Marilyn Hawes Gets Emotional Discussing the Baby Preston Davey Case with Lembit Öpik

[00:00:00]Let's talk about something quite heavy.

[00:00:02]But it's something that we have to address cuz others do not.

[00:00:05]Abuse is rife in our country in many different forms. Has it always been there or has it got worse? And who are the Crusaders who stand up often in the face of horrendous intimidation to protect those who would otherwise have nothing to help them in their most vulnerable and darkest moments. Joining me now is someone who has made a career of this having experienced some abuse herself.

[00:00:32]That is Marilyn Holt. She's a chief executive officer of Freedom from Abuse and always it's an honor to speak with her. Marilyn, good to see you. You look uh >> Good to see you, too. And in Russell's seat. I mean, I can't be I'm afraid as jolly as your previous gentleman. So, um that was a very bonny chat. This is just absolutely hideous.

[00:00:52]>> It's not a happy subject. Yeah, Russell Quirk's locked in a box. He'll probably get out of it about midday uh somewhere else. He sends his regards as far as I can tell from the Morse code on the side of the box. But you're right, this is a really heavy subject. But we have to talk about it because one of the problems is people don't. Can we just start by you explaining what Freedom from Abuse actually does and why you do this?

[00:01:13]>> Well, Freedom from Abuse started from Peter just having a go with the cameras again. Hang on.

[00:01:17]>> [laughter] >> Wow.

[00:01:20]>> No, he always messes about. This is because one time I said he was having a midlife crisis and he's now taking it personally every time I come on.

[00:01:29]>> [laughter] >> I don't You're a conspiracy theorist.

[00:01:33]>> [laughter] >> He [clears throat] do adjust your set.

[00:01:36]But anyway, sorry, go ahead. Yeah.

[00:01:37]>> I I Sadly, when I discovered that when I was the deputy head of the of a school and it was a church school, the head teacher was in fact a pedophile and abused three of my four children. And he walked away from court with a 200-lb fine, even though he said guilty. And I I so enraged. I've never known anger like it.

[00:01:57]Um and I managed to In fact, I was the only person that's ever done it. Um I appealed on my without a lawyer and I made my case to then Peter Goldsmith, who was the Attorney General. Thank God it wasn't Lord Erma then. Um and he said, "No, this is unduly lenient." And he went [clears throat] to prison. Um from then, I became a media [ __ ] cuz it was like never been done before. And when I came out of the court, I'll never forget it, court eight uh High Court of Appeal, every cameraman, ABC, Fox News, Sky News, BBC, Channel News, all of it, were there.

[00:02:32]I've never seen anything like it. I'll never forget the day because it was the day Gordon Brown's son was born. And and my sons came with me to to the court and we were held hands thinking, "Oh my god, is is he going down?" And he did. And yeah. And from then on, I made it my mission to Why I'm always asked why. Why Why do people do this? Why do people do that? I've always been one of these girls that drove everybody mad cuz I was always saying, "Why? Why?" But that's how we learn. So I started going into prisons and talking to pedophiles and sex offenders and and then I did a lot on Sky News, but of course Sky News has become far too woke.

[00:03:08]Uh we've got two-tier media now, it seems. Um thank God this show isn't. Um and you can't express even politely what the real world is doing. Um and I Oh my god, I was absolutely inundated and then people from prisons who were in fact abusers also started writing to me and said, "Can I talk to you?" So I thought, "Oh, this is interesting."

[00:03:29]Um cuz they're obviously thinking, you know, they can manipulate me. Well, they're never going to do that. And I used to go in and say, "Look, >> [laughter and clears throat] >> you know, don't think you're just going to groom me. If I think for a moment you are, you know, being like you are, manipulative, I'll press a little button and you were going to solitary for a while. So let's be sensible and you tell me your history. And from having spoken to the the pedophiles and sex offenders and people that meet out all sorts of horrific abuse and and let me tell you now animal abuse absolutely directly links with child sex abuse because it's all to do with control over the vulnerable, right? So when I see someone recently was done for animal abuse, I said check out what they're doing with children because there will be a link. There's always a link. And I learned very quickly that it goes back to the brokenness of the early years and the trauma and the lack of emotional intelligence.

[00:04:27]>> That's I I I I hate to have so little time with you, but let's talk about a subject which could take 2 hours on its own.

[00:04:34]This appalling case of baby Preston. Now I warn viewers there's no comfortable way of discussing it, but discuss it we must.

[00:04:43]Can you share for those who might not have heard of what happened, what occurred? And I know you personally have felt very strongly about this particular case.

[00:04:51]>> I just think I've never in my life of doing this for 23 years now, I have never known a child abuse case so bad.

[00:04:58]In fact, it's not it's more than that.

[00:05:00]This is satanic satanic sadism at its very highest limit. It's not just sexual abuse. I don't want to actually speak what happened. Look it up. This little baby boy who was absolutely stunning. It shouldn't happen to any child, but what was wrong was that the poor mom had a terrible situation and rightly so I think the baby was rightly taken away because of the family and the grandmother wants to look after him, but there was a lot of sort of bad stuff going on in the family. But what they did with this 9-month-old child which would is so difficult to adopt a baby anymore. They're normally 2 years old, but they gave it to this gay uh They didn't know they were pedophiles.

[00:05:46][laughter] >> [cough] >> And to adopt to adopt and within four months that child died. And I still think they lived in the house. Did not people hear next door this child screaming? What they did on him? They I don't know whether I can say this.

[00:06:03]You know, they they >> We don't say that here.

[00:06:05]>> Am I allowed to talk about this sort of stuff?

[00:06:07]>> Yeah. Yeah, just keep the language clean, but let's not let's not disguise what happened.

[00:06:11]>> They they they they gagged him. They they they they put their dick in his mouth. He choked. And do you name it? He had so many bruises and all that. He's he's bleeding. He went to the hospital.

[00:06:22]He was happy to go He had to go to the hospital. They said, "Oh, he's fallen out of his cot." Um, you know, so they believed it. And of course the trouble is I know I know what the problem is.

[00:06:30]They would have done what they did with the the gangs or we can't be racist.

[00:06:35]This would be we can't be homophobic.

[00:06:38]Yes, you can. It's not homophobia. This is control This is protecting a child's life. And I want to see the people who >> [laughter] >> allowed this to happen, who didn't respond. Four times I I tell you what, I'm going to implode if somebody comes out and says lessons have been learned.

[00:06:54]They're never damn well learned. They're never learned because people aren't interested. No one loses their job. No one ends up being arrested and charged.

[00:07:01]They are party to this crime. They knew this child was being harmed. They had Sorry, I'm so upset by this. They allowed it to continue. They are guilty.

[00:07:10]Now, what I want to do and after I've had this call with you, Lambert, I'm appealing to the Attorney General because one of these scrotes has gone down for life. Great. For life, no parole, nothing. I can tell you now about the prisoner's code, right? He's a marked man. That man will have done to him what as much as they possibly can get away with what he did to that child.

[00:07:34]Now, what A lot of this happens behind closed doors. You got to remember these prison officers like me, if I I that man in front of me now, I would be arrested and charged because I would not be able to keep my hands off him for, you know, a very severe way.

[00:07:47]But, they will get at him. They will get at him. Now, sometimes business >> one second. One sec- one second. I understand what you're saying there, and we have strong views. I just want to say we're not actually advocating further lawbreaking here, but I take it what you're really saying I was speaking with my guest Andrew earlier on about this, that there are some red lines in our society which, when crossed, lead to the kind of reaction you're describing.

[00:08:13]>> That's what I'm trying to say.

[00:08:14]Beautifully put, articulately put, Lambert. And I'm just I have shed tears over this this child. Honestly, I really have. And, you know, if if they say lessons have been learned, I will personally implode, I think. But, I am appealing today because there's a thing called joint enterprise, which I don't think people understand, and the children in the schools don't, and they should. Joint enterprise means you are there when a crime is committed, you didn't stop it, you didn't do anything, you didn't call someone to come and help, you just stood there and watched.

[00:08:40]That's what the other scrote did, right?

[00:08:42]Now, he's got, I think, 18-25 years, whatever. He'll be out in 16. I am appealing that he gets a longer sentence because this is not right. They're only in their early 30s now. When he comes out, he's going to be, what?

[00:08:53]>> [snorts] >> What, 20 years time? He's going to be in his mid-40s. They don't change. They don't He These These are not going to change. These people are not going to change, right? They're too far gone.

[00:09:03]They're too far gone. You You can do something with teenagers that start grouping, you can do something with that because their their their brains are still being developed. But, this is dreadful. What I also want to say is if anybody wants to appeal, I urge you to do it. It's You can do it online. You go to gov.uk, and it's sentence sentence, what's it called?

[00:09:24]It's sentence appeal. All right? And you just do it online, easy. And the more of us that do it, the more the chances that this will be looked at, and that guy is going to get longer. Just like the chap who killed Novak, Henry Novak, right?

[00:09:37]That's what >> But what about the jury?

[00:09:39]>> Last last >> Lambert?

[00:09:42]>> There's so little time. We need to do a whole show on this, but I want to ask you one last question.

[00:09:46]We discussed this earlier on, myself and Andrew. Lessons will be learned. We always hear this phrase, "Lessons will be learned." Is that just cover-up? Is that cover-up by people who knew?

[00:09:55]>> Yes, of course it is. It's it's a cop-out. It's a cop-out. So, it Why is They should stand up and say, "We accept we have miserably failed. We have got to live with this. And the people who were party to it, who used homophobia as an excuse." Cuz that's what would have happened.

[00:10:13]That, you know, these people are now heads are going to roll, they're going to lose their job and their pensions.

[00:10:18]Oh, it won't be that. Nobody ever loses their job. Nobody is ever disciplined.

[00:10:22]They come out or they may resign. The guy who's the leader of the council, where's he? He'll probably be wheeled out in a minute to make some statement about, you know, lessons will be learned. And he'll maybe resign one day with a wonderful fat pension. There's never any punishment for the people that allowed this to happen. You see it time and time again. You saw it Baby P. You saw it Victoria Climbié. You saw it with a little gorgeous little girl down in Surrey, you know, the one that was murdered, awful, tortured by her father.

[00:10:52]Well, you know, she went through hell and back. This is I think is even worse, but neighbors must have heard that baby scream. And I you know what? You've got all blood on your hands. Anybody that got How you can sleep at night is beyond me. Because I do Do you know what I want to start appealing with as well, Lambert? I want to start an appeal for the law or something to change for jurors. Do I I can't read it all. It makes literally makes me feel sick. You You sat through that whole case. You will be traumatized.

[00:11:21]>> Thank you so much. And I I don't envy those who have to sit on those sorts of jury trials.

[00:11:31]Where can people find out more about Freedom from abuse, Marilyn, before you finish?

[00:11:34]>> Just put it online freedom-from-abuse.org and you know, we don't have a team. It's me. I've got lots of associates and you know, I don't I don't get I don't get paid for what I do. I just feel passionately. It's every child's human right to be to be secured from harm and I will to my dying day do my absolute best. So, sorry. I'm so upset by this, baby.

[00:11:56]>> Your Your authenticity isn't just touching, it's actually motivating. There will be people feeling that that you're on their side and we thank you for that, Marilyn.

[00:12:06]Sorry, I've got more time now.

[00:12:08]>> Best of your time.

[00:12:09]>> We'll talk about this again. That's Marilyn Holt.