What will Chinese cars do to used car prices? – Car Dealer Podcast

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-24

[00:00:00]The Car Dealer podcast is sponsored by Autotrader. John, have I mentioned that we sell more cars from adverts on Autotrader than anywhere else? Yes, I think I read that somewhere.

[00:00:12]>> Well, with over 84 million consumer visits per month, they connect retailers like us with more potential buyers than any other platform. But it's not just about the numbers, is it?

[00:00:23]>> Is that what you say to your accountant?

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[00:00:46]>> It sounds like Auto Trader is basically doing all the work for you, James. No, John, I still do some things like take out the bins. Anyway, to find out more about how Autotrader can help you, visit autotrader.co.uk/partners/retailer.

[00:01:06]Welcome back to the Car Dealer Podcast, where we pick our favorite stories of the week and ask an industry guest to choose which were the best. No, this isn't John Ray who's had elecution lessons. It's me, James Bachelor. Uh, yes, I was a guest last week and now I am hosting. I'm not sure if this is promotion or not. Um, perhaps James Bagot can tell me. Hello, James.

[00:01:31]>> Uh, no, it's not.

[00:01:35]>> John Ray is going to be so angry when he hears this, isn't he?

[00:01:38]>> Is he?

[00:01:39]>> Yeah. You've just said he needs eleution.

[00:01:43]>> If anybody needs those in this company, it's me.

[00:01:46]>> Well, yes. Well, I don't want don't I don't want to be too rude about about the boss, but yeah. Um, it's John's fault for for for failing to turn up this week. I mean, it's quite rude, actually. Um, but there we are.

[00:01:57]>> He normally manages to make the podcast wherever he is in the world. I think when he was in Japan on holiday, he still made the podcast.

[00:02:03]>> Yes. He was in Newcastle last week and he still uh made it. And, you know, and and Yeah. So, >> but today, no, not today.

[00:02:14]>> Anyway, what have you been up to? What have I been up to? Um, I've been buying terrible cars. I mean, no, no changes.

[00:02:21]>> Surprise, surprise.

[00:02:24]>> Um, I um I bought the worst car, not the worst car, the cheapest car in the car wow auctions uh this week, which was a um 165 2006 134,000 mile Vauxil Tigra.

[00:02:40]>> I mean, you love those, mate.

[00:02:42]>> Oh, >> I could see you. I could see you in one of those.

[00:02:44]>> Oh, yeah. that I mean the the folding roof and the coarser underpinnings are you know that's that's that definitely gets the blood pumping doesn't it? Um >> nobody nobody has been that excited as I was about picking up a Vauxil Tigra probably including those people who bought them new. I bought I bought I bought it for the purposes of a video and I thought well let's do a let's do a little video see what this thing's like.

[00:03:07]So we went to pick it up this week. Um, and without wanting to ruin the video that's coming out tonight on the YouTube channel. Um, I bought it back to the dealership. Our um, our mechanic had a look at it and promptly wrote it off. He said, "This is this is probably the worst thing you've ever bought." So, I paid I paid £165 for this car. Um, I spoke to the scrap man. He said, "Oh, I'll give you £150 for it." Thinking I don't want a 15 pound loss. I mean, that's that's not good. So advertised it as spares or repairs as an absolute, you know, I was completely honest and said what the what the condition was. Uh spares or repairs. It's just been sold this morning to somebody else who's previously bought a terrible car from us. Um another absolute junk car. So So and guess what? Sold it for 500 quid batch. Profit.

[00:03:51]>> I mean that's I don't know much about the world of selling cars, but that is definitely a profit, isn't it? Yes.

[00:03:58]>> Well, I mean Tom Harley Jr. is probably shaking his boots when he hears that. I mean that is that's major money. That's major money.

[00:04:06]>> Um so just clear something up for me. I mean what was the roof operating on the Tigra?

[00:04:12]>> Roof was operating back.

[00:04:13]>> Wow.

[00:04:14]>> Roof was fine. I mean that the mechanism alone not wanting to bore the the listeners any more than normal. But the mechanism alone was worth £200.

[00:04:23]>> Oh, I think the result I think you're being a bit generous there. I think it's um >> Anyway, enough of my uh my my my to my my toils and tales. What have you been up to?

[00:04:33]>> Um I've been I've been out of out of the office a little bit. I've been I've been driving various things actually this week, which is a rare occurrence. Um I actually had my first ever uh drive of a of an HGV yesterday, which will scare which will scare which will scare many many people who know me. Um I was a trucker.

[00:04:54]I was a trucker for the morning and it was an electric truck, a massive Mercedes E Actross, a proper 44 ton thing with a trailer on the back.

[00:05:05]>> Why on earth have they let you behind the wheel of that?

[00:05:07]>> Well, cuz I'm a very influential journalist. That's why. Um, this is why this is why I've got sunburn because I've I've been I've been uh I've got a sunburnt arm of course called trucker arm. Perfect. But um >> uh it was it was an amazing experience.

[00:05:24]very very easy. Um I loved it. Although I mean it is it's it's one thing driving a uh a big arctic at a test track. I mean it's quite different um driving it through the center of a town. But I did get an insight into how difficult it is to drive. You know truck drivers get a bad rep, don't they? But when you're driving something so massive, I I I realize it is quite a difficult job these these truckers do the these truckers have. Do they teach you do they teach you how to overtake people on dual carriageways really slowly as part of the uh as part of the test?

[00:06:00]>> Uh no, but we did I did learn how to overtake a broken down Voxil Tiger at the side of the road. Um >> anyway, should we move on?

[00:06:13]>> Should we stop throwing? Yeah, let's do that.

[00:06:14]>> Yeah. Okay. So, um uh well, this week's guest I'm pleased to say it is none other than automotive consultant Darren Martin. Hello, Darham.

[00:06:24]>> Hi, James. How are you?

[00:06:26]>> I'm very good. I'm very good. Sorry.

[00:06:28]Sorry about listening to to all of that uh complete rubbish there, but uh any >> Yeah, Darren, any views on the Vauxil Tigra? I mean, do you think James has made a great great purchase there?

[00:06:40]>> Well, as you as you may know, I used to work for Vauxhall. I spent 17 years there and I was there in 2006 and I think there was a dodgy batch of Tigras that were that were there but no shouldn't be saying that. No, there wasn't. But I'm not I'm not sure many people wanted them back in 2006. So it was a great purchase but um yeah >> they only sold 90,000 of them apparently.

[00:07:02]>> Is there that many hairdress and me? Yeah.

[00:07:08]>> Now now Darren, let's not let's not trot out the cliches. Come on.

[00:07:13]Um, well, Darren, look, um, we we I'm think it's I think I don't think this is too much of an exaggeration to say you are the godfather of car values. Um, we definitely think that. Um, definitely think that. Um, and uh, >> you can put that on your LinkedIn.

[00:07:29]>> Yeah.

[00:07:31]Yeah. Brilliant.

[00:07:33]>> When I say godfather, I don't mean you're old. I just mean that you've got a lot of knowledge and everybody looks up to you. Um, that's that's why I say godfather.

[00:07:41]>> Grandfather. Yeah.

[00:07:42]>> Yes. Yes.

[00:07:44]And people don't have to kiss your hand when they when they ask for some values from you. Um but um you look you you've you have done some work for Kazali. You continue to do some work for Kazana um which is a name that um recently returned to the industry. Um look we talk to you every month about car values. The last time we spoke was about April. Can you just give us a little sneak peek of of of May? I mean has is May like we've spoken about before May can be a bit of a tricky month can't it?

[00:08:14]Um because of bank holidays and and etc. But uh how's it been looking?

[00:08:20]>> Yeah it can be a tricky month but yeah I was having a look at the latest data today and and um there's a wealth of data that Kazana get by um harvesting on the internet and they're up to sort of almost a million records a day different different um a million different VRMs now and it's looking pretty stable to be honest. So which is um which is good for mate. So um I was I was looking particularly at electric vehicles cuz there's obviously lots in the press and we probably everyone was predicting you don't have to be any godfather of any sort of valuations to predict that when petrol and diesel prices go up that people will start to look for EVs and hybrids and that type of thing. And um EVs did go up in value during April. Um in May they're pretty stable. So it it's there's still demand out there for them.

[00:09:05]um demand is increasing, but obviously as we've been saying for a long time, supply is steadily increasing as well.

[00:09:11]So, it feels like at the moment they're fairly well matched, but overall May seems to have um seems to have been been pretty good. Obviously, we're now in for a spell of decent weather and then half term uh next week. So, that can slow things down. But, um at the moment, it's been um been a pretty good month. So, yeah, with the bank holiday coming, it can uh tend to to um drive people away from going to look for cars. But at the moment it's it's all pretty steady as she goes. Um cars are um EVs are still selling well. They're still the fastest selling fuel type. Um and their values are more or less in line with with petrol and with diesel. All all pretty pretty level at the moment actually so far this month compared to last month.

[00:09:52]>> Some of the people I've been chatting to this week, Darren, I've had a catch up with with CarGurus. I spoke to Motors as well, Kazoo as they're now known. um just about how it's going in the market because I was just interested because our leads have been down actually this month. May has been quite quiet for us.

[00:10:09]Um and then chatting to like our our finance broker Octane Finance, they were telling us that that last May was really bad for them. Um and this May is is tracking very similarly. I was just I wondered so listening to you there saying you think it's kind of like it's quite steady from what you're seeing.

[00:10:25]It's just I was wondering like some of the people I'm chatting to are not saying the same thing. Um we we're certainly not seeing it as well. I just wonder whether May is usually a bit rubbish because of the bank holidays. Do you think people have lots of time off because of the bank holiday at the start of the start of the month and then we got half term next week as well and that's always rubbish as well. What do you think?

[00:10:44]>> Yeah, you tend to go so depending on when Easter falls. We always always say Easter is like is a watershed for valuations really because before that you've got the the strongest section of the year really. Obviously you come out of Christmas into January. January is generally um strong, February strengthens, then Easter falls in March or April and that's when it can drop off because people start looking at holidays. People go away at Easter, people go away um at the the early May Bank holiday. Um you get sort of exam time for the schools and people going to visit garden centers and if the weather's nice, it's almost like the start of the summer, isn't it really May? So that can um stop people looking at cars, but it so it it it does tend to be one of the weaker months. April and May are probably the two weaker months.

[00:11:32]It then generally you get June and July stable and quite interestingly August where you would expect it to drop off doesn't seem to that doesn't seem to happen. Um there's probably less part exchanges coming in during August anyway because there's a buildup waiting for September and then you start to get um to towards the end of the year and and it and it can drop away again. So start of the summer, May, two bank holidays, a half term, it can tend to be the weaker.

[00:11:57]And when so when I've looked at the data and it's fairly steady, I would definitely see that as a positive because in general values will drop and I would expect that trade values will be dropping this month. Um obviously because a deal more on the retail side, we do get trade data as well, but on the retail side, the the dealers aren't dropping the the prices too much at the moment. They're holding steady. Days to Sell is relatively steady as well. So being steady in May I would see as a positive as definitely as a good thing.

[00:12:25]>> You you also mentioned about electric electric cars. We've we've tried a few of them. We've got a couple in stock.

[00:12:30]They always seem to sell very very quickly. Um we've we've really tried to dip our toe in in the water with them and actually trying to buy buy some more. Are you seeing more used car dealers, more smaller used car dealers like us trying them and and that's what's pushing these values up a little bit, do you think?

[00:12:48]>> Yeah. Yeah. Well, there's definitely more consumer interest in them and and I think the dealers that have been reluctant to to stock them in the past and with good reason really in the past because of what happened a couple of years ago with values when the values like completely it's probably three years ago now when when values dropped dramatically on EVs. It was people left holding the stock at that time um carried a lot of pain from then um and once bitten twice shy. So people just seeing that happen who weren't stocking them at the time have shied away from it, not going to get caught by like that. Ones that did stock them were obviously scared by it, but we've been saying for ages that they should certainly be dipping their toe in and buying them. And I was really interested in your in your article, which might be one of your stories about the um the guy who's um just stocking Teslas and doing really well out of them. Now, I mean, I always say everyone goes down the pub and says they've got a Tesla, don't they? don't necessarily go down and say you've got a Ford Focus or a Vauxil Astra, but you say you've got a Tesla and people notice Teslas and whether they're people have a good opinion of them or a bad opinion of them, people still like them and will buy them. So that there's a lot of them out there, but that definitely helps if people are stocking um if dealers are stocking them. So consumer interest has peaked.

[00:13:59]If consumers are um sorry if the dealers are savvy which a lot of them are when they saw what was happening with fuel prices due to the unfortunate war in the Middle East they would have been very sensible to have started to stock some and probably a bit like you've done once you stock one and sell one quickly and like like your story um once that happens you just go and buy another one and then and build it up from there. So, and at the end of the day, everyone's got to have them at some point. If unless they change the ZEV mandate dramatically, we're all going to be driving electric vehicles in however many years it is, whether that changes from 2030 to another point in time, but everyone has to have them at some point.

[00:14:36]So, why don't the dealers start to to dip in now? And yeah, they're definitely stocking more of them.

[00:14:40]>> Yeah, I mean, I'm driving a Tesla at the moment. I bought one to bought one to sell, and I I keep talking customers out of it. I like it too much. It's absolutely brilliant. Um I think the weird the weird thing but batch I I just I wanted to mention to you because the the weird thing I find with Teslas if they I think if they had a press office people would be shouting about them so much more. They haven't had a press office for years have they? So many journalists don't get behind the wheel of them and now I've actually had to spend some time in it. It's like effectively like a little long term. I absolutely love it. I couldn't recommend any other electric car over it really. I mean that's you know what I'm like when it comes to electric cars. Not the biggest man, but this one's turned me.

[00:15:18]>> It really has.

[00:15:19]>> I went to company car in action. Um I go every year, but I went a couple of years ago. Um probably three years ago, and I drove the Sealu. Um I only drove electric cars because I just wanted to try as many electric cars as I could.

[00:15:32]And the best two I drove were the Tesla Model 3 and the Sealu. It was it was really good. They were they were both the best the best that I So >> I I drove it to Birmingham last week for the um for the motorway conference and um it's the longest journey I've done in electric car for a long time. I uh had no problems whatsoever. It's got 300 mile range and it accurately says how much range you're going to have. It doesn't give you any of this nonsense that a lot of electric cars do. And the Tesla charging network is second to none. It is absolutely brilliant. It works perfectly. You turn up, you pull the thing out, plug it into your car, the car knows the charger, the charger knows the car, it builds your account, you don't even have to think about it.

[00:16:12]It was it's how electric cars should be.

[00:16:15]And I think all all these frustrating stories we've had over the years on this podcast when we're driving electric cars that are not which are outside of that Tesla ecosystem, they're nowhere near as good. I know Batch, have you experienced the same thing? You drive loads of electric cars, don't do you?

[00:16:30]>> Yeah. And funny enough, um I've been driving an EV for the past kind of four or five months. And up until about two weeks ago, I was of the view. I I think the moment has come now where you can accurately rely upon running an EV until I had an absolutely shocker of a day where I was doing a long journey. Um, I turned up at a um at a charging hub uh from one of the big suppliers and um all of them were off. 12 chargers were off.

[00:17:05]Um and then I went found somewhere else and there was an H ironically there was an HGV being charged which was zapping all of the power. So I had to wait there for ages and ages but being charged through the nose like 96p per kilowatt hour or whatever it was. Um, and then on the way back from Wales, I had exactly the same thing at a completely different charging point. Most of the chargers were switched off. So I think but it's one of those situations where if you have a bad charging experience, it goes horribly wrong. But I think for the most time most part I think we are getting to the stage now where it is a viable alternative for for lots and lots of people. On your point James about Tesla, I totally agree with you. I mean, I think if if Tesla sort of acted in a traditional way, which was doing a lot of PR, a lot of um traditional marketing, having perhaps dealerships, you know, and and and going down that more traditional route when they launched, you know, 10 10 or so years ago, I think they would be in a much better place than they actually are now.

[00:18:05]But they've always wanted to disrupt, haven't they? And going back to what you were saying earlier on, Darren, that that was ironically it was Tesla who caused this massive drop in EV values, wasn't it, three years ago when they cut the new car prices. So um they well they just they do like to to stir things up, don't they? They really do.

[00:18:26]Yeah, I think I mean there there a lot of people will say that and look back in time and almost like rewrite history, but at the time there were there were Teslas disrupting, but there were also a lot of electric vehicles in total coming back into the market around a time when they were too expensive and there wasn't the demand for them. It's very very simple economics really. too many coming back, not enough demand, and prices were skyhigh, and that's why they why they dropped, and they were too they were way higher than petrol as well. So, yeah, Tesla get the blame for for what happened, but it was really just the volume of cars coming back in around and in the um and it was in quarter 4 as well. It was the weakest quarter of the year. It was the perfect storm really.

[00:19:09]Tesla weren't blameless, but I certainly wouldn't say they were completely to blame for it. Um but history will yeah look back on it and say that they were but there was a lot of cars coming back at that at that point in time.

[00:19:19]>> Yeah.

[00:19:19]>> But just looking at the data now um what I just said about cars generally staying level in May Tesla Teslas have actually gone up by a couple of percent. So they are per they're outperforming the market at the moment. So obviously with people considering EVs they're maybe considering Teslas more more than others. Although what I'm talking about is advertised prices. So, it's the dealers pushing the prices up, but they're doing that because they probably sold one and they're buying another one and and and pushing them up. So, >> they're probably doing what I'm doing is put a really high price on it, so nobody wants to buy it because they want to keep it for themselves. I mean, that's >> that's probably what probably what it is. I mean, Darren, talking talking of disruptors, and it's something that we've talked about a few times when when Bach and I have had catchups with you for our for our monthly chats about valuations. We always sort of touch on the Chinese cars, but today we've got a little bit more time. I'm just I'm really interested to get your take on what you think is going to happen when these cars end up back in the market because you know you look at the JU 7 bestselling car in March. Incredible. I mean did 10,000 units in three years time that means 10,000 of these things are going to come back into the market plus all these other ones. They're taking huge shares of the of the new car market. What's it going to mean to use car values? What what do you think is going to happen? Um, it's a really interesting area and uh I worked with with the guys at Cherry for a year. Um, and during that time they they developed a used car program. They built up their dealer network. The biggest issue for me is that yeah, these cars, so we looked at when they're going to start coming back. Obviously BYDs are coming back in numbers now. Um, and JQUs and Amodas will start coming back more in volume from next year. the the biggest threat for me is that the new car offers are so good. Um, and with the ZEV mandate, the new car offers are going to continue to be good. Um, although I have to say the Chinese aren't just fully in on electric, they're they're all over petrol and hybrids as well. But unless there's new used car demand from consumers, and um, I tell this story a lot. I went into an Amoda dealer and we talked about how great the Emodas were doing and it was a um, a dealership with six or seven different brands. It's a a big place in Alsbury. Um Perry's um and they had they've got Ford, they've got Vauxhall, they've got um Amoda and Ju.

[00:21:39]And people go in there potentially for a used Ford and they walk out of there with a brand new Amoda. Um and when I said to the sales guy, how a used sales going, and this was a few months ago, he said, "Oh, we don't sell any used motors. We only sell new ones." Because the the the finance on them is is a lower rate, the monthly payments. it makes no sense to buy a used one and that has to change because otherwise those residual values aren't going to work. So obviously residual values have been set on them. I would expect with a little bit of prudency on there and I know um that that CAP have been fairly prudent with it and I would imagine the the um fleet and leasing companies will have done as well. But when those cars start to come back next year, will Amoda and Ju BYD be looking to um support that used car network and push those used cars because they can't just push new cars because every new car becomes a used car and that's what affects the residual values and the finance rates.

[00:22:33]>> Well, what's happening now, Darren, with them? Because there are I mean, I do see them occasionally pop up in the auctions, you know, the odd the odd BYD and and a couple of them actually. is obviously some people who just sell them pretty quickly after getting hold of them. Um they don't seem to go they don't seem to attract much interest. So I mean are people buying them?

[00:22:52]>> I mean by that I mean dealers at the moment.

[00:22:55]>> Yeah. Well they they will buy them in in low numbers because but all but the franchise dealers are focusing on new.

[00:23:01]So um yeah they will sell but it's the it's the bow wave of volume that is that is the biggest concern. So what you said about the JQ7 yeah they're going to come back. um the ones that have come back early. Um I was at an auction when we first launched the JQ7 when I was there and they did they did all sell. They sold for um where where where more or less we expect them to go. They were pristine really good-looking cars with really really good nick with a low mileage. If you start to get some that aren't quite as good, then yeah, that's that's going to be a lot more of a challenge for them, especially if they're nearly new because they will be competing with new ones and the new car offers and and the Chinese brands uh well certainly BYD and and Cherry Moju, they're they're all about market share.

[00:23:45]They're all about getting their volumes up and it's working brilliantly for them, but they do have to um have at least one eye on the uh the used car market because otherwise that is a problem that's coming further down the line.

[00:23:59]>> Do you think it's going to impact the values of of other cars just like it's impacted and disrupted the new car market now? I mean, when in 3 years time when they come back, they're going to to be attractive, they're going to have to come in at a price that looks attractive, aren't they? Otherwise, like you say, people are going to go and buy a new one instead. Those Chinese brands are still going to want to be pushing their new car sales and then and that those offers are still going to be there. So, the used car prices need to come right down. And then what happens to all of the other cars in the market?

[00:24:29]I mean, surely it's going to push those down, too. I >> I've been saying this for for a number of years really that it has to have an impact on everything else. So when you look at a um say I don't know a used Qashqai um being 24 grand and a new amoda being 25 grand what what happens there? Where does that used amoda then become? Does that become 15 grand or 12 grand or something like that? It has to push the prices down because a consumer now isn't as loyal as they were back in the day. So they will look at everything that and when you look at an emot on a forcourt that's cheaper than a Qashqai, they're not going to be loyal to that Qashqai. And what a lot of these um some of these brands have done as well is they've they've chipped away at their dealer network to because they thought thought they had too many dealers and they've been snapped up by the by the Chinese like let's let's have a franchise dealer that used to be a Nissan potentially or a Ford or or a Voxil and go in there. So you've got and those dealerships have a loyal brand of customers. um they'll go in with their Qashqai or Juke or whatever and they'll come and they'll come away with a motor or a Jacun because that's what that dealership is now selling. So, it has to have an impact for me on those other brands if it carries on like it is because the used cars just have to be cheaper. Um they're not ridiculously cheap, but you got the Tig 4, which is 1999 brand new. Where's a three-year-old one of those? And what does that compete with at that point in time as well? So, it is um very disrupting. very disrupting, but it's it's what they what they want to do. And I know that the the Chinese want to just sell new cars and get that new car market up, and there's talk of them getting they want to get it up to 3 million or that type of thing.

[00:26:07]Uh I mean, it's sounds pie in the sky, but who knows? We're in a different world now.

[00:26:12]>> Do do you think it's Sorry, B. Do do you think it's going to come gradually? Do you or or do you think this is going to be uh a big shock? Bit like we've seen the new car market. I mean, they they've come in very very quickly uh and disrupted the market and caused, you know, some some manufacturers to question what they're doing. Do you think in the used car market we're going to see the same thing? At one point in time, all of a sudden, values are just going to plummet like they did with those those EVs.

[00:26:37]>> I I don't think so because those cars will come um back in different times.

[00:26:43]So, even if they're all registered in March, they don't necessarily all come back in March. So, they will come back at different times. Um so yeah it will be um it will be more sort of tailored or stepped I think as it goes. I don't think there'll be a big crash but I think there will be concerns and some of those residual values will will have to start coming down because of it. That would be my my view. I don't want to cause panic in the market but um unless the Chinese brands get those used car the used car demand up and to do that they might have to not be so quite so keen on the on the new car. And are they going to do that? Certainly is no signs of it at the moment, but maybe they get themselves established and then when the volumes start to come back, as I say, for for a motor and JQ, it was mid 2027 and then obviously ramping up and up and up from there. If they start to then put more focus on the used car offering at that point, then maybe um I >> No, it's okay. It's fine. I do wonder though whether these Chinese cars are going to be um and I'm generalizing here but whether some of these Chinese cars are actually going to be desirable in 3 to 5 years time. You know you you already have to you only have to look at the Facebook groups the owners groups who you know the owners are the are the biggest particularly the JQ owners group. They're the biggest advocates for their cars. They absolutely love them.

[00:28:05]And yet, you know, on a weekly basis, you see photographs of of rust on on on three-month-old cars. Um, and and problems getting parts and supplies and and and also there's been some negative headlines recently around the warranty.

[00:28:19]You know, it's some some some of the warranty items aren't actually covered compared to the legacy brands such as, you know, Kia and and etc. So, I do wonder whether it's, you know, it's all well and good being able to sell these cars at the moment on cheap leases and and piling them high and selling them cheap, but you know, in in three years time, are these cars actually going to be desirable if they're sort of falling apart?

[00:28:46]>> I don't I think one thing you will say about them is that they will if they do have issues, they will sort them out um and they will improve the cars. I've not seen anything about rust on them or anything like that. I know there there have been some issues about getting parts but again they'll sort that out.

[00:29:00]There were some issues around insurance and they they sorting that out. These are huge businesses that are very very agile um and as soon as there is an issue and that's why they they may well have plans in the used car area as well and this is their this is their time to build the volume up and get the name out there and every other car is a JQ7 on the road at the moment isn't it? And they that's everyone's really likes them. So I think this is this is their time and maybe then they'll they'll sort of pivot a little bit next year to focusing more on used. But yeah, I've not seen any sort of quality issues with them. So I've not I've not seen what you're what you're saying there. So I can't sort of comment on on that type of thing. But potentially the issues they're having um as I say with parts will get sorted out.

[00:29:43]The insurance got sorted out. Um if they have got other issues that they might not be any more than other cars are having as well, but because it's a new brand, people might be mentioning it. I I I don't know. Yeah, I've not I've not seen that.

[00:29:55]>> Do Do you think this is the biggest disruption we've ever seen in this this industry?

[00:30:00]>> I I think so. I think it's it's bigger than the switch almost the fuel type switch the these cars coming in and and we we've all sort of lived through the Korean brands coming in and the and the the scrappage scheme which helped Hyundai and Kia back in in 2008 and N which was which was really good for them. Now, before that, people weren't necessarily considering a H Highendai or a Kia, but now but now they they're obviously well on the shopping list up there with Vauhall and Ford. When I I left Vauxhall in 2012, and I would never have imagined that Vauxhall wouldn't be number two in the market because they were always number two. Ford were always number one. Um the established brands were all there. Kia and Hyundai kind of came in and slotted in and I I went to a Kia conference when I was at CAP and they were talking about doing 100,000 a year and that felt quite um optimistic and now they're doing 100,000 a year. So they've all grown but now these Chinese brands have come in.

[00:30:55]Um what was there? We've mentioned BYD and Moda JQ Cherry but there's there obviously Changan is AON with great a great offer out there now um with sort of servicing offers and that type of thing and there'll be more coming and they're they're building more brands up and and I I do believe that some of the legacy brands will have to will have to go um because I just don't think they can cope with the the drop in their market share. Um, a lot of the the companies, maybe the Japanese ones are very profitable elsewhere in the world.

[00:31:24]Do they need to be in in the UK? So, yeah, I do I think it's a huge disruptor. They're not going away. These Chinese, not all of them will will make it, but most of them will. Um, and they're going to be they're going to be here for a for for a long time now, and they're doing a lot of volume, and they're only going to continue doing that. And it's how the used car market copes with that. And as I say that that difference between new and used has there has to be a gap there but they have to sell those used ones as well because otherwise the residual values just come down and the monthly payments go up and and then it all becomes a little bit messy. So yeah there will be some big changes then I think over the next few years it's going to be it's going to be fascinating and this is this has only been going on for two or three years isn't it? And it feels like it's just been an absolute bow wave and we're all talking about it. It's happened so quickly. where where we're going to be in another two or three years time.

[00:32:12]>> Yeah. Well, we'll see, won't we? Well, Darren, thank you very very much for joining us. Nice to see you as always.

[00:32:17]But back, we should probably try and do some stories.

[00:32:21]>> Attention Call Dealer podcast listeners.

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[00:33:53]Now, back to the podcast.

[00:33:58]James and I are going to run through our favorite stories of the week and then at the end Darren gets to decide, lucky him, which of us have chosen the best stories and and of course who who is the winner. Um John won last week. Um which would naturally mean that I would be taking over from that. But as he isn't here and uh you know you are in charge, James, I mean would you like to start?

[00:34:21]>> Oh no, I'll let you go first.

[00:34:24]>> Oh.

[00:34:29]or have you not got one ready? Is that the problem?

[00:34:31]>> No, I have got one ready. I just thought I'd give you the opportunity to go first.

[00:34:35]>> Oh, I'll go I'll go first. Um, right. I would like to talk about Autotrader. Uh, their their a shock. Their results came out this week uh for the last financial year um revealing another uh very impressive profit. Um, but there were some things behind the headlines that are probably just worth talking about. So, Auto Trader has had a I mean, let's say I would say a troubled year actually. I mean, they they introduced Deal Builder at the end of end of um November last year controversially. Um, it was met with with quite some resistance from the motor trade. There were those protest groups that set up off the back of it.

[00:35:16]And as you'll probably remember, we've had Nathan Co, CEO on this podcast um CEO of this podcast, CEO of Auto Trader on this podcast talking about um that and how they changed things as a result.

[00:35:29]But now we're seeing how it's impacted their financial year and actually it did have an impact. So when you go back to those protest batch, there were a number of dealers that said they were going to cancel their auto trader package al all together. Um there were some dealers who said they were going to downgrade their packages. Um these results show that 71 dealers uh is the net drop um from 2024 um to into the end of March this year.

[00:35:56]So 71 dealers uh are down now on Auto Trader. There's obviously going to be some churn there. I've seen quite a bit of noise in some of the other WhatsApp groups etc that I'm in about dealers saying they don't believe that figure but you know this is these are the facts that have come out in in their in their annual results. Um but what they have said uh auto trader is that revenue growth has slowed to 3% in the second half of its financial year and they said that they that reflected two things uh the difficult trading conditions uh and also retailer feedback regarding their deal builder product rollout. So they're actually naming that deal builder as an issue for why their their growth slowed in the in the second half.

[00:36:37]>> Now let's I mean let's look at the numbers. They uh operating profit for the year just shy of 393 million.

[00:36:47]Still that is an amazing business making an operating profit margin of 63% on the 624 million that they brought in.

[00:36:56]Incredible numbers. You know, this is a marketplace, so it's the middleman, isn't it? Putting the dealers in front of the consumers, and the consumers um can find those cars from those dealers, and they're obviously taking a cut in the middle. Average um spend per dealer has actually gone up to um which is always quite an interesting thing. Car dealers are now spending just shy of 2995. Sounds like a Valtigra. Uh 2995 uh each with Autotrader. Uh up 5% on the previous year. So, they're managing to push the amount of money they're getting out of out of those dealers that are on the platform. Autoama, that leasing business it bought um continues to lose money, but those those losses have now halfed. Uh they lost 2 million pounds in the Autoama division last year. They're going to start wrapping up those results in the wider business. So, they we won't actually see what the leasing division is doing in the future. Um but they say that they expect it to make a profit this year. Um but interestingly employee engagement something that they mark up in their um in their annual results fell drastically from 91% to 72%. Um they say that reflected a challenging year for the company both due to internal and external factors. So I mean they've had a difficult time haven't they auto trader I think they've they've tried to change the the narrative. They've got these customer advisory groups in place now where they say they're listening to the motor trade. They put in place a smaller uh rise this year, but they did do a rise in the package prices again.

[00:38:31]Um but uh they they're trying they're trying hard to to win back win back the motor trade and win back favors. I mean, at the end of the day, most most car dealers out there can't operate their business without Water Trader. is the biggest driver of sales for for the clever car collection and we certainly couldn't operate without it. Um and I think you know both they know that and both the motor trade knows that. So it's a very very difficult position. I thought the interesting thing batch was was the share price. I mean it hasn't gone down well with with investors share price dropped I think it was about 8% yesterday. These results came out on Thursday. Today's Friday so yeah dropped 8% yesterday. So, and and and already that share price has halfed, pretty much half from last year. So, under pressure, um, Auto Trader um, but still you look at those numbers, they're massive, massive profit, aren't they?

[00:39:20]>> No, it is massive. But I I I I know you've already mentioned it, but I was surprised by the Autoama bit because um, and and and the fact that it still isn't turning a profit. I know these things do take a a long time in the making. Um but and and the profits have been sorry the losses have been h haveved but I'm still surprised it's taking time for auto trader to actually turn a profit from from it. Um I mean there is so much competition these days in the leasing market. Um but it really does show doesn't it that that even a big company like Auto Trader Group is struggling to make a profit from this from this type of operation. I know they say they are going to make a profit next year. I think that's what you said, but um I just thought we would have started to to start seeing some of that uh by now. I think it's been three or four years, hasn't it, that they they've owned that.

[00:40:11]So um yeah, that was the big surprise for me for me for from those results.

[00:40:15]>> I mean, it was the it was the deal builder stuff for me, the fact that it it was woven through these these results. They mentioned it. I mean, in a separate statement that they issued alongside those results, Nathan Co said that they've been focused on working closely with their retail partners to ensure Deal Builder um and how they roll it out works for retailers. Well, they have doubled down on it. It's still they've said the deal builder product is going to be continued to be scaled uh and has strong conviction of the benefit. This the company has strong conviction of the benefits uh to retailers and car buyers for that for that product. they have tweaked it quite a lot. You know, they it's it's nowhere near as um as impactful as it was at the start. And by that I mean you you really when when consumers went on it was either build a deal um and message the dealer was sort of hidden away. So they've tweaked the the the product pages for the cars uh and as a result the leads have sort of sort of increased certainly certainly for us and others out there. Um but it's still controversial. Um, and it'll be interesting to see how this one plays out over the next year. I do think Auto Traders have still got some work to do.

[00:41:24]Um, keeping keeping dealers on side.

[00:41:26]These customer advisory groups work, but they need to listen to those dealers and actually act on on the advice they give them. Darren, what did you think of these? I mean, they're incredible numbers, aren't they?

[00:41:36]>> Uh, yeah, they are. I mean, we're talking about them having a difficult year and they're still making massive profits and probably bigger than any any car dealer could ever dream of making.

[00:41:45]So, they are still doing well. I would say about auto it's a great business and the people there are obviously really good. They they do they offer really good insight. I do think if I'm honest they've become without being too controversial a little bit of a necessary evil and that that's a little bit like um my old employer cap became a little bit of a necessary evil as well.

[00:42:06]And it's interesting when you say that the amount they're charging is going up per per dealership as well because that is obviously a um a business model. How long that is sustainable for I don't know. You need you obviously need to look after your customers as well as just putting the prices up. But yeah, I'm not saying they they don't look after their customers, but that obviously there's a bit of pressure coming on auto trader, isn't there?

[00:42:26]Because Kazoo now Motors have of that that's a very well-known consumer brand.

[00:42:31]One of the things that Kazoo did do well was marketing. Um, too much of it, but everyone's heard of Kazoo, so that will help the the Motors Kazoo brand. We hear that Amazon are coming into the market.

[00:42:43]Um, Google, there are going to there is going to be more pressure. Auto trader have kind of had the marketplace for a long time and there will be I mean everyone buys off Amazon, don't they? If Amazon is serious about selling cars, then that will that will make an impact on them. um that there are um as I said well I I do work with Kazana we're looking at doing sort of um valuations that carry more data than AutoTrader and will be cheaper than Auto Trader as well. So there are valuation businesses that will kind of eat into that area as well. So there are there are alternatives but um yeah I suppose the thing for me is just how that they still made a lot of money but but everyone's talking about it as a little bit of a mini crisis but still incredible figures and they do do a really good job and like you say you you you rely on them as well. You need them to sell your cars.

[00:43:32]So it's a it's almost like I don't know different parts to that story and there's so much to read into it really.

[00:43:38]They're doing really well as a business.

[00:43:39]We shouldn't ever knock anyone for doing really well as a business either, for making profit in in in what could be difficult times. So, they are doing really really well with that. But yeah, um they they have to keep their customers happy as well because there there's a you can get a bit of a ground swell against it. Um 71 dealers dropped.

[00:43:57]I would be interested to know what what how many dropped off the year before or whether any dropped off the year before, whether that was a all due to deal builder or because perhaps some went bust and um or just chose something else. they must have a a little bit of um a change in their their figures every year anyway. So I don't know what it normally is.

[00:44:15]>> I think a lot of dealers will say that they downgraded their packages. I mean as part of that protest and um and I think well we've seen that in the results the second half of their of their numbers were were down on what they normally are but right should we move on but actually I mean that's probably enough Auto Trader.

[00:44:31]>> Yes. Yes. So um I'd like to talk about Ford who came out with a big um announcement this week. Um they've said that they are going to launch um five new models as part of a major uh offensive uh which could actually see the return of the Fiesta name. Um perhaps Ford are finally realizing that perhaps getting rid of the Fiesta wasn't perhaps a good idea. But anyway, um back to the the actual story. So um they've outlined their plans to renew um its commitment and I'm quoting here, renew its commitment to European drivers and businesses. Um it's going to be another quote a comprehensive product and services roll out. Um so these these new models um are going to be a small electric SUV, two multi-energy crossovers, um a European version of the Bronco, which of course is um a a bit of an American icon uh really. um and an electric B segment hatchback which is going to be based surprise surprise on the Renault 5. Um and uh it could likely see the return of the Fiesta name. Um interesting uh story on a on a number of levels, but my kind of overwhelming feeling about it is is it all just a little bit is it just a little too, you know, too little too late? I'm trying to say. Um, and I say that because Ford, you know, plans to introduce all of these models by the end of 2029. Um, you know, that's quite a that's quite a bold thing for a Colossus like Ford to say.

[00:46:05]And I think it's fair to say up until the past few years, we'd all agree that um churning out five new cars, five major new cars in the space of three years is a very bold thing to do. But you know as as we spoke about earlier on in the past three years or so we've seen the Chinese arrive and and for the Chinese you know three years is is like three weeks uh to to the Chinese isn't it? And you know what is going to happen in three years time when Ford uh return to the B segment with a Fiesta? They've got some more SUVs. Where is the market going to be in three years time? Um I uh I don't think it's too much of a a bold thing to say, but you know, Ford's market share is going to be even more diminished in three years time. Um and are they just going to become, you know, a bit of a a bit of a side player um to to things? I I I don't know. But I I on the one hand, I admire Ford coming out and saying, "Look, we're aware of the fact that we we we've lost market share in Europe. you know, we've taken our eye off the ball um and we plan to fix it, but uh you know, is is it is it a little, you know, too little too late? I don't know. What do you think, James?

[00:47:19]>> I think you're probably right, B. I do think it's a little bit too little too late, unfortunately. They've they've been absolutely decimated by the Chinese, haven't they? I think if you look at those those big brands that used to be number one uh number one and two, Ford and Vauxhall, they've lost huge huge amounts of market share to these to these new entrance. And I think, did you say four years until this Fiesta arrives?

[00:47:41]>> Well, no. So, all of these models are going to arrive by the end of 2029, >> right?

[00:47:47]>> Yeah. But, but still, I mean, you know, it's five cars, which, you know, uh, the likes of BYD, they they've already, you know, launched five new cars so far this year already. So, you know, it is it is it it is a bit of a a slow burn this really. And it's it's not just the the new models, it's the price, isn't it?

[00:48:08]What we've seen is that people re consumers are really reacting to the price of cars. And if Ford come in, it doesn't matter whether they've got new models or not, they've got to come in with the right monthly payments to attract those those customers in. Ford has got an incredibly strong following in the UK. I mean, it's been an it's an amazing brand, but I do think it's really lost its way over the last few years. Uh, and they need to they need to get their mojo back. And I sort of hope this will this will help them. But yeah, the price has got to be right, isn't it?

[00:48:35]I mean, Darren, what did you think?

[00:48:38]>> I'd use one one phrase here. China speed. I mean, >> 2029 is not China speed.

[00:48:44]>> No.

[00:48:44]>> Um, and that that felt when I when I saw that in the story, I thought, wow, is that is that what they're saying?

[00:48:50]Because when I was at um consulting with with Cherry Group, they told me that the Cherry brand was coming um in a at a year's time and it and it turned up in six months time, less than that, maybe three or four months time. It was it was crazy. And that's what they do. they bring things forward. My my um memory of working at Vauxhall was if they said it was going to be at some point, it would generally be a little bit later than that. And I think Ford were like that as well. So, this just shows the massive pressure they're under. And I suppose something else about it as well, it's on so the same platform as the Rena 5, which is also the Nissan Micro. The Fiesta has done really well because it it was it was out there on its own. It was a good little car and and um back in the day people would say, "Yeah, buy a Ford or a Vauxhall because you can't go wrong. there's a dealership around the corner and that doesn't that doesn't doesn't cut to mustard anymore because that's not the case. So, um yeah, it Ford to me, yeah, they they feel like they're they're always going to do okay, but there's been lots of talk and I think a lot of people have sort of suggested they might go van only at some point as well because of the the pressure they're under. So it'll be interesting what they what they do, but that 3 and 1/2 years till till they do all of this with five models is nowhere near what the Chinese are doing. And it's I know it's very difficult for them. It's not deliberate. It's the speed they they kind of go at because that that's what they have to do. But there are other obviously Stalantis are partnering with Chinese brands and and bringing in like Leap Motor and things like that. Perhaps Ford will will pivot and do something like that as well. But at the moment I think bringing out another Renault 5 in 3 years time is uh under a different badge is not going to help them particularly.

[00:50:23]>> No, I don't think so.

[00:50:25]>> I think just sorry just on a just a one last point on that. I think you make a very good point Darren about you know this was Ford which were very independent. You look at the Ford business now they've got a massive partnership with VW. Most of their EVs are based on VWs. Um they've along with their commercial vehicles. you know, VW are taking Ford commercial vehicles and now they've got this partnership with Renault to take the Renault 5. You know, it doesn't look particularly good that such a enormous engineering company like Ford and they've got all these different partnerships with with rival brands, but perhaps that is that's that is the future. You know, these these once in great independent firms are all having to get into bed with each other to try and and stave off the the attack from China. I don't know. Interesting.

[00:51:09]>> It it feels like there's too many of them though, doesn't it? You look at the Stalantis, the marks within the Stalantis brand, there's too many there.

[00:51:16]They all compete with each other. And if Ford go in with VW and Renault and then they compete against them, it just doesn't seem to make make sense, does it? You're all you're all sort of cutting each other's throats by by partnering with each other almost. And the Stalant brand, as I say, they've got what, Peugeot, Citroen, Fear, Vauxhall, Jeep, they all kind of compete with with each other in in in certain um areas and it just feels like something something has to give and you almost need to to lose something to to be able to compete more with the Chinese otherwise you're all of your shares going to go down.

[00:51:47]>> Yeah. Right. I'm just going to let let us move us on. Um, and not want to talk about Autora again, but I just want to use this as as a as an example of what's rapidly changing in this market. It's the way people search for their next used car. Auto Trader has launched its own app within chat GPT, allowing consumers to search dealers stock using conversational uh queries directly through chat GPT. Now, they're not the first to do it. Um, Kazoo have had launched one a few weeks ago and I mean I don't know if you've ever used it batch but what you do you when you go on to chat GPT there's like there's an app section you have to so it's not a case of just asking uh chat GPT directly you have to go into the apps to actually search for search for these cars but I just wanted to talk about this a little bit because I I think this is going to be a huge change to the way people buy cars in the future. I mean last night let me just use it as an example. last night with the heat wave coming, I wanted to buy an air conditioning unit that I've been promising myself for for years. Um, and I've just really struggled to find the right one. I mean, it's it's very similar. I know to to some car buyers. I know nothing about air conditioning units whatsoever. I don't know what good looks like. They all look exactly the same to me. I just want one that does the job. Very similar to a lot of car buyers who turn off my dealership. They don't know anything about cars. They just want the car to do the job for them. So, I I started on chat GPT and I asked it questions. You know, I live in an old house that got old older windows that I didn't know whether these air conditioning units were going to work with it. It served up all of the information I needed in a way that you could just be like I would be chatting to somebody in a shop, you know, chatting to an expert. It's ask me questions about where I was going to use it, how big the room was, all the sort of things that a longtail Google search would never have never have provided.

[00:53:34]And it's it got me down to the point where it was starting to serve up the different I'll stop talking about air con units in a minute. The uh it started serving up the different aircon units in the app with links to them on Amazon and it just sort of it guided me down this long funnel to the point where I clicked on it and I bought it and I'm thinking right okay that's a 300 pound odd purchase that chat GPT has helped from the absolute start to right at the bottom where I've gone and bought that bought that unit. People will be doing that with cars now because there's so many people out there who know nothing about cars and just want something to help them do it. And they're probably embarrassed to ask their friends.

[00:54:15]They're probably embarrassed to or scared to go into car dealerships and get that advice thinking that they're going to be taken for a ride. Sadly, that's what a lot of people think when they turn up at a dealership. And they're going to do it in in Chat GPT and other AI platforms. I just think that, you know, it's a it's a small story on our website, but I genuinely think it's probably one of the biggest changes we're going to see to the way people find and and search for cars in the future. Don't know. Have you have you bought anything using chat GPT's help? I mean, it's incredible.

[00:54:44]>> No, I haven't. But um off air you and I were talking about the aircon units and I did I did um you know, type into chat and I was amazed at how you can you know you you you can have a conversation with it, can't you? And um and and and like you, I know nothing about air con units, funny enough. And uh they they they are all white boxes with great big tubes hanging out the window, aren't they? And yet I don't know what's what's what's what would be good for me. But uh but interestingly I know uh you know some advertising platforms I know auto trader have spoken about it various others have you know trying to adjust the way the search works on their website and try and make it a bit more not necessarily conversational but but operate in a way which which people are increasingly need. So you know you you have a conversation about what kind of car you want is always going to be problematic isn't it? Because whereas with chat GPT you've got it on your phone, you know, you can it's it's it's very informal, isn't it? And you're it's always there to go onto a platform such as Auto Trader, you you actually are making that that concerted effort to go to a particular platform to search for a car. Um, you know, if we can get into that world where it's a little bit kind of, you know, it's uh, you know, it's it is more informal. I think that's probably the key to success really. But um whether we're going to get to that stage or not, I don't know. But it is it is interesting and I think you make a very interesting point about that.

[00:56:15]>> I just wonder whether it's it's not quite right at the moment though. The fact that you do have to use it as an app within chat GPT. I mean it's it feels to me that these sort of searches should be on the front end of of the actual website. It should be at the front end of Auto Trader. I mean, I've long thought that the make, model, uh, mileage search just assumes that the consumer knows what car they're looking for.

[00:56:37]>> Yeah, they know what they're talking about.

[00:56:39]>> They know what they're talking about. I don't, Darren, what do you think? I mean, it's Have you Have you used Chat GPT or AI to help you buy stuff?

[00:56:46]>> I I use it quite a lot to be honest.

[00:56:48]Yeah. um use I mean everyone's probably got a story about how they use it, but I um I I got some solar panled solar powered lights in the in the garden and I snipped through it cuz I'm an idiot.

[00:57:00]Um snipped through a wire and normally those lights would go in the bin. I took a photo of the of what I'd snipped and said, "Can I fix this?" And Chat GPT told me what to buy, where to buy it from. Brilliant.

[00:57:11]>> Um and how to fix it. And it was really really simple. I'm no electrician. And normally, as I say, I would have chucked that in the bin. And that for for something that was four quid as a connector, people will laugh at that because people probably do that anyway.

[00:57:22]But I'm I'm not Mr. DIY. And I just and I fixed it. So I think from a car buying journey, um it you have to be careful, don't you? Because it will obviously the way it gets his information chat GPT is from the internet. So if you've got people putting some bad stories on there, it might put some people off because you'll say, "Well, yeah, I want a JQ7, but oh yeah, but so and so, James Bachelor said there's some rust on them." So it yeah, that that type of thing it will it will pick up on. Um, so you have to have experts as well. But I think from from the non-savvy and the and the people that aren't like back in 20 years ago, 30 years ago, people just buying a Ford or a Voxle, the choice was very limited and they knew where they were going to buy a Fiesta or they were going to buy a Nova or a Corsera. Now there's so much choice out there and it will send them down that path. And I'm sure if you just put into chat GPT, I want to buy an electric vehicle between 10 and 15,000.

[00:58:16]What should I buy? Um, it will it will probably tell you what what to go and you'll end up with a pretty good car out of it as well. And once you start using it, it's actually quite addictive as well and you use it all the time.

[00:58:26]>> Yeah, definitely. Batch, come on. Let's try and wedge another one in, shall we?

[00:58:31]>> Yeah. Um, I I know this is this podcast is becoming the Chinese show, but I just I do want to get Darren's view on on this and and of course yours, James. Um, but more importantly Darren because he's more important. Um but um um we had there's another announcement this week of another dealer group um uh getting another Chinese car franchise.

[00:58:53]Um it is uh Brindley. They have signed up uh Lipass um or Leas, I'm not entirely sure how you pronounce it, but uh uh it's of course Leas is another one of of Cher's brands. uh Brindley uh they've acquired the franchise um and it's going to go into one of their old uh Honda showrooms. I mean this is a situation that is repeated far and wide across the the UK at the moment, isn't it? Um uh you know it's it's it's your your usual kind of press release that's come out. The interesting thing I uh about it for me is in the story they say that Lee Pass is going to they're targeting 50 UK dealerships uh by the time it officially launches in September with plans in place to grow it to 70 by the end of the year. Um I'm sure they will get to 70. You know, we've seen that with all the other Cherry Group brands. You know, when they say they're going to uh uh you know, hit a particular number, they invariably do.

[00:59:56]But I just kind of question what all these Cherry brands are offering. Um, you know, we've I get that Cherry is is the more valueorientated brand. Ju is a little bit premium. You know, it's it's cars are are kind of um uh they're based on uh certain British luxury off-road brands, particularly in the styling. A motor has always looked a little bit awkward to me. But where does Leapas fit in? Um, you know, particularly when you look at the lease deals on all of these cars, they are kind of all around the same price. You know, for the consumer, why would they choose a JU over a Leas?

[01:00:31]I don't know. Um, but, you know, are we going to get to the stage where there's just too many brands here and they're all going to start cannibalizing each other? Um, I mean, what what do you think, James?

[01:00:43]>> Well, I mean, you say that, but yet they the consumers keep buying them, don't they? I mean, I've just I'm I'm staggered every time I see a different one of these these vehicles on the road, especially around here. You know, it's there are there are so many Cherries and um and a Modas and Jacuz on the road. I just think there's they're managing to to to carve up the this huge slice of of the network and I I of the market and I think Leas is going to be exactly the same. They're electric only though, aren't they Leas? Is that am I right in that?

[01:01:16]>> Uh at the moment they are. Yes. But, you know, invariably, China does seem to be really loving plug-in hybrids at the moment. So, I'm sure they'll be venturing into those as well. But >> what I can't tell you is what it offers different over any of the other brands from from Cherry. It looks it looks exactly the same. And actually, if you took the badge off each of them, I don't think I could tell you which one is which.

[01:01:36]>> And I think this >> I know.

[01:01:38]I know and and you know I have spoken to people from Cherry about this and they say it's not an issue but you do have to kind of remember that traditionally you know consumers they know the difference between a Scoda and an Audi don't they or they know they they know the hierarchy of where these brands exist and I think hierarchy is is is an important thing and uh I just I just don't quite understand um what they're trying to achieve and and who is going to be buying these cars. I don't know.

[01:02:06]Am am I being a bit too old-fashioned here, uh, Darren? Am I Am I uh is is brand loyalty and uh brand hierarchy a thing of the past?

[01:02:17]>> No, no, you're not being oldfashioned at all. It is confusing, but I I guess the consumer doesn't really worry about that. They'll just they'll look at a deal and they'll they'll try the car and they'll buy it. They won't really care whether a Cherry is a Leas is a the motor is a Ju. They'll just choose the one they want. I think Leopus is the one for me that does is a little bit more confusing the with the others because so yeah Cherry is the is the family brand.

[01:02:40]Amoda is the more sporty sort of sleeker brand and Jacu is the more rugged off-road not off-road but off-road looking brand and as you alluded to Land Rover uh they call it the Teeu Land Rover don't they? So, um it is a a cheaper Land Rover, but um the Lepas for me, I I wasn't consulting with them when that was brought in, and they do look very similar to the to the Tigos and the the Cherry um the Cherry cars. So, not quite sure where that one fits in, but it's good marketing again, isn't it?

[01:03:11]Because people are talking about it.

[01:03:12]There's a new brand coming in. They're going to sell cars. They the the dealerships love it. When it when I speak to to dealers, they love having these Chinese brands because there's so much interest in them. and they've gone from maybe representing um I don't know Toyota or Honda for years and years and now they've got these new brands coming in with a new product and it's exciting and people people do talk about it. So it works from that point of view. So um yeah, I'm not quite sure where it sits but I mean they will all sign up to it every there's there's not a dealer I've spoken to that doesn't think they should be embracing these Chinese brands. Um but where Leas fits in time time will tell really. Yeah. No, I agree with you.

[01:03:49]But we've probably sort of run out of time. Do you think?

[01:03:52]>> I think we probably have. Um Darren, before I ask you for your verdict on on who's who has won this week's podcast, I mean, are there any stories you think we've missed this week?

[01:04:02]>> Um I I shouldn't say this because I know both of you aren't football fans, but there's only one story this week, and that's that Arsenal won the league. Um, so I've had a I've had a very very busy week celebrating, so I've not been reading many of your stories, but >> I can see I can see the flag, but not flag. That's how much I know about scarf. I can see the scarf behind you, Darren. Looks like you're wearing it as a hat.

[01:04:25]>> I had to get that plug in there because it's it's been very excitable in the Martin household this week. Um, so the stories I think you you you missed uh in reality. So, I know we didn't want to talk too much about Auto Trade, although we have I thought the Auto Trader fastest moving cars was a really interesting story. Um, I think the ZS was the fastest moving sold really well, like 15 days or something like that, which is which is crazy fast. Um, and the other one was Motorway going into the remarketing world, which is an interesting sort of move for them.

[01:04:54]They've obviously been consumer and now they're they're um teaming up with Mobilize and and will develop that area.

[01:05:00]So yeah, I thought those those two areas were um those two stories were were were good were interesting ones for me. I'm obviously always used car uh related was my where I where I sort of like to read.

[01:05:12]So yeah, those those were probably the two.

[01:05:14]>> Yeah, I was I was at the motorway conference last week and they talked about it. They couldn't obviously announce the name until this week, but I know they're very very excited about this remarketing thing and actually really clever way of doing it because these lease cars used to have to go back to a auction company had to be picked up back to an auction company then retailed. Now they um now all the consumer does at the end of their lease list it on motorway and sells it directly from their drive. I mean clever very very clever idea from motorway and I'm pretty sure they will get many more leasing companies follow suit if they can if they can make it work. So yeah, an interesting one. Probably should have talked about that.

[01:05:49]>> Yes.

[01:05:52]>> Anyway, who do you think had the best stories then, Darren? Is it Is it me or is it is it James?

[01:05:58]>> Um, I'm going to say um I think the most interesting story of the ones that we've talked about was probably the auto trade a profit one. So I think it's I think it's Mr. Bagot >> by going first. You should have gone first, James, because then you'd have you'd have had that one, wouldn't you?

[01:06:14]Probably.

[01:06:14]>> I know. I know. But I know but Darren um um off air I would have been abused by James if id so on air that's why yes that's why I deferred to him but anyway no right choice I mean that was the the biggest story of the week without doubt so uh anyway well that's all that's all um that just leads me to say thank you Darren also to you James and thank you to our to everyone listening and of course watching on YouTube uh we'll be back next week with another another episode so make sure you're subscribed so you can be notified when that goes live. If you want to check out the stories we've mentioned today, take a look in the show notes below or head to car dealermagazine.co.uk.

[01:06:55]Thanks for listening and goodbye.