How are Humans Unique? | Rebecca Newberger Goldstein

Added: 2026-05-09

[00:00:00]Rebecca, why do you put mattering at the forefront of what it means to be human?

[00:00:07]>> Yes, because um I think that what it is to be human, we have an existential dimension. Uh that is that we are interested in our existence. uh we can look at it from outside and we can ask uh justificatory questions about it. Um and that's basically what I mean by this longing to matter that we are uh yeah that we uh ask the kind of questions uh that get us into the business of just justifying our lives and and that is our exist existential dimension. We want to know what this existence is about if anything what it ought to be about if anything.

[00:01:01]Uh and it is human to ask that question.

[00:01:04]We can actually see at a certain point in history when it emerged. Um the existential German philosopher Carl Yaspers uh was the first to notice that uh all of the major religions that are still extent as well as western philosophy um uh emerged during the same period of history >> um roughly 800 to 200 B.CE.

[00:01:33]>> Axial age or something >> the axial age. And it was as if our attention turned on an axis that before we were simply concentrating on what all animals concentrate on, you know, survival, you know, getting enough food, uh escaping our predators and other dangers uh in our environment and uh you know, shelter, safety, um uh relation with one's kin. this sort of you know things that that are replicated in other species. Um and um and and it certain point and it really social scientists have have looked at what was special about this uh period and what it was in many different areas of the planet. um certain segments of society had reached a point where life was stable enough, safe enough that it wasn't a constant animal um uh striving to survive and they and what emerged then the questions what are we surviving for and then you have the emergence of these all of these religions confusionism Dowoism Buddhism upanadic Hinduism, the first Abrahamic religion and ginism. Um am I leaving anything out? Did I I mentioned Buddhism, right?

[00:03:02]Um and Zoroastrianism, you know, all still extent and um in in the ancient Greek world, secular philosophy. So this is and this was an so you can actually see it emerging um when our animal instincts or our animal needs are taken care of this extra extra >> and ancient Chinese religions although there was less of a metaphysical aspect there was a very much a a political aspect which dealt with the same kind of mattering issues of family relationships relationships of state confucianism dowoism had a more nature rel related activity but you you see it all over the world for sure.

[00:03:42]>> That's right. You see it all over the world wherever you know pe people were stable enough uh sync enough and so that's that's really interesting.

[00:03:53]>> Okay. So so in in in your book important book the mattering instinct mattering is said to be as you've said deserving of attention. So it is your claim that this is a uniquely human capacity uh that nonhuman animals uh the great apes uh uh do not have a mattering instinct as well or do they have a a mattering instinct um citations dolphins whales higher primates as well be different in expression but not different in kind. It could be. It could be that they do, but I mean we don't see any signs of it. You know, maybe you needed these hands, these opposable thumbs, you know, tool making to to to do this. But, um, I I think that, uh, it's a it's it's quite a complicated thing that gets us to this point of needing to justify ourselves.

[00:04:50]Um it's it it's this movement of the mind of of deep self-reflection of sort of stepping outside yourself seeing yourself as if from a distance um and and and interrogating you know this sense of self mattering that that all creatures have um and asking for some sort of justification for it and I mean it definitely requires I think concepts language this sort of you know that other uniquely uh human uh things. My my my husband, by the way, you I'm married to Steven Pinker and he and I um for a long time argued over what is the essential aspect of being human and he said it was language and I say it's this need to justify ourselves. I think >> you'd have to check with him, but I think I've convinced him.

[00:05:47]I think but I do think that it probably requires language you know that that that it it requires a >> a very sounds recursive language requires me mattering and mattering requires language.

[00:06:00]>> Yeah. I mean they co-evolved or >> could be this this this is beyond you know but you know one of the things that was very very important um to me in thinking out this framework um is to see how many empirical hypotheses I can get out of it which I would love others to test. Can you imagine a test to see if there is a mattering mattering instinct among you know chimpanzees or bonabos or dolphins? I mean can you imagine what some kind of test could be because I'm I don't think I can.

[00:06:35]>> Well interesting. So one of the the the things ways in which um the mannering instinct can manifest is uh when it's not being um satisfied and a person goes into a funk um really does not want to continue there's no energy left to continue on with one's life and you know if one saw that kind of thing happening there this does happen with however right with certain gregarious creatures if you pay them no attention. I remember I mean the the evidence that I've read here is is is is >> it's hard to distinguish whether that is a mattering internal mattering instinct or other >> other aspects of of sociality which exactly it's not >> your mattering instinct is very is >> is different than than just the social groupings very very different.

[00:07:34]>> Exactly. Exactly. So profound. I I love that cartoon in your book where you had like uh the evolution of creatures and they all said something like I forgot the exact words but it was like uh uh eat, reproduce, survive. And as the creatures got bigger and bigger and revolved, they said exactly the same thing. Eat, reproduce, survive. Eat, reproduce, survive. And then finally when they got to a human, he says, "Why am I here?"

[00:07:57]>> Yeah. What's it all about? Yeah.

[00:07:59]>> Yeah.

[00:08:01]I mean this radical step function difference even though the biology was uh going uh uh uh linearly in some sense and growing linearly the psychology didn't change until you got to human when you had this mattering instinct or meaning suddenly emerge.

[00:08:19]>> Yeah. Yeah. you know, and so what I think, you know, is that the Darwinian story can take us so far um and explain to us even how we, you know, we evolved these great big complicated brains. It's the most complicated object yet discovered in the universe, these brains, you know, with with all of these different modules. Um but and particularly this this uh you know the theory of of mind that allows us to uh think about other minds ask all sorts of questions. What are the desires? What are the beliefs? We rec recognize from a very early age that they can be different from our own. We use powers of inference to get to them. All of which can be explained by are being these gregarious and very helpless creatures that we are. That's the other thing.

[00:09:08]these big brains have to come out prematurely from the birth canal or they never get out. You know, it's it's hard enough to give birth.

[00:09:16]>> Um but you know, so it's you got 30% of your brain of your brain humans have when they're born and they're you know, they're so helpless. um it takes them so long and you know it's your early 20s that the last piece the really mature piece you know frontal loes um makes us accountable for ourselves comes into into being. So um you know so we we've developed these very very complicated brains and we and we complicated brains that can ask questions of others of our species on whom we're so dependent. But then we can turn that on ourselves and regard ourselves as an object of interrogation um and and be amazed at how much we seem to feel that we matter and ask for some sort of justification. It takes all of this complexity um I think um and and and a very developed capacity for self-reflection uh to to ask this what's it all about and you know what I've been talking to people about how they go about answering this question for themselves what's it all about for the past over 40 years and I get an answer from everybody you know this is a human they understand what I'm talking about this is so you don't have to be a philosopher uh to be asking what's it all about you have to be a human I think >> so you have mattering and connectedness what you call the two corners of uh of of humanness >> so clearly connectiveness is part of the animal kingdom I mean yeah >> all the virtually all the way up down and up that there's connectiveness is is critical on so many levels Um but if you look at animals and you see the connectiveness which is part of one of your two corners of humanness are you saying that animals do not have that other corner there no mannerness?

[00:11:19]>> Yeah.

[00:11:20]>> Yeah. So I mean I I I would say that all species um have like you know that this deep connectedness to certain members of their species. you know, some of that's pretty much the definition of a gregarious um species that there are um certain, you know, that in order to survive uh there have to be um strong connections uh with other specific members of your species. I mean, these turtles who lay their eggs in the in the water, you know, I watch this all the time when I'm in uh Cape Cod, you know, I see the turtle eggs, you know, floating around.

[00:12:03]These are not gregarious creatures. It's it's fight for yourself, you know, and then and and um but but gregarious creatures, yeah, they have to have this connectedness uh sense of connectedness to to certain uh members of their uh own species. And you know I saw this in in Africa among the chimpanzees. I mean the connections uh between the uh uh chimpanzees is is is is very very strong.

[00:12:28]>> No for sure. For sure that's the case with connectiveness. But as you were observing um uh of chimpanzees did did you ever see anything that could give you a hint that mattering was was was an internal driver?

[00:12:43]>> What's it all about? Oh, you know I need God. you know, where's no there there's, you know, just the mere fact that we created at a certain point when our life passed beyond, you know, mere survival that all animals are fighting for. Um, and as soon as that was satisfied, suddenly you see these religions um, emerging as well as Greek tragedy and Greek philosophy also an expression of this existential dimension really seems to show that something has to be satisfied in human life. uh the preconditions but then there is this existential dimension and those religions that emerge as well as the secular approach of of of Greek philosophy you know answer to something that continues up in to our day you know these religions are still with us as is the secular approach uh that the Greeks uh was their way of of of trying to understand what life is all about. So yeah, you know, um there's something special here. It's not to take away how important animals are.

[00:13:49]I'm a great animal lover. I think if I had to live my life all over again, I would want to live in Africa observing observing the chimpanzees. But um uh you know, and they have a dignity of their own. But it's not like the dignity that I believe belongs to our species in trying to justify its own self-mattering. each one of us. Um, there's such a dignity in that. There's a certain nobility in that.