What Is the Source of Suffering? | Michael James

[00:00:08]Michael in Western religion, evil is a problem to be solved given the assumption that God is all-powerful and all good. How do you articulate the two?

[00:00:18]In Eastern traditions, as I understand it, evil and the response to it actually is not a problem to solve, but it's it's sort of forms the foundation of the philosophy.

[00:00:29]Um so, how in the development of uh Advaita Vedanta and uh Sri Ramana in particular's view, uh what is the the the the role or the importance of evil in the one sense and the source of suffering uh for for uh for human beings?

[00:00:49]Okay.

[00:00:50]Evil and suffering are certainly problems to be solved. Uh but it's not there's no philosophical resolution to it. It's not for for in Eastern philosophy, it's not a problem for God. Because there um whereas in the Abrahamic religion, the primary role of or great emphasis is put on the on on the role of God as creator. Yeah. In Eastern philosophy, for example, in in Hindu philosophy, according to Hindu mythology, the creator of the world is Brahma. That's not Brahman, but Brahma.

[00:01:32]He he's the creator.

[00:01:35]He's the one God who is not worshipped in any temple.

[00:01:39]So, we because creation isn't considered to be such a great thing.

[00:01:44]Or from creation comes all the trouble.

[00:01:47]So, the then um the sustainer is Vishnu.

[00:01:51]And the uh the one who brings about the dissolution of the world is Shiva.

[00:01:57]Shiva and Vishnu are worshipped. Brahma is not worshipped. So, they they don't give the same centrality to God as creator. Mhm. Um of course, these three, though they're they're they're called Trimurti, the three forms, are ultimately forms of the same one reality.

[00:02:16]Um but the the fact that Brahma is not worshipped is because creation is not considered to be such a good thing.

[00:02:26]That is the the the the view There's a term that is used not only in Hinduism, but in all religions of Indian origin, whether Jainism, Buddhism, Sikhism. Um I mean, they're all one family of religions.

[00:02:42]They all talk about samsara.

[00:02:45]Samsara um is There's no there's there's no English equivalent of samsara. We can tran- we can explain it as embodied existence and so forth that captures it fairly well, but it's just the it's the the state of worldly existence of being being embodied and being in this world.

[00:03:12]Suffering is the very nature of samsara.

[00:03:15]Or to be more precise, samsara is a mixture of pleasure and pain.

[00:03:21]Um The reason for suffering is from the Advaitic point of view, our real nature is infinite happiness.

[00:03:32]When we limit ourself as ego by identifying ourself as an embodied being, as a person, we uh we uh we separate ourself, so to speak. We don't actually separate ourself. We seem to have separated ourself from the infinite happiness that we actually are.

[00:03:56]So, as ego, we we cannot experience infinite happiness because ego is a finite awareness, so it cannot experience infinite awareness. So, the very nature of ego is dissatisfaction.

[00:04:11]The word for dissatisfaction i- in in in Sanskrit is dukha.

[00:04:17]It's often translated as uh misery, suffering, but the the most basic meaning is dissatisfaction.

[00:04:27]>> [snorts] >> Um This is This is one of the four noble truths in Buddhism.

[00:04:34]The the fact of suffering. So, it is just a fact of embodied existence.

[00:04:39]Um As embodied creatures, we're very vulnerable.

[00:04:43]We're vulnerable to disease, we're vulnerable to the aging process, we are vulnerable to accidents, we're vulnerable to in so many ways. So, it uh suffering is an an inevitable consequence of being embodied.

[00:05:01]So, this is this is not something we we don't blame God for our embodied existence.

[00:05:09]God, particularly in um that is in all forms of Vedanta, they talk about uh three functions of God, creation, sustenance, and dissolution.

[00:05:20]But in Shaivism, they talk about five functions of God. That is creation, sustenance, dissolution.

[00:05:28]The fourth one is veiling.

[00:05:30]Veiling means the ignorance in which the appearance of creation, sustenance, and dissolution take place.

[00:05:39]That veiling can be can be uh conceptualized in two ways.

[00:05:45]One is that God conceals his real nature from us. From a more from a more theistic point of view, God has concealed his real nature from us. And because we don't know God as he is, we experience this creation, sustenance, and dissolution.

[00:06:00]Uh birth and death, the the the cycle of birth and death, samsara.

[00:06:07]The final function of God is anugraha, which is grace.

[00:06:12]And that for uh particularly for um Vedantins, that's the ultimate function of God. That is the function that removes the ignorance in which this appearance of creation, sustenance, and dissolution take place.

[00:06:28]So, the ultimate function of God is to remove the veiling.

[00:06:32]So, the primary from from a from a Vedantic point of view, we don't look upon God as the source of suffering, we look upon God as the savior from suffering.

[00:06:47]So, the the though though God also um seemingly plays the roles of creator, sustainer, dissolver, and the veiler of all these things, the ultimate role of God is to save us from all these things.

[00:07:03]When we are ready to be saved, God will never force salvation upon us until we are ready for it.

[00:07:11]We are not ready for it because we are still attached to our our the the finite existence. We're attached to this our bodily existence.

[00:07:21]And so, we are not yet ready to surrender ourself completely.

[00:07:25]That is why the ultimate aim of all spiritual paths is complete self-surrender.

[00:07:32]To give ourself back to our source.

[00:07:35]When you say self-surrender, what does that literally mean? That means from the Advaitic point of view, particularly from the point of view of Ramana's teaching, it is the subsidence and dissolution of ego.

[00:07:50]We we we Now, we have a seemingly separate self. That seemingly separate self we return to its source, the pure being awareness that we actually are.

[00:08:04]And so, in terms of the morality of the things that we should do, uh goodness is um is it a is it a rule to follow or is it somehow derivative of this larger concept?

[00:08:20]Um There are all religions lay lay down rules that you should be good.

[00:08:26]But um that is necessary for some people.

[00:08:31]People have to be told, "If you're bad, you'll go to hell. You'll suffer the consequences." All this is there in all [clears throat] religion. In in the religions of Indian origin, it's it's put in terms of the law of karma.

[00:08:45]As you But it's there also in Christianity. As you sow, so you shall reap. Mhm. But um that principle is taken further in Indian religions.

[00:08:56]Not only as you sow, so you shall reap, as you are now reaping, so you have sown in the past.

[00:09:02]So, um you you can't have one without the other. Otherwise, um it Well, somehow the the the Indian concept of of rebirth is is somehow seems a much more much more reasonable and fairer system than that we um that we you just have one chance. If you mess up this one chance, then eternal damnation.

[00:09:31]>> [snorts] >> Heaven and hell are there in Hinduism, Buddhism, and everything. They're all there, but they're the fruits of karmas.

[00:09:39]And karmas are finite, the fruits of karmas are finite. So, if you end up in hell, it's a temporary state.

[00:09:46]It's it's it's you're experiencing the fruit of your bad karmas. If you end up in heaven, it's a temporary state.

[00:09:53]Eventually, you have to come back. The ultimate goal is not heaven or hell. The ultimate goal is liberation, which is the ending of samsara.

[00:10:02]The dissolution of ego.

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