When evaluating film trilogies, narrative consistency and accessibility are key quality indicators. A perfect trilogy requires consistent character growth, throughlines, and messaging across all films, with a single accessible cut that tells the story effectively. Lord of the Rings films suffer from inconsistent cuts between theatrical and extended versions, with content that should have been cut and content that should have been included, making them less cohesive as a trilogy. In contrast, Toy Story 1-3 maintains narrative consistency with only one cut per film, making it a more complete and accessible trilogy.
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Death of Robin Hood, Toy Story 5, Spider-Man: BND - THE MINORITY REPORT
Added:the greatest trilogy of all time.
>> Even Quinton Tarantino said that Toy Story was a perfect trilogy, and he's not [ __ ] wrong. [laughter] >> Quinton Tarantino is wrong a lot about a lot of things.
>> First of all, first of all, you're a woman. You don't get have an opinion on Quinton Tarantino. Those are man movies.
Thank you. [laughter] Uh >> there's a difference between like a perfect trilogy and the greatest trilogy of all time, which is what you claim the Toy Story trilogy to be. That's That's my only issue. First of all, okay, I I don't know if it is the greatest trilogy of all time. I will say it's a perfect trilogy. And as I said last night, and I stand by it, it is a it is a more perfect trilogy than The Lord of the Rings. It is by by a smidge by a hair.
But it is.
>> That is the wildest thing I've ever heard. I'm going to be dead ass.
>> That is wild as hell. I I almost want to bring Nick in.
>> Sorry. I I I've been trying to convince Nick to do Toy Story for Masculine Monday. The first Toy Story you could dissect the masculinity the hell out of.
Playing with toys is masculine.
>> It's not. First of all, it's not about playing with toys. The movie is not about playing with toys. Okay, Y'ALL.
>> I FEEL LIKE YOU'RE DOING THIS.
You No, you tr [laughter] I'm just baiting you. I wanted us to to kick off with a bang. That's why I started the stream right after.
>> So obvious. [laughter] >> I I I don't I know you're playing me, but you're right.
>> No, I I really want to unpack this now.
You may have been baiting him, but like I'm genuinely curious now. Um, >> he's being serious though.
>> Yeah, I know. Okay, hold on. Okay.
[laughter] Can you state your case for why Toy Story 1 through three is the greatest, right? Greatest, not best.
>> Uh, it is it is arguably the greatest trilogy of all time. I do think it's a perfect trilogy. I' I'd be open to hearing other arguments, but yes, I do think it is actually the most perfect trilogy ever made.
>> Okay. Could you state your like I do want to actually like hear your point, not just laugh at you.
>> Um, I will do it in a vague way because Katie, Andy, and Nat convinced me offcreen last night to actually do a full-on video saying why Toy Story trilogy is better than Lord of the Rings trilogy. So, I'll explain it in a vague way.
>> Okay. I think that as individual films, not not only does every single film work as an individual film, but the consistency of the character growth, through lines, uh overall uh just the the overall messaging like that works as a total package plus the messaging within each individual film. Um just the the narrative and character consistency in Toy Story I don't I think is unparalleled.
Um, I will explain to you off camera or just send you a message on Discord real quick why I think it does it even better than Lord of the Rings. I don't want to spoil that cuz it's going to be the lynch pin of the video.
>> I'm Well, even with the vague description you've given, I'm trying to understand how Lord the Lord of the Rings trilogy doesn't have throughline characters.
>> No, no, no. So, again, that >> I'm not saying it doesn't. I'm saying Toy Story does it better. And there's a there is a part like one major reason Toy Story does it better, but that's why I'm not willing to spoil. So, I will just message you.
Toy Story does do it better than Lord of the Rings. I'll explain why.
>> I feel like Nick is actually like going to beat you in person the next time he sees you. Now, >> no. Now, mind you, I'm talking specifically about the films. Not I'm not I'm not including the books.
>> I'm just talking about the films, too.
Yeah, the books [laughter] are perfect. So, as long as you understand that, great. I will I will DM you right now while we move to a topic that's uh probably like saying hi to the chat or something >> less controversial. [laughter] >> Okay, if we're moving on, I won't invite Nick. I was going to ask him to come in anyway into this too much. It'll ruin my video so I can't like you guys convinced me. Actually, not even dared me to do this. So now I'm kind of in this pos. I would actually love to defend this right now, but then what's the point in doing the video? So >> you can still do the video.
>> You can still do the video. Yeah. I mean mo most of the streams that we do with Minority Report discussing films I use as like inspiration and a proving ground for the arguments and points that I'm going to make in the videos that I end up publishing like a week later. So >> So then then here here's the main reason. And there will be other reasons obviously it's going to be lengthish video but the main reason um Lord of the Rings as films are are rather inconvenient to watch due to the fact that there is the uh theatrical release and the extended cuts and some of them uh there's no con like consistent way to watch it to get everything proper because let's say you know return of the king for example cuts out certain things in the theatrical version that you need in the in the extended cut. However, uh the Fellowship of the Ring, you've got things that were completely unnecessary, it makes sense they were cut, the theatrical cut does actually make more sense to watch. Uh so the point is because you can't pick and choose a way to watch theatrical and and um extended cut without having, you know, without the tra the fat being trimmed, whereas Toy Story only has one cut of each film, the theatrical cuts is actually more narratively consistent and better the whole way through. There's no fat on those films as a trilogy at all that need trimmed in the slightest. There's no [ __ ] fat on either version of any of the Lord of the Rings movies.
>> See, Lord of the Rings fans say that because they've been watching the movies forever. They've been watching the extended.
>> I'm not a fan, by the way. I'm not a Lord of the Rings fan.
>> There is there is fat on the Lord of the Rings films. There's not >> Give me an example of fat. Give me an example, please.
>> Um there there's a a bunch of extra stuff that happens in the Shire, both in uh Fellowship of the Ring and in Return of the King that don't add really anything to the narrative or the characters except for showing us >> more spec. Like I want an actual scene like >> I to be fair I will have to rewatch the the Lord of the Rings trilogy to pick them out because I've I've made these arguments [clears throat] before but I'm going to have to rewatch the trilogy to pick them out. But um there's like okay for theatrical cut of or theatrical cut of Return of the King. Okay. We have no uh no idea where uh Sauron is or where Sarman is. Right. Extended cut. We see oh he falls. He dies. He gets impaled.
That's something that was added. That is good. We did need that. Um there's I'm I'm trying to think of some stuff that need to be cut.
>> Hold on. That's in the theatrical cut as well.
>> No, it is not. No, it is. You see him falling.
>> No, Max is not. Seeing what happens to Serman is not in the theatrical cut of Return of the King.
>> You see him falling in the theatrical cut.
>> No, you don't. [snorts] That's That's only the extended cut. The theatrical cut gives vague illusions to it. We never see it or actually really know what happens to him. That's only the theatrical cut. I mean the the extended cut.
>> I'm sorry. Okay. That's by That's something that should have been the actual cut. It's a big [ __ ] plot point.
I you do not see Solomon falling in in the theatrical cut. Look, Leon is technically right. Saramon doesn't die in the theatrical cut. It's just implied that he's imprisoned. But I will say >> I was okay with him just being imprisoned. I I don't think that's >> you know he doesn't get a happy ending either way. So that's fine.
>> That's that's not my point is there was clearly fat trimmed and theatrical cuts that didn't make sense. and there's other stuff that it didn't make sense to cut that, you know, should have been in there. And that inconsistency, whereas Toy Story, since there's only one cut of each films, has zero inconsistencies.
That's what makes them as films a better trilogy. The fact that they it trimmed the fat in all the right places and there is no inconsistent way to watch them.
>> I I wouldn't.
>> Okay. [laughter] >> I I I I'm with Vex on this. I think both the theatrical cuts of the Lord of the Rings and the extended cut are absolute masterpieces and um even with the fat that is trimmed in the theatrical cut, they're still very consistent and solid uh movies.
>> I agree. I think you should show people who have never seen the Lord of the Rings films the theatrical cuts first, not the extended cuts. I think that the first time exposure to Lord of the Rings should be the theatrical cuts.
>> Hold on. I'm just I'm I'm still okay. I could I was more on board with your general thesis statement before, but one of your examples is that oh, this movie has two versions, therefore it that kind of makes it the worst trilogy.
>> No, no, no. It's not that it has two versions. It's that in both versions, either things are cut that shouldn't be cut or there's things added that are unnecessary. And so because of the fact that there are in the in the extended cuts fat that's not trimmed or things in the theatrical cut that should have been there, there is an unevenness. You really don't get the full story of the Lord of the Rings trilogy unless you actually watch six total movies and it's a trilogy. Whereas Toy Story 1 through three, one cut. Yeah, that's it. It is just as narratively uh world building rich, character consistent, all that as Lord of the Rings and it does it with half the films.
>> [laughter] >> It's okay. It's okay. We we we'll move to to our first topic of >> No, like I wish I wasn't half asleep because like I'm I'm I'm not even a Lord of the Rings fan. Okay. But like I can look at those films and be objectively like those are like kind of perfect films the way that like I'm not a fantasy person whatsoever.
>> But I'm just a little bit baffled that just because a film is able to tell the same story with slight variations that means that it has more fat or less uh >> Yes, that's definitionally correct.
>> No, but in just because it has two versions of a film that means that it tells the lesser story.
>> Oh, no. No. Yes. Absolutely. Because it No, it's not that it tells the lesser story. It's about That's what you're implying. No, it's about the fact the story is told in an inconsistent fashion. Not that it's not inconsistent inconsistent at all. There's less of the story. But ju just because something is cut doesn't make it uh inconsistent.
>> No. Again, I'm not saying because something is cut inconsistent. I'm saying because some things were cut, other things were added, and you uh and you're not going to know what is and isn't there unless you watch both versions. And then it's in the the what was cut is inconsistent. Stuff that should have been in the theatrical cut wasn't, which is why people watch the extended editions. But there's also things in the extended editions, and I will have examples when I rewatch the film so I can make this video. Uh there's stuff that is in the extended editions that's not the actual cut that Yeah, there's a reason they're not in the actual cut. They should have been cut. So we we that that's what I'm getting at is there's an inconsistency in what was chosen to be left in and and be taken out.
>> I I don't think that damages the story that's being told whatsoever because you still have the same story, the same characters, and the same.
>> I'm not making the argument that Toy Story has a better story. That's not my argument.
>> I that you didn't hear what I said.
Because you're saying that because there are two versions, there's parts that are included or taken out of both versions of Lord of the Rings, right? And that in that regard that makes the stories less cohesive compared to Toy Story.
>> No, it is not that it makes it less cohesive. I'm saying from a filmmaking perspective, what makes the greatest trilogy of all time, or at least arguably the greatest trilogy of all time, is the consistency of doing it perfectly the first time through. But okay, so now you're running Okay, there's a couple things here, right?
There's first, you're running under the assumption that the cut of Toy Story 1, 2, and 3 that we got in the theaters and on DVD or whatever was the final and perfect cut, right?
>> Only one that is accessible to the public. So, it is the only cut.
>> That there's other stuff locked in a vault that no one's ever seen. Right now, there's two different cuts of every Lord of the Rings movie. there's one cut of Toy Story and it tells the story perfectly all the way through on it on the on the one single watch. Whereas with Lord of the Rings, you effectively have to watch two two versions of each one.
>> You don't have to though.
>> Let's be real. Is there any [ __ ] person out there that's going to say never watch the extended editions? They don't matter.
>> No, but they kind of do.
>> You can just watch the extended edition.
>> No, the extended editions have extra things in them that didn't need to be there. They didn't. There's a reason they were cut from the theatrical because they actually were fat that should have been cut.
>> This is the other thing that you need to take because uh Peter Jackson condensed a lot of material in order for it to translate successfully into films.
Right. Correct.
>> So the extended versions are not necessarily for people that just go to the theater or just want to watch a movie. Those are kind of more for the hardcore fans. Whichever version you watch, that doesn't take away from the story. No, because you're you're the one that's always like, hey, you know, from a filmm perspective, things, you know, sometimes things need to be looked at just as a film itself regardless of source material. I actually disagree with you on that, but that is your standard that you have set on many stream that the >> That's not the argument I'm making.
>> No, that that is the argument. You're saying, "Oh, he had to condense all this sort of stuff for No, you're you're from at this point you're pulling."
>> But that's not the argument I'm making.
I'm not basing it off of the source material. I'm saying objectively there is a lot of stuff that he had to condense and cut out of the material in order to make it into a film right >> condensed from what >> from the books but you are saying the source material is part of the equation here I'm not I'm actually using your standard which is re which is take the source material adaptation aspect out of it and just look at the film making >> well even if we do that I mean Goodwin's made a point here Highlander one to three is better is a better trilogy [laughter] than the Star Wars because there's only one cut of the former based on your argument. By the way, >> Goodwin Goodwin is in is intently being obtuse by my argument. I'm comparing two damn near perfect trilogies and why one slightly edges out the other the other, which is because Lord of the Rings has things that should have been cut, has things that shouldn't have been cut.
There is inconsistencies amongst them.
I'm not saying just because you have one cut, it's perfect. I'm saying these two things are already damn near perfect.
Here's why one slightly edges out the other.
>> Uh, Reaper, welcome, buddy. Uh Leon is making the argument that the Toy Story trilogy is better than the Lord of the Rings trilogy. Your thoughts?
>> No, it isn't. I'm not. I mean, [laughter] Toy Story 1, two, and three are fun. I enjoy them. And there's only three movies.
>> Great. There's only three.
>> Lord of the Rings is is like the masterpiece. It is hard. It is in terms of scale and like not just that the practical effects and everything just you can't even compare them.
>> I absolutely think you can. I'm going to be doing it. I'm going to be doing >> You're wrong, Liam. You're very wrong.
>> I just wish you brought a better argument than oh, there's an extended >> I've got more arguments, but that's the one that I think that that is my that is my favorite argument. I've got other arguments, but again, there's some things I'm not going to say because I want to do my video. I You guys might use the strange brainstorming stuff. I try not to do that. I don't like giving away because then what's the point of people watching the video? We've got so much shared audience crossover.
Well, the only thing you could really compare them to is that each of them nailed a trilogy. There isn't like a good bad >> No, correct. I'm I'm the two They are arguably the two most perfect trilogies of all time. My argument is that Lord of the Rings or that Toy Story is slightly edges that Lord of the Rings. If Lord of the Rings 9.9, Toy Story is a 10. Like, it's that close.
>> I'll come to 10. Like, why do you view as a 10?
>> Say that one more time.
>> Why do you view Toy Story better?
Um, I think that the overall story structure, characters, narrative through lines, messaging are all uh just again a hair better than what we get from Lord of the Rings.
>> From a cinematography perspective, from a script writing perspective, from a direction perspective, from >> I I would say mostly from I would say mostly from a writing perspective.
Cinematography is going to be an interesting one to tackle because one is CG versus and very early CG when you're talking about the first Toy Story versus uh Lord of the Rings. And then again, Lord of the Rings, you also kind of have early era CG. So, I mean, the cinematography aspect is going to be difficult to angle. I don't really have thoughts on that yet. Off to Again, I'm going to do a rewatch of all nine of these movies to really compare them.
>> Yeah, but if you're going to compare them, you got to compare them.
>> All nine. Wait, all nine? Three? Oh, both versions. Yeah. Yeah. Sorry. Okay.
>> But [laughter] the Hobbit trilogy. That was like the hottest stories and six Lord of the Rings films cuz I needed to know specifically the cuts and trims and fats and stuff made uh from the extended to the theatrical to the extended to know what should have been there, what shouldn't, what made sense to cut theatrical stuff like that.
With that said, let's say hello to everybody. Welcome all. We've got a couple of super chats uh that came in at the start. We got Rossy says, "Well, hi, smiley face. Erect Rose." We've got uh Aiden Wilson who became a member. Thank you so much, buddy. We've also got Rossy for another five. Lord of the Rings has about as much fat as Ariana Grande 100.
[laughter] >> Both also Rossy for another five. Vex, you don't say you're half asleep on NAD show. That's true. Yeah. How dare you.
>> Okay. I mean, it's not you or your show that's making me I was just already tired, so I apologize for already being tired.
>> It's 8:30.
>> I I didn't fall asleep at all last night. I am just kind of tired, man.
That's it is what it is.
>> Don't shame people, Leon, in their sleep patterns.
>> I'll [snorts] sh because of Vex. But [laughter] >> especially when you spend 79 hours a month gaming like >> No, 79 hours every two weeks is even worse. That's the problem.
>> Jesus, are you serious?
>> That's what we're saying.
>> Two weeks.
>> I thought it was.
>> Didn't you just say the other day that you have no time and you've spent 80 hours gaming? To be fair, half of that is for streams and whatnot, which is work, and the other half is me and my girlfriend play games together. That's how we bond. So, like, sorry. If I'm hanging out with my girlfriend, I want to do [ __ ] she wants to do. Her and I have been playing Exhibition 33 together and and stuff. So, you know. Yeah.
>> That's a full That's two weeks of a full-time job. That's crazy.
>> To be fair, YouTube is my full-time job and half of these are streams.
>> Rossy for five. Lord of the Rings's [laughter] favorite trilogy. # Leon speech. That speaks to my point that like you y'all know how much I adore [ __ ] Sonic the Hedgehog, how much I love that trilogy, the character, the games, all of it. I put both Lord of the Rings and Toy Story above Sonic the Hedgehog. So, it's clear it's not like a uh a character bias or anything like that.
>> Lord of the Rings is better than the Sonic trilogy Toy Story trilogy. It's the greatest trilogy of all time. But, [laughter] >> uh, with that said, let's jump into I know. I know. Let's jump into the first topic. I was baiting Leon. We were like a man down at the start. And Goodwin is sick. I hope he feels better.
>> I'm actually going to watch [ __ ] Toy Story 3 now because of this [ __ ] argument that you made, Leon.
[laughter] >> I'm finally going to watch it. There you go.
>> You know what? I I will take the small dubs as they come. [laughter] >> To be fair to Leon, I haven't seen Toy Story 3, which is why I didn't watch Toy Story 5. Like, >> well, no, there's only three Toy Story movies. There's only three.
>> It's It's just like the Indiana Jones or the Evil Dead. There's only three.
>> So we first topic for today, we're going back to obsession. Curry Barker said that studios must understand that Gen Z audiences are tired of slop. We want good movies back. People are still hungry for movies that are original without some big IP as long as the story is good. I definitely have to agree with him there. I think that mainstream uh audiences are sick of like the studios and I also think that like modern directors Spielberg showed us with disclosure day are not in touch with what mainstream audiences want to see in film. Um but I I thought this was interesting. He said that he was offered 2 million by I'm assuming it's focus pictures to rewrite Obsession and have Bear as the hero. uh he declined and said, "I'm not writing uh rewriting the script to make Bear a Guy that does all the right things." Could you imagine if he took them up on that? Like how different the story would be. It would be a horrible film.
>> That um the entire that entire interview with Hollywood Reporter is a gold mine if you get a chance if anyone in the audience as well gets a chance to read it cuz it's he calls Hollywood Hollywood out in literally every answer he has for every question. It's it's really wonderful. Really really wonderful because the only other time you you hear people go out of their way to do that is when you have people with established like clout and status like Denzel or uh was it Russell Crowe recently did it. So they can just say whatever they want and they won't tarnish their reputation. But Curry Barker is new on the scene. This is his first Hollywood movie and he's just going balls to the wall. I have so much respect for it.
>> Yeah.
>> Proven massive balls on him. I mean, you can understand Russell Crowe. He's already won an Oscar. He's had a pretty amazing career. He's had some duds of of of movies, but what he said about Gladiator 2 was [ __ ] spoton. Like uh he was mentioning how Ridley Scott wanted uh Maximus to have an affair. And it's just like it just destroys the moral core of the character. The reason people like Maximus is every man aspires to be him and every woman wants to be with him. And if you do that to the character, you undermine his moral core.
And Ridley Scott basically ignored that in Gladiator 2 and said that he was [ __ ] other [ __ ] on the side. Uh, which which undermines the movie, the first movie. So, >> well, especially question about Curry Bark. Oh, go on, Reaper.
>> I was going to say we know that there's an afterlife. So, what happens when he gets there and all his concubines meet his wife? [laughter] >> You know what I mean?
>> He's not going to heaven. He cheated on his [ __ ] He's going to hell. So, they're not gonna meet each other. I >> what's funny is that I don't know if you guys are aware, but there was an Australian musician. Well, there still is. He's not dead. He's called Nick Cave, right? He's he's he's pretty awesome. And he was initially going to do a Gladiator 2 sequel in the early 2000s set in the afterlife um with Maximus and he couldn't secure enough funding and Russell Crow wasn't too keen on that project. So, that that ended up like collapsing, but that could have been interesting. Hm.
>> Hey there.
>> Um, but uh yeah, so I actually found some deleted footage of Disclosure Day.
I'm not sure if you guys have seen this.
Um, >> you were alien, shorty. The aliens made you psychic so you could see in people's heads and [ __ ] [laughter] >> Oh, you think it's funny?
>> [laughter] >> Oh my gosh, >> I love that.
>> Saved the movie.
>> I could not finish that movie, by the way. I got 40 Yeah, Reaper knows. I got 45 minutes in and I I just couldn't I couldn't understand why anybody anybody at all could rightfully defend Disclosure Day.
>> It's not a good film. Like, it's >> I look Loft has been talking about making a comeback. I need to message him and be like, "Yo, come here and defend Disclosure Day."
>> I want Lofty to come back. so much. Like every every once in >> he's been saying that he's he's tossing the idea around.
>> Oh god, I miss him so much.
>> So [ __ ] much.
>> I know people just made fun of him, but I I thought Lofty was so refreshing.
That's >> No, [laughter] I missed him.
>> Ironically love Lofty. I think he he's a great dude.
>> Oh, okay. Sorry, off topic. Go ahead.
>> You sound >> You sound like a bunch of bullies who the kids you picked on has moved schools and now you >> literally did love Lofty. Lofty had some terrible takes. Uh but not not even terrible takes. He was right 70% of the time. He was just only good of explaining those takes 30% of the time and that was his biggest downfall. Authy was amazing.
>> I just like his charm. I just thought he was charming regardless of what his take was. That's all.
>> Didn't he literally leave because everybody bullied him, including you guys. Like I'm [laughter] >> I was almost always on his side. I was the only one. There's a reason they say that I took the lofty crown after he left. So >> it's true.
>> Maybe. True.
>> Well, the crown is split between you and Nio. Yes, it's true. Wait, >> so a fully grown man was so insulted he quit the internet >> and you all made fun of him.
>> No, I can't I can't remember what it was. There was something that just like >> he had some medical issues and was writing his novel and YouTube was just taking up too much time. So, he needed to get the medical issues sorted and his book finished and uh >> yeah, >> you know, medical issues seem sorted. I don't know how his book is doing, but yeah, that's why he's tossing around the idea of coming back.
>> You sound like you sound like you're trying to go like, "Oh, well, we didn't bully him that badly.
>> [laughter] >> Lofty and tell him I hope he's okay.
>> You're all having fun in Lofty's mind.
You're all like tripping him over and stealing his lunch money and [ __ ] [laughter] Now, [snorts] Disclosure Day, box office numbers have uh come in. I think it's been out for a week and a half. It's uh made 110 million worldwide, only 61 domestic, which is super disappointing for a Spielberg film. But uh I think the budget for this movie was 115. So it needs to make close to 300 million to break even. I think it eventually will.
This is the type of movie that will stay in theaters for at least two months I think. But uh yeah, I was quite surprised by by its Rotten Tomato score though, right? Like 80% like it's been certified fresh by Rotten Tomatoes and 72% from audiences. But I don't think this deserves higher than 55% at best.
>> Well, I think I think the problem with Rotten Tomatoes is that the people who go to watch these movies are the only people who give it positives. Like the general person doesn't go on Rotten Tomatoes and give their opinion anymore.
>> Do you know what I mean?
>> Yeah.
>> They cancelled it. Was it Brie Larson or something? What was the film? Was it R Skywalk?
>> Yeah. Yeah. the Marvels where he said we're gonna completely verify everyone's audience score so you can't even do that anymore. I think people just quizzes >> they changed the audience score for for the Marvels cuz initially I think it was at like 10 or 15% and it had like uh 10,000 or 15,000 audience score ratings for that and then they basically wiped 80% of the scores out >> or something less like it was crazy.
Well, I'm not surprised. Sorry.
>> Sorry. Go ahead.
>> No, I was say I'm not surprised by these scores. Like, there's been tons of people who said that they gave it more praise because it's Spielberg. And I honestly do think if this was any other director, this film would have been torn to pieces. Um, people are giving way too much leeway because they're like, well, it's not that bad. And then on top of that, I think the critic score is only that high because of the like controversy of them trying to say that it dunks on Christians and that it'll make you question your faith even though it doesn't. And I see tons of people trying to like like read way too much into the ambiguity and like the things that they left open-ended to make it seem like it meant more than it actually did.
>> Not just that, the um the whole Rotten Tomato system is broken. Three out of five is a fresh. If everyone gives the film three out of five, it's 100%.
>> Yeah, >> that that that's a 60% movie gets 100%.
It makes no sense. It's [ __ ] >> In many ways, I feel as though the IMDb score is um more accurate than the Rotten Tomato score.
>> What's the score?
>> Let's see. For disclosure day.
>> Yeah.
But the whole thing is I think nobody these sites don't have the influence they once did cuz everyone wanted to see what the tomatoes meter would be on like Batman vs Superman. Nobody nobody cares about her anymore. It's just irrelevant.
>> The IMDb score for Disclosure Day is 6.7 currently.
>> That's still too high.
>> That's still too high. But uh and generally speaking, you can look at the >> What about uh Yeah. I wonder what about Metacritic because Metacritic does movies, right? Not just games.
>> Yeah. Did you check?
>> Yeah, I'll check right now. Um, >> I just the the Spielberg isms aren't even like the Spielberg isms worked because like the the plot brought them together always or the characters brought them together in all of his movies. And when you don't have a solid either one of those cuz this really had like four different plots going on and none of the characters were really going anywhere in the first 45 minutes that I watched. All of the Spielberg isms never just came together. So, I couldn't really care about the score or the way he framed this shot or the cinematography here. I I just don't get it.
>> Sorry.
>> They don't go anywhere for the entire film.
[laughter] >> There are a handful of moments where you see the old Spielberg uh spark where his cinema like there's a couple of set pieces where you see the cinematography uh the mood, the atmosphere. You've got John Williams score supporting it, but it's all >> underpinned by a mediocre script, some hilariously awful performances that it's kind of superfluous. By the way, I uh I did message uh Nick and he responded, I'm on the west coast of Florida with family. Uh I will say though, Lord of the Rings is better. So he wins. Leon, >> you know, to be actually to be fair, if Nick, King Tolken scholar, just said it's better as opposed to [ __ ] that trainy, [ __ ] Then you know what? I think that I have a case. I think I have a case.
>> What?
>> You have a case cuz he gave a me measured response instead of freaking out. That's [ __ ] >> He didn't crash out on Leon.
>> He didn't attack your character. I've seen Nick I have seen Nick crash out over Lord of the Rings criticisms now justifiably so but I've seen him crash out.
>> Uh well shifting on to more box office news just so you guys know for Disclosure Day was 5.2 user score.
>> Now that's accurate.
>> I can believe that more. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Masters of the Universe has only made 90 million at the box office worldwide. Um, and bear in mind like the 39 million it made from international, the studio is only going to get half of that. So 20 million and then maybe 60% of the 51. So they're sitting at what $60 million profit off a [snorts] budget that was 1651 170.
>> It was almost 200.
>> It was Yeah, it was way higher than that.
>> Not including marketing.
>> Yeah.
>> Why is this done so badly? Like I thought that like a brain dead action flick would you know do a lot better like >> two reasons in my opinion. Uh the first reason is is that Kevin Smith killed whatever fandom there was for this IP with his network. Right? That's the first one. The second thing is is that Mattel or whatever did not do any due diligence in trying to revive hype for this IP before dropping $200 million on this movie. Like when you have something with Barbie, at least Barbie still had the toys coming. They have all the animated shows, so there's a built-in audience over generations there. But He-Man, Masters of the Universe, that has not had any relevancy aside from memes for the better part of 25 years now. So >> as well.
>> Yeah. So, if they just if they just like started releasing toys again or like put out some animated shows for kids here and there, this probably would have done better. It doesn't help that the marketing was pretty garbage for it.
Like all the good marketing came out >> marketing, I think, was one of the few things this did right. What do you mean?
>> Let me finish. Let me finish. all the good marketing came out the week after the film came out instead of the two weeks leading up to the film because all the best interviews I saw were after the film came out which should have been that should have been front and center before >> I I don't know if that's true because I mean we we were covering the leadup to He-Man for like three months weekly on Badger show. We watched all kinds of great interviews. There was great posters. There was like the only uh uh red flag was how little they were showing of Jared Leto and Skeletor. And that was again likely due to the like the accusations and stuff like that.
Funnily enough, he's the one that steals the show. I can't believe I'm saying that about Jared Leto performance. But like I said the marketing was pretty spoton. It's just I think a lot of people didn't see the marketing because much like what you said, there's no public eye on He-Man to get people to notice the marketing for the marketing to appear in their algorithms, things like that. Um and then yes, Kevin Smith did irreparable damage. That is I mean that that cannot be understated. I don't know if you said as a joke, but like I think you No, I meant it seriously.
>> Oh yeah, cuz Yeah, cuz I think you were are spot on. Well, the the marketing was good. I hit people's algorithms because of what you said about Mattel's failures. Like, say what you want about the the Michael Bay Transformers movies and stuff like that. Transformers has always consistently gotten TV shows, video games, comics, all that stuff. So, Transformers movie is going to do at least fine. I don't remember how Transformers one did, but um uh >> very well.
>> See, I thought it did. like Transformers. You could have had another Transformers like situation with He-Man had you know now again that's Hasbro not Mattel but the point is Hasbro as much as I hate that garbage ass fuckstick company at least know what they're doing when it comes to you know banking on their IPs.
>> This also should not have cost $170 million. It should have been like a hundred.
>> Yeah. Oh, not even that. Like >> Yeah, that's generous though. But >> I Deadpool was made for 60 million.
>> Deadpool one, >> the first Deadpool was made for 60 million.
>> I mean, adjusted for that's probably close to 100 million now, right? So, >> didn't pay anyone.
>> Yeah, >> they they paid people sort of like below the average wage. But bear in mind, Deadpool was also riding the hype of Marvel's like phase 2, I think it was.
So, yeah, I think it was right around the end of phase two, beginning of phase three.
>> End of phase two, beginning of phase three. People were still psyched about the MCU. They wanted to see where everything was going. And Deadpool is such a beloved character that they were happy to see a standalone story that didn't necessarily connect to the Marvel universe or the X-Men cuz they joke about the X-Men not being in Deadpool.
And just to add on to that, Ryan Reynolds had been running a campaign for the character to get a movie for almost a decade after X-Men or or Wolverine Origins came out because that was the film debut for the character, right? So, there was also that consistent fire burning over many, many years. But I'm really upset this flopped and I'm kind of more upset that people are trying to label this as woke because it's not woke whatsoever.
>> It's not woke. It's just a bad story.
>> Come at me, Reaper. Come at me. Let's go.
>> It [laughter] is a very feminine feminine masculinity it pushes.
>> Go on.
>> You can't be a man's man. You have to be a woman's man. All the power the character gets is from a woman. He rejects the throne in favor of his mother. His responsibility. Imagine Aragorn going return the king, but not really. I'm going to give it to my sister.
>> Okay, hold on. Hold on. I don't think we can call that woke if that's what the 80s source material did. That's just being in line with the source material.
Also, real quick, 60 million in 60 million in 2016 would only be a little more than 80 million now. So, Deadpool even by today's standards, 83 million.
Not bad.
>> All right.
>> Every male character is a [ __ ] loser.
>> And not just that, the women the Duncan is a [ __ ] drunk loser who loses one fight, gives up. Tie, his daughter, has more courage than he does. Is the one that pushes Adam into action, never gives up.
Duncan pushes. Sorry. Go on.
>> She pushes her father into action. Her father says that she's a better man than he could ever be.
>> That's a I can agree with that one. I don't think she should have had that line. And I don't like what they did to Duncan as a character because he had this good kind of like, oh, I'll be a supplemental father figure for Adam, at least while Adam transitions back into um [ __ ] what's the world called? Um >> Eternia.
>> Eternia, right? But like calling Adam a like calling Adam a [ __ ] is fine because Adam and He-Man are two separate characters and the film makes that painfully clear.
>> Well, no, because >> I see I actually think the film could have done better about that in compared to like what the the TV shows do and what not. But I do agree with you. It does make it at least clear enough for the normies to understand, >> right?
>> No, Adam is like a costume. It's like um Bruce Wayne's a Batman. Like Bruce Wayne plays like an idiot. Adam pretends to be this weakling. That's the whole point.
He's actually tricking everyone. It's a cost.
>> Finish your thought. Sorry. Finish your thought.
>> I was saying that's the whole point.
He's not actually weak. He's pretending to be weak. Whereas this Adam is genuinely weak. Not just that, he has to use the tools of femininity which he learns on Earth to rally the men. He doesn't step up to be he actually uses HR, the [ __ ] soulless, horrible mankilling organization of HR to actually be a leader. But see, when he does that, it doesn't work. That's the thing. Like, >> it does work. He organizes the escape.
He goes, first of all, time one of his big speeches, whatever works. And we've seen speeches like those in movies a million times. Like, oh man, I knew you when you were a kid. You did this. I've seen you do this. We've all grown up together and we're strong together.
We've seen speeches like that for [ __ ] >> No, but it's not that though. He's using it directly for HR. Also, he gets Duncan to get him re He gets Duncan to get back in touch with his feelings, which gives Duncan the courage to fight Trap Jaw again. So, he gives him a HR talk. Then he gives everyone else. He literally says team building exercise.
>> Okay, if I may.
>> Go on.
>> Okay, if I may. So, I completely agree with you on all the Duncan stuff because I do think they they nuked that character. He could have been so much better than he was. I don't like that he says to Tila, "You're the man that I never was or whatever." Right. So, I'm in complete agreement with you there.
When it comes to Adam, the film makes it very clear that because Adam was a bit of a goofy kid and he didn't fulfill his, you know, training obligations before he was forced out of attorney and thought that he witnessed both of his parents dying. He kind of ends up being this guy that's perpetually stuck in the past when he goes to the human world.
And in the human world, if you want to adapt an 80s cartoon for a 2026 audience, and I'm not saying that in like a sensibility way, but the way that you can translate that is like, oh, you poke fun at HR. The film doesn't take HR. Yes, it does. Look at his boss, man.
His boss is a [ __ ] clown.
>> Yeah. I mean, all the HR stuff in the real world is is a complete caricature of HR. Like there are some things you're saying about his HR talk and whatnot being in attorney and whatnot that I also did find annoying. But like let's not pretend they were not doing a complete caricature.
>> What it does is it does like the light as tap but the skills he and he never is a guy who being a man is being crushed by HR. That's not happening. He's not soulless. He's not getting crushed. What he's upset by is that he can't find the sword. HR has nothing to do with his masculinity being crushed. which if it was actually saying HR was a bad thing, it would do. And he learns skills in HR that actually pay off at the end of the movie.
>> So HR is actually a good thing. That's the message.
>> Isn't a good thing though cuz it doesn't work for him in multiple instances throughout the film. HR holds him back from fulfilling his destiny and chasing his destiny, which is finding the sword so he can come back home. The first time >> HR doesn't he can't find the sword.
That's the problem. HR doesn't prevent him. He he finds it in regardless of HR.
>> Wait, wait, wait. HR does present prevent him from finding the sword.
That's why there's the whole like, hey, I'm going to need you to stop, >> right? You're going to get fired if you don't pay attent >> and then it goes nowhere. Like but the thing is though he quits his job his solar develop skills in HR to organize a prison escape help Duncan get back in touch with his feelings and also rally the men.
>> Okay.
>> HR is a bigger hero in the movie than He-Man is. Also like earlier Leon you were saying that like uh the this movie appealed to the 80s cartoon but I'm pretty sure Adam didn't have a HR job in the 80s cartoon. Also, the 80s cartoon when when it split Adam and He-Man, the the difference between uh Adam and He-Man was that He-Man was intelligent.
Like, he was pretending to be like a bumbling idiot, but he was super smart.
Adam uh and He-Man in this movie are really, really stupid. Like, he's just all bronze, no brain. His only superpower is empathy, which is very feminine coded.
>> This is where like I'm not saying this is a perfect movie by any means. Like, I gave this like a 5.5 out of 10 at most.
I just don't think I think people are harping on the wrong reasons to call it woke. Right. So there are definite writing issues, >> right? But um in terms of >> sorry there's several things again the HR thing as we said before but also he doesn't step up to become king after his father dies.
>> So again >> his mother takes over the role. He could still be king and behem. There's nothing against that.
>> But but the character is but everyone knows it's not King Adam. The character has always been Prince Adam, >> but King Randor's still alive in the in the show. So that's the thing. So you can't just go like, "Oh, the show is this." Because he's dead in the show.
They changed the source material. Not just that, a queen ruling alone. So Attorneyia is ruled by a monarchy. A Sorry, Vex. Go on. [laughter] I just saw the hands went to interrupt you again because people talking over each other can be annoying.
But I just wanted to Oh, [ __ ] Did I lose my point? Hold on. Hold on.
>> She had the hot. [laughter] >> Oh, okay. The writing the writing, right? The writing issue because I don't like it definitely could have done a better job at like showing that transition between Adam and He-Man, right? But the problem isn't even Travis Knight, the director for the film, came out and admitted this and they planned a whole trilogy for this. And you can tell that the way they've developed and established the character in this specific film is just so, oh, we can build and extend his arc later on in the other films. That is a fault of the writing. So, I agree with you that they could have done a much better job there.
I don't see the HR stuff as super egregious because the first time he uses it is when he first transforms into He-Man, right?
>> And he he's fighting some of Skeletor's guys. So, he tries to use it and it doesn't work. And he realizes, oh, I can't fight evil with this be the world that I've been growing up in for the last 15 years. I can fight bad guys with that because those are the rules there.
But that's not how things work here. So, he learns pretty quickly that he can't do that, right? When he uses the HR speak later on, again, the pacing for that section of the film was all over the place. I don't agree with how it came together. I think there was a better way that he could have approached the rallying call. But again, this is a character that spent most of his life and his developmental years in a world where, hey, this is how you approach problems. This is how he was conditioned to solve issues like social issues, right?
I can't I can't really say that's woke when it works in the context of a movie being made in 2026.
>> Well, when he he goes to confront Trap Jaw and as you said, the HR speak doesn't work and he get and he [clears throat] gets beaten up and he has to rely on masculinity. That's fine.
But what he does afterwards, he goes, I'm going to go there and I'm going to because he's now drunk on toxic masculinity. He says, I have the power of a god. He does all that. then goes there, tries to kick ass, which ends up in Randor being murdered. So, him trying to be the super promasculine route is actually a a negative in a long run because it gets his father killed.
>> I'm going to agree with you there.
Again, these are faults of the writing.
The writing is is not very good.
>> It tries to go for this middle of the ground feminized masculinity. He can't just go in and kill the bad guy. He has to, you know, work with people, explore his feelings. He has to >> And this is a fault of writing because you can tell that they're playing to set him up to realize that in >> Well, we're not going to get a set up.
Future movies are gone. This is all we're going to get. Vex, [laughter] >> also one of the biggest issues I have is where his power sort of stems from. like like traditional hero stories and heroes journeys have the main character going through a moral dilemma and having to make a critical choice to to determine who they're going to be. He doesn't make that choice. The power is given to him by that sorcerer woman that is very feminine coded. I mean that's a big issue that we had with like the the Marvel's movie. the she did doesn't make any significant decision to become this ultra powerful character. She was always powerful. It's just the world was holding her down. It's the same thing with He-Man. So I Yeah, I actually don't disagree with that as a criticism, but I think that's also one of the It's not just a problem of the writing this movie. I mean, it is, but it's not just that. It's also a problem when it comes to adapting these episodic '8s power fantasy things that didn't really have much story or character beyond, you know, Monster of the Week kind of stuff going on, which is how do you take a 22minute kids cartoon uh that was effectively a power fantasy and and translate that to a fulllength film with character arcs and whatnot while both honoring the source material and writing something that is, you know, actually has an arc to it. Uh that actually does take skill to do and obviously they they flubbed it here. the writing is bad. Um, but I again I I don't necessarily think that that's a I think it's a double-edged sword basically.
>> Well, the whole point is you need to have the feminized world is killing Adam. It's actually like crushing his spirits and he needs to embrace danger.
He needs to to eventually grow into He-Man. He needs a fault of the writing.
Yes, I agree with you there.
>> Another fault of the writing is, you know, even even though it's a short part of the film, I think it could have been even shorter. Uh, him being on Earth, we didn't need that. That's something that the [ __ ] '8s movie did because they didn't have the budget for Attorneyia and that's something that this movie did because I don't know why. That's not part of the He-Man mythos or lore. He's always been in Eternia. Like like I that didn't need to be there. And you could have mitigated this whole issue by just >> honoring frankly if if anything they should have pulled not from the 80s show even though that's the one everybody remembers of the toys for whatnot, but the 2002 reboot which actually has a narrative through line and is a legitimate show.
>> Best friends is crying to the notebook.
That's what I'm saying. Like he is surrounded by femininity and it's never viewed as a negative. It plays it's for a joke that trap jaw scene. You're 100% right, Vex. He does get like the [ __ ] kicked out of him because he tries it.
But then later on the movie, the sorceress gives him his power. And she also says your power is not strength like every other champion. It is humanity understanding feelings which are all female coded and you are the new type of man. That's what's really being pushed is that he is a modern man. He's not a man. He's not he man. He's a modern man.
>> A feminized >> man. This is an issue with the writing cuz you can't translate a character like that into 2026 where let's face it that is a that is a facet of today's audience. They are very feminine men.
They're kind of [ __ ] men. That's where Bear [ __ ] that's why Bear works in obsession so well. I would tell him. I would turn around, tell him, go look at you and just insult the audience. You wouldn't get your movie made. When Vex says you can't do that, what she's saying is no Hollywood studio is going to greenlight hyper macho masculine He-Man in today's day and age.
[clears throat] Unfortunately, it's and I don't like that. That's the world we live in. None of us do, but that is our reality.
>> True. But then you don't compromise. You have to accept that this is a not fully masculine film. This is feminized masculinity. And the problem is they're trying to sell that to boys and you go, "Well, no, this is this is a warped vision of what of what is a corrupted vision of what used to be a pure thing."
>> I I think the problem with the story is also it's confused. It's trying to support uh like HR and and the whole aspect of empathy, which is the reason why we have it beginning on Earth essentially, but it also tries to contradict that. who wants to make He-Man uh the hero of the film, but it undermines that by poking fun of him.
Like the the story is just tugging from one side to another. I mean, Jen Vorhees makes a really good point here as well, like Adam gets told his kindness and empathy make him better than past champions who were just brute strength.
He then proceeds to beat Skeletor with brute strength. Like, how is he different? So, >> he does it on behalf of a female authority figure. So that's why he's allowed to go full beast mode because a woman has deemed it appropriate.
>> Wasn't that like God?
>> I get why you're harping on the feminine themes of the movie. And to be fair, you're actually making a case for it that I don't necessarily disagree with in in totality. However, saying, "Oh, a woman, a woman, a woman with like if it was an all original character, whatnot, I would say you're spot on. But since these are existing characters from the 80s that were also like this in the cartoon, how else would you do it?" as someone who wants source material accur source material accuracy in anything that I consume like yeah the these were powerful female characters in the 80s cartoon so like I the the writing has to come we've done this with Spider-Man and Iron Man if you if you need the suit you shouldn't have it the power eventually become it comes from Tony Stark not the Iron Man suit right it comes from yeah that's the thing >> that that does not address my point in any way or form address >> I'm saying the the problem is the power is bestowed upon him by all the female characters like he never ever gets to a point where >> and that's also a problem with the original8s thing. That's what I'm saying is how much how much do you keep the same like the sorceress made the [ __ ] sword in in the original cartoon and in the comics as well.
>> He doesn't but that's fine but he doesn't accept his role as king and stuff like that and as you said the sorceress makes it explicitly clear that he's better than all the other champions because he embraces feminine qualities.
Well, show restrictiveness. That makes you a more masculine character. If you're not just acting on like your brute primal strength or instinct, you show self-control. That makes you more masculine.
>> We have an example of men being merciful, which is the knight, the chivalous knight. That's not feminine qualities. That's actually qualities.
>> Have you Have you seen One Piece out of curiosity?
>> Yeah.
>> Okay. So, you remember very early in One Piece when when it shows Shanks getting that [ __ ] drink dunked on him by the uh you by the other pirate and Luffy's ready to throw hands as a six-year-old and Shanks is like, "Man, don't worry about it. Hey, bro, I'mma buy you a drink and whatnot." And and Luffy's like, "Why the [ __ ] would you doing that?" And he's like, >> "Sometimes you just got to know to picking battles, not all of it's worth it." Like, how is the the He-Man situation really any different than the masculinity or how is that different than what Vex pointed out about masculinity, which is being measured?
The film attributes that as female qualities when they're not male qualities could shanks could kill everyone in that room and he doesn't.
>> He could but the the fact that he's measured he doesn't. And again that's the argument of X making about He-Man which I don't think is incorrect. So how the two >> the film thinks that's feminine qualities when it's not. It's like being merciful being chivalous being pious.
They're not female qualities. You can actually see these. You can actually see these represented in the night which is you know Aragon. Aragon can kill people but he's also incredibly he actually has healing powers.
>> He shows restraint though and he also shows compassion in many instances >> which saying that that's not >> like we're not saying that's not masculine because Tony does bring >> Reaper did he's may not meant to say it.
That's [laughter] >> no say that he may have phrased it poorly.
>> Let let me read this and I'll sort of rearticulate what what Reaper meant. So being able to show kindness, restraint, and resolve conflicts with peace, but being able to use brutal strength, violence when necessary is a definition of traditional masculinity. I don't have a disagreement with that. The issue is that the movie frames that quality as feminine.
>> I is it feminine because women are the ones that like initiate it? Is that how it's feminine?
>> No, because he never comes from self.
Like say before with like Shanks as you said, Shanks can be restraint because he has the power.
>> Whereas Adam's power is not his. It's never his. And the only attributes you can say are that come from Adam are the skills he learns at HR.
>> But how is Hold on. How's the power not his? I'm very confused about that.
>> No, no. I actually can explain I can explain this because I do I do see where Reaper is coming from and I do kind of agree with it. And this is a writing issue because you can tell that they're trying to like put that off to the side to explore in later movies. So yeah, the power isn't completely but also yeah, we're not going to get those for sure now, right?
>> But on top of that, like it's >> like the movie does a pretty clear job, I think, of establishing that this is a guy that's kind of lost in between. He was a weird goofy kid who didn't follow the path that was set for him. He got like literally ripped out of that world before he could realize that and then he spent most of his life in a complete 180 of what he grew up experiencing. So there's going to be a very severe disconnect. The writing doesn't do a good job of melding those together and helping him evolve into He-Man. But again, they try to offset that for later movies as well.
>> Yeah, but he's he's consistently undermined, right? Like everybody sees him as a joke. like the people that are trying like not only is he humiliated as Adam in the real world by the HR department but he's also humiliated in Antonio by the people that he looked up to. I mean the movie literally ends with him calling himself He-Man and them mocking him saying that he's going to do like a costume change and there's that gay joke like about everybody knows you know that he's doing a costume change.
It's sort of implying that everybody knows that he is a homosexual and that he's, you know, >> well, [laughter] I think like back to the, you know, whether the power is his or whatnot, like you were saying back, I believe it was backstage, you've been watching, you know, My Hero Academia and, uh, sorry to keep making anime comparisons, but this is rolling up the ton tonight. Um, All Might bestows the power of, you know, One for All on to to Deku. in the entirety of My Hero Academia is Deku eventually gaining that power, it truly being his. And >> let me hold on. My point is what Vex is saying, and I think she's correct, is that we would have seen a journey like that if this movie were to get sequels.
Now again, it's bombed. It's not getting any sequels. But that is what this these He-Man movies would have tried to do and and would have maybe or maybe not successfully, don't know, had we gotten this to be an actual franchise. I I to say that it's a failure of this movie when obviously there was additional stories to be told that would have been similar to >> it. It doesn't matter if their plan was to give him a hero's journey in film too. The role of like a film is to display that hero's journey. You can add other aspects of that journey in like the sequels, but he needs to figure out who he is and become the hero that we know he is by the end of the first film.
And he doesn't that's an issue with the writing that I completely agree with.
>> See Vex, you said he gets stripped away and he doesn't learn to become the man he should have been. Yeah.
>> But the problem is the film views that as actually a negative because King Randor in captivity says when he's dying, I actually didn't know how much pain this caused you. If he actually said, I was trying to make you a man because you're going to be king. You you have a massive responsibility. that would make much sense. But it actually views what he did as a negative because he said I only did it the only way I know how because you know I that was done to me. Generational trauma it's trying to say. And >> you know what? I would concede that point to you then. I I you know what?
You've opened my eyes a little bit, Reaper. I'm going to agree with you there.
>> I win. [laughter] >> Again, like I have a lot of issues with the writing in this film. [laughter] I like I don't think it's perfect by any means, but I do feel that people are nitpicking on this a little bit too much. That that's really my where most of my point lies. And also, Carvajio, I do know what masculinity is. I have a whole predator video about what masculinity is.
[laughter] >> You boy, what day is it? Well, it's Christmas Day. That's a discourage.
>> A woman admitted she was wrong. Double Christmas Day. [laughter] >> Like, yeah, as you said, like a lot of it is just writing pro like I think it needed another draft and it could have >> a couple more drafts. Yeah, >> I'm doing a [ __ ] cartwheel. I've never done one. I'm going for it.
>> The like the the like He-Man needing three movies to tell its full arc is just a symptom of like current day writing in general. Like nobody knows how to just write one movie and have it be a movie on its own. Like this is a big problem with Marvel that we've seen over the last decade as well. Like he like Iron Man, the first Iron Man movie, it is a contained story. You can continue it if you want. They do. It doesn't work very well. But you don't see that with any of the other characters. And you see the same issue here now is like no one can just write a strong contained story anymore.
>> Yeah.
not just >> that nobody can write a strong self-contained story and that they can't write a hero's journey. It's that they lack sincerity. Like one of my biggest I would have been okay with all of the issues that He-Man had if it was sincere in its delivery. Like it takes the piss out of He-Man. It takes the piss out of Eternia. It takes the piss out of the entirety of the IP while trying to tell the hero's journey and failing miserably. Like that's one of the major issues I have with this movie. Well, I will say like the comparison of the MCU, I do think there is one kind of key difference between He-Man and and the later stage MCU. Later stage MCU was out the gate like it was intentional to feminize wokeify, whatever you want to call it, to put these messages in there to send the these like subversive signals. With He-Man, it's so mismatch and inconsistent. I truly think it's I I don't know. I can't actually say that.
Oh, they did this intentionally so much so as they're just they're hacked. They didn't know what they were doing.
>> How many writers did this film have?
>> Probably too [ __ ] many.
>> Too many.
>> That's a good question.
>> Cuz I think cuz again like when you have the Dunkin moment where he says it's it's the men who go out and fight, not poets. Like that's all really good dialogue. The problem is the person delivering it is a loser. He's drunk.
He's a coward. It doesn't quite work.
That's what I'm saying. Like if Duncan was a really respectable male role model figure, it would hit so much harder. It would be sincere. But >> that's why I, you know, made the the comparison to the MCU or or I guess kind like correct the comparison to the MCU is because it that's this movie is so inconsistent and that there are things about their good. That's why I mean I assume Vex, you know, you gave you know five or 5.5. It's very middle of the road because it's so lopsided inconsistent. Whereas the MCU, at least later stage MCU, is als but but [laughter] at least it's consistent. This movie isn't, which is why I think this is like a case of these are just hacks that, you know, grew up without any sort of struggle. So don't know how to write masculinity, even if that even if there was at least from some of the writers, you know, maybe an earnest attempt as opposed to there's actual ideological subversion embedded within the MCU by design.
This is nowhere near as bad as Kevin Smith's though because Kevin Smith was pure woke [ __ ] and he killed He-Man in the first episode. He killed him and then >> wasn't the animation about >> Yes. [laughter] >> Yeah.
>> Yeah. So what happens is he dies in the first episode and King Randall's like, "I can't believe my son's dead." And Tila makes it about her and goes she goes, "Fuck you all."
>> [laughter] >> She just tells the king who lost his son to go [ __ ] himself. Then later on, she goes to heaven to rescue Adam's soul.
>> And then ends up blowing up heaven. So there's only hell. There's not there's not the void, it's just hell. And then Adam goes, "Why you such a [ __ ] I died." And she went, "Yeah, but I had to live with it." Like she's such a [ __ ] [sighs] Sorry. Sorry.
>> Finish that. No, finish with that.
Sorry. Well, she ends up becoming a [ __ ] evil Lynn is uh obviously misunderstood and she ends up becoming like a [ __ ] god and then a just awful.
>> Um, so like Wikipedia says Oh yeah, there we go. I was going to say it.
Wikipedia lists four, but like those don't include ghostriters which never get credits, right? So you can tell that too many hands were working on this because yeah, there's a lot of inconsistent issu uh or sorry consistency issues. There's inconsistent tone. Even just like the nature or like of the the humor in the movie changes quite drastically from beginning to end.
The pacing is all over the place in that middle part in particular. So >> I mean shame it had potential in my opinion.
>> The the humor is consistent in that it's consistently gay. [laughter] >> I mean he is a gay icon. So >> he most certainly is. I I think the reason it had six story screenwriters is it comes down to the writer strike where they petitioned to have uh at least six writers and I rarely is a movie good that has more than two writers. Even two I I think is is too many people because you have competing ideas of what the characters should be doing, what their objectives are, their motivations, what their beginning, middle, and end should be, what the resolution will look like, what the tone of the humor is, you know, the the mood, the atmosphere, the setting. Like, it's just conflicting ideas. And so, yeah, I mean, and I brought this up yesterday on the DY stream. Imagine if every movie had like six screenwriters, six directors, six cinematographers. Um it would just be an absolute mess.
>> Uh but I I wanted to I was hoping to discuss Toy Story 5, but uh I haven't seen it and uh the doulies are dealing with some internet issues. So we might save that discussion for for next year.
>> Never because it doesn't exist. Toy Story 5 can suck a dick.
>> It does exist. But I wanted to discuss something interesting and it's part of a couple of discussions we've had on multiple streams, right? I I just want you guys to look at the reported box office budget for Jurassic World Dominion. Right. On the numbers, it says that the budget was 185. Okay. I also want you to take a look at uh Star Wars Force Awakens, which at the time of its release was the most expensive film ever made at 533.
>> And then we eventually found out that Dominion was uh the most expensive movie ever made uh for 465 million. Uh we've got this article here that says that uh the the production cost was 584 million and that surpassed the Star Wars Force Awakens which actually cost 512 million.
Now uh they were able to um save a bit of money from the UK's like uh film tax relief program that you [clears throat] know sort of saved them 115 million. But there's this is what I mean when when we get reported box office budgets for films just wait for them to start filing their finances like 6 months to a year later and the true number comes out like yeah it it cost 600 million [ __ ] dollars not including marketing which would have been another I'd assume between 300 to to 600 million because generally speaking with big budget movies they spend as much on production on marketing as they do on production.
So yeah, Jurassic World Dominion may have made a billion at the box office, right? But if you include its production and marketing, at minimum, it >> means it lost money.
>> At minimum, the the it cost like 900 million. And even if they made a billion dollars, they would have needed to have made 1.8 billion. But if you if you if you take into consideration that they likely spent as much on the marketing as they did on the production, which means 600 million on marketing, then the movie actually cost them 1.2 billion. So they would have needed to have made 2.4 billion for this to break even. So this is just [ __ ] lunacy.
>> I So sorry, if you go back to that article, I just had a question there.
>> Mhm.
>> So hold on. So which what is the so is it 465 million after that UK tax credit >> correct?
>> Okay.
>> But the real cost is 584 >> right before the Okay.
>> How much did it make Dominion >> 1 billion?
>> So it lost money.
>> It lost money.
>> It lost nearly a billion dollars at [laughter] saying this was a success >> because if you Yeah. If you if you look at this here, 185 million was the original production budget. And they're like worldwide box office is 5.5 5.4 times the production budget. That's absolutely incorrect.
>> Oh, they lie about everything now. Like remember James Gun saying Superman was like 200 million and it got leaked. It was like 360 something and then he he just instead of admitted he lied, he just went uh somebody committed fraud.
[laughter] >> I could be wrong. I could swear that it was reported that eventually came out that Indiana Jones 5 was almost 500 million before marketing.
>> Oh, that one I could believe because that one how many re-shoots they did. It was just nonstop because Phoebe Waller Bridge was awful. She's like cancer.
She's coming back.
>> That was filmed during lockdowns as well, wasn't it?
>> Yeah.
>> Oh my god. The the plane gets taken down by Ballistas from Rome.
>> Ah, sorry.
419 million UK tax rebate uh brought the net production cost down to 352. But yeah, so yeah, Indiana Jones 49 million for marketing.
>> Nobody should should be spending half a billion dollars on a film. Like that's insanity.
>> Inflation's kicked in. All our money is worth half of what it was five years ago. Anyway, >> sorry. What were the Okay, what were the numbers for um abortion Jurassic World abortion?
>> [laughter] >> I thought you just going to ask how many abortions a year we because of that movie. [laughter] You see the movie and the woman just runs into a kitchen counter. [laughter] I'm having a son that's going to be in the same world as Jurassic World Dominion. [laughter] >> I'm just because that had a pretty big budget. I remember and I think it only made like 750 800 million at the box office.
Hold on, I'm trying to pull up its numbers now. So, uh, Jurassic World Rebirth, according to this, cost 225 million and made 872 million at the worldwide box office. But I I remember at the time when I released my video, uh, there were reports that it actually cost upwards of 400 million, >> not including marketing. Like these movies >> failures. They're absolute failures.
>> Oh my god.
>> Isn't it? Everyone's everyone's fleeing Hollywood now because the costs are just insane.
>> Like the production companies, you mean?
>> Yeah. Like everyone everyone like they're trying to go to Georgia. They're trying to go to the UK or Hungary or anywhere else. Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Well, because there's there's extra taxes for I mean for the longest time LA was the hub of Hollywood. It is no longer because of all the uh there's no incentive to film anything in in Los Angeles now. Movies cost so much money to film there, which is why you're right, they're moving to Georgia. Uh they're moving to Australia as well. A lot of movies are being shot in Sydney and and Queensland >> because it's so cheap. And we also offer tax incentives like the UK.
>> It's always been dirt cheap to film in Canada. A lot of big Hollywood productions come and film in Toronto and Vancouver. A lot of them.
>> Which was it? the revenants where they were talking about it was actually cheaper to take everything from Canada cuz they said the um they had like a Thor and he needed snow and he flew everyone down to Argentina to redo [laughter] the shots. That was cheaper than just adding like fake snow and all these other rules and [ __ ] Like it's just insane. Getting on a plane and moving 300 people's cheaper.
>> That's crazy.
>> Uh it's just a fact.
Now, have you guys uh seen this? The Avengers if it was made in the 80s.
>> Oh, yeah.
>> No.
>> We got Sylvester Stallone as Tony Stark.
There is copyrighted music underneath this. Okay. Kurt Russell as Steve Rogers.
>> I'm on board with that one.
>> Michelle Fefeifer as Remanov.
>> Sure.
>> Black Widow.
>> Clint Eastwood as Nick Fury.
>> That's a good cast.
>> Dolph London is [laughter] Paul.
>> Yes.
Pierce Bros.
>> I like that one too. Yeah.
>> Carl Weathers is Tala. Yeah, [laughter] >> dude.
>> Demi Mo is Wonder Maximoff. I mean, that's fine.
>> Gary Oldman is Loki. [laughter] >> Could you imagine?
>> I don't know that one.
>> Michael J. Fox is Peter Parker.
>> I can see that one.
>> Yeah.
[laughter] Like if it was sincere and it was retro be awesome cuz we said before like all the modern stuff nowadays goes like look how old we are like that's all to just be full of >> oh [ __ ] sorry going back to the previous discussion of box office numbers there was a third article that I found that uh there was another analysis done uh Universal Pictures spent 658 million for Jurassic World Dominion.
>> That's nice.
[laughter] And Star Wars Reboot actually cost 638 million. So it still costs more than that. But yeah, they severely under reported how much these movies cost.
>> Didn't they say when Infinity War came out, they didn't make that much profit despite the fact pulling like three billion or something?
>> Yeah.
>> Because of the production cost. It was the same with um because uh last year we had that oh god what was the it was Forbes that did the breakdown of all the Star Wars movies and it turns out that none of the Star Wars movies under Disney were profitable because of how [laughter] much the budgets were. Yeah. It's it's cra like the which is the one that made a billion?
>> Uh Rise of Skywalker.
>> Yeah. So it turns out like after the budget and incentives and everything that only made like I think it was $50 million profit. Oh, that one was tons of re-shoots because they had to come in and get J.J. Abrams and he could he they were filming like to like the final minute. They just couldn't get any because nobody liked any cuts. The one with the least problems was Ryan Johnson which killed [laughter] the French.
>> I'm pretty sure there was actually a well I don't know about a cut of the film. There was a script before Ryan Johnson made by um what's the guy's name? [ __ ] >> I just mean in terms of like interfering with production. and Kathleen Kennedy left Rian Johnson alone cuz she interfered all the others. Remember, what was it? 80% of Solo was filmed by >> uh the the original script for Star Wars Duel the Face um the original episode 9 by Colin Travaro was actually uh and you can find the script online. It's >> notably better. I'm going to say no.
>> I mean, somehow Palpatine returned is like a meme now. It just it just came back.
Yeah, I doubt that again.
>> Uh, Infinity War and Endgame cost 500 mil for production. Uh, like is that each or together? I doubt it's together.
I think that's probably the cost for >> Oh, it's definitely higher. Yeah.
>> I I just wanted to point >> Oh, he says each >> each. Okay. Yeah. No, that makes sense.
That makes sense.
>> And and Vex, apply the same logic to the $2 billion budget GTA 6 that's about to come out. reportedly $2 billion budget GTA 6. [clears throat] >> Jesus. But that's going to like people going to murder each other for that game.
>> Oh, and to be fair, they're going to when GTA 6 online comes out, they're going to end up making it all back over years upon years of Micros. But billion dollars for video game and like like it's >> that's a fraction thing. No matter what the industry is is my point. Like >> I I can understand that for GTA though because GTA 5 has been out for like 10 11 years and has been making like a billion per year just from the online gameplay J cards. So >> and that's what I'm saying. It's $2 billion. It's going to make its money back over the course of all the time what not. But the fact of the matter is we shouldn't be seeing $2 billion budgets for video games. We shouldn't be seeing half a billion dollar budgets for movies. Every entertainment industry in this regard is [ __ ] cooked.
>> It is cooked. You want to know something crazy, Nat? It's not even a billion a year. There was a financial report that came out a couple months ago, and it was like the >> the profits for all Rockstar, like active Rockstar online games between, I think it was September 2025 and March 2026.
>> And GTA 5 just with shark cards generated over a billion in that time period, 13 years after release.
>> That's crazy.
>> Yeah. And this is why they didn't drop GTA 6 is because >> if GTA 6 ends up being worse than GTA 5, all of that money that they were getting for GTA 5 is just it's gone. It's completely gone. I mean I mean they still make money, but it would it would diminish, I think, significantly. I I don't think that it's going to flop in any regard cuz like one of the interesting things about GTA 5 was that it was an onboarding point for quite literally three different generations of GTA fans because it came out over so many consoles as well. Um so the fan base just kept growing and growing and growing for it and that's why GTA 6 now has I didn't like GTA 5 personally.
>> I I didn't either or four and I I agree with you financially it's not going to be a flop. Not in the slightest. do think that it's going to have a very short honeymoon phase and it will um it'll be looked at kind of like ingame.
People will be hyped about it for three months. Then it'll be like me >> I agree there.
>> Go ahead.
>> We already talked about raising the price from like 70 pounds or whatever dollars to 100 >> to1.
>> So you're already you're paying more.
>> You know what this is unnecessary because the movie is going to make its money back. But I I do think this is going to be like a phenomenon because there's a lot of companies that are already anticipating people are going to take time off work. So Burger Motorsports is shutting down operations on November 19, the day that GTA 6 launches after realizing so many employees plan to take off for the launch of GTA 6. So >> this was a thing for GTA 5 as well. I don't know if anyone remembers.
>> This is a thing for Halo 3 if people remember.
>> Yeah. So companies are like shutting down operations on the day that a game launches because nobody's going to come in to work. That's kind [laughter] of insane.
>> Have you looked at the release schedule?
So like all the so cuz every game was like, "Oh, we got to like work around GTA 6." So we have a bunch of games dropping between September 24th and 26th. Then we have another batch of games dropping on October 6th, right?
And 13th. Then there's nothing. GTA.
>> There's nothing until like November.
October has like one week of game releases and there's nothing until November. It's It's [ __ ] crazy. And like I haven't like I haven't like GTA since the PS2 era. Those are the games.
San Andreas 5. Those are great. I like four, didn't five. I I don't give a [ __ ] about this. They're not releasing a day and date on PC. But the fact of the matter is though, like this is one of those like siminal moments in entertainment history that we'll be able to be like, man, y'all remember that GTA 6 release?
Like it's it's going to be like you remember how like for a week after 911, the country was just I guess I'm the only American here, so maybe none of you guys remember, but anyway, a week after 911, basically that the country was just shut the [ __ ] down.
>> GTA 6 is going to be like a gamers 911, and I don't know if that's good or bad.
What the [ __ ] Oh, >> the world had shut down. Like I mean for after 911. I don't know what you're talking about. I remember where I was.
>> Well, I knew all the trains and stuff, dude. I didn't know if your guys' like business like full on businesses and everything.
>> No, no, no. Businesses were still running as per usual.
>> It Oh, go ahead.
>> My My school could not have given a [ __ ] cuz I was like 10 at the time and you just went whatever and just made >> We were watching it live in my school when it happened. I watched the [ __ ] plane hit the second tower.
>> We were at a sports carnival like uh doing athletics and I think I was like grade four or five and all the teachers were just crying and they were like the world is over. We're going >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> My teachers went, "Oh yeah, a plane a plane did somebody. Anyway, get back to maths." just >> I think GTA 6 regardless of the quality of the actual game, it'll be fine. It'll do fine. People are going to love it. I don't think it'll have a honeymoon phase just because of again how much content is usually packed into these and we're going to see a revival of like GTA uh online gaming content for streamers. GTA 6 online will not maybe GTA 5 online cuz you got to remember GTA 5 is a different game than GTA 5 online. They are separate games.
>> I'm aware.
>> So well I'm saying that like for the audience just in case. I figured you know that you're a gamer. Um so GTA 6 online is also going to be a separate release later down the road. Uh when I when I say it's gonna have a short honeymoon, a short honeymoon phase is because I think that Rockstar has promised so incredibly much just like Endgame did. And then again there people like loved it at first, but I think eventually most a lot of people I don't know about most, but a lot of people will come to the conclusion again we came to about Endgame, which is yeah, it actually didn't really deliver the way we thought it did. We were just caught up in the hype cycle. I again I think this speaks more to like the cyclical nature of just audiences in general, right? Cuz again, gaming is so much bigger. So like I I understand the comparison you're making and I feel like more or less it's accurate, but because like these games tend to be the jumping off point for a brand new fan base and brand new gamers, they never really lose hype the same way as a movie does.
That's why I think GTA 5 was able to last as long as it did and bring in as much money as it did because it roped in several new generations of gamers. It was the first game that a lot of people would purchase with whatever console they got on top of that. So that's why I think like GTA uh 6 will be totally fine in the long term. I don't think there won't be will be a honeymoon. gamers have like a symbiotic relationship. Like every single streamer will be pushing this as far as it can and milking it every second of the day. So, everyone on YouTube is going to be playing GTA 5, sorry, GTA 6.
>> Yeah.
>> I also and I actually don't think Vex is wrong about the onboarding aspect and whatnot. I just think that that I don't think they're giving the full credit due to so much so much of GTA 5 success is directly tied to GTA online. That's what's kept the community vibrant, growing because while yes, they've they've ported GTA 5 for three console generations now, all the new content and all the things that keep people coming back are being added to GTA 5 online.
So, I think that you're going to have a relationship like that with GTA 6 online. So, that's why it won't fail itself.
>> Yeah, >> that that reason I was pointing out that they are technically separate releases because I think that what you're describing will actually mostly be carried on through GTA 6 online, not GTA 6 vanilla. I think I just lumped them together because like you have to buy one or the other and Rockstar classifies them together. So I >> No, the reason I specify they're separate releases is Rockstar actually and I because I was arguing with Kate about this and I actually went and source quotes from Rockstar. They separate Rock Rockstar looks them as separate things.
>> Okay. Wait, so copies sold is different then?
>> Uh I don't know about copies sold. The uh the quote from Rockstar was that they consider I'm paraphrasing paraphrasing they consider GTA 5 and and GTA V online to be separate releases and separate games and so there so I I don't know if they track the numbers together much because we know how much they >> Yeah. See that's where the confusing part is for me because like how do they distinguish the sales?
>> I've not looked into that but I can I can do a quick Google search because that is a good question.
While you do that, we we do have a super chat that came in from Rossy much earlier uh saying Vex is very masculine.
That's what I love about her. That's referring to Reaper's argument that women don't understand masculinity.
Thank you so much, Rossy, our short king.
>> I'll talk down to you any day you want, Rossy.
>> Oh, they do combine. They combine them for their financial reports, even though there being separate leases. That's a [ __ ] tricky thing right there cuz that does not match what they said in interviews and [ __ ] >> So that's why I lumped them together.
>> No. No. No. And and that makes perfect sense. I The reason I don't lump them together is because of what they said about them being considered separate games, separate releases. I That's That's some [ __ ] game company book work right there.
>> Yeah.
>> I was going to ask, what do you guys think of the GTA 6 cover? Looks uh >> Don't do this. Please don't do this.
Please, please do it because I GTA go off on this guy cuz first of all, I've got a tweet right now doing very well about this dumbass bisexual lighting [ __ ] >> What's the difference? This is feels like the pan from the office uh meme.
Like, what's the difference between this [laughter] and this? It's the same image.
>> Go on, Leon.
>> Like, okay, I'll just do the quick version what I said on X yesterday. Just go like my tweet if you haven't seen it.
Um, it is this quote unquote bisexual lighting thing is [ __ ] [ __ ] This used to be called vapor wave or synth wave. This is one of the most common color schemes for millennials because it's this is inherently a nostalgia bait color scheme. We all, you know, we we all saw the the, you know, vapor weight vapor wave, you know, posters and aesthetics in our '9s video games. The people that were playing games that their parents were buying them as kids are now the adults buying games. This is that that's why Into the Spider-Verse uses this. That's why this video game is using it. That's why you've got uh uh you know, several movies using this.
[ __ ] what was the name? Far Cry 3 used this color scheme on the Xbox 360.
It is one of the most common color schemes. It's the [ __ ] color scheme I use in my lighting for all my Sunday stuff.
>> Blood Dragon. Sorry. Far Cry Blood Dragon did it.
>> Blood Dragon. Thank you. Yeah, Far Cry Blood Dragon. My bad. um like it this vapor wave or synth wave aesthetic is just it's visually pleasing to the eyes and we're seeing now I think it's being over I think it's it's completely oversaturated everything is doing it now and it's losing its luster um but there's nothing like woke or whatever about it like the internet's trying to claim it's [ __ ] >> but it's gay now [laughter] >> but there's there was a tweet from uh was it Grumsex that you responded to where he's like oh the the LGBTQ community have hijacked the color purple and deep red. And so now everything that has that color is is gaycoded or something to that regard. And you tore him apart. Like >> do you do you know where this actually originated? Cuz I do. I remember where I was when this originated on the internet.
>> I remember where I was talking about. Go ahead.
>> Tumblr tried to make this a thing [laughter] 15 years ago. Okay.
>> Tumblr. Yep. Tumblr.
>> Tumblr tried to make this lighting, right? They really tried to make this a thing like 15 years ago and nobody took it seriously whatsoever. I think the better explanation and we're seeing this across you know TV and film as well is that a lot of the people that are getting hired on in particular to like these bigger you know AAA or even double A projects they just kind they don't really have much imagination or creativity so they just kind of follow what a general trend is or what the market research is telling them and playing it safe rather than doing something interesting. So I think and on top of that like these are very vibrant colors that like in you know it would typically grab your eye because of that and that works in a video game format as well. So >> especially one that takes place in Miami. This is a very Miami kind of aesthetic and what you you've been to Florida. You [ __ ] know this Vex.
>> Yeah. So, I I just I I I also think that anti-wokes trying to now legitimize or give levity to woke ideology is just the absolute peak of this part of the online culture war. Like, >> when it's an interesting thing because when do you admit that something's changed and something that was straight is now gay? Like handlebar mustaches. I see a guy with that. I don't think he's straight. But that used to be very masculine back in the day.
>> Well, because that to be fair, hipsters have always done this, which is co-op masculinity and make it for [ __ ] So >> that's the thing. So like at what point do you admit it's gone? It's because that that trans flag with the was it blue pink?
>> Blue, pink, and white.
>> Yeah. Like there's a point where you see some of that and you go, "Okay, pedophile."
>> Well, that was the thing with the with the pride flag, right? It was like they took the rainbow thing so then you couldn't see rainbows without thinking about gay. Cuz I remember I had like tons of like rainbow socks and everything in high school and I stopped wearing them because everyone immediately associated it with gay.
>> To me though, it's how much power you're willing to give it. Right.
>> When I was 13 years old, I went to buy Journeys Greatest Hits cuz at the time I thought Journey was a good band cuz it was [ __ ] [ __ ] And I picked the CD up to buy it and I was in like Walmart CD warehouse with my dad and he goes, "Oh wow, you're really frying the rainbow flag with that purchase." And I didn't know what it meant.
>> Journey is still a good band. What are you talking about?
>> Say that again.
>> Journey still a good band. [laughter] >> I I I don't like slow Journey. They've got like, as someone who does like slow music, likes ballads and whatnot. I like Journey when they're playing like, you know, fast actual rock music. I'm not I I don't like their ballads and I I do think Don't Stop Believing is an incredibly overrated song. But Wheel in the Sky is a banger.
>> I like Wheel in the Sky. Yeah.
>> [sighs] >> Well, let's let's move on and pivot to a movie that I watched yesterday, which is The Death of Robin Hood. Um, now I was uh >> I was really skeptical going into this one. You know, we watched the trailers here a couple weeks back and it seemed as though uh just a typical modern Hollywood >> habit of deconstructing beloved heroes and legends and dragging them into a dark room and and deconstructing them until there's nothing left of the character. Um, but I I think too often those types of stories mistake cynicism for for depth and they assume the most interesting thing you can do with a character whose story's been told to death is to uh reveal that they were secretly awful all along. And that this movie doesn't do that. Like >> the when it begins, the death of Robin Hood initially looks like it's heading down that road and the opening 20 minutes are very dark, very brutal, very [ __ ] violent. Like this is probably one of the more violent films I've seen in quite some time. And Robin Hood is presented as a almost like a force of nature. Definitely a force of destruction. Like you see people uh stabbed, crushed, shot by arrows, butchered by him and around him with alarming regularity. Uh, and yet I think unlike many modern reconstructions of of beloved heroes, the film isn't interested in tearing him down simply for the sake of it, this movie portrays him as both a hero in the eyes of the people he helped and a monster in the eyes of families whose loved ones were taken. Um, and the character in his final arc is trying to reconcile who he is and what he means to different people. Uh, well, everybody's trying to kill him essentially.
>> Um, so yeah, like the director, Michael Sinoski, he did Pig with Nicholas Cage and that was what sort of lured >> It's a very good movie if no one's seen it by the way.
>> A highly good movie. Yeah. And that was what lured >> Oh, yeah. Pig is awesome.
>> Mhm. That was what >> Oh, is this the same director [ __ ] Pig and and Death of Robin Hood?
>> Yes, sir. Yeah, >> that does sell me on a little bit more because again, the marketing I'm glad you're saying all this positive stuff about the movie not being a deconstruction like that because I'm going be real. That's what the marketing let me believe. And [ __ ] this movie because of it was the mentality I had.
>> Yeah. I mean, he he's definitely seen as a monster, but only by the people that uh obviously the the families of the people that he butchered and of course are going to see him as that. And it's sort of like the cycle of violence of there's this beautiful line where he's just like uh I've killed many fathers.
I've I've killed many grandfathers and their sons have come after me and therefore I've killed fathers and uh their children have gone after me and I've killed generations of families and um and he's he's constantly having to look over his shoulder as a result of that. and he's questioning what it all meant despite the fact that he's helped a lot of people along the way.
>> So the the original narrative of stealing from King John and the sheriff is true. It's just that the sheriff and the people aligned with the king are the ones he's murdered and they're after him or >> it's not just the the king and the sheriff. He's killed lots of people because he's done a lot of pillaging of stealing from the rich. Yes, he did.
That's still established in this. So, um the the the director digs into some of the early ballads of of Robin Hood and he's basically built a movie around one of the ballots which depicts how he dies at a prairie uh in I think Northern Island. And um yeah, like he yeah, I I don't know what to say beyond recommending this movie cuz uh I was really disappointed that there was only one session time here in Sydney. I went to see it last night with uh my girlfriend and um she was shocked by the brutality in the opening 20 minutes and then she was really moved by the ending of the film. Um >> yeah, go ahead.
>> Yeah, cuz like >> Oh, I I do have a question. So, I'm not like super familiar with like the tales of Robin Hood or anything, but if I read the Merry Tales of Robin Hood and went into this, would I be quite happy?
>> Well, the Mary Tales of Robin Hood are a collection of stories based on one ballad, but there's multiple ballads.
There's a lot of songs that were sang about him um throughout time. Uh so, >> right. You can find it in a lot of used bookstores. I've had this since I was about 9 years old. go get this book.
>> Okay. Because I'd like to I'd like to read them before I go into our >> But you'd also need to you'd also need to read uh some of the other ballads as well um about how he died and what the last chapters of his life were like. I I will say this the film making in this movie is remarkable like the cinematography creates this medieval world that feels tangible and lived in.
but most importantly dangerous. Like the the elements are unforgiving uh just as unforgiving as the people depicted within it. The violence is super visceral. Um and some points heads into exploitative territory. Like there's some very Tarantino type violence in this movie. And there's there's also a lot of uh introspective moments uh dealing with characters dealing with the fallout of all the violence that they've experienced and have have taken taken part in. Uh the character work is phenomenal. The performances I think this might be Hugh Jackman's best performance. It's >> wow. It has it has a lot of sim similarities to to Logan in that we're seeing a beloved mythic character at the end of his road. I'll leave it at that, but all of the actors in this are superb. Little John is played by Bill Scarsgard and I did not recognize him in this movie. Um, the dialogue is superb.
There's just so many brilliant lines in this. Like there's one line where uh he's constantly confronted by people he's either helped or destroyed and he has this beautiful line where he says stories we can't trust any of them and we cannot be trusted with any of them as in to say that >> nobody telling any particular story has ever has the full picture of of what's taken taken place. So yeah, if you're disappointed by Hollywood film making, I recommend this one. Like this is this is a great film.
>> I was planning to go see it next weekend. So I'm very much so looking forward to it now.
>> Yeah. I'm It's not to say that it doesn't have its flaws. Like the the pacing is a bit off. And I think if you go into the movie expecting the entirety of the film to be brutal and extremely violent, like you will get that in the first act, but the the movie isn't about that. It's about the fallout of the violence that we see in the beginning and the violence that took place before the story even began. So yeah.
>> Gotcha.
>> So like it doesn't he doesn't have him going like Jon Snow going, I don't want it. I never wanted my bow. He just he he did he accepts the things he's done but they weren't necessary or he regrets I suppose that spoiler film is it's that's heading into spoiler territory. Um, yeah.
>> It's just not necessarily that that he regrets what he did, but he's he's just confronting the fact that he did some atrocious things, right? Like um and and what what that means for his soul essentially.
>> Because the thing is that the problem with the film, as as Leon said, it looks like a complete deconstruction plus the title is the death of Robin Hood. So it's like >> in the post he was no hero.
>> Yeah. Well, what he was murdered, right?
Like in in one of the ballads, he heads to a prairie and um he dies as a result of uh uh the actions of his cousin who was a nurse that was working on him and she performs like a bloodletting procedure uh that basically drains him of blood. Like that's one of the ballads uh in there and there's many many different ballads that sing about the way that the way that he died. Um >> I'm just saying it's the combination of the name and the fact that the marketing was Robin Hood was was always a piece of [ __ ] It seems like we're trying to kill and see the marketing is just really >> No, no, I I get that. I get that. And even the he's no hero tagline. It's not to say that he wasn't a hero, but that that the tagline is almost written by the families of the people that uh that were touched by the violence that he committed. For sure.
>> I think >> like one hero is another man's monster or something like that. Still, >> again, I mean, you know, something that still doesn't take away, but just different perspective on on the legend, which this sounds like this film is what it is.
>> Yeah. oftentimes the the director is not in charge of the marketing. We've seen that happen time and time again. Um but this is kind of sad. So one of the world's most famous trees has died after standing in England's Sherwood Forest for around a thousand years. Uh this major oak tree was linked to to Robin Hood and now it's kind of yeah it's failed to produce leaves this year after years of heat and drought. Were you aware of this? it misses is that a lot of tourists kept stepping around it which compacted [gasps] this oil.
>> [ __ ] >> And so >> you you bastards, you killed it.
[laughter] >> But yeah, um yeah, it it is strange though. Like it is older than like was it four times the age of America, which is just 250.
>> That's crazy.
>> Yep. It's >> that's a I know that's a thing with some of the redwoods. That's why they put like barriers around some of them over here in North America, the older ones, cuz like it keeps tourists from potentially damaging the tree. If I remember correctly, that's what they were doing with the Joshua tree in California until someone I think they tried to pull it out or hit it or set it on some they did something to it and now the tree is not there anymore.
>> Yeah, there's another one. Uh there's the Hadrien's wall which separates like Scotland from England and like there was a tree that filled in the gap and it's been there for centuries. That's when when the Romans came and then some [ __ ] immigrant came over and cut it down. [laughter] >> Oh, I heard about this. This just happened, didn't it?
>> Yeah. Well, like a few a few months ago, but yeah, it was quite recent.
>> Yeah. Even trees aren't safe.
>> Nope. [laughter] Hide your kids. Hide your wives. Hide your trees.
>> They killing everybody up in here.
>> Wait. So again, because I'm very I'm I'm kind of familiar but not that familiar with Robin Hood. So is Robin Hood a real person or he's like a a legend sort of?
>> He's a fable.
>> Fable.
>> Fable. Yeah.
>> And this is just like a tree that showed up in some of his tales basically.
>> In Sherwood Forest is where Robin Hood like hides from from the sheriff and King John. King John's real. So like he's a mythical guy set in real times versus real people.
>> Gotcha. Okay.
>> Like King John is Richard the Richard the Lionheart's brother.
>> Okay. All right. All right.
>> Stabbed a lot of Muslims.
>> The base.
>> Yes. Uh [laughter] the whole thing is based. I mean it's the OG taxation is theft story. Like >> Mhm.
>> He's the one who signed Magna Carta.
That's the where the story comes from.
And it meant nothing because he just turned on the baronss straight afterwards. [laughter] >> Was does that mean that Robin Hood was the first libertarian? That's kind of >> who technically at least the first anarcho capitalist.
>> Yeah, but then he dies in the prairie broke and poor like all libertarians.
[laughter] >> How dare you, sir?
>> Oh no, you need libertarians are like, "Leave me alone. Me. I want power. I want [ __ ] I want legions and armies.
[ __ ] I'm dying with a [ __ ] seven [ __ ] sucking me off. That's how I'm going. Tyrion [laughter] Lannister, >> I'm sorry. Did you just say you're going to go out with a horse sucking you?
>> No [ __ ] >> Oh, >> like remember the quote Tyrion Lannister? Oh, what was that? A Wasn't that a guy who died because of who was it? The guy who died was a horse [ __ ] him.
>> Yeah, Mr. Hands. I was going to say, are we looking at >> Vex has talked many a time about Mr. Hans and even did a [ __ ] stream dedicated to him.
>> I knew she would know who it was.
[laughter] >> The first thing I thought when I saw that [ __ ] uh the Odyssey horse popcorn bucket was like >> I knew that's why I showed it, >> right? It's like Mr. Hands died far too soon. He missed out on the popcorn bucket he truly wanted.
>> Could you get a second? Just a guy. just the guy bent over and the horse above him. [laughter] >> Yeah, >> that's that would be quite >> So, we have this clip of uh Nolan explaining the process of uh filming an IMAX and getting the movie cut, which I thought was a bit interesting and well, it will lead into another discussion on on where his priorities are when it comes to the Odyssey.
>> What happens once the IMAX film leaves set?
>> Once the IMX film leaves the set, we take it straight to the lab, >> either shipping it or if we're shooting in LA, we just run it across >> town. uh comes here to the lab and it gets run through the processor through the developer fixer goes through the drying process and then at the end of production we go into the edit suite. We take those rolls of film that have been digitized for us. We edit digitally and then when the cut is finished we get a list of numbers out of the computer that correspond with numbers on the edge of the film that we shot. We send that to the lab. They cut the negative physically. They glue it together and then that is printed with the appropriate color corrections onto a positive print. And those positive prints will play in IMAX theaters directly. There'll be 41 of those around the world um where they're made from the original negative. It's a first generation print and the audience can sit there and and watch it know exactly how how we shot it. And then >> shot on IMAX, filmed for IMAX, shown on IMAX, >> shot on IMAX and showed directly on IMAX from the original media. It's a very human process. A lot of people involved, some of whom you met today. There's so many different people who contribute to this process. It's a very human analog process.
>> Has no one always talked like that?
Yeah, >> he kind of tal I don't know if you guys can can can relate to this, but you know those like um the circular standing fans like just room fans that you could buy. [laughter] You know when like when you're a kid you used to like talk into those and like you'd pretend to be like a singer like >> it's a synthesizer. It's like it's a poor person synthesizer or not synthesizer um autotune.
He's just Yeah, Christopher Nolan kind of talks like when you're pretending to be a news reporter talking into that fan when you're eight years old. I I just I the last time I'd seen him talk in an interview was like when The Dark Knight Rises was come out. So maybe that's why my >> I I like telling the fan things it would say no to and then if I disagree with it, I'll turn it off so it stops oscillating.
[laughter] >> I I stole that joke from Mitch Heber. I will not take credit for it. That's a stolen joke from a dead comedian from the 90s. Uh, I love Mitch Hedberg. Well, one of his jokes that I used to often retell is, uh, I used to do drugs. I still do, but I used to also I used to [laughter] do.
>> Um, so with Christopher Nolan, he he's fascinated with IMAX, you know, like even with the the the original Dark Knight. I think that was the first time that he he'd used IMAX. And it was kind of weird the way the movie would cut from um 16 mm to to IMAX for the action scenes. And um that was probably one of my only complaints with with that movie.
Uh but he seems like he's a director that's more obsessed with the production aspect of film making than he is with the story that he's telling, especially as of late. Would you guys agree with that?
>> Agreed.
>> Tennet had a story.
>> Yeah.
>> You know what's crazy? Go back to that first one. Sorry, just real quick. Um, how where is this color in the movie?
[laughter] >> Yeah, in the movie this is completely dark.
>> It's gray. [laughter] >> Yeah.
>> You wouldn't want colors in your movie.
So, >> it could be that it's shot at a different time. Like what we're seeing here is them entering during the day. I need to filter because it is when when he's outside on the Mediterranean, which is known for being very colorful and bright, it looks like Northern England, like a dirty [ __ ] hole. It looks like that. That's the color we see everywhere. They always put this blue filter on.
>> This looks so much better than what we've actually seen.
>> The trailer looks way too dark. Yeah, >> definitely using a filter on the camera.
uh the majority of the film, like the entirety of the trailer that we've that I've seen, which has uh scenes depicted at night and during the day, it's hard to see anything. It's like that >> that that battle scene from Game of Thrones season seven or eight. Um >> Well, Game of Thrones is Yeah. But like a lot of times is they film during the day a night scene and then put like a blue filter on it.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> And it looks terrible.
>> I don't know. Oh, sorry. Finish with that.
>> This is This is the one here. like this picture looks like it was filmed during the day. There's no natural lighting.
It's just a blue filter.
>> Um, just in terms of like your comment on him like uh focusing more on how the movie is produced, like it's I don't even know if there's really a focus there anymore because it seems like he got a lot of praise for what he did with The Dark Knight and The Dark Knight Rises and he's just basically been replicating that exact same formula for the last 10, 15 years now. So it it's like I feel like it's more like oh I'm you know I've huffed my own farts long enough that this is what peak film making is rather than I actually care about evolving as an artist and delivering something of legitimate substance and value to the medium.
>> I don't know what you're talking about.
He blew up a real nuclear bomb for Oenheimer. [laughter] >> Say though I actually Oenheimer is literally one of the best movies the last five years and I did really love it. I won't lie.
>> It's a good movie. I'll agree with you, but it just has all of his normal tropes and >> Oh, it absolutely does. It's tropes that I do like if the script is a good script. The thing is I don't think the Odyssey is going to be good and Nolanism tropes are not going to save a bad script.
>> As much as like that Tenant had issues, I did admire uh what he was trying to achieve, right? Like he that movie isn't safe by by any regard for a Hollywood film. He was essentially trying to tell a story in the form of a of a palentrobe. And the movie is bonkers, right? Like it has a lot of issues with sound design, not being able to hear a lot of the dialogue um and the way the movie sort of resolves itself. The resolution a little bit crazy, >> but the guy wants to blow up reality because he he can't hit his wife anymore.
>> I'm sorry.
She says if he she says he's such a wife beater. If he can't have it, no one can.
So if he can't live forever, he's going to blow up reality.
>> Hold on. This is Tenant, right?
>> Yeah.
>> He's talking about the Kenneth Kenneth Brener's character like >> Okay. I thought you meant the black guy that's the lead in like he wanted to he has that line to Elizabeth Dickiy's character. He's just like uh if I can't have you, no one can. And he basically sums that up as being his philosophy to to life because his his objective is to try and >> exploit entropy to live forever. And once he realizes he can't do that, he's just like, "Fuck it. I'll destroy the world." Uh but but even this >> the bling [laughter] like his kids mean nothing. It's so [ __ ] stupid.
But even this where he's um showing the new popcorn bucket for the Odyssey to the cinematographer Ho Van Hoyar.
>> It's like [laughter] how cool is that? [clears throat] >> That's amazing. And have a look.
>> Which is where his priority is.
>> Wow. [laughter] >> Yeah. It's not the story. It's the actual film craft.
>> Yeah.
Yeah, >> speaking of IMAX non-stop and it's just I don't think it'll even look that good to be honest. I think it's going to be like IMAX will has a purpose and I think he'll just use it on everything appropriate.
>> We also have this popcorn bucket for the Fast and Furious which is celebrating its 25th anniversary. What do you guys think of this? At least it holds more popcorn bucket.
>> That's kind of cool actually.
>> More popcorn than the Supergirl popcorn bucket.
>> I don't know. We have to see if like cuz that could just be padding underneath to make it look bigger.
>> Well, I mean I I I don't know the way like the top is up and everything. I would Paul Walker approve.
>> It looks like his wrecked car.
[laughter] >> Jesus Leon.
>> That was a Porsche. Actually, >> that was a Porsche. Actually, in German, you say uh like dunka.
There was a there was a tweet after he died um with a photo of his wrecked car and somebody quoted uh too fast too furious and then somebody underneath retweeted it saying too soon which I thought was pretty funny. [laughter] >> If you look at my uh my Discord bio, my bio says I added Paul Walker on Xbox but he spends all of his time on the dashboard. [laughter] I'm not even jealous on Discord by [laughter] cold blood.
>> That was awesome. That'll be the funniest joke I hear all day. Holy [ __ ] [laughter] >> So, we do have a super chat that came in from our boy Nick the Plot Strikes back for $4.99. Vex, could you read this?
[clears throat] >> I heard there was Oh, hold on. I got to say to Nick's voice. I heard there was a [ __ ] take from Leon. There's only one good Toy Story movie. Loar Lord of the Rings has three good movies. Birth motions are better than Toy Story.
>> That's a terrible impression.
>> I tried to be nailed.
>> Pretty good. The first half of that you got his paid thing [laughter] correct.
You were doing real good. I think it slipped in the second half, but that was a real good I heard there was a [ __ ] take from my boy Leon. Like you you nailed that. [laughter] >> But we also have the new pop bucket for Spider-Man brand new day. Pretty sure I just had this as a piggy bank when I was like six. This is stupid.
>> I disagree. I think this is great cuz it's actually a toy that you could use if you have like Spider-Man figures and stuff. Like there's actual value to this.
>> No, no, you are correct. I just hate people to buy popcorn buckets. I've never once bought one because they're like like this is actually one of the cooler ones, but I hate it. And I don't want to give it credit because the new Spider-Man movie is going to be ass.
>> Now, I wanted to play the trailer, but I've heard that people have had their streams get blocked. Is that true?
>> Uh, yes. Badger has had that's why Julie didn't do it yesterday. Badger has had multiple stream like the streams get blocked when they're done and it could also even take you down. Uh, after the trailer's finished or what not, they'll bring you back like 90 seconds later, but I don't know that you should you should risk it.
>> Ah, okay. All right. Well, >> I don't want to watch this anyways cuz I heard that it reveals too much. So, >> Okay. All right. Well, we'll leave the uh trailer out of it, but uh Tom Holland said that he and John Bernthal were allowed to improvise their scenes together while filming Spider-Man Brand New Day. Now, if you've got two phenomenal actors improvising, I don't have an issue, but I definitely have issues with Tom Holland and uh Burnthal uh improvising scenes in >> I don't like the description there. It's this really funny little brother, big brother type of relationship. What are we doing here? Yeah, my big brother is a violent murderer, [laughter] >> right? Like, so the Punisher's introduction in all of Marvel comics was in a Spider-Man. I believe it's Spider-Man Amazing Spider-Man 67. And he wants to kill him. They hate each other.
Punisher and now their relationship gets mended way later down the line. Puncher is actually the one that saved Spider-Man from death in Civil War. But like they shouldn't have a brotherly relationship if if this is how they're introducing Punisher and Spider-Man.
Punisher wants to kill the [ __ ] >> And I said this on Die stream. Uh, when I first heard that Punisher was going to be in the new Spider-Man movie, I was like, "Oh, will they be pulling uh Spider-Man into the Punishers world?"
And no, it seems as though they're pulling Punisher into Spider-Man's world.
>> Amazing Spider-Man. My bad.
>> But why would Spider-Man actually be friends with this psychotic mass murderer? Like, the whole point is like Daredevil already has a relationship with Peter Parker. He was his lawyer.
That that relationship makes way more sense. they have similar sensibilities.
And so it just it feels like they're just trying to replicate Daredevil season 2 where they had that conversation of, you know, Frank's on the rooftop saying we need to kill people and Daredevil says no, we shouldn't. It's wrong. I think they're going to do that with Spider-Man, but filter it down till it's and dilute it till it's nothing.
>> I have no hope for this movie because they've already reset Peter Parker four times in the MCU.
I love arguing with Reaper, but because it's fun. But no, he was spot on.
There's nothing to argue with. [ __ ] you, Reaper. [laughter] >> He's getting back with NJ again, which defeats the last film. The last film is him telling his friends to [ __ ] off.
Well, not really, but you know, basically movies have sucked. Why does anyone have hope? I'm glad you don't have hope for this. I'm glad you're smart, but all the home movies have sucked. Why would this one be any different?
>> It looks like it's going to be the worst. It's They're throwing everything into it. They got the Hulk. You've got >> work to be worse than what's >> got the hands.
>> Why isn't Daredevil in this?
>> It doesn't porking She-Hulk, I guess. I don't [ __ ] know. Like >> he must have been too busy recording his lines for Expedition 33.
>> Oh, yes.
>> No, apparently he did that he did that in like a day, didn't he?
>> Yeah, he did.
>> I was joking, but >> yeah. [laughter] No, no, in case the chat didn't know. Yeah, he he did all of his lines for three eight hours.
>> And we also got a shot in the trailer of the Hulk. We also see him doing the thunder clap, I think it is, towards Spider-Man >> with his cheeks.
>> No, with his hands. God damn it, folks.
>> The Hulk's famous [laughter] move where he claps his hands and makes giant shock waves. You remember that was the that was the fan theory for how Thanos was going to die 10 years ago. Does anyone remember [laughter] that?
>> Yes.
Yep.
>> I think this movie will perform well cuz uh it's already had the fourth biggest pre-sales of any >> I don't know. Did you see there was an outlet saying that Supergirl is going to outperform it?
>> Yeah, but that was just speculation.
This sort of has >> an analysis and the numbers to support it. Yeah.
>> Like the la it was the last Marvel film to hit a billion was was it No Way Home.
>> Pardon?
>> It was right. Wasn't the last Spider-Man movie? It hit a billion.
>> Yep. Over a billion. Yep.
>> But to be fair, that that SP I don't think this one will do as well as that one. I'm not saying this movie will underperform or anything, but it's not going to do as well as the last one.
That last one, everybody knew it was the biggest open secret in Hollywood that Andrew Garfield and Tom McGuire are coming back. That is why people went to see it. They wanted the liveaction Spider-Verse nostalgia trip that you don't have anything like this. Like if if you're stumbling to the barn with, "Well, now we've got Spider-Man and Punisher instead of Spider-Man, Spider-Man, Spider-Man." Like, um I again, this will maybe make 800,000.
>> Oh, that I that's a severe underestimate. I think this will make a billion. It won't make like the two billion that No Way Home did cuz for the reason that you listed, but this will hit a billion cuz everyone likes Spider-Man regardless of all the other MCU stuff. This is the only MCU character that actually appeals to youth as well.
>> This is an interesting point by 800,000.
I meant to say 800 million. Tony li I knew what you meant. I knew what you meant.
>> He says, "Have you noticed that not a single MCU Spider-Man has him working on his own? He every single one relies on cameos to help prop it up. I mean, his introduction was in Civil War uh uh like No Way Home. That's the movie where he's the most like Spider-Man. It's a kind of criminal.
>> They they tried to do that. Oh, whoa.
Where'd Reaper go?
>> Um, they they tried to do that with Homecoming. They did a pretty good job of it, but then Tony had to kind of come in at the end of the movie to to save the day and then they just kind of they tried to do it again with Far From Home, but then he ends up leaning on Mysterio for all and then Yeah.
>> And Nick Fury as well.
>> And Nick Fury. Yep. Yep. That's true.
>> And they brought in Jonah Jameson into that one, didn't they?
>> Mhm. They did the first time and No Way Home had the Tobey Maguire, uh, Andrew.
>> Well, he leaned on Strange first and then he went and leaned on all the variations.
>> And then it brought back all of the villains from the previous Spider-Man movies. So, yeah. And it's it's kind of a bit late for them to say, uh, in this movie, he's going to be the friendly neighborhood Spider-Man that we all knew him as. And it's like, well, you've had seven movies to do that. What the [ __ ] >> Yeah, I'm I'm in agree with you. Uh pivoting to something you mentioned about Hulk using his thunder cheeks. Uh we have uh we have >> gingerbread man from Shrek 5.
>> I'm baked UP LIKE A FREAKING BAKERY.
>> OKAY. Out of context, that's pretty funny. Okay. Out of context, that's pretty funny. I did make an argument in your movie nights chat earlier this week about the blackification of media. and how this kind of worries me for Shrek 5 as a result.
>> Yeah, but you were using that uh for as an argument against uh against this actually uh Mike Meyers and >> Yes, I was >> Austin Powers 4 and I pointed out that like I don't think it's going to include any of that at all.
>> You mean like black jokes or black humor?
>> All all of the above because all of none of the films have have integrated that.
Okay, so hear me out. Okay, and >> British character.
>> I'm gonna I'm gonna Well, there's a lot of black people in Britain these days, and it does kind of rule their culture, too. Now, but um I'm going to preface this by saying yes, I am racist. Okay.
Now my my whole thing is that a [laughter] lot of western culture es like I would say more rampidly in the last 10 to 15 years has become very dependent on black culture not just for its entertainment but for kind of just like its socio political basis for everything. That's why you suddenly see like a bunch of white chicks are just leaving their husbands to [ __ ] black guys or twerk on the internet or join only fans or you know shake their goodies on camera for attention. That's not really a thing in like there's just [ __ ] white girls usually but they don't do that kind of thing. Right. So my issue >> hold on just let me let me finish my thesis here. Okay. So my issue is that in order for them to cuz this is just a problem in comedy more than ever is now all of the jokes lean into black culture more than anything. And the the argument I'd made with scary movie is that with at least those first few scary movies like they would weave them in here and there as a means to critique as a [snorts] means to critique the worst of black American culture which was usually like the gun violence or drug abuse. Right.
>> Yeah. But that's also made by the Wayne's brothers who are >> not all of them. You know, Craig Mazin wrote the third one which everyone forgets, right? Yeah.
>> But it's it's now it's become this thing where it's like, oh, black humor and black culture needs to be woven into every single joke in a comedy movie. And this is where I can see Austin Powers having an issue is that the type of people that wrote these movies in the 90s and early 2000s and the character that this is parodying don't understand that type of culture anymore. nor have they grown up in that type of culture anymore. So, it's just for me fundamentally Austin Powers has no hope because they're going to blackify the [ __ ] out of this without intending to.
>> But that's like a massive assumption to make based on no evidence. Like the script hasn't even been >> This is me just pulling from what the pattern has been over.
>> There might not be evidence because I I get what Vex is saying, especially on the the US side of things. I mean uh the evidence is not in the the script itself or anything like that but we do have this when it comes to movies in general music all I mean almost all the top charting music for the last 30 years has been heavily black all the biggest comedians are black comedians I mean I so there I think that's actually a pretty there's I think there's a pretty strong argument for that but then again I would love to see this movie fail I [ __ ] hate these movies and I can't >> I don't know why I don't know how you can hate Austin Powers I I don't find Mike Myers funny. I I loathe Mike Myers as a comedian. Always have. He is carried by Dana Carvey when there when Dana Carve is not around. Mike Myers is a talentless hack.
>> Hold on. Okay.
>> I don't think Mike Myers is is hilarious in anything other than Austin Powers.
>> Also, Caleb think he's hilarious in Austin Powers.
>> Uh Caleb, my thoughts on the Toy Story trilogy. I haven't seen the third one. I did like the first two, but they're not better than the Lord of the Rings trilogy, which is something that [laughter] Leon was claiming at the start of the stream.
Uh so probably final topic for today.
Ian McDermid says that George Lucas was developing a live action Palpatine TV series would have followed the Emperor's progress like Hitler's which I thought [laughter] >> what [laughter] like you know >> are you saying his rise to power was like Hitler's? Is that what that >> Yeah, that's what he's implying. Uh, but the idea was scrapped after he sold the company to to Disney. Um, >> I just I just love anyone else just get deja vu from I can swear we've talked about this before.
>> No, we know multiverse theory painter.
>> Is he just can't get to paint art school? [laughter] Is that how it starts?
>> He's on Corissant trying to sell art and get [laughter] out.
>> That's true.
There's loads of communists there. And he goes, "What books are they actually burning?" [laughter] >> I um as a non-S Star Wars fan, like I hate Star Wars. I'm glad they didn't do this cuz I'm kind of sick of just seeing media decide to tell backtories and origin stories for villains. So, I'm glad [clears throat] this idea got scrapped for your sake, for whatever that's worth.
>> Well, and I'm not tired of it. I'm tired of being done in movies or television fashion. If if this like these stories exist in the books um like these should supplemental stories like this should be relegated to books or comics or video games. That way even if they are you know technically you know canon um they're you don't need them as part of the cohes cohesion of like your movie series.
>> Problem is she's uh recconed everything so nothing's cannon. She basically went all Star Wars history's gone. So like this book is just what's it called?
Legacy or something Star Wars. something like that.
>> The Palpatine, the Rise of Palpatine book, but >> yeah, because Palpatine book he you he have him deal with Darth Plagus, his master, whereas in the in the acolyte >> in the acolyte uh Plaggus is a creep hiding in a cave spying on people.
[laughter] >> Speaking of uh comics, I guess this will be the final topic. Uh, first look at Aliens versus X-Men, a four issue crossover series from Kieran Gillan and artist Geraldo Boures. The series also includes a bonus story by Chris Claremont. Have any of you guys read the uh Marvel versus uh Alien?
>> No, I haven't Marvel vs. Predator. I've read Spider-Man versus Predator, which is really good.
>> I've read uh Wolverine versus Predator, and I have the Alien versus Marvel comic as well, which is a lot of fun. I'm I'm going to grab this. What about you, Leon?
>> Um, so I'm not a huge X-Men fan. I I I love Wolverine and his solo stories. I'm not big on the X-Men. So, I mean, if if I pick it up, it'll be for the novelty of me being an Alien fan, not an X-Men fan.
>> Uh, so you're going to pick it up?
>> No. As said if I pick it up because I'm I'm not sold on it because it's X-Men.
If it were a different set of Marvel characters that it'd be a maybe. But like the only thing tying me to this is like, okay, I like Alien. I like xenomorphs. The the fact that it's Marvel X-Men is doing nothing for me.
>> What about Marvel versus uh Alien? Have you taken a look at that?
>> No, I didn't know there were other Alien crossovers. I knew about the Predator ones. I didn't know there were other Alien crossovers. There's a ton of them.
>> Probably some of the best stuff coming out of Marvel right now, if I'm being real.
>> Did we uh Justice League though? That was pretty cool. I I agree with uh Goodwin there that the cover art doesn't look very good, especially with what some of these other like Alien and Predator ones have been with the crossovers. Little disappointing on the cover art.
>> Do you think comics are getting better now or is it just the standard has dropped so low that what everyone's saying is good is just what used to be acceptable or mid like years ago?
>> It's it's a little bit of both. So Marvel and at least Marvel and DC, the big two are obviously they're they're ideologically captured. I know, you know, there there's no ifs, and buts about it. Their mainline universe continuities are dog [ __ ] Their their spin-off stuff that's not canon, that's just its own universes or whatever actually are pretty good. I mean, it I don't think it's as good as a lot of the stuff I was reading in the 90s early 2000s, but there's But I am enjoying them. Like I said, I enjoyed uh Sonic and Justice League crossover. I enjoyed the Justice League Godzilla crossover.
Uh the Ultimate Spider-Man where he was in his 30s and actually married to Mary Jane. I enjoyed those. So like the stuff that they're not treating as mainline continuity where you get to see people actually flex some creativity. I'm really I I do enjoy more than I uh dislike.
>> But do you get those highs? You used to get like the real highs like the actual like >> No, I I don't get those highs, but it's because this might just be a me thing because I'm a continuity [ __ ] Um, I because they are set in spin-off universes, they I they inherently mean less to me. And that's if these were mainline stories or if mainline stories were being written like these, I feel like I could get those highs. But I don't care as much about spin-off universes >> cuz everyone's Yeah, cuz like there's comments absolute Batman like you see it everywhere and then a lot of people >> it's o it's okay or mid. It's just like >> I have absolute Batman like the first three issues. It's okay. Like compared to a lot of the stuff that Marvel has released in the past decade, it is better. But I think the only reason I even like it even a slight bit though I have issues with the way that the main characters are drawn. I don't like the design of uh of Batman in Absolute Batman. Uh but the standards have dropped significantly. So by comparison, it just it just looks the story just looks so much better.
>> Yeah. when you have snowflake and safe space and all these [ __ ] like that anything anything just having people praise it when a character looks like a character from the comic it was no that's the baseline that's the that's the minimum of what he's supposed to do but because they changed them and ruined them and altered them everyone just goes oh good Batman's at least white or Batman at least looks like a dude or like people are praising >> that man's not [ __ ] another man [laughter] >> he's actually straight Oscar winning. Everyone gives a round of applause. So that's the thing. It's just it is standards I do think I've dropped and mid is now good.
>> Yeah. I mean Whan is right. We're never going to get like a Dark Knight Returns level of uh dark, gritty, jaded Batman.
I mean, he goes up against Superman, who's basically like the US government's [ __ ] in in that.
Okay, finally.
I stumbled upon this. This is kind of ridiculous, but they're doing a Godzilla and Wizard of Oz crossover.
>> Let's go. I actually this is of my dick is hard.
>> So, is this has better art than those [ __ ] X-Men Alien ones?
>> I'm curious. I actually would buy these.
Yeah, I like the idea. It's so ludicrous. It could work. They're not memeing. This looks awesome.
>> How are they going to deal with the Wizard of Oz, though?
>> Godzilla's going to eat.
>> What do you mean how are they going to deal with the wizard?
>> No, sorry. How are they going to deal with with Godzilla is what I meant.
Yeah. [laughter] >> To be fair, there's incredibly powerful magic and stuff in Oz. Like, like, have you ever read any of the Oz books?
>> No, I'm gay.
>> You're not helping your straightness [laughter] right now.
>> No, no, no. The Oz books The Oz books are awesome. Like, to be fair, I love the original movie. Trust me, the books way different. Um, the they're it's almost like it's on the cusp of being like legit dark fantasy. Uh, the Oz books are super [ __ ] cool. You're going to have magic. You're going to have [ __ ] armies battling Godzilla.
You're going to have like it's this could get crazy.
>> Aren't they going to cop out and just make it make a clip her heels three times and wish for Godzilla to [ __ ] off?
>> That's a I'm confusing the Wicked books.
The Wicked books are the gay ones. I >> Wicked was the fanfic that came in the 90s. No, the Oz books are from like the [ __ ] 1920s or something.
>> Okay. Yeah. Yeah.
>> On that note, let's >> final thoughts. Reaper, go ahead.
>> I was going to say it be funny if like he stepped on Dorothy and then did the cowardly lions going ah like screaming like holding her limp lifeless body in his hands.
>> Oh, you know what? Instead of the house landing on the witch, it's Godzilla step. The feet the feet sticking out.
Yeah, >> on that note, let's let's wrap up. Let everybody know what we're up to. Vex, thank you for joining us.
>> Thank you for having me. This was interesting. [laughter] Uh, I had a video drop last weekend, Monday, I can't remember. I had a video drop recently though, so you can go watch that. And then I'll be live on Sunday talking about eczema, the Korean.
>> Beautiful. Whan, uh, if you're in chat or Goodwin, if you could put a link to Vex's video, that would be amazing.
>> Thank you. Thank you.
>> Uh, Reaper, what about you? What are you up to?
>> Uh, I'm going to do Toy Story 5 and what a [ __ ] disaster that film is.
>> Oh, you have seen Toy Story 5?
>> Yeah, it sucks.
>> Oh, I skipped the entire discussion because I thought the doulies were the only ones that had seen it. [ __ ] >> Well, we'll save next week.
>> Well, it sucks. Uh, basically they wreck on uh the relationship that Jesse had with Emily. You know, Emily throws her under the bed and forgets about her for years and then throws it in a donation box. No, secretly, she's always been obsessed with Jesse and like she names her [ __ ] daughter after a toy. It's like, no, they they re they basically redo the the plot line.
>> The emotional like cry your eyes out part of Toy Story 2 when somebody loved me. Yeah. Like, and it turns out, no, actually Jesse had such an impact on Emily who forgot about her for years and threw her away instantly. Um, that she named the daughter after the toy because she just she basically it retreads a lot of uh Toy Story 1 and two. Like it t like they literally have that scene with the truck and they have to fly out if it's not flying, we're falling with style. They actually copied like basically ripped that off directly. It's awful. and and she's a girl boss spa.
But anyway, that's my review. Not to say too much more on it, but [laughter] >> dude, [ __ ] this movie. I hate it so goddamn much.
>> I hate it. It [ __ ] sucks.
>> Uh Whan, I think you accidentally posted a link to Vex's Eximus stream, which is in a couple of days. But her video on Obsession, I think that was what you were referring to, Vex. Yeah, >> that was put that in the link.
>> Yeah, thank you.
>> Uh Leon, what about you? What are you up to?
>> Videos and streams every day. hard at work on a video that uh Vex read the script for and seems to enjoy. So maybe I'm on to something. Maybe there's not always bad takes.
>> Whoa, whoa, whoa. Don't assume I enjoyed it. From a professional standpoint, it was palatable.
>> Okay, [laughter] I'll take palatable.
Um, what was I saying? Oh, uh, yeah, video streams every day. We got Badger Show in 40 minutes and then Neon Leon tonight where we're going to be talking about queers in the anime community upset at heterosopime and the potential downfall or savior of Xbox. We really could go either way at this point. It's going to be a great time. So, show up and show out, crew.
>> Looking forward to it. Uh, as for me, uh, Vex just edited a fantastic video for me on Desert Warrior and how it's the biggest flop in biggest box office flop in history. It's kind of insane how they fumbled the bag with that movie.
It's just a production nightmare of epic proportions. So, please check that out.
Dropped that a couple of hours ago. Uh we're covering Batman Begins for for movie nights this Sunday at 9:00 p.m.
Eastern Standard Time. Uh and we'll also be rating right into Batcher um when the stream ends. So join us for that. With that said, a big thank you to everybody that tuned in, all the magnificent panel members and everybody that sent a super chat or became a member. Really appreciate you guys. And uh yeah, we'll see you next time. Take care.
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