2000 AD grapples with its past(s) — In Orbit Every Wednesday

[00:00:00]It approaches once a year. The stars align.

[00:00:06]People travel across oceans and continents to come together to worship at the foot of Maron.

[00:00:15]It is time for San Diego Comic- Con.

[00:00:20]>> I'm not even going to be there this year and I'm tired.

[00:00:23]>> Neither of us are going to be there uh this year. But um we uh uh we're going to be touching on 2008's presence at uh the greatest show on earth TM um along with uh a Prague review >> finally >> in this week's Prague as in last couple.

[00:00:43]Everything happens and nothing happens.

[00:00:46]Everything comes together but everything stays apart. What's going on in 2008 AD?

[00:00:51]You will find out about this and so much more on this episode of >> In orbit every Wednesday.

[00:00:56]>> Get 2008 now. Get [music] Borak thong earthlitch. This is in orbit every Wednesday from the 2008 Thrillcast. I am your host Molchar and this is your host Chloe and we are here for half an hour of chat about the galaxy's greatest comics and specifically 2080 um for this week which uh I really should have written down the Prague number.

[00:01:37]>> I was taking bets in my head of whether you had the Prague number ready or not.

[00:01:42]>> It's it's on my It's just it turned off.

[00:01:44]Uh 2492.

[00:01:46]Um he said double checking in case he's got that wrong. Um because that wouldn't be the first time we've done that.

[00:01:53]>> Yes. 2492 uh with um a fantastic uh Clint Langley cover uh showing uh Judge Anderson. Um, lots to talk about in this uh in this issue, but uh before we crack on with that, uh thank you very much indeed for all your reactions to last week's episode featuring Alex Jaffy. Uh and possibly the most extreme reaction we've ever had to anything anyone has ever said on this podcast.

[00:02:22]Just >> it's good stuff. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so yes, thank thank you for for uh all the um the repeatable things you said about last week's episode. Uh keeping it civil. Um speaking of America, it is San Diego Comic-Con this week. Uh the droids will be there, booth 2121.

[00:02:45]Um, if you are there, there are various lovely bits of merchandise, uh, that you can get hold of, uh, including some, we're not allowed to call them show exclusives because you have to jump through certain hoops, uh, to use that word, but they're limited edition um, show merchandise. Uh, and one of the things is, uh, this delightful, this is the box, uh, San Diego limited edition enamel pin badge collector set, limited edition of 250. and you take it out of this little thing. And I've taken the badges out of this so that I can show them on camera, but it's a nice little kind of magnetic uh box. There's the holes for uh the badges to fit in.

[00:03:26]There's three. Um and uh they are a nice little Brian Boland. I'm not sure if my camera is gonna >> properly. It's trying its best. Nice little Brian Boland um judge's death there. Come on camera. It'll it'll go blurry on my own face, but it won't actually focus on. Um there's uh Rachel Scott. Um Judge Anderson. It does not want to cooperate at all, does it? Um, and my personal favorite, and I've been lobbying for this, and I I I would love to get this design on like um uh t-shirts and and all sorts, which is a a Cliff Robinson dread uh that says um you see that make judge dread fiction again.

[00:04:14]>> Oh god, we we've reached the point.

[00:04:19]>> Um but yeah, so all those uh all those three come in uh that collector's set.

[00:04:24]There's also a bunch of others which you can get. Uh most importantly, if you are not at San Diego and many are not, if you are a 2000 AD subscriber, then you will be able to uh buy these anyway um because we we like to make our uh show um merchandise available to our loyal subscribers. So, uh you will be receiving uh an email from us uh if you are signed up for uh the rewards program. If you are not, please go please go along to uh shop.2000.com, log in and uh tick the little box that says I want to receive marketing materials so that you can get notifications of the latest rewards, which will also include things like um shop discounts and further merchandise.

[00:05:12]So, um, >> it's one of the few times that clicking the promotional box is actually good, I would say. Like, for real.

[00:05:19]>> Absolutely. And we we we don't spam you.

[00:05:21]You, you know, the maximum number of emails you get in a year is like four.

[00:05:24]Um, but if you are a subscriber, then this is one of the benefits of subscribing. You you you get uh uh you're the only people allowed to buy these things out of the show. Um, so last year it was the um uh the big dread statue >> that we designed with Jock. Uh we've done um uh exclusive uh web shop covers for books. Uh the the Franchesco Franavilla um Rogue Trooper Blighty Valley cover.

[00:05:54]Uh so yes um if you're a subscriber you get access to buying those. So that will be this week. Um there's also um I mean there's what four panels?

[00:06:05]>> Yes.

[00:06:06]>> Yeah. Fight the future, fear the future.

[00:06:08]The 2008 AD one. No, three panels uh Fight the Future, Fear the Future, and the 2080 one. Um with guests including, uh Kelly Sudakonic, Duncan Jones, the writer director of the Rogue Trooper movie, uh Jock, uh our very own Steve Morris, uh who will be guest and moderator, as well as Oliver Pickles, who is our senior graphic novel editor.

[00:06:32]Um and, uh there'll be loads of other things going on, uh signings, things like that. Yes, >> he says remembering off the top of his head. But do go along to booth 2121 if you're at San Diego Comic-Con and [snorts] get an injection of thrill power. Um yeah, promotion done.

[00:06:53]>> That bit finished. [laughter] >> Only took five minutes. Um so, uh we are uh going to talk about the Prague this week. Um, mainly because it's been it's now been a few weeks since we um caught up with what's going on in the Prague.

[00:07:10]Uh, and we also did the Meg. Um, >> I'm kind of I'm kind of excited to do a little a little Prague catchup because >> kind of as we were as we were talking about >> there's a lovely car alarm going off in my neighborhood. Very excited about that. Um, uh, as we were talking about kind of leading up to recording, there is a through line >> right now and it's not necessarily one that's immediate to pick up right off the bat, >> but memories. Memory having to revisit the past is such a massive like thread roaming through the entire Prague right now. And it it's it's also something that I think um has come up as a theme a a subtext in our discussions a lot sure over the last year. Um and and it's to do with how 200 AD and its creators >> deal with the weight of history >> and specifically the weight of character history, the weight of continuity. Um, we have a very different attitude to continuity to say American superhero comics, but we still have an attitude towards continuity. It is malleable, but it exists. Yeah.

[00:08:32]>> So you it is not a shackle. It is a toy box in which you can play, you know, a sandbox in which you can play.

[00:08:38]>> Yeah. Um, and there's there's uh uh I mean in this issue we've obviously got um uh Judge Dread the UB ooiet >> which uh which continues and you know that's switching back and forth between Judge Rico and Judge Dread. You've got uh what's going on in the magazine.

[00:08:58]We're not going to touch on what's on the magazine this this this week because otherwise this is going to be another hour long.

[00:09:03]>> Yes. Um, but uh uh you've also got Brink, the the call of the void, which over the last few weeks is really uh >> it's tightening up.

[00:09:16]>> It's tightening up, but but it's it's also clarifying, I think, after weeks and weeks and weeks of uncertainty. Uh, and we'll we'll talk about this in more detail, but Curtis is is beginning to crack open the nut and kind of, you know, >> think clearly for the first time in a long time, like, you know, about about what's going on.

[00:09:40]Um, we've got The Fallen Dead World, uh, which, uh, you know, is itself dealing with with trauma and death and and all sorts. uh, Nightmare New York, which, you know, as uh, you know, a mix of of kind of magic and history, >> uh, is saying a lot about the the the the kind of foundations of of, uh, >> the fairy tale of New York. I mean,, you know, it's called Nightmare New York, but it's it's dealing with the fairy tales um, that built up around New York.

[00:10:12]And then Anderson side Vision, which is just a strip about trauma and always has been. Um, >> and always has been. [laughter] Um, so, uh, in terms of what's happening in the Ulier, it's really interesting actually that we've got this steady ramping up this this kind of march forward of Dread as he goes further and further up um, uh, through through the Ullet and is continually encountering aspects of 200 AD >> history. So, you know, we had Tweak the other week. Um, and now we're on to the NS and the Southernthers uh from Rogue Trooper, and we've also obviously got the Solves and and things like that. Um, Dread is walking through the past.

[00:11:05]>> Yeah.

[00:11:07]>> And we've had 40 years of of of stories. um and it's been particularly acute later in John Wagner's um time on the strip. So over the last sort of 1015 years where the the apocalypse war has come up again and again and again >> as like the defining moment in Dread you know >> sure as it should >> as it should um the the the the amount of death and destruction and trauma not just for the world around him but also you know what it what what what it means for him what happened with Chaos Day.

[00:11:41]Um, and so now he is step by step walking back through the he's, you know, it's almost like a kind of Scrooge like journey. He's being revisited by ghost of the past.

[00:11:52]>> Yeah, it's um it's it is it does have kind of like a Christmas carol feel to it. Um but in like an like a way darker sort of way. And it is in a way it is kind of passively question mark kind of addressing the fact that I mean it's an undeniable thing that dread despite being dread can't have lived through this history as we have read it without having some kind of like head [ __ ] like PTSD. D trauma.

[00:12:34]It's just that a it's never really truly addressed because I think that that that weakens the weakens I say with with bunny quotes uh the character um and what he's meant to stand for, but it does address it in a way that kind of uh it hits it dead on without uh making him seem like having a weak point, if that makes sense. It's h it's him having to face it head on through all of this and kind of give us an idea of what that space takes up in his head.

[00:13:10]>> Well, the disdain with which he still treats all of this, you know, is is fundamentally there.

[00:13:16]>> But I I find it interesting that that he's kind of moving in two directions >> temporally um which is got nothing to do with um fried vegetables. Uh, that's one of the worst dad jokes I think I've ever told. [sighs] >> We're going to move past it.

[00:13:38]>> Yeah. Let's just ignore that. Uh, but obviously he's kind of moving forward through his history because we we it's the story's touched on the cursed earth.

[00:13:47]>> Mhm.

[00:13:49]>> And then it's the the apocalypse war >> with the Savvs. Um the NS and Southernthers thing, you know, he has crossed over with Road Trooper at least once.

[00:13:59]>> Sure.

[00:14:00]>> Um but his body is regenerating.

[00:14:06]>> Mhm.

[00:14:07]>> One of his eyes has grown back.

[00:14:09]>> Yeah.

[00:14:09]>> Because of course, one of the things that everyone knows about Judge Dre is he's got bionic eyes, but one of his eyes has grown back. Um and so he he is effectively moving backwards and moving forwards through time.

[00:14:21]>> Yeah.

[00:14:22]And that's really tricky to do. And then you've got this other plot. You know, last week's episode was was um based around Giant, just Giant um uh with um Old Man Dread. Uh you've got um the stuff that's happening in the Meg >> with Giant and Rico and everybody. Um they're all moving forward at the normal pace. Anderson in the other strip in this issue is moving forward at a normal pace, but Dread is in this kind of weird >> Yeah. He's doing a little weaving weaving bobbing and weaving sort of thing.

[00:15:01]>> And and that's and that's fascinating.

[00:15:03]One and and not related to that necessarily.

[00:15:06]One thing I absolutely do want to pick up is I have long uh praised Nim for the way that he structures story, for the subtext he inserts.

[00:15:19]And in this episode, I think it's kind of perfect. I think this is this is one of the strongest moments of Dread's the bad guy since uh The Small House.

[00:15:32]>> Yeah, I could I can see that. It's uh I feel like I feel like that's something that is generally slowly being more leaned into and it's almost it's almost a necessary move I feel if you're writing on dread right now like you kind of you know it's make make Judge Dread fictional again like it's it's you you have to emphasize this but you doing it without like a in a hamfisted way like is kind of key. Yeah, >> it still has to be interesting. It's still Dread is still this main character that has to drive this forward.

[00:16:11]>> So, how do you do that while also emphasizing like this guy isn't the best one, but he is the main one. So, [laughter] >> and it it's it's this moment on the first page where um they you know, they've encountered the the the NS and the Southerns and one of the Southernthers has Dread's Eagle shoulder pad. Um uh and uh um the the the sov devil guy says uh which group do we fight for?

[00:16:43]And Dread looks at the Southernthers and he says not these creeps.

[00:16:47]>> Yeah.

[00:16:48]>> And he kills them or they kill them together and then he goes and does a deal with the NS.

[00:16:56]And that and that's great because and and and you know the strip makes the point is that the Southernthers think themselves the good guys but actually they're not they're just as bad as the Ns because the um of of this perpetual war. Um >> that's the point.

[00:17:11]>> Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Um so again it's it's Oh this um uh I can't remember the name of the ghost character gone completely out of my head.

[00:17:27]It's gone. Um, but the ghost character is following him around. Uh, she says, you know, the the Ns are fanatics, merciless psychos, products of a brutal militaristic autocracy.

[00:17:42]Like, yeah.

[00:17:44]>> Yeah.

[00:17:45]>> Sounds very familiar, doesn't it?

[00:17:47]>> Well, this is a familiar nail that we're hitting on.

[00:17:52]>> Yeah. [laughter] Um, and yes, southern diet Cynthy Soda versions are the same, only they've they've convinced themselves they're the good guys in their insane war. And so that shows a percept, you know, a perceptiveness about Rogue Trooper >> at the same time as it does Judge Dread.

[00:18:08]And that and that's really nice. Like I said, it's for me that's that's a mic drop in the same way that >> Yeah.

[00:18:16]>> Smiley saying we're fascist.

[00:18:18]>> We're fascists. Yeah. But but heavily loading up the subtext uh on that one.

[00:18:24]Um and uh you know because there's got to be somebody who's stabbed in the head, that [laughter] also happens. Um and so you like the way that the ubil ublier is ratcheting up, you know, step by step by step >> and it is taking its time. And that's something that we talk about often on here is that, you know, week to week because it is a weekly anthology comic, like there is time for everything to build up, but this is being >> the Ulia in particular and because it's running across two different things, right? Like it is just stretching everything out really beautifully. Um, but that there's not there's not a week where you feel like nothing's happening.

[00:19:10]There [clears throat] is there's a lot of heavy a lot of heavy context and especially playing with different you know um >> kind of different timelines and different different memory you know points.

[00:19:23]>> Yeah.

[00:19:23]>> So that it's all kind of gathering into this one giant thing. And I I I can't really fault I can't really fault it for that. Like I I I think you kind of mentioned that this is very slowly becoming another like proper mega epic as we as readers kind of have come to know them >> and that's really refreshing to see and it is being done in um a way that feels a little bit more fresh, a little bit new.

[00:19:57]>> Yeah. Well, it's it it's creating a center of gravity because previous mega epics where they've crossed over, you know, you think about trifecta, it was all and the dead man as well, you know, necropolis and the dead man. Um, >> it was all about surprise.

[00:20:12]>> You know, you you you you could look back and go, "Oh, here were the signs."

[00:20:17]But it was about the element of surprise, whereas this is creating a a gravity well that is drawing these other has been drawing these other stories in over time. So, it's kind of like the the gravity of the black tower and >> there's like a black hole element to it where everything's being drawn in. And I I almost >> my prediction at least is that it's it's drawing in all of these big big themes and characters and stories and it's all culminating into this black hole that is going to somehow make a a giant explosion that is much quieter and more subtle than we're expecting. like there is going to be a massive like mic drop, but it's going to be ASMR style. You know what I [laughter] mean?

[00:21:07]>> Uh for those who don't know what ASMR is, um uh I envy you because you're now going to go away and Google that and um have the time of your life.

[00:21:14]>> Totally and be totally freaked out.

[00:21:16]>> Yeah. Um but yeah, it's I because I'm reminded of um Helter Skeltter, which was the story that Gennis wrote. um was it the late '9s? Um and that that has its own storied history. There's there's a reason why that that exists, but in many ways it was trying to do a lot of what the Ubette um and the Black Tower were doing just a lot quicker.

[00:21:45]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:21:46]>> It was it was running through things going, you know, here's all these characters blah blah blah blah conclusion. Whereas actually this is much more satisfying because it it is slow burn. You know, we we're kind of being treated to this uh an age of of 2008 AD where yeah, there's lots of explosions. There's lots of guns and knives and people getting sliced in half.

[00:22:11]But the stories themselves are taking their time like they used to. I think there's a benefit to both for sure, >> but it feels like a little treat when we get something like this where you have to you have to sit and savor it a little bit.

[00:22:26]>> It makes the payoff feel more worth it.

[00:22:29]>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um >> but we can't just talk about dread this entire >> I know. I know. Uh well, we're gonna we're gonna talk about Brink now.

[00:22:38][laughter] >> There you go. We're talking about the other thing that will take up like 20 minutes.

[00:22:43]>> Yeah. Yeah. [laughter] Um, so, uh, with being the one thing that I I I I think I joked in a previous episode, uh, about the whole this meeting could have been an email thing. Um, the the and I and actually the last three episodes could have been one episode.

[00:23:04]>> Mhm.

[00:23:05]>> But I don't think it would have landed or explained things as well as it has.

[00:23:10]No, because again it's you're having to really sit and think about it.

[00:23:15]>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. And and what I love about this and and how it pulls into this this kind of loose theme of of the weight of memory and everything is bear in mind this is what book six.

[00:23:26]>> Yeah.

[00:23:27]>> Book seven, whatever it is. Um, and you've got uh uh Curtis last week basically going I could be wrong about all of this.

[00:23:43]>> Mhm.

[00:23:45]>> Like um you know and you you you assume that something like this is is leading up you know there's all these breadcrumbs, all these revelations. Is it leading up to the idea that, you know, the the the there's um, you know, giant space aliens living inside of planets that are going to hatch and it's all driving us mad and everything? Or is it just drug fuel fuel paranoia? Is it trauma from us being torn away from the earth um, and with the knowledge that we're all, you know, humanity is coming to an end.

[00:24:18]And all of a sudden, you know, the character is at the heart of this has this moment of clarity and and she goes, "Yeah, it could be any of these things."

[00:24:24]>> Yeah.

[00:24:24]>> I've I've been affected by all of this.

[00:24:26]You know, I've had visions. I've had moments, but they could have been um just hallucinations and and and whatnot.

[00:24:32]And >> for for a series to get to this point, and this I mean, this this story is slow burn.

[00:24:39]>> Yeah.

[00:24:40]>> A slowburn masterass.

[00:24:42]>> Yeah. Yeah. Um, all the while you've got Leen who's who's who's this um, you know, the big bad >> who's [clears throat] moving through this story. Uh, I there was an episode a few weeks ago where literally he's in the background of every other panel.

[00:25:00]>> Yeah.

[00:25:00]>> Um, and in [clears throat] this one, you know, she she's talking to um, uh, Cutwell, who's the head of of mission security on the moon.

[00:25:14]And you know, she has to basically winkle her out of her shell. She had she basically has to say, "Look, stop stop with all the cloak and daggers.

[00:25:25]>> Mhm.

[00:25:25]>> Just let's just be honest." And and this is this is what Curtis represents for me as a character. It's basically uh a light.

[00:25:34]>> She is the the light of truth and revelation. and she doesn't realize it, >> but she is shining a light into the dark corners that aren't full of monsters. They're just full of shadows.

[00:25:46]>> Yeah, I think there Yeah, I think you kind of hit the nail on the head with that, too. And that kind of goes into a point that I was going to bring up about Curtis as well, which is I um I deeply appreciate just how human the characters in this are and her in particular >> because I love a character that feels really set in stone because especially in comics like you have a a character that has a concept, they function in this way and that's how it's done. But there's something incredibly human about having a character that can have a realization and come to terms with the fact that everything that they are doing and how they've handled something and what they know is wrong and then have to backtrack.

[00:26:35]>> Like being the >> the idea of a character being able to change their mind and change their p perspective is something that you just don't see very much in the main character energy of comics, right? So, there is something very very human about this.

[00:26:55]>> Just let the dog just just let the dog bark.

[00:26:58]>> Yeah, I'm just going to There's I am the only person in my house right now. He's just sad. So, [laughter] >> it's just is what it is. He agrees with me, by the way. That's what that was.

[00:27:09]>> Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Um, but yeah, I I I mean, you know, as always, we are a Brink fan podcast at the end of the day. It's >> it's unavoidable. We all we all were going to land back on my god, just keep reading Brink every week. [laughter] >> I mean, bear in mind, we are I mean, this story is up to episode 21.

[00:27:29]>> Yeah, it just keeps going. I love it.

[00:27:33]>> Just incredible. Just incredible. Um, uh, coming on to The Fall of Dead World, um, part six. Uh, one of the things I I wanted to highlight was, so we had, you know, a nice sequence with Judge Fear, >> uh, you know, talking about the weight of memory and of of trauma and everything. You know, it you've got, um, uh, Fairfax and Eastwood dealing with everything that's gone before. Um, and the future trying to scare them into giving up.

[00:28:07]>> Yes. Um, and I like I I I I like how they're not they they are continuing to fight. And >> it's all a metaphor, Michael.

[00:28:20]>> It's all a metaphor. Uh, but there's there's a on the last page of this week's episode, um, one of the Savvs, uh, where the the kind of SV chief, uh, says, "You and I have much to discuss. a mutually assured survival.

[00:28:39]>> Mhm.

[00:28:40]>> And this this is like a key moment for me on this strip. We know what's going to happen to these people.

[00:28:49]>> Yes.

[00:28:50]>> Like there there is no hope. We have, you know, and and and unless they're going to pull a switcheroo and say that this isn't dead world or anything like that, we know what happens to dead world.

[00:29:01]>> Yeah.

[00:29:02]Um, and so every moment of hope isn't a lie. It's just >> No, it's just feudal.

[00:29:11]>> It's just futile.

[00:29:13]>> Futile.

[00:29:14]>> Futile. Uh, >> but that doesn't make it any less impactful because it's one more day, you know? It's one more day that they're alive. It's one more alliance. It's one more, you know, moment of human connection.

[00:29:28]Well, I mean, we come back to the conversation that I feel like we've been having a lot lately about um 2008 AD stories and about like these types of stories in particular where, you know, there's no there's no straight optimism to be had in any of this. Um but that doesn't mean that there is a lack of it.

[00:29:48]It just looks a little bit different. It looks a little bit more realistic. And yeah, like we we all know what's what is going to happen. I get like you said, unless they pull a switcheroo, which honestly I would be like, ah, but like we all kind of know what's going to happen here.

[00:30:06]>> But that doesn't make the uh that doesn't make the presence of even the smallest bit of hope um invaluable.

[00:30:16]>> Yeah. because it is what drives the story along and it is what makes the characters actually have an important place in the story.

[00:30:27]>> You know, otherwise it would be like again it would just be futility.

[00:30:31]>> Yeah.

[00:30:32]>> And that's not a story.

[00:30:34]>> That's not a story at all. That just fall like that that's that falls flat >> with that tiny little bit of hope >> regardless of how it ends up or how we get there. [laughter] drives things along.

[00:30:48]>> Yeah. I mean, without without the hope in a story, it's just nihilism. It's one of the reasons why a lot of the kind of big dystopian novels and movies I just can't watch because I just I just come away depressed and I, you know, I need something within that. Not not as we say silly hope or you know a happy ending but more just uh something more than just >> trauma powered upon trauma power upon trauma.

[00:31:21]>> Yeah. Well, it's it's the it's the oxygen >> really. Yeah.

[00:31:26]>> You know, to keep it to keep to keep a flame of something alive, you have to have oxygen. And so having a little having that little bit of >> that little bit of optimism in a in an otherwise desolate universe [laughter] kind of keeps something going. And yeah, you can't you can't do it without it. As schmaltzy as that might seem, um, there's ways to do hope without being schmaltzy. Is I guess that's kind of the point that I'm getting to is like there's there's ways to inspire without coming across as like everything's going to be great in the end.

[00:32:02]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Um, so, uh, just moving on to Nightmare New York. Um because again it's it's an interesting setting for a story is basically um New York at one of the moments in its history when it is really the the the city of immigrants. I mean it always has been. I mean, yeah, >> but but [laughter] in terms of when it was beginning to define itself and tell the story, you know, beginning to tell the stories about itself, um that we recognized. Um one thing I I I did want to say is, um uh if you're ever in New York, absolutely go to the Tenement Museum.

[00:32:50]>> Yeah. where they have preserved um uh some of the old immigrant housing and they've dressed it up um or not even dressed it up but just restored it. So that one room is is um from the uh the great uh Italian diaspora that came at a certain point. Uh the the great Irish diaspora, the great German diaspora. Um, and possibly one of the most evocative museums I think I've ever been into.

[00:33:22]>> Really?

[00:33:23]>> Yeah.

[00:33:24]>> I imagine you've been to a shitload. So that's >> Oh, quite a few. Quite [laughter] a few.

[00:33:28]Uh, but but it's it's because it it's so um domestic.

[00:33:36]>> Yeah.

[00:33:36]>> You know, >> it's familiar.

[00:33:38]>> Yeah. This isn't a castle. It's not a palace. It's not a um, you know, a white house or anything like that. Um it's just ordinary people's lives. Um, and so, you know, I mean, particularly with um, uh, David Roach's artwork, uh, that that's the the thing that kind of gets evoked for me, this this notion of of New York is this as the melting pot. And within that, >> that's the metaphor again, Michael.

[00:34:07]>> Um, [laughter] uh, but but but also it's it's doing something that, um, h what was it called? Uh, it was a TV show set in Victorian London.

[00:34:20]It was like an orphanage.

[00:34:24]Oh, the Nether. Not the Nethers. The Nethers. I think it was >> the Nether.

[00:34:28]>> Nethers. Very different kind of uh >> That's the porn parody. [laughter] >> Yes. The uh the Nethers. Uh oh, Jos Weeden. Oh well.

[00:34:39]>> Oh well.

[00:34:40]>> But uh yeah. um epic science fiction drama about a gang of Victorians who find themselves with unusual abilities due to alien intervention, relentless enemies, and a mission that might change the world. Um and you you you've got one of the central characters who's this widow who basically collects these vagrants and and urchins and whatnot. And um you know that that that's something that Nightmare New York reminded me of just this notion of in in this big melting pot you're going to get people who find themselves isolated for various reasons and they're interacting with not just their own history but the history of all the layers of people around them as well. And you know um coming back to our theme.

[00:35:29]>> Oh, you finally looped it back around there. I like it. Yeah, I'm a pro. Um, something like that. Um, but yeah, and then um Oh, yeah, I real I realized I've done it again. I've just I've I've talked for about 10 minutes.

[00:35:47]>> Yeah, that's [laughter] I think this has been a conversation. I promise. You've become overly aware of your own talking.

[00:35:55]>> I have. [laughter] Um, yeah. Uh yeah. Um I mean we we we've kind of touched on the Joe Anderson story anyway.

[00:36:06]>> Yeah, a little bit.

[00:36:07]>> As part of the the Ulietette, >> but I I did want to say how much I'm enjoying Rob Richardson's um artwork on this.

[00:36:14]>> It's really great.

[00:36:16]>> It's um I don't I actually don't know the right way I don't really know the right way to describe it. It's almost ethereal. I [laughter] like it's There's there's something I Yeah, I can't I can't quite put my thumb on what it is that's doing it for me.

[00:36:36]>> Um, one thing and uh people are going to have to bear with me on this. Uh >> oh boy.

[00:36:42]>> Yeah, I know. Um it reminds me a little of the work of Kevin Cullen.

[00:36:51]Now, Kevin is no longer with us, I believe, uh, but he was the artist on a series um, in the magazine written by Sci Spencer, who is also no longer with us, called uh, The Creep.

[00:37:04]>> And The Creep was a a Dread World Horror series. Um, Kevin's artwork was uh, very it was black and white. It was deepuro effect.

[00:37:17]Um lots of kind of um almost like chalk and pastel on paper effects >> to denote the kind of >> uh rotting edges of shadows and all and it was a a deeply unsettling series. Um remembered very fondly by me by complete contrast. Rob Richardson's work is very pastely and light and colorful.

[00:37:42]It's there there is a mix of of umh there's an actual there's an actual term for it but it's um it's the contrast of weight on the page.

[00:37:53]>> Okay.

[00:37:54]>> Uh there's yeah like because it is really it is very pastely. It's very blended. It's very um yeah kind of ethereal is what I was trying to initially said but then the lines are so heavy.

[00:38:06]>> Yeah. Yeah, >> the line work is so heavy and it's a it's kind of a cool contrast because it does like it [ __ ] with your eye a little bit when you're trying to navigate the page. And I actually I I actually like that a lot. It's playful.

[00:38:19]>> Yeah. And and and and also, you know, in this episode, um Anderson uh goes into this uh this little kid's head and the the the lines disappear.

[00:38:35]She's the only character in that setting that is >> defined by black lines. Everything else is is basically like this pastel >> drawing which I I really like as a as a as a storytelling conceit. Um, reminds me a lot, I think, of of the of uh the run on Anderson from the '9s, the postcards from the edge >> after um u um after she left the judges, where there's lots of contrasts of artwork going on. Uh and uh uh that that's a positive in my eyes. Uh, I know some people didn't necessarily uh chime with that, but um >> it's not shared by everyone.

[00:39:20]>> Yeah. But I, you know, I I I like it.

[00:39:23]It's a different It's a different take on Anderson. Um, but yeah, I I it's we kind of we delved into the the theme.

[00:39:34]where we teased out the theme this this this week rather than necessarily um uh it's not it's not an overt theme this week. It's very much a subplot theme.

[00:39:47]>> Yes, but we don't we we too can work in metaphor. Michael [laughter] it's not I think it's actually good sometimes especially especially with the Prague having so many stories that are so drawn out. I actually think it's a good thing to kind of tease out the discussion and tease out the the themes and the sub themes and things like that because >> these are stories that are intended for the reader to kind of come up with their own idea of what this means, right? So, we're not here to tell you what to think. We're just here to tell you what we think. [laughter] >> And we're dumb.

[00:40:29]Well, uh, as, uh, as we went through last week, uh, everyone is entitled to their opinion, but sometimes people's opinions are just wrong. Um, hi, Alex.

[00:40:42]Um, >> he's never listened to this podcast.

[00:40:46]>> No, that is [laughter] that is probably true. That is probably true. Um, so we got to we got to bring things to a close now. Um I just wanted to make sure earthlets that uh you have ensured that you are keeping the um the date for the 50th anniversary of 2008 AD in your minds. Now if you are a subscriber to the 2008 thrill mail which goes out to every week. If you are not please go along to 20080.com and subscribe. You get loads of free comics when you sign up. But uh a few weeks ago, you will have received an email that says 6th to the 7th of March, 2027.

[00:41:27]Save the date. Um I will say no more >> than that. Uh but make sure that you uh yeah, put it in your diary. Um and uh and keep your eyes peeled. We should be letting you know as soon as we can what delightful things we have in store.

[00:41:44]>> Something brewing.

[00:41:46]>> Yeah. Um uh also uh 3rd of October um which uh I haven't told you about yet. Uh but um we're going to be uh yeah announcing uh a fun little something uh for uh for then. So again, keep your eyes peeled. Uh I would It's not a not a new movie, not a TV series, not a new game, just it's just something else. I just had >> killing the speculation right now. I always have to just head people off the p off at the past because they they get annoyed when it's not whatever wild invention that they have uh uh dreamt up. So um yeah, a couple of dates for the diary. Um and uh yeah, hope everybody who's at San Diego [laughter] is enjoying themselves uh and uh gets one of the exclusive uh bad sets and says hello to the droids who are there. Um We're going to be back in seven days times from war from the greatest galaxy from the galaxy's greatest podcast show.

[00:42:54]In the meantime, uh it's goodbye from me, goodbye from Chloe, and as always, splendid birth rig.

[00:43:04]>> See you next week.

[00:43:05]>> Get 200 now. Get Why?