Christian Caller Accidentally Admits Slavery Is Fine | Forrest Valkai + Jovan Bradley

Added: 2026-05-06

[00:00:00]I want to bring up Mike. Mike from I think it's Wisconsin. Mike from Wisconsin.

[00:00:06]>> Stay on topic.

[00:00:08]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Mike from Wisconsin, you're on with Forest and Jovon. Mike, how old are you?

[00:00:15]>> 47.

[00:00:17]>> Great. Now, Mike, there's a live chat going right now with almost 2,000 people between both chats. Should they refer to you as he, she, they, or someone else?

[00:00:28]My pronouns are your excellency and master of the universe.

[00:00:33]>> Those are >> Well, that's not a pronoun in the English language. Do you have a Do you have ones that are >> your is a pronoun, but like that was the only one >> experience? That's my That's my experience.

[00:00:43]>> I don't care. I don't care. That's lived experience.

[00:00:46]>> They're asking you for English grammar.

[00:00:48]So, what are pronouns?

[00:00:51]>> Master of the universe and your excellency.

[00:00:53]>> So, you don't know what pronouns are.

[00:00:55]So, why are we going to talk? No, Mike.

[00:00:57]We can't cuz why are we going to sit here and talk about the Bible with someone who doesn't know like first grade grammar?

[00:01:04]>> I'm pretty sure I know first grade grammar.

[00:01:07]>> Well, then you know what a pronoun is.

[00:01:09]>> So, can you just give me >> There we go.

[00:01:11]>> Oh, he stupid.

[00:01:16]>> He him will be see that. See how easy that is when you don't try to make it a very lame joke. Anyway, Mike, you think that we can't prove God is evil? Uh, you you you really think that, huh?

[00:01:29]>> No, I think I think your evidence is weak and your arguments are kind of weak.

[00:01:33]>> Not not not your arguments are kind of weak.

[00:01:37]>> Yeah.

[00:01:38]>> Is allowing for slavery evil, Mike?

[00:01:44]>> Yeah, sure. I think that that's >> You think it is evil to allow someone to own another person's property?

[00:01:52]>> Yes.

[00:01:54]>> Okay. So there's I'm glad we agree God is evil. Thank you.

[00:01:58]>> That was super easy.

[00:01:59]>> W >> did it faster than the pronoun things.

[00:02:04]>> Nailed it.

[00:02:05]>> No, that was great.

[00:02:06]>> I mean, it depends on what you mean by that depends on what you mean by evil.

[00:02:10]>> How would you evil?

[00:02:12]>> Uh the same way that you did when you talked about slavery, whatever you meant by that.

[00:02:17]>> Yeah. You you agreed with us that slave >> you agreed with us that owning another person's property and allowing that is evil. you agreed with us. So you have an internal sense of evil of what that is and you and God has allowed for that and therefore since you said that is evil.

[00:02:33]>> Okay.

[00:02:34]>> Okay. Well, let let me speak now. Please explain why it's evil. As far as you're aware, >> we don't have to.

[00:02:40]>> I don't need to.

[00:02:41]>> We don't have to.

[00:02:42]>> You agreed. We already agreed. We're good >> because you agreed with us.

[00:02:46]>> Okay. Well, then I'd like to understand exactly. All right. Like >> whatever reason you think it's evil, we also think it's evil for that reason.

[00:02:56]>> All right. So like it's it's like you're failing to like even engage on any kind of uh discourse here.

[00:03:04]>> No, because I don't do I don't do >> Mike. I'm happy to explain what good and evil are and how I come to those conclusions and where my morality comes from. Happy to have those conversations.

[00:03:14]I have them all the time. But at the end of the day, we don't have to. You called you called in and said that we don't have any any reason to believe that God is evil. You agree with us that he is.

[00:03:23]Why are we having this conversation?

[00:03:24]>> You said God is evil. What is evil about God? I >> I don't do sophistry. Mike, >> I can I can start with what is evil about God. What is evil about God is part of it is that he condones and and commands slavery. That's an evil thing to do and he did it. So, he's evil.

[00:03:40]>> Well, he did that in the Old Testament.

[00:03:42]Okay.

[00:03:43]He still did it.

[00:03:47]>> Still did it. Still did it. He still did it. He still did it.

[00:03:51]>> He still did it, Mike. He still did it.

[00:03:55]And and and let's be for real. Let's be for real about something, Mike. Let's be for real about something. Let's be Mike.

[00:04:02]Let's be Mike. We're We're going to mute you real quick, Mike. Let's just be for real about something for a second. God is an eternal being that exists in all times at all times. So that means he's currently doing it right now.

[00:04:14]>> He is currently allowing for slavery.

[00:04:18]>> Slavery is all slavery is also happening right now. There's more people enslaved at this moment than there were in the whole transatlantic slave trade. And also God knows all things and is like the ultimate judge of morality and [ __ ] And he did it. So he wasn't stupid back then. He just did it at the end of the day. Uh evil slavery is evil. God did slavery. God is evil.

[00:04:38]>> God didn't.

[00:04:38]>> It's over. That's the whole thing.

[00:04:41]God allowed for slavery.

[00:04:43]>> God allowed for slavery. The question I asked you doesn't exist.

[00:04:48]>> The question I asked you, Mike, >> Mike, the question I asked you, Mike, >> I'm trying. The question to you, but you keep talking.

[00:04:57]>> We didn't We didn't ask you. We didn't ask you the question of what evil is.

[00:05:01]>> We didn't ask you, Mike. This is such lazy. This is so lazy.

[00:05:05]>> Mike, this is so lazy. We didn't ask you what evil was. Mike, this is lazy. This is lazy. This is lazy. You're being lazy.

[00:05:12]>> We didn't ask it.

[00:05:13]>> No, I am being >> I don't care. I don't care what I don't care what you believe what you believe evil is like. Right. You said allowing for slavery.

[00:05:20]>> Let's actually have a conversation without even determining what these things are. Okay.

[00:05:27]>> Yes, we can.

[00:05:28]>> No, you can't because then fine. God is a is a cheese sandwich. If if we don't want to talk about what cheese sandwiches are, then for >> Mike, all you are going to do is give us a circular all you're going to do is give us a circular definition of evil and go, "Well, evil is just anything absence of God."

[00:05:44]>> So, God can't be evil because anything evil is just absence of God.

[00:05:48]>> So then, so then Mike, so then Mike, Mike, so you've walked yourself into a logical contradiction.

[00:05:54]>> God does not turn does not send anyone to eternal suffering. There are places in the universe where God doesn't exist.

[00:06:02]Hold on. Willingly choose to go there.

[00:06:05]That's where they suffer.

[00:06:06]>> So Mike, that's how that's how evil that's how evil works.

[00:06:10]>> Mike, you've walked yourself into a internal contradiction. You've walked yourself into an internal contradiction.

[00:06:16]>> Yes, I Yes, you did. And I'll explain it to you. I'll Mike, you walked yourself into an internal contradiction. I'll explain how. You agreed with us that the allowance of e of slavery, allowing for slavery to happen is evil. You agreed with us. Now you're saying evil is an absence of God. But God allowed for slavery. So was God absent of himself?

[00:06:43]>> No. Who did? Who did God enslave? God enslaved no one.

[00:06:47]>> God. No. No. No. No. No. No. I didn't say No. No. I didn't say was the action of of enslaving someone evil. Mike, this is why you're See, you're not listening.

[00:06:56]You're just waiting to respond. I didn't say the action of owning a slave was evil. I said is allowing slavery evil. I was very specific in my wording because God under his rules that he gave to Moses on Mount Si to give to the Israelites allowed them to own slaves.

[00:07:14]He said it was morally okay. It is not a moral negative for you to own slaves.

[00:07:20]>> I will admit that I misspoke. I would say allowing slavery is not evil. I would say enslaving.

[00:07:28]>> Okay, there we go.

[00:07:30]>> Well, then you also contradict. Well, actually, sorry, just really quick, Mike, you know you're full. Yeah.

[00:07:35]>> No, Mike, you know you're full of [ __ ] on that because earlier on when we first said this thing, when we first said, "Is commanding slavery allowing slavery rules for slavery?" When I when we asked you originally, is that wrong? And we all agreed, yeah, but God said that. You came back with a rebuttal. Yeah, but that was in the Old Testament. So, you knew what we were talking about and you were willing to make excuses for it and now you're changing your your train of thought to try to make it more palatable for yourself.

[00:08:04]>> So, just so we're aware just so we're aware my my thought I'm trying to actually have a conversation, but you guys keep talking over me like >> the Let's get the Let's get the Wait, wait, hold on, Forest. Hold on for the Let's just get the bear basics. Let's just get the bear. Let's just get the bear mic. Mike, it's not Mike, it's not your show, Mike. It's not your show, Mike. It's not your show, Mike.

[00:08:25]>> Mike, imagine going into a courtroom and thinking you could talk over the judge.

[00:08:30]>> That's not what this is.

[00:08:31]>> If you want to have a conversation, you have to abide by the rules of our show.

[00:08:36]If you don't want to do that, go on the internet and start your own show. But clearly, not many people listen to you because you don't have your own show.

[00:08:43]So, you're going to follow the rules of our show. So, as I was saying, Mike, Mike, Mike, Mike, this isn't your time to speak. And you will get your chance to speak, Mike, but it's not right now, Mike. You will get your chance to speak.

[00:08:57]It's not right now. Mike, I'm muting you, Mike. You're muted right now.

[00:09:01]>> You will have a chance to speak. It is not right now.

[00:09:04]>> If you can be patient, you'll have a chance to speak and answer our questions. But you That's not right now.

[00:09:10]>> That's not getting upset that the conversation isn't going your way. and then you shout out some new thing that you want us to abide by which isn't what the conversation actually is and then getting mad that we talk over you because you're trying to change the topic and trying to change some other thing. We don't need to define all these terms in order to get to the same conclusion we already landed at. We all agree that slavery is wrong. I my question for you Mike is is there ever any situation ever under any circumstances ever in which slavery is acceptable and moral? Because God in the body of course there's a better there's a better there's a better there's a better start because we've already got him we've already got him on I've already got him on the ropes there's a much better >> Mike we're gonna we're gonna reset the conversation here okay >> right you will have a chance to speak after you go through a dialogue tree with me for just one second then you will have a full chance to respond without being interrupted my first question in this dialogue tree is if I imagine I'm a person who's crafting a society I'm creating a society from scratch and I'm giving rules into into this society and I as the creator of said society tell my people they can own slaves if they want to.

[00:10:20]>> Was I wrong for making this rule?

[00:10:25]>> No.

[00:10:27]>> No. Explain why I'm not wrong for making that rule.

[00:10:35]>> Because you're just not wrong.

[00:10:38]So, >> the United States should have never created a rule. The United States should have never passed the 13th Amendment >> abolishing slavery. It's not wrong. It would have It's actually It wasn't wrong when when we didn't have a rule on the books that slavery was okay.

[00:10:58]I feel like you're trying to catch me in another one of those. I'm >> literally just literally just asking you to be consistent with your own [ __ ] logic. If he's not wrong by starting a society with slavery, then the United States wasn't wrong when we had slavery.

[00:11:17]It's not hard, dude.

[00:11:20]>> Yeah. I don't think that the United States was wrong for for for what they did. No, I mean that's how it is. And that's how it is. I'm going to I am now I don't mute people. I am now muting Mike because I'm not going to have a debate with somebody that John Brown would have shot. Um that's that's honestly I appreciate Mike and Rachel for showing everybody how far these [ __ ] termites can dig. By the way, Mike, if you're paying attention and you're like, "Well, they wouldn't even let me talk." And all we got plenty of people in chat like, "Oh, you wouldn't even let them talk." This is why you're the [ __ ] This is why this is what Christianity does. This is what this does to people. You have somebody who's probably in most of his life a decent person sitting here saying, you know what, at the end of the day, it's it's all right to have slaves. Like slavery wasn't a they weren't wrong.

[00:12:10]They're not Am I is it wrong to have slaves? Really? Is it wrong to use slavery to build your country? Re It's not wrong. [ __ ] off. I'm not. It's Thank you very much for helping us lead more people away from your shitty religion.

[00:12:25]This is a a great it's a boom.

[00:12:27]>> I will keep having the conversation because now he's he's now he's stuck. I mean, you either concede that slavery isn't wrong and it's okay to make a society in which you allow for slavery or you can see that God did something wrong.

[00:12:40]>> Those are the only two options here that Mike can make. Mike, are you going to make one of those? Are you going to make one of those? is is slavery slavery is now okay in your book.

[00:12:51]>> You see, you said the allowing of slavery. You're playing these word games just as much as I was trying to.

[00:12:57]>> Mike, how can I own slaves in a society if slavery is not >> Thank you for admitting that you were playing word games, >> Mike. How can I own slaves in a society if slavery is not allowed?

[00:13:05]>> Important to identify exactly what we're talking about here and allowing someone to make mistakes. Allowing someone to choose the the between good and evil. I think it I think is is part of God's plan.

[00:13:20]>> Okay.

[00:13:21]>> So, it's just a big mistake, guys.

[00:13:25]>> We don't need it.

[00:13:27]>> Wait, Forest. Hold on. Hold on. Hold on.

[00:13:29]>> Mike, you're wrong.

[00:13:30]>> I heard it, too. Go ahead.

[00:13:31]>> Mike, you're wrong. You're wrong about something. You said allowing people to make mistakes. God doesn't think owning slaves is a mistake.

[00:13:38]>> So, you're not doing anything wrong when you do it because he allows for it.

[00:13:42]>> It's about that. I mean I think >> your male and female slaves may come from the nations around you. From them you may buy slaves. You may also buy muting you. Same God. It's the same God.

[00:13:55]My [ __ ] floundering piece of [ __ ] Your male and female slaves are to come from the nations around you.

[00:14:01]>> From then you may buy slaves. You may own them as you may pass them down as inherited property to your children and they may be property for life. Mike.

[00:14:11]>> Mhm. Yes.

[00:14:12]>> He and he says he says the same thing throughout the Bible over and over that I am unchanging. I am the alpha and the omega, the beginning and the end. The same as I was then I am now. I do not change. I do not change my mind. Even though he regularly changes his mind.

[00:14:28]Read the book of Job where he said the whole [ __ ] thing is I was there when the stars were singing in the sky. I hung the stars themselves. Who are you to question me? I can do whatever I want. My rules are the best and always shall be. He says it over and over in the Bible. This [ __ ] Oh, it's just it's the Old Testament. The Ten Commandments are the Old Testament, [ __ ] Do you want to throw them out, too? Like, >> I'm sorry, dude.

[00:14:51]>> Even if it was Old Testament, >> Jesus says, "Not one dot or tit."

[00:14:57]>> Jot.

[00:14:58]>> Is it jot or is it a dot?

[00:14:59]>> Not one jot nor tit shall be changed from the Old Testament till all is complete. It's literally >> everything Mike, you just can't stay consistent because you don't realize that having the Old Testament, the New Testament in the Bible are contradictory. The the Old Test directly contradicts the New >> and also because he's playing word games as he admitted. He's just trying to look for a logical out and meanwhile we're here being consistent saying, "Hey, slavery is wrong all the time and all the time slavery is wrong. That's literally the [ __ ] simplest thing.

[00:15:30]It's not that goddamn hard. Mike is a slavery apologist who thinks it's okay to owe slaves in certain situations. Um, and that's [ __ ] gross. I'm gonna go bust a w and I'll be right back. You have fun with Mike. Uh, I'm I've got you in my ear though.

[00:15:46]>> Word. Mike, final question. Mike, is it okay to own slaves?

[00:15:50]>> There we go. I'm unmuted, right?

[00:15:53]>> Yeah. Is it okay to own slaves?

[00:15:56]>> Is it okay to own? Yes, you were mute.

[00:15:57]You were you were muted just then. Yes.

[00:15:59]Now you're not muted. Is it okay to own slaves? Oh yeah, you guys muted me and then just like seriously like mischaracterized all of all of the things that I was trying to say the whole time that I >> I'm going to be >> I'm going to be so honest with you, Mike. Nothing's been mischaracterized. I asked you very specific questions for a reason in order to not mischaracterize.

[00:16:20]That's why I asked you, Mike. Mike, that's why I asked you at the start of this conversation. Is it ever okay to allow for slavery?

[00:16:31]>> That's there's no mischaracterization if you say yes.

[00:16:34]>> Yes, I will say it.

[00:16:36]>> So it so that means it is not wrong to own a slave because it is allowed.

[00:16:43]>> It is wrong to own a slave. All things can be trueaneously.

[00:16:46]>> Wait, says who? Who says it's wrong to own a slave?

[00:16:50]>> Who? No, it can't. If God says some >> Yes.

[00:16:55]Okay, listen.

[00:16:56]>> Who says it's wrong?

[00:16:57]>> If you need like I need to speak. If you want me to hear if you want to hear the explanation, >> I want I want an answer. I don't want I don't want I don't want to pivot to something else. I want you to actually answer the question.

[00:17:09]>> No, no, no, no, no, no. You need to listen. Okay, you need to listen. Okay, cuz like you're play this game, too.

[00:17:16]Does God think that murder is okay?

[00:17:17]Well, he killed a bunch of people.

[00:17:19]>> So, wait, hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on. God does not think it's okay when we murder because he made a direct commandment telling us to not murder. So whether he thinks it's okay for himself is a whole another conversation that we're not having. But the conversation the conversation >> Oh my god, that's such a lazy Mike.

[00:17:41]That's so lazy. Mike, that's so lazy, dude. We're having a conversation about the Mike. It's super lazy. Mike, I don't care. My belief in God has nothing to do with this conversation right now. So, it is lazy. God specifically gave a commandment to Moses and told his people, "Do not murder." Well, goodbye, Mike. Goodbye. Clearly, you want to be a martyr, so be the martyr.

[00:18:05]>> Don't drop them. Don't drop them. Don't drop them. Don't drop.

[00:18:07]>> I did. I'm sorry. You want to be a martyr and throw slurs? Be a martyr. Go somewhere.

[00:18:11]>> I was I was going to let him know. I was going to let him know that, hey, you know, we don't do slurs on this channel.

[00:18:16]He is still listening, of course, but like just so we're all aware, Mike almost certainly knows that we don't allow slurs on this channel. And what happens all the time with [ __ ] idiots like that is that they will get into a point where they get really frustrated because they're having to answer for their own beliefs and they'll drop a slur so that we will drop the call and they can go home and tell all their [ __ ] stupid friends about how we hung up on them because we just couldn't handle their arguments and they just kept talking over me and they wouldn't even let me >> and my favorite thing. I don't care.

[00:18:48]>> I stepped away for one second. And I was still listening and I heard him [ __ ] about, "Oh, you totally mischaracterizing me." What happened was we put him on mute and we said, "See, he thinks that it's okay to own slaves sometimes. He thinks that slavery is okay." He's a [ __ ] idiot who thinks slavery is okay. And then he comes in and says, "You mischaracterized me. This is bullshit." And Jovon said, "Is it okay to own slavery?" He's like, "Yeah, I'LL SAY IT. I YEAH, IT'S FINE TO ENSLAVE SOMETIMES. IT'S SLAVERYY'S OKAY." He's a [ __ ] doofus. And >> also, I just wanted to be known, the rule of not slurring is in the description of the video that get into the >> literally so easy to figure out. But as always, when a little [ __ ] brain gets a big [ __ ] thought put at it, they just start throwing slurs and insults and crazy [ __ ] because that's all they [ __ ] have. Uh, and you know, I usually usually pretty chill with callers. Even the callers disagree with me. I won't I won't draw call them names or anything like that. But if you're a literal [ __ ] slavery apologist, I encourage you to get all the way [ __ ] bent, uh, I'm not going to be [ __ ] nice to you. And that conversation went on longer than I would have done it because Jovon is a kind and loving host and a forgiving man.

[00:19:57]>> I just like making people look how How do you have the How do you say the phrase it's okay to allow for slavery, but not okay to do it?

[00:20:06]>> Right? If you just watch and how does that make sense to logically say it's okay Forest to allow for murder.

[00:20:14]>> Did you know that it's actually okay to It's just not okay to do it, >> right? But if you set up your society saying, "Hey, if you want to go [ __ ] kill a kid, do it. Like have I'm not going to stop you. I'm not going to do it myself because I'm a good person. But do whatever you want, bro. All he has to do was [ __ ] have fun with