Why You’re Burnt Out All The Time | Psychotherapist Exposes everything!

Added: 2026-05-14

[00:00:00]The new cocktails and takeaways dates are out. In addition to coming to London and Dublin, which you already know about, those are my cities. We have added New York. We have added Washington DC and we have added Houston, Texas.

[00:00:19]Mommy is coming to Hammer. US of Bombla A. Stand the up. Mommy is coming to America. If you are in New York, if you are in Washington DC, if you are in Houston, I will see you guys in September.

[00:00:34]September is the time. It's my birthday month. Libra Virgo month. Stand up. I am so excited. What is good my good people?

[00:00:42]Happy happy Wednesday and happy mental health month guys. You know, I have been talking about mental health and well-being this whole year and of course within our community. It is such a conversation that always always occurs and we're always trying to work on it, always trying to grow. But I thought this week I would love to bring an expert in to educate us, to teach us, and to debunk some of the myths that we have around this topic. Guys, I have a psychotherapist in the building. She is a mental health coach and well-being connoisseur.

[00:01:16]I'm very, very honored to have her today to sit down and talk to us. It is the one and only Vanessa Puffy.

[00:01:23]How are you?

[00:01:24]>> I am all blessed. I'm grateful.

[00:01:27]>> Grateful is the word.

[00:01:28]>> Yes.

[00:01:28]>> I'm so happy to have you here.

[00:01:30]>> Thank you so much for having me.

[00:01:32]>> First of all, I've been on a journey trying to understand therapy and there's different types of therapy. You are a psychotherapist.

[00:01:38]>> What does that mean and entail?

[00:01:40]>> Okay. So, we're going to go a little bit deeper. I am a cognitive behavioral psychotherapist, right?

[00:01:46]>> Cockets. Cockets. So psychotherapy is a big term and it's what I'll describe as an umbrella term. So there's lots of different types of psychotherapy. So what I'm going to do is speak a little bit more about the one that I do which is cognitive behavioral psychotherapy.

[00:02:02]So it's based on idea that the way that we think about things and the things that we do have a big impact on the way that we feel. So the main thing about it is really understanding the context behind the behaviors that you're doing.

[00:02:16]maybe the way that you think about things, maybe the way that you feel. And as well as that is about understanding patterns. So throughout life, we might have patterns of behavior that we notice come up. And sometimes it might come up in ways that you might not even notice.

[00:02:32]So what we really want to do is get into that, really understand what some of those patterns are. But then we don't just stop there. We're also looking at what are some of the practical things that you can do to help make changes towards the goals that you want to achieve. So, as an example, maybe if someone's experiencing anxiety and they've noticed that this anxiety has been stopping them from reaching their goals or being the person that they actually want to be. We're looking at, okay, how can we actually help you to remove some of those psychological barriers? What are those psychological barriers? What is getting in the way?

[00:03:07]And let's implement that. Let's put things in place so that you can reach your goals.

[00:03:11]>> And how do you start that journey wanting to become a therapist? How how did that become a a passion for you?

[00:03:18]>> Oo, okay. Do you know what's so funny?

[00:03:21]>> Mhm.

[00:03:21]>> When I was younger, I actually wanted to be an actor.

[00:03:24]>> Okay. Yeah.

[00:03:26]>> I I was quite interested in performing arts. So whilst I was in secondary school, I was also going to drama school as well. Um so did that for a bit. But then you know growing up in a Ghanaian household >> yes >> the pressure the pressure the pressure to follow a more academic route. So I actually quit drama school and I thought you know what um I don't want to do medicine that these people are forcing me to do. So the closest that I would go is psychology. So I studied um I did psychology A level and then went on to do my psychology undergrad degree um and that really opened up an avenue of really understanding the human mind and behavior. So there was that aspect of things but do you know what I find so interesting about life is that sometimes um things will happen that position you in a way towards your calling or towards the things that you're meant to do. Mhm.

[00:04:27]>> So what happened for me around that time is um I was also experiencing chest pains and I was experiencing chest pains to the extent where I genuinely believed that I was going to die.

[00:04:42]>> Wow.

[00:04:43]>> I thought that there was something wrong with my heart. So for a long time I actually believed that there was something wrong with my heart. Um and I remember there was one time where my mom asked me to go and buy kink. So I'm Ghanaian. We love some kink. um went to the the shop to go and buy it. I'm coming out and I experience these really really sharp chest pains. My heart is beating really fast. My stomach is hurting me. My body feels tense. My breathing. I'm literally hyperventilating. I'm thinking, "Ah, is this my time to go?" So in that moment, um I literally sat on the pavement. Sat on the pavement. Um you know how this UK is, no one is even minding you. Imagine >> they'll even walk on your heads.

[00:05:25]So, um I I called up emergency services and explained what was happening and um the person that I spoke to, she explain what symptoms I'm experiencing with my thoughts racing with all of these things happening. And she then told me that what I was experiencing could be a panic attack. And I was like, "Oh, panic attack. What does that actually mean?"

[00:05:51]cuz at that point I didn't really have much knowledge around mental health around psychology as much. So the what I was interpreting as physical health condition where I'm having these catastrophic thoughts of I'm going to die was panic symptoms. And so that really unlocked a whole new world for me um just around the idea that that mind body connection and the importance of mental health education as well. So from that experience later on in life I thought okay you know what let me do an event to raise awareness around mental health. At that point I was um I'll say I was still in my infancy stage in the mental health space but with the little that I know you know I thought okay let me share what I know with the world. Um so I organized an event and lo and behold there's 150 people that turn up to the event. I'm like oh okay >> this is something that people actually need. There's an appetite for this. Um and I remember after the event it was meant to be a one-off but after um people asking me Vanessa when's the next one? I'm like oh meant to do another one okay let's do it. So it was through that experience where people are asking me questions people asking me to come and speak at their workplace people ask me to come and talk at the events etc where I thought okay do you know what I actually need to study more and train to be a therapist so that I can give people the actual practical tools and techniques so I'm not just on vibes so I actually have the tangible knowledge. So four degrees later, we are here and yeah, I've been working in the mental health space for now over 10 years.

[00:07:32]>> Wow.

[00:07:32]>> Congratulations. That's amazing. And as you are telling me your story, it reminds me of me. I >> used to have panic attacks. Well, I still have panic attacks, but I used to have anxiety attacks, and I didn't know where it would come from. It would be like this. I didn't understand it. And to be honest, I thought it was spiritual. Ah, >> so mine was the opposite. I thought it was I thought >> God was trying to tell me something or something was happening around in the atmosphere. Um, and it would happen just randomly. Like I could be walking home and I would have this like >> it's intense >> intense like something bad is about to happen. And I'd call my mom and I'd be like, "Mom, are you okay? Are you okay?"

[00:08:18]And it wasn't until I was like maybe 21, 22 that I started to to understand things like anxiety and started to think understand things like panic attacks and and studying it in it in its mental capacity. Why do you think there's such a lack of knowledge within the black community about these things?

[00:08:40]>> Yeah. Do you know what? I think it could be down to so many different factors.

[00:08:44]There's so many contributing factors to that, but I think one key thing is around um perhaps not having the mental health literacy to be able to explain the symptoms that you're experiencing.

[00:08:58]So, of course, there might be different narratives that are attached to the experiences that we go through, i.e. you are experiencing your panic attacks and the narrative that you attached to it was spiritual. I was experiencing my panic attacks, but the narrative that I attached to it was more physical. Where does that come from? Perhaps it may be narratives that may have been passed down on to us about what's actually going. So I think there's there's something about the narratives that we learn from the people around us through our caregivers through even school through our community those type of experiences. Um and then also like I mentioned that perhaps maybe not having that mental health literacy to actually describe what is actually going on. So someone may be I don't know experiencing stomach pains and what they have learned is um let me take I don't know paracetamol and they'll be taking paracetamol every day every week even for years that's what they're taking but the issue is not even with the stomach pain that they're experiencing. The issue is more to do with anxiety. So I think it's it's it's things like that.

[00:10:00]Um and also I think there's also there's um what I'll describe as medical mistrust as well in the sense where because we have had so many challenging experiences with mainstream mental health services it means that people are less likely to actually engage in them.

[00:10:22]So when people actually need the support you know even with the work that I do I find that people are coming when things are too late things are people are coming when um okay let me not say when things are too late but when things are very severe >> um of course because of the nature of life that we're living we have to keep on going there's this sense of in our community we need to keep on going we need to be quote unquote resilient as well so I think there's those pressures that may add to putting mental health at the bottom of the to-do list when from my perspective it's something that needs to be at the top of the to-do list.

[00:11:03]>> So for anyone watching why should we go to therapy?

[00:11:09]>> Okay, good question. Why should we go to therapy?

[00:11:12]Um, okay. What I would say is that I'm going to caveat that by saying perhaps not everyone is ready for therapy.

[00:11:22]>> Okay.

[00:11:23]>> Yeah. And I'm saying that because typically people think therapy is this place where um you know when you see in movies you see what's it lie down or sit down in a couch and then you're just offloading issues and challenges that are happening. And yes, that type of therapy exists.

[00:11:44]But if I'm speaking more about the specific therapy that I do, for me it's about helping people to understand the narratives of their life. So one thing I always ask people is what is your story and what is the narrative that you are living your life by? Is that a narrative that you have given to yourself or is that a narrative that has been subscribed to you? And that question is because typically if people are not self-aware, they might be living their lives based on a narrative that society has prescribed to them or their parents have subscribed to them or their partner has subscribed to them as well. So essentially therapy is about being able to really understand what is the story that you are living your life by. Okay. So, I started therapy recently and um >> I think for me I don't have a therapist that is um that challenges my thinking.

[00:12:45]>> Ah okay.

[00:12:46]>> I have a therapist who's more of a listener. And the reason why I ended up with this therapist is simply because I had a very traumatic experience. Um, and I realized that I need >> I have this thing that I do where I am a very vocal person and I'm I like to get things off my chest, >> but unfortunately I tend to like overshare >> and then after have anxiety the fact that I've told someone all my business now and is this person going to tell and is this person going to judge me? M >> um so I just I'm not going to lie, I went on psychology today and just literally just like picked the first person that would hear me that could hear me out >> and I just kind of like unpacked.

[00:13:28]>> But one thing that I I could appreciate um with this therapist is that >> for the first time ever, I told everything that I wanted to say. And there was a peace in that. Like there was a peace after. It wasn't like I told him my business and I got off the friend. I'm like, "Oh my god, did I talk too much? Why did you say that?" Now he knows all my business.

[00:13:51]>> Um, but it was just a it was just a piece in a sense where I can just release and >> yeah, that was it. I know that that's gone. And then he has those secrets, but interestingly enough, he's a white guy.

[00:14:05]>> He's a white man.

[00:14:07]>> Shout out to him. Um, >> would you say that women of color should lean more towards black therapists or is it again dependent on the style of therapy you're going for or Christian therapist?

[00:14:20]Because there's literally there's specialist people have Christian therapists, there's Islamic therapists, there's black therapists.

[00:14:26]>> Should your therapist >> be in alignment to kind of like who you are >> and what you look like? Do >> you know what? Again, it depends. It depends on what you are looking for and it depends on what you want to really get out of therapy. So even just as you said what you have found helpful is having that space to offload and that's what you need. So that's okay. Do you know what I mean? Whereas there might be someone who is looking for maybe a little bit of stretching in their perspective or maybe you know back to what I was saying about understanding the patterns of life and things like that. So again, that is also okay, being able to actually >> get what you need out of therapy.

[00:15:08]>> Um, some people do find relatability does help so that they don't have to overexlain in the session. So for example, I've got clients that I work with, they will happily off their wig in the session and just relax. Do you know what I mean? And there's no questions asked because >> off my wig with my therapist, he will be confused.

[00:15:29]>> Exactly. So it's it's literally things like that. So some people want that comfortability to be able to be themselves, right? Um whereas on the other end, some people might think that you know what, maybe she can relate to me a little bit too much and so I want a different perspective. And so in that way, maybe you want to go for someone who's different. Um, at the same time, I know what you what you mentioned around maybe having a therapist with a religious background. Some people actually like to incorporate scripture or incorporate um, you know, their religious books into therapy. So, um, even with myself, I am a Christian and there's some clients that I work with who I work with um, who even pray in the session, right? And I think again it's that sense of comfortability. So what I would say is whatever you are looking for in a therapist, I'm sure there is a therapist out there who will be able to provide.

[00:16:35]>> It's CNT baby.

[00:16:40]>> What are some of the myths about therapy that you want to debunk?

[00:16:45]>> Myths about therapy that therapy is just talking. Yeah. So for example, someone might have a conversation with their friend and say that oh you know I don't need to go to therapy because I I I speak to my friends and that itself is therapy. I think what I really want to highlight behind that is that yes the conversation itself can be therapeutic >> but it is not therapy. Right? There's a difference between something being therapeutic and something being therapy.

[00:17:23]Yes, it might feel good to actually have that conversation and relatability with your friends. Um, but the processes that are happening in therapy, um, people are, I guess therapists are trained to read that subtext, like I mentioned earlier on, to really read your body language to really see that, okay, you're saying this, but your body is doing something different. Tell me what is happening there. Do you know what I mean? So therapy is not just let's talk, it's also um work as well. And to add to that, I think there is a sense of therapy being a flowery journey. Um you know, it's something that people might see as roses and fairies and all that good stuff, but therapy can get messy.

[00:18:14]Therapy can get ugly sometimes, especially when you are >> really processing really difficult things that have happened in your life.

[00:18:22]Um, >> you might, you know, sometimes even feel a little bit worse when you're talking about these things, but it's almost like, you know, when you're detoxing, um, things get worse before they get better. So yeah, again, therapy is not always going to be the flowers and fairies and and roses and petals. It's yeah, especially if you're going through something that needs to be processed, it might be a challenging experience. And the last thing that I want to say in terms of myths that I would like to debunk is that um you don't just go to therapy when something is wrong.

[00:19:04]>> Yeah. Therapy is something that you can use as a preventative measure. It's something that you can use to again understand yourself. So then you can accelerate in life or understand um a bit more about how you operate and use that data to put things in place for your life to again be your favorite version of yourself.

[00:19:29]>> I want to take it back. Um we were speaking earlier about uh you know your childhood and the journey for you the journey that you had to get here.

[00:19:39]>> Um what are the most common childhood issues that you see in adults showing up?

[00:19:45]>> Oh this is a heavy one. Yeah. Um common childhood issues. Do you know as you've said that it's quite interesting because something that I've noticed when working with clients in therapy is that when we're exploring pre previous experiences and maybe what they do now and the way that they think about things now, the way that they behave now, most of the time we can trace it back to something that has happened during childhood.

[00:20:18]>> Okay?

[00:20:19]>> Right? It could range from things that have happened in school and how they were treated in school, how people approach them in school. I think that's a common one.

[00:20:31]>> Yeah.

[00:20:32]>> Is a very very common one. Yeah. You're saying Yeah. a lot. What's What's coming up for you, girl?

[00:20:37]>> What's coming up for me is that when I was younger, I moved around a lot. So, I went to many different schools. I went to about 11 schools.

[00:20:45]>> So, I was always the new girl. And because I didn't like to be alone, >> Mhm.

[00:20:50]>> I had this thing of >> having to perform to make friends. So, having to really put myself out there, really try to be likable.

[00:21:00]>> Um, so that I can make friends cuz usually I'd be coming in in the middle of semester, everyone's already got their friends, friendship groups. Um, so I feel like even in my adult years, I really struggled with that need to be liked >> and not understanding if people didn't like me and then trying my best to try and fix that.

[00:21:24]>> Have I Yeah.

[00:21:25]>> So that's something that's something that even in my adult year that affects me.

[00:21:30]>> Okay. Yeah. So what I'm hearing from that is there is what we might describe as a rule for living. So everyone has rules in which they live their life by and that rule of life that you may have had would be I need to perform in order to make friends or I need to perform in order for people to like me. Right? So it's really thinking about with this particular role maybe it might have served a purpose previously and it served a purpose yes because you were moving about and so there might have been a sense of um survival out of that and I say that because your brain and your body goes into um survival when it feels at threat. And so that defense mechanism that comes up in order to survive is okay now I need to fit in or now I need to perform in able to actually make friends. So it did serve a purpose previously and that's why you may have continuously done it but it's thinking about is this serving you right now >> now. Yeah.

[00:22:39]>> Yeah. I do have anxiety around the idea that >> someone doesn't like me.

[00:22:47]>> It gives it gives me anxiety.

[00:22:49]>> What's the worst thing that you think could happen if someone doesn't like you?

[00:22:52]>> That they think all these horrible things about me, >> such as >> um just anything horrible.

[00:23:03]>> Give me an example.

[00:23:05]>> I'm trying to think of an example. Okay, for example.

[00:23:08]>> Mhm. I think I Okay, let me say this. I go through I go between the need to be liked but being afraid to be close to people.

[00:23:19]>> So, I like being I I I really love people and I want to be close to them and I want to be friends with them, but I'm also afraid to be close to people because I'm scared of being hurt. So it's very you can see it in my person in my in my behavior where one minute I might be like really really like strong on someone and then maybe I end up interpreting a behavior maybe they might be busy that day but I've interpreted as that person doesn't like me >> and I've found myself a lot of time I respond to my thought >> about that per about that situation. So if somebody if I feel like somebody hasn't picked up their phone because they don't like me and I've done something to them, I go into panic and it's either I overcompensate >> and lean harder into that person or I'm like, "Well, you." Like I don't Well, you're going to hurt me now, so I'm going.

[00:24:13]>> So I swing between those two mental >> states. Yeah. Yeah. So that's something that I would frame as a pushpull mechanism. So what that essentially means is that I actually do desire closeness and I want to experience that love and I want to be able to feel that love. But what has happened is I've had experiences that have not actually supported me in that way. Therefore, what I'm doing to protect myself from being hurt is to push myself away just in case you hurt me again.

[00:24:54]Yeah, it's always just the case. Yeah, that's me. I'm very push and pull. I'm ve my my brains are constantly conflicting. I'm constantly like one on one end of the scale. And then >> sometimes I need to reclaim that power cuz maybe I feel like, oh, I like that person a lot. And maybe now they know I like them. They're taking a piss of it.

[00:25:14]So I'm like, no, I need to pull myself back in and get yourself together. Like, you know, I'm I'm very much like that.

[00:25:21]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And that's that that conflict between the different parts of us, right? And that tension that it causes is it's it's a lot. It's it's heavy. Yeah. And sometimes you can think, oh, I feel like I'm actually fighting myself here. And so again, it's thinking about back to that question. Is this something that is actually serving me right now? And if it's not, then what can I actually do to change that? So it might be the case. I guess this is something that might take a bit of time because it's a belief that has been there. And I think that's another thing that I want to emphasize when it comes to therapy. This is not like a magic wand thing that I'm going to, you know, wave my magic wand and then everything is going to be okay after I tell you something once. It doesn't work like that or after I've suggested something to you once. Once you've learned something new, you have your old patterns of behavior and then you have this new behavior that you're that you've just learned because that old pattern of behavior and that old way of thinking would have been there for some time.

[00:26:27]>> Mh.

[00:26:28]>> It means that we need to chip away at it. So it might again take some time for your nervous system to actually become accustomed to the fact that okay do you know what I can actually be close to someone without having to feel this sense of um defensiveness >> ending doomed and defensiveness is the word.

[00:26:48]>> Yeah. Um, I want to move on to a conversation that I see a lot of people having online. And I think a lot of people, >> um, a lot of people lean to therapy or a lot of people have had their mental health challenged during relationships, relationship and dating, especially >> especially when we're talking about women. I would even say men as well. I would say dating and relationships, >> it's not easy.

[00:27:14]>> Is it's not easy. Um, so from a from a >> psychotherapy standpoint, >> okay, >> um, how do you know the difference between heartbreak and actual depression?

[00:27:29]>> Oo, that's a good question. Okay, so what I would say to that is um, depress with depression, we have so as psychotherapists, I guess in the psychology world, there's a criteria for depression. How valid that criteria is is very debatable. But there's a actual criteria that we have which if someone experiences those symptoms for a prolonged period of time then we would actually classify that as clinical depression.

[00:28:01]>> Okay.

[00:28:01]>> So if we're looking at those symptoms it may be low mood it may be difficulty with appetite um difficulty with sleeping whether that is oversleeping under sleeping. um there may be lack of motivation to actually do things that you usually have wanted to do and according to that criteria so it's for anyone who's interested anyway it's called the DSM5 so the diagnostic statistical manual of mental health disorders um it suggests that someone should someone would experience those symptoms for two or more weeks continuously >> oh wow >> for that then to be clinical depression depression. Okay.

[00:28:44]>> So, it's not necessarily the moods because we do go through those moods. We do have low days. We do have down days.

[00:28:50]But it's the length of time in which those moods >> stay.

[00:28:54]>> Yes. Okay. According to that diagnostic system, but you're you the way you're saying that is that you don't agree with that.

[00:29:01]>> It's not that I don't agree with that. I think for me, I work in a flexible way.

[00:29:05]Okay. So if someone has experienced um let's say those symptoms that is it's highlighting for one and a half weeks and not two weeks or more it doesn't mean that I'm going to be clearcut and say okay this person may not be experiencing those symptoms of depression. Do you know what I mean? So I think I'm I'm always open to flexibility around that. Um but back to your question about the difference between heartbreak and depression.

[00:29:28]Clinical depression as you can hear is something that um you know it can be diagnosed and it's for a prol prolonged period of time.

[00:29:36]>> Heartbreak we know that the source of that is of course because of a relationship or it might even be a friendship heartbreak actually or a situationship heartbreak. It could be >> many forms of heartbreak. Right? So we know that it's come from somewhere. But also to caveat that by saying that if you experience heartbreak that may and can lead to depression.

[00:30:02]>> Agreed.

[00:30:03]>> Yeah. So it's not to say one or the other. Of course heartbreak is tough.

[00:30:08]>> Tough. I was on a big I went on a big depression when I was 18 years old.

[00:30:14]>> I was dating this boy that I was very much in love with. Like to be honest at 18 like I mean >> that was that was like my first ever proper experience of love.

[00:30:25]>> Um and at the same time I had a best friend who had introduced me to him.

[00:30:32]>> So he then went to cheat and then I found out that that she sucked his penis.

[00:30:37]>> So it was like a double homicide. It was a double heartbreak >> and I literally went Britney Spears shaved my head off bald.

[00:30:48]>> Yeah.

[00:30:49]>> Um with a scissors.

[00:30:51]>> You shaved your head bald with a scissors.

[00:30:54]>> Yes.

[00:30:54]>> That's serious, you know.

[00:30:56]>> Yeah. Don't ask. Don't ask me that.

[00:30:57]>> It's not even funny.

[00:30:58]>> It's not funny. I mean I mean because I was 18. It's like something I've healed from and moved on from and I've loved again. But at that time it was dire and I literally turned off my social media >> and I and it took me a whole year.

[00:31:14]>> It took me a whole year to emotionally get over him because for that year I'd thought about him every single day.

[00:31:19]>> I thought about him every single day for a year.

[00:31:22]>> Yeah.

[00:31:22]>> Um and but then it took me a little bit longer to forgive my friend.

[00:31:27]>> So after the guy stopped occupying my mind, it was then the betrayal of my friend that it then took a longer time to forgive. Like every time I thought about her, I thought you bloody witch.

[00:31:37]But I think for me the part of forgiveness like I always say to people sometimes forgiveness is not about the other person, it's about yourself.

[00:31:45]>> And I think because I had so much hate in my heart towards her, >> it was creating this thing inside me that was very dark and it was not allowing me to >> have give opportunity for better friendships. M >> um so I think it took me a while to forgive her, but once I finished that stage, now we can laugh about it cuz it's like, yeah, we I I talk about it all the time. I've mentioned it a couple times a couple times on the podcast. Um but yeah, the double the the heart friendship heartbreak and >> it's grieving.

[00:32:14]>> Yeah, it's grieving. Yeah.

[00:32:15]>> Yeah. Yeah. You're you're grieving and you are grieving the relationship and you're also grieving your friendship as well. So that's that's where it becomes that double homicide. So what are some of the biggest psychological red flags that people ignore in dating?

[00:32:33]>> Oh, >> or relationships, should I say? I would say dating relationships.

[00:32:36]>> Yeah, psychological red flags.

[00:32:40]>> I think it would depend. It all depends.

[00:32:42]I think when it comes to this topic of red flags.

[00:32:46]>> So what about Okay, let me let me let me talk from your experience. Okay. From your experience with your clients, what are some of the red flags that >> your clients have missed in a relationship that maybe they've spoken about it to you during the session and you're like, hm. But you've mentally registered it and then later down the line it was like >> I knew that was a problem.

[00:33:08]>> That's an interesting one and it's it's it's interesting. The reason why I started off by saying it depends is because of course what may be a red flag for me might not necessarily be a red flag for someone else. True.

[00:33:20]>> But in terms of things that may come up, general themes that may come up would be a really simple one around communication.

[00:33:30]>> Oh >> yes, that's a really really simple one >> in the sense where let's say for instance um and this is just a generic example. This is I'm just saying this is not based on any client or anything like that. I'm just making up an example in my head to illustrate the point. So let's say it's the case where you yourself, you know that communication is something that is important for you.

[00:33:55]>> Yeah.

[00:33:56]>> Right. You know that you need to actually have those words of affirmation and in order for you to actually feel that sense of safety in the relationship, it means that the communication needs to be there, right?

[00:34:11]>> Yeah.

[00:34:12]>> So that's something that you know, but then you've met someone, right? And in that process of you're smiling because I'm locked in.

[00:34:21]In that process of meeting someone, they then come to you and say, "Okay, do you know what? I want to arrange a date with you." And you're like, "Okay, cool.

[00:34:30]Let's do it. Let's go." The day comes, let's say it's a Saturday, right? The Saturday has come, but then they're like, "Oh, do you know what? I can't do Saturday anymore. Could you do next week's Saturday?"

[00:34:41]>> It's very stupid.

[00:34:46]and you get that message. Literally, you're mid doing your makeup and you get that message, but then you're like, "Oh, do you know what? Maybe he's just busy.

[00:34:57]That's why he didn't um you know, message me."

[00:35:00]>> Oh, no.

[00:35:02]>> Already you've got an understanding of that person's communication style. And already you know that it's not matching up with what you want. And so sometimes we can be over empathetic. I think that's the language I want to use. We can be really op over over empathetic towards people. When if you listen to people long enough, people start to reveal themselves. And when you stick with someone long enough, they again start to reveal themselves. So that person not communicating with you properly at the beginning without any sort of explanation behind that, what that is signaling to me is that they may not necessarily be as interested. And so we need to take things as it is, not as we perceive it to be, not as we want it to be. You take it as it is. in that situation because I know a lot of girls and I get quite a lot of dilemas about this. Okay. In that situation >> from a professional standpoint, >> what do you feel like the a woman like that is mentally dealing with or what issues do you feel like she has or that could >> that could I guess allow her to maybe overcompensate for somebody else's behavior or maybe not see those signs? M >> a typical thing that may come up in those circumstances may be low self-esteem.

[00:36:22]>> Oh, talk about it.

[00:36:27]>> Yeah. And low self-esteem. It can show up in people in so many different ways, but I think a common thing that people who may have um let's say symptoms of low self-esteem may experience is this idea of overcompensation, right? And that overcompensation comes from a core belief or can come from a core belief of I am not good enough.

[00:36:53]>> Mh.

[00:36:53]>> So if you really really believe that you are not good enough and that is something that is the root of just your belief system. It means that everything that you do may be in line with that belief that you're holding on to of I'm not good enough. And this might not necessarily be a conscious thing that you're doing. It might be a subconscious thing as in holding on to this particular belief. So because of that, that is where there may be what we describe as compensatory strategies.

[00:37:24]There's things that you're doing to compensate. So maybe someone that has that belief of I'm not good enough. They may um feel like okay, I need to um overgive to people. I need to be that giver or I need to be more understanding to people or I need to stay in this situation longer or I need to just give him time or all of all of these different things. But what you're forgetting there is you are not putting across your needs. Typically people who have low self-esteem may have difficulty with actually expressing their own needs and what they want. And that could be down to so many different reasons. maybe they haven't had an opportunity um to actually express their needs or tell people what they want. Maybe that maybe they've learned that their needs are not important. And so as a result of that, again, how does this show up in relationships? They put themselves at the back burner. Everyone else is first.

[00:38:18]Everyone else comes before me >> because deep down I believe that I'm not good enough.

[00:38:25]>> Wow. And within I would assume that a lot of your clients are women of color.

[00:38:31]>> A lot of them. Majority.

[00:38:34]>> How big of an issue is low self-esteem within our community?

[00:38:37]>> It's big. Oh, it's big. It's huge. Yeah.

[00:38:41]It's it's big. And that is something that I am so passionate about helping women, black women to develop that self-esteem. And again, it comes back to the way that people view themselves. If you're viewing yourself from an inferior standpoint, whether it's something that you're doing consciously or subconsciously, how you operate in this life, how you move in the world is going to show through.

[00:39:11]>> Y >> and so again, it's about really um understanding where has that come from, debunking those those patterns and learning something new. changing that that behavior as well. And that's something that yeah, I would focus on in therapy really supporting women to build their self-esteem. And it takes time. It takes time cuz low self-esteem has again come from somewhere. It's come from experience. It's been is it's almost like um this belief that is rock solid.

[00:39:42]>> Yeah.

[00:39:42]>> And so we have to chip away at it.

[00:39:45]>> I definitely want to get into the practicals of how you deal with that.

[00:39:50]Um, but we're going to we're going to leave that for Patreon. Um, but what I I do want to share is I want to share something that I said last week because I feel like >> my self-esteem is something that has been through the rockers. M >> and I think as a black woman, I said this last week, I think as a black woman, our confidence and our self-esteem, I think I interpret it very different and we should interpret it very different to any other race because our self-esteem and our self-esteem and confidence like our armor >> because every day I feel like there is no other person that is challenged, their self-esteem is challenged like a black woman. Um, I was making an example of a viral thing that I had last week where I said something about Klay Thompson and I opened my phone and first thing in the morning I saw myself and then somebody quote tweeted it and was like, "Yeah, this is why black women are the most stupid women on earth."

[00:40:44]>> And I thought to myself, imagine all the women that wake up or every woman of color that woke up this morning to see that. So from as a black woman, from when you wake up, >> your self-esteem is being challenged. So it is imperative for you to be strong in your belief in who you are more than anyone else even to the point that it's conceited I would say because of how much the world attacks us and how much the world wants to chip away at that in every capacity.

[00:41:12]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And at the end of the day, if you do not believe in who you are, and if you do not know who you are, you'll subscribe to what other people tell you you are.

[00:41:23]>> Oh, >> so if the world is telling us that we are not good enough as black women or you know we are this, we are that etc. If we do not have that esteem, that self-esteem for ourselves, then we will just be going with it.

[00:41:44]>> Yeah, agreed. 100% agreed. Um, going back to relationships, um, there's always these buzzwords online, attachment styles, anxious attachment styles, avoidant attachment styles. Um, what would you say, which attachment style would you say is is more common?

[00:41:58]>> And, um, I guess can we can we navigate the difference between the two?

[00:42:04]>> Common? That's it's quite difficult to actually answer that question. Um because as much as there are attachment styles, some people might think, okay, maybe I'm the anxious avoidant attachment style or I'm the um secure attachment style. When we look at the way that these things work, sometimes you're not even just one of those attachment styles. You might be a mixture of those different attachment styles. Or there might be some relationships that you have. So for instance with family you might have a I don't know a secure attachment style but then with um relationships romantic relationships there's a more of an anxious attachment style there as well.

[00:42:41]So I think there's a lot more dynamic between it than people actually think or realize.

[00:42:47]>> What would you say I am like just from this conversation? Read me. What would you what kind of what attachment style do you feel like I could >> I could fit into? From what you've spoken to me, I think your dominant one may potentially be anxious avoidant.

[00:43:03]Have you come across that one before? Is that relatable?

[00:43:06]>> Yeah.

[00:43:07]>> Yeah. Okay. Right.

[00:43:10]>> I I I bow between I bend between anxious attached and anxious avoidant.

[00:43:15]>> Avoidant. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Because that pushpull mechanism that we spoke about earlier on Yeah. Yeah. That's very anxious avoidant. Yeah.

[00:43:26]And um >> how do you feel about that by the way?

[00:43:29]>> The fact that I'm >> that we we've named it right now as anxious avoidant. It's something that you knew already, but actually us saying it out loud.

[00:43:36]>> Cuz I thought I was anxious attached.

[00:43:38]>> Mhm.

[00:43:38]>> But I think having a conversation with that push and pull the way you described it, >> I can see why I I I do.

[00:43:46]It's like I I want love and I want connection, but I'm also very afraid of it. And I'm also willing to sever those relationships and friendships to save my own self.

[00:43:55]>> Yeah. So even within the anxious avoidant that's where so let's say if we say anxious is the attachment within that we have anxious avoidant as one of those attachments. So you're on the right path of understanding. Anyway >> guys I've learned something about myself today.

[00:44:12]>> Don't forget to subscribe. Subscribe.

[00:44:15]>> Subscribe. Subscribe.

[00:44:17]>> Don't forget to subscribe. Subscribe here. Subscribe. Subscribe.

[00:44:22]>> You as a psychotherapist, what are the most common mental health challenges that you see >> with your clients or potential clients?

[00:44:30]>> Okay. Um, so what I see quite commonly is burnout.

[00:44:37]>> Oh, okay.

[00:44:38]>> Yeah, burnout is a big one. So I also do a lot of work with founders, entrepreneurs, influencers who are doing quite well in their fields.

[00:44:50]And of course that that pressure um that comes with being self-employed, that comes with being in the limelight, that comes with people who you don't know commenting on your life. Yeah, >> it's a lot.

[00:45:06]>> So I spoke about it this year. Um, I had non-epileptic seizures. I was having seizures >> from the stress >> the stress >> of life.

[00:45:18]>> And you know what's so interesting? I think >> um it's only in the last 6 months that I've realized the severity of stress and mental health and what it could do to you.

[00:45:32]>> Yeah.

[00:45:32]>> The there are physical manifestations of stress. I was disassociating.

[00:45:40]>> I felt like the world wasn't real because my body was in constant >> the cortisol was cortisol every day. It was high.

[00:45:50]>> It felt like life wasn't real. I can't explain it, but it felt like I was looking at life, >> but there was it it was fake.

[00:45:57]>> And then I ended up going hospital for >> um non-epiletic seizures, which was uh very very scary. I spoke about on the show >> and it got to the point where for the first time ever cuz I'm I feel like I have a very high pain tolerance and high stress tolerance >> but I remember one day I was in my house and my body told me to stop like as in usually I've never had my body speak to me.

[00:46:25]>> O >> my body told me stop.

[00:46:28]>> Yes. Yeah.

[00:46:29]>> And I literally for the first time cuz I don't be just stopping. I don't just stop. I have to like have things in line and you know block film.

[00:46:37]>> I literally just took a I just off. I just took a flight to Nigeria and disappeared.

[00:46:42]>> So I think this year was the first time I really realized that no like stress >> it will kill you.

[00:46:50]>> It can kill you. Yeah guys, stress can kill you.

[00:46:53]>> What are the signs of burnout?

[00:46:56]Okay. So, signs of burnout I would say um feeling unsettled, feeling unrested, feeling overwhelmed. Um again, these things will look and be varying for different people. Um might be difficulties with sleeping, difficulties with eating.

[00:47:19]>> Um and as you said, it can show up physically as well. to those physical symptoms that we tend to really really underestimate. Um what else? It could be down to even just struggling with organizing things as well. Um but also to preface that by saying that within feeling burnout, you might also have people who are high functioning, right?

[00:47:43]So high functioning meaning that they're experiencing burnout, but when you see them, you will never know. me.

[00:47:52]Me >> as if it's you, comment below. If it's you, comment below. It's me.

[00:47:57]>> I am a high like it literally had like I had to be on the ground >> and I really worry about my high functioning babes. I really worry because and the reason why I worry is because you're doing a lot of suppressing, mommy.

[00:48:15]>> You're suppress. You're pushing it down.

[00:48:16]So, imagine you have like um let's say a bucket, a big bucket that's full of water and you've got a beach ball and you're pushing this beach ball. You're trying to push it, push it, push it, push it underneath the water. If you push it hard enough, what's going to do?

[00:48:28]>> It'll explode.

[00:48:30]>> It will either explode or will come up >> and most of the time that come up and that explosion is going to come in ways that you do not want it to come up.

[00:48:38]>> Yeah. And that's why I had to start therapy obviously was all about the situation.

[00:48:42]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

[00:48:43]>> Yeah. Yeah. So all that suppression is it's not healthy and as you said in your case of course it led to physical health um conditions and even sometimes with the clients that I have where I mentioned that they might have come where things have gone really left.

[00:49:02]Um you might also see things like rheumatoid arthritis. You might see fibromyalgia.

[00:49:08]You see chronic pain because of stress because of suppression. Because at the end of the day, stress and trauma gets stored in the body, right? And so if there's a constant overload of cortisol and there's a constant overload of stresses and you know your body is taking that on, it's not just an emotional thing. It's a physical thing.

[00:49:32]>> Yeah.

[00:49:32]>> That we need to take seriously because it will kill you.

[00:49:38]>> Yeah. It's so interesting because I feel like this year >> is when I really understood that saying that your body is a vessel >> because whilst your body can hold like whilst like a vessel can hold so much water like a vessel like I think of it like a vase a vessel could hold like >> liters and liters and containers of water >> but it's also fragile >> and one crack in the system from the outside destroys the whole thing.

[00:50:11]>> Yeah. Yeah.

[00:50:12]>> And that's when I realized Yeah. like if I don't look after myself, if I don't look after myself, my my my physical being, >> my eternal being, >> that could flatline like that like guys, I'm being serious.

[00:50:27]>> Flatline.

[00:50:28]>> Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And it's almost like, do you know back to the the bucket, right? So if we imagine that all of us have a stress bucket and each time you experience stress, it pulls into the stress bucket. So let's say you've woken up one day and even your alarm going off, that's added a stressor into your stress bucket. And this stress bucket is increasing up to 10%. Right? And then you you know you you come out your house, you're you're going to work or whatever and you miss the train. That's another stressor into the stress bucket.

[00:51:00]So that might go up from 10% to 30%. And then something else happens again, 50%, and it just adds up, adds up, adds up, adds up, adds up. Before you know it, your stress bucket is at 99.9%.

[00:51:11]And then it takes this small thing, someone accidentally steps on your foot, then >> Yeah.

[00:51:16]>> that stress bucket is overflowing. Yeah.

[00:51:19]>> And so we need to be doing things to pour out our stress bucket. We need to be doing things constantly. It needs to be not even just a thing that you do just when something bad happens. We need to make well-being and looking after ourselves a lifestyle. It needs to be part of your lifestyle. You need to be able to do things that help you to release that cortisol. Releasing that cortisol is going to be so fundamental.

[00:51:49]Guys, when you understand the way that the mind and the body works, I promise you, you'll move differently.

[00:51:56]you I need to >> differently.

[00:51:59]>> I need to know me some of that because even now I think I think for me >> um >> I think for me yeah I'm really trying to figure out the steps in which I can be proactive and I can work cuz I I I like to work um but also >> look after myself and not >> do too much. I mean my question is to you is that you you talk about well-being a lot. What what is well-being?

[00:52:28]>> So for me, my definition of well-being is looking at I was looking at in a holistic way. So we're looking at how we actually feel, the way that we think, >> the way that we are, and just the way that you approach life. So well-being for me is essentially how well you feel within yourself, right? And I like to use this analogy of the well-being bank account.

[00:52:56]>> Okay.

[00:52:57]>> Which I love. Um so just like everyone has a bank account, we also have a well-being bank account. And in that well-being bank account, you can top up money, you can withdraw money, you can make investments. Again, just like a regular bank account. And so when we look at our well-being in this way, it means that you might be at different stages. You might be in your overdraft, which is in the red, which is h I'm feeling burnt out. I'm feeling depleted.

[00:53:25]Yeah. You might be in the orange, which is you're just about balancing.

[00:53:28]>> And then or you might be in the green, which is at surplus, meaning that you're feeling topped up. So, in the case where, let's say, you've got a lot of work to do, maybe um you know, you're living this self-employed lifestyle, there's lots of things that you have on your to-do list. These may be things that you do have to face which is the realities of life but it may be depleting your well-being bank account.

[00:53:53]So a question that I usually ask or even just tell people to reflect on or suggest for people to reflect on is how much do you have in your well-being bank account?

[00:54:05]>> Yeah.

[00:54:05]>> So even if I was to ask you how much do you think you have in your wellbeing bank account? Do you think like you're in the the red, in the orange, or in the green? I would say that I'm I'm in the orange now.

[00:54:15]>> Okay.

[00:54:15]>> Um I'm in >> You're just about balancing.

[00:54:17]>> I'm just about balancing. I think I was I would say that I'm more red bending.

[00:54:21]>> Red B. Oh, red bending. Okay.

[00:54:22]>> I'm more red bending, but I'm in the orange.

[00:54:24]>> You're in the orange? Yeah.

[00:54:25]>> I'm in the orange. I have some questions. Um before we move over to Patreon, I have some questions that some of the bad boys and girls asked um when we put out the the shout that we have a special somebody coming. So, >> these are the questions. The first question we have is this is from Fatima.

[00:54:44]How can a black woman learn to receive softness, care, and support in relationships where they're always used to being on guard?

[00:54:53]>> Thank you for that question. That's is a relatable question for a lot of people.

[00:54:59]Um this sense of being on guard and >> um it's not a nice experience as well when you're feeling on guard all the time. Um, what I'm hearing from that question is, I've been through experiences that have caused me pain and so as a result of that, I don't want to feel that pain anymore.

[00:55:23]>> Yeah.

[00:55:24]>> And so I'm going to be I guess my natural defense mechanism is to push people away. So it comes back to what we were talking about with that pushpull mechanism going on. And so what I would encourage that person to really think about a bit more deeply is is this serving me right now? So again, same question. Is this something that is serving me right now? It they put that question forward which highlights that it's probably not something that is serving them right now. And so it's about being able to actually slowly but surely maybe in a supported way or if it's something that you're working on by yourself, introduce yourself to new experiences.

[00:56:10]>> Lovely.

[00:56:11]>> That then can almost shift that old pattern of thinking because of course right now your nervous system is like ah this is a lot. But what we want to do is teach your nervous system something new.

[00:56:23]And the way that you can teach your nervous system something new is by >> wait wait wait >> we can't give them to guys guys guys I really want to get into a deep dive and I really want to guys I'm honestly I'm running out of time at the moment so we have to move on to Patreon but I really really want to get into this for me how do I deal with stress how do I make how do I lower my cortisol levels how do I deal with trauma in the body um really really practical practical ways so guys if you want to move over to Patreon.

[00:56:53]We'll move on to Patreon. But guys, we have to go. We have to leave Vanessa.

[00:56:56]I'm I've got a short time. She's a very, very busy woman. But where do we find you on the internet? Thank you so much for coming, for teaching us, for blessing us. Where do we find you on the internet?

[00:57:06]>> So, you can find me. I am on Instagram.

[00:57:09]So, my name Vanessa Bi. So, that's B A N E S A B O A C H I Eore.

[00:57:16]Um, I am also on LinkedIn, so you can find me there with my name. Um, yeah.

[00:57:21]Yeah, give me >> I think you're the first person to shout out LinkedIn here.

[00:57:23]>> Oh, really?

[00:57:24]>> Yeah. We love you.

[00:57:25]>> Okay, >> guys. I love you, YouTube family. I love you so much. I'll be back next week with a um with another bad boy, another bad girl. Patreon. Patreon, guys. Move over to Patreon. There's more fun over there.

[00:57:36]Um link is in the description. I love you guys. Okay guys, I have been Vanessa Batch and I have had such an amazing time with Madame Joyce and make sure that you are back next week with another bad boy or another bad girl.

[00:57:50]>> Love you guys.