Chris Watts' Latest Excuse Is Hard To Believe! M****R x4 to MANSLAUGHTER! THERE'S NO WAY!

Hinzugefügt: 2026-05-30

[00:00:04]What's up, guys? It's your boy Awoki back at another, of course, Chris Watts, Nicole Kessinger video. And by popular demand, which you guys have been asking for nonstop, is asking about the Nancy uh Grace uh information on Chris Watts where killer dad Chris Watts gender reveal party is what made him a killer.

[00:00:29]I'm definitely intrigued about this video and statement itself. Um, mostly because how is the gender party the one that made him the killer? Is it like the turning point? A lot of people have just changed their ideas of where the turning point was. Was it NK? Was it the gender reveal? Was it Nutgate? Was it whatever?

[00:00:53]We're gonna watch this video and see what more we can watch because you guys have been blowing up my inbox saying you gotta watch it. You gotta watch it and it came out nine days ago. I didn't want to watch it right away because I was kind of like why would this? So, we're going to watch it anyways. Um, grab a chair and get comfortable. Also, don't forget to subscribe to my YouTube channel by hitting that wiper icon that says subscribe. hit the bell icon next to it so when I do post videos like this one, you guys will get that little ring notification that I've posted that video and then you guys can watch, comment, like, and share. And again, thank you guys so very much for the love and support that you guys do show on my channel. I can't thank you guys enough.

[00:01:30]Go over to Nancy Grace. I know there's not going to be a lot of pe or there's going to be people I don't like Nancy Gra. Okay, I understand that there's people that don't like me and there's people that don't like um little Debbie Ho Hos, but we're still going to watch it. Or they don't like Christ, we're still going to watch it because some people do. If you don't want to watch it, we're not telling you you have to watch it, but we're going to watch it together and react like we're sitting on the couch. So, without further ado, let's get into the video.

[00:02:03]Does a gender reveal party push killer dad Chris Watts to murder his pregnant wife Shannan and his two little girls Bella and Celeste? Is that what set him off? That's no defense. I was going to have a gender reveal party. So my only choice was to >> to murder my family.

[00:02:21]>> Annihilate my entire family. Good evening. I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. I want to thank you for being with us.

[00:02:30]>> I'm here to watch I'm definitely in intrigued.

[00:02:36]>> I'm calling because I'm concerned about um a friend of mine.

[00:02:39]>> You have to trust me.

[00:02:40]>> I did nothing to them and to my beautiful wife.

[00:02:43]>> You have to trust me.

[00:02:45]Just like when NK says, "Do you trust me?" Validation. I'm looking at you. Oh no. Dang it.

[00:02:52]>> I did nothing to her.

[00:02:53]>> But she won't answer the door. She won't answer phone calls. She won't answer text messages. The amount of love I have for my family is exponential. It's never going to die.

[00:03:03]>> Wow. He chose that word. It's never going to die. Well, it's already has.

[00:03:07]>> My daddy is my >> I had nothing to do with the disappearance.

[00:03:14]>> My daddy is a hero. He helps me grow up strong. He helped me um snuggle, too.

[00:03:26]He reads me books. He tied my shoes.

[00:03:31]If you're a hero, flew and blue. My daddy daddy love you.

[00:03:40]>> Bella and Celeste dead, their bodies shoved into >> and those videos that I have like that of my kids and stuff. I watch them almost every every other day. I'd watch them more if I can remember, but half the time it seems like my memor is gone.

[00:03:54]half the time. But I just love when my kids do that and then seeing Bella do that with her dad and and what he did in reciprocation to her >> to these thin cylindrical oil containers out in the middle of Anadarko oil fields where Chris Watts killer dad worked.

[00:04:15]Tonight we are learning more about what pushed killer dad Chris Watts >> and it got up to 102 degrees.

[00:04:23]102 degrees >> over the edge a gender reveal party.

[00:04:32]This is we also learned that Shannan struggled to get pregnant. She had a rare disease that seemingly precluded her from ever getting pregnant >> that people think it's fake >> again. And then after a long struggle, she conceives. Then just after the gender reveal party invites go out, suddenly we find we uncover texts from Shannan Watts to her friend. Let's see the text where she describes how her husband, so-called killer dad Chris Watts, no longer wants the baby. I haven't slept most of the week. My eyes burn from crying so much. I cancelled the gender reveal. Nikki is going to tell me today the gender of the baby. I need happy news right now.

[00:05:28]I said to him, "How is this a few months? We were so intimate and what I thought in love when I left." He said he had a lot of time to think. This >> that dude had a lot of time to bone another woman is what happened.

[00:05:44]>> Baby in my belly deserves his full love.

[00:05:47]Either way, he came in the room and said, "You think it would be a great thing to have another baby?

[00:05:57]We talked it out a lot beforehand, and we agreed to do this. You were so excited and happy." The friend says, "I think he'll come to his senses and feel like an ass in a few months."

[00:06:09]Shannan, I grabbed his hand during the ultrasound and he didn't grab back. The friend sends a crying emoji.

[00:06:17]Shannan, I cringed. He rejected sex the night we arrived here. Only thing I can think of, even though I don't think he has it in him, is another girl.

[00:06:30]>> Fortunately, he did.

[00:06:30]>> Chris told me last night he's scared to death about this third baby. And he's happy with just Bella and Celeste and doesn't want another baby.

[00:06:40]>> He wanted the baby.

[00:06:41]>> He says just he loves the kids. Did he say he loves you? No. He asked me if the kids could go see his parents. I said, "No, I'm standing my ground. They haven't made contact in four weeks. No show to her birthday party."

[00:06:55]>> These texts are heartbreaking.

[00:06:58]We have also managed.

[00:07:00]>> They literally punished Celeste because of the argument.

[00:07:06]>> Put your differences aside and go see your granddaughter.

[00:07:11]Forgiveness is very key. And for us Christians, which they do say that they are, forgiveness is key.

[00:07:23]I didn't see that here >> to dig up her little party that she had planned. And to Cherylyn Kadel joining me, author of a brand new book, Christopher Watts, a failed life. She interviewed Watts Adnausium. I don't know how you >> Oh, there's a new one.

[00:07:44]>> You did that. You must have held your nose. Still in contact with him. Her other book, The Murders of Christopher Watts and the Many Faces of Christopher Watts. You know, Cheryl, thank you so much for being with us tonight.

[00:08:00]>> Sure.

[00:08:01]>> I am looking over her receipts and it's breaking my heart. She had the whole party arranged >> and she canled.

[00:08:09]>> She went to Whole Foods. She had edible arrangements. You know what those are?

[00:08:14]That's when they put like fruit on a stick in little shapes.

[00:08:19]>> I did that for myself. I'll actually show you the picture. So, this is the one that I made when my son was being born.

[00:08:30]There we go.

[00:08:33]I made little little baby inside there with the fruit. And then, of course, my little guy I'm so proud. That was one of the most proudest moments of my life, becoming a father.

[00:08:48]>> She had already bought the flower arrangements at Longmont Florest. I'm looking at her receipts right now. She went to Party City and bought all the decorations. Oh my gosh.

[00:09:00]>> She bought fruit and cheese and all sorts. And then those people that hate her that are like, "How dare she spend $6 at Starbucks? Oh my gosh." Or $12 at Netflix. The food at Costco.

[00:09:16]It just I don't know. It's It just hurts to see how excited she was. And in her excitement, her excitement about the gender reveal party and she'd already bought everything for it. And then he says he doesn't want the baby.

[00:09:35]>> What happened?

[00:09:37]>> Well, partially what happened is his girlfriend, he felt like he wanted another life. He was happy when Shenan left. And that's about the time he started talking with his girlfriend Nikki. And um by the time they had six weeks to spend together, he didn't want his family anymore.

[00:10:01]Just think if they never had that six weeks.

[00:10:06]If they didn't have that, they would have I don't think they would have been able to do this because he wouldn't have been able to stay over and sleep with her. I mean, she would they still would have been able to tell. Boink boink boink boink, but um just not as intimate as he probably would want.

[00:10:24]>> It was uh it turned into >> Hold on just a minute. Let me understand this. You said >> he said the whole month of July he lived with her.

[00:10:31]>> When Shannan left, where did Shannan go?

[00:10:34]Cherylyn Kadel, >> she went to North Carolina to visit her family >> and his family.

[00:10:41]>> Um, just to spend some summer time with them, take the girls for a few >> Cherylyn kind of sounds sick. I hope she's okay.

[00:10:48]>> Weeks and spend time with the grandparents. Um, it was very innocent.

[00:10:54]>> Okay, let me understand this too. Dr. Gerilyn Utter joining us. Clinical psychologist specializing in psychological evaluations within the justice system, author of Mainlining Philly, author of Aftershock: How Past Events Shake Up Your Life Today, and producer of utter nonsense, a documentary. Dr. Gerland, thanks for being with us. So, >> she takes the children, Shannan takes the children for a vacation.

[00:11:22]She's back in a few weeks and in a few weeks time he's completely forgotten about the family and wants to be with his lover >> and his kids >> and wants to get rid of the baby.

[00:11:34]>> Yeah. I mean, I know it sounds outrageous. You would think most people would just opt for something called divorce or separation, but it's clear that there was what we call like a >> See, I was so happy I made a cake.

[00:11:48]>> I know it's not about me. Sorry.

[00:11:49]psychological um detachment. So he had been over that six week period fantasizing about this new life with this new woman. And what happens a lot of times or in this particular case is he started to look at his family more or less as an obstacle um and not as something that he wanted to be a part of anymore. He was completely entrenched in this fantasy life. And as time progressed, he became more resentful um of the fact that he had a family and he started to compartmentalize. So you start to separate the two worlds and the one world was his previous family and now this new world is this woman and this relationship and that's what he wanted. So, you know, as you read the text messages, him refusing to hold her hand, him refusing to give her a hug, it's very clear that he started to literally emotionally and psychologically detach from the relationship because he was focused on being with this other woman.

[00:12:48]>> Compartmentalize.

[00:12:50]I don't know, Dr. Gilen Utter, you make it sound so normal. He compartmentalized, >> right?

[00:12:56]>> It seems to me like he cheated on his wife and wanted her to get rid of the baby. baby Nico, their first baby boy.

[00:13:03]>> He asked her for a couple times of an abortion.

[00:13:09]He did. I'm finding this out just recently.

[00:13:14]>> Absolutely he did. And but when I say this, I'm not saying it I'm not saying it casually and I don't want to come off as thinking that, you know, psychology explains this. I mean, Chris Watts is clearly a very disturbed individual. I don't want to take away from that. what he did is not the norm. But when you analyze his behavior, and I'm sure you know, Cheryl knows this more than more than anyone, that's exactly what he did.

[00:13:37]In his mind, in his psyche, he separated he separated his one life that he had that he didn't want anymore and went in this direction and completely emotionally detached from the family, which provided him the opportunity to engage in such a violent act. Again, Chris Watts, as far as I know and I've studied, was not an outwardly violent individual. This was something that was clearly premeditated because they were an obstacle. They were no longer a family. He >> and because of NK, I don't care how you look at this or not. Oh, she was just in the picture. She There's nothing wrong with her. How can you say that? She would It's like saying, "Oh, the gun the gun is the thing that kill or the How do you say this? The guy that murdered the people did it with a weapon.

[00:14:31]Chris is the weapon.

[00:14:34]Nicole is the trigger.

[00:14:37]You can't just blame the weapon. You have to play blame the thing that's pulling the trigger.

[00:14:43]>> Wanted to get rid of them. And that's exactly what he started to do emotionally in order to be able to, you know, complete such a heinous act.

[00:15:02]>> Squeaky.

[00:15:06]That day, >> that day he said he talked to Nicole Kessinger for a couple hours um before he got home because he got off early.

[00:15:14]So, he spent time with no Enk and then he came here and found out he was going to have another child.

[00:15:24]>> Really?

[00:15:25]>> Really?

[00:15:26]>> That's awesome.

[00:15:29]So, pink means >> that's just the test.

[00:15:31]>> I know they're just the pink is going to be girls.

[00:15:34]>> I don't know.

[00:15:36]Just a test.

[00:15:37]>> That's awesome.

[00:15:42]>> That sure sounded half-hearted. That's awesome. Okay, straight out to Dave Mack. Dave Mack joining me, Crime Stories investigative reporter. We are now learning.

[00:15:53]>> Man, she's got so many people coming on today about claims that a gender reveal party pushed killer dad Chris Watts over the edge. Like, is that some type of a defense? I didn't want the gender reveal party. I couldn't take the stress. So, my only alternative was to kill my wife.

[00:16:11]And >> there was no gender reveal. She canceled it. So, why would he kill his family, >> children?

[00:16:19]You know, Nancy, at this point, everything that comes out of that man's mouth is just ridiculous. But yeah, that is what is being suggested now is that, think about it, Nancy, on August 7th.

[00:16:31]August 7. Shannan is so excited about the gender reveal party and finding out the gender of the baby that she spends $860 on party supplies, the cake, cookies, all of this. That's a lot of money for a gender reveal party.

[00:16:45]>> Yeah.

[00:16:46]>> But Nancy, >> I spent $100.

[00:16:51]>> That's August 7th, the very next day.

[00:16:55]>> But I made it worth my while. I cooked the food myself. I did all of it.

[00:17:00]She cancels the party. They had 50 people in that were already invited. She disinvited them the very next day. Not even 24 hours after buying all of this stuff. She cancels the gender reveal party.

[00:17:14]>> So what took place on August the 7th into August the 8th. Not to get go any other direction, but I know there's been people that have been messaging me or writing in the comments and they're like, "Taboki, where are you getting your information from? Where are you getting?" Well, first of all, if you would watch the entire video, you would see in the description where the video is actually from. And they're like, "Oh, she didn't have or um they had a a what was it? a car uh payment, insurance payment.

[00:17:52]Well, first of all, she said herself that the money that she got from Thrive paid for the car and the insurance and the gas.

[00:18:04]But anyways, why does that matter? Oh, she spends too much. Okay, but why are we allowing this to be a reason why she was murdered?

[00:18:16]Well, she was just so overbearing. That doesn't give you the reason to to kill somebody. Divorce, maybe. But they're they're they're like trying to validate her death. Well, she spent so much money. She barely worked. She was at home all the time doing her Thrive. Shut up. You guys do worse things at home.

[00:18:39]You think she's supposed to be perfect?

[00:18:42]I don't understand why people so judge others online, but yet you can't look at yourself in the mirror and worry about yourself. And then, oh, Zoki, why don't you worry about yourself? I do, but I also want to find the justice in this case, which is bringing ENK into an interrogation properly.

[00:19:03]The amount of comments I get sometimes are just flabbergasting.

[00:19:08]Like it's like what?

[00:19:12]Well, apparently that's where Chris Watts decided I don't want another baby.

[00:19:18]I'm good with Celeste and Bella. The shocking truth, Nancy, is that we know what took place after the fact, but all I'm picturing in my head every time we do this is Little Bella singing the hero song and what he does to his wife and his girl.

[00:19:34]>> You want us to shut up about this case?

[00:19:36]Talk to NK the proper way and do your damn job the right way.

[00:19:41]>> In real time August 7th and 8th through the 13th.

[00:19:46]>> My daddy is a hero. He helps me grow up strong. He helped me um snuggle too.

[00:19:58]He reads me books. He ties my shoes.

[00:20:03]If you're a hero flew and blue my daddy daddy I love you.

[00:20:13]>> I mean Cherylyn Kel the embarrassment that Shenan >> she would have went so far in life if she was still here. She was a smart little girl. She would have done she could have been a doctor. She could have been a veterary. What I mean this little girl knew so much at her age.

[00:20:34]must have suffered when she has to call all her friends and call off the gender reveal. And then people wanted to know why.

[00:20:41]>> I'm sure she was embarrassed, but honestly, I think Shenan was just totally blindsided.

[00:20:47]>> And you can't return that kind of stuff.

[00:20:49]Some of that you can't return. And then the people in the comments that I've seen on this, well, maybe she should spend. I guarantee you guys are some of you have spent worse at the freaking casino.

[00:21:01]Oh, Shannan did this, but I'm I'm sitting there on my probably phone wasting money. And then you were wondering about or Shannan spending money >> that something had really changed in her husband. I mean, when she was away at her parents towards the end of that time, >> she would try to call Christopher and she couldn't get a hold of him. She felt something was wrong. By this time, she was four months pregnant. um had gotten through a lot of morning sickness, was starting to feel better, was happy to come home and spend time with him. And all that while he was literally planning in his head what he could do to get rid of them. And I I wanted to say one thing, not to blame his girlfriend. This is not what I mean. But about a week before Shannan came home, he had his girlfriend to his house and they were talking about having a family someday. And she told him, "I want to have your first son." And I think that had a lot to do with in his head why he all of a sudden didn't want the son he had coming. Um, if it had been another girl, he >> he didn't want the son because he wanted the son with NK.

[00:22:16]>> Might have been different. He also had been told by his family that um he didn't need another one. It was too much.

[00:22:26]It >> He's the one that wanted the dang kid. I mean, Shannan loved the idea of having another kid. She loved her kids. I don't know where people get off. Oh, she did some weird uh stuff uh healthwise.

[00:22:42]What? Like, and they don't have anything to back it up. Oh, she did this and she did that. Do you know how many kids nowadays have health problems?

[00:22:52]So many. Of all the crap that they keep pumping into these kids nowadays when they first are born and oh, they need this, they need this, they need this. I mean, people back in the day were living a lot longer, hundreds of years, and now with all this crap that they put in us.

[00:23:09]Oh, it's just it's natural selection.

[00:23:12]It's population control. It's it's I'm sorry, but I I don't get when I get the flu or this is just my my uh my stance on like the flu. I haven't had the flu shot since I've been out of the military.

[00:23:28]I had to in the military because I was owner or owner or um government property.

[00:23:36]But ever since I stopped, I very rarely get the flu. And when I do get the flu, it's not as intense as it used to be.

[00:23:46]When I got the flu shot, I was sicker than ever when I got the flu.

[00:23:53]And now these kids get sick. Not these ones or at the moment, but like some of the kids in the high schools and grade schools, they're gone for days, weeks because of all the crap that's being pumped into them and everything. Who knows? I mean, little Celeste had uh allergic to tree nuts. Oh, it's just it's just a phase. No, it's not a phase.

[00:24:18]Are you going to say that about beastings, too? People can go to analactic shock, have seizures, and die.

[00:24:27]She was protecting her cubs. Oh, how dare she. Oh my god. Like, I I I just don't get the evil people that talk about her like that. I just And then, oh, Zaboki is obsessed with her.

[00:24:42]What? Do you see what I'm obsessed with?

[00:24:46]Do you see all the toys that are in my room that I've collected over the past how many years? Do you see Shannan in my room? No.

[00:24:53]>> That he didn't really want >> What do you mean he didn't need another one? It's too much. If he was thinking of having a baby with his mistress, well, then that's a third baby. So, that doesn't make sense. Oh, hold on just a moment. You said >> an idiot.

[00:25:10]>> I don't want to blame the girlfriend.

[00:25:12]Let me understand something. Cherylyn Kadel, didn't the other girlfriend know he was married with two children?

[00:25:18]>> She did. Absolutely.

[00:25:20]>> Yep.

[00:25:20]>> But she was also being told >> it's the problem with blaming her.

[00:25:25]>> Well, according to her, which I think that she's pretty naive to not realize that's probably what every man tells a woman when he's having an affair with her. But according >> to Christopher, he had told her that they were getting separated and probably divorced. So he also told his girlfriend that he was living in the basement that when he was home he would take care of the children then he would go down.

[00:25:52]>> The reason why the bed was down there in the first place is because the ruseex were there for 15 months >> on the stairs to sleep and that did happen a couple of times I think but that's not how things really were. So it it's a definitely to me it's a mix of her pulling him because she was she was pulling him to her and I don't believe she meant for him to kill his family but I think she said get rid of Shenan get rid of the family and and come with me.

[00:26:21]I don't think she meant kill them. I think she probably meant leave.

[00:26:25]>> It's still with interpretation though.

[00:26:27]She said get rid of them.

[00:26:31]I still think she should be charged.

[00:26:35]I I she is the trigger >> them, but he's very simpleminded when it comes to things like this. Um he's been used to doing whatever the women in his life tell him to do. It's like he couldn't think of his own.

[00:26:50]>> He's a yes man.

[00:26:51]>> And I know that sounds like excuses.

[00:26:53]>> That's starting to sound like it's the women in his life's fault. And it's not.

[00:26:57]It's his fault. You spoke you've spoken so many hours with so-called killer dad Chris Watts. And it's my understanding he >> she's looked right into his face.

[00:27:08]>> Explain to you about a big argument they had right before she went on the trip.

[00:27:15]>> Uh yes, that they had Shen Well, it was right when she came home from the trip, I think. Um, I have to look back at my letters, but she uh had s suspected that something was going on. And he walked up to the bedroom. Uh, they got into an argument and she said, "I hope whoever this is, they're worth it. You've got beautiful children. We have another one on the way. And now this, you know what's going on? I hope that they're worth it." And she took a pillow and shoved it at Aim and said, "Get out. Get out of the room." And so he went downstairs and got on the phone with his girlfriend. So um it it just he had no intentions of staying with Shannan. Why he didn't choose the separation or divorce. I don't know.

[00:28:04]I don't know why that is. He blames it on a lot of different things when you talk. I want to get back to the new theories if somehow again is all Shannan Bella and Celeste's fault that he murdered them to Dave Mack. The preparations for the gender reveal party.

[00:28:25]Now theories emerging that that pushed him over the edge. That is not a motive for murder. Tell me about the receipts that you have reviewed.

[00:28:36]Well, Nancy, the receipts for this gender reveal party show that Shannon Watts was really planning a big day.

[00:28:44]Again, remember we got 50 people coming.

[00:28:46]A custom cake has been ordered. Cookie arrangements made in specific arrangements of cookies so that it'd be just that much more exciting. You've got the flowers. She ordered very specific flowers to be spread throughout this party area. Decorations, supplies. She purchases food for all of the guests.

[00:29:07]The party was planned for August 19th at the Watts family home there in Frederick, Colorado. But Nancy, again, remember the dates here. August 7th, Shannan is spending $860 on all of this stuff for this reveal party. She's stoked, man. Let's go through all the stuff when he went to uh um the sand dunes. Let's look at the list when they were go and he was spending at different other places um at like gas stations. He wasn't always using gift cards. He was also using his the credit card >> and this is their third child.

[00:29:47]>> He doesn't know that this baby is going to be a boy. They don't know that.

[00:29:51]That's what the gender reveal party is all about. It's on August the 7th when after she's gone through all of this that Chris Watt says, "I don't want another baby." And that's when she starts putting everything together and within a 24-hour period, it goes from I'm having a gender reveal party. We're no no party, no nothing. This is over.

[00:30:11]That's a huge, huge turnaround.

[00:30:14]>> Slap in the face.

[00:30:15]>> Because I'm concerned about um a friend of mine. Um, I dropped her off at her house at 2:00 in the morning last night cuz we were out of town together and we were on the way back from the airport and um, is having issues and she's pregnant and I haven't been able to get a hold of her this morning and I've gone to her house and her car is there and stuff like that, but she won't answer the door. She won't answer phone calls.

[00:30:37]She won't answer text messages. And I'm just really, really concerned. And she had a doctor's appointment this morning and she didn't go to it. And I'm just I don't know what to do. I've called him and talked to him and he said that she went on a play date with her other two daughters, but like if she went on a play date, they're both in car seats.

[00:30:53]Why would she not take her car?

[00:30:56]>> Yep.

[00:31:01]>> She heard him.

[00:31:02]>> No, she didn't.

[00:31:05]>> Thick son of a b word. going out her but they leave after that for a long time >> being told by your >> she she started her games.

[00:31:26]>> Okay. So Dave Mack there he is blaming Shannan for the murders the disappearances of Bella and Celeste. Did you hear that? She hurt them. Then I freaked out on her. And then the detective says, "Okay, well then where are your girls? Did they leave?" I mean, they're what, two and three years old.

[00:31:48]Did they leave after that? And then Watch just shrugs. He, even after murdering her, is blaming her. First, it's the gender reveal party's fault.

[00:32:01]Now she's the one that hurt.

[00:32:04]>> I'm surprised he's not blaming the the mom of Sandra or not Sandra uh Shannan.

[00:32:10]Sandra >> hurt the children.

[00:32:14]>> It is the most ridiculous blame game.

[00:32:17]But Chris Watts has never taken any kind of responsibility for anything he's done. Nancy, it's always blame the girls. Blame Shannan. He even goes so far as later on blaming the girlfriend.

[00:32:28]So yeah, he's blaming this murder that took place. He's blaming uh by claiming that Shannet claiming that the wife he murdered carrying a 15-week old baby in her belly is that she was abusive towards the girls and that's why he had to take her out. It was all her fault.

[00:32:48]Boggles the mind that he could even say that out loud. So, let me just follow through Chris Watts's claims that Shannan is really the guilty party again.

[00:33:01]So, is he claiming that Shannan tried to hurt the girls so he attacked Shannan then? How did two little girls >> to make him look like the hero?

[00:33:12]>> Bella and Celeste, ages two and three, end up stuffed down oil.

[00:33:19]>> Exactly. cylinders in the oil fields of Anna Darko where he Chris Watts worked >> cuz he's disgusting.

[00:33:30]>> Are they in the tanks?

[00:33:33]>> Can somebody who doesn't know what they're doing open those?

[00:33:36]>> Okay, it's easy to open.

[00:33:37]>> What's in the tanks?

[00:33:39]>> It's a mixture of oil and water.

[00:33:48]>> A sheet found down here. Mhm.

[00:33:50]>> What was that from?

[00:33:52]>> That was what Chanel was wrapped in.

[00:33:55]>> What about the girls? What were they wrapped in?

[00:33:58]>> Pajamas.

[00:33:59]>> Just in their pajamas.

[00:34:02]Their blankets or anything?

[00:34:04]>> No, cuz he threw them away.

[00:34:06]>> Where did their blankets and toys and stuff go?

[00:34:10]>> Probably flew away in the wind or something right here.

[00:34:14]straight out to a veteran and renowned chief medical examiner joining us tonight. Dr. Kendall Crowns.

[00:34:22]>> Dr. Kendall Crowns is the, as I said, chief medical examiner in Tarant County.

[00:34:28]He is an esteemed lecturer at the Bernett School of Medicine at TCU.

[00:34:32]>> He looks super serious. He's like walked in.

[00:34:35]>> He is the star of a hit new podcast, Mayhem in the morg. Dr. Kendall Crowns.

[00:34:41]All of this because of a gender reveal party that pushed him over the edge to a triple murder of his wife, his two little children, and the unborn baby boy, Nico. Describe what happened to the little girls.

[00:35:00]>> So, each little girl, uh, the older one is Bella, the younger one is Celeste.

[00:35:06]Uh, they appear to have been smothered.

[00:35:09]Bella, the younger one, I think, was smothered second. She actually has more injuries to her inside of her mouth. Uh, she bites her tongue. She bites the sides of her cheek. I think it's because she saw her sister be smothered by her father first and she knew what was coming, so she struggled more. Usually with smothering cases when you have an adult and a child, they'll pinch the nose and cover the mouth or just cover the mouth and nose all at once and then hold the pressure there and the child will suffocate from lack of oxygen within a couple of minutes. And then once they were dead, he then shoved them into the oil tanker and each child has abrasions on their body from actually being shoved through this small opening in the oil tanker and it kind of tearing or rubbing the skin as he's pushing them down. So, it probably wasn't easy for him to shove them into the oil tanker as well.

[00:36:01]>> And he caused damage to their bodies after he had killed them.

[00:36:04]>> What do you mean? He caused damage to their bodies after he killed them.

[00:36:09]>> Well, when he's pushing them through that small hole, their bodies probably weren't fitting really well. And then as they were pushing through the metal of that opening, it caused scraping and abrasions of the skin. But it happened after death. So, they get this kind of tan yellow appearance on them. Uh, and that's from the body being dead, hearts no longer beating, and it's pushing up against something as it's being shoved through that hole.

[00:36:34]>> I find this photo, while accurate, to be a little misleading, Dr. Kendall Crowns, if you look at it, it looks much bigger than it is because >> it was not wide enough to put the girls in >> because they were about nine inches. So he had to literally stuff them in there >> and they're even vertically and it tore the skin off of their arms as he shoved them down into it.

[00:37:05]>> I agree with you. Even in this picture, it looks like it's got an 8 in diameter.

[00:37:09]So that the even the the large >> not even look at I mean it's like seven and 3/4 >> child the older child was probably harder to fit through. He probably had to manipulate the arms in some way and then push or even stick his foot on top of the child's head as he's pushing the child through that hole. It it it wasn't going to be an easy process to shove them in there.

[00:37:35]>> What happened to Shannan? Dr. Kendall Crowns. Uh, so the children were smothered, which is basically hands over the nose and mouth until they died.

[00:37:43]>> But he said strangled at first.

[00:37:45]>> Instead she was strangled. He There's bruising on her neck. There's bruising on the muscles of the neck as well. So he placed pressure on her neck collapsing the jugular and corroted jugular veins, corroted arteries, and then causing her not to get oxygen to her brain. But he manually strangled her with her hands until she died, wrapped her in a sheet, and then buried her in a shallow grave where she laid there for several days decomposing.

[00:38:11]>> We are showing you the shallow grave where Shenan Watts was buried in the same oil fields near her two little girls. Dr. Killer Crown is coffin birth.

[00:38:22]>> Oh, I don't even want to hear that. So cough and birth is what happens when the body is decomposing gases form and these gases form in the abdom abdominal region in the soft tissues and they cause swelling of the skin. Well in the abdomen the gases are forming and creating this pressure in the abdomen with the intestines and the stomach. It all starts pushing down on the uterus and that forces the baby in the uterus out through the vaginal canal and basically makes them give birth after death. And it's just basic the the pressures from the decomposition gases causing the fetus to be expelled out of the uterus.

[00:39:01]>> I just don't get it. I don't get how now, even in death, Chris Watts is somehow blaming Shannan Watts and a gender reveal party. Joining us now, uh, a veteran defense attorney who shot to fame in his coverage of the Alex Murdoch double murder trial.

[00:39:26]>> It's Mark Pepper joining us out of South Carolina. He is the founder of the Pepper Law Firm. Mark, I don't think this would ever work in a court of law.

[00:39:36]I frankly don't understand why Chris Watts did not get the death penalty because it's triple murder. Plus, if you count the unborn baby, which in a lot of jurisdictions you do, that's four dead people. What were they just not valuable enough to seek the death penalty? But that said, >> we were told that the Ruseex didn't want the death penalty. Um, but the death penalty would have caused them to go to trial and would have had to go even longer. And I feel in my opinion the DA wanted to make sure that this went fast and clean and was done and over within certain amount of time so it looked good.

[00:40:21]>> The gender reveal party made me do it.

[00:40:25]Mark Pepper. I mean even you even you might have a hard time selling that to a jury with a straight face.

[00:40:33]>> I tend to agree that would be a tough one. uh when we're talking about motive in these types of instances, you know, the prosecution is looking for the why.

[00:40:42]Uh and everything that we've read, you know, is pointing towards and really what he wrote in his own book, right, is pointing towards this gender reveal party. Now, if true, well, that would be more akin to some type of manslaughter charge where in the heat of passion, uh you got upset that there was going to be this party you didn't want to host, didn't want to have, and so you kind of snapped. Well, they didn't go down that manslaughter route.

[00:41:07]>> Wait a minute. Somebody correct me if I just misheard. Maybe my earpiece isn't working because I'm pretty sure I heard Mark Pepper, who is a veteran defense lawyer say, well, there's his defense. Voluntary manslaughter. He didn't want to have the party. He didn't want to have a party.

[00:41:29]>> That should have been his defense.

[00:41:31]>> That is not a defense. Mark Pepper, you've won a lot of cases and I'm pretty sure that in your jurisdiction, South Carolina, snap is not a defense. I snapped. I snap 50 times a day. I don't kill anybody. Snap. That's the name of a show on oxygen. I snapped. Snap is not a defense, Pepper.

[00:41:53]>> Well, but Nancy, Snap is an element of manslaughter in the heat of passion.

[00:42:02]go to this party. You snapped and so you went out and committed these heinous crimes. That is >> go sit in the effing carvicted. Go for a drive. Go to uh go to Wild Wings and watch TV and have some wings. Whatever you want, >> but do you have to kill your wife, your two little girls, ages two and three, and the unborn baby boy? Now he's talking to his mistress about she wants to have his first boy. You know where she can stick that and it's where the sun don't shine. I want to have your first baby boy. Knowing he's still married, but she's not my problem. He's my problem. Mark Pepper. Now listen, >> I do want to know what Nancy Grace's opinion is on uh Nicole Cassinger. I would love to hear it.

[00:42:47]>> You know, you have to get renewed every year, right, by the South Carolina bar.

[00:42:53]Now, what are they going to say when they hear you claim, "I didn't want to go to a party." Is the defense in triple murder? I didn't want to go to the party, so I had to kill everybody throwing it.

[00:43:06]>> That is 100% in heaven. That is what we we Well, that's manslaughter, Nancy. If I was recommending anything to my client, I would say we're not pleading guilty to murder. This is a a quintessential manslaughter case where there there could be a number of different instances where obviously this party caused some type of heat of passion to come over him and he absolutely snapped. That is the definition of manslaughter. If I was representing him in Colorado, that would have been our defense. We would have plead guilty.

[00:43:35]>> This is not what I've heard from people >> manslaughter all day long. But I never would have >> When I say people, I'm talking about other DAs, judges, and lawyers advised him to plead guilty to murder because what motive was there? What what motive could there possibly have been to do this to your own children? It it's a it's akin to a lot of the the cases we see around here where it's not the job of the defense to explain actions. It the burden's on the state if you have a valid reason where you just lose it.

[00:44:03]That is the quintessential defense uh of manslaughter. And that should should have been the deal.

[00:44:09]>> What? What? What did you just say? A valid reason to quote lose it, which is also not. And another thing, Mark Pepper, could you please stop saying the word snap because it's making my ears bleed. They're bleeding because you know and I know I snapped is not a defense.

[00:44:32]You just also said, and they always use this example in law school, and I wish they would quit. And now I'm perpetuating it by using it myself.

[00:44:41]Voluntary manslaughter comes with heat of passion, anger that's uncontrollable.

[00:44:46]Such as, here's the example. A man comes home from work and finds his wife with another man in bed. They always use that. The wife's always the bad person.

[00:44:53]That said, so he shoots them both dead.

[00:44:55]And a jury is supposed to believe, well, she had it coming. He was so angry he couldn't control himself. You're equating your wife planning a gender reveal party and going to Costco and buying cheese trays and fruit snacks.

[00:45:11]That's that is the legitimate >> reason >> grounded reason that he quote lost it because his wife went to Costco.

[00:45:22]Seriously, are you really saying that >> you're decide that you know Nancy that the the the reason for the heat of passion, the reason for losing uh all control, it it doesn't have to be a legitimate one. That is up for the jury to decide. My point is that be it you come home in the law school example and your wife's cheating on you and in the heathen passion you you take an act that that's just the same under the eyes of the law as someone planning a party that you do not want to attend that you did not approve. If he if in his mind at that time that was the issue then that's a legitimate defense for him to at least pursue the manslaughter leester included offense which is what I would have recommended. Now, that being said, when you're looking at three, four, I guess it was four death penalties. All right.

[00:46:12]Well, then maybe >> it's a good thing this man didn't do that.

[00:46:15]>> Start changing courses and you try to remove that by pleading guilty to murder. But at the end of the day, >> the valid defense, the legitimate reason could have been a manslaughter charge under the lesser included offense. You go to trial on murders, the jury is given the murder to consider, but they're also given the lesser included offense of manslaughter, an act in the heat of passion that essentially drove you to commit these crimes. That should have been and very could easily could have been his defense.

[00:46:43]>> Okay. Um he's >> that's the dumbest defense I've ever heard in my life.

[00:46:50]actually saying this apparently with a straight face. And it's kind of like if Mark Pepper says it over and over and over enough that we're going to believe it, okay? Because I'm looking around here in the studio and everybody's starting to actually nod their heads.

[00:47:05]Yes. I don't know what happened to you people. But that said, let me throw another uh wrench at you, Mark. as in the Shaun Puffy Combmes case where the feds said basically to the states you failed and they take over the case of Shan Puffy Combmes. We also see that happening happening in the Luigi Manion case where the feds are do are conducting a dual prosecution at the same time as the state. In this case, is there any way the feds can intervene and seek the death penalty on Chris Watts?

[00:47:48]Because Colorado, we're talking about the death penalty. Colorado doesn't have the death penalty. You can basically kill as many people as you want to there. And you're never going to get the death penalty unless the feds intervene.

[00:48:00]What does it take for the feds to intervene? Oh, I thought of another one.

[00:48:04]They also intervened on Jared. Remember Jared the subway pitch guy? They intervened on that as well because uh he crossed state lines with the purpose of illegal.

[00:48:22]So that's just three off the top of my head and there are many many more. Why can't they intervene in this Mark Pepper?

[00:48:29]>> Yeah, they can Nancy and another one is the Michael Slagger case involving Walter Scott. they'll intervene and do the one on NK. Then >> the feds came and took that charge over here in South Carolina. So there's you're right, there's many more examples. The the answer is with a stroke of a pen, they could come and take it over. There's nothing preventing them from doing it and seeking the death penalty at the federal level. But the reality of it is that it's there's a lot more politics involved than simply the stroke of a pen, especially in in a midterm year such as this. It is possible that the federal government, the DOJ could come in and say, "Wait a minute." What do you mean the feds won't intervene because we're You said it's at midterm. Are you throwing this into the political pot, the cesspool of politics?

[00:49:14]>> Absolutely. Absolutely. We see it all the time. We see all the time where objective decisions are overridden by political vendettas. uh certain things such as who's in charge uh at the DOJ uh under the under the current presidency, such as who's running the the AG's office or the United States attorney's office in Colorado. Politics play a part in these things. They shouldn't, but the reality is they do. But they could the DOJ could come in and say, "Stop what you're doing." Double jeopardy doesn't apply here because under the pit waiver, we're going to go to the DJ. We're going to make sure that this guy gets what he deserves. and the feds at the DOJ, we believe he deserves a death penalty.

[00:49:54]There's nothing preventing them from doing it. I'm just simply making the point that sometimes it's not as easy as the objective decision to take pen to paper and seek it. There are lots of other uh reasons uh mostly political reasons. Uh that that we don't see that done as often as as probably it should be. You know, another thing, Mark Pepper, is that this was no big surprise to Chris Watts because his wife was fighting lupus and very, very difficult for her to conceive. Hold on. Mark Pepper from the Pepper Law Firm in South Carolina to Dr. Kendall Crowns is joining us, chief medical examiner, Tarant County. Dr. Kendall Crowns, what is it about lupus that makes it so difficult for women to conceive?

[00:50:43]So lupus is an autoimmune disorder in which your immune system attacks your own body tissues, your muscles, your joints, and even your uterine lining. So when it is attacking the uterine lining, it makes it a hostile environment for the implantation of the fertilized eggs.

[00:51:00]So women with lupus often struggle with fertility issues because their immune system is basically preventing them from getting pregnant. Shannan, Bella, Celeste, if you're out there, just just come back. Like, if somebody has her, just please bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see everybody again. This house is not complete with without anybody here.

[00:51:24]>> Please bring her back.

[00:51:27]>> Okay. Okay. Well, if you got him back right now, at that point, you'd have to dig him up out of the shallow grave where Shannan had coffin birth to your son, Nico, after you put her there. And you'd have to get the two little girls out of those cylindrical oil containers where you cram them down, rubbing the skin off of their arms. Can I say that one more time from our friends at Denver 7?

[00:51:51]>> Shannan, Bella, Celeste, if you're out there, just just come back. Like if somebody has her, just please bring her back. I need to see everybody. I need to see everybody again. This house is not complete with without anybody here.

[00:52:06]>> Please bring her back.

[00:52:09]>> Hours and hours interviewing Chris Watts. When I look at him, he literally makes me sick. Did you hear that?

[00:52:18]>> If you're out there, if you're out there, just >> I say she, I talk about MK.

[00:52:22]>> Come back. Like if somebody has her just please bring her back. I need to see everybody.

[00:52:30]>> Very sickening.

[00:52:30]>> Who is this man?

[00:52:32]>> Yes.

[00:52:33]>> Idiot.

[00:52:34]>> I want to say something if I could.

[00:52:37]This was not a moment of passion that he killed Shannan. I have letters. I would like for you some time to see my letters, Nancy, from him. I have letters where he tells me what he did. And he says when he put the girls to bed that night, he knew that was the last time he would be >> I that part it just always bothered me because why would you put them to bed knowing that you're going to murder them anyways?

[00:53:03]Wouldn't you just murder them to start off? Like I just don't understand that.

[00:53:07]>> Kissing his babies good night because he was going to kill them. He had been planning for two weeks how to do this.

[00:53:14]He told me that he took them to the a birthday party the day before and he laid at the pool while the girls were playing in this this little pool. He laid there daydreaming in his head what he was going to do to his wife and children.

[00:53:30]>> That's me.

[00:53:30]>> This was not a moment of passion at all.

[00:53:34]He knew what he was doing. He planned what he was doing. I have it in his own handwriting.

[00:53:40]This was not a man's slaughter. This was a coldblooded murder.

[00:53:47]>> Cherylyn Kel, hold on just a moment.

[00:53:48]I've got to go to Mark Pepper on that.

[00:53:50]Uh, out of South Carolina. Mark, did you hear that? I would bring on Cherylyn Kadel >> states witness may be maybe number three because this gender reveal party pushed me over the edge is total BS technical legal term because he writes in his own handwriting that he planned it lying by the pool getting a 10.

[00:54:16]>> Well, and I appreciate that with all due respect to your guest. You know, that's evidence that may or may not have been entered into the trial of this case.

[00:54:25]That's what the rules of evidence allow.

[00:54:26]Now, I understand statements against interest typically are allowed in a case against the defendant, but again, the foundation would have been laid. We simply don't know whether that evidence would have been admissible in a murder trial, candidly.

[00:54:37]>> Oh, dear Lord in heaven. Are you going to try to say something Mark Pepper?

[00:54:41]Like, that's not his handwriting. Right.

[00:54:43]Cherylyn Kel just such a liar, isn't she? She's gone to that jail. and listen to this guy whine for hundreds of hours.

[00:54:52]I don't know how she stood it, you know.

[00:54:54]I think I do know how she stood it. Um, Mark Pepper, have you ever hung out the laundry before you had a dryer? We did.

[00:55:01]Hung out in the backyard with those clips. You know, the clothes line just right here. She'd have to hold her nose to listen to this guy. You know what?

[00:55:09]I'll ask her. Cherylyn, did you hear that? Mark Pepper thinks your letters from >> It's killing hot in here. Holy crap.

[00:55:18]>> Chris Watts should be attacked on authenticity. Like what? You hid under the blanket on your bed with a flashlight and wrote the letter so nobody would find out.

[00:55:28]>> Well, actually they have been uh uh validated as being real. Um I have the envelopes that they came in, the dates they were mailed, the dates correspond with the the letters. His handwriting is very recognizable because he writes every girl and and female all over the country who's got little love letters from him said that they're not real is just so far from it. There's no way they would hold up in court. My letters are definitely >> okay. You just made you just gave me a whole another wave of nausea. Cherylyn Kadel, uh Dr. Gerylyn u did you hear what she said? Love letters from women all over the country. Yeah, this isn't a new concept. We've seen this with serial killers like Ted >> Yeah, I was say Ted Bundy. Um, Hitler had love letters sent to him when he was still married while he was in power. I mean, it's uh it's a thing apparently.

[00:56:26]>> Bundy in the past where um even uh Luigi Manion like people become kind of enamored and Wade Wade Wilson's another one. women become enamored with, you know, the bad boy type or whatever you want to classify it or call it. And and that that's strictly fantasy world.

[00:56:41]Clearly, these women don't understand or appreciate >> Wait, wait, wait. Could you just hold on, Dr. Geraldine, I'd like to ask the control room in New York to please search their conscience. Why are you showing what you obviously think is a hottie shot? Take that down right now.

[00:56:57]He is not hot. He is not sexy. He's a killer. He killed his wife and his children and his unborn baby.

[00:57:06]>> Okay, Dr. Gerald, please go ahead.

[00:57:09]>> So, what I was basically just trying to say, Nancy, is that it's it's a commonality. We see this with other serial killers. You have Ted Bundy, you have Wade Wilson, um you have this gentleman, Chris Watts. People become enamored with quote unquote the bad boy.

[00:57:24]these folks or these women do not realize that they're actually talking to somebody with it with with who's a psychopath more or less and you know they're exchanging they're entertain it's a form of entertainment they haven't been afforded the opportunity to see who these people really are another thing that I just wanted to to mention Nancy as I'm as I'm listening to all this in a crime of passion and all this was very clearly premeditated and planned let's not kind of you know dismiss that in And I can't believe we're even having this con like they they think that they can overturn and charge him with manslaughter >> type of way. He planned on doing this and then Sherland obviously confirmed that.

[00:58:06]>> But what I want to call out is it's not like he snapped all of a sudden and then decided to do this. This is a personality type of presentation that's been with him for for a very long time since he was, you know, a younger person or whatever. meaning he he doesn't have the capability to truly love and he doesn't have the capability to be remorseful. And when you have a personality organization that way, when you can't empathize, when you can't, you know, be sympathize, and when you can't truly love, it makes it very easy to do what he did. And that's the part that we really need to pay attention to. This is someone who way before these murders and you know he was never violent before but that doesn't discredit the fact that this is somebody who was incapable of true emotional connection to another human being anyone his daughters his son his wife so that's something I think we really have to pay attention to is yes it happened probably when he was in his 30s but this is who he has been throughout his life.

[00:59:08]So, looking at this in Colorado, if they did, which I don't think they will, honestly, I don't think anybody's going to touch Chris Watts um with a 10-ft pole, but for people to actually sit there and say that they could overturn uh polit politically, my goodness, I was trying to find the words, and bring it down to manslaughter.

[00:59:39]manslaughter penalties of prison sentence of 2 to six years per person.

[00:59:46]So 6* 4 is 24.

[00:59:52]Unlawful termination of a pregnancy 48 years. I don't know. Maybe he would still do life in prison. But for them to even try to even think that it was a crime of passion, are you kidding me?

[01:00:08]I I'm flabbergasted.

[01:00:17]And for them to sit there and say that her letters were faked like and they can't be used in court of law like I'm I'm starting to lose faith in humanity. We just Jesus needs to hit the reset button for us to go home. It's It's getting worse.

[01:00:43]I don't know about you guys. Comment your guys' thoughts down below. I can't watch any more of this crap that these guests that she has on here. This whatever what is his name?

[01:00:56]His name was Mark Peter, >> what was he again?

[01:01:08]>> Won't intervene because we're You said it's at midterm. Are you throwing this into the political pot, the cesspool of politics?

[01:01:15]>> Absolutely.

[01:01:17]>> Absolutely. We see it all the time. We see all the time where objective to >> criminal defense attorney. So, they're saying his defense is he did this at a crime of passion and that they need to have him at manslaughter.

[01:01:35]Oh my gosh. Comment your guys' thoughts down below. Of course, don't forget to hit the bell icon once you guys have subscribed. Um, I don't see it ever happening. what they need to do is overturn it and go after Nicole, but it's probably never going to happen, unfortunately. So, again, I thank you guys for being here. Take care. God bless and uh be safe. Uh keep nerding on and we'll see you guys in the next one.