This video explores the philosophical tension between believing in God and living a life that reflects that belief, examining whether religious claims are genuinely held or merely inherited traditions. The discussion challenges believers to consider if their actions, fears, and behaviors truly align with their stated faith, and whether a truly all-loving, all-powerful God would allow suffering and moral inconsistencies. The speaker argues that if someone truly believed in an all-knowing, all-powerful God who watches every thought and action, their life should look completely different from how most believers actually live.
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You Don't Really Believe In God The Sequel ( Join Live Discord Chat)Hinzugefügt:
All right. What's up? Going to see what we can get today. I had a few people that sent me a an invite yesterday. We'll see if those people show up.
and then uh go from there.
You know, I guess it's possible, you know, nobody shows up, but that's okay.
See what we can do. I was surprised how many people showed up yesterday, so I felt uh why not give it another try. Clicked the wrong button. So, hello.
See what we can do.
Don't have many uh I don't have any planned subjects at the moment, but we'll kind of see how it goes.
What are your four favorite insects and bugs to eat? Worms, potato bugs, cockroaches.
if I had to choose. H I mean, I guess if like Oh crap, my volume just went crazy. Sorry about that. Let me turn that down a little bit.
Um I guess if I had to, if I'm starving, it's probably worms first, right? I think uh eat some worms. Cockroaches would be tough.
So, hold on. Let me turn down my gain a little bit. Sounds like it's picking me up quite a bit when I get too loud.
That's a weird question, though. So, I'm going to have to ask you the same thing back now.
What's your uh what's your answer?
try to stretch this out.
I want bigger.
I'm still trying to get all this stuff set up. So, as we go along and I do more of these, I'll get it I'll get it looking how I want because I like things to beh as professional as possible.
So, eventually I will get this set up exactly how I want it.
Of course, don't forget to click your buttons and all that stuff.
People can't see air, but breathing God's air is You got to come in here. Uh, you were we look, you you thanked me for not booting you yesterday, right? So, you got you should come in here and talk to me. I think I'm a pretty friendly person, right? I'm a pretty friendly human. So, don't don't be afraid to come in here and chat.
Uh, as I've stated, I don't know if you've actually watched any of my videos, but as I have stated, I do not think you can control your beliefs. So, you you believe what you believe, but I also think you should probably come say why and defend it.
That's how I look at it. But, uh, thanks for thanks for coming back.
I'm not sure what was going on yesterday about people talking about banning people, but from what I could see is I could not see like anything like bad going on. I don't know.
But let me uh do this here.
it height to be bigger, right?
Yeah. There we go.
Yeah, I know you say the evidence is all over, but um come chat with me, right?
Because how I look at it is uh the evidence you have should be able to convince anyone, right? If you convinced if it convinced you, it should be able to convince anyone. At least that I hope you think that as well.
And I if I had that kind of evidence, I would just share it all the time to be fair. When I was when I was just like we spoke about yesterday, when I was just a crazy believer, man, I was I was spreading this stuff all the time.
That's that's all I could do. The only thing that mattered to me was talking about God, right?
I stated before, I was I didn't care about sports, even though I was good in sports. And my coaches used to get mad at me because I never understood why any of this mattered if the Bible was true.
Nothing that we were doing mattered. But I see the world and society, even even believers living their lives just like everybody else. So, it's I don't know.
Um, uh, what do you mean you don't really believe in God? Kind of what I'm talking about now. I don't I how should I word this without being rude to people, I guess. Um, I I think if you uh really 100% believed in God, at least in America, by the way, or United States, I don't nobody lives like they believe in God.
Like just imagine like if you're talking about the biblical God by the way, why are you why are you going to work?
Like like why are you why are you doing all of these other things that are are not important, right?
Like Jesus Jesus himself, if you want to believe it, says drop everything and and follow him. No one no one's doing that.
Yeah, like no, no one's doing that. Uh wouldn't be science or scientists if didn't have God's creating to investigate.
Uh I believe people seeking God can find truths, right? But that does not mean God is there, right? the um there was a point in time where everyone was religious even scientists and there are certain discoveries that came from religious people trying to find God. It does not mean that God is was there right?
Yo yo what up Bean?
That's one of my buddies right there.
Mr. Mr. Bean Daddy's heard me uh say many of these things plenty of times.
That's for sure.
Uh after the afterlife can't believe in God. It would be too late. That would be great to talk about because why is an allloving God not forgiving you after you die, right? That's not all loving.
That's not all forgiving. Not all forgiving. Um that's not very forgiving.
As we we are taught to forgive each other without any uh without any um what should I say? I don't even know what word I'm trying to use. I just got off work so I'm a little out of it. um without requiring anything from you, I am told to forgive and the greatest being in existence cannot do the same thing. It's that's kind of strange. Why do we hold ourselves to a higher standard than God?
Like you probably hold your neighbor to a higher standard than you do God, right? I I think that's something to think about.
humans can't um aren't you comprehending God and speaking for God at the moment, right?
Like we are we are saying exactly what God wants without being God. So I think we are all speaking for God. Me too.
You you as well. You're you're speaking for God.
Oh yeah. I mean there's always whatever we want to call evil around, right? But what I have noticed and that's what started making me get my channel back going was a lot of these evil people man are the people talking about being Christians man like a lot of these people in our government right now are praising Jesus and taking away people's rights and all sorts of things going on in the name of Jesus by the way protecting Peter. I don't know if you can say that on YouTube. Protecting Epstein type people while saying that they they praise God.
Uh well, if you think about like if it's a atheist, right, they're not believing what you're saying. So, you can critique something and not believe it, right?
It's kind of like if you think about uh I like Harry Potter as an example.
Voldemort is a bad guy. Do I really believe Voldemort is real? No. But I can critique the character and like you're you're text you're you're typing enough by the way. You might as well just hop in and we can just chat and you don't have to type.
just saying you wanna if you want to hop in and have a conversation, I am I am a nice person.
Really, I'm not gonna I'm not going to cuss you out or anything like that. We will just have a discussion.
So, feel free.
I'm gonna I'm trying to see if uh any of these guys or whoever u any of these people popped back in that sent me a a friend request. I can't talk sometimes on Discord.
Hey, what up?
Leave my elevator alone. I like that name.
Leave my elevator alone.
So, how was how was everybody's day? You know, how are you guys doing? I hope you're doing well. I hope you're ready to question your beliefs.
I'm laughing at myself yesterday. I haven't got to go back through the VOD.
Uh, but I thought it was pretty hilarious. I couldn't even remember my own um my own lines kind of. It was really funny. I was trying to do my sign off and I couldn't I couldn't remember what I always say in the video. Good.
That was that was hilarious to me. Let me see if I can get this to stop blowing around.
Want some Mo loaded chachos. Nachos. Mo I think I heard of a place mo but you might not. It's windy outside might not be in the same area but no you don't got to say where you at. So, Mo, I heard of some Moes, but there's probably plenty of Moes.
Look like uh our buddy uh Kindred, it was a he was he was cool to talk to yesterday. I'm actually going to see if he wants to come in here.
Let's see if he wants to have a round two.
Yeah, he says he wants to talk again.
So, we're we're going to we're going to have him talk again.
He he actually must have heard his ears.
What do you say when uh when somebody is talking about you? Do your ears like tingle or something? I can't remember what it is.
The tall already.
Hey, let's you know, hey, everybody can chat, man. Just um all I can say is what I would rather um if if you're making claims even in the chat, I think it's okay for other people to ask you to provide some proof. Okay? So, uh be prepared to be called out if you make a claim because I will do the same.
make air.
I kind of curious what you mean when you say make air.
I mean, we kind of do know what air is made out of. We can make a vacuum. So, we can suck the air out of a place.
That's kind of cool, right? The fact that we know that.
At least, you know, it's kind of what I think.
Makes sense, right? We can we can suck the air out of place.
I got some orange juice.
Orange juice.
My little my little orange juice.
And my hair is kind of tripping today.
When you look at yourself in the camera, you notice a lot of stuff. All right.
Cool.
Yeah, he says he's going to join later.
So, we at least got somebody for later if we're still on. Um, let me look at my the recent video we did was the one on Carl Sean. I don't know if you guys have seen that one. If you haven't, go take a look.
Uh Carl Sean said some pretty cool stuff. So the one that I was excuse me the one I did the last video on was Carl Sean speaking to what's the gentleman's name?
One moment. I don't know the other guy's name. I just know who Carl Sean is.
What is this fool's name? I don't know.
It was some late night interview type of thing back in the day. And um Sean was bringing up the fact that it was a good point because why like why if if God is perfect in this scenario, why does God have to meddle anything? Why does God have to meddle around after creation?
Why didn't God just make it perfect the first time around? And and usually that argument is like combed or the apologetic to the argument, right? Is it's part of the plan or I'm sure you can think of other other reasons. But the key thing to me is what is what's heaven then? Right? So if we have to go through this process and the reason is free will or whatever reasons we want to give. So what happens in heaven?
Are all those things taken away from me when I get to heaven or is is there just no free will anymore? Uh what's what's going on there? And if it's possible to have created heaven, why not have just made that in the first place? Right?
So like why why not just start there and make heaven honestly don't even make any people that aren't going to go to heaven. Let's just like like you can still have free will, right? We can like I can imagine creating a place that the only people I create have free will, but I already know they're only choosing the path to heaven, right? Like, so, so don't don't have anybody there that's not going to take the correct path. That's that's mean.
Like, I'm being nice with my words there, but that's just mean.
I feel like that's mean. Uh, he could if he took free will away.
So, I'm guessing you're agreeing with me there on like how do you create heaven, right?
Because what happens when like your mother's there like say your mother made it. We always talk about moms like they're like moms can't be bad by the way.
But anyways, I'm going to still go with that. But like what happens if your mom's in heaven and you're not? Is she sad?
He could if he took free will away.
Uh we do it to ourselves.
Yes. But technically there God did not give free will like you're saying, right?
Did you choose to come here or did were you just born and God just allowed you to be born? Right there. Free will is a weird one, right?
Because what is free will at like what really is it? If God made my brain the way it is, um I did not have free will to think any other way than the way that I think. You don't have free will to you don't have free will to choose your beliefs, right? You just believe something. If somebody presents enough evidence, you believe it. And there's just this trigger in your brain that flips and then all of a sudden you believe.
So you're not choosing to believe. So free will with beliefs is I think easily proven wrong. Right.
Well, then you'd be able to I think you mean when you say uh free will to believe, I think you're saying that you have the free will to act as if you believe.
I I really feel that's what most people mean because honestly like like like really in um why wouldn't I just believe or why wouldn't I just make myself believe, right?
That's a pretty fun thing to believe.
Let's just to be real about it. Hey, I'm going to die. I get forgiven for I get forgiven for anything. And I don't even mean that in some way of like I'm like a bad person and I want to do bad things.
Like in general, I think I don't ever want to harm people or do bad things.
But it would be awesome to really believe fully like, "Hey, guess what, man? you're just forgiven no matter what and still be a good person by the way.
So I think a bunch of people would just choose to believe if you could just choose to believe. So I'm curious if you mean we have the free will to act as if we believe because those are different.
I mean, we can make the claims that all these things are real, but I think if I presented something to you, you would tell me to prove it, but you're you're making these claims, but you will not provide any proof, right?
Because if I say something to you that like I'm saying, hey, this just this God's not real, you're going to tell me to prove it. So, I think it it would require you to prove things as well.
That's only fair.
How does Anubis feel like that's like Egyptian, right? Am I right on that?
Yeah. What if you're what if you're wrong about uh the Muslim hell? You believe in uh Christianity. What if you're like the Muslim hell?
If hell is real, I guess yes, you're right. But what if you're wrong about another hell? Like that's the question.
What if you're wrong? Can you be wrong?
Can you Can you be honest with us here and say that you could be wrong? How about that? And if you can't be wrong, you should be able to provide us proof.
And I want I want the proof, man.
Uh, let's see. Well, the discussion is supposed to be you really don't believe in God. So, youth first proved I don't really believe in God. Oh, well. Hey, if you want to hop in, we can have a chat.
Uh, if you look into the description, I would have to talk to you to prove that you probably don't really believe in God, it's kind of something that like I mean, us sitting here and you typing like, but hey, if you want to come chat, uh, just send me a friend request and we can chat.
There's some questions I would need to ask you, though.
Just a just a few questions.
People wear seat belt for caution and don't know if any accident will happen.
People should save their soul.
Okay.
Yes. But even that is against your argument because we know seat belts work. And before seat belts were implemented, they did testing on seat belts to prove that seat seat belts save lives, right? There's there's proof behind it.
Got another friend request here. Let me accept it to see who that's from.
We'll see.
We'll accept it.
We'll just see what they say.
Hopefully, we can get somebody in here.
I mean, we can, like I said, it's a little off topic, but talking about um how religion spread, that's not a nice picture.
Not at all.
If you can't, the accident is going to happen.
I don't know. I feel like um is it bal?
I feel like you're kind of not listening to anything I say there and you're just kind of saying your lines, unfortunately.
I kind of would like you to maybe respond to what I'm saying a little bit, but all good. It's tough.
Tough, man.
Stupid curtains get on my nerves.
see how um let's see how can we break this down because you're saying be cautious about something that you don't know exists or doesn't you don't think exists right I think there's plenty of things that you aren't or or sorry, you aren't afraid of that you just don't know exist, right?
Obviously, we wouldn't be able to think of those things, but there are things that we don't know of that you should be afraid of. Or actually, you know what?
Let's think of it this way. Like, um, it is very certain that one day a a comet or some kind of rock will smash into the earth again.
You are probably not afraid of that at all. You like you you probably don't have any precaution things that you have done. Like you just don't care.
Like you you probably just don't even worry about it.
Wait, who? Wait, what? What? COVID 19.
Where did that come from?
Talking about co lost on that one. You cure COVID 19. I don't know. I don't know what that means, bro.
saying we have any uh believers in the chat?
Anyone that's not afraid to come chat?
Don't be scared.
I see prayer in like two ways. Um, at least what I've seen myself is if you pray something works out, everybody says it's God. If you pray doesn't work out, then obviously people say that you they blame you or it's just God's will.
So technically, there's just no real way of knowing if prayer works if no matter what happens, we are going to make an excuse. So it's a tough spot.
We'll get we'll get Patal in here one of these days, right?
Gosh. I mean, I would like I would love just to speak because it's it feels like you got a lot to say.
So, honestly, I think you should just join up. you you sound like you got a lot. I won't just let you sit here and preach, but I'm going to I'm going to ask you some questions.
Uh Pascal's wager, I feel like, yeah, that's kind of misleading and I think it only is technically speaking about the Christian God.
So, it's like it's worse than that because like what if you're just wrong about the guy you decide to just go with just to be safe, right?
And then I think uh Pascal actually was of the per or was of the mind to believe that you can't really choose what you believe. So it was more of just act as if you believe it in the hopes of you will end up just believing it and which I think can be true. If you pretend long enough, you possibly can trick your brain into believing something.
But to me, that's not the same thing as um just instantly choosing to believe Windows update. Going to wait on that.
You know what I meant to do is this.
waiting on you. Patal, get in here and show us. Show us what's up.
Show us. Why not?
Here's the new video for anyone that hasn't seen it yet.
We might be a little too early.
Depends on what time zone everybody's in. Too early or too late.
We got one person that said they'll come in, but unfortunately I don't know if we have a time frame.
He said he'll hop in soon. So, I'm going to give him some time.
He said he's a little busy at the moment, but did say he's going to hop in soon. So, if we can get a good little chat in, we got like um yesterday was like four hours, three or four hours.
Total of the stream was six hours and we had three people hop in.
So that was I mean that's pretty cool.
Pretty cool.
And then I did have one other one. Um forgot his name. Hold on. Do I have it here?
Yeah, Nahali Niha was saying he's going to come back and show me something, right? That's what I remember him saying.
See, man, we'll see.
I want to get rid of this top part on here.
I'm going to go over my little bears faces. I didn't realize that.
Over the little faces of the bears.
Let's do that. There we go.
Oh, he wanted me to share my YouTube channel. Sure thing, buddy.
Sure thing, buddy. All right. Um, I forgot people just randomly uh like come to the lives.
That'd be cool. Jesus calls in.
Be awesome.
I say we at least will have one. It's just whether we can sit here and wait long enough, you know, be fair. Hey, what's up? What's up?
You must be one of my uh Who's that? Who is that? I know who I don't know if I just don't know his name. I'm curious.
If you say never flame, never tilt, you're definitely uh you've known me for a while.
Uh no Twitch stream. Nope.
Or maybe you don't know me for a while.
I don't know.
I could just be assuming. But anybody that usually would say never flame number two knows me from my my old days.
Oh, it is my username.
That's hilarious.
Oh man, you're so right. That is my username. I forgot.
That's so funny.
I uh Yeah, it is my username. That's funny.
Okay.
Like what? What's your name on Twitch? I don't know that.
I didn't even notice that's my username.
That's hilarious.
It's pretty funny.
secret. I feel like I saw that name in the last one. I'm going to I want to I want to say somebody named Yo, but I don't know. It might be I'm just guessing at the moment.
I feel like somebody used that name said something yesterday as well.
I don't know. Could be.
Could be wrong.
Oh man, it's actually like a pretty boring day today for me.
Most people took the week off.
I was arguing with chat last stream.
Were you I tell you what, the um the stream was there was so much conversation going on with the people I was speaking to. I I almost didn't even notice the chat. It was really tough to uh I got to get used to that again.
Uh, I used to be obviously really used to like gaming and watching the chat, talking, watching the chat. Now, like that's a little tough.
Chat chat was fast.
Everybody was in here arguing with Patal.
Yeah. Yeah. That's why I want you to hop in here.
I mean, I guess at the beginning, to be fair, even if you kind of agree with me, you can kind of still hop in until we get somebody.
I mean, conversation might not be as interesting, I guess, but I might go grab me some more orange juice.
So, waiting on Kindred to hop in if they can.
Want to give them a shot. They say they might have some new stuff for me. I don't know.
Maybe maybe they got something that'll blow my mind.
arguing that the lack of evidence of God is not true.
Sure.
So, do you do you believe in God? Cuz hey, we need somebody to come chat. Send me a send me a invite. Hop in here.
Even though the the theme is you really don't believe in God, but I think even you saying that maybe you aren't 100% sure either, right? Which would still prove the theme of the or which would still be the title, right?
Going to sleep.
All good, man.
No worries at all.
Let me see if I can send some messages out. Get some uh get some folks in here.
I got I got some people. See if they not scared.
Share the link. Where do I get the link at?
Going to sleep. You either work all night or it's late for you.
Must be my bad. Uh this is with not the one share. Copy.
There it is.
Chat crashed.
I said uh I'm trying to gauge when to because yesterday I think we possibly like since everyone was just off we got kind of like lucky in a way of everybody that was available.
So uh yeah I mean but our instincts are wrong a lot.
And how do you have an instinct about something that you uh like there's no like take God out of it for a second. Like what supernatural things have you witnessed, right?
Like how do we how do you jump to that?
Right? Because I I can have an instinct that and whatever that means. By the way, I think we might be misusing that word a bit, but I can have like an intuition that, hey man, there's something in my closet. It feels like there's something in my closet. But you would teach your kids that there's not some ghost or monster in your closet, but your kid would tell you that they have some instinct or whatever word we want to use that there is something in the closet.
So, it's like why do we why do we teach our kids to not believe in those kind of things?
Like there's no monsters under the bed and all of that, right? So, it's just like why would we do that? And then when you grow up and get old, you're telling like we have adults that believe in some crazy stuff, man.
on a higher level you are also instinctively dismissing anything that that doesn't point to science.
um every your so how you live your life every day is technically science to me right you you do nothing like there like you you don't live in any way that's not scientific right that's how you function your heart beats scientific you think scientific you walk outside scientific like literally everything that you are doing right now is provable by science hands, right?
Like what what thing are you doing that's not that that science doesn't kind of have some explanation for it?
Like there's stuff we don't know, but the stuff that we do know is all scientific, right? I think you can agree with that if we're if we're going to be honest here.
Hey, where are we?
I guess I don't get the question. Why were you just not downloaded with those thoughts?
No, I am I am saying that there is no such thing as like you're like what are I guess give me an example. This is why you should hopped in by the way. I think I'll be able to understand you better on what you're trying to say.
Give me example of something you do that science can't describe in a way. I guess I'm trying to understand like what what you're saying when you say that like what what do you do that isn't scientific really?
Like there's bad science, by the way, but there's no way for you to interact.
There's no way for you to think. There's no way for you to conceptualize anything without using the science that is that is science, right? like you use your eyes, like you said, you had like a intuition, you're using your brain, like all of these things are scientific. Now, whether you take the next steps and do the whole scientific process, which is like actual evaluating and testing what your stuff is, like you have no choice but to live in science, right?
Yeah. That's the great thing. Science isn't always right. But my point is um that's the purpose of it, right? It's not Yeah. Like that is the that is the actual purpose of it. It is it trying to correct itself because that's what science is. That's what I meant by like there's no no one living that's not living in science, right? Like it's weird when you really think about it.
Like you get in your car, science. You you ride your bike, science. Like you walk around, science. You put on your clothes, science. Like every everything you do.
Even your emotions can be explained by science in a way.
like there's we can we're getting pretty good at it. It's not 100% sure, but I can see eventually just from the progress that we have made that we will be able to detect your feelings.
Like I can imagine one day people really not being able to lie. Like I think science would get to the point to where we would just know so much about how we work that you literally You would just know like there would be something that just knew you were lying.
Like really when I read a book about Mar about who Um, so are you saying when you read the Bible, you actually think the Bible knows what God is? Is that what you're saying? Make sure I'm clear on that. Also, anybody that wants to join, we don't have anybody that's calling in yet. I would love to talk to some of you guys. Most likely are are preferring a believer.
Um, so if you go to the description, you can see uh Discord. You send me a little friend invite on the Discord, I'll I'll jump you in like we're in a gang. I'll jump you in.
Uh, but give me give me a moment. Like I said, we are waiting on someone that said they would call in. So, I'm trying to give them a shot. And seems like we're starting to have a good discussion, by the way. So, I'm all cool with that as long as we're having some kind of discussion. I just don't want to sit here and bore the [ __ ] out of everybody. Uh, but give me a moment, guys. I'll be right back.
Oops.
I am muted. Back at it. Got my orange juice. Um, let's see. Let me catch up.
You can probably chat tomorrow. Cool.
Um, I think I I think I'll be on. We We'll see. Um, just send me a friend request and we'll link up.
It might be a little later tomorrow.
So, just a little heads up.
Peter. Well, hey, I don't I don't like I give everybody a shot. Okay. So, if Peter wants to hop in here and be a new Peter, then everybody else knows. I don't know. I don't know.
Peter, I will I will give people a shot.
Anybody can jump in here and have a conversation with me until you prove me you're prove to me you're an [ __ ] I give you a shot.
And even if even if you're like a little bit of an [ __ ] it might be okay. It just depends on what type of [ __ ] you are.
But I I can handle I handle jerks all day. So, uh I can handle jerks. So, it's like I said, it just depends on if you're a uh if you're an adult jerk because they're children like jerks that just cross lines or whatever. But if you're an adult and a jerk, I can probably handle you. But if you act like a child, that's a little different.
I saw somebody said meeting reading about God. I don't I don't think anyone is reading about God. Right? I'm not saying there is no God. I am saying that everything that's written down is is not true. It's not like it's not God. God would just come here.
There wouldn't need to be any writings.
The the fact that there are writings is kind of like it's I don't know. It's stupid. Let's just be real about that.
Why would God need anyone to write it down?
Like there is nothing there is nothing that could hold God back. At least that's what we assume. Maybe we're all wrong about God and God's limited by the way. But how I look at it is this.
If there is a being right, it can it seems to either not want to interact or it cannot interact. And if I'm playing this game of God, it would be something like like say like you have like uh like I don't know bugs and stuff on your skin or on your eyes like like you can't talk to these things. It doesn't matter what you do. Like they would never understand you, right? So I could never send a message to the little bugs that are in her eyelashes. I could never send a message and be like, "Hey guys, stop stop pooping in my eye, please."
Like, and it didn't it doesn't matter what I do. I know those things are there, by the way. Right? Everybody knows about that, I think. Is that still is that still scientific? I could be wrong. I thought I thought that's still true. I can never speak to these things and they just exist, right? They just exist. like that that is more the reality of what if there is some kind of God that is more of a reality to anything that it cannot speak to us at all which then for me it makes it silly for any of us to ever get punished right so it like it starts to defeat everything like if you have a if you have a detailed description of God you're probably wrong and because reality does not look like that.
I forgot what little bugs they are, but there's little bugs in your eyes and every morning, you know, the sleep or whatever they call it that you get, those are like it's like bugs, like little microscopic bugs and they they poop.
At least that's like this is what I I used to think or not think that's what they used to teach. I don't know if this is true anymore. Somebody look it up. By the way, like I I was pretty sure that's what they used to say.
And like I said, if I'm wrong, I'm wrong. This is showing my age a little bit. But I do remember a time where they were saying like, "No, there's these little bugs like" and it was science, right? It was scientific. I can look it up right now. Actually, I don't have to have anybody else look it up.
Um, let's see.
Yeah. And what pops up is as soon as I start typing, are there microscopic bugs on your eyelashes?
That's funny.
Nearly all humans have microscopic eightlegged.
These tiny bugs are entirely normal in our standard part of the body. Okay.
God spoke to Samuel in person. He spoke to Paul and to many others.
The problem is, does he speak to people today? Well, sure. Those are the stories that were told by ancient people. But guess what? A lot of ancient people told other stories. What about Zeus? What?
Right. You know what I mean? What about Hercules? Right. What What about all these other myths and gods?
And they don't show up anymore either, by the way. That's that's the clue. None of these ancient gods show up anymore.
They stop showing up, but they used to show up all the time.
Something to think about.
showed up all they showed up all the time. Like uh I have a video on that where it was just like where I was saying that the ancient world was like Harry Potter. There was there was miraculous [ __ ] happening all the time.
Like literally miracles every freaking day it seems like because that's what everybody was writing about. Man, do I really think that was going on? No.
But it was like the the times that they lived in, there was like there's just magic [ __ ] everywhere.
And now all of a sudden it's gone, right? When I can record it and send it to the future, right? Like I have it for the future and be like, "No, we had real magic back in 2026.
There's there's nothing, right?
We we barely got some uh grainy alien videos, man.
It was Harry Potter and Lord of the Rings, right?
Crazy.
And if you really think about it, man, just to be fair to these people, because I'm not even judging the ancient people.
They lived in their time.
If you It's like right now there's stuff that we have no clue what it is. So in those things I see how people get superstitious.
So cuz it's just something that we will know in the future that we don't know right now and it's it's the spooky to us, right?
So that's that's the spooky part.
But in the future we'll laugh at ourselves. And it's the same thing like just think about all the stuff you believed when you were a child, man.
Like before you understood, the stuff that you understand now. Uh if you're a little bit older, just think about the stuff that you used to think was true that even the whole world thought was true that now we have found out. It's just silly as hell. Like really look at those things. take away your emotions to the stuff that you believe or didn't believe and start looking at what usually happens.
Like usually if there is no proof behind it, you're you're most likely just wrong in a way. Um doesn't necessarily mean that's 100% true, but if if it's not tying to reality at all, you're you might be wrong. It's okay.
It's okay, man. I think people get their feelings hurt too fast and they just anchor themselves into their beliefs instead of calming down, having some emotional intelligence and moving on.
Maybe you'll maybe it'll be proven later or whatever the case is. Can anyone heal a leper? Give sight to the blind, speak another language without uh ever learning it, resurrect the dead, walk on water or water and turn water into wine.
Yeah.
Uh, I forgot who I was talking to yesterday, but the conversation was about like how did Jesus feed the the 5000 with just like two loaves and a fish, right? Like did the fish just continue to grow and like you would cut the fish, feed somebody, and it just didn't cut? Like what what was that like? Like what would it what would it be? Like what would that be? It's like kind of insane when you think about it.
I think it's interesting.
Yeah. I don't know if you looked up those microscopic bugs that are all over us. Yeah, that would be what we are, right? If there's some being, right? If there's a god, it I am more likely to say that is more likely true that it cannot speak to us. It doesn't even really know we exist.
Like that's more likely of a scenario.
Even though I'm saying I'm not saying that's true, by the way. I'm just saying that that is more likely of a scenario than what you read in the Bible.
Because if you believe in the Bible, there is literally zero reasons why God is not showing up anymore. Zero. It doesn't say anywhere in the Bible that God's going to stop showing up. Even at the end, right, it talks about God still being around and being very active. It says the end is nay nay n whatever, right? Like, so even the book itself tells you that these things are supposed to be continuously going on, right? And even the people that think they're the even the people that think that they're like are super religious, like I look at the pope, right? I don't even think the pope really believes in God. Like he has no powers. Like like if you're the pope, you should you should have like more power than anyone in a way. Like, and when I say power, I mean I don't even know how to word it. I I just want to say magic, right? If you're the pope, should you not be able to just heal people like you were told uh you would be able to do?
Like you would be doing these things in my name? Like, isn't that one of Jesus's statements? Like, and what can the Pope do?
Why isn't the Pope just running around just healing people? Like, why isn't that going on? Why aren't any of these priests and stuff just going around truly healing people, by the way, for free?
Why Why aren't those things going on?
Why do we not see those things going on?
Oh, because it's probably [ __ ] right? Let's let's just be real on that, man.
I kind of get heated on that kind of stuff because uh how many horrible things that are going on uh to people and then especially vulnerable people that can't do anything for themselves like children and not just talking about children. I'm talking about disabled children uh elderly like all the horrible things going on all the pain and suffering. Yet, we're supposed to have these group of people that have special powers to be able to help people and no one's doing that.
Pop's too busy coming up. Yeah. I mean, sadly that's true.
That kind, like I said, that stuff kind of irks me, man.
These things should be going on. All right, looks like we might have our kindred in the house.
Put on my headset.
Uh prayer to me is you speaking to yourself. I think uh there was a recent study uh about them studying people praying praying and the same things light up in your brain that light up when you are um having conversation with yourself. So you can pray to God and the same part of your brain lights up that if you were just talking to yourself. So pretty cool.
All right, we got somebody ready to join. Here we go. Put on my headset.
Mess up my hair.
Yo yo, >> what up, bro?
How about for you, bro?
>> I'm doing all right, man.
We You had the You have the whole chat waiting on you, man. We've been trying to We've been trying to get somebody in.
Everybody too scared. So, you're the >> Oh, for real?
>> Yeah. Yeah. You're the one that's ready.
>> Uh, I'm honored. I guess the chosen one type.
>> Yeah. I was uh I was messing with you about the Kindred name.
>> Ah yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> What were you saying? I was >> I I was like we we got Kindred in the house. I'm just going to call you Kindred because just because I'm I'm an old school league player. I suck by the way at league. By the way, I'm not going to act like I'm >> I maxed out at uh at plat. Plat. That's it.
>> I feel that.
All right, man. What you What you got for me today, man? You got some You got some new stuff. Are you ready to admit that uh I was telling the truth? What you got?
>> You ready to You ready to turn back to Christ, bro? Like, you know that kind of But no, I kid. I kid.
>> Oh, but um kidding. Not kidding. Reference to >> No, no. I I know. I know you're kidding.
Not kidding. I get it.
And and here's my thing on that, by the way. Um, >> if you believe in this at all, I do think you would have to go preach it to people. So, I I do want to be clear on that on how I believe that would be true. Uh, and if you're not, it it's kind of against the whole religion because it's the most important thing.
So, do I do I agree with you that is true? No. But I agree with that you should be teaching or trying to show people the truth >> that you believe. So >> uh >> where do we end off yesterday? What did what do we >> um where did we end off yesterday? Um bro, we we discussed a lot. Uh >> oh, you can't hear him. One second. Let me turn it up.
All right, go ahead. Where did we leave off yesterday? Um, I know we were talking about uh a few of the topics we were talking about is like I know we talked about hell. Uh, we talked about um just God's omniscience and divine hiddenness. Mhm.
>> Um, >> oh, here's here's something I have because I was I was just having you kind of rattle so I can think of something.
So, >> uh, go ahead.
>> My recent video has Carl Sean.
>> Uh, we can hear he's just Oh. Oh, so they say your audio is a little little off. Are you in a different spot today?
>> Oh, no. No. I guess I'm not I guess I'm just not close enough to Hold on. Is that better?
Uh, I see your volume going pretty high, but maybe it just like Are you on speaker?
>> No. Um, hold on. I don't know. Uh, let me see about the voice and video settings.
Oh, I see. I see.
>> Is this better?
>> Yo, yeah, that was that was it right there. Whatever you just >> Okay, so yeah, I'm in my I'm in my studio. I make music and I was recording earlier today. Um, >> yeah, you're good now. That has to be good >> cuz you you just hit a boom. Boom. All right. Um, okay. So, the video that I was working on or I did yesterday has Carl Sean. And one of his questions was it was it was why did God or why didn't God just do it right the first time? Why does God uh why does a God have to meddle in its creation?
Should that not point to it not being perfect?
And that and this tags and ties in a little bit of what we talked about yesterday, I believe. Uh >> yeah, with the bike maker.
>> Yeah. About Yeah.
>> Um >> like why like why why would a guy have to keep tweakering or tinkering? Right.
There you go.
>> Yeah.
So, um I think my argument um to flesh it out a little bit, have you, um since our discussion, have you looked into like um different ethical frameworks or No.
>> Uh so you have you have like the um uh like if you go like the secular route where it's just uh like the humanist type of thing. Is that where we're kind of going?
>> No. No. like what I was talking about yesterday with virtue, ethics, and utilitarianism and >> Oh, no, no, no. Let's let's do that then because that is something we were talking about. Hopefully, it still ties into what I just was saying.
>> It does. It does. Okay. Um because if God uh it matters the goal of what creation was intended to do to do and be for is why it ended up in the uh in an imperfect state in the first place. So um or why it it is imperfect in that way. Um so just to lay the grounds uh uh do you remember what utilitarian uh means and virtue >> the utilitarian was the um uh go ahead and say it again it's okay >> okay all right so basic ethics lesson I would I would highly encourage you because it'll help you to identify like what ethical framework that you kind of align with when it comes to your decision-m and like >> oh yeah it's it's the utility of like uh it right >> close >> like so it's like u >> if my goal is to uh cause the least amount of suffering something like that >> um different so it's a little bit different >> keep going that's cool that's no worries >> yeah utilitarianism in short terms is the greatest amount of good for the greatest amount of people and it takes um the results in first and it does it disregards the means So the opposite of that would be what we call contianism which has the uh the intention the why overrides the means to do something. So that's what uh is valued most in that e in that ethical framework. So in utilitarian it doesn't matter the end it doesn't matter how you achieve the end goal. It just matters that you get to the end goal.
>> Yeah. I don't like the sound of that.
Yeah, exactly. And so that that's and that's what I would say that is >> uh kind of might might have been what you were arguing yesterday with uh in in that kind of vein. Um and that's not what God operates in. Um >> are we sure? Because that's what it seems like.
>> Yeah. So I would say that God operates in a virtue ethics.
So it's >> virtue ethics. All right.
>> Yeah. So that's uh virtue ethics also called feminist care if you want to look into it as well. So virtue ethics uh and is what I was talking about earlier with the meaning making is what is the most important.
>> Oh character and uh deposition dispos disposition can't talk over specific rules and consequence.
>> Yeah. What is going to make uh what is going to make the most the maximally good uh the maximum amount of good essentially um characteristically um virtually. So >> sure >> right now this works for me when we are speaking and like I said I always go back to this because I think it's the most important thing for anyone to realize.
uh this works in a uh in a universe where everything is fallible.
If we have if we have one thing that is not fallible and it creates everything, none of this matters anymore because it can create uh whatever it it it can create the goal that it needs or wants. Right?
So, if I'm building a society, I'm kind of with you that a lot of these things we would have to come into play and we would all bring them to the table to try to create just the best society that we could. But it would only be because we would all agree that none of us are perfect.
So, that's why we would need any of these structures because we're not perfect. The problem is once you're perfect and you can just create worlds and universes, you no longer need any of these things. Uh before you hopped on, I was actually given a scenario where there can still be free will, but the only people that are in existence are people that God already knew were going to choose the correct path. because I know a lot of the uh issues is free will and could God have not created that place?
>> If I can challenge you on that >> um what meaning does good have then?
>> It would still be good, right?
>> How uh but it will it be maximally good?
>> Uh if God is perfect, God could create the scenario where it's maximally perfect.
Like I'm I'm taking my I'm taking my human brain out of it and saying like if I literally can do anything within reason. Like I'm not one of those people that say God can do something illogical.
>> Uh if I if I can do it within reason then yes I would know how to solve the problem that I caused in the first place.
>> Okay. So, and that's um kind of where I would disagree a bit. Um >> I'm sure I'm I'm sure you disagree with a lot of it.
>> Yeah. Yeah. Um but I think that uh snap, I'm sorry, I got I got a phone call that kind of >> diverted my attention. Um but when it comes to uh God we have to understand that though he is omnipotent and all knowing just to assume >> all powerful too right >> yeah all powerful as well um >> uh we have to understand that God is omnipotent in the sense that he can do any like you said he's not going to do anything illogical. But also God is uh like just like everything in nature is bound to its nature, God is um is bound to be good by his nature.
>> Yeah. Okay. Let's like good is just subjective, right?
>> Um I would disagree. Okay. Let's let's define our terms. I think that okay so defining our terms I believe that good is purely existence.
>> Well then I feel like we would just be kind of just making up our own definitions and >> Okay. So why would um >> because I think when you say God is good, you I don't and I hope I don't I don't think you I would actually put money you don't think that uh God existing means good, right?
>> No, that's not what I mean. But >> so then existence can't be good, right?
>> Say that one more time.
>> Then existence can't just be good.
>> Okay.
>> What are you saying when you say that phrase? Let me ask that. like existence is what does that mean?
>> So I would say that the the fact of a a thing existing is is goodness.
>> Okay. What is goodness?
>> God is pure.
>> Yeah. God is pure uh God being pure existence.
He is that good that that sustains everything in existence.
Therefore, ex uh good in this sense is that it exists. Anything that is going to um be a privation of that existence is therefore evil.
>> Okay. So, let me try to humanize this for myself. Um, the fact that my heart keeps me alive.
You're saying since my heart exists, that's goodness.
I would say no. No. Um, so I would say life in itself is is good.
>> There is no scenario you can think of that life is not good.
I would say if it if it experiences privation then it becomes less of a good >> privation meaning >> like >> self self go ahead just quick >> privation or a perversion it's like something that um alterist it like kind of like um kind of like states of entropy.
>> Okay.
>> Are you are you familiar?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. Kind of like that. uh that's whenever it becomes a state of less good or or or even evil is whenever it is departed from that good. So >> oh because good is existence.
>> Yes.
>> So anything that is taking us away from existence like entropy would be what we call bad.
>> What would we be what we call evil?
>> Evil. Okay.
>> I think bad is a little bit weird. Uh, I mean, I think of course it sounds a little bit weird. I just even though like I if I can if I disagree on how those would have meant in other phrases or in other conversations, as long as I know what you mean by it, >> I think we could still work with it. Uh because I still think even how you are presenting it that it still would be subjective because I could think not I could think entropy is a good thing, right? Because I could think of reasons of why things living forever would be bad.
Like like even if I critique God, maybe that's why God's a jerk, God like like living living forever does not sound that awesome to me, right? So I could just imagine like maybe that's why God gets so damn mad all the time in the book. Like God can't die. God can't not be.
So it's like maybe that's not the good thing living forever, man.
>> Okay. So, uh I guess the question then would be uh why do you believe that living forever uh wouldn't be something that is that is good? And um yeah, why why don't you believe that living forever wouldn't be something that's good? You ever ate the same food all every day for a long time?
>> Uh, yeah.
>> Have you have Have you ever had to do that? It sucks.
>> I agree. But that also um goes into what we call the marginal propensity of change.
And >> we're saying for forever though, right?
Eventually there is no change.
Um, >> like if you live forever, you're going like that. Like there's not there's not infinite things you can do.
>> Oh, I Why do you say that? If if we believe in an infinite God, then why wouldn't there be infinite things we can do? I think God proves there's not infinite things to do, which is why God would create a small place like this like and and make it and make it so specifically bad. By the way, >> like going back to like trying to tie us back to our original conversation about why would God need to keep meddling in things that God created. Um, and I think that would tie into what I was just saying here that like eventually like all options are off the table. So God gets just like bored like and creates us and boredom is a bad thing. A lot of times you make bad choices when you're bored. And if I put God and if I put God into that, God got bored with, if we're just going to go off the Bible, God got bored with the Holy Spirit and Jesus and decided to make people. That's like we're like, let's just if I pretend with you, man, we're horrible as far as if if God's real, we're horrible.
>> Like it was it's it must have been the worst creation possible. And the Bible also says God wishes he did not create man.
like it's it doesn't make any sense.
>> Okay. So what I would say to that is if we have a God who is infinite in in love and mercy then by virtue of that uh not in love not just love and mercy but love and knowledge and mercy and all these things then by virtue of that he literally can't run out of things to be loving about or run out of things to be like run out of things to be loving to run out of things to be, you know, thinking about.
It's It's not going to be something that grows stagnant.
>> You think so? Why then? Why um is God not all loving to things? Then >> I would um >> like why does God care? Why does God care if somebody murders somebody?
That's why I say um virtue ethically God.
>> Yes. But there was no such thing as murder before, right?
>> But there was such thing as good before.
And now murder is a privation of that which is good. If you're taking away a life for your own personal reasons, murder is defining murder is like uh by what I mean by murder is you intentionally think out to kill somebody and intend to take away somebody's life.
Yeah, >> that is a privation of that is a privation of life which is good. Therefore, >> I said that for a reason, man. I said that for a reason because now you're you're probably going to tell me God doesn't murder people, >> but God murders people.
>> Okay.
>> Like God God murdered more people than anyone ever.
>> Okay. So, >> no, >> I there is there is an argument for it, but I really don't like the argument at all.
>> I mean, we don't have to argue against it. You can just say, hey, you're right.
>> Like, now now we can we can go into like, hey, God has a right to do that, or whatever the case is. But the fact of the matter is God killed way more people than the devil ever did.
And God God ordered it.
>> God did it.
>> So um Okay. So is there such thing uh well okay yeah I I agree that God did take take away lives in um >> You don't want to use murder, huh?
You don't want to say the word murder.
Why not? That's that makes me laugh, man. Why don't you want to say the word murder? God murdered people.
>> I'd say because >> what is the definition of murder that you gave me?
I'd say to have uh murder would be the intentional um and uh like I said it's a it's a self motivated murder of another I mean not murder but uh self mur selfotivated killing of another human of a human being >> right and god murders a lot of human beings I want to stick to this for a minute because I I I want you to recognize it.
I really want you to recognize that God murdered a lot of people, man.
>> Sure. Let's Let's go with that.
>> Okay. And that that does not make you feel any type of way.
>> I'd say it makes me feel It does make me feel sad. It makes me feel >> Does it make you want to? And then all of us, what's the next step when you feel that? Do you want to make an excuse?
>> No. But I I don't think I want to make an excuse. I want to know why though.
>> Yeah, but murder is just bad. Period.
>> Like why why do you like like we it's just bad. Do you think that there's any do you think that there's any case where it is ethical to kill someone?
>> Killing is different than murder.
>> Okay. So, I would say that God kills instead of murders.
>> Yeah. But as soon as but Well, as soon as it's like on there's no The only way you can kill somebody and then not be murder to me is self-defense or accident, right? Okay. I'll give an accident. Really? Sorry.
>> Yeah. So, you don't So, you don't believe anything? You don't believe in what's called a mercy kill at all?
>> Oh, wait. What? What did I Did I say something wrong? I'm sorry. I'm saying the only way only way it's not murder is if it's self-defense, right? That's That's what I said. Does that still make you say the same thing?
>> No, I was I was I was asking, do you not believe in mercy kills?
Oh, I I do believe if you don't want to be here, you have a right to not be here. Yes.
>> Or um >> like even if like assistant uh what do they call it?
>> Suicide.
>> Yeah.
>> Oh, sorry. Sorry. Sorry. That's that's YouTube bad.
>> I don't know. Yeah. I don't know if YouTube allows I don't know what YouTube allows. Um I know I know Tik Tok's worse.
>> Yeah.
>> But yeah, >> selfite slew suicide.
Um, >> yeah, >> self deletion, I guess.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Um, >> so what's what's your point to that part? Go ahead.
>> I would say or how about uh how about in war? Do you believe that is murder? Do you believe that's murder?
>> It can be, right? But the problem is with our but the problem with our wars right now is a lot of people just go in the belief that their government is telling them the truth and and in turn they think it's self-defense.
>> Right? So that's what sucks about war is that they put you in a place that you will defend yourself. like two groups are just there and if somebody starts shooting at you, bro, you're going to shoot back.
So, it it does turn into a a self-fulfilled just self-defense scenario caused by people in charge that would never go fight themselves. By the way, I just want to lay that out there.
Um >> nowadays, at least back in the days, kings used to ride with their with their armies.
>> Yeah, that's true. Um, even in Yeah, they would they would go ride with their lie. Let me just say it that way.
>> But back to back to what we were saying there. I think we're getting a little off. Um, I I think it's very important to realize that as soon as we can say that that God murders, that should start a uh adding some more questions to our next parts of the conversation. And that's kind of where where I wanted to see where you would go with that or and you didn't do it. By the way, I just want to be clear. You didn't do what I usually hear, which is start automatically defending it.
But I I I think we should kind of unravel that a bit, man. God just murders people. God gets angry and just kills people, >> which is murder, right? Because you're doing it just out of pure anger. It's not self-defense. No one can hurt God.
God uh like somebody said in chat here like God murders children.
That's definitely not self-defense.
>> That's interesting. Um I think that um the Bible kind of makes it interesting because uh we see in the New Testament that you can grieve the Holy Spirit which is also God. And we also see um that sin has a principle of injury in uh in the entire Bible as well.
>> Say that last part again. Principle of injury, right?
>> Yeah.
>> Expand for me. Yeah.
>> Okay. So, um All right. So I'd say that um though a god lacks nothing, he is still he is still he can still be grieved in heart.
And if we have >> God has emotions. I give you that. God obviously has emotions, >> right? So if we have if we in our if God is all loving and we in our disobedience commit a sin that is against uh that love that infinitely grieves the heart of God and creates separation infinitely in between us in that way >> which should instantly though be counteracted by the love.
>> Why do you say that? Because all loving is something that I don't even think anyone can comprehend. All loving literally means forgiveness for everything.
>> Why do you wait? Uh it it it leads to the possibility of forgiveness for everything.
>> Okay, I I I'll use that. I I I'm okay with that.
And now we like I know a lot of people like to just talk about certain parts of God, but I like to put all of it together because I I agree with your statement right there, possibilities, right? But then we add the all power again. And then we add the all knowing again. Which means if you're all loving, all powerful, all all knowing. The allloving is now like, I already knew you were going to do that. And I'm all powerful, too, and I still allowed you to do that. You know what? It's my fault, bro.
Like literally in in this scenario, everything is God's fault.
Like I would take the responsibility as a father to my children if I just literally could have stopped them from doing something and still allowed them to do it.
>> But >> I would be like, "Hey son, I'm sorry man." And he would probably I don't know, whatever. He would hate me. He's like, "Dad, you could have stopped me from doing this >> and you just let me do it."
And remember, I can stop him from doing it, right? Like that's that's the key here. Like I literally can. And I tell him like, "Hey, I just didn't do it."
>> But I I I literally could have stopped you and I didn't do it. Now that is my fault for him. And if he went and hurt other people, that is also my fault.
It's just like if I knew my son was going to go do something horrible. I don't have to say what it is because we know how that [ __ ] works nowadays. Like if I knew if I knew my son was going to go do something and I did not stop my son, I should go to prison with my damn son.
Like I I could have stopped him. And I'm saying in the scenario that I literally could have stopped him.
God does not do that. And that's a bad parent. That's a bad parent. I need I need you to just say that with me.
I was >> That's a bad That's a bad parent, man.
>> I completely disagree.
>> I know. Go ahead.
>> But um and the reason I would say such is because um we know uh part of the reason why you also would say that um Sorry, got a text.
>> Yep. All good.
Dang. Um, but I think part of the reason you and I would say that um we would deserve that that same kind of uh kind of punishment is um partially because we know that well or even the reason why we'd be trying to stop our son from doing something. Um because we have the kind of morals and hopefully you know we both some of us some people don't have the morals.
>> I'm talking about just you and me.
>> Okay. Okay. Right.
>> Yeah. Hopefully we have the morals to teach to raise up our sons in a correct way in a correct manner and how to act like respectable citizens in society.
Oh, I brought it up for a I brought up for that exact reason though, right?
>> Uh I'm gonna let you finish, but I just want to so you don't go off and I want you to be I want to be fair to you because uh what I meant was I was saying that >> yes, we know all of those things and the the even if I teach him everything that I feel is right, he can still deviate, right? And this kind of is the metaphor for God. God created us and God and we can deviate, right?
>> Yes. Okay. Yes, we can.
>> So, but my point is here.
>> That's funny. My my point is my point is here though the problem is that >> God knows we can deviate. God can stop us even if we deviate, right?
>> God God can literally allow me to go up to the point and then not do it.
Right? Like I could literally be like, "Hey, I'm not I'm not too sure if my son's going to do it." But as soon as I see him start walking out of the house with some bag that he's never had before, or as soon as I start seeing him doing some [ __ ] that he's never doing before, I need to start watching him, right? Like it is my responsibility. And then imagine in this scenario, I'm God, right? So I have cameras.
>> All I got cameras. I'm watching him no matter what. When he's in his room, I'm seeing him. When he goes in his car, I'm seeing him. If I do not stop him from doing whatever the hell he is going to do, adding all of those things together, I am maybe worse than my son.
Okay.
So to that I would say um God in his um in his virtue uh because he has to I mean because he's has these different aspects to his nature these Omni properties.
So God is going to do what he can without violating uh violating the autonomy of a person.
That's not true though.
That's why I brought up the part of um God will murder you.
Jonah is another example. God did not let Jonah do what he wanted.
>> Jonah didn't want to do it. God said, "Fuck you.
>> Jonah still could have Jonah still definitely could have denied all >> He put him in a whale, bro."
>> Yeah, >> that's not a That's That would scare the [ __ ] out of anybody, dog. Come on, man.
>> Okay. Yeah. It uh and for for all uh transparency, I believe that u >> that's a metaphor.
>> There's a lot of evidence. Huh?
>> You think that's a metaphor?
>> No. Not a metaphor. It's not a metaphor, but I I don't believe that um Jonah was a um historical figure. No.
>> Oh, I mean that's fair. That's fair. I maybe I shouldn't use the word metaphor, but I forgot what it's called when they're doing like uh it's kind of like um the Garden of Eden. There's a phrase for >> allegory parable type >> allegory type of thing. Yeah. I think there's a better word for it, but it's okay. Same thing.
>> Gotcha.
>> Um Okay.
>> But yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Uh so then we can look at other scenarios uh where God does not care about uh autonomy of anyone. It's just what I want.
>> I think we can stay at that example if you would like.
>> I mean I like Job. Do you believe Job?
No, I also don't believe in Job. I believe Job was a I believe Job was an allegorical book as well.
>> All right. Well, then it doesn't matter which one we stick with then. So, go ahead.
>> I mean, yeah, I was about to say at the end of the day, they still had the autonomy to to do what they wanted. You even see Jonah be being wroth even after he um even after he preached he uh he literally said God I I if I can't see these people burn I want to die and he could and we see that that was not an attitude that was generated from um generated from him preaching. He had this entire hate in him from the moment that he uh set out to Tarses, which is the place opposite of Nineveh.
Um he could have carried that. He could have said he's he's he had the autonomy to say, "God, I don't want to do this."
Or to say, "Bump these people of Nineveh. I'm going the opposite direction still."
>> Okay. But >> but we're skipping over the fact that God >> did it.
>> No, but God still put a gun to his head and said, "Do it or else." That's not a choice to me. I want to be clear on that.
>> Uh >> he didn't say do it or else.
>> I mean, he put him in a whale.
>> Yeah. And >> that's that's a gun to the head >> in the Okay. Like like this should be real. Like not I would say most people that have a gun to their head will do whatever the person says.
That is not a choice any longer.
>> I would also still I'd still disagree with that.
>> Yeah. That's that's what's scary to me when it comes to some of these things because um I have children and I could see scenarios where they literally don't think they have a choice because they don't have a choice if another adults in the room.
That's that's not a choice. And I don't do victim blaming. So like oh you're talking about that. Okay. I think that that that bears a whole other level of of culpability when it comes to when it comes to those instances.
>> Well, then we're talking about we're talking about God, which would be the ultimate threat for anyone.
>> All right. So I think the difference in the instance that you just brought up in the instance of Jonah is where is their ability to comprehend and understand those complex types of things cuz they won't be able to even process those types of things until they're until they're literally physically me and mentally.
>> No, no, no. Well, the point I'm making is it's just something they don't want to do. But yeah, >> like they just they just don't want to do it. A choice to me would be literally I don't do it if I don't want to.
>> If you put if you put a gun to my head and and like let's not even make it graphic. If you put a gun to my head and you're like, "Give me your wallet. I don't want to give you my wallet, bro."
>> But you want to live, therefore you give the wallet.
>> So I don't have a choice.
The choice, the choice would be the choice would be like, "Hey, here's here would be the choices, right? Let's just say this scenario. The the robber comes to me, puts the gun to my head, he's like, "Hey, I give you choices. Here are the there would need to be three in this scenario." Like, "Hey, or maybe it's four." All right. Hey, I shoot you. Hey, I you give me your wallet. Hey, I take the gun away from your head. Hey, I I I just three. That's fine. We'll do the three. Those are choices. I get to I actually have the options that I the option that I want, which is for him to leave me the hell alone and not take my wallet.
That is a choice. That is a real choice.
If he only gives me two, like, "Hey, I'm going to shoot you. Are you giving me my wallet?" That's no longer a choice.
Like, I I I really don't think you think that's a choice.
>> Also, okay, so I think that Okay. I think Jonah still had a choice in not only walking into the city but also preaching in the city. He could have just lived in the city or he could have >> as soon as he as soon as God put him in a well he did he's no longer having a choice. That would scare him so much like that would scare him so much that he would just do it.
He would do like whatever God said, even if it's angry, by the way. Like, I would give the guy my wallet and I would cuss his ass out.
Like, so it's not like I would just like go ahead and be happy because I'm doing what God wanted. I would be mad at God, too. Like, [ __ ] you, man. You just put me in a whale. Of course, I'm going to go do it.
But I would still be mad. Like so so so saying him being upset while he was doing it still negates the point because me and you right now we don't have to say these things but there are scenarios where people are forced to do things they don't want to do and they do it while being upset. That does not mean anything. It is it just doesn't mean anything.
And and if you have if you had a daughter or for the scenario that I'm talking about, >> you would go kill that person that did something to them or or son. And we always talk about daughters in those ways, but >> little little boys are getting hurt, too.
>> So, >> like you would you would go do something because what if a guy came up to you and it's not always a guy either, by the way. I'm such sexist sometimes, I guess.
Um you're fine.
>> If if if the person came to you and was like, "Bro, why you mad? I gave them a choice. Are you Come on. What are you going to do? Slap them then slap him in the damn face.
>> Okay. So, I think the difference here goes um All right. So I think when it comes to the culpability, it's what I I would first and foremost I I would never blame a victim of of any sort of travesty in that in that vein.
Um >> Oh yeah, I don't I wasn't saying that by the way.
>> Yeah. So uh and appreciate that. Uh but uh you have if if Jonah truly understood the gravity of which he um of which he was trying he was tasked to preach with then he would have gone already gone to Nineveh and did that. But we see that Jonah was already a preacher and he understood the weight of uh of that relationship with God.
And uh we we see it in uh in the first chapters of Jonah that he preached he was a prophet and he just did not want to go to other people because of his own prejudice.
That is active.
>> Selfish, right? Selfish.
>> Yeah. But that's that's selfish. But not only that, it's um it's negating like the responsibility that you have been tasked with and you've already accepted, right?
>> Yes. But you still should have an option to not and like I said, I'm a person that thinks I think >> billionaires should be helping people, but they also should not have a gun to their head, >> right? They should free Well, you kind of cut out there a little bit. You still there?
>> Yeah, I'm still here.
>> Oh, okay. Yeah, you hit a you hit a really high pitch and it went away.
>> Oh, sorry.
>> So, yeah, repeat what you said there.
You're good.
>> But yeah, it they they have a responsibility to freely choose it, right? Or they not necessarily responsibility, but it'd be beneficial.
It'd be for the greater good if they freely chose it.
>> Yeah. Right.
>> Sure. Yeah. But I don't think anyone should walk up to them and put a gun to their head.
>> Does that make sense?
>> Even Even though I think that is the best >> that is the best scenario, I do not think that is the right thing to do.
>> You do not you do not you do not become the evil that you're trying to to conquer.
>> And I completely agree with that. But >> well, I'm saying that for a reason, but I'm going to let you finish. Go ahead.
>> And I know we see this in the movies a lot. Oh, we see this in the movies a lot and things like where that moment where the rich um you know, rude jerkish uh billionaire, they get taken and or kidnapped and they get shown an orphanage or something. They get shown the plight of whether through circumstance or through another the agency of another person. They get taken to see the travesty of poverty and that ends up changing their hearts.
>> Okay.
>> By that same vein, >> uh by that same vein, that is what God was attempting to do with Jonah.
It wasn't necessarily that it was do this or else, but he wanted God wanted him to see the plight of the people that he was actively rejecting and actively prejudiced against to get them to see the to get him to see the state of that and help those people.
>> Yes. I I mean I I get your point, right?
But what does that have to do with you're talking about Jonah more than God?
>> Uh no, I'm talking about God. It's his virtue making properties. He wants Jonah to choose to help those people.
>> But is it right to force somebody to choose?
>> He didn't want what you want.
>> Remember though, we already just said the gun to the head is forced. I thought we agreed on this.
He didn't force him to choose.
He just he just led him to where he was supposed to be.
>> Leading somebody by putting a gun to their head is not >> kind.
>> I don't think it I don't I don't think it's putting uh again I don't think it's putting a gun to his head. If if Jonah if he if God really wanted to put a gun to gun to his head and >> Oh, he would put him in a whale. He would put him in a whale. So, so in the story of Jonah, it's um traditionally it's um whatchamacallit, I'm not sure if this will necessarily go through, but um traditionally in the story of Jonah, whenever he was swallowed by the fish, he died like out cold.
If that was really God's mo.
>> Wait, no, no, no. He was He was alive in the fish. It says it.
>> No. He was He was in shale.
>> Hold on. No, no, no, no, no.
>> Yeah.
>> Jonah was in there for how many days?
>> Three days. Three nights. Just like how Jesus was. That's why Jesus said, >> "Don't you do no pro pro That's not a prophecy, man. Don't do that."
>> No, no, no, no. I'm saying no. That's why that's why Jesus says just like Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the fish, I will be in the heart of the earth three days and three nights. I'm not saying that's like uh that's a prophecy per se, but that's the reason why Jesus made that illusion.
>> Okay, here it is. So, he was alive because it says after three days and three nights in the fish's belly, Jonah prays for forgiveness and then the fish vomits him out.
You can pray.
>> You can pray in shale.
>> Oh, I forgot you did say you believe that. Okay. Yeah, you did say that. Uh yeah, you did say that. I don't see him saying that he was in shale, though.
You have a verse on that?
Or are are you saying that is your interpretation?
And >> I'd say that's >> I'm not I might not I might not give that to you, but I'm not going to have you look for a verse that doesn't exist.
>> I got you.
>> And I'm I'm okay with you're like, "No, that doesn't exist."
>> All right. So, he says in Jonah 2 1-2, it says, "Then Jonah prayed to the Lord from the belly of the fish, saying, I called out to the Lord out of my distress, and he answered me out of the belly of shale." Notice he doesn't say out of the belly of a whale. He says, "Out of the belly of shale."
>> Okay, >> belly of shale.
>> That's what it says.
>> I cried and you heard my voice.
>> Sh. All right. That's what it says.
>> So Jonah, >> but but do do you see how this still is a gun to the head, right?
>> No. Okay. So if it was truly a gun to the head, >> I mean, he's in a place he doesn't want to be, right?
Do you think that God would have sent him to Nineveh?
>> Wait, wait. Why do you say that? Why not?
>> Because if it was a obey me or else you die, then he would have stayed dead.
>> Uh, no. Because remember, God knows uh God knows what needed to be done to make him go. God knew he was going to go.
God also knew he needed to put him in the well.
Right.
>> Hold on.
>> Yep.
>> So what what m what makes you Okay.
Okay. So what does that have to do with him?
>> So I am I am saying it from the perspective like you got to look at it from two perspectives and then erase the other person as you're looking through the other person's perspective. So yeah, when I look at it through God's perspective, I am saying God didn't know all of these things, which makes it worse by the way. But okay, God God knew everything that was going to happen.
Jonah knows nothing.
So he is scared to [ __ ] right? And this is like I said, this is like being in that room with somebody and having to listen to them because you literally don't know what can happen. So the person can just be like, "Hey, I'm not going to hurt you." So what do you do?
You kind of get docile and you listen to them because all you can go off of is what you know. So Jonah doesn't know anything.
He doesn't know he's going to get in a whale. Like he doesn't know these things.
>> But what Okay, go ahead.
>> Go ahead. No, no, you go. You might if you know where I'm going and I don't mind you interrupting.
>> Yeah. So what does Jonah know?
Uh, in this scenario, it seems like Jonah does know God and that's all he knows.
>> He also knows his responsibility.
He also knows >> he knows God wants him to go.
>> He knows that God wants him to go.
He knows that he's prejudiced against the people that he is tasked to go preach to as well.
So I think that those things also need to be taken into account when we think about uh just like in my scenario with uh that I told you about with the billionaire getting taken to go see the orphans or the poverty.
It's supposed uh it's not God's goal to to get him to do the thing. God is not God is not focused on the ends. He's focused on and that's what I've been uh that's one of the things I've been focused on is the virtue ethics.
>> I mean God's definitely focused on the ends.
>> God God's not focused on the ends. He's focused on the heart of Jonah and the heart of the people of Nineveh, >> which is the ends.
That's not the ends.
>> What? Why not?
>> Because >> the ends are to uh save these people.
Let me just say it that way.
>> Okay. So, I'd say the the ends aren't uh well.
Okay. So, according to uh Okay. So, according to tradition as well, um, and I probably have to look up the verse on this and or, uh, yeah, I probably have to look up the verse on this, but Nineveh ends up being, uh, being ransacked. And Nineveh is not a nation anymore. It it may have been a nation in the past, but it is not a nation anymore. It was completely uh, ripped.
Um, >> so you're saying God knew that was going to happen, right?
>> Yeah. But when it comes to the ends, it's not um the ends aren't necessarily that something happens.
It's that uh he's not trying to change the trajectory of what you do. He's >> he's definitely trying to change that.
>> No. Uh well, he's trying to change the internal things.
And that's what he wanted for uh for Jonah to understand.
>> Then why did that >> why did God make Jonah that way?
>> What do you mean?
>> Like why did God make Jonah cap? Not capable, but >> Yeah. I mean, I don't know. I don't know how else to word it. Why did God Why did God make Jonah that way?
>> It just It just It just doesn't make sense, man.
>> Okay. So he he makes Jonah capable of making these decisions and capable of also making hold on he makes him capable of making wise decisions just as much as he's made him capable to make dumb and selfish decisions too. But he but God understands that you can't that the uh wise decisions won't mean anything if you don't have the possibility of making stupid decisions.
So Jonah just chose Hold on. Wait. Jonah just chose the stupid decisions.
>> Go ahead. I'm gonna let you finish.
>> But that does it. That was it. Jonah just chose the stupid decisions.
>> Sure.
God made him that way >> with the capabilities of such. He doesn't make him He doesn't make him stupid. He makes him with the potential that he can be wise or foolish.
>> Does that add up to you? Really? I'm just >> Okay. Why Why wouldn't it add up to you?
>> If you are capable of creating a machine and then you allow that machine to do things that harm or break itself, you are a bad designer.
If I have like I I do software. So if if I make some software that is capable of destroying itself, we call that a bug and then I need to go correct the bug. I don't I don't go and uh blame the whole program. It's my fault I made it. I can't blame I can't blame the program and I would get I probably wouldn't get promoted or lose my job if I was just like, "Hey guys, it's just the software doing it." And and then the my leadership would look at me like, "What the hell are you talking about, bro?
You're the one that wrote the code."
>> Okay. So, >> so it's just like like why would I It would be my fault and I should go fix it. I should go rewrite the code.
Okay, >> I gave the software options, right? And I didn't give it the correct options, which makes it my fault. The software can only do the things that I say it can do. And and think of it this way to tie into God. Why didn't God allow us to fly?
Why can't we fly? God makes limits all the time. I want to fly. Why am I not capable?
I I think that also goes into the whole bike analogy.
What? Okay. So, the >> But you're saying But you're saying that I should be able to freely do stuff, but obviously God sets limits.
>> Yeah. I I also agree. I don't think that >> so then then if God can set limits, then God can set limits to everything that I'm asking you about. God could have made limits to where Jonah would have never needed to be in the whale.
>> It doesn't mean Jonah doesn't disagree, >> but God God could have limited Jonah to be like, "Okay, God, you got me now and I don't have to go into the whale."
>> He could have disagreed all the way up to that point and then finally God made him in a way that he would just agree because that's what he ended up doing anyway. He made Jonah agree.
He didn't make Jonah agree. Jonah agreed on his own accord.
I don't know, man. I I I know you don't uh I know you're not trying to to make a excuse for the abuser, but it sounds like it.
>> Okay. So if uh like I said, if God were truly to say, "Hey, it's like, hey, you're going to do these this my way and you're going to do it like you're not going to have your own autonomy or else you are useless to me.
Then why did he still allow Jonah to be able to preach to the Ninevites?
That would be my question to you.
>> Why did he allow it?
>> Yeah.
Uh that's what he forced Jonah to do.
>> No, no, no. Why?
>> God gets what? Why?
>> Because God gets what God wants. I think that's pretty clear. That's God's nature.
Nothing happens without God's permission. So God gets what God wants because God in God's nature has no choice but to get what God wants.
>> If if God got what God wants, then he wouldn't allow Jonah to have a will at all.
>> No, because you said that God wants us to have a will.
So, that is part of God's wants, too.
And I'm granting that. I think it's silly uh to to punish people for something that you gave them, but I'm just rolling with you here.
>> The the fact of the matter is >> Yeah. Go ahead.
>> I I do have to go in about like 10 minutes or so.
>> Okay, that's cool.
>> But I continue. My My bad. I didn't mean I cut you off.
>> No, you're good. But I'm just saying like God everything that happens is what God wanted because God knew it was going to happen. And that's why I brought up the things that God doesn't allow.
So God puts limits on things like literally everything is God's fault because I don't see a being according to the story that is not stopping things when it wants to stop it and allowing things when it wants to allow it. Right? There's plenty of verses in the Bible where God's like, "I allowed this to happen to you because you effed up."
Like, and then there's parts of the Bible where it's like, I did this because you effed up. So, in every scenario, whether it's bad or good, guess what? God is to blame. For some reason, we just blame God for all of the good.
But no matter what happens, God itself has said that it is me doing it.
And this ties into >> Go ahead. Oh, I was going to say also I did look into that verse uh that we went that we talked about yesterday with God creating uh peace and evil and um light and darkness. I looked into that verse.
Um so uh that is actually like a a mistransation uh when it comes to the uh I create peace and evil. It's more so along the lines of peace or order and calamity.
>> Yeah, I know the calamity part people use, but at the same time, it's God saying he creates destruction.
>> Uh calam uh calamity just means disorder in that sense.
>> Okay. I just use the word destruction, but I mean it's it's the whole entropy thing you're talking about.
>> Yeah. And I I think that that's what um we see in the Old Testament when it talks about you know the world was out without form and void. It was disord in a disordered state. It was in a calamitous state.
>> Not necessarily that it was bad.
>> It's bad. That's what I meant. It's just bad.
>> The bad Okay, I got I got you. I got you. I got you. So, it's like God God does create these things. God is in control of everything. It sounds like God is uh our president of the United States right now.
>> Like somebody that blames everyone else, never blames himself while requiring higher standards from everyone else while he does everything that he condemns.
I would also disagree with with that notion through the of course the life of Jesus Christ, but I understand you're meaning like the father.
>> Well, wait, but like hey, we're talking about the father. It's the father.
>> Yeah, I I I understand.
>> So that's what we're talking about, right? So, >> but I also Yeah. Yeah. We're talking about the father.
>> That's a father is a mean father. mean like honestly I don't like what did the father do that was loving? Can you give me some stuff?
>> He sent his only begotten son >> that's not loving. That's evil.
>> How is that evil?
>> Because if I go send my son to do to fix some [ __ ] that I did, that's bad.
>> That's not what he That's not what's going on. He's not going to fix the things that he did. Uh >> who who is Jesus dying for?
He's dying for mankind.
>> Why?
>> Because we have sinned.
>> And saving us from what?
>> From an eternity without him.
>> Who made the punishment?
>> We create the punishment.
>> We don't create anything. Don't Don't give us credit when when we you want to.
Who who created the punishment for not believing in Jesus?
>> We also create punishment. That's >> we didn't. No. No. None of us even the most evil person on earth would never choose that punishment. We didn't create it.
>> Okay. So, the reason why do you want to know the reason why I say that we create sin?
>> H I mean, sure. Go ahead.
>> Okay. So it goes into what I what I was talking about yesterday when it comes to uh just the the nature of of what sin is.
Sin is anything that is apart from God.
So God by proxy cannot create that because he in himself is God. He cannot create separation in between us and God. It is us who creates that separation through that uh through our choices and through our autonomy.
Sin is just separation from God.
>> God would have caused a separation.
>> God doesn't cause separation. It is our the Bible is >> the separation would be a punishment.
>> No, the separation is the uh the separation isn't the punishment. The separation is the accident.
Not accident in the way that it's like a mistake, but accident as in it is a byproduct.
>> It's okay. It's okay, bro. God makes mistakes.
>> Yeah, it's a it's a byproduct of something.
>> God made a mistake. Say it.
>> God did not make uh >> It's okay, man. God obviously made a mistake. Even Even if we go when I say accident.
>> Yeah. You're trying to blame us again.
Right. You're you're blaming us. You're blaming us for everything.
>> I'm I'm putting I'm giving due credit where it is due.
>> Yeah. But you're not you're never giving God it's God's due credit.
>> I I am. He does.
>> If God was a human, would you say God is bad?
If if a human did everything that God did, >> is it bad?
>> If a h >> if a human if a human did everything that we're talking about, is it bad?
The only difference to me is like I put God in front of it and then you automatically have to um condone it. Uh, and remember what I'm saying guys, when I say we don't create anything, I'm playing along with God is in control of everything. So technically, no, you're wrong. We don't create literature. We don't create music. We don't create art. We don't do anything because nothing happens without God's will. God is doing everything.
There is nothing going on that would not be God's fault in this scenario.
uh I don't think that's a accurate representation of the framework that we that is expressed in scripture or even philosophically >> that's what God says >> now okay >> nothing happens without God nothing >> he sustains existence but he uh I yes he sustains existence but at the same time it is still us being conscious agents who enact these.
>> I like Job for a reason because even the devil had to go to God to ask for permission to do evil things.
Like God is in control of everything.
Everything. And I don't I don't understand how this is even a a debate.
God is in control of every single thing that happens.
It is only allowed by God.
>> Yeah, I I would agree with that second statement. It's only allowed by God. But I would >> which means which means it's your fault.
If like and this goes back to our whole conversation, my brother, like if you if you can stop someone from doing something bad and you do not, you are a bad person.
But as soon as I say God did it, we totally disagree with what we would say in society. If if if I saw you on a camera and there was some kid drowning in the water and I knew you could save them and you just sat there and watched and you were like, "Well, kid, I told you not to get in the water." I would call you the most evil [ __ ] Like I I would I would say you were the most evilst person. But put God in that scenario, all of a sudden that kid is it's the kid's fault.
Like you you would literally say that and like I want you to kind of wrap your head around that. You would say it's the kid's fault for getting in the water when you the god told him not to. That is >> bro, that that is horrible, man.
>> That's not what I'm saying. But it is because you're saying that God gave me choices, so it's my fault whatever path that I choose. But God is the person on the shore. Shore, sorry, watching me drown.
>> Okay. So when we see in I'm going to draw a comparison to scripture.
When we see Jesus being tortured uh by the Roman soldiers, he looks up to God and says, "What?"
>> "Why are you forsaking me?" Or well, it depends.
>> It depends on what gospel we're talking about, by the way. Cuz >> not just that, >> different things.
>> Yeah. As he's going to the crucifi as as he's being crucified, he says, "Father, forgive them."
>> Oh, forgive them. Oh, okay. That part.
Okay. for they know not what they do.
>> Okay, I I know it sounds pretty, but I don't know how this ties to our point.
>> So, not only does it is that pointing to God's mercy for whenever they're doing whenever someone's doing something terrible or doing something that they they have no knowledge of the implications of doing such a kid drowning. We see God's uh we see Jesus's expression of of mercy for those people, but we also see um just this acknowledgment of the weight of their actions and inaction. So the way the only way that they can be held responsible is if they completely understand the weight of their sins or the weight of their actions.
>> Yeah. That's why I would say but that's why I would say that that man who just waits on the shore is a monster is because he understands that that his f uh he understands and has probably lived long enough to see what death does to people and what death does to families.
>> Therefore, he understands the weight and importance of life.
>> That's God.
That's but that's where I also say God's mercy comes in whenever he whenever God does understand those things and that's why I also say that God pres uh well not I also say but we see in scripture that God has the ability to preach to those who's dead and he he presents himself to people. Why do all that though? Like I I I um I I get what you're saying, >> but that is putting people through drowning when they don't need to drown.
>> He get he gives them the possibility to drown.
>> That's not cool, man.
>> Okay.
>> Like if if I let my daughter halfway drown because I'm going to save her, you would still call me cruel.
If I'm like, "Bro, I'm going to I'm going to resuscitate her. I know how to do it." It's 100% It's 100% going to be for sure. You would still call me a monster for allowing her to drown with all that fear and everything and pain.
You would call me a monster.
Like, just say that for me. You would call me a monster. Me?
>> Would you not? If that if you if that was my story, right? Like and and that was my story. I'm like, "Hey, bro. Yeah, I let my kids drown halfway, but I resuscitate them." Would you think I'm a good person?
>> No.
>> Okay. So, then why does God get a pass, man?
Like, can we can we just can we just not give God a pass? Like, I get if you're just scared of God. That's different.
Like we would have a whole different conversation if you were sitting here telling me like, "Hey man, God's the most powerful thing. We just got to do whatever the hell it says." That's a different conversation. But you're trying to present to me this loving thing that allows its children to drown.
And it's like, "It's okay that you went through all of that drowning because I'm going to resuscitate you." That's still horrible.
Like that is a very horrible thing, man.
Like it kind of hurts my heart talking about it because if this is real, that's what's going on. And that is a horrible being.
>> There's no excuse for allowing that kid to drown at all.
And that's uh I I don't well first and foremost I don't think it pleases the heart of God to see people suffering.
It doesn't.
God's not uh I think that a lot of people in uh who are skeptics and critics of of Christianity and just the Old Testament God uh the Abrahamic God in general think that he he revels in suffering.
Um I think he uh I think God does talk about being being pleased and that like you will also praise uh people being punished >> like uh I think that's rejoiced.
>> Let me see cuz God I think God rejoices in like punishment of the wicked or something like that.
Uh, but go ahead while I'm while I'm typing.
>> Yeah, I'm looking to make sure. I'm going to say if I'm wrong, I'll say it.
>> Okay.
>> Go ahead and finish.
>> Yeah. We see Jesus himself in the midst of suffering. And even before he's about to go suffer himself, we see him uh saying, "Hey, God, if this is if there's any other way, like take this cup from me."
>> Yeah. Uhhuh.
>> And >> which is weird, but >> I don't want to change the subject.
>> Yeah. And we see also in um we also see that God is not willing that anyone should perish. But the pe but his will is that all people will come to repentance.
He doesn't revel in any kind of perishing.
>> To be fair, um my mis I don't know if it's misinterpretation or not, but it's more about God rejoicing in justice.
>> Yeah.
>> But to me, justice can be horrible.
But that's that's cool. I'll take I'll take back exactly what I said though. It it was it is more about just rejoicing in justice.
I I think that yeah, I think God does I believe God does rejoice in justice and justice can sometimes of course um you know in our eyes sometimes it can be a little bit eh but um that's besides the point.
I I think that's also due to the fact that we see we we've never experienced in our in our lifetimes what it means to have perfect justice. But I digress.
Um >> I still I I still think you're going to have to think. I know you got to run in a minute, but I want you to think about that, man.
>> Oh, man. This past time for you to run.
Goodness. 8:30 8:30. We're calling it.
8:30. We're calling it.
>> All right. That's four minutes. It looks like it's not 8:30 here, but it looks like it's 30 coming. Uh, >> got you.
>> But I just really I really want you to think about this, man.
>> Put whatever story you are saying about God, make it a person. And if you say that it's bad, you need to critique God in that same way. Please don't don't judge your don't judge your neighbor on higher standards than God because that is what we do, by the way.
And I hate that.
Like I I I like I truly can't stand it.
That's why our society is like crumbling. Like we judge people on higher standards than our other stupid beliefs that we and I call them stupid just because we can't prove them, right? Like it doesn't mean they're not true. Like I said, none of this means that God's not real. But yeah, all I am saying is we do not judge this thing that we say is in in control.
We don't judge it, but we judge each other.
That's >> Amen.
>> That's crazy to me.
That's crazy, man.
>> You and and that that ties into our uh our political views, by the way. Like, >> we allow the people in charge to do worse than we allow each other to do.
It's so weird this whole uh >> uh uh fallacy to authority. I don't know what to call it right now, but >> appeal to authority.
>> Appeal to authority. Like we just allow these people that are supposed to be taking care of us. This is this >> analogy for God. These people that are supposed to be taking care of us, making sure we we are okay, they're allowed to be evil and we get the blame.
And that's what we do for God. You allow you allow God to do whatever and then you would never allow me to do what God does.
Like you you would never allow me to do what to you what God does to people. you would kill me.
Like you would kill me before I got a chance to do it.
So it's just it was just like why why is God allowed to harm you, man?
>> Is it just because it's God?
>> No, I would just uh whenever you get the time, of course. not dodging your not dodging this and I I'll I'll address it, but just whenever you do get the time, I definitely would encourage to study up on or not study up, but to look into um ethical frameworks and look into virtue ethics in specific because I think that'll give you a little bit more insight into into what uh into the aim of God in the in the Bible. All right. You tell you what. I'm gonna I'm gonna take notes. I'm going to do this.
I want you to do the same that I asked though.
>> Okay.
>> And like like really think about that, man.
Because >> think about God as a as a man.
>> Think about think about every time that you defend God right now. just make that into a human story and and see if you make the same excuse for the human in real life. Make and there's plenty of horror horror stories, right? I think I can almost find a a story in the Bible that God did and put it into real life like for real. So, it's just like if you blame a person for doing the exact same thing that God did, >> okay? You have to question yourself.
>> If God did it and it's okay and if I did it and it's not, you have to you got to think about it, bro.
>> Let's let's define our terms. Okay. By human, you mean just a person with a limited and temporal existence?
>> What else does human mean, bro?
>> I mean, however you want to determine human. I'm just saying like I don't even care if it's the most if it's the if it's the person you love the most, right? It can be the best person in your life right now. if they did some of the things that God is allowed to do, they would not be the best person in your life anymore.
>> Do you think that regardless of reason would be the would be a factor in that?
>> Uh, let's do this. You're going to come with some scenarios where you think that God and the human in the scenario would actually be okay.
Because my whole point my whole point is that God gets to do horrible things and then we just say there's a reason.
And then when a human does it, we're like nope. Sorry, bro. No excuse.
>> I Okay, I will definitely >> And I got I got virtue ethics right here.
>> Virtue ethics.
And I will honestly look uh look look into this and I I'm still making my way through um Is God a moral monster? Did you Did you see I sent you that by the way?
>> Yeah, I did. Yeah.
>> Maybe we can start a little BOOK CLUB, BRO.
I JUST HEY, I just I I really want you to do this, man, because I think it's a I think it's a problem >> that you can like I said, I I I don't think I'm going to change someone's beliefs really. Uh I but I do want honesty in the beliefs, right? So >> yeah, >> from what I see, right, this is just me.
You believe in a god that is what's the nicest way mean like like really mean and you should start questioning that like just because and like I I know I'm trying to drag you on a little bit.
We're three minutes over. Uh, but just just just because somebody slaps the [ __ ] out of you and then puts ice on your face does not mean the slap was okay.
Like that is literally an what do they call it? Stockholm syndrome or something. That is literally a abused victim that now says that their abuser loves them.
So I'll let you close out because I said I wasn't going to start anything. Uh, I'll let you respond and you you'll get the last word. I try to be different than other channels. Like I'll give you the last word. So, go ahead.
>> Appreciate that, man. Um, yeah. Um I I still would say I I stand uh there's a justification to stand by God uh due to just an appeal to uh virtue ethics.
If God God is trying to create the most amount of good out of people who can freely choose him. So in order for us to be maximally good, in order for things to mean something, they have to have the possibility of being privated or have the possibility of being taken away.
Just like how if we value um a trophy that is earned through hard work and not just given through by by pure participation or just showing up, it's valued way more if you earn it. In the same vein, the good that uh the good that comes from choosing to do good is more valuable and is what God is seeking for in us as humans with personal autonomy. So, um yeah, that would be my my final word.
Even despite all the Oh, wait. Never mind. Never mind. even despite all the evils that we experience um as dastardly and as foul and as disgusting and and hurtful that they may be.
We know that um we know that the good means something.
We know that the the terribleness means something as well.
But it wouldn't be possible without uh without a god to see it through. And that'd be it. That's my final statement.
>> All right, man.
Kindred. All right. Thanks for uh thanks for stepping in, man. Um I I don't know how how how many how far I can get you.
I eventually if we talk long enough I you will agree with me bro.
>> Hey man. Or you will agree with me bro.
>> I'm telling I'm telling you. Well, here's the difference between me and you, right?
>> Uh I'm not trying to get you to change what you actually believe. I'm just trying to get you to see it differently cuz you could lie. I'm just trying to offer a different but you want me to >> you know what I mean? Like I think you want like like the belief part, right?
Uh I think My thing is even if I believed in the Bible God, I would still say the things that I'm saying. And when I was a believer like fully like I I honestly still used to question those things that I'm talking about now.
So like that's just something to think about, man. Like I just want you to be like, "Hey, I believe in a a mean ass thing." And then me and you maybe be having a little uh to me, I'm not saying we're not talking honestly, but I think we get to that next level of honesty when I can get you to say that, hey, God is mean as [ __ ] >> So, hey, I said, we'll see, bro. We'll see. We'll see.
>> We'll see. We'll see. Hey, man. Maybe I'll maybe I'll get you to to see this uh to see that this mean God is still worth looking into and maybe even wor >> as long as I can as long as I can get you to start off by saying this mean God if the day the day you really mean it, we'll take the next step.
>> That's all I got to say.
>> Hey.
>> So, all right. But let me let you go, man, cuz I know you said you had to go and we'll start a whole another conversation because it sounds like you're like me and we'll just start talking again. So, if you really gotta go, I appreciate you.
>> All right, man. So, I appreciate you, Kendrick. Uh, I I'm sure we'll talk again, man.
>> Indeed. And yeah, have a blessing, man.
>> All right. Take care, brother.
>> Peace.
All right.
Uh, we had a pretty long conversation again, so like I said, I do appreciate him calling in.
Uh, I wish somebody else.
Uh, I think we're coming to an end today. Like, like I said, it's a different day. Monday was probably just hyped up because everybody was on vacation. Uh, we had Ann and it was my first time streaming. So, uh, I think that was a little more hype than usual.
But, uh, we definitely will start doing these more. uh maybe like only like three days a week because I don't want to bore people out and I still want to make my my video content. I'll probably start breaking down some of these live conversations into segments for the people that don't want to sit here and go through three four hours of videos.
Um, unfortunately I'm going to see if I can get another video out for tomorrow, but I don't know if I have one lined up.
So, we'll see how that goes. But I I definitely appreciate everybody for uh stopping in. Um, the only way I stay here if it's is somebody wants to hop in and chat. If not, uh, we're going to go ahead and call it. And then I'll probably see you guys on Friday, I'm thinking.
And I'm thinking an earlier Friday.
So like, uh, we'll see that maybe.
Like my schedule's a little weird. Like I'm kind of spoiled because like I'm off on Fridays and all that good stuff. But uh, anyways, thank you guys for watching.
Don't forget to go press your buttons, click your buttons, let uh let the algorithm know that you actually like my content. Um, as always, I'm Jay. Don't forget, throw away your feelings, open your mind, and question your beliefs.
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