Pope Leo & Trump, War & Immigration - What Catholics Need to Know

Added: 2026-05-05

[00:00:16]Welcome everybody. This is the US Grace Force podcast. I'm Doug Barry along with my very good friend there is over there on the other side of the screen, Father Richard Hileman. I got the right direction. All right. And in between we've got one of our fan favors back.

[00:00:28]Father Chris Aar is with us. How you doing, father?

[00:00:31]>> Thank you, guys. Good to be back.

[00:00:33]>> Yeah, good to have you back. Especially right after divine mercy. I know we're going to talk a little bit about that.

[00:00:37]Fantastic. That is in your wheelhouse.

[00:00:39]That's that's great. Uh Father Halman, uh we like to kick it all off with prayer. And we like to leave that to you.

[00:00:45]>> All right. In the name of the Father, Son, the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[00:00:48]>> St. Michael the Archangel, defend us in battle. Be our defense against the wickedness and snares of the devil. May God rebuke him, we humbly pray. And do thou, O prince of the heavenly hosts, by the power of God, cast into hell Satan and all the evil spirits who prowl about the world, seek in the ruin of souls.

[00:01:07]Amen. In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[00:01:12]>> Amen.

[00:01:12]>> Fantastic. Awesome. Thank you, Father.

[00:01:14]And once again, Father Chris, good to have you back on with us. Uh pretty interesting topic we're going to hit tonight. And uh Father Hammond, I'll let you start her off.

[00:01:22]>> Well, thank you for being with us, Father. Um we love having you on and father uh father is the provincial superior of the uh Marians of the Immaculate Conception or the Divine Mercy fathers too is another name as well and we just celebrated Divine Mercy Sunday father and uh you had quite a a a great event. Um can you help us give us a little recap of what happened?

[00:01:49]>> Yeah. No, it was a blessing. um you know after COVID hit many churches have never seen the in-person numbers rebound uh from from after that effect and uh our numbers also went down quite a bit during co what I mean by that is the number of people visiting physically on the that day divine mercy Sunday and what a joy it was as we had our our um sky pictures from the air and the crowd was so immense that not only did it fill all the bleachers, but the crowds overflowed significantly onto both sides >> way out into the peru uh peripherals into uh the uh into the overflow areas.

[00:02:36]Uh we had over 20,000 people. Wow. Which we haven't seen since pre-COVID when we had used to have 25,000 a weekend. So, what a blessing >> to see people coming back. And I think that it kind of ties into the topic of the show. People are looking for clarity. They're looking for, you know, help to understand what's going on and what do we need to know.

[00:02:59]>> So you talk about people seeking clarity and and and wanting to find out kind of what's going on. And there does seem to be this, I think, a greater dividing line, my way of looking at it at least.

[00:03:08]We we have reports of a lot of people coming into the church lately. Numbers seem to be growing in certain areas, especially younger people. These are the reports that we're hearing. And yet we're also seeing uh some very egregious activity on the evil side with regards to greater attacks against dignity uh of the person in various ways. Uh and there's so many different reports. You look at other countries and different things regarding pedophilia, human trafficking, abortion. Um but also things like a greater effort for this unification between the red green alliance, you know, the the more radical Islamic movement with communism. Uh we've had a speaker recently back in January on John Gondola who spoke a lot about that. He's worked with the FBI.

[00:03:51]Really recommend people check out that that episode of the podcast. Um he's worked with the FBI and he's worked with the Marine. He's he's a Marine and has done an enormous amount of work regarding intelligence and what's happening there. And this is an active move. There are people trying to really under undermine our country. We know this. This is not hidden anymore. the socialist movement, the mayor of New York City, all these different pieces, and there's confusion, and then the situation with the war in Iran, and then what the left is referring to as a fight or a feud. Those are words they use between Pope Leo I 14th and President Trump. And I think personally, a lot of that's overblown. Uh we've always had popes disagree with with leaders of countries, emperors, kings, different rulers at different times. It's not necessarily uncommon, but the left of course likes to go with the if it bleeds, it leads approach and we've got to bleed. If it's not bleeding enough, let's make it look like it's bleeding even more. Uh, but I'd love your take on all of these different pieces. I know there's a lot there to discuss, but the the people are I think Catholics are confused and and then there's this division issue or last thing I'll I'll say here, last point, Father. this division issue between those who want to see something good come from, for example, the war that's going on in Iran right now. They want to see something wholesome come out of this. Wholesome meaning let's end the regime that has been persecuting its people over there for a long time, 47 years. Um, and I know you've got some information for people to understand about where that is really deeply rooted. Um, and it's not just in Islam is the communism aspect of that. But then also we've got people that are that are just war tired. We're tired of talk of war and and all this discussion, but we're living in a mess in different ways and it's creating division. If you're on one side or the other, the Pope is bad. No, President Trump is bad. No, wait, maybe this, maybe that. Can I believe in a little bit of this? Can I understand a little bit of this? And think that they're both right in different ways. And it's really created a lot of havoc for a lot of people. And again, as father said, Father Allah, that's one of the reasons we wanted to have you on. you've got a good level head and a clear way of trying to explain this. So, there's a lot I just threw at the wall there. You pick it apart and tell us where you want to start.

[00:06:05]>> Well, I think the place we got to start um is kind of what Father Richard was saying prior to the show beginning. And that is, you know, how are we going to heal this division? And personally, I think you got to stop the ad hominin attacks.

[00:06:23]um these attacks that are based on the person and not the facts or the or the context or the content, but just attack the person. Like, you know, in an ad hominant attack, it's not about the issues, it's about the person. And we've turned this um this level of uh bickering to a new level in the since social media has taken taken root. And uh boy, what gets lost in this is the dignity of the human person. And um you know, we go back to the abortion battles, we go back to immigration.

[00:07:06]What is the core of all of it? The dignity of the human person. And so if we can't treat each other regardless of what our position is now, you know, we we Marians always say um we don't belong to any particular political party. We belong to the party of Christ. That's what that's who we belong to. So I don't care if you're Democrat or Republican.

[00:07:30]If you support um ending abortion and you support marriage uh between one man and one woman and you support preserving religious liberty, I don't care what party you're from. I that's a candidate that we as Catholics can support.

[00:07:47]>> And so on the flip side, I don't care what they stand for.

[00:07:52]They're Democrat, they're evil, or they're Republican, they're evil. when you know I I I would have to say our our ideas align more with one political party than another. But even on the other side of the aisle, you have people like Federman who is um you know standing up against some of his own party to say listen um there are some things here that are really wrong within our own ranks. Um you could say the same thing about the other side of the aisle as well. And so if we could just get back to the dignity of the human person, um, and look at, okay, we disagree on this, but what's the truth? Um, we were also talking before this show began that you're never going to end division until all sides look at the truth. That is the only way to bring everybody together is what is the truth? And how do we know the truth? Go to church teaching. Go to the scriptures.

[00:08:49]This is how we know the truth. And so if we are faithful to the teachings of Christ given through the scriptures, given through the magisterium, given through sacred apostolic tradition, then there's an easy solution to all of this.

[00:09:06]>> Respect the dignity of the human person.

[00:09:09]Then engage in debate. And then within the engagement of debate, you simply highlight what is truth. And if somebody says I disagree because you know our world as you know Doug is full of cultural relativism. Um but if you disagree you just simply go to those three pillars of our faith scripture the magisterium and uh and sacred apostolic tradition. Now I know many people will say well I don't believe in the Catholic Church so don't use uh you know magisterium and and sacred apostolic tradition on me. I do realize that. But you know what? Then go to the natural law. How who can argue the natural law?

[00:09:51]The natural law is such a beautiful gift that it doesn't matter if you're Christian, Jewish, or Islam, Muslim, the the natural law is there. Sometimes they're ill-informed and their conscience is maleformed. Uh so they don't see the natural law like thinking that it's good to kill in the name of God. But the bottom line is if we can somehow find a way end ad hominemum attacks, respect the dignity of the human person and stand for the truth and let the truth speak for itself. I think you're going to see an end of a lot of that division that doesn't need to exist.

[00:10:28]>> Father, thank you so much for starting with ad hominan >> because that's been that's exactly where I am too. I was just on another podcast earlier and that the podcaster asked me to kind of sum up what I'd like to tell everybody. I says, "Stop the Calumnian detraction." Yeah. Resist that temptation, please. I mean, it's it's it's it's the expression, it's going viral, this uh these ad homonym attacks, and it just tears my heart apart. And you're and then you're seeing the division. And when you do the ad homonym too, it it raises it to a whole new level. And u and it doesn't need to be there. Listen, we can disagree. Uh we can disagree with family members and still have a nice turkey dinner together. You know, it it just there's a way to do this. And I think that's what we want to talk about uh on this podcast here. And uh Father, especially I I'd like you to touch if you could. Um, I I I love both of these guys a lot, you know, cuz our our title is Pope Leo and Trump because we've been heading in a great direction. We really have. I mean, you've got a Pope. Hey, he's from Chicago. That's pretty cool, you know.

[00:11:44]Um, we used to vacation in Chicago with my cousins every year. Um, but so and so I kind of grew up kind of a Cubs fan.

[00:11:52]Don't tell anyone that, >> you know, can I interject there? I'm I'm from Detroit and I got a t-shirt that says I'm so bad I vacation in Detroit.

[00:12:04]>> Nice. Yeah.

[00:12:07]>> Sorry, I didn't mean to interrupt.

[00:12:08]>> No, we both had big families and my parents didn't have any money at the time, so we'd go to their little ranch house for our vacation. It was great. We loved it. But uh anyway, uh so that's all cool and and things have seem to be going. And then President Trump, he's he's about ready to the nation to one nation under God on May 17th. I mean, come on. And he's he's saying all he's all for religion and things like that.

[00:12:36]So all this and and we're seeing the revival going on. And I think these two guys are play a big role in that. you know that there's a and so we love these guys and and and so you know but you're right and and you guys have touched on this is that the those who oppose God, those who oppose the truth, those who oppose natural law are trying to get us revved up against each other. You know, he's diabolos, the one who divides. It's all also known as being the accuser. Uh and and and anyway, so father, you know, here we are and I think we should talk about it. You know, here's the things that, you know, probably at least in our estimation right now, we we uh we kind of cringed at for a little and I'd like to talk about our awesome religion loving president at this time, too. But yikes, >> some of the stuff he puts on True Social and I just went, I don't get it, Mr. president want to talk about that.

[00:13:38]>> I support I support the platform on many uh aspects but yeah when some things were made such as we need to destroy the entire reign civilization it's like you know come on there's >> I think he was talking specifically to the radical you know maniacs that that that are obsessed with killing people.

[00:13:59]>> What's interesting is that's not the Iranian civilization.

[00:14:03]>> Yeah. The Iranian civilization is not Islamic. And so one of the good things that would come out of this or we hope that comes out of this >> is the fact of a regime that has been oppressive beyond human uh comprehension for 47 years that was um put into place.

[00:14:28]uh by now it has been proven has been put into place by the communists by Russia and um it was an infiltration and it was a takeover um utilizing Islamic um uh avenue to get uh uh to get inroads and they overthrew the uh the the government and and the sha we know the story but the point is Iranians are not Muslim they are Persian they are Persian. And so um you know when we talk about this element we have to realize that um you know to overthrow don't overthrow their civilization.

[00:15:10]Yeah. I think >> when you say that father real quick because I want to be clear on it too.

[00:15:15]They're not Muslim they're Persian.

[00:15:17]You're talking about the population not those who are in charge. Right.

[00:15:21]>> Correct. Absolutely. Absolutely. We're talking about the Iranian people.

[00:15:26]>> Right. those who have been put in charge were radical fanatics that um using uh Islam as their tool um have been oppressive. We know the stories of the beheadings and you know the reports are now 30,000 people have been killed of their own people um you know protests.

[00:15:45]It's just it's it's it's mindboggling.

[00:15:48]And so the point that we have to keep in mind is that, you know, um there's some good that the uh that we would hope that would come out of this, which would be get rid of a regime that isn't even of the people. The people are desiring, they're begging, they're pleading for help in this overthrow. So there is some some right intention here, but the way it was portrayed and and the way the word that was used by the president and some of the um the rhetoric around it uh wow uh could have definitely been done better in in my opinion.

[00:16:26]>> Yes. What I'd like to say is, and I love your comment on this, that it is okay for us to disagree and still find good things and not maybe so appealing things about the Pope or good things and not so appealing things about the president or anybody for that matter. And we should still be able to get along peacefully in our families and in our communities and in our workplace and in our parish and not let these things become such dividing points that wedges are driven through relationships causing grudges and and some pretty harsh judgment sometimes um towards one another. Can you address just that piece alone? How we just need to not let these things divide us so so quick. We can disagree >> and be okay with that, >> right? And we have a tremendous precedent of a pope and a president working together in John Paul 2 and Ronald Reagan.

[00:17:20]>> In fact, there's books, one of the great books I read over the last few years is called A Pope and a President and it was the story of Ronald Reagan and John Paul. You know, both were shot weeks apart in 1981 and both technically should have died uh in transit on the way to the hospital.

[00:17:42]Both had a miraculous survival uh because it was almost like the bullet, you know, in in in in in one sense changed dire trajectory.

[00:17:53]But both said they believe they were spared by God for a purpose. and they believed that that purpose was to end communism. Now, of course, John Paul isn't talking about through arms and nuclear war. He was talking about through the truth, and that's what we have to keep getting back to. Now, what's interesting is both of those two guys came together. And um I got a real quick story if you don't mind me going on a tangent. Cardinal Jievich um was his secretary, John Paul secretary for 40 years. And I pulled up to the shrine one day and there's Cardinal Jievich right here at our National Shrine of Divine Mercy. And he told an incredible story that just shook me to the core. He said um you know Ronald Reagan and and um and John Paul became very close and during particular times of prayer John Paul stated that um you are not to disturb me for anybody nobody during this holy hour. I'll deal with everything else after unless it's Ronald Reagan.

[00:19:03]And so Ronald Reagan, lo and behold, one day John Paul's in prayer and he was never disturbed. The cardinal never went in there, never disturbed him. Well, lo and behold, one day the phone on the phone was Ronald Reagan. So the cardinal then said, "Well, I I need to disturb the Holy Father for his own directives."

[00:19:27]And he walked in. This is incredible.

[00:19:31]He said he walked in. So John Paul didn't know anybody was in there and he walked in and he said John Paul was carrying on a conversation with God.

[00:19:47]>> And he could hear him asking God why and then saying I understand and I understand I have to take this cross. Look at the cross he took getting shot, having Parkinson's disease. Um but but that just really struck me >> as how a pope and a president can work together.

[00:20:12]>> Yeah.

[00:20:12]>> Um for for a common mission of human dignity, u preservation of religious liberty, which is what communism is out to destroy. And um in this we have the answer. And both of these men, um, you know, as you pointed out, Father Richard, uh, you know, we support a lot of what they're trying to do, but let's just bring them together. And, and we got to pray for that. It sounds cliche.

[00:20:39]>> It sounds cliche, but if we're not praying for this unity, um, we don't have a prayer, literally. I mean, no pun intended.

[00:20:48]>> And so, we have to pray uh for our nation, regardless if you're in a favor of the president or not. Um, you know, one thing that struck me is on our our YouTube channel, people write in comments and somebody wrote in a comment that said, "We are not to pray for President Trump. He does not deserve it."

[00:21:09]>> Wow.

[00:21:09]>> And so, you know, my my thought was, well, that's exactly why we need to pay pray for the president by the office no matter what. So, somebody wrote back to me and they said, well, did you pray for Obama and Biden? And I wrote back, "Absolutely."

[00:21:25]>> Yeah.

[00:21:26]>> Absolutely.

[00:21:27]Um that you don't not pray for the president because you don't like his character. Um you know what we have to do is pray that we're one nation under God. And in fact, that was the theme of our our Divine Mercy Sunday this year was one nation under God's mercy. And you know um do you know um Lincoln of course Washington mentioned under God uh uh in the uh address to his troops uh on July 2nd 1776. But in in Lincoln addressed this at the Gettysburg address that that the Civil War was punishment for our sins. Not I don't think he used the word punishment but it was the consequences of our sins. and um slavery. So he said that the civil war is the consequences of our sin. Guess what? Of division.

[00:22:26]>> Division.

[00:22:27]>> And so this is why we need to pray for our country. So in a nutshell, father, you talked about division even within our own Catholic uh hierarchy. That's where I think we have to start. Let's start praying that our priests, deacons, our our bishops, and our cardinals will follow the teachings of the church. And that right there will bring a lot back together because we have some that are not necessarily adhering to the teaching of the church. And so if we can start there, heal within our own family, that being the Catholic Church, then we can be better witnesses.

[00:23:07]>> Yeah. Father, um I I want to ask you uh in a second here about the just war theory, but um I want to share because you kind of triggered it for me real quick that everybody stay on the lookout because we're about to uh pull together a campaign. We pray each year the novena for our nation, 54-day rosary, novena for our nation, and we always end it on the nation's capital uh right there on the grounds. And uh it's always the Sunday nearest October 7th which is uh the commemor commemorates the victory of the battle of Leanto in the Holy League.

[00:23:44]And we want to get a holy league together. We need Holy League 2.0. You know what was going on in 1571? They were weak. They were divided. You know Catholicism. And so those the enemies of Catholicism thought this is their time to come in and deal the last blow.

[00:24:01]Hello. That's exactly where we're at right now. it seems. And so we're calling for that. But uh because we're in the year of St. Francis, it's super cool that the Sunday nearest October 7th and uh is on October 4th, >> which is the feast day of St. Francis of Aizi by God's design.

[00:24:21]>> But Fina is the 5th.

[00:24:24]>> Yep. Yep. And so um we're going to build around this, but the the whole thing is we need to unite. We need to unite. So, here's the quote we're building around for this year's prayer campaign we're going to be doing. And and this is St. Francis.

[00:24:40]We have been called to heal wounds, to unite what has fallen apart, and to bring home those who have lost their way. Unite. So, Father, you know, it's so important uh for us to be praying for that. So, you'll hear more about that.

[00:25:00]you know, we're going to start this August 15th and go to October 7th. Uh, but again, you'll hear more about that.

[00:25:06]But, Father, could you help us understand because you have a a wonderful way of kind of breaking down the Catholic Church's teaching on a just war? Can you help us with that?

[00:25:17]>> Yeah. And and if you don't mind, Father, before I say that, you couldn't have picked a better date. You know, I have been preaching a long time. To me, the first week of October is the single greatest heavyweight battle y of the entire lurggical year. On on on October 1st, you have uh St. TZ. On October 2nd, you have the guardian angels. On October 4th, you have St. Francis. On October 5th, you have St. Fina. On October 7th, you have the Our Lady of the Rosary. I mean, those are gigantic.

[00:25:54]heavyweight heavyweight fighters >> and we join the nation. We call it the national rosary rally there and we have a way for people to tune in but also we encourage everybody to get their own groups all around the nation. We call that rosary coast to coast and we all pray together at the hour of mercy.

[00:26:12]Okay, central time 3:00 central time the rosary together rosary coast to coast in league with national rosary rally. It's an amazing event. So everybody, you know, mark your calendars and tune in for that. So father just war theory.

[00:26:28]>> Yeah.

[00:26:29]>> Break that down for us so we can understand.

[00:26:31]>> Yeah. And you know it's it's interesting because um you see even division again within our own Catholic ranks here. And um you know one thing I would just like to clarify is um you know I think that when it was stated that um you know by many Catholic bishops and cardinals that this is not a just war. Um I'm not saying that it necessarily is. But what I would like to ask the question is which of the conditions is violated.

[00:27:04]Okay. So the first condition is that there must be grave and lasting damage caused by those you are going to war against. I don't think anybody would argue the last 47 years filled with beheading and murders and oppression of Christians and killings in the name of um of of God which >> almost like culminating in the just weeks before of 35,000 >> innocents gunned down in the streets of Iran >> sponsoring terrorism all over the place.

[00:27:41]Yeah, >> it's the it's it's the you know what that's a good word, father. a culmination Yeah. is 47 years of this >> have now hit a level of killing 30 35,000 of your own people. I mean we haven't seen >> Yeah. unarmed. We haven't seen that since since the communists uh back in the cold war. And so this is very troublesome. Um well I guess you could say Rwanda with the genocide. I guess obviously would be and well I guess I'm wrong there too because um the ethnic cleansing in Serbia and Croatia. So I I guess this is man's inhumity towards man. You know it it really is. Um but let's just say there has been severe and lasting damage. Um grave and lasting damage that has been done by this evil uh uh uh you can't even call it an administration. Um uh uh >> does the threat of of more damage weigh in than in this part or is that come later? Because the does the threat of more damage, the threat that they are >> be being recognized as evil as they are capable willing uh they get 72 virgins if they do it, you know, it just um is so long range ballistic missiles.

[00:29:04]>> Yeah. The threat of nuclear war. Is that weigh in in this first part or is that down the road? Well, this this is part of it because, you know, one of the things I don't think Trump did well enough was explain and and this is just something that um crit criticism uh critical people of him are saying, "Well, we already did this once before.

[00:29:25]We went in under the pretense of weapons of mass destruction and there weren't any and we're making the same mistake twice." No, we're not claiming that they have this stockpile of weapons of mass destruction. What they're trying to say is we're trying to prevent them from being able to develop and manufacture weapons of mass destruction. And so that is key. And so um look at both the past and the potential in this first category and you got a problem. You got a problem from all the killings that have already been done and you got a gigantic problem for the potential of the amount of killing on a catastrophic scale that can be done. All right, the next element of a just war is a last resort. Now, this is the one that I probably would be most agreeable that is is probably the harder of the four to defend because in one sense, have we tried everything?

[00:30:32]Well, there certainly is news reports that the president and and the US have been trying to get them to negotiate and that Iran just simply says we're not negotiating. um you know it's hard the tribal mentality in which Islam comes from um they don't understand democracy they don't understand um uh this kind of um uh political uh approach to solving problems they only understand force and so this is one thing that maybe Trump has not done enough of. But the second element of a just war is that war has to be the last resort. Some can argue that he tried diplomacy. He tried it and tried it and they did not react to it. I I I could kind of agree to that, but others might say, did he do enough to try? Is this truly the last resort? I I I could see both sides here, but I I would have to be convinced that he didn't try any uh diplomacy uh to say that this this category is not met. So that's the second category of a just war. Now the third is that it has to have the prospect of success.

[00:31:48]There's no question with our US military, God bless our men and women in uniform, that we have some of the finest um not only equipment but fighting uh men and women in the world uh that understand their role and their mission.

[00:32:06]Um and um the prospect of of success is very high. So nobody I think can argue that it would be suicide to go in if you think with a peashooter that you're going to take on you know the Chinese army for example. So there would be no just uh war in going in in something that you just can't win and you're just going to cause a bunch of lives. So you know and the good cannot prevail. The third, that's the third. Basically, the last one is the proportional uh understanding. It kind of goes with the principle of double effect. Um your means can't justify the ends if they're evil. So, in other words, an evil approach, it can't be greater, the evil that is done cannot be greater than the evil that is prevented. So if we decide that we're going to go in and destroy the whole entire civilization, meaning all the citizens, all the people, which I don't think that's what Trump meant, as you said before, but if that was >> Can I can I interject real quick, father?

[00:33:19]>> Because I I call I gave myself a new title. I'm I'm father connected dots is one of them. But uh but this one is uh I'm childishly hopeful. Okay. And why do I say that at this moment? Because I'm childishly hopeful. He spoke that kind of language because of the level of evil this this radical regime is. And it's the only language they will listen to.

[00:33:48]>> So that's just my I I'm not trying to, you know, pick a side or, you know, or anything. I'm just saying I'm really hopeful that's the reason you did that.

[00:33:56]>> Right. Right. Well, you know, I think what the church is teaching here is that, you know, if we go into a war and it's going to kill, you know, uh, 90% of the human population because nuclear war is going to happen and whatnot, that doesn't justify doing what would be done. In other words, the an evil means cannot justify a good end.

[00:34:19]>> So, he said it, but he didn't do it.

[00:34:21]>> Right. Yeah.

[00:34:22]>> Right. And so, >> and again, it could very well be that that's the lang the only language this level evil listens to. But go ahead.

[00:34:30]>> Right. So, my question is this. When Pope Leo um said that God doesn't answer the prayers of those who wage war, he's right, but he forgot one word, who wage an unjust war.

[00:34:47]>> Unjust war.

[00:34:48]So I I support both of them in the fact that that that Leo really is standing for what's right and that is to preserve human life um and to protect innocent people which are always a casualty of war. They can't be the intent. It can never be the intent to kill somebody but they are sometimes unintentionally a casualty. And what he is saying is that this is this is unfortunate. And if you're out just to wage war because you want to take over um you know lands and property and money and this is another thing I I disagree with Trump is because he's saying we want their oil. We want their oil. Well, that can't be the primary reason. That can't be, you know, that can't be. It could be a side effect because you want to keep it away from the evil of China.

[00:35:46]>> Does he really said that? I don't I didn't catch that part because I I've been hearing we don't need his oil.

[00:35:50]Everybody else does.

[00:35:52]>> Yeah. No, I'm talking about Brazil. I'm sorry.

[00:35:54]>> All Brazil. Got it.

[00:35:55]>> I should have I should have clarified that when he said we want the oil of Brazil. So, thank you actually, father, for clarifying that. Um, so here's the case or or here's the way that I look at it is if Pope Leo just simply would have added the word unjust that God does not hear the prayers of the those who wage unjust wars for unjust reasoning, then he's right. This is something that we >> that we want to be part of. However, the Bible has plenty of examples of God not only supporting those in war, but granting them grace. Look at David. Look at Joshua. Look at others that God supported and actually commanded to go to war.

[00:36:45]>> I mean, this is biblical. So, I think there has to be a clarification of Pope Leo's words. Not not that I'm saying, oh, that he's a horrible person for saying this. No, I know in my heart what he meant and and he meant the right thing, but I just think it could benefit some clarification that not all war is evil and unjust. Some is necessary. Now, I'm not a point yet where I'm claiming this war is needed and necessary or even just, but the Catholic World Report and others have come out now saying where are any of those principles of the just war theory violated in this war?

[00:37:33]Where where are any of them violated? It seems one, there's grave and lasting damage. Two, there is um been attempts to find peace and to negotiate. Those have been rejected. Uh three, there is a high prospect probability of victory.

[00:37:54]And four, um the means we hope are not so evil that they don't justify the ends. So, I'm open to hearing anybody tell me which of these are violated. I I I I I I just I'm I'm just posing the question. Um, I'm not I'm not calling for war or necessarily saying that that that we want this, but at the same time, when I see 30,000 people dying that were willing to risk their lives because it's something they believe so hard in, which was let's overthrow this evil regime and let's go back to our our roots, which is not Islamic, um, but back to our real heritage.

[00:38:38]I mean, can you argue that this is necessarily a horrible war criminal um godforsaken um against God will God's will event. I I I I guess I don't totally see it that way.

[00:38:55]>> Yeah, I' I'd add to that too, father, that the fact that we've had pre past presidents in recent years tried to pay off the regime. I mean, the money that was given, billions of dollars given to Iran, uh, that was another attempt to try to keep them, I guess, contained from getting nuclear weapons and such.

[00:39:11]And that whole debate, I know we'll go on and on, but I think you you pointed out some excellent things there regarding the way the people are being treated there right now and have been recently. Add to that that it was Pope St. Pius the 5th who initiated going to Don Juan of Austria, the whole battle of Leanto. So this was a pope who is a saint who went to Don Juan of Austria and said I need an army raised up to do battle with the Muslims uh in that famous battle of Leonto. Um >> yeah, >> you know, Doug, um uh several hundred years before that, Pope Urban II, uh in his speech at Claremont called for the Crusades.

[00:39:51]>> And you know, a lot of people will criticize the church ruthlessly for the Crusades and the Inquisition.

[00:39:59]Well, for my little small part, I've done my best to try to again bring truth. And the truth of the matter was, do you know that the crusades weren't called to the vast majority of Christendom had already been lost at the hands of Islam? And the pope was saying, "If we don't do something, Christianom will disappear. Christianity will disappear." Um, pilgrims were being beheaded uh in Jerusalem trying to go to the Holy Land. So the whole crusades started as a self-defense mechanism against the attacks of trying um to defend uh Christian pilgrims in the holy land and it was because Islam had already conquered and taken so much of Christian lands. You know look at the Middle East today which is mostly all Muslim that was all Christian >> that was all Christian and so um that's a misconception. Same with the Inquisition. You know, everybody writes me um how evil the Catholic Church is and and how many millions. You know, I gotta laugh, Father Richard, because you've pointed these things out before, too, when people are, you know, the truth is just so skewed. You know, I had several people somewhere this number 95 million got out there. I I don't know how, but people are hanging on this fact that the church killed 95 million people during the Inquisition. You know what's funny about that? The entire population of Europe wasn't even 95 million at the time of the Inquisition. There was there wasn't even 95 million people in Europe at that time. And so >> news even back then.

[00:41:42]>> Yeah. It's it's impossible that the church killed these types of people. So again, we got to go back to the truth.

[00:41:50]Otherwise, there's going to be division because people hate what they think is the Catholic Church.

[00:41:56]>> Father, I know you're a big supporter of of Bishop Sheen, Archbishop Fton Sheen.

[00:42:01]>> Oh, yeah.

[00:42:01]>> He he had one of my favorite all-time quotes. He said, "Millions of people hate what they think is the Catholic Church."

[00:42:11]>> Yeah.

[00:42:12]>> But very few, if any, hate what is actually the Catholic Church.

[00:42:18]>> Right. And what a fabulous statement. So how do we bring this unity stop the ad hominemum attacks to get our own house in order uh within the Catholic ranks where we have a lot of division as you said but get our own prelets and and our own church hierarchy and our priests and our bishops on the same page of Catholic church teaching. If that's the case we can become united and then we are a witness to the rest of the world.

[00:42:48]Catholic uh 1.2 billion of us if we actually stood united could change the entire world and unite uh a lot of the world. Can I ask you real quick? Uh, this I think it's an important point to to bring up for people is what are Catholics bound to have to believe when the pope speaks because there is that constant the pope said it and around the dinner table, don't you follow your pope? Well, there's there's his thoughts, there's his opinions, there's his writings, and then there's faith and morals and actual infallible things that must be must be followed.

[00:43:22]>> Yeah. Let me use one quick example. I got some hate mail that you can't believe because I made this public statement that I was going to continue to use the word co-redemptric and co-mediatric and I got some vicious hate mail saying how dare you be disobedient to the hope pope you heretic.

[00:43:40]>> Now first of all let's clarify this. Um when Fernandez of the Tecastry issued this, he later came out with a clarification that the term is not to be used in official church documents, >> but it was no way, shape or form banning the use of the term or even discussions about the term. It was not to be used that that Tastry said in the utilization of official church documents and church teaching. I can use it if I wish and I personally chose to use it because we know that we are not putting Mary equal to Jesus. Co- redeemer doesn't mean she's equal to Jesus. In the English co- has a different meaning than it does in the Latin. Kum cu m does not mean equal to. It means with. And Mary was with Jesus in his entire life and his works of redemption. And so she provided his human nature, his flesh, his blood. She is with God in this act of redemption.

[00:44:46]So she is co- in that sense. John Paul called us all many co-redeemers when we are on the cross and we share in the suffering of Christ. We are many co-redeemers. That scares any non-atholic Christian. But here's the answer, Doug, that you point out. No, we are not in a moral obligation to have to follow every single word that the Holy Father says. Now, before people get upset, let's explain.

[00:45:18]The church has taught forever in in in in its existence that the infallibility of the pope first applies to faith and morals only, not to things necessarily outside of that. Whether you agree a wall should be built or not be built doesn't fall under that. Okay. And when the when the pope speaks ex cathedral from the chair then in unison with his college of bishops and it be declared.

[00:45:47]So ex cathedral meaning it's declared infallible such as the assumption in 1950 the immaculate conception in 1854.

[00:45:56]um then yes there is no argument there is no disagreement but whether to build a wall or whether or not you agree with what's going on in this just war or not just war um this is not infallible teaching because some Catholic uh leadership has taken the side that immigration should be open borders and others have chosen to say it should not be open borders. You can disagree. Um, if the pope said there should not be a wall and you personally feel, well, my daughter was murdered by by an illegal immigrant and raped and murdered, you you have the ability to disagree with that because it's not declared infallibly spoken and it's it's ex Cathedral or not ex Cathedral. And so, we have to clarify this. And I'm glad you brought it up because there's a big misunderstanding that you amongst if you're Catholic, you you you think the pope is is is is God. No, he's in persona. He's Christ's vicer. He's in persona of Christ. But he's not above the magisterium, the teaching of the church and sacred scripture. He supports it, teaches it, promulgates it, and explains it. Even it on the topic of immigration, we don't necessarily have to all have the same opinion. Um, immigration, you know, there's a lot of people are saying, "Oh, to be Christian, you have to have wide open borders."

[00:47:23]Bishop Burbage, uh, from the Carolinas did a great job. And he stated that no, the church does not say we are to have wide open borders. In fact, let me read you his exact quote. He said, 'The church does not support open borders, but rather a common sense approach where the duty to care for the stranger is practiced in harmony with the duty to care for the nation and its people. Wow, what a great comment and quote that really to me opens up the bigger picture on immigration. Not just we're being harsh because we may question it, but rather we're being um faithful to really uh the nation and its citizens as well as uh people coming into the nation.

[00:48:10]>> I think all of us are in favor of immigration but legal immigration.

[00:48:15]Exactly. You know, so that we can know who's coming across and you know, so Father, this has been amazing. Such clarity, such charity. Uh we're so grateful. I I've learned so much and I I pray everybody that listens to this does as well. Father, could you uh close us with a little prayer and a blessing?

[00:48:35]>> Yes. And thank you guys for being uh the the the spokespersons of the truth and and bringing people together. This is what brings people together. God bless you both.

[00:48:46]>> And through the intercession of St. Fina, Mary, and all the saints and through the passion, death, and resurrection of our Lord Jesus Christ.

[00:48:53]May Almighty God bless you, bless the the people who are watching, and most of all, may grace for us be the conduit of grace to all of the world. And we bless you, the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit. Amen.

[00:49:09]>> Amen.

[00:49:10]>> Awesome.

[00:49:10]>> Awesome, Father.

[00:49:11]>> Thank you, Father. This is great.

[00:49:12]>> Thank you, guys.