind. There's nothing left.

[00:54:07]>> There's no purpose.

[00:54:09]>> So then I'm like okay either I'm going to do this or I'm just going to be like adios. But then thinking of once again being the person that thinks how will this affect others?

[00:54:18]>> Oh it would destroy my parents.

[00:54:20]>> So it would have been selfish. So I'm like I'm not going to do that for that reason >> cuz I can't imagine what that would do to my parents. Yeah.

[00:54:28]>> So once again, I'm not continuing for myself cuz Yeah. I I didn't know how to choose myself ever. That was Yeah. I didn't know how to do that.

[00:54:36]>> So once again, I'm choosing life for others and for honoring something.

[00:54:42]So yeah. So then I stop getting very privileged to be able to do that because a lot of people they are not afforded that. We always say get help um do the work but not everyone can.

[00:54:52]>> Yeah. If you have children at home, if you have to provide for your family, you can't be like, "Okay, I'm just quickly going to put a pause on my life and then go sort myself out and Okay, so you were in that position to do that."

[00:55:03]>> So, I was probably able to do that and go home. Great parents, stop everything.

[00:55:06]Yeah. And then it was now having to look myself in the mirror.

[00:55:12]>> Didn't like what I saw.

[00:55:14]>> Yeah.

[00:55:14]>> Oh, didn't like her.

[00:55:16]>> No.

[00:55:17]>> At all. Didn't know her. And that's where the rebuild started. And that's when I started answering calls and not just following my timeline anymore. And then I feel like that's when I got on God's timeline.

[00:55:32]>> Yeah.

[00:55:32]>> And it took stripping away everything.

[00:55:35]And it's so interesting because this morning before you came, I had a chat with the videographers about like what would happen if everything is stripped away and you had nothing left. Would you still honor God? would you still stick with him if all you had was his presence? And that was just like I'm like like what would that even look like? And it's so interesting to me and it's actually so crazy now that you are now like a living example of is stripped away like that is enough. Like just holding on to him is enough because that's the thing.

[00:56:10]Did you at that time now finally you looked in the mirror like was that you started being okay like I'm now going to do this for me. I'm going to now rebuild for Joe or was it still I didn't know who Joe was.

[00:56:22]>> Yeah. So I had to take the time to to get to know her. And at that stage I was fortunate to have um people also come into my life that started asking me questions that I've never asked myself and those questions started probing my discovery of self. So I started asking myself different questions and being pushed in different ways >> and being so outside of my comfort zone and not having that like kind of crutch anymore, you know, of having nipple, being this person or being this. So like there was no label identity attached to me at that stage or that I attached to myself. So it was kind of getting to rediscover myself and it Oh, it hurt.

[00:57:15]Oh, it was Oh, it was awful.

[00:57:17]>> Yeah, >> it was awful. And I And for that reason, I think also all of that really helped me with empathy. I have a lot more empathy for people and a lot more understanding, a lot more patience, but it took me to get to that point to to have that. But it also I I had to have it myself, which was foreign. So, it was easier first to have it with other people. So then in that discovery, I also realized like why a lot of people don't do the work.

[00:57:46]>> It's way easier to just ignore it.

[00:57:48]>> So much easier.

[00:57:49]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:57:50]>> So I understand why a lot of people just avoid it. Um cuz it's it's it's tough.

[00:57:54]>> And it took long. It takes longer than you think it would.

[00:57:57]>> Yeah.

[00:57:58]>> Took years. Years. But how incredible is it that you can now like you can now say that I actually did the work. I actually did this. And now looking back like you said how proud Joe could like would be now of you is >> it's it's incredible. Okay. So you need to go to the pits. You need to >> it's it's not necessary if it's not necessarily that something has to happen. You go completely to the pits. I think a great way or like a a great tool to have is just ask starting to ask yourself different questions. It's looking at at where are you comfortable?

[00:58:33]>> Yeah.

[00:58:34]>> And what are the things you're avoiding?

[00:58:37]>> Yeah.

[00:58:38]>> And that's how you start developing a different kind of self-awareness.

[00:58:41]>> Yeah.

[00:58:41]>> Cuz now there are already things you attach to yourself, right? certain ideas um either from our environments or from our own goals and aspirations or what we view as success and all those kinds of things.

[00:58:54]>> But now these other questions that you start asking yourself is not necessarily what do you want?

[00:58:59]>> It's more so how do you feel?

[00:59:02]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:59:03]>> Why do you think you feel that way? And what do you think makes you feel that way? And could you do something different to get a different outcome in that feeling? Sure.

[00:59:16]>> I guess >> because we first always go to the kind of the effect and not always to the cause. We kind of go to the the thing we can physically see or the thing like the outcome. Yeah. Something we always look at. It's easier to look at that.

[00:59:30]>> But then going to the root of it.

[00:59:33]>> Yeah.

[00:59:33]>> It's first you having a feeling and that feeling is attached to a narrative you made yourself. It's always a story you made up yourself about a certain thing.

[00:59:42]It's never the thing. So why do you think you have that narrative attached to it and that's what takes time >> and brutal honesty >> with self?

[00:59:54]>> Sure.

[00:59:55]>> And to be honest with yourself, you you first need to go and and get strip away your labels, push away that ego.

[01:00:04]>> Yeah.

[01:00:04]>> It's not going to help you.

[01:00:07]ego is not going to it's it's there to protect you but it's also a a instinct coping mechanism. It's a survival thing.

[01:00:14]Go look at the things you use as your coping mechanism as your survival.

[01:00:17]Either you can be your humor, you're the funny girl, but again that's a label you gave yourself.

[01:00:21]>> Yeah.

[01:00:21]>> Or no, I'm the one I see black and white. I'm the justice girl. Okay, but are things really black and white?

[01:00:28]>> Or is it just because you decided that's what's white and that's what's black?

[01:00:32]>> Yeah.

[01:00:32]>> You know, when you mix it together, you get gray. Do you know what's in the gray area? And do you know who's in the gray?

[01:00:38]What?

[01:00:38]>> Yeah.

[01:00:38]>> And why do you think that is gray? So, it's constantly evaluating your own feelings, evaluating your own thoughts.

[01:00:47]>> Yeah.

[01:00:48]>> That is such a great tool to have to start navigating in this world >> that is filled with various people, so many different people with their own stories and their own narratives. And if you can start evaluating your own story, you can then start understanding your fellow human.

[01:01:07]>> Yeah. When I feel anxious, a lot of the times, like you said, you look at the symptoms of like, okay, I feel anxious now. Like >> it's because I'm, let's say, I'm fighting with my husband. I'm feeling anxious. And it's because we are fighting. Yeah. And you're just looking at that. You're not asking yourself, okay, well, maybe when I was a child, that's how I saw my parents handle conflict and that's how I learned how to deal with things. You never get to asking those questions because we never sit with ourselves. We never want to do the inner work because it's way easier to just say, >> "It's my partner. He is this person. He caused me to act like this or it's my job. It's a stressful environment.

[01:01:49]That's why I'm anxious."

[01:01:50]No, we always say like offense is taken and not given. That is happening because that's how you you never dealt with a grief or you never dealt with your parents doing this or your friends doing that or like that's how you wired yourself and you never want to go back to that. In my life, I can really I feel like I can definitely just take a lot out of that and start asking that questions. But how how did you learn to ask those questions? Is that what advice would you give someone to start asking that questions? Where do you go? Do you go >> speak to someone?

[01:02:27]>> Yeah. So, I first went to therapy. I got a I got a psychologist, but just cuz I didn't know, like I said, I didn't know how to do life.

[01:02:35]>> Yeah.

[01:02:35]>> I literally went and sat there for the first time and I was like, "Okay, cool.

[01:02:39]What do we talk about now?"

[01:02:41]>> Being very awkward in my in my first session. And she's like, "No, just we're just chatting." I'm like no like I'm going to psycho like in a way in my mind I'm like I'm going to psychoanalyze you trying to psychoanalyze me >> like you know it's like me again trying to like control the situation also making jokes make a laugh like I wanted also to be her favorite patient.

[01:02:59]>> Oh yes of course the best I'm going to do I'm going to be the best at therapy guys.

[01:03:05]>> Oh but that again was my wiring.

[01:03:08]>> Yeah. So throughout those so she started asking me questions because also people therapy they don't tell you what your issues are they guide you to discover it yourself.

[01:03:17]>> It is a chat ultimately and you ultimately come to the conclusions yourself by being asked questions that you don't necessarily get asked. Yeah.

[01:03:25]>> And then also I had this person come into my life which was a male and he gave me a different perspective on life as well and he started ask me questions cuz he didn't really we could relate on a lot of things also in sport same age and >> kind of similar experiences in school and stuff like that.

[01:03:42]>> So he kind of also just started asking me questions that I wasn't used to.

[01:03:47]>> Yeah.

[01:03:47]>> And and like pushing me outside my comfort zone. So I think another way is if you you can go to therapy if that's something you can afford or something you can't do. Also there's a lot of things available on on YouTube or Tik Tok. I know Tik Tok therapy if if it's the only thing you can afford. There are some great pages where people can um just yeah just probe you a little bit and open your mind up a little bit. So firstly open your mind up.

[01:04:11]>> Yeah.

[01:04:11]>> Yeah. Don't be stuck in don't get stuck in a certain narrative for yourself. So then make new connections with people you wouldn't usually >> that people outside of your bubble, people outside your comfort zone and people that won't just tell you what you want to hear.

[01:04:29]>> Yeah.

[01:04:30]>> I think that is also something I I kind of expanded myself um open myself up to new kinds of people. Yeah.

[01:04:37]>> I mean I grew up in the Stalin wash bubble guys. I mean, you know, if you if you grow in a certain kind of bubble, um, whether it's your Paul bubble, your Stalin bubble, your Stalinburg, wherever you are, we we tend to grow up in a little bubble. So, yeah. So, >> for me, I met a lot of people once I left that bubble >> and I met a lot of people outside of my sport as well. That also started opening up and that started like giving me a different perspective on on things. So, one, start asking yourself better questions. Number two, expand yourself and connect with people that are different from you.

[01:05:14]>> Yes.

[01:05:14]>> And have different viewpoints and perspectives and in that way you ex also force yourself to expand.

[01:05:22]>> Okay. So now you did that work. Now you you went through that.

[01:05:26]>> The work is not done. Babe is never done.

[01:05:29]>> What have you learned through all of this? And what would you tell little Joe now seeing her as a 30-year-old now saying like this is this is what I wish I could tell you.

[01:05:40]>> I think the the main thing for me at this point and at this age is looking back now I wouldn't change a thing.

[01:05:51]>> Yeah.

[01:05:52]>> And if I didn't go through everything I went through I wouldn't be where I am now. And I wouldn't feel the way I feel now. I wouldn't love myself and I feel like for the first time ever as I do now. So if I could go back to little Joe, I wouldn't warn her. I wouldn't tell her this is going to happen or or give her a heads up or tell her to handle anything differently.

[01:06:14]>> All I would tell her is it's going to be okay.

[01:06:18]>> Oh wow.

[01:06:20]>> And just keep going.

[01:06:24]Even though you don't have all the answers, even though it may feel like there's no end.

[01:06:30]>> Yeah.

[01:06:31]>> Just keep going.

[01:06:32]>> Yeah.

[01:06:33]>> And it's okay to not be okay.

[01:06:36]>> Yeah.

[01:06:37]>> Because you will be okay again.

[01:06:39]>> Yeah. But what is one thing that little Joe would now if she looks at you now, what is one thing she would be proud of?

[01:06:48]I think in my journey I thought we had to become something and I realized it's a lot more of returning you.

[01:07:00]And I have a lot more in common with little Joe now than I had in the past couple of years.

[01:07:08]And that joy of the Lord that I felt like I used to have as a kid.

[01:07:15]I feel like I found it again.

[01:07:18]>> You are that is so powerful and something I relate to so much.

[01:07:27]you really um you touched me in ways that you >> and I think also why I was so keen because I'm not always keen to say yes to to things and new projects and >> but I think the reason I said yes to this and coming on Gutsy and coming to do this with you specifically is because I see your light >> sure >> and I've see your joy and I remember seeing you when we were still in school and seeing your stuff online and seeing that joy.

[01:07:55]>> Yeah. And then I've also seen how you've sheltered or tried to shelter yourself from the world as well.

[01:08:02]>> Yes.

[01:08:03]>> And then I've also seen it come back.

[01:08:06]>> And so when you asked me to do this and you kind of shared what gutsy is about.

[01:08:10]>> Yeah.

[01:08:11]>> You are the definition of gutsy.

[01:08:13]>> Sure.

[01:08:15]>> And that's why I felt like if there's a platform for me to go on >> Yeah.

[01:08:20]>> then it will to come and just share our lives together.

[01:08:23]>> Mercy. Mercy.

[01:08:24]>> Yes. I I lost that joy, that childlike joy for so many years. And yeah, finding it again. And it's been a really tough journey finding it again. It's not my story now to share. And I'm not going into my story now, but I want to thank you for being vulnerable because I've seen so much of myself in what you shared now and a lot of healing that I still need to do. Um, and I just want to thank you for being vulnerable. And like I always said, we chose the word gutsy not because you are fearless. Um, because you are scared and you're doing it anyway.

[01:09:08]And I was super scared to do this. Not the specific talk because you're very inviting and very easy person to talk to, but just honoring the call like you said, going out and stepping up and sitting behind the mic and sheltering myself for so many years now. It was way easier to protect myself and not speak >> because the world can't hurt you then.

[01:09:33]the world can't take from you and it's taken a lot from me.

[01:09:40]And now standing up and saying, well, listen, the world's not going to take anything from me because I'm going to stand bold in faith and I'm going to, like you said, y return to that joyful Julie and bring joy back into my life and not depend on anyone else to bring it or take it away. I'm going to stay stay true to who I am and I'm going to get back to that joy and thank you for inspiring me and I think you inspired a lot of people today. Yeah, you are changing lives with what you say and I think that's why God told you that day to to speak and share your story and I want to encourage you to never stop sharing your story and when you feel the time is right just just keep on doing that. It is easier now obviously because you've grown so much sharing it now but young girls like I look up to you so much and I know so many other young girls look up to you and girls in sport as well and feel like they have now a role model and just like your role model stood at your on the stage speaking to the school and you said like I want to be like her one day. you are now that person and I want you to live in it and I want you to be like I am a role model and I'm going to stay strong in that and thank you for thank you for that and thank you for the inspirations you are to others. It's just amazing. So yeah, I think that's how we're going to end it all. That is crazy. So that was Joe.

[01:10:59]That was not how I thought this conversation was going to go. I never thought I was going to ball my eyes out on um camera like this and I usually always like ah I hate it when people cry on camera. We couldn't help it. we couldn't help it. So yeah, if you feel like you are alone, if you feel like you need help, um if you feel like you've lost yourself, please do not hesitate to reach out to someone, anyone, whether it's a family member, a therapist, whether it is a teacher, whether it is a colleague, like you are never alone. It's not the end.

[01:11:31]And there's, like you said, it's it's all going to be okay in the end. And that is our episode for