A ₹2.28L Cr AMC CEO on India's New Economy & How You Should Renew Your Investment Right Now | FWS115

Añadido: 2026-05-14

[00:00:00]You are responsible for 2 lakh 28,000 cr of AUM in this country. How are you personally managing your own money?

[00:00:07]>> The hospitals have just started getting listed. It's a matter of time that diagnostic becomes very big. All this will be driven by the rise in general insurance.

[00:00:15]>> As per the data, there are 20 crat accounts. How are these numbers going to change in the next few years?

[00:00:20]>> It could go to five times more than that.

[00:00:22]>> Five times. Somebody making a lack a month today. What advice would you give them?

[00:00:26]>> The world is at your feet. Already Indians are changing elections in other countries. They will not want you but they don't have a choice.

[00:00:33]>> You think that trend will increase of Indians wanting to set base in other countries.

[00:00:36]>> They will call you today. A good Uber driver earns more than a fresh techie.

[00:00:40]Think about it. A good society plumber owns far more than an engineering pass out.

[00:00:45]>> That's true.

[00:00:45]>> There are enough works which we thought were low-level works have started earning more money than educated work.

[00:00:51]>> From 2026 till 2030. What is the realistic expectation that I can expect from the Indian stock market? You have to get >> let's just you know get a grasp of it.

[00:01:02]You said Mr. Swarup uh you know it's not every day that I get the CEO of a AMC. You're the sixth CEO that I'm uh you know interviewing out of hundreds of people that have interviewed. Uh so thank you so much for taking out your time. I know you're a very busy man and from the latest data you are responsible for 2 lakh 28,000 cr of aum in this country and um for for me to get somebody of your background is an absolute privilege. So thank you so much for coming here on >> the privilege is mine you know when you look at the country and we look at uh 60% of world population under 30 in this to be in this country to be sitting with people such successful people like you make no mistake the privilege is absolutely mine >> thank you thank you so much and uh I think uh um my first question to you Mr. Swoop is that we are currently in a very um you know unstable government across the world and the capital markets are absolutely mirroring what is happening with geopolitical you know geopolitical geopolitical news around the world. So in a situation like this how are you personally managing your own money?

[00:02:23]>> See money managing comes over a period of time. I feel you know investing and managing your money is a journey of knowing yourself and and over a period of time you are subject to certain adversities in life and every adversity comes with its own difference every adversity comes with its own challenge but over the years what we've seen is that every adversity has a start date and an end date how you behave in between these do will define your money after that there will definitely be an end date right and in every volatility there is some opportunity. So how exactly do you decide like let's say um you know your risk capital let's say I'm saying you're an aggressive investor right you are comfortable with 20 30% draw down >> yeah maybe more than that >> maybe more than that right so so most people will have a lot of expectations in life right everybody wants the world but not everybody can get it because of the capital that they have so what is the realistic expectation that somebody should have in terms of how fast they can grow of their money. The reason I asked this is because most of the audience started investing in 2020 >> and co has probably set some unrealistic expectations for people.

[00:03:37]>> Uh when I talk to people today, if I say any number less than 20%, it's not exciting to do >> because their own portfolio is probably sitting at 16 17%.

[00:03:47]>> And if they see that okay last year market has given only let's say 3 4%, they're like what is happening? So from today 2026 till 2030 what is the realistic expectation that I can expect from the Indian stock market?

[00:04:03]>> See Sharon any asset will display the growth prospect of the underlying environment.

[00:04:09]>> Okay. If you look at the last 25 years of the stock market and the 25 years let's define it the reflection of the market of say has been the nifty50 right in 25 years typically before covid the nifty50 would double between 7 and 8 years >> okay >> at a time when the country was going faster than this >> okay >> right uh covid as you rightly said gave a very unnatural bottom >> which then doubled money in 3 years which then led to this 20 25% or whatever you say >> basically most of the people who are investing today invested at the bottom.

[00:04:45]>> Yes.

[00:04:45]>> And because of which >> they were very lucky but please those people have a dramatic head start.

[00:04:51]>> Even after all this their portfolio is sitting at 16 according to you 16 at 16 17% is a brilliant head start. M >> you've actually in 100 m race you yours is 80 m now >> you've got that and be lucky I mean be thankful that you got that bottom >> but from here on sanity will prevail probably we are reversing to that earlier mean of 7 to 8% because the country is going at 6 6 and a half% >> wait 7 to 8% what that is >> 7 to 8 years money double >> 7 to 8 years money double >> yeah money 50 which would double at that >> which is essentially 12% return >> yeah 12% is what I predict at the larger part of the market which is the bigger part of the market or say the larger companies. Now to get something above that you have to push the risk a bit either you can do it yourself do some research or there come to great fund managers there brilliant fund managers in the smaller company space which is mid and small mid I don't consider as small anymore but but the smaller side >> or you can look at very very interesting themes developing for the future >> so today if you had to let's say save up money for the next two years let's say you're saving up for a vacation saving up for um you know your son's education and you need a large amount of money between 10 to 20 lakhs how would you invest that money >> if it's for 2 years I'll stick to debt funds >> like which debt funds >> yeah I would I mean I would go little push in that mid category you know slightly above the liquid funds which start from ultrash short or the medium-term funds these are the funds which you could anything above 6 months money would go in there >> okay >> and then do an SIP there I wouldn't come to equity if the if the duration is two two years >> two or three years you will not come.

[00:06:33]>> No.

[00:06:33]>> So when should somebody even touch equity? What are the time?

[00:06:36]>> I say at least 5 years at least to start.

[00:06:38]>> So below 5 years don't even touch equity.

[00:06:39]>> I won't I won't especially in markets like this. See you can take a call. That call you should be ready for the call to go wrong also.

[00:06:48]>> See finally when you buy into equity or buying into companies, >> right? And companies are long-term place. If you go and ask the owner of that same company, is this the right time for your stock? He or she will say I don't know. M >> and you're expecting the fund manager to know the best 15 days of that stock is fundamentally flawed. You buy into a company to own the company because there are merits to that ownership. Then you have to take that journey when that unlocking of that value happens which I believe the fund manager would be confident because would have done that analysis that unlocking would happen >> since we are a pass through vehicle that unlocking goes back to the investor >> right it's happened across asset classes if you' have tracked gold the last 7 8 years was zil one year you got the money >> but right now that gold return which has come is belonging to the person who was invested not to the person who's investing now, >> right? It's the same thing everywhere, right? So below five years is I would say is a punt if you ask me. Punt goes right in great markets. There can be periods where 3 four years you can go through markets where the market returns can be sluggish. So when now let's come to your equity thesis. So when you have your conversation with your CIO, what is his investment thesis today when he's investing? Investment thesis is very simple.

[00:08:13]>> Okay.

[00:08:14]>> To buy a good company at a good price.

[00:08:16]>> Okay.

[00:08:17]>> We will not overpay. It can be a great company.

[00:08:20]>> When you mean great companies at fair valuation, what is the meaning of great companies in India? How do you define that? What is a great company?

[00:08:28]>> I think first of all any great company is top down. You sit with the promoters, owners, management, whatever you call it.

[00:08:36]>> That's bottom up. No, >> I mean for me it's first I mean first part.

[00:08:40]>> Okay. How is the management you can call it according to me that's where it starts with because >> so you start with that >> yeah yeah invariably everybody starts with that >> okay >> right it depends on how much depth into go you go into understanding that will >> so is it right for me to assume that your CIO or your fund managers are going to be talking to all the >> all portfolio companies all analyst companies >> promoters of all the companies that they hold >> yes otherwise how will you you can't it can't be based on secondary such all our portfolio companies would have been met by our analysts.

[00:09:12]>> So let's take an example. Let's look at your multicap portfolio, right? Multicap fund. Uh what are the top five holdings in that fund? Right? So >> we we are a little bank heavy at this moment. Private bank heavy and I think that's that's helped us good in this comeback >> uh broadly not just one I'll give you broad our our views on the market at this moment. We we have perpetu been private bank heavy since inception >> and that's really a lot part of our navies would have come from there.

[00:09:40]>> We've always been very confident of healthcare in this country. Some part of our navy would have come from there last 16 17 years. We've played auto in the ancillary form very well >> and we've always been confident of the ecosystem building there. M >> uh uh broadly we've had some very good calls over the period of time in in auto and ancillary to be fair to us right but then you start becoming very very company specific or sector specific if you look at what has happened in the last 2 3 years last 2 3 years the Indian markets have been the largest public issuance market of the world >> okay >> and something structurally has changed and and due to these public issues very strong new categories have come up.

[00:10:26]They yet to form industry status but incredible categories like say the mutual funds per se. We're talking about textiles. We're talking about chemicals, energy uh uh futuristic uh all these futuristic industries are being formed.

[00:10:43]Hence one has to look at them very differently. We were one of those very contra investors in what we call new age uh industries. is all these digital platforms and all. We've taken a very interesting contract called contra milling contra to the rest of the industry and >> you guys stayed away from those.

[00:11:01]>> No, we bought some you we believe these are very different companies >> and maybe they start at lossm does not mean that they will remain lossmaking.

[00:11:09]So we were early into some of these companies. It's all about the analyst bottoms up of how they go into every company. Uh so it's it's a fairly diversified portfolio. But at this moment our bets are these five six segments very clearly. Now we do believe that defense has a good play going forward but there are not many enough defense stocks to form a fund. So we have a very interesting ETF there.

[00:11:31]>> We have a defense ETF.

[00:11:32]>> Yeah we it's is probably the only defense ETF in the market. But uh but personally I feel capital markets a great place. It's the beginning of financialization of assets in in this country. When you mean capital markets, you mean like wealth management company?

[00:11:46]>> Broad everything from from a mutual fund to the index provider to wealth management to banks to insurance to exchange >> payments. It's it's see let me give you this example when I started selling funds in the mid '90s our portfol or or our uh fact sheet used to read banks then it became bank NBFC then bank NBFC financials bank NBFC financials fintech >> bank NBC financial fintech payments >> okay >> right and now we talking about this whole AI thing taking over >> and probably adding two three more versions to it right >> now it's probably the most diversified banking piece or or banking and financial piece globally when you compare our economy to any economy the space which which this the breadth of the space is is a very interesting case study no other country provides this and the listings are just about getting started >> so can you tell us what we can expect in terms of the listing >> I see listing across I mean I mean let's look at from healthcare say the hospitals have just started getting listed M >> it's a matter of time that diagnostic becomes very big.

[00:12:58]>> Yeah.

[00:12:58]>> It's a matter of time that chemists become big. The backbone, right?

[00:13:03]>> All this will be driven by the rise in general insurance.

[00:13:07]That's how the ecosystem grows. Now what used to be a brick mortar wealth management business stands completely on the threshold of getting destroyed because as the discussion we were talking just before that your age group shares anything on the internet. If we are expecting you to come to our office and sign a form and invest it's already a dead business right.

[00:13:33]>> Yeah. So now we get got we kind of introduced tech into it.

[00:13:41]That tech introduction is now looking like an automation process. But you have to get thought into it, right?

[00:13:48]>> And that's where agents will take over and agents cannot take over per se. This has to be very self-arning uh agents which will understand me and give me that solution. That's already happening, right? Right.

[00:14:02]>> Do you believe this will happen in the world of wealth money?

[00:14:04]>> It's already happened. I mean in a form of robo advisory it was already there but that robo advisory will graduate to that robo advisor now catering to me individually. It's very easy to do that because the machine tracks me 24/7 365 to the^ n till the time I am alive. It can run anything that I'm doing >> which a human cannot. Human has an office time 6:00 to 9 or whatever you call it. The machine works after that.

[00:14:34]>> Yeah.

[00:14:35]>> So it will always be at my service.

[00:14:38]Customer service is 247 on the bot.

[00:14:41]>> It is not 24/7 in the physical office.

[00:14:44]>> Everything is set to change and all of us are grappling with the pace of that stage and wealth management is no exception there. Right? And especially in a country and I'll give you very interest staggering data, not interesting data. By the end of 2026, 60% of our incremental investors are under 30 years of age.

[00:15:05]Think about it. Take a pause. Think about it. Now, I'll give you the staggering part.

[00:15:09]>> Wait, repeat. By 2026, we are in 226.

[00:15:11]>> Yes. By the end of this year, 60% of our incremental folios, >> okay, >> are under 30. Can you think about >> see the implication of that? You are not going to buy my products.

[00:15:24]My son is 26, 27, right? His portfolio or your portfolio may not have any correlation with my portfolio because your knowledge, your risk-taking ability, your financial status have no correlation to my generation. As a manufacturer, I have to build products to cater to this. First, I have to accept your risk-taking ability that you moved from risk averse to risk seeker.

[00:15:48]>> Yeah, >> that's not where it stops. I think the best part is you are now risk owners.

[00:15:54]Once an investor gets to the status of owning risk, no the financial penetration just catapults, right? Anything and everything can be proposed to you because you will know this is right or this is wrong. The basic thought that you don't know is already out of the window. And that's where the next five 10 now in if this is the data in the next five years the number of investors that will be added will be more in your age group than the present complete data that's where we are so today as per the data there are 20 cr demat accounts >> but unique number of people I would say would be about 5 to 6 cr people >> no more than that demat account is unique mostly >> what is unique only 20 cr unique demat account >> how many you cut down how much it won't be less than 12 to 15.

[00:16:44]>> So 12 to 15 cr people are already investing.

[00:16:47]>> How are these numbers going to change in the next few years?

[00:16:49]>> I would put a 510 number to that.

[00:16:52]>> What 510 number?

[00:16:52]>> It could go to five times more than that.

[00:16:54]>> Five times.

[00:16:55]>> Yes. See this shift from 10 to 12 13%.

[00:16:59]>> See pre-COVID the mutual fund folios were 2.3 crores.

[00:17:03]>> 25 years of work gave us 2.3 cr folios.

[00:17:06]>> Okay.

[00:17:07]>> Next 5 years we are 6 crores.

[00:17:09]>> Okay. Right now we are adding in this so-called subdued market 70 80 lakhs folios a year.

[00:17:16]>> When you mean folios what does that mean?

[00:17:18]>> The mutual fund folios number of new people coming >> new people investing in mutual funds.

[00:17:22]>> How much is that? 70 80 lakh per >> per year. Now it was more in the bull market where we were adding 2024 we added for the first time we crossed a cr.

[00:17:31]>> Wow.

[00:17:33]>> Now if you look at the wait just to you know get a grasp of it. You said before COVID that entire number was 2.3 cr.

[00:17:41]>> 2.3 crores only. That is 25 years of us logging it out >> and then in one year we add another cr.

[00:17:46]>> In 2024 it was 1 cr.

[00:17:48]>> Wow.

[00:17:49]>> Now if if it just is is business as usual.

[00:17:53]>> We're going to add a cr a year and that is not good. You should be adding five six crores a year.

[00:17:59]>> That happen.

[00:18:00]>> It'll happen. But what people like you are making it happen. Trust me and I'm not here to praise you or anything. When my son sees you talking about it, he gets excited. Is a reality. I am done.

[00:18:13]>> Yeah.

[00:18:14]>> Right.

[00:18:16]>> But maybe we can come and tell what has happened.

[00:18:19]>> Yeah.

[00:18:19]>> But they will relate more to you than to me is a reality. I have to talk your language to survive.

[00:18:23]>> Yeah.

[00:18:24]>> Is the truth, right? So when that is the set, then the entire landscape the pressure is on us to come and give you products which you will aspire for. I shouldn't be getting my risk profile to my product line.

[00:18:39]>> My job is to give you products. My job is also to tell you very clearly the risks associated with the product.

[00:18:46]>> So from what I'm understanding from what you're saying that the mutual fund investing demographic is changing at a rapid pace who are investing today >> is not going to be the majority share in the next 5 years.

[00:18:59]>> Correct.

[00:19:00]>> It's going to be completely different.

[00:19:01]>> Completely no correlation. So you currently you know in in mira asset you are already managing 2.3 lakh cr how are you preparing for these next investors work >> that's that's I hope I was hoping you would ask me this question because when you look at the demography the product has to be for that demography while this product remains >> and we'll continue to build track record on our existing make no mistake there's a business of building track record >> some of our funds are 16 17 years old in the next 5 10 years they'll become to enter can Can we retain this track record of the existing funds is point number one. But when you look at this, you have to be very conscious of what they need. See, there are three generations investing simultaneously for the first time in my career. My dad, me and my son. It's never happened.

[00:19:50]Typically, two generations invest. Now, my dad was a little insecure because of the environment of the country then.

[00:19:57]Mostly fixed deposits or debt, safe investments.

[00:20:00]>> I pushed it a bit. I moved to the capital markets. Now look at your generation, right? The environment, the state of the country, the financial security, everything is taken care of, right? You will, I keep on saying this is my observation of your uh uh generation. You will replace assets with experiences.

[00:20:22]Experiences matter more to you. Even that holiday we used to do, we used to do for ticking a box. No, you will not holiday like that. uh it's a completely new world first we have to understand that second respect that and then give solutions so some of the products that we say suppose an EV product we have I don't talk about it but everybody it's bought it's your generation which is buying it suppose the defense ETF we launched maybe some of us will buy but your generation will buy it more AI is a soul tool for you guys right are there enough opportunities developing yes the ecosystem is developing energy is something which you guys understand more than I do. So when you look at products and this will move from market cap investing to more thematic ideation investing. Are we giving you those ideas? Because you will understand the future of those ideas much quicker than we did.

[00:21:16]>> And more important >> basically you don't need to sell that idea to us. We already know >> you already know. I've stopped asking my son how do you know? And he says I know I've stopped asking because he knows >> first as a father that ego state to come to the thought that he knows >> took some time.

[00:21:32]>> Yeah.

[00:21:32]>> That's how it is in the business right now. Some of us who will delay it by 2 three years no >> will get relegated from the market.

[00:21:41]That's that's the crucial juncture you are in. So we are going out and developing ideas one idea a day. Out of the 40 45 ETFs that we have 20 of them are generated by us and all these generation are very futuristic ideas.

[00:21:55]None of them are the cliched market cap ideas that are relevant now. they are important.

[00:22:00]>> But 5 years later, if we do this, >> I think the market cap idea was relevant for my the previous generation. Like when I was introducing mutual funds to my dad, it was very important for him to tell him that these companies are big companies, you know, like Reliance and ITC. They're not going to lose your money, right? They're just going to stay the way they are. So for my dad, capital preservation at a reasonable growth was the, you know, the way to sell it to him. But when you talk to you know the next generation they're not necessarily going to get excited about investing in Reliance they want to know what's the future right so what are those ideas that you are coming up with for the next generation >> see from the active side let me tell you say consumption fund is in 16 17th year >> consumption fund >> this active fund was launched 16 years it's probably taken 15 years for people to realize that consumption can be a theme maybe the takeoff from here on will be very different >> so can you for the audience can you simplify what Consumption.

[00:22:56]>> See, consumption is what you use in your daily lives and then and during covid very importantly in everybody's life we could differentiate between what is a need and what is a want. Otherwise till before that it was a blur.

[00:23:10]>> Most of us thought our want was our need. M >> but when you sat at home for 2 years and did not exercise your money expense in a lot of things you started realizing that okay fine this is your need >> which we call staples >> in in our language we call this the staples >> consumer staples >> consumer staples which >> you will consume you have to consume for your basic survival then comes the aspiration part of your life and there is no end to aspiration right which we call discretionary you may spend you may not spent. So broad consumption worldwide is divided into these two parts. Then you form your own logic and find out which is your need >> at one point of time and AC was a aspiration. Slowly slowly moving towards a need. Global warming you call whatever.

[00:23:59]>> Yeah.

[00:24:00]>> Car had become a necessity but I don't think your generation will buy a car.

[00:24:04]>> Yeah.

[00:24:04]>> I don't think I don't think this is my opinion.

[00:24:07]>> Really? Your son doesn't want a car.

[00:24:09]>> He will never buy a car. First of all, not aspiring to drive only who will drive in Mumbai.

[00:24:14]>> So, but I'm just saying that public transport will come to a level >> where probably you may not need to buy.

[00:24:20]It's not that cars will not be sold >> but they will be sold in a different form.

[00:24:24]>> I don't think this see what's this whole thing giving up. It's throwing up this incredible gap that India has on dependence on oil and gas.

[00:24:34]>> If you go to China, China has eliminated the use of oil and gas at an individual level. None of them use oil and gas.

[00:24:41]Everything is induction, electric, everything. Right? It's derisking ourselves. Will we start this? Yes, we should start this. Will it happen? It has to happen. It's a progression. That ownership of you're owning it just from the environment is not the only reason why you will go to an electric car.

[00:24:58]>> Yeah. Do do you think do you think the next generation will want a house also?

[00:25:03]>> I don't think so. I mean I mean very early in my venture capital business I was exposed to what we call co-l livingiving or community living the number of community living it it was earlier in my generation catered to for our retirement but now it's happening at your level that you can define your house from your app was when I heard this story 8 years ago I didn't I didn't believe >> but go to the number of community building setups that are shaping up especially for the youth it's crazy I mean You come from Mangalore. I've been exposed to uh Manipal.

[00:25:37]It's a hot bed.

[00:25:39]>> Yeah.

[00:25:39]>> Right. Why would anybody go to a hostel when one can define from Mumbai what kind of room I want? What is the TV brand I want? What is the lunch from my you want to change it? There are community living which will give you the evening live performance. If you demand for it 30 of you, they'll get you somebody. So, so >> what I'm actually not very familiar with this. What is community living?

[00:25:59]>> Okay. Community living is very interesting is that that building defines for itself how they want to lead their life. In one flat there are four rooms. There can be four couples in that room or there can be four individuals in it's up to you. I can define whether I want to share my other room with another couple or I want to live with only guys.

[00:26:16]I want to live with guys, girls, whatever. It's up to you >> and it's very customizable and everything. It's on the app and they just they are just a provider.

[00:26:24]>> Wow. in the evening I want somebody to come to my house with a guitar and sing me five songs if there are 30 takers they will do it it's just crazy what's happening let's face it as this country develops when today I was reading somewhere that somewhere >> I wish this was there when I was uh >> think about it if I sell it to you will take it >> I won't take it you sell me anything what are you saying we come with those inhibitions >> but you are so inhibited you are so more open to life per se is where this opportunity of this country lies. It's just incredible what can happen in the next 10 years and it'll happen. So everybody I mean look at you right if my age I wouldn't have even dared to do what you're doing because the risks were so large.

[00:27:09]>> Yeah.

[00:27:09]>> The risk of failure from a society perspective was so large that risk is not with you. Correct me if I'm wrong.

[00:27:15]>> Yeah. I mean it it takes time but uh I feel like every year I >> but your parent will let you do.

[00:27:22]>> Yeah.

[00:27:22]>> Right. So, so my generation, >> no actually the first thing my mom said are you like I already had an admit to an MBA college Colombia >> and I had the I had the admit 6 months making plans to go to New York paid the hostel card deposit everything is done and then 3 months before I tell my mom I'm deciding not to go and the first thing she tells me Shahan don't do that are you sure like South Indian parents right >> Sharon by humble request one day I have to meet your mom >> because if she's let you do This is incredible.

[00:27:54]>> Yeah.

[00:27:54]>> And you're talking about Colombia. Okay.

[00:27:56]That's phenomenal. Yeah. Fantastic. Give credit to her. Fant fantastic. But that's the beauty.

[00:28:01]>> Yeah.

[00:28:01]>> In my generation, my mom wouldn't even dare. What are you saying? You do this.

[00:28:05]My My dad had said I I was planning to do social service. With all due respect to my dad, he said, I'm not going to give pay money for social service. And I thought and I was had got into a very good institute where placements were 100%. M >> and placement like the World Health Organization all he said no you do an MBA I won't pay money for that side >> interesting so people of my age um let's take the example of somebody making a lack a month today what advice would you give them in terms of because it's the first question they ask is what is the amount of money that I should save how much I should invest see I would I basic there's no logic but at least start with 20%. Take home post tax. That's where you start. Get into understanding where you are investing. Every asset class comes with its own characteristics, come with its own behavior.

[00:29:01]>> Whether that behavior is right for you or not, time will tell.

[00:29:05]>> It's up to you to understand that.

[00:29:06]>> So if he doesn't want a house, he doesn't want a car, what what aspirations are left.

[00:29:11]>> Travel the world. The world is at your feet. Now think of the data. Forget forget everything. I'm just now here I'm being the dad. Okay.

[00:29:18]>> Uh uh 60% of world population under 30 are Indians.

[00:29:24]>> Wow.

[00:29:25]>> The world is at your feet. Already Indians are changing elections in other countries.

[00:29:31]>> Yeah.

[00:29:31]>> There's a number of Indian. They will not want you but they don't have a choice. So first build your own profile.

[00:29:39]You want to stay in this country brilliant. I decided to stay in this country and nothing bad has happened.

[00:29:44]Everything good has happened but if you want to be a little opportunistic it can go anywhere that's that's the reality.

[00:29:50]You think that trend will increase of people wanting to set bays? Indians wanting to set bays in other countries.

[00:29:55]>> They will call you.

[00:29:56]>> Who will call?

[00:29:57]>> All other countries. They don't have people.

[00:29:59]>> Oh, like how Japan recently changed.

[00:30:02]>> I mean, where are the people there?

[00:30:04]>> Yeah.

[00:30:04]>> It's an old generation.

[00:30:06]>> Yeah.

[00:30:06]>> They don't have people to do basic work.

[00:30:09]>> Everything is open for you. First is this realization. Second, then it's each to his or her own. But that you are sitting on power un un what can I say unlimited power to do whatever you want. It is only in this country that you have this pathetic thing called dignity of labor or lack of dignity of labor.

[00:30:33]>> That is not so in brilliant countries.

[00:30:36]Work is work.

[00:30:39]Right? As we start getting into this part in India, there are enough works which we thought were low-level works have started earning more money than educated work.

[00:30:49]>> Like for example, >> why today a good Uber driver earns more than a fresh techie.

[00:30:54]>> Yeah, >> think about it. I can go on but I don't want to spoil but I can go about a good society plumber owns far more than an engineering pass out.

[00:31:06]>> That's true. Yeah.

[00:31:07]>> Right. and nothing wrong with it. Those people are hardworking people. Shouldn't they then get the position in the society they deserve purely on hard work?

[00:31:17]>> Yeah.

[00:31:17]>> Now that's something which your generation will change in India and it is right that it changes. That is when work is work comes to the four and people start exploring. You all already have started exploring so much. We were very like this in our care. There are five six career profiles. If you're out of that you're >> what are those five six career? Oh god, don't even get me started. Okay, when I started uh especially in Orisa, your first job was to appear for civil services. The cream goes there.

[00:31:47]>> Okay, if you are not good for civil services, then probably you be a good engineer or a doctor. A doctor in the house is always it was patriarchal. One family member has to be a doctor, right?

[00:31:58]>> Yeah.

[00:31:59]>> So a doctor or an engineer and then the banks, the PSC banks or the POS, probationary officers were also great.

[00:32:06]These were the four five written down sort of even within the civil services the clean is and had a big difference between IFS is is those days >> it's in the 80s that the India India actually liberalized and I was so fortunate to be in that part of the country and we thought that you know >> what do you mean it got liberalized during ' 80s what happened >> we started no India as a country started the liberalization process >> yeah so how economy >> uh So we thought in this whole thing new areas of work can develop. So as a son to two science professors I dared to study commerce because I was not good at science that's separate issue but I thought maybe this opening of the country will give a lot of opport I didn't know what opportunities but today when you look at that the banking private banking is a great example of that my entire industry is a result of that this deregulation of the fixed income earlier if you go to banks there was a painted board one year FD rate today you don't know it's on a daily basis it can change.

[00:33:09]>> Yeah, >> everything changed on the financial services side. When you opened up insurance, make no mistake, is my statement of a dear doctor friend. He made to me in 2000. It didn't make sense then, but it's making sense now. The penetration of medical insurance will define the growth of medical facilities in this country. That's happened everywhere. Think about it. So, the growth of medical insurance is just about started. So how much is your total family's insurance coverage?

[00:33:39]>> Oh, it's I mean I'm a paranoid insurance person. So me and my wife are covered up to 3 crores.

[00:33:44]>> This is health or life?

[00:33:45]>> Health. Health is health is three cr cover.

[00:33:48]>> See I have a and I'm super super protective. What will happen for 1 cr hospital bill?

[00:33:56]>> You never know. You never know.

[00:33:58]>> What is the worst case scenario in your head? Like because I can't think of a hospital bill which is that big. Like what are these worst case scenarios?

[00:34:05]Like I said, I'm paranoid.

[00:34:08]>> I have seen a fair amount of money go out with my father's hospitalization in 10 days. That's how this struck me.

[00:34:16]>> So you have trauma of the past.

[00:34:18]>> Not trauma of the past, experience >> experiences. So you've seen what can happen if you're not >> and luckily the bankers came with some solutions. So maybe I will settle at two. I'll be honest. This is the baggage of COVID or whatever you call it. Maybe I'll settle at two, but I will not go below two as a rule.

[00:34:35]Okay. So um you were talking about that interesting trend that as uh more and more people take insurance the medical facility of this country will increase. Can you correct that? So now if you see the growth that is how the ecosystem builds right. So health pharma led to healthcare as a as a uh what can I say as a bigger sort of theme.

[00:35:03]>> Earlier if you took healthcare it was pharma >> primarily there was no no stocks beyond pharma.

[00:35:09]>> Okay. Like just medicine stocks.

[00:35:11]>> So earlier if you took consumption it was primarily FMCG >> right? ITC and >> H now everything is broad. So similarly with the penetration of health insurance the hospitals will start looking different. We'll start giving you different facilities based on which opportunities will grow. Diagnostic was not thought of before COVID. Right.

[00:35:34]>> Yeah.

[00:35:34]>> Now having a health checkup is almost a given for every Indian.

[00:35:40]>> Yeah.

[00:35:40]>> Right. Finally the need to be healthy as a nation is growing. That itself is a an opportunity right we are talking about opportunities.

[00:35:49]>> So you said you were uh overweight on healthcare as well.

[00:35:52]>> We are always no we are overweight healthcare and financials perpetually >> perpetually.

[00:35:58]>> Now see when you look at that look at infrastructure of the country. The infrastructure till now was mostly physical in nature. When you look at anybody's infrastructure going forward it will not apart from that digital roads and railways. Now we talking about cloud, we are talking about the backend infrastructure, information infrastructure, data centers, this is the infrastructure of the future.

[00:36:18]>> Yeah.

[00:36:19]>> So if you were to build a portfolio of infrastructure till 2025, it would look something. When you look at infrastructure of the future, the infrastructure will add all this >> data center.

[00:36:28]>> Data center everything. So so what happens with these themes? This perpetually grows. We we our global uh uh ETF brand is called Global X.

[00:36:39]>> Okay. Yeah, >> the lithium fund is in 11th year.

[00:36:43]>> Think of the person who conceived it then that's ideation right. So if you sit on >> 11 years back lithium fund was started >> he started our social media fund was before Facebook not the IPO before Facebook somebody then would have thought that this is how the world will unfold.

[00:37:01]So when you look at say an energy part today how it will be in the next 8 10 years our our complete dependence on oil and gas will start reducing and that's where this opportunity grows. So when you look at this same stock market >> 10 years later the number of companies that would be available or which will appeal to you because of your belief and knowledge of them may be completely different of what appeals to me.

[00:37:27]>> And that's the beauty of being an asset manager today.

[00:37:31]when you create these themes and when you create these investment strategies um from the first principles point of view if I have to ask an investor what do they actually want at the end of the day it is returns >> right what they want is returns >> so when you are building a investment uh product you obviously create uh you know multiple kinds of products and and it's the users uh decision to pick and choose what they need to invest in. Correct. Right. So today I look at it as okay an AMC is like a buffet and I need to pick from the buffet what I need on my plate.

[00:38:10]>> Absolutely right. So that's how it is.

[00:38:11]So if my objective is for retirement, what should I pick from this buffet?

[00:38:16]>> Yeah. I mean see >> because I get your point about these new age themes and all of that but I can't put all my money.

[00:38:21]>> Absolutely. So when you look at your retirement one thing everybody should understand that you're going to live longer than what people used to.

[00:38:28]>> Yeah. So typically earlier we used to think of dying at 85 90 trust me >> even if you want to die the hospital will not allow you to die medical sciences will grow right >> the uptake in our longevity is going up significantly in the last 5 10 years it used to be a country where average was I think 70 odd now it's crossing 80 already right China and all they've crossed much higher than Japan people don't die practically right so that's going to happen so At that age in that last part of your life your only friend is money. That realization should happen very early. So planning has to be very long right? So when you look at that long thing how much you need you have to define. In that definition two things you can prepare for one is you can put a calculation on inflation that you can do online 6% 5% whatever you think right what you cannot prepare for is is where I'd like to leave behind a thought is that your lifestyle inflation you're working you want your lifestyle to increase nothing wrong with it >> but you have to keep track of that and the best way of keeping track of that is at the beginning start an income expense statement how much money you are earning, how much you are spending. You'll start understanding that last year you were spending X, this year spending Y.

[00:39:50]>> I do it every month.

[00:39:52]>> I do it every month from August 2012. I have a file.

[00:39:55]>> Okay.

[00:39:56]>> Every credit and debit of my bank, I can tell you if you give me 2 minutes.

[00:40:00]Right.

[00:40:00]>> Yeah.

[00:40:01]>> And that changed my life.

[00:40:02]>> Yeah.

[00:40:03]>> It's just for myself. I'm not trying to show anybody. Nobody knows. My wife also has not seen that file. But I should know how much I'm spending.

[00:40:12]>> Correct.

[00:40:12]>> Right. People tend to remember your purchasing habit. A lot can be known from your spending habit.

[00:40:18]>> Yes.

[00:40:19]>> And you are entitled to spend. It is your money.

[00:40:21]>> But you need to know where your weaknesses are.

[00:40:24]>> So that will define your actual need for money then.

[00:40:27]>> Right.

[00:40:27]>> Slowly slowly this become way of your life.

[00:40:31]>> Yeah.

[00:40:31]>> Right. Then you can't reverse. And why should you reverse? You've really slogged to lead a better retirement. I am not of that camp which says after retirement you should shrink. I want to lead a far better life after retirement then I will have time >> right. So that's my objective. So when you look at say 40 years beyond retirement when you put these two you will arrive at a figure that figure needs to be reviewed every year. It can only go up trust me people who manage to get it down. Brilliant. I I give you a lot of credit. So that's how you plan first of all. So from that will come the return.

[00:41:07]It is always very important to arrive at how much return you are seeking because if you are seeking 11 12 13% it can be done with what we are discussing. Now if you're pushing it to 14 15% then the risk parameter of that portfolio changes then you have to get into products which get you that risk for that additional 2 3% you have to push for such products which are futuristic in nature. It will probably sp start now small but suddenly will catapult in their compounding.

[00:41:38]>> So that 2 3% extra is where you have to go for such futuristic products.

[00:41:44]So for somebody investing today these futuristic products are what? AI, >> AI, EV, automation, energy, the way the country will unfold, futuristic in infrastructure, uh a lot on on healthcare, futuristics, you know, uh if those can happen >> and how much percent of my money should go into these sectors.

[00:42:04]>> See, depends on that how suppose if I'm seeking 1% extra, you can define 12 + 1 or whatever. I will put 12 as as uh for a long term is what my >> let's say 12 is my floor.

[00:42:16]>> Then you stick to this. No, dwell is my floor but I want more. I want 3% actually.

[00:42:21]>> 3%. Then you define and you can get a 80/20 to start with 20% there. Mine is an 8020. It's at after I've reached my threshold of a safety figure. Now I'm pushing for 30.

[00:42:32]>> Now I'm free.

[00:42:33]>> Now you can't take more.

[00:42:34]>> Ah now I want to be more there than here.

[00:42:36]>> Very interesting. Now that you've achieved your financial freedom number >> not yet freedom.

[00:42:41]>> Okay.

[00:42:42]>> Because that lifestyle change is continuing. What I thought was freedom I had received achieved long time back.

[00:42:47]Okay.

[00:42:48]>> But this part is pushing >> which part?

[00:42:50]>> This lifestyle change >> that has changed for you.

[00:42:52]>> Lifestyle change. I want a big house or anything. I just want to explore more in the world.

[00:42:58]>> Huh? What happens exactly? Like you had a number in mind thinking that this will be my expenses. What changed?

[00:43:03]>> No. See what we did between me and my wife, we had a safety number.

[00:43:08]>> Okay. If we cross this number tomorrow, see for people like us who have gone through 2008 carry a scar of job loss perpetually for no reason.

[00:43:18]>> You lost a job that time.

[00:43:19]>> I didn't thankfully. Okay.

[00:43:21]>> But I saw the massacre in the market.

[00:43:23]>> No, in my career I was staring two job losses >> but because 2008 prepared us for that.

[00:43:29]But that scar or that insecurity in my generation perpetually remains not like your generation. You can come to our office and say where are you working right now? I'm not working. I gave up my job. It's a very different thing. The confidence is staggering. But we are not that.

[00:43:43]>> So we put a safety net.

[00:43:45]>> After we crossed that safety net, then we started pushing.

[00:43:49]>> I think on that note, let's go to the rapid fire round.

[00:43:52]>> Yeah.

[00:43:53]>> I'm going to ask you some quick questions and I want some quick answers.

[00:43:57]So as of today, what is that one asset you would completely avoid right now?

[00:44:05]>> No, I would a real estate. real estate award.

[00:44:08]>> Uh looking at the current valuation, large cap versus small cap, what would you pick?

[00:44:13]>> Small cap today because of the future.

[00:44:16]You see >> price don't go by price. I mean uh whenever I say this, people think it's above my pay grade. I do agree it's above my pay grade. But check what Charlie Manger had talked about the price of Bitcoin when it was $430. Check it online.

[00:44:31]>> What did he say?

[00:44:32]>> He called it rat poison.

[00:44:33]>> Okay.

[00:44:34]>> So at $430.

[00:44:35]>> Okay. Look at the price today. So I'm not somebody who gets into price because as as the segment grows everything changes at this moment because of the listing and some incredible businesses have got listed and because they are small they are available to you at small cap. So my views >> basically look at the PEG ratio.

[00:44:52]>> Trust me my unlearning in the last 3 years has been so severe in small cap I can't tell you >> primarily because of this listing not because of anything else.

[00:45:05]Because the small cap was very different before co and today it's very different when the father was now the same business is owned by the second generation. Second generation is pushing listing, >> right? It's a demographic story there and some incredible businesses have got listed.

[00:45:26]>> Best investment you ever made?

[00:45:28]>> My miraet emerging blue chip which is the Miraet large cap large and made now >> like why would you say it's the best?

[00:45:34]>> It's 14 times in 14 15 years.

[00:45:37]>> Wow. 14 times in 14 15 years.

[00:45:39]>> 15 years. Yes.

[00:45:40]>> Oh my god. What worked out well in that?

[00:45:42]>> Just staying invested worked out. Now think of it. See, here's the thing. Now, say my one lakh is 14 lakhs. You would say you you were wow saying that 15 years 14 times. Now, if the fund performance give me 10%, I'll get one and a half lakhs a year.

[00:45:58]>> Now I don't care and I've done the hard work. Now I sit it'll make money. And that's what compounding is something you spend on which is not a necessity and you do it without guilt.

[00:46:13]>> Music. music. What What is the most expensive music you bought?

[00:46:17]>> Is it like a venile music?

[00:46:19]>> Oh, my new amp is fairly expensive.

[00:46:21]>> Your new >> amplifier is fairly expensive.

[00:46:24]>> Amplifier.

[00:46:24]>> Yeah.

[00:46:25]>> It's like one component of the music system.

[00:46:27]>> Yeah. Yeah. This all comes together. But you know >> Oh, you like keep upgrading it by buying different >> my new speakers and new amplifier is fairly expensive.

[00:46:35]>> Any any shop that you go to where you get all the >> No. By virtue of being in the ecosystem, people know me. So, they come to me. A these are not something that the average person buys. You buy some >> not a lot are buying. It's gone beyond average now. So, so it's something which has been in the family. So, >> okay.

[00:46:52]Um index funds or active funds in today's market?

[00:46:57]>> Both. Both. Both. See, I'll tell you why. And this is where I would like all of you to read up John Bogle a bit >> because most of them have read Warren Buffet. But what is fascinating to uh learn that here was Warren Buffet giving his active fund management style and there is John Bogle. If you read John Bogle his first statement to you is how can you invest your long-term money in active fund that's where he starts which is like crashing everything I >> but in India especially and and this is I'm saying out of neutrality the active fund management business is laid down by categories of funds. It's laid down by the regulator. Finally, it is a business of ideiation.

[00:47:40]New ideas will be more on the passive side than on the active side.

[00:47:44]>> Like an energy dedicated fund, you won't get here. You'll get there >> because the fund size will be small. So, it's >> no because wherever there is an investable universe, >> okay, >> I can create an index.

[00:47:56]>> Okay.

[00:47:57]>> And through factors, I can give multiple permutation of that index. Just give an example. They say nifty 30. Nifty50 is there. M >> I'll say no I'll give you nifty 20 >> top 20 stocks which is not available there I'll say okay fine so rup is given nifty 20 let me give you nifty 20 quality >> I'll say which is a better balance sheet >> he said no no no why quality let us in include quality and momentum a bit which trade a little bit higher or you know catch momentum better so I can give any number of ideation on that side if you combine the two this push from 12 to that 12 30 1 2% can be much better. So a mix of both is is >> what you recommend >> what see we are very well positioned there are great active managers who can give you great returns that's the beauty of India and on the passive side there's some phenomenal ideas being developed by across fund houses >> so gold in today's market hold buy or sell >> sip >> sip >> you've already done that year on year you're from Mangalore >> I'm I'm not asking for myself I'm asking Everybody there is nobody in India who does not buy gold on Dantra as a >> right cor right cor right cor right cor right cor right cor right cor right cor right cor right cor right >> so if you bought that there my humble request is don't buy it from the shop don't put it in the locker put it in the form of an ATF but continue that buying process >> one asset class you would increase your allocation to today >> maybe I'm increasing a little bit more on the commodity side >> the commodity and more you'll put >> yeah see in my 30 year of tracking economies this is the first time sovereign reserves are higher in gold and dollars.

[00:49:35]>> First time in your 30 years of >> 30 years. It's never happened. Dollar.

[00:49:38]See, in 2008, Warren Buffet said that the world will trade in dollars, which is happening.

[00:49:43]>> But at a sovereign level, people seem to have more faith in buying gold than dollar right now. That's the trend.

[00:49:49]>> And that has never happened in your 30 years.

[00:49:51]>> Never. It's the last time it happened last year. And we need to track this every year. If this trend starts widening, that's gold over dollar, then everything can happen. But it's a good asset. There's nothing wrong with it. at a at a see all of us own gold in a physical form >> maybe it's good to own that same amount in the if if I transfer my physical to digital lot changes right >> m >> um if not gold what would be the hedge in your portfolio right now my debt fund is the hedge in the portfolio >> debt fund is the hedge >> always one trigger that could change the market direction instantly today >> war extending another 60 Yes. Okay.

[00:50:32]Let's hope that that doesn't happen.

[00:50:34]Thank you so much. Uh Swarup Muanti, I think uh your 30 years of experience, I tried to capture it in 1 hour.

[00:50:42]Obviously, I'm sure I didn't do justice to it, but I would not want to take up more of your time. Thank you so much for coming here and being very candid most of all with the conversations about your own personal finance and your advice for the next generation. I should be thanking you for having this discussion very different from any that I have had that speaks of your ability to bring people out and speak more. So sin wish you all the best and thank you so much really been a pleasure being with you.

[00:51:08]>> No, I thoroughly enjoyed it as I'm sure the audience has and thank you so much guys for watching till the end. Um please feel free to drop down your feedback in the comment section below.

[00:51:20]And before I let you go sir, I would like you to nominate one future guest for this podcast. Somebody you know who you really look up to >> from our industry.

[00:51:29]>> Yes.

[00:51:29]>> Have you heard Vetri?

[00:51:31]>> Who?

[00:51:31]>> Vetric Subramanim. No.

[00:51:33]>> CEO of UTI mutual fund.

[00:51:36]>> No. No. We've not had >> so get V. He's a fund manager.

[00:51:39]>> Okay.

[00:51:39]>> Very depth. His depth in knowledge is I mean I look up to him. So maybe you can get better.

[00:51:44]>> I think I will send this clip of the video to him and I will tell him that he you have been personally nominated by Swarup sir and you will have to come.

[00:51:52]I'll do that. Thank you so much sir and um looking forward to having you once again in the near time future. Thank you.

[00:51:59]>> My pleasure. Thank you so much.

[00:52:00]>> On that note guys, I'll see you in the next one. Before you go guys, if this video gave you even one insight and made you feel differently about money, don't just keep it to yourself. Share it with your friends or family member who could use it too. And if it has sparked a new thought or even made you disagree with me, drop a comment below and tell me why. Your critique helps me make this conversation sharper and more useful for you. As long as you have me subscribed, I'll make sure that you walk away with one new thing every Wednesday and Saturday.