#105 Entrelinhas Vermelhas | Eleição: o papel da mídia e das pesquisas

Añadido: 2026-05-28

[00:00:05][Music] Between Red Lines, an analysis of the week's highlights from Portal Vermelho.

[00:00:15]Hello, friend. Hello, friend of the Red Portal.

[00:00:20]Welcome to another edition of our program, Between Red Lines, which airs every Thursday at 5 PM. available through the Portal Vermelho YouTube channel, TV Vermelho, and as a podcast on Spotify.

[00:00:37]I am Inácio Carvalho, I am a 62-year-old white man, I have a gray beard, I don't wear hair, I wear glasses with clear frames. Right now I'm wearing a white shirt, and over it, a dark blue sweater. In the background I have a white wall with a door, actually, in a maroon color.

[00:01:04]Well, as we expected, this year's election is taking place in an extremely polarized environment, and the trend is that it will remain so until the end. And in this environment, research, journalistic coverage, and social media repercussions gain even more importance and impact. This is where what's called a narrative dispute takes place.

[00:01:32]Recent polls indicate changes in the evaluation of President Lula's performance and his government, as well as in the dispute between him and Flávio Bolsonaro.

[00:01:45]At the heart of the game are the fraudulent schemes of Daniel Vorcaro and his dangerous connections.

[00:01:52]Is the game starting to take shape? What else might happen in the future? How is the coverage in the mainstream media? And what is the role of so-called independent media or the alternative press?

[00:02:08]And what about social media in the age of artificial intelligence?

[00:02:13]What role will social media and this entire digital environment play?

[00:02:18]Let's talk about these and other topics with journalist Altamiro Borges, or Miro, who already has a long career in communication and political activism. He was part of the team at the newspaper Tribuna Operária, and served as the national communications secretary for the PCDB, during which time the website, known as the "Red" portal, gained prominence and several awards. He led the founding of the Barão de Tararé Center for Alternative Media Studies, of which he is the current coordinator, or rather, he is the coordinator; it 's actually a group.

[00:02:53]Alright, let's start our conversation shortly, but I invite you to like and share our video on TV Vermelho on YouTube and our podcast on Spotify.

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[00:03:18]And for those who are watching our videos, just scan the QR code on the screen. And to stay up-to-date with the most important news and analysis, visit the Vermelho portal, vermelho.org.br.

[00:03:31]BR.

[00:03:34]And joining us here today is Larissa Gold, a journalist who is also a member of our red portal and the PCDB's social media team, as well as a member of the Barão de Itararé Center for Alternative Media Studies. Hi Lari, good morning. Welcome!

[00:03:54]Good morning, Inácio, thank you very much. Good morning, good afternoon, or good evening to whoever is watching. And I'm Larissa, I'm a 5'4", slim, 35-year-old white woman with shoulder-length brown hair. I'll say that I loved it, I don't wear hair, Inácio.

[00:04:11]I thought it was great. [laughs] Very good.

[00:04:16]Yes, I stopped using it for a while.

[00:04:19][laughs] Alright, great, Lari. We already have Miro here, our Miroiro Borges.

[00:04:25]Welcome, Miro.

[00:04:27]Dr. Inácio Lari, how are you all doing? Are you all relaxed?

[00:04:31]Okay, Miro.

[00:04:32]I already gave Inácio the tip to drink cachaça to cure this flu quickly, you know, man?

[00:04:39]So it is. By the way, speaking of the flu, Miro, we need to cure this flu soon, right? Because I have a party to go to in a few days, right? What exactly is this party like? What's this party all about, Miro?

[00:04:53]So, Inace, you've been involved with the Barantaré Media Studies Center since its inception. Lar is the coordinator of the Barantaré Study Center, right?

[00:05:04]Barão is the fight for the democratization of communication, the fight for the strengthening of alternative and peripheral media, the fight for the training of new communicators, and so on. But the Baron's home is also known as a party animal, he likes a party, right? He likes to party.

[00:05:24]So, there are two festivals every year. The birthday party is in May, right? Barão was founded on May 14, 2010, and has an anniversary party and an end-of-year party. So now we're going to celebrate 16 years of life. And that. It's a moment for gathering, for lots of laughter, lots of giggles, talking nonsense, no speeches allowed. Anyone who tries to give a speech will be removed from the room; it 's not an environment for speeches. Well, so it's time to laugh, talk nonsense, meet up with friends, and eat some delicious Minas Gerais food at the MST's country store, you know. I heard a forró song, a forró group, Raul Amorim, who is from the MST's communications department and is also part of Barão's coordination team along with Lari. And Raul Amorinha, besides everything else, is a singer and musician, right? So now there's a forró group.

[00:06:20]So there you have it, the party will be enlivened by the MST's forró group. It's going to be funny, it's going to be fun. I want to see the group dancing drunk.

[00:06:29][laughs] It's going to be Saturday, right, Mir? Noon at the field warehouse, right?

[00:06:33]That. Saturday starts at noon, I have lunch there at the farm store and it goes until about 7 o'clock, which is the permitted time in that region, which is my neighborhood, by the way.

[00:06:45]There is?

[00:06:46]It's my neighborhood. I live in the region.

[00:06:48]Ready. So, you can give us a hint about when we'll finish at 7 PM at the warehouse in the countryside, where we should continue the prayer?

[00:06:58]That's exactly it. You'll be talking about cultural events this weekend, folks!

[00:07:02]That's your group, you won't lack for after-parties.

[00:07:05]Okay, okay, it's closed. Yes, it's closed. L boa, Marmiro. Hey, everyone's invited.

[00:07:14]Everyone's invited. Yes, everyone is invited. And this year it's not Inês Naci who's going to make that lunch, is it?

[00:07:22]No, Inês. Inês is traveling, she's with her family from Minas Gerais this weekend.

[00:07:27]Inês Lourdes, right? Everything's fine. Nacif had even agreed to present his choro group, but his choro group was also traveling, so he ended up praying, right? Yes, I even spoke with Ralídia to see if we could combine them, right? Joining forces with the enemies of the struggle, isn't that right? What's the name of her group? That. It was Nacif who suggested it. Nacif met with the group, loved it, and made suggestions. We even tried to make a deal, but it didn't work out, it didn't fit into our schedules. That was a shame. But we'll put that together at the end of the year.

[00:08:01]Inês assembles food. Inês Nacife, the boss, along with the choro and samba music.

[00:08:09]Beauty. Very good, Meiru. So let's start with a good topic.

[00:08:16]Well, the Atlas Intel survey came out the other day, and it already shows some changes, so to speak, compared to what the previous surveys had been indicating. In other words, there was an increase in the gap between Lula and Flávio Bolsonaro in the first and second rounds, right? So I wanted to ask you, do you think this change has more to do with Lula's performance or with the, let's say, fraternal revelations of Flávio Bolsonaro with Daniel Vorcar, or both? So, what do you think this has to do with anything?

[00:08:56]So, Inácio, look that up. It's a snapshot taken at that moment. That's a cliché, but it's true. A snapshot of the moment points to trends, right?

[00:09:04]In my opinion, we should never get too excited or too depressed about research; it shouldn't be one extreme or the other, right? It has been going occasionally. A good poll comes out, and people are already saying, "No, we won in the first round, we're not going to form an alliance with anyone." I've seen people say things like, "No, we're not going to form an alliance with anyone. We're going it alone, we're pretty good." So, it creates an impressive sense of euphoria. Then when a bad poll comes out, that's it, we're screwed, I'm going to seek exile, deep depression. So, neither one extreme nor the other. Research is lacking in the moment; a lot of water will flow under the bridge later. The election for the common people hasn't started yet. The election will begin after the World Cup, it will start with election advertising on radio and TV from August onwards.

[00:09:51]But then it's a snapshot of the moment. The question before this revelation, this love affair between Flávio Rachadinha and the mobster Vorcaro, before this revelation by the two of them, thanks to the excellent reporting work by The Intercept, the question had already shown a change in the scenario, right? Change of scenery. You see how dynamic things are. Three weeks ago, at the end of April, many people considered Lula to be dead. A lot of people from the big newspapers in the press had that whole thing with Messias, right?

[00:10:34]That. That. A lot of people in the major newspapers, I saw several columnists and media slanderers declaring Lula dead, right?

[00:10:42]Saying, not defeated, a historic defeat, and it was truly historic for the Messiah to go to the Supreme Court, right, after 132 years, the first time that a presidential nominee to the Supreme Federal Court was rejected, right, then the defeat, less than 24 hours later, the defeat of President Lula's vetoes on the dosimetry project, and the government was finished, it died, right? Many people thought he was dead, but he died, right? And that. Neither depression nor euphoria. The government takes its actions, and the world keeps turning.

[00:11:18]The Earth, despite being flat, flips over. She's going to flip over, spin around, right? So what happened? That unexpected scene occurred, a scene of cuckolding, with Bolsonaro supporters feeling betrayed, and Trump declaring his love for Lula. I love Lula. Lula is very intelligent, Lula is brilliant, Lula is dynamic. This stirred things up a bit because it portrayed Lula as a great statesman, a major player, to use a trendy international term. So that already messed things up a bit for Coreta, and that's what the Quest research picked up on. Hey, we have it here, right?

[00:11:56]The population saw in Lula this great statesman of stability.

[00:12:01]Bolsonarism is chaos. Lula of stability. This world is crazy, isn't it?

[00:12:07]Then came other deliveries from the government. The government has accurately grasped the problem of Brazilian debt, which is a very serious issue, related to these exorbitant interest rates, to gambling, to all of that. The government understood and took a very important initiative, which was this Desenrola 2.0, right, the new Desenrola Brasil that affects many Brazilians. The quest also captured that. The quest showed that the unfolding events, oops, actually had an effect. One thing that a lot of people were saying had no effect at all, but that's what started to catch on, and that was the income tax exemption. Many people said, "No, the exemption won't apply to anyone." It caught on, it started to manifest. And that. It's a little extra money that goes into your pocket every month, instead of being deducted, isn't that right? Every month. So, the quest picked up and had that Cío Nogueira thing.

[00:12:59]So, these four things, before the affirmation, before the carnal relationship between Flávio Rachadinha and Vorcaro, these four factors already existed, which the quest captured, Lula had already improved, right? And Flávio Bolsonaro had already stopped after the case, after the Intercept bombshell, after the Intercept bombshell, this love affair between Flávio Rachadinho and Vorcaro, right? From that Dark Horse movie, right? The underdog, he really did get beaten by an underdog, didn't he? It's a nag.

[00:13:41]Militia pangaré. Pangaré, right? After that old nag, after the revelation of that old nag, right, from Dark Horse, things really got worse. Folha de São Paulo, the company Grupo Folha, pulled a dirty trick by shortening a survey that was planned to take three days of fieldwork to two, just to avoid being affected by Dark Horse. A horse running over everyone. Folha (a Brazilian newspaper) pulled a dirty trick with that Datafolha (another Brazilian newspaper) report, right?

[00:14:13]That data sheet was mine, kind of a cover-up operation. Oh, the scandal came out, but it didn't catch on. Wait, you didn't do any research or interviews about the scandal. A shameful deal. That's why they had to scrap the research and now they're going to do another one, right? That was a dirty trick, wasn't it? Shinfim, from Folha de São Paulo, part of the Folha group, right? With Folha date. And now this one from Atlas Intel has come out. One came out yesterday from Vox Brasil, right? Yeah, that one from Atlas Intel really shows the impact. The impact is significant. The impact isn't that great for Lula, in the sense that Lula doesn't grow in popularity.

[00:14:55]Lula remained stable, growing only 0.4% according to Atlas Intel. The impact is significant for Flávio Rachadinha. The animal dropped 5.8, 5.6, I don't know how much, poof, right? It fell apart badly. He fell hard, losing the advantage he had in the second round. He lost that advantage, and the gap widened in the first round, right? The research also shows that all those who ran on the outside, including the opportunists who tried, climbed onto the platform of the coup plotters, climbed onto the platform of the Bolsonaro supporters, and now they are trying to distance themselves from Flávio because Flávio has become somewhat toxic, right? That guy, right, from Minas Gerais, right, the one who eats eggs, right, the one who eats banana peels, that Zema from Minas Gerais. Miro, it was Zema who decided to speak ill of Vorcaro, right? Of all people, it's him, yes, him, who received it from Vorcaro's father, who's in prison, Henrique Vorcaro. Henrique Vorcaro was the head of the Jagunços department, wasn't he?

[00:16:00]He was the guy in charge of Vorcáo's gang, the leader of the group. The class leader.

[00:16:06]Exactly. From the group, and there was another one, and one of the boys. Boys who mess around on social media and the group who keep an eye on opponents, right?

[00:16:17]According to reports, Vorcá's father donated R$1 million to Zema's campaign. And Zema will talk about the Vacários. That guy is so, so awful, so cynical, isn't he?

[00:16:29]So, neither him, nor that agro-dite from Goiás, Caiado who's about to retire, right? Neither he nor the agro-religious Caiado rode this wave of Flávio's disapproval. So, Flávio's popularity plummets, and these guys don't show up. One thing that caught my attention, two things caught my attention in this transmental research, because you take the general and then focus on the particular, right? One thing that caught my attention is that Michele, who was presented as a strong name in the research, doesn't appear to be as strong.

[00:17:05]Micheque, isn't that right? Because that's the thing, it affects the whole family, even Michaël's tastes, even Jair Bolsonaro doesn't have much faith in his partner, right? Well, even because of sexism, right? And even so, it 's stuck, it's stuck, there's not much you can do about it. So the research shows that she's not all that great. She's not all that great, although there are a lot of people trying to revive Michele's career, right? And another piece of data that caught my attention, which also relates to Michele, was that the research indicated that Flávio Rachadinha's drop was by about five points, right? Overall, among evangelicals, the drop was 15 points.

[00:17:54]This is an issue that deserves attention, in my view, among evangelicals. There was also a change in the South and Southeast, which is important, but what about this change among evangelicals? evangelical.

[00:18:07]Maria is one of the people, one of those who have suffered, right? People who feel the effects of the government's social programs, feel that the Lula government is concerned with social issues, especially women, especially women feel it, right?

[00:18:23]Well, part of it was wrapped up in conservative moral discourse, you know, the morality of false moralists. It's the pedophiles who make moralistic speeches, it's the cuckolds and cuckolded men making moralistic speeches, right? Yeah, but it works, right? It's a lot of pastors giving speeches on television, right? Well, the research showed the following: "And hey, they sold Flávio Bolsonaro as a man of ethics and morals. Yeah, and the guy is a blatant liar. He says one thing in the morning, another thing in the afternoon, he's a charlatan, right? And so this caught my attention, 15% among evangelicals, which shows that there's an avenue for an important debate with Brazilian society, so that Brazilian society isn't deceived by false moralists, false preachers. That's it. Let's go, Lari.

[00:19:22]Now, Miro, I really liked what you said here, which is neither depression nor euphoria, but without depression and without euphoria, I think another thing that was also a government measure that counted well for our side was the issue of revoking the tax on blouses, right?

[00:19:37]That was also something that people didn't like much, Mircia, because it was before this fraternal scandal, as Inácio said, of all these brothers getting together, that to Our joy was already there, there was already growth in Lula's support. Do you think we can say that a favorable trend is forming for Lula? Is it possible for us to say that, or do you think that's the case? Without depression, without euphoria, it's better to hold back a little, to lower the expectations a bit, let's not go into saying it's already won. What do you think?

[00:20:17]So, L, I'm one of the cautious ones, right? Especially because when there isn't much caution, a lot of mistakes start to happen, a lot of arrogance, a lot of sectarianism, a lot, right? A lot of arrogance starts to happen, a lot of hubris, right? A lot of pride, right? The Planalto Palace already has this problem, right? An Olympus, so it's already a plateau, so it's good to be careful not to have too much pride, right?

[00:20:44]Because that's it, it's a very difficult election, it's not an easy election, it's an election where you take all the factors and they work against you. All the factors work against you. I don't trust any of them.

[00:20:56]Iranians too, no. I don't trust a single penny in the friendly relationship with Trump. Not a single penny, right? The whole " chemistry" thing... Trump's "chemistry" is toxic. What I mean is, the Iranians, in the middle of negotiations, they go there and bomb, kill, right? It's going to get bogged down, right?

[00:21:16]So I don't trust a single penny in this idea that the situation has improved now. Lula was there, he was well received, right? And I love it, and now everything is fine. It's not fine. It's not fine because the empire has a project for Latin America. The project for Latin America is the so-called Project 2025 of the Heritage Foundation. It's explicitly stated there that it's about retaking the backyard. And they are investing heavily to retake the backyard. It's been since the coup, right, which is what they did with the kidnapping, the bombing of Venezuela, isn't that right?

[00:21:53]Kidnapping the president, the vice-president, killing 100 people, bombing three states. So, since military actions, right, Trump was elected on a platform of no Having actions abroad. There have already been eight wars, haven't there? So, from military actions to direct interference in elections. They interfered, the United States interfered directly in the Argentine election. Milei was about to be defeated in the legislative election. Trump said: "Look, I have 20 billion dollars to lend." "I'll only lend if Milei wins." He won.

[00:22:29]Of course. A suffocated, asphyxiated country, and he won.

[00:22:34]He directly interfered in the Honduran election, releasing a drug-trafficking president imprisoned in the United States to campaign for a far- right candidate in Honduras to defeat Zelaya's team, isn't that right?

[00:22:50]He directly interfered in the Chilean election to guarantee the victory of a Pinochet-esque, Nazi-like offspring. Fast.

[00:23:00]So, as pretty as the scene was in the United States, at the White House, I don't have an ounce of faith in the empire. So this empire will interfere in the election. So that's one factor.

[00:23:14]Another factor, the god of the market, the Brazilian financial vultures, Faria Lima, the Brazilian bourgeois sewer, people call it the elite, I prefer to call it the sewer. This Brazilian bourgeois sewer, this place is extremely reactionary.

[00:23:30]Just look at the behavior it's having with this banner of ending scale 61.

[00:23:36]Just look at the lobbying being done in the Federal Chamber by the main business entities.

[00:23:42]This sewer doesn't like... Lula's government, right? So this political establishment, whatever it can do to destabilize, it's looking for its candidate. It's still betting on Flávio Rachadinho.

[00:23:56]Flávio's candidacy hasn't ended, in my opinion, because if it ends, it's a very serious problem for the Bolsonaro clan, not for the far right, but for the Bolsonaro clan, right?

[00:24:06]So the bourgeois political establishment will continue because it doesn't like social programs, it doesn't like a strong state, it doesn't like these more assertive foreign relations, even if the impetus has decreased a little, it doesn't like this 6-for-1 end-of-scale business, it does n't like minimum wage increases, it doesn't like more austerity. The new fiscal framework is an austerity program, a little better than the spending cap, but it's an austerity program. Even so, this bourgeois political establishment doesn't like it, it wants more austerity, it wants more cuts to leave more money for rent-seeking. Right? To have a surplus, there's a trillion left over, they want more for rent-seeking.

[00:24:51]So you have the bourgeoisie against you, you have the National Congress. This National Congress is the result of 2022, which was a disaster from a legislative point of view.

[00:25:04]We defeated fascism with Lula's election, but we lost the state governments, we lost the Senate, and we lost in the Chamber of Deputies. In the Senate, there was only one [governor], wasn't there, Larina? Who elected you in '22?

[00:25:17]Come on, let's go, let's get the names from '22, look. Go ahead. Hamilton Mourão, coup-plotting general, Bolsonaro's vice-president, that [unclear], secretary of fisheries, involved in a lot of shady dealings in fishing, fishing for other things.

[00:25:35]That Moro, the one who made a fool of himself yesterday with that silly face he made next to Flávio [ unclear], right, Moro? Then you have an astronaut in São Paulo, a guy who doesn't even set foot on land, a staunch Bolsonaro supporter. You have Damares [unclear], elected in the Federal District. Federal. You have this crazy guy, the one who beats up Magno Malta's staff in Espírito Santo, Cleitinho in Minas, in other words, it was a disaster, I don't know.

[00:26:08]Of the 10 most voted federal deputies in Brazil in 2022, eight are far-right. Not right-wing.

[00:26:17]Not center-right.

[00:26:19]Far-right. It's Nicolas, Zambelli, and Dudu Bananinha. Of this group that was elected, only two escaped. Only Bol escaped among the 10, only Bolos and Tábata escaped.

[00:26:34]That's it.

[00:26:34]Hmm. I was looking yesterday at the top 20, only four escaped. 16 far-right among the 20 most voted. In 2022, the left, in a very broad way, elected 133 deputies. If you add the Federação Fé Brasil, isn't that right? PT, PCdoB, and PV. If I add the Federação Pessoa Rede, if I add PSB and PDT, the seven, they elected 133 deputies. Only only The PL, which is the hotbed of Bolsonarism, but it's not the only Bolsonarist party. The PL alone elected 99 deputies, now it has 101.

[00:27:17]Yes, it was the one that grew the most, right? It was the one that grew the most. It was the one that grew the most. It had elected 99, it fell to 80-something and now it grew because it's the expectation of power, right? It grew, it grew to 101, it's the largest bloc.

[00:27:34]So you have a National Congress that 's a piece of cake when it comes to doing shady things. This thing that was done, that was done in the Supreme Court nomination, right? It makes no sense at all. The guy has notorious knowledge, the guy has, right? An ethical life, right? And even so he was rejected, rejected in an alliance, Bolsonarism, centrão, Alcolumbre's opportunism.

[00:28:00]So, look there. Let's add it all up : Lari, empire, God, market, Congress, media, media, because the media was divided into two groups first. Right now, but she's blocked.

[00:28:16]She doesn't like Lula's political project. She hasn't been able to find a third way so far. That's what she's having difficulty with. She's searching, searching, searching for Godona and can't find her, right? Uh, but the media, right? It's the media. Yes, that 's it. Remember Globo's PowerPoint presentation, remember that awful Veja cover. That awful Veja cover about films, about film financing.

[00:28:43]That cover was awful. It reminds me of Veja's worst moments. So, the media, you have it against you, you have it against you. And there's a fourth, a fifth factor that I think is a problem for us, which are our difficulties, the difficulties of the left, politically and socially, our difficulties, difficulties in mobilizing for May Day, difficulties, we have difficulties, right, in increasing pressure, in having a greater presence, right, in the legislatures. You see the labor movement. The labor movement elected 90, no, 80-something deputies in 2010.

[00:29:25]It was the best election for the labor movement in 2010. The last election elected 32, right? So we are weakened. We improved during Lula's period, it helped to strengthen us, so much so that union membership grew, 780,000 new members. It improved, but we are still very fragile. So, if I put together, I only listed five small factors here, if I put together these five factors, I don't get carried away at all. I think it 's a very difficult election.

[00:29:59]By the way, about these things, these things about the demonstrations, São Paulo is, let's say, starting to stand out, right? This Wednesday there was a large demonstration, right? Very important, right? Extremely important.

[00:30:13]It's a good demonstration. Miro, about this thing with Flávio Bolsonaro, let's say, he will hardly be removed and so on, but it could also get complicated, right? Do you believe that he Will he go all the way? They've already mentioned Michele, you've already mentioned here that Michele, I mean, in the polls Michele performs worse than him, right? Do you think there's a possibility of a third option emerging? And a related question, let's say, right?

[00:30:49]Flávio Bolsonaro, uh, there's a certain, let's say, he's generated a certain distrust, right? Uh, in the so- called Faria Lima, right? With this Vorcaro story and all that, right? Because they also want to get rid of this Vorcaro plague and all that. But Flávio Bolsonaro has advanced, and his camp has advanced in relation to this 6-to-1 scale thing, right?

[00:31:21]He presented a proposal, he's positioning himself against it. Do you think there's also an attempt to hold on in this middle ground?

[00:31:31]So, Inácio, let's see one day at a time, right? Uh, every day a new accusation is surfacing, right? Even if sectors of the media try to suppress it. Very interesting.

[00:31:41]Fantastic. Fantastic. They didn't cover that. One of the most important weekend news programs in Brazil didn't talk about the episode, the love affair, FER, Flávio Rachadinha, Daniel Vorcaro.

[00:31:57]Interesting. Even if sectors of the media try to suppress it, right? Every day a new accusation emerges. Every day a new accusation emerges. Now there's this accusation of financing an NGO linked to militias in Rio de Janeiro, R$199,000 for an NGO connected to the Brasão brothers, Chiquinho, right, the congressman and the one who was from the Federal Court of Accounts, the State Court of Accounts, right, and a businessman in the fuel sector, right, this accusation has surfaced. It's a serious accusation too, right? It's a huge scheme. The guy, the guy who was the intermediary in this deal, joined Flávio Rachadinha, participated in the plot to assassinate Mariel and Anderson. He participated in the plot, right? The guy messing around, you see, this business of parliamentary amendments is one thing.

[00:32:48]Crazy. Man, she's already messed with over R$ millions of reais in parliamentary amendments. This guy Peixe [snoring] is a retired military policeman from Rio de Janeiro who's involved in the scheme of Marielle and Anderson's murder. So, accusations are coming. So, let's keep bringing accusations. So, let's see. The impression I get is that for the family, Bolsonaro is in charge of the PL and a good part of the far- right spread across other parties, right? You take Damares and the Republicans. Is n't that right?

[00:33:23]Bolsonaro is also in charge of the Bolsonaro supporters spread across other parties, right?

[00:33:26]They all blame Bolsonaro or credit him for the wave that elected them. And... Every mafia has a capo, right, Miro?

[00:33:36]Every mafia has a capo. Exactly. There's the head of the criminal organization, right? There's the boss. The boss is wearing an ankle monitor, he's under house arrest, he's having problems, but... He's the boss. He's already said he's supporting his son's candidacy. His brother has already said he's supporting his candidacy because if he withdraws his son's candidacy, then it's a problem for the Bolsonaro clan. The Bolsonaro clan would die, they'd be swept under the rug. And Nicolas, who's got a huge urge to devour the Bolsonaros, right? Nicolas will swallow the Bolsonaros whole, right? And others, right? So, the Bolsonaro family can't give up. Not even Michele. Michele isn't trustworthy for the Bolsonaro family. Michele isn't trustworthy. She has her own agenda, so not even Michele. That's why her awful little laugh yesterday when she asked him that horrible question.

[00:34:36]Michele, what do you have to say about [laughs]? Ask him. Man, that was incredibly awful, was n't it? She really let loose. Miro, she says the following, right? No, I came here to talk about something good about my friend. Talk about something bad, you ask Flávio. She really let loose. She didn't like it. From the beginning, she didn't like the candidacy, she wasn't campaigning, she was fighting. She fought with Flávio in Ceará, with Ciro Gomes, right? She fought in Santa Catarina, she was fighting everywhere, right? So, for the Bolsonaro clan, it's impossible to abandon the candidacy. It's impossible to abandon the candidacy because abandoning it would mean surrendering what they managed to build, which was to unite the Brazilian far-right. What Bolsonaro managed to do, given the political circumstances in the world and in Brazil, in my opinion, was to bring together all the strands of Brazilian fascism and merge them, right? He, who was very weak, a low-ranking politician, involved in corruption schemes, with only four votes for the presidency of the Chamber of Deputies, was a very weak politician due to the political circumstances, a wave of far-right politics in the world, right, due to various factors. He managed to bring them together, to let them withdraw Flávio is to acknowledge the crime, and it's a very serious problem for the boss of... Mafia, for the mafia boss, for the head of the criminal organization. It's a very serious problem, isn't it? So I think they maintain and they also work with the idea that they have around 30%, 35% of the consolidated votes, right? That's it. And those who support Bolsonaro, Bolsonaro supporters have never worried about this issue of corruption, ethics, morality. This is villainy, this is cynicism. Because the guy already knows that Flávio "Rachadinha" (a corruption scheme involving the misappropriation of public funds) had a huge glass ceiling that was going to shatter. The guy, the guy who votes, who is a fanatic, already knows that Flávio Bolsonaro is the Flávio of the "Rachadinhas," already knows about Fabrício Queiroz, about Miche's check, right? Already knows, already knows that Flávio Bolsonaro is the Flávio of the militia, of Adriano da Nóbrega, of the crime office, of the decoration of criminals in prison, of employees assigned to his office, appointed by the militia. Already knows, already You know that Flávio Bolsonaro is the guy behind the 51 houses paid for in cash. They love talking about Pix (Brazilian instant payment system), but they always pay in cash, which is strange, it looks like money laundering. You already know that Flávio Bolsonaro is the guy who received a dubious loan from BRB in Brasília to buy a small house worth R$ 5.8 million, a mansion in Brasília, right? You already know who even financed the loan, that Paulo Henrique, the president of BRB in Brasília, is in jail.

[00:37:43]Bolsonaro's voters, the voters of the Bolsonaro family, already know this, right? They make speeches about ethics and moralism, just to fool the gullible.

[00:37:54]They love criminals, they loved the military dictatorship with its corruption, they loved Maluf, they love the Bolsonaro clan, they love criminals, right? So they are as much criminals as the criminals they lead, who are voted for, they are just as criminal. So they know they can count on this segment, which is a kind of fixed vote.

[00:38:16]These are the facets of fascism in... Brazil, right? Patriarchy with machismo and misogyny, slavery with racism, violence.

[00:38:26]They used to say Brazilian society is very cordial, right? Gilberto Freire is indeed cordial. But it really kills, right? The violence, the shooting, the shooting. So, these various strands of fascism have come together and they have this somewhat in their hands. So, they're going to let go of this, they're going to let go. I think it's difficult, maybe, unless very serious accusations emerge, even more serious, right? An escalation is possible, but I think it's difficult because it would be like shooting themselves in the head, it would be the end of this Bolsonaro clan. The far right would be in the hands of others, right? So, these guys are going to... the definition will be very... now is July, August, end of July, August, which are the party conventions. It's the time, it's July 20th, August 5th, August 6th, I don't know when, right, which is the time to make the final decision, right, at the party conventions. It will continue very... " Wow, so many trial balloons, right? So, there was this trial balloon from Michonne, right? Uh, other trial balloons will appear, but there's not much room to maneuver. This guy will go all the way. If he keeps disintegrating, dehydrating, right, with that face, it always reminds me of Flávio Bolsonaro, it always reminds me of that debate for the Rio de Janeiro mayoralty, when he had that face and said the smell in the studio was very strong, right? A terrible stench. If he keeps dehydrating, kind of like that with diarrhea, right? Uh, let's see, maybe, but it's difficult. The media has made a huge effort to find this so-called third way.

[00:40:15]The damn third way.

[00:40:18]Faria Lima, a part of Faria Lima, because there's another part that loves Flávio, Flávio Bolsonaro, right? There's another part that loves Flávio Bolsonaro, right?

[00:40:27]Uh, especially because it was the Bolsonaros who guaranteed this freedom for financial capital that's now in Banco Master, right?" Well, if Bolsonaro returns, Ciro Nogueira's project, which increases the credit guarantee fund, might increase from 250 to 1 million, right? So this group likes it, they really like it, right? A bunch of scoundrels, it's the Brazilian bourgeois sewer, they're the financial vultures, right? A part is still trying another way, the centrão is trying another way, but it's difficult. So we can't have that. We can have... Now, with him losing support, Inácio, here's a little idea for us to throw around. With him losing support, Lula's candidacy strengthening. Then maybe it would be worthwhile to discuss campaign strategy, a campaign more focused on electing senators, senators, which will be a violent stage for political struggle in the coming period, and a stronger federal bench, right?

[00:41:31]Stronger to try to get out of one of the adverse situations this government has had, which was the National Congress, right? To try to get out of this mess, right? Then maybe it would be worthwhile if the polls indicate that he's really losing support and the right wing is left without... Alternatives, then a change in electoral strategy would be worthwhile. It would make for a great debate. Mir, that 's it. Let's see. Go ahead, Lari.

[00:42:03]And now you've already talked about the five points, right, that we had to pay attention to, and one of them, which I think is your specialty, is the issue of the media, right? I wanted you to explain a little better how the mainstream media, right? How the PIG, the party of the coup-mongering press, as our late love used to say, speaks, what is its role in this? And in contrast, what is the role of the alternative media? This year we already had a bloggers' meeting, and on the 20th there will be a youth media meeting. How is both the traditional media playing and what is the role of the alternative media in this process?

[00:42:37]So, L, the impression I have, the reading I have, may be totally wrong. The media, this hegemonic media, in 2022 it was divided, it was a historic division, right?

[00:42:52]One part, all the media had helped to To hatch the egg of the fascist serpent in Brazil, by denying politics.

[00:43:01]Historically, the denial of politics always leads to fascism, right? So, all the media helped hatch the egg of the fascist serpent, right? In the impeachment of President Dilma, in the imprisonment of President Lula, right? It was they who allowed such a low-level individual, such an unqualified individual, to be elected president of the Republic. They allowed it. So, Globo is responsible for Bolsonaro's election. Globo says it is n't, but it is, right? It was one of the main media outlets in creating the climate of political denial, of demonizing the left in Brazil, demonizing the popular movement, demonizing Lula, right? Much of what exists in Brazilian society has to do with that period, that entire historical period of the Lula and Dilma governments, which the media attacked relentlessly, relentlessly, in a murderous, criminal way, right?

[00:43:58]So, all of this media hatched the serpent's egg. They are all responsible for Jair's election. Messias Bolsonaro. But during the campaign there was a division.

[00:44:09]One part campaigned for Jair Messias Bolsonaro. So you take SBT, from the late Silvio Santos, right, from "Topa Tudo por Dinheiro" (Anything for Money). Cor, that guy who has a bank that's also in crisis, Edir Macedo, isn't that right? Uh, Rede TV, from that pair of deadbeat businessmen, the young clan of Tutinha, right? Young bread, it's the young clan, right? All this group openly campaigned for Bolsonaro.

[00:44:45]There was a part that said: "Hey, this guy is a danger to us."

[00:44:50]This had already appeared when they confronted Bolsonaro during the Covid pandemic, while Bolsonaro was making jokes about people dying, right? Talking against the vaccine, talking against masks, and so on. A part of the media played a very important role, even creating a consortium to publish the official death numbers and expose the denialism of the genocidal Jair Bolsonaro, of the 700-odd thousand in Brazil, right?

[00:45:19]So, a part of the media had already broken with him, right? You see, the cultural sector, the telenovela sector at Globo, played a very important role—it's different from Globo's journalism sector, right?

[00:45:33]Globo's telenovela production has always had a progressive role, raising important issues for Brazilian society, right? With Bolsonaro's obscurantism, this sector didn't align with Bolsonaro. On the contrary, the artists played a very important role in denouncing Bolsonarism.

[00:45:51]So there was a division in 2022.

[00:45:55]Following that... The media came together again. What did it come together again on? In search of a third way. They worked the entire time on a third way, and they already had their third way. They created, they managed to transform Tarcis de Freitas, who is a mediocre governor, right? A governor only needs to look at what's happening with Sabesp, with the privatization of Sabesp, only needs to look at what's happening in the public security sector in São Paulo, education, health. He's a mediocre governor, a governor who's good for the landowners, for the rural landowners who don't even give land away for free to rural landowners. Just look at what's happening in Pontal do Paranapanema.

[00:46:38]Absurd business. And it's good for businessmen, for the rich. No, young businessman, not those so-called entrepreneurs for real businessmen, the rich ones, because it's a lot of tax exemptions, a lot of tax privileges.

[00:46:52]The Faria Lima crowd loves Tarcísio, I adore Tarcísio. Tarcísio is the big boss of the bourgeois sewer of São Paulo. Well, that was the media's candidate. The media focused on him and started campaigning. So much so that it's a complete shield. Nobody talks about Tarcío's dirty secrets. Impressive.

[00:47:12]Impressive. Nobody talks about Tarcísio's administrative incompetence. Impressive, isn't it? He shielded it.

[00:47:19]So, Tarcísio was the candidate. But Tarcísio chickened out, he was terrified, was n't he? He was, he is, he was the candidate. When the time came for him to take over, he preferred to say the following: "Hey, I'm not going to betray my creator, I risk becoming a Joyce Halfman. I'm not going to betray my creator." And he chickened out. I think the media is in a difficult situation right now because it tried and tried to create a third way and failed.

[00:47:53]Your media darling candidate refused, he chickened out. He chickened out. She even tried others, she even went so far as to unite a faction to support a guy from SBT, the son of the big shot from SBT, who is Ratinho from Paraná, right? But even Ratinho from Paraná gave up. Regarding the "Ratinho do Paraná" (Little Rat from Paraná) scandal, that whole business with the resort in Paraná and his connections to Vorcaro, it seems there's some trouble going on there. Maybe Ratinho realized it was going to work, right? Imagine, imagine the kind of blackmail that may have been used by Bolsonaro supporters against both Tarciso and Ratinho, right?

[00:48:34]So it is. So it is. The game was intense. The game isn't saying now that Tarcísio, Tarcísio was stabbed, to use an expression they love to use, like a knife, etc. Tarcis was stabbed in the back by Flávio Bolsonaro because Flávio Bolsonaro should have spoken about this Vorcaro issue, about the Vorcaro relationship. He hid his relationship with Vorcaro to prevent Tarcísio from running for office. To prevent Tarcísio from running for office. Who knows what happened in Paraná, right? You even saw the ring with that grumpy-looking guy yesterday, right? With Moro, right? Moro went to the PL, right? In a dispute with Ratinho over there.

[00:49:13]Tarcis Emiro, Tarcis, it's good to remember that you received money from Vorcara in the 2022 campaign. Millions of reais from that pastor, a pastor named Fabiano Zé, who is Vorcara's brother-in-law and who was the operator. He's in jail, right? He's in jail. There's not much talk about that pastor, poor guy, he must be praying a lot. Oh, he's in jail, right?

[00:49:34]In the corn.

[00:49:35]It's him. This was the main individual campaign financier. It was that pastor, Fabrício, Fabrício Zé, Vorcaro's brother-in-law, married to Vorcaro's sister, right? And he donated three million reais to Bolsonaro and two million reais to Tarcis, this ethical figure here in São Paulo. Well, then I think that's where the media, the media got into trouble, it couldn't manage it. And she keeps trying to do that, right?

[00:50:04]Luciano Hul already tried, he already tried several third options in 2022. He tried, didn't he?

[00:50:10]He tried again, and again, but he couldn't. Because things aren't easy, this isn't a problem of incompetence on the part of the Brazilian media. It's just that it's difficult to find centrist candidates in the world.

[00:50:21]Centrist candidates around the world are dragging everyone down in a world that is becoming increasingly polarized. Centrist candidates are sinking, right? It's amazing what's happening to what's called the center of the world, is n't it? It's not in Brazil. So it's not incompetence on the part of the Brazilian media. She didn't succeed and now she's in a difficult situation because she doesn't like this media, she doesn't like Lula's government project, she keeps saying it's a wasteful government, she keeps saying it 's a demagogic government, right? Every day, this VIP box says: "Demagoguery from the Lula government, demagoguery from the Lula government." He should understand this issue of fiscal austerity well, especially given his marital relationship. You must understand this perfectly, right? Wow, but saying that every day is impressive, isn't it? So this media doesn't like, doesn't like Lula's government, no. Even though Lula's government was a mild one, it wasn't a government of major confrontations; it was a government of negotiation, it conceded a lot. Even so, this media doesn't like it, but it has n't been able to create another way, has it?

[00:51:36]In my opinion, Lario, one sector was starting to fawn over Flávio Bolsonaro, so much so that they had forgotten his last name. Impressive.

[00:51:45]His last name no longer appeared; it was just Flávio. Flavio. Flavio. I was just waiting for some of those columnists nicknamed Flavinho to show up, which must be how Vorcaro refers to him in the privacy of their bedroom, right? And I was just waiting for the time, right? But even the Folha Ombudsman said: "Wait a minute, it ca n't be like this, did they forget Flávio's last name? It's Bolsonaro.

[00:52:11]A sector of the media was holding back, a sector of the media was holding back on this Master Bank issue. The media sector wanted to make sure that Master Bank went to everyone. The blame for Master Bank's corruption is yours, Lari, it's mine, it's Inácio's, it's everyone's, right? Everyone, when everyone knows that Master Bank is a creation of the far right. Master Bank is a bank with 0.5% capitalization, it's not a big bank, it's a small bank. A small bank in Faria Lima, not a big São Paulo bank. And then there's the fight between them too, right? Uh, Master Bank only grew during the reign, in the shadows, in the darkness of Jair Bolsonaro. Master Bank only grew because there was a guy at the Central Bank called Bob Fields Neto. Oh, no, the name is Roberto Campos Neto. Roberto Campos Neto, right? Who has a bloodline origin, Right?

[00:53:09]He messed everything up, made everything easier. The government even had two directors at the Central Bank, they were arrested. Two puppets in Roberto Campos Neto's administration, they were only fired by Galipo, isn't that right? You see, the media doesn't talk about Roberto Campos Neto.

[00:53:31]Impressive. He's the main person responsible for this mess in the Brazilian financial system, this fintex mess. He's the main person responsible for this strange relationship between fintex and organized crime, money laundering. He's the main person responsible. Nobody talks about him. So the media referred to Flávio Bolsonaro's "rachadinha" (embezzlement scheme) as "Flavinho" (little Flavinho).

[00:53:55]The media tried to generalize the relationship with Master Bank. They forgot to mention that the government financed a huge amount of money for Master Bank, right? Then there's Flávio Bolsonaro's falsehood in saying: "No, it's private money, not public money." Yeah, my friend, and the 12 billion from BRB to Master Bank, is that public or private? You bastard, right? A liar. And the 970 million from the civil servants' pension fund? Regarding the civil servants of Rio de Janeiro, is Rio Previdência public or private? You scoundrel, right? The media hardly talked about this relationship with Ibaneges. Now Ibaneges is getting into a real mess. He might not even be a candidate for the Senate. He started fighting with Celina. I'm rooting for the fight.

[00:54:40]I want them to fight a lot, don't you? You too, right? So it was Cláudio Castro, that butcher from Rio de Janeiro, who's another one who's dancing, he's become a toxic character, nobody wants to get close to that bastard, that Cláudio Castro, right? So it was that group. The media tried, it was Sadim's PowerPoint, wasn't it? Okay, okay, okay. Lula, PT.

[00:55:09]Oh, wait, wait, and then they say: "Sorry, I was wrong." Oh, go to hell, sorry, I was wrong. After everything spread, after the Bolsonaro supporters used that point in the digital sewer, right? Then they say: "Sorry, I was wrong." Oh, come on, right?

[00:55:27]So, the media was in this, this, this stance. Now it's more difficult. Now it's more difficult, right? To call Flávio Bolsonaro "Flavinho" is more difficult. Flávio has this romantic relationship with Vorcardo, right? It's more difficult. Let's see how the media will behave. I think they might try a cover-up operation. They might try a cover-up operation, right?

[00:55:53]Do more or less what was done with Ciro Nogueira. Ciro Nogueira has already disappeared from the media. Impressive, man. He received 300 to 500k from Vorco, in monthly payments, right? He disappeared from the media.

[00:56:06]It was a huge monthly payment, right? It wasn't a... Yes, a huge monthly payment. He must be on some boat belonging to a bigwig in the Greek islands, which he loves to do, right? He disappeared.

[00:56:17]So, there might be a cover-up operation.

[00:56:19]Let's see, Lari, right? And there might be a cover-up operation. Once you play, turn on the fan in the sewer, spread it to everyone. That's the text from yesterday's episode of Gaspar on Globo. Malu Gaspar, right?

[00:56:34]That's it.

[00:56:35]And that's Malu Gaspar's text from yesterday on Globo. No, this "master" thing is for everyone, it's right and left, right? It could be this, it could be a movement that happens. We have to see how it goes, how it will play out on digital networks too, right? In this world that you know very well, you're a scholar, right? Everyone praising your class at Barão's course, congratulating you. L, you gave a show, right? Eh, as it happens in the first 8 hours, Flávio Bolsonaro's name went downhill after years of being a snake, right?

[00:57:17]Eh, it got very bad, right? 69% negative dimensions, right, on social media, right? But then they started to recover ground again. They responded and started to recover ground. And other issues came to the forefront, right, and gained strength.

[00:57:33]Vini's separation from that girl, right, Well, Virginia, right? It blew up, and so on, other issues. So, initially, Bolsonarism suffered a lot on digital networks, but in a second moment, it managed a certain recovery. The role of alternative media.

[00:57:53]I think the first highlight of alternative media is The Intercept.

[00:57:56]The Intercept is a progressive website, and the role they were playing in this battle against the 6x1 pay scale is excellent. The Intercept's articles are excellent on the business lobbyists against the end of the 6x1 pay scale. Excellent, right? That guy, João Filho, right? He does excellent articles, right? And showing, among other things, this relationship between the mastermind and the Brazilian far-right, discrediting Flávio Bolsonaro.

[00:58:25]So, what came to light, what brought to light these dialogues in audio, in texts, this romantic relationship between Flávio "Rachadinha" and Daniel Vorcaro.

[00:58:39]Impressive, right? The Intercept is running a fundraising campaign because it's having difficulty surviving, right?

[00:58:46]Even so, it went after it, got all the paperwork, did a great journalistic job. Right? Hours and hours of recording texts, they did a great job as journalists, they got the whole team focused on it, and so on. Does Globo have a slightly larger team than The Intercept?

[00:59:03]Couldn't Globo have been the one to make this exposé? Besides, it's good to remember, it 's good to remember, it's good to remember that it was The Intercept that discredited Moro, Lava Jato, and so on.

[00:59:16]Exactly. Exactly. That discredited Marreco, that discredited Marreco from Maringá, who was an ally, was Globo's darling, was Milan Leitão's darling, was Globo's darling. There are even books of flattery written by a Globo journalist about Moro, and so on. So, it was The Intercept. It was The Intercept and now again The Intercept.

[00:59:37]The question is this: with a small team, with difficulties, campaigning to raise money to be able to carry out the journalistic work, The Intercept did this. Couldn't Globo have had a... Investigative journalism uncovered this? They didn't do it because they didn't want to. It's not the network's political line, it's not the political line of the global empire, right? Folha de São Paulo didn't do it either because they didn't want to, because they have a larger team than The Intercept. Estadão didn't do it either because they didn't want to, because they have a larger team. But the thing is, investigative journalism serves to investigate what is of political and economic interest to the network.

[01:00:14]So, to highlight. When you ask about the role of alternative media, the first highlight is The Intercept, right? It's The Intercept. The second highlight is that all the media, all the channels, the, right, the alternative media sites came in strong. "Let's take this accusation and let's not let the dust settle at all. Let's keep hitting them, showing the connections, right? Showing the connections, right? Connections including Master's with far-right digital influencers, with the likes of this, right?

[01:00:50]Connections including Master's with monopolistic media sites.

[01:00:58]There [laughs] a connection with the owner of the Metrópolis website. What a connection. What good money." That one, right? Uh, the former colorful senator from the Federal District, impeached, the first one impeached, right?

[01:01:12]Connections including with broadcasters, the connection with Luciano Hul, right?

[01:01:17]Gasparzinho keeps saying it's absurd that they never realized Master's role. Yeah, ask Luciano Hul, they work together, right? Luciano Hul's program, Domingão do Hul, the biggest sponsor was Will Bank, which was Master's digital arm. So, ask Luciano Hul, why didn't he know? Oh, Luciano Hul, ask him, Gasparzinho, right? Uh, so this alternative media is beating the drum, going after it with its difficulties, but it has produced excellent articles, right?

[01:01:51]Highlight there in red, highlight all these progressive sites, they have done excellent articles that fuel the battle on social media, right? That fuel the work of the activists, the training to face this election war this year. It seems that way to me. I don't know. If that's what you wanted to know, Lário. I ended up talking a lot here. Nothing, Miro. I'm just going to quickly interrupt Inácio to say that Vorcaro understood the role and importance of the media so well that he was trying to form a media conglomerate, right?

[01:02:33]And among the media outlets he was trying to buy, right? This is the one that's on strike now, the workers with delayed salaries. So, sometimes we don't give much importance to alternative media, but Vorcaro was keeping a close eye on that, right? Go ahead, Inácio. That 's not it. Yesterday, yesterday I was just, sorry, Inácio. Yesterday I was with Viné, yes, the director of the journalists' union, I was with him at TVT and he was reporting on the dramatic situation at Estué, because, that's it, Estué was already in crisis with Editora 3, it was sold to this Entre Participações. This Entre Participações is one of the ones involved in this Dark Horse movie mess, right, of Dark Underdog, isn't that right? Eh, eh, and this one isn't paying. The freelancers haven't been paid since March, right? And there's no one to negotiate with because we were declared bankrupt. So, as Viné said yesterday, we have no one to negotiate with, it's difficult, right?

[01:03:36]So, a dramatic situation. This was one that Vorcaro was keeping an eye on, he was keeping a close eye on the plateau. Look at this interesting thing, right?

[01:03:45]What a thing, right? There was a very interesting relationship with Metrópolis, with the owner of Metrópolis. From the owner of Metrópolis, it's a huge amount of money, 20- something million, if I'm not mistaken, I'd have to confirm that, right? And impressive. It's money that went in through the Metrópolis website, and the next day it was already in the three other companies of the president of the former senator from the Federal District, right? It was already there. So the suspicion remained, there's no money laundering there. It goes in one pipe and comes out another. Something Strange.

[01:04:18]What a [ __ ] mystery. He's a senator with a pretty bad record, the owner of the Metrópolis website. He was setting things up in jail. No, he 's in jail.

[01:04:29]No, he's not free. He's free, Dan. But, but he was convicted. He's involved in that business with that, that little thing on his leg, right?

[01:04:36]That little watch on his leg.

[01:04:38]I don't even know if he's still there, you know, Inácio? You'd have to give him a big hug, right? But he's the one who stood out.

[01:04:45]Definable, he's at that level, right?

[01:04:47]He's the guy who stood out, he was the leader of Collor de Melo's shock troops.

[01:04:54]Then he became a Bolsonaro supporter, he was arrested, he created Metrópole. In prison he created it, he's the guy from the Brasília real estate sector, he has a lot of money, right? But it was very strange that this money arrived in Metrópole's account one day and left the next day.

[01:05:09]But the interesting thing is what you're saying, and Lari, he was setting up a scheme with influencers, which is It's an impressive business. This whole social column thing, what's it like? Léo, Léo, I do n't know what.

[01:05:23]Léo Dias. Léo Dias, who has daily programs on Band. Dias. That's it. That base he was setting up, it was a huge scheme, right? He had an office built.

[01:05:37]There are already leaks from the office built to build this network of influencers.

[01:05:43]Impressive. The guy had a power project, the guy was cunning.

[01:05:48]In this thing about connections, right? I mean, it was announced this Wednesday that Marcelão, who was the marketing strategist for Bolsonarinho, as Haddad says, was leaving.

[01:06:04]Bolsonarinho, in turn, had won, I saw this this morning, even, this Thursday morning, a multi-million dollar bid with the São Paulo government. And then the São Paulo government had to cancel, they arranged something, said there was a problem with the bidding process, and the same guy, this Marcelão, also won a bid in the Senate. " That's the guy who orchestrated the scheme to attack the Central Bank at the very time Vorcaro's convictions were emerging. So, what a coincidence, right? What a coincidence. This same guy who helped Vorcaro attack the Central Bank was Flávio Bolsonaro's marketing strategist, right? So, that's it. This group doesn't play small, they play big, right? They set up their schemes, you know? And I think that's right, to highlight the role of this progressive media. By the way, I want to mention, including in relation to The Intercept, this fundraising campaign they are doing, which is very important for their maintenance and also, folks, because The Intercept is being sued by politicians, by businessmen, by police officers, by I don't know who, I don't know who. I saw the other day that there are, it seems, 25 lawsuits against The Intercept, right? And they need resources, including for... And so here's our call for solidarity. But Miro, man, unfortunately, time is..." It's, let's say, the enemy of good conversations, right? [laughs] We'll continue on Saturday with a little cachaça on the side.

[01:07:51]Saturday will be more lively, right?

[01:07:54]That's when it'll go on for a while.

[01:07:55]It will. I thank you very much, Miro, for this conversation. We hadn't yet had a conversation here on Entre Elias, and we'll most likely have others.

[01:08:06]Excellent. Thank you very much for the invitation.

[01:08:08]Congratulations on your work. Lari, big kiss, see you Saturday. Inácio, big kiss, see you Saturday.

[01:08:14]Congratulations on your work.

[01:08:16]Great, Miro. Thank you very much. And so we, thank you, Lari. We then conclude another edition of the Entre Linhas Vermelhas program. And I want to pay tribute here, we hadn't yet done it on Entrelinhas, to a guy who would certainly be very involved in this debate, Raimundo Rodrigues Pereira, who passed away three weeks ago and left an extraordinary legacy in popular communication, in alternative media, in the Movimento newspaper, let's say, which was the greatest expression of his work.

[01:08:52]So, our tribute to Raimundo Rodrigues Pereira, who passed away three weeks ago, and a hug to his daughters and his partner. We conclude this edition of the "Entrelinhas Vermelhas" program, presented by myself and Larissa.

[01:09:09]The script was mine, in conversation with Larissa, Guomar, and the whole team – that's how we create the best work.

[01:09:18]Production by Circos Filmes, direction by Patrícia Santos and Vandera Fernandes, editing and artwork by San Marcelão, executive support by Eliz Brandão, and general support by the Maurício Grabós Foundation.

[01:09:34]Thank you, and we hope to see you next week with another edition of " Entrelinhas Vermelhas." A hug to everyone.

[01:09:42][music] " Entre linhas vermelhas," an analysis of the week's highlights from the portal.