#649: Documenting the Big Data Takeover | Hakeem Anwar

Added: 2026-06-01

[00:00:01]It's all about the macro productions.

[00:00:07]>> What does the goddamn line say, Tony?

[00:00:10]>> Please do not use gendered language.

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[00:00:19]>> It's a big club and you ain't in it.

[00:00:23]>> How dare you, >> Mr. Speaker? The president of the United States. Answer Jack Mary's tax the tricks. Hi, I'm Smart Queen Jackson. Sacramento Steven sex offender guard. I'm Keith Morris.

[00:00:39]This is my good [ __ ] It's sorting through the lies.

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[00:00:49]You can believe that. We cannot track $2.3 trillion in transactions. And uncovering the centuries long plan for world domination.

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[00:01:08]I have sent six of my living to blow up the hardware to German bisexual.

[00:01:20]>> Oh, you English are so superior, aren't you?

[00:01:24]>> Thank you, comrade. And now, macroaggressions. That's what [ __ ] call it. With your host, buddy, I don't know who you are. You're about to get chlamydia. Charlie Robinson.

[00:01:35]>> Hey, Whitey. Where's your hat?

[00:01:37]>> You wouldn't drop the blame on Charlie and say it's all Charlie's fault.

[00:01:41]>> He was a [ __ ] >> I get some goddamn diuretic.

[00:01:56]Welcome to Macroaggressions. I'm your host, Charlie Robinson. If you're watching us on Rumble, YouTube, Vigilante TV, or you're listening wherever podcasts are served, thank you so much. We appreciate it.

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[00:04:49]And once you have that, then you've got the bank by the ball. So if you're interested, go to wipeoutyou mortgage now.com, watch the video, see if it's right for you. All right. Well, we had Hakee on a couple months ago and I got word that he was working on a data center project and when he's on something, you know, a substantial one and it's it's worth mentioning. I think this is such a relevant topic. So, uh, you guys are you guys are going to be simultaneously, uh, impressed with the level of detail that Hakee has brought to the table here and terrified with the ramifications of where we're headed. Well, it's always good to have Hakee Anoir back with us.

[00:05:35]It's good to see you, Hakee. How are you? Where are you, Ben? What what's cooking, Charlie? Yeah, it's good to be back, man. um been been cooking, been on this data center grind for the past six months. I think it's a really important issue. So, been learning everything I could about it, but uh yeah, it's it's a good start to the year. Um I'm feeling like there's a lot of energy behind the freedom movement right now.

[00:05:59]>> Yeah, we need it desperately. And and this is a really good rallying point because I I think if there's something that I that maybe kind of crosses party lines and socioeconomic lines is that the idea of these data centers like it's a very small segment of the population who can really justify it and has the either the the the job reasoning or the future need you know to say yeah I need this it's going to it's going to impact my life tremendous mendously and I must have it. I think most people are looking at this going, "All right, I lived without it." And if AI wants to come into my life, that's fine, I guess. But the it it used to be that it was just I could shut off my computer or I could close the window. But now it is it is demanding unnecessary and I think unreasonable things from the general public just to exist. And I'm talking about water and energy and resources and all kinds of stuff that you know I I don't think was part of the original plan when they were selling us on what artificial intelligence was. I don't think that we got to read the fine print that said, "Yeah, we're going to tap into your water supply and drink all of it to cool these things and we're going to put them all over the place next to schools and your kids are going to be glowing and all that." you know, nobody signed on for this. And now it's starting to get to a point where we're seeing uh like the equivalent of the school board meetings that we saw a couple years ago. These are the AI data center local hearings that are, you know, where the vote in in front of city council and all these people are saying we don't want this and then the city council says yes, yes, yes, yes, yes.

[00:07:49]And it gets passed and everybody boos and chases them out of like I'm watching this and I'm going this feels very uh coordinated and dystopian. And then I get a I get in contact with your office and they say to me, "You've got to see what Hakee's working on with the data centers." And you know, you were on here just a couple of months ago and we needed to have you back like immediately to talk about this. So can you can we start wherever you want, but you've been working on this for the last 6 months or so and what you have developed is mindblowing. the mapping, the software.

[00:08:33]So, what have you found in the last six months about data centers?

[00:08:38]>> Yeah, I I really liked what you said at the beginning. It's like there is this crosses party lines. It crosses all lines because there's uh there is almost no one who's saying, "Oh, my AI isn't fast enough. Like, it's not responding to me within a second." Right? There's like almost no one who's saying that.

[00:08:59]But we have in the past year and then in 2025, we've had the biggest tech companies spend $2.4 trillion or pledge to spend that amount of money. That's a that's a ridiculous [ __ ] sum. That's that's our highway budget for the past 44 years. That's uh that's enough to build a high-speed rail network like across the entire country, right?

[00:09:24]Multiple multiple times. And and so just to like to to see how heavy-handed this push is is is going to get a lot of people to start waking up. And and like you said, like it's uh right now there's a big overlap between the conservative uh conservativeleaning people and and the freedom leaning people. Um which is I think growing every day as they've been let down by the current administration over and over. But now there's also an opportunity to get more of these uh liberal individuals involved who are typically the people resisting um ecological disasters like these data centers. So I've been I've been getting into this for the past 6 months after uh people starting asking our company are we going to build an AI service and I was like okay well there is a lot of potential here but what what is the risk? I I really wanted to know uh there weren't many answers when I first started. So, it's like what is the real power and water usage? Who's behind this push? And how much are prices going to go up? And is there a way to stop them?

[00:10:28]So, um I started working on this report.

[00:10:31]Uh you can download it at aid datacentermap.org.

[00:10:35]There's also a map which lets you see things in your area. Here, I'll just bring it up really quick. Right. This is a map of the United States and the 4,500 data centers we're tracking on it. And um we are pledging to keep this data open and available for everyone.

[00:10:51]Otherwise, you would normally have to pay for this data, but I think that the way we're going to make it through is crowdsourcing and helping connect each other to to local efforts. So, to this day, we found about 2,000 data centers that are operating and uh 623 hyperscale data centers. We could refer to these as AI data centers, right? There's a difference between conventional and AI data centers. So these hypers scales are the are the really scary ones because they're consuming millions of gallons of water every single day. So um despite secrecy now there's some more information coming out about them.

[00:11:28]I remember the nuclear energy industry and and how nuclear energy works and how they they you know have the heating rods and they use water run water over it turns it into steam turns turbines and and then that water is you know is processed out the out the back. Is that something similar? What is the water being used for? Is it is it a cooling mechanism? Can you is there something else we can use? water seems like a pretty extreme thing. Like certainly there's got to be a way to do this. Obviously, we we know that and and this is not the first time we've had issues like this, right? Bitcoin miners in the last 15 years or so have have been on the forefront of trying to figure out how do we take this energy and clean it up or use it or move to Norway so that we can keep the doors open and cool it off a little bit or whatever it is. They're this has been in the forefront of people's minds for a long time. So why why is it when we've got big tech every player in the tech industry behind AI and the one Achilles heel to it is power usage and I guess the use of water as a subset of that.

[00:12:46]Have they not found an answer to that?

[00:12:48]Do they not want to find an answer to is sucking all the water out of the aquifers actually the the whole point of this operation? And when I put my little tinfoil sombrero on, I mean, what do you see with this?

[00:13:02]It it definitely seems like something an evil villain would do. Um, just get going just over the top. um building these data centers in places that are primarily already in drought like the southwestern United States. We could look at that a little bit. Um but just just to explain like where this water is coming from. Um, so you can think about a modern AI data center rack which uh is loaded with it's loaded with dozens of high performance GPUs which cost anywhere from 30,000 to $50,000 a pop a single one. And each single one of these GPUs does about a trillion trillion calculations per second. Um, and it has billions of transistors built inside of it. So because it's performing this many calculations, it's producing extremely high levels of heat that is concentrated. Uh it is actually so hot, it's within one order of magnitude to the surface of the sun.

[00:14:07]So it is so hot and they have to use a lot of water, run it through cooling tubes. it can, you know, evaporates, vaporizes, and they will let it out into the air, um, in uh, cooling towers, right? So, it just evaporates into the atmosphere, uh, never to be seen again.

[00:14:24]Well, actually, it rains, but it's, uh, when you're pulling the danger is when you're pulling millions of gallons a day, your aquifer is not going to have enough time to recharge. It recharges through rain. It recharges by rain in the right places where are which are feeding underground. So, um, these aquifers are are take hundreds of years to restore after, um, groundwater decline. So, um, we're not going to be able to recharge them fast enough. So, the question is is like like you said, is it the plan to remove all of our waters and all the environmental disasters that come from it? Are lakes and rivers and streams? So, we'll see the water level go down there and that'll have disastrous consequences because it's at these points where water is filtered. It's uh it's habitat for lots of different animals. It um it also prevents erosion. That's where new soil is built. And um so all of these things can happen if we are unconscious about how we use AI.

[00:15:30]you I mean I saw firsthand it living in Las Vegas the water level of Lake me dropping so low so low that they started finding bodies no exaggeration they started finding the the the bodies that the mafia had thrown overboard um but and that's coming and and and that was look that's southern Nevada northern Nevada I just read today that Lake Tahoe 50,000 people in Lake Tahoe are going to be without energy from NV Energy making an announcement there that They're they're diverting power to data centers.

[00:16:03]Are they being forced to make a decision between servicing residential people and servicing these data centers?

[00:16:12]In many cases, uh yes. Um so one thing to understand is the boards that are responsible for for governing water use have very very little power. And um there are many states in the United States where um if you can pump the water onto your land, you have control of it. For instance, Texas is one of those states and it's also why there are so many data centers being built in Texas. Of course, there's the power grid, too. Um but what we're finding is this u this injustice that happens when um the local state government gives these data centers preference and favoritism. Um, not only do they give them wholesale prices for water, I mean, millions of gallons a day, um, but they also allow them they there's been, uh, emergency regulations that have been passed in, uh, the Northeast, um, for the largest interstate electric grid, PJM, and also Urkott, Texas's electric grid, where they were getting so many requests to be connected to the grid. A lot of these requests were [ __ ] requests. They were actually um data center developers were applying in multiple different states just to see what the best site would be, what the best deal would be. But there's been so many requests that they have passed emergency regulation trying to speed up the time to um approve these interconnection requests and to do these interconnection studies where they model the impacts and try to ensure the reliability of the grid. But see just just as an example uh this grid at least in uh PJM in the northeast there have been so many new requests for power that there's not enough capacity. Um I think it's something like hold on I'm going to pause here for a second.

[00:18:10]Yeah. Okay. So PGM interconnection which manages 13 it's a grid a regional transmission grid it's it's uh reg it's federally regulated actually um it came up 6.6 gaww short of the it's a margin it needed to have for reliability. So um so basically this target will ensure that the grid stays at a generation capacity like there's more power going into it than is demanded right they're unable to meet that 6.6 6 gigawatts is about 6 million homes, right? Um, so they're finding that uh they can't supply enough power to these data centers, but they're still giving them passes. And I I don't understand why.

[00:18:58]It's the same power structure that broke down in the winter a couple years ago with some heavy icing things like shut Texas down for a while. Is that is that correct? Or was that was that the the aircot one?

[00:19:13]>> Yeah. No, that that was Urkot and that was also a scary situation, right? I think we were something like 3 minutes away from total failure of the grid. So, um you know, these are already systems that are that are really stressed out.

[00:19:29]But like you know in the short term what we're seeing is because these um wholesale prices are going up. Uh electricity bills are also going up in these areas like the the region I'm talking about PJM which services Virginia um and other states in the northeast uh prices have gone up like 300%. Right. So um this is something that is coming to any area that is building data centers. I saw a crazy statistic about water use that the da d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d d da centers are going are using more water than bottled drinking water than all the bottled drinking water that people are drinking. Is that true?

[00:20:10]Yeah, I saw that statistic too. Um I I think it's plausible. Like I' I'd believe it. Um, I haven't looked into that claim specifically, but just seeing how uh large some of these data centers are. Um, if you go to the site aidentmap.org and you click on some of the black triangles, you'll actually be able to see um our estimates and our estimates are based off of this academic paper from Lawrence Berkeley National Labs.

[00:20:41]And basically they gave an average average estimate of about 4.45 L for every kilowatt a data center uses. So these uh these data centers are using um they're using gigawatts, right? Like thousands and thousands times more than than a kilowatt than a particular home.

[00:21:04]And you also have to understand that this is not just the power or this is not just the water used to cool the data center but as this data center needs a tremendous amount of power there's other infrastructure like natural gas plants or um or nuclear that is being built and those also need water as part of creating that power. So there's this double aspect that no one is talking about. So yeah, absolutely. Whether it's the data center cooling themselves or the power behind it, uh this amount of water is being used.

[00:21:36]>> That's crazy. Yeah. So even if you solve the energy side of the equation, you still have to deal with the water because there's no getting around that.

[00:21:43]Even if you switch to nuclear, you're still going to need to pull a lot of water. The what is what is so important?

[00:21:51]What is the rush? I think everybody's asking the same question. Why the rush?

[00:21:56]you know, like why now? Why why does this have to happen tomorrow? Why can't we talk about it? Why why can't you have the the the meeting, you know, the the city council meeting where you actually say, "No, no, no. Like we're not rushing to vote on anything until we get more information about this because it seems like everybody in the power generating industry and anybody in tech wants to ram this through as quickly as possible without anybody getting the the ability to think about it or do studies. Are they even doing health related studies to show if it's safe to be anywhere near these DA data centers? Have they done that yet?

[00:22:41]Yeah. Yeah. I I think part of the reason why they worked so fast is because they knew there was a massive legislative hole and regulation for for heavy industry and they had to move fast otherwise, you know, otherwise people would catch on. And you can see this at the uh the micro level and how they operate in in different towns. Um, they'll use uh when they're starting to work with the county for zoning, they won't be like, "Hey, it's Microsoft.

[00:23:09]Microsoft's coming in to build something." No, they're going to use a stupid code name like uh Blue Goldfish or something, right? To to scoot sky under the to skirt under the radar and um to get approval from uh the county commissioner's office um before the residents have even had a chance to speak up about it. And this is really really important. Reszoning is is one of the ways that you can stop a data center. For instance, for agricultural land, there's a lot more um there's more permits and regulations that they have to uh to get in order to build uh large industrial scale equipment. So, if they need to uh reszone, that's one way that it's actually required um for the residents of that town to speak up and and share their mind. It has to be on the record actually after it is reszoned the the data center developer can pretty much do whatever they want. Now there's a few other cases for um uh where states are just approving things willy-nilly.

[00:24:15]The uh air permits are another one of them. And these they just have so much um they have so much experience like these lawyers that that figure these things out. I mean, honestly, like they're going to burn in hell. There's there's no question about that. The things they do to get these air permits, for instance, the gas turbines um for X's data center in Memphis, Tennessee, instead of requesting an air quality permit for all of the gas turbines, which were there was like, you know, they had already brought close to 25 on site before getting permits. they were already running. So they did it after the fact, but they would get permits for e a single individual turbine by themselves so that the whole fleet would not be accounted for. So there's a lot of sneaky [ __ ] like this that they use to get permits for these different things and how they're getting preferential treatment from like priority access by the city and like to water and power and things like that as well. It feels like it's the city council and the energy companies uh versus the people. What what offers can we assume have been made? Because it feels like the people are all unanimous unanimously against this. The people in positions of deciding on it, voting, city council, whatever, they all magically are in favor of it for some reason. Uh we have any idea how that is how that could possibly be?

[00:25:51]It seems uh incompatible with reality.

[00:25:54]>> The only explanation I have is just pure corruption and conflict of of interest.

[00:25:59]That's the only thing that really makes sense to me. Unless uh unless our city city councils and um county commissioners boards are are completely [ __ ] throughout the country, which you know that's also a possibility.

[00:26:12]Yeah.

[00:26:12]>> Uh, one one one thing that really makes me angry about this whole situation is the the incentives that these data centers get. Um, there are these um these projects. When a local town is considering a data center moving to their town, they're um they're told like this is going to bring a lot of permanent jobs and uh billions of dollars in economic investment into the town, right? So, this is how they kind of sell it off. But that the reality of the situation is there's almost no permanent jobs. There's never any requirements to hire locally really in any of the contracts that I've seen so far. So it's like um who is it benefiting really? Um there's uh so to explain that conflict of interest, there's uh Rick the uh previous Texas governor Rick Perry is um building one of the largest data centers in the entire country. Um it's called uh Fermy Project Matador. Sorry. I call it project [ __ ] And um it's named after President Trump. So it's it's really really fitting. But um essentially there's a lot of people in politics that have stakes in these data centers. So it's no question right they want their pro they want their investment to be successful and that's why 32 states have subsidy programs for data centers and only 20 of them share to the public how much money is being lost to these subsidy programs. So it's like they will get uh they will get a big chunk off sometimes a 100% off their property taxes. Um, when you are buying these graphics card, you're buying hundreds and thousands of these graphic cards that are 30 to 50k a pop. Uh, these these cost savings are ridiculous.

[00:28:01]Texas lost over $1 billion to data center subsidies in uh 2025, which is the most expensive out of any place in the country. And other states are not too far behind.

[00:28:15]So, what have you you've your map is pretty amazing, I must say. Everybody needs to go check it out just to fiddle around with it if nothing else. You you've got a lot of different criteria that you can overlay. Is there anything that you saw that really jumped out at you? um locations, uh some sort of common denominator, uh where where these data centers are or where you can predict they're going to be in the future based on what you're seeing.

[00:28:49]>> Yeah, absolutely. So, if you go to aidacentermap.org and you click on this explore the map button, it'll take you to the map.

[00:28:57]There's a little popup that comes. Uh you don't have to put your information in. you can just click past that to get into the map. Um, and so when you're looking from a 10,000 ft view, you can see these problem areas. So there are uh these black triangles are these hyperscalers, right? These are using uh 100 times more power and water than your normal data center. Um, so they typically use over 100 megawws. Um a and so you can you can drill down on these and you can actually get estimates for how much water and power they use. So it does all the calculations for you. It's all cited so you can call me if if you think there's a better formula, let me know. Um but this is what I ascertained and I've talked with academics who who research this stuff and um they're they're using similar formulas. So um it's it's I think it's fairly accurate on that front. The other thing I would say is you can change these layers. So if you look at the current water stress, you'll find that a lot of clusters of data centers are on water stressed areas. Now this is um the aqueduct uh world resources institute model for water stress. These are not real world measurements from the ground. This is a hydraological model that uh just bases it bases uh bases itself on water demand and rainfall in the area that kind of thing. But still you can look at places like Dallas which is is suffering. Um, you can look at places like Phoenix, um, Phoenix over here, which has a lot of data centers, El Paso, and also the panhandle of Texas, which has a big cluster up here, too, when you can actually see how many homes are being displaced. And I want to point out that I don't have all the data here. I've only been able to get maybe 10% of the data centers on the map to get their power capacity to do these estimates. So it's like the actual estimates are much much higher. This we need to get the power data from them. Now um so in addition to that you can go look at the major aquifers and what you'll find without fail is that these data centers are going to be in waterrich regions like zooming into New York right we're not too far from the aquifers. They need access to municipal water to be able to uh cool themselves. So that's kind of how that works. you'll definitely see some relationships through Washington and this is just a part of you know modern grid infrastructure that uh they they will there will be some relationship to aquifers also with power lines this is probably the biggest giveaway so this is the high voltage power line grid across the country and you'll find that data centers will be in a within a mile of most high voltage power lines because it costs a million dollars per mile to extend and some of these power lines. So, okay, if you are worried about your local location, just see are there any uninhabited power lines in the area and uh and what's the water situation like? That should give you a clue.

[00:32:12]>> Okay. So, that is about as detailed as you can get, but you come out of the activism world as well. So, how do we stop this?

[00:32:22]Yeah. So, uh, in the report, if you sign up for the report, which will come out next week, probably by the time this is published, um, there's a lot of different case studies that I have. And there are a few points at a data centers life cycle that you can stop it. And one takeaway from this thing would be to get connected with your local water conservation organization, wherever they are. Even if you don't agree with them, you should go go check them out and see which data centers are in your area because it is all at the local level.

[00:32:55]It's all about being aware of these permits when they're first submitted and exercising your your rights as an American um to yeah to to the Freedom Information Act to get to see these permits and to stop them um before they fully get uh approved and developed. Um, other other than that and and I'm actually building a a second phase to this map that uh and you you you helped me coin the name Charlie, so thank you for that. Where you can adopt a data center um in your town. So you could claim responsibility for it. You could um if you know there's a good organization in your area that's doing work, you can actually say, "All right, hey, we're going to claim responsibility for this area." And that way people who use the map can get connected and we can build uh we can build more community that way. The other thing that we need to realize is that our phones and laptops are all using AI already. So there's a section in my report where I talk about how you can go through your phone whether it's an iPhone or an Android or a Windows computer and you can disable the AI. You can there's not there's not really disable it, but you can neuter it. You can do your best to turn it off. Now, um you can follow those in the you can follow those instructions in the report when it's released and that'll be a temporary relief. Just know at the next update, those features will most likely turn themselves back on. That's that's the crux of the issue here is AI is embedded. It's the new normal in all of our devices.

[00:34:34]What about the So maybe we can't appeal to these guys on the water level or on the energy level. What if we made it a health issue and attack them on the EMF front of things? I mean, these have got to be generating some sort of dangerous uh waves as as a result of what they're doing or, you know, the high voltage power lines are now being pushed to capacity and there's there's issues there. Is there a is there a medical angle that we can use to stop this as well? Because clearly it's not going to matter. We water and power, they seem to to have some sort of answer for that.

[00:35:19]But what if the case could be made that these AI data centers were actually killing people >> or harming them in some way?

[00:35:30]>> Yeah, it's it's it's a good point and I haven't looked at EMF. While I'm sure it's going to be off the charts, but it might dissipate like a mile or more from the data center. I'm sure there is that going on. I'm going to look into it. Um, what I've seen right now is is the noise pollution, which is really, really bad.

[00:35:49]>> And and one case I looked at in the report is a lawsuit against uh Marathon Computing, who's running a crypto mining operation, um, which is pretty small.

[00:35:59]It's only using 300 megawatts, right?

[00:36:01]So, not even close to these big data centers. And so, people nearby described it like living next to a loud vacuum cleaner running right next to them 24/7 through the day. and night vibrating their entire house. And so, um, these poor people, they they couldn't sleep.

[00:36:19]Um, they started to get stressed out.

[00:36:21]They high blood pressure and just feeling like crap all the time, right?

[00:36:25]And losing their hearing. Um, one person's dog began to tear its own fur out and, uh, horses began to freak out in the area and and wildlife began to move from the area. uh this is in addition to their electricity bills doubling and tripling in price. So yeah, like there's all these health things that are happening and um I don't know if I have a good answer because it's like yeah, you could I mean maybe we could all start class action lawsuits.

[00:36:56]Um, but those things are going to take time. And I would just encourage people if this is happening in your area, maybe it'd be better just to um some people would disagree with me on this, but it's like yeah, like you know, your health is is the number one thing.

[00:37:12]Definitely don't suffer. Um, other things is like um we're also seeing like seeing them limit our ability to push back on help things. I don't think this has necessarily happened with with data centers yet, but you know, that's kind of that's kind of the trend I've seen with Trump's administration in giving them passes. So, like, yeah, it's very crucial like if we do want to start this push back on health to do it now.

[00:37:41]>> Yeah, for sure. Um, we've lived under homeowners associations and battled with them for decades now. Any are they useful in this in any way? Can we weaponize their insanity and direct the homeowners associations against these these places and get anywhere with that? I wonder.

[00:38:04]I wish. Um these things are usually built outside of the jurisdiction of um a homeowners association, you know, many times built on unrestricted land. Um industrial land doesn't really have many limit limitations at the county level.

[00:38:21]So, um, what I've heard from, uh, local activists in Texas is that basically the county has no power, uh, no power at all to, um, try and minimize the impact of these data centers. They can't they can't tell them what to do. So, um, that's I know something in Texas that's been trouble. Um, I think that I I'm going to keep my ear peeled and maybe someone who's listening knows better than I do at uh some legal recourse that we have at this point. I I do think it's class action lawsuits against these data centers um the health risks, the power the power demands um that won't be taken care of. And if we do start to get changed, just know that it's also it's also going to take time. There are uh there there are things happening in the country like these data center moratorum bills. Uh 13 states have proposed moratorium bills, but none have actually passed. In Maine, uh they were about to approve an 18-month pause on data centers, but that was vetoed by the government. Janet Mills, thank you Janet Mills. Thank you for supporting your constituents.

[00:39:34]>> Um so it's not really happening at the state level. I would not count on it there. No single moratorium bill has passed to the state level. There is a US data center moratorum tracker um which is looking at 69 different local moratoriums across counties, cities and towns and 50 of these are active. So I think I mean that's probably the best thing that someone could do right now is is get very involved with their city or county and and try to get a moratorium passed. Whenever people want to do something questionable or semi-ilgal, they tend to go to Indian land to do it.

[00:40:12]Has there been a push for these data centers to partner with the Indians and do unspeakable things to nature on Indian land free from any sort of jurisdiction?

[00:40:25]>> You know, I I haven't heard of an individual case like that, but I would not be surprised if if there's one out there. And uh yeah, that would be an absolutely trying to give an idea by the way, but >> you know, >> don't go to the Indians. Indians, watch out.

[00:40:40]>> Yeah. Can can a can a case be made from the environmental standpoint in terms of how it impacts animals? I've worked in real estate for 30 years. I've watched an endangered tortoise [ __ ] up an entire real estate developer's life. Okay. So, can't we find an endangered tortoise species that is that is native to the areas where they want to build data centers and and come at it from that angle. I mean, it's I'm I'm trying to think of every aspect of this like there's got to be a way to get them, you know, like the catching Al Capone on tax evasion type of [ __ ] right? like we gota we got to do something here where we you know there's an obscure goose that's going to be >> impacted by this right please tell me there is >> yeah um you know I I wish I know of one that's animal related I mean that's a that's a really good idea um normally in terms of permitting unless it's protected wetland uh protected federally or protected by um I'm blanking on the there's uh there's a military agency that that watches over, you know, specific protected wetlands if it's not a designated area like that.

[00:41:59]They don't need any permits.

[00:42:01]>> Um but, you know, you bring up a good point that if there are endangered species in that area and you know, you're you're observing them getting hurt, that would be a really good thing to bring up. Um also another thing on that health angle is um there is this aspect of air pollution which um which is important to talk about. Uh XAI's data center in Memphis um they brought 35 gas plants and they only had permits for 15 of them and they were running all 35. And uh so the Southern Environmental Law Center uh actually paid for a flyby to do a thermal scan of this area and they found that 35 gas plants were in operation and finally after 6 months they uh were they're now suing XAI for operating these unpermitted gas turbines. Um so it's a violation of the Clean Air Act and they're also pushing back against the permit. This is another way uh you'll you'll this is very relevant because a lot of these data centers will use these portable air turbines or gas turbines to get their power off the ground while they're building more permanent power infrastructure.

[00:43:18]>> Can I ask a question about the science behind the water usage? Because is this water I know that when you use water for fracking you're you're injecting water in there and it comes out mixed in with a gas and the water is unusable at this point. the water that is used to cool let's say a nuclear power plant or or an AI data center or something is that water afterwards unusable or or as you said or or does it all just get evaporated away and turn into just you know just literally turn into nothing.

[00:43:58]>> Yeah. Um, so some places uh like to claim some data centers like to claim that they cla can clean the contaminants out. Um, however, to this date, I have not found a single data center that has a water recycling program in practice. So, it's a lot of lip service. At least for me, I might be missing something. And please, if you do find one, please share it with me.

[00:44:26]anyone who's watching this. Um, but I have not found a single water recycling program to date. Um, these are things that, um, they're working on. They say that they're working on, but um, yeah, you know, the water does need to be cleaned. It is moving through these cooling tubes. It's picking up heavy metals. So, there needs to be an actual study uh, before they incorporate it back into uh, into the water supply. I know in San Marcos this was part of the that I mean there was actually a plan in place to put the cooling water back into the San Marcos River and uh they're a very dedicated water conservation community there. They pushed back. They said, "No, you've never you've haven't even done tests on this. We haven't even done tests on the water." So, I know that that's going on in in San Marcos.

[00:45:18]Um and what else was I going to say? I was going to say that. Uh yeah, I mean ultimately when the water is evaporated, yes, it goes back into the atmosphere, but like uh water water conservation and like aquifer, groundwater management is all about making sure that water gets to the areas that need it because there's only some places on the earth when when it rains, the water rack will actually make its way down to the aquifer. the other types of water just remains either remains on the surface or it evaporates, it doesn't actually get down to the aquifer. So, there are special zones um that this water needs to get to, right?

[00:45:57]If it's all being evaporated up, it's it's definitely not getting back down to the aquifer.

[00:46:03]Is this international in scope? Is this happening around the world? Is it limited to the western world? Is it uh coming to a country near you or what what is the roll out of this?

[00:46:20]>> For right now, it's uh just the United States. We're we're the leaders. We're the leaders in data center buildouts.

[00:46:28]Right.

[00:46:29]>> Take that third world >> suckers. Right. Um yeah, it's really funny. I mean it's we're building these data centers in the US with with Chinese-made equipment and um um the US is first um Canada I'm starting to hear is that it's it's bleeding over to Canada. Um Kevin Olirri is attempting to build one of the world's largest data centers uh in Alberta and so we're starting to see it in Canada but um these are some of the only places I know there there's a few different spots in Europe and in China but it's it's really not even close to what is happening in the United States which is why I decided to focus on the US for the first iteration. Hell, you could focus just on Utah and and and do do what is the Stratos data center in Utah to twice the total power of of the entire state for a for a data center. I mean, this is this is the sort of thing that e that wakes up even normies where they just go, okay, this can't be a normal thing.

[00:47:38]We we certainly survived just fine without all these data centers and now we have to have one immediately and nobody's allowed to question it. And when we we ask the normal question like hey how come you know you already put the the the NSA facility in Bluffdale, Utah, right? We we understand that. I'm sure that sucks a ton of energy. Now you want to build a data center that uses twice as much energy as the entire state combined. And we're supposed to what?

[00:48:06]just be okay with that. A and we're we're not going to do the math and go, let's see, if you're using that much energy and then you you're going to use now it's going to be like triple. What's that going to do to the price? Like you don't have to you don't have to be budget conscious to to have questions about what that does to the price of electricity. I mean, what is going on in Utah?

[00:48:28]>> Yeah, really good question. Maybe we can ask the government for the with some questions. And so one thing I'm taking away from uh the questions is that this is related to the MIA military installation development authority. So it's like if it's related to the military, it's it's definitely being fasttracked, right? But hey, look, we're getting private investment in long-term local and state revenue support thousands of construction jobs that end after a year and permanent careers.

[00:49:00]Yeah, maybe like five maybe five or 10 permanent careers, right? So, um, this already got approved by the Box Elder County Commission. Um, so yeah, this is kind of like a reszoning or or master plan vote that happened and there was um here we go. This is Sierra Club. So, double UTO's power demand like you were saying and this is really common. It's actually common for some of these hypers scale data centers to use more power than an entire state. It's it's it's >> it's it's very common. So, um 9 gawatts of power, double the state of Utah.

[00:49:42]>> Oh, yeah. And this is this is Kevin Olirri. Yeah. He's working on on multiple of them. So, great.

[00:49:48]>> They fasttracked the project without adequate environmental review. Uh they've done their own air quality impacts and net zero water technologies.

[00:49:56]They have not released any data to the public.

[00:50:00]>> So um >> yeah 37 yeah I mean so this is this is definitely taking place across the country. Um looks like you know people are are fighting back and it's like um within within our freedom movement maybe this is something that we need to pay attention to right now. you know, this this is something that could could unite us.

[00:50:25]>> It's always hard to know where to prioritize your effort, but this is seems like a very logical place. I mean, like I said, it it is it's rare that you find an opportunity where the right and the left and the anarchist community can all come together, but I think we are all in agreement that this this is something that cannot stand. There's another tech um angle that is is also sort of uniting people as well and that's the flock cameras and and of course Jason Bassler has been from the free thought project has been doing outstanding work on on flock cameras and you of course would take back our tech and above phone where do we stand on flock cameras? Uh it seems like they are starting to get pushed back from a segment of society which is nice to see. Maybe not fast enough, not enough but you know we're getting there. What what's your opinion on them so far?

[00:51:20]>> Yeah. Well, you know that that is part of this surveillance control grid that's being built and and maybe you know that's one of the the input sources for these AI data centers. Maybe the real reason that these are being built is for to be able to surveil everything in real time so they can add more of these cameras and get faster insights about people and how they feel and and what they're doing. Um and yeah, and Jason's been doing amazing work on on flock cameras and the data centers. I definitely recommend subscribing to his Twitters. He's got amazing memes. Um I hope we'll be having a conversation soon about it. Um, but uh there are there are people in small towns across the country that are that are kicking out data centers. You could go to dflock.mme to get information on that. I also know uh from some homies in Sedona that got the flock cameras kicked out of the local city limits. But it's kind of funny because as soon as you exit the city limits, you go out to the county, there's also flock cameras, right? So like you know I I I'm like been reflecting on this because being you know having my my journey as an anarchist being inspired by guys like Derek Bros and and Conchin it made me kind of give up on local government action and just why why why do it? Why does it even matter? But I I'm starting to turn around on that. I'm starting to take a 180 on that and and we have to speak up. We have to voice these things before they get too big.

[00:52:58]>> Yeah. Yeah. Flock cam. Well, for for those who are unable to extrapolate this out, what can be done with the information gathered from a flock camera that is reading your license plate? I'm assuming. I don't know. I don't know how it's set up. Is it just reading your license plate? Is it reading your face?

[00:53:18]Is it Is it >> supposed to be pretty?

[00:53:23]>> What is it? low quality camera. You know, they're not super high quality cameras. Um, they're reading the license plate.

[00:53:30]They're reading the the make and model of your car. They're reading the bumper stickers. And so, they it's a they they want a direct match on where your car is. And so, I don't know what you drive, Charlie, but you know, connect that with the Department of Motor Vehicles records. Where is Charlie right now?

[00:53:47]Well, his car was spotted on this part of the city, right? So, it's it's basically like Minority Report is it's the first steps to building something like Minority Report and um it's uh it's very sad. A lot of police departments have have bought the software. A lot of cities have installed the cameras. Um a fun game you can play is if you go to dlock.me, you can look at all the cameras in your cities and you can try and find ways around them. Um it's not easy to do.

[00:54:18]It's not easy to do. I I've thought about building a version of a uh mapping app that actually uses that camera data and then like will navigate you like navigates you around the cameras. I think that'd be pretty cool. But, you know, >> at at the end of the day, we've just got to start showing up and and letting letting our local officials know we're not going to stand for this and we are going to hold them accountable >> because we we read their work. We understand what Agenda 2030 is. They talk about 15minute cities. I mean, you can you can extrapolate out from where the technology is now, where they where it's headed, where they want it to go with the idea of mapping your movements and keeping you it cameras would would make sense as an integral part of that control grid. You don't have to be a conspiracy theorist to understand that.

[00:55:13]That that seems like a pretty easy one.

[00:55:15]So if we again that it feels like we're starting to get some components that that are eligible for uniting people, you know, things things that I don't know that it's necessarily a rightle leaning ideology to be in favor of wanting to be surveiled. I would think that that would be against them, right? It would be it would be I don't want you following my license plate. Okay, good. Now you now go to the people on the left. Hey, do you want the do you want Donald Trump's following your license plate? No, of course not. Well, okay, you could be against this as well, right? So, can't we get everybody against flock cameras in the same way? Maybe they're not humming like data centers and in and electrifying your kids, but the idea that the government feels the need to know where your car is at all problems. And on top of that, I think the new legislation that just passed, I think it goes into effect maybe this year with cars or perhaps it's next year where they're really >> the full-blown tracking of that. I mean, I feel like there's an opportunity here.

[00:56:28]You know, I know it's hard to find common ground, but an opportunity with some of this tech overreach to be the thing that unites people in standing up against it. Be it data centers, flock cameras, or or even AI in general.

[00:56:42]you I think I think you were right on that. Um I think you're right on that and I think that hopefully there's this aspect of all of the people involved in rolling this out um people in local government uh the data center developers, the big tech executives. It's like we also need to get them to understand, hey, you're on this planet with us. Why are you burning it down? You're like literally we're all in the same boat here. We're all in the same boat here. And if you think you're going to escape to your private bunker, I got news for you. Um yeah, I got news for you. Your private bunker is using water. We're all going to drink. Like you're it's it's not going to it's not going to work out. Okay. So, um yeah, this does have the this does have the potential to unite us all. And um for me personally, I think I think it's going to be more about I I do a lot of my activism online. I I live on I live on the internet and I and I think that needs to change. Like I think I'm excited to get to my next place and get involved in the local community and raise awareness about this and show up in person and to let like let these I think I forgot who I heard this from, but occupy the land, right? We have to heard it from Ernest Hancock, I'm sure.

[00:58:03]Yeah, that's his thing, isn't it? Occupy the land, >> right?

[00:58:07]>> You've got to you've got to occupy the space. You've got to occupy these city council meetings. They can't have them behind closed doors. So, yeah. Um this is this is about discovering what that is like. Uh how to do that again.

[00:58:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's a reasonable thing for people to be fired up and pissed off about. You know, this is going to impact all of us. When we're out of water, then what? you know, I hope you enjoyed your Netflix subscription getting to you at record speed. I mean, it it it feels like such a such an unnecessary step. You know, it'd be one thing if the ask was to build the highspeed rail system, right? And there was eminent domain and there was inconveniences and a lot of money and a lot of energy, but you could you could see something tangible. You could get on that train in the future and and go someplace and you could take advantage of it, but people don't really feel like they're going to be benefiting from an increased data center or the state recognizing their license plate or any of these things that are the sales pitch to the public feels very uh uninspiring and it and kind of nonsensical. Uh so maybe maybe maybe this this maybe we're able to uh shake people awake because of this. I hope so.

[00:59:27]Uh let's wrap up with this because since we've got you here you and and you have built you've quite literally built a solution for getting around a lot of this stuff. Let's talk about above phone and and what what you guys are working on, what you have moving forward. uh what you know if people want to remove themselves from the online surveillance system they got to get honest about where they are right and so so what do you guys have at Above phone um for the tail end of 2026 >> yeah I mean it all starts with the devices it's the same message I've been sharing for the last 5 years um which is if you're using a big tech phone it's not your phone it is constantly changing things are being installed without your knowledge. Things can be removed without your knowledge. And in 2027, a lot of things are going to change with people who use Android phones in that it's going to be a lot harder to install apps that aren't approved by Google. So, literally, as an app developer myself, if I don't hand my ID to Google and give them the master keys so they can change the app however way they want, if I don't do that, then I won't be able to be installed as easily on a normal Android phone. It's already like that on iPhone. You cannot get an unapproved app, right? So, it's just them um they're treating us like children.

[01:00:51]They're putting they're exerting all this control over us. And if you really want to fight back, it's not just about disabling the AI features whenever you can. It's about using a device that is devoid of the tracking, the surveillance, and the control. So, that is above phone. This is uh one of the above phones here. And um what's really great about it is it's not a huge shift.

[01:01:13]You can still continue to use the cell service you're already using. You can activate it on the above phone. Some people like to get a brand new cell service for the phone and then it still works with all of the apps that you would normally use. And there are actually ways to control and um um and protect yourself from these big tech apps. So even if you wanted Facebook Messenger, you can isolate it in its own container. You can remove its permissions. So it lets you use the things you normally use as well. Um so you can kind of have the the best of both worlds with the Buff Phone. You have extreme security at the lower levels. Uh, this is this is a phone that does everything in its power to protect you from overthe-air attacks, from people stealing the phone out of your hands or maybe it being confiscated. If you want to be sure and you want to be protected um from things like that, use above phone. So, you could go to abovephone.com.

[01:02:16]I think we also have a code with activist post $50 off any phone. Use code activist post that supports us. It also supports the amazing work Charlie and his team are doing. So um check that out. We um we are working on many different things. I think the next thing is uh having local AI on our phones and laptops by default. So even if you feel the need to use AI, you must use it.

[01:02:47]Well, hey, here's a holistic uh here's a holistic better version for you that simply uses your phone or your laptop.

[01:02:55]It doesn't use power from a data center.

[01:02:57]It uses no water. You aren't cooling your phone down with water. Just let it get hot, right? So, these are alternatives you can start using. You can get literate with and start sharing it with the people around you. And eventually, I think one day, we'll be completely responsible for our own food and our own software services. So this is just a baby step on that journey.

[01:03:19]>> Solutions, that's it. That's what we I mean we got to we have to offer them.

[01:03:23]They're there if you want them, you know, if you want. And take back our tech, too. Let me mention that just real quick. Yeah. So, uh, take back our tech is our educational effort. You could go to takeback.org.

[01:03:36]I've been publishing content for the past 5 years educating on internet privacy and how to switch over to Linux and how to protect your device. And uh yeah, I want to thank Charlie and Activist Post for forwarding some of our articles that have been going out. I also have a show on Substack, tbborot.substack.com.

[01:03:55]It's supposed to be a weekly show where I talk about the latest tech news.

[01:03:59]There's a lot going on and um so you should see a show very very soon. I'll also be releasing a video series detailing the AI data center report and also the map teaching you how to use it.

[01:04:12]So stay tuned for that.

[01:04:14]Excellent. That's a key manoir.

[01:04:16]Everybody go check out takebackrtech.org.

[01:04:19]Go to above phone. Get yourself an above phone or get somebody get everybody in your family in above phone and get out of the get out of the tech overreach. Uh you can connect with me.

[01:04:29]macroaggressions.io is the website.

[01:04:31]Activistpost.com is where we're republishing news. Thanks everybody.

[01:04:35]Talk to you again soon.

[01:04:40]Heat. Heat.

[01:04:50]Heat. Heat.

[01:05:00]Yeah.

[01:05:08]Heat.