Coffee No Cream Summer Rewind – Black Girl Mean Energy

[00:00:00]Black women, black girls are mean. And you know it, I know it. We are. Me growing up. I have to be honest. I was a jealous girl. Erica came as her full 100% black self.

[00:00:15]>> Mhm. And it scared me. It insulted me. I have never had more women attempt to throw me under the bus, be more rude and nasty than women who look like me, have as much education and work experience as me since I moved to Houston. When I work with black women, it's always kind of like a >> Where is the deficit with you >> that is making you feel envious or mad at that other person?

[00:00:53]Hey everyone, welcome to the Coffee No Cream podcast. My name is Aaron Braxton and I'm the host of Coffee No Cream.

[00:01:00]Here on Coffee No Cream, we are unapologetically dedicated to black women and we share what I like to call coffee no cream moments, those things that happen to us black women in business and in life just because we are black. Now, this is part two of our summer rewind series. And we are taking a look back over the course of many episodes and examining what I have talked about many many times with you directly one-on-one with my guests collectively on panels is how black women are treating each other.

[00:01:34]We're going to reach back and hear from Natasha Williams who has compelled a ton of research around the cost of black excellence. Dr. Lydia Bullock. We're going to reach back and hear from Abby the attorney, Shaquana Hughes, and just also examining some comments that you guys have left talking about your experiences with other black women when it comes to friendships, relationships. We're also going to close it out with some words of wisdom from clinical psychologist Dr. Mel Robinson Brown. So, I I'm super excited about this. And I want you to go into this rewind series, not just, you know, pointing the finger or looking at how other people can be shitty or mean or not nice, how other black women are not being kind and nice to each other. But I want you to take an opportunity to reflect back on yourself. Are you the one who hasn't been so nice? Are you the one who's shown jealous tendencies? Are you the problem? And it's not about beating yourself up. It's more about figuring out how we can do better. Like I've said on episodes prior, like we know, black women are under attack. So, I think it's a good opportunity to hear the honesty and the vulnerability of some of my previous guests as well as well as myself. I have been the mean girl in the past. I see a lot of mean girl behavior. I have experienced being um I guess attacked by other black women personally here on this podcast.

[00:03:22]So, I know I'm not the only one. I also want us to take a close look and see where we can improve. So, let's not waste any more time. Before we get into it, guys, please like, please share, please hit the subscribe button. We've got the Facebook group. We've got almost 2,000 free educational resources from colleges and universities around the country and the world. So, coffee.com/free and let's get into the rewind where this kind of starts me on one about black girls being me. Black women, black women, black women. We are so amazing.

[00:04:04]We are so amazing in everything that we do. I mean, let me just name a few things. We are amazing cooks. We are amazing in our fashion. Our hair is just like beautiful and amazing. We bring the style. We bring the trends. We are amazing friends, partners, daughters, mothers, sisters. Okay? We excel in sports. I mean, we dominate whatever we decide to take an interest in, right?

[00:04:36]But just as amazing as we are in all of those things, we take that excellence and that that that striving for perfection in those areas and we flip it around and we use it as weapons against each other. Does that make sense? I love black women and I'm not saying that every black woman is like this. And if this is not you, it's not you. If this is not you, you've probably experienced it. Black women, black girls are mean.

[00:05:07]And you know it, I know it. We are. We can be horrible. And when we are horrible to each other, it is it's just the worst. It's even worse because we can be a level of mean that makes what white people do to us a walk in the park. That's the level of vitriol and hate and jealousy and shitty comments that I have received not just then when I was a kid growing up actually right now and a lot of you guys are dealing with as well. So I want to talk about that. Why are we like that? Why? Now, um I have one theory and one one reason I believe that we're like this is because of this whole perfectionist thing. I was raised in the suburbs around predominantly white people. Okay? I was the only little black girl in my grade for years until my best friend came in the fifth grade, which changed my life.

[00:06:13]Changed my life. Okay. When I talk about black girls and friends and how loyal we are and how amazing friendships can be with a black woman, that's one that obviously comes to mind. We still talk almost every day to this day. Okay. So, there's nothing like the love and loyalty and attention of a black woman.

[00:06:35]Whether it's romantically or platonic, it doesn't matter. Right? But this whole thing about perfectionists and perfectionism, when I grew up out there in the suburbs, my mom had to make sure that she didn't give those white people any reason, any reason to think less of me. So what did she do? We always dressed better than everybody else and we had everything. It's like they overcompensated, you know, with at least my parents did, okay? We had the best.

[00:07:05]And I'm not alone in that. Whether you grew up in a white area or not, you know, we don't have the room for mediocrity, black women. We just never have. So, we come with our hair done and our clothes amazing and with the latest styles and showing our personality because that's how we are. That's how we bring it. And and the world loves it.

[00:07:26]Not just us, but the world. Obviously, they copy us. They mimic us. They want to do everything we do. They want to talk like us, right? the vernacular of America and other groups which I don't even need to mention. You know, they're taking that from the African-American community, the African-American female community. Point blank period. It's the truth. Okay? We don't have room to not be perfect. But what we do have room for is to not flip that around and use it as a weapon against one another, to tear another black woman down. We deal with too much every single day to be having to deal with it within our own community. Yes, I know sometimes her hair doesn't look as as good as you would want. You don't understand why she's dressed like that. You don't get what's going on with her makeup. You don't get a lot of things. But it doesn't give you the right to tear her down. She doesn't need to hear that coming from you. She's got it bad enough in everything else that she has to deal with. Why do you feel the need to do that? Why do you feel the need to police other black women? It certainly isn't because you're concerned about the way we look out there to white people.

[00:08:42]That's not why why you're doing it.

[00:08:44]You're doing it to be mean. You're doing it most likely because there's a problem or an insecurity or something that you have with yourself, right? We always see the things that bother us the most with other people. It shows up because it's an insecurity that we have. Does that make sense? We always pay attention to the thing on another person that we most dislike about oursel. Does that make sense? I do it. I'll give you an example. The older I get, I get cellulite. I'm always looking at, "Oh, she doesn't have cellulite. Oh, her legs look good. Her legs don't look as bad as mine." I do that, right? If I do it, I'm not the only one. Everybody else does it. So, we always pay attention to those things. And there are a few different ways that we respond to it. black women.

[00:09:31]One is if we see another person who looks good, we can give her her props and applaud her, like her, compliment her, all of the things, or we can choose to tear her down because in our minds, it highlights where we fall short. So, a few years ago, I was talking to a good friend of mine and we were talking about how somebody had irritated me and pissed me off, which, you know, happens a lot.

[00:09:58]And I'm just like, this person gets on my nerves and duh and they do this and they do that and d and I don't know if he was trying to say that I do the same thing, but he very politely and kindly told me a lot of the times the things that people see in other people that they don't like, the reason they don't like it is because it's like a mirror being held up to their face. So I will never forget that. Anytime I see someone and they trigger me, I'm just like, why are they triggering me? A lot of you might not do that exercise. A lot of you may not ever have seen that before or heard of that, but it's real. You should try it. Practice it. If you see somebody, you see another black woman and she looks amazing. Instead of saying she thinks she's all that, I don't, you know, or if you hear a black girl like me who speaks proper English, she thinks she's better than us. Does she? Or is there something in you that thinks she thinks that? Because you're triggered by some somewhere you feel you fall short.

[00:11:08]I'm not saying you do, but somewhere you feel you fall short. So, just pay attention to that. If you're triggered by something another black woman is doing, why are you triggered? Instead of wanting to help and love and support and have love and support in your heart instead of hate and jealousy and envy, why wouldn't you want to help another black woman? You know, if I'm going to call out something on somebody else, I'm going to call out something on myself as well. Um, so me growing up, I have to be honest, I was a jealous girl. I envied a lot of people. I grew up as a fat girl.

[00:11:42]I grew up as a dark-skinned girl. I grew up not being the smartest, right? So, I envy a lot of my friends who were smarter, who the boys would, you know, go after cuz men didn't go after me. Um, they didn't like the little boys, they didn't go after me in the sandbox. So, they didn't. They didn't. So, I envy a lot of people growing up, but it wasn't until I came in too as a young adult that I said, "God, I no longer want to be this way. I don't want to be jealous of anybody." Right? So, I had to do that internal work for myself. Right? And I think that's what's lacking with a lot of black women. It's just literally self-discovery. Do the work to figure out why you act that way. Right? I broke it down. I broke myself down. Me and God in therapy, we broke Lydia down.

[00:12:31]>> Right? So when that girl treated me like that, I was able to sense that insecurity in her because I've been there before.

[00:12:38]>> I was a I was able to sense that spirit of jealousy in her in her because I had been there. I know what that I know how to call it out because I'm so aware of it. I'm so aware of it that I never want to be there ever again in my life.

[00:12:52]>> Now when Erica came >> to the same a to the same firm >> to the same law firm.

[00:12:57]>> Okay.

[00:12:59]>> I was appalled. Aaron. And and this is so embarrassing. Erica came as her full 100% uh Erica, sorry, not your Erica came as her full 100% black self.

[00:13:13]>> Mhm.

[00:13:14]>> And it scared me. It insulted me. This girl was introducing everyone to her husband who was a rapper. Um, she was unapologetically like the way that she wore her hair and changed her hairstyles.

[00:13:32]>> I went into the friend that I already had's office one day and I had had a horrifying car ride with my partner that I did work for where he was making me listen to the mixtape that Erica had given him.

[00:13:46]And I told her, "Can you believe that we have we've set this standard for this long that they will not talk to us this way? They will not hey girl us and honey thing honey child and here comes this girl ruining everything. [cough] >> Wow. I think that WAS THE THAT WAS THE RESPONSE THOUGH. You know like I [snorts] I get it. I get it. I would be different I think in 2025 but catch me in 2002 or whatever. Yeah. I I can get it. Okay.

[00:14:21]>> Yeah. So years later, I come out of my respectability.

[00:14:26]>> Mhm.

[00:14:27]>> And I realized that I lost the opportunity to be friends with this unapologetic, beautiful black woman.

[00:14:35]>> Yeah.

[00:14:36]>> Um, and what made me think about it even was that we had we kept contact over just socials only >> and there was a picture she posted of her and her daughter at Cardi B's concert. And I was like, "Look at her.

[00:14:49]She's always been her full self. and she's able to be her full self wherever she is, even with her kids.

[00:14:57]And I could have been friends with someone like this and not suffered so long of being one person here and one person here and one, you know, like not splitting myself for these people who don't deserve splitting me.

[00:15:13]>> Right. Right.

[00:15:14]>> If I had chose to embrace the areas of the world. And so I told her I told her and I made like a long apology for different things that I had said whether she knew them or not.

[00:15:27]>> That's nice.

[00:15:27]>> And she was just so gracious. She was like literally if I I could go back to the Facebook post her comment was just something very simple like we have to meet people where they are.

[00:15:39]I do find that there is a lot of competition when we go into the workplace and I think from a young age that we're sort of um told that you've got to work hard to succeed. You find that um at home they tell us that we're going to be the only one if you get to the top. Um there's so much competition in the workplace for women and we're trying to get the We're trying to get the attention of the person with power to to see us to recognize that we do exist. And sometimes we think we're the only one that can get there or it's only going to be one of us. It's not going to be you.

[00:16:24]It's going to be me. I'm going to work harder than you. I'm going to get that person's attention. I'm going to get that job. And I don't want anything to do with what you've got to do. But it's it's my job and it's that creates so much um level of competition that creates um scarcity. We have a scarcity mindset um about it. Um and it it it's just hard to work with other black women in the same space half the time. This woman writes, "I'm from Los Angeles and have primarily worked in very diverse settings. I moved to Houston 3 years ago and now work with primarily black women.

[00:17:10]I have never had more women attempt to throw me under the bus, be more rude and nasty than women who look like me, have as much education and work experience as me since I moved to Houston. And I was taught this. This is divisive and not true. Black women have been mean, jealous, and downright nasty. And we are master's degrees and PhD holders. The same is true for my staff who are from Houston. At least four of them have told me that they have never worked with more rude and nasty women. Two of them told me that because of my name, they thought I was white. And if they knew I was black, they wouldn't even have accepted a job offer because they've been treated so poorly by black women.

[00:18:04][snorts] You see what I'm talking about?

[00:18:07]Let me read another one. One woman wrote, "We have one black lady manager.

[00:18:12]She's not for us. She acts and talks differently when her employees complain about being treated unfairly. She ignores us and promotes white women only.

[00:18:26]That was under my episode with Tracy Walker. Um, we were we were primarily talking about experiences with white women, but the response has been a lot of people are agreeing, yeah, I've had these experiences with white women, but this one was saying, I've had an experience with black women. All right. Somebody wrote, this is episode 15. This is under my episode I bet I did about black women policing each other. Oh man, the conversation that needs to be had but we aren't ready for. Lord help us. I say it all the time. We are the most loving beings to others but the worst part of each other. Broken heart emoji. The harshest things said to me and about me were from black women, family, friend, and foe. It's true.

[00:19:17]Like I said, black women can be mean. I just am um detangling myself from someone that I thought I was friends with did the meanest thing to me that I've had somebody do to me probably since junior high. I can't be a part of it. Black women are mean. Black women are mean.

[00:19:41]Mean. Here's another one. This was under my episode 15 about black women being mean. Great topic. I don't think we think critically enough. How we speak to or treat one another. One of my first office jobs was scary for me. I did not expect to walk into a workplace of faces that looked like mine where I was treated like an outcast simply for existing. Being from the suburbs, albeit an African-American suburb, I've experienced all forms of blackness. So, I am cultured in that sense, which is why I was so shocked to see my people tease me for proudly wearing my natural hair, being overweight, dressing appropriately, and keeping things professional in a professional environment. It was traumatic. So, I just kept to myself. And even then, they would amp up their taunts, blame me for things I did not do, place words in my mouth, shade me indirectly, etc. I learned to still be personable, kind, and gentle with others as I understand the traumas we hold. And we do hold traumas. There have definitely been some comments that say, "Hey, I I've never experienced this. I'm I've I don't know what you're talking about."

[00:20:57]Okay, they are definitely in the minority, right? Even if you haven't had such a traumatic work experience with other black women, like I say, I personally have not. I've definitely had my share of bad experiences with black women in school or just in my personal life.

[00:21:24]Even if you haven't had it at work, you understand when I say that immediately.

[00:21:30]you know what I'm talking about.

[00:21:32][snorts] So, my goal is to have the discussion where we can start to hold each other accountable and figure out, are we the bullies? Are we the mean black women? Are we the the black women that are causing other black women such pain and hurt?

[00:21:57]Or are we the ones being harmed?

[00:22:01]Because I I promise you a lot of you listening, watching are part of the problem.

[00:22:09]Are part of the problem. What I'm trying to get everybody to understand here who gets upset when we want to have these conversations is we've got to hold each other accountable. Can we have the conversations? Because we want to sit up here and complain and and moan about white people all the time, but as I've said, white people are a problem, but they are not the problem. A lot of times, we have our own problems in our own circles. We are causing each other so much pain and so much harm and it's just unnecessary. And this is why I want to get to it because from the comments that I'm receiving, it is just constant out here.

[00:22:52]I get that black girl mean energy. It is so painful, so harsh, hurtful, all of the things. So, when I'm talking about things that are going on in our community, this is not the time for us to be at odds with each other. We've got to figure a way forward because nobody else is going to do it for us. So if you're like down with that kind of plan, if you're on board with that, this is where you need to be.

[00:23:24]Let's work on it. Were you getting this push back, all of these, you know, probing questions on the back end of the software or about the back end of the software from us, from white women.

[00:23:43]They're usually my white clients. They're like, "Sign me up."

[00:23:51]Because they have trusted me and I've gained their trust in other ways because I was able to because we worked together before. So, I didn't get as much questioning >> um from them as I did from um black women >> that I would speak with. If >> we don't know a person or you know that kind of thing, then you're a little less trusting. And what's funny is I got into the SAS industry from another black woman, right? M >> and I had followed her on social media, but we didn't have a super, [music] you know, close relationship or anything like that. Um, but she was a black woman. She was in this industry and I wanted to support her. I didn't really know her. So, I just have like a different take on it. I have a different view of it. you know, I signed up immediately >> to bring my customers to her business cuz I was sending them to other softwares. So, I have a different take on it. And I'm sure there are other women like me that have a different take on it. I just don't encounter them as much.

[00:25:02]>> Yeah. No, that's real. That's real.

[00:25:05]>> But a lot of the times there's drama.

[00:25:08]And again kind of to what you're saying and all of that I think that there's some we have been taught to go against each other.

[00:25:22]>> Y >> it's been ingrained in us. It is you know groomed in us you know. So it's that >> you know like my clients that are Caucasian that are white women. They're just like Shaquana do your thing. I know you're here to help me. Right.

[00:25:36]>> I'm not going to stand in the way of that. When I work with black women, it's always kind of like a >> like they don't believe you sometimes or like um >> they put a little extra stank on it >> a little bit >> a little a little extra ump and you know, but they don't they don't trust you. They don't believe you. They're micromanaging you, you know, all of that. And I just don't get that. And I don't want that.

[00:26:03]>> No. And I don't get that with, you know, the white women that I work with. I don't get it, you know.

[00:26:09]>> So, I will find that mentor. I will reach out to people to um if I if I need um someone to talk to how they did that, how did they go along their journey to get to where they are? And I think more of us need to do that instead of looking at other people as competition. Just ask the question, how did you get there? Oh, I like what you're doing. I always welcome that. Sometimes I will take on five or six people that I mentor um in surveying getting through that door. And I put that out to people, you know. But the thing is, a lot of people don't want to ask. They just want to moan and say, "It's so hard. It's so hard. And I just don't know how to do it."

[00:26:59]What are some some ways we can check ourselves to make sure that we're not showing that call it what what kind of aggression it is?

[00:27:08]>> Relational aggression.

[00:27:09]>> Relational relational aggression towards other black women. I I mean I can't do anything about these white women, right?

[00:27:17]Um but [laughter] >> I'm talking to black women because I want us to be better with each other.

[00:27:22]So, >> anything that we need to watch out for that maybe we're we're we're not >> realizing we're doing.

[00:27:30]>> And, you know, it goes back to this idea of noticing, right? So, I want you to notice how you're feeling amongst your friends when you're with them. When everybody's sitting down and talking about, you know, the person they're dating, um, the job, the promotion they just got, the, you know, the grant they just won because they, you know, have been working on a thing. What is your immediate reaction?

[00:27:53]>> This is a thing you do for yourself.

[00:27:55]What's your immediate reaction? Is it here we go again with this woman? Or is it joy? Because I love my friends and I want to see my friends win. So when my friends announce that they just got promoted, when my friends announce that like, you know, they just bought their, you know, their vacation home, I'm excited for them. Yes.

[00:28:15]Not only because your come up means we're all coming up, right? But because I I love to see you win. If you don't love to see your friends win, if you're experiencing what we call envy. Now, there's a difference between envy and jealousy. Probably don't have time to get into it, but Right.

[00:28:30]>> Can you explain? Yeah, please. Cuz I don't think people know.

[00:28:34]>> There is a difference between envy and jealousy. Jealousy is about you, your friend, and another person. I'm afraid I'm going to lose you to another person.

[00:28:46]Right? Same thing with jealousy with a partner. I'm afraid that something's happening that I'm going to lose you.

[00:28:51]Right? There's a thing about loss.

[00:28:53]>> Okay?

[00:28:54]>> Envy is I wish I had what you had.

[00:28:56]>> Mhm.

[00:28:56]>> So, I don't think I'm going to lose you, but I want what you have.

[00:29:00]>> I wish I had what you have.

[00:29:02]>> I I'm sad that I or I'm mad that I don't have what you have. Right? So, it's not about losing you. It's about I want a thing. Whereas jealousy is I think I'm going to lose you. Right? So, you can be jealous of the new friend that comes. If you're partnered with somebody and they, let's just say you're partnered with a man and they have a new work wife, you might be jealous you're going to lose your partner to that work wife.

[00:29:23]>> But if it's your friend and they just bought a vacation home and you can say, "I'm envious. I want a vacation home."

[00:29:28]>> Mhm.

[00:29:29]>> I don't think I'm going to lose you to that vacation home, but I want it. So, if you notice your friends are telling you things, sharing joy with you, and you feel envy, you're mad, you're like, "Ugh, this woman again, annoyed." That is giving you information about yourself, not your friend.

[00:29:47]>> Your friend expects that this is a safe space >> for her to bring the good, the bad, the ugly, the sideways. And if you are like, "You keep telling me about all your wins and it's annoying." That is about you.

[00:30:01]has nothing to do with your friend. Let your friend brag. Who else is she going to brag to if not to you?

[00:30:06]>> So then what do they need to do with that information?

[00:30:09]>> Go see why they're having the issue, >> right? Like what is it that you're wanting? What is it that you haven't been acting on that you're not loving?

[00:30:18]The friend who just went and lost 30 lbs and you're like, "Oh, that's so great."

[00:30:25]Have you been wanting to learn? Have you been wanting to lose 30 lbs? Have you been wanting to try the GLP1s and you don't want to? And now your friend has lost 40 pounds and you're like, >> "This thinks she's all that because she lost all this weight."

[00:30:37]>> Good for her. She did what she wanted to do to lose that weight. Why aren't you doing what you want to do?

[00:30:43]>> Right. Right.

[00:30:44]>> So, you need to when you find that you're feeling that, go check and see what is it that you've been wanting to do, you've been working on, you've been striving for, or not striving for, but you wish you were. what where is the deficit with you >> that is making you feel envious or mad at that other person cuz it's all about you. It's not about them, not if they're just sharing their accomplishments with you. So guys, those are just a few of the conversations, a few snippets of the conversations that we've had over the past 62 episodes. And if you haven't seen those episodes in full, I strongly suggest you go back and revisit them.

[00:31:25]The links are below in the description box in the show notes if you're listening to this on Spotify. And just like the summer rewind series, part one on My Hair My Business, this isn't something that's going to be wrapped up and tied into a nice little bow. This is a conversation that's going to continue to happen on the podcast. It's a it's a conversation that we need to continue to have, not just with each other, but with ourselves. How are we contributing to mean girl energy? How are we not standing up and with our black sisters?

[00:32:02]And you know, that shows up in the comment section. That shows up in the job that we go to every day. It shows up in our relationships. And I mean, you guys might want to think about this, too. Um, people are are starting to retaliate on these comments and and the mean shitty that people are saying to other black women in the comments. I just saw on Tik Tok somebody has gone for a commenter and has come for this woman's job. And it's it's it's a it's a strong possibility that because this black woman was mean to another black woman in the comments due to the pro profession that the the person is in, they could lose their job. So not not even just for that, we need to examine why we feel so compelled to be hurtful and harmful to other black women. So I'm going to leave it there.

[00:33:04]If you haven't seen those episodes, go check them out. And um thank you so much for watching and we will see you in the next video. [music]