Why Communion Should be Open to Everyone

[00:00:11]Welcome to Fox always package. Your best guest Mike is Seth Erie.

[00:00:16]>> Yeah, Seth Eerie. Good morning, Seth Erie.

[00:00:18]>> Morning.

[00:00:18]>> How are you? You sound a little sick.

[00:00:20]>> Good. Oh, yeah.

[00:00:21]>> How are you feeling today?

[00:00:22]>> Small.

[00:00:23]>> Small sick.

[00:00:23]>> Small sick.

[00:00:24]>> Yeah. If you're looking at YouTube, you fingers together. Just a small sick.

[00:00:28]Notick. Not a big sick.

[00:00:29]>> Small.

[00:00:30]>> Small sick.

[00:00:31]>> Small sick.

[00:00:31]>> Better. Yeah. Not really sick. Nope.

[00:00:33]>> Just tiny bit of sick.

[00:00:34]>> Yes.

[00:00:34]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You could tell in your voice, too.

[00:00:37]>> Yes.

[00:00:37]>> Yes. Where were we yesterday, son?

[00:00:40]>> Hollywood.

[00:00:40]>> Holiday World. And if you check the Instagrams, we recorded a Best Friends podcast live.

[00:00:46]>> Yes.

[00:00:46]>> From Holiday World.

[00:00:48]>> To Hollywood.

[00:00:50]>> Yes. And so we we I mean, how many roller coasters did we do? We did five.

[00:00:55]>> I was thinking >> more like Seven or eight, but I like five.

[00:01:00]>> Yep. Five.

[00:01:01]>> Five. [snorts] Okay. Where are you off to right now?

[00:01:03]>> Uh, we're going to say hi to my friend.

[00:01:06]>> Say hi to your friend Josh at Chick-fil-A.

[00:01:08]>> Yes.

[00:01:09]>> Yes. With your sweet mama.

[00:01:10]>> Yep.

[00:01:11]>> Okay. I love it, buddy.

[00:01:12]>> Y.

[00:01:13]>> All right.

[00:01:13]>> Hit him. Hit him. Seth on YouTube.

[00:01:16]>> Yep. Seth theme song YouTube channel.

[00:01:19]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:01:20]>> Always be closing. Seth Erie. Always be closing.

[00:01:23]>> And he always is.

[00:01:24]>> And he always is. I don't know where he got the memo. He totally did, man. We could learn we could learn something from him. Always be closing. Um, speaking of closing, I just want to say thank you to all the folks supporting us on Patreon and Tidly. Boom. We're not closing because of you. Um, we're staying open and it's glorious. Uh, Tim, how are you today? I just need to know.

[00:01:50]>> I'm doing I'm doing well.

[00:01:51]>> You're doing good. Perfect.

[00:01:54]>> I'm fried. I was just telling my wife, um, we were working outside yesterday.

[00:01:58]It was very hot and I was hosing down some dirt on the sidewalk and the mailman came by and I just had a weird like more middle-aged moment where I made some like, >> "Are you hot?" Like with the hose [laughter] and he's like, "Nah, I'm good." And I heard it come out of my mouth as like an out out of body experience. And I was like, "What? What am I doing?" Then he came back around cuz it was a culde-sac. I was like, "Uh, do you want like a cold sparkling water?" [laughter] He's like, "No, man.

[00:02:28]I'm good."

[00:02:29]>> All right, I'm just going to go crawl in a hole.

[00:02:31]>> Hey, hey, hush.

[00:02:34]We're recording a high quality podcast around here.

[00:02:38]>> Ma Meatloaf.

[00:02:41]>> Sorry, it's a party at the Aries.

[00:02:43]>> One of my favorite. Did you not get that reference? Did you not get that movie reference? Ma Meatloaf. Wolf Arrol.

[00:02:49]>> One of the best things ever.

[00:02:51]>> Yeah. Step. Yes. Yes. Um, Timothy, first of all, we know how much you love light and heat, and so I mean, it's it's kind of amazing that you're alive today.

[00:03:03]>> And you were painting, >> not in a studio, but a house.

[00:03:07]>> Yes. [laughter] Was warm.

[00:03:11]>> Oh, you poor guy. I'll tell you the only thing that maybe is worse than painting a house uh is going to Holiday World and an just jungle of concrete and rides and it was like 90° and >> what state the Tennessee thing?

[00:03:31]>> Indiana. It's in Santa Claus, Indiana.

[00:03:33]>> You guys are all over the place.

[00:03:36]>> Seth Erie, that's the one thing he he loves roller coasters. He just wants He just loves them and just will do nothing but ride. The taller the better, the scarier the better. It doesn't matter.

[00:03:46]He just thinks >> Is he a like a screamer or a holler?

[00:03:50]Like what is his demeanor on roller coaster?

[00:03:53]>> That's a great question. If I'm with him, he is staring at me and yelling at me. Um, [laughter] and if I'm not with him, he is just yelling in general. But some what he'll do sometimes is he'll look at me to see how I'm reacting and start tickling me in during the roller coaster. And right he's looking over and smiling because he knows it's true. But he's [laughter] a he is a fiend. A fiend. Like totally totally just not at all intimidated by any of it. Um but it is pretty funny.

[00:04:25]What were we yelling? What were we yelling yesterday, Seth? Do you remember?

[00:04:29]>> Yeah. Yeah. During the when the on the roller coasters, what were we yelling? I don't remember.

[00:04:35]>> Dad, >> what?

[00:04:38]>> Huh?

[00:04:38]>> What were we yelling in the roller coasters? Do you remember?

[00:04:41]>> Um, yes.

[00:04:43]>> Okay. What was it?

[00:04:44]>> It's said I was young.

[00:04:49]>> You were yelling at me?

[00:04:51]>> Yes.

[00:04:51]>> Yeah. Yeah. That was a That was a very >> thrilling interview right there.

[00:04:56][snorts] >> Pants. Who was cranky pants this morning?

[00:05:00]>> Seth.

[00:05:01]>> Seth was.

[00:05:02]>> Well, that's cuz you're a little sick.

[00:05:03][laughter] >> Yes.

[00:05:04]>> Just a little sick. Not a lot sick. Just a little sick.

[00:05:08]>> Cranky pants. Um, you know what's making me cranky?

[00:05:13]>> The fact that the dumbest, ridiculous 10-year run of politics in the history of the planet was enabled by Christians.

[00:05:25]And um, >> endorsed. I've just >> encouraged.

[00:05:30]>> Yeah.

[00:05:30]>> Look at that. That was a sermon. Three E.

[00:05:32]>> Wow. Yeah. I don't even I It's like I don't even have the energy to muster up just the recounting of all the dumbness.

[00:05:39]Although, I learned that dumb has a B in it, which is a very important point.

[00:05:43][laughter] So, I thought that was really, really helpful and insightful.

[00:05:50]>> Thick.

[00:05:50]>> So, I just I have no nothing to say about contemporary anything. I'm just tired and it's hot and Tim painted a house yesterday. So, let's talk about communion. You want to [laughter] because this is a great >> How was that for segways?

[00:06:09]>> Oh, boy. Well, it's a great example of how something centered uh becomes something bounded. It's a great example of this.

[00:06:18]>> And so, we're we're going to talk this episode. Maybe we'll get through. We never know. Tim Stafford, you never know what's going to come out. and which direction we're going to go. So >> falafel >> falafel uh so we'll see uh how much we get through but I think it's a very important conversation particularly because some of our Patreon folks asked for it um and you've asked for it before and you know what I mean the kingdom of God needs us so giddy up here we go >> giddy up >> um one of the things that uh the Bible does um our English Bibles do is they introduce paragraph breaks and chapter headings and verse numbers and all that is really it's actually super helpful to reference but it's really disruptive in flows of thought and so often what happens is that we read Bible the Bible in McNuggets and so here's a de avotional for a verse of the day >> and there you go nothing more American than a Bible a biblical McNugget.

[00:07:23]>> Yes. Yes. Exactly right. I mean, it's just here's my motivational verse for the day. I can do all things through him who takes a verse out of context, you know, as as we've joked many times. And communion is one of the examples of where we take a couple of verses and rip them out of their context and turn them into something that they don't at all mean. So, we're going to go tediously through 1 Corinthians, a section of 1 Corinthians 11. Bless you. Bless you.

[00:07:50]We're recording a high quality podcast.

[00:07:54]>> [laughter] >> Mom, meet me low.

[00:08:00]Um, [laughter] >> did we just become best friends?

[00:08:04]>> Yes. Oh, we could do all sorts of activities. [laughter] >> Sadi, >> we don't need your fake laugh right now.

[00:08:13]>> Um, sorry. Things are We're We're heading We're heading to Florida.

[00:08:17]Nothing like Florida in July as a nice family vacation. Yeah, I know. It's great. Anyway, I want to start out by respecting all of the various traditions, convictions, theologies around the topic of communion. And um I recognize loads of church history, loads of scholarship and loads of you know practice and benefit and participation really diverge um over this topic. You know, is Christ how is Christ present in the elements? How is he present in the elements? To what degree is he present in the elements? All those sorts of things are uh very worthy of consideration and serious discussion. Um so I I want to honor all of that. The what I want to go after is something in my own tradition which reads a couple of verses and and it makes it sound like you've got to get cleaned up before you come to the Lord's table.

[00:09:17]In fact, I had a pastor at a church I was um I was at say that you just have to get cleaned up before you come to the table. And I want to go after that. All the other big questions, hey, let's let those sit for a second. And I want to be really respectful because people have very strong feelings about communion.

[00:09:34]Fantastic. So, I'm just going after this bit of how I was raised where, you know, if I if I sinned, and again, I mean, I'm not a big sinner. I mean, I'm a large sinner, but I'm not a sinner who sins big. [laughter] You know what I mean? I mean, I like to keep my sins personal and private. Thank you very much.

[00:09:52]>> But if I were sitting on a Sunday and we were doing communion and, you know, I could think of something yesterday that I did that I shouldn't have done, I wouldn't take it because that was the that was the deal. You should have confessed all of your sin, repented in all of your relationships, and uh then you can approach the table. or or sometimes people would bound it by saying, "Listen, you need to be a baptized believer and being baptized means in our church this way, you know, so on so and so on."

[00:10:19]>> So, um or a member of good standing in our church, you know, so you're somebody that gives, somebody that participates.

[00:10:25]So, you can bound it a whole bunch of different ways. Um I want to go through the the texts that are used and read them in context to sort of come up with that bounding. And Tim Stafford as always will interject thoughts, questions. I had a dream last night where I was jealous of you. I just thought of this where I was jealous of you because you were going to do a podcast with Matt Damon and Ben Affleck discussing literature [laughter] >> and I remember thinking, man, >> that wildly specific >> so much for the Voxology podcast. I remember think [clears throat] I remember grieving that. Like >> that's funny cuz when I was on the ladder I was listening to uh Matt Damon being interviewed by Amy Polar on her podcast and he was talking about Ben Affleck.

[00:11:11]>> Nice. See >> it's in the air.

[00:11:14]>> It's in the air. All right. So, uh 1 Corinthians 11:1 17. Um he gives them mild praise at the beginning of the chapter about some things and then then his tone changes dramatically. In the following directives, I have no praise for you. For your meetings do more harm than good. Now, that's saying something.

[00:11:37]When church actually does more harm than good. Now, the word meetings here doesn't mean church services.

[00:11:43]>> Get that out of your head. We we can't help >> uh but in America think of of gatherings and meetings as places that take place at a or as events that take place at a thing called the church.

[00:11:57]Um this is not a lurggical uh led by a pastor event at a church building. There were no separate buildings for Christian worship. And so these were homes and [snorts] uh hosts would host these dinners and it was an actual meal eaten by the community together in a private home and the elements were included as part of the meal >> uh at least initially. Now, there's evidence down the road where you would eat a common meal together and then only those baptized would celebrate the Lord's supper. But that that was instituted after persecution [snorts] um when Christians beca began to be persecuted and so they were very very they wanted to be very very clear on who was a part of this and who was not a part of this for reasons of self-preservation.

[00:12:48]Um but initially it was just a meal and you would celebrate the elements as a part of it. So he says,"I have I don't have praise for you for your meetings do more harm than good. Your private suppers, your your your dinner gatherings do more harm than good."

[00:13:04]Which is ridiculous in the first place.

[00:13:07]I hear that when you come together as a church, there are divisions. Now already it's a contradiction because coming together, that word means uh demonstrating unity as a church. But evidently there are divisions among the Corinthians during the meal. All right.

[00:13:27]So this is the the context. He said in the first place I hear that when you come together as a church there are divisions among you and to some extent I believe it. So they're eating exposes the divisions in the in the church rather than mending them >> or demonstrating oneness. So you're already you're already tipped off that this is not something that has to do with private morality. This has something to do with the social atmosphere of the church. And he's already addressed divisions twice in the letter previously. He starts out in chapter one by saying some of you just nonsense folks say I follow Cphus and others Apollos and others Christ. Was I baptized for you? Were you baptized in the name of Apollos? Come on. And then he comes back to it in chapter 3. So it's it's weighing heavily on his mind.

[00:14:16]So he gets to the Lord's supper and instantly he says, "Your meetings do more harm than good. Why? I hear that there are divisions among you in the meal that's supposed to celebrate your coming together."

[00:14:29]>> So their public whatever social whatever is happening in the social sphere is contradicting the purpose of the meal.

[00:14:35]We know that just from that sentence, right?

[00:14:39]And so um we're not surprised there are divisions. He says, "No doubt there have to be differences among you to show which of you has God's approval." And we think this is sarcasm. Like, oh, of course, of course you're going to take the thing that unites you and you're going to show it to as a as a way to divide according to superiority.

[00:15:00]>> You know what I mean? A little It feels like a little snark here. That could be debated or not. So then when you come together and this phrase come together is used five different times. So it's the whole point. It's you when you come together there are divisions but because there are divisions when you come together it is not the Lord's supper you eat for when you were eating some of you go ahead with your own private suppers as a result one person remains hungry and another gets drunk now this the phrase private suppers clues us on to what's happening here all right so uh Roman Roman dining etiquette inherited from the Greeks is all about status just the way just the way it was in in in some aspects of Judaism too.

[00:15:49]And so um in Corinth you would have houses that would have kind of an inner dining chamber and there would be a a and it and the chamber would be called a tricenium for the kind of seat. It was kind of a U-shaped seat that you would and it wasn't a table, but it was closer to the ground and you'd recline kind of on cushions next to the seat. And um it could accommodate nine guests. Um it it would be three three each along the different sections of the U-shape. All right? And the guests would be seated according to different honor. We've talked about this actually where the the the guests of honor would sit in one section of the couch and the least honorable would sit in a different section. But it could only it could only seat a very very few people and other guests would have to if you there were more than nine, you would have to sit or stand in the atrium which didn't have the cushions or the table.

[00:16:46]And you could have room there for 20 to 40 people. And so the picture is that there were some of the wealthier higher status members of the Corinthian church who were eating at the triclinium and they were eating ahead of time and they were eating the best of the food because that is the way Roman dinners worked.

[00:17:06]That was just normal. That was just etiquette.

[00:17:09]um historian named Ply describes um an an instance where um the host served three kinds of wine depending on your status at a dinner party. [snorts] Um so high status would get the best, lowest status the worst. This was just considered um normal because Roman dining ran on rank. So when Paul says first the coming together meal is exposing your divisions that's already a contradiction [snorts] and I'm not shocked that this is happening. Secondly the coming together meal is not a coming together meal which means it's not the Lord's supper because some of you celebrate your own private supper separate from the rest of the church. So some of you eat while others of you get hungry and still others of you get drunk. So they've taken Roman social hierarchy and what is normal for a nor a Roman social dinner party and just baptized it. This is now the meal of Jesus. And that's that's the dishonoring of the body and the blood that Paul's going to talk about in a second. All right, you with me so far?

[00:18:24]Yes. Uh so they just moved the seating chart. They took the status of the normal dinner party standing chart and they moved it and they mapped it on to the church and baptized that and said this is what it is to come together.

[00:18:39]Paul, now that we have that background, notice what he's upset at. Don't you have homes to have dinner parties in? Or do you despise the church of God by humiliating those who have nothing?

[00:18:53]Okay. So now this is an honor shame issue because some are being humiliated.

[00:18:58]And what are the ones being humiliated?

[00:19:00]Those who have nothing. So this is mapping along the lines of social status. The rich and wealthy, the higher status folks celebrate first and best in the tricumium while those of lower status in the church celebrate outside and last.

[00:19:18]And we know this because he keeps referencing dinner parties. Don't you have homes to do dinner parties in? What you're doing is just mapping a dinner party onto the body of Christ. The body of Christ is something entirely different. What shall I say to you?

[00:19:31]Shall I praise you? Certainly not.

[00:19:36]Now, we we now have an issue. We we have a clearer picture of what's going on, right?

[00:19:44]um the humiliation the the poorer members of the church, those who have nothing are being shamed by the richer members of the church.

[00:19:53]And so Paul doesn't deny that those people can eat and drink in their own homes together. But that's not the Lord's supper. The Lord's supper is specifically the supper that is to bring the church together, the rich and the poor.

[00:20:06]And so for Paul, this is not again, we're not in matters of social or we're not in matters of private morality. We're in matters of social morality and social practice. So he takes us back to where the meal started and he quotes the tradition, right? When he when he says passed on, that is a word that is used to describe the passing on of sacred tradition. So, so he reminds them of of what the church has has been teaching, what he's taught, and what the church, the body of Christ at large has been saying. For I received from the Lord what I passed on to you. The Lord Jesus on the night he was betrayed. So Jesus's coming together meal included a betrayer, which is always included in the communion tradition. On the night he was betrayed, >> Mhm.

[00:20:55]>> he instituted the coming together meal.

[00:20:58]Come on now. We'll get to that in a second. The Lord Jesus on the night he was betrayed took bread and when he'd given it, he broke he or gave when he'd given thanks, he broke it and said, "This is my body which is for you. Do this in remembrance of me." And this language is from the Old Testament. In the same way, after supper, he took the cup, saying, "This cup is the new covenant in my blood." That's from Jeremiah. Uh the the language from Jeremiah and language from Exodus. It's the new covenant in my blood. Do this whenever you drink it in remembrance of me. So, uh, this is pulling together language from, um, in Exodus. At the end of Exodus, there's a covenant, a blood covenant, and then Jeremiah talks about a new covenant. This is pulling that language together. And so, whatever this meal is is a looking forward to and a looking backward to what Jesus is about to do. For whenever you eat this bread and you drink this cup, you proclaim the Lord's death. You evangelize, you preach. Like taking the Lord's supper is public witness. It's public preaching that there's something different about the Christian community because Jesus has risen from the dead. And so all manners of social ordering, male, female, Jew, Greek, slave free, all of that is reconfigured now into sibling.

[00:22:11]That's what the purpose of the meals for. So he reminds them the coming together meal is a meal that brings it's it's a leveler. It's not a divider. It's a leveler. Everybody is leveled at this meal because we only come as gift recipients, right? So, it's a it's a leveler, not a divider, but they're using it in ways that divide and shame.

[00:22:32]Now, Paul says, "So then, whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner will be guilty of sinning against the body and blood of the Lord." Oh, now let's talk about this because here's here's the verses that get pulled out, you know, on little Mike Erie when when he was, you know, a teenager and young adult. [snorts] Um, whoever eats the bread and drinks the cup of the Lord in an unworthy manner. Now, first of all, the Greek word here for unworthy is a word that is an adverb, meaning it describes the manner of eating, not the worth of the eater. In other words, he's talking about how you eat, not who is eating. Okay? Can we just throw that out there with an exclamation point over and over and over again and say, "Yes, it is an adverb." And and and literature professors will tell you what do adverbs describe?

[00:23:34]>> Your face.

[00:23:35]>> Yes.

[00:23:37]A worthy face. [laughter] But but in this case, it's describing the manner of eating, not the worth of the eater. Okay? So that so we're already huge clues. First of all, we're talking about the social dynamics of a church, not private morality. But then second, an unworthy manner talks about eating, not whether or not you're worthy to eat. All right? That is a massive point. And so when clergy get up before the supper and say only those who are worthy because they're baptized, because they're a member of good standing, because they they've introduced an element that isn't in the text, >> an element to the elements.

[00:24:17]>> An element to the elements. Ooh, nice.

[00:24:20]Look at you. Exactly. So, it's not the church's job to declare who is worthy.

[00:24:28]>> Full stop.

[00:24:29]>> Full stop.

[00:24:30]It is the church's job to job to eat in a manner worthy.

[00:24:36]Oh, NOW WHAT DOES THAT MEAN? TO eat in a manner worthy. Because if you eat in a manner unworthy, you sin against the body and blood of the Lord. All right.

[00:24:46]So, whatever the meal is depicting, you are singing against that and falling short of it in the way that the Corinthians are eating. And we already know the answer to how they're they are taking the come together meal and they're dividing along social lines of status.

[00:25:04]So Paul says, "Whoever eats and drinks um in an unworthy manner will be guilty." So everyone ought to examine themselves before they eat of the bread and drink from the cup. And so the again, you pull this out of context and it's like, "Dude, are you going to eat in an unworthy manner? You better examine yourself. All right. So that your themselves is talking about the community.

[00:25:29]>> Um look around. Are you eating in a way that agrees with what the meal means?

[00:25:34]>> Look around you. Who's present with you?

[00:25:37]Who's not present when you eat the meal?

[00:25:38]Is it just a sea of affluent white faces? Are you eating it? Does that tell you something about the meal? Um, does it tell you something that there are certain demographics who are not welcome uh in your church or even though you say everyone's welcome? Are there certain marginalized groups that would never feel comfortable in your fellowship? Um, are you whether in word or in practice putting up bounded um lines around the the supper so that those who take the supper just look alike, act alike, believe alike, and have the same social status. If so, you are eating and drinking in an unworthy manner. Everyone ought to examine themselves. The word just means test, prove, look around. Are you eating in a way that honors all the members of the church? Um, I mean, that's the that's the big question. And so, if you're eating in ways that reinforce divisions, you're sinning against the body and blood. End of story. End of story.

[00:26:38]Doesn't matter if you're worthy or not.

[00:26:41]Now, um, and the divisions we're talking about, just again to be annoyingly clear on this, are not doctrinal or theological or moral, uh, or well, this person sin less than the other person.

[00:26:54]This is no humiliating those who have nothing and despising the other members of the body. That's the issue. And that is doing more harm than good. So, it's a communal concern. All right. So Paul continues, "So first, if you eat in a manner unworthy, you sin against the body and blood." So test yourselves. Is your is is the social is the social ordering reflective of what the meal is supposed to be? Um that's why it's a big I think for those of us who center our worship services on the table have to be really interested in the question of how different are the people who come?

[00:27:36]Um, are Republicans and Democrats able to eat together? Are um different views of sexuality able to eat together? Are different ethnic classes, not ethnic classes, but ethnic groups able to eat together and social classes able to eat together?

[00:27:53]Now Paul then says for those who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ eat and drink judgment on themselves. That is my many of you are weak and sick and a number of you have fallen asleep. So evidently Jesus takes this very very seriously. Now let's talk about talk about this. You got something to say? I can I can feel it.

[00:28:14]>> Nope. Just taking a deep breath.

[00:28:16]>> Okay. For those of you who eat and drink without discerning the body of Christ.

[00:28:19]Now, depending on your communion theology, discerning the body of Christ can mean any number of things.

[00:28:28]Discerning that Christ is present in the elements. Discerning that Christ is present in the not the elements themselves, but in the taking of the elements. Discerning that the bread isn't just bread, but it's unique bread.

[00:28:42]Or my take is discerning the body means recognizing the body which is the church of Christ.

[00:28:50]Um, so the when we hear body in this whole thing, we keep thinking the bread, the bread, the bread. And and there are times when he means it that way. But the the body also means the church.

[00:29:01]>> Yeah.

[00:29:02]>> And recognizing the body, I think, is really really clarified in 1 Corinthians chapter 12, which again, chapter divisions and paragraph breaks. So Paul says, and he uses the body as a metaphor, right? So the church body is like a human body. That's the metaphor.

[00:29:22]Just as a body though one, just as a physical body, though one has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ. For we are all baptized by one spirit to so as to form one body, whether Jew or Gentile, slave or free. So this is the great the body of Christ is the great leveler.

[00:29:39]>> So social rank doesn't matter because baptism is what levels us >> and we are all given the one spirit to drink. Even so, the body of Christ is not made up of one part but of many.

[00:29:51]Now, if one part of the body of Christ, let's say the foot, should say, "Because I'm not a hand, I do not belong to the body," it would not for that reason stop being part of the body. Now, so again, he's using social metaphors. If one part of the body says, "I don't belong here."

[00:30:09]um that doesn't matter because in Christ you've been baptized and you've been given the same spirit and so you're still part of the body even if you feel unwelcome and if the ear should say because I'm not an eye I do not belong to the body it would not for that reason stop being a part of the body if the whole body were an eye where would the sense of hearing be if the whole body were an ear where would the sense of smell be in fact God has placed the parts in the body every one of them just as he wanted them to be if they are all one part where would the body be as it is there are many parts but one body the I cannot say to the hand, I don't need you. And the head cannot say to the feet, I don't need you. Now, this this is honor shame language. And I think he's saying it just because he addressed it in communion.

[00:30:51]>> On the contrary, those parts of the church body that seem to be weaker are indispensable.

[00:30:59]And the parts that we think are less honorable, we are to treat with special honor.

[00:31:06]And [snorts] the parts that are unpresentable, unpresentable are treated with special modesty, while our presentable parts need no special treatment.

[00:31:16]But God has put the body together, giving greater honor to the parts that lacked it, so that there should be no division in the body, but that its part should have equal concern for each other. If one part suffers, again, every part suffers with it. But if one part is honored, every part is honored. So I don't think he's introducing this church metaphor that just is great for spiritual gifts or something. I think he's diving into this because he's teaching us what it means to discern the body. This is what it means. To discern the body means that there are less honorable members of our body who in the world are not held up um as reputable or honorable or of high social status.

[00:32:00]Well, they're deserving of special honor. And those that the the world looks at and say, "Oh, those are really honorable people. They deserve no special treatment. They already get their special treatment."

[00:32:12]And so the church again levels it bring it lifts up the lowly and it brings down the mighty so that we're all as siblings with no division. I'm convinced that this whole text, he's still talking about communion and he's still talking about the social dynamic that that honors the body and blood of Jesus and discerns the body.

[00:32:33]Are you with me? I think this is so freaking important. Do you have thoughts?

[00:32:39]>> I have a lot of thoughts, but I'm gonna let you keep going because I have there uh larger questions about how we do everything with this as an example.

[00:32:46][laughter] >> Okay. Paul does give us then one piece of advice >> just one >> well one big one. So then and this is where the proponents of the social the morality examine yourselves like they have no place to put this because Paul's conclusion after all of this some of you are getting sick and dying. So what what should we do Paul? So then, my brothers and sisters, when you gather to eat, you should all eat together.

[00:33:18]There it is. When you celebrate the come together meal, you should come together.

[00:33:24][laughter] >> Whoa.

[00:33:25]>> Whoa.

[00:33:27]Has nothing to do with who is worthy. It has everything to do with how you celebrate the meal. No, the meal anyone who is hungry like if you want to eat before everybody else then eat in your own private home [clears throat] so that when you meet together it may not result in judgment. That's so you can tell he is so not talking about who is worthy and that everyone should have a ruthless moral inventory. I'm all for confessing sin. I'm all for bringing it before Jesus and others. Absolutely.

[00:33:56]Absolutely. But this isn't this isn't that this is talking about the social dynamics that picture the meal because you proclaim the Lord's death until he comes. So are you proclaiming the meal in the way that you eat it, right? This is for me big deal. Now why would that you then celebrate open communion? Well, I don't see from this text any warnings about who can eat. All the warnings seem to be that the church is eating in a way that honors everybody.

[00:34:32]So when you introduce divisions, I uh and and and they can sound perfectly doctrinal. If you agree with [snorts] our doctrinal statement, you can take the bread and the cup. If you're a member of good stand, you can take the bread and the cup. I think you're introducing divisions there uh that that are artificial. Now, some might say, "Yeah, yeah, yeah, but didn't Paul talk about baptized, being baptized into the body, and you know, Absolutely he did.

[00:34:57]Absolutely did. Um but there being baptized is also a reference to what's happening with the spirit. It's not just physical baptism that he's mentioning, but spiritual baptism that he's mentioning. And not only that, we have examples of Paul eating the feast in the midst of unbelievers at the end of Acts.

[00:35:16]Um and I think it's in Acts 27. He it the language sounds a lot like he celebrates the Lord's supper in the midst of unbelievers. So, all that is to say, I do not think we have scriptural warrant to introduce a warning other than saying, "Hey guys, um, who's not in the room? Are are there attitudes or actions that convince people they're not worthy to be here or that they don't belong to be here or they're not good enough to be here? Is there anyone here that feels superior to other people? Um, this is a meal for gift recipients only." like maybe that warning would be appropriate for sure, but there's no other warning there. So, um I I tend to think that communion should be an invitation to everybody regardless of where they are with Jesus.

[00:36:07]Uh not only that, but communion represents the the coming together of everybody regardless of where they are.

[00:36:16]Um where they are socially, where whether they where they are religiously, are they are they far in their sanctification? Are they just beginning in their sanctification? I'm just I'm just convinced that the meal is a true coming together meal of whoever um is in the room. And um and and remember when Paul talks in first Corinthians about the gift of tongues, he says, you know, to non-believers who are watching your meal, dude, they can't understand you.

[00:36:41]So at least interpret. So at least at some points there were non-believers present. See, that was the question, too, because I remember that always being a big one, like, you know, and if you don't, you know, let the cup and plate pass you by and ruminate on, >> right, >> why why we're not letting you eat with us or I don't know what the point is.

[00:37:01]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean and and we've had people in our community and I I totally get this and I want to be really respectful of the counters.

[00:37:11]Um we've had people who are not Christians take communion and in some cases and I kid you not this is real. Those people have become Jesus followers because they've taken the they they've they said they said yes to something when the bread and the cup was offered. They didn't know what it was.

[00:37:31]They didn't have accept Jesus. I mean, we've talked about all these artificial ways of declaring when someone's a Christian when someone's not.

[00:37:38]>> Yeah.

[00:37:38]>> And people stumble into the kingdom all over the place. So, there is no, you know, it's like the center set. Are you orienting to Jesus? Well, how would I know? Well, you're somebody who sits in church and um you've never attended church before and you're not sure you buy this, but there's something interesting enough that you will take this meal with other people. like Jesus is gonna be upset about that. No.

[00:38:01]>> Well, that's the thing, right? Like it's that weird exclusionary language and doctrine that did did the folks that took communion at your church that were not, you know, quote unquote believers or whatever, did they come to Christ later because there's magic in the bread and the juice or did they come eventually because they felt invited, included, and not >> excluded from the pro or whatever, you know? It's like >> what a difference that >> makes just >> opening the door rather than closing it.

[00:38:35]>> Yep.

[00:38:37]>> Yep. Exactly.

[00:38:38]>> Although I mean there are a lot of folks that believe that it is magic and you are actually eating flesh and drinking blood and >> sure >> midnight mass.

[00:38:48]>> Holy moly. And and maybe they're right.

[00:38:52]I I'm sidest stepping all of that by just looking at my particular tradition.

[00:38:56]>> Yeah. and saying, and for me, for me, the I I mean, who did Jesus inaugurate the meal with for crying out loud?

[00:39:06][snorts] I mean, seriously, guys, the betrayer was still sitting with him, right? That's abundantly clear. Peter was going to deny Jesus. They were going to abandon Jesus. Come on. There is no worth or not worth here. And so, if anyone in our community says, "I want to take this." Of course, and there are religious people who think it's magic.

[00:39:26]Yeah, I gotta take this. I gotta make sure my, you know, my salvation is secure. I got to take the bread and the cup. I mean, yes, but I mean I how how well thought out were the disciples when they took that first meal? Or were the Corinthians when they first started celebrating it? I mean, and Paul even says, "This isn't for your damnation.

[00:39:44]This is for this is a father disciplining you so that your meal, your practice comes into congruency and alignment with the purpose of the meal to begin with." Well, so the first one, they're eating a meal. Jesus introduces this idea prior to the event that was coming.

[00:40:03]>> Yep.

[00:40:04]>> And you said earlier that this was practiced at meals like it was almost like uh how we would pray before we eat or something to that effect like >> Yeah. Part of just a regular meal.

[00:40:17]>> So when did it become this weird Sunday morning practice, not a Because like my church when we grew up, they didn't do, you know, Rock Harbor was the first place where I ever experienced those like communion stations.

[00:40:32]>> Yeah.

[00:40:32]>> So, somebody wasn't necessarily serving it. You were going to find your little >> corner and and do your own little meditation or whatever. Growing up, it was a non-denominational church, but they bought like the only thing that they had that looked fancy was the communion, like the >> stackable round silver trays with the little >> the little tiny juice cups that we'd all the kids would run around try to stack up afterwards.

[00:40:53]>> Yeah.

[00:40:54]>> Uh and it would and they would pass it down rowby row just like you know a church would do with offering or whatever.

[00:40:59]>> Yeah. But it didn't feel and that and that was as communal as I've experienced in a church because we were all taking it together.

[00:41:10]>> However, it didn't feel >> no >> like that like like a like we're sitting at a table together and we're >> No.

[00:41:18]>> You know what I mean?

[00:41:19]>> Yes. So, so I think the way that we sin potentially against the body and blood of the Lord in our practice is that it's a bunch of individuals consuming together. Mhm.

[00:41:31]>> So every every now and again we will do do it differently and and maybe you know maybe the argument could be made and I'm totally open to this that instead of doing it every week which I'm a huge fan of you know do it and build the whole service around it so you can do it corporately. So we've done it around, you know, we've had table Sundays where we just all meet around tables and share the bread >> and every table independently like >> Yeah.

[00:42:00]>> eight people around one table would commune together.

[00:42:03]>> Yes. And they would and then one one [snorts] among them would take the the the bread and the cup and pass it around.

[00:42:10]>> Um we also do um things where we hand out the COVID cups, you know, the the little builtin tiny Yeah. the prepackaged tiny wafer and little bit of juice and we'll all celebrate that together.

[00:42:24]>> Um but you know I mean we've come a long way from a meal to a thimble.

[00:42:29]>> Um [laughter] uh the other thing though I mean kind of that's >> yeah I mean it's it's a perfect metaphor. So I'm not saying we do it right.

[00:42:39]>> I'm saying that the this text causes me to pay attention to the social dynamics around the meal.

[00:42:45]>> Yeah. And per America, we meals are times to consume, not times to honor, not times to gift, and not times to, you know, um express reciprocity. And so, yeah, our our practice because of children's ministry, because of parking, like we got to we got to get it in and out and we got to do it. And so absolutely there is if I were to if I were to say okay what are the holes in our tradition I would say one is one is the individualism um in my tradition I just mean the way I the the way we practice it at our church I don't mean ever like whatever um I would say another another potential hole is it's not um it's not its own thing in other words uh it's a part of a service. It's not it's it's not.

[00:43:40]>> But that is how we do it, right? We compartmentalize every aspect of our >> totally totally totally totally. Um and then I would say I would say um we're not discerning the body and blood of Christ because I guarantee when we're celebrating communion, we're not thinking of each other. We're just thinking of ourselves.

[00:43:59]>> Absolutely not. Yeah.

[00:44:00]>> I'm not looking around.

[00:44:02]>> That's a big one.

[00:44:04]>> Yeah. Yeah. That's a big one. whether whether you even structure it individually or corporately, the language being used often is still >> individual. And >> yeah, >> so I was doing a bunch of like um research on church history yesterday because I wanted to I wanted was for a coaching stuff. I wanted to see where a break was on certain topics.

[00:44:25]>> Yeah. And um I started thinking like last I think last episode I mentioned like reading that article about how you know my therapist keeps saying for anxiety go outside go outside. Yeah.

[00:44:36]>> You know and how trees and how there's actually a neurological effect that happens >> with trees and I was talking about that in the coaching thing yesterday with like even there the random scriptures like the trees of the field like there's just different things of like >> whatever. But I was like, it was it's interesting to look at Eden as the garden as church or a cathedral or a sanctuary, a place in which God dwelt and humans dwelt among like with God in this place and and what that ideal looked like or whatever. And then how we built these structures and continually changed them. But even like the church structures, like there's backstages, there's green rooms, there's offices, there's rooms you can't go into as congregates and >> totally totally >> there's all this kind of stuff like that. And when you think about the garden and how it was built versus how we've built sanctuaries and structures, >> it's just I don't know, not >> it does not feel super inclusive.

[00:45:38]>> Like I have grown up in the church and I feel awkward walking into church buildings.

[00:45:42]>> Yeah. And so I can't imagine somebody coming from a different place the feeling of even if you do feel like I really want to walk into this space which I don't even know how many people feel that way but even if you did there is still I don't know there's just I I don't feel the inclusive nature even if there is you know a lot of times churches feel like Dutch bros like do you guys have Dutch bros out there?

[00:46:08]>> No. What is that? It's like a It's like a coffee that all the younger folks are obsessed with the coffee places. It's always a drive-thru thing and they're just very jubilant and they're always climbing. The joke is they're always climbing into your window to they don't actually, but they feel it feels that way. Like they're >> coming into your car space and being like, "Hi, how are you? What's going on?

[00:46:27]What can I do for you today? What can I get you?" And they have like really sugary drinks and whatnot. But sometimes that's how greeting feels at church is when you walk in. It's like, "Hey, how are you? What's your name? Where are you coming from? What are you doing?" D.

[00:46:37]like ah >> and and I know that's in a spirit of inclusivity.

[00:46:41]>> Yeah.

[00:46:42]>> But it can also feel kind of >> exclusive [snorts] in a weird way. Yeah.

[00:46:46]I don't know. But >> yeah, Tim Saffron, not a fan not a fan of turn to your neighbor and chat for 30 seconds.

[00:46:53]>> Well, I'm just not a fan of way we build. So everything you just said like there's weird perversions to what Jesus was doing and we and then we build after we pervert it we we build structures to it or we build like ways of doing it around the perversion rather than having a gut check every six months or whatever and saying like are we doing this right like is this what Jesus really intended or are we just further down the line of >> this kind of stuff that is causing folks to be confused that's causing people to feel guilty and ashamed D instead of part of a part of the body.

[00:47:28]>> Yep.

[00:47:29]>> No, no, no.

[00:47:30]>> Yeah.

[00:47:31]>> It's not It doesn't It feels weird.

[00:47:33]>> Yes.

[00:47:34]>> For something that was seemed to be meant in a spirit of partaking like >> Sure.

[00:47:40]>> Jesus being like, "Hey, this is >> it felt weird back then, too." I mean, that's why >> Sure did.

[00:47:45]>> That's why you had to like >> Yeah. That's why Paul had to like rebuke Peter and why he had to write this. I mean, it's >> Yeah. this is so not the way um of natural human life and relationships.

[00:47:59]But it's just, you know, for me it's indicative of the greater national park narrative of paying attention to social dynamics. [snorts] Like that's that's what the gospel's really really interested in >> is people who are growing in love. And um for and I even hate saying that because it just sounds like, you know, affection. I mean, I just mean concrete acts of honoring and >> mutuality and >> mutuality. Yep. Exactly. Giving and receiving and all of those sorts of things. So, I don't know. It just it's it's interesting to me uh to ask the question always, okay, so how did it how did it turn into this?

[00:48:44]And and I don't know. I mean, I know it became closed off. I think it I I think I I've read some things. I think it was the second century where people began, you know, you would you would undergo a one or twoyear catement.

[00:49:00]Um, and then everyone who underwent that and examined and would be baptized on Easter and and and there's something to be said for that. The people who said yes really said yes. Um, and there was also a pretty gargantuan social cost uh to saying yes until you know Rome sort of validated the uh the faith. But um I think initially it was anyone who's interested because even in synagogue you would have god-fearers who weren't Jews uh but they would be Gentiles who were sin interested in the uh and I don't you know I don't know actually if there were restrictions on their participation. I would imagine there were um I just I just don't I mean maybe from church history we can make the case that there should be but I just don't see it in this text. You know what I mean? Instead I see if we're going to come together around Jesus then let's come together around Jesus as the perfect example of what a center set sort of >> community.

[00:49:59]>> And then what does that mean?

[00:50:01]>> Yes.

[00:50:01]>> To come together around Jesus. What was he advocating for? What was he trying to build? and where have we gone arry?

[00:50:08]>> That's it. Those are always >> and that's kind of and that's kind of just the church history. I mean, even prior to Jesus, like it's like, you've gone ary, you've gone ary, you've gone ary, you've gone ary, you've gone like [laughter] I was just going through something in Exodus and I was being reminded of like, you know, how long the Exodus could have been had like, you know, they figured some stuff out. And then when Moses goes up on the hill and he tells Aaron like, "Hey, you you're in charge, bud. like you know keep them whatever and immediately they're like hey we need something to worship and because I was reading that and thinking about our to be human series and the Genesis stuff and like the whole section on you know Jewish culture being one of the only religions that didn't have structures in that way like idol like that we were the idols that we were the representation of God and how weird that was >> and then how they immediately were like Hey, build us something to worship. And Aaron's kind of like, all right, give me all your gold and I'll and I'll make you something. But and then Moses comes down like, what in the world? But it's like we just keep >> we need our systems.

[00:51:23]>> Y >> and it seems like God's consistently like you are the system. I need to I want like there's a way to do this in which you guys it's like we over complicate it by trying to simplify it.

[00:51:35]>> Yeah. or I don't know if that makes sense, but >> I think so >> because I was like I you know our mutual friend and I we like to go just sit in museums. I love just sitting there and looking at art and I love how art provokes something different in like you can look at one painting and it'll mean something to me and it'll mean something drastically different to you and there's something beautiful in interpretation but as soon as one person comes and says no this is what it is and this is how you see it >> it loses so much value. Yeah.

[00:52:05]>> So, there's so many things in how we structure things that just feel like we're limiting the spirit in dramatic ways >> and that just is a bummer.

[00:52:16]>> Yeah. [snorts] Yeah. Absolutely.

[00:52:20]Yeah. Okay. So, sweet Timothy.

[00:52:24]>> Mhm.

[00:52:24]>> Um I'm going to uh I think we should wrap it here.

[00:52:30]>> Okay. And then let's we have one more section about spirituality I want to do before we dive into kind of the religious abuse of the the woes, the seven woes.

[00:52:45]>> Oh yeah.

[00:52:46]>> Oh yeah. Oh yeah. [snorts] >> So anyway, that's where we're going.

[00:52:50]That's where we're headed. God bless us everyone.

[00:52:54]Uh Seth is at Chick-fil-A right now. So otherwise he'd be bounding in here to do the Shama. So just imagine it in your heads, folks. Love you guys. We'll see you later.

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