SBC LIVE | THE MONTAGNE POSÉE PRISON INCIDENT COMMISSION OF INQUIRY-21.05.2026

Añadido: 2026-05-28

[00:00:00]the military had gone in and that you saw people running up upstairs to your section. Yes.

[00:00:07]>> to the to your floor. Okay. So, what happened after that?

[00:00:10]>> And uh And uh Me and my brother, we check by the window and we see that a special group of army army was already inside, the police was already inside and they was firing boom boom boom like I said in the stairs.

[00:00:34]And uh We we check again by the window. We see there's another group of army.

[00:00:43]Them they were they were They have these latest gun in their hands like these assault rifle.

[00:00:54]There was about maybe eight of them.

[00:00:56]They were sitting down on the stairs.

[00:01:01]On the stairs at the administration office.

[00:01:05]They were just sitting up there.

[00:01:09]While there was army and trying to to to to to come in.

[00:01:16]And that was I think around nearly nine like that.

[00:01:22]Nearly nine.

[00:01:25]And uh I think they go back outside.

[00:01:33]They they they couldn't they couldn't uh get on the second floor. [snorts] They couldn't get on the last floor.

[00:01:42]And uh Why why [clears throat] was that? Yes.

[00:01:45]>> Why was that? That they couldn't get on the uh >> Um Maybe around 9:30 10 maybe.

[00:01:55]I I asked why was it that they could not get on that floor? Why? Why they couldn't get on that floor?

[00:02:00]>> Oh, the the the inmate block the staircase. Okay.

[00:02:06]Carry on.

[00:02:06]>> Yes, the inmate block the staircase.

[00:02:09]And uh They try, they couldn't, they go outside again.

[00:02:21]And that special group of army officers says that eight of them that was at the office, they were still up there at the office.

[00:02:31]And then the rain start falling, like heavy rain, start falling, and uh there was a lot of fogs.

[00:02:44]And then I see the firemen, they come inside, cuz this was it was blocked on the second floor.

[00:02:54]They was pouring water.

[00:02:59]And a lot of water on the second floor, cuz the water go over my uh my my ankle.

[00:03:09]Yes, and uh now I see these guys that was up at the administration office, now I see them coming down.

[00:03:24]Okay. With the prison officers, with the with the other officers that was that were that was there earlier on.

[00:03:32]You say there was fog at the staircase?

[00:03:34]>> And then One minute, you say there was fog? Yes. Was it visible um that you could see the officers coming down?

[00:03:42]I couldn't see properly at the administration. Mhm.

[00:03:48]But I can see them down when we check down at the prison, I could see them now entering with the with their guns, with the assault rifle on them.

[00:04:00]Okay.

[00:04:02]Yes. So, proceed.

[00:04:05]It was easy to identify them because the assault rifle have a green laser in front.

[00:04:14]So, you could see the green laser coming down like this.

[00:04:18]So, yes, they come up.

[00:04:22]They managed to come inside and move on the second floor when they come inside.

[00:04:27]You can hear the the inmates [snorts] crying and screaming and and gun blazing.

[00:04:38]And the sound of the all these gunshot that was happening earlier on, the sound change.

[00:04:47]And I even tell my brother, I said, "You know what?

[00:04:50]Now there is live round."

[00:04:53]I tell him this.

[00:04:56]I tell him, I said, "Now it's live round that's working cuz there was some guys who was standing in front of our cell, they start getting hit. They start getting shot in their hand. Um you mean inmates or other officers?

[00:05:13]>> Yes, inmates. Okay. Okay. Yes.

[00:05:16]They wasn't even close to my cell.

[00:05:19]And even me, I come down, I was like kind of looking outside the cell.

[00:05:24]And one guy get shot in the hand.

[00:05:28]An inmate get shot. Who was that?

[00:05:31]>> And as soon as I check Who was it? Um I don't know the inmate name.

[00:05:35]>> Okay. But he get shot in the hand.

[00:05:37]As soon as I see that, I said, "No, no, no, no, things is not good now.

[00:05:43]People going to die."

[00:05:46]So, people start. There was only like two cell. There was my one and there was the opposite one where Mr. Ernesto he sell. But but I tell me I tell personally I tell Mr. Ernesto to stay in our cell cuz uh he he like coming watching TV everyday.

[00:06:08]There he stay with the remote in his hand and he we just let him do watch his TV whatever channel he wants to watch.

[00:06:16]And he was there inside. He was there inside.

[00:06:20]>> [snorts] [clears throat] >> And as soon as I see like I said the inmate get shot in the hands.

[00:06:28]I said this is not good and inmate start running inside my cell and the one opposite.

[00:06:35]So, there was a chain and a padlock. I tell the guys to say lock the gate cuz it was full and it was very crowded overcrowded in our cell now.

[00:06:52]So, they lock the gate.

[00:06:55]And me my cell was inside where I'm I'm talking there is four cell and me my cell was last.

[00:07:05]And these officers managed to come to our cell.

[00:07:11]And they were screaming open the gate open the gate open the gate.

[00:07:16]And uh we s- some inmates try to go.

[00:07:21]They was already there trying to open the gate and I think they use a shotgun or something to open the the padlock with.

[00:07:31]I think cuz I cuz cuz cuz uh Yes, cuz I heard the gunshot gunshot.

[00:07:37]So, I'm I'm pre- presuming they they they use a shotgun to open it. Okay. So they managed to take them to open the the the the door. So they managed to open the gate.

[00:07:47]They managed to open the gate.

[00:07:49]And they they wanted to So what happened when they once they had access inside?

[00:07:54]>> they opened the gate, they start beating up these these inmates that was at the front and start shooting.

[00:08:03]What were they >> Bum bum bum bum bum bum. What were they being beaten with?

[00:08:09]What did they use to beat the inmates with?

[00:08:12]>> There was gun in my in my in my in my cell.

[00:08:19]And they were screaming Subramanian Subramanian Subramanian.

[00:08:24]Who was calling >> said and and and they even call my name.

[00:08:29]Father Subramanian Father Subramanian.

[00:08:30]And who was calling your name?

[00:08:32]One minute. Who was calling your name?

[00:08:34]>> The army officer.

[00:08:35]>> The army officers. The army, the special one. These [snorts] that they call themselves special.

[00:08:41]They uh Okay.

[00:08:45]I came out. It was crowded there.

[00:08:48]They were shooting.

[00:08:50]Some police officers mix was uh was shooting shooting shooting.

[00:08:57]So I came out with my hand up like this.

[00:09:01]I came out on them.

[00:09:03]And I I tell them I say, "You guys put me in prison and now you come in prison looking for what?

[00:09:10]Here I am. Like this. Hands up.

[00:09:16]And I think they were a little bit shocked.

[00:09:19]They thought maybe I wasn't going to come out.

[00:09:23]Cuz when I came out, they actually stopped all the shooting and everything.

[00:09:27]It's like they was waiting for their prize to come out.

[00:09:33]So I came out. They say, "Put him in handcuffs."

[00:09:37]They say, "Put his Put handcuffs in in my hands up. So, I put my hands up like this.

[00:09:45]They couldn't reach to put handcuff.

[00:09:48]So, they they say put your hand down.

[00:09:50]I put my hand down.

[00:09:52]You see as soon as these guys they lock my hand one of them with the assault rifle shot me about two three times in my in my in my leg.

[00:10:05]Like this. Do you know the the officer military officer or police officer who shot you?

[00:10:11]Or I >> No, I don't know.

[00:10:14]You don't know.

[00:10:15]No, I don't know him. No, I don't know him.

[00:10:18]He shot me blah blah in my in my in my leg.

[00:10:23]So, I tell him I say my friend you shot me and I come on him to push him cuz my hand was in handcuff.

[00:10:35]There was someone behind me.

[00:10:38]I don't know if with a long pipe or something like very long one.

[00:10:45]And he hit me behind my leg.

[00:10:48]Um my calf.

[00:10:52]He hit me there.

[00:10:54]So, I fall down.

[00:10:57]And while I was falling down cuz there was like kind of a circle and I was in the middle.

[00:11:04]When I was falling down, they pull me.

[00:11:08]Pull me down.

[00:11:09]So, I fall down now in the water and everything.

[00:11:15]And Jerry Machote was already on the on the on the floor and he was bleeding.

[00:11:22]In his mouth.

[00:11:24]Everywhere. He was bleeding basically.

[00:11:26]Do you know or did you see what happened One minute. One minute. Did you know what had happened to Jerry Machote?

[00:11:37]Oh.

[00:11:38]Is it something you are willing to tell us now or No.

[00:11:43]Um no. I get shot. I'm sorry. I'm going to correct this. I get shot before something happened to Jerry Machote.

[00:11:52]I get shot.

[00:11:54]Okay. Yes, I get shot. And I Okay, I was down now in the water in the mud, everything.

[00:12:02]Blood that was there already.

[00:12:06]So the there then there was I get shot three times.

[00:12:13]And then someone with a shotgun life round, not even rubber.

[00:12:20]This guy put that shotgun on my leg and shot that shotgun on my leg and break my leg. And uh And this is where I scream. I say, "My friend, you broke my leg." I I I scream. Okay. Um you know the >> [clears throat] >> Do you know the name of the officer who shot you this that time? Are you ready to tell us on on camera who it is? No, I don't know him. Okay. No, I don't know him.

[00:12:51]Okay.

[00:12:52]I don't know any of them. Um I don't know any of them.

[00:12:57]But if you ever see him, would you be able to identify him?

[00:13:01]No. No. No. No.

[00:13:03]No, I can't remember.

[00:13:06]>> [clears throat] >> Okay. Carry on.

[00:13:09]So now he shot my leg. He broke my leg.

[00:13:12]And while I was shot, some other [snorts] inmates was uh was getting beat up and shooting was happening cuz most of the shooting happened at my cell on the fifth.

[00:13:31]Most of the shooting on the second floor, I can I can say. Mhm.

[00:13:36]When these uh army officer come.

[00:13:40]So, you are shot?

[00:13:42]And at some point did you see Jerry Marchand? Did you see Jerry Marchand at some point?

[00:13:47]After you were shot? Yes. [snorts] Yes. And uh I was going to get to that.

[00:13:55]And uh they was beating up people beating up people and even my brother I see my brother fall down. So, as soon as I see my brother fall down I was on the floor, so I kind of crawl and Yes.

[00:14:28]I crawl I'll I cover him on top of him cuz they was trying to shoot him beat him up with stick. So, I take all.

[00:14:44]And uh they was piling people on top of each other.

[00:14:51]And they was piling even people start piling on my back that I know if I don't grab my brother to pull him out he's going to suffocate.

[00:15:03]People Prisoners suffocating. Suffocate.

[00:15:06]He will suffocate.

[00:15:13]>> [clears throat] >> Okay.

[00:15:21]So, when I pull him now some officers they armies they grabbed me again. They They rolled me over. When I rolled over, I rolled on top of Jerry Matjuda. I was like face My face was in his face like this.

[00:15:37]I see him down and he was like struggling to to to breathe. And there was a lot of blood coming out of his mouth, nose, and ear everywhere.

[00:15:51]And uh he stopped [clears throat] breathing when I was watching him in my face.

[00:15:59]And these guys, they were beating me beating me with stick beating me.

[00:16:05]So one of them tell me to stand up.

[00:16:10]I said, "I can't stand up. You broke my leg."

[00:16:13]>> [clears throat] >> And the same guy that shot me, he come with that shotgun in my head.

[00:16:22]He aimed it He touched your head.

[00:16:23]>> wanting to blow my head. Okay.

[00:16:27]>> [clears throat] >> The same guy who shot my leg or maybe the other one I don't I don't know.

[00:16:42]Came to my head cocked the gun and put it in my head.

[00:16:46]And tell me Not as nice. I'm I'm going to tell you he used other languages that we can't use on TV.

[00:16:55]>> [snorts] >> He tell me 1 minute.

[00:16:59]>> It's We've We've been ordered to to kill you, he tell me. We've been ordered to kill you.

[00:17:07]What?

[00:17:07]>> And you need to die tonight.

[00:17:10]1 minute.

[00:17:10]>> And while he was saying this 1 minute. 1 minute.

[00:17:15]Okay.

[00:17:17]Because you said there were certain words that is obscene and you wouldn't want to repeat on live TV.

[00:17:24]It's important that we know exactly what was said to you.

[00:17:27]But you can say that but we will ask SBC to mute the words you are going to say.

[00:17:35]So when they read it they muted it.

[00:17:38]It's mute? Okay, now you can you can say whatever they told you.

[00:17:45]Yes, is it my is it my leaking?

[00:19:58]>> Okay.

[00:20:00]Now that you said the the exact words they told you, um, we've unmuted, um, that bit of the evidence. Uh, now you're going to, um, go back to your evidence, but don't use any obscene.

[00:20:13]Unless there is a need later on, you tell us and then we'll mute it. Okay.

[00:20:20]Okay, carry on.

[00:20:22]So, yes.

[00:20:23]So, now when, uh, this officer was trying to blow my head off, one other officer in the group, he kicked the gun. When he kicked the gun away from my head, and the gun the gun goes off.

[00:20:43]Boom.

[00:20:43]>> [clears throat] >> So, that's when it was loaded.

[00:20:47]He wasn't making a joke.

[00:20:51]And now he start fighting with that officer now.

[00:20:55]He start telling the officer, "Is he your boss? Are you taking money with him?" Like that. Like this. They start arguing.

[00:21:04]Uh, um, While they are start they are arguing now. Which officer was it? Which officer was that?

[00:21:12]I think it was the army and the one in the black. Okay.

[00:21:17]Okay, go ahead.

[00:21:19]What?

[00:21:20]Sorry? Go ahead. Go ahead.

[00:21:24]Okay.

[00:21:25]So, now I'm on the floor and the the other people are beating me up.

[00:21:32]Even police officer um prison officers was beating me up with uh this big uh They was using harsh baton and uh and these big riot baton there. They was They even open my head and me I was covering in blood.

[00:21:53]And while these two officers are arguing, me in my head I was saying oh maybe that's finished.

[00:22:01]I didn't know.

[00:22:02]This is a start.

[00:22:05]The second group now, they grab me by my t-shirt there. They pull me back in the mud.

[00:22:13]They put me in the second group.

[00:22:16]And all these guys they were still at the front.

[00:22:19]Me for me it's like there was a special something for me cuz I can tell you I was one inmate that get most beat up.

[00:22:30]And I think they was They get really angry because I didn't I don't I don't pass out. They was expecting me to pass pass out. I don't And they was beating me up. The second group was beating me up with stick and everything. Beating me up. Beating me up. Beating me up.

[00:22:51]And there was even one lady.

[00:22:54]She shave her hair.

[00:22:57]Like like kind of like men down there.

[00:23:00]Really really skin and she have a ponytail on top there.

[00:23:05]And her with that stick, she hit me about five times behind my neck there.

[00:23:13]Me, I know I've done some self-defense.

[00:23:17]And uh I've done some training myself.

[00:23:23]I know this is a place where you want when when you need you want to break somebody's neck, this is where you go to hit.

[00:23:32]In your neck there, behind.

[00:23:35]Or paralyze someone, this is where you go. She hit me about five times.

[00:23:42]And I was on the floor and I looked up and I see her in her face.

[00:23:48]She look at me and she was shocked.

[00:23:52]When when when I look at her and the stick was in her hand.

[00:23:59]I just raise up. I didn't have enough energy to say anything or to do anything. My leg is broken.

[00:24:09]I'm already tired.

[00:24:12]Nearly out of breath.

[00:24:15]I just look at her and she stopped.

[00:24:20]When she stopped now >> [snorts] >> the third group grabbed me again.

[00:24:28]And now they start kicking. They was trying to kick me.

[00:24:32]Some get chance first to kick me in my mouth.

[00:24:35]But then I goes like this. So I I I block my head. I just stay like this.

[00:24:42]And they was kicking on my back everywhere. They was hitting.

[00:24:49]And then one officer he called me by my name. He was wearing mask.

[00:24:59]He come to me, call me by my name, and he tell me, he said, "Fabio, you need to get up there because they're going to kill you."

[00:25:11]I said, "Brother, I can't get up because my leg is broken."

[00:25:16]So, somebody, I think fireman or something, fireman, I remember, with a flashlight.

[00:25:25]He put on my leg and he sees how the bone was outside and everything and he goes, he really broke his leg really bad.

[00:25:34]And the guy try putting me on his shoulder, trying to carry me.

[00:25:40]But while he was carrying me, now I start feeling that I can't breathe. So, I hit him on his back and I tell him, I said, "I can't breathe, brother."

[00:25:50]I said, "I can't breathe."

[00:25:52]So, he put me on a table.

[00:25:55]There was a table there outside. I don't know where it come from.

[00:25:59]He put me on that table and I said, "Can I get some water?"

[00:26:06]And there was another officer that came and he must have who's there who who is this who is this and he said, "Fabio."

[00:26:14]And the guy said, "Hey, Fabio. Hey, you okay?

[00:26:17]You you you've been hurt bad, man."

[00:26:19]I said, "Can I get a bottle of water?"

[00:26:21]He said, "Yes." He run down.

[00:26:24]I don't know where he go.

[00:26:26]He bring me a small bottle of water.

[00:26:29]So, I drink. I start uh feeling okay.

[00:26:37]Like not okay, but start catching up my breath and everything.

[00:26:42]So, these two now, they're trying to help me like this, one this each side.

[00:26:48]They was trying to carry me down the stairs, but I was too heavy.

[00:26:54]So, they decide to place me in the corner.

[00:27:02]In the in the stairs going down in in the corner there. They tell me, "Wait. We'll get a stretcher for you."

[00:27:10]So, I stay there. I kind of take the leg that's broken.

[00:27:15]I pull the leg on me and press it hard cuz I can see a lot of blood going out.

[00:27:24]So, I press my leg hard on me to try to stop the bleeding a bit.

[00:27:33]I don't know if it works cuz it was dark.

[00:27:36]So, these guys they they go down to get a stretcher.

[00:27:42]And now I start seeing inmates coming down fast.

[00:27:47]And Shabani also was in the I forget to say this. Shabani also they place him in the stairs.

[00:27:56]And Shabani I didn't know what what was wrong with Shabani.

[00:28:01]But, he was telling me say, "Hey, we didn't do nothing. Why did we get beat up like this?"

[00:28:09]And he start telling me, "Well, I'm going to pray with you, my brother. I'm going to pray with you." He hold my hand say, "I'm going to pray with you, my brother." And one army officer was coming down and see that and he goes to Shabani. "What are you telling him? What are you telling him?"

[00:28:26]Shabani was trying to explain and he don't want to listen. He just grab Shabani and pull Shabani away from me.

[00:28:32]And And yes, the inmates now starts running the stairs like this. Some was jumping the stairs and and I was now in the corner trying not to let the inmate when they jump to jump on top of me.

[00:28:50]So, I I squeeze myself in the corner and press my leg and no inmates jump on me.

[00:29:01]And yes, these two guys come up with a stretcher after maybe 3 to 5 minutes.

[00:29:07]They come up with a stretcher.

[00:29:09]When they come up with a stretcher now, they put me on the stretcher.

[00:29:13]They carry me outside.

[00:29:16]While they was carrying me outside, just in front of the gate, there was all these big officers, army officers, police officers, all these big all they was standing there. It's like they was waiting for me.

[00:29:34]I will tell you why I feel like that.

[00:29:38]As soon [snorts] as I get in front of them, somebody army officer, tall guy, kind of skinny guy, he came, he hit the the one cuz there's one who was carrying me holding at the back and there was one at the back carrying me holding at the front to carry me.

[00:30:04]The one was carrying me in front, he hit his hand.

[00:30:10]I'm sure now.

[00:30:14]That stretcher is only like a plastic thing.

[00:30:19]I hit behind my head on that concrete.

[00:30:23]Cuz the the cuz the guy just let go now. He hit him so hard that the the stretcher just I So, now I fall down and hit behind my head. Boom.

[00:30:39]And now I see all the big officers, these ones with the phones, who was taking pictures, who was doing the recordings, and there was a camcorder.

[00:30:50]With with the army.

[00:30:53]The others with with cams.

[00:30:57]They was filming me going around, and I can see all of these big officers.

[00:31:06]They was just standing there.

[00:31:08]And they was talking in each other's ear.

[00:31:13]And this guy, the same guy who hit the ones bringing me to the ambulance.

[00:31:21]He came back. He grabbed that leg. That leg was broken like this.

[00:31:27]He grabbed that leg, and he shake it like this.

[00:31:31]He tell me we going to cut it. You will never walk walk again.

[00:31:36]And he even pull out his gun. He tell let me shot the other one now.

[00:31:41]We want to cut both of your legs like this.

[00:31:48]You not supposed to come out alive in there, he tell me.

[00:31:53]>> [snorts] >> And while while all of this was happening, I turn a little bit. I see the medic coming in.

[00:32:03]And I raise my hand like this.

[00:32:06]And they come.

[00:32:08]The medic now.

[00:32:10]Take me.

[00:32:12]Put me on a stretcher, and the medic wheel me up passing the SIU up the administration office.

[00:32:21]The ambulance was on top where there's the female female block there. The ambulance was in front.

[00:32:30]They put me in the ambulance, and take me to the hospital.

[00:32:34]And while all of this was happening.

[00:32:39]I see 1 minute.

[00:32:47]I see a lot of officers was there.

[00:32:50]At the ambulance, CINA was there, I recall.

[00:32:54]I think CI winner.

[00:32:56]They were all crying, huh? They were all crying, huh?

[00:33:00]And then I I remember [clears throat] And these are These are prison officers These are prison officers you're talking about.

[00:33:08]Prison officers, yes. Yes. Yes.

[00:33:11]They were crying when they see me coming like this.

[00:33:15]And I see some of the male officers.

[00:33:22]Yes, there was some of the male officers that was there.

[00:33:25]And they wasn't looking happy. They was not happy. I can tell you that on their face.

[00:33:32]They was not happy, but they couldn't say anything because they are not allowed to say anything. I know the way it is up there.

[00:33:42]Yes, and they take me to a Seychelles Hospital.

[00:33:46]As soon as I get to Seychelles Hospital, uh my leg, the nurse check it. They say no, they can't do anything.

[00:33:55]Take me to Victoria Hospital. So, they have to take me down to casualty at the main hospital in Victoria.

[00:34:05]Okay. And you are brought to Victoria and you get medical attention?

[00:34:12]Yes, and all and and the army, they put me the handcuff.

[00:34:18]I forgot to say this, huh?

[00:34:20]While I was in the ambulance from Mont Fleuri prison, an army officer come inside, two army officer come inside.

[00:34:27]They was wanting to come down with me in the ambulance.

[00:34:30]So, they put my hand handcuffed with the with the stretcher.

[00:34:37]So, the medics now tell them say there is no space for you guys to to to sit in the ambulance.

[00:34:47]So, I think they send one police officer with me.

[00:34:54]Yes.

[00:34:55]So, one uh prison officer.

[00:34:58]I can't remember who was in the ambulance with me.

[00:35:02]We go down to and Onverwacht I was still in the handcuff. They didn't want to remove the handcuff.

[00:35:08]The army officer escort the ambulance cuz I remember when I reached Onverwacht four of them with their guns was outside the hospital.

[00:35:18]They even walking the hospital to check on me.

[00:35:22]So, they say Victoria, they escort the ambulance down to Victoria.

[00:35:27]When I reached to Victoria now, these army officers was there and then they go. They left cuz there was police um white and blue officers that was I was at the hospital already.

[00:35:41]>> [snorts] >> So, now the doctor and the nurses, they came check me. The doctor say I will need to go to X-ray and CT scan or MRI, something like that.

[00:36:01]But, I can't go X-ray with the handcuff.

[00:36:04]Now, they're looking to uncuff me.

[00:36:10]There is no key because this handcuff only the military use, not the police.

[00:36:17]Trying to call the military, no one come.

[00:36:22]The police officers that was there, they have to get a bolt cutter to try to cut the handcuff off my hand for me to be able to do a x-ray.

[00:36:43]And while they was cutting it, that handcuff was cut like was going in my flesh and yeah.

[00:36:52]There was bruises, marks on my hands.

[00:36:57]So, they be able to cut it.

[00:37:02]So, I proceed.

[00:37:04]I proceed to do the x-ray and everything.

[00:37:08]Then come outside with the nurses, stitch my hand.

[00:37:14]And doctor surgeon was working that night, Dr. Brian.

[00:37:21]Dr. Brian O'Dwyer, I think the doctor.

[00:37:25]Cuz I know him because we go to school together.

[00:37:28]Okay. And uh Dr. O'Dwyer. And were you admitted into a hospital?

[00:37:35]Oh, yes. I was admitted for 1 year.

[00:37:38]Okay. And during the times that you were admitted >> 1 year.

[00:37:42]During the times that you were admitted in hospital, um any prison officers um or welfare officers from the prison visited you?

[00:37:53]>> [clears throat and cough] >> Yes, the first day there was a lot of officers and me.

[00:38:01]After was the first day I go to surgery.

[00:38:05]I go to surgery and coming out from the from the operation room from the OT coming out from there I could find some some officers.

[00:38:20]Man, I was there, I remember. Um from welfare.

[00:38:27]Yes. And my lawyer was there.

[00:38:33]So, at all times were the um the medics, the the doctors, and the nurses, were they waiting and giving you um medical attention?

[00:38:43]Or were they prevented in any form?

[00:38:46]Yes.

[00:38:48]Um Dufferin Ward they've done a very good job. Mhm. To say on on Dufferin Ward the staff they on Dufferin Ward [snorts] was really nice.

[00:39:02]The doctors was really nice. They use enough resource that they have to save my leg.

[00:39:10]The the the team at the hospital was really nice.

[00:39:15]Was just couple of nurses that I did have problem with them.

[00:39:22]Cuz uh I think I would talk off the now. If you want me to say it life, >> It's what is what you feel more comfortable with.

[00:39:35]Whatever you feel more comfortable with.

[00:39:37]>> say life. Okay. Yes. They was trying to give me wrong injection when I was there.

[00:39:43]And I even put complaint.

[00:39:45]I I put complaint about it. And they they did the the person who's in charge of Dufferin Ward have to stop letting them come inside my room where I was.

[00:39:56]Why was that? Cuz they was trying to give me wrong wrong medication.

[00:40:00]>> Why was that? What Why do you think they did that?

[00:40:06]I don't know if they're a part of finishing the work that started. Because another thing after 1 week or couple of days I was in the hospital.

[00:40:18]Three guys in their casual clothes come to the hospital after the incident 10:30 in the night claiming that they are CID officers when they was not CID officers.

[00:40:35]They was trying to get inside my room.

[00:40:38]And thanks God, there was a PSSW officer with gun walking outside my room.

[00:40:44]And inside where I was sleeping, there was one um prison officers that was inside who sleep with me inside the room every night.

[00:40:58]And they actually stopped them. Stopped the three person. Um these nurses >> And what is sad about it?

[00:41:07]We call um police central.

[00:41:13]The officer that was working that night know these guys by their name and surname.

[00:41:18]They call to the police station.

[00:41:21]They put the they they say that this happened. There was these three three guys cuz they work in different department. They wasn't CID.

[00:41:31]They say these three guys try to attempt to come inside Fabio's room at 10:30.

[00:41:36]And the next day I remember I make my lawyer come and I put in the attention of my lawyer.

[00:41:47]And my lawyer call Mr. Sagwa and tell Mr. Sagwa the incident. And Mr. Sagwa denying it and say that we are trying to make up a story.

[00:42:06]And for me, this is sad. Okay. When you need assistance with the police to report something as cruel as that.

[00:42:16]You you shouldn't the police don't want to hear anything.

[00:42:19]One thing um did these nurses were you said were um giving the giving you the wrong injections. Um did they at any point in time say the reason why that was being done?

[00:42:34]Not with me.

[00:42:36]They didn't say anything.

[00:42:41]They didn't say anything.

[00:42:42]Because >> [clears throat and snorts] >> Sorry, I have a You know, even at the hospital even prison officers you can see they are scared. Some of them are scared to talk to me.

[00:42:57]Some of them are Cuz there was oppression in that country.

[00:43:03]Okay.

[00:43:04]Um We have to accept it. There was like oppression on all the workers in the hospital. And especially when it comes from for me like even the surgeon. I'll give you an example. Maybe before you Mr. Superman When you get to 3 months Mr. Superman, before you you Yeah, before you proceed uh how how >> Okay, okay. Yeah. So, you said they were trying to give you a wrong medication or injection. Which is which?

[00:43:33]>> Injection. So, they were trying to give you a wrong injection.

[00:43:36]>> Wrong injection.

[00:43:37]>> Okay, so how do you know >> Yes, wrong injection. How do you know that it was a wrong injection?

[00:43:46]Yes, because I was long enough in the hospital to know my meds.

[00:43:53]What time do I get my meds? What kind of meds? Okay.

[00:43:57]You can uh Okay, so >> commission can ask the hospital.

[00:44:02]They will tell you. Fabio knows his time his meds.

[00:44:07]That yes, I know. So so you are >> And the color that was in the injection when she came the color was different from the the usual days. Okay. So you know your meds and the injection that was that was going to be administered on you is not is something different. So when you then raised this issue with the nurse who was about to inject this, what did the nurse say?

[00:44:43]I raised this issue with the Mr. Caesar.

[00:44:47]The one who was in charge of the female ward.

[00:44:50]And when I raised this issue Mr. Caesar take action because I don't know what happened.

[00:44:58]Because me I was in in my room.

[00:45:02]She never served me any medication.

[00:45:05]Okay. Sorry, before you continue, I need us to understand that episode properly.

[00:45:11]So you you complained to the person that was in charge and that is Mr. Caesar.

[00:45:18]Did you Yes.

[00:45:19]Uh Yes, Mr. Caesar. In charge of the female ward. Do you have the name the full name?

[00:45:27]Do you know the full >> No, as soon as you got to ask for Mr. Caesar, he's still working at the female ward.

[00:45:32]>> fine.

[00:45:33]Uh so you complained >> of the female Yeah, you you complained to to Mr. Caesar.

[00:45:39]And then and then he took he you said he took care of the situation. I just want to know in more detail how he took care of the situation and what happened.

[00:45:51]>> my lawyer a right letter to the CEO of the hospital.

[00:45:56]You get in contact with the CEO of the hospital. Okay.

[00:45:59]>> And I think write letter to the Minister of Health something like that also.

[00:46:03]>> Okay, yeah, we will >> of this Yeah, we we will do that, but we are talking to you, so I we want your version, because your version matters as well. All right, so we will get that bit from different You know, everything we ask, we get versions from different people. So, I want your version.

[00:46:21]Uh Okay. on what So, you reported to Mr. Caesar.

[00:46:28]Uh and just take us slowly.

[00:46:32]Because let me tell you what we want to understand. We want to understand things like, okay, so was there a conversation between Mr. Caesar and this nurse that was about to administer the wrong uh injection. Were you Did they come back to you? What what kind of discussions happened there? So, that's what we want to understand.

[00:46:53]So, so start from when you raised the matter with Mr. Caesar. And what did they say?

[00:46:59]>> happened in the night, and Mr. Caesar don't work in the night usually.

[00:47:05]So, the next day, I put it in the attention of Mr. Caesar.

[00:47:10]And cuz Mr. Caesar's office was outside my room where I was. And and um he never come back to tell me what did they discussed. But I see the the nurse never came back to to me to to give me any meds, cuz I asked Mr. Caesar, I'm not going to take any meds from from that particular nurse.

[00:47:41]Okay, so just so that we understand you what you are saying properly. So, a nurse tried to administer an injection on you which you were not familiar with, and you refused uh to check that injection.

[00:48:00]And the next day you reported to Mr. Caesar.

[00:48:05]And Mr. Caesar never came back to you.

[00:48:08]To, uh, tell you and confirm.

[00:48:12]Uh, that.

[00:48:15]You know, how he had dealt with the situation. But.

[00:48:19]Mr. You also told Mr. Caesar that you no longer want that particular nurse. To be administering medication on you. Yes.

[00:48:27]>> Right. And that particular nurse was removed. Yes. Right. But Mr. Caesar never came back. To.

[00:48:33]Give you feedback on how he had.

[00:48:37]Whether he had investigated.

[00:48:40]Um, I think he said only I've dealt with the situation.

[00:48:45]When I asked him.

[00:48:46]Okay. So, so those were the exact words that he said. That part he said.

[00:48:50]So, confirm to me. Those. Um, the next day. Sorry, Mr. Caesar. The same the afternoon. I asked him. I said, "Did you talk with that nurse?" And he said, "Don't worry. I've dealt dealt with the with the with the situation." Okay. Back to you, Commissioner. Yes. Just go back from where you left off.

[00:49:09]Earlier.

[00:49:14]You were talking about when.

[00:49:15]>> that's about it. Okay. When you were there in a hospital, um, any doctors or nurses.

[00:49:22]Said anything to you that would be out of the ordinary?

[00:49:28]Oh, yes. Um, I asked the doctor.

[00:49:33]Um.

[00:49:35]Where is, cuz in the x-ray.

[00:49:39]It shows there is two metal.

[00:49:42]In my, uh.

[00:49:43]In my leg.

[00:49:45]Left leg.

[00:49:48]And, uh, I asked the doctor. I said, "Where's the two bullet?"

[00:49:52]He tell me he throw it away.

[00:49:54]I said, "How can you throw evidence away?"

[00:49:59]I ask I ask him. I said, "How can you throw evidence away?"

[00:50:04]He tell me no one give me like tell me to keep it.

[00:50:10]If no one request, this is what we do.

[00:50:13]We we we throw it away.

[00:50:16]But in his report they he writes he write that he remove two he said the the the length of the of the metal that he remove.

[00:50:34]And at the hospital also, everyone was scared to say that I was shot.

[00:50:42]Everyone like if you mention shooting, no one wants to hear like you Like everyone can tell they are scared.

[00:50:52]Even the doctors.

[00:50:55]Even the doctors, you talk I talk with the doctors. I said, "Doc um what's happening? All these bullets cuz still in my leg, commissioner.

[00:51:06]I have over 50 pellets of shotgun still in my leg.

[00:51:12]And I have the x-ray to prove it.

[00:51:14]I can I can give you guys I can if you don't mind me showing the x-ray? You are allowed to Just a little Go ahead.

[00:51:23]>> But but don't don't >> Allowed? Yeah. But sorry Mr. Subramani, just just let's just keep it formal.

[00:51:31]It's commissioners, not guys.

[00:51:35]Okay.

[00:51:35]>> Commissioners. Yes.

[00:51:37]But please give us any evidence that you and show us any evidence that you you would like to share with us. So in this case because you we are conducting the testimony virtually, you would you can display the evidence. We make arrangements for us to get the physical copy. I'm sure some of the evidence we we do have.

[00:51:57]So, please show us.

[00:52:00]Yeah. So, there's something you wanted to show >> I have like this is my x-ray. Yeah. You can clearly see all the little spot. This is all the pellets still in my leg.

[00:52:13]This is shotgun pellets.

[00:52:15]The little dots there are the pellets.

[00:52:19]Yes.

[00:52:20]Yes, are the pellets still in my leg.

[00:52:26]And when I asked, my lawyer was asking for my medical report cuz we was wanting to get um we was wanting to get a second opinion with another hospital.

[00:52:41]Cuz it was clearly that uh Victoria Hospital do not equipped enough to do with deal with shooting.

[00:52:51]Because it says shots is not something that happened often.

[00:52:55]So, there was uh I can say a lack of uh tools really for the surgeon to to work with.

[00:53:11]So, I was asking my medical report.

[00:53:14]The hospital don't even was not allowed to give me my medical report.

[00:53:22]And I asked someone, "Why am I not getting my medical report?"

[00:53:27]They tell me, "We receiving order from the top not to give it to you." I say, "Who is the top? Cuz for me, Allah is the highest.

[00:53:40]So, who is more What the doctor you talking about? I don't know what doctor.

[00:53:47]I know I'm in hospital there is CEO, there is minister.

[00:53:51]I say minister, I say higher than the minister.

[00:53:54]I say okay, no problem.

[00:53:57]So I make my lawyer write produce something to the court constitutional court cuz I feel that my constitutional right was was getting abused, you know, kind of way because I know medical report you only pay 450 rupees at the Seychelles hospital and you get it in a week time.

[00:54:27]So for me I have to have to go to court and long procedure. Take me 3 months and a half for me to finally get my medical report.

[00:54:39]Because they didn't want me to see the x-ray to see that they still have pellets in my in my my legs.

[00:54:49]So as soon as I get this and the even the surgeon that was working, they tell me they say Fabio I'm going to be honest with you we can't do this job.

[00:55:02]You need to go foreign in a foreign country that's well equipped to do your operation because even my two artery my two in in in in a leg there is three artery.

[00:55:20]But me two in three two was cut completely destroyed.

[00:55:25]So for them to connect the artery I have to go overseas cuz we don't have equipments.

[00:55:34]Okay.

[00:55:35]But but I'll be right one minute. I'll be right in saying that the at the um, hospital or the clinic you went to, nobody ever refused you treatment.

[00:55:49]Treatment?

[00:55:50]Yes.

[00:55:52]No, no, no Tell me again. Don't shout at me, sorry. Okay. The Will I be right in saying that um, wherever you went, like in Seychelles I'm talking about, like to the hospital or you went first to the Asvhal Hospital, no nobody ever refused you treatment.

[00:56:12]No, no.

[00:56:14]No.

[00:56:15]Okay.

[00:56:17]At Asvhal, they only clean the wound with saline water.

[00:56:24]They check, they say go to Victoria Hospital.

[00:56:27]Okay.

[00:56:28]>> They will cuz they say you will need to go straight to OT. Mhm.

[00:56:34]And operation to straight to operation.

[00:56:37]And uh after some You were in hospital for 1 year.

[00:56:42]Is that correct? Yes. And uh Yes, correct. Recently um you've you are having treatment You've had treatment overseas. I Am I right? Yes, I did. Okay. Yes. And what is your condition at the moment?

[00:56:58]Are you recovered?

[00:57:01]No, no, no. I'm not going to be recovered in another 2 years, they've said.

[00:57:08]The treatment that I've got now, only to connect the artery cuz the artery was It's really important to connect for it to get the the blood flow um, in my leg.

[00:57:21]So, that I have to wait for a couple of months and then for me to go back for them to grow my bone back.

[00:57:31]Cuz now they there's 8 cm of bone they they remove cuz it's dead.

[00:57:41]Dead. So, they cut it out. They remove it. And Yes.

[00:57:47]I can't walk. I can't do anything. And Okay.

[00:57:53]Okay.

[00:57:54]Okay. Yes. Thank you. Thank you, Commissioner. Uh I have a a few questions for you, Mr. Superintendent.

[00:58:01]Uh And >> Hold this. These are follow-up questions. So, I would like you to be as as direct as as possible so that we can we can get as much as we can because the reason why we ask follow-up questions is for us to get clarifications on specific issues.

[00:58:22]Uh otherwise, the whole story now from your point of view, we have had it.

[00:58:26]Right?

[00:58:27]So, You mentioned that you were isolated. You went into the isolation You were placed in the isolation cell for 2 years.

[00:58:45]Uh Yes. You you Over 2 years. More than 2 years. You you When when I listen to you, you you And when I listen to your testimony, you sound like someone who has a bit of some knowledge about you know, your rights and and and and and and and you know, how you should >> do know my rights, yes.

[00:59:05]>> Yeah. So, do you And the prison Do you think that is normal?

[00:59:09]>> And the prison not. Do you think that is lawful for you Do you think that is lawful? That is lawful for you to be kept in the isolation cell for for over 2 years?

[00:59:21]Definitely not.

[00:59:23]But I did tell them one day you will answer up question with with be asked and you will have to come in front of a court and answer question because of that. I did tell them.

[00:59:39]They didn't want to listen.

[00:59:40]But I did tell them.

[00:59:43]Okay. So, is there any uh minis- Was there Was there any mis- from anything from the minister to authorize your detention in the isolation cell?

[00:59:57]To your Not that I know of.

[01:00:06]Uh maybe minister sent paper to the CP.

[01:00:10]But you didn't see >> Maybe. I don't know. Was there any medical examination?

[01:00:15]Was there any Were you examined by the prison doctor at any time during your >> was I'm a healthy person. I've been always healthy.

[01:00:27]Always doing sport. I love playing volleyball.

[01:00:31]I was always doing my sport. You can ask anyone at what time I pose it. I was really active with my volleyball. Even the officers, they know. Mhm. And they know I was quite a quite a good player, volleyball player.

[01:00:45]>> But tell us uh you know, from We know the isolation cell. We We have seen it.

[01:00:54]But we want your vision. We want your visions of your experience in that place. How How did you feel? What was your experience in that place?

[01:01:07]In the isolation cell.

[01:01:13]I don't know. I was okay.

[01:01:15]I was okay. I was You know, She human, you get used to things after all after a while.

[01:01:26]The first it was hard and then after you just get used to it. You just >> Okay. So So there are Wake up in the morning knowing that you're going to be sleeping here. So there's nothing there's no way you can go to say So >> whatever they want to do. Sorry. Um So I I understand we you know why you are saying as human beings we need to sometimes just accept reality and so forth.

[01:01:54]But but part of the reason why we are here is because we I mean the government acknowledges that there's a problem, right? And this is an opportunity to discuss the problem and see how the problem can be resolved.

[01:02:08]So we cannot resolve the problem if we don't know exactly uh how you felt.

[01:02:19]Uh I know you you were saying you're a strong man and that that's that's fine, but we want to know uh how the kind of conditions in this cell and what it what its impact on a person is because maybe tomorrow it will not be you. It will be someone else who is not as strong as you are. But we want to know what what is what what are the conditions in this cell and what does it make uh one feel?

[01:02:47]It's hard. It's hard. It's hard. If you don't call it mentally if you are weak, you don't condi- like condition yourself mentally it will disturb you.

[01:03:02]It will. Cuz me even now mentally sometimes I I I I'm not okay.

[01:03:14]It take me like was >> [snorts] >> when I was in the hospital for very long time. And and even when I was out from the hospital mentally No, you you you you're not you're not okay. You don't think like a normal person. You don't You know? Because most of the time you are learning that place.

[01:03:40]>> it will damage you mentally. Mentally it will damage you. Yes, it will.

[01:03:43]>> Okay. Okay. No, I I take your point. Um then you also mentioned that during this on the 5th of December um you know, there was about a 3-hour gap between the time the police came in.

[01:04:02]Uh um and the time when the first batch of the military officers stormed the prison. Am I correct? That you said there there was a 3-hour gap.

[01:04:18]Tell me again.

[01:04:19]So during your testimony, you said there was a 3-hour gap between the time the police uh came into the prison for the first time and the time that the first batch of military officers came into the prison.

[01:04:36]You said there was a 3-hour gap. Yes, yes.

[01:04:39]>> correct? Okay. So my question is what were they doing those 3 hours?

[01:04:48]What were the inmates doing?

[01:04:51]The prisoners, what were they doing?

[01:04:53]Can you describe their behavior?

[01:04:55]>> in my cell. Okay, you were in your cell.

[01:04:57]Did you hear anything?

[01:04:58]>> I was in my cell. Did you hear anything from your cell? No. [clears throat] Because where my cell is, it's difficult for you to hear and see Okay.

[01:05:08]what is happening in the prison unless you're on the floor for you to see.

[01:05:12]>> That is that is fine. I have heard you.

[01:05:16]Then you also mentioned that when the when you went to court for one of your appearances in court an officer a military officer gave you some intelligence. Of course I take it I take the point that you are not going to name the officer and that's absolutely fine.

[01:05:35]It's a very high rank officer very high rank.

[01:05:38]>> but yeah, but work with me a bit. So you said the officer said to you the big boss is planning to put you down.

[01:05:52]Did I hear you correctly?

[01:05:56]Yes. Yes. Now what did you understand by putting you down?

[01:06:05]The big boss wants to put you down.

[01:06:08]What what did you understand that to mean?

[01:06:13]Who kill you. Okay. So you understand it to mean to kill you.

[01:06:17]And Yes. Did this person tell you who the big boss is?

[01:06:25]But he have only one boss that he will answer with.

[01:06:30]And that will be the big boss.

[01:06:33]Yeah, but we want to know who this we can't assume.

[01:06:36]Who is the the big boss?

[01:06:40]The big boss is the ex-president.

[01:06:45]The the there are many ex-presidents in this country. Which one?

[01:06:51]Mr. Waveram Kalawan.

[01:06:54]Did this officer say that or that was your interpretation?

[01:07:01]No, I understand clearly what he was saying. You understood clearly what he was saying.

[01:07:05]>> Because there is some incidents Mhm. off camera.

[01:07:09]I will tell you. Okay.

[01:07:12]Exactly and I will name also.

[01:07:16]Names and you will understand clearly.

[01:07:19]What's happened why?

[01:07:22]So yeah, you have a right to give us information off camera and when we will always honor that right.

[01:07:32]But we we also want you to know that we have an obligation as a commission to make sure that.

[01:07:38]There is a public interest.

[01:07:40]In in these discussions.

[01:07:42]>> No, it is sensitive information.

[01:07:45]It is.

[01:07:45]>> [clears throat] >> finish? Can I just finish? But if you feel that it's sensitive information that can.

[01:07:52]Create or raise a risk of harm on you.

[01:07:56]We accept that you give us that in privately. But I just wanted to clarify that it's not a matter of you feeling comfortable.

[01:08:04]But it's a matter of you feeling that I cannot for my safety give this information. Then we will we will take that privately. So that's fine.

[01:08:18]Another witness who appeared before us and again you are free to.

[01:08:25]Indicate whether you want to answer this question publicly or not.

[01:08:28]But another witness who appeared before us um.

[01:08:33]As a commission.

[01:08:35]And then this is Mr. Dario Subramani.

[01:08:39]In his testimony he.

[01:08:41]Referenced that there's a personal problem.

[01:08:46]He said there's a personal problem.

[01:08:49]Between uh.

[01:08:53]You.

[01:08:54]And and and and and some.

[01:08:57]Some politicians in the country.

[01:09:01]Do you have personal problems?

[01:09:05]Sorry? His his his view his evidence was or his testimony that was that there is a personal problem between you uh him and some political authorities and he he says that is why you were attacked.

[01:09:21]Yes, it's true. What is the nature of the personal problem?

[01:09:29]Like I said, if you allowed me off camera, I was going to get to all this.

[01:09:34]>> That is fine. That is fine.

[01:09:36]Um Then you mentioned that when you were being taken to the ambulance uh there were military officers who were uh beating you up. Uh then there was another military officer who was saying uh I can finish your leg or I can break both legs. You will never walk alone. I mean Sorry, I take that again.

[01:10:08]You will never walk again, right? Uh Yes.

[01:10:16]And then there was a medical uh attendant or the ambulance attendant there.

[01:10:24]Would do you Would the medical Would the ambulance attendant be able to have witnessed this?

[01:10:33]Was he or she in a distance where they could have seen this happening to you?

[01:10:38]No. Okay. No.

[01:10:41]Um cuz when this was happening, like I said, he was doing it.

[01:10:46]I turned my head Oh. and I see the medics >> [snorts] >> was coming down, so I raised my hand Oh.

[01:10:54]on the floor like this.

[01:10:56]And this is when they see me down, they come. Okay. Was there any >> up. Was there any prison officer who might have witnessed this?

[01:11:08]Yes.

[01:11:09]Okay. Prison officer, high rank.

[01:11:12]High rank prison officer. High rank. Are you able to name them all?

[01:11:15]>> Cuz they was all standing.

[01:11:17]All the high rank officer, they was standing with a high rank office army officer and the police officers. They was standing together. Yeah, who are these?

[01:11:29]I mean, the army officers you said you don't know, but the prison officers, you know them. Who are they who witnessed this?

[01:11:38]Um the CP and and the rest.

[01:11:43]Um Sandu there.

[01:11:46]I'm not sure if Sandu.

[01:11:48]I'm not sure, but yes. So, the former Commissioner of Prisons.

[01:11:54]He Was there there there a name?

[01:11:58]>> Yes, he was he was with them. He was with them.

[01:12:01]Yeah, but I want to know the full name from you of the former prison. CP Janet Jones.

[01:12:08]Okay.

[01:12:09]Okay. CP Janet Jones.

[01:12:11]Um army officer. Okay. Yes. So, did the >> And No, no, I got you. Did the Did Did you see whether the former Commissioner of Prisons, Janet Jones, whether she tried to intervene and stop the beating?

[01:12:36]No.

[01:12:38]No.

[01:12:40]>> [clears throat] >> Okay.

[01:12:41]Maybe the question did you see or did she Did she intervene or she left it going on?

[01:12:51]All the officers were standing Uh never do anything. Okay. They were just there, some of them with their phone, like I said, taking picture, some video.

[01:13:03]Mhm.

[01:13:05]Yes.

[01:13:06]And then there was another guy with a video cam.

[01:13:10]Mhm. A guy and a lady with video cam.

[01:13:15]Okay.

[01:13:16]>> Yes. Okay, yeah.

[01:13:17]>> These cams that you can pull the thing at the side there.

[01:13:21]We got to that one. So, then you also mentioned that there is a doctor who attended to you and you asked the doctor where the evidence of bullets removed from your body had been taken to, and the doctor said, "I've thrown them away."

[01:13:44]Do you remember the name of this doctor?

[01:13:46]>> Yes.

[01:13:49]Yes, I I What is the name of this doctor?

[01:13:55]Um uh If you let me, I'll I'll say it on off camera.

[01:13:59]>> that's fine.

[01:14:00]>> Because uh this the group of orthopedic that was with me, they've done such a brilliant job that I will tell you.

[01:14:12]Okay. And till today, I will say a big thank you for orthopedic team in Seychelles.

[01:14:20]>> Okay. It was great, great >> You have You have You have answered my questions. Let me hand you over to Commissioner Tirant.

[01:14:29]Okay.

[01:14:30]Good afternoon, uh Mr. Subramanian.

[01:14:34]Um Good afternoon, uh Commissioner.

[01:14:41]You said that while you were at the prison at the hospital you received uh visits by prison staff.

[01:14:57]Am I correct?

[01:14:59]Yes. Okay. Yes. Yes. Okay. Now, would you would you be able to tell us who those people that visited you were?

[01:15:12]Almost Meena was the one mostly say in a month two to three times in a month, Meena from welfare officers um since I was day one till I was released.

[01:15:31]And then two times I get visit with Tony Joe.

[01:15:36]Tony Joe, Ivan, the security team.

[01:15:41]Cuz there was a little security team that uh the Ivan team uh that the little team that they come I think maybe two three times.

[01:15:54]Two three times. They um Ivan came three times. Tony Joe came two times.

[01:16:04]And the rest of the officers maybe two times. Yes. Okay.

[01:16:09]Yes. Yes. Um Now at the Seychelles Hospital there is a visiting visiting hours to visit the patients, yes?

[01:16:22]Am I correct?

[01:16:23]Yes. Okay. Yes. Now, did you receive any visits after the visiting hours?

[01:16:31]And what were the reasons that you you got those visits?

[01:16:38]From prison officers?

[01:16:39]Boss prison officers? Yes, from prison officers.

[01:16:46]No. No.

[01:16:48]So, you never got any visit >> Prison officers, these these ones I'm I'm saying, not the management.

[01:16:57]Um um most of the time that the when they come to the hospital, I ask >> [snorts] >> I ask them to tell CP.

[01:17:07]And uh CP and the one who's in charge of probation, I think.

[01:17:19]The lady here.

[01:17:22]I asked them to come, but they never come.

[01:17:25]I write them letters, they never reply back my letters to ask them to come and visit me to see my condition cuz I was wanting to for them to help me to go overseas, for them to talk with the Minister of Health, Minister of Prison.

[01:17:44]But they never come.

[01:17:46]Okay, so So, you would confirm that during the year that you spent in in Seychelles Hospital you never got any visit from the Commission of Prisons and the other person that you named, the Remind me what what was the other >> Yes, I will confirm that. Sorry?

[01:18:13]Yes, I will confirm that CP George never come and see me, not even one time.

[01:18:18]The Minister of Prison never come see me, Mr. Fonseca.

[01:18:22]The Minister of Health the lady, she never come to to visit me.

[01:18:28]I've only see the CEO of the hospital one time when I was first came at hospital.

[01:18:38]He came to look at my leg.

[01:18:42]And I never see no one again.

[01:18:46]Yeah, and what you mentioned >> Apart from Meena. Yeah, but you mentioned that the other person from from which one that never came to see you?

[01:18:56]That the lady you said the lady from probation?

[01:18:59]>> Probation. Probation officer.

[01:19:02]What's her name? I can't remember.

[01:19:05]>> [clears throat] >> Elsa. Elsa.

[01:19:08]Elsa. I asked for Elsa to come.

[01:19:12]Okay. And even when even when Meena come, I sometimes [snorts] I start getting frustrated with with Meena. I say, "You not You not You not telling telling Elsa to come and visit me." And she grab her phone and she call. Elsa always find a reason why she's not able to come to see me.

[01:19:42]Okay.

[01:19:44]Um one other thing is you said you noticed a very skinny army officer that hit the stretcher that you were on and that you fell and banged your head.

[01:20:02]Do you know Do you know the name of the skinny officer?

[01:20:09]No, I don't. You don't.

[01:20:11]Okay.

[01:20:12]No, I don't.

[01:20:12]>> Uh again, you you stated that you saw a lot of high-ranking army officers standing to the together with CP George.

[01:20:21]Yes? Am I right?

[01:20:23]Yes.

[01:20:24]>> Where were Where were they Where were they standing?

[01:20:30]In front of the entrance after the the last gate to come to prison, inside there.

[01:20:37]Inside there, in the Yes, in front of prison, of the entrance of prison. Is it They were standing there. Is it outside the gate by gate 13 or inside >> Yes, I I don't know the name of the gate. If it's 13 how they call it but in front where the doctors doctors could the clinic is, down the stairs there, there's a gate there. They was inside the prison. Okay, so that's that's >> Not outside. That's outside of the VPU block.

[01:21:20]Yes, VPU block, but they was inside close to the mill block. Okay.

[01:21:24]>> Inside there, inside in the ground.

[01:21:26]Yeah, so you said that there were high-ranking army officers.

[01:21:31]How did you notice >> Yes, yes.

[01:21:33]>> How did you notice they were high-ranking officers? Were they carrying ranks on them at that time?

[01:21:41]Yes, yes, yes. This is how I know.

[01:21:45]Okay. And and did you did you notice >> in their uniforms.

[01:21:49]>> Did you notice any of them? Do do you know any of them?

[01:21:58]Off camera.

[01:21:59]Please, if possible. Okay.

[01:22:03]Uh Now, you said that you were put in this close confinement for two and a half two and something years, yeah?

[01:22:17]Yes, yes.

[01:22:19]Uh were you given a reason why you were put in there in the first place?

[01:22:28]No, there was no reason.

[01:22:30]But I continue asking.

[01:22:34]When I ask, they say I'm high-risk prisoner.

[01:22:41]I say, "How do you clarify high-risk?"

[01:22:47]I asked this in the record office.

[01:22:51]And they said that if you've been convicted more than two to three person, you get clarified as high-risk.

[01:23:08]I said, "Okay.

[01:23:10]So, I'm high-risk.

[01:23:12]No problem."

[01:23:14]But I remove myself after 2 years and something, it happened an incident when CP George was coming in power.

[01:23:25]And what I posted was going to take uh to be civic.

[01:23:33]She and some police officers, CID, from Osu Ayal, officer CID, Mhm. Osu Ayal or Osu Bay, CID officers with some other police officers, they just one afternoon, around maybe 4:30 to 5:00 p.m., they raided where I was staying in that little block with a warrant, cuz I asked them. I said, "Do you have a warrant or something?" They give me a warrant.

[01:24:13]On the warrant says um signed by the Chief Justice.

[01:24:19]The warrant says on it that looking for electronic device.

[01:24:26]So they search.

[01:24:31]They search everywhere. They only get themselves one pen drive that have movie on it.

[01:24:42]And one pen drive that was approved by the commissioner that that was commissioner sent us that approved cuz if you need a pen drive, you can just go to Mr. Sentamu and CP Sentamu and ask him for a permission and and then they discuss him and Elsa and Mr. Elsa and maybe that there's a body discussed.

[01:25:14]If you are allowed to and they allowed me to have my pen drive. So they took it.

[01:25:19]They they never She never give me back my pen drive after I say.

[01:25:23]>> [snorts and clears throat] >> Now um you said that on on this occasion at the hospital there was medication that was going to be administered to you that you saw was not your correct medication. Is that correct?

[01:25:50]Yes. Yes.

[01:25:52]>> Now, would you describe this as a foul play uh towards your person?

[01:26:05]You asking me personally how did I feel?

[01:26:09]Even if maybe it's not correct, I don't know.

[01:26:13]Are you asking me how did I feel?

[01:26:17]Not you. When this happened >> What If this was happening Who do you think was behind?

[01:26:26]You must have an opinion. Who do you think was behind this uh issue of administering you with the wrong medication?

[01:26:39]Commissioner, the whole time I was in the hospital, I was scared.

[01:26:44]And I tell my doctors I tell everyone that I can tell, my family members, everything, because I was I was scared. I was scared they was going going to come and finish what they couldn't finish at Bota Ipose.

[01:27:06]So, when this happened I personally, maybe I'm wrong I personally feel that maybe she's part of the team who wants to terminate.

[01:27:22]Okay. Um now, you you you know one of the rights of a prisoner when he's inside the prison it's a right to association uh with other people.

[01:27:40]When you were put in this close confinement were you allowed to talk to people, to see people?

[01:27:56]While I was in the in the that unit, that place, yes, yes, I I get my visit like everyone all the prisoners get.

[01:28:04]Okay, but did you So, you were you were not allowed to associate yourself with other inmates?

[01:28:13]Yes, I was not.

[01:28:15]Um >> [clears throat] >> But the what is funny about it is they allowed me to go and play volleyball.

[01:28:24]That was the only thing that was allowed me to do, to play volleyball in training.

[01:28:33]Yeah, they allowed me to train volleyball and after finish training volleyball go straight back again.

[01:28:39]Okay. So, you you associated yourself to uh other inmates.

[01:28:46]Yes, cuz uh first they what they didn't allowed it and uh I think inmates that was in charge of sports they say Fabio is quite a good player, we need him in our team and we were were were were and now they take consideration.

[01:29:03]Okay, now one one last question.

[01:29:05]>> Actually CP CP before uh Janet George accepted cuz when Janet George come she stop.

[01:29:16]She stopped sports. [snorts] Okay, now now I'm go I'm going to uh ask you my last question I suppose.

[01:29:26]Uh maybe I did not hear but if you could clarify uh you talked about all the the the incidents that was happening in the prison.

[01:29:35]At one point you mentioned the name of Mr. Enesta who used to come and Yes. and uh watch TV in the cell.

[01:29:46]Uh but I don't remember if you spoke about what happened to Mr. Enesta or if you witnessed anything that happened to Mr. Enesta.

[01:29:56]>> I didn't.

[01:29:57]Yes, I did. Yes, I did.

[01:30:00]Yes, I did.

[01:30:02]Um while I was getting beat up in front.

[01:30:08]In front.

[01:30:11]Before before I get shot, cuz Mr. Nesta me I was at the back in my cell and him he was at the front. While I was coming out, the officer already start beating up some inmates and Mr. Nesta was one of the person who was getting beat up.

[01:30:32]And uh I pree that was prison officer that was there. Um uh prison officer.

[01:30:44]I forgot his name.

[01:30:48]But he was there. There was a prison officer.

[01:30:52]And he was trying to stop.

[01:30:56]He was trying to stop cuz on his face I can I can I can I can tell he was unhappy.

[01:31:04]He was unhappy about the situation.

[01:31:08]He was trying to stop the army officers or yes, army officers.

[01:31:17]And it was uh they they beat up with Mr. Nesta quite bad, yeah.

[01:31:23]They they beat him up quite bad. And me and Mr. Nesta was really close. Did you see him? Did you Did you see Were you able to see the condition of Mr. Nesta?

[01:31:36]When I was in the hospital, they put me on a bed like this on that side and the from the other side where I was looking, Mr. Nesta was was there.

[01:31:47]And uh he was struggling in the night to get sleep cuz he was in a lot of pain. Yes.

[01:31:58]Mhm.

[01:32:00]Okay. Now, you you said when you were in hospital, when you were admitted in hospital, uh you were looked after by Dr. Brian Adonai.

[01:32:12]Brian Adonai, yes.

[01:32:13]>> Yeah. Was he your doctor that looked after you all through your your your stay at the prison?

[01:32:23]At the hospital. Yeah, yes.

[01:32:27]Um yes, he was part of a team.

[01:32:31]Cuz there was a team of orthopedics, and he's part of the team of orthopedics.

[01:32:39]Yes, he's he's part of the of the team.

[01:32:43]Cuz every day the orthopedic teams, they come and see me in the morning every day. They come and see me in the morning, about five of them, or sometimes more.

[01:32:56]Okay, thank you, Mr. Suleman Mnguni.

[01:33:02]I've I've done.

[01:33:03]Okay.

[01:33:05]So, thank you very much. I think now we will ask the media to evacuate, but before that, we have a duty to remind you that you have a right not to be victimized for having testified before the commission.

[01:33:21]Uh and if at all you receive you you are threatened or you are victimized in any way, please report to the commission so that we may take appropriate action. It is a criminal offense for anyone to victimize you as retribution for giving your testimony.

[01:33:43]Uh so, I'm now going to ask the There's no Okay, so first clarify that there's no broadcast hearing tomorrow.

[01:33:58]I think we'll advise on the on the on the program uh later. So, I'm now going to ask the media and everyone in the room to evacuate so that we may get into the next stage of the testimony.

[01:34:17]>> [music] [music]