This analysis provides a sophisticated mapping of Lynch’s metaphysical landscapes, effectively bridging the gap between suburban banality and spiritual dread. It is a rare example of collective intelligence doing justice to the complexity of the subconscious.
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David Lynch analysis chillstream w/ PBR Street GangAdded:
Heat. Heat.
[music] [music] >> [music] >> Honey secrets travel.
I start [music] to believe if I was [singing] to leave things the man [music and singing] chase his hands [music] cruise beyond cruise me up [music] beyond beyond beyond [music] lonely No return. [music] I feel right.
[music] [music] [music] The cruise remain cruise re [music] and the rest.
It's the angel man.
[music] [music] >> [music] [screaming] [music] >> of the face [music] of God.
Oh my god. [music] Make [music] real dear love before [music] And the rain.
It's the [music] angel [music] [music] man. Empty [music] cruise mess. [music] [music] >> [music] [music] >> Happy world.
All right, man. That is the best song in the best movie in my opinion. But yeah, welcome everyone. I have Blood Logos, uh Jason, the real John Connor. Sounds like uh BLA is gonna hop on. And we're also waiting for Maddie. Hopefully he can make it. Um tonight, we're gonna nerd out on David Lynch. It's been like well over a year, right, since his passing.
And um I remember when that happened.
Um, we were trying to get BLA to do like a tribute stream and he wasn't really into it. And I don't know why, but he's just not like a mega fan or anything, right? But I have I've gotten a sense from him that he's not really into the whole like it it was all a dream explanation of movies. I wouldn't say at all that that's what David Lynch, you know, can be chocked up to, but definitely one of them it was all a cope dream. And I'm sure we'll get into that.
Um, so yeah, but first I just wanna um I think we should just start talking about Blue Velvet because I know Jason, you said that in order to understand David Lynch's work, a lot of the keys are there in Blue Velvet. So would you say that?
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah.
>> Yeah. That's I that's my personal opinion. I think so because it's it's obviously one of his earlier works and I feel like some of the some of the motifs and patterns that he's exploring and using in Blue Velvet are uh recycled into the rest of his works and expanded upon in his other works.
>> Um but yeah, we'll get into all that.
Yeah. like what's lurking beneath, you know, um the facade of normaly of everyday life and and [clears throat] Americana and suburbia and stuff like that.
>> So, um let's just start out before we get into that, I really want to play this um review by by Roger Eert. So, let me get this going here. Sorry, I'm such a bloomer. Let me get rid of this thing. Stop screen.
Share. Okay, here we go.
Oh, wait. That's not the right [laughter] one. Sorry. I'm looking for um blue velvet. My bad.
There it is. Okay.
Do I have to remove that?
Sorry, boomer tech here. There it is.
Okay, >> our next movie is named Blue Velvet. And already this movie has caused a firestorm around the country with some advanced reviews calling it a masterpiece and others calling it sick and depraved and still others calling it a sick depraved masterpiece. The movie takes place in a small town where a young couple stumbles over a mystery. A mystery that begins with a discovery of a severed human ear and leads them to suspect that the ear might belong to the missing husband of a local nightclub singer. Here's the scene where the young couple, Kyle Mclofflin and Laura Durn, make a plan to spy on the older woman.
>> There are opportunities in life for gaining knowledge and experience.
>> Sometimes it's necessary to take a risk.
Then I got to thinking, I'll bet someone could learn a lot by getting into that woman's apartment. You know, sneak in, hide, and observe.
>> Sneak into her apartment.
>> Yeah.
>> Are you crazy, Jeffrey? She's possibly involved in murder.
>> In the movie's most shocking scene, the nightclub singer, played by Isabella Roselini, discovers Mclofflin hiding in her apartment.
>> Who sent you here?
>> Nobody.
>> I've seen you before.
I >> sprayed your apartment. I took your key.
I didn't mean to do anything except see you.
>> What do you see tonight? Tell me.
>> I saw you come in. I saw you talk on the phone.
>> And then >> do you sneak in girl's apartment to see them get undressed?
>> No, never before this.
>> Get undressed.
>> Well, that's a shocking development.
Later, Mclofflin befriends her after he finds out Roselini's husband and son have been kidnapped by a perverted drug addict who has made her his slave.
>> Who is this?
>> My friend. He's from the neighborhood.
We were just talking.
[clears throat] >> Oh, you're from the neighborhood?
>> Yeah, >> your neighbor.
>> But what's your name, neighbor?
Jeffrey, >> he's a good kid, Frank.
>> Hey, you want to go for a ride?
>> No thanks.
>> No thanks. What? What does that mean?
>> I don't want to go.
>> Go where?
>> For a ride.
>> A ride. Now, that's a good idea.
Okay, let's go.
Let's go get your robe. That's Dennis Hopper as the bad guy there. Blue Velvet is a movie that really challenges you to think about your reactions to it. And my reaction is I think this movie is cruy unfair to its actors. It was directed by David Lynch, the same man who made Eraser Head and Dune. And he's a talented director. You can see that here in scenes that have a lot of power. But he asked Isabella Roselini in this movie to be undressed and humiliated on the screen as few actresses ever have been, certainly in non- porno roles. Then he tries to take the edge off her shocking scenes by turning the whole thing into some kind of a joke. Well, either this material is funny, in which case you don't take advantage of your stars, or it isn't funny, in which case it shouldn't have so much campy and adolescent dialogue along with the really powerful sexual scenes. Sure, the movie's wellm made, but the more I thought about it, the less I liked it.
>> Well, I liked it and I thought about it a lot. And I think you may be on the wrong tech in trying to feel sorry for Isabella Roselini because after all, she consented to do what she did on the screen. Number one. Number two, I'm sure she's walking around wherever she lives, New York City or whatever, and survived the whole experience, just like Janet Lee survived the shower scene in Psycho.
So, I don't think that that's pertinent.
I think what's exciting about the film, and it is challenging, is it starts out with flowers and sunlight, and it's a happy little town, and then we dig deeper and we find out it's a nasty town, or at least a couple of people are nasty. And I sat there, and this did for me, and I use the psycho example again, this did for me what St. psycho did as a lot younger, which is eyes open and oh my god, we're really getting in over our heads. And that's an experience which is challenging, shocking, >> but mesmerizing. And I like the picture.
>> Well, first of all, I don't think I'm on the wrong tack with Isabella Roselini.
In the first place, the movie was shot in two halves. So, she had no idea making her part of the movie that all of the stuff outdoors and in the daylight was going to be smarmy and campy and funny with all kinds of in jokes. And secondly, it seems to me that we can't divorce our reactions. It's not how Isabella Roselini reacts to the fact that she's standing there nude and humiliated on the lawn of the police captain's house with lots of people watching. It's how I react. And that's painful to me to see a woman treated like that. And I want to know that if I'm feeling that pain, it's for a reason that the movie has other than simply to cause pain to her.
>> Well, I think that the reason is that the film is a thriller and a shocker. I mean, there are people that get hurt badly in real life, and I think that this is a legitimate one. This is not a simple mad slash.
>> Then why is it a comedy? because he wants to set you up. He's a director and he wants to play you like all the directors, the great directors want to do. He wants to play you like a piano, which is have you smile and then swing you right into >> some depression.
>> Yeah, I think he wants to play me like a piano. He better get some music that's worth listening to.
>> I think this is a good song.
>> I love how sassy he gets. So Jason, why don't you tell us why that's your favorite movie? [laughter] >> Well, first of all, that first Boomer, he's a toddler goober. doesn't get what he's watching at all. And the second guy actually had good points. I agree with the second guy. That was Cisco and Eber, right?
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> Okay. Yeah, that's what I thought.
Anyway, uh Blue Velvet, uh for me, what So, Blue Velvet was the first Lynch film that I ever saw out of his whole catalog. And um when I saw it, [clears throat] it was incredible how you go to this it to me it was just like a perfect depiction of every person's real life, right? Like the loss of innocence and sort of uh uh you know Jeffrey Bowmont, right? He's sort of representing the the the the person watching the film like yeah, we're naive. we're watching this movie and then all of a sudden it's like oh my gosh this is a nightmare right the dream becomes a nightmare and then uh we realize ju just like the depravity and the damage and the and the evil that some you know Jeffrey is living this very normal life he's going to college you know his dad gets sick and that sort of throws him off a little bit and then uh he finds a severed ear that throws him off a lot of it but he's also curious because he's like how can I how can how can I you know I have to re-evaluate all of my reality because up to this point it was roses and picket fences and Dalmatian dogs on the fire truck, right? Uh everything was perfect and orderly and everything's great and taken care of and accounted for, but now all of a sudden my dad had an aneurysm and there's a severed ear in a field. Oh no, I'm I you know, he's sort of he's sort of coming into confrontation with the true nature of reality, right? which is not all uh uh golden sunshine and blue skies, right? Um and and it forces him to become curious about it because he has to examine this so he can re-evaluate sort of his perception on reality and life. And um what got me about the film is the ending, the resolution like you know he's in this perfect surface level world. He sort of crosses a barrier into uh the underworld.
Uh and then through experiencing this underworld journey, he comes back out to the surface level and all is restored.
His dad's back in good health out of the hospital. Frank Booth is vanquished. Uh the robins are eating the bugs, you know, pest control, you know, that's I love I love I love how he shows up at Dorothy's as a pest control guy, right?
because he represents the Robin in the film. And just like when Sandy, his uh his I guess for lack of a better term, love interest, Laura Durn, >> [snorts] >> uh she shares her dream, right? She she says, "I had this dream and everything was dark and terrible and and no love and then all a sudden there was light and a bunch of robins and and of course, you know, symbolically we we often associate birds with like angels or or you know, uh higher spirits, you know, of good or whatever." And so for me, watching Blue Velvet, seeing this journey go from sort of, you know, I'm here, then I'm down way down here, and then I come back up here, and everything is sort of made right again. In fact, it's made better because now he's confronted the demon Frank Booth. He's vanquished the demon, you know, Frank Booth. Now he can go back to the normaly knowing knowing that Frank Booth is gone. that this this awful thing that was hidden from me, I faced it. I got rid of it. Now I'm, you know, and to me that's just incredibly beautiful. I love it.
>> It's beautiful. But, you know, there was a campiness to the beginning, right?
>> But then that ending is that ending was like way more campy than than the beginning. Like it almost seemed like unreal. Like, and that's what I didn't like about the ending was that it was like a little too much, like a little too perfect.
>> [laughter] >> I can't watch I literally cry every time I watch the ending and I've watched it like a hundred times. Like I I love it.
like just the slow the slow pan on his ear hearing the bird song and his mom calling out lunch is ready and his dad oh hi son you know I mean because the whole movie centers around the severed ear right and what that represents like you know uh and of course you know I don't want to dominate the conversation here but like ears uh you know they dictate someone's balance right they uh equilibrium like if you damage an ear you know you're going to lose equilibrium. And to me, this is a beautiful metaphor of sort of the the the spiritual balance beam we all live with, right? Like there's a dream here, there's a nightmare here, and we're taking the narrow path down the middle, and we have to sort of not teeter one way or the other because both are sort of uh an exaggerated illusion of what's actual right in the middle. And that's why I think what you mentioned as the campiness, I actually see that as speaking to the theme of the film that yes, uh when you fall one way or the other into these elucory sort of uh experiences, it is surreal and it is cheesy or cliche like the the cliches are the archetypes of reality that you know it's real.
Um but um anyway, >> I just realized you kind of sound like David Lynch a little bit. Your voice [laughter] You know what really got me was um after he actually ended up like getting intimate with Dorothy and he actually abused her, he goes home and he has this breakdown, right? And like he kind of has this like union like Petersonian like oh there's evil in the world but there's also evil in me. And that's what really like I don't know that really stood out to me. Um because I know I don't know I think I asked you guys like on a previous diner what was your realization of evil and mine was the um that Mandalay Bay shooting and that's when I kind of woke up and you kind of like it's like a disturbing you know awakening when you realize the evil in the world and then you realize how you can be quite a monster yourself.
And um so Blizz goes did you like this movie? I think I saw you saying this was your favorite, too, right?
>> Uh yeah, I'm a big fan of uh Blue Velvet. It's been a long time since I watched it. Um I'm more of a Twin Peaks fan, but uh >> yeah, >> I think they do share a lot of similar themes. Um a lot of his work does. Um the duality and uh balance between light and dark, good and evil, >> um mundane and uh macob.
Absolutely. Yeah. Especially like how he he seems to admire Dorothy, but at the same time there's like this repulsion toward the whole thing she's involved in. And I don't know, there's just this duality to everything. Um he has this in all of his all of his works. Um would you say that he's kind of like Gnostic?
I know he's into like meditation. He was meditation stuff like that.
Yeah, he's big into the meditation stuff. Um, yeah, I definitely think there's some Gnostic influence there for sure.
>> And Yung, Carl Jung.
>> Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Absolutely.
>> Absolutely.
>> I mean, Yung Jung was verynostic as well. So, >> yeah. So, um, what also got me about the film was obviously Frank Booth. Um, would you say that his psychopathy is real? Like anyone could really be like that? The people really are like that?
Anyone can answer that.
>> Sure.
>> Yes. I've I've seen people like with my own eyes that are like that. That's sort of the thing that's like so striking about the movie that's like also striking about Lynch's work in general is that it's like despite the fact that there is this extreme campiness to it, there is like there's a realness to it.
And if you've been around the block enough, you will encounter a Frank Frank Booth, right? That's his name. Frank Booth, right? Or you encounter someone else like that. You know, the thing the thing that struck me the most the first time I ever saw the movie was not necess like it was the the duckw walk. And I just wasn't prepared for that at the very beginning. I was like, what the when when K McLaclin and um Laura Durn are on uh are on their first date, he does that stupid t. I was like, what? I I just didn't know what to expect from that. I was like, "What am I watching?"
Like, "Why am I watching this movie?"
It's the same reaction I had when I saw um uh uh what's her face complain about the drapes in Twin Peaks and I was like, I don't understand what kind of like what how could you put this in the how could this be in the same universe as this sort of extreme esotericism and stuff like that.
>> But that's the nature of it. And um again if you you you just keep keep exploring and or just keep living really and eventually you will encounter people like that. You know there's some some psychos out there. [laughter] So like yeah they exist.
>> Was that uh was the PBR intentional?
>> What >> you're drinking was the PBR intentional?
>> Yes. Absolutely. [laughter] >> Absolutely. Yeah.
>> There you go. I know. [clears throat] I >> We were talking about this. We were talking about this before the stream started and I was like, if I had known this, I would have gotten I would have gotten a Heineken instead of a PSNer.
But, you know, it's it's all right. For next time when we do a part two, I'll get Heineken. So, >> absolutely.
>> Oh, go ahead, Jason. uh on on your last question, you know, I liked how you frame that because, you know, you said, you know, do you think uh you know, anyone could become a Frank Booth, you know, and I think that's that's a great question because that's what Lynch is showing us in his works. He's showing us that, you know, yes, we're we're viewing it as like this external separate entities clashing type deal, but oftentimes I find his work as metaphorically speaking about the individual internally, right? And like a lot of times, you know, some of us do encounter our inner Frank Booth and we have to check our inner Frank Booth, you know, so to speak. And that's why I think Jeffrey is such a Chad, right?
Because Jeffrey when when he's in the when he's in the car, uh, with Frank and his goons, and Frank is, you know, molesting Dorothy in the front seat essentially, uh, huffing gas and and molesting her. Uh, he says, "Hey, man, stop it." And Frank looks at him shocked because he's never been stopped and corrected in his life, right? And and Jeffrey's like, "Stop." You know, and what a Chad move because he's he's literally surrounded by Frank's goons.
Like, he's outnumbered. And then he just punches Frank right in the face. And it's just like, yes, you know, and then they they drag Jeffrey out of the car and and they all hold him up and Frank starts putting on lipstick and starts like kissing him aggressively and finally. And then he starts reciting the lyrics of in dreams to him like as if it's him speaking to Jeffrey. And to me, this speaks to to Frank's psychology and sort of the hidden past of what created Frank, right? Like you you since we don't know what created Frank, we we have to sort of assume and guess, right?
But for anyone who's familiar with psychology and and sort of the the studies and literature on psychology, obviously this guy had a horrible childhood. Behaviors were modeled to him that shouldn't have been modeled to him.
Uh abuse probably occurred and it put him into the state >> ancestral with his mother.
>> Exactly. 100%.
>> Dorothy looks like a mom.
>> Yes. That total vibe.
>> Right. Right. And why he's withholding her child, right? And it be, you know, that he's he's like this weird, warped, inverted, perverted uh young man, like basically I think he's psychologically stunted because of his childhood abuse.
So he's trapped in sort of this infantile perspective, which is why he's he is the way he is, right? He's always shouting and hollering and cussing and, you know, he's acting like a 13-year-old boy, right? and and surrounded by >> doesn't he at one point also even like when he starts huffing the gas he even starts talking like a baby like literally he will he says like baby babble at some point yeah mommy mommy >> yeah yeah yeah when he when he uh when he uh molests uh Dorothy in the apartment you know he even says baby wants to >> uh mate so it's definitely >> about that did they really like did he really have intercourse with her at that time or was that completely like some weird thing he was doing humping her? I think it was just like a weird uh power move [laughter] because because when you watch it you're like wait that didn't that didn't there's no way he couldn't you know [laughter] uh the the logistics didn't work u but uh symbolically if it yeah no I think I think Frank you know he he's he deep deep deep deep down under these layers that Frank has buried and lost.
Basically, this inner child of his, you know, he like, for example, when he watches Dorothy perform, he's brought to tears. You know, he's still capable of perceiving the good and the beautiful.
Uh something about the music touches him so deeply. And and this is what's interesting because every time he is touched that deeply, he immediately cuts it off, stops it, and lashes out, right?
And so it makes me think, okay, this was a child who was vulnerable and when they were vulnerable, they were hurt badly.
Therefore, he can no longer allow himself to become vulnerable. He has to be the victimizer. He will not be the victim, right? Like psychologically.
And so that's what I think we're seeing with Frank in the whole the whole movie, you know? And that's why the scene where he drags Jeffrey out of the car and he puts on lipstick and starts smooching him. Uh, the way I interpret that is like this is his inner child who's been begging desperately this whole time to be stopped and corrected by a father figure or a representative of God. He is he genuinely can't believe this man showed up, stopped him, corrected him, but he can't express it properly because he's so warped and twisted. Right? This is the way he expresses it. Put, you know, punching him, beating him up, and he's and the whole time he's doing it, you know, he's like, "I'll f you.
[clears throat] I'll send you to hell, you know? And it's like cuz you know, love hurts, you know, especially when you're really abused and wounded and and messed up and warped, right? Like love hurts. And so anytime he's shown love or being stopped and corrected, he freaks out and he he fights against it, right?
And this makes me think of each one of our journeys in life, you know, where we're these fallen, sinful, confused creatures. life's unfair, you know, and then and then God just sort of grabs you and holds you to the wall long enough till you surrender and just repent, right? You know, and so that's how I interpret that scene, you know, and that's why I love Jeffrey. I think he's an absolute Chad.
>> Yeah, I think he's a Oh, go ahead, Maddie. What's up?
>> Hey, hopefully my audio is not too bad.
I'm driving. Um, but yeah, I wanted to say something that uh that that was interesting that that Jason mentioned is, >> you know, if people have uh you know, if you've seen Twin Peaks, which you know, spoiler alert, you've had like 34 years to watch it. And if you haven't by now, then oh well. But, you know, at the end when um at the end of season two when uh Kyle McLaclin's character gets trapped in the Black Lodge because you know it's there's the I can't remember who tells him but somebody tells him like you have to enter with perfect courage >> and he doesn't and so he gets trapped there and I think that um uh Jeffrey is kind of I I see similarities between Dale Cooper and Jeffrey and you can sort of and I hadn't really thought of this before till Jason was talking about it, but you can sort of see where uh Jeffrey kind of did enter that situation with perfect courage and he did come out you know on the other side sort of victorious and even though you know it's it's different universes different characters obviously but I think it's an interesting contrast between those two and and seeing what the outcome is when you know even though Jeffrey was and it's interesting because Jeffrey appears to be terrified like he's he's kind of masking this terror that he's feeling in this situation whereas you know Dale Cooper seems very uh kind of confident and self assured at all times, but then seeing the the outcome of the of the two of them, I I think is a it's just very interesting contrast and a very interesting study in those those two characters that uh that that K Macklin played.
>> Yeah. How about you, BA? Did you like this film? And what do you think of David Lynch's Corpus in general?
Yeah, I heard you guys talking about baby B baby man. Somebody was mentioning baby something like a baby. Somebody just said that. [laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. It reminds me of my new idea for a movie. Babyman. Baby man. I'll tell you about that later. Um [laughter] it's kind of lynchian. It's it's a bit Lynchian. I was thinking about I was thinking about a descriptive term like from critics over the years about how to sort of summarize or describe you know David Lynch movies in general in terms of their aesthetic and and it's kind of a it's a weird thing because you know it's just his name. is sort of his namesake, the the aonomous, you know, Lynchian film which sort of encapsulates like what is it like neo- noir like expressionism, surrealism, a dream, you know, this sort of uncanny thing happening in his films.
And >> [clears throat] >> uh really I'm just excited, you know, I'm just looking forward to hear, you know, I want to hear what you guys say about David Lynch films and how how to sort of decipher them because there's been so much, you know, about him. I I love of course I love Jay's take on uh Mhalland Drive and the sort of you know did breakdown of it. Um but with Blue Velvet especially we're still on Blue Velvet, right? You guys talking about Blue VELVET POPS BLUE RIBBON. Nobody's done that yet.
>> Um >> yeah, it's like it's like uh this this film is so it's so terrorizing to me. I it's it it's strange because I think you were mentioning like I'm not the you know I'm not like a Lynch super fan you know I I I like parts of his movies. I did you know a fiveh hour analysis with with Jethro a while back. We talked about Twin Peaks, Firewalk with Me and stuff and [clears throat] um I think like you know my my take on David Lynch is like Lost Highway was my sort of entry point into David Lynch and it it like terrorized me. It like utterly terrorized me. I didn't know what to make of it. I was in, you know, high school. A friend like lent me the VHS and it's like these long sequences of the highway and it's broken up. It's got the David Bowie song that you're playing. Um, and you know, the videotape aspect of it, the you know, all this stuff. It's it's like so it's beyond surreal. It's like total chaos to me.
And I have a hard time making my way around his movies because I feel like the the underbelly of the American dream aspect of his films, you know, were always like in 50sville.
>> It's like Pleasantville and there's, you know, it's the flowers and the perfect, you know, suburbia and all that. It's like I think it's maybe that now we're at a point where we're so far beyond that or that it's soaked into culture so much and our vision of America that we sort of expect that there's going to be a depiction of a dark underbelly, something like really really dark that that belies all that. But even with that, you can't really grasp like you can't predict what's going to happen in his films. Like Finding the Finger or whatever or or just like Dennis Hopper being being the way that he is in Blue Velvet is is so like it's so like primal, you know? He's such a terror.
Um, he's really this like this chaotic like spirit embodied that is like so crazy that I don't really know what to make of it besides the fact that it's just sort of like chaos and order presented on these two planes.
And I don't know after a while I kind of think I asked myself like what's the point? What what's the point of it besides the surrealistic aspect or the dream like the the dream gone wrong?
Okay, here's here's what I'll say. Maybe CS Lewis provides some insight into this because there's that scene in um is it Dawn Tredder where they they they rescue the guys on the ship and they say like where have you been and they're like oh we've been in the land of dreams and they're like oh that sounds great and they're like no no you don't understand it's not good dreams it's just dreams so it's you know there are good aspects of it but a dream can be totally hellish there's no control so I feel like maybe that is sort of a way in to David Lynch um that it's there's a dream a dreamlike thing happening, but it's not it's not like how we think of dreams. A lot of it is totally chaotic and and terrifying.
It's uncanny.
>> It's uncanny. Yeah. I know that he said that um how he gets his ideas is that it's more like fishing, right? Like those ideas already exist. You just have to find a way to be a receiver of them.
And I think that that's pretty dangerous. I know John and I have talked a lot about that. um you know if you're orthodox you kind of you understand that and he was just completely receptive to any idea and that's why you see a lot of um out of context scenes especially like in Twin Peaks is full of that like nothing makes any sense but it's there anyway and I guess that's kind of a signpost that there is something dreamlike about the whole thing and um but he doesn't have any he doesn't seem to have any reason as far as like the interviews I've seen of him he doesn't have any reason to put those in there.
Um, it's just irrational and that's kind of what he's working with. But I like what you said about the kind of the duality of it there. There's so much of that in his work. Um, >> somebody somebody should have asked him um, you know, where he got his ideas from, right, John? [laughter] >> He got them from Ralphs. He got them from the Ralphs on uh, >> one thing I like about Lynch is that he was >> Ralphs on Rodeo Drive. Sometimes I I kind of go back and forth on did he actually was there a reason for everything he did or was it this just seems to fit because one thing I I one thing I don't like is when artists whether it's painters, writers, filmmakers, you know, musicians sit there and explain like give you a detailed breakdown of what something they did means. I I think that when you put something out there, like you just leave it open to interpretation. And Lynch was consistent in that he would never elaborate on anything that he did.
Like there's that famous interview clip where he says that Eraser Head is his most spiritual film. And the interviewer says, "Well, elaborate on that." And Lynch kind of laughs and says, "No, and that's it." And so I I kind of like that. And so with with Twin Peaks because it kind of oscillates between this just really unnerving just sheer horror and then these really kind of sappy sort of soap opera uh you know dramatic scenes and it's like it was he was there a reason for this? And I I think I tend to to heir on the side of of that there's a reason for everything. We just don't know what it is. is that he knew why he did every single thing that's in any of his work.
Um but uh anyway, yeah, it's I I do I do think the his um you know that kind of method of just being open to everything. I mean, I think it's that can be good. I think it's a fine line because it can be good in that you know, you should be open if you're a creative type. I think it's good to be open to, you know, wherever inspiration may come from. But, you know, we also know he was really into like transcendental meditation, which seems like a cult because I've never met or heard of anyone that does transcendental meditation that isn't like a Hollywood celebrity. So, and there's some some pretty weird stuff that comes out of that.
That that's one of the that's one of the things that's in some sense I think that is the key to understanding David Lynch as the man and as the artist because um Melie you touched on that just a moment ago and I know about this to a to a great degree because I learned how to do transcendental meditation from watching David Lynch's interviews and then also just doing my own like sort of research on it and so I know exactly what he's talking about when he says like oh like I was open to the idea Cuz what he does basically is he sort of either has actual dreams concerning the the the scenes in the movies and he just puts them in there blankly or he sort of has a a thought about what the movie is supposed to what the next scene in the movie is and then he just has a meditation on it and then the images that come into his mind as a consequence of the meditation that's literally what he puts into the movie. I've seen interviews where he said exactly that.
So essentially, and that's sort of the thing about that that where it's like there's a cultic sort of elements to his work and that's exactly why because he's literally like he's allowing himself because when you do that sort of thing, you're allowing yourself to be a radio receiver for it's like what we talk about we talked about this with the whole process of theosis. I know that we I think we have on one of the episodes Mel and like other orthodox people in the in the in the sphere and priests and stuff have mentioned this. It's like theosis is essentially you're turning your internal radio to God's frequency, right? But what transcendental meditation does is you're just turning on to some random frequency and just letting whatever comes in play out, which and if it's not on God's frequency, it's demonic. You know, that's really what it comes down to. And that's why it's so out of place because he's getting just random bombardments of God knows what. But that's sort of again going back to the Youngian component of this, you know, and I think I don't remember if it was Jason or Maddie that said this, but it's I think I think you said this Jason. It's like, you know, every sort of piece that is a you could say archetypal or young or whatever, you know, the the the drama that's playing out is a similocra of the internal state of a person basically, you know, and that's sort of another element of what Blitz is trying to depict. But again, the way that he gets there is by allowing himself from what I've seen him say in interviews, I mean, and it's been years since I've sort of really even looked into this subject because I was so closely connected to it, but from what he's said in interviews directly, he allows himself to become an actual trans like transate sort of receptor to the things themselves and that's what he puts on the screen. And so when you see that, that's what you're looking at.
>> I agree. I I like those. Let me just say real quick that I I um I think that what Manny was saying, especially about, you know, asking the filmmaker, the artist for an interpretation of their own work and you know that he doesn't give it I I think is a usually a strength with an artist uh if the work is any is of any merit. And people obviously consider his work of merit. I mean, it's certainly original and advent, you know, it's adventurous. It's edgy. It's like not it's like nothing else. It also takes a kind of provenence from mellow drama from from kit and you know sort of weird like golden age culture. It's obviously you know there's a lot of his youth thrown into this a kind of warped youth.
But if you take sort of what uh that sort of loo like Buddhist uh transcendental meditative um like sort of paradigm then emptying himself of everything and then what's the first tenant of Buddhism is like all life is pain then you know >> suffering. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Right. So if you look at it sort of through that lens, if that is the lens we're looking at it with, then that makes sense because there's so much chaos. There's like not much to grasp and hold on to except for what you were saying like about archetypes. There's the family, there's business, there's, you know, sort of suburban life and in a lot of his work. Uh there's celebrity, there's, you know, sort of Hollywood movies like American culture. If I were a like a post-modernist deconstructionist um critic of his films trying to explain him, then I would I would certainly say that they tend to take the American dream and the various like signposts of what makes America and then if they sort of there's nothing else. It's just like consumerrist stuff. If they take that, then it makes sense that it also goes into the inversion of that and and sort of exposes the dark subconscious mind of things. It exposes the hidden darkness in all this stuff. Like in Blue Velvet, like the bad guys like right there, you know, is not only in the dark scenes, he's like, you know, in sunlight scenes.
The way that she's, you know, exposed the the lady is, you know, the singer Russelli like she's exposed in daylight.
So it's not just like the nakedness in the dark, it's also in light. So it's sort of bringing things to the surface.
But other than that, I mean, that seems to be like a cheap way of like looking at American culture or film or something. So um maybe the depth is that the depth comes to the surface. I don't know. Um I just find them so confusing and chaotic like like for the same reason I don't like like Lewis Carol stuff >> nonsense, you know? That's one of the that's one of the sort of underlying principle I guess to just to build off your point. I I I see what you're saying. That is I guess when you really buy into that worldview of like this whole you know this unconscious like punching forth into the into the you know when you see the world as that that's part of the reason I think why that comes inherently with his work because it's like that is essentially one of the tenants of his worldview is that it's like you know there is this sort of you know whatever you want to call it this you know this this underlying muk you know this gnostic sort spiritual whatever that we manifest forth from basically and it's present in our ideas and that's sort of where that comes from. So it's baked into I get what you're saying. I think that's the thing that's baked into the cake with his worldview and that's part of the reason why it's there in the first place. It is why ultimately it is like something is bleeding into reality because in his worldview that is essentially what every person has to deal with this underlying pre-existing eternal sort of return thing. Not eternal return but this eternal sort of this eternal like underbelly. It's just always there and then it's just punching up into the into existence itself.
>> I think it's about balance. Uh that's the main thing. Um he he thinks that uh you know being exposed to the macob um will make you appreciate the mundane more and uh that's why he that's part of the reason why he um seems so interested in the 1950s. Um it's you know right after World War II uh very wholesome Americana kind of a suburban white picket fence.
Um, and you can't really appreciate the white picketed fence until you uh see all the mud and bugs right right underneath it.
>> Yeah. Also, there was the the cold war and it's kind of fitting that we're doing this after we just did the last diner about nihilist art because um you know, we talked about this entrance into surrealism and um David Lynch was also a painter.
He was a painter first and I I just think it's all pretty fitting. Now Josiah Elandon has a question here. Can someone comment on the similarity between Lynch and Jung in their approach to discovering the shadow self, our initial avoidance, and when we finally are brought into the horror of our shadow and sin, what we find is so ugly. And it is not until we bring that realization into the light that we reach healing.
I see that as kind of dangerous. I see that as like kind of the uh it's like the argument for doing iawaska like you have to like see hell before you can heal or somethingizing in itself.
>> There's a there's a thing about young's ideas that's like there is an element of it. There's a glimmering of like, you know, as an Orthodox Christian, there is a glimmering and I can see how I can I can I guess in some sense I think about it now that I'm Orthodox that it's like, okay, this was in some sense, you know, like this was, you know, a for a foreshadowing of what, you know, what I was to understand is like what repentance is basically, you know, because there's an element of that with it. The problem is though is that like there's an assumption that you have to take the thing on in itself. You see this in Hinduism. This is one of the things that father Sarah from Rose, you know, soon to be St. Sarah from Rose wrote about in orthodoxy and the religion of the future that there's this underlying assumption with specifically Hinduism but other sort of pantheistic um worldviews that in order to it all things are essentially equal basically there isn't really a good or a bad simply shades of things. Um there isn't evil, there isn't good. There's just simply things that are. And so in order to become, you know, what's good or necessarily complete isn't necessarily what is good. It is simply what is the whole set. And that's part of the problem with Young's ideas is that like there is an inheritance to that where the whole point of the shadow complex and taking on the shadow complex is to actually integrate those things into your conscious life in the first place.
And so you're not actually dealing with your problems. you almost double down on your problems in some sense. You almost in some cases I think you kind of end up making them worse because of that. At least that's how I understood it. But it's been uh many years since I've actually sort of delved into that because that's, you know, not me anymore. So, >> thank God.
>> Yes. I mean, >> I mean, just look at Jordan Peterson.
Wasn't he big into Yung and this?
>> Well, that's exactly I mean Yes. That's exa that's exactly it. You know, he he basically and in every turn he's had now hopefully this changes at some point. We pray that it does. But I mean Jonath actually said this in the recent thing with Jay Dyer where he's like what he's experiencing fundamentally is spiritual because that caththeia and this other sort of thing that he's is experiencing is spiritual and part of that comes in the fact that he's openly rejected Christ and at at at some level not like not in an atheistic sort of way but he's basically said he's like he's too afraid and he's basically just he's he's he's camping out. And I don't see what he's experiencing now and that as as a coincidence. I don't see I don't see that as a coincidence at all. I think they're directly related to each other.
>> Yeah.
>> You know, because you can only swipe away at the hand of your doctor for so long before you know you actually really start to experience the true sickness and the true nature of your sickness.
And that's exactly what Jordan Pearson is facing. And when you buy into that worldview, eventually that is what it leads you to. Maybe not ac not obviously acthesia, right? But like your demons will conquer you at some point because there is ultimately an assumption with that that like you can become the whole you can become perfect. That's the whole notion of like manifesting of the self is that it's like what these you know sort of quasi witchy people are always saying. It's like oh I can I can you know they're trying to manifest a goddess in themselves. It's this assumption that you can become divine and that is fundamentally antithetical to what actual Christianity says. You know, because theosis does not make you divine, you know, theosis doesn't make you divine. You simply partake in the life of Christ. You tune yourself to his frequency, but that does not mean that you're divine, basically. And so anyways, I digress just to say >> there's there is something there is something um unique with Lynch's films I think that other filmmakers sort of strive to achieve and that's Jason was talking about this earlier about the moment when you know the at the end of the film you know when there's this like uh moment of sort of pure beauty and I think that that's something hard to achieve in films and something that Lynch tends to do well I that that he has these I don't know archetypal moments or moments of pure emotion or something that are go beyond fact or narrative and they end up >> with pure like a pure spirit of the moment.
>> Yeah.
>> So like there's pure terror.
>> Yeah. There's pure euphoria, there's beauty, there's uh there's terror, there's chaos, there's >> I mean nobody really does like dissociation like Lynch does. I mean, Twin Peaks Firewalk with me, like, you know, having a totally different character embody the spirit of, >> you know, the dad or whatever, um, is is crazy. I mean, that's just like, >> you know, or or when the when the nuke goes off in, um, in Twin Peaks, you know, when we see that long extended shot of the atomic bomb. I mean that's like cinematic pure uh destruction which is not I mean that moment is to me is better than the entire um Oenheimer film >> as far as the the subject matter.
>> It's ethereal and it's the moment that always I always remembered was in like I think it was like the second to last episode when like um what's her face? The waitress and Big Ed, what was the waitress's name in Twin Peaks? What was her name? Uh, Shelly.
Shel was the younger one, but it was the older one. Norma, Maddie, what what was her name? It was Norma, right?
>> Norma.
>> Norma.
>> Yeah, Norma.
>> Okay. That scene when Ed basically when he finally like, you know, leaves uh whatever her name, eye patch lady, and then um and then he tries to go to Norma and she acts and then he just is sitting there like distraught. And then but then she leave. She decides to forego whatever it was she was going to do. and just goes with him. That's exactly what you were talking about. That is like I don't think I've ever actually especially because like the song they had playing in the background they were playing that um um I can't stop loving you live by Otis Reading from uh Monterey. Like there's never been I don't think I've ever seen something on television that did have that that capture that euphoric sense more than that. You know >> what's the name of the creepy crawly demon spirit in Twin Peaks? What's that dude's name at the head?
>> Which one? The mini one. The little guy.
The one that talks about.
>> It's the arm.
>> Bob.
>> Yeah. Thank you, Jason. Yeah, Bob.
>> Yeah. Got got a light.
>> Got a light.
>> Um, hang on. Before we go into Twin, I know we've already spent like a whole hour on Blue Velvet, but uh at the very end, there is a scene that I think sort of before the before the uh the restoration climax, beautiful ending. uh you have sort of the darkest moment where Jeffrey confronts Frank, right?
And he and he kills Frank. Uh spoiler alert. And um I I just thought it was incredible symbolism that David wo all the elements of the film into this one scene where Frank is, you know, sort of searching around the apartment looking for Jeffrey because he's been tuning in on the police radio, right? and and and he's got the blue velvet draped over his silenced pistol and and and the the pistol is silenced. Okay, so the cutting off of the ear, you know, ties in with that. Um and uh he's looking for him and Jeffy's in the closet armed with one of Frank's own goons guns and he shoots Frank in the head and and I was thinking about that pistol draped with the blue velvet over it and I thought that's that's weird, right? like if you were if you were trying to get rid of somebody, you wouldn't take the time to like drape blue velvet over your handgun. Uh you're not hiding the pistol in any way. It's it's just there as purely like this weird symbolic like uh uh uh combination. And I was thinking about Frank and how he's become so inverted like you know obviously uh a a pistol uh could be thought of as sort of you know a male organ uh and normally that's a creative generative organ but he has been inverted. So his is of destruction, right? And so it's draped in blue velvet, which is often associated with like corpse skin, you know, it's dead, it's it's it's moldy, uh, you know, and he's got, you know, and and so I just thought that I just wanted to mention that symbolism because I don't think people appreciate like all the psychological stuff aside, all the all that stuff aside, the visual symbolism that David uh that's what gets me hooked on his work. That's what I find the most interesting. uh and uh you know because for me this is my opinion art good art art is uh whether it's film music uh painting whatever it poems anything they're contemplative objects they engage our consciousness you know uh we have to navigate through this thing we have to look at it we have to perceive it we have to you know uh and so when I see uh these visual sort of symbolic layers like condensing like they're introduced to us through the film separately but then they all condense into like one image that to me is like yes chef's kiss that is beautiful like I love seeing that you know >> yeah the culmination well the thing about and I don't really blame Roger Eert for saying what he said about the film I mean all this talk about you know bringing the demonic to the four um and there's you know Jeffrey um kind of embarking on this voyerism and it kind of makes us feel like we're like we want to see it too. We want to see what happens. We want to be complicit in a way and um that's that's the sickening part of it and I I appreciate art in that way but I don't think it shouldn't exist for that matter but I don't have to like it you know. Um >> no that's a great point.
>> That's a that's a really good point. I like that. Um, and it makes me think of, you know, Jeffrey in the closet sort of peering in on this this scene of of this stuff happening. And it's almost like like we were saying earlier, you know, he's he's often depicting sort of the internal of a person, right? And it's sort of how we, you know, if you think about it, it's how we are in our mind, right? We're sort of in the closet of our mind watching our thoughts. We're watching all these thoughts coming and going and we're like, "What the heck?
Why did I think that?" Or, "Oh man, this is a nasty thing." Or, you know what I mean? And so like it's like we're all like Jeffrey Bumont in the closet in our own brain watching like Frank Booth and Dorothy's go crazy in our own brains, you know, like like I I just think that's interesting, you know?
>> The dude with the video camera right in Lost Highway like filming the mother.
>> Exactly. Exactly. And and that's a great point B because in the movie he you know he's remember the guy's like who are you? He's like, "I'm you." You know, he's like, "Call call call your number."
And it's his number. You know, it's like he it's it's this weird rep, you know, that's what makes Lynch so confusing, I think, because uh we we're not tying it back to his core ethos, his worldview, which is basically this fixation with consciousness and how it works inside you, you know, and how, you know, a lot of times, and this kind of goes to this dualistic oscillation that he plays with so much is, you know, you are simultaneously a thinker and the experiencer of the thought, Right? And so, and this is why dream is such a metaphor for him because when you dream, right, uh, you know, the science says, you know, it's something to do with like your conscious and subconscious. Uh, the veil between them sort of is removed and now you're in this like weird weird loop of like your brain is creating it, but you're also experiencing it as if it's foreign to you. And so there's, you know, I think I think that's what the core of his work is doing. It's exploring that phenomenon, that mystery of consciousness.
>> Yeah. Like removing the veil. I know me and John, we we talked about this with um >> we were talking about um like gosh, what were we talking about? We were talking about the the spiritual realm, like the aerial realm.
>> Yeah. Passion was saying that like God puts a veil on us because we're not ready to see like the reality of things.
>> It's it's one of the Yeah. It's why it's why when um immediately after you're baptized, you are crisismated and the spots that the priest will crisismate on you are all like I've heard Father Turbo talk about this and it's basically like it's your entry points, right? The ears, the eyes, the mouth, the hands, the nose, the neck, right? They're entry point basically. And it is like it is imbuing you with the Holy Spirit. But it is also like and at the same time it's like a defensive wall that's being put up you know um because it is not something that you really should be viewing even. It's not something that you should be you don't want like >> you know you don't want to see what's on the other side. You don't you know what I mean? Like you don't want to see what's beyond the veil. It's not pretty.
It's not something even things that are like >> handle the truth.
>> You can't handle that. Exactly. Exactly.
[laughter] >> Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think something >> um I think about this I think about this with I think about this like >> No. Yeah. I just I think about >> obviously you guys know I'm a cat guy, right? So I think about this with cats.
It's like cats can see like just think about the weird stuff that cats do all the time. Like they can see like 90 times more of the light spectrum than we can or something crazy like that. And it's like I know my my priest had mentioned met the time. He's like, "Yeah, they can see demons. They can see angels. they can see everything and a lot of times when you see them just like swiping at stuff or they start acting weird or they start looking like they're defending you from like weird stuff.
It's like those things are just there all the time. It's like you don't want to know what's just what's really beyond that. That's part of the reason why this stuff is so dangerous because it's basically you're entering into something that is inviting those things in. And once you take a bite out of that apple, you don't there's no going back for better or for worse, you know? So, >> yeah. And that's like Jeff.
>> And I think that's why Lynch I've made the >> Sorry. Hope I'm not >> Hope I'm not I keep having audio issues.
So hopefully I'm not uh like Is somebody else?
>> You're good.
>> I can hear you. You're good. You're good.
>> You're good. Okay. I keep having to switch audio inputs and so I'm hope I'm not like talk is I'm getting different people's audio on different uh settings.
Anyway, but I think you know I've made the case before that Lynch even though Lynch I mean from everything we know about him did not have any kind of Christian beliefs. I think that Lynch is sort of I wouldn't call him a Christian filmmaker, but I think the ideas that he's putting forth that the the spiritual aspect of it is realistic and it does it is in line with Christian belief because you know you you see where people it's like you know if we go back to um like Twin Peaks you know where where Leland is talking about you know this this spirit comes to him when he's a child and it's just like hey you know do you like fire or whatever and it's that that sort of opening the door to it and you sort of go down this cuz nobody nobody starts out nobody just like wakes up one day possessed, right? It's like there's there's a great you have to make these choices and these choices send you down this path and you know people find themselves at a point doing things that would have been completely unthinkable you know however much time you know days whatever before and you sort of get dragged down for or you're not really dragged you're sort of letting yourself go further and further until you completely have you know no control and that these these entities um you know they they sort of they they feed off of in in Twin Peaks they kind of literally feed off of the pain and fear and terror and misery um of of others you know usually innocent people and so um I so there is that kind of real aspect of of that you know spiritual reality of how dangerous this is and and what you can what you can find what a a person can find himself or herself getting into, you know, when they when they open themselves up to this and uh so yeah, even though I think it is kind of uh it is sort of in line, I think with with you know, Christian ideas of that despite him not being, >> you know, to to what extent he was aware of Christian theology, I I have no idea.
But um yeah, I had more on that. Now I'm I'm blanking out on it, but yeah. So, but I think people get what I'm saying.
>> You bring up a very good point though and that's Father Turbo's talked about this immensely that it's like people who are it's part of the reason why a lot of people who enter who are like from an occultic background when they end up joining the church a lot of times they like they kind of just get with the program immediately because they've already experienced spiritual warfare.
And that's I think part of the reason why um you know Lynch has there's there's things that are accurate about his about how he depicts the spiritual warfare because he is basically depicting that. The problem is that he doesn't necessarily realize I think I wouldn't give him the credit that he realizes that's what he's depicting.
Nonetheless though, he's simply just reporting back what's coming to him. And it's like, you know, like, you know, God's thumbrint and and and and nature itself bears witness to the fact of reality, to the fact of God, and to the fact of how things are laid out. And the spiritual warfare is basically the the the the name of the game that we experience. And that's what that is. And so, you know, it's like what David Boy said, I've been to one of their meetings above a convenience store. We live inside a dream.
>> That's like my favorite part.
>> I have a lot to say about that scene, actually.
>> Yeah. No, that's that scene goes I have a I have a t-shirt. I have I actually do have a t-shirt. Shameless plug. I do have a t-shirt from some company out of Austin. And it's like it's just it's just McGloin and David Lynch and David Bowie just like a pose of the three of them with a picture like a big giant picture of Dwight Eisenhower behind them. And it's it's so hard. And that scene, even though it's even though Bowie's only in there for five minutes in the director's cut, it's so hard. It goes so hard. And then the scene when they Yeah, it's it goes so hard. But like you brought it up, Maddie, it's like it's they feed off pain and suffering. They have to literally they're always going after that Garmin Bozia, but in the last scene that the arm and Bob are in together with, they legitimately like, you know, they like, I want my Garmin Boa, and it says it's pain and suffering. And that's basically what it is. These things feed off the pain and suffering of us just like Wow.
Isn't that interesting? Just like actual demons do. Isn't that weird? No. You know, you know. So, >> so why is it that we are all orthodox and um we really like these David Lynch films? Why do you think that is? Well, I agree with Maddie that, you know, this is the they they're they're touching on the core of reality, you know, the the mystery this mystery of existence, of consciousness, of our nature. Uh, you know, um, and I think Maddie set it up beautifully, uh, when he was talking about, you know, no one no one just wakes up possessed. you you sort of you make decisions and compromises and and before you know it, you're you know, you're falling, right? And and it made me think of that scene in Firew Walk with me when um uh Laura and Donna after school, they're they're in the living room, they're both laying on the couches or whatever on the furniture, and D uh or uh Laura's explaining a dream she had to Donna about, you know, have you ever had a dream where you're falling through space and you just keep going faster and faster until you light on fire? You know, and it speaks to this idea of uh being ungrounded and the momentum and the inertia of life and the illusion just taking you away and and before you know it, you're you're in flames, you know? And it and look at Frank Booth, right? He's running he's running so desperately from from the good and and the truth and the grounding, right? That he he's this man is literally like on fire. Like he's just miserable, you know?
and and I think it's it's it's excellent and even the title fire walk with me, right? Uh it uh it it speaks to this idea of sort of uh for me I interpret fire walk with me as you know taking in the context of all the other mentions of fire in the series and things. I think what it's saying is, you know, it's sort of uh a a good metaphor might be the the holy fire from from the holy sepiler.
You know, uh people are holding the fire up to their faces. It's not burning them. It's it's it's a tame fire. It's a purifying fire. It's it's it's not a devouring fire, right? And and so I think fire is sort of this universal symbol, but it can be interpreted from either perspective. You know, it speaks more to that sort of dual gnostic idea that Lynch has in all of his work. And uh you know what I one thing I noticed that speaks to this this interplay of sort of the lower perspective of duality and then the higher perspective where the duality is sort of uh resolved or unified if you will um is is uh are you guys familiar with a Brais?
>> Yeah. The Santana album. [snorts] >> [laughter] >> Yeah. Well, well, uh, the Gnostic the Gnostic facilities >> and snake thing, right?
>> Yeah. It's like Yeah. So, the Gnostic facilities, I can't remember what century, like 3rd century, something like this. Uh, or BCE uh or 300 B.CE.
some something like that. uh he had this conception called a brais where where you have uh the symbol of it is is basically it's like a rooster head and then a man's body wearing armor with like a whip and then it's got like two serpentine legs underneath of it. Yeah, there you go. Yeah, it just like the baffiment. Yep. It embeds the same ideas. Uh so the rooers's head, right?
That's that's the that's the higher consciousness. That's sky. Uh you know, it's a bird. uh sky. Um and then the serpents, you know, they slither on the ground. They eat the dust, you know? So, so you have sort of the the high realm and the low realm, but they're unified in the form of a man, right? So, each man, we have both of these capacities within us, both of these natures within us, right? Uh we're sort of these base beastial animal creatures at the same time as we also have this capacity for for correction and higher consciousness.
Uh, and so that's what that symbol is sort of embedding. And, and what I noticed, uh, when I was watching Twin Peaks, I actually have some visual aids here. Uh, my my eyes are gay, so I have visual aids. Um, but, uh, uh, see this uh, first symbol right here? Can you guys see that? Okay.
>> Yeah.
>> This one here, that's an Arais rune. So you see how it's got the A B R A X A S Arais and that to me when I saw the welcome to Twin Peaks sign it's two mountains one of them slightly overlapping the other so that that sort of X triangular pattern is embedded in in in the welcome to Twin Peaks uh sign and I was like okay because I recognized that the A subrais thing because I was familiar with it from yeah my past life uh if you will and um and so then I started looking into Arais and what it represents and and this it's a deity of duality is what it is it's a gnostic deity of duality um and then then I started thinking about it I'm like well come to think of it look look at the owl cave rune look at the odal rune and then you have the experiment which is on the scuffed ace card of Mr. see in season 3, which is basically like a a weird version of the owl cave rune, right? Um, and so I was like, "Wow, all these all this cuz you know, runes ties into uh you know, in the Great Northern Hotel, the the Norsemen businessmen are there and Ben Horn is trying to get these Norsemen to invest in Twin Peaks uh in a development called Ghostwood."
And uh so I was like okay so there you know we have the Nordic rune references you know I'm seeing runes inside the imagery you know I'm thinking about all this stuff and the odal rune it basically represents to uh I think what it represents is uh possession inheritance um uh things like that like uh uh estate um so it's speaking to like uh uh ownership ship over a land or or an inheritance of a thing or or possession of a thing, right? But you but when you watch Twin Peaks, you know, you think about how these you have this town Twin Peaks uh or in Mohalland Drive, you have the town of Hollywood and there seem to be these spiritual energies that that regional spirits if you will, right?
This this is probably why the pagans had what they had, right? like every region and everything had its own deity, this own spiritual sort of overlord over it.
Um, and and Ben Horn is trying to get these guys to like develop this place. Um, but I just think it's interesting that uh with with with what you can glean from sort of thinking about these symbols and and you know, possession, right?
Obviously, Twin Peaks is about possession, demonic possession, rather than possession of property or something. It's it's it's spirits possessing people, right? Uh and and the estate is the town, Twin Peaks, you know, u and stuff like that. But, um I just thought that was an interesting thing that might cause someone to to have some thoughts, you know what I mean?
I like >> I just feel like a Brais is the name of the uh the guy who was the cashier at the Popeye's I went to today. But [laughter] just seems like it just seems like that his name would have been a bra. He see he looked like his name was a Brais. I'm not going to say why. It just that seems like it just seems like his name he looked like anist to me. I don't know why. is anyways >> I liked your post about the the like the power lines and how it looks like the Abraisa symbol or the room.
>> Oh yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
>> Again about these like Go ahead. Go ahead.
>> Yeah. If you go to my Instagram guys, uh I have a whole bunch of Twin Peaks uh posts on there full of interesting stuff.
Which one did you want to see?
>> I was just looking at them. I was looking at the Odell rune and then the the one in the middle, the al book of runes right here. Of course, I have a book that I wrote called runes.
>> Yo, what? Let me ask Jason. What's the um what what's the So, the one next to the owl cave. What's that? Cuz what is that? Because I've seen that like what what is that thing supposed to be? The Odal. What is that?
>> Odal rune.
>> What is that? Is it this one?
>> No, no, no, no. The other one. The other one. That one. Yeah. Yeah. What is that?
>> Yeah, that's the >> It's Odal or Othala.
>> Uh so if it's a Nordic rune, but the Germans uh used it. And what's interesting, and that's probably where you've seen it, uh because in modern times, you know, some like white supremacy groups uh use that symbol often. But but here's an interesting little tidbit about that rune. uh in so in the in the Third Reich they used uh that rune was the symbol for the seventh SS mountain division and you think of twin peaks mountains or a mountain dividing into two twin you know like there's like this I know that's a little reachy and that's skitso or whatever but I I find it interesting I I you know in my mind it's like there's got to be there's got to be something there you can you can mine out of that connection [laughter] you So, um, yeah, there, um, I'll tell you I'll tell you where I saw it up, uh, when the stream's done. I'll tell you I'll tell you where I saw it later. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Um, [clears throat] Moldi brought up the Bluetooth symbol, and that's kind of where I was going to go with this whole um, like Yeah, >> exactly. Um, and that's why I I really liked Lost Highway, but there was this big um use of like old like phones and like weird TVs and you know to channel I don't know parallel I don't know what you would call it because there's definitely like this circular chronological thing that happens in Lost Highway and um that was my favorite out of all of them definitely but um I don't know I I just like his use of like static and like video and you know signal and stuff like that.
>> Signal coming into a vessel. Yeah. Yeah.
>> And the the electrocution of the guy, whatever his name was, the man who went to prison and then he assumed this I don't know what you guys would say. Did he like did his identity go into that young man or what would you say happened in that movie?
>> Yeah. Well, that's actually farther than I thought before, like that his uh his spirit left his body and went into another person. That that is actually very interesting. Um, but uh I I think No, I think he just [laughter] he he uh well it makes me think of that movie Fallen with Denzel and you know many other movies where they sort of depict this idea of a spirit that you know it sort of wears a person like an outfit for a while does a bunch of crazy stuff and then it just leaves and goes into the next one and you know and it leaves like little calling cards to let you know it's it's this sort of like possessive spirit that's just sort of hopping from uh doll to doll or whatever. ever, you know. Um, but I think I think no, I think it's um similar to uh Mohalland Drive where it was just like a did break. Uh he he invented a new reality and the even in the invented new reality, the old truth is still bleeding into the fantasy. So that's why a lot of the elements are the same but slightly different, you know?
Like that's my take on it >> to me. like molehal and drive seemed like a total cope dream like this woman she really messed up her life she messed up her relationship with that lady I don't know if you would say that but um and so she has this dream where she has a different reality with her and there's this whole mystery thing but that was all a dream I feel like that that is what that movie was what would you guys say >> I don't know I can't I cannot stand a narrative where it was all a dream.
>> I know everything was a dream so cheap.
But I don't think Lynch does that. I think that his dreams it was all a dream is a waking dream.
>> It's a dream. It's dream like or it's a dream for the em you know what you were just saying about the embodied spirit or it was it seemed like a dream but it wasn't an actual you know night dream that you wake up from. A lot of Lynch I think is about like not being able to wake up from something. Certainly happens in Lost Highway. It's like I'm I'm there with you right now but I'm also here. you know, all that stuff.
It's like, how is that possible? But it seems somehow truthfully possible in terms of the sort of split that occurs uh in the narrative. But also, Blood Logos, you were going to say something a little while ago. You mind if I if I ask him about this? You were going to say that you had a take on something we were talking about and I was hear what it was.
>> Yeah. Yeah. John mentioned the convenience store scene in Firewalk with me and uh I think that's the key to the entire series. It explains um it explains the meta commentary.
Um I think there's more than just his usual uh themes. Um I think it's a I I didn't originate this idea, but uh I do agree with it that uh it's a meta commentary on um on television itself and it's uh it's like a self-aware TV show, if that makes sense.
Um, >> and and David Lynch uh is playing himself in the show. He's the director and he's also the FBI director.
>> Um, and there's a lot of uh there's just tons and tons of symbolism that points to that. Um, not just in that scene. Um, >> is that is that why he has the hearing aid in uh Twin Ps?
>> I think it's like a director communicating with >> Yeah. and he's yelling when, you know, when he talks. Um, >> my my background is the Black Lodge and uh the tiling is static on a television.
>> Um, there's a lot of scenes where um closeups close-ups on their face and you see light flashing. It's like they're watching a television.
Um, they and in the the return they return to the real world through electrical outlets.
Um there's just so much stuff like that that uh that points to that >> that makes so much I never I've been I' I mean I've been watch I've been a like avid Twin Peaks guy for like like over a decade at this point. I never never once considered the the static >> thing audio when the when the nuke goes off. Isn't there the sound of static? I never there's a heavy sound. Yeah.
[clears throat] I mean, >> remember take credit for that, but >> you remember in Firewalk me with the scene when Mike drives up to Leland and Laura's in the car >> and like this happens other points throughout the movie too. Um like they have a shouting match with each other, but there is like a slow sort of like static sound that's happening in the background, you know? Mhm.
>> Um they always it's it's always paired with the um >> the the smoke smell cuz someone will be like it smells like burning oil in here or something. But there's like a lot of points in that I think there's other points where that static sound accompanies it as well. So that's actually that's >> there's tons and tons of stuff. Um the convenience store scene I think they say um >> the uh are you talking you're talking about the scene with David Boy? Not talking about the one where it's actually in the convenience store and it's like, you know, >> it's when they're in the convenience store and the >> Yeah. From pure the one where the where the arm is like from pure air. That one.
>> Exactly. Air.
>> Yeah. Yeah.
>> We descended from uh from the air or something like that.
>> You you've seen you've seen logos, blood logos. You've seen Rob Ager's um Kiss on Space Odyssey, right? I'm guessing. Have you seen >> I don't think so. No.
>> No. Okay. That's because it's interesting because he brings up almost the exact same point that you do just in a different sense which is that the that's the thing the the the the monolith in space odyssey is meant to be a because the reason why the dimensions are the same. The dimensions of the monolith are basically a movie screen that's been flipped on its head, which also, by the way, is the same dimensions as a tele as a cell phone also. So, the phones that we're all using right now have the exact same dimensions as the monolith does. But back then, it was the tele the widescreen television uh or or movie thing that was just flipped up like this. Um and basically the point that Ager makes is that um you know the the point he's making is is that what C argument is that Kubric's um underlying symbol for that is that film and television are kind of like a he doesn't use these words. I think BLA you've used this words or Isaac Weissop has used these words where it's like it's a it's pointing to it's an alchemical reaction basically.
>> Yeah. Stone. It's a philosopher stone.
Exactly. That is leading to a change in the psyche of the person that's watching it. Like it's essentially stating it's it's an argument that the that the the medium is a spellcast basically and the effect that it has causes a change from one thing to another basically. He also he also says that the the climax of you know the end of the film when the guy is you know Jupiter and beyond when he's in like the weird setting that you know and he ages like fast and he's like there's weird sort of uh French furniture and he's like inside he's lying in the bed then he turns into the moonchild.
>> That's essentially like the >> the entities or like the watchers of the beings version of like it's kind of like a television set version of his life. So they put all the things there in the room that are going to be >> like things that the guy can grasp to like sort of that's his life to make him comfortable. It doesn't make sense cuz it's like a glass, you know, interior version of this weird antique furnitureed place and that's where they, you know, that's where they transform him into the moonshot to send him back >> is what Agger says. And it turns and it's and and the the end result is you become a like you lose yourself. That's the >> it's a McLuhan.
>> Yeah. It's it's a Marshall McLuhan way of of looking at the importance of television as this sort of >> medium that affected people in a way where there's always a thing >> in films that you know a lot of people do this thing where they like go into the television.
>> Yeah.
>> It sort of sucks you in. It makes sense because it they had vacuum tubes, you know, um >> the old televisions and like Edgar does the same thing with the Pulp Fiction >> uh watch analysis where you know Butch is like watching the TV at the beginning. got the Eskimo on there and that there's the sort of sound of television and like it's like it's his version of Vietnam when he sneaks back into the apartment to get his watch and come back out >> because it's a a sort of televised uh war in which he's playing the role of the protagonist in his own television show in life.
>> Yeah.
>> Which I think matches blood luggage your thing about about Lynch >> and this weird hypnotic effect that television has on us and and as a it's a medium.
>> Yes. It's a it's a it's a uh it's a it it is I think that's thing is like and it goes back to the fact that like the fact that he has this occultic sort of background. It's like it's not a it's probably not a coincidence that this is sort of the thing that he's hinting at basically, you know, cuz you're I think you're exactly right, dude. It's like Yeah. It's like the the fact that it's like these things come from static. They say they're basically come from electricity, right? What's the first thing in the nuke scene when those when the god of light guy where does he go?
He doesn't what does he go to do? He doesn't go to like, you know, he >> turns videootapes.
>> He go No, whatever. He go he goes to a radio broadcast. He starts like putting out like MK Ultra freaking it's he's like doing the uh the the the >> Batswana Batswana Alpha do anything.
>> It's the black it's the Call of Duty Black Ops. It's the n it's the numbers Mason. It's the ex he's doing he's bas he's basically doing Yeah. He's doing activation codes basically, right? He's doing that. He's doing subliminal messaging into a radio, right? At the time when that was the primary sort of consumption of the media consumption apparatus of the American people. Um, you know, so it's like they they're they incantations come into life and the first thing that they do is to go um to the uh the media source as it were, right? To the thing that goes beyond your gate, right? to go beyond your your your veil essentially that breaks through the veil. You know, >> I think the uh the TV thing ties into the whole b theme of balance uh as well.
Um because he said in he's said in interviews that at the time um he hated television. Um that it was you know just uh violence meant made to be consumed and uh the murder was solved in an hour and you forget about it later that night.
>> Um so he wanted to balance that.
>> Yes. It's like that's that's the it's the um >> it's why he quit the show is because they made him >> they made they made him have to solve the uh solve the killer. Exactly. Which is also Yeah. Which is also part of the reason why he wanted the killer to be something that was outside of you know the person solved it was something that was ethereal basically that was all-encompassing. It's also Yeah. part of the reason why when he made Firew walk with me, he made it about the leadup to Laura Palmer's death and not about, you know, solving the larger mystery or like what happened to Cooper or anything like that because he wanted that to be the final standing point of the piece itself was to be like >> the memory of this person is the thing that actually haunts this place and that is the thing that needs to be remembered is the it's the the the the haunting sort of you know it's like it's like in the shining. It's like it's like the it's like what it's like what what's his face doesn't shine. Sometimes something so bad happens that's so bad in a place that the place starts shining because of it. All right. Like like places can be places can be you know um like it's like what Ros said it's like it's the bad memory of a town that's fading. It's fading fast. It's like you know a memory can stick in a place even if you've never been there. You can go and you can feel the vibe of a place and it's bad.
talking about Skyman Kathers. [laughter] >> I have ice cream. Ice cream. I GOT ALL KINDS OF ICE cream here. Got chocolate ice cream. We got We got pin. We got everything. Yeah.
>> I have a direct Laura Palmer quote that uh relates to that. Um when she's talking to Agent Cooper uh in the Black Lodge uh in the return um she says, "I am dead yet I live."
And uh >> that's okay. That's again, you know what? Okay, bro. Let me tell you something. That is that's really part of my friend. That's [ __ ] up. You know why? Because again, going back to the fact like he's what Lynch does. He opens himself up to he opens himself up to the demonic, right? And like in many ways the black lodge is just hell, right? You know? Yeah. So, you know who else said that like in real life? So, like several saints have said that to people after they've died basically. The most important of which being St. John Maximovich actually said that to someone after he died. He visited someone. He someone saw him in a dream and he said, "I know I'm dead, but yet I am dead yet I am alive." basically which is again goes to the fact that like a lot of this stuff you asked earlier Meloa why do we find these things so attractive part of it it's probably because you know obviously before because not all of us I don't think any of us here was born orthodox we all came into it we sort of gravitated to this stuff in our past life it's also because again this stuff it does you know maybe by accident but it does you know in someense accidentally show the truth of the matter of of the spiritual war. And I think that's an example of it. So that's very interesting. I did not realize that whole thing that she said, but that's again goes to the fact that many of this stuff is an inversion of the, you know, of the truth of things, you know, what God has put forward to us. So >> on the flip side of that, I mean, I think that yeah, the the quote, the Laura Palmer quote that Blood Logos mentioned is very interesting because that's something I have heard from uh people who have you know maybe undergone like severe trauma from like abuse and things like that is is people you know have described feeling like there's there's feeling of like not being quite human or feeling like as if you're dead but still alive. There's this kind of like >> psychological I guess break that happens. Um and I' I've actually heard people put it that way of feeling like being the living dead. And um so I think that that speaks to >> Yeah. like just how evil the like the depths of evil that Lynch is um you know talking about in in his in his you know shows and films of of like what what those uh people under the influence of those spirits are willing to do to like put a person in that kind of state >> psychic vampires.
>> Yes. I want to me I want to mention >> what's up Jason >> I was just gonna say that's exactly just just to pull off what Matt said.
>> Have you guys ever you guys remember the movie Mystic River? Remember that movie?
>> Yeah.
>> You guys have seen that, right?
>> Yeah. Okay.
>> Yeah. Well, no. Fair enough. Fair enough. It's >> the present.
>> Yeah. It's a street. Yeah. Very, very messed up. But there is a scene where Danny who the the movie opens up with and this is like takes place in this like the movie opens up in the 60s in like Dorchester in some like you know Irish neighborhood in Souy and you know the kid goes into the into the car of um a Catholic priest who does you know what Catholic priests were notorious for doing back then in Boston back in those days. Um, and so the guy grows up and he says, you know, you know, not to give away the whole spoil of the movie, but the guy finds Skinners. Skinner is a Chapo or someone who does reprehensible things to children, right? He finds Skinners and he kills them basically.
And he says to his wife, he's like, "I feel like I'm a vampire because I go around at night. I don't even feel like I'm a person anymore. And I do things I'm not even sure if I'm doing them half the time." And it's exactly like what you said, Maddie. It's like, you know, that that's a that is a real state that people go through. A traumatic event, a true true trauma is in many ways, it's why, you know, the idea is a thing and it's why, you know, the the powers that be use that to mold the people they want into what they want them to do because it breaks the person and the only thing that can actually heal the person from that is God. It's also it's fun fundamentally why the reason why if a person doesn't have Peterson always made this point young kind of made a point like this. It's one of the underlying principles of the 12 steps and it's really it's true because the only thing that can actually bring a person back or create them into something or rebuild them into something new is Christ when that happens. And if they don't have that, you end up with a person like Doyle from uh uh uh from Mystic River. You end up with, you know, Laura Palmer. You end up with some other sort of, you know, not just even a broken person, you end up with the living dead, basically.
>> Yeah, I agree. Well, on to Mattiey's idea about this between two worlds situation.
Um, the the owls in Twin Peaks and what they represent and sort of the the rune on the ring, the owl cave rune. Uh, you remember the arm, he says, uh, this is a for micica table, a green for micica table. And then you look at the ring and it almost looks like it's made out of green for micica. And then I was thinking like okay well for for Micah is like a it's a uh it's an electrical insulator. So you know you have all these themes of like electric signals and magnetic or radio signals as metaphor of like spiritual influence or or uh you know what frequency someone's on, right? and and the fact that this ring has this uh electrical insulator and uh how the arm or Mike uh who's missing the arm uh he only has one arm and and if anyone knows this like when when you put your hands together you're you're closing an electrical circuit in your body and and so it kind of speaks to this idea of prayer right uh prayer you know sending the signal right and and this guy has one arm he literally can't close the circuit so he has to wear this ring with an insulator to like uh uh represent this like weird uh uh repelling of a signal or something. Um but anyway, the alloc room uh and of course Meloy, you mentioned it, it represent it looks just like the electrical towers along a highway. uh if you look at the structure of them and then owls uh and of course you know Native American animism this comes into Twin Peaks because you have Deputy Hawk who's a Native American and he's always sort of giving his insight on happenings. He's sort of seen as sort of this wise spiritual guy amongst the the sheriff department. Uh so owls in Native American animism are messengers of death seen as spirits of the departed. Natives interpret the owls call as calls of the lost soul searching for the afterlife and viewed as figures bridging the gap between the living and spirit world embodying the mysteries of the night serving as a reminder of death. And then in fire walk with me the arm he says you know electricity from pure air from pure air we have descended intercourse between the two worlds fire walk with me and so speaking to this whole idea of like you know stuck in the middle with you right you know clowns to the left meet jokers to the right there's there's these two mysterious crazy worlds that we're sort of in the middle of and and all these things are are sort of speaking to this idea of uh connection or or bridging the gap in some Um, and then another interesting thing I just want to throw in real quick. I thinking about the owls, uh, I I was like, you know what? I want I wonder if uh, scripture mentions owls. Uh, because of course that's always, you know, um, you know, you think David Lynch is good at civilism, you should read the Bible.
That that thing is dang. Um but uh [laughter] uh so I was uh so I found this verse Isaiah 34:14. Uh and it speaks to this idea of like uh lands being inhabited by spirit and and sort of the fruits of that land are going to reflect the spirit inhabiting it. Right? Same with trees. You know, you have your you you know Mark and Galatians, you know, you have the you know uh good fruit and bad fruit uh you know tree parables, right?
Um but uh in Isaiah 34:14 it says, "The wild beasts of the desert shall also meet with the wild beasts on the island, and the sader shall cry to his fellow.
The screech of the owl also shall rest there, and find herself a place of rest.
There shall the great owl make her nest, and lay and hatch, and gather under her shadow. There shall be vultures also be gathered, everyone with her mate." And so I looked up uh the Hebrew for this word referring to owls.
And uh uh let me see here.
The Hebrew word for or the Hebrew word is uh liit. Lilith, often translated as night creature or night owl, but is also connected to like Babylonian folklore, Jewish folklore. regarding a female demon.
And so, you know, you have you have this whole situation with these owls and this owl cave and the lodges and surrounding Laura Palmer. And you remember that scene where she's like palefaced with the black lips screaming, you know, she's almost like become this like demonic entity at this point. Um and and and in that verse I found interesting because uh it says uh uh some translations use sed goat demons referring to wild goatlike creatures that in context represent the demonic chaotic nature of the ruined land. The desert creatures, hyenas, wild goats, and night monster represent the complete abandonment of the land by humans, making it a haunt for unclean spirits and beasts. The imagery emphasizes that the land will be left entirely to the forces of darkness and desolation. A stark contrast to a civilized inhabited land.
And and of course when when when they talk about like when when I think of lands being described symbolically, I I also think of a person, right? Because God, you know, lifted up the dirt and breathe life into it. We are the land, you know. Uh uh and so it's this idea of like if if you if you don't prune your prune your tree and feed your tree in inside here, you know, you're going to start bearing bad fruit and and all that rottness and you know, vultures are going to start nesting in there and next thing you know, it's just like this abandoned desolate wasteland where the demons rule, right? It's a metaphor for lands and people, right? Uh what do you guys think of that?
>> True. It's 100% true. If you do not put like something will again it's another point that father turbo always makes it's like you know if you know we don't you know worship Christ we will worship something else but this is something even young and Peterson and all these people like recognize it's like there's a natural religious inclination and it's like if we don't put it towards the proper thing something else will be put in its place basically you know and you know >> you know it's it's yeah it's the interesting thing is like I was thinking about this it's like what um Bob said in the in the you know to go back to Blood Logos here well he's he's AFK but um to go back to what you said [snorts] Blood Logos concerning like you know the meta commentary from the black liv scene the one thing that I always stuck out about that um with what Bob said the one the only line that he actually says in that whole scene is I have the like after the for mica ring is presented basically right um or the the table and then the ring appears, you know, um, and the garbose appears. Bob says to the arm, I have the fury of my own momentum, right?
And then that's when, you know, the arm presents him with the with this wing. I the wed, right? Which essentially is the Yeah. It's the it's the it's the inclination that like okay this ring now is the the the centerpiece which it becomes now the centerpiece for not only the movie but also for later on season 3. That's the thing that allows the transport between anyways >> I have the fury of my own momentum. All right. We're looking at a Satan character. We're looking at a demonic sort of a literal demon here. And it's interesting that like you know what >> in his dream exactly he's the thing that encamps inside of the father right of her father I should say not the father but her father right I am the fear of my own momentum basically it means to say it's like I my own sin is the thing that's driving me right it's the the whole notion of the bottomless pit is a representation of the bottomless pit that's what sin is like that's >> the abyss exactly exactly The abyss of stairs. Yeah. The [ __ ] abyss as as Jim Ley would have called it, right?
>> Stare. If you stare long enough into the [ __ ] abyss, it shits back into you or whatever it's called. I don't know. So yeah, that's exactly that's the he is the he is the in he is the incantation.
That's because that's what sin does.
Like that's >> the firewalk is >> that's what the firewalk is. Exactly.
The calling out between two worlds because you made that point Jason. And it's like, yeah, it could be like the holy flame, but that's the, you know, the dualism again, you know, dualism of lanchel also indicates it's like the shouting out, the magician shouting out between two worlds. Really, it could very well be someone shouting out from hell, fire, walk with me. I realize that like maybe the second or third time I watch Twin Peaks. It's like that's not that's a command. He's not saying that.
He's not saying he's not he's commanding fire to walk with him. What kind of fire is it? You know, if you have to shout, I mean, it's like it's like it's like the rich man in Lazarus story, right? You know, he's calling out to Abraham from across the abyss, right? You know, and he's not calling out because he's, you know, he's not calling out because he he's he's he's in a place in the position of comfort, right? He's calling out because fire is walking with him, but not in the not in the sense of the holy flame, not in the sense of the it is in the sense of the he is he is experiencing the lake of fire. Fire is now a part of him and it is is consuming him, you know.
>> Yes. Yes. Well, what what do you think?
>> What were we gonna say?
>> Oh, no, no, I'm sorry. I don't mean to interrupt. Oh, >> I'm just saying that's what it means.
That's to me that's what the the fury of his own momentum basically means. That's the the other piece of the meta commentary with Bob to build off of what you were initially saying. Now, what what were you going to say after that?
Yeah.
>> Um I I was just going to say, you know, it makes me look at that scene where uh Gordon Cole comes to Twin Peaks and he and he's at the diner and he sees Shelly for the first time, you know, and he remember the famous uh you know, yes, sweetheart. You know, massive massive >> Yeah.
>> And he's like, "Uh, yes, please. My socks are on fire, sweetheart." You know, because he's walking he's walking with fire, right? Like his socks are on fire, you know? It's just like an interesting little little thing that they threaded in there. But one last thing I want to say before I let some of the other guys jump in here. It has to do with the formica. Um because you know in in season 3, you know, Cooper has this bizarre ace of spades with this like ant head looking thing on it, right? And and it's it's supposed to actually represent the experiment which which uh has to do with the nuclear explosion and the entity coming from the atom splitting tearing the space-time fabric and spewing out eggs and that's where Bob came from and the firemen and the woodsman and anyway uh with with For Micah I thought it was interesting because I looked up ants because I was thinking about that ace card and and there's a genus of ants called for mica ants and I was like what? This is crazy. And so so uh let me let me just read this real quick. Um okay uh so it is interesting that there's a genus of ants called for mica commonly known as wood ants, mound ants or field ants characterized by their predatory and scavenging behavior and building large mounds from thatch or soil. Their predatory nature helps control populations of other insects like sawfly larvae, bark beetles and termites. pest control of the woods, preventing outbreaks of tree damaging insects and and so of course Twin Peaks, it's full of uh Douglas furs and beautiful trees and fragrant trees. Uh and and these ants are are basically like pest control saving the trees. Um and people nervous systems are sort, you know, the blood vessels in your brain. All this stuff sort of represents, you know, trees, you know. Uh and and um I thought it was interesting because there's that scene in Firewalk with me in the beginning when they're investigating Terresa Banks and underneath the trailer is a little mound with the ring on top of it. the from the formica owl cave ring is on top of a mound, right? And these are mound making ants uh named for micica ants, right? So, I just thought that was like just I can't believe I discovered that connection and what it might mean. I mean, I think it's interesting.
>> Is that the same ring that Mike gives to Laura Palmer when she's >> Yep.
And it's the same ring that um I don't remember who it the guy gets killed and then he goes into the black lodge. His body winds up in the black lodge with it. I don't remember. He's like the henchman that initially shoots evil coupe. Right.
>> Um. Right.
>> And then yeah, it's like it it allows for transport between this world and the black lodge >> or something like that. I don't exactly remember how it went, but yeah. So yeah.
>> Yeah. Well, it's like I said, it's like a it's like >> it's an electrical insulator, so it must be some type of like uh wearable that allows you to tra traverse through the through the portals of these different >> spaces. Maybe.
>> I think it was where where she puts it on before she gets killed. Uh I think it stops Bob from possessing her. She's She's He's trying to possess her. Um and the ring prevents him from Dwayne, so he kills her.
>> Yeah, that's exactly it. That's exactly it.
>> Yeah, that's interesting.
>> No, go ahead. Go ahead.
>> That's all I was going to say. That's that's from what I understand about the symbolism of the ring, that's basically what it what it was. like he there's some property about the ring that prevents you from being taken over by Bob because of it >> and so >> Yes.
>> Yes.
>> Yeah.
>> Um did you guys know that the uh the distributor that Lynch used to distribute his films uh domestically is called Janice Films? The Roman twofaced god. Are you guys familiar with that?
>> Yeah.
>> Janice like Janice the lady that disappeared. the one that likes cheese sandwiches.
>> I mean that.
>> Yes. [laughter] >> She went to the woods.
>> That's crazy. That's crazy.
>> But but I thought it was interesting because Janice, you know, it's the god of uh like gateways and doorways and transitions and thresh, you know, it's like a threshold god or, you know, and it's sort of it's looking it's looking at the past.
>> Yeah. It's looking at the past and future simultaneously. It's also looking internally and externally simultaneously. So, I just thought that was interesting that even even the distribution company this guy's using maps on to like everything in the films, you know? It's crazy.
>> Yeah, he was a true skitso maxer, dude.
Like he is [laughter] he was that one continuous skits max, you know? Like that's who he was. Santos.
>> I can't tell the difference between real life and the movies, man.
>> That's right. That's why I had Dennis Hopper. [clears throat] That's right.
>> Exactly, dude.
>> Yeah.
>> Yes.
My favorite thing about David Lynch is the music. I like the Angelo Battle Lamente. Yeah.
>> That song. And you know, and Lynch has an album himself. It came out like in the 2010s.
>> He's got he's got an electro song, uh, >> Good Day Today. Anybody ever heard that song? It's It's going to be a good day today. It's one of his songs is a pretty driving like techno song.
>> Um, but I love that theme song. Moby took it. A bunch of people have taken it. Um, Angelo Bamenti took it for um, he used partially the same theme by the way for the movie The Beach. You guys have seen that. Um, it has the same. He was the same guy. So he sort of, >> you know, he sort of cannibalized his own theme to use for that movie. But I really like that. That's like my favorite part of the whole thing is the intro is the is the theme. Twin Peaks.
>> It's just so perfect.
>> Yes. The tone.
>> He utilizes music in an amazing way. And what I really liked about Dune, I know no one likes that one. Um, I kind of liked it. I know that he disowned it, but he did use Toto. And Toto is my favorite band, so [laughter] I love him.
>> Is awesome.
>> Yeah, >> that's >> Did you guys see Eraser Head? I haven't seen that in ages, but >> apparently it was about an abortion that he had. He had He didn't have the abortion.
He meant Yeah, he's he's said that in interviews. Um, >> and it was also uh so yeah, I apparently he had an abortion before his I think he has two children uh before they were born. And uh I heard him uh in an interview once saying how uh Eraser Head was sort of him dealing with the anxiety of bringing a life into this world. And of course, Lynch views the world as, you know, pain and suffering and, you know, uh, some type of gnostic, uh, simulation of hell. Uh, and so he was very, he was just grappling with intense, um, mor moral quandry, mystery in his own mind with bringing a life into the world and what that means and stuff like that.
And and that's why he depicted the baby as such a disgusting, vile creature that's very annoying and demanding. And uh the Henry, the main character, he has no idea what to do with this baby. The woman left and he's he's just like, "What? You know, this is awful, right?
It's like it's really kind of a you know, he always he always said that's my most spiritual film or whatever." It's like, "No, dude. That's your most dark film, dude. Like that's that's your most cynical dark film. I like and that's saying something because a lot of his films are very freaking cynical in ways, right?
>> It it's spiritual in that it's it's actually I will say this. I do think cuz I talked about this with Mano on one of his streams once where it's like I think that's I don't know if he if he means it this way but I can see how in that sense it is his most spiritual film because at least >> him grappling Yeah. Racer head. is him grappling with the guilt he feels of paying for the unaliving of his own child basically you know because it wasn't just like oh you know he actually I think paid for his girlfriend or whatever to happen and so that's what it was it was like him dealing with the guilt of that basically you know him trying to justify his own guilt >> to himself in that sense you know >> which is why >> I think that's one of the things that and obvious Obviously, you know, I'm not I'm not I'm not excusing abortion, but I think that that that sort of fear of uh of, you know, being being a which, you know, I'm not a parent, but I I think that that's that's you know, Lynch is somebody who's really hard to read because if you if you watch interviews with him, you know, he was this very kind of pleasant, affable, like folksy, small town, you know, the kind of guy you'd see, you know, sitting at the diner at in your in, you know, whatever.
small town. Um, but he, you know, made such like dark art and dark film. Um, and so it's it's hard to get a read on it, but I think something like that, it kind of makes him seem and not that he seemed inhuman, but it it makes him kind of human and and relatable. And the fact that, you know, if someone [snorts] does kind of have this fear of of being a parent, of having, you know, this new responsibility and then someone also kind of dealing with this, you know, guilt um of, you know, paying for an abortion. I mean, I think that that's something, you know, to to go and make like an entire, you know, film about that. I think that that's clearly something that that weighed very very heavily on him. it it would it would seem and and I think that's something that kind of makes him relatable and I think when you when you dig in there you can kind of dig through the you know contrast between the sort of affable personality and and the really dark uh the really dark artistic output that he had.
>> Yeah. I don't know if you guys saw this.
Um, it was like a Vice documentary about Michael Rubert, the guy who wrote um, Crossing the Rubicon, and he went totally nuts, dude. He just went absolutely insane talking about how dark the world is and just how what an abomination it is. And I because this was before I had kids, right before I had kids, um I absolutely felt his his fear and anguish and I was like there's no way I can bring a child into this world and he actually turned to um American uh American Indian spirituality which kind of touches on this whole Twin Peaks thing but um and he ended up shooting himself in in the face with a shotgun. I don't know if you guys know about him. He was like a um he >> do you guys know the story of Michael Ripper?
>> He like uh outed the the FBI for you know running drugs and stuff like that.
Um he was he was a interesting character but I understand I understand David Lynch's um you know anguish for bringing a child into this world. Thank God I've never aborted a child. That's insane. I can't imagine what kind of guilt you feel from that. But um but it also kind of reminds me of this whole Gnostic idea because isn't this world supposed to be an abortion or or something like that?
Isn't that part of the whole >> It depends on it depends on which like which sect you're talking about, but in many of them that's exactly what it is.
This is like a this is a uh >> like it's not necessarily like a fallen they don't >> prison planet.
>> Yes. Exact. Yeah. It's a prison planet.
Yeah, exactly. It's a uh it's a >> matrix.
>> It's a cosmic joke basically. Right.
>> Yeah. It's a cosmic joke, right? Is someone It's a bad It's a bad memory of a town and the memories fading fast. You know, on their tongue, >> dream of a remnant of a town.
>> It's like it's it's corrosive. It's like licking a battery, you know? So, >> so thinking about his work from that perspective, it actually makes a lot more sense. And so the question is, what do you find meaning in? And it sounds like in his interviews and stuff, he's all about just the experience >> and the feeling of it >> and not necessarily anything else.
>> The the the ride is the it's like it's like it's like the friends we made along the way, man. It's like that kind of thing but like to the really cringiest sort of extent that's part of the again the underlying sort of it's baked into the cake of that worldview right where it's like the experience the this is the ride this is this is the the the Bill Hicks point it's just a ride man you just have to experience it's the highs and the lows you just have to experience but and like where you end up doesn't really even matter because it's like well it's what you did along the way that matters and it's like Okay, fine. You know, but eventually the the ride will end and like where do you go from there? And that's sort of the problem with this worldview that you know, it's like it it when you really take that >> that's with nihilism, but but it's it's a nihilism, but it's also it is baked into the cake of this pantheistic sort of uh uh uh frame of the world. Like if you really think like oh like okay whether it's time as a flat circle or whether an eternal return or it's like you know we're all manifesting what when you take that into account it's like everything like you know everything becomes permitted because there is no up and down you know and what ends up happening is is like you you you equate the good with the bad and damn bro I completely forgot what I was going to the point I was making with this anyway so someone else I'm sorry about that my bad but you know you you yeah you you uh you I guess that's the thing is like it's it can't it inherently can't be true because it's like it it it doesn't take into account actual good and evil.
It doesn't take in account good and bad and the final the final you know the what will happen when the dust settles and there is nothing left and the world is transformed you know.
>> Yeah.
You know, a lot of what um David Lynch's films make me realize is the truth about myself, like we've been talking about how you can kind of be an observer of your own life and be disconnected in a way.
>> And that's not a good place to be in.
Like you want to be holistic and you have to find Christ to make yourself whole. And so that's my my final question to you guys. And thank you guys so much for hopping on. Um, is it good to watch David Lynch's films? Um, or is it something that maybe not I know I started watching his stuff when I was a teenager and it always stuck with me.
Especially that hobo that comes out from the wall in college. [laughter] Best scene of the movie and it >> I'll never forget it. It just freaked me out and um yeah, it just terrorized me and everything else has about his films have really terrorized me. So, do you think people should watch these films or do you think they should take extra caution in doing so? I I know Jason is a big like Lynch fan. I know Bla is not so much. So, why don't you guys go around and give me your your conclusive thoughts on David Lynch and do you recommend him?
Yeah. So for me, for me, my only statement on it is for mature audiences only. Like you have, you know, if if you're >> if you're immature, you're going to watch these things and they're going to get in you and they're going to do something that you don't understand what's what it's doing. Um, you know, uh, I becau there I I look at Lynch as just very honest. Like I, you know, and I get it. Like we all want to put on a good face and we we want to draw attention to the good and the beautiful. We want to ignore the the the the nasty, you know, and and that's that there's virtue in that, right? There is. But it's also not true, right? It's not, you know, I mean, every one of us has experienced good, the bad, the ugly, and you know, all of it. And it's all there. And so, like, if if you want to sort of project, and I don't mean this derogatorily because I actually think uh infantileism is sort of a virtue in a way. Uh like if you want to project this infantile view of the world that it's all hunky dory, it's good, and oh, that's bad. just dis dismiss it outright. Don't even give it a thought. Whatever. You know, I I think I think if you're mature, if you're if you're uh honest, um you know, you can, you know, see you can you can gain a lot of wisdom and insight and uh not even wisdom or insight, but just, you know, have a very thoughtprovoking contemplative session watching these pieces of art because like I said, I think art is a contemplative object. you know, uh you you contemplate this piece before you. What does it tell me about me? What does it tell me about the guy who made it? What does it tell me about the people in it? Or, you know, uh and all there's value to be mined out of all of that, you know, but there could also be traps or misleadings or or nasty painful things that might trigger things or hit, you know. But again, you got to sort of take a meta position and be like, okay, well, why did it make me feel that way? Uh you know, why why was I so disgusted by that? or why was I so offended by it? Like, oh, it's because I'm a pearl clutching, you know, prude.
No, it's because there's something in you that that touched and you didn't like it and and so there can be there can be sort of a self-reflection that happens based on those things. Like that's why I think it's it's good. And and for me, I relate I relate to a lot of the characters like the the character studies in Lynch's films are incredible.
I mean he's he's just showing the raw truth of this these people that you know not a lot of people encounter in their real lives you know maybe some of us have encountered Frank Booth before but not everybody you know and so for the person who's never even conjured the idea of a Frank Booth they're going to be like this is a monster there's nothing to gain from this you know but but for some of us who you maybe have our own Frank Booth inside us or we've met Frank Booth or maybe maybe you were even friends with a Frank Booth Uh, you know, I think there's there's just an honest examination of the mysteries of life and the and you know, it's just as beautiful as it is ugly.
It's just as bright as it is dark, you know.
>> Yeah, I go ahead.
>> Let me respond to that because I'm going to hop off right after this. And thank you, Melo, for having me on here.
>> Yeah, I like what Jason had to say and uh, you know, especially about um, experience and and discernment. The f I think one reason that I don't like David Lynch that much is because the first time I saw a David Lynch film was when I was like five years old. When did uh when did Dune his Dune come out? 1984.
>> 84. Yeah.
>> Yeah. Yeah. So, I would have seen it when I was like five on the movie channel by accident at my grandparents house and it was on in the middle of the night and it was like one of the scenes where they got like hooks in the skin and there like there's goop goop vomit and all this stuff and I just didn't I just it was so horrible, you know, to me it's just it's still like this this psychic hole in my heart thinking about that movie. Um but I do think that you know one thing that's happening now in general is that especially in terms of literature is that uh people and in education you know people are are trying to find meaning in identity and things that appeal to their personal experience. And it's the wrong it's the opposite way to go uh than than what we should be doing um to find things that are edifying and beautiful because great literature and great movies exist because they have ar you know archetypes appeal to all people all characters. We find things in characters that are different from who we are but we still relate to aspects of them. So, I think that, you know, one reason I have trouble with David Lynch is because I find like I find trouble with with any characters who seem human at all. They all seem like totems uh in some sort of dream world. It's not all of them. I think people should watch these movies, especially for I mean, they're recognized as great films. Moleholland Drive was I think Mhalland Drive was was number one on the list of of uh 21st century films for the New York Times.
That's something that's a recognized thing. They put that out. I wouldn't put it there but but people do like the film and they or they find it a valuable film. They're great for film making technique. I mean Lynch was a master filmmaker in that sense. He makes films like moving paintings and I think that there there are aspects of them that are very valuable. Um but we shouldn't watch movies because they are like what we like. It's like what we should like. We we find things that we should like. We read books because they are books that we should understand or should should like. So, so anyway, thanks guys. Thanks for having me on. You guys are the experts on of course on David Lynch and Maddie. Maddie of course um because I covered >> some David Lynch with him and then Jethro. We did our five hour >> uh Twin Peaks Firew Walk with me stream of like a few years ago now. Um so, uh yeah, thanks thanks everybody.
Appreciate you.
>> Thank you for hopping on.
>> Okay, Maddie, your turn. [laughter] if you're still there.
If not, let's hear from Flood Logos.
>> Yeah, sure. Um, the real quick, the film making thing that BLA said was what uh kind of originally got me into David Lynch. I was in uh film school and uh really into cinematography and directing and all that kind of stuff. Um, but uh I I agree with what Jason said. Um, and I think that any any kind of media that you consume um can affect you uh if you aren't if you don't have discernment.
And um so I I don't think that someone shouldn't uh watch a movie uh just because of that.
That's it.
>> Thank you, Blas. Maddie, are you there?
>> Yes. Um, yeah. I I keep having to switch audio inputs cuz like the audio will drop out and I'll have to go into the settings and change it and there's like three to choose from and I have to keep going through the three until I can find one that's working. So, um, but yeah.
Uh, anyway, um, yeah, I mean I think that uh I think everybody's points so far have been really good on on this question. I think it's a really good question. Um, but yeah, I mean I think from a from a filmm standpoint, you know, Lynch was a a master filmmaker.
You know, he he and uh Robert Rodriguez are like right up there at the top for me, you know, as as far as my favorite favorite filmmakers go. And I think that I think, you know, [laughter] I think it depends somewhat on if people, you know, I I generally try not to tell people what they should or shouldn't do with their lives. But I think from I guess if if you can if you can handle it would be the way to to put it because these are a lot of his work. I mean, one of his works that doesn't get talked about very rarely is one called The Straight Story.
>> And that one is a that's like a family film, you know, it's a very uh that's a that's a good one. And like I said, it rarely gets mentioned among >> his work, but um outside of the Straight Story and there was another short-lived show he had. I I haven't seen it, but I I think it's pretty obscure. I don't think you can even find it anywhere. I don't think that one was all that dark, but you know, a lot of his stuff is really dark. And you know, Bla mentioned that uh you know, he and I had had uh covered some of his work, covered we did Blue Velvet and Lost Highway um on on Bla's channel. And you know th those those are two films I hadn't seen them for a while and then I rewatched them when uh we we did that analysis and I I felt very unsettled after watching them and you know Twin Peaks and and Twin Peaks Firew walk with me you know I've seen movies as an adult and that I you know kind of found unsettling or unnerving or you know kind of uh you know maybe a little uneasy but those and I will admit this I don't care those are the only things that I've seen as an adult that I've like genuinely been freaked out by I'm like this is like genuinely scary like that scene um like that first scene where Bob appears uh it's like this is like actually genuinely terrifying and then that you know that that scene in a lost highway at the party where the um was it Robert Blake's character comes up and he like calls you know Bill Pullman calls his house and it's like that's genuinely unsettling and so I I think that if you can if you can handle that kind of thing and maybe in in moderation um but you even though as as much as I like David Lynch's movies I found that I don't watch them as much as I used to and I'm you know I'm I'm not claiming to be you know [laughter] like, you know, super spiritual or or that, oh, you know, I'm I'm on this lofty level of spirituality. But I've I've found that, you know, as I as I really have made an effort to, you know, grow grow in the faith and and, you know, take it more and more seriously, um, is that I've sort of just lost the taste for a lot of, you know, movies I used to watch and a lot of music I used to listen to that there's things that I I just I don't have an interest in it anymore. And I I don't have an interest to watch Lynch's films as often as I as I maybe would have before because you know that that even though you know I heard somewhere that and I don't know if this is true or not intuitively just it it seems true is that your your brain even though you may be conscious you're like I'm watching a movie but your brain can't tell the difference between what you're seeing being something that's real and something that's not. And so, you know, when when you're seeing these kinds of of things that, you know, Lynch puts in his movie on some level, as I understand it, it is real, at least in the way your sort of brain is um is interpreting it. So, anyway, all that to say that uh yeah, I think it would just depend on on who it is. I think people if you know if you haven't watched these these films or these shows before that you know you you should kind of know what you're you're getting into and I also think if it's one of those things that you know if you start watching it you're like this is making me uneasy it's unsettling I don't like this is like spiritually bad for me you know whatever it may be I think it you know turn it off don't watch it I think that's totally fine you know just because you know other people are talking about these things watch them you know not everything isn't for everyone uh Um, so anyway, not to sound like I'm giving a cop out of an answer, but I just I think it it just depends on uh on the individual. And so all that to say, you know, Melo, thank you so much for having me on. I always always enjoyed being on here. Uh really appreciated the insight from everybody. Blood Logos, I think this is the first time we've been on a stream together, but uh you know, really um really enjoyed your insights on that and you know, always uh always great to talk to everybody else on here. So um yeah, great great to hear. Thank you all.
>> Thank you, Maddie. And how have you done any partying words for us?
>> Yeah. Um, well, so first of all, thank you, Mel always for having me back.
Appreciate it. Jason's always a pleasure. Blood Logos, um, it's uh I don't I didn't even know who you were before this, but I'm glad that uh we had the chance to collaborate together because uh you had some really good stuff to say. So, thank you, my friend.
And uh Maddie, um you know, you all right?
my boy did. Um, so but like but Maddie, I don't know if you remember when we did the AI stream last year, if you remember um one of the things that we were talking about like um about how like um like AI art and stuff like that. And one of the points that I made was sort of like the overarching point that I made about that. Mel, you were on the stream with us actually like it was the three of us doing this and I one of the points that I made was simply the fact that like you know one of the things where I feel like you know AI art won't necessarily go anywhere like in the same sense as like regular art was is because the soul of the person that makes the art is imprinted on the art itself. And when something that is fundamentally soulless makes it, you eventually will realize it. It doesn't matter how photorealistic it is, there is no if there's no soul into it, then you won't actually have it. You know, I'm thinking about Twin Peaks now and I'm thinking about like, you know, there's so one of the things that I've quoted multiple times throughout this is um True Detective the first season with McConna and everything and that's in some sense that's darker, you know, than Twin Peaks is. The one thing is that like like how you said Maddie like how you are like you don't always necessarily have the you don't have the same desire to sort of go after this sort of thing like you did many years ago and I sort of feel the exact same way but there's something like like a True Detective season one. I do have that desire to keep watching it.
But the and I think there's because there's a fundamental difference in the orientation of the works themselves, right? And it goes back to the fact of like the soul of the person is imprinted in the work, right? And not only is it the soul of the person, but it's the soul of the thing that's driving the person. And for, you know, I will say this, I will tell you this folks, I think that um for for better or for worse, right?
you know, no matter how dark True Detective season one gets, that is the depiction of a person becoming a Christian because Russ at the end of that is someone who is finding he's actually, you know, dealing with Christ.
That is why that show actually has the impact that it does because that's the state that father Sarapimo, St. Sarah Rose talked about that like, you know, this is the atheist is the person who's actually grappling with God and is actually trying to find God and that's exactly who Russ Cole is. But the difference between that and twin peaks is that twin peaks again is a is a depiction of an incantation. It is the depiction of a person who isn't becoming the play thing of the of the other side of the demonic fundamentally, you know, and so I'm not going to say anything other than what you guys already said, which is that you have to you have to really have an understanding about how sensitive you are. And if there's even a question of an iota in your mind about it, then I would say don't watch it. I think probably the only thing that's probably, you know, worth it in for any person is like the first second season of Twin Peaks and then that's it because I think everything else really is just as is uh I think everything else is like it's too it's too loaded. I think it's way too loaded and um if you are sensitive to this stuff, you probably shouldn't. Um, you know, it's like what we were talking about with the we came from electricity um in the in the convenience store with Rob Ager's point about the the screen and stuff like that. You know, the soul of the person is not the only thing that's imprinted in that. It is the spirit that they are embodying. It is the spirit that they're letting into the world. And if it is a demonic spirit, you will be imprinted with that. Right?
Okay. You know, there was some truth to what N just said about staring into the abyss. It will gaze into you if you let it. Okay? And the black screen that we're all looking at right now is itself an abyss. And so the thing that's beyond that screen, the thing that's coming into it right now, if that is something that is demonic, the demonic will gaze into you. If it's something that's of God, then you will have that imbued into you or at least you will move closer to it in some sense hopefully, you know. And so keep that in mind. It's not worth the gamble if you're very sensitive to that stuff and you don't know what you're walking into. You have to proceed with caution. That's what I That's what I would say.
>> Melo, what uh how would you how would you answer what what's uh what's your answer to that question?
>> Yeah. Who? Me?
>> You. You.
>> Yeah. What would you say to that question?
>> I mean, I I I don't know. I mean, when I saw these films, I was very young, so I I wouldn't say that it messed me up, but it did wake me up. Kind of like Jeffrey.
I see Jeffrey in the closet as like a little kid, like looking in on the reality of his parents or something, you know, like the dark reality. So, it's traumatizing. So, I don't know. I'm not going to tell anyone what to do, what to watch. Um, I think everyone kind of agreed that you have to have discernment. Um, you have to be strong enough to watch these films. Um, I think someone said it's hard to tell if Lynch is a genius or an idiot. And I think he's obviously a genius. Um, but I can see why people are just so turned off by his works. And um, but one thing for sure is that he's very original. And if that's what you like in life, you want to see something original, you want to see something unique, you want to see something like raw, watch a David Lynch film. Um, there's so many films out there that are just garbage because it's like a a replication of a replication of a replication. You're not going to get that from Lynch. So, um, and I I was reading an article and someone said that Theo Bong about Norm McDonald when he passed said that it's like losing a book that there's no copy to. And that's exactly what you know the passing of David Lynch was.
>> And um so anyway, just watch it just for that sake. Um just for the art.
>> There's a there's a fine line between being an idiot and being a a true genius, you know, people on the edge.
Like there's it's like the horseshoe theory. It's like they're actually the people close to each other. the people on two the two edges basically those are the people that are the closest to each other it's like one's the idiot one's the the genius and it's like there is in some sense like you're I think I think you can there there's a reason to believe that you can be both I think you know >> yes absolutely he's a fringe artist and he brings the fringe to the floor you know >> I think somebody was saying like um a lynchian character or like side character is someone you'd on, you know, the subway at like 3:00 a.m. or something. You know, these people are out there and [laughter] >> he >> Yeah.
>> You know, he characterizes them so perfectly and um yeah, so just for for interest, for novelty, um if that's the kind of thing you're into, you know, watch David Lynch film. But uh other than that, if you're sensitive and you know, you're like me when I was watching that freaking Michael Roupert Vice documentary, you know, stay away from it. So, that's all I got to say. Thank you, Maddie, for asking though.
>> Well, you guys, this was this was fun.
It got really nerdy for me because I haven't seen Twin Peaks in ages, so I have nothing to say about that. But, um, it was still really fun. You guys are awesome. I hope we could do it again.
Let me know if you have any ideas for something we could do in the future. I love bouncing off ideas on, you know, books, films. I think it's a great uh thing to kind of, you know, hone in on and just talk about. So, thank you guys.
so much and thank you everyone in the chat for sticking around and yeah, have a good day. Bye-bye.
>> Thanks, M.
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