What People Get Wrong About Narcissists! With Dr. Peter Salerno

追加: 2026-05-06

[00:00:00]I think people say it just because it makes them feel Some people it makes them feel better to think oh, the narcissist just hates themselves.

[00:00:07]They're full of self-loathing or they're just overcompensating for insecurity.

[00:00:11]And for some people I think it makes them feel better about the situation. But I don't know how accurate it is. I don't think I think like our friend Dr. George Simon says sometimes they're just now they they really do believe that they're all that. And in fact they're shameless, right? They're not just compensating or have all this toxic shame inside of them. I was like no, shameless can be more accurate.

[00:00:40]It's a very interesting thing to me and I know why it's I know why it took place, but it's very interesting to me how when it comes to like um when it comes to pro-social behavior um the way somebody feels on the inside is the way they behave.

[00:01:06]And then and then there's this interesting thing that I think can be true in some cases, but we've we've created this collective idea that whenever there's anti-social behavior it's always that the person wants to do the opposite of what they're doing.

[00:01:20]They feel opposite of what they're doing inside. But when it's pro-social they're consistent with what they want to do.

[00:01:27]That's a that's a [clears throat] overly simplified ridiculous way to understand human nature.

[00:01:33]Um it's silly to think that whenever someone misbehaves they implicitly want to do the opposite of what they did because they're in pain, they can't, so they do the bad thing instead. And it's unconscious. It's so silly even as I'm hearing myself use it out, but I believed it one time because I that's how I felt.

[00:01:55]>> And I didn't think it was terribly ridiculous. I thought I could find a way to make it fit in most situations.

[00:02:02]And what if you do that enough especially as a clinician, you start to know this okay, this is Because you see some people reacting in ways where there's nothing you can do uh except acknowledge the discrepancy in the theory.

[00:02:18]You know.

[00:02:20]I think it just it presumes that everyone's the same from the start. Like all we're all just the same. And if I was doing this, I would just be overcompensating for something. But it doesn't take into account No, there's just different people from the start. They are different whether they're neurodivergent or have the impairments in the pro parts of the brain responsible for empathy.

[00:02:43]Whatever it is. Whatever it is, there's different starting points. Correct. And people don't understand that. They think it has to be no, we're all like this and any deviation means they're trying to get back to the way I am. Right. And it's just no. Like they just have different And it's like you've said before, not everything's about just connection or staying safe. It's like no, some things evolutionarily speaking are about no, passing your genes down through the generation, collecting gaining resources and that's not all about staying safe or connection.

[00:03:21]There's there's more selfish motives than that.

[00:03:24]There's also selfish motives um like not consciously, but randomly and sort of uh just living processes, there's um you know variation and um different systems are motivated to do different things in the body that also contribute to personality. Like we're not like it's not all emotional safety. There's other safety that matters and um it's not true that everybody is born equipped with the same um exact system that interprets sensory input in in the same way. Like for example, um some people have hyper reactivity emotionally and some people have hypo reactivity emotionally.

[00:04:20]Um And that's really going to inform fear and that's going to inform anxiety. It's going to inform all kinds of things. So and it's not related to the relationships they have. Um I think people would be really impressed with um Kevin Mitchell's work on this type of stuff, the the understanding of intrinsic developmental variation. How much how many possibilities can occur before like from the moment of conception before the external environment even gets its hands on people. I think it'll be fascinating for people to see how much variation is in that related to our our psychology.

[00:04:55]Um And that doesn't necessarily have to include adversity in that process.

[00:05:01]Um But I think the idea that we're born differently is not very it's just not very popular. It's not even thought about very often.

[00:05:11]And I wonder why that is. Why is there why are people so uncomfortable with the fact that people have different starting points?

[00:05:20]I think it's just less control. I think it the more variables we can't control, the more like we feel helpless or fearful that we can't like you know, dictate a certain outcome or there's not room for improvement. Um I don't really believe that though. I mean we're not talking about determinism, we're talking about probability and we're talking about difference and variation. Um So I don't think the discussion needs to move towards this like doomsday stuff.

[00:05:48]But um you know, even people I'll just say this, I work with a lot of people who say, "Hey, just right off the bat I'm going to tell you I'm not leaving my situation."

[00:05:59]And I'm like, "Okay, fine. How can I help?"

[00:06:02]And on honestly like the people that I help um create a new language to relate to this operating system. Um even though the problems don't necessarily go away cuz the person hasn't changed, their their ability to like navigate it and not get caught in the drama every time like diminishes enough that it's it's more tolerable.

[00:06:29]I'm talking about situations when there's not physical abuse. I'm talking about more just like the combativeness and the nitpicking and devaluing and blame externalizing. Um They have even said though, "Knowing that it's a different operating system even though I'm not leaving it and relating to it as if it's really different than mine has helped tremendously with my own sanity and cognitive dissonance. Um So even that's evidence that you don't necessarily you know, have to like escape every situation. I I would recommend I I don't think it's a way to live personally. I think it's a very unfulfilling way to live to have to like learn a new language of disorder in order to function optimally in a relationship. That's silly, but people do I understand why people not all people can leave.

[00:07:17]Um but my point is when they treat it like it is different rather than it's like the same and it might have just been like a different upbringing. When they treat it like it's a really different system, they they experience a lot more relief.

[00:07:34]Yeah, it's helped me. I mean I think the biggest thing is accepting what you're dealing with. And that's the hardest part for a lot of people, right? They want to treat them like they're a normal person. But when it's someone that's really a narcissist, I'm not talking about just an immaturity. It's No, when they're really a narcissist, you're going to drive yourself crazy if you're trying to treat them like a regular person. They are not a regular person. They're going to twist and distort what you say. They're going to move the goalpost. They're not going to validate your perception of reality.

[00:08:04]It's just It's just not going to work.

[00:08:06]No. And I would I would actually encourage people to a lot of times the the emphasis is how much can they change? Should I hold out for them to change? Um is there something I'm missing?

[00:08:19]Um is this going to affect, you know, future generations of my family? I think another a really just kind of pragmatic question to ask yourself in these situations is am I compatible with a narcissistic trait profile? Like if I could create a like a in appropriately and realistic um ideal relationship for myself, would it involve the interactive patterns and traits of the person I'm currently with?

[00:08:48]So like oftentimes it's useful to just look at it as a compatibility issue.

[00:08:52]How compatible and how much do you have in common with an exploitative person lacking empathy who will not take accountability and doesn't feel like they have to. How much in common do you have with that person? Is it fun to share your time with them? I think it's miserable.

[00:09:06]It's consistently constantly competitive. It's petty. It's trivial.

[00:09:12]It's circular. It's um you know, repetitive. It's stressful. It just doesn't uh you know amount to much when you look at it from that perspective. It's not worth It's not really worth fighting for that much.

[00:09:30]Um I mean I wouldn't like it. I wouldn't like the the lack of collaboration, the devaluing, the antagonism.

[00:09:38]The twisting and distorting. I mean that's a good way to drive yourself crazy. I mean they're driving you crazy, but again, a lot of what we talk about here is to make people aware that okay, this is what's going on here in your life if you're dealing with someone like this.

[00:09:54]What's the best thing to do?

[00:09:56]To to walk away I would generally say and then try to get into some kind of trauma therapy, EMDR or brain spotting or fill in the blank with whatever, right? Yeah, and and I think a lot what I've noticed a lot that's tremendously helpful for a lot of people is reality testing in like a group format with other people who've been through it where you you're assured you don't have you can bypass the conversations that typically occur with people where they say, "Well, you know, maybe it's just a misunderstanding."

[00:10:26]Well, they've always been nice to me, so I don't really understand what the big deal is or well, if it's so bad, just leave or like those things are so debilitating to hear when you're already down and out. Um so, group support with people who've been through it and interestingly enough, no matter what no matter what the upbringing is of the the maladaptive person that's being, you know, discussed in in these groups, the pattern emerges and converges with every time. I mean, these are pattern strategic ways of going through life, this this this um personality. It's not random or determined by you know, risk and environment.