Inside the Mind of a School Shooter | The Warning Signs Everyone Missed

[00:00:00]Because when I'm standing in the parking lot with eight dead bodies in the building behind me when we had a threat of a school shooter in one of the high schools uh in New York in New York.

[00:00:10]>> In today's episode of Rise Above, we sit down with Brandon Vaughn. In 2018, Brandon was arrested in upstate New York for making terroristic threats and planning the unthinkable. In December of 2024, we sat down with federal detective Tom Smith, who arrested Brandon.

[00:00:30]This interview is for educational purposes only. We decided to have Brandon come on the show so that we could identify early childhood signs as to what would lead someone to plan or even think about doing the unthinkable.

[00:00:46]So, if we're able to prevent one catastrophe from happening, we've done our job here at Rise Above. Brandon talks about being on SSRIs at a very young age, the lack of love in his household, and some of the trauma he endured. Let's jump in.

[00:01:08]>> If you could speak to the people that you terrorized in that town, what would you say?

[00:01:14]I would say I would say that I am extraordinarily sorry. Sorry. I do regret what I do did in in the moment. I enjoy what I what I was doing. But as I've gotten older, I'm like, you were just being a straightup [ __ ] Like you shouldn't have done that. But at the time, I was enjoying what I was doing. Well, I appreciate your honesty saying like in the moment you were enjoying it because you were getting adrenaline hits, >> but also too >> I have a daughter. If I have a daughter that's in high school and someone's doing that at the high school, that's going to traumatize.

[00:01:51]>> Yeah, I know.

[00:01:52]>> Like and and you know, other parents could have turned to drugs to al >> kids that went to your school. I mean, I'm sure they don't have data on it. But kids who could have, >> you know, picked up a drug addiction because they were in fear for their life.

[00:02:09]>> I take 100% responsibility for for that.

[00:02:12]I understand why everything happened. I really do.

[00:02:15]>> At when I was younger, 18 or 19, I thought it was just not a big deal. I thought they just blew it out out of proportion. But as I've gotten old, I've as I've gotten older, I more and more recognize what I did was 100% wrong.

[00:02:39]Brandon, I appreciate you coming on.

[00:02:41]>> Thank Thank you.

[00:02:43]>> Tell us a little bit about early childhood. You're from Orange County, New York.

[00:02:47]>> Yeah, which is like an hour and some change from from the city. From the city. Um, I would say overall I was raised in a middle class family. Not too wealthy, not not too poor. Um my I have one sister but she's she was 16 when I was born. So because of the age gap she's really not a sister. She's more of like an aunt. So in theory I did I was raised as an as an only child. My father my father was born in I born in Ireland and he moved over here in 1985 something like that. And my mom was born here, but both of her parents were from I from Ireland.

[00:03:29]>> So I'm completely completely Irish. Um, >> growing up, I was very from a from the youngest I could remember, I was always I I had a really bad start started when I was a kid. It's was way worse than it is right now. So growing up, I never really I was afraid to talk I was afraid to talk to people because of that. And also being an only child when I was a kid, I never really had any pra any practice in so socializing because my dad's whole family lived in Ireland. So I really didn't have a relationship with with any of my cousins. My mom's side of the family. I don't really know that well. So really it was just me and my sister. But like I said, when I became when I went to school, my sister was already in college. So I really didn't have a s a sibling at that point. Uh my father and my mother were both al were both alcoholics.

[00:04:25]>> My father my father who is still with us has been sober for about 15 years now.

[00:04:31]My mom passed away in 20 20 summer of 23. No some in summer of 24 while I was incar incarcerated for my probation vi probation violation.

[00:04:45]Um she pretty much drank herself to death. Um, so that's about it. Um, not nothing really too traumatic happened in my my early life. I just feel like not being able to connect with people at such a young age did affect me as I got old or older. And I was raised Catholic.

[00:05:10]I went to Cath I went to Catholic school my whole my all my years except in high school and high school. I went to my local pub. my local p my local public school.

[00:05:21]And when I went to my local p local my local public school, I I was very I would go days without talking to people. I would never I would never go up to somebody and talk talk talk to them at all. And that was mostly because of my starter from when I was a kid.

[00:05:49]Um, so I'm sure I came across as very odd to people just because I was so quiet.

[00:05:56]And in high school when I was a freshman and a sophomore, I played high school sports. And then towards the end of my sophomore year, I got hurt. And then after that, I was just never the same.

[00:06:07]And then that's when my life really started to go down downhill.

[00:06:12]Before we go into the downhill spiral to go back to early childhood a little bit.

[00:06:18]So your sister was 16 years older than you.

[00:06:21]>> She was 16 when I was born. Yeah.

[00:06:23]>> So you don't have that much in common when you have a 16y year age difference.

[00:06:28]>> You had this stutter.

[00:06:30]>> Yeah.

[00:06:31]>> Um your cousins, you weren't really hanging out and playing with them. Did you have social groups >> growing up? One thing I've learned in my own recovery is that you can't do this alone and you don't have to. I know that firsthand. I went through inpatient treatment at Karen Treatment Centers and it changed the course of my life. That's why I am proud to announce that I have partnered with Karen. For nearly 70 years, they've helped people and families not just break free from addiction, but actually heal and transform their lives. They're in network with all major insurance providers and same day admission is available. So if you or someone you love is struggling, don't wait. Call Karen at 85535213.

[00:07:19]That's 855-35213.

[00:07:24]Help starts with taking that first step.

[00:07:26]Growing up, I went to I went to a Catholic elementary school was wasn't that large. There was probably 20 people in my grade. They my parents thought that that would be better better for me have having a closer um a smaller school size. From K through fifth, I really just had one friend and that's about all I can remember. Um I still played sports at that point. I would say it was pretty pretty normal. But as I've gotten older and I talked to my sister, she says, "You had a lot of what she thinks was develop mental delays, not in not intellectually, but just so socially."

[00:08:10]>> Um, and then, you know, I later on in life, I was diagnosed with high high functioning or autism, >> but that didn't come into late late later in life. So, I wouldn't say I had a social circle. Well, I had one or two close friends that I can reme I can remember that I was close to.

[00:08:30]>> You were playing sports as a kid, too, though, right?

[00:08:32]>> I play basketball and soccer. Yeah, >> basketball and soccer. Were you hanging out with the kids on? Because I feel like no matter >> what's going on when I played sports, if someone, let's say, had a stutter or someone >> was a complete stud, right?

[00:08:50]there was always that included. Were you hanging out with guys or was it something that you avoided?

[00:09:00]>> Growing up playing basketball, I played in my local cath my local cath my local Catholic school league and I played CIO.

[00:09:08]>> Um my CIO team was mostly kids that went to my local p my local public school. So I didn't really go to school with them.

[00:09:17]So I didn't really have a relationship with them outside of it. And then my local high school, my local college, my local Catholic elementary school, there was really only one or two kids that played on that team that was in my my grade.

[00:09:30]>> Got it.

[00:09:31]>> So as I remember, I did have friends. I wasn't a complete learner, but that didn't really that loner stuff really didn't really start to come out until m until middle school.

[00:09:42]>> Yeah. But from K to five, I would say it was pretty normal from my perspective that I can remember. But from day one, my sister and my parents both said that I I had I had issues.

[00:09:54]>> And you know, they've dived into all all all the issues.

[00:09:59]>> Mhm.

[00:09:59]>> And then one thing just to discuss, my my dad and my mom, and I I've said this to myself countless times, I hope it makes sense. My mom and my dad did not like each other at all. They only stay married a because they're Catholic and B for me and my sis me and my sister.

[00:10:17]Growing up, I think I've seen my dad hug my mom one time. So, growing up in my household, I never saw human connection >> my whole life and I until I was like 14 or 15. So, I really think that that had a negative aspect of how I view things on the outside world.

[00:10:35]>> Yeah. Were your parents showing you love as their child?

[00:10:41]My mom, from what I've gathered, my mom as a child, she would do everything for me, everything. So, yes, she loved me, but she was overbearing and she would do everything for me. My dad, who was still going through our alcoholism, he worked a lot and you know, I I love him. Um, but he really wasn't he really didn't connect with me.

[00:11:05]>> Yeah.

[00:11:06]Now growing up with two if I if my math is correct it was up until about 10 years old 11 years old when your father got sober.

[00:11:15]>> Yeah.

[00:11:15]>> So you know zero through 10 years old you are living with two active alcoholics.

[00:11:23]>> Did you know it at the time or is it hindsight 2020 kind of thing learning later in life?

[00:11:28]>> My mom not so much. My father yes. My mom, she was she was a vice vice president at a nonforprofit. She was a very functional alcoholic.

[00:11:40]My dad worked in yellow. He worked in yellow freights. Um I do vaguely remember him have having issues with drinking. My sister got the brunt out of it just because she was growing up when he was still drunk. But my father, but my father later on in life where I got it was he had a lot of leg issues >> because of working in yellow freight. So a lot of times he would be very hard to deal with because and he had his own issues.

[00:12:13]>> So he wasn't the easiest person to deal to deal with. And also my father my father I'm 25 my father's 74 >> and he was born in Ireland. So it's it was a completely different time.

[00:12:27]>> Completely completely different world.

[00:12:30]>> Were your parents ever physical with you?

[00:12:32]>> My dad? Yes.

[00:12:33]>> Yeah.

[00:12:34]>> Yes.

[00:12:35]>> Um my mom? No. But my dad? Yes.

[00:12:37]>> Uh for disciplinary reasons.

[00:12:41]>> Some mixture of that and a mixture of just him want to take stuff out on me because he had a tough life too. Um, but it was a lot of and I'm sure it wasn't easy with him not having a good relationship with his wife, but a lot of times he would just take things out on me.

[00:12:57]>> Yeah. So, you didn't know what version of your father was going to come home that way.

[00:13:01]>> Yeah.

[00:13:02]>> So, that you had said earlier on, you know, I didn't go through that many tra traumatizing events when I was young.

[00:13:09]>> When I was a child, yes, >> I would say you did.

[00:13:12]>> Yeah. I might not just rem >> I'm not making excuses by any means for you, but those are traumatizing events.

[00:13:18]Um, okay. So, as you explained, you went to Catholic school up until high school.

[00:13:24]So, now high school hits, ninth grade.

[00:13:27]>> You're now in a public school with all new people.

[00:13:31]>> You played sports your freshman, sophomore year.

[00:13:35]>> Was it an accident that had h an injury that had happened sophomore?

[00:13:38]>> I I I tore my ACL.

[00:13:41]>> Okay. So, you you tear your ACL.

[00:13:43]>> Yes. Now you had said after the injury you're no longer playing sports things start to kind of spiral downward.

[00:13:50]>> Yes.

[00:13:51]>> Can you take us through what had happened?

[00:13:54]>> So from when I was even in middle school I always was into crime shows always. Um that would probably be 80% of what I would watch. Um I really wouldn't watch any anything else. Um, I would say in middle school it was probably a even then it was probably unhealthy obsession with true with true with true crime. Um, and I always knew now I I would never say this to a mental health worker, but I've always had empathy problems with people. And like I said, I think that's because when I was a kid, the only type of affection that was shown in my household was towards an towards animals. And I have an extreme empathy towards an towards animals. Like if I watch a video of the worst thing being done to a human, I really won't feel that much. And I'm not proud to say that. But if I see a video of someone kicking a dog, I will have nightmares for a week. And the only psychological thing that I can think of is when I was a kid, that was the only type of love that I saw was cats and dogs.

[00:15:05]>> Wow.

[00:15:05]>> Not between my parents.

[00:15:08]>> Okay. And like I said, my aunts, my uncles, I would never see them. So I wouldn't see their connections e either.

[00:15:17]>> So I think that's really what caused that. And then when I was in high when I was in high school, I had I was always I was always like awkward like people would have to beg me to talk to them and I just wouldn't be com I wouldn't be comfortable to do it.

[00:15:39]There would be days where I would go a whole day without speaking to a p a person which is not healthy and it was very tough on my parents.

[00:15:48]Um and when I start when I started high school, my sister who graduated from college was still live was still living with us and she m and she mar she married a state trooper. So that was really the first time in my life where I saw two people connected but that wasn't until I was like 14 or 14 or 15.

[00:16:11]So that in high school was really when it started to go downhill. But e even when I was in middle in m in middle in middle school. I I didn't realize this at the time, but as I thought about it and I've talked to one or two people that I went to school with, they've all said that you were an odd person. I don't necessarily reme remember that, but now that they've described it to me, I think I I think I was. Mhm.

[00:16:38]>> And also I was allerg chubby until I was in like seventh grade.

[00:16:42]>> Mhm.

[00:16:43]>> So that did not help. But then once I lost weight that kind of helped, but I still had the stutter and my parents were trying they they were doing everything to try and help me. But it just wasn't really work work and at all. And then high school they had great hopes for me and then it just did not work out.

[00:17:03]>> Were you put on any kind of medication?

[00:17:06]>> I was on when I was a kid. My sister who's a who's a teach was a teacher, she always thought that I was on the spect on the spectrum.

[00:17:18]My parents, I think, were somewhat in denial about it. I could be wrong about that, but I started seeing mental health workers from that I can remember from third or fifth, fourth grade. And at that point, you're really too young to be placed on med um medication. I wasn't placed on medication until late late med late late med late late middle school and it really wasn't any heavy duty stuff. The he the heavy duty stuff I'm on now like for example if you if you took a morning my morning medication you would be asleep for a week. I'm on very heavy duty meds right right right now but I'm so used to them it doesn't affect me as much as if somebody just took it. What were you put on in middle school?

[00:18:04]>> Middle school, if I recall correctly, an ADHD medication that I can't remember the name of it.

[00:18:11]>> And Lexapro, I'm sorry. Uh, Viveance, uh, Aderall.

[00:18:16]>> Not that. Not that.

[00:18:17]>> Okay.

[00:18:17]>> Uh, it was an ADHD medication for kids.

[00:18:20]I don't think they prescribe Aderal to kids. I could be wrong about that. And then I was on an anti-depressant that I want to say was pro was pro was Prozac.

[00:18:30]>> SSRI. Yes. Which I could be wrong about that, but I know I was on anti-depressant at that time and I was seeing the hour of piss probably once or twice ace or twice a week.

[00:18:40]>> SSRIs are serious medications. For someone in middle school to be put on an SSRI, that's >> Yeah.

[00:18:48]>> Yeah. That's that's eye raising. So, okay.

[00:18:52]>> You are now in middle school. I'm sorry.

[00:18:55]You're now in high school. Take us thing through things when they start to spiral. when it starts to go downhill.

[00:19:02]Yeah. Well, sports went out the wind went out the window >> for me >> and that was also really hard on my mom and my dad. And this was when my mom started to drink really, really, really bad. Like super bad. And well, like I said, I had this obsession with true crime. And then my junior my jun my junior year was when I first and I hate to say this but this was when I first started to specifically research mass mass shootings like ex like like extensfully and I would watch countless documentaries on on on them and that was really the beginning of the end for me was when I really start started to to do that. That was my junior year. So that was late 20 late 2016, early early 2017.

[00:19:56]And also at this time was when my sister and my dad, my sister and her husband moved out. So that that connection I had with those two were gone now.

[00:20:06]>> Were you starting to idolize some of those school shooters?

[00:20:11]>> Not at that point. That came a couple months later. Couple months later. Not not when I first start. Well, not when I first started. No.

[00:20:18]>> Okay. Take us through the incident and what had happened from the beginning until the end.

[00:20:27]>> So I was at an extreme low point of my life. Um at that moment of time I was on an ADHD another ADHD medication. It was a patch that they would put on my right here like on my on my upper thigh and it would I will be fine at school but then once I came home I would just plummet and then that's when I started to really research coline which I'm not proud enough to say. It got to the point where that was the only thing that gave me comfort.

[00:21:01]Um it was the only thing I really looked forward to. Um, and it really started, there's a specific doc documentary.

[00:21:09]Uh, it's called Col Coline High School Massacre Zero Hour. It's like 50 minutes long. And I've watched that so many times. I could say the whole document documentary just from me from memory. And I haven't watched that in years. And then once I watched that documentary was when it really really went down downhill.

[00:21:35]And then that's when that led to my old my ultimate saying what I did on the Snapchat and then it all going downhill from downhill from from there.

[00:21:45]>> Now was something going on at school in the sense that were kids picking on you?

[00:21:51]Were kids bullying you?

[00:21:53]>> Yes. Not so much my senior year, but my s my sophomore my freshman, my sophomore, and my junior and my junior my junior year. Yeah. Okay. It was half that and more just I I I isolation. Like they always say when there's a shooting, oh, he was bullied.

[00:22:09]>> Yes. But I also think it's more has to do with isolation than than anything else. Yes, a lot of them were bullied, but I think it's more so had to do with isolation. And it was you seeing these people, you were isolating, but you were obviously still passing them in the hallway and seeing them at school. Yeah.

[00:22:25]But you were like, was it was it like jealousy of them that they were socializing? Was it I want to be like them, so f them. And then was there instant resentment that was built up?

[00:22:36]>> Yes. The specific the main victim in my case, he me his family and my family had some h some had some history. because his uncle was engaged to my mom back in like the I think they got engaged late se late late7s early early 80s and he he would hit my he would hit my mom bad and she broke off the marriage and he right after she did that he jumped off of a bridge he jumped off of the tapenzee bridge >> tapenzee bridge y >> and his whole family blamed my mom for it don't ask me why but that was expl explained to me that his whole family blames her for that. So from day one, he did not like he did not like me. And you have to think he went to public school his whole his whole life.

[00:23:28]>> Mhm.

[00:23:28]>> So I just came into fresh. I didn't know anybody and he knew he knew he knew everybody everybody.

[00:23:36]>> So it was also just me being kind of jealous of their social interactions with people.

[00:23:44]So can you take us through when you actually start planning this?

[00:23:47]>> The planning probably happened like according to them it was like three or four months before June of 2018.

[00:23:54]>> Okay. And you were going online and you were dropping hints.

[00:23:59]>> Hints. Yes.

[00:24:00]>> Okay. What were some of the hints that you were dropping online? The first the count my first count was I said something about if someone left if someone left a note in the school bathroom saying that someone was going to shoot up the school. It was not it was not a threat. It was a question that they turned into a threat. And then when I sent that they it was in a group chat and one or two of them reported it which as they should.

[00:24:28]>> I won't blame them for doing that one bit. I did at the time I was mad at them but since I've matured I they did the right thing and then that was when local police department got know got know got notified and I'm at school and I had to go see the superend superintendent about something and when I was at the superintendent's office on my way back the security person said stop someone has to escort you back to school and subconsciously I probably knew what it was for.

[00:25:04]I but I was hoping it wasn't. I went back and went speak to one of the vice prince vice principles and she said, "You know, the police department wants to talk wants to talk to you. You have to leave."

[00:25:16]So, I go into the special I go into the detention room for my dad to pick me up.

[00:25:21]And my dad was pissed. He was livid. And he didn't really know the de the d the details.

[00:25:29]And then I went to my local police department and I spoke to the local detective and he talked to me for like an hour. And at that moment of time, he didn't really take it too ser seriously.

[00:25:41]I think he told my dad that he didn't think I I was a d I was a danger. Um but then again, at that m moment of time, he didn't have access to my search history.

[00:25:52]He didn't have access to my house. He didn't really have access to anything except what I sent. M.

[00:25:58]>> So, he sent me on my way and then I came home and probably like a week or two later, I hear a knock at the door and it's the local FBI, not Tom Smith, but his part his partner who was a girl. Um, she came and she spoke to me with the local detective. She first she talked to me and she said, "Can I can I go through your phone?" And I said, "No, I didn't want her to go through my phone." I said, "No." And then she said, "Oh, I can get a search warrant to go through your phone." And then I go upstairs and my mom gave her permission to go through my my phone because she paid the phone.

[00:26:33]She paid the phone phone bill and she went through my phone and she saw a couple things that you know probably were were wor worried her um but then she said Bren she gave me her number and said I I want to help you. Now I don't know if that was true or not. I think it was at the time. And she said, "We talked to kids. They said, "You won't do something like something like like this. Um, don't ruin your don't ruin your your life."

[00:27:03]And then they left. And then that's when really my parents probably should have taken a little bit more serious than they did. I don't know if my mom was just in denial or if my dad was too My mom was probably in was probably in denial and my dad was I don't really know what my dad was thinking at that time. Like I said, he was sober. He left me. I just don't know what was going through his his mind.

[00:27:29]And then they left and I could I continue to research stuff. I continue to write things. I continue to do everything.

[00:27:40]And then that's when I sent the second me the second message to one specific girl who report who reported it as she should. And then that's when it really started to become serious from that point forward. Um what was that message?

[00:27:59]>> What what would you do if someone shot up to the school?

[00:28:02]>> So you send that message, they get back in contact with you. She reports you.

[00:28:08]>> Yes. What happens from there?

[00:28:10]>> She reports me. I don't know the exact day if she either reported me Wednesday or Thursday and then that Friday I went to school. She was not there and I didn't I was so obliv so oblivious at this age. Um she didn't go and then I went on a trip with my mom to mayor to mayor to Maryland and then that's when they really started to do in they really started to do interviews. They spoke to my whole ne my whole ne my whole ne my whole neighborhood and then they talked to my neighbors. I don't know if they had access to my search history or what I was doing on my phone at that moment of time because they didn't have my phone yet. I'm sure they had some type of nature and then that's when they did a real first search search warn of my house. They had FBI, ATF, some branch of the mil, some branch of the military was there, lo local PD was there. Pretty much any threeletter a a agency you could think of was was there >> and they did an entire search. Were you arrested at that point?

[00:29:16]>> I was arrested. Yes, I was charged with I was arrested by the FBI by that moment of time. I was just charged with this charged by this by the state. What were your charges that they were?

[00:29:26]>> My state charge was a class E felony of of making a ter making a terroristic threat. It was a post 911 law.

[00:29:36]>> Um and then I was charged with two counts of falsely reporting an incident for my first message and my second one.

[00:29:43]My third one was the one that was what would you do if someone shot up the school was the the ter the terror terroristic threat. So when they go and they go to your house, they search your house, what do they find in your house?

[00:29:58]>> They So my mom was drive My mom was driving and she was highly intox highly intoxicated at the time. And I knew I knew me saying that there was a pipe bomb in my room would get them off the property and they would stop talk stop talking to her. And I loved my mom at that moment. At that moment in time, I didn't want anything to h happen to her.

[00:30:25]Um, so I said there was a pipe bomb, which there was not mostly there was two reasons. Well, no, three re three reasons why I did that. The first the first reason I did that was I was concerned about my mom and I and I knew they would stop talking to her. They would get her off the pro off the pro off the pro property. Um, also the second reason I did that, I'm not going to get into spec specifics, but there was one or two things on my property I didn't want them to find. And I knew me saying that it would they would f they would f they would focus on that and stay stay away from it, which thank God they thank God they they did. And I can admit that now the they can't really charge me with anything. It's so late.

[00:31:11]Um, and then that's when they searched my house. They they did find things I wrote. They did find things I they found two or three phones that I had. Um, they found a lot of stuff that I wrote.

[00:31:24]>> Detective Smith had said that there was a manifesto in there.

[00:31:28]>> Was there, like I said, I don't I don't remember everything, but there was Yes, there was something that I wrote that was very that was very that was very dark.

[00:31:39]>> Yeah. I don't remember at all, but yes, they they're most dead. There it was.

[00:31:44]>> Okay. So, you get arrested that day.

[00:31:47]They do the search warrant.

[00:31:49]They go You go to jail.

[00:31:51]>> Yes.

[00:31:52]>> How long were you in jail for?

[00:31:53]>> My bond was $250,000 $250,000.

[00:31:59]I was probably in jail at that moment. I think I was there for two days. I got arrested late Sunday. I got released Tuesday.

[00:32:07]>> Okay. Yeah. So you get out and they come back again for you.

[00:32:13]>> No. No.

[00:32:14]>> Okay. What happens next then?

[00:32:15]>> I get out. They I get out Tuesday. I meet my lawyer on Wednesday. My parent my parents got in contact with an attorney. Um on Thursday they came back for a search warrant. And this was when they brought in everybody and their mother. They they went through all my pro propert. And the thing that was concerning them was I lived on t on on 10 a 10 10 a 10 acres so they had a lot to search. So they brought in they brought in everybody and I would never forget I I was sleeping and I heard them knocking. Search won't open up the door.

[00:32:54]Tom Smith grabs me. I had to sit down with my parents and they searched my house. They searched every square inch of my house.

[00:33:01]Um, even at that moment of time, I was nerv I was nervous and my dad was nervous and my mom was just she was sit like this the entire the entire time.

[00:33:12]>> And you weren't arrested that time, right?

[00:33:14]>> No, I I was not arrested.

[00:33:16]>> So, when you were arrested the first time and you were put in the car, uh, Detective Smith had said that you had said to him while in the car something along the lines of, "Do you want to hear what my plan was?" I don't recall doing that. Yeah, I might have done that. I don't recall doing that. But it does not matter what I said because when they arrested me, the first thing I said was, "I want a lawyer." That was the first thing I said. And the one thing that that's true that you see on TV TV shows about crime, the second you say you want a lawyer, they're supposed to stop talking. They're supposed to stop talking to you. And anything you say afterwards, they can't use against you.

[00:33:56]So, he can say that, but he couldn't use that in court because I said, "I want a lawyer."

[00:34:01]>> Right.

[00:34:01]>> I don't recall saying that. I might have just because of my state of mind, >> but I don't recall doing it.

[00:34:07]>> Got it. Well, I think if you engage in conversation with them after saying you want a lawyer, I think, not that they can use it in court against you, but if you say something and then they find something based off of what you said, >> Yeah.

[00:34:18]>> then it could be held against you in terms of like whatever evidence is found.

[00:34:22]>> Yeah.

[00:34:23]>> Okay. So they do that search warrant on the th that Thursday. What happens after that then?

[00:34:28]>> That Friday I checked into a mental health house mental health hospital uh one that was in Westchester.

[00:34:36]And that was when that was the first time in my life where I was on my own. I had to be I was in charge of you know I had to get up. I had to take care of laundry and all that. And that was a rude awake a rude awakening for me. And I'm still, you know, I'm still digesting everything that's happened. My parents are still digesting everything that happened. And they're continuing to do re they're continuing to invest investigative me. The one thing I never understood was they knew I was in the house in the hospital. They knew they they knew that and they still had security at the grad at the grad at the graduation.

[00:35:17]I maybe they thought I I had help. Maybe they were just trying to make a show of it, but that was one thing that never really made sense to me. And I was in the hospital for like a month, month and a half. And then that's when I got put on somewhat heavy duty medication.

[00:35:37]>> Well, I mean, I could understand the security at graduation.

[00:35:41]um whether you're in an institute, a mental health institute or not. I mean, you could leave at your own free will unless it's a psych ward, but you're only in a psych.

[00:35:50]>> It it was a psych word. I could not leave.

[00:35:53]>> Oh, okay. Well, regardless, I think >> a threat, you know, couple months after uh after Parkland. Yeah.

[00:36:00]>> I I completely understand them taking precautionary measures and >> heightening security around graduation.

[00:36:08]>> So, okay. Was there anything written in one of those notes or anything that you had that they found that said about graduation?

[00:36:17]>> No. Okay. So, you then get out of the mental institution.

[00:36:23]>> Yeah.

[00:36:23]>> What happens from there?

[00:36:24]>> This was when when I got out of the mental health institution, my lawyer told me, "You're charged by the state.

[00:36:33]You're facing eight years, but you're >> How many?" I was facing aged years >> but yes but I was an eligible youthful offender at in the state.

[00:36:46]>> So I could have not I could I could have got one or two years but when I got out I would have no record and that was what was going to happen in in the state. They later later on they offered me six months and a while.

[00:37:05]Um, but that was at the stage. And then when I got out of the mental health institution, something in me just said, "F f this." And this is really when my conduct became so much worse. Um, I don't know what happened. I don't know if that night got arrested triggered something in me. But from that point forward, I just thought that everything was a game.

[00:37:28]I didn't care about the con the con the consequences one bit. The consequences never came to my mind. It never came to mind how this was going to affect my f my family my sis my sister's a teacher and my brother and my brother-in-law is state trooper and I didn't just care. I didn't care at that m at that moment in time. Um and I that was when I always say I got five years for what I did after the fact. I didn't get five years for what I did. If I had stopped after the my state arrest, I would have got six months in a while. But I continued my conduct for another 10 for another 10 for another 10 10 months.

[00:38:12]>> What did you do for those 10 months?

[00:38:14]>> I in those 10 months I so I got out of the mental health institution in a in August. I got a phone which I shouldn't have. Um I got a I I was allowed one. It wasn't a bail violation but I shouldn't have one. and I sent some more concerning m concerning messages on online and then I went back to the mental health institution. I was there for probably three or four weeks. They discharged me in November. I was arrested fed f I was arrested by the feds.

[00:38:49]>> Okay. So you after the 10 months of when it became federal, >> I got arrested by the feds in November and I was I was let out out on bail.

[00:39:02]>> Okay.

[00:39:02]>> What was what was your bail?

[00:39:04]>> It my both of my parents just had to sign off. Okay.

[00:39:07]>> But I had a bunch of bail conditions which I didn't have in the state. I had a bunch of bail bail conditions that I had to >> when you were released in November of 2018.

[00:39:17]>> Yes.

[00:39:18]>> Okay. Did you you had to go home? Yes.

[00:39:21]>> Was it house arrest?

[00:39:22]>> No, I had a curfew. I I had to be home by like 8 or 9.

[00:39:25]>> Okay. Did you break any of those?

[00:39:29]>> Yes. I was completely out of control for the last month of December. I was completely out of control. Um up to that point, I would do everything in my power just to taunt them, which at the time, like I said, I was 18. I was just I didn't care. I didn't care one bit. Um the consequence never even came to my came to my mind. I was complet completely out of control. Um the one thing I'm like super not proud of that I did during that time period as you know that I didn't do that I almost did. We had a kid that died in a car accident that same that same year. And when he died in the car accident, he had like a he had like a mom memorial set up and I wanted to vandalize it. I didn't know this came from hole in the wall. I think I was just so mad at myself. I had a hammer and everything and thank God I didn't did not do it. All I did was there was a Call of Duty disc. All I did did was grab it and I threw it in a in a river. But that was really the only smart decision that I made. I don't know what stopped me that that day, but something stopped me. And I would I continue to research. I continue to write things. I continue to call 9 call 911 and play gunshots in the back in the background. I was just I just didn't care.

[00:41:00]>> Was it real gunshots or was it like a recording?

[00:41:03]>> It was a recording.

[00:41:04]>> Okay.

[00:41:06]So, you eventually get taken in.

[00:41:09]>> No. So, what happened was, and this is another thing that was messed up about it, they tried to re revoke my bail in January of 2019. They had me dead to rise and it got denied by the judge.

[00:41:23]Don't ask me why. I went to went to went to jail March of 2019.

[00:41:29]>> Now, you took a plea deal or did you take >> I took trial. I took a plea deal, which I should not have. I should have went to trial. I should have fought them. I more than likely would have lost, but there was arguments to be had. My lawyer just did not want to make them.

[00:41:44]>> Okay. So, you take a plea deal.

[00:41:50]>> Yes.

[00:41:51]>> Okay. What were your final charges at the end and how much time were you?

[00:41:55]>> My final charges was just transmitting a threat in state commerce. They always wanted to try to get me on something more, but they were never a they were never a a a they were never able to.

[00:42:07]They they they told my lawyer. So on on on my phone, I had a vid I had a video of me and my girl girlfriend at the time have have have been sex. I was 16 and she was a when she was 18. It was on my phone and they actually threatened to charge me with with chai with chai with child porn because of that. And I looked at them, my lawyer looked at them and said, "How are you going to charge him but not her?" So that's why they couldn't do they couldn't do that. They actually threatened to charge me with that because they knew what they charged me with wasn't very serious at all. It was a zero. It was a zero. It was a zero. It was a zero to 25, which they don't really mess with.

[00:42:53]So the whole time they were trying to get me on something else, but they were never able to.

[00:42:58]>> Okay.

[00:42:59]>> So I plead guilty to a transmitted and a threaten into state um commerce >> which is uh z to five >> and then they ended up giving you 5 years.

[00:43:09]>> My guidelines were 24 to 30 months but the judge can go above that and that's what he that's what he that's what he did.

[00:43:18]>> Okay. So he gave you a full five years in prison.

[00:43:21]>> Yes. Okay. And when I originally got incarcerated, I was in the f I was in the federal detention center. That same one where they have the president of Venezuela, the weagion is where um Maxwell was. It's a very high-profile place. And to think about it, I'm 18.

[00:43:40]That moment at that time I was 19. I was barely anything more of a child myself.

[00:43:47]And that's where I went when I first got in car incarcerated.

[00:43:52]>> How long? And that's downtown Midland.

[00:43:54]>> That's down. No, that's downtown Brook.

[00:43:56]That's downtown Brooklyn. It holds mostly It holds all the federal inmates from Long Island, the city, the city, and the first couple upstate count upstate counties.

[00:44:08]>> Got it.

[00:44:08]>> So, it was tough.

[00:44:10]>> How long were you in that prison for?

[00:44:12]>> Thank God I was there for 10 months. I got moved to my local county jail.

[00:44:17]>> Okay.

[00:44:17]>> But during those 10 months, besides people that molest kids, I don't wish that upon any 18, n 19year-old, what I went through in those 10 months.

[00:44:29]>> What did you go through there?

[00:44:32]>> I was a target because of my age and how I looked. Um I thank God I was never raped or anything like that. I just was so broken and I was so I I I So I get there. I walk into my unit I walk into my unit and I walk into my unit and people just look at me like why is he here? And everyone assumed I was a child molester just because young white what else could he be in year four?

[00:45:10]So I go to my cell and the first thing I look at is I see this big this big black dude said this is not going to work me being in there cuz he thought I was a child molester. I walk in there. I talked to him and he's like what are you in here for? And I told and I told him that and he said can I have your name? I said sure. Cuz I had nothing to hide because in in jail just as long as you're not a child molester they don't really care >> what you're in there for. just as long as you're not that they don't care. So I gave it to them and then that's when he looked me up. That's when he told people and then that's when for first couple weeks people kind of left me alone but I'm sure people talked about me pe people would say things to me in in passing just because you know my v my vulnerability at that time and we had a bunch of high-profile people. The first person I really connected to. Do you do you do you remember do you remember Silk Silk Road?

[00:46:13]That guy Ross Alber was the first person I really talked to that when I was and at the time I had no idea what Silk what Silk Silk Road was.

[00:46:22]>> I only found that out who he was after the fact.

[00:46:25]>> He was the first person I really talked I really talked I really talked to.

[00:46:30]>> Did you you had a passing with R. Kelly, right?

[00:46:33]>> Unfortunately. Yes. Was that in the same prison in Brooklyn?

[00:46:36]>> It was in Brooklyn when I was in the shoe. I was bunkers with him for one night and that was the longest night of my life.

[00:46:42]>> Can you tell us what happened that night and what the encounter was like? I was in the shoe for about a month. I was sleeping and the day before me and my cellmate who was also 19, he had severe mental healthish issues. He threw a piss on the CEO and the CEO took him to suicide watch. And because I was his cellmate, he the CEO thought I had something to do with it. And she said, "I am going to get you. I'm going to f I'm going to f with you." And I'm sleeping and I'm half asleep and I see them put somebody in the cell with me.

[00:47:18]And it's a big big black dude like R.

[00:47:20]Kelly is big. He's not a small small dude. So I look at him, I'm like, "Oh shit."

[00:47:25]And because of what she said to me earlier, I thought he she purposely put someone in there that would try to hurt hurt me. And like I said, I was born in 2000, so I really didn't know who R.

[00:47:36]Kelly was. So I wake up and at the time I had a shank. I had it was a [ __ ] shank, but I it would still do some damage. And I pick it up cuz I think she put him in the cell to do and I had no idea who he was. I thought he was just a gang member or or something.

[00:47:52]And then the way they brought him in, I quickly realized he was somebody that was highprofile just because they had a whole line of people that brought him in. And then he sat down and he said and he said to me, "Aren't you too young to be in here?" And at the time I had no idea who he who he was. And then we just talked and he just was a weird a weird dude. Very odd. And he would always say he said I had no idea how young young they were. And that's what a lot of child molesters say. They always say I didn't know how old how old she was >> and they full of [ __ ] nine times out of 10.

[00:48:27]>> Yeah.

[00:48:27]>> So that was a very scary just because of what happened not because of R. Kelly but because of what happened beforehand.

[00:48:35]That was what made what made it very very scary.

[00:48:39]>> Yeah.

[00:48:39]>> And then the next day they moved them.

[00:48:41]Don't ask me why but they moved them.

[00:48:44]>> Okay. So then you get transferred to your county.

[00:48:46]>> Thank God. Yes.

[00:48:48]>> What was Thank the Lord. What was that experience like?

[00:48:51]>> The reason so and that was also the thing with my plea deal. They said if you take if you plead guilty we will move you to your local account jail and that was part of the reason why I plead guil plead guilty because I just wanted to get out of there.

[00:49:09]Um, so I get moved to my local count county jail which is think and then I get moved January of 2020, two months be before co before co hits and this is after I plead guilty but I still haven't been sentenced yet.

[00:49:26]So I'm there and it's just a completely completely different world. Um because it's a count it's a county jail. It's not a federal detention center. So, it was a lot better. And also at this moment, at this point of my life, um, any person, any white person that goes to jail, it will make them it will make them racist towards towards blacks. Um, just because of the damics of their how who they're around. Um, I'm not proud to say that. That's just how it will affect you. Um, I wouldn't say all of them, but I would say n 90% of white people that go to jail will become will become race become racist. So, once I got moved to my local county jail, um, that was how those 10 months really affected me the most was I became race I became racist towards towards blacks.

[00:50:27]But when I got moved to my local county jail, it was run by all white people. So it was a lot easier for me.

[00:50:36]>> And even and even at MDC, I had many people that worked there that felt bad for me because of my s my situation. So I had two or three guards that looked out for me. I had one in particular who who had a son that was about my age. So, she felt in a way her motherly instincts came out and she did a lot to help help me. Um, she did something she wasn't supposed to do, but she really helped me. And that was one thing throughout my incarcerating because I was so young, a lot of female officers, their motherly instincts came out and because I wasn't in there for something really, really bad, they were willing to help me.

[00:51:22]So then when I got moved to my local county jail, it was a complete my mom and my dad could come and see me every day. I could get countless snacks and stuff that I had to eat. So it was I went to school. So it was completely different. It was like it was like I went home.

[00:51:39]>> Yeah.

[00:51:40]>> That day when I got moved, that feeling that I had was the best feeling I've ever had in my life was when I got moved to my local county. Yeah. That was the best feeling of my life. Were you able to go to therapy while you were in the county jail? Were you able to?

[00:51:54]>> In my county jail, yes. When I was in the federal detention center, no. Like I said, I was taken off all my meds. So, I was detoxing off of meds. I've never done drugs. I' I've never drank, but being on all those medications and suddenly being taken off really negatively affected me. But once I got moved to my local county jail, that's when they put me on a couple of my meds.

[00:52:16]I talked to somebody once a once a week which was nice.

[00:52:20]>> Yeah. Now, when you were when were you released from jail?

[00:52:26]>> I went home early on and the first step act. I got released December of December. No, I got released January of 23.

[00:52:34]>> January of 2023. Okay.

[00:52:38]Now, what was one of the craziest things you witnessed in either prison or the county jail?

[00:52:48]The craziest thing that I witnessed?

[00:52:55]Um, I would say the craziest thing that I personally witnessed was somebody got stabbed and lost and lost an eye. That was at the p that was at the prison that I got sent to. Um, but I heard things that like I was next to somebody who cut his balls off when I was in the the the the shoe cuz when you're in the shoe, he pull go crazy go crazy. And so that was probably the craziest thing that I was face to face with was somebody got stabbed from behind and he lost a eye and you saw the eye on the the the floor. That that was the craziest thing that I saw up close and person up close and personal.

[00:53:40]>> Okay. So you are released >> now.

[00:53:45]What was it like coming home for the first time >> when I came home? So, when I was in my local county jail, I honestly, and I'm one of the few inmates that will ever say this, I think I had it too easy, too easy in my count in my county jail. I was pretty much I had a tablet. A couple of the nurses did stuff for me that they should not have done. That made my life a lot e a lot easier. And then when I got sent to my p when I got sent to my prison, it was the it was the easiest prison in the whole country.

[00:54:20]>> Um, you went to the county jail.

[00:54:22]>> County jail. And when I got sentenced, I went to a low low security p. Low security ps.

[00:54:27]>> It was that in New York?

[00:54:28]>> No, it was in New Jersey.

[00:54:30]>> Got it.

[00:54:30]>> Fort Dicks.

[00:54:32]>> Okay. So, you were in Fort Dicks. Yeah.

[00:54:34]>> And you wrote out your sentence there?

[00:54:35]>> Yeah, I was in my county jail. I was there for a couple a couple a couple months after I got sentenced. What happened was I was supposed to get sentenced February of 21.

[00:54:48]I go for my sentencing here hearing.

[00:54:53]The courtroom is packed. I had like 10 victim impact statements and then the judge says, "Okay, I'm going to delay this because I want to hear from the mental health provide mental health providers."

[00:55:06]co hits the course get closed and I'm pissed off because I have a chance to go home because I can get time time served.

[00:55:15]So I'm pissed. It's not like I was facing all this time and then co then co dies down and then I eventually get sentenced. I get sentenced I I agreed to get sentenced on the phone which I should not have done but I didn't really have much to lose because I already had two I already had two years in. So once I get sent once I get sentenced, the judge threw threw the book at me, which honestly if I was a judge, I would have thrown the book at me too, >> which is I feel like it's good that I can say I I can say that.

[00:55:49]>> Um, and then once I get sentenced, I'm in my county jail for like five or six months and then I get moved. They say, "Brand Brandon, the US mar the US Marshals wants you." I go to the airport. I'm like, "Bro." And think at this moment this moment of time I'm still 20 and I must solve 20. Like I I didn't hit puberty until I was like 15 or 16. So I was still going through all the stage all the stages and I'm like bro where the [ __ ] am I going? I see 300 300 inmates. I see planes buses all over all over the place. I'm like where where the [ __ ] am I going? And I it so what determines where you go is points. So you get points for your age, you get points for your crime, you get points for your history. I got eight points just for my age because when you're 18 to 20 25, they give you eight points just for that. And I then I get seven I get seven I get seven points for my crime. So I'm at 15 points, which is you have to go to a medium secure security prison. And that's just the points that I know. I don't know if they added points. I don't know if I'm going to go to a pen, a pen, a pen, a tent. I'm like, "Bro, just don't send me to a pen.

[00:57:03]A pen is completely different ball game.

[00:57:05]Just please don't send send me there."

[00:57:08]And I had no idea where I'm going. They say vaugh 86342054 and they put me on on on a plane and I'm like, "Fuck, bro. Where am I going?"

[00:57:18]Like, so then they fly me to they fly me to Oklahoma. when I'm in Oklahoma.

[00:57:25]Actually, this was the I can't believe I forgot this. I actually saw one person get killed get killed when I was in Oklahoma.

[00:57:36]And then when I was in Oklahoma, I got transferred to and then I went to some place in me in me again because during this time period, you have no idea where you're going cuz it's it's a secure it's a security thing. You're in trans you're in transit. So you have no idea where where you're going and you're around a bunch of people that have been down for 10 or 15 years that have life to do. So, it's just a lot of sad people.

[00:58:00]And then once I then then I go to fail then I go to Fley which is another federal detention center in Philly and then that's when I get put on my fine my final bus and on half of the bus is going to Fort Dicks low and the other half is going to a USP in fail Philly which is one of the one of the most serious one of the most hardcore prisons in the c in the in the country. And I'm like, "Fuck, that's where I'm going."

[00:58:28]Because in my mind, I that there's no way I'm a low security point. There's no way I can think of 15 points right off my gate. So, I'm on the bus and that was this I was so scared.

[00:58:38]>> Mhm.

[00:58:39]>> Um I was so scared. And then once they get four dicks, they they save on and I got off that bus so fast cuz I thought it was a mistake. I was like, "Let me get off this bus before they real they realize the mistake that they made."

[00:58:54]Um, I get there and this is still doing co still going co and I walk into the dorm and they and they start and they start call they start call calling me baby b baby Ian and I'm like who is this Ian dude? Come to find out it was Ian Beck. Some >> Ian Beck.

[00:59:15]>> Yeah, it was Ian Beck. I didn't know that at the time.

[00:59:18]>> He was at Fort Dick.

[00:59:19]>> Yeah. I I I I I only put that together once I got out and everybody kept telling me, "Oh, you you remind me of Ian Beck." Because he went to jail when he was 18 or 19 when he when he when he was young, too.

[00:59:32]>> He had already been released.

[00:59:33]>> Yeah, he was released. I had no idea who he was. I only put two and two together after I got after I got out.

[00:59:40]>> So, once I get a four digs, I'm like, "Bro, this [ __ ] is sweet." Like, this [ __ ] is too easy too easy.

[00:59:47]Um, I get there, there's phones, there's alcohol, there's pretty much anything you you can think of is there.

[00:59:53]>> So, once I get there, I'm like, it was like a it was like a,000 pound weight got off my should my shoulders and I'm thinking this is the hardest part is behind me. It really was. I had two and a half years in and I had two years left.

[01:00:11]>> So, okay, you get out of prison. What is life like for you once you get out of prison? I got released early on the first on the first step act.

[01:00:21]So I got released about a year and a half early. I only did three and some change. So once I got out, my victims were like cuz they didn't think I was going to get out for another two years.

[01:00:34]I didn't think I was going to get out for another two years, but because of first step act stuff that I did, the day I got out because there's just so much trauma with going to jail, especially as young as I was, the circumstances. Once I got out, I was like in a completely de completely different world. If you had offered me the day I got out to go back, I I I would just because of how much how hard it was >> for for me when I first got out. And I will always tell people like the 18 or 19year-old of me, he's gone. I'm a completely different person. Now, I'm not saying I'm 100% re rehabilitated because I still have some demons in my head that I'm trying to work work through. I'm not 100% rehabilitated. I hate it. I still have a lot of work to to do. But that to me, that 18, 19 year old is dead. He's no more. But once I got out, it was still very traumatizing. Like my first night, I ran from my house, I was somewhat su suicidal. Um, and then I went back into another mental health hospital.

[01:01:49]half after that.

[01:01:52]>> So, what was it?

[01:01:56]You had put those threats out.

[01:01:58]>> Yeah.

[01:01:59]>> Uh you wrote those things that caught the attention of a lot of people.

[01:02:03]>> Yeah.

[01:02:04]>> And it put a lot of fear through that entire community.

[01:02:06]>> Yeah, I did.

[01:02:08]>> Um what was it? Because you you got in trouble, you were arrested, you got out on bond, and then you kept acting up again and again and again.

[01:02:20]>> Yes.

[01:02:21]>> Was it you trying to get attention? Was it you? What was it about putting fear through other people?

[01:02:28]>> I think I was just lash I think I was just lash I think I was just lashing out.

[01:02:34]I think that's what it was. I don't think it attention was part of it, but it was just more kind of taking everything out on pe people. I think that was more of what it what it was.

[01:02:44]>> What what is everything? You said you're taking everything out on other people.

[01:02:47]>> All of my negative experiences in life.

[01:02:51]I think I just took it out on people. I think that's what it what it was. And it was also half of it was also like the cat and mouse game with authorities that I somewhat enjoyed at that time. So it was mixture of those two things.

[01:03:04]>> Was it like an adrenaline rush?

[01:03:05]>> Yes. Yes.

[01:03:06]>> So where's your life at today now? I'm living with my dad. Uh me and him get along some somewhat. Um he he he he's always going to see me as a kid to a certain degree.

[01:03:21]So, but me and him are getting along well. Me and my sister, I've moved past some of my issues with with her and we get along well. Um but I do still struggle with at times being very very lon lonely, which is something I don't know what to do about that.

[01:03:39]Do you have a girlfriend today?

[01:03:40]>> No.

[01:03:41]>> No.

[01:03:41]>> Okay. And what do you do for work?

[01:03:42]>> I work at a warehouse. I work at an Amazon warehouse.

[01:03:46]>> Okay.

[01:03:46]>> Yeah.

[01:03:47]>> That's good. So, you keep yourself busy with work.

[01:03:50]>> Yeah.

[01:03:51]>> And um what's your do you still have an obsession with true crime?

[01:03:55]>> I still watch true crime. I'm not allowed to re I'm not allowed to research it. I have I have mon software on my on my phone so they see everything I do on on my phone. I'm not allowed to research that stuff. But I still watch Law and Order, >> but not to the extent that I used. Not to the extent that I used. Not to the extent where it's an is it's an issue.

[01:04:15]No.

[01:04:15]>> And what meds are you on today?

[01:04:17]>> I'm on like six.

[01:04:19]>> Are you Are you allowed to name them or?

[01:04:20]>> Yeah, I'm on I'm on lame. I'm on lamed, which is for my seizures. I also have epilepsy. That's for my se That's for my seizures. I'm on cl I'm on cl I'm on cladine.

[01:04:35]I'm on search. I'm on certilline.

[01:04:39]I'm on an ADHD medication called Quell Quell Quelbury.

[01:04:47]I'm on claus I'm on clauser which is an anti-csycho antiscychotic and then um that's it. Yeah. So it's a whole dosage of meds.

[01:04:56]>> Yeah.

[01:04:57]>> It's a lot.

[01:04:58]>> Well, I want to thank you for coming on >> getting honest with us. Yeah. Um, you know, I think this could be Oh, you have your ankle bracelet on.

[01:05:09]>> Yeah.

[01:05:09]>> Wow. Okay. I didn't even see that. You you uh disguise it well with the black sock.

[01:05:14]>> Yeah.

[01:05:16]>> Um I think that if we could prevent >> a major catastrophe.

[01:05:22]>> That's Yeah, that's what that's what I want to do with my life >> from happening and giving back and maybe early warning signs. Yeah. Looking back at it now, what were some of those early warning signs? Potentially, you talked about isolation.

[01:05:39]>> Isolation. And unfortunately, our system glorifies people that commit max that commit v commit violence way too much, which causes people to have an interest in it.

[01:05:54]Um, I think whenever there's a mass shooting, they shouldn't show the person's mug shot. They shouldn't say his name because then it won't be a case where someone might want to do it just to become some somebody.

[01:06:08]>> Um, also they it's specifically with school shootings.

[01:06:13]I don't think it's a gun problem. I don't think that's going to stop it because kids could all kids could always make a bomb. So, I don't think that's something that will prevent it. I think it's mostly just unfortunately I do think you have to arm certain teachers and secure and security guards because when when was the last time you heard of a shoot of a shooting in a sports in a sports arena? It's because there's so much security and if somebody knows there's a gun there, they're not going to go there. M.

[01:06:44]>> So that's unfortunately what I think you have to have to do because people are always going to I go through what I went through and they're always going to I I idolize people that did these sho these sho these sho these shootings.

[01:06:58]>> Yeah. Do you still idolize people who >> No. No. Um no I don't. Um, to answer your question, honestly, not mass shooters um at all, but I still like, you know, there's one or two I'm still kind of interested in, but I don't research them at all because I can.

[01:07:17]>> Yeah.

[01:07:18]Well, I appreciate you taking the trip and coming on here and getting vulnerable vulnerable with us >> so that we can identify early warning signs potentially. Um, and for educational purposes if we can stop one catastrophe, major catastrophe from happening.

[01:07:36]>> Yeah, >> we've done our job and uh I appreciate you taking the time.

[01:07:40]>> Thank Thank you. Thank you for having me.

[01:07:46]I just got to go.