"Can Christian Struggle with Depression" | Faith Unfiltered

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:10]Heat.

[00:00:20][music] Heat.

[00:00:27][music] >> [music] [music] >> Good afternoon again. Happy Sabbath to one and all. Welcome back to another session of faithful filter third as we go through today's discussion as well. I hope that it will bring some joy, let me use that word, um even some enlightenment to us and it's going to be a very interesting discussion today. Um knowing that at some time in our lives maybe we would have experienced this. But before going into this afternoon's discussion, we're just going to start with a word of prayer. So let us pray. Father, we give you thanks once again for all the good things you have done for us. Thank you for all the struggles you have helped us to overcome. Dear God, Lord, I pray this time that as we go through the discussion, we ask that your spirit to be with us. Help that what is shared may help someone to draw closer to you in Jesus name. Amen.

[00:01:45]>> Amen.

[00:01:46]>> Amen.

[00:01:47]>> All right. So today um with me as we discuss very interesting topic, can Christians struggle with depression? Can Christians struggle with depression? Um I have with me today two lovely ladies.

[00:02:05]Um what I'll ask them to do is just maybe well one just introduce yourselves. I won't even try to take the um uh opportunity to do that and just maybe just tell us one interesting thing that you learned while doing your research for for this afternoon as well.

[00:02:23]So, I'll start with you, Ebony, and then I'll hear from >> Okay.

[00:02:28]>> my other panelists.

[00:02:29]>> Okay. Hi, everyone. Happy Sabbath. My name is Ebony and I am a licensed therapist. I specialize in treating complex trauma um generally relating to childhood experiences. And the one interesting thing that I learned is that Jeremiah might have been the author of Lamentations. And I thought that that was very interesting. and it tracks. It makes sense.

[00:02:57]>> Thank you so much for that. Um, Ebony, our our other guest, go right ahead.

[00:03:03]>> Right. Good afternoon to everybody. It's a pleasure to be here. I am K White. I am a 7th Day Adventist minister. I've been a 7th Day Adventist minister for the past 18 years.

[00:03:18]And presently I serve at the conference level as the executive secretary of the conference and it's a pleasure to be here. I think in my research I was able to determine not that I didn't know that before but I believe it was I'm now convinced that I too have experienced my own moment of depression and I think in the the conversation we'll share a little bit more on that. It's a pleasure to be here this afternoon.

[00:03:45]>> Thank you so much again pastor White.

[00:03:47]Always a pleasure to have you with us as we as we all know depression you know can we can Christians struggle with it but before we even dive deeper we need to know what depression is so Evony go right ahead if you can start with your definition of depression so we can know what we're working with this afternoon and I'll hear from pastor white as well.

[00:04:10]>> Sure. So I think um in everyday life we're kind of using depression and sadness as interchangeable but clinically depression is based on intensity, duration and um intensity, duration and frequency of the symptoms that you're feeling. So if you're having prolonged sadness and it's disrupting your life for more than two weeks or at least two weeks then that is generally termed depression and it could be mild, moderate or severe. And some of these symptoms might be you're not eating or you're feeling appetite changes, changes in weight. You don't want to take care of yourself. You don't want to brush your teeth. You know your hygiene is being affected. Maybe work is being affected. it's affecting relationships, interpersonal family. Um maybe your friends are seeing that they're things that are different with you. So, or you don't want to go outside. Um and generally like the things that are making you happy or the things that would generally make you happy and bring you joy, those things are not doing that anymore. And I think it's also important for us to kind of put like race and gender into the definition that we're working with because a lot of the times black people and specifically Caribbean people, we might be depressed and not know that we're depressed until maybe we're coming out of the depression because we're not sure or we're just being taught to carry on push through.

[00:05:39]Something else is more important than prioritizing what we're feeling.

[00:05:46]Um, Ebony here. Uh, generally in life we have moments of sorrow. We have moments of sadness and we become discouraged.

[00:05:55]It's a part of the human experience that you can be discouraged. You're unhappy about the situation. You may have had a relationship and that relationship failed and so you're sad. You may have been expecting a promotion. You did not get that promotion. You're discouraged.

[00:06:11]So there are circumstances in life which contribute to periods of sorrow and sadness but I think Eony said it beautifully uh generally an individual is able to bounce back and cope from those moments of sadness but if you get to the point where you're unable to cope it's affecting your life affecting your dayto-day ability to life to make life decisions to navigate the the the challenges then it's a little bit more than just sorrow and sadness. It can be something clinical and that's what we're talking about this afternoon as we speak about uh depression. So the average person, let me not say average because maybe that's not the best word, but generally individuals are able to cope with life challenges and difficulties.

[00:06:56]And this is in no way saying that we're not sorrow. We're not experiencing sorrow and pain and hurt. But when an individual gets to the point where he or she is unable now to move past this hurt and it disturbs every aspect of your life because they're holistic be beings.

[00:07:15]If it's affecting you emotionally, physically, psychologically, it just affecting your being and you just can't cope. then you need some you will need help to cope with that kind of reality because definitely there's a underlying issue or prevailing reality in your life that's really creating the environment for you not to cope and that's what we're going to discuss this afternoon what is really preventing you from coping with life's challenges which should be a part of the human experience >> as well pastor white you know what I I I saw interesting about the definition of depression um not necessarily depression But mean about a couple of things. One of the things it mentioned was about the mental your mental state or your mental health.

[00:08:00]Generally you never hear somebody says boy the person look depressed right no person somebody that's crazy or something. Nobody ever use the word boy that person look a bit depressed that's why they behave that way. Surprisingly but is a part of the whole depressive state surprising me because I was so shocked and I actually ch it now. I said, "Nobody ever said that, you know, that person is depressed." No, it's never that you're crazy. You like to use a Spanish term, you're loco, and whatever else, but it's because the person was depressed.

[00:08:32]Now, for today as well as we continue, go back to I'm going to start with you again. What are No, let me start with Pastor White first of all, and you what are some of the common signs or symptoms of someone struggling with depression?

[00:08:48]Yeah, as as we shared earlier, um individuals are generally able to cope with life challenges and be able to move past the hurt. It may take some time to do this, especially if you have a serious heartbreak, it may take some time, but when you're unable to move past that kind of hurt, but this the sadness is persistent. The emptiness, a feeling of emptiness, it is persistent, then it becomes a a challenge. I I I want to jump right in to share my own experience. I've had one moment in my life, one moment in my life, Eony, where I felt this was depression. I've never I never went to that place um since, but I just always consider it when I separated from my twin sister. That was the most discouraging time in my life. And I didn't understand what was happening. I was crying, but I had no emotions. The tears were just rolling down my eyes, but I didn't feel any way. that my body was just responding. And I've shared my testimony before that at that moment I was in bed for 3 days. My mom had to come and try to get me out of bed every single day. And you know, my sister and I, we grew up together. It was the first time in my entire life that we were not in the same space. First time in my entire life that we did not sleep under the same roof when she left for Andrew's University. And I I did not want her to know. So, she would call and talk about she's registered for class and she's talking and I'm just pretending that I'm okay. But only my mother knew that I really did not want to come out of bed.

[00:10:18]I didn't see a reason to come out of my bed until the Lord took me out of that.

[00:10:22]And I'll share a bit more as we move forward. But that feeling of emptiness like something is missing. Why am I here? That feeling of sorrow. And as we say, the average person, an individual should be able to move past that, but days will pass. And I think Ebony used in her professional experience um in the topic in the area she had more than two weeks and so a week has passed, two weeks has passed and you're still going through it. For me it was only three days but it was enough for me to realize that there was a problem. And so that's what I would share is that feeling of emptiness. It's persistent. It's persistent and you can't control it. You need help. And I think I would stop writing.

[00:11:04]>> Yeah. So the even though it's like two weeks, you know your body, right? And the intensity that I talked about, I mentioned earlier, how intense is this?

[00:11:14]How much is this disrupting your life?

[00:11:15]And for Sister White, thank you for sharing with us. It debilitated her. She couldn't get out of bed. She couldn't continue on with her days, right? Which is why it's important for us to know our routine and also our capacity. And also, if we're experiencing something or a mood or an emotion that we've, oh my goodness, I've never felt this way before, that is an indicator that we need to ask God about it. Talk to someone about it and be curious about it. Why? What is causing me to feel this particular way, right? Um, I would say another, um, hold on, let me check my notes. I have my little card deck here.

[00:11:52]Another sign of depression, um, I would say I guess that's that's what we're saying.

[00:12:03]Fine.

[00:12:04]>> Yes. Okay. If you're refusing to come out of bed, if you feel paralyzed, if you don't feel like you're in your body, you feel like you're on autopilot, um like it feels like I'm doing the motions, but I'm not really there. I'm not really present. Right? These these are all signs. Um I would add another uh two others. um isolation and loneliness. Sister White, I think you were also talking about that just to put our name to it. And also suicidal thoughts, which is something that we're kind of afraid to talk about. Maybe >> afraid. I don't think not at all. Um so I you mentioned suicidal thoughts. So I think that it's fair to say that every time somebody goes there is because they're facing some level of depression.

[00:12:51]Let's face it, Tiffany, >> I would say yes. They're feeling hopeless.

[00:12:57]I think depression um suicidal thoughts come about because people are severely depressed. They've lost hope and they probably feel alone for an extensive period of time.

[00:13:11]>> All right. So you know now you said that I was going to ask the other question but I just remembered something else just because you just made a statement like two years ago there was uh for the youth week of prayer they were addressing basically being alone and loneliness two different things right because you can be with someone and and I never trust me I'll never ever forget that you can be with someone and still experience loneliness because loneliness is not being with a person Now you know being alone by yourself is alone but loneliness is different because you can be with someone and still be experiencing loneliness right so being alone as two different things and I want persons to understand that so not because you're by yourself mean that you even alone or experiencing loneliness because you can be with a person and still being experiencing loneliness as well too. So it's all in the state all in in the mind in the mind for sure as well.

[00:14:11]So >> I wanted to add um added to what Ebony um shared. I wanted to add >> in relation to the physical and how it affects the physical. I had a a friend who was really navigating some health issues and challenges and you know pain and and the individual appeared to be depressed. But initially we felt the depression was was as a result of the pain and and you know this pain this constant pain and going to this doctor the doctor can't diagnose and so I'm thinking the depression is associated with the pain but every time the results came back there's nothing there's nothing there's nothing and then at one point you know we're able to discuss it and that individual had to seek professional help so it was really the the the depression that was creating the pain and that the pain really creat creating the the depression. So the depression can actually contribute to physical pain and discomfort and then that individual can't determine and you know Ebony said earlier that sometimes we sometime within the Caribbean context we don't even know that we're depressed and so you you're now attributing the depression to the pain when you have been depressed and you are now causing this physiological aspect of it and so it's interesting how it all plays out.

[00:15:32]>> Right. Right. Great point. Great point there. So now we know about the signs, but what causes depression? You know, what's the root of the problem? Where where's depression coming from, right? I know um pastor mentioned in your first submission about separation, which are very clear, you know, your sister was not with you anymore and that's what caused you to get to that state. But what are some of the other causes? So I think we can work with separation one.

[00:16:00]What are some of the other causes of of depression?

[00:16:04]Right. And when I spoke about separation, I'll speak to that point and let the trained specialist speak to um and I think the separation may have been caused by maybe our own childhood experiences because as we're twins and I'm sharing a lot of the platform today, we're twins and at some point we lived with grandparents. We were not living with our mother. So there was a separation at some point where we did not have our biological mother anymore. We were living with grandparents and then we were sent back to our biological mother. So we have been through moments in our own experience as twins where there have been separation and I believe that separation created that level of anxiety. So the fact that we had always had each other there to be that level of support at that moment where we separating and we're now going to live in two separate countries. My sister was living in Michigan. I was now in Antigga. it was that tra trauma maybe from childhood we relive it that now I don't have that safe pace so that separation issue could also come from hidden things in our childhood and it's understanding yourself and yes I'm a 7sem adventist pastor but I've done a lot in relation to counseling I've done a lot in my life to kind of understand who Kay is and why Kay operates the way she operates so I knew that that contributed to why I took the separation for my sister this half but God is should have been able to move past it now.

[00:17:30]>> All right, >> I'm sorry. What was the question again?

[00:17:35]I was so >> Some of the causes you're so engaging pastor white um experience.

[00:17:46]>> Yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:17:49]Trained to listen so well. What are some of the causes or contributing factors to depression? causes infection. Okay. So, some of it might be hormonal. Like we know that when women, for example, when we're going through menopause, some women might get depressed because the body's readjusting to hormones and things of that nature, right? Um, also, a change in routine could cause depression, right?

[00:18:19]um intergenerational struggles could create ongoing depression that we might not even be aware of like oh okay so intergenerational we might refer to them as intergenerational curses but it's really just stuff that's coming down from generation to generation uh behaviors that don't really serve us well behaviors that don't allow us to engage with the world and people in the best possible way the most godly probably, right? So that's what that is.

[00:18:51]And so if particular behaviors are coming down a generation, it might be causing generations of people to be depressed from the same route, but we're not aware of it. And this could be based on parenting. Um, I think we're moving away from like corporate punish punishment and stuff like that in the Caribbean, but back in the day where punishment was you had to go get your own switch. Um, or you had to kneel on rice and things of that nature. These things create patterns of behavior that create depression in people along the way because this is what we've learned and I'm turning it on. I'm passing it on to my children in parenting them a particular way. And it doesn't get broken until someone changes the behavior, until there's an intervention.

[00:19:35]Right? A change in routine could cause depression. Little children get depressed as well, which is why we have to inform them of changes, big changes that are coming. If they're going to school, they might get depressed. Um, so we have to prepare them for these things. So the anything basically can result in depression. And sometimes depression is also following things like anxiety or if a person has mania or stuff like that, they might feel like really high and then feel very very low.

[00:20:02]So like Sister White says, it's all about getting to know yourself and your habits and your routine and also knowing a little bit about your history as well.

[00:20:10]>> All right. So you mentioned I I'll make two further points to that. One, you made reference to to to persons kneeling on rice. I'm I'm saying that's a it's a very unique way of discipline. Um >> those knees will not be too strong in the future.

[00:20:28]That's one. Um secondly for the younger persons though I know for them I think depression cuz I know P mentioned about loss. So I think that was separation really. But I think between loss um going even further back looking at education failing an exam or what about if a parent is pushing a child in a certain direction right I want you to become this under pressure I don't know if they can handle it >> and maybe lastly the the I guess the thought or the experience of having heartbreak I just want to get your thoughts on those aspects you can take anyone you want to speak about. Maybe you can take two pastor white sister you can take two.

[00:21:19][snorts] >> I want to follow up here discussions happening here. I want to follow up here on what um Eony shared here because I I remember there was a I have a friend who was going through a very difficult period and somebody said I'm using the word that you said and we very cautious in using it. I'm just using it for the example. Somebody say, "Oh, well, her auntie was crazy." So, it's in their family, right? That kind of stigma that comes with something in your family. And it goes back to knowing your family history because though it's the statement is very problematic. And in 2026, who makes a statement like this really, at the same time, we're saying that it's within the family. You should know your family history. So you don't know, you do not only want to know who has diabetes, who has breast cancer in your family. You want to know who has mental and mental illness. That's not an issue. That's something for you to shy away from and something for you to keep take into consideration. So sometimes we make statements in our Caribbean culture which are problematic, but behind it there's some level of truth behind some of the things that that are said. That's what I wanted to say.

[00:22:30]Mhm. There is uh uh uh there is an approach I don't know what the word that is that I'm looking for but there's a thing called a genog and a genog is like a family tree except that it tracks like mental illnesses and diseases and how relationship what relationships look like within a generation of a family. So instead of being like just mom and dad, it'll be like mom and dad, but maybe they're divorced. And you'll put that and then maybe you'll look down the line of the family tree and you're realizing that, oh wow, like most of the people in this family are divorced. But we wouldn't see that sometimes just by daily, you know, just going through life. But if we see it in a picture, so that is something that we can do. We can make this picture for ourselves and go back and see, oh wow, like auntie so and so behaves this way or I have this particular behavior.

[00:23:25]Maybe it comes from here. Let me go see and find out what happened to my great great grandmother that caused this behavior to start in the first place.

[00:23:34]>> What age sister is your age for depression? Cuz you know I'm going to tell you something that we like to say um people like to especially parents.

[00:23:43]Oh, maybe you start work yet. You know, you're still in secondary school and stuff. Some people just you don't have no children. You stress about where? But I want to know, does depression have an age? You have to be what, 20, 25, 31, 43 to start going through depression? Your thoughts on that?

[00:24:01]>> No, I don't think depression has an age.

[00:24:04]I think it can show up in anyone. I heard someone speaking a couple months ago and they said that they spoke to a professional and the professional said that they were probably experiencing some type of trauma before birth.

[00:24:23]So now this baby is born. Can this baby be depressed because the baby was traumatized in the womb in the womb some way somehow perhaps but babies can't speak so maybe we don't know. maybe from a brain scan. Five year olds, pretty sure they get depressed. There's a lot going on. First grade is happening and stuff like that. They just might not have the words to explain how they're feeling, >> right? But then I guess even by signs as you would have mentioned earlier, maybe you might just see them crying because other than at school, they can be facing other things home. Maybe a parent with multiple children and you see the little person there as you say maybe going to isolation, maybe crying maybe at school or other environments. So a particular behavior and then again we just un lose things the child just rude >> not realizing right it could be that they heading to a state or have some level of depression for sure as well.

[00:25:20][snorts] >> Yeah. Yeah. I'm sorry. Go ahead sister white.

[00:25:23]>> No no like you.

[00:25:27]>> Um, I'm sorry.

[00:25:28]>> Can you hear me?

[00:25:30]>> Go ahead.

[00:25:30]>> Yes, we can hear you. Yes. Go right ahead.

[00:25:33]>> Yes. Sorry, I wanted to add you. We did and I want to follow up on the point E is making here because within our Caribbean culture, we do some strange things and sometimes as parents, we care too much about what other people think.

[00:25:46]Uh, there was a time when if a child had a learning disability, you know, nobody wants to admit the child has a learning disability. They still want to send the child to the school with all the children who don't have learning disability. Just acknowledge your child has a disability, a learning disability. I'm hoping I'm using the right terminology for that.

[00:26:04]And that child has to be put into a special school. No, nothing wrong with my child. My child is an intelligent child. Just this denial factor. Same thing with with depression. Tend to the parents say, "What you have to stress about that you depressed? You all watching too much thing on TVs or too much thing you all watching. You all talking about depression. Shake out of that. It has a lot to do with the parent trying to appease the neighbor and they don't want the neighbor to hear the child depressed and the perception of we have to care about our children enough that even if the child is seven, eight, nine and the child is showing signs of depression that you get help for your child. You cannot consider societal expectation and norms. Your child has to be significant enough and if the child is showing signs that he or she is a little bit slow in certain areas that you need to seek their help. But within our Caribbean c culture and context, we care so much about what people think and the stigma which surrounds certain types of behavior. We take that into consideration and we and the welfare of our children. And that's number one priority.

[00:27:08]The the treatment and the care that we deserve, we don't get it because it's being masked under other things and it's being looked at in a particular way that doesn't serve us at all. Um, but I was also going to add to Orin's point about what's happening in the home. Yeah. If a child is facing neglect, um, if a child has needs that are not met, they're not eating on time, if they're being yelled at a lot, if they're being abused, if they're not getting attention, might not be getting abused, but maybe they're not getting the attention that they need in the home, that could cause low moods and depression in children and affects them for life possibly if it's not addressed.

[00:27:49]Right. And and and that's one of the points I think that should be very you know repeated a lot because it starts somewhere and as you said now it can affect you without even I guess even with health it will still affect you until you die. So I mean that happened with you at five six seven >> right 40 50 60 years in your life it's still affecting you really. So I'm happy that you say that as well. Um sister sister Ebony now as we continue the question is now do do Christians or can Christians experience depression you know generally even sometimes somebody's hungry they say pray to pray to God you know I pray for you I will pray for you um and Christians experience depression >> and additionally why is it sometimes misunderstood in the church but what I'll say this as well too while you while you answer is throughout the year I know sometimes as you know Dr. provide this part of the conference as well when they send out the activities and anything for the even for the last 5 years I won't go beyond that there's not a particular even day or days that is attributed to this you know why is the church not addressing depression knowing how prevalent it is number one and some things that can happen because as you mentioned in your your opening statement I think um sister Ebony that depression can lead to suicidal thoughts, >> right? So, I'll start with you. Um, Dr. White, you know, why you think can Christians experience depression and why you think sometimes it's misunderstood by the church and why you think that we're not doing enough to address it as well?

[00:29:32]>> Yeah, definitely Christians do experience the the depression. I think within the church, we still have this the stigma and I would look at it from two angles.

[00:29:43]One would be lack of faith and relationship with God. I mean at the time I was most depressed in my experience when my twin sister and I separated. I was a pastor. I was a ministerial intern. I just committed to ministry. So someone says but she's a pastor. She's a woman of God. She she not supposed to take on the the separation for her sister. It's not a big thing that has happened to her.

[00:30:05]She's a woman. She's reading the Bible.

[00:30:07]She should she should know how to read a passage and bounce back. Right? So there's this level of stigma in the church that you may be losing your faith. And what I find most problematic um Orin and Ebony about a depression and and the context of the church is how people perceive you your ability to lead.

[00:30:26]So Ebony is leading the Sabbath school.

[00:30:28]She's the superintendent. Pastor White is an elder and Orin is the maybe the pastor of the church. And you know, one of the three of us end up in a little situation and say, "Oh, well, she can't lead anymore because she depressed and she got mental issues." All of a sudden, right, because you may have a moment of depression, people think you're disqualified to lead. People think you're not qualified any longer. So that's why people mask it. You hide it because the moment you look like you're frail mentally, then people disregard your ability to do anything. And so I prefer to just be in the silence because I'm going to lose my job because my boss is going to say but she not mentally stable. He not mentally stable. The people in the churches say no you can't give him first elder because he got a mental issue. Right? So so that is that kind of stigma and the way we we somehow allow people to feel less than because they have a moment of depression allows people to stay in their pain because we're very insensitive even in the the church. But I will stop there and let the train person speak.

[00:31:32]H go right there.

[00:31:37]>> Yes.

[00:31:40]So when it comes to Yes, Christians can be depressed. I've been depressed in my life. I don't think I'm depressed today, but I'm feeling a little low today because I'm dealing with something. Um, so yes, Christians can be depressed, but it has nothing and being depressed has nothing to do with your ability to serve and it has nothing to do with your calling. You can be depressed and very much on fire for God and very much being in your purpose. One has nothing to do with the other. Sometimes I wonder outside of the stigma um and cultural um cultural stigmas um around mental health. I'm wondering if some of this stuff is yet another way for the church to create a hierarchy or to maintain hierarchy that now I've labeled you as inadequate. I've labeled you as incompetent because you have this mental illness and so now I feel so much better. But that's not Christlike, right? Just because you have depression or any mental illness, you could be bipolar and still and still be the superintendent.

[00:32:50]Oh, I thought you was going to say more to that, right? I agree that as well.

[00:32:54]Um, and as you said, it's not about being inadequate in any way because experiencing something and um, I think as we're going to learn now because one of the the amazing things as I said when we're doing this and preparing this is that, you know, other than just looking at our life situation or speaking about somebody else's life situation. Now when we go to the Bible was their presence in the Bible who experienced depression right and I think that's where you know I think maybe one of the things as well did Christ himself experience now you understand the definition of depression did Christ himself experience depression but I know I did um ask the two of you to look at two specific persons as well as it relates to depression in the Bible and if you can share that with us now and what you what lessons we can actually learn from them as well. So I I'll start with you sister and then I'll hear from from pastor wife.

[00:33:51]>> Okay. So you asked me to focus specifically on Jeremiah and so I created a whole deck. It's called tears and temple tantrums. And I really enjoyed learning about Jeremiah because I didn't realize that when Jeremiah started out that he was actually a young adult. To your question, what is there an age on depression? He was a young adult. He was a young man and he dealt with this for all of these decades all the way up until he was an adult and saw like three kings take over the throne and he was still dealing with all of this ridicule and persecution and maybe sometimes even feeling confused, feeling betrayed at times and so he was going through quite a bit.

[00:34:44]So what was the other part of the question? I'm sorry.

[00:34:48]How did he cope with it? What did he did he die in prison? What happened? Did he What did he do?

[00:34:53]>> So, as I was doing my research, this made me so happy like researching this.

[00:34:58]Um, I learned that Jeremiah um the church accepts that he is possibly the author of Lamentations. And one of the things that he did was he wrote about all of the things that he was going through, all the things that he was feeling, and most importantly, how God showed up for him. And it is in Lamentations that we get that favorite verse that we love. God's mercies are new every morning which gives Jeremiah something to look forward to. And that is the thing when it comes with deep depression and people who are dealing with suicidal thoughts and things of that nature. Um also a suicidal thought is not a plan to execute. A thought is just a thought, right? But when we have something to look forward to, it gives us hope and energy to move forward to keep going. Also, when we reflect back on how God has shown up for us, um it gives us it it reinforces that God is always going to be there. Like look at how he showed up last week, last month, last year in CO. It gives us hope that things are going to get better. If not here, then later on it's going to change at some point. also with lamentations. I think one of my big takeaways from this is that it is okay to express and also through Jeremiah it is okay to express that things I don't like the way things are right now. I don't like that this thing is happening and this looks unfair. It looks like injustice and still be very much grateful for what God has done and what he will do.

[00:36:30]Right.

[00:36:30]>> Thank you. you wanted to say additional but you know it's a it's a it's a good thing you raise that specific out of lamentations because I think that's like a big line you can take for sure one of you know out of the Bible especially if you are going through something you know that just say better days are ahead but knowing for sure every morning the mercies of God >> are there and in you every not just a particular day not just a particular month a particular year but every single morning no matter what you're facing or dealing with.

[00:37:02]>> Yes.

[00:37:02]>> Um, so thank you so much for that as well, Pastor White.

[00:37:07]>> Yes, Ebony sounds like a preacher there.

[00:37:09]You know, she's ready to preach that sermon. Thank you so much. That was so deep. Thank you. What's Well, I want to speak to Elijah because this is such an interesting story of a man who's running from a woman. And you know, sometimes, you know, Jezebel is a wicked person.

[00:37:25]So, he's running from this woman and he sits under a tree and he says, "Lord, I don't want to live. Take my life. Take my life. And the Bible says he falls asleep. And the Lord says, "Get up and eat. Get up and eat something." He gets up. He eats. He falls back asleep again.

[00:37:40]The Lord says the angel, "Wake him up.

[00:37:42]Get up. Get up." And he's hiding. He's hiding in a cave. And God says, "But what you doing there in that cave? Why are you hiding in that cave?" And the spir, the Bible says that the Lord came and spoke to him uh through a a small voice that we love to hear. But but what what's the the lesson for me? One, spiritual persons mercy. Somebody's going to get annoyed with the preacher for saying this now. Spiritual persons like Elijah can have suicidal thought. Elijah said, "I don't want to live." This is a man who called on fire from heaven on Mount Carmel a chapter before this chap and he says, "I don't want to live." But God says, "Rest." I know we not getting into the solutions yet. God said, "Rest. get up and eat something. He gave him something to eat. And but what I like the most and I'm going to close on this is when God says to Elijah, "What are you doing here?" In other words, get a reality check. You you really reached a point. You've reached a low low point.

[00:38:45]And in order for us to receive treatment for anything, we cannot be in denial.

[00:38:50]Some of us like to think we the most mentally stable people on the planet.

[00:38:54]And sometimes the people who think they're the most mentally stablest people on the planet with the most mental issues. If you can think in your mind, I am not as I want to be mentally stable as I want to be, then you can get help, whether it's clinical, whether it's just a counselor you need to visit to have a conversation, but unless we get to the reality check where God said to Elijah, look, what are you doing here? In other words, look at yourself.

[00:39:20]Check yourself before you wreck yourself because that's what's going to happen to you if you don't come out of that cave.

[00:39:25]And that's what's happening to some some of us. We do not want to admit that we have mental trauma. I'm the well I'm going to stop right there.

[00:39:36]>> Thanks for that pastor White. I will further now our minds even further as um just to share a little bit of thoughts pertaining to Job, right? Um while we won't go into Job's story because I think it's a familiar enough story that all of us know one particular thing about Job for sure is that he lost everything >> right now that we can read and look back at the story that it was Satan trying to push God to say listen he you know you can't find anyone or whatnot but Job lost everything possible that's that's anything in our life that we think about that we have now particularly on the material level >> lost all of it literally all and he still held fast to God. Sometimes I know some persons will have their homes stripped away by a storm or they lost all their positions through fire. What are you have to ask? Cuz I know it's not an easy thing and I know what Job was going through could not have been easy but Job held fast as we we we read throughout his whole the whole book of Job. But what are your thoughts? For sure. I know Joe had a little per of depression in between them and must have felt something to see everything that you had worked so hard for was being stripped away, stripped away till they had nothing. So what are your thoughts even for persons who lose things especially to fires or otherwise >> but your your guiding thoughts on that?

[00:41:02]How do you think you know cuz it's can't be an easy thing at all. Sister Evan here from passed away.

[00:41:11]So, yes, I've lost a lot in the fires, the the figurative fires. How did I get through this?

[00:41:19]Community help me to get through this. And I think that's important when we're dealing with um heavy things, when we're dealing with loss, whatever the loss may be, that we have a community that is going to help us carry the burden, whether the community is church or friends and family, but someone has to be there. We cannot go through loss alone.

[00:41:43]I know that a lot of the times we're forced to do that sometimes, but it is not the best way to go through loss. Um, we need community. Also, Jesus.

[00:41:54]At one point I lost something and not someone but something and it sent me into a deep depression and I had to figure out how am I going to get out of bed today? I have to go to work. How am I going to function?

[00:42:13]And one of the ways that helped me to function was getting a sticky pad with Bible notes. they came readymade and I would wake up in the morning, take off a sticky note, read it and stuck it to the wall and that was what got me out of bed dayto day. So I think community Christ and speaking to a mental health professional and just a note on that, you don't have to be in the depths of depression to speak to someone. You don't even have to speak to a mental health professional or a counselor. Um if you if if if maybe nothing is happening in your life and you could still speak to someone, >> right? You don't have to be sad and depressed.

[00:42:53]>> All right. Thanks for that.

[00:42:56]>> Okay. Pastor White thought there. Yeah, I agree with um what um the counselor said here in relation to community, having people around you because when you're going through a depression and you have people around you who are not going to support you, it can become frustrating. Job said to the wife, I'm not going to call you foolish, but I am saying to you, you sound like the women who are foolish. I mean, Job said that to the wife out of frustration, right? Sometimes the frustration make you say things to people you would normally say, right? So Job said to the wife, "Look, I don't I want to be respectful here, but you're really frustrating me." And there people really frustrate you. They can get to the point of depression. But one thing I love about Job, going back to um what Ebony shared about being able to find hope, he said, "Though you slay me, yet will I trust you." And that's the same point that Ebony raised here that she has the sticky note of words of encouragement. So that's what Job is saying. I'm not happy about my situation, but I'm trusting you. I am trusting you. So that sticky note with that word is what I'm going to use that's going to get me out of bed. So I love that analogy that she gave there.

[00:44:07]Though you slay me, I'm going to trust you. That's Job's mindset because he has something he's going to hold on to. He didn't have community cuz the friends came and they they they were not very supportive. The wife had her issues with all that he's going through. He has no support. But he says, "Lord, do you slay me? I'm going to have to trust you.

[00:44:26]>> Amen. Amen. Thank you for that pastor White. Now, specifically to our church now, congregation members, how should you respond to someone dealing with depression and I mentioned earlier some pray for them, right? You person by yourself and you in your praying for them. Um, is that the best approach? What are your thoughts on that? How should the church, how should members respond to someone dealing with depression, >> pastor, you can start and I'll hear from go right ahead.

[00:45:02]>> Right. As an Adventist pastor, I guess you want me to go first instead of the counselor here. It is how we should respond and not how we respond.

[00:45:12]You know, it is so sad when we consider sometimes how insensitive people can be.

[00:45:17]Uh I know of a case of a young lady who had a a recent mental issue, a little depression and it, you know, took it to the point where she needed to have maybe clinical intervention.

[00:45:31]It's like, oh, you don't hear what happened to such and such or the boyfriend left her now she gone. Right?

[00:45:39]I mean, that is how we operate sometimes as a church. I believe within the 7th Adventist church however when I speak um generally we are attempting to remove the stigma um through education. So I'm not going to say that there's no hope in the context of the church. I believe a lot of material is being produced now from the Adventist church on depression on the stigma but is it translating to the average member when he or she hears about a person in the local church? I don't think it is because there's still this strong stigma. But how should we?

[00:46:16]Let me look at how should we and I think everybody answered it already that we need support. We need to be there. We need to bring that level of encouragement. We need to be right there and sit like Job friends came. They were not the best friends but at least they sat and they listened to his his long situation. Some of us are not even willing to listen. We prefer to go on the phone to call people and to talk about the individual instead of going to resolve. That's why I love the text that says in the Bible that if you see the brother is in a situation and you go that you can even help them without it going to the church and without it going to the board and without it going to the business meeting. But some of us like drama and confusion. So the moment you get you get news of something, you're not going to go by the sister privately and see what you can if you have a trained counselor who can help the sister. You want the whole world to know that the sister is going through it. And that's why people in the church will not tell people their business. So if I get a broken heart as a 7day Adventist pastor, you think I'm going to announce I'm going to tell anybody in the church that a young man I am dating has left me for everybody to look at me funny and start to No, I'm not going to say anything. I am going to live with my pain. But that should not be the reality. I should be able to come to a community who cares and be appealing to our community, a Christian Adventist community this afternoon in this program. Please let us show the love. We talk a lot about the disciplehip small groups. It is within those groups that love should be extended. That community that the counselor spoke about that's what that's what it should be.

[00:47:52]One additional thing to you pastor white baby on what you said because I know it comes up a lot person we mention about approach because sometimes you don't even speak to the person for 3 4 5 6 7 months in a church now maybe afternoon good but the person end up like this and then you're going to them now pass away the joke man boy left you and you want depress that man that remember is not a person that you have been you know in relation for a long time and you speak that way now right you just heard about the situation you might just say by virtue of my office [snorts] in the church I am maybe the I guess service school superintendent or woman's ministry leader and somebody say you're going to have to go and look for and you're just going to go just because of by by virtue of the position and then you're going to show up and you might say some loose things right that because maybe as well that has trained cuz that can be the other thing. So some persons have positions in the church they elected to serve but by virtue they did not receive adequate training for to handle certain things. But what are your thoughts on my mind is going to say something you know even innocently no but because of the lack of training just by saying it how you approach the person could cause the person even to go even to even a further or should I say deeper state of depression. your thoughts >> and Orin it's it's our motives there because I see Ebony all the time I don't say anything to her should but the moment somebody says oh Ebony is you know hear this about Ebony all of a sudden I want to be her friend sometimes the motive behind it is wrong you just want to get her business all the time you you see her in church you never say anything but somebody says she depressed oh you sending a message be strong in the Lord and in the power of his might is just a guys the text is a guys because you want to that story and that is where we have the problem. I'm going to stop there and let the counselor continue.

[00:49:57]>> Go right ahead.

[00:49:58]>> I'm in the same boat both with Sister White because what we need to do is build authentic connections and also do we need training to be empathetic and compassionate? Isn't that what God is all about? Isn't that what Jesus is all about? Do we need training for that?

[00:50:17]Right? That should be something that we're trying to develop naturally. Um, also people need to shut up and hold things as confidential and figure out with the person how are we going to address this? Do you want me to get another person involved? Do you want me to connect you with mental health professionals? Do you want me to try to figure out what your needs are? Also, the idea of, "Oh my goodness, I'm feeling so low," or, you know, all of this type of performance keeps us masking all the time and plunges us deeper into depression.

[00:50:57]So, we need to learn how to build authentic connections and we need how to hold things in confidentiality so that people can feel more empowered and vulnerable around us and calm and speak when things might not be going too too well for them.

[00:51:17]So, good stuff. Good stuff. Good stuff.

[00:51:19]And you know the part about being quiet, I think some persons have a real challenge in doing that. Um I know you say that person's been at the training but um to remain quiet in certain things is a very hard thing for them to do and they look at Christ they're going to say but Christ was talking all the time he was not quiet so to be said on certain things some persons are going to struggle with that recommendation for sure but it's very wise for some persons to do um clearly because they don't have the tact or as you said we should be like Christ maybe the relationship with Christ is not what it should be so they're not connected to Christ and now they can't be connected in any way >> or person to deal with that as well.

[00:52:00]>> Can I add something else as well real quick?

[00:52:05]>> The idea of also you know people being vulnerable with us and then the response is that I'm going to pray for you or you know something very very shallow. It is also off-putting and it might anger a person because what people need is real help and a a connection that wow you're really feeling this thing that I'm saying to you. It it's really important to you and when we do that and you know what you know tell the truth and shame the devil. Sometimes I do I say and I've said it in the past I pray for you and then I forget what people want is their need to be met. We have to learn how to meet people's needs. And that's what Jesus did. He addressed the need and then he prayed >> need to >> hope that the need is met.

[00:52:52]>> Right. Right.

[00:52:55]>> And that's what Ebony shared here. You know, sometimes we're so dismissive because we're so self absorbed.

[00:53:01]>> All right. So Ebony comes to me and she starts to give her story. I'm not really interested in hearing it, you know.

[00:53:07]>> So I'm just saying, okay, okay, I'm going to pray for you. God is going to work it out. Why you stressing about that? because I don't have time to invest in that. It takes a lot of time.

[00:53:17]It takes a lot of sacrifice to invest in people's challenges and issues. And that's why sometimes we prefer to go and give a track.

[00:53:26]>> I put it in your hand. But the moment you now start a conversation, oh my my husband this and that, you say, "No, no, that's too much. I don't have time for this. I don't want to be invested in this. This is too much."

[00:53:37]>> That is the challenge we have. We don't want to go deep into people's life because we don't have interest. We don't have genuine interest for people. And that's why it's so problematic to go into their life because we're so self-absorbed. If the conversation is not about me, then I'm not interested in the conversation. And that's what's happening sometimes in the church. But in order for us to really be caring, we have to remove ourselves from the picture and be able to listen to the other person. But listening is not becoming a part of the culture within the Adventist church now. But we have to get to the point where I care about you enough. You have to listen for one hour and put on my phone and spend that time.

[00:54:19]You see the genuine the authentic relationships that um Ebony spoke about.

[00:54:23]That's what we need. Authentic relationships what we need in the context of the church.

[00:54:29]>> Correct. Amen. Amen. So finally let's just look at and the relationship part maybe is even part of the answer. I heard you all mention a few things earlier that you know I think you couldn't get away from making the the recommendations of what we need to do to cope with and also to treat depression.

[00:54:47]So I'm going to ask you now to just share to our listeners now what are some of the the healthy ways some of the Christ centered ways as well to cope with and also to treat depression. So pastor, I'll start with you and then I know for sure sister Ebony is going to say you know um about the counseling.

[00:55:05]Don't run away from me to talk. Yes, but pastor go right ahead.

[00:55:08]>> Yes. I look from the spiritual end we have a holistic message. Um at 7 Adventist we speak about the the health message is the right arm of the gospel.

[00:55:17]Right. And that is true. We have a powerful health message and we have to emphasize this. The importance of prayer, the importance of meditation, the importance of rest. we call it the new start. Um that that that is critical because if I'm already depressed and stressed and I can't sleep, then it's going to make it it's going to worsen the situation. If I'm already depressed and discouraged and I'm not eating, it's going to affect my body. So I would say the new start approach, the holistic approach to um to lifestyle that we endorse as a 7day Adventist church, we need to encourage our members. I love the point Ebony raised earlier about don't wait until you have depression or mental issue to seek help. So don't wait until you're going through a period of depression to all of a sudden say, "Well, I'm ready to embrace the new start diet, the new start lifestyle."

[00:56:06]No. Every single day, rest, every single day, eating on time, eating what is right, exercise, sunlight, make that a part of your life. So when when the stresses come, when the heartbreak comes, which may be inevitable, when the losses come, which is a part of experience, you're better equipped to cope. So the coping mechanism you need now, you have to invest in it today so that when the future comes, you're able to cope.

[00:56:34]>> And is yes. So yes, so sister White mentioned some of the things that we can do. Um Elijah did these things. Have a snack.

[00:56:45]Take a nap. Take a bath. Take a walk.

[00:56:48]Basic, right? Routine hygiene makes you feel a little better. You nourish yourself. You take care of your hygiene and you take a walk. Movement helps us to change the chemistry that is going through our system and it helps us to feel better. It gives us a dopamine rush. Now, if you're feeling like you cannot do these things, yes, speak to a mental health professional. Don't be afraid to do that. And I will say God God encourages and supports therapy. There is a verse in the Bible that talks about think about things that are of good report. Think about these things because God knows that the brain he created us, the brain is skewed to negative thoughts because those are the things that the brain has to protect us from. So we have to give the brain the opposite of that so that the brain has a full story of what's happening, right?

[00:57:40]so we can be more balanced, right? Also, um think about God's faithfulness. Um Jeremiah did that a lot. Uh repent.

[00:57:48]Repentance could be a part of our journey. Writing and journal. Again, Jeremiah did that a lot. Um and acknowledge God's role in your life. How is God showing up for you even when we don't deserve it?

[00:58:01]>> Amen. Thank you so much for that, sister. As well, Pastor White. Thank you so much for sharing the new start. Um I think that goes into every every time there's a challenge with the body. I think the new start is an assist in some way for sure. Um so that's it for this afternoon. I thank you both ladies for your let's say expert advice in in one way shape or form both on the clinical side on the spiritual side as well. And both of them are very important to keep us in a balanced way for sure. And I hope our viewership, our members as well learned some things today as well, how to not only deal with their own personal depression, but if they see someone going into depression, what they should do as well.

[00:58:46]>> Pastor, I'm going to ask just to close us off with a word of prayer as well to close this session as well.

[00:58:53]>> Let's go ahead as we pray. Father, thank you for loving us with an everlasting love. Thank you for hope which comes in your word. You've said you said to Joshua, be strong and of good courage. I pray that every single day those who are listening on the platform will be strong and of good courage. I pray that Ebony and Orin will also continue to be strong and of good courage. And as we separate, we pray that the Holy Spirit will continue to direct us in Jesus name.

[00:59:18]Amen.

[00:59:20]>> Amen. Thank you so much for that, Pastor White. Thank you so much listeners for being with us. Um, next week be with us the same time, the same place. We're going to be looking a bit about music.

[00:59:30]What type of music can you actually listen to is listening secular music wrong? Because if you're going to do exercise or at your home doing a little jamming, can you listen a little, you know, uptempo beat? Can you listen a little, you know, where is listening to Bob Mali in itself wrong all together?

[00:59:48]Join us next week as we have that discussion. get some wisdom in your selecting your your your music and thank you so much for being with us on another session of faith unfiltered. Until we meet again, God bless.

[01:00:09][music] Heat. Heat. N.

[01:00:40]>> [music] >> Heat